1474: Epistemic Distance by Emma Bolden - The Slowdown: Poetry & Reflection Daily

Summary4 min read

The Slowdown: Poetry & Reflection Daily

Episode 1474: "Epistemic Distance" by Emma Bolden
Host: Maggie Smith
Date: March 11, 2026

Episode Overview

In this episode of The Slowdown, Maggie Smith explores the theme of "epistemic distance"—the separation between what we believe, what we know, and how we come to know it. Through a thoughtful introduction on the nature of knowledge and its relevance in our divided world, Maggie sets the stage for Emma Bolden’s poem, "Epistemic Distance." The episode delves into questions of belief, knowledge, faith, and ambiguity, connecting these philosophical concerns to daily lived experience and the ongoing search for truth.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Nature and Importance of Knowledge

Epistemology Defined:
Maggie introduces the philosophical field of epistemology, which "focuses on the nature, origin, and limits of human knowledge." She points out that epistemology asks “how we investigate ideas and come to conclusions”—critical pursuits in today’s divided society.
[01:00-01:16]
Belief vs. Knowledge:
Maggie reflects on how “to have faith in something is different from having knowledge of it,” revisiting the philosophical definition: "knowledge has been defined as justified true belief."
[01:35-01:44]
She asks: “But what's the difference, exactly?” opening up a discussion on justification and proof.
Shared Reality and Division:
Highlighting contemporary relevance, Maggie discusses growing epistemic divides in America—not just of belief, but of basic facts:

“It used to be that we differed in our beliefs, but I always felt we at least had a shared understanding of the facts…That, unfortunately, feels quaint now.”
[02:20-02:38]
Gaslighting and Media:
She describes a loss of shared reality, referencing public figures telling people not to believe clear evidence:

“We've seen video footage with our own eyes and then have not only news anchors but people in our own government, right up to the highest office telling us we didn't see what we saw—gaslighting its own citizens.”
[02:54-03:08]
The Poet’s Embrace of Ambiguity:
Maggie values nuance and ambiguity as a poet but refuses, she says, "to believe that we are living in a post-factual world.”
[03:19-03:26]
She argues that epistemology matters, now more than ever.

The Poem: "Epistemic Distance" by Emma Bolden

Epistemic Meaning:
Introduction of the poem and the titular term: “The word epistemic means related to knowledge.”
[03:52]
Poem Reading
Maggie reads "Epistemic Distance" by Emma Bolden, a poem grappling with the longing for certainty, the limits of faith, and humanity's persistent reach for understanding:

“The day all fevered and I flat out deserved it, O Lord, and I suffered heavily under its greens, under the blue of a sky that held birds under its tongue and insisted it made no secret of separateness between the earth where I stood and the up where I'd been promised a God lived. I'd like to ask not where are you? But why are you not here? The greens are pretty but they are not enough. Neither is everything I've been told about you, that the fact that I'm still reaching out and up should be enough, that faith is only faith when there's no proof.”
[04:01-05:24]
(approximate timing; poem begins right after Maggie’s segue)

Reflection & Call to Mindfulness

Poetry as a Tool:
Maggie reiterates at the close how poetry helps us "consider our own lives and the lives of others...to use that attention to lean into wonder, and joy, and truth, and to find hope—to keep hoping.”
[00:00 intro—see episode description]
Invitation to Listeners:
She encourages making room in the day for reflection, connection, and a slowing of attention, modeling through her reading and gentle tone.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Divided Realities:
"The stories I read and hear about are not the stories they read and hear about. Or if they are, the coverage and the message behind that coverage is very different."
— Maggie Smith [02:02]
On the Erosion of Shared Facts:
“We might interpret those facts differently, but facts were facts. That, unfortunately, feels quaint now.”
— Maggie Smith [02:35]
On Refusing a Post-Factual World:
“I refuse to believe that we are living in a post-factual world.”
— Maggie Smith [03:19]
On Faith and Proof in the Poem:
“That the fact that I'm still reaching out and up should be enough, that faith is only faith when there's no proof.”
— Emma Bolden, read by Maggie Smith [05:22]

Timestamps for Key Segments

[00:56] – Maggie Smith begins episode content, introduces epistemology.
[01:00–03:26] – Examination of knowledge/belief divides and their real-world urgency.
[03:40] – Introduction to the day’s poem and explanation of “epistemic.”
[04:01–05:24] – Reading of "Epistemic Distance" by Emma Bolden.
[05:24–07:37] – Episode closing remarks and production credits.

Summary

This episode asks what it means to know, to believe, and to reach out for something beyond proof. Maggie Smith draws parallels between philosophical debates on epistemology and the very real breakdown of shared reality in contemporary society. Emma Bolden’s "Epistemic Distance" becomes both a poetic meditation and an emotional response to the longing for certainty and faith amidst separation. Smith’s voice carries listeners into reflection, urging the slow, careful noticing that is poetry’s gift in a fractured world.

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Transcript7 lines

[00:00]
A
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[00:24]
B
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[00:25]
A
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[00:30]
C
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[00:56]
B
I'm Maggie Smith and this is the Slowdown. How do you know what you know when you say you know something to be true? How did you arrive there? The branch of philosophy that tackles these big questions is called imperial epistemology. It focuses on the nature, origin, and limits of human knowledge. In other words, it explores how we investigate ideas and come to conclusions. Epistemology addresses what can be known, how knowledge is acquired, and what differentiates knowledge from belief. To have faith in something is different from having knowledge of it. Believing is different from knowing. But what's the difference, exactly? Since Plato's time, knowledge has been defined as justified true belief. But this leads us down another rabbit hole or a network of rabbit holes. What qualifies as justification as a kind of proof? I've been thinking about this a lot lately. In times like these, when we are so divided as Americans, part of that divide isn't just about beliefs, but about knowledge facts. I'm sure I'm not alone in having family members whose source of news is very different from my own. The stories I read and hear about are not the stories they read and hear about. Or if they are, the coverage and the message behind that coverage is very different. It used to be that we differed in our beliefs, but I always felt we at least had a shared understanding of the facts. We might interpret those facts differently, but facts were facts. That, unfortunately, feels quaint now. We've seen video footage with our own eyes and then have not only news anchors but people in our own government, right up to the highest office telling us we didn't see what we saw gaslighting its own citizens. I'm a poet, so I'm all for nuance. I embrace ambiguity and I'm flexible in my thinking. But I refuse to believe that we are living in a post fe factual world. We might be tempted to call epistemology too abstract, too intellectual, too highbrow, not relevant to the lives of real people. Who needs to know about this branch of philosophy when we're just trying to get by day by day? But if there was ever a time to think about what we know and how we know it, it's now. The title of today's poem includes an adjective related to epistemology. The word epistemic means related to knowledge. Epistemic Distance by Emma Bolden the day all fevered and I flat out deserved it, O Lord, and I suffered heavily under its greens, under the blue of a sky that held birds under its tongue and insisted it made no secret of separateness between the earth where I stood and the up where I'd been promised a God lived. I'd like to ask not where are you? But why are you not here? The greens are pretty but they are not enough. Neither is everything I've been told about you, that the fact that I'm still reaching out and up should be enough, that faith is only faith when there's no proof. The Slowdown is a production of American Public Media in partnership with the Poetry Foundation. To get a poem delivered to you daily, go to slowdownshow.org and sign up for our newsletter. Find us on Instagram lodownshow and bluesky.slowdownshow.org.
[07:37]
D
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[08:11]
C
Apparently.