Ferrari F80; GT3 Price Jump; How to Drive a Manual; Q&A

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Smoking Tire
Episode Title: Ferrari F80; GT3 Price Jump; How to Drive a Manual; Q&A
Hosts: Matt Farah & Zack Klapman
Release Date: October 24, 2024

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1. Personal Updates and Anecdotes

Zack's Wedding Experience
The episode opens with Matt and Zack sharing personal updates, notably Zack's recent wedding. Matt recaps their previous discussion about Zack’s upcoming name change, highlighting the humorous challenges they faced, such as prankster situations at the wedding and the logistics of managing a large guest list.

"Everyone who's been married was like, that's what it is. Like, I felt like talent."
— Zack Klapman [09:17]

They delve into the intricacies of wedding planning, from handling alcohol consumption to coordinating with the wedding coordinator, Mel from XOXO Weddings.

2. Discussion on Car Dependency and the Book "Autonomous"

Book Overview: "Autonomous" by Peter Nelson
Matt introduces the central discussion of the episode: the book "Autonomous" by Peter Nelson, which critiques the perpetual promises of autonomous driving technology and examines society's deep-rooted car dependency.

"Every promise they've made in the last years about autonomous driving has been made before. Every 20 years going back to the 30s."
— Matt Farah [19:26]

Car-Dependent vs. Less Car-Dependent Societies
Drawing from his recent trip to Sitges, Spain—a city prioritizing pedestrian zones and public transit over car use—Matt contrasts it with Los Angeles’ car-centric infrastructure. He emphasizes how cities like Sitges demonstrate that reduced car dependency is achievable without sacrificing quality of life.

"Sitges is not a car-dependent city. About a third of this town, particularly the old town, is closed off to cars entirely."
— Matt Farah [25:20]

Critique of the Autonomous Driving Promise
The hosts critique the automotive industry's repeated assurances that autonomous vehicles will soon revolutionize safety and efficiency. They argue that despite technological advancements, significant challenges remain, especially in integrating autonomous cars with human-driven vehicles.

"They keep promising that the future of a crash-proof, death-proof, emissions-free car is just right around the corner."
— Matt Farah [21:08]

Zack adds that while autonomous cars might technically reduce certain types of accidents, the lack of complete integration and the coexistence with human drivers prevents substantial improvements in overall road safety.

"Nothing new needs to be invented. We just need to make different choices at the policy level."
— Matt Farah [41:33]

3. Ferrari F80 Hypercar Analysis

First Impressions and Design Critique
Matt and Zack discuss Ferrari's newly launched hypercar, the F80. They express skepticism about its design and performance, noting that it feels overly complex compared to previous models like the 296 and Daytona SP3.

"It looks like a Darth GP-designed hypercar... there's nothing about that car, take off the badge. It has very little that says Ferrari."
— Matt Farah [52:13]

Zack shares his disappointment, mentioning that the F80's aesthetics seem cluttered with unnecessary systems and that its performance doesn't stand out amidst Ferrari's current lineup.

"I don't think this is one of them. So a big thing for me is just, do I like the way it looks?"
— Zack Klapman [49:24]

Technical Considerations and Emissions Regulations
They touch upon the technical aspects, questioning if Ferrari had to downsize their engines to meet EU emissions regulations, potentially compromising the hypercar's performance and distinctiveness.

"Does Ferrari have to start downsizing their cylinders for EU regs? That's the world we live in."
— Zack Klapman [54:01]

4. Porsche 992.2 GT3 Price Jump and Features

Price Increase and Market Impact
The hosts analyze the recent price hike of Porsche's 992.2 GT3, discussing its implications for consumers and the brand. They note that the GT3's increased cost reflects its enhanced features but also raises concerns about accessibility for enthusiasts.

"The new GT3 is 53 grand more. That one was predictable."
— Matt Farah [58:56]

Performance and Practicality
While acknowledging the GT3's prowess on the track, Matt and Zack debate its suitability as a daily driver. They agree that despite its performance capabilities, the harsh ride and high maintenance costs make it less practical for everyday use.

"It's a monster, but very harsh. Give me a GTS any day of the week over that thing."
— Matt Farah [86:20]

They highlight that the GT3RS, though powerful, is harsh on standard roads, leading to a preference for more versatile models like the GTS for daily driving.

5. Q&A Segment

Listener Questions and Host Responses

• Finding a Weekend Convertible:
  Elias asks for suggestions on great weekend convertibles within a $30k budget.

  Matt recommends the BMW E92 M3 Convertible for its driving dynamics and aftermarket support, despite noting potential challenges with maintenance.

  "I would rather have an E92 M3 convertible than a 650 convertible."
  — Zack Klapman [68:04]

• Understated High-Powered Cars:
  Mr. Meowge inquires about the existence of high-powered, understated travel-style cars.

  Matt and Zack suggest models like the Audi RS6, BMW M5, and Porsche Panamera, which offer performance without overly flashy designs.

  "They have some of those. I mean, I don't know about understated because I think people who buy big coupes do want something that looks good."
  — Matt Farah [80:51]

• Million Mile Lexus Restoration:
  Joe Curran asks about the progress of a million-mile Lexus restoration project.

  Matt shares updates from their Instagram follower, Elsewhere World, noting that the restoration is nearing completion with minimal engine issues.

  "I followed those guys on Instagram. Is it actually done? I mean, Freddie said that when it was done..."
  — Matt Farah [84:11]

• Daily Driving an E46 M3 with an S2000:
  Arun P. considers using his E46 M3 as a daily driver alongside his BRZ.

  Matt and Zack endorse the idea, emphasizing the E46's comfort and drivability, provided it's well-maintained.

  "I think it'd be great."
  — Zack Klapman [88:40]

6. Final Thoughts and Recommendations

Policy Changes Over Technological Promises
The hosts conclude by reiterating the importance of policy-level changes to reduce car dependency rather than relying solely on technological advancements like autonomous driving. They advocate for investments in public transportation and urban planning that prioritize pedestrians and cyclists.

"Nothing needs to be invented. We just need to make different choices at the policy level."
— Matt Farah [41:33]

Upcoming Content and Community Engagement
Matt encourages listeners to join their Patreon for exclusive content and previews of future episodes, including the anticipated discussion with returning guest Brian Scotto.

"Thank you to our patrons for such good questions today. We appreciate it."
— Matt Farah [90:46]

7. Notable Quotes

• Matt Farah on Autonomous Driving:
  "We have perfected this system to where it will be clean, cheap, and perfectly safe."
  — Matt Farah [22:54]

• Zack Klapman on Consumer Behavior:
  "Their practice of the next thing is just around the corner or is here is like that's advertising. 101 now for every product."
  — Zack Klapman [40:24]

• Matt Farah on Car Restoration:
  "It's all leather. Yeah, I don't like plastic."
  — Matt Farah [94:27]

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Conclusion:
In this episode, Matt Farah and Zack Klapman delve deep into the persistent issues of car dependency and the unfulfilled promises of autonomous vehicle technology. Through personal anecdotes, critical analysis of new hypercars, and engaging Q&A sessions, they provide listeners with insightful perspectives on the current state and future of the automotive industry. Their discussion emphasizes the need for systemic changes over relying solely on technological solutions to achieve safer and more efficient transportation.

Transcript

[Matt Farah]

I had been drinking since noon, didn't feel temperature.

[Zach Klapman]

So yeah, yeah, I think that's probably true, but that may just not be possible. I think the question here is does Ferrari have to start downsizing their cylinders for EU regs? That's the world we live in.

[Matt Farah]

NK thoughts on a 2021 Range Rover Sport SVR with 10,000 miles. What other cars that Matt hates are actually good?

[Zach Klapman]

And should I buy anything from the 60s? Sure, yeah.

[Matt Farah]

What up everybody? Welcome to the Smoking Tire Podcast. Today's episode is brought to you by off the Record. You know about off the Record? We love off the Record here. It is a motorist advocacy group and if you get pulled over for any kind of moving violation, big or small, don't plead guilty, get off the record, go to offtherecord.com TST or use code TST Pod on the off the Record app. They will fight that ticket for you and they will hopefully win. Get those points off your record. They have an amazing track record of this stuff and you can get an off the record attorney in almost anywhere in the United States of America. Big violation, small violation, doesn't matter. Can affect your insurance, can affect your employment, can affect your bottom line is what I'm saying. Or your right to your to drive your Dr. Privileges. So go to offtherecord.com TST or use code TST pod on the off the Record app. Either of those codes will give you 10% off any and all legal services booked through off the Record. Don't take it from me. Take it from the thousands of people who have used off the Record to get those points off your record and maintain clean driving privileges. Offtherecord.com TST or code TST pod on the off the Record app. Get an account, make it make it now so you're ready if the worst happens and then you don't have to sweat it out. All right. On today's cruise show, Zach and I talk about car dependency in the context of the Peter Nelson book Autonomous. I've just finished on a trip to Spain, a place that is less car dependent than America. We also analyze what we know about the new Ferrari F80 hypercar and whether we think it's good or not. We also Talk about the new 992.2 GT that has been released and Zach got married this weekend and we just grazed on it last show. So we're talking a little more about that plus some really good questions from our patrons. Make sure you join in on that [e-mail] the smoking tire. And of course we've got new merch up in our store at the smoking Tire shop dot com. Make sure you check that out. Fresh items just added. Let's do this Cruise show show. It's the smoke. Entire podcast Yellow are. Here we are.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

I was really hoping to not be here.

[Zach Klapman]

You want to jump be. Where do you want to be?

[Matt Farah]

I don't know, but I. I woke up this morning to come in and it was dark and I was like, oh, yeah, the first, it's the first time that's happened where I've had a. I mean, obviously it's every year, days get shorter and whatever, but normally I get up at like 6:30 most mornings and like today was the first one where I was like, I'm up and it's dark still.

[Zach Klapman]

Wait, did you wake up extra early or. It was dark because the seasons.

[Matt Farah]

It was dark because the seasons. But it's just, it's got in my head a little bit.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, I know, I get it.

[Matt Farah]

I woke up in Spain last week. It was dark until 8:15am and that one fucking threw me off. When you got like a big time change to deal with and then you have that going on also. It was like real fucked up.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Right. It is a crew show today. We were supposed to have Simon Kidston join us from England, but we had some technical difficulties that need sorting and so we'll have to get back with Simon. Yeah, he's all right. Because I like, I like Simon a lot. He's cool. He's got a guy with a fucking cool ass gig lot these dudes rolling around, 250 GTOs. Like a boss. Yeah, he's a heavy hitter, this one. He's, he is one of the reasons that like, I mean, he's, he's a, he's a well off individual, but he's like a, he's, he's like. If Harry Metcalf was like a car dealer, you know what I mean? Like, he goes on like road trips in his 300 SL roadster. You know, he'll drive some 70s Ferrari, you know, across Europe for, you know, a cup of coffee kind of thing.

[Zach Klapman]

Uses the car.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Like his daily in England is like a 1964. I mean, it's like, it's like, it's boss level stuff. It's the kind of stuff where, you know, you'd be like, if I was fucking rich, right? This is the kind of way I'd like to live.

[Zach Klapman]

Because not many people do that. Plenty of people have that kind of money. But they don't do that with their cars.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, and he's got like, you know, a suitcase that matches each car and a fucking little dog that goes with him. It's a whole thing. It's a whole aesthetic. He's great and he sells a lot of very. And restores a lot of very high end cars. But there are many things to talk about. I mean we only, we only talked about your wedding for like three minutes yesterday. And that was a whole. That was a thing that happened.

[Zach Klapman]

That's quite a thing.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. You're. You're Mr. String Flow fellow in the. You're gonna. I. We learned that Zach's gonna hyphenate his last name.

[Zach Klapman]

I am?

[Matt Farah]

Yes you are.

[Zach Klapman]

I am.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, that's what Sarah said last night. Someone's hyphenating. It might as well be you. I don't know.

[Zach Klapman]

Both have to hyphen or does.

[Matt Farah]

No, no, no, it would be her. I mean, patriarchy dictates that it would be her.

[Zach Klapman]

We're progressive, but I don't like paperwork, so we're not that progressive.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Although your parents I think would be more okay with most parents if you were like, I'm taking her last name. Your mom would be like. Your mom would be like, you know, under this moon. That is acceptable.

[Zach Klapman]

When I was a kid and we got. I was going to get like a passport. I think I was like six. I did not understand anything. And we were like writing my name on the form and I said, can we change my middle name from Daniels to Daniel? Because I was like, I don't know anyone named Daniels. Daniel is the first name. And she looked at me and she was like, okay. And didn't change it cause that's her parents name.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, your middle name is her maiden name. Oh, that usually she usually does that. That's the kind of like my mom changed her middle name to her maiden name. My mom went from Vivian Sue Davis to Vivian Davis. Farah.

[Zach Klapman]

I don't know how middle names are normally handed down to.

[Matt Farah]

I mean that's like the OG like boomer way to do it.

[Zach Klapman]

My brother's middle names are different than mine. They come from my dad's side. I got my mom's side middle name.

[Matt Farah]

You got your dad's maiden name. That's made up thing that men don't have maiden names.

[Zach Klapman]

I don't know. But yeah, I guess there's gonna Daniel's.

[Matt Farah]

I mean, I understand the science, but like dropping the S probably would have made more sense in the context of how like name schemes work. Yeah, but like, but you have a plural middle name.

[Zach Klapman]

But in hindsight it's like, how rude of me. Like, you know her. Her parents came over.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, yeah. You didn't understand the science.

[Zach Klapman]

Can we just rebrand that? Because I don't like it. Yeah, I didn't understand the science.

[Matt Farah]

But you were accurately like, that looks and sounds weird. Which it fucking does.

[Zach Klapman]

It's a plural of a commonly singular name.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Is it plural or is it possessive? Because it could be like Daniel's clapman as opposed to David's clapman.

[Zach Klapman]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

You know what I mean?

[Zach Klapman]

There's no apostrophe.

[Matt Farah]

Right. Well, but I mean. Yeah, yeah, that's. I almost said there's no punctuation in names. Except there we were just talking about hyphens.

[Zach Klapman]

So they're absolutely, I think other languages. There's.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, they have act.

[Zach Klapman]

There's accents as much of.

[Matt Farah]

Right.

[Zach Klapman]

Not comma, apostrophe.

[Matt Farah]

Accent. Yeah, it's more of an accent.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Or no love or an Enya or, you know, what have you till A tilde is what it's I think called. I think the thing over. Amia thing.

[Zach Klapman]

Oh yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Is I believe is a tilde. Yeah. Anyway. But yeah, yeah, wedding. Very fun.

[Zach Klapman]

Very fun.

[Matt Farah]

Respect for the top shelf open bar. That was all right.

[Zach Klapman]

I was like, dollars. Well, we should have a good bar. And I was like, hey, I'll support dollars well spent.

[Matt Farah]

I'm pretty sure Jillian, best customer.

[Zach Klapman]

Was she the. I don't want to. I heard someone overindulged and returned some of their. The liquids that they had imbibed.

[Matt Farah]

Gillian. Puke.

[Zach Klapman]

There we go.

[Matt Farah]

Not, not like on anything. It wasn't like messy, but she did puke.

[Zach Klapman]

Oh, we heard, we heard it was two people and we weren't. We weren't sure it was Gibran or Jillian. So I was curious.

[Matt Farah]

I don't think it was Gibran. No, I think it was Jillian.

[Zach Klapman]

Awesome.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

I'm glad she had fun.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean there was. I mean there was a lot of top. It was so much so that apparently the bar told her like the bartender was like, you are shit faced.

[Zach Klapman]

Really?

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, she's.

[Zach Klapman]

Can you get cut off at a wedding if you're not.

[Matt Farah]

I mean, you probably. You probably could, but it's not likely.

[Zach Klapman]

It's more of a safety issue. But yeah, really funny.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

Well, the bartender there was like the company's head bartender, which is nice. So he made, you know, created all of our things and.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, I Did have one of. I had whatever the old fashioned was.

[Zach Klapman]

That was just like a traditional old Fashioned.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, yeah, it was good. Well executed. And then I was like, this is gonna go bad if I don't stick to clear liquor. And so it was, it was Tito's and soda for me pretty much all night.

[Zach Klapman]

My drink was the gin, cucumber, rosemary, something or other. Like that's up my alley.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, that sounds. That sounds good.

[Zach Klapman]

I drink four of those.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

I didn't get drunk. I got. I was buzzing the right amount.

[Matt Farah]

That's good. I mean, if you're the groom, it's pretty hard to get that drunk because you just can't get away to the bar.

[Zach Klapman]

True.

[Matt Farah]

You've always got something like people are going to bring you drinks, but you've just always got something going on.

[Zach Klapman]

It was like an assembly line.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

You know, and everyone. You said this, everyone who's been married was like, that's what it is. Like, I felt like talent. Yeah, we need you here. We need you here. And. But that was only for about two hours. It was that. And then it was like, all right, you're released. Just do what you want.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. After like 9pm, you know, once, like the, once like dinner's done, then you and you do your walks around all the tables and get all the photos. After that you're pretty much done.

[Zach Klapman]

And our wedding coordinator, it was absolutely awesome. Mel from XOXO Weddings, if you're in California, like fucking champion. But she. We assembly lined the photos as fast as humanly possible. And yeah, it's great because then I wanted to just go talk to people.

[Matt Farah]

The photos are fucking annoying. I mean, it's, it's, it's. I mean, you got to have them.

[Zach Klapman]

You got to have them.

[Matt Farah]

What you really want are like five photos. You have to have like hundreds of photos, like every possible group combination, whatever. But like the ones that will matter to you are going to. There's like, there's like five from the wedding that'll be somewhere in your house.

[Zach Klapman]

Totally.

[Matt Farah]

You know, or like on some, you know, permanent online portal or whatever. Like, there's the big group one with the friends. There's the walking down the aisle one or the kiss one. There's the first dance one, maybe a parent dance. And then. And then the rest are like, whatever. The rest.

[Zach Klapman]

I hope they just got fun, candid stuff of people doing things.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

Because we didn't, you know, we were flying around at such high speed and your brain is going so fast and like I forgot there was A photo booth. Because I was only over there.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

I didn't go in it at all. But like, were people in there? I don't know. Good.

[Matt Farah]

I was. I came home with one of them strip things. So I was in there at least once. Yeah, it was excellent. Excellent wedding. Good weather, fun. Perfect for an outdoor. Outdoor wedding. The last minute call for the heaters was a good call.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

I didn't notice but Hannah was all like, you went over to the cold side of the wedding for like a while and I had to stay over here. I was like. Well, I was shit faced and didn't feel temperature. So. Yeah, I had been drinking since noon.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. You had the choice between, you know, use the heaters dance or keep drinking. Or keep drinking. Yeah, keep drinking blankets or something.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, it was very good. And then. And there was warnings about that you gave us about the sort of like formalities isn't the right word. But there was some things. The venue was beautiful, but there were some things that you were like concerned. They were a little uptight about that. In practice, it didn't actually seem to matter that much at all.

[Zach Klapman]

It didn't. They just. I think it was on my mind because they have a lot of rules and we didn't bend any of them and we need to. But it was just like it was on my brain.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

But that's like. But it ended at 10 because that's like there's noise limits and see me for amplified music.

[Matt Farah]

Oh.

[Zach Klapman]

But honestly, I don't like going an hour more or anything. I don't think you need it.

[Matt Farah]

No, probably not. I mean it started early enough that it was still plenty of wedding. Who could hear fucking music. I mean it's one thing of a band was playing, but like I think.

[Zach Klapman]

It'S just the city wide rule.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And it just applies to. It doesn't matter how much amplification. Yeah. It's like any amplification.

[Matt Farah]

That rule is definitely based. Targeted at some. A certain genre of people. Simeon Simi. That rule is absolutely. That's like no cruising. Oh, okay.

[Zach Klapman]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Who's that designed to stop?

[Zach Klapman]

That's a good point. Yeah. It's a sleepy town though. I mean you asked like Corey, he goes, yeah, you can't really go out to dinner after 8:00pm yeah.

[Matt Farah]

It's a definitely.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

I almost called it a sundown community, but it's basically like that.

[Zach Klapman]

But it was, I mean, gorgeous place. So much fun.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. And watching our very nature, our friends.

[Zach Klapman]

From different groups interact was really, really.

[Matt Farah]

Oh yeah. I Mean, the car people and then the burning man people together was very funny.

[Zach Klapman]

Mm.

[Matt Farah]

And I was like, it's like, wow, Zach has a lot of friends. I don't know.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. So funny. I think groomsmen always do this. Like, one of my other friends is like, if that bridesmaids ever single, let me know. But like, her husband was at the wedding and I guess my friend was talking to her a lot and the husband was like, do I need to worry about how you guys are getting along? And my friend's like, no, no, no. Like, let's go to the bar. I'm harmless. Just. He wasn't trying to move in on anything. They were just joking around a lot.

[Matt Farah]

That's pretty funny. Yeah. So it was great. Congrats. Married. And now it'll just be like it was on Friday.

[Zach Klapman]

That's what everybody says.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Then it just goes back to being exactly the same. Except you file taxes together.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Cars. Guys, we got to take a quick break from the show for Delete Me. I have gotten my account going on Delete Me. I joined Deleteme because. Because I want to stop some of these Robo calls right now. You probably know someone who. Or maybe you have been a victim of identity theft or harassment, stalking, doxing, etc. Privacy is important. And for me, when privacy problems hit me was the phone, right? The robo calls, the robo texts, the phone scams, they're always calling. And I wanted that to stop. That's why I got Delete Me, right? I'm super aware of this. And it's if these people can get my phone number, you know who else can, right? Data brokers are compiling that information that you put out there, right? Online shopping or applying for stuff, they sell your data to data brokers and then they sell it online, right? So I signed up and provided Deleteme with all this information, right? Anything I wanted gone. My address, my phone number, my email, variations on my how my name could be written, my birth birthday, my wife's name, my family's name, addresses that I used to live at, cars I've owned, etc. Etc. And then Delete Me goes to work. Their experts take it from there. They send you regular personalized privacy reports showing what they found and where they found it and what was removed. And Delete Me is not just a one time service. It's always working for you. Constantly monitoring and removing the personal information you don't want on the Internet. Delete Me does all the hard work of wiping you and your family's personal information from data broker websites. When I got my first report back from Deleteme, it found over a thousand instances of my personal information on data broker websites. Now, fortunately, almost all of it was old and outdated, meaning it's addresses I used to live at jobs I used to have, things like that, but still we don't need that out there. So they've been going to work deleting that stuff and actually in the last week or two the robocalls have really, really red and hopefully they'll continue to reduce. So you can do it too. Take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Deleteme now at a special discount for our listeners. Get 20% off your DeleteMe plan when you go to JoinDelete me.com tire and use promo code tire at checkout. That's JoinDelete me.com tire&enter code tire at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go to join. Join deleteme.com tire and enter code tire at checkout. Now back to the show. While we were out there were cars I went to Spain to drive cars I can't talk about until the embargo is like way later. But I mean, Spain again, the best. Great roads. I mean really amazing roads. We're up by Montserrat, which is apparently a famous mountain. That looks, looks real crazy. How do you even spell M O N T S E R R A T? The corrected spelling.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, it fixes it.

[Matt Farah]

Yes. No, that's not it.

[Zach Klapman]

No, that's not it. That's in the ocean.

[Matt Farah]

That's an island in the ocean is Surat. Yeah. Mountain. Yeah, that's the one. Yeah. It looks pretty crazy. There's town, there's a town right at the base that's a. That was an ab in abbey. A monastery that's built up on top of the fucking mountain.

[Zach Klapman]

Wow.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, but the roads around there quite good. But like going to, you know, to Europe and I was reading, I'm reading. I just finished a book called Atanarama Autonomous by a guy named Peter Nelson, recommended to me by David Zipper and Autonoma is about the essentially false promise of autonomous driving and how basically every promise that has been made in the last few years about autonomous driving has been made before. And they keep pitching how long before? About every 20 years going back to the 30s.

[Zach Klapman]

Okay.

[Matt Farah]

Every time a new type of technology is invested, car companies and those invested in our car dependent society come out and say, well, this is the technology that's finally Going to make the car fast, safe, clean and efficient. Right. So first it was when like, like vacuum tube circuits, like the earliest version of circuits came out. It was going to be this, this is how we're going to have safer, smarter, higher tech, cleaner cars. Then it was the transistor. When the transistor came out, it was, now we're going to have, now we've got the tech, we can do smart roads, smart highways. And the cars will just follow almost like slot cars and the cars will follow these magnetic strips in the road and you'll just put in your destination and the car will take you there. And then, and then later it was, well, now we've got a computer that fits in a car and we've invented GPS and now we've got traction control. So now we finally are going to have cars that are, you know, reducing accidents and cleaner and.

[Zach Klapman]

But is that all true? I mean we've got. The cars are cleaner, they're faster, the accidents have gone down.

[Matt Farah]

Yes, but they've been, but the number of accidents has not gone down.

[Zach Klapman]

Well, there's more cars on the road, but like.

[Matt Farah]

Right, well, so that's the thing is the number of likely, the number of deaths has not gone down. The number of highway deaths has not gone down.

[Zach Klapman]

What if you adjusted for population growth and all those other things?

[Matt Farah]

Well, so if you, if you adjust for population growth, yes, but the absolute number of deaths on highways which were considered totally unacceptable in the 1930s has gone down per person. But we still have 30 to 40,000 highway deaths and they keep promising.

[Zach Klapman]

But I think if the number of accidents per number of people on the road either goes down or the number of fatalities go down or injuries go down, then we do have safer cars. Technically.

[Matt Farah]

No, no, no one is saying that we don't have safer cars, that a car built today is not safer than a car. But by continuing to promise that the future of a crash proof, death proof, emissions free car is just right around the corner. As opposed to, we could have trains, we could have public transportation, we could have walkable cities that prioritize pedestrian safety versus vehicle speed through an area. We have, we don't need new technology to reduce those deaths, we don't need new technology to improve our air quality, we don't need, you know what I mean? It's the, it's, the point is each of these new jumps in technology gives a new reason for automakers and people who are pro car dependent society to push the narrative that that is the right way forward.

[Zach Klapman]

Right. So you Keep people driving by saying just around the corner is perfection.

[Matt Farah]

Just around the. Driving just around the corner. We have perfected this system to where it will be clean, cheap and perfectly safe.

[Zach Klapman]

And it's like an oil company ad where they're like we're working on, they have green tech and they have people looking at clipboards while they're lobbying again. Okay.

[Matt Farah]

And so because the book was written in 2021 I thought oh well, 2021 to 2024 and it's a book about autonomy, it's going to be outdated but because it's basically the entire history of this false promise going all the way back to the 1930s and almost nothing significant has changed in autonomy from 2021 to yes, there's a few more waymos on the road.

[Zach Klapman]

Right, but they were already testing back then.

[Matt Farah]

They were already testing.

[Zach Klapman]

I mean they've got, I'm sure they've iterated a lot and they've improved their sales.

[Matt Farah]

Right. But there's no, there's no significant change in position.

[Zach Klapman]

No one has rethought the system like of autonomous drivers.

[Matt Farah]

Right.

[Zach Klapman]

Wemo. They look the same basically.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, okay, so some of them don't have a safety driver in the driver's seat and that's impressive. Okay, cool. But it's not, they've not remade the landscape. No one's selling what. So anyway, I read that book on the way to and from Spain on the plane and so to read a book about car dependency and then half 3/4 of the way through it find myself in Europe in a small city called Sitges S I T G E S outside of Barcelona. That is not a car dependent city. It goes back to like the 1600s. And yes there are cars and yes people have houses and driveways with garages and whatever and there's a highway that does run alongside it and you can get to places in and out of there by car. It is not a car dependent city. And by that what I mean is about a third of this town, particularly the old town is closed off to cars entirely. Pedestrian only. You can get a scooter, a scooter through there, but basically pedestrian only. And that's where all the high end shopping is. The fucking Izod store, the Apple store. Like they didn't have like, it wasn't like you know Tiffany and Rolex, but it was like the highest end shopping that they have the best restaurants, that they have, the best bars that they have the best stuff where people go was on, were on walk streets that were wide enough for a car, but were not, were car free.

[Zach Klapman]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

And, and there was a train station right in the middle of town, could take you straight to Barcelona. There was a variety of small like public transit buses. And I spent, you know, all day walking around this city the day I wasn't driving and then to come back to LA after reading this book and like just be like in so much traffic the day I got home.

[Zach Klapman]

But did that little city have like, like any kind of industry or. Basically, I'm thinking it would be cool to interview people that live in towns and cities of various sizes in different countries and see like, do they want for things that they wish they had there? Because I think an aspect of America is we have almost endless choice and we like that. But to do that requires a large system to deliver all of our wants, cater to those things. So like LA is gonna have traffic because it's got 15 different giant industries and all these people. So if this town is more of.

[Matt Farah]

Like, well, this town is smaller. But I've. How many European cities have you been to that are very. That are similar? I've been to a dozen European cities.

[Zach Klapman]

That are for sure.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, they, they just haven't prioritized car transport over. And you don't need to like, like ban cars except for maybe a couple streets and maybe during certain hours of the day, you don't need to ban cars and you don't need to price cars out of existence. The argument is that what we're doing as a society is subsidizing cars, which we are doing. We're prioritizing cars in a million different ways at the expense of other modes of transportation. They're all choices, right? So by subsidizing cars at the, at the. And what they do is by making cars the only choice for a lot of people, they then note that by they, I mean both policymakers, automakers, marketers, et cetera, they prioritize cars. They make it so you really can't live an adult life in a lot of ways in many places in our country without a car. And then they use the fact that people then go and buy cars to say, well, people's preference is cars. So they give them really only one choice. People take the thing that they're going to need to live and then they go, see, they want to be in cars. It's like, well, you're not looking in places where there's alternatives. And if you provide alternatives, then you don't even have to necessarily subsidize the alternatives. You Just have to like, not subsidize the cars. Like, these systems can literally like work themselves out if you make the choice to, like, have choices.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, totally. I mean, here we've. They've been working on this high speed rail in California for 10 years or something. And like, I know Elon got in the way for a little while, but it's been a decade and there's so much money been spent and they still haven't connected it. And if you gave people that choice, fewer people would drive on i5.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. You know, and it's not like it seems like it's a lost cause in a lot of places because it's like, well, what are you gonna do? The city's built. But like the city was built when they put the highways there. Like they bulldozed fucking highways.

[Zach Klapman]

Right?

[Matt Farah]

Or, excuse me, they bulldozed apartment buildings and quote, slums intentionally. They made choices where to put those highways. And there's quotes in the book from back in the 30s when they were doing the 40s when they were doing the Interstate Highways act by saying, like, we can remove blighted areas, meaning areas where poor people lived, by putting highways there. So, like, the choice was made already, so it's not too late to make a different choice. And it was like, it's hard. I love cars, good cars, but I like moving in the cars. And if there were like other ways to get around that were more effective and efficient, like, I might take them. And like, you don't have to force people out of cars because there's so many people driving cars that would rather not be driving a car. And like, if you gave them other options, they would take those options. And then the people who do want to drive a car would have less people on the road.

[Zach Klapman]

Right. I agree with you completely.

[Matt Farah]

It's better for everybody.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

So it was just like to read this book about a society that's been set up to depend on cars while going to a place that isn't and then coming back to a place that is. It was like so clear.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, that's. Yeah, you had visual aids, basically was so clear. Lesson plan.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, it was wild. It's a very good book. It's not a scientific read. You don't need to be a super nerd to read it. But it's. I mean, GM has been like one of the worst offenders throughout history of like promising shit like this. But other every, you know, other car companies as well, and obviously the most recent is Tesla and their bullshit. And it doesn't mean that and I.

[Zach Klapman]

Think technologically we are closer than ever. It's the same thing. Like in the 40s, someone probably dreamed of going to space and it was like, it didn't happen for 25 more years. And then, you know, like people dream and technology advance. I mean, da Vinci helicopter, da da, da da. But I totally get with what you're saying. Like, we're still a greater distance away from perfect autonomous cars than we think we're told we are.

[Matt Farah]

Right.

[Zach Klapman]

And it also doesn't solve the problems of traffic congestion, emissions, all that other stuff.

[Matt Farah]

And there's absolutely no evidence that autonomous cars will reduce fatalities. I mean, there's literally no evidence to show that.

[Zach Klapman]

Well, is that because they're just, they don't exist yet, really? Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Like, I'm not saying that there couldn't one day be evidence, but this is being pushed on a promise of safety and so far there is no evidence of that. Particularly when for the foreseeable decades, you have to mix autonomous cars with human driven cars. There's absolutely no proof at all. So they're pitching this as it's going to get safer, it's going to get safer, it's going to get safer. Meanwhile, it's not getting safer. And meanwhile, all of the while, yes, an autonomous car might not get drunk, might not get tired, might not have emotions that could result in it doing some dangerous shit. There's a hundred other things an autonomous car car might do that a human driver would never do. And there's. In this, in this book, there's a real interesting chapter on the, on the things that an autonomous car might do that a human, you know, could, might never do. And there's this discussion about if you built an autonomous car that obeyed the letter of the law perfectly, people wouldn't want it, it wouldn't be a good driving experience, it wouldn't be smooth, it would be slow. It would be very conservative. It might stop all the time and freak out and like.

[Zach Klapman]

Well, it shouldn't. Like, if you got a good one, huh? I said, then that's not a good system.

[Matt Farah]

If you got in an Uber, human driven Uber and that person obeyed every single rule of the law to the letter, you probably wouldn't have a good Uber experience. It would probably feel like they were driving really slow, really conservatively. You know what I mean? It's like, it's not something we think about, but we don't actually want, want a person or a computer to drive perfectly with the letter of the law. They'd seem like a rolling Roadblock.

[Zach Klapman]

I mean, the only time I can think of that actually being an issue is if you're on the highway and the car goes 65 and it was going 74, but in town or something. I mean, I've definitely. I've been with Uber and taxi drivers that are too bold or bold. And I've been with drivers that are. They're like, I'm keeping my license forever. This is my job. And they drive very gently, and it's slow and boring, but it also is not really a problem.

[Matt Farah]

Right. But the research quoted in this book seemed to indicate that people who had ridden in various forms of driverless taxi or who had taken surveys about their desires had indicated that if it was driving too conservatively, that that would not be an enjoyable experience that people would pay for.

[Zach Klapman]

I mean, I can understand, especially if you. If you're an active passenger, meaning, like, you're watching what the car or the driver's doing and they don't do what you would do. I mean, that frustrates humans in any topic. So if a car is going to parallel park and the autonomous car stops behind them and just waits for them to park, whereas you might go, well, you could go around. That lane's empty.

[Matt Farah]

Well, that's exactly the thing. Yeah. Like, maybe they don't go across the double yellow even though someone's double parked here or whatever.

[Zach Klapman]

That's a good point.

[Matt Farah]

And so that could lead to manufacturing manufacturers of AVs strategically loosening the permissions until the car was breaking laws and statistically more dangerous because it was breaking certain laws. But it offered an experience that the rider found to be better. You know, up to a point. And this is just me observing myself. If. Up to a point, if I take an Uber or a taxi and the driver isn't. I'm not talking about reckless, but if the driver is, like, driving in ways that might push legal boundaries a little bit so that I get somewhere on time, I consider that to be an elevated experience. And I realize the contradiction there. But, like, well, that's just how I feel.

[Zach Klapman]

But then I would say we would go back to the safety discussion, because if, I mean, we've both been in taxis, Uber rides, whatever, where I guess they're processing with their eyes what's ahead. They don't see pedestrians, maybe, whatever. But I've definitely been Ubers where the guy's going 15 over because he wants to make good time.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And sure, I make good time. But if someone stepped out of the darkness in that moment, they are hitting that person so then we go back to the human driver error situation and it's really just like is neither system gonna be perfect ever? Human or computer? And they're both. And right now human is far ahead of computer, right?

[Matt Farah]

It seems unlikely unless you have a world in which no weird things could happen. You'd have to ban all human driven cars. You'd have to keep pedestrians physically separate from roadways. You know, you'd have to basically turn all. You know the book goes far back enough to go to the invention of highways. I mean the invention of the highway single lane travel divided. You know that was going to be the savior because at that time almost all incidents were of perpendicular cross traffic. So we'll just eliminate cross traffic. So that was going to be the thing that made. But, but, and, and so they built all these fucking highways to. And that just made more people drive and move further out in the sprawl. Cuz it made driving easier. But it didn't reduce deaths. They just got different kinds of deaths.

[Zach Klapman]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

You know, it's like they keep doing these things going this is the one where we gonna reduce the deaths. But they never reduce the deaths. And yes they have reduced deaths probably per capita it up probably. But they've not reduced the number of deaths on the roadway to a nut to the below the number that in the 30s they thought was like murder on the roads. And in the meantime that's just because.

[Zach Klapman]

We get used to anything. I mean any catastrophes.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, but Also there's like 20 times the number of cars which has more. Creates more traffic and creates more this and creates more sprawl and creates more emissions and creates more everything. But it's all just, just in service of the book positions. Cars is really the ultimate consumer device because it's a big expensive, complicated thing that we as people have been programmed and I'm not better than this have been programmed to always want the new one. I mean it was about keep the consumer. This was a GM thing from back in the day. Keep the consumer perpetually dissatisfied. Meaning that's why GM in like the 50s would change the. They'd facelift the car every year. So you just want, you'd always want the new one even though underneath it was the same fucking car for like 12 years. You know, that kind of thing. So they always want you to think that the next one is going to be the one, the next one's going to be the one. And now and that strategy has worked for so long, that's now that and the regulation of it is so bad. And our society is positioned in such a up way to prioritize it that that's how you end up with, you know, last week's robo taxi trash. Because that is the sort of apex of the future that is promised us every 25 years or so. And it used to be called GM had a, like a festival for it. It was called Futurama, which is where the TV show name came from. There was Motorama and then Futurama and Autonoma is a take because it's literally like every 25 years they keep saying the future is now. And it's GM cars or Tesla cars or whatever that are going to give you this utopian future that you want where no one dies on the roads, no one sits in traffic, there's no emissions, and it's this, it's AI. AI is here and it's going to do it. So it's. Every time it was. It's the vacuum tube, it's the transistor, it's smart highways, it's fucking CPUs, and they just keep going, here it is, here it is, here it is. Buy another car. Instead of paint lines on the road differently or, you know, have a. Here's a train, here's a bus.

[Zach Klapman]

Right, yeah, that's true. I mean, their practice of the next thing is just around the corner or is here is like that's advertising. 101 now for every product. And that's not a good thing. It's interesting that I don't know if they created it, but it's obviously super effective. Like, well, and iPhone 16, you gotta get it, you know, I mean, any product. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

And humans don't have very good memories. So. Right. Just about the time that people forget that the promises of the last one were never fulfilled at all. Like, not even close. They go, we've got it this time, we're really doing it. This is the same bullshit again. It's hilarious. And we're all idiots.

[Zach Klapman]

Well, it's weird because technology is advancing.

[Matt Farah]

Yes.

[Zach Klapman]

But is it like, should we be excited about its advancement or should we be dissatisfied that it's not where it's promised it's going to be?

[Matt Farah]

Well, we should be dissatisfied because the thing that they promised the tech would do for us, it's not going to do. It hasn't done. And it's not going to do the thing that we actually want. Fewer deaths, cleaner air, less traffic would be solved with technology that already exists.

[Zach Klapman]

Right, yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Nothing new needs to be invented. We just need to make different choices at the policy level.

[Zach Klapman]

True, I think, but they go, well, if people want their cars or they've been tricked to want their cars or whatever, how do we reduce deaths, emissions, those things with those cars and that is emissions are down.

[Matt Farah]

Right. But they could just stop doing the bad thing, which is convincing people that car dependency is the way to this utopia.

[Zach Klapman]

Right? They could, but no car company is going to do that.

[Matt Farah]

No, they're not. But that's why we need fucking the government to do it. But the government has been born, bought by the car companies, right?

[Zach Klapman]

Well, every industry.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, yeah, but like that's, you know, you, you. There are places in the world that have. That's why going to Spain and reading this was such a pain in the ass. Because there's. There are places that don't have this, where they made different decisions. I mean, Amsterdam, great example, great place. And by the way, car ownership there is almost as high as it is in America. The rate of car ownership. People own cars, people love cars and people love driving. In Holland it was rated as one of the happiest places to drive a car. But also they prioritized cycling and street cars and other forms of transit in the city center. And so people, even people who own cars, use their car a lot less because they have other options. And they use the cars more to get to other cities and less for local trips because they have prioritized other methods.

[Zach Klapman]

I was Googling if lobbying is legal in other. Which countries it's legal in because that obviously would have a huge effect on things. But I can't find.

[Matt Farah]

That's a very complicated thing to try to fucking five seconds ago in five seconds. But either way, I mean, you don't have to agree with me if you really, really, really, really think that everyone having their own car is the way forward. You can disagree with me, that's fine. Leave a comment. But I thought it was a good book. And apparently this guy's other book, which is called Fighting Traffic, is even better. And I'm going to start that one now.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, I think people should look at what your goal is for a day in terms of like, where do you want to get to? And then sometimes a car is the best solution, but sometimes a train or a subway is the best solution. And instead of like, well, I want to be able to sit and have my music, which you can do in a train. I mean, there's a lot of things where you, like, look at what your objective is and then you can figure out the best solution for it instead of being told that the best solution will apply to any objective.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, but like people, you know, there are posters and advertisements and stuff for these Futurama things that are saying, saying, self driving cars will be here in 20 years. In the 30s, in the 50s. In the 70s, it was self driving cars will be here in 20 years.

[Zach Klapman]

Can you imagine seeing that? I mean, I guess hindsight and all that stuff, like going, if we got in a time machine and went back to the 30s and they're like, self driving cars will be here. And you'd be like, with what system?

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

What gear and pulley thing are you gonna have?

[Matt Farah]

No, but it, Yeah, I mean it was. They were talking about putting magnetic strips in the road that your car would then, you know, track onto.

[Zach Klapman]

Wow.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. I mean, and which is hilarious because.

[Zach Klapman]

It'S, you know, I guess it's. It's a voluntary train. It gets on there, it gets on a train line and then it gets off.

[Matt Farah]

That's kind of pretty much. Yeah. And actually in a lot of the systems, it was like, it was actually kind of neat. It was like you would drive on the surface streets and then you would hook onto the thing and it would. On the highway. I was like, well, okay. And if you didn't have a scientific mind of the day, you know, you're a regular fucking Joe. You go, okay. They could make that into something that works in exactly the same way that people today are like, you just don't understand this is gonna work. We make this work. And you go, well, I'm not a software engineer, so like, maybe I don't know. And like, but there's still six so many fucking holes in it. There's so many holes in it.

[Zach Klapman]

And I under, like, I understand why that is. I don't want to say effective. It's not like a trick. Like there are people who have a specialty and the rest of us who don't. And they go, here's your life jacket. And you're like, I didn't make the life jacket. I trust that the person who made the life jacket knows how to make life jackets. Usually it works, airplane engineering, all that stuff.

[Matt Farah]

But there is so much money to be made in bullshitting your way through pretending you are about to have an autonomous car. You can get so rich if you can convince people that in 10 years it doesn't need to work today. If you convince people that you're four.

[Zach Klapman]

Years ago, five years ago. I mean, when autonomy became the. It was the investment topic of whatever, two years and Then all of a sudden, it just. I mean, that whole pool drained, right? And everything got pulled and so many companies shut down. But for a while, it was. Everyone's throwing a billion dollars at any.

[Matt Farah]

And now it's AI and they think that AI and autonomy can go hand in hand, hand when. If you know the fucking littlest bit about either of those things, that's not how either of those systems work at all.

[Zach Klapman]

Well, AI is like a rebrand of just computers.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, well, most AI is just.

[Zach Klapman]

Is a completely worse word.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. It doesn't actually mean that there's no actual intelligence there. It's just like, oh, you can scour the Internet faster than any human alive and summarize it. All right, cool. But that ain't driving. Driving. And let me tell you something. Landing a airplane or a rocket, that ain't driving either. There's no pedestrian pushing a cart right across the Runway. You know, like, it's not. Like, it's not impressive, but it ain't driving. It's a different thing. If I was like, yo, I am a virtuoso on the saxophone. I can fucking rip through Beethoven's seventh with my eyes closed after only hearing it once. And you go, well, if you did that, that's so impressive. You must be able to make a watch, because what you did was so impressive there.

[Zach Klapman]

Right?

[Matt Farah]

They have nothing to do with each other. Nothing.

[Zach Klapman]

And even closer, I'd be like, you must be amazing at guitar. Well, it's gonna take me a minute because the actors are totally different.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Like, these are just not the same skills that people are like, well, that's hard. And smart people had to do it, so. And someone somewhere said that they would never do it, and they did it, so they must be able to do anything.

[Zach Klapman]

No, that is a flaw of the human brain, is you've done this. Therefore I trust you to do other things.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

That's how so many people think that about themselves.

[Matt Farah]

People think, oh, shit, I was. I was so good at basketball. I'm gonna. I must be great at running a Chevy dealership. You don't want to buy a Blazer from John Elway Chevrolet.

[Zach Klapman]

I mean, I think his dealership network's quite successful.

[Matt Farah]

I think it is. But he probably leaves it alone, right? Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

You let other people do. I mean, then you're just the advertising. That's all that is. You know, whether or not you can actually run the business. Who knows?

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. But it's. It's just. It's. These are not the same skills.

[Zach Klapman]

It's Just there's a lot of variables with cars. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. And people like to pretend that they're easy to solve and they're not. So there was that. What the else is going on? Ferrari launched a new hypercar.

[Zach Klapman]

F80.

[Matt Farah]

F80. It's important to name your hypercars after chassis codes of BMW M3s. That's good branding. Real good SEO on that. I saw the car and I heard this video.

[Zach Klapman]

You see it in person?

[Matt Farah]

No.

[Zach Klapman]

Okay.

[Matt Farah]

Did not see it in person. I saw. I saw this and I. And I heard the video that it's up there and boy, does it not do anything for me. Does this car do anything for you, Zach?

[Zach Klapman]

I want to see it in person. My initial reaction is not very excited just because, I don't know, I feel like they have so many pretty cars right now, and I don't think this is one of them. So a big thing for me is just, do I like the way it looks? Yeah, that's like always my first go to with a car. And this one just seems really busy compared to like the 296 is such a clean shape. Right.

[Matt Farah]

Or Even the Daytona SP3 is such a clean shape too.

[Zach Klapman]

So I don't know if this is more like, you know, AMG1 science experiment. It needs all these systems and vents and wings to function, and they're going for maximum attacks speed. Like the black at the front of the bumper, I think looks a little bit weird.

[Matt Farah]

It does.

[Zach Klapman]

And obviously you can get that in different colors when you pay the money for it, but I don't know. And then performance wise, it's not really Ferrari's fault because we just. There are a lot of really fast hypercars out there that go all right. They're going to have electric motors and they're going to have turbocharged engines and stuff. And what does it. It has to deliver? I think what's hard is it does it deliver something different. And it's not like Ferrari wants to be different from company A and company B and company C. But if you don't have the V12 sound, so you lose that and you're just delivering twin turbo V6 with front and electric motors. Then how do people separate from other cars?

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, I mean, this formula, it. It actually. It's somehow like worse than the SF90. Like the SF90 had the twin turbo V8, right. With front motors, and that wasn't great.

[Zach Klapman]

Well, what do we. What do we not like about that? I mean, the SF90, for me, it was heavy. It was very heavy. It didn't look different enough. That was one of the big issues.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

No. 1. So this definitely. People will see it and they go, oh, you spent the $2 million.

[Matt Farah]

Yes.

[Zach Klapman]

But if it feels. I don't know if it'll be lighter than SF90 or if it will feel just as heavy.

[Matt Farah]

It certainly should be lighter than SF90, but it's. I don't. I just. When I saw the Daytona SP3, I was like, oh, that's. That is like, that's a gorgeous shape that. It's got some retro and some future. It looks like it was designed by someone's hand.

[Zach Klapman]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

This car looks like they put it into fucking AI. Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

Like, you know, like this looks like.

[Matt Farah]

A chat GP designed hypercar. Like I. There's nothing about that car. Take off the badge. Right. And the giant scooter is shield on the side of it. There's very little about that to me that says Ferrari.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, I feel like the back wheel arch and fender hump looks a little bit reminiscent of 296, but otherwise I agree. It all just looks so different.

[Matt Farah]

That lower side scoop that's blacked out there looks like a Murciel.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, a little bit.

[Matt Farah]

And huge. Yeah, it just like, it just, it just visually does absolutely nothing for me. And then I heard it go by in the, in the clip, in the drive by and it. And it doesn't sound like anything either. It sounds like a 296. I mean, I'm sure there's something different, but look at the, the SP3. I mean, that, that is a gorgeous design. It's got curves, you know, it's got just the right amount of throwback.

[Zach Klapman]

Like this whole back is just perfect.

[Matt Farah]

The front end really works, particularly if you've seen, you know, a P34 or something from the 60s. It's a very cohesive design. Plus it's got a naturally aspirated V12, which for that kind of money, I think customers have spoken. And for these seven figure price tags, they want, you know, the kind of engines that are not going into the regular cars.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, I think that's probably true, but that may just not be possible. I think the question here is, does Ferrari have to start downsizing their cylinders for EU rigs? That's the world we live in. So, you know, they can't deliver that anymore. We can want that all we want.

[Matt Farah]

But can they did just come out.

[Zach Klapman]

With the 12, the Solindi? Yeah, but I don't. And I. Maybe someone in the industry can speak to this, but if they have A certain number. You know, if they have an emissions count of 100.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And they just spent 85 of it on that V12. They went, all right, our front, our front engine car is known. I mean, that's where they began, front engine V12 cars. So that's their flagship V12. And if the hypercars, they can shrink the package, they can make the engine smaller, they can move the, you know, the center of gravity more toward the middle, even better. And they can add the, you know, front wheel drive electric motor system so the launch is better and it keeps up with, you know, whatever. Then they made that choice.

[Matt Farah]

I don't know, they'll probably sell them all. I mean, Ferrari customers are hilarious. They'll buy literally anything as long as they get invited to buy the next thing.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, I mean, they'll buy like actual garbage.

[Matt Farah]

I mean, it's amazing to me what you could convince either. I mean, and this is not exclusive. Lambo, Porsche, same thing. They'll buy fucking anything as long as they keep the keys to the kingdom going for the next thing.

[Zach Klapman]

And look, we are not the target market for this. I mean, we're car enthusiasts, obviously. Like, we used, I mean, used to drool over supercars, hypercars all the time. It may just be that it's saturated. There are so many companies beyond the flagship 4 that used to make hypercars that now make them, and there's a lot of competition. And like you said, when the recipe of this is front electric motor hybrid System, Twin Turbo V6, we go, well, we have that in the Artura, basically, and the Corvette E Ray, not far off from that. I understand they're in different markets, but it's no longer a totally unique powertrain that you can't obtain unless you spend $2 million. Right.

[Matt Farah]

That's why Gordon Murray and anyone who's doing a bugatti with this 16 cylinder thing, even though there is a hybrid system there, I mean, an NA16 cylinder is going to produce a sound that you can't get anywhere. El.

[Zach Klapman]

Right. It's what is the experience? And so if the experience used to be the feeling of driving the car and people recognize it, plus the sound, plus the performance, and the more money you spent, the more all of those experiences got turned up towards 10 or 11. And now if the sound is the same as the 296, so that experience is now a wash. And if the performance, I mean, hopefully this is way fucking faster. Like you need to really separate those things.

[Matt Farah]

But on the street, you know, what's the difference between 80, 850 and 1200 horsepower.

[Zach Klapman]

Nothing. So now on the street, it's really. I mean, it has been for a long time. It's about recognition.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

I'm driving the $2 million one. You have the 500,000. And I don't think that will ever go away because the people that can spend this kind of money, like, you know, you're buying that sort of advertisement, and that will always be there.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

But I think you are losing the tactile aspects.

[Matt Farah]

Sure.

[Zach Klapman]

Experiences.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, I agree. But like LaFerrari, the idea of it being a hybrid, it didn't. Didn't really do much for me. But I can't argue that it's a gorgeous car. And to see one in person is a real visual impact.

[Zach Klapman]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

The Daytona. Even better. Drop the hybrid nav 12. Who gives a. How much power does it make? I don't care. It's a difference a bunch. It makes enough. It's a naturally aspirated V12. It's exactly what I want out of that car. It. I don't care if it's 700 or 800 or whatever.

[Zach Klapman]

I mean, it's like an 812, basically.

[Matt Farah]

That great. Fine. You know.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

But to go from an NA12 to a twin turbo six with a three electric motors like, WA. WA.

[Zach Klapman]

I think you and I are in a fortunate position and where we. Because we've driven so many things, we. We get to come out that other side and go. More horsepower is not always better. No, it hasn't been for a while. But if you. I think a lot of people, general car enthusiasts, they just look at that number and they. And if you put out. If the new. Whatever it's called, F80, had 100 less horsepower than the competition, people on the Internet would go, why would you buy this? It has less power. They're very simple. It's very quantifiable. And they. Ferrari probably knows that, like, you have to keep up, and that's the perpetual horsepower problem.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. So we're gonna end up with worse cars.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

And there's a new GT3. 992.2 GT3.

[Zach Klapman]

And it's expensive.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, it's 53 grand more. That one was predictable. Porsche went. You know, it's the same thing. You know, there was a quote from a Rolex dealer from. That was from maybe two years ago, and he basically said, you know, if I allocate my customer a stainless steel Daytona, I'm basically handing them a check for $20,000. Because we sell this at Retail and you could take it and there's nothing stopping you from the next day selling it and making a $20,000 profit. So every time I sell one of these to somebody, I'm handing them $20,000, which is, you know, that's their experience. And these, they're not wrong.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

And so same thing with GT3s. If every GT3 out the door at retail is handing the customer a check, either the handing the customer a check for 20 or 30 grand because they could flip it, or handing the dealer a check for 20 or 30 grand because they can put ADM on it, then why does, you know, Porsche, the company, not want their cut?

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, I mean, this will help Porsche profit hugely. And you're semi public now, so I'm sure there were discussions, like the cars we're selling for 3, 4, $500,000 and the dealers were getting all the benefit, so why would the factory not want to get that? It makes total sense.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And I just, I guess, I hope the dealerships don't mark up beyond this the same way they have been. I mean, the market forces will dictate that people going to stand for a $500,000 GT3 instead of paying that much money for an ST. Well, look, I.

[Matt Farah]

Mean, the naturally aspirated manual transmission car is few and far between. If you want to have that kind of experience, this is what it's going to cost. And so it's a bummer. But like, but it's, you know, same. It's in some ways the same. They've done lightweight packages for both the regular gt, the Touring. They've. They've tried to separate the Touring a little bit. You can get a back seat. It's got the, the leaked bow package, which is a light weighting package that's sort of not all the way to an ST. Maybe a third. Third or halfway to an ST. They've shortened the final drive a little bit. 8% shortened final drive.

[Zach Klapman]

You revised the shock valve or not the valving, but the programming is a little bit more like the st. Softer.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. On the Touring it should be. Right.

[Zach Klapman]

Well, I read that the settings between the two are the same.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, they are.

[Zach Klapman]

So it's like just like the 992.1. The wing or no wing, they feel the same, but they have taken. I mean, the ST was almost like an R and D car. And then they put. I don't know how much of the programming of those suspension systems went into these new cars, but hopefully they do ride more softly. Better.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, but it Looks great. I mean it's, it looks exactly kind of like what, what you would hope. They're doing lithium ion batteries, new lithium ion battery now, which means that I'm going to have to buy a bunch more lithium ion tenders and you know, I can't wait to drive it. I'm sure it'll be great. I mean if it, if it is the same as before but. But rides like the ST are closer to it. That's a good thing.

[Zach Klapman]

They changed, you know, like 100 things in little ways and I'm sure it will add up to feeling different because they're good at that.

[Matt Farah]

But they're, you know, they're running out of ways to improve this engine meaningfully. You know, it's, they're. They've put the RS stuff on there and they're pulling weight and they're changing little bits. I'll be interested to see, you know what, what they. Because this engine is now getting on, you know, 10 years and so it's, it will be interesting to see what kind of life is left it. I mean it's a great engine and it serves this car and the 4Rs and spider RS etc etc very well. Porsche obviously is not interested in pushing the displacement past four leaders. They have their reasons for that. But I don't know if there's a lot more they can squeeze out of it. I mean there's not. I don't. There aren't really any four O's out there that are making a whole lot more power than this one. So usually if they pull power past it it's because they've punched out the disposal replacement. But I bet it'll be nice to drive. So that is pretty exciting. Love a new GT3 and I'm sure we'll get a new. I mean, did they officially launch the Carreras? I mean they launched the base Carrera and the GTS at the same time. Have they done. Have they officially done the new Carrera S yet? I don't think they have. I don't think. I mean, is there a new career S? No more career. Oh, Port Renlist says that they're. Dave. What? That's not right. What is that post?

[Zach Klapman]

This one?

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, the top one. No more. When is this for from? This is from July reading from press in Taiwan that 992.2 Carrera S is no longer in production because the performance gap are too close to each other. I dis. I don't think that's necessarily true.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, it's a forum post.

[Matt Farah]

I think There will be. I think there will be a career S starting later. This seems like speculation later this year or next year. I think the career S will be a lot like last year's GTS and available with the manual transmission. Should we go to the Patreon?

[Zach Klapman]

Yes, that's. I was just organizing.

[Matt Farah]

Let's do that. The Patreon is where you can get in on the game. You can ask us questions for the show. You can watch the stream live. You can get the show before everybody else does. You get an extra show every month and you can get a totally ad free listening or watching [e-mail] the Smoking Tire Podcast. Not to mention those, those Patreon supporters are the only real way that this show keeps going because the ad model is very rapidly dying and supporting creators directly is just a much better model. And in fact, Brian Scotto is going to come back on the show. Did you see I put that on the calendar? Zach, he wants to go for the record. He wants to go for the radio record. All right, so I don't know what the longest show we've ever done was. I think it's probably three hours maybe, but I've blocked it off for four hours, so.

[Zach Klapman]

All right.

[Matt Farah]

Right. Martin Bueno says thoughts on the F8. Oh, see, this is why Martin says thoughts on the F80 and its legacy. It took me three times reading that question to see that he was not talking about an M3.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, the name. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

All right, well, we already talked about that. And okay. Elias says looking for a great weekend convertible. So far I'm looking at SL55, Mercedes, Maserati Gran Turismo S, BMW 650i or similar. Budget is 30k with 5k left over for maintenance. I would be very. These are tough, depreciated luxury GTs. The SL55 was a great car and is now 20 plus years old. And so I don't know how they have really held up since I last looked. The Maserati Gran Turismo S seems like a pretty good value for 30,000 bucks, but 5k leftover for maintenance might be a little, little low because those can be really expensive to fix. I don't think a BMW 650i is a great choice.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, that 5000 is not enough.

[Matt Farah]

I'd rather have for 30k. Can you get an E92 or E90 whatever, M3 convertible?

[Zach Klapman]

Oh, let's find out. Cars and bins.

[Matt Farah]

I would rather have an E92 M3 convertible than a 650 convertible. The SL55 is not bad. That's not a bad choice. That's a stout powertrain. I don't think they're like super problematic, but they do have air suspension, which could kind of scare me a little bit. I mean, you can't get a Lexus LC500 that cheap.

[Zach Klapman]

No, there's still.

[Matt Farah]

Let's see. Wait. Okay. Results 2009.

[Zach Klapman]

They're all kind of here.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, dude, here, look at this one. 2000. Oh, that's a coupe. Where's convertible?

[Zach Klapman]

Right here.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, yes. You can absolutely get an M3 convertible for under 30 grand. 100%.

[Zach Klapman]

25 grand. 26 grand.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

Rod bearings are all day unmodified.

[Matt Farah]

And then keep. Then you've got 10 grand for maintenance. Yeah, I would get an M3 vehicle convertible. Yeah, that would be. That would be where I'm at for. I think you've got great dynamics. You've got that back seat if you need it. You've got a car with a very well supported aftermarket. You know, if you wanted to upgrade it later. The DCT is pretty good.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, it's totally, totally fine. Yeah, it's quick enough. They sound really good. I saw a fake E90 convertible M3 on my street. It had like. I just saw the S65 vent badge and I went, not real.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And then the vents on the hood were down near the headlights instead of being where they are on this car. And I walked around the back and it said M3. But the hips were all narrow and they had four exhaust. Like, they're lying. They're really covering.

[Matt Farah]

They're convincingly lying to people who. It's funny, like putting those vents in the wrong places. Like you could have just looked at a photo. Like you didn't even look. Yeah, you were like, it's got vents on hood.

[Zach Klapman]

Like, dude.

[Matt Farah]

Old rusty bimmer. What is the best color slash wrap you've seen on a cybertruck?

[Zach Klapman]

A matte white somehow looked good. And I mean, I've seen. I think I've seen like a cool bronze one, but it didn't. I like the wrap color. I didn't think it made it like look great. It looked better. I do think it looks better than the stainless. Yeah, but it doesn't. Like, it's a minor improvement.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, I mean, I guess I've seen like matt black. I mean, I don't really think any of them look good. I haven't seen one that I think actually really improves anything. I mean, I think the things in where those guys have polished it and it looks like chrome. I think that looks neat for like a second.

[Zach Klapman]

I think it's super polished steel.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And it's even brighter.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, it turns into chrome.

[Zach Klapman]

Oh, my God.

[Matt Farah]

Like, it's polished polish. Like it looks like a fishing mirror. Like a fishing lure. Yeah. Look at the fiction pictures of it.

[Zach Klapman]

It's the wrong time of day. You're gonna blind it.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, it's so dangerous. It. There's a. There's a reason we don't make cars that look like this.

[Zach Klapman]

Oh, boy.

[Matt Farah]

I mean, it's. It's very sketchy. Yeah. Yeah, it's extremely sketchy. Whoa. Mm. But like, in that, you know, in that photo, like, it does look better like that, I think improves it for a photo, not for something you're actually driving around. Wow. Yeah. Like real dangerous.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. I mean, that is kind of cool. I don't think it's unsafe.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

But as someone. When, you know, whenever I drive past those fuel trucks that are very polished and I look at my own car and I'm like, we. You know, this would do that. It's almost like. It almost looks like camouflage up here because it's reflecting the lawn across the street.

[Matt Farah]

Totally. It almost makes if in the right. And same with the one that's on the screen on the right. It looks like you're just, like, seeing through it. Yeah. There's a reason you shouldn't do that.

[Zach Klapman]

I understand why people are doing it. That own the truck. And I am afraid to drive next to 1 at 5pm yeah. When the sun just goes bing, bing.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Imagine the headlights that reflect back at you. I mean, just blind you.

[Zach Klapman]

Well, those headlights will be blinding. There's blinding headlights everywhere. There's an investigation happening, I think, in the EU about LED headlights.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, really?

[Zach Klapman]

The glare? Yeah. Because it's just. It is a global complaint.

[Matt Farah]

And I'm glad you look at that. I went to get new glasses. I'm getting progressive glasses now, which are like the ones that sort of. They're like what you used to call bifocals, but it blends. And so I redid my prescription, which is slightly different now.

[Zach Klapman]

But.

[Matt Farah]

But something about my eyes, like, at night, it makes little. Like if I have, like, oncoming headlights, it makes a little bit of flare. Oh, I think it.

[Zach Klapman]

In the glasses.

[Matt Farah]

No, no, like in, like life. Oh.

[Zach Klapman]

It just has a sparkly thing to it. Yeah, mine does that too.

[Matt Farah]

You're from Matt's cast Cats. Matt. Based on the recent humanoid robot idea, I suspect Elon has recently seen the movie IR Robot. Could you review your theory about how he's only seen two movies? Yes, he. Really? Well, I think he's seen more movies since then, but as of like a couple years ago, he had definitely only seen Total Recall and Spaceballs. But he's clearly moved on past actual whimsical jokes into the post apocalyptic future things. Who was it? Some comic I just saw the other day was like, how come, how come like no movie in the future is ever like happy? Like how come the future is like, oh, I think it might have been Marc Merritt actually, who's like, how come every, every movie that takes place in the future is like massively problematic? Not the movie, but like the future is fucked up. NK thoughts on a 2021 Range Rover Sport SVR with 10,000 miles. Not a bad car. Actually. Those are pretty cool. They're loud and really obnoxious and 10,000 miles is not very much. But extended warranty, you're gonna want that.

[Zach Klapman]

Yep.

[Matt Farah]

I mean just Range Rovers are really expensive to fix, so get an extended warranty. But dynamically those things are pretty red. Yeah, I mean that was the press launch where we drove on an off road course in Monticello, drove through the trees, over some like logs and shit, some boulders, and then drove up onto this metal rack. They power washed the car, we put our helmets on and we drove straight onto the racetrack. That was neat.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, they're pretty rad.

[Matt Farah]

They're pretty versatile.

[Zach Klapman]

Hatchback.

[Matt Farah]

Pretty versatile. Colin S. Are there any cars that are good daily drivers but can do decent in autocross? I'm currently driving a Veloster N, but looking for more. Something more comfortable for work, commute. I mean, sure, right. Autocross. There's plenty of like sporty cars that do well at autocross, like GTIs and golf. Rs do well at autocross. I mean you're already in the right type of car. I mean, so you want to more comfortable. Does that mean you want an Elantra N?

[Zach Klapman]

That would kick ass in Autocross.

[Matt Farah]

They're good at autocross.

[Zach Klapman]

They're bigger than the Veloster for sure and you're familiar with the brand.

[Matt Farah]

Or a Civic Type R or Integra Type S. Those would be good at autocross.

[Zach Klapman]

GR86 would be fun, decent, daily.

[Matt Farah]

Probably not more comfortable for work than the Veloster you could get. I mean, I don't know what your budget is, but a Mercedes, a GLA 45 or CLA 45, those would be good at autocross.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. Depends on the price point, right?

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. I mean, dude, electric cars are good at autocross. Model 3 performance, you're always in the right gear. You've always got good torque.

[Zach Klapman]

That would probably smoke a lot of the other hatchback options just because of instant.

[Matt Farah]

Dude, a Model 3 performance with like sticky tires on it will roast things at an autocross.

[Zach Klapman]

That's a good point. Comfortable? Do you need more space? Do you want to be so. I mean, that's the thing. You want to be softer.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

Better seats, you know, ergonomically, just if you move up market. Although the new Elantra n those seats are some of the best seats I've sat in this year.

[Matt Farah]

You still have to be the right size.

[Zach Klapman]

That's true.

[Matt Farah]

But if you are the right size, great.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, yeah, it's a bunch of stuff.

[Matt Farah]

BMW 2 series, you get like a 240. Yeah, they're good. They're good at autocross.

[Zach Klapman]

I mean, although the turbo lag, like something with more instant power. Well, everything's charged nowadays.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, I mean really, you want to really be good at autocross. An electric, a low. A low electric sedan with all wheel drive.

[Zach Klapman]

That would be best for the money. That would be the best, most comfortable, best autocross car. Yeah, probably.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

Unless you want to jump up to like a Corvette and that's less comfortable because it'll be louder on the highway.

[Matt Farah]

And all that stuff lacks silk lock, silver are rolling restos. Dumb context. I've got an old BMW that's mechanically sorted and perfect. It needs paint, interior, ac and audio. I want to do one thing at a time and I can drive it intermittently, but there will be redundant tasks. Example, removing the cracked dash, taking the dash out and in multiple times. You know, it's a headache. Should I drive it as is until I can afford to do everything. Well, I mean, it depends on how you value your time versus how you value the use of the car in between those tasks. If you're going to do one of those tasks a year for the next three years and in the meantime you want to drive the car like okay. If you're okay with the car being down for six months. Months. And you can do all the while you're in theirs, you know, and also like make a little spreadsheet and go, well, what, what, what do I have to take apart to get to each thing and see where it overlaps. And maybe you could do like, maybe you can do the ac, you know, maybe you could do the interior altogether and then the exterior altogether and have two projects instead of like seven.

[Zach Klapman]

I Think it just matters to me. It's like I think rolling Restos are fine. I've seen people do it successfully and I think it's. I'm not proud of them. Like, I admire that. I respect that people especially if I see the progress over, you know, weeks or months at car things. And as long as it's not your only car, like if you've taken the dash out of your whole thing and you do the ac, like driving around with no dash and just steering column jutting out, you can. But I think that for me that kind of friction would make me not do that project. I go, oh well, I need to drive to work. Am I going to take the dash out? Maybe I'll do it. Maybe I'll do it over Christmas or something. I mean, and you could do that budget the holiday time or whatever. But if you have a second car, I say go for it because then you don't have to rely on this thing if it is down for three years.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, yeah. Unpredictability could really throw some wrenches into that one too. Yeah. If it was me, I'm a big fan of the while you're in there and I would do it all together, but I'd also be paying other people to do it. And so it wouldn't just be like, well, it's annoying to take the dash out. It's. I have to pay this person to take the dash out, put it back in, take it out again, put it back in. And so if it's already out and I just have to buy these different parts to put back in, I'd rather do that. Mr. Meowge says, does something like an understated high powered travel in style cars still exist in today's market or does everything have to be flashy SUVs with weird body kits? I mean, lucid.

[Zach Klapman]

There's a. I think there's a lot of understated.

[Matt Farah]

I think there's a lot of these. A lot of understated, high powered cars. I mean the average car has as much power as a supercar from the 80s. Right. So like if you're talking about. I suspect what they're talking about is the personal luxury coupe, which is a genre of car that doesn't really exist so much today. Right. Where you had a big coupe.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. You have to jump to sedan. Sorry, I didn't mean to stop.

[Matt Farah]

No, no, no, whatever.

[Zach Klapman]

Two door, big engine, travel and style by yourself.

[Matt Farah]

I mean. Yeah, they have some of those. I mean, I don't know about understated Because I think that people who buy big coupes do want something that looks good, like an LC 500 or a Mercedes, you know, an SL or an AMG GT. I mean, so how understated are we really talking?

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, I think the LC and the SL are the most understated of things available today. I think the lucid is even more subtle. But it's a four door car. But that's just a sign of one. We need more air in the front end, like grills. BMW is out of its mind. But most cars have larger grills, so that means there's larger things. The headlights have gotten bigger. Everything has gotten a little bit more extreme and a little bit less subtle just because of the hardware that's underneath those things. But then of course, of course there are some companies that go real aggressive and they want you to like the XM or, you know, the X5. Like they want you to notice that car as soon as it's coming down the road. Yeah, I think Mercedes is a little bit more subtle even with those larger grilles.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, I mean, there are definitely understated fast stuff out there, like the Audi RS6 or. This is not a drive impression because I could say this about the last one too, because I drove it in Spain, the new one, the Audi rsq, which is in most ways an Urus. But it looks, you know, fairly normal, right? Certainly. I mean, the BMW M5, I just saw, I just saw an M5 yesterday. That was like a really. It was from the last two years, but it was like a pretty low equipment one. It didn't have big flashy wheels. It wasn't a competition. And at first I didn't notice that it was an M5. I mean, it would look just like a 5 series with the little, the little vent on the side. And it was only when I went, oh, there's an M5. Because it was like a subtle build. So like that. I mean, Panameras, that's a pretty stealthy.

[Zach Klapman]

Way to be fast.

[Matt Farah]

I mean, a black Panamera, I mean, yes, there's some parts of America where you won't see a lot of Panameras, but in a major metro area, a Panamera is not something that people are looking at twice. Yeah, or the Audi S8, you know, they still make the fucking S8.

[Zach Klapman]

I didn't know that. I mean, just don't look at it. We don't get, we don't see.

[Matt Farah]

I don't. When was the last time you saw an S8? Like never.

[Zach Klapman]

And I would Also never. I would not call the Panamera or the Cayenne or, like, flashy. I think they try to do things.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

Their design language is very smooth and organic.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. I mean, you could. You could spec one that's kind of flashy, but they could be understood. Stated for sure. Joe Curran says the Million Mile Lexus restoration was just finished. Do you have plans to do a video with it? I don't know that it's. That it's finished. Finished. I know they were getting there. I follow those guys on Instagram. Is it actually. If it's actually done? I mean, Freddie said that when it was done and they'd finished the content, that he would sell it back to me for the same dollar that I sold it to him.

[Zach Klapman]

Let me see.

[Matt Farah]

So it wasn't Freddie that was doing the actual work on it. Freddy's like, buddy, who I unfortunately cannot remember the name of right now, has another channel and was like a Lexus tech.

[Zach Klapman]

Okay. So two days ago, a guy named Elsewhere World, it says, it's. The tagline says in this episode, the million mile Lexus is completed, parentheses, maybe, and taken for a test drive.

[Matt Farah]

Okay, so they're getting there. Yeah, this was a. It was a. This was a project. But Freddie told me that the engine was in amazing shape. They had to reseal the engine because it was, like, leaking oil and some of the seals are bad. But he said, like, the engine internals, like, didn't need anything.

[Zach Klapman]

Wow, great. Such a good engine.

[Matt Farah]

So, I mean, that was the plan. The plan was that when they finished it, that I would buy it back for a dollar and then maybe drive it back here, which could be fun.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. Great.

[Matt Farah]

It would be nice to have that thing back.

[Zach Klapman]

That thing's awesome.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

Oh, we could race that versus the Bentley.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, that would be fun.

[Zach Klapman]

Yes.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, that would be a fun one. So, yeah, I mean, that's the plan. I hope that I get to buy it back for a dollar when it's done. I don't.

[Zach Klapman]

I don't know who this is.

[Matt Farah]

I know. I know who this question is about, but I don't. I don't. Sorry. For those. For those not understanding what I'm doing right now, I'm reading a question that's asking about a tuning shop in California. What's the deal with. And the honest truth is I don't follow whatever it is that they're doing. So I don't have an answer. Sam England says, for the people who say the GT3RS makes a good daily and street car what drugs are they on? Had the opportunity to drive one for a day in the Black Forest in Germany last week. It's a monster, but very harsh. Give me a GTS any day of the week over that thing.

[Zach Klapman]

Correct.

[Matt Farah]

That's what we said in our video.

[Zach Klapman]

Yep.

[Matt Farah]

I mean, it's. It, that car. I. I drove it in the canyon. Not, not just the day that we filmed, which was in the wet, but I, I led a drive of our WCCS members with it. 150 Mile Canyon Drive. I was so tired at the end of that drive. That car beat me up so bad. I think the people who say that that car is a good daily or street car, I think some of them have confirmation bias. They buy one, they spend a lot of money, they spec it out just how they like it, it shows up. And maybe it's not as bad to them as they heard us say, you know, okay, they're not as tired by it as us. All right, fine. Maybe their frame of reference is last year's GT3Rs. And compared to that, it's not that much worse. But I think that's not a car I'd want to own as a streetcar.

[Zach Klapman]

No. I thought it was way too stiff on the street, you know, even in the canyons. Unless you're on the smoothest canyon in the world, racetrack glass smooth, you're going to feel a lot of the little bumps. And I found it annoying, which is why, I mean, the ST got so much praise.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

Because it was better than driving on normal roads.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

So I agree with you. I think people just. It's the hot thing and people want to. No one wants to admit either. There's a bunch of things like if you go, if you say it's too stiff, half the crowd will probably say that you're weak.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And that's dumb. I mean, when we said it was too stiff, Johnny, I remember him going like, you guys are idiots. Like, all right, well, that's what you like. We don't like it. We both think it's too stiff. And maybe if your ratio of driving is mostly canyon and fun and you just go, yeah, you put up with it on the street, but it is a bouncy thing.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Here's one for Zach. Arun P. Would it be a bad idea to daily an E46M3 25 to 30,000 already has a BRZ for a daily and. But he wants the BRZ to only be a track day car. Work from home wouldn't be a true commuter daily. A hundred miles week I don't see a problem with that.

[Zach Klapman]

I think it'd be great.

[Matt Farah]

Save some maintenance money.

[Zach Klapman]

Right?

[Matt Farah]

But if he's got another car. Backup car.

[Zach Klapman]

Backup car is good. I really like the car is comfortable, it's a good size, it's usable, it's smooth and quiet on the highway. It is a really good kind of do everything car. Hopefully you drive it more than just like stop and go traffic errands because the thing really shines in twisty roads and like, you know, touring stuff. But yeah, you're not really dailying it, you're weekending it. That's the right thing to do with the car. When I daily the car, more things broke and I started to lament owning it because I was like, all I'm doing is sitting in stop and go traffic. I should get a fucking volt. But now that I'm not doing that anymore because I can walk or bike to work, I don't have those thoughts anymore. So I say go for it.

[Matt Farah]

Break, Diego. Break. I don't know the essence of the username, but that's good. Or the were the history. History of it, but that's good. Congrats to Zach and Sarah. If you're comfortable sharing. When did you each know you found the one first boner?

[Zach Klapman]

I don't. I don't know. I think it just. I mean, it just built over time. But we. The first week we met, the way we were talking to each other, people thought we had known each other for years. And we said, no, no, we met three days ago. And they're like, that doesn't make any sense. So that was definitely telling.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, Pugs and Porsches. I want to find a fun daily driver with three pedals that my wife can learn to drive stick on. Any suggestions on the best way to teach her? Start with my videos. I have three how to drive stick videos. They are helping, helpful. But then do it like they've been doing it since back in the day. Find a big parking lot and do it. I mean, do by doing and not. And the real way to do by doing is once you get through that first lesson, that's like a half hour or so. Make sure that she keeps driving that, you know?

[Zach Klapman]

Yes.

[Matt Farah]

You gotta like, get out of that. Get out of your head and do that first lesson and then, then like make her drive that car every day, all the time for like two weeks. And then you'll be good.

[Zach Klapman]

Yep.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, man. John Spartan442. Good username. I'm driving my dune buggy from Orange county to Palm Springs one morning this November. What kind of silly balaclava would you recommend to entertain the masses and keep my noggin from freezing in the chilly morning? Oh, that's a good one. I can't believe I'm saying. Saying this, but actually a full face helmet will really do the job.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

So maybe you get one of those helmet covers that look makes you look like a dinosaur or something.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. Like Pikachu or one of those funny things. Yeah, yeah. Stunt riders like to wear those things.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

But helmet will make. It'll. It'll knock down the wind noise.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

Which is great. And it protects you from anything.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

It's a good idea.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, I. That's. I know it doesn't seem cool to wear a helmet in a dune buggy, but it actually will serve the function that you need. Okay, hang on. Let's see. Watch. Question. Okay. Too soon, junior. This one's also for Zach. I own an E36 M3 and an S2000. What other cars that Matt hates are actually good?

[Zach Klapman]

And should I buy anything from the 60s? Sure, yeah. There's plenty of good fun stuff. Anything that's really old that muscle cars Matt thinks are so stupid.

[Matt Farah]

Ye old junk. SUVs. SUVs from the 80s.

[Zach Klapman]

Oh. Back when they were all noise, no power. Yeah, I mean, that's true. How do you feel about like big blazers, you know, like C10 stuff.

[Matt Farah]

The only Blazer I like. I'm not into the big like K5 Blazers. The blazer that I like is actually the two door Tahoe, which was basically. Yeah. The end of that. They think they called that a Blazer for a minute, but then it became. Became Tahoe GT or something like that. It was the two door. I like the two door Tahoe. What else do you. I don't hate the S2000. I don't hate the 46 M3. I can't fit in an S2000 properly. But I respect it. And the E36 M3 is universally agreed that it's built like shit, but they're fun to drive.

[Zach Klapman]

It is the worst generation of M3 for sure.

[Matt Farah]

Are there any car other cars that I hate but are actually good?

[Zach Klapman]

Well, what's. What do you usually hate? You hate things you can't fit in. But that's an ergonomic right thing. That's not like.

[Matt Farah]

You mean I don't hate. I don't hate 996s or first gen boxsters. I don't love them.

[Zach Klapman]

They're just unattractive. Outside and inside.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

Drive great. They're fine. Hate F body Camaros. You don't really like those.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, I don't like F body Camaros.

[Zach Klapman]

Those are objectively. They're fast. You can mod them. You can make them handle well.

[Matt Farah]

Yes, they go fast and turn.

[Zach Klapman]

They go fast. And they sound good.

[Matt Farah]

And they sound good.

[Zach Klapman]

So you get F body Camaro.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, I don't. That's the good version of his cars that I hate. Cars that are really. That have really poor build quality. That's the.

[Zach Klapman]

You love Fox body Mustangs, man.

[Matt Farah]

That's the only one. And it's pure nostalgia.

[Zach Klapman]

You love deloreans.

[Matt Farah]

I don't anymore, now that I own one. I did.

[Zach Klapman]

I did.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. I don't. I don't like cars that have lots of plastic that are built like shit.

[Zach Klapman]

What is the interior of your countach made of? Just ask leather, friend.

[Matt Farah]

It's all leather.

[Zach Klapman]

What's underneath the leather?

[Matt Farah]

I don't know.

[Zach Klapman]

Plastic you can touch.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, I don't like plastic. Like buttons. Yeah, like, like, like the GM injection molded interiors and stuff.

[Zach Klapman]

Early 2000s Pontiac.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, unless it's the one with all the buttons on the steering wheel. That's a good time.

[Zach Klapman]

What about like the formula Firehawk WS6 Firebird? That's an F bodybuilder.

[Matt Farah]

Respect it. Yeah, respect it. I'd rather a 90. I'd rather the end of the previous generation Firebird than an F body Firebird. I'd rather like a 92 Firebird formula.

[Zach Klapman]

Really?

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

What engine is in that slow thing?

[Matt Farah]

350. But I. You'd change it. You'd put a LS7 or something.

[Zach Klapman]

Okay.

[Matt Farah]

I don't like them out of the box.

[Zach Klapman]

I still want one of those. Dump the WS6 that had like giant.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, like eight scoops on it. Like a dragon elephant trunk. I mean, have you seen the one we have at South Bay? We've got the. We've got the cleanest IROC and the cleanest 91 Firebird you've ever seen in your life. Both like fire truck red and both. I'm like, yep, would with those. I actually definitely would. Back in the day, I would have never touched a fucking iroc. You show me a nice IROC with like proper chassis upgrades and an LS motor and I'm in the game now. I like, I like an iroc.

[Zach Klapman]

All right. But I'm trying to compare stock for stock. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Definitely not. Big Ben says while cleaning out my cabinets, I found a 12 inch blue neon tube light from 20 years ago. I had them shits under my Subaru. I'm seriously considering installing it in the footwell of my F80. See another one. I thought he was going to put that in his Ferrari supercar. Are you garbage? Yes. Well, that Neon is no good.

[Zach Klapman]

But yeah, also if you just want blue lights in your interior, just get LEDs. Yeah, they're everywhere. They're cheaper, they're easier to install.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, we don't, we don't need Neon anymore.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, you don't. Okay, let's the last three.

[Matt Farah]

Okay. Bad gardener. What cars have huge premiums in later or early years of production runs? Well, this needs to be divided out like certain ways, right? Like there's often a variant where like the E46 where like a CSL was only for the last two years and those, those have big premiums but like it's rare that like just the same car that they made for 10 years will have a huge premium on one versus the other.

[Zach Klapman]

992.2 GT3.

[Matt Farah]

Well, I mean, no, I mean like here's like Acura NSXs, NA1s and NA2s. The values seem to be based on the production numbers which were the highest between 91 and 94 and then slowly trickled off. Same thing for the Nissan GTR, Arthur. Inexplicably, an R35 from 2021 is still worth a ton of money. Why? Because they sold like 100 cars. So there's just, it's just a numbers game. Whereas you have countaches, the early cars tend to be worth more sometimes because they're of the lower production numbers. Other times because people like the quote, pure earlier design without the flares and the wings. So there's like, there's times when the car evolved from a more quote, pure design to the later design and people like the pure earlier design. 356s, early 911s, Panteras, Countaches, 308s and 328s are good examples of that. And then there's other times where production went down towards the end and so low volume drove high prices like the GTR or the N SX.

[Zach Klapman]

It's like BMW 2002 is the eras where the rear lights were round or worth more money and then they went square and it was like, oh, no, thank you. Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Farah]

So there could be other, there could be ones like that too. Other ones like where stuff that crossed over where the impact bumpers came in, like Lamborghini Espada Series threes, the last ones are rarer because they had impact bumpers and people didn't want impact bumpers.

[Zach Klapman]

Now wait, but are those worth more money? Because.

[Matt Farah]

No, that's the ir. The irony is they're rarer but not more desirable.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, they're worse.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Right, so. But you might be able to, if you were restoring one, you know, remove the impact bumpers and blah blah, blah. Like my Countach had a weird ass US spec bumper on the back that was removed at some point, which I get. All right, last one. Christian says my mom wants a plug in hybrid crossover. She likes the X3, but it's not a hybrid hybrid. She wants it light. Well, I don't know about lightly used. I mean, my mom has a Q5 hybrid. It sounds exactly like what your mom is looking for. Yeah, has an A4, loves Audi. You want a Q5 hybrid.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, do that. Get that perfect.

[Matt Farah]

I mean that's. My mom literally has a Q5 hybrid and loves it.

[Zach Klapman]

And Lexus also makes a. There's a Lexus version of the RAV4 hybrid which I think is the NX.

[Matt Farah]

The NX.

[Zach Klapman]

And it will also serve this person's mom perfectly. So she should just test drive both of those.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, that's what. That's definitely what you want. All right, that's our show today. We'll figure out what happened with Simon and circle back with him later. Thank you to our patrons for such good questions today. We appreciate it. Do check out from your local library or buy it if you're interested in the topic. Autonomy by Peter Nelson. Even though it is four years old almost, it definitely, definitely. There's absolutely nothing in it that does not apply to what's happening today. And it's good to remember. I really like. I like studying our history where I can because I feel like so much of the fucking flim flam bullshit that served us today is so dependent on people not remembering that this stuff has been served up exactly the same over and over, over throughout the history of true our country and humanity and whatever. And so it's interesting to go back and read that shit. And I'll have a book report on his next book soon. Actually, his next book came first, but Fighting Traffic, which I hear is really good. Thanks guys. See you later.