Sara Brooks On Branding Strategies Every Brand Needs To Survive, Grow, & Stay Relevant

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast
Episode: Sarah Brooks On Branding Strategies Every Brand Needs To Survive, Grow, & Stay Relevant
Release Date: March 13, 2025

Hosts Lauryn Bosstick and Michael Bosstick bring insightful conversations with industry leaders to help listeners enhance their personal and professional lives. In this episode, they sit down with Sarah Brooks, co-founder of Goldilocks—a brand consultancy specializing in consumer packaged goods (CPG). Sarah shares her extensive experience working with over 200 CPG brands, offering valuable insights into effective branding strategies.

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Introduction to Sarah Brooks and Goldilocks

Sarah Brooks introduces herself as the co-founder of Goldilocks, highlighting her background in PR and brand consultancy. She emphasizes the importance of brand strategy in helping businesses disrupt the status quo and achieve sustainable growth.

[00:16] Sarah Brooks: "Get ready for some major realness."

Effective Brand Positioning: The Halo Top Case Study

One of the key discussions revolves around effective brand positioning, illustrated by the success story of Halo Top. Michael delves into how Halo Top transformed its brand messaging to resonate better with consumers, leading to exponential growth.

[02:23] Michael Bosstick: "Halo Top was a super kind of like sleepy ice cream brand... they changed their messaging and experienced a 2,500% growth in one year."

Sarah adds that despite not being directly involved in Halo Top's strategies, the brand's shift in communication style—focusing on the desire to consume the entire product without overemphasizing its nutritional content—was pivotal.

[04:11] Sarah Brooks: "So the tweak in the messaging on the outside, the ice cream didn't change itself. It was just the tweak in the messaging to appeal to the consumer percent no one."

Common Branding Mistakes and How to Avoid Them

Michael and Sarah discuss prevalent mistakes brands make, particularly the pitfall of trying to appeal to everyone. They stress the importance of having a singular point of difference to avoid confusing consumers.

[04:30] Sarah Brooks: "Trying to be everything to everyone is such a pitfall that brands do."

[05:40] Michael Bosstick: "Brand strategy is you think about consumer demand, you think about competition, and you think about what you uniquely can offer."

Elements That Make Brands Win

The conversation shifts to what distinguishes successful brands. Clarity and community-building are highlighted as essential components, with examples like Graza and Fish Wife illustrating how unique positioning and engaging branding can set a brand apart in a crowded market.

[05:54] Michael Bosstick: "At the core, I think clarity. I think community."

Identifying and Emulating Unicorn Brands

Sarah and Michael explore what makes certain brands "unicorns," such as Apple, Patagonia, and Subaru. These brands have clearly defined missions, exceptional product experiences, and strong community ties, making them industry icons.

[07:29] Michael Bosstick: "If you look at like an Apple or you look at like a Patagonia, those brands, everyone knows what they stand for."

Advice for Aspiring Entrepreneurs and Brand Builders

Sarah offers practical advice for listeners looking to launch or elevate their brands. She emphasizes the importance of understanding the consumer deeply and starting with grassroots research, such as engaging directly with potential customers to gather insights.

[08:24] Michael Bosstick: "You need to have a strong case for why they should pay for a premium product, why they should buy your brand, not that brand."

[09:55] Sarah Brooks: "You can certainly start, like, very grassroots by just talking to your heavy users."

Building and Selling Brands: Michael’s Experience with Covet PR

Michael shares his journey with Covet PR, detailing how building strong relationships with brands like Suja and Epic Bar led to Covet's acquisition by Power Digital. He reflects on the lessons learned from both successes and failures, underscoring the value of adaptability and continuous learning in the branding landscape.

[12:39] Sarah Brooks: "What's the epiphany to finding it? And then to founding it."

[18:08] Michael Bosstick: "I love to build. I love the messy process in the beginning, figuring it out."

Strategic Brand Evolution and Acquisitions

The discussion delves into strategic decisions around growing a brand consultancy. Michael explains how aligning with Power Digital allowed Covet PR to scale effectively while maintaining its core values and mission.

[19:06] Michael Bosstick: "What was happening? I sold in 2020, and it was becoming increasingly obvious that I couldn't just be a PR firm."

Key Takeaways: Authenticity and Long-Term Focus

Throughout the episode, Sarah and Michael reiterate the importance of authenticity in brand building. They argue that genuine connections with consumers are far more sustainable than chasing fleeting viral trends. Building a strong foundation and staying true to the brand's mission ensures long-term relevance and success.

[38:05] Michael Bosstick: "If you are not authentic, like a consumer can sniff out bullshit so easily now."

[60:35] Sarah Brooks: "If you think you're just gonna throw something to the wall and think it sticks, that's just not the way it works."

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with reflections on the gradual and methodical nature of building successful brands. Sarah and Michael emphasize patience, continuous engagement with consumers, and staying focused on the brand's core values as critical components of lasting success.

[61:53] Sarah Brooks: "It takes a minute. Like, if you think you're just gonna throw something, something to the wall and think it sticks, that's just not the way it works."

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Notable Quotes:

• Sarah Brooks [00:16]: "Get ready for some major realness."
• Michael Bosstick [02:23]: "Halo Top was a super kind of like sleepy ice cream brand... they changed their messaging and experienced a 2,500% growth in one year."
• Sarah Brooks [04:30]: "Trying to be everything to everyone is such a pitfall that brands do."
• Michael Bosstick [07:29]: "If you look at like an Apple or you look at like a Patagonia, those brands, everyone knows what they stand for."
• Michael Bosstick [38:05]: "If you are not authentic, like a consumer can sniff out bullshit so easily now."
• Sarah Brooks [60:35]: "If you think you're just gonna throw something, something to the wall and think it sticks, that's just not the way it works."

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This episode provides a comprehensive guide to effective branding strategies, emphasizing the importance of authenticity, consumer understanding, and strategic positioning. Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur or an established brand seeking growth, Sarah Brooks' insights offer valuable lessons to help your brand survive, grow, and stay relevant in a competitive market.

Transcript

[Lauren Everts]

The following podcast is a Dear Media Production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire.

[Michael Bostick]

Fantastic.

[Lauren Everts]

And he's a serial entrepreneur, a very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostick are bringing you along for the ride.

[Sarah Brooks]

Get ready for some major realness.

[Lauren Everts]

Welcome to the Skinny Confidential. Him and her. Hello everybody. Welcome back to the Skinny Confidential him and her show. Today we're sitting down with Sarah Brooks. Sarah is the co founder of Goldilocks, a brand consultancy specializing in consumer packaged goods. Throughout her career, Sarah has worked with nearly 200 plus CPG brands ranging from pre revenue startups to post IPO giants, dedicating her expertise to founder led businesses looking to disrupt the status quo. Previously she co founded and led Covet pr, a powerhouse agency that quickly rose to become an industry leader before being acquired. In this episode, Sarah shares the valuable insights on effective brand positioning, the power of creative branding and consistency, meaningful consumer connections, leveraging marketing insights and innovation, and must know tips for aspiring entrepreneurs and creators. If you are looking to elevate your brand, create a brand, get your brand discovered, or just get your messaging honed in, this one's for you. This is for anyone that wants to learn how to build and stand out online. Enjoy. This is the Skinny Confidential. Him and her.

[Sarah Brooks]

Wow. I just got out of an incredible two and a half hour meeting with you and your team. You and Heather, we just did a full brand deep dive on everything branding.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah.

[Sarah Brooks]

And you did a deep dive into the Skinny Confidential and you guys did this gorgeous presentation about the consumer and testimonials and you know what the core mission is and it was absolutely mind blowing.

[Michael Bostick]

Thank you.

[Sarah Brooks]

It exceeded my expectations. Seriously.

[Michael Bostick]

Oh, that means a lot. I'm obsessed with, I'm obs. I've been curious my whole life and I am so obsessed with figuring out why a consumer will purchase one product over another product. I think it's like, it's like the, it's the most interesting kind of experiment I think in humanity is like you go to a shelf, you're at whole foods, there's 300 kombuchas. Why are they gonna pick one kombucha over the other? So that's what I get to do at this phase of my life is like understand what a brand can offer that is absolutely magical that no one else in the space can. And then how to kind of have that come to life.

[Sarah Brooks]

And tell us about the Halo study.

[Michael Bostick]

So at Goldilocks, we focus a lot on like figuring out that magical connection between a consumer and a brand and And Halo Top, we like to use this as an example. I always think like, how can I explain what I do to my mom who still thinks that when a product is on sale at Whole Food, she's like, good job. It's bogo, honey. I'm like, mom, I have nothing to do with that. But Halo Top was a super kind of like sleepy ice cream brand in like the mid, you know, 2015. It had a lot of claims on front. It had how many net carbs, how many calories per serving. And it was not doing great. And we had nothing to do with this work. But what happened was they went, oh, they kind of had this buzz, huge brand evolution where they really started to get in the mind of a consumer. And when a consumer is shopping the ice cream category, it's usually a celebration kid's birthday, they had a raise at work or they're like depressed and they're like, I just want to eat ice cream. And what, what the work unlocked was that people who are shopping ice cream, they want to just eat the whole damn pint. They don't want to have to think about, okay, there's, you know, seven net grams of carbs for that. So they simply took off the claims out front and said the whole thing of ice cream is 270 calories. Eat the whole pint. They didn't change what was inside, they changed what was outside and how to communicate that. And the business experienced a 2,500% growth in one year and just exploded. And I think that's such a powerful example of what the nuances of brand positioning can do. And you really get to know the consumer and you really get to know the category, how to unlock, like explore explosive growth, but just with a shift in positioning.

[Sarah Brooks]

And they sold for 400 million or they did.

[Michael Bostick]

They know I think they were doing close to 400 million in sales after that.

[Sarah Brooks]

So the tweak in the messaging on the outside, the ice cream didn't change itself. It was just the tweak in the messaging to appeal to the consumer percent no one.

[Michael Bostick]

And they became the best selling pint in America. And think about legacy players like Ben and Jerry's and Dryers and Breyers. Everyone else in the category was talking about calories per serving. And like no one wants to know about calories per serving when you eat ice cream. You just want to eat the whole thing. And so it was a, it was a brilliant move that I think really kind of crystallizes what effective brand strategy.

[Sarah Brooks]

Can do in 2025. What mistakes are people making in branding? And what would you advise people against who are listening, who want to start a brand?

[Michael Bostick]

I think trying to be everything to everyone is like such a, such a pitfall that brands do. There's, it's, it's, you know, 15 years ago was really hard to launch a consumer brand. People, people, it was like these, these big kind of, you know, incumbent players like the Kellogg's and the General Mills and the Mondelez, and they were the people launching brands. And then with like people learning how to use the Internet and, and influencer marketing, all these people started launching brands, which is great. It democratized the process. But people in order to kind of survive. And I'm not talking about fundraising, I'm not talking about any of that. You really have to figure out your singular point of difference. And if you're trying to be going back to Halo top, if you're trying shouting all these claims, it's really confusing for the consumer. They don't understand why you and not someone else. And so what we do is like really try to like dumb down in the most simplest terms, what you offer that no one else can offer and why you're doing it best. Like brand strategy is you think about consumer demand, you think about competition, and you think about what you uniquely can offer. And that kind of middle part is where all the magic happens.

[Lauren Everts]

What are, what are like the main things that brands that win have? Like, like, and maybe there's a lot of things, but like, what are like some of the. When you think about why a consumer would choose one thing over the other, like what, what makes those brands win?

[Michael Bostick]

At the core, I think clarity. I think community. I think, you know, I often get asked like, what brands are killing it these days. And like some brands that I love are like Graza, the olive oil brand. And they, they went to a category that was a commodity like olive oil. And they are, their messaging is not like we harvest, you know, olives from these, like, you know, ranches. Maybe there's not ranches in Italy, like fields in Italy. They just made it in a squeezable format like chef's use. And it gave people to have fun in the kitchen and they had really fun branding and they had a character that was a mascot. So again, for them it wasn't what was inside, it was like what was the white space fish Wife is another great example because it's tinned fish. Like if you think about tin fish and like caviar. No, it's such like a stodgy category and they brought fun to it. So it can be a mix of fun branding. It can be a mix of clear positioning. Going back to. I think what brands sometimes do that isn't, isn't good is it's so easy to get caught on the trend, like on the, the bandwagons of trends. We talked about this earlier. With the constant 24. 7 news cycle, so many things come out and people have shiny object syndrome. So they're like, oh, well, if we just did this and we just did that. But again, you're starting to kind of fragment what you, what you offer people. So I think it's. I. Some of what we always tell people is stay focused, you know, stay focused, stay consistent while also giving like 20% room fun.

[Sarah Brooks]

You at Goldilocks work with some of the biggest brands in the world. And before that you also worked with huge influencers. And we're going to get into that. What is the unicorn brand? When you see all these huge brands, where do you point and you look and you say that's a unicorn. And why?

[Michael Bostick]

It's a really good question. I think that there's brands that I think like, if you look at like an apple or you look at like a Patagonia, those brands, those like huge, huge brands, everyone knows what they stand for. The product experience, experience is exceptional. The way that they foster community is great. And I think those are like icons in the space. Even like Subaru, like Subaru sold love and they sold love through safety of a car. And all their commercials are about like taking care of family. And so I think it's these brands that like time and time again, no matter what they launch, there's an expectation in quality because they have just cemented who, what they offer that no one else can, that they do the best and they hit consumers over the head with that time and time and time again.

[Sarah Brooks]

If there's an audience member that's listening right now and they want to launch a brand today, how would you guide them? Say like your cousin texts you what is like your, the Sarah blueprint that you're giving them?

[Michael Bostick]

I think it's a, it's, it's becoming absolutely obsessed with the consumer. It is like you such a good answer. You cannot, you cannot, like, you don't have necessarily a right to launch a brand unless, you know, like, who's gonna buy it and why do they want to buy it. Especially, especially if you're going to try to charge more like with the rise and not right. But like with Amazon, with the commodification of everything. Like people can get almost anything, anytime, anywhere at just with their fingertips. So you have to have a strong case for like why they should pay for a premium product, why they should buy your brand, not that brand. And I think it's just, you know, it's a million things all at once. But I think it's going back a lot to simplicity. It's going back to the consumer and just being, knowing what makes them tip when they're shopping the category, what are they looking for, what are they trading in? What are the universal truths about the category? And so I think what's really powerful about that is like you don't need like a Bain or McKenzie, just go talk to people. You know, my Uber driver on the way here was a 41 year old from Russia and I was talking to him and I was like, so tell me what you do because I cannot not ask people questions. It's my most favorite thing to do. And he was saying, I really, really want to launch a sourdough bread brand. And I was like, oh, are you interested in sourdough? And we talked about this the whole way and he has this great idea for sourdough bread. And I was like, go, go to farmer's markets. Just start talking to people like before you're trying to sell it at sprouts, like go to where the people are at. And I think that is the most powerful thing you can do.

[Lauren Everts]

You know, so funny. Like even just like I'm hearing you say this and I'm thinking about just the way we work at tier media and it's like the same thing for people that want to create a content business. Everybody's always trying to figure out all the bells and the whistles and the money and all that. I'm like, just go and start speaking to an audience and put them. The rest of the stuff will kind of take care of itself.

[Michael Bostick]

It's so true.

[Lauren Everts]

Like all these, everyone's always like, how do you go viral? Or what's the marketing or what's the pr? Just focus on the person that's actually listening.

[Michael Bostick]

Oh my gosh. If I had a dollar for every time a brand called me, like I want to go viral. Like the brands that go viral did not intend to go viral. They went viral because they did not intend to go viral.

[Sarah Brooks]

That can also be a double edged sword going viral. People don't realize when you go to the moon, it's hard to come back down. I actually think it's more strategic to build a house of brick yeah.

[Lauren Everts]

Or even worse, like, if you're a new brand and you go viral and you don't have the inventory or the ability to set, like, then you're right. Then you've lost a huge opportunity.

[Michael Bostick]

100%. We've worked with a lot of brands that are on Shark Tank, and, like, when there's. And that's like, one example, I would say that's like a comp to going viral, but you have to have the operations behind it to sustain that, because the worst thing that can happen is you go viral and then you get pissed customers because they can't buy the product.

[Lauren Everts]

It's so funny. Like, coming up on almost a decade of doing this show, it's weird to even, like, think that we've been doing it this long, but we get asked all the time, like, what was the moment? And I always say, like, there's no moment. It's just been this, like, long trek. But I'm so grateful because now as we get access to. To different people with maybe deeper conversations. If we would have had that in the early days, we wouldn't have been prepared for it. We would have been.

[Sarah Brooks]

The moment was when you laid eyes on me on the playground. That was your moment.

[Lauren Everts]

That was my moment.

[Sarah Brooks]

That was your moment.

[Michael Bostick]

I think that is the exception.

[Lauren Everts]

You specifically. It was like, what was.

[Sarah Brooks]

No, that was your moment.

[Lauren Everts]

But you get what I'm saying is, like, we're all in such a rush to have this success, but there's something to be said about the build and the practice of building and getting prepared for when these moments actually happen.

[Michael Bostick]

Totally.

[Lauren Everts]

I think now there's so many. A lot of the recent conversations we've been in, if we would have done them in the early days by going viral, we would have been underprepared. We would have been way too nervous. We would have not had the plot. Like, there's just so many things. So I'm grateful now that it's taken time.

[Michael Bostick]

That, and I would also add grateful for all the things that didn't work. It's like, I've learned. And I mean, this sounds so trite in terms of talking about entrepreneurship, but I've learned so much more from, like, all the bombs and all the failures.

[Lauren Everts]

I also think that sometimes, you know, when people are trying to figure out what their brand is and what they're like, they change along the way. And so having a little bit more time to kind of really get clear about who you are and what you want to convey is important. So, like, having these all these Viral moments where then like the market's dictating what you need to do as a person.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah. And there's no flexibility to evolve and change.

[Sarah Brooks]

Talk to us about how you founded Covet. What was the epiphany to finding it? And then I also. To founding it. And then also talk to us about it getting acquired. Because that's pretty major that you did that at such a young age.

[Michael Bostick]

Oh, thank you. And it's funny, I think back to. I think it was 2017 when you came to Covet and you're like, this is what an influencer does. Because we both were living in San Diego at the time. I think going back to what makes something or someone successful, it's never like they're the world's best. It's perfect timing. It's like market conditions, if you will. And so when I had been doing pr, I started my career in television at E. News and mtv. I wanted to be a talk show host. So I was like, I'm just gonna, you know, work behind the scenes and figure out how TV shows are made.

[Sarah Brooks]

And what reality shows were you on, by the way?

[Lauren Everts]

Sarah, you're good on a mic. I could see you doing talk show.

[Michael Bostick]

Thank you.

[Sarah Brooks]

Thank you very much.

[Michael Bostick]

Thank you very much. I was on the really the cinematic masterpiece that was Room Raiders. I was given my own blacklight. It was very exciting to look for semen. You know, at the time I was so naive. I thought I was looking for like, not semen. But now I realize I was probably, probably looking for semen.

[Sarah Brooks]

Kind of fucked up that they give you a black light with no context.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah.

[Sarah Brooks]

Like, what if you don't. Like, how are you supposed to know you're looking for scenes?

[Michael Bostick]

I found dust with my black light. And I think that was anti climatic for the producers. I went through. I raided three rooms and that was fun. I was on Dismissed, which was like, do you remember that where two girls go on a date with the same.

[Lauren Everts]

Guy and then one then he says no to one of them?

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah. I was dismissed. I was too bubbly.

[Lauren Everts]

I don't think they can make that show these days.

[Michael Bostick]

I don't O. There's so many things when you go.

[Sarah Brooks]

Back to the wrong bet. He would be like, he'd be really happy.

[Michael Bostick]

Plane, wherever you are. You made the wrong bet.

[Sarah Brooks]

And then Wheel of Fortune.

[Michael Bostick]

Wheel of Fortune, where I should have watched Harry Potter the night before because the fictional. The category is fictional place. It was Hogart School of Witchcraft and Wizardry. If you did not watch Harry Potter, you Were just not knowing. But I won $7,000. I did lose my Ford Focus as I turned over the wedge and I got bankrupt. But I did all of this because I. I was just so curious. And I wanted to understand if I'm gonna go do something, I want to start, like, on how it's made versus trying to do it. So I started my career in PR in probably 2006 or 2007. I moved to New York. I wrote a book on dating, not published, because I said yes to anyone who asked me out on a date. Because I just was so curious, like, where are you from? What's your story? So, I mean, yeah, that's a whole other episode. So my goal was to move to New York to become a columnist like Carrie Bradshaw, Sex and the City, and just do that. And I'm so lucky with how naive I was because I just, like, one thing I don't have problem with is, like, I have, like, blinders on. And, like, I am not worried about feeling. I'm not worried about rejection. So I went to New York. That didn't happen. I did not get my own. I did not. I did not publish my book. And I kind of stumbled into pr and I did PR in New York, New York for a long time. And then I moved back to Southern California. And how to answer your question, I'm obsessed with consumer products because there's no personification. Like, unlike celebrities or talent, it's just sitting on a shelf. So I think it's like such a challenge, like how to make a product speak to you on shelf. And I. This was kind of when the wellness boom was happening. Like, you know, Cold Pressed Juice and Kombuchas. And there was no firm that was hyper focused on better for you Brands had the idea and started Covet.

[Sarah Brooks]

And you got Suja as a client.

[Lauren Everts]

No, no, no. I mean, now it's all connecting for me. But. But you're so right, because there was that moment in time when a lot of those businesses started emerging and they were like, new to, like, now everybody sees these. But there was nothing. We didn't have these options.

[Michael Bostick]

We didn't. It was all like, crunchy granola. It wasn't like, mainstream. And like, now you go to Erewhon and you pay like $40 for an assaible. And like, consumers are okay with that because they've been primed for 10 years to pay more for food. But back then, it was kind of an anomaly. There wasn't really anyone focused on that.

[Lauren Everts]

When San Diego was. I was wondering like, okay, New York, San Diego. But then, now that I think about it, like, it was a little hub for that health stuff.

[Michael Bostick]

Oh, totally.

[Sarah Brooks]

Was Suja, like, a huge client for you at the time, or was that something that you guys sort of built up together? What was that like?

[Michael Bostick]

So Suja at the time, and I know we're both friends with Annie, and Annie and her business partner at the time, Eric, were just delivering juice like he. On a skateboard.

[Sarah Brooks]

It's an amazing story.

[Michael Bostick]

She worked, you know, she worked in yo. At a yoga place. And they were delivering it. So it was. It was. It didn't even. Wasn't in real, like, I think, commercial packaging at that.

[Lauren Everts]

We had some of that early juice.

[Sarah Brooks]

Yeah, we're making it so good.

[Lauren Everts]

Weren't they making it out of the.

[Michael Bostick]

Kitchen at Enlighten Hospitality? Yeah, yeah. And so that. That was my first client that. I mean, they were. They were at that point, you know, when you think about revenue, I don't. Hundreds of dollars a month in revenue. I mean, they were a baby. And I took kind of the same approach I did for beauty brands in New York, and I applied it to a juice brand. And I was trying to get, like, beauty editors talking about juice when historically they were talking about mascara. And so that was a really, I think, a big. To kind of say, like, pay attention. Like, this isn't just a food. This is like a lifestyle brand. And I was very, very lucky. Sujo was my first client when I went on my own. And you always have to. Kind of the rule of thumb is you kind of have to. When you start a firm or an agency, like, you need one big marquee client. And I was super lucky that Suja took a chance on me, and that was kind of the beginning of it.

[Sarah Brooks]

What were the next sort of momentum with the clients? Who were the other clients that you started signing? And why do you think you. You were acquired? Like, what was that? Like, Unicorn?

[Michael Bostick]

Well, I think what was unique about us is. And it's the same thing what we do at Goldilocks, which is like, we're. We're revenue agnostic. So we work with brands like Epic Bar, which was, I think, based in Austin, and we took them through their acquisition with General Mills. But we worked. We started with them when they were really small, and, like, we. I just would fall in love with the founder and their mission and, like, didn't really care what they were paying. I was just like, could this be the next big thing? And then I think that loyalty went two ways. And so as the brands grew, we grew, and, like, you know, I took beyond meat through their ipo, which at that time was like, you know, everyone and their mother was talking about it. So we, you know, I think, though, like, my favorite brands are the earlier stage brands, the ones that are still trying to figure it out.

[Lauren Everts]

Sounds like you, like, really, like the build and the.

[Michael Bostick]

I love to build. I love to build. I love that, like, messy process in the beginning, figuring it out. I love it.

[Sarah Brooks]

And then explain how Power Digital, which is a marketing performance in San Diego, a company, explain how you start sort of, did you merge with them or were you acquired?

[Michael Bostick]

I was. I was fully acquired by them. So, yeah, I. Power Digital at that time was about 150 people. I know. You know, Grayson, I think you guys.

[Lauren Everts]

Hello, Grayson.

[Michael Bostick]

I think you guys both went to U of A together.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah, we don't talk about those days.

[Michael Bostick]

Your wildcat days. So I had been approached over the years to be acquired, and I had no interest. And. And I think that actually was a great thing, looking back, not build a company to sell. And you could argue was that, you know, the right way or the wrong way. But I. I think there was something, like, really beautiful in the fact, like, I had no idea what I was doing. I, like, still to this day, like, I know what I'm doing, but, like, 80%, I know what I'm doing. And so I had this kind of, like, leeway of I would take conversations, but I wasn't really interested. But what was happening? I sold in 2020, and it was becoming increasingly obvious that I couldn't just be a PR firm. Like, I had it in corporate performance marketing. Like, if you think about PR now, there's affiliate, there's pr, and to be just like a traditional media firm. Like, I knew my biggest fear in life is becoming antiquated. Whether it's like, my services or my. Like, I. I always want to be ahead. And so for me, it was either do I acquire, Do I, like, go out and buy another firm, or do I merge? And Power Digital was phenomenal. They had the same values. And so they acquired me in 2020. I became the chief brand officer, and then we scaled to about 800 people during the height of COVID in, like, 16, 17, 18 months, they were already owned by private equity. And then we sold again to private equity in 2022, which I again, you know, I had no idea how lucky it was to sell twice. Most people, like, you know, you sell and you get some cash and then you roll over some equity and most people think, okay, that equity you rolled over, you're probably not going to see again. That's kind of the thought. Because it's very hard to sell twice. And I was very lucky. I mean, the team was incredible. Like, I learned so, so much. And then I left in 2022, thought I was gonna retire for like three seconds. And then was like, I'm antsy, I wanna go do something again.

[Sarah Brooks]

And then be honest.

[Michael Bostick]

Yes.

[Sarah Brooks]

Because this part is not talked about enough. And I. We had the founder of Primal Kitchen on.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah. Morgan.

[Sarah Brooks]

Yes. And we asked her this.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah.

[Sarah Brooks]

When you sell.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah.

[Sarah Brooks]

Your celebration with your.

[Michael Bostick]

Yep.

[Sarah Brooks]

With your champagne. And you, like, feel like you're gonna retire for three seconds.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah.

[Sarah Brooks]

What's the comedown? Because there's a come down.

[Michael Bostick]

Oh, it's like having a wedding and.

[Sarah Brooks]

Then on Sunday you feel like you want to lay on the railroad track.

[Michael Bostick]

My husband and I were in the car, like when the wire hit, you know, and we're like driving and blah, blah, blah. And it's like you're so excited. You're so excited. And then it happens and like, you enjoy it for like two minutes and then you're like, you know, and it.

[Sarah Brooks]

Feels, it feels like, it feels like, it's like you're just stripped.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah. And I think, you know, you guys, I imagine, feel like this so much too. Like, your work becomes part of your identity. Good. Good or bad, it becomes part of your identity. And I was, you know, for so long, that was like such a focus that I think part of why I was like, why next is as I was, I was, to be totally candid, I was uncomfortable in the unknowing, of just not doing anything. Like, I, I, I. And I'm not good in, in those moments of just kind of like waiting. I'm a very impatient person. And so for me, I think it was this incredible achievement. But then I'm like, okay, what can I go do next?

[Lauren Everts]

Here's like, the mind fuck. I'll be able to use this language. People get mad when I cuss. But the mind fuck is that most people that we've met that go on to build a great business and sell it are highly productive, ambitious people. And then to then have that exit and sell the thing that you took so much time to build and then say like, okay, now you're done. Like, it just, it doesn't work with those kind of people. So I think a lot of people that see people like yourself that sell companies like, oh, I wish I could do that. But the reason you did it is because you're ambitious and highly productive and curious and all these things. So you're not all of a sudden going to turn all that off because.

[Michael Bostick]

That'S your personality and it's impossible to turn it off.

[Lauren Everts]

So you can't enjoy like people like there's no enjoyment.

[Michael Bostick]

Totally. And I think for me, you know, I had two babies during COVID I got married during COVID My husband and I stayed up so many nights being like, okay, how do we do this? How do we do that? I mean it was like the third partner in our marriage. You know, it becomes, I mean, you guys know this better than anyone.

[Sarah Brooks]

It's a threesome.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, it's a threesome. And so I think it's just a total dynamic shift in everything and it takes some time to get used to.

[Sarah Brooks]

When did you start, start to see white space for Goldilocks? What propelled you to do that?

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, so I had a non compete, so and people are like non competes are B.S. but I don't, I am like very afraid of the law. So I just like really honor things that are in legal form. And so for me it was like, I can't do PR anymore. And I've been doing PR for 20 years and it was like my identity. So I was like, what's PR adjacent? And my. I have two brilliant business partners. And when I started it was just Heather and I. Now it's Heather, Rachel and I. And Heather really like opened my eyes to brand strategy because so many brands would come and they would have this great brand and like the PR wasn't hitting. And you and I talked about this like PR is not this like silver bullet. Like you really have to know what you're offering, what you're giving that no one else can. And so we together were like, okay, is, is there an opportunity here to like really help brands with like the most critical part of their business, which is the foundation for why they exist? And it was PR adjacent. It's the same sort of kind of like PR is all about selling like and, and brand strategy is like the preliminary work to get your brand ready to like enter that next stage.

[Lauren Everts]

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It's why we've switched all of our household supplies when it comes to cooking and food storage to Caraway. We had the founder of Caraway on this show. If you just search the Skinny Confidential Caraway, you can find that episode where we dove deep into what they're doing and what they're building at Caraway. So if you're not familiar with the brand, let me tell you a little bit more. Caraway products are free from harmful chemicals. Microplastics. They don't have any Teflon. A single scratch on Teflon cookware can release over 9,000 microplastic particles. And the amount of plastic in brain samples has increased 50% since 2016. So we know we're not doing the right thing. We're not cooking with the right supplies. We're not using the right utensils. Caraway completely solves all that. Similar to cleaning supplies and healthier ingredients, caraway solves a problem and gives us peace of mind, knowing that we're not using chemical products to cook our food or to store our food. 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[Sarah Brooks]

This is such a hot tip for anyone who's listening because I've made this mistake so many times. I've hired a PR firm and then you expect them to go do the research on the brand along with a lot of conference calls. And there's something that's. That there's a, a link that's missing.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah.

[Sarah Brooks]

And what's missing is what you just said. So what I've decided to do is I took a beat on pr. We worked with you guys to get so dialed out and have such clarity around our mission and our brand. So now when I do decide to bring on pr, I can go to them with this beautifully tied present up in a bow and say, here's on the silver platter. Everything you need to know. These are the guidelines I'm curious at. Like, let's say there's someone who's listening that has a brand. Let's pick on Michael. Michael has Dear Media.

[Michael Bostick]

Yep.

[Sarah Brooks]

I want you to work with Dear Media. So maybe you could use this as an opportunity.

[Michael Bostick]

Let me pitch you some business right now.

[Sarah Brooks]

So Michael has Dear Media. He also has pr. I believe that he needs like this, this, this guideline that's done. I also think it should be done by someone who's outside of the organization because people inside the organization are too close to the picture. You need someone to step back and look at it pragmatically. How would you pitch to him to work with him and what would you offer if he already has pr?

[Lauren Everts]

Well, you already told me you just when you fall in love with people, you're cheap. So.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah. Yeah, man, that was 20, 2016. She's evolved. I think. So I one, I would say I am by far not a preeminent, you know, podcast network expert, but when you think about like Lemonada and you think about Spotify and you think all those like being here in the Dear Media office, I can already tell what you do is so different. Like looking at the wall of the hosts that are frame like you guys have found like the preeminent experts in the most interesting categories that people want to listen to. Is that properly getting communicated?

[Sarah Brooks]

No. Because she just called it a podcast network.

[Michael Bostick]

There you go.

[Sarah Brooks]

Hear that? She just called it. And what is it?

[Lauren Everts]

It's what's funny. So I'll, I'll explain it.

[Michael Bostick]

So please don't.

[Lauren Everts]

I think like when people bring up and listen, no shade, like if it's Sirius or I Heart or Lemonade or whoever else is creating audio, like primarily producing podcasts, like we operate so much differently. A lot of these companies, they're in production, maybe they don't do their own sales. They have no focus on commerce. They sell in a very singular lane, which is audio use a lot of programmatic tools and a lot of that.

[Michael Bostick]

They're not really, not vertically integrated.

[Lauren Everts]

They're not vertically integrated. And you know, their focus is really on the success of that audio property. For me, it's like we're multi, we're audio video, we're live events, we're invested in commerce businesses. I recognize that really just the attention of capturing a dedicated audience, which in our case happens to be primarily female then is you're able to aggregate that audience into other monetizable opportunities, whether that, that's products or live events or whatever. It may be premium content fast, but it's like I, I just, I look at, almost like I look at the media channels as, as kind of just the flywheel to service other opportunities. A lot of people don't realize like Dear Media is on, you know, 12, 15 cap tables of commerce businesses.

[Sarah Brooks]

What did Emily say from Feed Me?

[Michael Bostick]

Oh, yeah, I mean, so we were reading Emily Sundberg substack, who, who I love. And basically just like she was saying, if you were to take the headphones off every girl walking down 14th street in Manhattan, they're probably listening to a Dear Media podcast.

[Lauren Everts]

That's nice, Emily, thank you.

[Michael Bostick]

But I would say the flip side is like you probably haven't gotten the attention you deserve if you pair that fact. So where, where is there areas of opportunity in terms of crystallizing Did I win the business?

[Lauren Everts]

You won the business. And actually we should talk. But there's, you know, we should talk.

[Sarah Brooks]

I have productive meeting, right?

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lauren Everts]

Maybe my, my so called competitors or other people in the space will hear this. I've been very intentional about not participating in anything having to do with the podcast space. I don't go to the summits. I don't participate in like the things. I don't talk to podcast reporters really anymore. Like I, I understand that like we're doing a podcast, but I look at this as a show, as a show. Yeah, it's audio, it's video, the news, there's all the. And I think the podcast space in general has done a really good job of pricing itself down and getting very little attention. Like if I was on the executives that archaic that existed here before me, I would say you've lost an early negotiation with agencies and you've allowed them to dictate the pricing of the market. I would say you've only focused on one subset of the creators channels which is audio. I think that you've done it in a very like hey, go to skinny.com that's like there's such greater opportunity. And for me, like I just like the goal from Dear Media is to basically bring this into the mainstream, which I think it's like this. If election did anything, it's helped kind of articulate that these are important platforms.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah.

[Lauren Everts]

But that they're not just limited to some audio app and they're widely distributed across every relevant platform. And so I think like that's nice to hear Emily saying that. And I think she's recognizing maybe that we just operate differently than a lot of the people that were here. I mean.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah.

[Lauren Everts]

And then I'll shut up. A lot of these companies that started playing in this space were radio companies first and they're now just trying to figure out this kind of medium, but they're using radio tactics to do it it right and we don't, and we don't do well.

[Michael Bostick]

And I think just by default of what you said, like live events, audio, like you're right, you're 100% right. It's so much more than a podcast network. But like does the world know that? And how can we let the world know that?

[Sarah Brooks]

So, so say, let's just say you work with your media. What's the process look like and how can someone emulate the process at home?

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, I mean I think if we're talking about brand strategy, like we always start like what we did today, Lauren, like we start by interviewing die hard consumers. So like who are the people that like, like listen to 14 dear media shows? Who are people that go to events? Why are they coming to you? So if you want to do that at home and you have a brand like go stand in front of your local farmer's market and interview people after they buy your product. I mean it's so easy. You know, you can get much more sophisticated by like, you know, when we do it, we ask 200 questions and we're looking for little nuances in body language and we're probing more. And so there definitely is an art to that interview to get more. But you could certainly start, like, very grassroots by just talking to your, your heavy users. And then alternatively, if you talk to people who've never heard of Dear Media, but only listen to Lemonada shows, why haven't they heard of Dear Media? What is Lemonada offering? And so you talk to people that are die hards and you talk to people who are shopping the category or in this case, listening to other podcasts. And that's where you start to get a lot of kernels of truth that then you can build upon.

[Lauren Everts]

Well, you know, it's funny, even if, like, I'm thinking as you're talking, like, looking at Lauren's business, business, I was talking to somebody the other day and we, we talked when you, when you interviewed me, when you were doing the dive on her. And I think what makes her company unique is that she's not looking at, like, categories and then saying, like, she's kind of just working with the community she has and filling a void that they're asking for.

[Sarah Brooks]

I call it my flow.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, it's a flow.

[Sarah Brooks]

It's flowing with. It's not being like, I am just makeup.

[Michael Bostick]

Right.

[Sarah Brooks]

I feel like that's limiting.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah. I think, like, one of the best qualities of an entrepreneur and consumer products is being nimble but focused. And it's the balance between the two. Right.

[Sarah Brooks]

Gillian helps me be focused.

[Michael Bostick]

Amazing.

[Sarah Brooks]

My COO and my husband and I definitely, I do think being nimble is so important. But what I've realized is that the way the formula, quote unquote, of how to sell that all these people are copying is it's like, it's doing like the five step of this and launching that and then launching the next five step. And I don't want to do it. And it doesn't light me up. But most importantly, it doesn't light the audience up. If I were to just launch like, like 60 different beauty tools, I don't think that's what they want. They want to see other categories in perspective. And I want to hear their. As you know, I want to hear their feedback. Which you did.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah. And I think too, like, now that you're not, now that your mom Zaja is obviously not brand new, but, you know, now that you're a mom to two, I think that you think about what's in your home, you know, like, what are the products that you're putting on your kids? What are the household things? Like, you've evolved as an Entrepreneur as a media mogul, now as a mom. And so, like, the things that you now are seeking out, you probably weren't seeking out 10 years ago. And the. The listener, the consumer gets to go with you on that journey, and that's so powerful.

[Sarah Brooks]

Can you give them a behind the scenes of what you did for me, for the brand?

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, absolutely. Well, it was so funny because I think the conversation started when we ran into each other, and you're like, help. What should I do about pr? And where did we run into?

[Sarah Brooks]

No, you weren't there.

[Michael Bostick]

We were in Coronado.

[Sarah Brooks]

Saja was having a bit of a.

[Michael Bostick]

Tantrum with the floaties. We needed the floaties. She don't want the floaties to get.

[Sarah Brooks]

In the pool in my full clothes.

[Michael Bostick]

Yes.

[Sarah Brooks]

And I said, honey, I can't get in the pool with my full clothes on. I think I was wearing a full workout outfit. And she didn't understand.

[Michael Bostick]

Yes, go ahead. So we were chatting, and Gillian's a friend, and we were all just kind of talking about it, and just in the two or three sentences that you share, like, it's not working, like, these are the. These are like, why is this not being communicated? Like, this is what we're doing. Blah, blah, blah. I was like, I don't think you have a PR problem. I think you have a brand strategy problem.

[Sarah Brooks]

Yeah.

[Michael Bostick]

And not everyone, you know, some brands have it nailed down. Sometimes it's the inverse. And so what we started with is really trying to figure out, like, what. What is the. What is the absolute magic that the Skinny Confidential offers from a podcast experience, from a product experience that no one can. And in order to get there, we had to back way out and talk to consumers. We first started with stakeholder interviews, which is like talking to people who have a very heavy hand in the brand. Then we talked to some amazing super fans that you have that are, like, just had the most amazing things to say. And then we talked to people who were familiar with the Skin and Confidential, but maybe weren't buying the products. And that really kind of formed, and it's. It's so powerful. You know, this is qualitative research, but you talk to the fourth or fifth person and you're starting to, like, hear the same things.

[Sarah Brooks]

There's a thread.

[Michael Bostick]

There's absolutely a thread.

[Sarah Brooks]

And so what it did for me, if anyone's listening and they want to do, like, a brand deep dive, is I intuitively know where I think the brand should go. But it solidified and articulated what I was feeling. It made me have immense clarity. So I could look at it and be like, okay, you're right. There's this common thread of people saying the same thing in a different way. Maybe it also helped me. And I thought this was. And you can talk about this more. Is, is it helped me really get clear on the mission statement, which is really important. What are the tips that you would recommend to our audience to get, to get a mission statement?

[Michael Bostick]

I mean, it sounds so cliche, but like, if you are not authentic, like a consumer can sniff out bullshit so easily now. And it's like the biggest turnoff when it comes to like connecting a consumer to a brand. And so I think what we discovered, which we knew and it just validated is like being vulnerable, having this opportunity in these different channels to like, say it like it is. By bringing in experts, by sharing your own point of view, like that has, that has cemented the authenticity that you have with your audience. And, and we always like to start there, but not everyone has that and sometimes you have to build that. But when we think about it at the highest order, it's like, why you get up to do what you do on a very, very like, you know, hundred thousand square foot. It's like your, your, your vision. And then you start to distill it more. Okay, well then how does this translate to what I say? How does this communicate? What, how is this communicated on product. Product. But you always start with that, like, big, lofty vision, the bhag. You know, I want to change the future of food. Like, if you're a food brand, you're probably not going to do that tomorrow, but in 30 years you want to do that. So then how do you like kind of dial back to that and reverse engineer that?

[Sarah Brooks]

Go ahead.

[Lauren Everts]

I, I have like a, maybe a different question, but when. If you were consulting somebody who was thinking of starting a brand and they're, and they're just like. And they haven't even figured out the category yet. Is there any direction you would point them in or it. Or do they have to kind of know the category in the mission version? Or you can, can you. Hey, there's some white space. And people like, there's a lot of people just think, like, I want to be an entrepreneur, start a business.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah. I mean, so like one of my secrets, I think in business, and I think a lot of people do this is like, take every call and be curious. And so I, I talk to like a hundred entrepreneurs a week, and it's my favorite thing to do. I do some screening like this week, two days ago, I got a call from like a guy in a basement who was like, I need a hundred thousand dollars. I was like, okay, I'm probably not the right fit, but I still like, love talking to him and hearing about his food brand. And so. So I think that there has to be some level of like, preliminary research in the category. You have to know what category you're playing in. And like, there's very sophisticated tools that people use once they're ahead, like getting spins data or Nielsen data, like actual data that like retailers report. You're not going to have access to that. But I think there's ways like, like information has been so democratized now. I mean, there's trade publications that report on like the decline or the growth of a category. I mean, you can get very crafty on your own, for sure.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah. I was thinking like, you know, as we, when we look at things, we're not, we don't jump necessarily on trends, but we try to figure. One of the things that I think is interesting about running Dear Media is you. You sometimes get access to conversations earlier than they pop into the mainstream. Does that make sense?

[Michael Bostick]

Oh, totally.

[Lauren Everts]

Like, I remember, like, you know, obviously this is a fringe one that we're known for, but like these raw milk conversations that are becoming so topical across so many things. Like, you, you start to see those kind of conversations populate amongst a few different shows and being like, oh, this thing's going to go.

[Michael Bostick]

Yep.

[Lauren Everts]

And I, and I look at that data and I was like, okay, like, people that are thinking, like, if I was thinking about which kind of business going. And you can like, kind of watch the cycle of these conversations and it indicates like, which direction you should not. That should be wrong.

[Michael Bostick]

Totally. No, I totally agree. Like, and you start to have five or six of the same conversations with really smart people. And three years later you see that category, it's boom. Like if you look at like the Ollie Pops and the poppies, like they looked at what Big Soda was doing and they also looked at the rise of prebiotics and probiotics and gut health and they brilliantly combine the two. And now there's like every other, you know, soda is some sort of like gut health oriented soda. And then you're those, those players are too late, obviously, but absolutely. I think, I think that's spot on.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah. And then like, you start to see conversations, like there's a lot of conversations about limiting alcohol. There's a lot of conversations about enhancing sleep. Like you just. And then you start to see these different people kind of start winning in the categories. And I just, I always, I just find that interesting to observe.

[Michael Bostick]

Hot tip. I think male fertility is going to be huge this year. And I think, you know, when we think about like GLP1s and we think about supportive products, like there's categories that I think are just really, really interesting that actually still have room for innovation. It's hard to innovate too now. Like, it's actually hard to find something where there's not something in existence. And so those are two that I have my eye on.

[Lauren Everts]

Okay. And then my follow up question is, say you figured out a category and you want to sort of like, what are the things that you would caution people against in the early days?

[Michael Bostick]

Spending too much money, raising too much money, not having enough proof of concept before you spend too much money. I think that there's a very, very, like I. When I think about, you know, growing Covet, like it was methodical. I think it's what you guys have done. It's like, it's like being obsessed with the market response. It's being iterative, but it's not like, you know, there's, there's the balance of like going full steam ahead because you're confident with an idea, but also being like, like, you know, capital conservative and making sure. And I think that's what I see a lot like people overspending in one area, people going way, like spending way too much on Instagram or way too much on paid media, putting all their eggs in one basket. Like when you think of the marketing flywheel, like you want to spend a little bit in a bunch of different places and a B test and see what works before you spend more.

[Sarah Brooks]

What do you think that Suja did really? Right, because that was a brand that obviously crushed it. Like you said. We both know Annie and I think they did a good job. And we talked with Heather off air about this of really listening to their consumer.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, I think, I mean, scotch Suja. I think that's also an example of right time, right place. Because back then, like people who are drinking cold pressed juice, like Annie talked about this all the time. She had this like Norwalk press that was like a 400 pound clunk thing. So they took a process that historically had been very labor intensive and they put it in a bottle. And I remember there was this beautiful story in the Wall Street Journal that we got that was like, how much for salad in a bottle? And it was this idea that you could pack. It's like what AG1 is doing a little bit right now, but it was like taking all the things you should be eating and then they made it taste good. And I think that was like, for me. I think there's lots of like, case studies to be learned about suja. But they were able to take something that historically was punishment, like, oh, I gotta like plug my nose and like, you know, drink kale and celery. And they were able from like beautiful recipes to figure it out. They also, I think, like helped to democratize organic. They were able, over the course of their of the brand, able to introduce lower price point items, items to Walmart, to places that historically didn't really have things like this and to really kind of broaden the brand to be much more mass.

[Lauren Everts]

Are you someone who suffers from headaches or that midday slump or you feel like your energy levels just aren't what they should be? Maybe you're somebody that drinks a ton of water, but you never feel like you're really hydrated. You're going to the bathroom over and over and you feel like you're actually not getting hydrated at all. You're likely not, and it's probably because you don't have the proper electrolyte ratio in your hydration plan. This is why Lauren and I love Element so much. Element helps anyone stay hydrated without the sugar and other dodgy ingredients found in popular electrolyte and sports drinks. Electrolyte deficiency or imbalance can cause headaches, like I said, cramps, fatigue, brain fog, and weakness. Ever since I started taking element and incorporating it into my life, all of these symptoms have diminished for me. Here's how I take it. Every single morning when I go to the gym, I put a little bit of element in my water along with a little bit of creatine, and I drink it throughout the workout. So when I'm sweating and I I'm losing hydration, I'm replenishing myself. This gives me a better workout. It makes me feel better. I don't have headaches later in the day and I avoid that midday slump. What we love is they come in these individualized travel sticks that you can take anywhere, to the office, to the gym, on the go, when you're traveling. And each stick pack delivers a meaningful dose of electrolytes free of sugar, artificial colors, or other dodgy ingredients. Don't just take it from me. Element is used by Olympians, professional athletes, special forces, health experts, business leaders, and everyday individuals looking to feel better and have proper hydration. You can also Try Element totally risk free. If you don't like it, they'll refund your order, no questions asked. And they have extremely low return rates and high reorder rates. And of course, right now Element is offering a free sample pack with any purchase. That's eight single serving packets, free with any Element order. This is a great way to try all eight flavors or share Element with a friend. Get [e-mail] Skinny this deal is only available through our link. You must go tO-R-I-N K L M-N-T.com skinny this episode is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all in one website platform for entrepreneurs to stand out and succeed online. Whether you're just starting out or managing a growing brand, Squarespace makes it easy to create a beautiful website, engage with your audience, and sell anything from products to content to time, all in one place, all on your own terms. If you're somebody who's been sitting around procrastinating, waiting to start that online brand, that online business, that E comm store, that merch store, your newsletter, whatever it may be, it's time to start now. And Squarespace can help you do so. Lauren and I have been huge advocates of owning your own platform online. We all rely so much on these social platforms, these third party platforms, where we really don't control the algorithm, the content, any of it. It's owned by a third party. This is why we love things like Squarespace so much, because Squarespace lets you build your own website, your own newsletter, your own E comm store, your own merch store, and it lets you control all of that information in one place. It also helps you build these things cost effectively. If you think about the businesses we've built, we've built our own podcast that is hosted on our own RSS feed, our own websites and blogs, which we control and own our own E. Com channels. These are all platforms that we control and we own. Then we use third party social platforms to promote them. But we're not at the mercy of those platforms because we can distribute across all of them and then direct to the things we do own. Squarespace can help you do this. So whether you want to collect payments online, you want to build a course business, you want to sell content, you want to use SEO tools, Squarespace can help you do all of this. Of course, we have an offer for our listeners and viewers. All you have to do is go to squarespace.com for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch Squarespace,.com skinny to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Again, that's squarespace.com skinny so one of.

[Sarah Brooks]

My friends got sick and I saw her today after she was recovering and I brought her some of my favorite supplements. And amongst those were Symbiotica's vitamin C. No brainer. Symbiotica's elderberry, my favorite. And then Symbiotica's glutathione. I tell all my friends and family about this brand because it's just creme de la creme. Symbiotica is really. It's as clean as it gets. There's no seed oils, there's no preservatives, there's no artificial junk. It's just high quality, real ingredients that actually do something. I'm telling you guys, when I take this stuff consistently, I feel a difference. I know you will see a difference. How I take it is like my own way. So I'll do the vitamin C with beauty water and put it in water and froth it up. I just think they make products that are designed around energy, glowing skin and gut health. And they have a lot of integrity behind their products. I also think they taste amazing. My kids love the chocolate mushrooms that they have have. What I'll do is I'll be like, do you want chocolate and strawberries? And they're like, yes. And then I put like a little bowl of Symbiotica's chocolate mushrooms and I'll do strawberries with it. I've just found really fun, creative ways to use it. Symbiotica Wellness made simple. Go to symbiotica.com TSC for 20 off plus free shipping. That's symbiotica.com TSC you get 20 off plus free shipping shopping. I also think what Annie's done personally so well is she. When she was done with Suja, she went into a different category but with a similar mission.

[Michael Bostick]

Totally cleaning up beauty.

[Sarah Brooks]

I think where people that sell their company and then hop to something else do wrong is they'll like sell their company. That's like, I'm just making this up like an online, an online shop sale and then sell it and they go and open a restaurant. And you, you've done this really well too. It's like you, you take all the tools that you learned from Suja and then you use those tools and apply it in a category that's synergistic. She's doing clean makeup and she's really passionate about the ingredients and the formulations. It's actually so similar to what she did with Suja. It's just different categories. Category, which is what you're sort of doing with Goldilocks. Yeah.

[Michael Bostick]

And I think back to the early covet days, no one was setting beauty editors juice right. And it's like, you know, beauty.

[Sarah Brooks]

Victoria's Secret. Yeah, I remember that.

[Michael Bostick]

Yes. We were backstage at Victoria's Secret, and it was all being sponsored by like, or Bay and Revlon. And it was like, no, like, actually, like if you want your skin to look good. And so was popping up a kind of unexpected areas, for sure. And then. Yeah, I think with Goldilocks, it's like, you know, a second career, but. But it's really not. It's just a slightly different lens of which you're doing it. But again, like, I wake, like, why I do what I do. You know, I'm a mom of two kids. I'm in my 40s. Like, I could probably slow down, but, like, I just love building brands and, like, and. And. And finding that magic that a founder has there.

[Lauren Everts]

There are a lot of young people that want to establish a career in pr, branding, marketing. What would you. And they. A lot of them listen to the show. What would you tell those individuals that are. Are looking to establish a career in your space?

[Michael Bostick]

Oh, my gosh. I mean, be obsessed with consuming media. I think that if you don't know.

[Sarah Brooks]

The end product, you're sending me more articles than anyone.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah. If you don't know. I know every. I'm like, lauren, look at this. If you don't know the end product, you don't. It's like, it's like a doctor who's operating on someone without going to medical school. Like, if you don't know, like, what you want your end product to look like, which maybe it's a glowing story in the New York Times. So, like, read, read, read. I would. I. I still read the newspaper. Like, the actual print newspaper with the highlighter. Like, I'm dating myself. But, like, I become obsessed with people's bylines, who's writing it, what makes them tick. So I think you have to literally be obsessed with the N format, which in PR would be media platforms. You have to ask a lot of questions. I. You had Kira on your show? Yes, Kira was my first intern. And I mean, Kira is a one in a bajillion. But I think something that helped Kira that I did was I BCC'd her on every email. I wanted her to see how I communicated. I wanted her to see my tonality. I wanted her see my response time. And I think just like finding someone that will, like, let you behind the curtain, I think is so Finding a mentor, finding someone that will, like, show you how it's done, I think is really important.

[Sarah Brooks]

Just so people can go back and listen with Kira, Tell us now what, what Kira was working at Covet. And then tell us what she does now and if people want to go, listen, because this episode is complimentary.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah. Kira worked for me for seven years or so and she is so smart and she was very similar in the sense that we have this innate curiosity. And she'd been working with all these brands that got funding and she was kind of adjacent and she worked really closely with me when we sold again the second time. So she was in the management meetings and there's not a lot of women in. In, you know, venture. And so she left the agency world. She could have had any job she wanted. I. I mean, she must have gotten poached like 20 times a week from me. I mean, she's just dynamite, you know. And so she had her opportunity. And to this day, Kira, if you're listening, I still think you should start your own thing because she's so smart. But so she went and she worked at RX3, which was a growth stage equity fund. She learned so much there. And now she's the chief Brand Officer at set. And so think about it. She went from agency to investment to brand. And it's like, who knows more than her having gone through this whole life cycle.

[Sarah Brooks]

Yeah. She really should start her own brand. She does like a little ecosystem.

[Michael Bostick]

100%.

[Sarah Brooks]

Michael, I wanted you to talk about your take that you told me about in the car this morning when I almost. When I told. I told Sarah that we got in a little fight in the car today, but before we got in the fight, you were telling me about how you looked at X. And I thought it was really interesting and I think she would love it.

[Lauren Everts]

How I looked at X?

[Sarah Brooks]

Yes. Twitter.

[Lauren Everts]

What about it?

[Sarah Brooks]

You were telling me, like, how you think. Think X is supposed to be used.

[Lauren Everts]

Oh, well, I think, like I've analyzed over time, not just on our show or our properties, but other properties. And like, what makes something like, really hit.

[Michael Bostick]

Yep.

[Lauren Everts]

And not necessarily go viral, but like, what. Because I think going viral and like having something like hit and stick are two different things. Like, there's a lot of things that go viral and then you couldn't get sticky.

[Michael Bostick]

Yep.

[Lauren Everts]

Yeah.

[Sarah Brooks]

Not like what you were looking for. Not like the rim raiders.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Lauren Everts]

I think I don't know if this is so relevant to what we're talking about, but what I, I think it. What I was saying about X is. X is like, is the pulse of what's going on right now, today, in real time. And like, what people feel is most important in that real time. It's where people go to get the most, like, up to date. Like, for example, these fires were just going on in la and I was on X incessantly because we were actually in LA during that and I was like, okay, well, where is it? What's going on? It's like that was the most reliant place. I know people feel biased about some things, but. But it was the most reliant thing where I could see real people commenting on the real thing that was happening in real time.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah.

[Lauren Everts]

And then, and so I was saying. So there's that and then there's these other platforms that you curate content on, whether it's Instagram or TikTok. And you like, basically create something and then post it and leave it there. But I think there's. There's a moment when you can interject into real time conversations and then curate content within that. Within those moments to, to actually like, be. To become more relevant.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah.

[Lauren Everts]

And. And I, I don't know why you wanted me to bring this up, but what I was saying is, I'll tell you why that. I think brands sometimes spend all this time creating all this content and then they kind of like miss a moment or they're too late or they're too early.

[Michael Bostick]

It's too curated, it's too edited, it's too performative.

[Sarah Brooks]

That's what I want to know. I want to know how you would leverage something like X with a brand right now.

[Michael Bostick]

I think so. It's funny. And I still will call it Twitter forever, because I just, I mean, we. Hot top topic. I don't love the name. But with acts, for instance, like, it's interesting. Of all the social platforms, editors in particular, that's still their, their platform of choice because it's quick. It's. You're not worried about what you're saying. It. I think it's a really, really engaging platform. I think that, I think less relevant for consumer brands. Although there are brands like, I don't know if you've seen what Nutter Butter has been doing. It's like an acid trip.

[Lauren Everts]

I have not been up to speed on Nutter Butter.

[Michael Bostick]

Well, let me tell you, I love.

[Sarah Brooks]

A Nutter Butter, so.

[Michael Bostick]

And this is not. This is on TikTok. But like, if you're talking about using platforms an interesting way, like if you go to nutter butter, TikTok, it's like a clown in an acid trip. And it's so weird, but it's getting so many people talking because it's just weird enough. I don't think they paid more than like $4 to do it. And so I think maybe what you're getting at is like the pendulum has swung to like, over curation and like, not only can people, like sniff out the bs, but people don't want that anymore.

[Lauren Everts]

What I was saying is like, there's certain. And this was the, the context we were talking about. I'm like, there's certain big name guests that go on shows, but just because they have a big name, like, doesn't always like quite land. But then once in a while you'll have somebody that's got the right profile and the right name and the right kind of platform and. And then it's also the right moment in time.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah.

[Sarah Brooks]

And it collides.

[Lauren Everts]

And it collides. And it's like you could have that same person go and do a show or be on something six months earlier or six months later and it wouldn't land that way. But because it's. It collides with a specific moment in time where something's going on around them or something they're involved with with their profile that it, like it happens.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah.

[Sarah Brooks]

I guess my point is same thing with brands, by the way. Brands are looking to go viral. I think that mix of what you just said is, is important a hundred percent.

[Michael Bostick]

And it's like there's all these memes going around. Like if, you know social media managers, like, it's the worst job in the world right now because they're just being hired so they can make a brand viral, which just doesn't really happen like that. And I think it goes back to like the flywheel and it goes back to like, you can't manufacture virality.

[Sarah Brooks]

Who are the brands and the creators in your opinion? To look out for someone is people that you look at, brands that you look at and you're like, they get it.

[Michael Bostick]

So I mean, I think that I'm much more probably, I would say like educated on their brand space. We were just joking. I have like one follower on Instagram. I'm like, I'm like busy behind the scenes. I am.

[Sarah Brooks]

We talked about this. Do we want a plastic surgeon dancing in the surgical. We kind of want him in the surgery room.

[Lauren Everts]

Be careful. We know some of those guys.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, it's like the shoe cobbler son with no shoes. I think there's really, I think there's really interesting brands, like a few brands that I'm obsessed with. Rami, which is a protein pasta which you guys have to feed your kids. It's. It is like it's made with two ingredients and it's like you'll feel good about giving your kids macaroni and cheese because it's like 12. Oh, I like live on it. It's like 12g of protein. But something that. And like, full disclosure, they're a client of ours. But something that they've done so beautifully is take like, like the aspirational, the Italian culture, the. The founders Italian. But also like, protein is everywhere. Like, when you think about, like, what's trending, like, candy's getting into protein. Like, I don't need my sour Patch kids to have protein. But like, everyone is making a protein. So I think brands that deserve to have protein in that normal usage occasion are ones that are really interesting. Coyotes is a brand that we've chatted about. It is an amazing four ingredient tortilla brand. And it's just simple. And they have a beautiful, beautiful founder story.

[Sarah Brooks]

We have it in our fridge.

[Lauren Everts]

We do, yeah.

[Sarah Brooks]

We do.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah. It is delicious. I think it's, it's. I get asked, like, what makes a brand tick. It's just the, like, magic combination of all the things working at once.

[Sarah Brooks]

It's a recipe, isn't it?

[Michael Bostick]

It's a recipe.

[Sarah Brooks]

And it doesn't happen overnight.

[Michael Bostick]

Does not.

[Sarah Brooks]

I think that's so important. I just did a post on this about our podcast. I saw that it's been around for nine years. It's. It takes a minute. Like, if you think you're just gonna throw something, something to the wall and think it sticks, that's just not the way it works. No.

[Michael Bostick]

And you're so much better and smarter because you've been doing it for nine years. Like, you have such a leg up from people who are just getting started and think it's an overnight success.

[Lauren Everts]

But, you know, it's funny because I think a lot of people will listen to you and look at what you've done in your career, and some of those people will say the takeaway is like, you built something, you sell it. But I. But the more I'm listening to you talk, it's like, like the real happiness and excitement and fulfillment exists within doing something that you really love consistently. And like, at, at some point, like, even Though the money and everyone has to make an income and all that, it almost becomes somewhat irrelevant once your bills are paid and you're kind of like, you know, being able to, you know, live an abundant life. It's like you have to have the thing that lights you up.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah.

[Lauren Everts]

If you don't have that, then it all doesn't really matter. Matter.

[Michael Bostick]

I 100 I feel so lucky that I get to get paid for what I love to do. And it's, it's like, I think that's like hitting the. Letting the, the life lottery, if you will. It's like, yeah, some days are annoying, but generally speaking I wake up and I'm like, who can I talk to today? What can I learn today? Like what unlock can I have today? And I feel so lucky that I get to do that.

[Sarah Brooks]

What are Sarah things? Meaning what are your tools, habits, tactics, wellness, beauty. All your little things that you like? Like if we dissected your life.

[Michael Bostick]

Oh my gosh. I'm a basic biatch at the very core of it. I use lip smackers. Dr. Pepper. Yeah. It gives me the, the best red lip. I mean it's so funny. It's like if you open up my refrigerator, it has like all the brands we work with and, but like I, because I was in PR for so long, I got sent so many things. Like I don't have a lot of loyalty to any one thing because I.

[Sarah Brooks]

Hope you have an ice roller in the freezer.

[Michael Bostick]

I absolutely have an ice roller and I just got some face oil, some new face oil to, to put it on. I mean I like live on the same age. It's like a joke. Like I, I am a, I am a person by habit. I start every day with two eggs and an English muffin. I mean I, I like people. I eat like a six year old. Like I order off the kids menu. I'm not an adventurous eater.

[Sarah Brooks]

It's decision fatigue.

[Michael Bostick]

It's decision. It's decision. It kind of is. It's like why Mark Zuckerberg always wears, you know, the black turtleneck. There is something like that. I'm a mom so I, I have a seven year old and a four year old and so you know, it's like mayhem at all times. Which also makes hard I Kiehl's ultra facial moisturizer. My go to facial moisturizer.

[Sarah Brooks]

Tools and habits books. Anything that you really love that you would recommend to our audience?

[Michael Bostick]

Yes. I mean I'm, I'm into a ton of sub stacks. I just find like the Writing is super interesting because there's no publisher attached to it, so you can really, like, speak freely. We were just talking about Puck. Like, I'm a big fan of Puck. I'm a big fan of podcasts. I love to write. I kept a journal every day of my life starting at age 6, and I still journal every single night. Yeah. Yeah. I have, like, probably 500 journals. I. And it's. There's no format. I just kind of, like, write whatever. So I love to write. I usually fall asleep listening to, like, a New York Times audio podcast I run. That's it. Pretty simple.

[Sarah Brooks]

It sounds like you're simple with what you do, because what you do for a living is a lot of. It's a lot of weaving. It's a lot of elements. It's a lot of layers. It's an onion.

[Michael Bostick]

Yeah, 100%. I. I, like, I didn't grow up playing team sports, so I have. No, I was not. I don't have an athletic bone in my body. My. My passion. My whole life has been just talking to people. And so everything I do is, like, is. Is very simple to, I think, to give me, like, the mental capacity to, like, talk to people all day and learn about people.

[Sarah Brooks]

Well, you came to the right show.

[Michael Bostick]

I did come to the right show.

[Sarah Brooks]

If someone wants to work with you, I know you guys have probably a huge scroll of a waiting list. You do work. I don. I'll have to ask you off air, which brands? I can say in the intro, you work with some huge major brands that everyone would know. I don't know if there's NDAs, but if someone wants to work with you, who's listening? Or they already have a brand. What does that process look like? Where can they find you guys?

[Michael Bostick]

It's goldilocks. It's our. So www.itgoldilocks is our website. My Instagram handle with my one or two followers is @ the Sarah Brooks. And the best thing to do is just reach out. You'll probably talk to me because I'll probably. I'll pick up any call.

[Sarah Brooks]

I love it. And Michael, get on it with your meeting.

[Lauren Everts]

We're talk. We're going to talk. I was letting you do your thing. Lauren gets mad at me because she meets people, and then I kind of, like, weasel my way in. Then.

[Sarah Brooks]

No, this is what he does. I'll brag for a second. I'm the tastemaker, where I'll find a really smart person.

[Michael Bostick]

Yep. Like a gem.

[Sarah Brooks]

Like my interior designer that I just found. And I'll get them and I'll use them, and then Michael will see what I've done, and then he'll take it and rebrand it to be his own.

[Michael Bostick]

Absolutely.

[Sarah Brooks]

So he'll be telling me about you, like, in six months. He'll be like, well, Sarah said. And Heather told me. And I'll be like, bitch, I told you about that.

[Lauren Everts]

But on the reverse of it, I also let her sometimes do that. And then if it's a disaster, I.

[Sarah Brooks]

Can be like, I've had some disasters.

[Lauren Everts]

Like, we're gonna redesign this whole set. This whole thing's a disaster. She had. And I don't have to take any blame for it, because it was all her. Her.

[Sarah Brooks]

Someone told me she got hosed on the pricing. Our set looks like Alice in Wonderland when Alice was in the tiny, little. The tiny little cute.

[Michael Bostick]

Oh, I love it.

[Sarah Brooks]

And. But I think the cards are interrogating her.

[Lauren Everts]

The. The level. The levels got set because you have.

[Sarah Brooks]

To pull that image for YouTube anyways.

[Lauren Everts]

So, yeah, for the good ones, I kind of like, slide. I'm like, oh, what did. I just.

[Michael Bostick]

Isn't that what marriage is, though? You start to lose count of what's your ideas, what are their ideas? It's just part of it.

[Lauren Everts]

And when we get off, I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm gonna ask you honestly what you said about this morning in the car, because you were losing it.

[Sarah Brooks]

You know what? I'm hormonal, and I could use a Nutter Butter. That sounds so good right now. The pregnant Sal. Absolutely.

[Michael Bostick]

Get ready for a little acid trip.

[Lauren Everts]

Was like, oh, my God. I felt like I was dealing with.

[Sarah Brooks]

You never know what you're gonna get. I told you guys. They said. You guys said the sentence in the brand deck about how people respect our marriage.

[Lauren Everts]

I'm gonna put you on blast. She opened the car door like she was gonna leave in the middle of the intersection.

[Michael Bostick]

We did hear that. We did hear that. That is a powerful move. That is a powerful move.

[Sarah Brooks]

It looked at me like, oh, this kind of crazy. I was like, that's what we're dealing with.

[Michael Bostick]

Absolutely.

[Lauren Everts]

So get us some Nutter Butters. We'll leave them in the glove box.

[Michael Bostick]

Oh, my gosh. So great.

[Sarah Brooks]

Sarah, thank you so much for coming on the show. Go listen to Kira's episode now because. Very synergistic. And go. Dm. Sarah, if you have a brand, thank you for all your help with my deck. I look forward to see what you're going to do with your media.

[Michael Bostick]

Oh, yes. Thank you. Thank you for getting me my next client. I really appreciate it.

[Lauren Everts]

You really consider getting back on a talk show you're pretty good on?

[Sarah Brooks]

Yeah. You are.

[Michael Bostick]

Absolutely. You guys want to give me a podcast? Yeah. Send me the paperwork.

[Lauren Everts]

Get her contract.

[Sarah Brooks]

That's the way to to get out there. All of my favorite products. Mouth tape, brow peptide to grow my brows and lashes, the ice roller and even the caffeinated sunscreen can be found on shop Skinny confidential dot com. You guys, if you have not tried mouth taping, you have to try it. And while you're on the site, that brow peptide has changed and transformed my brows. Go to shopskinnyconfidential.com to check out all my favorite goodies. Thanks for listening and see you next time.