The SkyePod - SkyeDive: Teaching the World to Sing

Summary

Podcast Summary: The SkyePod - SkyeDive: Teaching the World to Sing

Podcast Information

• Title: The SkyePod
• Host: Skye Jethani
• Description: Get a peek inside Skye's mind. Full episodes can be found at holypost.com/skyepod
• Episode: The SkyePod - SkyeDive: Teaching the World to Sing
• Release Date: January 3, 2025

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Introduction

In the January 3, 2025, episode of The SkyePod, host Skye Jethani delves into a profound exploration of consumerism's influence on American Christianity through the lens of his own experiences and reflections. Titled "SkyeDive: Teaching the World to Sing," the episode centers around a pivotal chapter from Skye's first book, The Divine Commodity. Joining him is Phil Vischer, co-host and collaborator, as they navigate the intricate relationship between faith, culture, and the pursuit of grandiosity within ministry work.

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Context Setting: An Unplanned Episode

The episode begins with an candid moment as Skye admits forgetting to prepare a new podcast episode, leading to an improvised discussion between him and Phil Vischer. This spontaneity sets the tone for an authentic and introspective conversation about their ministry journey and the underlying motivations that drive their work at Holy Post Media.

[00:32] Skye Jethani: "I forgot that we didn't have a Skypod episode prepared for this week."

Their improvisation leads them to discuss the contents of chapter nine from Skye's book, setting the stage for a deep dive into the themes of consumerism and its impact on Christianity.

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Exploring Chapter Nine: "Teaching the World to Sing"

Synopsis of the Chapter

Chapter nine, titled "Teaching the World to Sing," serves as a critical examination of how consumerist values have permeated American Christianity. Skye reflects on the desire for ministries to achieve grandiose impacts, often at the expense of humility and genuine spiritual outreach. He uses the metaphor of teaching the world to sing to illustrate the harmonious yet potentially superficial approach that consumerism encourages within religious institutions.

Coca-Cola's Cultural Influence

A significant portion of the chapter is dedicated to analyzing Coca-Cola's strategic incorporation of evangelical zeal into its marketing tactics. Skye recounts the creation of the iconic "I'd like to teach the world to sing" commercial, highlighting how corporate strategies often mirror religious evangelism to achieve widespread influence.

[04:27] Phil Vischer: "The chapter is called Teaching the World to Sing, and it begins with a quote from Vincent Van Gogh."

The narrative intertwines the commercialization of faith-based messages and the quest for universal appeal, questioning the authenticity and long-term spiritual impact of such endeavors.

Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ" Marketing

Further, Skye discusses Mel Gibson's marketing strategy for The Passion of the Christ, emphasizing the collaboration with churches to promote the film. This partnership exemplifies the commodification of religious experiences, where spiritual events are leveraged for commercial success rather than genuine faith-based engagement.

[14:30] Phil Vischer: "The Passion of the Christ became the eighth largest grossing movie in history, pocketing over $600 million."

Skye critiques the effectiveness of such strategies, citing research that shows minimal direct evangelistic impact despite significant financial gains.

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Insights and Discussions

The Allure of Grandiosity in Ministry

Skye and Phil engage in a reflective dialogue about the inherent desire within ministries to achieve substantial growth and widespread influence. They question whether this pursuit aligns with genuine spiritual objectives or if it succumbs to consumerist pressures that prioritize quantity over quality.

[04:09] Phil Vischer: "It'll help as you think about the new year... what you want to be a part of."

They explore the tension between maintaining humility and striving for expansive impact, suggesting that the latter often leads to compromised values and unsustainable practices.

Phil Vischer's Personal Journey with Big Idea Productions

Phil shares his personal narrative regarding the rise and fall of Big Idea Productions, the company behind VeggieTales. He reflects on the initial ambition to create a "Christian Disney" and the subsequent downfall caused by overambitious growth strategies.

[17:38] Phil Vischer: "Impact is everything. How many kids did you invite to Sunday school? How many souls have you won?"

This introspection serves as a cautionary tale about the dangers of equating financial success and market dominance with spiritual effectiveness.

The Megachurch Phenomenon

The discussion extends to the phenomenon of megachurches, which epitomize the consumerist model within religious institutions. Skye and Phil analyze how megachurches emphasize growth and popularity as indicators of legitimacy, mirroring corporate branding strategies.

[19:15] James Twitchell Quote: "In a consumer culture, a product's perceived value is directly proportional to the number of people it impacts."

This critique underscores the challenge of maintaining authentic faith practices amidst pressures to conform to societal standards of success.

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Notable Quotes and Attributions

• Vincent Van Gogh on Humility:

  [04:27] Phil Vischer: "Christ labored for 30 years in a humble carpenter shop to fulfill God's will. And God wills that in imitation of Christ, man should live and walk humbly."

• Phil Vischer on Ministry Goals:

  [04:10] Sky Jethani: "We want to approach this work faithfully and obediently rather than with grandiosity."

• Mel Gibson's Marketing Pitch for The Passion of the Christ:

  [14:00] Paul Lauer: "The Passion has the potential to spiritually impact millions of people if your church participates in marketing the film."

• James Twitchell on Megachurch Success:

  [19:40] Skye Jethani: "Growth has become both the goal and the product they're selling."

• Phil Vischer Reflecting on Big Idea's Failure:

  [22:00] Phil Vischer: "I'd grown up drinking a dangerous cocktail, a mix of the Gospel, the Protestant work ethic."

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Conclusions and Reflections

In "Teaching the World to Sing," Skye Jethani and Phil Vischer offer a nuanced critique of the commercialization of ministry within American Christianity. They argue that the pursuit of grandiose impact often undermines the authentic, humble outreach that faith-based initiatives should embody. Through personal anecdotes and analytical discourse, the episode challenges listeners to reassess their motivations and strategies in ministry work.

The conversation emphasizes the importance of balancing ambition with humility, suggesting that genuine spiritual growth cannot be measured solely by numerical success or widespread recognition. Instead, it calls for a return to foundational values that prioritize meaningful engagement over superficial popularity.

[21:50] Skye Jethani: "The gospel and the church selling it cannot be legitimate if it is only bought by a select few."

This episode serves as a poignant reminder of the inherent dangers in equating faith with consumerist ideals, urging listeners to seek a more profound and sustainable approach to ministry and spiritual outreach.

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Final Thoughts

The SkyePod episode "SkyeDive: Teaching the World to Sing" offers a thought-provoking examination of the intersection between consumerism and faith-based ministry. Through introspective dialogue and critical analysis, Skye Jethani and Phil Vischer encourage listeners to reflect on the true purpose and methods of their spiritual endeavors, advocating for a more humble and authentic approach to making a meaningful impact in the world.

Transcript

[Phil Vischer]

But there is a less incriminating reason why we are attracted to the Daisy Cutter Doctrine. Hello and welcome to the Sky Pod.

[Sky Jutani]

I'm Sky Jutani.

[Phil Vischer]

This podcast is brought to you by Holy Post Media.

[Sky Jutani]

And it is, what is it?

[Phil Vischer]

January 3rd. This is coming out.

[Sky Jutani]

So Happy New Year, everybody.

[Phil Vischer]

Hope you had a great holiday season.

[Sky Jutani]

I had a wonderful time with my family and most of the team has been off for Christmas and New Year's. I'm in the office alone today and I have a true confession. I forgot that we didn't have a Skypod episode prepared for this week, and.

[Phil Vischer]

So I scrambled a day or two.

[Sky Jutani]

Ago to figure out, well, what are.

[Phil Vischer]

We going to do?

[Sky Jutani]

And no one else is around to.

[Phil Vischer]

Kind of record with me. I thought maybe I would do a.

[Sky Jutani]

Best of 2024, like my favorite books.

[Phil Vischer]

That I read in 2024, but then.

[Sky Jutani]

It'S going to take too much work.

[Phil Vischer]

Then I thought, well, maybe I'll just read a part of one of my favorite books.

[Sky Jutani]

I can't do that because there's copyright issues. I can't just give away huge chunks of the book, even in an audio form. And then it came to me that.

[Phil Vischer]

Maybe I'll read one of my books, an excerpt from one of them that.

[Sky Jutani]

Most people have not heard, because it's.

[Phil Vischer]

A book that most people haven't read. So what came to mind was a.

[Sky Jutani]

Section of my first book, the Divine.

[Phil Vischer]

Commodity, which came out in 2009.

[Sky Jutani]

I think it's my slowest selling or least selling book that I've written. Still one of my favorites. Thank you. If you have purchased or read it.

[Phil Vischer]

It's a weird book because it's about.

[Sky Jutani]

The impact of consumerism on American Christianity. But perhaps the strange element and the.

[Phil Vischer]

Reason it didn't sell super well is.

[Sky Jutani]

Because it incorporates the biography and artwork of Vincent Van Gogh to illustrate this. So you're taking a 19th century European artist to illustrate a 20th and 21st century American phenomenon about church and consumerism. And it's a bizarre book. I admit that it's the way my brain works, but I liked it.

[Phil Vischer]

The chapter I've chosen is chapter nine.

[Sky Jutani]

It's called Teaching the World to Sing. And it came to mind because I've been reflecting a lot about what we're doing here at Holy Post Media. We've had a really good year. I'm grateful for all the growth that we've experienced and the widening influence that our voices are having in the conversation about faith and culture in America, and grateful to all of you that have made that possible, particularly the Holy Post plus subscribers and many fans that we've met at events around the country this year. But despite all that, I hope you've heard from us that our goal is not to change the world. It's not some grandiose idea of impacting the whole world and changing things for Christ. I mean, God will do what he's going to do. But part of that's because when Phil.

[Phil Vischer]

And I became friends, friends, which was.

[Sky Jutani]

Shortly after the implosion of VeggieTales, Big Idea, all of that, he was going through a season where he was reflecting on some of the false beliefs that had guided him in the way he had built VeggieTales. I was going through a season of really rethinking what it meant to be a pastor, what it meant to be in ministry. I was seeing some of the behind.

[Phil Vischer]

The curtain realities of the American church.

[Sky Jutani]

At that time through my work at Christianity Today. And we met in that season where we were both kind of rethinking all of it.

[Phil Vischer]

So when this podcast started back in.

[Sky Jutani]

2012, we had no ambitions about making it into any significant ministry or business or anything like that. It happened organically and by accident. But here we are.

[Phil Vischer]

And so this chapter came to mind.

[Sky Jutani]

Because it's really about how those values of grandiosity and changing the world and mega impact shaped the way we think about ministry. It shaped the way Phil thought about his work. And I wanted to share this chapter.

[Phil Vischer]

With you because I think it'll help.

[Sky Jutani]

You get an insight into the way I think and the way Phil thinks. Although this dates back quite a ways and certainly predates the Holy Post, I.

[Phil Vischer]

Still think it's relevant.

[Sky Jutani]

And as we think about the future.

[Phil Vischer]

And the goals for Holy Post media.

[Sky Jutani]

This chapter shapes the way we think about those things and the way we.

[Phil Vischer]

Want to approach this work faithfully and.

[Sky Jutani]

Obediently rather than with grandiosity.

[Phil Vischer]

Maybe it's helpful to you too, as.

[Sky Jutani]

You think about the new year. Many people often set goals or what they want to be a part of.

[Phil Vischer]

If you're in ministry or part of a ministry or a church, sometimes things.

[Sky Jutani]

Can get influenced deeply by this we have to change the whole world attitude. And this chapter is a way of kind of dismantling that.

[Phil Vischer]

So like I said, the chapter is called Teaching the World to Sing, and it begins with a quote from Vincent Van Gogh. He said this Christ labored for 30 years in a humble carpenter shop to fulfill God's will. And God wills that in imitation of Christ, man should live and walk humbly.

[Sky Jutani]

On earth, not reaching for the sky.

[Phil Vischer]

But bowing to humble things, learning from.

[Sky Jutani]

The Gospels to be meek and Humble of Heart. That's Vincent Van Gogh.

[Phil Vischer]

So here's chapter nine.

[Sky Jutani]

Teaching the World to Sing the Real Thing When Bill Backer's transatlantic flight landed.

[Phil Vischer]

In Shannon Airport, Ireland, on January 18, 1971, his fellow passengers were fuming. The flight's intended destination was London, but fog at Heathrow forced the late diversion. Backer and the other passengers were required to share hotel rooms or sleep at the airport. Understandably, the jet lagged and fatigued travelers were irritated and even belligerent with the airline's representatives. The following morning, Backer, a creative advertising director working for Coca Cola, noticed a transformation. A number of the passengers who had been the most furious the previous night were now quite cordial. They were gathered in the airport cafe, laughing and swapping tails while drinking bottles of Coke. Backer had an epiphany. I began to see a bottle of Coca Cola as more than a drink, he recalls. The liquid refresher was a tiny bit of commonality between all peoples, a universally liked formula that would help keep them company for a few minutes. The following day, Backer met with two songwriters in London to write new radio spots for Coca Cola. He revealed a paper napkin with a single line written on I'd like to buy the world a Coke and keep it company. The resulting television commercial that debuted in July 1971 featured a cast of 200 young people from 20 countries standing on a grassy hill holding bottles of Coke.

[Sky Jutani]

Singing Backers song I'd like to teach.

[Phil Vischer]

The world to sing in perfect harmony. I'd like to buy the world a Coke and keep it company. It's the real thing. The song became an international hit, reaching number one in the UK and number seven on US Charts. The television ad is still considered one of the most memorable commercials of all time. By the 1970s, Coca Cola was already an internationally recognized brand, but Backer's song helped catapult the soft drinks image even higher. The scene of racial and cultural harmony on the hilltop communicated the scope of Coke's aspirations. The simple concoction of soda water, sugar and caramel coloring would inaugurate what no one had ever world peace. The grandiose, messianic overtone of the commercial is absurd on the surface, but it is remarkably consistent with Koch's corporate history. Asa Chandler purchased the formula for Coca Cola from a pharmacist in 1887 and launched the Coca Cola Company the following year, with plans to aggressively Market the drink. Chandler was a devout Methodist from a revivalist background. He drew heavily from this experience when developing sales strategies for his new soda. He believed Coca Cola's salesmen could convince the masses to embrace the soda if they possessed the same evangelical zeal and used the same tactics of persuasion as the old itinerant preachers that had crisscrossed the South. Chandler began a week long institute to indoctrinate his Coca Cola sales force. One of the instructors told the salesmen to consider themselves like the missionaries going into a foreign field, only carrying a secular religion. After completing the training, one of Chandler's soda missionaries declared Coca Cola to be quote, a thirst quenching heaven sent drinks a blessing to this sun parched earth. Chandler tapped his brother Warren Chandler, a well known Methodist bishop, to begin the morning sales meetings with prayer. And he ended the week by leading the trainees in a stirring rendition of Onward Christian Soldiers. Asa Chandler exploited his faith to do more than motivate his salesmen. He unashamedly piggybacked on missionary work to carry his soda overseas. Bishop Warren Chandler believed Cuba was an ideal mission field for the gospel. With his brother's help, he founded a Methodist mission school on the island. But Asa's motivation wasn't purely evangelical. We may be sure that commercial currents will follow the channels which education opens and deepens, he said. Herein our duty and our interest coincide. Asa Chandler quickly hired a wine merchant in Havana to be the country's first Coca Cola wholesaler. The mission to take Coca Cola to the ends of the earth which Chandler began, has succeeded by any measure. By 1990, 17 billion cases of Coke were available in over 200 countries and 80% of adolescents around the world recognized the Coke logo. That is a higher rate of recognition than the symbol of any global religion. Even more remarkably, in most developed countries, Coca Cola is now more accessible and more affordable. Affordable than clean drinking water. This fulfills a prophecy issued by Koch's former president Robert Gozeta in 1986. Right now in the United States, people consume more soft drinks than any other liquid, including ordinary tap water. If we take full advantage of our opportunities, someday, not too many years into our second century, we will see the same wave catching on in market after market until eventually the number one beverage on earth will be soft drinks. Our soft drinks. Carrying on Asa Chandler's tradition of deifying Coke by assigning the drink omnipotent qualities, Gorzade went on to say, a billion minutes ago, Christianity appeared. A billion seconds ago, the Beatles changed music forever. A billion Coca Colas ago was yesterday morning. Since its incorporation in 1887, the Coca Cola Company has used messianic zeal and evangelistic strategies to become the most recognized brand on the planet. And by the late 20th century, evangelicals were eager to return the compliment. A Passion for Growth the lights in the sanctuary dimmed as 4,000 pastors braced themselves to be among the first to experience Mel Gibson's film the the Passion of the Christ. Shunning traditional Hollywood distribution methods, Gibson was touring the nation's largest churches to market his movie directly to church leaders. As the music swelled, words appeared on the screen. Perhaps the greatest outreach opportunity in 2000 years, it's a good thing the megachurch provided stacks of tissue boxes at the auditorium's entrance. This news was so good it could bring tears to a pastor's eyes. Finally, after two millennia, the church would have an outreach tool as persuasive as Star wars, as emotionally gripping as James Cameron's Titanic, and as relevant as Harry Potter. Thanks to Mel Gibson, Christ was going to reign in the cinema. Mel Gibson's pitch to the pastors on his marketing tour was simple. The Passion has the potential to spiritually impact millions of people if your church participates in marketing the film, the logic went, if it will also reap the benefits. The strategy was the brainchild of Motive Marketing, the firm hired by Gibson to pitch his films to churches, and it worked brilliantly. The Passion of the Christ became the eighth largest grossing movie in history, pocketing over $600 million. Much of the credit for the financial success was attributed to the pastors and churches that put up Passion posters, preached Passion sermon series, rented whole theaters and canvassed neighborhoods to promote the film. Paul Lauer, president of Motive Marketing, says his company's primary mission isn't marketing movies, but rather providing congregations with tools to further their goals. So was the Passion the greatest opportunity for the church in 2000 years? According to one researcher as well as many congregations, it was not. The Post Passion research concluded that among the most startling outcomes is the apparent absence of a direct evangelistic impact by the movie. Less than 110 of 1% of those who saw the film stated that they made a profession of faith or accepted Jesus Christ as their savior in reaction to the film's content. Based on the disappointing outcomes, one would think pastors would reject Disney's attempt at the same pitch two years later. But they didn't. In 2006, after witnessing Gibson rake in the returns, the Disney corporation hired Motive Marketing to promote its Narnia film in churches. Once again, churches rented theaters, members tacked up posters and pastors preached Narnia themed sermon series. Disney even sponsored a competition offering pastors who mentioned the film from the pulpit a chance to win a London vacation. Motive Marketing is just one of many businesses capitalizing on the church's insatiable desire to make a big splash. Kingdom Ventures is a publicly traded company that makes a profit by helping smaller churches fulfill their desire to be big. From event planning and fundraising to stocking sanctuaries with the latest multimedia technology, and even supplying vetted speakers and performance artists, Kingdom Ventures knows how to draw a crowd to Church. In March 2003, after declaring a 285% growth in revenue, the company announced its new business model to become the driving force behind the growth of churches and other faith based organizations. End quote. Apparently the spirit of God would be taking a supporting role. All of this begs the question, why is the church so susceptible to pitches and products promising big impact? Part of the answer lies with consumerism's bent toward sensationalism. Despite their overuse, advertisers will affirm that superlatives sell. Every business wants its product to be the most prescribed, most trusted, most watched, or best selling. These phrases all communicate the same thing to the buyer. Surely millions of people can't be wrong. This message eases the customer because they feel comfortably part of the crowd when they purchase a popular product. It feeds into our broken, insecure human nature that longs for acceptability. As a result, in a consumer culture, a product's perceived value is directly proportional to the number of people it impacts. Popularity not only equals success, it also equals legitimacy. According to advertising expert James Twitchell, this is the genius behind the success of megachurches. In old time denominations, he says. Growth was not proof of value. Stability was. But in a consumer culture that has radically changed. Today, megachurches concentrate on what makes the brand powerful. Growth. What you sell is the perception that whatever it is you are selling is in demand. This helps explain why churches will repeatedly buy into plans promising big impact. The gospel and the church selling it cannot be legitimate if it is only bought by a select few. Continual growth and expanding impact is how we've come to define success. Among evangelical churches. Growth has become both the goal and and the product they're selling. Pastors Tim Stephens and Tony Morgan outline this belief in their book Simply Strategic Growth in a chapter titled Bigger Is Better. They write that a church should always be bigger than it was. It should be constantly growing. And they firmly believe that bigger is what God intended for his church. Consider Jesus Ministry on earth. Wherever he went, growing crowds gathered to hear what he had to say, end quote. Stevens and Morgan seem to have forgotten that Jesus earthly ministry ended with only a handful of followers remaining. Everyone else had either abandoned or betrayed him. By a strictly quantitative measure, Jesus ministry was a failure. But that is a minor detail. What's most important is that a local church, like the consumer capitalist culture around it, opens new markets, expands its impact and grows continuously. How could a church shaped by these values not be excited by a product promising to be the greatest growth opportunity in two millennia? Some might see the Passion's marketing pitch as grandiose, but apparently most churches did not. It may be absurd to claim a soft drink can be the font of world peace, or for Volvo to say its cars can not only help save your life, but help save your soul as well, end quote. But the impact of Coca Cola or Volvo ought to pale in comparison to the most legitimate and superlative product of all, God. Grandiosity is justifiable, even required, when you are selling the Almighty. After all, he really is the best impact man in 1990, a 24 year old computer animator named Phil Vischer sat in his Chicago apartment spare bedroom working on his pet project, correction, his vegetable project. On his monitor, a CG cucumber with expressive eyes and a single tooth grinned back at his creator. Phil Vischer had given life to what would become the best selling line of Christian children's videos in history. Veggietales, Bob the Tomato and Larry the Cucumber became the mascots of Phil's Christian animation studio, Big Idea Productions. As the business grew, Vischer recognized there was enormous interest in the clever storytelling, silly songs and biblical values espoused by his troupe of Protestant produce. Before Big Idea, Christian entertainment for children was woefully behind the times. There was nothing to compete with the emerging world of music videos and cable television, but computer animation. Now that was cutting edge technology. VeggieTales was positioned to make a huge impact on children's entertainment. Vischer believed that his role here on earth was to dream up amazing things to do for God. If my dreams were selfless, God would make them all come true. My impact would be huge. The world would change. When his evangelical desire for impact was finally paired with business strategies, Vischer was ready to compose a bhag big hairy, audacious goal for his studio. Big Idea's goal was to be the most trusted of the top four family media brands within 20 years. As Vischer translated it, he wanted his company to become the Christian Disney to aim for anything less would be dishonoring to God, he explains. The Christians my grandparents admired, D.L. moody, R.G. letourneau, Bill Bright were fantastically enterprising the Rockefellers of the Christian world. Occasionally I would read about different sorts of Christians that would confuse me, like, say, Mother Teresa. Mother Teresa seemed like a great woman, but her approach struck me as highly inefficient. I mean, she was literally feeding the poor one at a time. Didn't she see that her impact would be much greater if she developed some sort of system for feeding the poor that could be franchised around the world? She could be the Ray Kroc of world hunger. Wouldn't that be better? Vischer set Big Idea on a course of rapid growth. By 1999, the company that had started with a smiling cucumber in Vischer's spare bedroom had grown to become the second largest producer of children's videos on the planet. Then the bubble burst. Big Idea's exponential growth had compromised the company's financial footing. Expenses to produce its first feature film were skyrocketing, and a lawsuit filed by one of its video distributors was looming. Vischer's dream of building a Christian Disney that would impact the world for God was slipping through his fingers. As his company began to lay off employees and tighten its belt, Vischer began to question the belief system that had fueled his ministry aspirations. God would never call us from greater impact to lesser impact. Impact is everything. How many kids did you invite to Sunday school? How many souls have you won? How big is your church? How many videos, records, books have you sold? How many people will be in heaven because of your efforts? Impact man. By 2003, the ride was over. Big Idea Productions filed for bankruptcy and was auctioned by the courts to the highest bidder. Vischer had lost his company and his dream during Big Idea's postmortem. He dedicated a lot of time to reflection, prayer, and reading Scripture. What went wrong? Why had God killed his dream? During this season, he questioned the authenticity of his own faith tradition. The more I dove into Scripture, the more I realized I had been deluded. I'd grown up drinking a dangerous cocktail, a mix of the Gospel, the Protestant work ethic.

[C]

Don't worry, this is not the end of the episode. There's actually plenty more. But to listen to the rest, you need to be a Holy Post plus subscriber. So head over to holeypost.com skypod and sign up for just $5 a month. Not only will you get uninterrupted episodes of the Skypod, which means you'll never.

[Sky Jutani]

Have to hear this dumb announcement again.

[C]

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