The SkyePod – Protesting ICE in Chicago with David Swanson

Host: Skye Jethani
Guest: David Swanson
Episode Date: October 10, 2025

Overview

In this episode, Skye Jethani interviews David Swanson—pastor of New Community Covenant Church in Chicago’s Bronzeville neighborhood—about his eye-witness experiences at recent protests against aggressive Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and Border Patrol activity in Chicago. The discussion unpacks the dynamics between law enforcement agencies and faith leaders, the legal and moral ambiguities of federal actions in the city, and the spiritual motivation for clergy presence at protests.

Background: Relationship and Ministry Origins

• Longstanding Connection: Skye and David reminisce about beginning their pastoral journeys in neighboring Chicago suburbs, highlighting their shared interests in racial reconciliation and ministry in diverse contexts.

  • “We were both sort of younger pastors trying to figure out ministry in suburbia and shared a lot of similar values and outlooks… and angst, maybe.” – Skye Jethani [01:09]

• David’s Background: David shares his upbringing as a missionary kid in Venezuela and Ecuador, shaping his vision for diversity and reconciliation in the church. He now pastors a multi-racial congregation in Bronzeville, a historic center of African-American life in Chicago.

  • “Bronzeville is our Harlem… Smaller, but has a similar symbolic and historical meaning to this very day. Our neighborhood continues to be majority African American… and also borders on neighborhoods that are majority white.” – David Swanson [01:41]

Key Discussion Points

Why Protest? Faith, Diversity, and Christian Witness

• Faith Roots for Justice Work: David explains his theological conviction that diverse communities are central to the gospel and church witness.

  • “It seems to me that [reconciliation] is still very much central to what church is meant to be… our witness is primarily who we are together in a way that just doesn't make sense or fit into our larger culture.” [03:27]

• Book References:

  • Rediscipling the White Church—calls majority white churches to participate in racial reconciliation.
  • Plundered—connects greed, theft, environmental degradation, and systemic racism under Christian ethics.
    • “When we take these [issues] one at a time, we miss the connective tissue… as Christians, we have ways to think about greed and theft inherent to our faith.” [04:42]

The Broadview ICE Protest: First-Hand Account

• Setting the Scene:

  • Protest at Broadview—main ICE detention center in the suburbs, a site of long-standing, low-profile prayer vigils by local Christians.
  • Recently, heightened federal activity and “staging ground for a lot of the raids happening all over the city” have drawn attention and larger protests.
    • “Faith leaders and clergy [were invited] to show up simply to be a peaceful presence in what can feel like a very volatile space.” [06:52]

• Peaceful Protest, Escalated Federal Response [07:53–09:50]:

  • 40-50 Jewish protesters singing and praying; clergy present to support.
  • State troopers professional and orderly.
  • “Honestly, it was a pretty benign scene… I thought that would be the end of it. But around 9 o'clock… you could feel something shifting in the tone.” [09:50]
  • Suddenly, about 20-30 ICE officers in fatigues began moving toward protesters, led by Commander Gregory Bovino—recognized from previous news for controversial statements about racial profiling.
    • “The commander of ICE operations here in Chicago… leads a small group of those officers over the barrier and begins coming at our small group of folks.” [11:51]

Notable Quote

“It felt a little bit like [this] was gonna be staged for some kind of video, a show of force… something like that.”
— David Swanson [13:46]

Tensions with Law Enforcement and Show of Force

• Federal vs. Local Coordination [12:19–15:08]
  • State police were orderly with protesters, “nothing but professional.”
  • Protesters did not impede facility operation: “For the couple hours that I was there, watched multiple vehicles come in and come out. None were stopped, none had to turn around…” [13:08]
  • Aggressive approach by ICE, possibly for show—especially since Homeland Security Secretary Kristine Noem was present.

Notable Quote

“There was never any instructions of, ‘Hey, this is why this needs to happen… why you’re in this space illegally.’ It was just very aggressive. Ends up… he actually shoves me a couple times backwards… says something like, ‘Don’t make me tell you again.’”
— David Swanson [17:15]

• Clergy as Peacekeepers: David’s intention was to be a visible, peaceful presence, made clear by wearing clerical collar.
  • “The only time I wear a clergy shirt is in public protest, because it’s the only visual way of distinguishing yourself as clergy.” [15:27]

Increasing Federal Aggression: The Chicago Context

• Coordination Problems [18:28–19:54]:

  • Reports of confusion between Chicago Police, state troopers, and federal agents.
  • Tear gas incidents with even local officers unprepared: “Chicago police officers… did not have gas masks at the ready, whereas the ICE officers were all masked up. …Saw footage… of police officers having to walk away, pour water in their eyes.” [21:01]
  • Community leaders and clergy scramble to de-escalate as federal and local officers have unclear roles.

• Second Protest: Little Village [19:54–22:09]:

  • David arrives at a confrontation in the Mexican-American Little Village neighborhood.
  • Local community, including ministry leaders, work with police to prevent escalation.
  • Tear gas used indiscriminately.
    • “This was my first experience breathing tear gas… police officers… had to walk away, pour water in their eyes.”

Jurisdictional Overreach and Questions of Legality

• Border Patrol Far from the Border [22:09–24:28]

  • Border Patrol (not ICE) seen patrolling even tourist-heavy Chicago areas in military garb.
  • Their jurisdiction, by law, is within 100 miles of an international border—yet Chicago is not.
    • “What I read, the justification they've been given is they've now decided Lake Michigan is to be considered an international border, even though across the lake is Michigan, not Canada, not Mexico, not anything.” [23:52]
  • Swanson: “It doesn't feel legal, what's happening.” [24:28]

• Extreme Tactics & Racial Profiling [25:34–26:21]

  • Recent midnight raid in South Shore: Black Hawk helicopters, breaking doors, rounding up every resident regardless of citizenship.
    • “There are residents from that apartment building who are citizens of the United States of America. And yet ICE captured everybody in that building. Everybody.” [25:34]
  • Reports of residents separated by skin color; US citizens among those arrested.

Notable Moment

“They rounded up everyone. …After rounding everyone up, including children, they separated black residents and brown residents, assuming the black residents were probably US Citizens and the brown ones were not. But we now have heard from attorneys, a number of those who were arrested were US Citizens, and they were arrested.”
— Skye Jethani [26:11]

Notable Quotes

• “I felt in that moment that my role was to remain as visible as possible, to comply with the orders to move backward, but to not turn and run, to not turn and flee, to not turn my back on what was happening.” — David Swanson [16:52]
• “Usually, …when other protests have become unruly or difficult, there are multiple warnings given by authorities before tear gas or other deterrents are employed… That’s not happening in these cases.” — Skye Jethani [19:05]
• “This was a unique experience… Having been to a number of protests and vigils and rallies over the years, this, this was a unique experience.” — David Swanson [18:19]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:41 – David describing Bronzeville and New Community Covenant Church
• 03:27 – David's background and motivation for reconciliation work
• 04:42 – Books and theology of systemic injustice
• 06:52 – Background on ICE facility, clergy protests, and why David participated
• 09:50 – Federal show of force, escalation at protest, Commander Bovino’s role
• 13:08 – No disruption by protesters; local police professionalism
• 15:27 – Role and symbolism of clergy garb at protests
• 17:15 – Aggressive actions and shoving by Commander Bovino
• 19:54 – Coordination failures, excessive force, and second protest in Little Village
• 22:09 – Border Patrol presence far beyond legal jurisdiction
• 25:34 – South Shore midnight raid and indiscriminate detentions

Tone and Takeaways

The conversation is reflective, concerned, and deeply pastoral. Swanson’s narrative and Jethani’s questions highlight the confusion and ethical crises facing communities, local clergy, and law enforcement when federal authorities act with little transparency or coordination. Both men articulate the necessity of Christian witness amid racial and systemic injustice—but also the very real risks and ambiguities of standing present in the midst of conflict.