[encore] 1104: Black Book of Creation by Shanta Lee Gander

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Slowdown: Poetry & Reflection Daily
Episode: [encore] 1104: Black Book of Creation by Shanta Lee Gander
Release Date: June 19, 2025

---

Introduction

In this encore episode of The Slowdown: Poetry & Reflection Daily, originally produced and hosted by Major Jackson, listeners are treated to "Black Book of Creation" by Shanta Lee Gander, performed by guest host Chantali Gander. This episode delves deep into themes of ancestry, memory, and the enduring power of creation through poetry.

Host's Reflections and Introduction to the Poem

Major Jackson begins the episode by reflecting on his tenure as host, expressing gratitude for the journey shared with listeners. He introduces the poem by sharing insightful anecdotes and reflections on influential literary figures and the role of poetry in invoking the past to understand the present.

• Timestamp [01:33]: Major Jackson shares a poignant moment involving novelist Toni Morrison, highlighting Morrison's ability to conjure the presence of the deceased:

  "That's what happens when you talk about the dead."
  (01:33)

• Timestamp [02:00]: He emphasizes Morrison's perspective on writing as an invocation, a means to connect with ancestral wisdom and communal understanding.

• Timestamp [02:30]: Drawing from his time at Temple University, Jackson recounts a Kwanzaa program where poet Sonia Sanchez led a ceremony invoking black leaders:

  "Malcolm X, James Baldwin, Ida B. Wells."
  (03:19)

Jackson uses these reflections to set the stage for the poem, underscoring the ceremonial and evocative nature of poetry in connecting past and present.

Presentation of "Black Book of Creation"

The centerpiece of the episode is the recitation of "Black Book of Creation" by Chantali Gander, performed with profound depth and resonance.

• Timestamp [03:43]: Major Jackson introduces the poem, stating:

  "Today's poem builds on the belief that imagining is a kind of magic in time travel, that listening to the soil and all the voices within is a monumental way into both history and our future."
  (03:43)

• Timestamps [03:59] to [07:20]: Chantali Gander delivers the poem, interwoven with Major Jackson's reflections. Key excerpts include:

  • On Memory and Ancestry:

    "He said that remembering all of them becomes a chant."
    (04:12)

    "She said, I only, she said, can go this far."
    (04:17)

  • On Creation and Identity:

    "On a table three Mother sits fashioning her children Cosmic clay, stardust and obsidian for resilience, dreams for seeing and the things not contained by language."
    (04:54)

  • On Power and Vulnerability:

    "Magic, the ability to manipulate circumstance, said We."
    (06:10)

    "But, said she, as gifts are given, they can be stolen."
    (06:45)

  • On Legacy and Continuity:

    "She said, I know all the names of my mothers."
    (07:30)

The poem intricately weaves themes of creation, legacy, and the interplay between past and present, emphasizing the collective memory and the strength derived from ancestral connections.

Analysis of Key Themes

1. Invocation of Ancestry:

The poem emphasizes the importance of remembering and invoking ancestors as a means of understanding oneself and one's community. This is evident in the recurring chants and the acknowledgment of historical figures, creating a ceremonial atmosphere that bridges generations.

• Timestamp [04:12]:

  "He said that remembering all of them becomes a chant."

2. Creation and Resilience:

Creation is portrayed not just as a physical act but as a profound conversation with existence. The imagery of "cosmic clay" and "stardust" underscores the intrinsic connection between humanity and the universe, highlighting resilience and the aspirational aspects of dreams.

• Timestamp [04:54]:

  "Three Mother sits fashioning her children Cosmic clay, stardust and obsidian for resilience, dreams for seeing and the things not contained by language."

3. Power Dynamics and Vulnerability:

The dialogue between "She" and "We" explores the duality of power—its creation and its vulnerability. The gifts of creation are juxtaposed with the potential for them to be stolen, reflecting on the fragile nature of power and legacy.

• Timestamp [06:10]:

  "Magic, the ability to manipulate circumstance, said We."
  "But, said she, as gifts are given, they can be stolen."

4. Continuity and Memory:

The poem closes with a reaffirmation of memory and continuity, emphasizing that the names and stories of ancestors are not forgotten but are integral to one's identity and legacy.

• Timestamp [07:30]:

  "She said, I know all the names of my mothers."

Conclusion and Closing Remarks

After the recitation, Major Jackson wraps up the episode by reiterating the collaborative essence of The Slowdown, inviting listeners to engage with poetry as a daily ritual that fosters reflection and connection. He also provides information on accessing past episodes and encourages the audience to become part of the community through various platforms.

• Timestamp [07:57]:

  "The Slowdown is a production of American Public Media in partnership with the Poetry Foundation... to get a poem delivered to you daily, go to slowdownshow.org and sign up for our newsletter."

Jackson emphasizes the timeless and universal nature of poetry in bridging personal and collective experiences, encouraging listeners to incorporate The Slowdown into their daily lives for continuous inspiration and reflection.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Major Jackson on Toni Morrison:

  "That's what happens when you talk about the dead."
  (01:33)

• Sonia Sanchez Invocation:

  "Malcolm X, James Baldwin, Ida B. Wells."
  (03:19)

• Chantali Gander on Memory:

  "I know all the names of my mothers."
  (07:30)

---

Episode Highlights:

• Deep exploration of ancestral memory and its role in shaping present identities.
• Poetic invocation as a means of connecting past and future.
• The interplay of creation, resilience, and vulnerability in the human experience.
• Engaging performance by Chantali Gander, bringing Shanta Lee Gander's work to life.

This episode of The Slowdown serves as a profound reminder of the enduring power of poetry to encapsulate and convey the complexities of human existence, heritage, and the ongoing dialogue between what was and what is yet to be.

Transcript

[Greenlight Advertiser]

The Slowdown is supported by Greenlight. Juggling growing kids and aging relatives can be a balancing act between keeping a watchful eye and allowing feelings of independence. With Greenlight's Family Shield, you can protect your senior loved ones from scams and financial fraud without making them feel like kids. Stay on top of their finances with tools like account monitoring, real time alerts, and coverage for scam related losses and identity theft. Take care of your whole family, from kids to grandparents with Family Shield from Greenlight. Sign up today at greenlight.

[GoFundMe Advertiser]

Imagine if today was the day your idea changed someone's life. Imagine if you could help someone pay for college, help your community build a new playground, or help a child make it to that dream competition with GoFundMe. It's all possible. GoFundMe is the world's number one fundraising platform, trusted by over 190 million people every week. Ordinary people meet their goals and do extraordinary things. Your ideas matter. GoFundMe isn't just for emergencies. Want to raise money for your kid's soccer team? Or raise funds for a small business, a creative project or event? GoFundMe helps you turn ideas into reality and help adds up. Fundraisers you start for someone else raise up to five times more. So think right now. Who could use your help? Change rarely comes from waiting. It comes from someone deciding, Today I'll start. Don't wait for someone else to bring change today. Start your fundraiser in just [e-mail] that's that's gofundme.com to start your fundraiser. Gofundme.com this is a commercial message brought to you by GoFundMe.

[Major Jackson]

Hi, it's Major. As I close my time as host of the Slowdown, I'm grateful for the opportunity I've had to share poetry with you these past few years. The Slowdown has a deep store of episodes, and for the next few months we're reaching into the archive to bring you some of our favorites. Here's one from my time on the show. I'm Major Jackson, and this is the Slowdown. In an interview, speaking about an ancestor, novelist Toni Morrison coughed, then, reaching for a glass of water, said, that's what happens when you talk about the dead. It might have been unremarkable, except that Morrison is known for conjuring people in her literature. She was the first author to alert me to the notion of writing as an invocation of the past, a way to understand one's present day self and community through literature. While a student at Temple University, I once listened to various speakers on a Kwanzaa program extol values of faith, unity and collective responsibility. The poet Sonia Sanchez began her reading with a syncopated incantation of deceased black leaders into the room with us. Malcolm X, James Baldwin, Ida B.

[Chantali Gander]

Wells.

[Major Jackson]

Her chant, like performance, turned the gathering into a ceremony where discussing freedom involved calling for the presence of forebears and their contributions. Today's poem builds on the belief that imagining is a kind of magic in time travel, that listening to the soil.

[Chantali Gander]

And all the voices within is a.

[Major Jackson]

Monumental way into both history and our future. Black Book of Creation by Chantali Gander.

[Chantali Gander]

1 How far can you? She said. Far, he said. How far? She said, so far.

[Major Jackson]

He said that remembering all of them becomes a chant.

[Chantali Gander]

He said, I only, she said, can go this far.

[Major Jackson]

She said, great, great. Some sounds invite eavesdropping to all the befores before all the gates of never return. Before tongues couldn't be trained in what they no longer are. Before they knew about choosing between leaving.

[Chantali Gander]

Of will or leaving of force before.

[Major Jackson]

The before that is time. We didn't call time before there was anything colored about it. That is then. Here and there are not separate. But on a table three Mother sits fashioning her children Cosmic clay, stardust and obsidian for resilience, dreams for seeing and the things not contained by language. And hardships sometimes cloaked as nightmares, stories stitched into DNA like home, distant, multiplied by separation anxiety, forgotten becomes exponential force that becomes a country expanded beyond its own self, beyond the shell that holds it together.

[Chantali Gander]

4.

[Major Jackson]

Creation is the Conversation what do you want to be?

[Chantali Gander]

Said she? Anything we choose, said we.

[Major Jackson]

But what?

[Chantali Gander]

Said she?

[Major Jackson]

Because the world said she will choose.

[Chantali Gander]

If you don't, said she.

[Major Jackson]

Magic, the ability to manipulate circumstance, said We.

[Chantali Gander]

It shall be, said she. Time Lords, said We, to collapse and.

[Major Jackson]

Expand time at will, said we. Visibility and invisibility at will, said We. It shall be, said she.

[Chantali Gander]

But, said she, as gifts are given, they can be stolen, said she. So with each of these things, said.

[Major Jackson]

She, it shall be a veil of forgetting, a spirit that resists destruction.

[Chantali Gander]

And these wings, said she, do not.

[Major Jackson]

Let anyone tell you they do not exist. Do not let anyone tell you they are wax.

[Chantali Gander]

5.

[Major Jackson]

Funny how the universe beats against itself, creating echoes. How far can you go back?

[Chantali Gander]

They said. Far, she said. How far? They said. So far, she said. It becomes a chant. She said, I know all the names of my mothers.

[Major Jackson]

The Slowdown is a production of American Public Media in partnership with the Poetry Foundation. This project is also supported in part by the National Endowment for the Arts on the [e-mail] to get a poem delivered to you daily, go to slowdownshow.org and sign up for our newsletter. Find us on Instagram loadownshow.

[This Old House Advertiser]

From Emmy Award winning series this Old House comes a new podcast, this Old House Radio Hour. We tell stories of the artisans, builders and visionaries that keep the spirit of craftsmanship alive. We also uncover America's forgotten homes with cheap old Houses hosts Elizabeth and Ethan Finkelstein Places with history, soul and price tags that seem too good to be true. Listen and follow this Old House Radio Hour from LAS Studios and American Public Media. Wherever you get your podcasts.