The SkyePod - Picking Pastors & Popes with Kaitlyn Schiess

Release Date: May 2, 2025
Host: Skye Jethani
Guest: Kaitlyn Schiess

1. The Papal Conclave and Its Modern Implications

The episode opens with Skye Jethani and Kaitlyn Schiess delving into the imminent selection of a new Pope following the death of Pope Francis. Skye references the surge in interest sparked by the movie "Conclave," noting a remarkable 1300% increase in streaming:

Skye Jethani [02:08]: "...apparently there's like a 1300% increase in the number of people streaming Conclave."

Kaitlyn shares her personal reflection after watching the film, humorously contemplating a return to Protestantism due to her attraction to the drama and hierarchy of the Catholic Church:

Kaitlyn Schiess [02:08]: "...I think that's why I should be a Protestant."

This sets the stage for a broader exploration of how different Christian denominations approach the selection and qualification of their leaders.

2. Evolving Qualifications for Catholic Leadership

Skye and Kaitlyn examine how the qualifications for selecting a Pope have transformed over centuries. They highlight the shift from the Pope's role as a sovereign ruler of the Papal States to a primarily spiritual and diplomatic leader in an increasingly globalized world.

Skye Jethani [05:40]: "How has the selection of a pope changed as far as qualifications in different eras?"

Kaitlyn emphasizes the impact of globalization and rapid communication on the papacy, making the Pope a global statesman who must navigate diverse cultural and political landscapes:

Kaitlyn Schiess [07:54]: "...the Pope has both greater global concern today and thus is often treated as a kind of statesman that needs to have some diplomatic role."

She further discusses Pope Francis's legacy, particularly his stance on civil persecution of gay individuals, illustrating the complexities the modern Pope faces across different cultural contexts:

Kaitlyn Schiess [07:54]: "Part of the shift in qualifications is not just a change in what kind of control the Pope has."

3. Protestant Leadership: From Shepherds to CEOs and Influencers

Transitioning to Protestant traditions, the conversation focuses on the historically pastoral and educational roles of church leaders. Skye reminisces about the earlier expectations of pastors as shepherds and teachers, citing Ephesians 4 as foundational:

Skye Jethani [16:05]: "...leaders as shepherds and teachers, two functions that are delineated in Ephesians chapter four."

However, since the 1990s, there has been a noticeable shift towards viewing pastors as organizational leaders akin to CEOs. This evolution includes responsibilities like managing budgets, overseeing staff, and handling administrative tasks:

Skye Jethani [19:41]: "There's been a change...they want a CEO. They want a leader who can lead an organization..."

Kaitlyn critiques this trend, arguing that the corporate model may undermine the traditional pastoral functions of counseling and personal care:

Kaitlyn Schiess [21:11]: "...they're not stopping to just have a random conversation with someone who's hurting in the church that has to get outsourced."

4. The Rise of the Pastor as Entertainer and Influencer

Building on the CEO model, Skye and Kaitlyn discuss the contemporary expectation for pastors to also be entertainers and social media influencers. This dual role demands not only theological acumen but also charisma and media savvy:

Skye Jethani [20:07]: "They need to be compelling on a platform... managing that whole Persona and the Persona of our church."

Kaitlyn echoes concerns about this trend, suggesting that the pressure to entertain and maintain a public persona can detract from authentic pastoral care and scriptural teaching:

Kaitlyn Schiess [21:22]: "...to produce that result, they're not just uniquely gifted in the way this mega church pastor influencer person is."

5. Balancing Activism and Pastoral Care in Progressive Circles

The discussion shifts to mainline and progressive evangelical churches, where pastors are increasingly expected to take on roles as activists, social workers, and community organizers. While these roles can enhance the church's social impact, Caitlin warns of potential compromises in theological depth and personal pastoral relationships:

Kaitlyn Schiess [22:59]: "Maybe they're not spending a lot of time studying scripture, maybe you're not spending a lot of time counseling people."

She highlights the trend of dual degrees, such as combining divinity and social work, as indicative of this broader role expansion:

Kaitlyn Schiess [24:15]: "You can get a dual M. Div. and M.S.W. because it's not just preparing them for nonprofit work."

6. Cultural Influences vs. Scriptural Foundations in Leadership Expectations

Skye and Kaitlyn conclude by reflecting on how cultural shifts over the past fifty years have redefined leadership expectations in the church, often prioritizing societal trends over biblical mandates. This evolution underscores the tension between maintaining doctrinal integrity and adapting to contemporary expectations:

Skye Jethani [25:26]: "...over even a short amount of history, like the last 50 years, so much of our expectations for a church leader are rooted in the culture rather than in the scriptures."

Kaitlyn reinforces the idea that while adapting to cultural changes can offer benefits, it's crucial to remain anchored in scriptural principles to preserve the church's spiritual mission:

Kaitlyn Schiess [25:22]: "...there are trade offs... if you become someone who has spent a lot of their time going to protests... maybe you're not spending a lot of time studying scripture."

Conclusion

In this insightful episode of The SkyePod, Skye Jethani and Kaitlyn Schiess explore the complex landscape of church leadership selection across different Christian traditions. They critically examine how historical contexts, cultural shifts, and evolving societal expectations have shaped the qualifications and roles of religious leaders. The conversation serves as a thoughtful reflection on balancing organizational demands with authentic pastoral care and doctrinal fidelity.

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