The SkyePod: French Friday – Lessons from the American Revolution

Host: Skye Jethani
Guest: David French
Date: November 28, 2025

Overview

In this special French Friday edition, Skye Jethani and David French take a step back from current events to draw lessons from the American Revolution, inspired by Ken Burns' new PBS documentary. Rather than focusing solely on familiar narratives, they examine lesser-known motivations behind the revolution, the importance of perseverance and unity (or the lack thereof), the moral failings and virtues of the founding generation, and how these historic dynamics resonate with the present-day divisions in American society and politics.

Key Discussions & Insights

1. The American Revolution: Revisiting Narratives

Timestamps: 02:29–10:07

• Frontier Motivations

  • The revolution wasn’t just about “no taxation without representation.” Skye points out how access to western lands (beyond the Appalachians) and frontier ambitions were a huge, underappreciated factor:

    "A lot of it was, hey, you're limiting my financial interests and all the potential that lies west of these mountains. And we want to throw off those...fetter from the Crown so we can go pursue those dreams, right?" (08:46, Skye)

  • British restrictions on westward expansion upset colonists, including figures like Washington, who viewed the frontier as integral to their fortunes.

• Cultural Separation

  • David French highlights how the French and Indian War (Seven Years' War) sparked visible divisions in identity, strategy, and ambition between colonists and Britain:

    "Already you could see that the culture of the colonies was so different from the culture in England and that this was not a sustainable...marriage under the terms as they existed in the mid 18th century." (06:38, David)

• Pluralism and Individualism

  • Frontier survival bred a pluralistic, risk-taking, and dissident culture among colonists, contrasting with British centralism.

2. Comparing Then and Now: Modern American Divisions

Timestamps: 10:07–14:08

• Factionalism and National Identity

  • Skye draws parallels: Do Americans today care about the country as a whole, or are we sorting into factions with divergent goals?
  • David says today’s conflict is less about withdrawal than desire to dominate nationally—factions act more like colonial-era Parliament than colonial breakaways:

    "Our factions are more like Parliament and the Crown. In other words, we want to be the ones who are setting and dictating for the entirety of the continental entity." (12:18, David)

• Power Struggles and Secession

  • While secessionist movements exist (California, Texas), the main danger is trying to assert dominance, not leave the union. But when groups lose hope of dominating, civil conflict or separation grows likelier—echoing pre-Civil War dynamics.

3. Perseverance Over Power: Lasting Through the Struggle

Timestamps: 14:08–22:24

• War of Endurance

  • A critical insight from the documentary: The Revolutionary War was won through American endurance more than battlefield victories; the colonists just had to outlast the British will and resources.
  • Skye:

    "The real strategy was just perseverance. How much can we suffer and tolerate, and can we outlast the resources of the empire and its willingness to do it?" (16:19, Skye)

• Perseverance Today

  • Are Americans still resilient? French gives examples: The Cold War showed national consensus and grit, but now extreme partisans threaten consensus and sustained determination.

4. Consensus, Self-Interest, and the Power of Minorities

Timestamps: 20:26–25:42

• Diverse Loyalties in the Revolution

  • Only about a third of colonists favored independence; a third were loyalists, and a third were indifferent/survival-focused, making the Revolution more like a civil war. Many joined either side for personal gain (e.g., enslaved people promised freedom).

• Committed Minorities

  • French:

    "It's always committed minorities that spearhead revolutionary movements or ideological movements or even political movements. But their test of their staying power is their ability to bring alongside ultimately...everyone else." (23:09, David)

• Would We Be Patriots or Tories?

  • Both men reflect that, had they lived during the Revolution, they would have begun as Tories due to personality/dispositions, only shifting under perceived abuses:

    "I have this very anti-bully disposition...I would have absolutely leaned Tory to begin with." (24:31, David)

5. The Role of Character and Leadership: The “Great Man” Debate

Timestamps: 29:49–37:01

• Washington’s Unique Virtue

  • Washington’s humility—not seizing power after victory—was revolutionary in itself:

    "Show me the examples in history of the revolutionary military commander...who then says, hey, we won the revolution, you'll see me at my farm later. Right? That's not the norm." (32:39, David)

• Great Individual vs. Cultural Readiness

  • Skye:

    "Those very virtuous self-sacrificing people exist. And yet...we are in a generation that doesn't value them enough to actually put them in places of authority." (35:14, Skye)

  • French agrees, noting a decline in cultural conditions favoring virtuous leaders.

• Pain as Precondition for Renewal

  • French suggests lasting renewal may only come after enduring more national hardship, as crisis can reshape societal values and open doors to great leadership.

6. Political Dysfunction: System vs. People

Timestamps: 37:01–46:27

• The “Exhausted Majority”

  • Most Americans agree on shared civic values, but are underrepresented because primary elections are dominated by polarized activists.

• Broken Selection Systems

  • Skye and David criticize closed primaries, which disenfranchise the nonpartisan majority and allow a minority to drive candidate choice.

• Reform Ideas

  • David: More democracy (open primaries, ranked choice voting) or less (party-controlled nominations) would be better than current activist-dominated processes.

• Legal Questions

  • Skye asks whether state-run, taxpayer-funded primaries that exclude independents are unconstitutional; French argues it is poor policy, but not illegal.

7. Darker Sides of the Revolution: Slavery and Native Americans

Timestamps: 46:29–54:02

• Founders’ Contradictions

  • Skye: “The hypocrisy that was at the heart...because the slave rhetoric was used all the time by the founders...and yet, obviously, they were participating in the enslavement of their fellow Americans.” (47:29, Skye)
  • French: The Revolution’s ideals coexisted with brutal campaigns against Native Americans and slavery.

• Critical Patriotism

  • Loving one’s country honestly requires both pride and humble acknowledgment of its failures. French, recalling Al Franken’s metaphor:

    “Some people love America the way a five year old loves their mom...what we need is to love our mom the way we love our mom as an adult...I would argue it's a more authentic kind of love because it loves the true person, not the artificial image of the person.” (51:11, Skye)

8. Reconciling Heritage and Identity in Education

Timestamps: 54:02–58:10

• Teaching Hard History

  • French recounts culture war battles over books like Ruby Bridges Goes to School; opposition to such books often reveals a prioritization of racial identity over national identity.

• Personal Reflection & Change

  • French describes unlearning the “Lost Cause” narrative, advocating for education that allows new generations to absorb historical truths without enduring generations of pain.

9. Holiday Tradition Nerd-Out

Timestamps: 58:10–End

• Favorite Holiday Movies
  • French: Elf, Spirited (Will Ferrell/Ryan Reynolds), not a big movie family outside of these.
  • Skye: Planes, Trains and Automobiles (Thanksgiving), Elf, and controversially, Die Hard:

    "I get criticized for this in the office here, but I think I love Die Hard...I have to watch Die Hard during the Christmas season." (60:27, Skye)

  • Lighthearted closing about movie traditions, generational divides, and a Die Hard-themed Advent calendar.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Competing Interests in the Revolution:

  "This was a dispute between what was becoming two distinct peoples with two distinct conceptions of self interest...and distinctly different political philosophies."
  (08:56, David)

• On Grit and National Consensus:

  "Without consensus values, there's no grit, there's no determination."
  (20:16, David)

• On the Pitfalls of Activist-Dominated Politics:

  "Where we are now, which is activist control, a very small minority of activist control is really hurting our politics."
  (43:20, David)

• On Honest Patriotism:

  "Part of loving your country is knowing the truth of your country and working towards greater justice. That more perfect union, you know..."
  (48:30, David)

• On Teaching About Race and History:

  "As you're saying in my core identity, look, Christian is absolutely above American, but American is an aspect of my identity...my whiteness is not an aspect of my identity."
  (54:42, David)

• On Personal Growth and Historical Understanding:

  "I had a lot of unlearning to do in my life, to be honest. And it's been a process to unlearn a lot of the things that I was taught from child."
  (56:04, David)

Structured Segment Timestamps

• [02:29] – Context and lesser-known American Revolution motives
• [07:31] – Cultural and philosophical divergence from Britain
• [10:07] – Factions/history compared to today’s divisions
• [14:08] – Perseverance and “outlasting” as victory strategy
• [20:26] – Lack of consensus in the Revolution and importance of minorities
• [29:49] – Washington’s character and the “Great Man” debate
• [37:01] – The “exhausted majority” and broken political systems
• [46:29] – The founding’s moral complexities: slavery and Native Americans
• [54:02] – Reconciling heritage and identity, education culture wars
• [58:10] – Holiday movie chat and show wrap-up

Final Thoughts

This episode blends historical insight with present relevance, asking not just how America was founded, but what that founding can (and cannot) tell us about navigating our own era’s fractures—reminding listeners that loving one’s country means both celebrating its strengths and honestly confronting its failures, with an eye toward continual renewal.