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The Smart Communications Podcast
Episode 215: Does your nonprofit really need a new name?
00:19:30
Learn how to tell when your organization’s name may be holding it back, when a name change makes sense, and how taglines can strengthen your brand.
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- [00:03]
A
This is the Smart Communications Smart Communications Smart Communications Podcast Developing the Voices Developing the Voices of Determined Nonprofits brought to you by Big Duck.
- [00:17]
B
Welcome to the Smart Communications Podcast. This is Farrah Trim Peter, co director and worker owner at Big Duck, and today we're going to ask the question, will a new name fix your brand or do you need something else? And I am delighted to be joined by one of my fellow worker, owners and copy director here at Big Duck, Ryan Gerhardt. Ryan uses he him pronouns and has been on our team for over six years. Before Big Duck, Ryan honed his communication skills across publishing, agency work, and in house marketing for a nonprofit. He's been on the podcast several times before, so you may remember hearing from him, including a recent episode we had where we explored How How A Language Guide Can Help youp Nonprofit. Ryan, welcome back.
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C
Thanks for having me back, Farrah.
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B
Yeah, well, so for today's conversation, we're gonna get into themes that connected to a recent blog post that Ryan wrote called Will an Updated Name or Tagline Fix youx Branding Problem? And if this topic intrigues you beyond this conversation, I encourage you to read that article. We'll be sure to link to it in the transcript for this conversation@bigduck.com insights but Ryan, let's get into it a little bit and set the stage for folks who may or may not have read that article or had this question in their mind. Why do so many nonprofit leaders jump right into we need a new name when they're frustrated with, you know, people actually knowing who their organization is or participating in its programs?
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C
I think the name becomes the prime suspect among some nonprofit leaders because they're so passionate about and invested in their organizations. It can be really frustrating to learn that folks don't know who you are or maybe just as often confuse them with another organization or peer. I think it leads some folks to wonder what it is they're quote, unquote doing wrong since the work is so great. There's also this element of questioning potentially how people could possibly know what they do if they don't seem to know who they are. The organization's name, you know, at Big Duck, we refer to it as your most widely traveled ambassador because it is in that role. It becomes this clear target for updates when that frustration around awareness or engagement bubbles over. This can also draw attention to when organizations have been around for a while and the language has evolved away from what it was then and where we are now as a society. And so the organization name often becomes the focus of that Frustration.
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B
Yeah, that makes sense. I know we hear so many times from organizations. We're the best kept secret. Everybody who knows us loves us, but not enough people know us and write. Sometimes. Maybe there is some challenges with the name, but sometimes it's just because they're not getting themselves out there. And I know we've talked about naming a lot of times on this podcast, but including a conversation. You've been on several of those naming conversations, and you and I actually had a conversation back in 2022 on episode 104 for those who want to go back in time called embracing the challenges of changing your new name. Because process aside, there are times when it does make sense for an organization to change its name. And so let's kind of do a two parter here. First, what are some signs that an organization's name is genuinely holding it back? And can you share an example of a nonprofit where changing its name actually made sense and it benefited the organization and its community?
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C
Absolutely. I would say two ways in which, you know, it may be holding you back. We kind of addressed it a little bit in the previous question, but this idea of if the name contains potentially a word or words that are misleading or inaccurate in today's landscape, or if, you know, the organization is frequently confused with another organization just because the names are so similar. In addition to those very common challenges, another one we run into, particularly with non profits, is that when an organization's name is just so long that is routinely shortened to an acronym, people often don't know that acronym or people use different acronyms. I know we've worked with some organizations where they have four or five different ways that depending on who you ask, they're referred to in a different way, a different set of acronyms, they change different words. So that is really kind of the main things holding organizations back in terms of a name and why they might want to consider a change. The name may also sometimes develop a little bit of some negative connotations. Right. And that has a lot less to do with the name itself. And potentially maybe some experiences folks have had where they weren't quite so pleased in terms of an organization that we have worked with and where it really made sense to change the name. Because of some of these reasons, we actually wrote a blog about this. This was the nonprofit name change for John Jay College Institute for Justice and Opportunity. So before the name change, they were known as the Prisoner Reentry Institute at John Jay College. Part of this is the evolution of language for the reasons we've already discussed. A word like prisoner is very stigmatizing, certainly has fallen out of use for folks. And we now use other phrases such as people who are justice involved or people who are formerly incarcerated, which would be quite long to use in a name. There's also this kind of challenge. They were struggling with this idea of just reentry because that's very limited in scope. And as an organization, they do research, they do networking, they do a ton of other services. So the idea that the name really elevated and led with this idea of prisoner reentry posed a big challenge on a big picture level. I think what we wanted to do was take that idea and all the broad work that they're doing and flip it into this more positive and asset based name. So uplifting and leading with this idea of justice and opportunity represented within the institute at the college.
- [05:55]
B
Yeah, I remember when we were working on that project, they even talked in the beginning about how staff who worked there didn't even want to put the organization on their resume because they were so embarrassed by the name. Not to mention getting program participation because people just didn't want to be affiliated with that. So you flip that and turn into something people actually are proud of to work on. I mean, that's a great impact of a rebrand. The blog you wrote that we mentioned earlier also gets into taglines, which I generally find are underused or underappreciated, and how they can help really reinforce a nonprofit's brand positioning or even finish the sentence the name begins. And of course, you raise some good points in your blog about times when a nonprofit might not need a tagline. But I'm curious if you could talk a little bit about what are some of the times that a nonprofit needs a tagline or doesn't need a tagline? And maybe what's the difference between a good tagline and one that's just taking up space?
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C
Yeah, I always find it interesting when folks are not so interested in taglines just because. And granted, these are for profit examples, but I'm sure most folks have heard of and quickly associate just do it with Nike or I'm loving it with McDonald's or, you know, taglines do have this power to stick in people's brains. And that really is, in my opinion, they do have a place and a lot of different brand toolkits and then those assets. Because when you can create a good one, it just adds to that stickiness and hooks into people's minds in that way. But, you know, at times they may seem less useful or necessary depending on when they're used. When a name is super clear or descriptive, maybe that tagline doesn't feel as useful, particularly for a non profit, because a lot of folks want to use that tagline to just further explain what they're doing. But unless you have built a ton of brand equity and awareness, which going back to those for profit examples, they spend a lot of money to do that. But unless you have built that awareness, it's really hard to kind of get that to stick otherwise. So for me, a good tagline is one that does add something new to people's understanding. It should do something that your name or logo or other associated elements aren't already doing. That's often why we try to avoid potentially duplicating words in the tagline that are already in the name or we look to add value or action or when the name is already doing something very descriptive or explanatory. As far as the comment of when is a tagline kind of just taking up space, I also like to remind folks that functionally and stylistically it's 2026. We have definitely moved beyond the age of requiring that your tagline is always mentioned or connected to or visually locked with your logo and name. I think in today's usage, we're really thinking about it very flexibly in an additive way. So if it makes sense to run as a rotating banner on your homepage, maybe that's a great way to incorporate it in. I know a lot of folks are always looking for stuff to put on different promotional or swag items, right? This, this is just one additional extension. So you aren't always relying on your name and logo quite as heavily.
- [08:51]
B
Great. Well, we recently worked with an organization that's been around for decades and went into a branding process with us, assuming they needed a new name.
- [08:59]
C
And.
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B
And then our team together decided to refresh their brand without making a name change, in part because of what we learned during the discovery process. We're not going to give away names in this conversation, but I know, Ryan, you were involved in this project and I would love to talk about the role of research. How can audience research help nonprofits figure out whether or not they should change their name or how to avoid making a pretty expensive branding decision of going through a naming process and then reintroducing yourself and based on just their own assumptions?
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C
Totally. And I think that is one of the reasons why we at Big Duck and I know a lot of agencies try to create a project team that reaches a ton of different areas of expertise Right. We always have. In addition to creative folks and management folks, there are strategy folks. Right. And we bring in all these different elements because someone will hopefully recognize something that could be useful, might be an insight, might be a reason to do or not do a creative project that folks came in thinking they wanted. So research is a great initial step because you can directly bring in the hypothesis that maybe the name is the problem and changing it will solve things. But it provides you an opportunity to test against what audiences actually have to say. Every organization would love to be a household name, but for most folks, that's just not realistic. We mentioned, you know, the time, the money that goes into becoming a brand name. So when a name changes on the table, the identified problem is often, well, new or prospective audiences don't know us, and that's the issue, and that's why we need a new name. But if you really think about it, it totally makes sense for new and prospective audiences to not know you as well. They're new. Right. And so audience research helps you to kind of take a step back, understand why potentially current audiences are with your brand, what they think of the name, if they have any attachment to it, you know, how changing it might impact their relationship, and really go about this in a way to decide, okay, these folks know us because these reasons or they don't, they like these things or they don't. When we want to reach new potential audiences, it is pretty reasonable to say there could be similar reasons that they do or do not connect with the name. Right. And so really understanding what's going on with the challenge potentially of the name currently and how audiences currently view it could help you understand how audiences going forward can be better engaged. Because you mentioned this early on, sometimes it's not an issue with the name. It's not an issue with what you're doing. It's an issue with how you are reaching folks or where you are reaching folks, and you're not really maximizing the potential engagement.
- [11:30]
B
Right. And conversely, if your name really does have some fundamental flaws, it sounds like every other organization or too much like a peer. It contains words that are stigmatizing or no longer used. It has a geographic element that's no longer true for the work area you cover or population you serve, then you probably do want to address that before you do a big marketing push. But if the name otherwise is maybe fine or neutral and people don't know you, that might be more of a marketing problem. So it's definitely worth trying to get out the problem before arriving at the solution Now, Ryan, let's say there's a nonprofit leader out there listening to this and wondering whether or not they need a new name, a new tagline, or maybe something else entirely. Where do you think they should start?
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C
Yeah, I think this connects a little bit to kind of that idea of we provide a multifaceted team. Right. Because you really have to look at all the elements. And so I would suggest folks, again, take that step back and do a little bit more of a comprehensive brand checkup or internal audit, however you want to think about it. But really just assessing each brand element, identity element, and determining which one or ones might not be up to task. Part of this does involve some research, both with internal and external audiences. Talk to staff and think about where do they often see the most struggle with awareness or understanding. Are there any clear external barriers? Is it any one piece in isolation? Right. Is your, is your logo so abstract that it's causing confusion? Because people see that all over the place, but they can't tell if it's, you know, a son or a body part of what it is you mentioned, you know, has language evolved and we know that there is this particular word that are turning folks away or the folks that we're trying to reach and connect with wouldn't want to identify that way, so why would they come to us? Right. Like sometimes it is very clear, but often just assessing each piece individually can help you figure out where there might be room for improvement.
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B
Well, you know, I always love to offer some hands on tips. You just gave us some. But I'm going to ask for another. What's one thing organizations can do this month, you know, in the time that they're listening to this conversation, to strengthen their brand without launching a full, complete rebrand, overhaul and process?
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C
Yeah, I think the, the main thing that comes to mind for me, particularly in terms of messaging and language, you know, as we're thinking about naming and tagline and, and all those pieces is really just taking the step to improve consistency with what you have. So with a name, if your name is really long, become more consistent with. Do we always use the full version? When we do reduce or abbreviate down, this is the only other version that we use. How do we limit the number of acronyms we're using for your mission statement? You know, that gets used so many different ways. It gets used in grants, it gets used in RFPs. It's on your website. Right. Take a look and see. Are we writing it slightly different ways and slightly different places? Right. How can we start to bring things together. We talk a lot at Big Duck about brand guides and just having some sort of guide or reference for people to have to review a handful of your materials, your website, and check against the guide to make sure there's that consistency. That is really to me, a very small hands on step that you can take to improve that awareness. Because again we mentioned part of the challenge for a lot of folks is just there are so many organizations, there are so many things that sound similar that when they see a version of your name and then they see something else that's close, but maybe a word or letter is different or they read something from you and it's close, but a few words are different, it's hard for them to tell if it's a whole new organization or if it's still you. So that consistency in that piece is key. I will just make an additional plug for setting up some sort of potential research, you know, doing that internal discussion to figure out what do you want to learn about the brand. And from there you can start to draft whether it's a survey, a focus group. It really depends on the time, resources and energy your organization has. But doing some sort of potential research to figure out how different pieces of your brand and identity are resonating is really key before launching into any sort of updates.
- [15:37]
B
Yeah, I want to pick up on two things you just shared. One is, you know, consistency brings recognition and we often say the second things start getting boring to you. You're sick of saying the same thing. You're sick of looking at the same colors using the same typeface. The. That's actually when people start recognizing you.
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Right?
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Nike's had just do it for I don't know how many years. Like we're going on decades with that tagline. Maybe people who work there are bored of it, but everyone knows it as one of the most recognizable slogans that exists. So be consistent if you want recognition. And then the other thing you shared. I just want to offer a resource. We did an ebook recently on conducting audience research. So if you're out there and you're wondering about maybe we should survey or focus group or interview folks in our community about our name. Check that resource out. It's free on our website. Again, you can find it or we'll link to it in this Transcript all@bigduck.com insights all right, one more question, Ryan, before we go. What are some of the hidden costs of solving the wrong branding problem?
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C
Yeah, so time and money lost are not hidden costs. Right. But Those are two big ones we definitely just want to name. I think a hidden cost of solving the wrong problem is sometimes a loss of important brand equity, and tied to that is potentially funding right among your most ardent supporters. If you are solving the wrong problem and you make a change that is more reflexive than researched and you change your name or you change your mission, or you change something that you didn't think was going to be a problem, but then turns out your core supporters loved it and they are upset that you changed it, that can lead to a pretty significant loss. Potentially solving the wrong branding problem also has the potential to lead to you being in the news and not necessarily for the reason that you want to. I think I don't need to name any particular organization or case, but I think everyone can conjure up in their own brains their favorite recent example of this. But public missteps and looking out of touch and making changes to things that don't need to change or not going far enough or whatever it happens to be is a very real concern, particularly in this day and age. So while branding changes won't solve all your problems necessarily, they certainly won't solve programmatic or operational shortcomings. There is a real cost to making a change when it's not needed or warranted.
- [17:57]
B
Right? You could, as you were saying, you can hurt your reputation and actually go in the reverse impact of what we hope our branding process creates for you, which is opening the door and building relationships. You're. You're talking about cases where you actually alienate and lose people. Certainly things we hope never happen. Well, if you're out there and you're wondering about your brand and whether you should update it or how you should update it, feel free to reach out to us. We can help you conduct a brand checkup or do an audit. You can always email hellogduck.com or go to our website@bigduck.com look for the contact button and fill out our form and we'll be in touch. Ryan, thanks again for joining us today. Thanks for all right everyone, have a great day out there.
- [18:36]
A
Are you a fan of this podcast or Big Duck's other resources? Resources on non profit communications? If you are, we'd love to hear from you. Please drop us a line by writing to helloigduck.com to tell us what you're working on and what topics you need help with. We also welcome getting your feedback via reviews. You can review this podcast wherever you listen. We'd love to hear from you.
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C
This is the Smart Communications Podcast Developing the Voices of Determined Nonprofits brought to you you by Big Duck.
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Big Duck is an agency that puts smart communications in the hands of nonprofits. We help our nonprofit clients develop strong brands, strong campaigns, and strong teams that advance their missions and achieve their goals.
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Connect with us@bigduck.com.