Flock vs the Range Rovers; Ferrari 849 Testarossa Spider Review

Summary

The Smoking Tire Podcast

Episode: Flock vs the Range Rovers; Ferrari 849 Testarossa Spider Review
Date: July 17, 2026
Hosts: Matt Farah, Zack Klapman

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Matt and Zack dive into a trio of automotive topics: the mishaps of law enforcement and AI-driven license plate surveillance with Flock cameras, a detailed first drive (and critical design analysis) of the new Ferrari 849 Testarossa Spider, and updates on Matt’s ongoing projects, including his unique Manx with a radial engine. The conversation also spans EV depreciation, rare car quirks, and advice for car enthusiasts and buyers, blending sharp takes, humor, and deep industry knowledge—all in classic Smoking Tire fashion.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Flock AI License Plate Camera Fiasco

Timestamps: 03:34 – 22:07

Background:

• Story originates from an article by Joel Feder on The Drive regarding a scary police incident with a press Range Rover on manufacturer plates.
• Press cars get flagged as stolen due to a surveillance error: Flock AI’s camera system misreads non-traditional license plate formats, triggering widespread “stolen” plate alerts.
• The result: automotive journalist and his wife surrounded by officers, guns drawn, due to a false "stolen plate" report.
• Example of technology and policing overreach, and how input errors in high-surveillance environments have real-world consequences.

“So not only is this Flock AI system ripe for abuse by the exact kind of people who would abuse such a system, it’s also ripe for errors by the exact kind of fucking people that are lazy about inputting this shit right…” – Jeff Zurschmeide (12:21)

Major Insights:

• Manufacturer plates have unique formats; mistakes in data entry can flag dozens of cars.
• Flock AI’s system highlights the danger of uncritical reliance on automated surveillance — both for innocent drivers and civil liberties.
• Cities, including LA, are considering or walking back deployment due to errors, expense, and public pushback.
• Larger theme: automation without accountability leads to both abuse and broad collateral damage.

“There’s no critical thinking involved anywhere in the process. Like, it’s a complete turnover of the decision making to AI without any critical thinking. Even though the mistake was incredibly obvious the entire time.” – Jeff Zurschmeide (20:19)

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2. Ferrari 849 Testarossa Spider Review

Timestamps: 22:16 – 44:49

Driving Impressions:

• Matt drove the 849 Testarossa Spider in Tenerife—finally allowed to talk about it after embargo.
• Dynamic performance is “amazing” with beautifully integrated hybrid systems, fast as expected, lovely steering and brakes. But…
• Heavily critiques the car’s styling: feels like a mid-cycle refresh forced to look “different at all costs,” resulting in awkward, tacked-on, angular features atop the round greenhouse from the SF90.

“If you painted it black, it would look like you were driving a camouflaged prototype car.” – Jeff Zurschmeide (28:32)

Key Critiques:

• Despite the $700,000-$1,000,000 price tag, it’s not obviously head-and-shoulders above rivals from McLaren or Corvette in key driving respects.
• Hybrid tech is improved, but the start-up process (engine stays quiet at first, needs a separate button) misses the “theater” buyers expect.

“All of these choices were so poor... There should be a sour tone to this. This car is so expensive, this car is crazy money.” – Jeff Zurschmeide (32:25)

Interior, Usability, and Design:

• Interior is high quality, but not several steps above a loaded Corvette—shocking for price.
• Ferrari’s infotainment still lacks critical basic features: can’t see tach and GPS at the same time.
• Questioning the legacy: 849 Testarossa name feels more like marketing than substance, with no lineage to the classic Testarossa.

“I can no longer say the Ferrari’s cluster is fully digital. And, oh by the way, you can’t have GPS up and see the tach.” – Jeff Zurschmeide (38:44)

“It wipes away the mystique of Ferrari.” – Jeff Zurschmeide (47:00)

Styling and Market Context:

• General opinion: not attractive, feels cobbled-together.
• The numerical naming (849) is inconsistent and confusing, diminishing the emotional Ferrari brand heritage.

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3. Corvette & Supercar Value Discussion

Timestamps: 34:09 – 44:49

• Compares Ferrari 849 directly to new Corvettes (Grand Sport, ZR1), arguing that modern Corvettes offer similar structure, interior quality, and performance at a fraction of the price.
• Notes that the Corvette ZR1 is arguably “prettier” than the new Ferrari.
• Observations from car shows: young enthusiasts gravitate toward Corvettes with dramatic wings, not the latest Italian exotics.

“If you put them next to each other and you went, which one is the Italian styled Ferrari... I think it’s less pretty.” – Jeff Zurschmeide (41:30)

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4. Taycan & Project Updates

Timestamps: 51:08 – 58:41

• Matt’s Porsche Taycan develops an alarm system fault; traced to a known TSB, module being replaced.
• Amusing aside about living with modern electric cars and their sometimes mysterious ownership quirks.
• Manx radial engine project update: Latest shop round brings significant improvements—cooling, throttle response, reliability (“feels like it’s got 20 more horses”), and better overall drivability.

“The Manx came back last week and dude, this is there. They have really done some fine work.” – Jeff Zurschmeide (54:56)

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5. Audience Q&A Highlights

Timestamps: 58:48 – End

A wide-ranging and lively Q&A with Patreon supporters, covering:

EV Depreciation (1:00:15)

• Used Audi e-tron GTS drops to 50% of value in 2-3 years—not zero unless the car completely fails, but depreciation slows with age/reliability.

Quirky Off-Roaders (1:02:50)

• Jimny vs Pajero: Jimny wins on quirky, friendly looks.

Automotive Industry’s “North Star” (1:68:04)

• Mercedes no longer the clear leader; much new tech comes out of China, not Germany.

Car Recommendations & Buyer Tips

• Great alternatives to a Camaro SS daily: go for something lightweight and tossable, like an E30 cabrio.
• On getting a PPI as a seller: Nice to have, but buyers still need independent inspection.
• Common buying mistakes: Underestimating costs, financing pitfalls, not considering total ownership costs, getting trapped in underwater loans.

Enthusiast Culture & Community

• Most diverse car fanbase? Probably Jeep Wrangler: loved by everyone from hardcore off-roaders to urban creative types.

Supercar Technology & “Nannies” (1:94:34)

• Discuss when driver aids erase purity: On public roads, most smart systems are a net positive; it’s racetrack use and overconfidence that separate the pros from the posers.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Flock Cameras:
  “It’s a complete turnover of the decision making to AI without any critical thinking. Even though the mistake was incredibly obvious the entire time.” – Jeff Zurschmeide (20:19)

• On Ferrari’s Dashboard Choices:
  “Why do I not have a tachometer when I have GPS, there’s only one screen... In a choice of anything, you’ve done nothing.” – Jeff Zurschmeide (39:21)

• On Corvette vs Ferrari:
  “It’s the same. The Ferrari and the Corvette are built the same, right? ... I was going the same speed down the road.” – Jeff Zurschmeide (36:59)

• On Automotive Design's Decline:
  “It wipes away the mystique of Ferrari.” – Jeff Zurschmeide (47:00)

• On Choosing a Quirky Offroader:
  “I think the Jimny because it’s friendlier looking... It’s tiny and it... the Pajero is like trying to look a little bit like an off road rally thing.” – Zack (63:08)

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The Smoking Tire’s Signature Tone

Expect the hosts to be opinionated, irreverent, and honest throughout. Matt and Zack are quick to call out corporate—or policing—nonsense, poke fun at flawed design decisions (“square body on top of a round car”), and deliver practical advice for real-world buyers.

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Recommended Listening Timestamps

• Flock AI camera story: 03:34 – 22:07
• Ferrari 849 Testarossa Spider review: 22:16 – 44:49
• Corvette comparisons: ~34:09, recurring
• Taycan and Manx project updates: 51:08 – 58:41
• Audience Q&A rounds: 58:48 – End

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Summary prepared for those who want the inside line on the latest automotive controversies, supercar launches, and “real enthusiast” takes—in under an hour and a half, no ads.

Transcript

[Matt Farah]

What's up, everybody? Welcome to the Smoking Tire Podcast. Matt Farah here. And today's episode is brought to you by off the Record. We love off the Record here at the Smoking Tire. They are looking out for me as I drive all over the country. And they are looking out for you in your everyday life. Could be road trips, could be commuting, you name it. If you get pulled over and you get a moving violation, get off the record. Go to offtherecord.com TST that's offtherecord. That link will get you 10% off all legal services booked through off the Record. Friends don't let friends plead guilty. That system is meant to trap you. Fight it. Get off the [e-mail] TST all right,

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

folks, on this episode of the podcast, Zach and I review the Ferrari 849 Testarossa. We also talk about the scourge that is Flock AI and an update on the Manx. And my Tycon has a funny new problem. It's the Smoking Tire Podcast. Let's go. What the fuck is up? Welcome to Greenwich, Connecticut. Say it's a beautiful morning here in suburbia. Well, that's half true. It's a beautiful morning in suburbia. That is a little bit. If, if the folks watching the video can see in the background, it's not foggy. That's the smoke from the Ontario wildfires.

[Zach]

Yeah, it's really, really. It's great. It's been. It's like monotone from morning to evening.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

And like yesterday it was also so humid that I was like, holy. You could. It's so humid. You could see the air, you know, like Smoky mountains kind of thing. And then I went outside, I was like, oh, wait. And then you were like, dude, fires. And I was like, what are you talking about? Yeah. And then. Yeah. So it's bad. It's not great. It's not great. And now. And everyone I've seen is like, is this what it was like in California? And like, Yep, pretty much.

[Zach]

Yeah. People in the chat were.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

There's a chat happening on the Patreon page. We can't. We're not going to be able to address those. I'm glad that we exist, but it's too far. It's like on a. It's on a computer over there. So.

[Zach]

Whoa.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

That I just got big. But we're glad to have you with us, particularly at 8:15 in the morning, East Coast.

[Zach]

Yeah, I'm glad people submitted questions. I. I made the event a little earlier.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

I Mean, it's been a while since we've done a show. Like, so, like, the shows that people are hearing now were recorded like a week ago, so.

[Zach]

Very true.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

So there's things. There's certainly things to talk about. You've got. I mean, we could. I. This happened like, the Flock camera story is just crazy.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

We could start there. I. I can now talk about the Ferrari 849 Testarossa, which I drove in Tenerife and. And couldn't talk about. I can. Can I talk about the Grand Sport Corvette? I don't think. I don't know if that's embargoed. Maybe I shouldn't. We'll say. Let me table that and see if that's actually embargoed. And we've. I've gotten the Manx back, and we. We could talk about that.

[Zach]

You drove the Mansory Mercedes.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

My box.

[Zach]

Yeah, as soon as it came out of my mouth. Like, different. M. Different.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

The Maybach Mercedes, which I just posted a review of on Instagram, actually. So where to start?

[Zach]

Let's start with Flock, because it's short.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Okay.

[Zach]

And the other. The other ones will be longer.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

So for those of you who have not yet seen the story by Jerry Perez on the drive, why is that showing one bar? That's a brand new fucking battery. I don't like that. I have more brick.

[Zach]

Or if you have a USB C to C. I can just see to.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

I do. I do. It's upstairs. I do.

[Zach]

All right, I'll plug it in.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

All right, hang on. I apologize, mate. Do you want to plug that in while explaining the background of this story, or you want to just pause?

[Zach]

No, I need. I need the USB C to see.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

No, I know. All right, pause.

[Zach]

I think it was Joel. The drive. Yeah, I think also. Correction. The article is by Joel Fader.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Oh, it's Joel, not Jerry. Sorry. Excuse me. I knew it was a Jay who wrote for the drive. Is that all right? The battery indicator light's gone away. You don't need to go upstairs when you have an old Jewish mother and a drawer full of cable.

[Zach]

Yeah. Convenience is everywhere. They plan ahead.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Okay, so if you haven't heard the story, read the story on the drive. Guy called Joel Fader, who is a career automotive journalist, has been doing this for a long time. We know. I know him. Was driving a press Range Rover in Minnesota. Okay. And Range Rovers in all press cars, you see them in every photo of every press car, for the most part. Not all. Many have distributor plates on them or manufacturer plates.

[Zach]

On them.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

And they look like dealer plates, except instead of dlr, they say MFR or dst. You know, they, they, they, they're typically, it's not just 1, 2, 3, ABC. There's a, there's typically a smaller set of numbers on the plate somewhere.

[Matt Farah]

It's a.

[Zach]

Usually fewer numbers, like six characters, not seven. And there's the thing in the middle, like you see on almost a government plate or something like that.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

It's a non traditional license plate format. Okay. That's all, that's all you need to know about these. And all these cards have these plates on them. And if you've ever seen a dealer plate for a car dealer. My, my dealer plate that I have looks like this and it's like a B and then A vertically stacked, like 5C and then, and then next to it, you know, 6E. Right. So it's like 2, 2 up down, 2, 2. Right.

[Matt Farah]

So.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

And the formats can be different. Why does this matter? Because Joel says Costco, his wife, I believe it's his wife, his partner, whatever, backs the Range Rover out of the spot and is surrounded by cop cars, guns drawn. They pull this poor bastard out of a car at gunpoint and, and they tell him that his license plate, not the car, his license plate is stolen.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Okay. Now obviously,

[Zach]

well, he then has to, you know, nervously but confidently explained to the officers what a press car is.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Right.

[Zach]

Which does take a bit of time because it's a Sunday.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Also right now, Zach and I have been pulled over for moving violations in press cars before and we have had to have this conversation. I've had to have the conversation going back many years with Tom Morningstar on Bull Run, having been stopped deep into the triple digits in a marked up Shelby, having to explain what a press car is and that this car isn't stolen. Having to explain to that guy at the beginning of COVID I got dragged out of a991, the 992 Turbo S.

[Zach]

Oh, right, right, right.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

I got dragged out of there. He was sure the car was stolen from a dealer because it had manufacturer plates on it and he thought they were dealer plates. Okay, so even cops don't know what M plates are sometimes. Like you'd think the kind of thing that they teach cops that are on patrol. And, and in a world where reading license plates is so important and understanding license plates, you'd think they'd teach them what these plates, I mean, I bet

[Zach]

they do, but it's probably five minutes of a, you know, six week course or something. Like that, they forget it.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah, I'm getting sidetracked because why did Joel and his wife get dragged out of the car and held a guy gunpoint and handcuffed the cop, ultimately, once they. He explains to him what a press car is, the cop ultimately realized what's happened, which is that they subscribe to a service called Flock AI. You can already tell that this is going to be bad. Flock AI is a general surveillance program. It's not a privately run speed camera program. It's not a law a. It's not a. An automated stop sign enforcement program or speeding program. It is a thing where they just put privately owned cameras, corporate but privately non government owned cameras all fucking over the place. They record everything. And then for however many, you know, thousands of dollars a month, the police department can just subscribe to this totally warrantless surveillance of everybody and can type in a license plate and just get that car's movements around the city.

[Zach]

Yeah, there are a lot of stories before this happened about like officers using Flock cameras to track their ex girlfriend's whereabouts and stuff. So like, you know, they can. It's intended as just general surveillance. And then if there's a problem, they could log in and look. Look for like the backtrack of the murderer. But it also has this automated system that will flag license plates that it has deemed are problematic in some way.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Well, so, so here's, here's how this happened. It goes back to the non traditional layout of the license plate when. And I had to learn this because I had to enter my dealer plates into California's toll tag system fast track, so I could drive to San Diego and back in the. In the 73 and whatever. And it took me like a dozen tries to enter the plate correctly. It was just saying not recognized. And I figured out that you have to. If it's horizontal, horizontal, vertical, vertical, horizontal, horizontal, you treat them like that. You enter it horizontal 1, horizontal 2, vertical 1, vertical 2, horizontal 3, horizontal 4. It just becomes extra digits, right?

[Zach]

It's like all in one line.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

There's a all in one line. You don't skip over the little numbers. You don't make a space. You don't type D, L, R. It's the numbers. But you type them all. Okay, well, all of these plates for, let's call it Land Rover will have the same big numbers, only the little numbers will change. So if one plate in this fucking stack of 30 plates gets misplaced or stolen, they have to report it to the cops. Part of having these plates is if you misplace one. You must file a police report.

[Zach]

Report.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

They file a police report. The person who enters the license plate number into this Flock system doesn't know how to do it and does it wrong. And Flock flags all Range Rover plates, so they basically.

[Zach]

They skipped the middle numbers.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah.

[Zach]

So now if. And if all of JLR's plates are AB34 with little things in the middle. Yeah. You know, if they have 50 plates in the United States and this is like dealer loaners and it's press cars and everything. Flock then put out alerts for every plate that was, you know, AB34. Whatever I said. And what was really scary and concern,

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

I mean, so many plates.

[Zach]

So that's why they. They went after this guy, because it popped up as being in their city. And it said, hey, this stolen plate is in your city. And then it also had sent alerts. The police officer informed Joel to like six other precincts.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah.

[Zach]

I don't know if it's all Minneapolis or if it was just around the country. I don't remember. But it's like, you know, every Range Rover or every plate that fit these, These four characters have been flagged in the country by this AI system.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah, it's probably like every Land Rover marketing or press vehicle in the country. Yeah, pretty probably. Or at least a good percentage of them that are using what appear to be identical plates. If you're a fucking moron. Okay.

[Matt Farah]

And.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

And so not only is this Flock AI system ripe for abuse by the exact kind of people who would abuse such a system, it's also ripe for errors by the exact kind of fucking people that are lazy about inputting this shit right or getting the details right.

[Matt Farah]

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[Jeff Zurschmeide]

That's just sort of how it goes.

[Matt Farah]

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[Jeff Zurschmeide]

The idea being the number of instances gets smaller and smaller and smaller and

[Matt Farah]

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[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Tired? I was, I was very nervous because I was reading stories that the city of LA was going to adopt Flock leading up to the Olympics. And if you really want a fucking story, go listen to the dollop about the 1980 LA Olympics, which many will be like, it was the first ever profitable Olympics, which is true. It's also the Olympics that basically invented modern policing. Choppers, SWAT teams, the. The militarization of policing went into super overdrive specifically for the Olympics under the sort of threat of the, you know, of, of what could happen at the olympics. This is 1979, terrorism, Iran, Iran hostage crisis, shit like that. There's hijackings and airplanes, you know. Yeah, they're. The fear of what would happen drove a serious militarization of the lapd. That did obviously, like the Patriot act and everything else didn't turn off once the event went over. And so now they were talking about bringing in Flock for the fucking Olympics. And I'm like, oh, my fucking God. You know.

[Zach]

Well, and they've also, I mean, they've installed Flock at a bunch of other municipalities and the pushback from the public was, I don't know, it was a small but like energetic murmur. Like six months ago, a couple journalists were covering it. And now people are like knocking cameras down and throwing them in, you know, garbage and you know, in lakes and stuff like that. I mean, yeah, you know, there's a lot of pushback about it, but la, I think, dissolved their relationship with Flock because they realized that like the air, it was too air prone and expensive.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah, like four, like, you know, four days after Flock, five days after the story on the drive came out. I, I don't know if it was. If it was causation direct or correlation or causation, but like, couldn't have helped. What's.

[Zach]

What happened with red light cameras? You know, like the red light camera.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Remember Red Flex?

[Zach]

Yeah. In la they were bad because they were issuing too many false tickets and it was costing the city more money to subscribe to and maintain the system than they were getting in revenue. It was like the worst business decision decision.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

It was like it was a bad decision morally to have a profit motive in getting these tickets as opposed to a safety motive.

[Zach]

Right.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

But that's not ultimate. That's not ultimately what stopped them.

[Zach]

Of course not.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

What stopped them was like, oh, actually it's also bad for capitalism.

[Zach]

Yeah. The business case doesn't work. Yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

So, you know, la, at least as of a few days ago, there was a story that they dissolved their relationship with Flock. And, and like, thank God, like, if you hear about this coming to your city, you need to fight this. It's like this is some seriously dystopian.

[Zach]

It's a really surprising. Like, it seems like such an elementary error, you know, because there's plenty of plates out there that have the little numbers in between or like different shapes or, you know, logos in the middle. Like other states allow that stuff, historic vehicles. And for this, you know, allegedly, like high def video system to miss this essential detail that is a part of like any license plate manufacturing and registration. I can't believe that they didn't think about this.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah. And even if you. The cops on the ground, like when all of this rolls down to the cops on the ground, like none of them like saw the plate on the car and were like, hang on, it's got little numbers on it. And the one on Flock doesn't have the little numbers. Like, no, but there's like no critical thinking involved anywhere in the process either. Like, it's a complete turnover of the decision making to AI without any critical thinking. Even though the mistake was incredibly obvious the entire time.

[Zach]

Yeah, like that's. Or, or, you know, I mean, if they're in the pitch meeting with Flock and they're like, no, no, this is error proof. And so whatever the system says and they just go, okay. Like we've been told that it, you know, if it's. It says Range Rover in the registration and it has these numbers, like, then it has figured it out and they learned in real time, luckily without anyone getting hurt, that it does not know the difference.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Well, then there's that the body cam video that they got where he said the cop says to him, you know, you're lucky you were in this town, in Minneapolis. They just shot you.

[Zach]

I think he, I think he said they would have, they would have approached guns drawn in that county. And they didn't hear but like it was still four police cars all swarming. And maybe stolen plates are a much bigger, you know, maybe, maybe they have learned over time that someone who steals a plate and drives around is more dangerous. It seems like a large response.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah. Or these cops have just have nothing to do in this small town and this is the only, the only non white collar crime.

[Zach]

But like, you know, misidentification is obviously a very big problem. Problem with, in, in our legal system and policing system. And so now you're handing that over, you know, to AI. What could go wrong?

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Nothing, obviously, unless you happen to be driving a car in America. Okay. So speaking of not driving cars in America.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

The Ferrari 849 Spider. Testarosa. Testarossa Spider. The editors at Road and Track. My review is up on the site now. You happen to read it? It's complimentary to the driving dynamics, not so much the styling. So you drove the SF90 actually five years ago as well. And neither of us loved felt heavy, it felt clunky. And for a car that made it almost A thousand horsepower is 9980 or something. It 969 more than 9 and less than a thousand. A lot wasn't particularly exciting by the standard of having that much power. It was still a, you know, cool.

[Zach]

It was exhilarating. But it was not as exciting or kind of I think what we wanted from a supercar. And then it was made obsolete by the 296.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Correct. Which looked all, you know, if you really didn't have a keen eye, you'd find think those were the same cars. For people that don't really know cars, they're effectively the same car. And acceleration tests, even without the all wheel drive and even without even down two cylinders, the 296 is really just as fast as the SF90. I mean you're talking about a tenth or two here and there. And for hundreds of thousands of dollars in the real world, that's not a difference.

[Zach]

And from seat of your pants or your passenger's pants, a few tents is probably not noticeable. Like both will feel extremely fast.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

And the steering was better in the 296. So it didn't have the, you know, the weight on the front and all that kind of stuff. So my theory is that this upset the, the depreciation of the SF90 and. And the fact that people didn't really want it and their own car made it upset Elite. Drove them into sort of a panic where they said it. You have to make it look different. I don't care. You need mid cycle refresh. This isn't going to be a little refresh. You ha. It has to look way different from the 296. I don't care what it looks like as long as it doesn't look like that. Somewhere there was a meeting.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Where some angry man goes.

[Matt Farah]

I don't care.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

I don't care what it looks like as long as it don't look like. I don't do 296.

[Zach]

Right. It has to be distinct.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Change it different. And it must have 1000 horsepower.

[Zach]

That's.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

That's it. It's gotta have over a thousand to justify the, the hypercar ness now. And I don't give a shit what it looks like as long as it doesn't look anything like the one that's cheaper. Go. And this is what you end up with. But also, but also do it on a budget because they clearly have. And one engineer on the sly was like we only had the budgets. Like seriously, the guy sent me that. So. So if you look at a photo of this car, the greenhouse of the car, the glass, the roof structure, the, the top structure, the engine cover are pretty much the same as the SF90. Particularly the, the greenhouse and the interior. They're. They are the same. And this, they, they said this to me that it's the same but then all the other body panels are changed. Right. And so it looks like. Remember like 10 years ago when the Ferrari like special projects division was like doing that shit for Eric Clapton and these people and they would turn a 430 into a 512 boxer or whatever the fuck and. But they had the 430s greenhouse still. And so you know you kind of saw what they were going for. But it looked like sort of wonky. That's this, this is that exact thing. They, they've got the lower body elements from the old 512M race car which is like a group C car.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

It was like somewhere between a Porsche 917 and 962. Ferrari's take on, on that shape of a car. Wedgie. You know a curvy top but sort of slab sided.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

And these sort of these double flip tails. That's where they get the double flip tail from on this car. And A real square. But it looks like they've put a square body on top of a round car. Guys, one more quick break for Avance. You know about Avance.

[Matt Farah]

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[Jeff Zurschmeide]

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[Matt Farah]

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[Zach]

Very much.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

So, like, if you painted it black, it would look like a. If you, if you drove around in a matte black 849, it would look like you were driving a camoed up prototype car.

[Zach]

Well, yeah, I mean, this is something that I didn't like. I think when they released the first press photos of the white one, like, and I know that I'm not a car designer and so whatever. Caveat. But like, it looked like they had the round body language of the 296 and the SF90, which I really like. But then when like the intakes on the side are very angular.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

They're square.

[Zach]

Polygonal. Polygonal, sure. Like they're. Yeah, they're squared off polygons. And I just. For me, it's like this weird collision of two different ideas and it makes, it makes those new parts look even more tacked on.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Right.

[Zach]

Because it looks like such a difference.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

In the case of the, the, the square bits on the nose, they almost are tacked on because the sh. Shape of the SF90 face is still there, just with these protruding corner bits coming out of it. It's really, really strange. And. Yeah. And even in the best colors, even in the most complimentary angles, even in person, in three dimensions, this is a strange looking car.

[Zach]

The canard things on the front, it's kind of like the, the Roma, which I think is a beautiful car, except for having that little, like, you know, protruding singular duck lip.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And this has it now like in four places, you know, on these corners.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Right.

[Zach]

And actually six if you count the back.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Okay. So, you know, if you, you look at it and look if people. There's going to be some people that like how it looks like, okay, fine, like, I don't. Let me tell you how to think, but I think it looks weird driving it. Different story. It's a big, wide, you know, supercar. It's, it's heavy. It's going to be like 3, 800. It might, it could even possibly be £4,000. Like the, the weight, they were very coy about it, you know, obviously, and they're talking about dry weight and like, we don't really know what it weighs. It could be £4,000. It's, it's, it's so goddamn fast, obviously. And, and you, you know, the V8

[Matt Farah]

sounds good, but not as good as

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

it used to sound. It's got the particulate filters in it. And so now I had a very funny conversation with the Ferrari engineers, which I'm sure probably shouldn't have been. It's not. I don't know, maybe they shouldn't have had it. But we were talking, they were like, yeah, we fully expect everyone to put an exhaust on it. And I was like, well, what brands do you like? And they were like, oh, this one sounds like. I mean, I've never had as, as in depth, a conversation with, with a supercar engineer about which exhaust you should plan to put on your car at.

[Zach]

I mean, they're like, we test this one or we like this one.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah, they basically, they ultimately said the. They have a partnership with Akrapovic and so you know, okay. But so, you know, it sounds nice, but it's not that loud. It rides beautifully. Although for all the money they're charging for this thing, on. On some bumps, you can still tell it's not a carbon tub. There's a little bit of a jiggle. Wow. And it's like $700,000, and it's 20, 26. 2026.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

And, like, they have not got you. You just can't. It's still a metal structure. Like, here's the thing. This car is. This is amazing. Is an amazing car. It. You know, the electric. The hybrid system is much better integrated than before. If you put it into sport.

[Matt Farah]

Or.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

They call it performance mode, which is where the motor just.

[Zach]

The.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

The gas engine just stays on, which is where you. Where you want to drive. You don't want to drive this thing enough. They've got a real start button now, but when you press it, it turns the car into us on with a silent EV mode. You then have to press a haptic button to actually fire the engine.

[Zach]

That's pretty funny. Like, and that's missing the theater.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

That is the most backhanded gift. Like, you should do the opposite button to start the hybrid. What are you doing? Yeah, what are you doing, guys? Like, so, like, when I turned in my article, they toned it way fucking down. And Dan was like, there's a sour tone to it that I don't think is necessary. And I was like, but. But all of this stuff, all on an individual level, all of these choices were so poor. Like, and. And, like, I just don't. There. There should be a sour tone to this. This car is so expensive. This car is crazy money.

[Zach]

And it's missed some of these things that, like, you know, a lot of us and the public, I think, has complained about.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah.

[Zach]

You know, and some of it, like, particulate filter. It's a European rule. Fine. They have to do that. But, like, do they have to do this startup or. Why can't. You know, can't you just power the car on? Hit the haptic for the mode you want and then push the. Because that's the feeder button, the theater sighting button. You know, that is like, let's turn on the. The, like, F16s, Top Gear or Top Gun, all that stuff. It's like, flick, flick, flick on, on. And then you get to. And, like, that's the part that's. You know, it's the crescendo.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

I. This is the Manx. It's the plunger in the Manx that It makes, you know. So does it drive great? Yeah, it drives great. Does it go faster than you could possibly go? Yes, it does. It has beautiful steering. It has the blend of the brakes between the hybrid and the caliper is really nice. You can't really tell even though it's brake by wire.

[Zach]

That's good. Does it do anything positively different than other hypercars or hybrids or not that you've driven?

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Does it real like does it really, really stand out above a Revuelto 750

[Zach]

or Revuelto or Artura or it.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

So I mean that's, that's a tough question and like. No, not really. No. It's at. It's on that level. I mean I, I think a, A Val. A Valhalla is much more extreme.

[Zach]

Sure.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

A Artura is more chill. A, you know, a ZR1X for a third of the price. Pretty close. Although the Ferrari with the two motors at the front end is how you get that magical steering. Whereas I would not personally want an X, I'd want a regular ZR1. After having just done 800 miles in a grand sport and I did a couple months ago a lot of miles in the E Ray, you want a rear wheel drive Corvette. The steering is not helped with that front axle system. That's for, it's. That front axle system is for drag racing and snow.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

It's not for handling. So it marginal returns there for worse steering feel.

[Zach]

I think it's probably, you know, to take Ferrari aside for a minute or actually all the companies, I think it's probably getting harder and harder to make your cars distinctive because especially like let's say $700,000 crazy money obviously. But you can't step on your million dollar products toes too much, you know. So if Aston made a mid engine car tomorrow they would go, well it can't be more exciting or faster than Valhalla. It has to be 700 grand worth of car. And like in the you know, particulate rules and these different like emissions rules and so it's just like the box kind of tightens kind of like F1 where there's just fewer and fewer ways it's solve this problem. And so what we have to look forward to or look for to separate the car is like styling, you know, the cockpit design buttons, like all the things you interact with. So I think it's probably you know to push back on. On pun. Like we probably have to focus on those things more because it's kind of like the straws we have left.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah, I mean you know, if the end. If it was gorgeous and the engine sounded incredible, I wouldn't dare say, you know, there's a Corvette. You know, there's a Corvette that. Because I just drove the Grand Sport, and I'm not sure if I should review it, but let me just say that I drove the Grand Sport three days after. Four, Four days after driving the Ferrari mountain roads. And I went, oh, boy. Because this, the Corvette is so user friendly. Structurally the same.

[Matt Farah]

The same.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

It's the same. You know, it's not like we're talking about a carbon tub car versus a Corvette. The Ferrari and the Corvette are built the same, right. And you know, The Corvette had 535 horsepower, the Ferrari, but I was going the same speed down the road because in and 20, 26, it's the level of your morality, your talent and who else is on the road that's going to determine that, not whether you have 1000 horsepower or 500. You cannot go faster down the road most of the time in one of these cars than the other.

[Zach]

But hasn't that been the case for a lot like, you know, C7Z06, probably Grand Sport, or if we go back a little further, like, versus the 612 or something, you know, outright speed, probably basically the same Corvette interior layout may have been more usable and probably more reliable in some ways, but I think, you know, was the art and the. In the design of the interior of the Ferrari. It's more about what it's saying, like, was what you were looking at some styling we preferred, you know, and now it's not. With all the haptic stuff, with all

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

the haptics with the styling, The Ferrari materials were. The materials in the interior were very good. They were beautiful. The carbon was nice. The leather was nice. Was it several levels above. I mean, I was in a very loaded up Corvette. It had the nicest interior you could get. These were pretty close. Wow. The leather was nice. The stitching was straight. The metal was. The aluminum was real metal. There's touchscreens. Like, you know, I can no longer say the Ferrari's cluster is fully digital. And oh, by the way, you can't have GPS up and see Attack.

[Zach]

Yeah, this is. This is so.

[Matt Farah]

This is crazy. This is.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

And I, I said this to them. I said this to them to their face. I go, guys, why do I not have a tachometer with. When I have gps, there's only one screen. It's right in front of you and you have to flip and I. And. And. And he goes. He Goes, well, the carplay, it must be like this. And I go, okay, well, your screen is shaped like this and you have this room on the side. I go, how about on the left where it shows the speed? Why not just a small one of those small, you know, like the 1980s hockey stick tack.

[Zach]

Yeah. Or what Mustang uses now.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

I mean, I said. I said, come on. I said, why? I'm on this beautiful island. I don't know where I'm going. So I want to have my GPS up, but I want to shift the car manually. I go, you, you. It's a screen. You have infinite choices in. In a choice of anything. You've done nothing. And I. And I said, this is the same from 296. There was nothing. And I. I go, why don't you do the talk? And he goes, oh, well, over there. It's like, dude, nobody has said to put a tack in the blank part of the screen. Like, this is crazy.

[Zach]

You need to hire somebody. Someone who's.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

It's. That's like some of these decisions. I go, you're Ferrari. Nobody thought of this. No one thought with these paddle shifters that I'd like to know what my RPMs are. That's insanity. Imagine the meeting.

[Zach]

They must just be like, they must be taking 99 cents of every dollar and just giving it to Formula One and hoping that Lewis and, you know, Charles can, like, do something, because stuff like that, you know, all these, like, Corvettes getting so close, spending, maybe not spending less money, but like, they charge a lot less money for them. The profit on The Ferraris is 80% of the car's cost. Or like, the resources are going elsewhere because that seems like such a simple thing.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

You can get a Ferrari, a Corvette with a naturally aspirated flat plane crank V8. Right now, Ferrari owned that. They threw it away and GMs like, okay, we'll do that. You can get a Corvette that is essentially. Not a 480. Like a 480 Pista, like a turbocharged non hybrid monster for $200,000. If the Ferrari were a stunner and I went, Corvette, GM, why is the, you know, the Corvette is. The C7 Corvette isn't as pretty as a Ferrari F12 because curves are really expensive. You know what I mean? But, like, I can't say definitively that an 849 is prettier than a Corvette ZR1. In fact, I think it's less pretty.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

It's my opinion, but, like, if you put them next to each Other and you went, which one is the Italian styled Ferrari, you know, and which one is the.

[Zach]

If you took the bad. I mean that would be. It be a tough experiment to conduct, but it would be a good experiment. I, I do wonder what the general public thinks and this. And actually I would also say like the 12 year old public because who are we just talking to?

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Well, I just judged, I just judged a car show, Sergio's car show, for charity and it was for. Jesus. I'm going to get the. It was an autism charity and I'm very sorry, I can't remember which one. I'd love to plug them, but it was riff raff.

[Zach]

Autism, whatever.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah, it was, it was, it was for, for an autism charity. So I was a judge judging like the supercar class. Johnny judged the 90s car class and Tommy Kendall judged another class. Well, we were assigned, you know, helpers. I actually don't know if they were autistic helpers or just the kids of people who were there. They seemed pretty normal to me. Anyway. What did the kids like? The ZR one? The kids didn't really care that much about the Italian stuff they were into. The ZR1 had big wings and so.

[Zach]

Right.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

So that new stuff.

[Zach]

Oh, I know we were talking to Johnny Smith because we're doing a podcast which we probably plugged at the beginning of this show with Richard Porter and Johnny Smith, August 18th at the Irvine Improv. But his kids are like 12. And he said, oh, we went to this car show and they're mostly interested in the new hypercars, which he was like, you know, like we are kind of bored of. So I wonder if young people just see the badge and go Ferrari and then whatever's around it, like, does it program their brain to like that or do they look at it, you know? You know, I don't know. I'm curious what young people think, how it compares to styling, like McLaren or War Corvette or Lamborghini or whatever.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

I, when I was young, I'm not sure I ever thought about any supercar as well, that's ugly, right?

[Zach]

Exactly. You're just excited about it.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

The fact that it was a supercar was enough for me. I don't think I had the judgment to go, you know, that's not very good looking. It comes later. And when I was driving the Ferrari around Tenerife, little kids were excited by it. I mean, other, you know, people, they don't see a lot of exotic cars there. So the presence of any Ferrari would excite them. I'm some of them cars are still there. Because I get d. People don't understand. I get I. That, that.

[Zach]

That.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

That's not me. I post. I was like the first person to post a picture of this thing on Tenerife. And like there were six identical silver cars. They've been there for like a month. But people like, I saw you driving yesterday. Like, no, dude.

[Zach]

Like, I left weeks.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

I'm glad I took a photo of all six of them next to each other. I just respond with that. Now I just go, dude, there's, there's. It's not me. So anyway, it's. It's a car that drives beautifully, but not head and shoulders above, you know, some of the other supercars I've driven. It's got great steering, it's got great brakes, it's incredibly capable, beautiful ride, not much trunk. And I don't love how it looks. And it's real expensive.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

And the name is strange. There's nothing about it. That's Testarossa. There's no Easter eggs to link it to any other Testarossa in history. Wow. There's no mechanical connection.

[Zach]

They should have hired the guy at Jeep or the person at Jeep who does all the Easter eggs.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

It just seems. It seemed like it was like the name, you know. You know, they just had it laying around. And the number scheme is. Is wrong too. Like, it's normally, you know, displacement followed by cylinder count. The 328 was a 3.2 liter 8.

[Zach]

The.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

The 5, 512 was a 5 liter 12. Right. Now this is a 4 liter V8 or it's 3.99. So they could have done 398 or 408, both of which fit the scheme and have not been used. Instead they did 8, 4, 9, which is they moved the cylinder count to the front. And the 49 refers to 499 cc's which is the displacement of each cylinder.

[Zach]

But who doesn't know that?

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Which is. But it's kind of dumb because like a 2 liter 4 cylinder, a 4 liter V8, like a lot. All the most common engines now are that displacement per cylinder. It's not like they've come up with some unique displacement per cylinder and are bragging about their unique cylinder size. It's the same size cylinder almost everybody else uses in their car.

[Zach]

They just. Do you think their target was, we need a big number. And then we will then figure out how to get there.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

We need a big number. We need a familiar name. Yeah, it's got a thousand horsepower. And I don't give a shit how it looks as long as it doesn't look like a 296.

[Zach]

And it can't have SF in the name.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Water bottle. I feel like it's in that. In front of that camera.

[Zach]

Oh, right. And it can't have SF in the name because they had that already. So it has to be start with an eight. Yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

So it's like, you know what's around.

[Zach]

It has to be bigger than 812.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

And what. Yeah. And what can we make up?

[Zach]

Right.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

It's just, it's. But they have 296 already. And 408 or 3 9. 398 is bigger than 296.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Like you.

[Zach]

I.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

It.

[Matt Farah]

There's so.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

It's confused. Confusing. All this is so confusing and makes me, like, really frustrated because, like, it wipes away the mystique of Ferrari.

[Zach]

Like, I feel like. I feel like sometime if they keep progressing on that, at some time in the near future we will have a Ferrari 1000. Mark my words.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Calling it 2026.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah. Even though four digits is weird, you need three digits is much better than four.

[Zach]

Why? Because it's aesthetically.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah, aesthetically. And when you say it, when you say it out loud, think about the number of syllables to say. 680, 500, 412. It's got a. It's got a cadence versus 1022, you know?

[Zach]

Well, yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

It's like falling down the stairs.

[Zach]

Yeah. What is the Escalade? There's the Escalade. There was a 600 Hennessy 1000 and then they have the 600. Right? Yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Well, you know, 1000 does sound good.

[Zach]

1K.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Following the word Hennessy, I get. For some reason that's got a flow.

[Zach]

Well, because that's telling you the horsepower.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Right.

[Zach]

But the Ferrari 1K, that actually wouldn't be bad.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

That's what they probably could have gotten away with that for. Like luche.

[Zach]

Hire me.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah.

[Zach]

I'll be there for five minutes and I'll sell you this idea. You'll sell them the TAC idea? Can't review them again.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

All right, so if you. If you want to read the somewhat sanitized but. But, but well crafted version of what I just said there. It's up on road and track.

[Zach]

It's lemonade. It's still a bit sour and tart, but they added some sugar.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Is that they tone? They toned down my abject horror at some of the decisions that were made. I. I had, I had conversations with people who defended some of these Decisions over there. And I just went wide eyed, said to their face, oh my God, you, you, you had the conversation and this is where you ended up like, wow, sorry. Like I did like,

[Matt Farah]

right.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

People seem to like the GT3 convertible. Everyone who, everyone who went on the, on the, on the launch. And I mean I, I'm not surprised that people like the GT3 convertible. I figured they would. But like people really seem into it.

[Zach]

It just seems like math. I mean if you like the GT3 and if you're a convertible person, they go, well, here's your, here's your turducken. And they go, okay. And I think maybe Chris said this, like, you know, people that are pushing back on it, like a GT3 should be a coupe. It's like, all right, then just don't get it. Like they have that, they offer that, you know.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah, I think it's, it's, I think it comes down to. What does the word GT3, you know, mean?

[Zach]

Sure.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

I mean I think it, I think it means in, historically it meant optimized for the track, I think. And now.

[Zach]

Well, it used to be race car. I mean it's a racing class.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Sure.

[Zach]

Right.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

But I mean historically within, within Porsche's nomenclature since 2006 or whatever form and now it just means like the fizzy, engaging one.

[Zach]

Really? Yeah, it's their, well, I was going to say it's not their rs. They have that too.

[Matt Farah]

Right.

[Zach]

It's, I was thinking RS like Audi, you know, that's, that's what it is for them. Yeah. It just tell, it tells you more successfully than Ferrari's naming scheme. It tells you exactly what the car will be about and probably what, what is underneath the hood or the hood. Sure.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

It means naturally aspirated. You know, now more than anything, you know, that's, that's, those are right now, Right now. These are the last of the naturally aspirated engines.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

I mean there will be a GT2 probably coming soon. That's turbo, but for now that's really what it means. But like I'm stoked to drive it. I, I, I didn't get, we just get, drop a rain, drop of rain on it maybe.

[Matt Farah]

No, look at that.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Uh, oh, it's not supposed to rain right now. Well, that would certainly be interesting, wouldn't it?

[Zach]

Just need a roof.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

We just need a roof or a tarp. We have a pergola. I don't know.

[Zach]

Is that what it's called?

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

This is a pergola.

[Zach]

All right.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah, I hope. Well, if we have to if we have to move, we'll. We'll stop down and move. But I'd rather not. I kind of like it out here.

[Zach]

Yeah, okay.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

But. Oh, okay. Moving on. The taycan has gone back to the shop.

[Zach]

I heard your side of that phone call, and I was very curious. What's going on? I truly never got the details. I just heard you be like, it needs to come in again. And I was like, what?

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

So it was at my house, and the alarm just started going off. And, you know, Hannah, like, unlocked it, and then, you know, it went. It stopped. She goes back inside, and like, two minutes later, she, like, it's going off again.

[Zach]

Did she unlock it and then re lock it or she just unlocked it?

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Well, but. But it automatically relocks after, like, you know, 60 seconds of idle time or something. Right? And then the alarm goes off again, and she gets in it and starts it and turns off the alarm stops and she drives it around, and I go, okay, you know, take it to the shop. Like, do, do, do, do. Do the soft reset thing where you do the double lock and you walk away. That doesn't solve it. Okay. I called our buddy at Porsche, and he says, you know, disable interior monitoring. So it uses the driver monitoring camera to. As a security camera. So turn that off. Well, that worked for, like, a little while, but, like, then it went off again. I said, okay, bring it down to west side. Put it in the basement. Turn off interior monitoring. Like, leave. Leave all the windows down and just like, you know, just fucking leave it there. And if the alarm goes off all night, the alarm goes off all night, you know, so we take. We take it to Porsche, tell them what's going on, and for two days they go, we can't replicate the issue. And I'm like, all the time. And I go, okay. So before we brought it in, we had disabled interior monitoring, which comes back on. You have to elect to turn it off every time you turn the car off.

[Zach]

You love a car that does that, especially, like, ad Normally I just leave it.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

I don't. I don't turn it off. When you turn the. When you shut the car down, a window pops up on the screen that says, would you like to disable interior monitoring? And I just. Don't touch it. Just go, you know, but we've been doing it. And so I said, make sure interior monitoring is on at the. Then leave it. And they called me like an hour. Like, it did it.

[Zach]

Oh, wow.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

And I'm. And I'm like, okay, great. And they said, apparently There was a TSB for this several years ago for some series of VIN numbers of which your car is one where the alarm module could go bad and we just replace it and I. They go, it'll be done tomorrow. We've got the part on order. So. So the alarm module itself did actually fail and they're replacing it. So there was actually something wrong.

[Zach]

Yeah, that's. I mean, that's good. I'm glad they were able to replicate it. I mean, that's good. Like detective work.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yes.

[Zach]

Similarly, my car's flashers go off when the car's been locked for like 12 minutes. So right now I just park in my garage with the car unlocked.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Wait, wait.

[Zach]

It's like, it's like a silent alarm. You know, it's like it, it seems like the alarm should be beeping, which it has an alarm, but it's just like the hazards are going. And for a while some of the forums of course were like, oh, it's your, your hood pop module is going bad. You can replace it or you can just un, un, unplug it. So I unplugged it and it did it, it didn't do it for like six months and now it's doing it again.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

The, the Internet said that I should, we should check the, I should check the contacts on my front that they can get, you know, gunked up and it's, it thinks the alarm goes off because it thinks the front's not closed. Just like that. You know, we tried a bunch of stuff but it turns out there was actually wasn't was a broken thing, but, you know, it's not broken. Is the Manx. The Manx came back last week and dude, this is there. They have really done some fine work.

[Zach]

Oh, you drove it right before you left.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah, I drove it a bunch. So, you know, it has, it's got the front mount now, now, which is a really, really clean install.

[Zach]

It is, it's very, very nice.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

And it's got the insulated, you know, cooling lines that go underneath the, the undercuts of the body.

[Zach]

512 BB.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Fuel.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah. Yeah. So you can't, you can't see them. And so it, there's a lot more coolant. You know, there's like almost twice as much coolant in the system now. There's also the front and the rear radiators are same, CSF radiators now. And they have this high performance fuel pump. Excuse me, water pump. And so, dude, I drove it all over high speed. It did not go over like 195, which was great. And the. They've retuned the throttle. Like, it probably feels like it's got 20 more horsepower. The throttle response is, Is better. The idle is smoother. The hot. You know, normally on a cold start, funny for a radial engine on a cold start, it fires on like half a crank. Like, you just engage the starter and it fires on a hot start, it's like. It's like four or five cranks now. It's all the same now. It's all one crank. So the hot whatever was causing the hot start to take longer, it's now, it's now not doing that anymore. It's. They. They've. They've. They set up the shocks a little bit. They. They turn some of the knobs on the shocks. It feels really nice. It's. It's proper. It's. It's running great. There's no smoke on startup.

[Zach]

It didn't get quicker. Or was that two services ago? Didn't they do something that you said? You said it came back and it's running like, stronger?

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

They did, yes. They did something. I don't know what on the second tune. And now it feels like it's. Although it could be because what they were saying with the decompression valves, they were getting gunked up. And when they get gunked up, they bleed compression. And so I may have been losing little bits of horsepower over time. These new valves are not supposed to get as gunked up. They made of a different material and blah, blah, blah. But it, it feels like it's got 20 more horsepower for sure. But it's sounds different too. The engine actually sounds. Sounds a little different. And. Is there a dog fight happening in the neighbor's yard? Didn't that sound like that?

[Zach]

Yeah, it's like as an EMT at a rave said in a video, is that good screaming or bad screaming?

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

It's. I'm sure there's like a group dog walker or something going around in the neighborhood, but it's.

[Zach]

Dude, it's.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

It's such a. A. It's really. They're, they're. They're. I mean, I'm. One could say that it wasn't quite done when I bought it, but I knew what I was getting wasn't a totally finished product. And I'm happy they have kept up with their, their word of getting, you know, getting me the improvements.

[Zach]

And, and you're part of the R D program.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah.

[Zach]

It's a good thing you live near them.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

They also. They put 300 miles on it while they had it. So I gave it to them with a thousand miles and it came back with 1300. And I was like, whoa. And they're like, we wanted to make sure it worked. So they're like, fair. Yeah.

[Zach]

I mean, if your complaint was it gets hot on at high. At freeway speeds over long periods of time, like, that's how you gotta test it.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

I'm not sure there's a car on the planet where the odometer matters less than this thing. Who cares?

[Zach]

Whatever. Like, if you know it's depreciating with every mile. Probably not.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

I. I have absolutely no care about what the odometer says. So I'm just happy.

[Zach]

Really.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Wait till you drive it. It's cool. They're really, really. It's nicely set up now. They've done a great job.

[Zach]

Cool.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

So I'm. I'm excited to. To really have a. Have a proper go in it. Should we go to the people? Is it that time?

[Zach]

Yes.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Okay. Let's go to the 51 minutes. If you want to ask questions for our podcast, even when we're in Greenwich, Connecticut, Connecticut. Patreon.com the Smoking Tire Podcast. It's where you ask questions and watch the show live, even if it's over my laptop. It's where you get the show early. It's where you get extra show. It's where you get the show without ads, and it's where you get access to all kinds of cool collabs and things that we are doing. Got a new tactile turn pen collab coming at you soon. I just got the prototype.

[Zach]

Sweet. I want to see you spoke about.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Very cool. Yeah, I'm into this one. And the prototype's waiting at the studio. And what else do we have coming up?

[Zach]

Well, we have the Grotto.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

The Grotto blazers, dude. I. I got this one was a slow burn on day one, but the orders have come in and I. I am really. My blazer went to the dry cleaners before I left because I wore it like four days in a row. That is mad comfortable. Mine is so soft.

[Zach]

Yours is really slightly stretchier than mine because it's. Because it's wool, not like a linen blend. Sorry about that. But yeah, I've got a lot of compliments from people I wasn't expecting to compliment fashion.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Like, which was, you know, friends of mine are like, that looks really awesome. Like what you. You dress, you know, worse than me most of the time. That's not a good.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Surprising really amid to my blazer.

[Zach]

Yeah, I really like it. My wife really likes it, and that makes me happy.

[Matt Farah]

Right. All right.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

What do you got, buddy?

[Zach]

Duffel Shuffle Retirement club says used audi e tron GTS are going for 50 of the original sticker at just 2 to 3 years old. Do you think that's their floor for the time being, or will they hit zero in two to four years? I mean, we never know what the floor is of any ev. And really, I think, I think the descent, the rate of descent probably depends more on reliability.

[Matt Farah]

Sure.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah. I mean, as if it has a. If it works, the floor isn't zero.

[Zach]

Right, Right. Running car.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

If it works, the floor on something like this is probably like 20 grand. You know, it's, it's still a whatever, 800 horsepower, 700 horsepower, high performance German car. So although the eventual floor could be zero if. If the entire car like bricks, if it works, the floor is not zero.

[Zach]

Yeah. If oceans don't have a floor. Sorry, if the floor of an ocean is not zero, then the floor of these is higher.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

So, like, the way I would think about it is if it depreciated that much the first year, it can't depreciate that much for you. If it lost half its value in

[Zach]

year one, it could still lose half its current value.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

If it lost half its value again, you've done much better than the first guy.

[Zach]

That is true.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Like if you don't think about it in terms of percentages and think about it in terms of raw dollars. Yeah, it depreciated 20,000 a year for him and maybe only 10,000 a year for you. So that's how I would think about that.

[Zach]

That's pretty funny. That's like the. There's like a lesson in grade school, like if I, if I want to walk to the. The wall and with each step I take, the. The step is half the distance of the previous one. Will I ever get there? No, you will never get there. So it's just like it's slowing down. You know, it went down 80 grand, then 40, then 20, then.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah, there's a ton of value in those cars. And, and I considered buying one instead of the Tycon. But the SEO for our. From a, for a content creator, the SEO was terrible. So on those, nobody, you know what will be interest?

[Zach]

Like if the reliability of the electric Audis or, you know, other companies that are known for having complicated cars, the reliability of their EVS is much better than the ICE versions like the evs. I wonder if they will depreciate at A slower rate overall over like 15 years than the gas ones, right?

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Like a 2012, you know, Mercedes CL600 or something like that. Amazing. But everyone just knows they're really complicated and they fall apart.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Interesting.

[Zach]

So I wonder if something that's got an electric powertrain, if the battery health holds up.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Alone, listless says, what's the better quirky car? A Mitsubishi Pajero or a Suzuki Jimney? I think the Jimney because it's friendlier looking. I think if I'm going quirky, to me, then it's like, weird. It's tiny. And it, you know, the Pajero is like trying to look a little bit like an off road rally thing.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Well, because it is, Right?

[Zach]

Yeah. It looks like it looks more aggressive. So I don't think, I wouldn't call it as quirky.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Right. Funny thing is, like, I don't think either of them are that quote. I think the Pajero is probably quirkier because it's, like, got box flares and stuff on it and, and it could just as easily not have those things. They made a regular Pajero that looked a lot like a regular Jimny. I think that, I think because there is a regular picture Pajero that looks kind of like a regular Jimney, the Evo is quirkier.

[Zach]

Okay. Zach's nitrous blue balls. Am I the only one who misses Panther platform cars on our roads? Take me back to the era when every cop car was a Crown Vic. Do you miss. I don't really miss seeing town cars.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

I miss the Panther platform. I mean, I still see plenty of them around. I saw a fucking LAPD black and white not two weeks ago. That was a Crown Vic still active. Like I, I, I see them. Yeah, they ain't, they ain't all that. I mean, come on, they're tough.

[Zach]

I think they're living their, their retirement career right now is race cars and stunt cars and for dirtbags like myself or in high school, as reliable transportation is a great life.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Plain white Carrera tees. Is getting a PPI as a seller worth it to show potential buyers that it's a good car? Or would the potential buyers think that that is suspicious and assume the seller is in with the guy who did the ppi?

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Somewhere in between. Somewhere in between. It's a nice to have, but I, as a buyer, wouldn't put much credence into it because, because of what you just said. I mean, it's not, it's not that. It's, it's not that you hired the guy to write a fake ppi, it's that the point is that it's independent. And so if. If the. The guy selling the car is. Is tight with the guy doing the ppi, then it is just an appearance of. Of being improper.

[Zach]

Sure.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

But like, the. The man, the mechanic works for the person who pays them. So if the seller is paying them, he's going to tell the seller a little more what they want to hear versus if he works for a buyer, he's going to tell a buyer what they. What they need to hear.

[Zach]

Sometimes I wonder if you like, if. If. If I was selling a car and I was. If I was like a independent dealership that also did the PPI and then you bought the car and I had misrepresented it somehow on the ppi, would there be legal recourse? No. Okay. Yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

You can. You can lie about anything to anybody on a car and there's no legal recourse. As a dealer, you are. If you're a dealer, you are. You could be sued for misrepresentation as an individual. No.

[Zach]

Right.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

You can get away with that.

[Zach]

So as a dealership.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah, yeah. As a dealership, you could be sued for misrepresentation. Yes, you could. But, like, if you're a seller and you want to really have a good faith showing as a seller, what you should do is take the car to the person who normally services it and say, go through it and give it anything it needs, whatever that might be. And then you go. When you list it, you go. You don't say, here's a ppi. You say, I took it in for service. I said, do whatever it needs. Here's what they did. We are welcome to have any PPIs and then make the car available for the prospective buyer to do a ppi. That's make. Make it easy for the buyer to get a PPI is better than getting a PPI as a seller.

[Zach]

Got it. Sean Burnham. I'm considering selling my car for a motorcycle, but I live in Canada, near Toronto, and I'm worried about shortening my already short driving season, which currently is seven months out of the year. We've ridden motorcycles before. What do we think?

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

I man the idea of motorcycles where it's in a place that's cold and raining is not appealing to me at all.

[Zach]

No. Our friend Mike Musto used to commute to work from, like, Jersey to Manhattan in the winter on a motorcycle with like, heated suit, heated Glo. Like, you plug the suit in when you get on the bike. And I. I'm very impressed he did that. And I was like, man, all right. You know, Mike, that's pretty tough, but I don't want to do it. It doesn't sound fun. It sounds like you're just doing it because it's. It's a tool. It's easier to park or it's quicker to get into town. But, like, are you going to enjoy that riding or you just. What do you do? What do you do for those seven months out of the year? Yeah, you know, just take public transportation. I don't know. I would keep the car.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

I would. I would keep it.

[Zach]

You can have fun driving in the winter time. You're in Canada. Yeah, Go snow driving. Go. Go do snow racing.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

You need a heater. Yeah.

[Zach]

Carbs. Legal bakery. Have we lost the automotive industry's North Star Mercedes Benz V8 engine?

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yes, we have.

[Zach]

Yeah. Mercedes Benz was once seen as the brand that was at the forefront of it all. They were years ahead of everything and had all the new things first. I feel this is not the case anymore. And not sure if automakers are still viewed that way. It says parentheses. Some might say it's Tesla, but I think that. I think they used to say that.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah.

[Zach]

I mean, like, do we have. Who's our tech leader the way Mercedes used to be? I think Mercedes.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Chinese, dude.

[Zach]

It's all.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

It's like. It's like whatever the Camry is in China is so much more tech than an S Class. Like, it's that. It's not. It's nothing that anyone in America is driving, you know? Yeah, it's. They. They have, you know, effectively, you know, Some. Some level 3 autonomy over there for privately owned cars. Well, that's beyond what we've got.

[Zach]

They have, you know, hydraulic suspension at lower prices. They've got the crazy electric speed. I mean, you know, they're out there, like, competing for Nurburgring times and whatnot.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Yeah, that's probably the right answer.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Or I mean, maybe it would be like. The thing is, like, a lot of the. A lot of the tech advances don't necessarily translate into, like, features. Like, it used to be like, Mercedes would, like, add a feature to the car that other people don't have now. It's not really like that. There were sort of at the limit of features and the stuff that gets added is, like backgroundy type things like that. Like a, like a, you know, like a hybrid powertrain or something. Is not. Is not something that, like, I am using.

[Zach]

You don't interact with it. Right.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

You know, so Mercedes still does have a lot of technology, but the leader,

[Zach]

I think they used to like when they had night vision, you know, early on or, I mean they had ABS early on, but then night vision or sophisticated traction control or, or whatever. It was probably because they were thinking up these ideas, finding partners that could build them. And now I think we're in an era where the people that have built those things in China just went, what if we just make the car ourselves? Or they partner with byd, who lives out, who works down the street. So you're getting that, you know, quote, early tech, you know, from these other, other sources.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah, yeah.

[Zach]

John Athen Davis. I recently picked up an O2CLK430 Cabrio. It's fun for bombing around manual. Chesko. I don't know where that is. Chesco. Chesapeake. I don't know. Maybe fun for heading to the shore. But the columns, the, the steering column not tilting is very annoying. Are there any solutions out there for that?

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

I don't believe so.

[Zach]

Don't. That's. I wouldn't open that bag of worms.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah, I've, I've never seen, I wouldn't mess with the steering shaft of a Mercedes, dude.

[Zach]

Just. You just deal with it. Adjust your seat. I mean, it's a cabrio like, all right, just put your hands on the bottom and steer like it's a Rolls Royce.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

No, you're better off trying to change the seat than changing the steering wheel. Yes, but this is a, you know, that's a problem with a lot of cars. A lot of, a lot of old cars. That's a, that's a one way kind of adjustment, if anything.

[Zach]

Talk about a, a solution for a market of one, though. It's like I want a tilting column for a 24 year old car.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

If we're gonna do that, it's gonna be for the S2000.

[Zach]

Yes.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

No ifs and fucking butts. The CLK market is, is not big enough. But I know a few tall people that would like to drive an S2000.

[Zach]

Very true, Edward. Shifter hands wants to add.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

That's funny.

[Zach]

Yeah. They're looking to add another vehicle. Not a daily driver. Something to alternate with my 23 Camaro SS1 LE manual. Any good garage suggest. Oh, this is too broad. Oh, $30,000 budget, but no other constraints.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Wait, the Camaro SS is the Daily.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

And so you want. He wants something.

[Zach]

They want something interesting for 30 grand to complement their Camaro. But I think, I don't think we

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

have enough information that's not a lot of information. I mean if a Camaro is big and heavy and brutish and it drives like wearing a hoodie, the opposite of that for 30k would be like a BMW E30 325i cabrio.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

With like nice suspension and a super sprint exhaust.

[Zach]

I think you want something slow and interesting.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah, yeah. Fun to like rev out but like light, good visibility.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

I think an e. A great E36

[Zach]

cylinder or a truck. Like an off road truck.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah.

[Zach]

But I think, I think that's as much we can give them because we don't know where they live. Right. What are some. Oh, this is not the bees. What are some common financial misconceptions or bad decisions we see non enthusiasts make when it comes to cars? Oh man.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Boy, are there a great many.

[Zach]

Yeah, that.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

I mean just all the upside down loans that I mean, you know, you're, you're the ego driving the need to always have a brand new car when the bank account very much cannot afford that.

[Zach]

There's a good following Instagram. The guy, I think his name is like riding with Yousef and he's like a used luxury car dealer in Miami. But his content is like people calling in trying to rotate out of their underwater Hellcat 23 into a 25.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And. And he puts these videos out to inform people who might be thinking about this. Like here's how to not get underwater while there's ash on my computer. How to not get underwater on a loan. And it's. If you're, if you haven't bought a car yet, watch one of these videos and you realize how quickly and badly people get.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah.

[Zach]

But. And they put themselves and they. And you hear them like on the phone learning how finance works and it's really sad.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

They're learning about their own credit from like a fucking used car dealer in Miami. Yeah, that's the, that's not where you want to be learning about your credit.

[Zach]

Well, usually, I mean speculate. A lot of used car dealerships prey on the people who don't know about their credit. Credit to him for no pun intended, like helping inform them. But yeah, that's the biggest financial misconception is that getting into a newer car is necessary. A smart financial decision that stretching for a car is a good idea in any way. And I think a big one is not considering all the costs for a car, you know, for sure. Insurance like factoring that in and the terms of your loan, like how long is it? How much are you actually going to Pay for this thing over eight years.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah. Or you know buying a enthusiast car if you're not you know that the question is that we see non enthusiasts make but it's really more casual enthusiasts that dive in with both feet without really looking at the is am I buying? You know bring. Bring a trailer and cars and bids are great sites but the, and they, and they attract a lot of first time buyers of auction and enthusiast cars and as someone who sells cars on these platforms there's a whole lot of people that will click to bid and then not really realize what they've done. I mean they've bought a car that the money for that car is going to so they'll buy a car and then they'll get very sketched out about the idea idea of a wire transfer. Like what exactly did you think was going to happen when you had to pay for this car? Like the money has to change hands. Like you know what I mean? Like it's so, so I think you know also a little. It's, it's become so easy to make an account and just click bid and and then not realize what you've actually done if you. Or you know or it's. It's also conversely it's become pretty easy to abuse those platforms.

[Zach]

Right.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

To if you're a malicious actor.

[Zach]

Yeah. So there's no way. There's no sec for that area.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Front wheel drive by the way that

[Zach]

also there's no sec in general.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

You could have stopped the sentence just right there.

[Zach]

Front wheel drive nsx. What is the most diverse car fan base they recently got into at the GMT 800World on Facebook and they said boy howdy goes all the way from wannabe blue collar teens all the way to very hardcore.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah. I mean starting from a perspective of pickup trucks and SUV like that, that makes a lot of sense. I think maybe, maybe wranglers. I mean think about the Jeep wrangler who's driving those, who's modifying them and how many ways you can do that

[Zach]

and how expensive they can get.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah, how expensive but also how cheap.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

You know like I mean I we. There's a Jeep wrangler up my road that has one of those like Terradyne kits on it or whatever where it looks like some apocalypse thing with like those giant loud tires. And then also I go bird hunting in the deep south off a trailer that's towed by like a 25 year old four cylinder pile Wrangler driven by a 300 pound redneck with three dogs

[Zach]

and then one of my friends who's like a set, a set designer and like most amazing costumes and just extroverted person. She's been driving a sun yellow rain wrangler with no doors for like 10 years. It's all sun cooked. It's got like flower seat covers and stuff like total beach mobile.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Cher from Clueless. And then my gym teacher. Teacher shout out to Mr. C. My gym teacher from high school full time.

[Zach]

I was there every year when, when it still exists. But gaywheels.com was a thing and I think they had the ring listed as like.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Is that Donnie? Donnie was gay wheels, right? Oh, Donnie Nordlicht wasn't Donnie Nordlick gaywheels.com maybe. I think he was, but I think,

[Zach]

I think the Wrangler was listed like it's popular among all demographics.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah, yeah, you, you could always, you could find a wrangler for almost every single demographic group possible. Yeah, I think that's, I think that's even better than GMT 8.

[Zach]

I think it's a great answer. Yeah. Two Ghibli's, one cupra. That's really funny. That's great.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

It should be two, two cupras, one Ghibli, two.

[Zach]

Well, no, it's two girls, one cup.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Oh, I guess that's right.

[Zach]

Yeah. As Porsche is now a public company, I mean they have been for a little bit. Are we worried that due to their recent financial problems, they will be susceptible to trying to eke out short term profit?

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

You know, I mean, I think, I think probably not. I think they're, I mean, look, I think the GT3 cabrio is, is a, is a profit project because they didn't have, they, It's a parts bin car and that doesn't make it a bad car. It doesn't make it underdeveloped. But it's certainly cheaper to make than a Speedster. Yeah, it's a, it's a way to squeeze a lot of profit out of parts they were already making.

[Zach]

Isn't the GT4 also that like they took the GT3 engine, they put it in the, you know, Cayman?

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah. So I mean, I don't think they're going to start building a bunch of garbage. And I think Porsche's shareholders understand

[Matt Farah]

why

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

the, they lost all the profit last year. I mean they made, they made a big bet that turned out to be bad, but it's not like their business model is fundamentally unsound.

[Zach]

And I would also say that, I mean they might do a few more special editions than they might have planned, but I don't think that will undo all the damage done by losing, you know these huge EV market like the number of cars they were selling for with the macan and all that stuff. Like that's a lot to make up and I don't think you could just do it with like a couple of special 911s even, even doing that per year.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah, they're talking about tooling up whole factories and then like shutting it down.

[Zach]

We're talking about tens of thousands of cars every year and they lost those sales. That's a lot song for the dead pedal. That's pretty cool. Audi brought out all the stops for their heritage collection at Goodwood Festival of Speed. Which manufacturer do we think could definitively win at Goodwood with their heritage collection? Like who would we want to see you know in our mind would be the coolest manufacturer to bring out everything in their barn.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

I mean Ferrari is you know. Sure Ferrari is the obvious answer but. But it wouldn't make me as happy as if it was like maybe Aston Martin

[Zach]

but I think, I think Ford. I mean this is similar to the question we've had before which is like only have like celebrate one. They just. They've got the mid engine racers from the 60s and now they've got cool muscle cars and then they've got crazy off road stuff that and they've got

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

race cars they didn't build but they supplied engines for F1 cars and group C cars and like that cars, you know.

[Zach]

Expand it.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah, yeah that's probably the better answer. Is probably Ford or actually, I mean actually maybe even, maybe even GM but I think probably Ford over gm.

[Zach]

That's true.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Cuz if you expand GM to all the brands I mean you could really pick and choose some bangers.

[Zach]

Yeah. I just think seeing variety. So like McLaren would only have mid engine cars and F1 cars.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah.

[Zach]

So tapping Z's nuts. What's the ugliest car you would own? Only because the experience is too damn good. Their examples are like first gen Panamera Chevy HHR ss. Absolutely not.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Oh man. A car. That's where the driving experience overpowers its ugliness.

[Zach]

Well you like the old S advantage. That's just me too old.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

The one from the 8, the one from the 70s. You don't like those?

[Zach]

It looks like a Mustang. It's. They're growing on me slowly but of

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

course it looks like a Mustang. But like a more expensive Mustang.

[Zach]

Yeah, that's true. A less reliable more expensive Mustang.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

I don't. It's hard for Me, a car that's ugly but drives really good. There's not a lot of them.

[Zach]

See, I feel like we answered maybe C8 Corvette. I think we answered a similar question a week ago. I'm realizing C8 Corvette,

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

the narrow body one. Yeah.

[Zach]

I don't like it, but it's one of the best driving cars.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Sure. I mean, the Ferrari eight. Four, I wouldn't, I would not want. I think I, I wouldn't want to own that. What's. I mean, most people are not that into the Ferrari Mondial T. Most people call that an ugly car. I don't think it's that ugly. And they drive a lot like 348s and they have four seats. And that's kind of, that's kind of interesting.

[Zach]

Yeah, that's kind of cool. Yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

I mean a lot of people think the Aston Martin Lagonda is ugly. And I would, I would with one of those. Even though it probably doesn't drive very good.

[Zach]

All wheel drive biased. How does e East coast car culture differ from west coast car culture?

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

I mean, other than it's being a shorter season, the Internet has really very much evened the playing field. So on the east coast, it's, it's. You don't, I mean, you don't have like low riders. And out here, at least not in Greenwich, you might in, in the Bronx somewhere in Queens you might have some low riders, but. But not out here. Out here, what we have is the same kind of thing you have in like Calabasas where it's like car spotter culture. So it's like the kids that run up and down Greenwich Avenue and wait for people in hypercars and supercars to drive by. You know, the, the, the kids drive the same. They drive everywhere. I mean it's, it's, there's not some secret here. Although as I was saying last night as we were driving back from dinner, you know, being in, in Connecticut reminds me that like there are places where your daily driver like where handling and brakes and stuff matter because there's lots of curves and hills on, on every single drive you take. Unlike where we are.

[Zach]

Yeah. Okay.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Nothing else.

[Zach]

We got some fun work.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

I had nothing else.

[Zach]

A second JZ has hit the supra is carbon fiber trim on every single interior of 4,500 pound cars. The 2000 and twenties version of Baby boomer chrome. That's pretty interesting.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah. I mean it might not age well. Yeah, might not age well.

[Zach]

It's not a, the Venn diagram is not a circle, but it's close because it's like it's trying to highlight, you know, chrome was luxury, right? It was like the more chrome you see, the more expensive this was. And now it's like the more carbon fiber. Race. Race sportiness. Even if you're in a huge vehicle.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yes. It is your high tech. Your. It's your pavlovian trigger for sportiness, for sporty technology. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. That's a good thought.

[Zach]

It's a good thought.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

My new Vespa has fake carbon fiber on it.

[Zach]

It does.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah. Because you know, it's all the. All instead of chrome. It's blacked out.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

On mine. But the center stripe down the front fascia is fake carbon fiber.

[Zach]

That's funny. EBay. Carbon. Zach looks like the singer from Turnstile. We determined. I don't. Can you name the five cars that would give a driver the opportunity to learn and understand driving feel and Dynamics?

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Sure. Miata911.

[Zach]

Integra type R. Integra Type R. The old one.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Mitsubishi Evo eight nine.

[Zach]

Yeah. And Ranger Raptor.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Ah, that could be a good one.

[Zach]

Feel the lean.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Do we have a. We don't have a mid engine car in there, do we?

[Zach]

Oh, we don't.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

I would. I would probably put a mid engine. A mid engine car in there before I'd put a Ranger Raptor. Yeah, I'd probably put like Cayman. Yeah, yeah. Some kind of a. Some kind of Cayman.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

So you've got. You got. Yeah. Miata. Yeah, that's fine.

[Zach]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Okay.

[Zach]

Blasting AMG spot.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Wow. Wow.

[Zach]

They have kids on the way. No kidding. With that name, Hope, can we help them create a list of cars to test drive? New CPO lease doesn't matter. 75 grand or 12,000 a year. For the. On a lease, they're leaning sedan, but open suv. Reliable. Wait, sorry. Looking for gas or hybrid. Comfortable, not boring. Good back seats. Adaptive cruise for LA traffic.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Volvo V60R.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Or V or. Yeah. Volvo XC60 with the. With the good interior or a. A V. Yeah.

[Zach]

That was like 72, right?

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

72,000.

[Zach]

You love that car.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

I think was. Is dope.

[Zach]

I would say Acura zdx. Also great adaptive cruise, very comfortable seats.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah, you can get those. Those are not expensive.

[Zach]

Definitely less than 75 grand. It says budget stretches to 75.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

I mean, if. If you are open to electric vehicles. The Mach E Rally.

[Zach]

Yep.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Is a. Is a good time and also good for families.

[Zach]

Absolutely.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

75 grand will get you a sweet used Panamera Turbo. Like big back seat you know, or a fast Cayenne if you wanted something like that.

[Zach]

That would be very fun. It's such a waste in LA traffic, but it's a very fun idea.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

I mean I'm looking at, well, I'm looking at, you know, Cayenne hybrids, you know, off, off lease. 20 some thousand miles. 75 grand.

[Zach]

Yep.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

That's good for LA. Speaking of which, my, my, I had talked to my dad because our trailer is actually coming in a few weeks. Really is coming. And I was like, you know, when you're done with your Cayenne hybrid, can I buy it off you and, and maybe and use it to tow with? Because he's really got not a lot of miles on.

[Zach]

Sure.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

And it's paint to sample and it's bitching. It does not have a tow package. So I've done some research and I've found out that you can actually install, install a factory tow package later. But you have to either get a new rear bumper that has a cutout for the tow thing or if you are comfortable having a body shop, just cut it. You know, just cut it and, and sort of try to trim it. You can do that.

[Zach]

Have Sean do it.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

I think we probably could have a tow hitch just cut out or you

[Zach]

take the bumper off, install the tow hitch and then have the Joey Sealy off road bar put on the back. Oh, but it might leave too much exposed.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah, I mean we have, we'll have to do some math on it, but I, it's, it's about 1800 bucks in parts from Porsche and you have to, you have to use a P whiz, which is a Porsche dealer computer to code the anti sway and the, the, the, the air suspension for towing. But, but it, I, I, Mitch, our buddy Mitch McKee from M Engineering. I talked to someone at Porsche like it can be done. Okay, so that's, that's a, that's possibly on the table.

[Zach]

I want to watch you negotiate with Roger. I'm just making sure there's nothing like wrong. Great.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

What you just checking to make sure our live stream was still live streaming? Seems it is. What else?

[Zach]

All right, two more. Your poorest patron. Regarding radial engines. What conventional engine would we compare the radial to in terms of power delivery and feel? And if you could upsize it to a five or seven cylinder, what other cars would benefit from a radial? Well, it would get really big.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

It would really big.

[Zach]

It wouldn't fit in anything.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah, it, it doesn't you, there isn't room to just add silk. You'd have to physically wider room for it. And so there's a guy who did like a seven or nine cylinder one and he turned it flat and it was like. It was almost like a truck, a truck pickup truck almost with a cab with like no bed and the engine horizontal, you know, on the back and there was some kind of thing that turned the drive 90 degrees vibrate.

[Zach]

I just imagining all these weird forces.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

I saw a video of it like on Instagram. I. You know, I don't. It seemed pretty hardcore. I'm not sure it was an improvement over what I've actually.

[Zach]

Cool experiment. All right.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah. The power band, I mean it does sound weird. It sounds somewhere between like a Harley or like a Ducati.

[Zach]

Yeah, does.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

It's. It's Ducati ish at idle and then it very much sounds like a propeller aircraft at. At higher rpm. But the power band is. Is linear. I mean it, it doesn't. It. It drives like a naturally aspirated, you know, four cylinder engine or something.

[Zach]

Yeah. I think it has more torque. I feel like it.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Maybe it drives like a flat. Flat four.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

You know, is kind of. It's torquey.

[Zach]

Yep.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

You do not have to wind it to redline and if you put your foot down, it's fast.

[Zach]

It's quick enough for sure.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

But it drives like a regular car. It just sounds. Sounds kind of weird.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Sounds like a plane.

[Zach]

Like I don't know what like car that would benefit from a radial. It's like you just have to like what the engine is. It's not a performance advantage, a packaging advantage. It's none of those things.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

No, it's not better for like really anything.

[Zach]

Yeah. I think the benefit of. Well, you don't even need that like once you get to huge. You know the giant airplane engines that made 2,000 horsepower, you know, they were enormous, but I don't. But you can make 2000 horsepower now with a small turbo.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Zach]

So you don't need that.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

It's. It's weird. For the sake of being weird and steampunk. It's not, it's not that it's better. It's just that it's weird to be fun. Yeah. The fact that it works at all is amazing.

[Zach]

It kind of is. Especially with like this weird oil, you know, evacuation valve thing. Straight fife dog scenario has a question about PPIs. I bought my car from a mechanic and assumed he had taken care of it. Bad assumption. Oops. Learned lesson has it been our experience that a licensed mechanic will not reveal issues and get one over on an unsuspecting customer. I think like any. Like anything with humans, there's good and bad. So there's mechanics. You see it a lot on Craigslist or like shopping for cars. Like mechanics special. Yeah, they bought it, they repaired something to flip it, or they're selling their own car. Like, what's the guy's name? Matt Quick. You know, he's selling that Mercedes, it's his. So if they're a good person, maybe they, you know, know how to fix the car. They flipped it. Their labor is free. Great. But there also are probably people that use that calling card card as an advertisement and they know you can't return the car. You're like, go yourself.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

If it's a mechanic who really cares about their reputation, if they've got a name in some sort of an enthusiast community and you're buying a car from them and they really care about and understand the value of their reputation long term, then maybe it means something. If it's just some dude on the corner who's. I'm a MC mechanic, then there is no guarantee that car has been taken care of at all, you know, or that they're not going to you.

[Zach]

Yeah. I would say look up the reviews of their business before you drive the car. That might tell you a lot. All right, last one. Supercar question. Perfect. To bookend our Ferrari topic. Put it in the ditch. Martha, is the name really funny.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Oh, leave my Forex girlfriends alone.

[Zach]

That's so funny.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

That's funny.

[Zach]

All right. In today's supercar world, everything has a plethora of nannies, which is the main reason people look for more raw experience.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

849, you have to turn off ADAs every time you start the car.

[Zach]

It's got to be. It's a European requirement, right? Yeah. Yeah. With cars like the Temerario making people feel overconfident in their own skills, at what point do the nannies make the experience feel less special and that they aren't? And then therefore rendering the car not worth today's prices.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

When the nannies get really good, you aren't supposed to know that they're there. And you know what I mean? Like, like.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

The funniest thing is when you see people get really surprised at what happens when they turn the traction control off in their car. They don't really realize that they were driving, you know, down 100 horsepower or with this very, very clever system that was keeping them from doing whatever was going to happen without it. When we drive cars in the canyons, we don't touch the traction control at all.

[Zach]

Not really. Sport plus mode, whatever.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah. I mean, but that's more for throttle settings and gearbox settings than to have a more permissive traction control system on public roads. On a racetrack, if it's a different story where you go, I'm going flat and it's clearly not delivering and you know. Or. And you're not getting oversteer or understeer at all. If you're on a racetrack and you're not getting oversteer, understeer at all, your traction control is probably on and probably very good.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Only starts to take away from the experience for me when you're going very, very fast on racetracks. When you're on the road, I leave everything on almost.

[Zach]

And I think the more sophisticated it gets then, the more desirable it is because it gets you closer and closer to driving perfection. Meaning, like making your driving perfect. When, when Mercedes came out with the AMG GTR Pro and they had the 10 mode, like, traction selector switch, that was a cool breakthrough everybody really liked because you could seriously just turn the knob. How much help do you want to get around this track? Faster. Faster. To train you to drive better. Better. And so I think, like, we welcome that progression because it gets us closer to, you know, the perfect lap or whatever without being like, without totally disturbing your driving. Whereas it used to maybe 10 years ago. Yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

And some of these systems make you look really good. I mean, if you've got the Ferrari System or the McLaren system, you know, you can do some pretty solid slides with that thing in like the middle setting.

[Zach]

Right.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

And it'll unwind nicely and it, and it won't be scary. And like, those are pretty cool. Like there's, there's a whole world in between. On and off.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

That is designed for you to play it right.

[Zach]

It helps you play safely and kind of. It's an education.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Without like big consequences. You know, you just go full off in your 750 and you've never done it.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Yeah. You could spin out, but if you're, if your goal is to keep the car not necessarily straight, but, but, but, but gripped if you want to. You know, then in even a temerario with the systems on will still be pretty exciting. Yeah. You'll still be going very, very fast. So I, I wouldn't worry too much about it until you, you know, really get comfortable with the car and you. When you can start to go fast enough where you can actually feel this isn't what this. You know, I could go past this here and then you could start to turn it down.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

Thank you for joining us live from Greenwich, Connecticut. Maybe we'll do if Nat has good Internet, maybe we'll do his live too. We actually have another show this afternoon that will probably broadcast the the same way through my computer on Patreon with my very old friend Nat Mundy, who is a really interesting entrepreneur from around here who I've known for 25 years and he's a fun guy. So that's going to be a fun show this afternoon. And for everyone else, thank you for listening, watching, playing along, submitting your questions. You can get our blazer collab with the Grotto right now. The link is on our Instagram. We're going to be selling those through August 6th or something, I think. August 6th, July 6th to August, one month. Yeah, they're really cool. They come in US sizes. They're very tailorable and although they are not cheap, they are certainly not fast fashion. They're designed, designed to last a lifetime. And if you were having this garment made just by itself, it would be a thousand bucks. So it's really cool. And we're gonna have tickets are up on our Instagram. The page is live for TST with Smith and Sniff in Los Angeles, technically Irvine at the Irvine Improv. Come on down.

[Zach]

August 18th starts at 8pm so doors at like 7. That's gonna be so much fun. Those guys are hilarious.

[Jeff Zurschmeide]

It's gonna be a really good time. And that's all I got. We'll see you later today, if not next week. Goodbye.