Farah Trim Peter (3:26)

Yeah, I appreciate that. And we've had a lot of other conversations with other folks connected to the community centric fundraising movement and beyond about really just questioning what has been best practices and really thinking differently about the relationship and certainly appreciating what donors can contribute, but also appreciating what staff contribute, what volunteers contribute, what the community contributes. So I'm really excited to get into this. Now, I know you've been talking to donors for decades, and I'm just curious, what are those conversations like? Are there points you tend to always make or approaches you take to shift that conversation into one that's maybe less 100% donor centric and one that might be more partnership oriented and really create more of a relationship with the organization?

Emily Bishop Runeri (4:11)

Yeah, I think about this a lot, honestly, and I appreciate what you said about how all the stakeholders bring something to the table. And I couldn't agree more. I really firmly believe that those closest to the root of the problem should have one of the biggest says in how to solve the problem. And donors aren't always closest to the root of the problem. So to answer your question about talking to donors and what I do to make it more partnership oriented, I think there's a lot of ways you can do this. But one thing that has helped me do this throughout my career is to always have a goal for every conversation with a donor. And that can be a really small goal. It can just be like, get them to agree to a second meeting, or it could be a large solicitation. But I tend to try to keep the conversation focused on that goal, even if it might not be super obvious to the donor that I'm doing that. Someone listening to this might say, well, what about the chit chat? And you want to build a relationship? Yes, of course I'm not saying don't do those things. You absolutely should do those things. But by keeping your goal at the center of your mind, which would then keep it at the center of the conversation, shows the donor that you're there to talk about the work and that the work deserves to be taken seriously. And I think that it sets a tone, one of business. Not business in the money transaction way, but in, like, the seriousness way. And it acknowledges that we're both here at this table to try to solve a problem. That advice can go really well in a lot of reasons with donors. You know, Farah, I always think about power dynamics when it comes to donors and fundraisers and moving into more of, like, a partnership orientation versus a, you know, maybe more donor centric orientation. And to me, this means really thinking about the power structure that society has created, that whoever has the more money is more powerful. When you let the donor drive the conversation, it immediately sets the tone that they're in charge. And that sets up that power dynamic that we are trying to avoid and trying to break down. It doesn't mean come in with a PowerPoint. It doesn't mean come in with a written agenda. It just means be intentional about that. Say something at the beginning of the meeting like, thanks for meeting with me today. I want to make sure I update you on our latest data. I want to answer all your questions, and I want to talk about your annual support. And it just sets the tone of, like, we're here to solve this problem together as professionals. I think that's one small little step you could take.

Farah Trim Peter (6:32)

That's great. I appreciate that. When we prepared for this conversation, you mentioned that you've had some difficult conversations with donors and board members where you've stressed the importance of putting the mission first, just like you were just speaking about. You may have a goal going into a conversation to raise money for X, but that X always comes back to the mission and the work. And I'm curious, have you ever had a conversation with someone who just didn't get the importance and you had to reject their support? They were making a demand that just didn't make sense or was really, as we sometimes say, not kosher, given what you were trying to do?

Emily Bishop Runeri (7:08)

Good question. I don't think it's as black and white as, oh, you don't get it, and therefore I'm rejecting your support. As fundraisers, we would love it if someone just mailed in a check for a million dollars and then we had to say, oh, who's this person? But rarely does that happen? So, you know, normally you're cultivating a relationship with a donor and you're asking questions about why are they interested in your organization, what speaks to them the most, how does their philanthropy speak to their values? And having those kind of conversations with your donors, as you're doing your cultivation before you even make an ask, is going to set you up to show you what this donor does value. And that kind of information is going to give you what you need to know. Okay, do I need to stop the progress that we're making towards a solicitation here? It's not always easy, but if you can really be open to asking some of those questions at the front end, it can be really helpful. More specifically, I think this shows up a lot when a donor might have a preference to fund a certain program or give a restricted gift to a certain thing. And you know that that's not necessarily what your organization needs or what's going to best serve your clients or help you meet your mission. And this is where I think it's really the fundraiser's responsibility to guide them either towards something else or unrestricted funding and really explain why that's important and then be able to pivot and encourage them, if they only want to give restricted funding, to be able to say, that's not what we need right now and that's okay. It's okay if that's what they want. And we are not doing that. And it's okay to have that conversation and realize what's going to both meet your needs simultaneously.

Farah Trim Peter (8:38)

I appreciate that. Now, I know that there are times that you're obviously educating those donors in one on one settings, in those conversations leading up to maybe an ask or as you're getting to know them. But then there are times that I believe you've engaged with groups of donors when you're in front of many donors at once. And I'm curious for folks who may be have that opportunity to get in front of either prospects or existing donors, what are some ways that you've educated groups of donors when you've had a chance? Whether they're existing or potential, every organization.

Emily Bishop Runeri (9:07)

Really has different pathways to educate their donors. So it's hard to say, you know, this is one thing that worked really well. I think really highlighting the work, showing the mission at the center of all of the work, having conversations, asking those hard questions are all ways that you can work towards educating your donors. And I also think connecting what we do to the wider global picture is really important too. And this is not Necessarily in terms of a group of donors, but it does kind of go to educating the donor and your role as a fundraiser. Traditional philanthropy tended to be very transactional. You know, I give to this food bank because it's in my community, because my neighbor does whatever XYZ reason. When I try to talk to a donor, I try to educate them. And many donors already do this themselves. So let me make that clear. But I try to really make that connection between the philanthropy that they're doing and how that connects to the global wider picture. So what I mean by that is maybe you have that food bank donor, but as you're talking to them about their annual gift, instead of just saying, well, your gift can serve this many people this year, you say, oh, did you see this article about the farm bill that's up in Congress and how does that relate to food insecurity in our neighborhood? And SNAP benefits come through the farm bill and making those connections I think is a really good way to educate your donors.

Farah Trim Peter (10:27)

That's great. And I've also seen some groups, they'll do briefings or webinars, they do lives on Instagram or Facebook. I know one group was doing like a book of the month club and reading conversations and discussion on related topics. So I appreciate those ideas you shared as well. Now, in the spirit of continuing to get a little more tactical, in your post you shared four ideas that folks can do, no matter the size, age or type of organization. And again we are going to link to your blog post. I hope people read it in its entire entirety. And in that spirit, maybe you can share one of those ideas or maybe perhaps an extra one that comes to mind that non profit staff can use to equalize their relationship with donors.

Emily Bishop Runeri (11:07)

Yes, I absolutely can. And I know exactly which one to share because I feel so passionately about this, the way you email. So anybody that I manage, and I've managed a ton of fundraisers in my career and they would all. If anyone's listening, they're probably nod their head. But I always say you're not writing to the queen. And what I mean by this is that it is uncomfortable. You think of these high net worth individuals and they do have a lot of power, seemingly have a lot of power. And sometimes the natural inclination is to be extremely deferential and I really encourage not to do that. Of course you should be respectful, but you can be confident in the way that you email. You can hold your own ground in the way that you email. And what I mean more specifically by this is I See, a lot of fundraisers start to email and they say things like, oh, wow, if I could have five minutes of your time, I would be so extraordinarily grateful. And I know you're so busy and shifting from that to, hi, I'd like to speak to you about this. Do you have time? It just really changes the power dynamic right off the bat in an email and just be normal, be professional, be concise. And I think this actually really does make a big shift to start changing that power balance a little bit.

Farah Trim Peter (12:22)

Yeah, I appreciate that. So write your donor like you're writing anyone else.

Emily Bishop Runeri (12:25)

Yeah. I mean, professionally, of course. Respectfully, of course. But you're not bowing down to them and catch yourself there. You know, read your emails and talk to your co fundraisers about it.

Farah Trim Peter (12:35)

Yeah. Maybe that's an even interesting exercise. Ask your staff and yourself to look at some recent emails you've sent to donors and read them with that critical edge and say, like, are we treating our donors like partners, or are we treating them like, thank God they're here for us, and how do we find that fine line where we're appreciating them? But again, we're keeping that power imbalance and we're thinking about that partnership.

Emily Bishop Runeri (12:56)

Exactly.

Farah Trim Peter (12:57)

Well, Emily, thank you. It's really been a joy to speak with you. And again, I appreciate your blog post, and I hope folks go out there and read it. And if you would like to connect with Emily beyond today's conversation, you can find her on LinkedIn. We will be sure to link to her profile. You can also find her on Instagram @emme b I s H Emmy Bish, which is a kind of version of her last name here. And Emily, before we go, any last words of wisdom or tips you want to share before we sign off?

Emily Bishop Runeri (13:25)

What? I always try to remind myself when the big picture gets a little too overwhelming. Philanthropy is tricky. It's been around for centuries, really. It's been rooted in patriarchy, white supremacy, capitalism. We can't erase all that with one donor meeting or even maybe our lifetimes, who knows? But all we can do is really focus on the next right thing. And that's why I try to think about these small things, whether it's the way you email or how you have a meeting as the next right thing to try to break down some of these really ingrained societal things that we just want to move forward.

Farah Trim Peter (13:59)

Yeah. The power of the small. Appreciate that. Well, Emily, thanks so much for being here with us.

Emily Bishop Runeri (14:04)

Thank you. It was really great to speak with you.

Farah Trim Peter (14:06)

Wonderful. Well everyone, go out there, take a look at your communications and think about how you can bring that partnership mindset when you're talking to donors. Take care everyone.

Farah Trim Peter (14:15)

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Farah Trim Peter (14:38)

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Farah Trim Peter (14:58)

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