B (2:49)

So we have to imagine going through the trouble of getting a V8 into a car, only to end up with so little power. What a fucking shame.

C (2:58)

I had the same thought, except one. It's like, it's true to this car. So it's like on brand, we'll say. The other thing, though, is that this engine weighs 50 pounds less than the iron inline four that came out of it. It's the Miata problem, because that inline four was iron, and this thing is an all aluminum block, aluminum heads, aluminum everything. So it's actually significantly lighter. So it's. It is much quicker, and it's a good momentum machine. It's just like, on the straights, it sounded like you're going fast, and then a Jetta walks you, you know, and lemons. You never know at lemons. Sometimes the cars look like garbage and they're fast. Sometimes they look fast and they're garbage and everything in between. So I don't know if that was, like, tuned up or what, but I'm pretty sure I got walked by a VR6. Yeah. Well, let's see. Let me screen share, because there's a picture that you should see that will explain how the week started. How do I do there, screen?

B (3:58)

Well, you did send me a picture of a car that was, rather than being on the track, was apart and being worked on.

C (4:07)

So that's.

B (4:08)

That set it up early in the weekend.

C (4:12)

Right. Well, there's. There's two parts to this story, so let's see. You should be able to see stuff now. Okay, great.

B (4:18)

Yep, Yep. Oh, that's the mg. Oh, it's got a bunch of speed holes in the hood.

C (4:23)

They just cut those holes for heat.

B (4:25)

Yeah, I mean, it does look from this angle, like rather good.

A (4:30)

It's a kind of a pretty.

B (4:31)

Is it. Is it a full coupe, or is it just off a hard top?

C (4:34)

No, full coupe, which. I've always wanted to drive one of these. I think they look great. And of course, the one I drive is Frankenstein. I think they've built it five or 10 years ago. It's gone through a couple iterations. It, like jumping ahead. It actually handles great. The shock damping was really good until one of the shocks decided to quit the race early, which we could talk about. It's very tight inside. Like, it's small, even for Me glucker fits, but like your arms are banging into stuff. It's a very small cockpit. And steering feedback is good. But I'll get ahead to. Let me just show you this real quick.

B (5:13)

So that looks like Jeff's Montero on a trailer.

C (5:17)

Yeah. So I'm driving me.

B (5:21)

The fucking Ranchero is towing the trailer.

C (5:24)

No, it's being towed by the coolest, best zombie apocalypse excursion in the world. So unfortunately for Jeff, on the way up there, he went to get gas off in Gorman. Basically, for people listening, this was like an hour into a three hour drive. And he looks under the car and there's lots of oil, to quote him, falling from the vehicle and too much oil to drive. So Tim, the guy that owns the.

B (5:51)

Engine, did he just lose the drain plug or is this a catastrophic failure of some kind?

C (5:55)

Well, you know, we go pick up the car and you got a bunch of mechanics at Lemons. We got two days. We're like, we could probably fix whatever's happening. Let's be optimistic. And then four guys dive under the hood to take a look and they all pop back out, you know, like, like water polo players out of the water. And they go, front main seal. So it's.

B (6:14)

It's not like engine out.

C (6:16)

Yeah. And they, and they were willing and then they looked, they did some research online to see how involved it is. And the answer is extremely. Yeah, so the. But we used to, um, AAA like 200 mile limit towing. And see Jeff sent it back down to his house. Uh, so not a great start to a weekend. And then the joke was, well, Jeff's car sacrificed itself to the maintenance gods. So maybe the other cars will run well all weekend.

B (6:45)

Sure, sure. That's like, that's. That's good. Like car guy math.

C (6:49)

It's total car guy math. Right?

B (6:50)

Yeah.

A (6:51)

Yeah.

C (6:52)

So Saturday I went out first.

B (6:54)

This angle you just. Zach just pulled up a picture of this fucking MGB at a front three quarter. That's a tough looking little car, dude.

C (7:02)

It's such a good looking car for people. Just Google MGB gt. They got a great hat shape. Very small car. Yeah. Good stance. Good everything.

B (7:14)

Most of them in stock, they would sit too high and the wheels were too small. This looks like the wheels have been plus one and it's at the correct ride height. And that really, really looks good.

C (7:26)

Hell, I was so stoked.

B (7:27)

Yeah.

C (7:28)

What does it has? It has drum brakes in the rear. It's got a live axle. It's got a TK5 trans, just like the Ranchero, which I Think is becoming one of my favorite transmissions with. With the right shift lever, it's like you can shift it quicker than a Corvette, but it feels really precise. It is a great.

B (7:45)

Yeah, that's a fox body gearbox.

C (7:47)

Yeah, they're good, like, with good bushings and stuff. Yeah.

B (7:51)

As long as you're not trying to put, like 800 horsepower through one. If you've got, like, sub 300 horsepower, a T5 is lovely.

C (7:59)

I really liked it. And both cars had the same one. It felt familiar. But each car has its little asterisks, caveats, how to. How to drive the vehicle, we'll say. So a bunch of the guys on the team have driven this car before, and they're explaining to me, I think the night before, they're like, all right, so when you. When you hit it, when you get on the brakes, you have to press the brakes twice. And I go, what are you talking about? And there's some. I don't remember or understand the interaction that's happening. But at the front, the fronts are discs, the rears are drums. At the front, there's some sort of, like, spring plate that catches. And if you just press the brake pedal once, you only activate the rear brakes. So every time you break Matt Farah, on this course of 12 turns, whatever it is, you have to double tap the brake pedal. So you. You do like a quick press. I agree. You do a quick press and then you do. And then you break the way you would normally break and apply it. So that was insane. It's.

B (9:07)

Why would anybody build a car like that?

C (9:10)

I. Well, they ended up here, and they've tried to fix it. Lemons. For so many people, it's like, you know, they build the thing all year or whatever. They don't, like, they don't test it, and then they go out and they try it and it doesn't work. So last time they ran this car, the pistons were so strong that they somehow pressed through the brake pad, backing plate, and the pad, like, cut holes in it like Swiss cheese. And that was obviously very scary. So, you know, Tim. Tim's a good driver, and he was out there and he's like, all of a sudden I had no front brakes, and we lear. So.

B (9:43)

Yeah, that's. That's wild.

C (9:44)

You know, they put a new plate thing on it, and now you have to do this double break thing. And it was so funny that all the. All the guys in the team were like, yeah, it's what you do. You know, it's like, yeah, it's weird. It's not great, but it's like kind of fun. And yes, it is kind of fun. You just accept that you have to do this. And I went out first session Saturday, I started the race, which is a really fun way to do lemons because your speeds aren't super high yet because there's a lot of traffic, but you get to manage traffic and you pass a lot of people. There's just a lot happening. There's a lot of yellow flags happening also, which is gets a little annoying.

B (10:21)

Someone always does something real stupid at the start. And so the first thing is to avoid that. But then it's like, you know, then it's mayhem for about four or five laps until people settle into a pace.

C (10:33)

Yeah, I think I call the first 30 minutes getting to know the corner workers, because each corner worker gets to wave their yellow flag at a different time. There were so many cars going off, but then like the herd thins out a bit. So I'm driving this thing and I'm doing the double tap. And it's like a silly gimmick, but it's working. And it's got good grip, except out of tight corners. It's a open diff. And so yes, it has no power, but the torque is like pretty good. So you gotta be really gentle on throttle. And I'm sitting there like coming out of the S's and just feeling the slip happen and letting off and I'm going. McLaren deserves so much credit for their electronics to make an open diff work so well, because this is the mechanical version and it's just, it's one of the big hamstrings on this car.

B (11:22)

Yeah, I mean, man, you're just, you're really disappointed me with this car. It started off looking so great and now it's got these stupid brakes and open diffuser. No, I'm very quickly wanting, not wanting to drive this thing anymore.

C (11:36)

But there's only a few corners where the diff is an issue. The rest of it, like the high speed corners. It's awesome. Yeah, the shock damping, like I was taking the S's in the back of Button Willow, flat out hitting each side a little bit. It's not disturbed. It was a really fun handling car. And the team afterwards, like we all agreed, like fixing the brake thing would be great. The problem with the diff is to change the diff, you then have to change like the rear braking and suspension system. Like there's a lot of knock on effects of changing that thing because this car is so old you can't just like, I mean, maybe you could buy a really expensive diff to put in it. But the owner was basically saying if I put a posi in the back, now I have to reconfigure where the shocks go. Now I have to reconfigure this. Now I have to change that. So it's. That's why it's more complicated. I mean, they're well aware that that's a problem. But everything's going great. I did like a 2 hour, 15 minute stint, and I think around 2 hours.

B (12:33)

That's a long stint.

A (12:34)

Wow.

C (12:34)

I did, I did two long stints each day or one long stand each day. Uh, and the only. So, you know, I'm managing this double break system and I feel like I'm playing drums, you know, like double bass type of situation with Lamb of God or whatever. And I'm coming through bus stop, which if people are listening, it's, you know, little right and then it's. There's a left and another left that tightens. And for some reason, this brake system gets more upset under high speed left hand corners. And a double tap is not sufficient. It needs a triple tap. So, so I come at the bus stop and I do the double thing and I have no front brakes, and then I'm overcooking it and then I try to hit the brake again and then I just full on spin, but stay on the track. I just, just come into a stop and I got to tell you, it's one of the most unique views I've ever had, is looking out the passenger window and you just see race cars coming towards you. And I go, oh, this is not good.

B (13:33)

Yeah, this is really bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

C (13:36)

No one hit me. I didn't get black flag because I stayed on the track, which is an advantage of this tiny, tiny car. But that was basically the end of my stint anyway. And I went in and I was like, man, this thing is so fun, but these brakes suck.

A (13:48)

Like, yeah, I mean, that's just like.

B (13:51)

Like when, like, I. Like when cars are a little different. You got to do something different, like the dumb little red knob on the Manx and all that stuff. But if you're talking about actual wheel to wheel racing, going for it. We. We can't have to have pumping of brakes. I mean, that's just. That's crazy.

A (14:11)

I. I mean, I can't think it's.

C (14:13)

More common at lemons than you think, but I agree with you. It's like this is a fundamental safety system.

B (14:18)

Um, yeah.

C (14:19)

So hopefully, hopefully they work out because the car is fun. The owner, I mean, the whole team gelled so well. It was so much fun. And we all just accepted this kind of silly thing. It's not going to place in class, but it's. It's a riot to drive when it. When it's going, um, oh, but okay, so it wasn't that hot yet, but the guy, he made two marks on the gauges, on the. On the oil temp and the water temp. And he's like, if it gets up to yellow, just, you know, back it down a bit, shift early, yada, yada. So it's getting really warm on the water side through my whole stint, and I'm. And then I start upshifting really early and I'm cruising the whole track and forth. Oil comes down, water doesn't. This story continues through the day. And one of the other drivers, it overheats basically well past where it should have been. So that's when I sent you a photo because we. After lots of diagnostic checks, because everyone's just going, let's check this before we decide it's a head gasket. Let's check this before we decide it's a head gasket. Well, we did all those diagnostic checks and wouldn't you know it, the doctor says it's a head gasket. So that's when I think I sent you this photo and we start pulling apart. So we had to change the head gasket starting at around, I think, 5pm I think we kind of grounded out and kept adding water and stuff till 4. And then we realized it was just a fundamental problem. We hadn't warped the heads or anything. But yeah, Jeff's. So basically, Jeff's sacrifice did not work.

B (15:49)

So did that car get repaired in time for the next day's race?

C (15:55)

Yes. And then it ran the entire next day at about, I think about 3pm it came in, Glucker drove it and he comes in, he goes, feels bouncy. All right, let's, you know, take a look. And we look under it and one of the rear left shock is hanging down from the top, had come off. So the owner of the car and myself spend like half an hour just like threading this bolt and the nut looks messed up and whatever, and we torque the shit out of it. We get it mounted back up with new hardware and it goes back out. And then I think about half an hour later, we get a call that it feels weird again. And that person and Ted, the Owner, he pulls in and we look at it again, and now half the shock is gone. So the bolt had backed out again because the.

B (16:43)

Yeah, yeah. And then the bottom half just fell out.

C (16:46)

Well, I think the hat, that bottom half caught on like a curb. He's like. I was like. I went over a curb and I heard a sound like, I bet you did. So we. So we had half a shot. So I think we didn't retire the car. Then we were just like, all right, it's just gonna be weird out there. So.

B (17:01)

Oh, man.

C (17:03)

I think it was described as being. Someone said, it's just unpredictable now, so you don't want to go too fast. So I. I was very lucky. I drove it first and it was good. And then everyone else had to drive it with these problems.

B (17:16)

Uh, oh, so you drove both. You drove. You got lucky in both stints. You got to have two real stints before real. The real fucking shit went down, huh?

C (17:24)

Yeah, I drove Ranchero. I. Same thing. I opened the race on Sunday. I did like two. 22 hour, 20 minute stint. Um, and. And then we. And we actually, we ended up getting third in class. So everyone drove long stints to just minimize our driver changes. And the Ranchero, they. They fix the problems from Thunder Hill. This truck, it is fast. It is so loud. I have so much tinnitus two days later, and it like, it sticks.

B (17:56)

Well, were you guys using like, earpiece comms?

C (18:00)

Yeah, I have. I have foam earpiece comms, but after this trip, I'm gonna buy the custom molded things because.

A (18:07)

Yeah, I was gonna say that's. Were you. Did you have anything?

C (18:10)

Well, I. I have the foam things that have the speaker in them, which I thought were pretty good, but I. My ears were ringing for like a full 40 hours more than they normally do. And I immediately got home and started looking up those. Those custom molded things. They're expensive, but this truck is like. It's like a dyno room in a mailbox. I mean, it's. It's a. It's a good, like high revving, ish, small block Ford, but it's a tin can truck. And I just didn't realize even with those things in, I drove for two hours straight and man, my head was like, messed up. So.

A (18:47)

Yeah, that's not great, but it was fun. Other than that, folks, today, support is coming in hot from car gurus. And look, buying a car is really important for a lot of people. It's the most important thing they'll ever buy now that nobody can ever afford a house again. But big purchases don't have to come with big headaches because Cargurus makes it simple to find the right car at the right price, providing everything up front, no surprises at the back end. That's the kind of thing you want to be saying in multiple parts of your life. But from deal ratings to real time price changes and complete vehicle history, your big deal should feel like the best deal. And that's why car gurus is here, dude. They send you alerts for any new listings and price drops on the cars you're looking at, so you get notified immediately. Now that's good if you're not looking for to buy a car today. If you you know what you want to pay, you know where to look. They'll tell you when the car shows up. You don't have to keep checking back then. When you're ready, Cargurus will connect you to dealerships you can trust. So the process feels clear, simple and stress free. Cargurus has the biggest selection out there with over 4 million listings. That's more than any other major online marketplace in the US So you can always find the best deal. Cargurus puts you in the driver's seat, literally and figuratively. With the tools, information and data driven deal ratings that let you shop your way, it's no wonder similar web estimated traffic data shows Cargurus is the number one most visited car shopping site. So buy or sell your next car today@cargurus.com that's cargurus.com to make sure sure your big deal is the best deal. C A R G U r u s cargurus.com also brought to you today by Quints it's fall coolers. Temps are rolling in. Some might say it's sweater weather, baby. And that's where I'm turning Quince for fall staples that last from cashmere to denim to boots, the quality holds up and the price blows me away. They sent me last time we talked last time you heard me, I said I was so excited for the 100% Mongolian cashmere sweater that was just starting at 60 bucks, right? I got the sweater and I'll tell you something, it is as soft as my Ralph Lauren sweater. It really is 100% Mongolian. I don't know that Mongolian necessarily means good, but this is some soft cashmere and it was very affordable. Quince is partnering directly with ethical factories to skip the middleman. So you get top tier fabrics and crafts craftsmanship half the price of similar brands. In the case of the sweater, I just Mentioned it was more like a quarter of the price. But that cashmere is a boom. You're going to be seeing me wear it all through the fall. I'll report back on the quality, but I bet you it will be up to my lifestyle. But I really love their linen shirts from back in the summer. They have survived into the fall in my closet. You can get this stuff too. Keep it classic and cool this fall with long lasting staples from quince. Go to quint.com tire for free shipping on your order. 365 day returns. That's quint.com tire free shipping and 365 day returns at quint.com tire back to the show.

C (22:10)

Dude, it was so fun. And. And then the rear tires like started getting hot and the air, you know, the air expands and the thing went from being lightly oversteery to oversteering everywhere. By the end of the day we had like a totally bald rear tire. And I think Tim, the owner, he finished the day and he's like, man, this thing, this thing does go through tires. And I was like, well, some of us might have been over driving the vehicle a little bit. Yeah, I wanted to beat the fastest guy on our team. He beat Jeff. And I wanted to get close to him. And I think I was just trying to figure out how to make this non abs tin can, you know, stick. And it was really hard to tell when you went from like threshold breaking to sliding. It was very hard to detect the lockup. So that was a little tough. But dude, it was so much fun. It's got a new steering box. Like it drove like a really fun, slightly taller Mustang and.

A (23:12)

Oh, it's cool.

C (23:13)

It was, it was fast. It was. I got some fun video of like passing two people at once, like splitting down between people on one. Straightaway, Tim, the owner was watching from the tower and I guess, I guess I went four wide with, you know, three other cars down the main street. And he said he's watching me. He goes, zach, make smart decisions. Make smart decisions. He's like 4 wide on the front straight. Oh, shit.

A (23:36)

Yeah.

C (23:37)

So, dude, it was a blast. And it feels like vintage racing in the present with that thing.

A (23:43)

Sure.

C (23:43)

You know, there's people out there in E36s and all manner of stuff. A couple of rolling chicanes, some new, some newbies out there. I don't want to name the car they're in, but when people are new and they follow the racing line exactly and they have no awareness of what's around them, try not to be that person. You are. You are in the way. Yeah. So it. It was an absolute.

A (24:08)

You're going to go slow. You really need to be in your mirrors and. And pointing people by or whatever. Putting yourself offline in places where there's room to do that, you know?

C (24:19)

Yeah. Well, the perfect example, there was an old, like a 60s Fiat there. And they stayed in the left side of the track the whole lap. They were out there all weekend. They knew their place and they were just. They're just turning laps out of the way. And they were predictable af. But this other car was like. Like following. Like someone had drawn them a map of the absolute apex line and they would refuse to deviate. And it caused some interesting moments for everybody. So.

A (24:46)

Yeah, that sucks.

C (24:48)

Yeah.

A (24:50)

Well, I'm glad that's fun, though. Cheap racing is very fun if your car works properly.

C (24:55)

Yeah. And I mean, the Ranchero had problems at Thunder Hill, but it worked all weekend. Flawless. We were in contention for second for a while and it was rad. That car is really fun.

A (25:06)

Cool. That's a good time. Nice. Cool. Well, that's a. That's a good weekend. I like that very much. And has Glucker since figured out what's wrong with his Montero or no?

C (25:17)

Well, I think he needs a new front main seal, but it's just like. It's just expensive, you know, they have to pull off his water pump. They got to pull out, basically. They got to pull off the front of the motor. I don't think they have to take the engine out maybe, but they have to take the grill off. I think you have to take the cam out.

A (25:32)

Okay.

C (25:33)

It is very.

A (25:33)

But it didn't. It didn't cause further notable damage, though.

C (25:39)

No, because it got totally everywhere, so. Yeah.

A (25:41)

All right, cool. Sweet. Well, I did the road and track experiences event. It's called Seaside to Sierra. We started in San Francisco. We went to Sonoma Raceway. Got a full day at Sonoma, some back roads out to Grass Valley, which is a very cute little town in Northern California. And then we. We ended in. In Tahoe, which is fabulous, the Ritz Carlton. And I drove the. The new Audi RS3 with performance pack. There's a couple photos of it on my Instagram in Kyalami green. Kyalami green, the RS3. This is such an interesting car because, like, when I drove it on the launch in Spain, I was like, this is awesome. I love it. And then I drove this green one here and I didn't love it so much. It has, unlike the European cars. It doesn't have the really good seats. It's got the basic seats, has the, the, this square steering wheel that I didn't like on the launch and that I like even less now. And I've found at Sonoma that when I tried to drive it beyond the limit, meaning like use the torque rear mode to like kind of slide it around and stuff it, it'll do it. It does do it, but it doesn't do it predictably. When I find, I find when you have cars that use technology to overcome physics like this is a, an all wheel drive car, but it's a front wheel drive based all wheel drive car which can never really behave like, like a rear wheel drive car or even like a Subaru with fifth with true, you know, symmetrical all wheel drive, it uses tech to send power to the rear. But because the motor is so boosted and because there's so many like software and sensors like telling torque to go all over the place, it doesn't do the same thing every time you do, you know, if I'm going around a course and I'm trying to slide this corner the same way, it doesn't respond the same way to the same inputs each time. And that was a little frustrating. Okay. And, and also I, I wasn't super stoked on the ride. I found it to be a little harsh. Having said that, at the end of the trip we then got it here to Thunder Hill. And in context of the other sub $100,000 offerings here at P. Cody at Thunderhill, which are the John Cooper Works Mini and the Volkswagen Golf R, in context of those cars, I liked it a lot better on this track. I also found that in the lower speed corners of Thunderhill west versus the higher speed corners of Sonoma, the torque rear mode and the slidy bits did happen a little more predictably. And so I'm starting to come back around to it, maybe a little more. And even after this big group test, I'm driving it to Monterey to play golf with my dad and then I'm driving it all the way home. So I'm driving like another thousand miles in this thing once this test is done. So by the time we're done, I'll have driven like 2500 miles in this thing, which is pretty nuts to think about. For one press car is the, the.

C (29:32)

Difference in, I guess it's slide behavior or rear end behavior. Do you think it's less predictable on the road because you're not as committed to whatever that moment is versus at the track? Like, am I misunderstanding?

A (29:44)

Well, first off, I was not trying to slide it on the road. I don't know. Yeah, I'm talking about at Sonoma Raceway versus at Thunderhill Raceway West. Folks, gotta take just one more break because True Work wants you to hear about their awesome clothes they just sent me. Fall is about fast changing weather. It can be hot, it can be cold, it can be windy, it can be wet sometimes if you're in the right part of the country, all in one day or shift. True Work is performance workwear built like it matters, because it does. I'm out here at performance car of the year right now, record these ads from a hotel in the middle of nowhere. And I am wearing the True Work they sent me because I was certain it was going to rain today at the track and I also thought it could be really hot. It turns out it was cold and windy and so I was still dressed properly in my True Work pants. It was awesome. Founded by a trade professional who was tired of heavy gear weighing them down, True Work set to make workwear that keeps pros comfortable, capable and ready for whatever the day throws at them. It's got advanced performance fabrics for lasting comfort, all day mobility and year round job site protection. And over 50,000 five star reviews from pros in every trade and every climate. And now one from auto journalism. But these pants they sent me, they're nice, they're light, but they help. They're, they're, but they feel strong. They got properly placed pockets. The belt loops are really, really strong looking. They fit perfect. And I can move at the racetrack. I really, really like it. You can get this look too. Upgrade your day with workwear built like it matters. Get 15% off your first order@truewerk.com with Code Tire. That's T R U-E-R K.com and Code Tire, that's right. Now back to the show. Sonoma is twice as long. It's over three miles long. It's got really big elevation and it's got really fast corners. Thunder Hill is just under two miles long and most of the corners where you would do a slide are slower than the ones at Sonoma. And so anyway, and the surface is different and there's less elevation and so I don't know, the, the, the, the, the track is just, it just behaves a little differently here than it did at the other place. And so I find that interesting ultimately. Like, I think this is a really nice car if you really need a car to do it all. Summer, winter, racetrack, Canyon, Daily Drive, road trip, get your family around. It really executes at a very high level. It's fast. The brakes are great. The tech is not too overwhelming. Although I hate the haptic buttons on the steering wheel. I hate the steering wheel, period. The square steering wheel and I. The buttons on it, just rip that out and find a Q8 steering wheel and you're, you're done. Thank you. Good night. That's about the perfect steering wheel, the Q8 or RS Q8 steering wheel. But for, you know, 75, $80,000, it is a lot of car. It's 180 mile an hour car. Yeah. And, and so it's. It, it does. And people love it a lot. The street people, people. A lot of thumbs up. People were digging it. So it has a, it does have a presence on the street. So, yeah, it's funny. Like my, as I keep driving it and doing more things with it, this car, my opinion on it is like changing. It's kind of why it's like, it's really important to do these like big group tests. It provides such like, important context to cars. I mean, I don't, I can't give away what, whatever, what. I don't know what the winner of performance car of the year is going to be. I have driven all the cars on the track now. Not everybody has. They're, they're still, they're still going. And I'm gonna go back and drive more in a little bit. But, but you know, when I, when you drive a car in isolation versus driving a car back to back with some of its competitors, you start to realize that maybe things that you thought about the car originally were not necessarily, not accurate, but, but without the context were not really complete thoughts. And so, you know, we have the Mustang GTD here, we have the Corvette ZR1 here, we have the new Lamborghini Temerario here. And we've got the John Cooper Works Mini, the Golf R, the RS3. We've got the AMG GT Pro. We've got the 911 GT3 with a stick, comfort seats and steel brakes, which is interesting. We're gonna have a couple.

C (35:06)

Yeah, it's like when we drive cars in isolation and it's kind of in a vacuum where the scale isn't present, I guess. So we can go, oh, the steering is great. Then you drive other cars and you go, oh, actually that steering is better because I was able to experience them back to back. So maybe what I thought was great is actually good. Right.

A (35:25)

I'll just give you one I spent a week and a half telling everybody how good the Mustang GTD takes Kerbin, how good the ride is in the track. I said it to you over and over, didn't I? Well, guess what? Doesn't take them like a ZR one does. Not even close. Wow. And doesn't mean it's bad. But what I thought was a beautiful riding car in isolation compared with some other stuff. Not actually. Not actually. And it doesn't mean slow, it doesn't mean that it doesn't. You know, it does, still does a lot of things super, super well. But yeah, I mean I drove, I drove like four really quick front engined cars yesterday and then I got in the GT3, you know and like I drove the GTD for no, excuse me. I got out of the Mercedes AMG and into the GT3 and the, the Mercedes, the GT Pro is much sharper than the last AMG GT. It has super light forged wheels, it has a retuned suspension, retuned braking system. Everything is much, much more focused to be a better driver's car. And it's, and those efforts are largely very successful, you know, and that car turns in really nicely for a heavy front engine car. Really does turn in great. And then you drive a GG3 and you go, oh no, actually, you know, I thought that was great turn in. But actually the GT3 is, is, you know.

C (37:10)

Right.

A (37:10)

And, and I said to you the other day, you know, and I actually wrote in my GTD review for Road and Track that the car is 4,400 pounds but does not feel it. You can't feel that it's that heavy. I'll tell you what, if you do about 12 laps in a GT3 and then you get in a GTD, it is every pound of £4,400. Does that mean it's not very fast or very capable? No, but my calibrator, you know, if I, I drove, I drove a Mustang dark horse to Chuck Walla in order to lap a gtd. So compared to a, to feeling a dark horse, it does not feel like it's much more heavy than a, than a regular Mustang, which it is because of the technology. They masks the weight of its, the weight gain of itself. But compared to an actually light car like, like a GT3, which I believe is under £3,300, it's, yeah, it's really obvious how heavy it is and how huge. It doesn't mean it's not awesome, but it is enormous. Yeah, it is enormous.

C (38:29)

I mean GT3 is not a small vehicle either. The GT3.

A (38:33)

No, but, but in this company, it did look small. The GTD part. The GT3 parked next to a ZR1 GTD. The AMG Pro, not necessarily the Huracan or the Temerario, which is a smaller car. But, but, but compared to some of those other ones, the GT3 does seem small. And, and they have it, it's white, but it has these. And dial graphics package on it that's actually like pretty slick looking. I'm kind of into it, so I'll just give you like. I, I don't know, you know, this is a group test that's decided by group voting and lap times. And, and I'm not driving the lap times. Mike Austin is sitting the lap times. But Jethro's not here this year. He's doing Top Gear. That's why Mike Austin is doing the lap times. But that means I'm doing the slides. So I, I have been elected Chief Drifter.

C (39:29)

Hell yeah.

A (39:30)

In absence of somebody from England.

C (39:35)

They'Re very good at that. Dude, that's rad. That's the dream. Yeah, that's my dream.

A (39:38)

At least that is actually. No, it is actually because, like, people read the lap times, they see the lap times, but they get to see me. Like, you know, the smoky smoke.

C (39:48)

Oh, yeah.

A (39:48)

We have the M5 Touring, which I forgot to mention earlier, so that's another one. We had it in la. Kind of hated it out here with a racetrack, kind of a different story. I mean, with a racetrack, that thing fucking hauls the mail proper. And I mean you, it's by far the best sliding car we have here. And because it has PSS5s and not like, like sticky ass, you know, fake slicks, it gets mega smoky. I'll, once we're done recording this, I'll post the clip on, on my Instagram. They just fucking got out tonight. It's not worth. Maybe I can actually pull it up now and just show it. Can I?

C (40:36)

Yeah. Hit the share.

A (40:38)

Does that work? Yeah. All right, we'll just, we'll try this. Allow to share. No, sorry, I'm bad at this. I'm bad at this. Share entire screen. Is that how this works? Boy, I, I don't know what I just did, but I don't.

C (41:03)

You just need to show a different window.

A (41:07)

All right, whatever. I, I, Okay, I'm gonna put it on Instagram by the time everyone else can see this. I'm sorry, I'm not, I, I can't be trusted with this technology. So anyway, it's A group test and we haven't driven the cars on the road yet, so. So I haven't even made my opinion yet of all the cars. I mean there's cars that can be great on the track and completely fall apart on the road, which is what we saw. I don't know if it was last year or the year. Last year I think with the dark horse Mustang, which was, it was so fun on the track and then it was really just beat everybody up on the road. So there was that. So that we're going to see what happens later. But I'll go through all the cars real quick and just give you my, my quick vibes. On the John Cooper Works Mini.

C (41:55)

They.

A (41:55)

Have fully, I think transitioned to this becoming a luxury car. I mean it's automatic only, it's soft, it has a glass roof, it has massage seats. What and it does not. Yeah. And it has no like real diff anything or in it. So, you know, as a small pseudo luxury car it is reasonably successful. But as a real sports car, I, I don't think, I don't think that's it. The Golf, the new Golf R which has what's called a Euro style package on it, which is a dumb name for an actually functional minus 80 pound lightweighting kit, slick top, cloth manual seats, better wheels and an Acro exhaust. And after driving the Mini, the Golf feels like a McLaren. I mean, yeah, I haven't wanted to recommend a Golf R to somebody in a long time, but I think this mark 8.5 with the euro style. I want to get one at home, but I was very impressed with it on the track. It offered a lot of what the RS3 offers for a much cheaper price. But point and, and actually has a better ride than the RS3 as well. Although it's clearly not as fast, but a really, a really tight package. And yeah, you can't get the manual with the Golf R anymore and that's a bummer because manuals are good, but Volkswagen's manual wasn't that good. I preferred this car with the, with the DSG or whatever they're calling their DCT now before anyway, we have just talked about the RS3, the M5, touring, so many modes, so much tech. I'm not particularly interested in it as a road car. I, we, we talked about it a lot before. It doesn't really do it for me on the road, but it's fast on the track. It, the rear wheel drive mode is so, it's so much power to the rear wheels when you, when I went out to start doing slidy things with it. You know, I DSC off. You know, you don't want to put it in sport plus because it makes it too much too sensitive on the throttle. So I put it in sport, put everything in the middle but then off. Right. And when you, you can, you can rotate it on the entry. It's got really good brakes. So you could shift the weight forward, rotate it on the entry when you're loaded up. But when I tell you, Zach, that in order to do a slide in this car, we're talking about dry tarmac, we're talking about good tires, you need to modulate, initiate and modulate with somewhere between 1 and 5% throttle. Anymore insta spin. Insta spin? Yeah. I mean it's you. If you want to, if you want to drift with more throttle than that, leave it in four wheel drive. You put in four wheel drive sport and you, if you want to do one of these, you can, you can absolutely get angle and get crossed up on it. But if you want big smoke, it's rear wheel drive, medium sensitivity and the lightest amount of throttle your right foot can manage and you can.

C (45:22)

Do you know what the wheel speed was at that point?

A (45:26)

Top of third gear. It's, it's. And it's all third gear. You're not in sec. If you try and do a slide in second gear, you're insta spin. It's all third gear. Because with the hybrid assist, the battery comes into play as well and it helps torque fill at the bottom. So you can just get it in the third. Yeah. Silly, silly, silly car. And once I figured out how little throttle it really took, it became quite rewarding. Temerario is the same. Temerario is a 5% throttle position in order to slide.

C (46:03)

I wonder if that's a unique challenge to hybrid assisted things because they're like. The hybrid system is trained to add a ton of torque down low and weight to help distract you while the turbos get going. So you're just at low, low throttle input. You're getting a ton of electric torque and that just makes it hard.

A (46:23)

It depends how. Like for instance Temerario which has a three motor hybrid system with a, with a V8 that revs to 10, which is awesome. Twin turbo V8, the revs to 10, but you're in the same situations. It's a second gear move in the Temerario because you actually do need to have the revs up higher. You can't boot it at 2500 RPM and have that big torque like you'd have in the M5. Peak torque. I don't know the number, but it's like 7000 area ish RPM. It's very high. So when you're running laps in the Temerario, the. I don't think the Revs go below 5 once. Wow. It's. Yeah, it. That car. That car is something. I mean, remember how awesome Revuelto was?

C (47:17)

Yeah.

A (47:18)

Take that same exact system, put it in a smaller car.

C (47:22)

That's fantastic.

A (47:23)

It's a monster. It's like 907 horsepower with the magic front end that comes from having two motors up there. It goes to 10. It sounds fabulous. I mean, it, It. It picks up, I think, where Ferrari left off in the V8 department. The exhaust mic on I put on. It sounds really, really good. It doesn't sound. There's room on the table for the aftermarket on the outside of the car. It's not super loud outside the car. Inside the car, it sounds great. That's a good color. That sort of blue bluish color. The one we have here is like an Irish green. And it rips. It's really nice. I will say that under breaking, this car rotates fabulously. Really, really great. And it has a very neutral balance at the mid corner. When you feed in throttle, unless you set it up for a slide, it will push a little bit, but that's actually, that's okay. I think you can use that, that push sometimes. And it does have. I think it looks very nice above the midpoint, but if you look at the front, I think spin to the front, Zach. So the. See this. In this photo or rendering or whatever, the entire lower mouth is just pretty much black here. In reality, it's a very gray piece of plastic with a lot of, like, sensors and stuff in it. And it's like, kind of full of things and busy. And this is a. This is a incredibly complimentary photo or rendering of the car that I don't think represents what the actual front end looks like.

C (49:25)

Well, it looks like the front end has a huge black rectangle, and then it's flanked by these, like, radar cruise control sensors.

A (49:31)

Right. Hang on. Look, I'm going to put this. Look, I'm gonna show you this. It's not ideal, but just up to the camera how this looks in real life. There, look.

C (49:45)

There you go.

A (49:46)

That. So see that?

C (49:47)

Yeah.

A (49:48)

That is not just an empty black thing. That's actually quite busy.

C (49:55)

Yeah, There's a lot of fins and vents and things.

A (49:57)

Yeah.

C (49:58)

I mean, It's a cleaner design than the Revolto, which that was. I mean, it's an Aventador Success successor. It's very aggressive. But this looks more in line with like the lamborghini version of a 296. And I think the front end of the lights are closer to that. So it's going to be more subtler, a little more tame. But if it still rips and that's perfect.

A (50:16)

It, it would not keep me from purchasing this car if I was in the market. It was, it was. It. This car is a, is a serious, serious piece of hardware. And I didn't really.

C (50:28)

The whole.

A (50:29)

That's the, the color of it in the green, which is just fantastic. Yeah, the, the sticker on this is $568,000.

C (50:40)

What?

A (50:41)

Yeah. This one has the lightweighting package, which is 73 grand. A bunch of carbon. The paint is 20K. Yeah. And I mean, and there's a bunch of nickel and d, you know, carbon, this, contrast stitch that, blah, blah, blah. Everything is four figures. Every option is four figures. It's. But, but I think between in. Look, I'm not saying it's like just this is silly money. This is money for people that are not us. You know, it doesn't. What's the difference if it's three or five? We can't afford it. You know what I mean? But you know what? They, When I, I saw the sticker and I went, ah. Like, I literally like yelped. And they were like, what? I was like, this is 568. And they're like, yes, well, bless you. I said, honestly, I was expecting maybe a four. You know, I think the Huracans, you know, started with a two. Most sold with a three. I figured this would be a four. Wow. So. But you know, they were like, well, you know, the increase in performance and then, you know, the inflation. And I go, yeah, okay, I, I hear you. But still, yikes.

C (51:57)

It's well that, you know, everything's getting more expensive, like beef prices. Everything is at like, you know, nearing all time highs or worse. But that creeps up. But we go from like car model to car model. So the jump. It's, it's funny that it's almost like more glaring to us in this job because you go, why has this gone up $200,000?

A (52:16)

Yeah, so it's, it's a, it's a big number and apparently they have a year and a half waiting list. So the. Do I know, you know, the, this, this rear view that you've Just pulled up is pretty exceptional, honestly. I mean you see so much of the rear tire when you're behind this car. You really do crazy.

C (52:38)

It seems like it would need mud flaps till, you know, in some states.

A (52:41)

Yeah.

C (52:41)

I mean I'm truly looking at the back and I think we are seeing more than 50% of the rear tire vertically. You are really? Yeah.

A (52:48)

You're seeing where it, where it goes beyond perpendicular and starts to curve into the top. You can see just that bit.

C (52:56)

That's wild.

A (52:57)

It's really crazy. Yeah. But. And I've only had, you know, I, I just, I did maybe 10 laps in the Temerario. I haven't. I'm going to drive it some more and drive it on the street. I'm very excited. I'm excited to get one in LA to try as well. But me, what a car. I mean it's, it's the revuelto but smaller which is like awesome.

C (53:18)

Yeah, that's a wild thing.

A (53:20)

Yeah.

C (53:21)

Cool.

A (53:21)

So that's great. GTD I've talked about a lot, the zr, the amg I did just talk about a little bit before. It's. It is much more driver focused. The new AMG Pro. I can't wait to try it on the street. I think it's more of a trackable street car than a streetable track car. There's still some stuff about it. I don't love it. It does not like being driven beyond the limit. It gets all kinds of unhappy if you try and slide. Is very difficult to turn off. Traction control all the way and even then I'm not really sure that it actually is all the way off. Having said, that makes a great sound. The seats are great, it looks beautiful. Mercedes has done a hell of a job starting with that SL we drove two years ago and then to end up where they are now. And I think it's a. Even though it's very expensive, it's like 170, something,000 dollars. I think you are much more than halfway to a Bentley for less than half the price of a Bentley gt. I don't love the touchscreen stuff. I never have. But, but driving dynamics. As long as you don't plan to over drive the car for fun, then it's great. It stops great, it turns in great. It's got a great amount of grip. It takes bumps really well. The interior holds you nice and snug without being like a real bucket seat. Was a lot of great things about that car.

C (55:03)

Was the Bentley speed better at the limit than the amg?

A (55:07)

Yeah.

C (55:08)

Wow.

A (55:08)

Yeah, it is. It was the Bentleys. I mean, the Bentley drifts awesome. That car does really big slides very effortlessly in a way that was shocking and incredibly pleasing. This won't do it. This, this car has, is. No one has considered that somebody might want to drive this beyond the limit and they're probably right.

C (55:32)

Yeah. I mean they're probably, it's nobody except journalists or, you know, people making videos.

A (55:36)

Yeah. Yeah. I'm not saying that it can't be slid. Chris Harris could probably figure out how, maybe Jethro could figure out how, but it, it certainly didn't want to cooperate with me. But as long as you're not intentionally trying to do that. It was quite a Lovely car, the GT3. You know, we've reviewed the new GT3. It's, it's just, you just, you drive it in all this other stuff. It's got less than half the power of the ZR1, you know, it's got just over half the power of both the Lambo and the gtd. It's, it's an updated version of a car that's now five years old. The engine goes back to 2014, although it's been refined and improved and has made essentially the same power output since 2014 with an incremental increase in weight since then. You know, and it's, it's, it isn't a quote, fancy car. This car had manual, you know, cloth seats. It's a stick shift. It's got them. It had the basic climate control stuff. I mean, by the standards of these other cars with their tri motor hybrid stuff. And this is a very basic car. The only naturally aspirated engine in our test, the only stick shift car in our test. And it is just the most joyous thing to use. I mean it's, it's, it'll. I haven't seen the lap times of anything, so I actually don't know how fast it went. But my bet is it will over perform on the racetrack in terms of a lap time versus a 500 horsepower output compared to an eight, nine or thousand horsepower car. It'll over perform. This track, which is short, will favor this type of car. On a longer track, the difference would be more pronounced. But when I lapped everything yesterday, I drove all the cars and we finally finished at sunset. It was time to drive back to the hotel and I fuck, sneaky, sneaky. When nobody was looking, went out and put my shit in the GT3 and grabbed the key and put it in my fucking pocket so nobody else could take It, I drove everything all day and at the end of the thing it's like I need, I need to drive in that to the hotel to unwind my mind and make me feel good about the world. And you, you just, you drive it and you go like, you know, all these other companies, they're, they're even Porsche, they're chasing the next power level, the next this, you know, Porsche has to innovate just to stay the same. The engine makes the same power output as last year's version, but it's much, much cleaner. The emissions are much, much cleaner than last year. And it makes the same power output as last year, but a little less torque. But they shorten the gear ratios so that it actually feels quicker. So they're doing all this, they're, they're, they're running to stay in place, you know, but what ends up happening is as, as the other cars get more digital, more software defined, this becomes such a wonderful thing to, to have, you know, as a sort of permanence, you know. Yeah, this car won't age like a computer will.

C (59:10)

Right. They're lucky that this car can kind of exist on its own, you know. Yes, they offer other cars, but it's a very unique offering where like the M5, that platform gets shared with the lower 5 series and they want them to be fast. And I think that kind of forces these manufacturers to make all hybrid turbo changes and also, well, it seems like it's probably easier to go, okay, well if we need more power next year than this year, what do we do? Add turbos, then what do we do next? The year after that we add more boost and you can just keep adding more power to sell the car to the person who needs the newest fastest thing. And Porsche knows that there's a strong enough market out there that will buy the car that feels very similar because that's what we want. In a sequel sea of cars that are constantly changing and drifting away from a lot of the fundamentals of driving joy. Porsche goes, yeah, we'll keep selling that thing.

A (60:05)

Makes sense, you know, and it's just, you know, from the turn in to the shifter feel, to the firmness of the brake pedal, to the, the balance and the way it take, I mean it just, it just does everything right. There's nothing about this car that it doesn't do right. You know, it may not have torque cuz it doesn't have turbos and it may not be as fast around the track cuz it only has six gears and not eight. And you have to shift them yourself and blah blah, blah. And I do not care one bit. It's, it is the kind of car where you buy one today and you drive it for 20 years and you, you don't have the urge to upgrade to the next thing. It's a real, real treat to get to lap one of those around a track. And so, so you know, it's the GT3. It's the. You drive it and you go, this is, I know now I know why everybody wants one. No one can get one, you know, and, and, and it's, it's, it's the thing that pretty much everyone who loves sports cars says they're looking for.

C (61:13)

Yeah, like ex.

A (61:14)

Pretty much. And then, yeah, and then of course the, the ZR one which I was probably more excited to try this week than anything else. I haven't driven on the street yet, ironically now after driving it. And I don't want to take away anything from any of the hard working people who design and engineer this car, but it's one of those cars I could have written the review of without driving. Doesn't mean it's incredibly exciting, it's incredibly fast. But it's as Z06 was 2458. ZR1 is 2488. It is that change. There's more grip, more downforce. Am I capable of, of, of pushing the Z06 to its absolute limit to the point where the incremental difference is feelable? I am not. I am not. And I think most of the chassis hardware is the same between two cars. I mean there's obviously a lot of cooling and stuff for the, for the turbo motors and there's some more scoops and things. But the, the steering feel, the braking feel, all of those things are very, very, very similar between the Z06 and the ZR1, at least as far as I don't have a Z06 right here to compare to. I have to go to the last one I drove and, and to be honest, I, I'm, I'm sure that oh, when we had Z06 at performance car of the year, it was not at this track. So I don't think we have a direct Z06 time to compare to at this track. Although we do have an E. Ray time to compare to. I don't know if that's makes a difference but, but the point being is on this two mile Thunderhill west track, there isn't a whole lot of difference in pace or experience between 670 and 1080 horsepower. I mean, yes, it pulls. It's a. It's an animal that pulls. And it's a fabulous engine, and it's a fabulous thing to use on a racetrack, no matter what you're doing. I mean, grip slip. It does real nice. Very sticky. Fabulous front end, fabulous ride and handling and body control. Does everything well. Too well. You're like. It's one of those. Like, you're. You're selling this to people, you know, like, that's crazy. But at the same time, I'm not sure that on anything less than an enormous racetrack, I could really go much quicker because you're just. You're at the end of the straight so fast.

C (64:03)

Right, right, right, right. And.

A (64:05)

And with. In almost every mode, in every gear up to fourth, it pulls timing. If you go flat, like, it's just the. The PTM is amazing, and it doesn't, like, kill the driving experience, but, like, you don't have full power in that car if there is any kind of system on until, like, fourth gear.

C (64:27)

Right. So if the PTM is pulling all this power, it's almost like is PTM reducing your power down to Z06 levels to keep you on the track, at which point, like you said, a lot of the turns and short straightaways, you're actually going the same as Z06.

A (64:43)

It's right.

C (64:43)

Until you get those big straights that you would really get to make up the difference.

A (64:46)

Sure. Over 100 miles an hour, I'm sure the difference is more pronounced. There's. There's only one place on this circuit where even a fast car can go over 100 miles an hour. And it's only like 120 or 125. It's not. It's not a particularly long track. Like, sorry, it just isn't. So at Road America. Yeah. More difference than there, for sure. At this track, not really much difference, which is. It's okay. It's still a very exciting car. It still sounds great, goes fast, and has great dynamics all around, just like the Z06 did. And this one that we're driving has all the go fast on it and the carbon wheels, and so it's over 200,000. But just like the. When we drove the Z06, you know, you get the one without all the big wings and without the carbon wheels as a road car, and you're under 200k with a hell of a car. Really a hell of a car. So it's, you know, as it says it is. It is in the long line of Corvettes that Over perform for their price tag.

C (66:00)

Yeah. That's so much power though. I mean that's.

A (66:03)

It is, it's. It's an insane amount of power. Yeah, it's. It's wild and it's probably, it's probably too much for most people, but. Yeah, but.

C (66:16)

Well you know, it's horsepower with two wheel drive, so.

A (66:19)

Yeah, yeah. And. But because it's a Chevy, it also, you could also just use it as a car. You know you can, you can, you can just. It can just be. I drove it around like just around here and we're gonna drive it on the road. But like other than not having a trunk because it now has a pass through up front like a GT3RS. Other than that you still have the back trunk, which I guess is, is good. GT3RS doesn't have that. You could just use it as a car, I mean everyday, proper everyday car. And it will because it has to meet that same durability cycle of like the trucks and stuff. You know it all. There's no such thing as a Chevy that isn't a Chevy. So you just use it as a car which is kind of, kind of awesome. You know the top comes off on all of them.

C (67:07)

It offers a lot of crazy psychotic performance value and value in general. It's like company radar cruise top off. Like. Yeah, it's. It's all these features. Does it, does it look like a Ferrari or have the prestige or stuff? No, obviously, but it's gives you. No, but it does look good.

A (67:23)

Yeah, it does. I think this C8 body style, the more aggressive, not necessarily with the wing but the wider body work and all that stuff. Even the E Ray, it does make it look much better than the earlier narrow body cars. It fixes a lot.

C (67:37)

I agree. Yeah, yeah.

A (67:40)

I know we have a lot of questions from people, but I only have about five minutes before I have to go. Go back to work. So should we do one or two or should we save them for next time? Is there anything that's particularly timely for what we've talked about today? If it's general stuff, I'm happy to save it for the next show because I don't want to burn my track time. This is so much driving this week. This is a crazy amount of driving and I love driving and I love sports cars. But like man, I have been every single night putting CBD cream on my elbows just to keep. To keep the tendonitis at bay. Anything.

C (68:36)

There's nothing about peacody or anything like that, so.

A (68:42)

Okay, well in that case, they can probably wait. We appreciate you patrons very much, but I only had a limited time to do this gig today. I have more tires to destroy at Thunderhill West. And we will be back with your regularly scheduled smoking tire programming once we are back in the studio next week. And I certainly appreciate everyone's patience. Please, if you haven't yet, check out the Zinger 21C video, which was actually. Zach, did you know we were on trending? We made it on to trending with that.

C (69:16)

We did.

A (69:17)

We did. We made it briefly. Briefly onto trending.

C (69:20)

So I can't remember the last time that happened, so.

A (69:22)

And not a lot. It's been a very long time. So that one. That one's doing well. Go check it out. It's crazy. We have more videos coming in the can as well. But I really appreciate everyone's patience and once I get back to the office, I will be much, much less stressed, I assure you. Things have been getting done around here. Thank you, everybody. We love you. See you later. Bye.

C (69:49)

Stop.