Sky Gitani (0:00)

Don't, you know, smoke or chew or date girls that do and all. It's pragmatism. Hello and welcome to the Sky Pod, brought to you by Holy Post Media. I'm, of course, Sky Gitani, and today we are doing a skydive episode that is an episode where it's just me. I am talking, I'm monologuing about something on my mind. And today it's a really important episode, at least for me, because what I'm talking about is a project I've been thinking about and working on for almost six years, and it's finally coming to light. I'm launching a new book that we're debuting today that we're talking about because it's going to be released through Holy Post. And it's unlike anything I've ever written, unlike anything Holy Post has ever done before. And we thought the best place to reveal this project is is here on the Skypod. So I hope you'll join me with this project. And it's going to be different. So let me kind of explain to you first what the project is, and then I want to spend most of this skydive looking at the background of what got me to this place with this book and this project and why it's structured the way it is. So the book is called the World Born in Letters to a New Generation of American Christians. And the background of this is I'm releasing the book, unlike other books I've done, I think this is now book 13, if I'm not mistaken, and if you don't count some of the ebooks I wrote, which, I guess I don't know, makes it maybe book 15 one way or the other. But most of those other books were released as traditional books through a publisher. You buy it at Amazon or wherever you get your books. This thing we're doing differently because the World Born in youn is going to be released exclusively on Holy Post plus as a serial, meaning I'm going to be releasing a chapter every month starting in June through the end of the year. And if you are a subscriber to Holy Post plus, you will have access to those chapters as they come out. Right now, I think as of today, Friday is it the 24th, that this episode comes out? Friday 24th May, the introduction to the book will be available at holypost.com for everyone for free, whether you are a subscriber or not. But then in June, when chapter one comes out, that chapter, and then in July, chapter two, and through the rest of the year, Those chapters are going to be exclusively for Holy Post plus subscribers at the $10 level or higher. So if you're not a Holy Post subscriber, Holy Post plus subscriber, or you want to increase your subscription to the $10 level to get access to the book, you can do that. We're actually offering a discount right now using the promo code book, you can get a 20% discount on Holy Post plus so you can engage with the book. The other thing that's going to be different is other than releasing it a chapter at a time as a serial on Holy Post plus, we're also going to be releasing related materials. So I've done a number of sermons based on content from this book that we're going to be posting at Holy Post Plus. And every month I'm going to be doing a live stream where I can interact with you. After you've read the chapter, we can have a discussion about it as I'm in the process of writing the next chapter. That's the other thing that's kind of weird about this project. Even though I've outlined this book and I've been thinking about this book since 2019, I haven't actually written it yet. In fact, I just came down from my office where I'm working on the end of chapter one, which comes out in like a week and a half. So I'm going to be writing this book throughout the year as you are reading it and as we are interacting about it. And that makes this an entirely new kind of writing project for me, a different way of doing a book and certainly a different way of publishing and releasing the book. So that's kind of, you know, the headline of the whole thing. The book is called the World Born in youn Letters to a New Generation of American Christians. It's going to be on Holy Post Plus, a chapter at a time. Hope you will sign up. Go to HolyPost.com, use the promo code BOOK to get your 20% discount, and join me on this journey of writing this book and engaging with it. Now, you're probably wondering, well, what on earth is this book about? And that's what I really want to spend the majority of this skydive talking about. And there are three. I don't know what to call them, three threads, three streams, three sources that kind of inspired me to write this book. And I want to take time to kind of unpack each of them. And in the process, it'll help you get an idea of what this book is all about. So the first thread of this book is just my. My reflections on where the American church is right now, which is why the subtitle of the book is Letters to a New Generation of American Christians. I first started thinking about this book and actually writing it, the first draft of it, in November of 2019. So here's the background. I was in Hawaii, of all places. I was speaking in Hawaii for a week, and it was a ministry that I've spoken at before. And in the past, my wife has gone with me because, you know, who wouldn't want to take their wife to Hawaii for a week where I was speaking and teaching in the mornings and then had all afternoon and evening free. So we had done that before. But this trip in 2019, I forget the circumstances, but my wife wasn't able to come with me kind of late. I had originally agreed to do it because I thought she was going to come with me, but then she couldn't. So I found myself in Hawaii by myself for the week, and I was speaking and teaching every morning, and then I had nothing to do in the afternoons and evening. And so I would regularly go to the beach or to a restaurant or, you know, an outdoor cafe in this beautiful setting. And I was really reflecting on this whole issue of where's the American church at right now? We were a couple years into the first Trump administration. We had seen all the strange changes that were taking place in American, especially evangelical, subculture. And so I started writing a chapter that became the first draft of this book in Kona in Hawaii. And at that time, my thought was, well, we really need to rethink what it is means to faithfully live as a follower of Jesus in these really weird, changing times. Politically, culturally, demographically, morally. Everything was up in the air. And I was also feeling a sense that historic evangelicalism, at the time that I had been shaped in largely in my young adult and adult years, was surrendering very quickly to the forces of fundamentalism. The kind of evangelicalism that I was familiar with, sort of the Harold Aucingay, Billy Graham, Carl Henry, Christianity Today, Wheaton College kind of evangelicalism was not that dominant in American society anymore. And even though the term evangelicalism was still being thrown around a lot, it looked a lot more like Southern fundamentalism. Phil and I have talked about this dynamic on the Holy Post podcast for years. And so I was wrestling with all that. And the third piece of it in. In that time, anyway, that was on my mind was the realization that my own strange, unique family background had equipped me to navigate some of these Things perhaps in a way that other Christians of my age weren't as equipped to deal with. Here's what I mean. I grew up in a family of incredible diversity. I've talked about this in some other places. Religious diversity, ethnic diversity, cultural diversity, a family of immigrants and native born Anglo Americans. And I had to navigate those realities since the time my earliest memories. I also came from a family and a diversity where change was not seen as threatening and pluralism was not seen as dangerous or threatening. And that's kind of indigenous to who I am. And then I also had a long history, at least since I was a teenager and young adult, of knowing how to maintain committed, loving relationships with people that didn't share my faith and didn't share some of my values and convictions. And I felt like all that's exactly what the church is dealing with in America more broadly. Increasing diversity, significant pluralism, and living in community and in cooperation with people that don't share our faith and convictions, and not having to view that as dangerous or threatening, but maybe even in some cases as a blessing. So in that early draft of this book six years ago, I was thinking through the changes in the American church, my own story of faith formation and upbringing and how those things can meld together to perhaps illuminate and give some wisdom to the church in this moment we're in. And that's when I started first noodling on this book idea. I'll get into the other two big significant threads in a minute, but I want to go deeper into this because those elements are still present in what the book has now become. Six years later. The World Born in youn is my attempt to try to address these dynamics in the present American church and to paint a pathway for how we navigate these things without resorting to fear and anger and threat and power grabs and all that sort of stuff. Since 2019, when I first was noodling on this idea, obviously a lot's happened. One of the reasons I didn't pursue the book then is if you remember your history, it was only two months later, in January of 2020, that we started hearing the first rumors about this virus that was spreading in Asia. And by February and March, I, I kind of put a pause on this book idea because the whole world was shut down in a global pandemic. And then it was also the summer of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter and all the race dynamics that were happening in this country. And I just thought, here I am trying to write a book about how to navigate the future of Christianity in America. And. And I'm like, I don't even know what the future of America is, let alone the church in America. So I just thought, let's see what happens with this pandemic and with this moment in our history and I'll come back to this project. So I put that idea on hold. And if you followed my work, you know that what I did instead for the last five years is I wrote five books in the what if Jesus Was Serious series. And so with those books now behind me, I came back to this idea and it's changed and morphed. I'll explain how, but in those intervening five years, I think some of the dynamics I was first picking up in 2019 have only grown stronger. One of the more vivid ways of describing that is what Aaron Ren has described as negative world. Again, we've talked about this on the Holy Post to some extent. Aaron Ren has come out with this framework that says in the 20th century, through the 19, I think, 90s, Christianity in America he describes as positive world. In other words, the culture was generally positively predisposed to Christian beliefs, values, morality. And to be a Christian in America was not something met with resistance. And then he says, we moved into this neutral world in the late 90s, into the early 2000s, where being a Christian wasn't negative, it wasn't positive, it was just kind of in this limbo stage. And then he identifies 2014 and as when America shifted into negative world happened to coincide with the Supreme Court ruling that legalized same sex marriage. And now he says, we live in negative world, and it requires a completely different set of tactics for how we engage with the society, with politics, with culture, with our neighbors who are not Christians. It goes without saying that I don't agree with Aaron Ren's categories. I don't think his prescription for how to live in negative world is entirely correct. But I understand why a lot of people do. Aaron Ren's categorization and the people who affirm it are very often the same people who look at the ministry and posture of Tim Keller and argue that he was wrong, that Tim Keller's sort of winsome Christianity, his engagement with his culture in Manhattan, with this very secular kind of elite America, is no longer the right way to do it. And I think the reason why some people gravitate towards Aaron Wren and others in his camp and why they are now shunning the posture of Tim Keller is because a lot of American Christianity, especially American Protestantism and Evangelicalism, has had a very strong value on Pragmatism, in other words, does something work? Does something? And when they look at the legalization of same sex marriage, when they look at what they describe as woke culture and the trans issue and a number of other things that have happened in America over the last number of years, they see it as not being good for Christianity or against Christianity. And therefore they conclude that the posture that a lot of Christians had leading up to these changes was the wrong posture because it didn't work. It didn't result in a more Christian America. It didn't result in Christians having more cultural, political and economic power. It didn't result in Christians taking over, you know, Ivy League schools and academia. And because it didn't work, it must be wrong. And we need to then try a different tactic. A real vivid example of this, and I've used this, cited this a number of times, was Donald Trump Jr. When he was asked about Jesus commands to turn the other cheek, he. He flat out said, well, you know, it hasn't worked. Turning the other cheek hasn't gotten us anything, I think was his exact quote. And that was his justification to argue, no, we need to fight against our political and cultural adversaries rather than accommodate to them or show them kindness. And I think that's the posture that a lot of the evangelical church in America has taken. It's rooted in pragmatism. It brings to mind a story from many years ago. When I look back on the last 20, 25 years of my experience in the evangelical subculture, I can look back and see the seeds of what we have become, or what the evangelical church has become and its capitulation to Christian nationalism and MAGA and all that kind of stuff. A lot of people were stunned when that happened post 2016. I wouldn't say I was stunned, but as I look back, I can see the breadcrumbs that were leading us here. So let me give you one of those breadcrumbs. Many years ago, at least 15 years ago, I was attending a Catalyst conference in Atlanta. For those of you who don't know what that is, I don't even know if Catalyst is still going. But at the time, Catalyst was this huge ministry conference at this arena in Atlanta. I think it was 15 or 20,000 people would attend every year, this huge arena. And I was there because I worked for Christianity Today. I was an editor and would often report on stuff that was being taught there and sessions, and it was a great place to network with contributors to the magazine, whatever. So I was there with some regularity And I remember sitting in this massive auditorium and one of the keynote speakers was doing a talk about Nehemiah. Now keep in mind, the people sitting in this arena are mostly pastors, church leaders from all over the country. And I think if I recall, the person giving this talk was a well known pastor. And Nehemiah is one of those favorite books of the Bible for people to go to on leadership principles because of course, Nehemiah came back from exile to help rebuild the walls of Jerusalem. And there's all kinds of great stuff that people love to draw from that. And this, this pastor was talking about moral authority and how Nehemiah, because of the way he lived, the, the fact that he didn't use his status and position to live in luxury or acquire special wealth or privileges, but, but associated with normal people and lived simply and did all these things in a certain way. The fact that Nehemiah lived that way among the people gave him moral authority and that, that moral authority then gave him the power and ability to lead others in the direction he wanted them to go. And this whole talk was about the practicality of moral authority and the importance of moral authority as a pastor or church leader or whatever. That's fine, that's all great. I don't disagree with that. I think if you live as a hypocrite, it's a lot harder to be a leader of people. Moral authority is a good thing to pursue. It does have practical implications. But I remember sitting in this arena with my Bible open on my lap as I'm in this text that this well known pastor is preaching from. And what stunned me was the reason Nehemiah lived the way he lived is explicitly stated in Nehemiah chapter 5, where this, the main text that the speaker was drawing From Nehemiah, chapter 5, verse 15 says that Nehemiah lived this way. And this is a quote out of reverence for God. Out of reverence for God. He did not act like the other leaders in Jerusalem. And yet this entire talk bypassed that part of the text. It wasn't about fear of God, reverence for God, obedience to God, submission to God, devotion to God. It wasn't about any of that stuff. It was all predicated on practicality. And the argument that this leader was making is Nehemiah lived this way because it made his leadership more effective. And if you were not in the text, if you didn't really read that part of it, you would have walked away from that talk going, okay, the reason I should be a moral leader is because it will result in better outcomes for my ministry and where I'm trying to lead people. That's just one example of, I think, a message that has permeated American evangelicalism for decades. A pragmatism. You do these things because they work. You lead your family a certain way because it works. It will result in children who love the Lord and are obedient and kind and who don't, you know, smoke or chew or date girls that do and all. It's pragmatism. You love your wife a certain way because it results in a better life for you. You manage your money a certain way based on, quote, unquote, biblical principles because it results in more flourishing, more money, or you're generous because of the outcome. But we have this very mechanical, pragmatic approach to faith. And if that's what you've been saturated in for decades in the American Christian subculture, what do you conclude when it suddenly doesn't work? What do you conclude when the culture is less Christian, less devoted to Christian morality, when church attendance is declining for decade after decade, when you no longer have a Christian in the White House, when you don't have political power and cultural power, when Hollywood is advocating more and more things that you think are contrary to what you want, when it no longer work, works, you are justified in throwing away the prior model. And along comes a Donald Trump or Christian nationalist or an Aaron Wren who says, hey, we're a negative world and it requires a completely different set of tactics or, you know, turning the other cheek. Yeah, Jesus may have said that in the Sermon on the Mount, but, yeah, it doesn't work anymore. And what he really wants is for us to have control and power, and therefore we should pursue these things. Like, I can understand why we are where we are in the American church and why we don't take Jesus words that seriously. Because a lot of people look at where we are and go, it hasn't worked. Therefore, let's try something different. So part of what I'm doing in this book is trying to direct people away from this pragmatic vision of the faith and a pragmatic vision for Christian cultural engagement and return us to a principled vision, a vision that says we don't turn the other cheek because it works. We turn the other cheek because it's right. We don't love our enemies because it's going to be better for us. We love our enemies because our Heavenly Father loves his enemies. We don't take up our cross because at the end of the day, we get rewarded. We take up our cross and die to ourselves because we are following in the steps of Jesus. There's a principled reason for living the way we live and pursuing the things we pursue. And I want this book to lift up that vision again of Christian cultural engagement, regardless of the outcomes, because there is a higher thing to which we are called. So, anyway, that's sort of the first thread of this book that goes back to 2019 that I've been chewing on for five or six years now, and I think is more relevant even now than it was back then. Here's the second thread, the second thing you'll find in the world born in you. And that's the story of Naaman from the Old Testament. Let me give you the background on that. During the pandemic, I don't know exactly how I landed there, but I was reading Luke chapter four. Maybe it was for with God daily, or I was doing something in my own teaching and Bible study. I was in Luke 4. And there's the story of Jesus when he goes into the synagogue in Nazareth, his hometown, and he opens up the scroll of Isaiah and he finds the passage where it speaks about the year of jubilee and the setting captives free and the year of the Lord's favor and restoring sight to the blind. And then, of course, he closes the scroll and says to his hometown synagogue, today these words are fulfilled in your hearing, which was Jesus identifying himself as the fulfillment of this year of jubilee, that he was the messianic figure who is bringing God's kingdom into the world. And what struck me, it's a beautiful passage in a lot of ways, but what struck me is after reading that text and essentially declaring himself to be the Messiah in his hometown synagogue, the initial reaction of the people was fantastic. Here's actually what Luke says. All spoke well of him and were amazed at the gracious words that came from his lips. Isn't this Joseph's son? They asked. In other words, they were excited. Their hometown boy was declaring that God's year of favor was here and that he was the person through whom it was being inaugurated. And they were amazed. They spoke well of him. They thought what he said was wonderful. And they may have been patting themselves on their back like, yeah, it's our guy, it's our home. We just have this new Pope elected, Leo xiv. I'm here in Chicago, and you'll encounter people all over the city, especially obviously Roman Catholics, who are just thrilled that one of their own is now the heir of St. Peter in Rome, a boy from the south side of Chicago who's a Sox fan. Like, people are amazed by that, and I think that gives you some sense of maybe what the people in Nazareth were thinking when Jesus had this moment with the scroll of Isaiah. But if you keep reading in Luke 4, the mood changes dramatically. This is what most people remember is that his hometown folks and his own family actually get really angry at Jesus to the point where they pull him out of the synagogue and try to throw him over the side of a cliff and kill him. So what changed? Because initially, don't worry, this is not.