1413: On Proliferation by Cass Donish

Summary

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Episode Overview

Podcast: The Slowdown: Poetry & Reflection Daily
Host: Maggie Smith
Episode: 1413: On Proliferation by Cass Donish
Date: December 16, 2025

In this episode, host Maggie Smith reflects on the complexities of grief and how poetry can be both an articulation and extension of loss. Smith discusses the often misunderstood, nonlinear nature of grief and introduces Cass Donish’s poem “On Proliferation,” which meditates on memory, presence, and the continuous act of remembering those we’ve lost. The episode is a gentle reminder of the ways poetry helps us process difficult emotions and remain connected to both the living and the departed.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Nature of Grief (01:05–03:00)

• Kubler-Ross's Five Stages of Grief:
  Smith introduces the five stages—denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance—originally described by Elisabeth Kubler-Ross in "On Death and Dying" (1969).

• Nonlinearity of Grief:
  Smith emphasizes that grieving isn’t a step-by-step journey:

  “Grief, as so many of us know, isn’t neat and orderly. Kubler Ross knew this too. She explained that the stages of grief are nonlinear. You might only experience some of the stages of grief. You might experience them in a completely different order. It's more a la carte than a five course meal.” (02:08–02:40)

• The Poet’s Response to Loss:
  Smith shares her own experience: writing is a personal stage of grieving—a way to try to “articulate that loss.” She gently notes:

  "Writing doesn’t restore who or what’s been lost. There are distances we can’t cross, things we can’t fully understand. But we try with language, and there is honor in the trying." (02:41–02:54)

Poem: "On Proliferation" by Cass Donish (03:00–05:28)

• Articulating Grief Through Poetry:
  Smith introduces Donish’s poem as an example of “articulating grief in a way I admire so deeply.” It grapples with the gap between memory and presence.

• Key Themes of the Poem:

  • The space between having someone and only having their image
  • The daily acts of remembering and connecting with the lost
  • The power and limitations of language and memory in maintaining the presence of those gone

• Notable Excerpts (read by Smith):

  “Now I'm left in the gap between world with you and world with image of you. The gap between your biological life and your so called death.” (03:30–03:38)

  “People talk about moving on, but I’m here in the fringe, in the expanse, watching for you, listening for your song.” (03:40–03:48)

  “By perceiving you, I extend you. By remembering you, I extend you. By imagining you, I extend you, actual you. I kiss you, my lips pressed flat to glass.” (05:06–05:24)

Reflection on Poetic Practice and Grief (04:30–05:28)

• Elegies as Acts of Extension:
  Smith notes elegies are as much about life as about death:

  "What we do in elegies, Poems for the Dead is write about life and about living." (03:00–03:05)

• Ongoing Relationship with the Lost:
  The poem and Smith’s reflection propose that through attention, memory, and imagination, our loved ones are continuously present—expanded in our lives each time we remember them.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Nonlinearity of Grief:

  “It’s more a la carte than a five course meal.” (02:27, Maggie Smith)

• On Writing and Loss:

  “There are distances we can’t cross, things we can’t fully understand. But we try with language, and there is honor in the trying.” (02:48, Maggie Smith)

• From "On Proliferation":

  “Every day I talk to pictures of you. I talk to you, actual you.” (04:22, read by Maggie Smith)

  “You said metonymy, when it’s good, is more than simply language. Change of name. It is ontological, it is extension, your existence. You will let us in on it if we let you.” (04:37–05:00, Cass Donish via Maggie Smith)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:05: Maggie Smith begins reflection on the five stages of grief
• 02:08–02:54: Smith critiques the linearity of grief and the role of writing
• 03:00: Smith introduces the poem “On Proliferation”
• 03:30–05:25: Full reading of Cass Donish’s poem and discussion of its themes

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Summary

This episode centers on the complexity of grief and how poetry uniquely helps us hold space for loss. Maggie Smith uses both personal reflection and the vivid, resonant poem by Cass Donish to examine how remembering and imagining our loved ones is itself an act of honoring and keeping them near. The language is gentle, searching, and poignant—encouraging listeners to find solace and meaning through attentive presence, memory, and creative expression.

Transcript

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[C]

I'm Maggie Smith, and this is the Slowdown. Most of us are probably familiar with the five stage stages of denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. This model was developed by Elisabeth Kubler Ross, who published a book in 1969 called On Death and Dying. Kubler Ross used these five stages to describe what people with terminal illness experienced when facing their own death. In time, though, the model was adapted as a way of thinking about other kinds of grief. Grief in general. When I first learned about the five stages of grief, I thought, that sure sounds neat and orderly to me. First stage one, then stage two, and so on. As if grieving a terrible loss. You might think, well, I'm in bargaining now, so I must be getting close to depression or I'm not in denial anymore, so acceptance must be on the way. As if you could hold a road atlas and see how far you have left to travel. But grief, as so many of us know, isn't neat and orderly. Kubler Ross knew this too. She explained that the stages of grief are nonlinear. You might only experience some of the stages of grief. You might experience them in a completely different order. It's more a la carte than a five course meal. As a poet, I think one of my personal stages of grief is writing. When I experience deep loss, there is a part of me that needs to try to articulate that loss. I wouldn't say that writing about loss is healing. Writing doesn't restore who or what's been lost. There are distances we can't cross, things we can't fully understand. But we try with language and there is honor in the trying. Today's poem articulates grief in a way I admire so deeply. It reminds me that what we do in elegies, Poems for the Dead is right about life and about living. On Proliferation by Cass Daunish we talked about birds, assemblages, hybrids. We talked about the gap between world with glacier and world with image of glacier. Now I'm left in the gap between world with you and world with image of you. The gap between your biological life and your so called death. People talk about moving on, but I'm here in the fringe, in the expanse, watching for you, listening for your song. I surround myself with things that represent you, things that are you. You charge my home checker, bloom paintbrush, tea towel, jewel flower and the dust of rock flower and modern bones. I think of your face, the image of your face, your actual face. Every day I talk to pictures of you. I talk to you, actual you. You said metonymy, when it's good is more than simply language. Change of name. It is ontological, it is extension, your existence. You will let us in on it if we let you. By perceiving you, I extend you. By remembering you, I extend you. By imagining you, I extend you, actual you, I kiss you, my lips pressed flat to glass. The Slowdown is a production of American Public Media in partnership with the Poetry Foundation. To get a poem delivered to you daily, go to slowdownshow.org and sign up for our newsletter and find us on Instagram slowdownshow and bluesky slowdownshow.org SA. Each day on the Slowdown we take a breath together and look closely at this world, its beauty, its aches, its small shining moments. If this daily pause has meant something to you, I hope you'll consider supporting it. Please make a donation before the year ends and help keep this space for reflection alive. Donate [e-mail] or click the link in the show notes and thank you.