The SkyePod - Ryan Burge

Host: Skye Jethani
Guest: Ryan Burge, Political Science Professor at Eastern Illinois University
Release Date: February 7, 2025

Introduction

In this episode of The SkyePod, host Skye Jethani engages in an insightful conversation with Ryan Burge, a political science professor renowned for his expertise in religious statistics and information. The discussion delves deep into the burgeoning trend of non-denominationalism in the United States, exploring its causes, regional impacts, and broader societal implications.

Guest Background

Ryan Burge is a prominent figure in religious statistics, frequently quoted in major media outlets like The New York Times and CNN. His ability to analyze and interpret complex religious trends has made him a sought-after commentator in academic and public circles.

The Rise of Non-Denominationalism

Personal Anecdote: Identifying Non-Denominational Entities

Burge opens the discussion with a relatable story about misidentifying a non-denominational establishment as a church:

Ryan Burge [03:31]: "Ascend. That's all it said. And my wife, God love my wife... She thought it was a church."

This anecdote sets the stage for understanding the ambiguous nature of non-denominational entities, often blending into mainstream commercial settings.

Statistical Trends and Surpassing Traditional Denominations

Burge highlights a significant shift in religious affiliations:

Ryan Burge [05:18]: "Non denominational churches surpassed the United Methodist Church about 20 years ago in attendance, and they surpassed the Southern Baptist Convention about 15 years ago."

He emphasizes that non-denominationalism is now the largest category beyond Roman Catholicism in the U.S., marking a pivotal change in the religious landscape.

Regional Distribution of Non-Denominational Churches

The conversation moves to the geographical spread of non-denominational churches:

Ryan Burge [09:06]: "Florida is like dead center for all kinds of things... most rapidly growing counties... outer edge."_

He notes that growth is concentrated in states experiencing population booms, such as Florida, the Carolinas, Ohio, California, and the Pacific Northwest, aligning with areas of significant demographic changes.

Reasons Behind the Growth

Anti-Institutionalism

Burge attributes the rise of non-denominational churches to a broader anti-institutional sentiment:

Ryan Burge [11:26]: "If I could use one word, it would be anti institutionalism."

He discusses how modern congregants favor local accountability and independence over hierarchical denominational structures.

Seeker-Sensitive Movement and Organizational Models

Tracing the roots back to the 1980s, Burge discusses the influence of leaders like Rick Warren and Bill Hybels:

Ryan Burge [12:54]: "They knocked on doors in those neighborhoods and communities said what do you want in church... that has been replicated by non denominationals."

This bottom-up approach, focusing on community needs rather than strict doctrinal adherence, has been pivotal in the growth of non-denominational congregations.

Accountability and Local Structure

The emphasis on local governance in non-denominational churches fosters a sense of ownership and direct accountability among members:

Ryan Burge [15:30]: "If you're part of a denomination, a chunk of that goes to a head office... But if you're part of a non-denom, your money stays local."

This transparency contrasts with denominational models, where funds are often centralized and loosely managed.

Political Independence Parallel

Drawing parallels with political trends, Burge connects the rise of non-denominationalism to increasing political independence:

Ryan Burge [16:45]: "Growing number of people call themselves nothing in particular when it comes to religion... they're also more likely to say they're politically independent."

This reflects a broader societal shift towards individualism and skepticism of large institutions.

Sociological Over Theological Factors

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on the primacy of sociological factors over doctrinal ones in church growth:

Ryan Burge [22:45]: "It's more sociological than theological... People are thinking about the social aspect... not just how well you preach."

Burge argues that the success of non-denominational churches lies in their ability to create engaging, community-focused environments rather than strictly adhering to doctrinal teachings.

Implications and Concerns

Impact on Doctrine and Discipleship

While non-denominational churches thrive, there are concerns about the depth of theological teaching:

Ryan Burge [25:18]: "The sermon stays very surface level... Discipleship does not."

This could lead to a lack of deep theological understanding among congregants, as emphasis is placed on social engagement over doctrinal education.

Engagement with Demographics

Burge highlights that younger generations and new populations in growing areas are more inclined towards non-denominationalism, potentially reshaping religious affiliations for decades to come.

Sociopolitical Consequences

The decline in institutional religious affiliations parallels declining political party affiliations, which Burge suggests could have significant implications for democratic engagement and societal cohesion.

Conclusion

Ryan Burge provides a nuanced analysis of the rise of non-denominational churches in the United States, attributing it to anti-institutional sentiments, effective community engagement, and a focus on local accountability. While this trend signifies a shift towards more personalized and socially engaging religious experiences, it also raises questions about theological depth and the future of institutional religious structures. The conversation underscores the complex interplay between societal trends and religious affiliations, offering valuable insights for both religious leaders and sociologists.

Notable Quotes

• Ryan Burge [01:37]: "It's about as cool as it gets, I feel like."
• Ryan Burge [05:26]: "Every one of those churches wants to be unique, but they're using the same tropes over and over again."
• Ryan Burge [12:54]: "God told me to plant a church and here I am."
• Ryan Burge [16:45]: "They're the least politically engaged, quote unquote religious group in America today."
• Ryan Burge [22:53]: "The number one reason why people left church is because they moved."

This comprehensive discussion between Skye Jethani and Ryan Burge offers valuable perspectives on the evolving landscape of American Christianity, highlighting the shift towards non-denominationalism and its broader societal implications.