From Rock Bottom To Empire: Overcoming Burnout, Mental Health Battles, & Turning Set Backs Into Success Ft. Kevin Boehm

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Bossticks – "From Rock Bottom To Empire: Overcoming Burnout, Mental Health Battles, & Turning Set Backs Into Success Ft. Kevin Boehm"

Hosts: Lauryn Bosstick & Michael Bosstick
Guest: Kevin Boehm, James Beard Award-winning restaurateur
Date: April 9, 2026

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Main Theme and Purpose

This episode delves deep into the life, challenges, and extraordinary career of Kevin Boehm. As co-founder of Boka Restaurant Group and newly-minted memoirist ("The Bottomless Cup"), Boehm opens up with candor about his journey from a turbulent childhood and homelessness, through the mania and burnout of restaurant life, to finding healing after mental health crises. The Bossticks guide an unfiltered conversation about reframing success, transforming setbacks into growth, and the realities of both the restaurant business and personal transformation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Formative Years and Family Trauma

• Childhood Difficulties:

  • Kevin shares that he grew up in a household where he felt unloved by his father, leading him to constantly seek approval and reinvention.
    • “I knew from a pretty early age that my father hated me… I was chasing being liked in my own house.” (04:29)
  • He later discovered at age 18 that the man who raised him was not his biological father, a revelation that reshaped his perspective on family and self-worth (06:08–07:57).

• Mother as Protector:

  • Kevin’s mother was a source of support, but the home environment was fraught with secrets and unresolved tension due to his paternity (05:38).

• Forgiveness and Perspective:

  • Writing his memoir brought catharsis and clarity; Boehm details eventually forgiving his family and moving beyond revenge as a motivator (10:18–11:20).

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2. Mental Health, Burnout & Bipolar Disorder

• Burnout and Mania:

  • The rush and chaos of the restaurant business provided escape and euphoria, but ultimately contributed to his burnout and mania:
    • “Going through a rush inside of a restaurant to me was like a version of cutting yourself. I wanted to feel that pain and get lost in it.” (02:43)
    • Boehm speaks candidly about being “wired” for intensity, exacerbated by undiagnosed bipolar disorder (02:07–04:25; 19:31).

• Diagnosis and Resistance:

  • After experiencing persistent depression—most acutely after professional success—Kevin is told he is bipolar by a therapist, a label he initially rejects:
    • “I go, fuck you, Sharon. And I walked out. I’d only heard ‘bipolar’ in the context of someone being critical.” (20:38)

• Hitting Rock Bottom:

  • In 2020, after a combination of pandemic-related stresses and his mother’s death, Kevin describes reaching his lowest point, considering suicide before an unexpected phone call interrupts and saves him:
    • “My phone rang and it stopped me... If you can survive it, rock bottom is a gift.” (29:27–31:22)

• Recovery and Steps Out of the Darkness:

  • Therapy (“the best therapist ever”), daily sessions, and finally medication helped Boehm find stability. He also used ayahuasca to confront deeply buried pain.
    • “If you haven’t done the low-hanging fruit, if you haven’t talked to a psychiatrist and you haven’t talked to a therapist, do that.” (32:54)
    • Describing ayahuasca: “That’s the hardest 10 hours of my life. Like, ten years of therapy in ten hours.” (34:04)
  • Kevin now leads a sober life and has found balance that once eluded him.

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3. Building an Empire: Restaurant Philosophy & Entrepreneurship

• From Homelessness to Restaurateur:

  • Kevin recounts living in his car, saving every penny, and opening his first restaurant, Lazydays Cafe (12:12–14:21).
    • “I wrote this really beautiful piece of fiction that was my first resume… I went to the most fine dining restaurant in town…” (12:21)

• Crafting Human Skills:

  • The art of “touching tables” in hospitality influenced his ability to connect and negotiate in life—skills he fears the next generation lacks due to digital interaction:
    • “Your ability to be compelling in person … you got to do reps to do that.” (15:53–17:16)
  • He discusses de-escalation techniques with upset guests that mirror FBI negotiation (17:28–18:33).

• Advice for Restaurateurs:

  • Avoid building based on unrealistic financial projections.
  • Start scrappy, pour over every plate, be present “every night,” and don’t glamorize early restaurant life (48:43–49:49).

• Leadership and Firing:

  • Boehm describes his empathetic, transparent approach to managing and firing staff (49:49–50:43; 56:44–57:16).

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4. Personal Life, Relationships, and Transformation

• Relationships & Sacrifices:

  • High demands of restaurant life strained his marriage; only after sobriety and self-work did he experience healthier relationships:
    • “Courtney, who’s my ex-wife, would get the worst of me … I was like a method actor. And I would come home and I would turn back into myself again.” (40:54)

• Family & Co-Parenting:

  • He loves being a father to his three children, is amicably co-parenting, and reflects on his evolving role (43:24–43:49).

• What Life Looks Like Now:

  • Boehm now leads a group with 36 restaurants (44:02), is less hands-on nightly but deeply involved with culture, concept development, and mentoring the next generation of partners (48:00).

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5. Creativity, Future Projects, and Continued Growth

• Writing & Self-Reflection:

  • Kevin’s memoir, “The Bottomless Cup,” chronicles his journey; he's currently working on a new book titled “Are You Sure You’re Not an Asshole Soul?” based on 15 real-life adventures to test and build self-awareness (59:08).
    • “Every chapter’s gonna be one of these things to see how it bends me… Give away something in your life that’s meaningful to you.” (59:46)

• Appearance on "The Bear":

  • Boehm describes his cameo playing himself on the acclaimed series and the thrill of sharing a scene with Jeremy Allen White (60:07–60:56).

• Ongoing Expansion:

  • Multiple new restaurants are opening, including in Nashville, Denver, and Chicago. Boehm hints at Austin as a potential new home for his innovative restaurant concepts (44:11–44:47; 62:44).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I wanted to succeed because Larry told me again and again what a bum I was going to be.” (10:18)
• “Blind ambition does not do much for human development.” (11:39)
• “When you say ‘touching tables’… If someone’s upset, I have a tried and true approach.” (17:16–17:34)
• “I had a talk with myself, and I was like, kid, you got to get it together.” (12:21)
• “Rock bottom, if you can survive it, is a gift.” (31:22)
• “For the first time in my life, I wasn’t pretending to be anybody. It was my authentic self.” (31:31)
• “I never did that [drinking during shift] … By the time I got to my 40s, it was only on the weekends.” (36:58)
• “Pour over every plate, be super nice to everybody, and be there every night.” (49:04)
• Ruth Reichl, legendary NYT food critic, tells Kevin: “This time it’s me that’s moaning. So good.” after a memorable meal at Lazer Wolf (46:49)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Kevin’s early family life / paternity reveal: 04:29–07:57
• Revenge as motivation to success / transition to purpose: 10:18–11:20
• From homelessness to first restaurant: 12:12–14:21
• Hospitality skills transferred to life: 15:53–18:33
• Mental health and rock bottom: 27:17–31:22
• Therapy, ayahuasca, and real recovery: 31:31–35:26
• Sobriety and self-care shift: 36:39–38:08
• Restaurant group growth and new projects: 44:02–44:47; 59:08–59:46
• Cameo on "The Bear": 60:07–61:02

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Tone and Language

The conversation is unfiltered, emotionally raw, yet often playful, in keeping with the Bossticks’ signature style. Kevin is self-deprecating, deeply open, and insightful, while Lauryn and Michael keep the energy balanced with warmth, humor, and empathy.

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Conclusion

This episode is a sweeping, honest look at what it means to claw your way up from the bottom, face your demons, and reinvent your life with vulnerability and purpose. Kevin Boehm demonstrates that it is possible to craft not just successful businesses, but also a new sense of self when you’re willing to do the hard work—on and off the restaurant floor.

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Where to Find Kevin & The Bottomless Cup:

• IG: @kevinbahemboka (64:22)
• Latest book: "The Bottomless Cup" (buy anywhere books are sold)
• Restaurant group: bocagrp.com

Look out for his next book and, perhaps, a restaurant in Austin.

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“If you can survive it, rock bottom is a gift.” – Kevin Boehm (31:22)

Transcript

[Michael Bostic]

Welcome to the Bostics, starring Lauren Bostic and Michael Bostic.

[Kevin Boehm]

Together they are the Bostics.

[Michael Bostic]

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Bostics. Today we have Kevin Boehm on the show. He is a James Beard award winning restaurateur, has spent the past three decades opening more than 50 restaurants and building Boca Restaurant Group into one of the most celebrated hospitality companies in the country. Along as partner Rob Katz, he has launched over 40 acclaimed concepts, earning Michelin stars and numerous national awards. In 2019, the duo received the James Beard Award for outstanding restaurateurs. And for those in Chicago, Bame is also the co founder of beIN. I hope I said that right, Kevin, a 40,000 square foot, one of a kind private club in Chicago rooted in wellness and community. He showed us some renderings and some videos. It's a picture of the place. That's incredible. When I go to Chicago, I have to get there. And he's also recently debuted his memoir, the Bottomless cup, which was named one of Bloomberg's best books of the year and it became a bestseller. We had an incredible time talking to Kevin. He was one of the nicest guests we've ever had on the show. Some of the themes include the gift of rock, Bo bottom, reframing success, personal transformation, how to think about the world in an unconventional way, how to avoid burnout, what it looks like when you're burning it at both ends of the candle and trying to survive. This is really a story of somebody who's hustled their way to the top, has built an incredible brand, had a lot of tenacity, a lot of grit, and has done some really smart things along the way. He's also got some incredible stories with that. I think this audience is going to love this episode with Kevin. Kevin, welcome to the Bostics.

[Lauren Bostic]

Kevin Boehm is on the show. So I was served your book and I told you I was hooked from page one and then I needed to put faces to all the characters and so I went to your page and tagged you on Instagram. The book was so compelling. It was so good that I had to have you on the show. Thank you. So welcome.

[Kevin Boehm]

Thank you.

[Lauren Bostic]

Welcome.

[Kevin Boehm]

That's so nice.

[Lauren Bostic]

I think that I have a personal. There was a relatability to me in your book because I grew up in a restaurant. Like I remember being a tiny little girl and my dad dealing with produce during the day.

[Kevin Boehm]

So your dad was batshit crazy, just like me.

[Lauren Bostic]

You guys love intensity. You love intensity.

[Kevin Boehm]

I do, yes. Well, I Loved manic moments. And so I was this bipolar kid who didn't know the difference between happy moments and manic moments. And when I opened up a restaurant and it was so exciting and the chaos made me forget everything else in my life, I was like, this is happiness. I just need to keep doing this over and over and over again. And that was the prescription for a while.

[Michael Bostic]

We were talking about this before we sat down with you. Like, do you think that that business attracts personalities like theirs? And do you think you have to have that kind of personalities to sustain for as long as you have?

[Kevin Boehm]

Well, if you don't have a ton of energy, you're not going to be able to do very well. And I think the people who've had pain in their life that have gone through stuff that look at restaurant pain and kind of laugh at it a little bit. So they're like, oh, a 20 plate pickup. Or I just got sat four tables at the same time. I'm like, who cares? So I liked it and thrived in it. It was like going through a rush inside of a restaurant to me was like the. It was like a version of cutting yourself. I wanted to feel that pain and get lost in it. And it was almost like I was going to crash the plane. And right before it crashed, I'd pull the nose up and. And I'd get this huge high from it.

[Michael Bostic]

It's like a rush.

[Lauren Bostic]

I relate to what you're saying. I do this in my personal life with. I, like, I press it on time. I want to crash that plane and get right there, but then I come back.

[Kevin Boehm]

But you don't crash it.

[Lauren Bostic]

I want to get that right to the edge. He is the exact opposite of that. Do you think that's why you're a good match?

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah, we talk about that a lot. Like, I don't think we could. I think two of the same kind of people like that, that could be a mess.

[Kevin Boehm]

I think so. Oh, for sure. That's where you go down. Like, you know, Sid Vicious and Nancy, you go that direction. Yeah, yeah. I mean, for me, yeah, I would get to the end of the night then, and it was like. And you're all amped up and you're like, could I please get seven margaritas? You know, and so you'd put out that fire with alcohol. And then I would go to bed and I would do it over again. And one of the, one of the signs of being bipolar is that you don't need a lot of sleep. And so I would then go to Bed. I'd sleep for a few hours. I'd get up, and I would chase the anxiety again. I'd like, how fast can I get back to service so I can feel better again?

[Michael Bostic]

So what was your childhood like? Were you wired like this from an early age?

[Kevin Boehm]

So I knew from a pretty early age that my father hated me. You know, you pick up on social cues that someone doesn't like you very much. And in my little, tiny house, and he was a yeller and a screamer, and I was like, okay, this man does not like me for some reason. And so I was chasing being liked in my own house. And so from an early age, when you're not liked inside your own house, you think that the only way that you're gonna be liked or loved in life is by invention. And so I started thinking about who I could invent to be likable or lovable. And it seemed to me like the guy that threw a party every night and a bunch of people came, that that guy was pretty popular. And so I created this kind of restaurateur version of myself. But as a young kid, I struggled with just likability and the fear of criticism of others. And so I was kind of always chasing that.

[Lauren Bostic]

What was it like having a father who you felt didn't like you with your mom dynamic? Because I can imagine, as a little boy, seeing that with your mother was difficult.

[Kevin Boehm]

Yeah, my mom was my protector. And even if you look at a lot of pictures of us as a kid, my father's never standing close to me or has his hands on me or anything like that. And of course, very early in the book, I say, in the summer of 1989, halfway through a western omelet and a cup of coffee, I found out that I wasn't really Kevin Boehm. And so at 18 years old, I figured out why he didn't like me. And that was because I was the product of an affair, and I wasn't his son. And he knew it.

[Michael Bostic]

It was a constant reminder for him.

[Kevin Boehm]

He looked at me, and he saw Woody Valentine, who was my father.

[Lauren Bostic]

When Woody asks you to go out to eat at the diner, did you think it was weird, or did you know he was gonna tell you something profound like, he was your father?

[Kevin Boehm]

Yeah. I mean, I was trying to be polite, and I had met him a couple times, and the only thing I really knew about him was that he was an ex professional boxer, and that my mom had maybe worked for him for a little while. And so I was like, yeah, yeah, Whatever. I mean, I was also a poor kid. And he was like, hey, why don't I take you for a round of golf afterwards? And I was like, cool. I'd never played golf before, so I was a little uncomfortable with it, but I was like, eh, what the hell?

[Lauren Bostic]

So when he tells you that information, how did you go back to your other father? Who.

[Michael Bostic]

Who you thought was your father, thought was your father?

[Kevin Boehm]

So I went straight from him telling me that to my childhood playground because I knew that my dad was home for lunch, and I didn't want to face him. And it was the first time ever in my life that I had empathy for him. So you start thinking of all the things that had happened in your life, and you were like, holy shit. Laundry night. I instantly thought my mom would get all dolled up every Sunday night. Makeup, the whole thing. 60 Minutes would be on TV. And she refused to get us a washer and dryer because she went out on a date with Woody every Sunday night. And I'm sitting on that playground, and I'm rewinding all the things in my life, and I'm like, okay, now I understand why he hated me. Oh, my God. Mom has been carrying on this affair for all these years. Because when he was sitting there talking, he was talking about how much he loved my mom. And so a lot of things were making sense, but I was afraid to face anybody. And I just remember that it was three days later I left to go to college, and I was nowhere to be found because I didn't want to be home. I didn't want to kind of look at my mom.

[Michael Bostic]

Did your mom did know that he knew she was having an affair? And is it too bad?

[Kevin Boehm]

So this. No. I've sorted out some of this mystery, and some of it I have not. And some of it has been sorted out while I've been on book tour. Because when you write a personal book like this, it no longer is just your own anymore.

[Michael Bostic]

People can say, like, this is. I'm plugging some of the holes of the story.

[Kevin Boehm]

And so I've gotten calls from Woody's side of the family and other people I had never even heard, nor had my mom, that my dad had admitted or said to anyone that I wasn't his child. My mom and him never had a conversation about it. And then my banker at a book event came up and said, 10 years ago, your dad said to me, you know, Kevin's not really my son.

[Lauren Bostic]

Your dad that you grew up with in your home.

[Kevin Boehm]

Yes.

[Michael Bostic]

He was saying it to other people, Larry. But him and your mother could never face that truth together.

[Kevin Boehm]

Correct.

[Lauren Bostic]

It sounds like your dad that you grew up with loved your mother so much that he didn't want to rock the boat. And he knew if he rocked the boat, she would leave.

[Kevin Boehm]

Lauren, you're nailing it.

[Lauren Bostic]

I hope that's what I do for a living. It started as a bartender. You want a drink?

[Kevin Boehm]

Yes. Yes. She's getting heavy very quickly. Do you have a bar back there?

[Michael Bostic]

No. So did it feel like, I guess maybe for your dad, who wasn't your dad, that he was trapped in a way because he didn't want to rock the boat and he wanted to stay with your mother, but if you. He knew if he did that too much, she would leave and go with Woody.

[Kevin Boehm]

Yeah. I think my mom was the best thing and maybe only one of the few things in his entire life that made him feel good. And his big problem was, is very early on in the marriage, he tried to control it. You know, he kind of weaponized the Bible and I'm the master of the house, and it backfired on him. And then when he lost her, he was gonna do anything he could to keep her, including not saying anything about my paternity.

[Michael Bostic]

Did your mom love him?

[Kevin Boehm]

My mom felt sorry for Larry. And she said to me very late in life, like, I should not have married Larry. Larry could have found a woman who would have loved him. And I think that they both. I think that she felt bad about the situation.

[Lauren Bostic]

Do you feel after writing this book and there's so much to get to in the book, that you have forgiven Woody, your dad, Larry, and your mom?

[Kevin Boehm]

I'd always forgiven my mom. I never held anything against my mom. I carried a terrible grudge against Larry for a long time. And, you know, there are three pillars in life that I live by now, and it's. Do I wake up with purpose every single morning? And is my reasoning behind that purpose a noble one? It's not revenge, and it's not ego. It was revenge for a long time. I wanted to succeed because Larry told me again and again what a bum I was going to be? Two, do I run into the people that I like, love and respect while I'm doing that purpose? And then three, if I was watching the movie of my own life, could I do an edit of it that was unedited? Would I be rooting for myself as the protagonist? And would I be okay showing an unedited cut to everybody? And if those three things are in line, then I'M in line. The first part of that, the right reason behind the purpose. For a long time, I was on a revenge tour against Larry, and that's incredibly unhealthy.

[Lauren Bostic]

Have you let that go? Now you feel in your book you do feel bad for him. I felt bad as a reader.

[Michael Bostic]

Do you think you could have had the tremendous success you've had without that motivation, though? Because when we talk to people, it's like there's always the thing that's like the chip on the shoulder that's pushing. And the question is, could you have gotten where you've gotten to without that?

[Kevin Boehm]

Probably not. You know, blind ambition does not do much for human development. And in the last five years, I've done great work, as in my own human development, and probably made me not as good of a restaurateur. But I've now found this intersection where I can both develop as a human being and do soulful projects and figure out where my skill set goes and be a great father. But, yeah, for a long time, it was super unhealthy.

[Lauren Bostic]

You were homeless at one point, which you talk about. What did it look like going from homeless to getting that first restaurant open?

[Kevin Boehm]

Well, I make a joke in the book. I say, the first time you live in your car, you think, this is going to make a really good book someday. The second time you live in your car, you think, there's probably not going to be a book. And so, fortunately, I lived in my car once. What happened was I, you know, sometimes I would get uncomfortable sleeping in my Suzuki Samurai. And so I pulled a sleeping bag out one night, and I was sleeping under a tree on the beach, and I heard a mom say, kids, get away from there. And I looked up to figure out what was so scary. And it was me that she thought that was scary. And I just. I had a talk with myself, and I was like, kid, you got to get it together. And I wrote this really beautiful piece of fiction that was my first resume that had all these restaurants on there that had all mysteriously gone out of business, so they couldn't call for a reference check. And I went to the most fine dining restaurant in town, and I interviewed with this guy, and, you know, life's a game of inches sometimes. The owner of the restaurant was walking by. He asked me a question I couldn't really answer, and she grabbed me by the face and she said, I like this one. Mike hired this one. And he goes, I guess you got the job, kid. And I think it was just the universe looking out for Me. And two weeks into being at that restaurant, I was like, this is my home. These are my people. And what I realized about restaurant people, and you've seen this, Lauren. They know a lot about food. They know a lot about wine. They also know a lot about, like, music and movies, and they're dangerous. And I was like, yes, take me on a ride with these folks. And I did. I went on a ride with them. And I figured out also at the same time that I was really good at saving money. And so I was very superstitious. And I would put all my money from one job in an envelope, and I would lick it, and I would seal it. And I cursed myself if I ever opened up a sealed envelope, that I would never open up my first restaurant. And the other cash I got from the other job, I would live on.

[Lauren Bostic]

That's smart.

[Kevin Boehm]

And one day I had enough money, and I said, peace out to everybody.

[Lauren Bostic]

And you opened your own restaurant.

[Kevin Boehm]

I opened up a little tiny restaurant with my girlfriend at the time, Teresa, called the Lazydays Cafe. Six tables.

[Lauren Bostic]

That menu sounded so good. I was like, fuck, why isn't this open anymore? That menu sounded so good.

[Kevin Boehm]

It was simple, but in so many great ways. You know, we literally would have fishermen knock on our kitchen door and say, hey, I just got some cobia. You want to buy it from me? Which is completely illegal. But, yes, we would buy cobia off of a guy, and that would be the fish special. And she would make puff pastry, and we would have three different puff pastries every night and do these en croute dishes. We would have pasta with roasted garlic, tomato cream sauce, and fresh Gulf shrimp, baked garlic. When you sat down, do a couple of salads, and that was it. We had one. Six burner.

[Lauren Bostic]

When are we going to Chicago?

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah, now I'm hungry.

[Lauren Bostic]

You know, one thing that I have so much respect for restaurateurs like you and my father is that you really have to be an octopus. You have to do it all. You have to be the handyman. You have to be ringing things in. You have to make drinks. You have to cook. You have to have good energy. You have to finesse. You have to. The five senses. You better understand the five senses. You don't understand the five senses. That's not going to work.

[Michael Bostic]

You got to have a good personality.

[Lauren Bostic]

The music, the Miles Davis post music playlist that you had when you said that, like, you got. It's got to be the right volume. You got to have personality. What do you think when someone's in a restaurant, and they have all these different skills. How do you think that applies to outside life? Have you been able to use these octopus skills everywhere?

[Kevin Boehm]

100%. Well, first of all, I worry for the new generation sometimes, because your ability to be compelling in person and get people to believe in you, and all of those things, you got to do reps to do that. And so the touching of tables that I did very early on in restaurants, that imbued all the conversations I had the rest of my life, because I could see which ones impacted. I was always pulling levers, and I would be like, oh, yeah, say that. That's a good line. And I've used that my whole life. And I lecture every once in a while at my alma mater that I went to for a little while. And recently, I sat six chairs in the front of the room, and I said, hey, six people sit up here. And I sat a chair in front of the first person, and I said, hey, what'd you have for breakfast this morning? And she goes, what? I sat in front of the second person, I said, what'd you have for breakfast this morning? And she was like, third person I sat my chair in front of, I said, what'd you have for breakfast this morning? And she goes, I like to combine my cereals. And I was like, say more. She's like, well, I throw some corn flakes in there for some crunch and some Fruit Loops for sweetness. And I'm like, you're like a breakfast chef? And she's like, I said, you should work for Kellogg. I go, guys, she got the job. And so learning these personality skills, we're on our phone so much, and you can really think for a long time how you're going to respond to somebody on Instagram. But that doesn't happen in person.

[Lauren Bostic]

When you say touching tables.

[Kevin Boehm]

Yes.

[Lauren Bostic]

What is the trick to approaching someone if someone's listening out of the blue and touching a table? And I mean, you can apply this in any area of your life.

[Kevin Boehm]

You can. So first of all, if someone's upset, I have a tried and true approach to it.

[Lauren Bostic]

Let's hear it.

[Kevin Boehm]

So first of all, server comes over and says, hey, position three, table 42. They're allergic to cilantro. And they told us, and we still serve them cilantro. I'm like, okay, crap. So I'll go to the table, and I'll go, hi, Mrs. Smith. I've heard about what's happened. I've been briefed on it, but is there any way that you could tell me in Your own words. So I make sure that I understand everything. So first of all, it means that I care. Two, when she tells me about it, it's going to de escalate her. So then while she's telling me about it, I active listen so she doesn't think that I'm just like, not fully in with her and on her side. And at the end of it, I apologize and I do some sort of action. I had dinner with the head FBI negotiator once I told him that, and he's like, you'd be pretty good at my job. He goes, I do basically the same thing. So I was that guy that they would send in when somebody was really ticked off.

[Lauren Bostic]

It sounds like how I deal with my toddler.

[Michael Bostic]

Does it de escalate? Because they have to voice why they're so ang and they realize it's maybe not worth being that angry about.

[Kevin Boehm]

Well, think about when you get really angry. It's almost like you're holding your breath. I can't wait to get this out. And then when you talk about it and you're like, I told the server that we were going to have. And they're breathing while they're talking, and as before you know it, their heart rate's down a little bit. And you're like, how about I buy your meal tonight and how about I give you my card and the next time you come in, I'll start your meal out personally the next time? And in those early days when I was young and scrappy and I was so crazy concerned about every table and so paranoid because I had terrible anxiety that one little misstep, people were not going to come back. And so I was always the guy rolling and saying, God, Table 22 doesn't look like they're having a good time. What's happening? As I was paranoid about everything.

[Lauren Bostic]

At what point did you recognize that you had bipolar?

[Kevin Boehm]

Um. Wow. I remember watching Ordinary People when I was young and Timothy Hutton in that movie commits suicide. And this was, you know, Redford directed it, and it was Mary Tyler Moore as the overbearing mom. And I was like, oh, wow, there's. Maybe I have a little bit of that. Because when you're young, it's a Michael Jordan, like, leap to go from thinking I get in bad mood sometimes to I have a real problem with depression. And watching him, I was like, okay, maybe there's something there. And then when I sold my first two restaurants and I went back to Springfield, Illinois, I was having real trouble every single morning. And I'm like, why am I not happy? I just sold two restaurants. I'm back in my hometown. I get to show Larry what I've done. And I went and saw a therapist, and I met with her for 90 minutes. And at the end of it, she said, kevin, I think you might be bipolar. And I stood up and I said, I go, fuck you, Sharon. And I walked out because I'd only heard bipolar in the context of someone being critical about someone else. Like, oh, they're bipolar.

[Michael Bostic]

Crazy.

[Kevin Boehm]

They're crazy. And I'm like, I'm not fucking crazy. I'd spent my whole life trying to not be crazy. I classified Larry as crazy. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not that. And so I walked out. But it was in the back of my head for years then that, like, okay, there's something wrong with me, but I can fix it. I can fix it. If the Chinese have done it for 5,000 years, I'm going to try it. I'm going to do float therapy. I'm going to do acupuncture. I'm going to run six miles a day. I can outsmart this. I can outwit it. And I really thought for many years that I could until I couldn't.

[Lauren Bostic]

This episode is brought to you by Zyzol. I am so allergic to cats. The worst. And I use zyzole allergy 24 hour. Okay, if you're like me, if I like, even smell a cat, I don't feel good the next day. So it's really important that I always have my Zyzol allergy 24 hour relief in my handbag. It starts working and I can tell you guys this quick. It's like in as little as 45 minutes, Zyzole relieves allergy symptoms including sneezing, runny nose, itchy, watery eyes. I get a lot of watery eyes and an itchy nose and throat for 24 hours. It gives you you continuous 24 allergy relief that won't fade. It's also designed to be taken at night, so it's already working at full strength in the morning when pollen levels are the highest. I'm also sensitive to pollen, and Austin is difficult. 24 hour prescription strength relief from outdoor allergies such as pollen, ragweed, grass, and trees. And then you also are going to get relief from those indoor allergens such as dust, mold, pet dander. 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I like that they are on a mission to unjunk the world, starting with chocolate. Their vision for the future is a world where all food is 100% real. So you can expect gluten free, non GMO, kosher, zero artificial preservatives, flavors or colors. You can also find Unreal products anywhere. Cravings hit, including Whole Foods, Target, Costco and other grocery stores. As a special offer for our listeners, visit unrealsnacks.com skinny to get $2 off a bag of Unreal. Terms and conditions apply. One thing that I am very passionate about when it comes to my children is having long sleeve swimsuits. So I found this brand. It's called Minnow. They have the cutest suits and what I like about these suits is that they have UPF 50 plus protection blocking 98% of UVA and UVB rays. They come in the cutest like I can't even tell you patterns, textures, all the things. The fabric is so premium. 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Shop Minnows new Apreski capsule [e-mail] Enter code meat minnow15 at checkout to receive 15% off your first order. That's shopminow.com code meat minnow. 15 for 15% off. What point did you feel like you couldn't and you needed to make a change?

[Kevin Boehm]

Around 2016, 2017, I was in real trouble. And I was actually inside the restaurants, and I remember being in the restaurant one night and needing to engage in something, and instead walking out the door and getting in my car, and, like, the universe was playing tricks on me. The Rich Eisen show was on tv, and Kevin Costner was being interviewed by Rich Eisen. And I'm driving along, listening, and he said, hey, Kevin, who's the best actor you ever worked with? And he said, gene Hackman, by far. And he goes, let me tell you a Gene Hackman story. He goes, I'm in a huge fight with the director because every scene between me and Hackman were across from each other at the table. And I'm like, we're not filming it here. I need to move around. We're going to film it over here. Taylor Hackford's like, no, we're not. He's like, yes, we are. And they're screaming at each other. And at one point, Taylor Hackford goes, hey, Gene Hackman's in the scene, too. Maybe we should ask him. And Kevin Costner says, you know what? Gene's pretty fricking good. I think he'll figure it out. So they film it over here, and at the end of the day, Costner walks out into the lot, Gene Hackman's sitting on his car, and Costner goes, oh, crap, I've disrespected this guy. And he goes to get hammered. That's not what happened. Hackman goes, you know what? The last five years, I've been really depressed, and I've been getting a divorce, and I've been taking bad movies, and I haven't been able to do what you just did today. That was the right move. Keep doing it. He got his car and drove off, and it landed with me. Like, I got punched right in the face. I was like, I can't do my job anymore. And there was a slow climb for me then to really start thinking about my own mental health. And unfortunately, what got in the way of all that was the day before the pandemic really hit us, and they closed all the restaurants. My mom died. And that's when I really fell off a cliff. And, you know, a year later, I was in this town in Los Angeles, standing on a ledge after I'd written four suicide notes and getting ready to jump.

[Lauren Bostic]

You talk about this in the book, but if you could paraphrase it to the audience. What woke you up out of that?

[Kevin Boehm]

My phone rang. I woke up that morning, and my brain's never been more of a tornado than it was that morning. And, you know, during COVID there was. People had kind of turned their guns a little bit on the restaurant business, and there had been this kind of blog hit piece that had come out about us laying some people off, but they didn't know the full story. It was a management deal that we had left, and the hotel was just going to rehire them, so they didn't have the full story. And I had read that piece, and I just couldn't take. I just couldn't take the pressure or the criticism anymore. And I'm not a day drinker, but I ordered up a bottle of wine and polished off the complimentary bottle of wine in the hotel room, and I was like, this is it. Sometimes when you're sad, you want to feel even sadder. And I put on the saddest song I could think of, and it almost put me in a trance. And I went out there ready to jump, and the phone rang and it stopped me.

[Lauren Bostic]

Who was on the phone?

[Kevin Boehm]

Nobody of any significance.

[Lauren Bostic]

Just a random.

[Kevin Boehm]

It was just the ring that stopped the song from playing.

[Lauren Bostic]

Huh. And did that wake you up from what you were doing?

[Kevin Boehm]

It. It forced me because I had literally released my hands and I just stopped for a second and I climbed back down, and then I grabbed a pillow and I fell asleep on the balcony. And when I woke up. You know when you wake up and you have that 30 second reprieve to where you can't remember what happened? Well, when you wake up in a flop sweat on a balcony, you don't get that 30 second reprieve. I woke up and was like, oh, my God, something is seriously wrong with you, and you can't outsmart it anymore. And then I spent the next hour writing 20 things that I needed to do in my life if I was going to move forward and rock bottom. If you can survive it as a

[Lauren Bostic]

gift, give us some of the things on that list. Because there might be people who are listening that are feeling low and that might inspire them.

[Kevin Boehm]

Yeah, well, the number one thing on the list was get a therapist right away. And you need to talk to that therapist five days a week. And I did. I got a therapist right away. And I said, I really need you every day right now. And what I figured out real quickly is if you're doing it right, your relationship with your therapist is like, no, relationship you're going to have in your life because they're not there to like you. They're there to help you. And so for the first time in my life, I wasn't pretending to be anybody. It was my authentic self. And I just said, here's who I am and I need your help. And I just happen to have the best therapist ever who's still with me, you know, so that relationship. And Elena, you know, she really. She really helped save my life for the first time ever. Here's my authentic self. Here's everything that's happening that I'm thinking, that I'm feeling. That was the obvious first step. And she helped me get medicated. And the medication, when it really kicked in, that's probably the biggest regret of my life.

[Michael Bostic]

Why?

[Kevin Boehm]

Because it got rid of the irrational anxiety. And I was just like, God damn it, Kevin, you could have done this a long time ago.

[Lauren Bostic]

So it felt like there was a foot on your neck and then that removed it, and it immediately gave you relief.

[Kevin Boehm]

I was super happy. And then I was like, kevin, you son of a bitch. What an idiot. All the low hanging fruit. And so if you haven't done the low hanging fruit, if you haven't talked to a psychiatrist and you haven't talked to a therapist, do that. And then I went to both my companies and I said, guys, I'm not going to be around for a little while. I need time away. And I remember the next day, like eight people called me from both companies and I was like, I don't think you guys understand. I'm being serious. I need you to leave me alone.

[Michael Bostic]

Were they just not used to you, that version of you?

[Lauren Bostic]

Because he was constantly, always on, like, 24 7, it sounds.

[Michael Bostic]

Imagine if you're. And also if you're bipolar, you might say something. They're like, oh, he'll be different tomorrow.

[Kevin Boehm]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're like, oh, he's. He's gonna be fine. Hey, I just wanted to talk. I was like, no, no, no, leave me alone. And they were like, oh, oh, this is real. Then they left me alone.

[Lauren Bostic]

And how long did they leave you alone for?

[Kevin Boehm]

It was really about six weeks where I didn't walk a dining room, go into a restaurant, and I really just concentrated on my own health. I went and did ayahuasca. And that's the hardest 10 hours of my life. Why 10 years of therapy in 10 hours?

[Lauren Bostic]

Is it really that.

[Kevin Boehm]

Oh, my God. Anything that you've put into your subconscious, that's trauma, shame, guilt, pain. You Basically sit in it for 10 hours. So all these things you've tried really hard not to think about, you are transported there. Most of the time I didn't know that I was in the room. I was back in those places. And it's been incredibly effective with soldiers who had ptsd, but it's really effective with anybody who has a lot of stuff stored up in that subconscious.

[Lauren Bostic]

Would you do it again? Because sometimes I hear people are like, I need to do it every year, or is one enough?

[Kevin Boehm]

It's a great question. I sure don't want to do it again. It's awful.

[Michael Bostic]

It's not like an enjoyable.

[Kevin Boehm]

It's work. Yeah, no, it's work, you know, and so everybody that was a first timer that was doing it there with me, you know, I was literally hugging the guy next to me. My biggest mistake was that I didn't take a loved one with me and someone that I could count on and trust. I was looking for something and someone to hold onto besides the shaman. In the middle of it, I went to the shaman. I was like, could you please make this stop? And he goes, kevin, you came to sit here in the sadness. Go back and sit in the sadness. That was it. I sat in the sadness for 10 hours. And then three days later, I had the lightest and greatest sleep of my life.

[Michael Bostic]

Do you feel like it kind of got it all out, or you were able to just face it and look at it differently, or.

[Kevin Boehm]

There was a couple things that I had repressed. You're like, of course that happened. Of course that happened. And I was able to deal with it. And because I had Elena, I could sit with and talk to her about it. And so that was super important. All that work that I was going on and doing at that time, and then not having to worry about work for a little while, stopping drinking. The big problem with drinking was I was fairly disciplined about it. I would drink, like, one day a week, but that one day a week I would have, like 12 drinks, and then for three days afterwards, I would have suicidal ideation. And so I spoke to a friend of mine, and I'm like, well, I'm not an alcoholic, you know, I only drink like one day a week. And he goes, but what happens? And I go, well, I feel like I want to kill myself afterwards. He goes, well, how long has that been going on? I said, 10 years. He goes, kevin, you can call it whatever you want to call it. And so I went cold turkey on drinking.

[Lauren Bostic]

So you weren't drinking, like, a lot of People in the restaurant industry, the way they drink, because I used to do it when I was a young girl, is you go in the back in the closet and you take a couple sips of wine and you do it all throughout your shift. And you don't get too drunk because you're serving people. But it's almost like a slow drip. That's not the way you were doing it.

[Kevin Boehm]

I never did that. So in my 20s, it was always after service. So sorry, Daddy. I'm sure dad. I'm sure Dad's been there. But what I would do is dad

[Michael Bostic]

was in the closet too.

[Kevin Boehm]

Dad was in the closet. He probably had a couple vodkas. I would get done with a shift and it would be like 10 to 10:30. And that's when the place would kind of shift to a party. And I would go up there to quote Johnny Depp and order my mega pint of Cabernet. And I would get an 11 ounce

[Lauren Bostic]

cabernet, the biggest cup ever.

[Kevin Boehm]

Just a giant tub of Cabernet. And yeah, it was kind of like red wine and tequila for me. And then I would drink kind of the rest of the night, but post service. And then when I got to my 30s, it was a moderated version of that. By the time I got to my 40s, it was only on the weekends. And then by my, like mid to late 40s, it was like only on Saturday night.

[Lauren Bostic]

You had a discipline around it, but it still was problematic.

[Kevin Boehm]

It's exactly right.

[Lauren Bostic]

So right now, are you still sober?

[Kevin Boehm]

I'm still sober. I drink a lot of caffeine.

[Lauren Bostic]

I have the best, by the way. This is just random tangent mocktail ever. You have to try this.

[Kevin Boehm]

Okay.

[Lauren Bostic]

Okay. Peak tea. Use code skinny.

[Kevin Boehm]

But actually, you already got me because I get so upset when people don't have tea.

[Lauren Bostic]

It's not a tea, really.

[Kevin Boehm]

Is there caffeine in it?

[Lauren Bostic]

I don't know if there's. No. It's a nightcap.

[Kevin Boehm]

Okay, got it.

[Lauren Bostic]

It's called Vesper. It tastes like an Aperol Spritz.

[Kevin Boehm]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Lauren Bostic]

And I put my Pellegrino on top of it. Squeeze a lemon in it. You could also do an orange and a bunch of ice. And it tastes like I'm drinking a fucking Aperol spritz every night.

[Michael Bostic]

We have a lot of friends that were in the nightlife and restaurant business. And he was explaining to me and he. He recently cut alcohol cold turkey and needed to. But he was in your world for 50 years. He had his first nightclub when he was 19 years old and then just kept going. And he's like. The way he described me, he's like. He's like, you know how you came into our spots? You'd have, like, dinner, and you go to the club and have drinks and all that. He's like, you know, you do that, like, in the weekend. I'm like, yeah. He goes, well. He's like, I never left. He's like, so that first night you came in, and then you, like, left and went. He's like, I just never left. He's like, I stayed there for 40 years. And he's like, so that's why I need to, like, make some changes. Because we go as patrons and we enjoy, and then we leave and go back to our life. But people like yourself that are just living it. And then he was expected to be the guy. Like, you walk in and you would see him, and people want to have. Buy drinks with him and hang out with them and do the thing. And I think at some point it just overwhelms and catches up.

[Kevin Boehm]

It does. I drink a weird amount of iced tea now.

[Lauren Bostic]

Oh.

[Kevin Boehm]

And I get. I get very angry when people don't have iced tea or. Or I'll ask them to make green tea and put it over ice.

[Lauren Bostic]

I would have had that for you. Ready to go. Had I known that next time you come on the show, I will have that.

[Kevin Boehm]

And I just dust the room with a little bit of cocaine.

[Lauren Bostic]

Okay.

[Kevin Boehm]

All right.

[Lauren Bostic]

Like, half rim of cocaine.

[Michael Bostic]

Get out the cocaine. No, just kidding. I think it's a joke, people. It's a joke, guys.

[Kevin Boehm]

The dear media. Cocaine is amazing. As you know, Ben, I heard radio shrugs were nothing compared to.

[Michael Bostic]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Lauren Bostic]

I think one thing that people don't understand is how difficult the restaurant business is on a relationship. I saw it firsthand. My mother and my father worked in the business. My mom was the details person. My dad was the visionary. The big picture, a little harder to control, a little more adhd. And my mom was sort of like the organizer. Michael's my mom. I'm my dad.

[Michael Bostic]

Weird dynamic.

[Lauren Bostic]

Yeah, it's weird dynamic. I gotta go do ayahuasca.

[Michael Bostic]

But I think water Repression garden.

[Lauren Bostic]

They don't realize, like, how crazy it is on a relationship. And in your book, you kind of touch on your marriage where you. You were saying, like, it's really almost hard to make time for a marriage because you're managing the whole restaurant and you have to rush home. You talked about putting your baby on your chest and, like, really savoring those Moments. What was that like?

[Kevin Boehm]

Well, I mean, a lot of times, Courtney, who's my ex wife, would get the worst of me, you know? Cause I would expend all that energy on other people, and then I would drop the facade. I was like a method actor. And I would come home and I would turn back into myself again. So, I mean, I think it was hard on all of us. You know, I think one of Cordy's quotes one time was like, you're never boring, but you're also no picnic. And I think that was absolutely the truth. So, you know, yeah, really hard on relationships my whole life. You know, my girlfriend now, Anya, you know, gets a much better version of me because she gets the balanced, sober me, which is like so much better of a version. So I'm glad. I'm glad that I met her at this time. But, yeah, really hard on. Really hard on Court. And, you know, I did the best I could. I didn't get raised in a house that was a normal family life or a normal marriage. And so I was also learning how to live within a family. And I remember very early on, like, you know, Courtney being like, yeah, we sit down to dinner together. I had never done that growing up. We only sat down for dinner together at the holidays.

[Lauren Bostic]

Which is crazy because you were serving people sitting down to dinner together. And I don't know if serving's the right word, but courting and hosting and having all these people do that in front of you. But it seemed like in the book, you almost couldn't do it for yourself.

[Kevin Boehm]

Correct. I was fending for myself. You know, part of the independence that I got. And the reason that I could drop out of college and. And drive down to Florida by myself is. Cause I'd been kind of independent for a long time. I'd kind of felt like I'd been independent since I was 12 years old.

[Lauren Bostic]

Was the divorce that you had. Cause you didn't speak about this in the book. Was that after all of this happened with Ayahuasca.

[Kevin Boehm]

Yeah, this was after. This was after. You know, and sometimes, like I think the way I said in the book, you know, Dave Mason's got a song. You know, there ain't no good guy, There ain't no bad guy. There's only you and me and we just disagree. And, you know, we had just gotten to a point. We were much different people than when we met. She was very young when we met. She was, you know, what were we, like, 21 and 31 or 22 and 32. When we met and so we had just become different people. And she's an incredible mom. We have three kids together. We co parent. Well, I've got a 20, almost 22 year old daughter at Pepperdine.

[Lauren Bostic]

She's so cute. I saw her on your Instagram. You're in trouble, man.

[Kevin Boehm]

I know.

[Lauren Bostic]

Oh, I don't know what you're gonna do.

[Kevin Boehm]

I. She's tough as nails. I pity the fool that messes with Sophia Boehm. I pity the fool. And then Lola Bame. It just got into University of Michigan. My brilliant daughter.

[Michael Bostic]

That's a good school.

[Kevin Boehm]

It's incredible. And she's in love with her new boyfriend, Owen.

[Michael Bostic]

You like the guy?

[Kevin Boehm]

He's great. He's an incredible kid. And then my buddy Luca, my little boy. He's 12 years old.

[Lauren Bostic]

So crazy. What does your life look like now when you go from all of this restaurants and you're in and you're working seven days a week and how many

[Michael Bostic]

restaurants are there at this point?

[Lauren Bostic]

Yes, like you ought to tell Michael,

[Kevin Boehm]

the 36 restaurants, whoa, it's snarly. And they're all over the place. We're about to open in Nashville, Tennessee. We have a restaurant in St. Petersburg, Florida.

[Michael Bostic]

Why don't you come to Austin? You gonna come to Austin?

[Kevin Boehm]

Dude, we're looking, man. We've been looking at Austin for a long time.

[Michael Bostic]

It's blowing up.

[Kevin Boehm]

I know it is.

[Michael Bostic]

And you know what? We need more spaces. I think like we need like it's.

[Kevin Boehm]

Yeah, there's a discussion on one right now.

[Lauren Bostic]

Can I tell you something? For me to get a reservation? I swear to God, I just booked a reservation for April at the restaurants there. If I cannot get a reservation, I'm like, who do I have to blow to get a reservation? You cannot get a reservation anywhere in the town. If I want to go to a restaurant, I have to plan three months in advance.

[Kevin Boehm]

You know what's a pretty good name for a restaurant? Him and her.

[Michael Bostic]

It is pretty good.

[Lauren Bostic]

Well, we're rebranding. You can have it. Take it.

[Kevin Boehm]

Go open the restaurant.

[Michael Bostic]

But you know, no, there's, there's more

[Kevin Boehm]

stuff over there, guys.

[Michael Bostic]

You want to do a restaurant together?

[Kevin Boehm]

Lauren Gabbard said every couple of weeks.

[Michael Bostic]

I mean, that would probably go pretty well.

[Kevin Boehm]

Me and your dad, I mean, come on.

[Lauren Bostic]

My dad listens right now.

[Michael Bostic]

You don't even know.

[Kevin Boehm]

There's magic happening right now.

[Michael Bostic]

It's funny, my buddy that was in that business forever, he moved out there. So there's like all these like. It's funny. A Lot of the guys that kind of got out of that world.

[Kevin Boehm]

Yes.

[Michael Bostic]

Family and friends, they came to Austin now, like. And now they're, like, looking around. They're like, hey, maybe I need another place out here.

[Lauren Bostic]

So where else are your restaurants? Keep going.

[Kevin Boehm]

So we have three in Brooklyn with an incredible chef named Michael Solomonoff called Laser Wolf. That is a juggernaut in New York City. Fun story, fun celebrity story about Laser Wolf.

[Michael Bostic]

And I want you to tell me how you came up with that name. Such a good name.

[Kevin Boehm]

So it's the Dentist and Fiddler on the Roof. And so it's an Israeli restaurant. Michael won the James Beard Award for Best Chef in America. I opened that restaurant right when I was going through all that work. And it became like therapy for me. And when we opened, I said, you know what? I'm gonna go to Brooklyn for a month, and I'm gonna stay in Brooklyn. I'm gonna work every service. And so I was working every service. And when I very first opened my first restaurant, I thought, I'm gonna get a subscription to the New York Times. Made me feel cool. And Ruth Reichel was the New York Times food critic back then. And I would read her articles. And when I was very young, I took one of her articles and I went to New York by myself, and I dined into one of the restaurants that she reviewed. Cause I wanted to see if I was smart enough to have the same experience that she did. So I'm working Lazer Wolf. And the last night I was there, she came into the restaurant, and I'd never met her before. And I went to the table and I told her the story. And she goes, what restaurant review was it? And I said, it was Union Pacific. And she looked at me, and she goes, the woman next to me is moaning. That's the first line of the review. I go, that's it.

[Lauren Bostic]

She's moaning because the food's so good. That is such a good line.

[Michael Bostic]

Such a good line.

[Kevin Boehm]

So at the end of service, I put down soft serve. Cause we end the meal with a different soft serve every week. And she had told me during that meal that were the best French fries with tahini ketchup she'd ever had. And so I laid down the fries as a dipping vehicle for the soft serve. And she took a bite of it, and she grabbed me by the arm and pulled me down. And she goes, kevin, this time it's me that's moaning so good. And I was like, oh, that's cool.

[Lauren Bostic]

That's cool.

[Kevin Boehm]

And so that's a good one. I left town. And then two weeks later, Howard Stern was talking on a show that he hadn't been out to eat since COVID and that Kimmel was going to make him go out to eat. And it started as a two top, but then Aniston joined, Jon Hamm joined, Jason Bateman joined, Justin Theroux joined. And, you know, you could imagine this ten top walking in with all those huge stars. And, you know, Stern's like, six foot six or whatever. The whole restaurant stopped.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah, everyone just is staring, staring.

[Kevin Boehm]

And so the next day, that was. Picture was everywhere. We just, like, kind of exploded. And sometimes that's fun marketing in the restaurants.

[Lauren Bostic]

Yeah, that's great marketing. What does your life look like now with all these restaurants? Are you in the restaurant or no?

[Kevin Boehm]

I don't walk restaurants like I used to. Cause I walked restaurants six days a week for 27 years. That's a lot. It's a lot. So I sprint in and out of it. So when Nashville opens, I'm gonna be in Nashville a lot for a couple months, just like I did with Laser Wolf. I'm gonna work a ton of services.

[Lauren Bostic]

So you sort of massage it to make sure it's right.

[Kevin Boehm]

I do culture right. Do we need to change things? I've never had a restaurant where you build the blueprint and then you open it, and you're not like, we got to change this, this, and this. It's kind of like a play. You know, there's that. There's previews, and you do that first preview, and you're just like, well, we got to change this line, and this doesn't work. Right. And let's massage this dialogue.

[Michael Bostic]

What are maybe the top three to five mistakes most new restaurateurs make?

[Kevin Boehm]

Well, first of all, they do unrealistic performance. So they'll look at, like, the most successful restaurants in town, and they're like, I think we're going to do 11.6 million. And so. And they design a restaurant based on those sales figures. And I always tell people, I'm like, first restaurant, low budget. Don't take too much money from family. You know, do it scrappy. And the great thing is, is today's age of journalism really likes the young, scrappy restaurants. They like Blair Witch Project, man. They like something shot on a handheld camera. So pour over every plate, be super nice to everybody, and be there every night. And so people see you there. And then if that works, build the bigger restaurant. And so I think that you got to take it really personally. And if you really want it to succeed, you know, you see all these fancy chefs on TV living the glamorous life. It ain't glamour in the beginning. And there is a pay in process like a pension. And if you really want to be great, you're gonna have to pay in.

[Lauren Bostic]

How do you fire someone? You've probably fired a lot of people.

[Kevin Boehm]

Oh, man, I don't, I don't love, I don't love the firing, but I think you have to take emotion out of it and I think you have to be very honest with someone of why you're doing it. Thoughtful, empathetic, give them a real reason why it's happening and then give them some sort of hope. And so that's nice.

[Lauren Bostic]

I like that.

[Kevin Boehm]

It's like. And it shouldn't be a surprise by the time you get to the firing. It shouldn't be the quick acts. It's like we've had three sit downs. And let me tell you what the problem is. Here's what I'm trying to accomplish. I sat you down three times. At this point, I can't have one of my best customers coming in and having you wait on them because this is what's been happening. But I still have hope for it. And I want you to be better. And here's what you have to do to get through it. And I'm sorry that we're going to have to break up, but it doesn't mean we can't get back together someday.

[Michael Bostic]

This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all in one website platform designed to help you stand out and succeed online. Whether you're just starting out or scaling your business, Squarespace gives you everything you need to claim your domain, showcase your offerings with a professional website, grow your brand, and get paid all in one place. We absolutely love Squarespace. We've been talking about Squarespace on this show for years. And that's because we love platforms that get give you the ability to chase your dreams, to build your side hustle, to build your new business, to build an online hobby, and most importantly, to own all of your own content all in one place. So many of us spend so much time thinking about social algorithms and what to post, but we don't really own these platforms. We don't own the content. We're renting out the space from these third parties. With Squarespace, you can build your own website, you can build your own e commerce store, your own blog, your own newsletter, and you get to control it all without being at the mercy of this third party platform. Everything that Lauren and I have built over the last few years, whether it's our E Comm chann, our RSS fee that you're listening or watching this podcast on our newsletter, our website, we own all of those assets and then we use social syndication to promote those assets. So if you're somebody that's been thinking about building an online hobby, maybe you've been thinking about leaving your job to create a new entrepreneurial endeavor. Whether you're looking to build a side hustle, Squarespace can help you do it all in one place and cost effectively. They offer cutting edge design services and they use AI to help you build your own platform. They also use tools that you can integrate for SEO. They also help you sell content, build email campaigns, and pretty much anything you need to build an online hobby, business or side hustle. So check them out. Head to squarespace.com skinny for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer code skinny to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Again, that's squarespace.com skinny promo code skinny

[Lauren Bostic]

the real real is the place to go. I just got the most beautiful silk T shirt by Dior buttons vintage, so good. It is like delicious on the RealReal and it was half off and it's basically new. I'm obsessed. No one does resale like the RealReal. I can attest to this. I'm a shopper and I'm a seller. I do both. They drop over 10,000 new arrivals every day from brands like Gucci, Fendi, Prada, Tiffany Co. Cartier. And like I just bought Dior. They have so many good brands and some of these pieces are up to 90% off retail. I go on there all the time. You never know what you're going to find. I got this tip from my stylist a long time ago to go on and check it daily. The RealReal is the go to place for your next special piece. So if you need a dress for vacation or really beautiful shoes or you're like me and you just like to invest in gorgeous pieces that are from a long time ago, you have to check them out. The RealReal is the smarter way to shop luxury. You can refresh your closet by selling pieces. That's what I do. I am always putting my pieces on there that I don't wear that much anymore and then I am investing in new pieces that I love, love. So if you're looking to sell or to shop or to shop to sell, whatever you're looking for. They have you covered. The RealReal is the most trusted name in authenticated luxury resale with over 10,000 new arrivals daily. No one does resale like the RealReal. And now get $25 off your first purchase when you go to therealreal.com skinny. That's therealreal.com skinny to get $25 off, start shopping [e-mail] skinny quick break to

[Michael Bostic]

talk about Kion Aminos. As I read this spot right now I am currently on the road traveling in our LA office on the go and there's one thing that I never leave home without and that is my Kion Aminos. It's really hard for me to nail the diet that I have when I'm at home, so I need to make extra sure that I'm getting all the essential amino acids which is why I love taking Kion Amino so much. It's a formula based on 30 years of peer reviewed clinical research. We've had the founder of Kian Angelo on this podcast multiple times talking about all of the benefits that aminos can provide. If you're looking to maintain your metabolism and you're looking for lean muscle, better hair, skin and nail health, and easy daily protein support with faster recovery, Kion Aminos can help you do so. Like I said, they have all nine of the essential amino acids. It's caffeine free, non gmo, sugar free, vegan and third party tested. When Lauren and I are at home, we have these big jugs of Kion Aminos. We take them when we go to the gym. We put a scoop or two in our water and take them when we're training. When we're on the go, we bring the individual travel packs and again scoop them right into a water. And what I love is it's a little bit of an enhancer for the water. My favorite flavor is this mango flavor flavor. Lauren and I's favorite flavor is mango. They also have this great watermelon flavor and it's one scoop in water and you're done. And I take it before every workout, but you can take it at any time of day. Again, when I'm traveling I take it throughout the day. It fits right into an existing wellness stack and it's quickly become one of our top five supplements that we take regularly. So check them out. For me, Kion is the premium option. It's transparent, research backed, clean and easy to take every single day. All you have to do is go to getkeon.com skinny for 20% off that's getk I-O-N.com skinny I want to tell

[Lauren Bostic]

you about the charity that I am so passionate about and it is called I Stand With My Pack. They are committed to getting dogs fostered and adopted. I have been a fan of this specific charity for about five years. When my daughter was born, I met a woman named Lucy and she was helping me with Zaza and she told me all about this incredible charity, I Stand With My Pack, where they helped animals find homes that were in really bad condition. And I started following the Instagram account, fell in love with what they were doing, and then decided to partner with them to bring awareness to their cause. If you're looking to adopt or foster a dog, you have to check them out. It's I Stand With My Pack. They are accepting donations too, if you can't adopt or foster. And all of the money goes to their mission, which is to help dogs with major medical needs that are often not seen by adopters or other rescuers. Check them out. Istandwithmypack.org well, I have a friend who

[Michael Bostic]

used to work in the Michael Mina restaurants.

[Kevin Boehm]

Oh, yeah, I know those guys. I know Michael for a long time.

[Michael Bostic]

And he was telling me about, like, exactly. He was saying, basically, you sit down with someone, you tell them the same thing three times. First time it's like, hey, did you understand it? Let me know. Okay?

[Kevin Boehm]

That's right.

[Michael Bostic]

Second time, hey, let me make sure you understand it this way before it goes here. He said, third time, it's okay. I've told you. You've acknowledged you've understood, but now, now you gotta go. Basically, it's basically like three times. First time, it's on the manager's mistakes. Second time, it's making sure that what you're trying to convey is understood and expressed. And then third time, it's okay, you're just not getting what I'm putting down.

[Kevin Boehm]

In the old days, I would go into a management meeting and I would say, if we had 15 captains, I would say, guys, who's below the line? Who's the two worst? And they might say, everybody's great. If we drew a line, everybody's above the line. They were like, okay, okay, Tom and Gina are the two below the line people. And I'm like, what are we doing? Are we managing them up? Are we mentoring them? Have we had sit downs with them? Or are we going to go our separate ways? And I remember somebody who'd been on that list like six times and the Chicago Truman food critic came in and I still have the text exchange because when he retired, I read it at a party, and it was like, kevin, Phil Vettel just walked in, and I was like, fuck. And I was like, what table is he sitting at? I was like, Table 22. And I was like, I hate Table 22. And I was like, who's waiting on him? They were like, gina. And I was like, damn, I hate Gina. And so it was this. It was this whole lesson that I went back to the manager, and I was like, you know, and we kind of had to move Gina off the table a little bit, move somebody else in. And I was like, now do you understand? Understand? And he. He was not great at mentoring people.

[Lauren Bostic]

And that's a good lesson. What is your next chapter? What can we expect from you? Are you gonna open, like, a hundred more restaurants? Are you focused on, like, what you already have? I mean, you got a lot of restaurants, man.

[Kevin Boehm]

Listen, I have an incredible partner named Rob Katz, and. But more importantly, we have an incredible team of people. And, you know, my C suite, my executive partners, my shoes, chef partners. These are people I've worked with for two decades.

[Lauren Bostic]

That's so cool.

[Kevin Boehm]

Ian Goldberg was the first person we ever hired. He's worked for us for 23 years. He went from bartender to COO. I mean, it's been incredible. So Boca restaurant group's bigger than me, and we're going to open up more restaurants. I really like writing.

[Lauren Bostic]

Yeah, you're good at it.

[Kevin Boehm]

Thank you.

[Lauren Bostic]

You're very good at it. You got a talent.

[Kevin Boehm]

Thanks. I'm writing a book right now called are you sure you're not an asshole soul? And so it's a book about self awareness. But more importantly, it's a book about 15 things that I'm about to go do as an adventure. And every chapter is one of them that's going to kind of shake me a little bit, you know? One of them is, go help someone somewhere where they can't say thank you. Give away something in your life that's meaningful to you, not excess to someone else who it would mean more to.

[Lauren Bostic]

This is gonna be a good one.

[Kevin Boehm]

Hike to base camp at Everest. Are you gonna do it just because it's difficult? And so every chapter is gonna be one of these things to see how it bends me.

[Lauren Bostic]

That'll be a good one.

[Michael Bostic]

And have you started doing any of the challenges yet or.

[Kevin Boehm]

Nope, not yet. I'm giving myself 27 months to do it.

[Lauren Bostic]

Before you go, you have to tell us what your experience was on the bear.

[Kevin Boehm]

It was Amazing. First of all, I walked in and my trailer was right next to Olivia Colman. And so that was the first person I saw. And then I got to watch her do a monologue. So it was like watching Michael Jordan, you know, shoot baskets.

[Lauren Bostic]

And you played yourself.

[Kevin Boehm]

I played myself. I mean, I had a scene with Jeremy Allen White, and he's just so nice and so fun. It's a little nerve wracking because everybody's watching you. And, you know, obviously I'm not an actor, but it was fun. Chris Storer, who's the writer and director and creator, is a genius. And just, I love watching people who are really good at their jobs work like you two. And he's very quick. He moves fast and not too many takes. And it was fun to watch him interact with everybody.

[Lauren Bostic]

So if we want to watch that episode, do you know what the episode is?

[Kevin Boehm]

The episode's called Forever, and it's the finale of season three.

[Lauren Bostic]

Okay.

[Kevin Boehm]

And it kind of presupposes that Carmi and I used to work together at the number one restaurant in the world. And we run into each other in the hallway and he asks me how the restaurants are going.

[Lauren Bostic]

You've lived a colorful life.

[Kevin Boehm]

It's been colorful. I'll take it a little more in black and white.

[Michael Bostic]

Moving forward.

[Lauren Bostic]

Maybe your next restaurant can be a library in Austin and you can have the books and the food and we won't have to call four months in advance to get a reservation.

[Michael Bostic]

Open a place and then just, yeah, what's going on?

[Lauren Bostic]

You ought to open a place out in Austin.

[Kevin Boehm]

I love to hear that there's that much demand. Austin.

[Lauren Bostic]

Well, every restaurant.

[Michael Bostic]

Think about it. It's one of those cities similar to like a Miami or other places where a lot of people moved. Post pandemic.

[Kevin Boehm]

Yes.

[Michael Bostic]

And then now a lot more like a lot of tech happening out there, a lot of finance.

[Kevin Boehm]

I was about to say that one thing you have on Miami, though, is that the tech business has gone crazy there. Right? You're. You guys are top five now.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah. And like, maybe some of the, like, local Austinites would not be excited about. About me, a transplant saying this, but I feel like both my sons were there now, born there. So I feel like I can say I'm, like, local now and I've been there long enough. But, like, I. I think there's an appetite from a lot of people as the city's grown to expand beyond what was there. And there's a lot of excitement from maybe people that have never thought about being there. Before coming there, people like yourself, where they're, like, starting to look at it as, like, oh, you know, there's an appetite from the consumer base. And that maybe wasn't there before for these.

[Kevin Boehm]

Well, I've already drawn it up. Celebrity major D. Michael Bostick and celebrity bartender Lauren Bostick. Every Thursday night in Austin, Shake it

[Lauren Bostic]

with the best of them. I honestly think that you would crush there. I mean, you've got a lot going on, but you would crush there.

[Kevin Boehm]

We have a couple talks going on in Austin right now, so we'll offer.

[Lauren Bostic]

We'll stay in touch. And then you gotta come back. Anytime that you're in town, let us know.

[Michael Bostic]

Especially when the book is here.

[Kevin Boehm]

By the way, the book is called the Bottomless Cup. Yes, the book is the Bottomless cup came out in November on Abrams Press. And I've been on tour. I've done 60 bookstops so far, which has been wild and a lot of fun.

[Lauren Bostic]

And you can get it on Amazon. I got it on my Kindle and I highlighted so much of it. I loved it. I think that all of you guys will really like it.

[Michael Bostic]

So in 27 months, once the challenges are complete, you come back on. Yeah, come back on and we'll talk

[Kevin Boehm]

about it and we'll figure out if we're all assholes or not.

[Lauren Bostic]

Uh oh.

[Michael Bostic]

I think I kind of know the answer for myself.

[Lauren Bostic]

You have the fucking succession theme song on your phone.

[Michael Bostic]

It's probably a yes.

[Kevin Boehm]

By the way, the impetus for the book was I had the worst conversation. I was with my girlfriend Anya, and I had the worst conversation I've ever had with two individuals. And I came out of that conversation and I'm like, what am I supposed to learn from this conversation with these bad humans? And instead of being sanctimonious, I was just like, you know, there are parts of me that I don't like too. And how can I create some sort of system to become a better person?

[Lauren Bostic]

Louise Hay said that. Pick what you don't like about a person and see where you do the same thing.

[Kevin Boehm]

Yeah, that's right.

[Lauren Bostic]

Did you write that down?

[Michael Bostic]

What did you say?

[Lauren Bostic]

Where can everyone find you and buy the book and say, hi on Instag. Instagram.

[Kevin Boehm]

Instagram. I am Kevin Bameboca on Instagram. The book you can find anywhere, Bookstores, Amazon, you name it. And the restaurants. Boca restaurant group. It's bocagrp.com are all the restaurants. And I'm at a lot of the restaurants a lot of the time. Not as much as I used to be. But I'm still in all those restaurants and I'm soon to be. We're opening in Nashville, we're opening in Denver, and we're opening a restaurant in Chicago in a couple months with Brian Lockwood, who was the chef de Cuisino. Loved Madison park when it was the number one restaurant in the world. He came to Chicago and we're doing a restaurant with him called Gingy. And so.

[Lauren Bostic]

I cannot believe I haven't been to one of your restaurants. I need to go.

[Kevin Boehm]

I can't believe it either. You never went to Girl on the Goat.

[Lauren Bostic]

I've heard all about him. I've heard about him.

[Kevin Boehm]

There's a girl on the go here in la. We have one in Arts District.

[Lauren Bostic]

I did not know that. Or actually, I think you said that in your book. I did, but that's far away, right, from here or.

[Kevin Boehm]

No, Arts District. It's kind of a hall.

[Lauren Bostic]

Okay, well, I want to go to one of your restaurants.

[Michael Bostic]

So we're coming to Chicago. We'll do a tour.

[Kevin Boehm]

Okay, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna set up a progressive dinner for you guys where you go to four restaurants in one night.

[Lauren Bostic]

That'd be so fun.

[Kevin Boehm]

And we're gonna do a couple. We do this. We do this for. For the special people. So what do you do?

[Michael Bostic]

So you just pop in, you try one thing there, then you hop over. You like.

[Kevin Boehm]

Yeah, we.

[Lauren Bostic]

We.

[Kevin Boehm]

It's basically like about three and a half hours, but you do like 45 minutes at each restaurant. We time it out.

[Lauren Bostic]

We would love that.

[Kevin Boehm]

It's. It's really a blast.

[Lauren Bostic]

You're blacked out by the time it's over. Do you have. This is my last question. Do you have less food sales now that everyone is on semi glue tied?

[Michael Bostic]

No.

[Lauren Bostic]

Are you sure?

[Michael Bostic]

I'm sure.

[Lauren Bostic]

Do you know that I just found out that the airplane weight has gone down? Like the airplane weight because people are lighter. So it's not a weird question.

[Michael Bostic]

Who's keeping track of these stats?

[Lauren Bostic]

It was on Instagram. I saw it.

[Kevin Boehm]

It's not real. It's not a real shit. That's not a real stat. That.

[Michael Bostic]

Lauren. That. That is. You just got sucked into the Instagram.

[Lauren Bostic]

I think I'm a conspiracy.

[Michael Bostic]

Lauren's book would be. Am I a conspiracy theorist? That would be like. That would be.

[Lauren Bostic]

But then conspiracies come true. So what is that?

[Kevin Boehm]

Just FYI, guys, you'll be 17% smarter by listening to this podcast.

[Michael Bostic]

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

[Lauren Bostic]

Are you an.

[Kevin Boehm]

And yeah. Between now and next time I come, everybody figure out if you're an or not.

[Michael Bostic]

The bottomless cup. Guys, go check it out. And then, then when you get the new one, you come back and we'll talk about that one, too.

[Lauren Bostic]

And I will be going on my three restaurant tour next time I'm in Chicago. Thank you.

[Kevin Boehm]

And opening in Austin soon.

[Michael Bostic]

Yes, exactly.