The SkyePod: Power & Politics with Mike Erre - The SkyePod

Summary

Podcast Summary: The SkyePod – "Power & Politics with Mike Erie"

Release Date: March 7, 2025
Host: Skye Jethani
Guest: Mike Erie
Podcast Title: The SkyePod

Introduction

In the episode titled "Power & Politics with Mike Erie," host Skye Jethani engages in a profound dialogue with Mike Erie, a recurring guest known for his insights on Christian engagement with culture and politics. The conversation delves into how Christians should navigate the complex landscape of political power, emphasizing the importance of the church's role in fostering justice without succumbing to political idolatry or apathy.

Overview of Mike Erie's Perspective

Mike Erie articulates a nuanced view of Christian involvement in politics, rooted in New Testament teachings. He posits that Jesus’ proclamation of the Kingdom of God was inherently political, advocating for a society grounded in justice, equity, and mutual respect. Erie distinguishes between "power over" — characterized by coercion and force — and "power under," which is based on mutual listening and hospitality. He asserts that the church's primary responsibility is internal transformation, which in turn exerts a "magnetic force on the world around it" (05:10).

Role of the Church in Politics

Erie emphasizes that the church should embody the Kingdom of God by being a community of justice and righteousness. He argues that the New Testament does not prescribe specific political actions but calls for the church to be a transformative presence in society. This transformation is not achieved through direct political manipulation but through living out Christian values that naturally influence the surrounding culture.

“The church's responsibility isn't to transform the world, it's to be itself transformed.” — Mike Erie (05:10)

Political Participation: Voting and Beyond

A significant portion of the discussion centers on political participation, particularly voting. Skye raises the question of why Erie advocates for voting as a form of participation rather than abstaining entirely from political processes. Erie responds by highlighting the necessity of engaging in governance to restrain evil and promote human flourishing, consistent with a commitment to justice.

“Government can restrain evil. So, as people who are committed to justice, it doesn't seem a big step to say, hey, let's participate in the partisan political process of American politics, but do so only as exiles.” — Mike Erie (09:47)

However, Erie cautions against allowing partisanship to become an idolatry, where political affiliation overshadows allegiance to the Kingdom of God. He advocates for Christians to vote not out of political allegiance but as an expression of their commitment to justice and protection of the marginalized.

Historical Context: Apathy vs. Idolatry

The conversation shifts to the historical tendencies of the American church, where Erie and Skye agree that political apathy has often been a more persistent issue than political idolatry. They reference periods such as the 19th century's response to slavery and the Civil Rights Movement, where many white Christian communities exhibited either apathy or complicity rather than active resistance against injustice.

“Political apathy has marked more of the American church story than political idolatry, which we are currently seeing.” — Skye Jethani (13:45)

Erie concurs, highlighting that both apathy and idolatry stem from misunderstandings about the church's true nature as a public, socially just organization.

Practical Implications and Hypotheticals

To explore practical applications of their theology, Skye presents a hypothetical scenario involving an imaginary country, Nashvillistan, a pagan monarchy with no Christian influence. He asks Erie how Christians should engage with the ruling powers, especially when invited to take on governmental roles to instill Christian values.

Erie responds with caution, arguing that holding positions of political power often leads to corruption, even with the best intentions. He differentiates between advisory roles, which may be beneficial, and holding authoritative positions, which carry significant risks of compromising Christian ethics.

“I think history is replete with those sorts of examples where people who claim the name of Christ go within the best of intentions and become corrupted along the way.” — Mike Erie (23:30)

Skye further probes the practicality of Christians in roles such as police officers or judges, questioning the difference between individual participation in existing structures versus taking over governmental departments. Erie maintains that while individual Christians can and should serve in various capacities, institutional control by the church is fraught with dangers.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with a mutual agreement on the paramount importance of the church embodying justice and righteousness. Both Skye and Erie advocate for Christians to focus on internal transformation and community engagement rather than seeking political power as a means to enact change. They caution against both political apathy and idolatry, urging believers to participate thoughtfully and ethically in political processes to promote genuine justice and flourishing.

Notable Quotes:

“The church's responsibility isn't to transform the world, it's to be itself transformed.” — Mike Erie (05:10)
“Government can restrain evil. So, as people who are committed to justice, it doesn't seem a big step to say, hey, let's participate in the partisan political process of American politics, but do so only as exiles.” — Mike Erie (09:47)
“Political apathy has marked more of the American church story than political idolatry, which we are currently seeing.” — Skye Jethani (13:45)
“I think history is replete with those sorts of examples where people who claim the name of Christ go within the best of intentions and become corrupted along the way.” — Mike Erie (23:30)

Final Thoughts

"The SkyePod: Power & Politics with Mike Erie" offers a thoughtful exploration of Christian engagement in politics, balancing the need for justice with warnings against the inherent dangers of political power. For listeners seeking to understand how to navigate the intersection of faith and governance, this episode provides valuable insights grounded in theological reflection and historical context.

Transcript

Sky Gitani (0:00)

But what happens when the powers listen? Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Skypod, brought to you by Holy Post Media. I'm Sky Gitani. I am joined today by a very familiar face, voice, whatever you prefer. Mike Erie, welcome back.

Mike Erie (0:29)

The voice is certainly preferred. Absolutely. Compared to the face. But yes, thank you, sky, for having me. I love to be with you and so I'm excited for this.

Sky Gitani (0:38)

All right. Well, you. You are very familiar to the Holy Post audience and hopefully do a lot of people who also listen to you and Tim Stafford on the Voxology podcast. A lot of people know we're friends. We go way back to college. We've had you on many times to talk about things. You have been doing a series on Exile on Voxology, which is really about how. How do Christians think about engaging culture or the political dynamics of our culture. And it's been a fantastic series. And I've indirectly appeared a couple of times on these episodes because I've listened and then I've text messaged you various lengths of messages with questions or pushback or whatever, and you've graciously shared some of those comments on the show and then responded to them on your show. But I felt like we needed to just get together and actually talk through some of this stuff.

Mike Erie (1:25)

I'm so in, Sky.

Sky Gitani (1:26)

All right, well, I appreciate you being so. And before we jump into the dynamics and the questions that I've been mulling about listening to that series, can you take a few minutes and for those who haven't listened.

Mike Erie (1:39)

Yeah.

Sky Gitani (1:39)

Just summarize the whole thing, but give your thesis like the working model that you are addressing here, the problem you're addressing and what you believe the. The New Testament is telling us as Christians, the appropriate response should be yes, yes, yes, yes.

Mike Erie (1:59)

So it's reflecting on the fact that Jesus entered a world in which there was a culture war and there were various options for him to participate in dealing with the question of what do we do about Rome. So we've got. And you all know this, but you've got the collaborators, we've got the isolators, we've got the violent overthrowers. And Jesus, of course, did none of those things. Instead, he proclaimed something called the Kingdom of God, which part? One of our little thesis is that that is a political, social, public reality. That's not just accepting Jesus in my heart. That's like he's a real king over a real kingdom. And all of that is understood in political, economic, and very socially, you know, justice kind of oriented terms. The second point is that when Jesus proclaimed the kingdom of God, he differentiated it from the kingdoms of the world in one very specific way, namely the use of coercive power. And so along with David Fitch and others, we distinguish between power over people, which is the power of expertise or threat or violence or power under which is the power of mutual listening, weakness, hospitality. And how Jesus brought his kingdom, of course, was through power under, exemplified by the cross. And so when Paul, as one who himself has been shaped by the cross shaped ethic of Jesus, launches churches into the ancient Mediterranean world, the primary call he's giving to them is to be faithful. And that the object of his letters isn't the world's transformation, but rather the church's transformation, that as the church grows more faithful to Christ, it exerts a magnetic force on the world around it. And so the church's responsibility isn't to transform the world, it's to be itself transformed. And as it's transformed, it takes on a very similar priestly role that Israel was to take upon itself when it obeyed Torah, namely to show the goodness of the character of its God in tangible like flesh and blood situations. So when it comes to political identities in our world, we've been arguing that Jesus would not grab a hold of any of the political levers that were available in his world and ours, but rather he would invite the church to be the church. And part of being the church, of course, is because we live in a democracy, exercising a privilege and a right to tell the kingdoms of the world how they should use their coercive power, but that our fundamental identity is that of exile, namely that we are people who have no political home among the options and among the nations, and therefore can sit with the primary focus on our faithfulness and then a secondary focus on influencing culture, but only through the fact that we're faithful people. Does that kind of summarize it.