Jonny Lieberman on Rivian R2, Luce, and 1000HP cars

Summary

The Smoking Tire Podcast – June 16, 2026

Guest: Jonny Lieberman
Hosts: Matt Farah, Zack Klapman
Episode Theme:
A lively, in-depth roundtable with Jonny Lieberman discussing the latest in high-performance cars—especially the Rivian R2, outrageous 1,000+ hp exotica, and polarizing new luxury/lifestyle vehicles. Spirited debates ensue about the merits and faults of the hottest Ferraris, the rise of ultra-high-power street cars, electric SUV innovation, and just how far manufacturers are willing to go for attention—or shareholder cash.

---

Episode Overview

This episode is a passionate, funny, and sometimes contentious conversation between longtime friends and automotive journalists. Jonny Lieberman joins Farah and Klapman to dissect the Rivian R2, drive impressions of wild multi-million-dollar hypercars, and the changing meaning of “performance” in today’s car landscape. They roast the controversial Ferrari Luce, debate the future (and trustworthiness) of Tesla, and examine everything from mobility trends to minivans coming back into style.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Supercar Segment: Ferrari SF90, 296, and GTD Face-Off

[01:15 – 06:29]

• The group debates the relative merits of Ferrari’s SF90 versus the newer 296 GTB, including driving engagement and depreciation.
• Matt Farah:

  "By Ferrari standards, [the SF90 is] a very boring version of fast. For a $900,000 Ferrari... it doesn't objectively suck, but it sucks for what I expect." (02:34)

• Jonny Lieberman and Zack argue the 296 is the new benchmark for fun and value, with both agreeing that market depreciation doesn't fully dictate opinion but can reflect it.
• On design, they spar over whether the SF90 and 296 are too similar visually for the price gap.
• Both praise the 296 as the "fantastic" Ferrari to actually drive on a racetrack or good canyon road.

F1 & Racing Chat

[06:29 – 09:02]

• Quick banter about Ferrari’s recent F1 victory and trivia about podiums and driver reactions.
• Matt: "Monaco is always boring," emphasizing that some races are only worthwhile if you attend in person.

GT3 Touring & Pricing Shock

[10:07 – 10:59]

• Jonny brings up Porsche’s GT3 Touring, lamenting the $100,000 price creep in just six years.
• Matt: "It is so much money." (10:59)

Escalating Hypercar Horsepower & Comparison Testing

[11:00 – 13:04, 17:42 – 22:55]

• Detailed discussion of latest ultra-fast cars:
  • 605k Aston Martin Valour (“Temerario”), Corvette ZR1, Mustang GTD.
  • Jonny: “On the road, [the Temerario] was so much better than the ZR1... but when you have the right road, the ZR1 is transcendent.”
• Lieberman and Farah agree on the importance of back-to-back comparison testing; what seems brilliant solo can fade next to competitors.
• Debates over what makes the GTD special: “Just so good. I will defend that one.” (Lieberman, 18:41)
• All agree: new cars over 1,000 hp are fatiguing and often “too much” for real-world roads.

The Center-Seat Experience & Enjoyment vs. Excess

[22:43 – 26:23]

• Jonny discusses challenges driving the Czinger hypercars—especially the awkwardness of the center seat for road driving.
• Danger vs. enjoyment debate: at a certain speed, enjoyment doesn’t scale. Some cars surpass the threshold where most people can safely enjoy them.
• Farah: “There’s a certain speed beyond which most people’s brains just can’t drive on the street... it’s just diminishing returns.” (22:40)

Noise, Comfort, and the Role of Engineering

[31:09 – 34:43]

• They riff about how “violence” and harshness in modern hypercars detract from livability.
• Farah: “Take 400 horsepower out of it and it would be beautiful to drive.”
• The essence: at a certain extreme, enthusiasts yearn for a touring-oriented, less aggressive version, not just bigger numbers.

Rivian R2 Enthusiasm & Analysis

[35:38 – 41:19]

• Jonny details his drive of the Rivian R2, calling it, “Terrific. They nailed it.”
  • Key specs: ~656 hp dual-motor, 330-mile range, $59k base, “rides really well” and “much, much better back seat.”
  • Performance: quieter and more luxurious than R1, with rear-drive bias and improved road and off-road manners.
• All three hosts agree the R2 will have mass appeal and is notably advanced for its price range.

New Luxury Vans: Mercedes VLE/VLS and the Minivan Revival

[42:43 – 47:14]

• Jonny reports from Spain on new Mercedes luxury van concepts—emphasizing their rebirth as US-market luxury people-movers.
• Details: modular interiors, captain’s chairs, massive usable space, aim to rival Suburban limousines.
• Matt: "I am pro Maybach minivan."
• All reflect on the comeback of van-based platforms for luxury transport.

Design Sins: The Ferrari Luce and “Considered” Influence

[83:03 – 104:17]

• Audience Qs spark a roast of Ferrari’s new Luce—called a “swing and a miss,” and “it just looks like a Toyota Crown…"
• On influencer “car reviews”: media training and press releases give cover to design choices (“They all said, 'The design is very considered'.” — Lieberman, 101:49)
• Anecdote: Ian Callum on the McLaren Senna—"It didn't have to look that way. You chose to make it look that way." (103:37)

---

The Tesla Detour: FSD, Trust, and Absurd Claims

[55:47 – 72:26]

• Jonny shares a “blown away” experience with Tesla’s FSD—the car stopped for six skunks, impressing even a past skeptic.
• Farah pushes back, noting anecdote ≠ data: “You are conflating ADAS with full self-driving. Your experience is just one—data is data.” (59:09)
• Long, funny, but skeptical exchange about FSD, trust in Tesla’s communications, the lack of transparency, and outrageously late/dubious Roadster “levitation” claims.
• Farah: “If I wanted to pump my Tesla stock, I’d lie to Jonny Lieberman and have him talk about it on a podcast.” (67:13)
• They bet a dollar on whether the Roadster’s “levitation tech” ever appears in reality.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Matt (re: SF90):
  "By Ferrari standards, [the SF90 is] a very boring version of fast. For a $900,000 Ferrari, it doesn't objectively suck, but it sucks for what I expect." (02:34)
• Jonny (on GTD):
  “That’s the best thing I’ve driven in a long time.” (18:41)
• Matt (hypercar excess):
  “There’s a certain speed beyond which most people’s brains just can’t drive on the street... it’s just diminishing returns.” (22:40)
• Farah (Tesla FSD):
  “You are conflating ADAS with full self-driving. Your experience is just one—data is data.” (59:09)
• Jonny (on Luce):
  “The Luce is just such a miss. Just a swing and a miss.” (84:16)
• Lieberman (on influencer reviews):
  “Every influencer said, ‘The exterior design is very considered.’ That was the talking point they gave them.” (101:49)
• Ian Callum (as relayed by Jonny):
  “It didn’t have to look that way. You chose to make it look that way.” (Senna, 103:37)

---

Q&A Highlights

• EV persuasion:
  • Experience trumps facts for skeptics. “Some people will not be convinced… until gas hits $4.50/gallon or fast chargers are everywhere.” (86:24)
• Sports cars for big/tall people:
  • 911s remain the best option. “My friend is 6'7’’ and fits in a 991.”
• Feature most making modern cars unrepairable:
  • Custom diagnostic tools, software locks, carbon fiber, and aluminum body panels.

---

Genesis Magma Design Speculation

[104:18 – 108:16]

• High praise for the just-debuted Genesis Magma coupe concept.
• Speculation about whether it rides on Corvette underpinnings; regardless, they love the design and hope it arrives in production form.

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Tone & Style

• Tone: Candid, unfiltered, humorous, sometimes sarcastic, always enthusiast-focused.
• Language: Industry-savvy, inside-baseball references, mix of technical detail and personal storytelling.

---

Summary Table

| Timestamp | Topic | Notable Quote/Moment | |---|---|---| | 01:15-06:29 | Ferrari SF90 vs. 296 | “SF90... very boring version of fast” (Farah) | | 11:04-12:44 | 605k Temerario & ZR1 | “On the road... the Temerario was so much better than the ZR1...” | | 17:42-18:41 | GTD Praise | “That car is amazing. I will defend that one.” (Lieberman) | | 22:43-26:23 | Speed vs. Enjoyment | “Beyond which most people’s brains just can’t drive on the street...” | | 35:38-41:19 | Rivian R2 Review | “Terrific. They nailed it.” | | 55:47-72:26 | Tesla FSD & Roadster Claims | “If I wanted to pump my Tesla stock, I’d lie to Jonny Lieberman...” | | 83:03-104:17 | Ferrari Luce & “Considered” design | “It didn’t have to look that way. You chose to make it look that way.” (Callum) |

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Closing Segment

• They answer listener questions on everything from 911 Turbo S “fame” deficit to how to truly test-drive expensive cars (Answer: rent them or go to track-day companies), and the pitfalls of mixing hobby/business in the car world.
• All hosts reflect on the challenges of being a modern car journalist or content creator in the YouTube era.
• Final note: they’d much rather see honest critique and technical depth than influencer fluff. And, at every level, “drive it before you decide.”

---

For Listeners Who Missed It

• The Rivian R2 may be the next sweet spot in the EV market—don't miss the group’s full breakdown (~35:38–41:19).
• Supercars are more powerful, more expensive, and frequently, less enjoyable than ever—comparison testing is crucial.
• Tesla’s promises are (still) mostly vaporware. Don’t buy the hype, but the FSD demo story is a must-hear for the debate on tech and trust (~55:47–72:26).
• The Ferrari Luce? Sorry, not even at half-price. And “considered” doesn’t mean “good.”
• New Mercedes luxury vans and the Genesis Magma have the panel—unironically—excited about minivans and bold design once again.

---

Next up:
Jonny’s full drive review of the Mercedes VLE drops June 20th.
TST heads to Detroit; live show sold out.
Stay tuned—a new era of performance, utility, and design is dawning, for better and for weirder.

Transcript

[Matt Farah]

What up, everyone? Welcome to the Smoking Tire podcast. Today's episode is, as always, brought to you by off the record. You know what off the record's about? Saving your backside from unnecessary disciplinary action and points against your license if you get pulled over for doing a little fun in your car. Don't plead guilty. Get off the record. Go to offtherecord.comtst for 10% off all legal services through off the record. They are nationwide. They'll connect you with a qualified attorney in the jurisdiction where you got pulled over. They'll fight that ticket. They'll get those points off your record. That's offtherecord.comTST. one more time offtherecord.comTst. all right, folks, on this episode of the program, Johnny Lieberman is here in studio. So we get to fight about stuff. We fight about the gtd. We fight about Tesla full self driving and we fight about the Ferrari Luche. No, we don't. Really. We both like that one. No, we don't. I'm just kidding. We both hate it. It's the Smoking Tire podcast. Let's go on it that the Sterling Moss, the lack of the windshield and the ridiculousness therein.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yes. Makes up for everything.

[Matt Farah]

It does actually change the game.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yes, it does.

[Matt Farah]

It does.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I really like that.

[Matt Farah]

I agree with you.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Okay.

[Matt Farah]

Slr bad. Sterling Moss, good.

[Johnny Lieberman]

You said the S SF90 is great. I will try.

[Matt Farah]

The SF90 is not good.

[Zach]

It's great. Yeah, it's great car, right?

[Matt Farah]

No, it's great car.

[Zach]

At what?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Going fast.

[Zach]

Okay, so a lot of other cars.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, but it goes. It goes a little faster.

[Matt Farah]

It's not that great at going that fast.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's really fast.

[Matt Farah]

I know, but it's.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's.

[Matt Farah]

It's by. It's a. It's. By Ferrari standards, it's a very boring version of fast.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, it's faster than other Ferraris.

[Matt Farah]

Price 296, which is just as fast.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Not quite as fast. And it's lighter. It's not quite as fast.

[Matt Farah]

A tenth in the quarter is not different, bro.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I'm taking the two nine, six. I'm taking the tuna. I'm just. I like the tuna.

[Matt Farah]

I don't know, dude, look, the depreciation.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I like depreciation.

[Matt Farah]

Don't lie, habibi. Depreciation appreciation.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Can like. Because the 296 is also depreciating.

[Matt Farah]

That's better. Not like an SF90.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, but it's still depreciating. That's better than all the.

[Zach]

I mean, yeah, the markets. The market shouldn't determine your opinion.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, no.

[Matt Farah]

But the SF90 depreciated when everything else was still appreciating. And I'm not saying the market determines my opinion. I'm just saying the market agrees with my opinion. Zach. And I said that thing sucked before there was a resale market. Yeah, straight up.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, I like that. I'm confused. Like, it's got a nice V8 that's, like, lower than your butt.

[Matt Farah]

It doesn't objectively suck, but it sucks for what I expect. For a $900,000 Ferrari, it was like a 700,000. The one we drove was over nine.

[Zach]

What?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, we drove the same one. The Assetto Farino. Yeah, yeah. The white one.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach]

740 plus tax.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, yeah. Yes. Yeah, 700. I think it's great.

[Zach]

I just think. I don't think it sounded that good. I think the steering was kind of weird. The front end, it didn't have, like, the magic electric front end steering like an NSX does. And NSX costs a seventh the price.

[Johnny Lieberman]

50 times better than an NS.

[Matt Farah]

Not the steering, though.

[Zach]

You have electric motors up front. Then the steering should be, yes, much better. Be much better.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yes.

[Zach]

And then when I got out of it, I go. I look and I go, this looks so much like a 296. So now I'm paying a million dollars.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But it came out before the 296 existed.

[Matt Farah]

Well, they shot themselves in the foot

[Johnny Lieberman]

by making the claw later remove the goal post after the fact.

[Matt Farah]

No, no, I'm not. I'm not moving the goalpost. He didn't say that when it came out because the other car hadn't come out yet.

[Johnny Lieberman]

True.

[Matt Farah]

But once the other car came out, he went, wow, that looks the same for half the price. And he continued that opinion to today.

[Johnny Lieberman]

You're being very defensive of him. But, no, it doesn't look like the 296.

[Matt Farah]

It does. An untrained eye would easily confuse those

[Johnny Lieberman]

finally trained eye, and I can tell those two apart.

[Zach]

Hi.

[Matt Farah]

So Johnny Lieberman is here. We're not drinking.

[Johnny Lieberman]

We could be. I have whiskey in a bag. I don't want to drink. I have whiskey in a bag. I did bring you presents, and I'm

[Matt Farah]

trying to not drink.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, I'm really not drinking much these days.

[Matt Farah]

No, I'm drinking a lot these days, which is what I'm trying to do today, because these road and track trips, I drink a lot.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I. I drank last night and at home, which I haven't done in for months. And I feel horrible.

[Matt Farah]

But yeah, that'll happen.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I brought you guys presents I think will upset you, but I don't want them.

[Zach]

Are you giving us your leftovers?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yes.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, it's swag. Oh, I'm not taking your snapback. Get out of here with that garbage.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I'm not even a flex fit. Snapbacks are better.

[Matt Farah]

Come on. When you don't have hair on the

[Johnny Lieberman]

back of your head. Luscious.

[Matt Farah]

When I wear a snapback, I get a little round igloo.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I hate all the hats except for snapbacks. In fact, I insisted we get these but. Well, there you go.

[Matt Farah]

Well, thanks for nothing.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I was putting my hat on.

[Zach]

The local homeless will be very please.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I was putting my hat on this morning and I'm like, I have two extras of these.

[Matt Farah]

Perfect. Let's. Oh, the side to side. Here's the SF90.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yes.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Okay. Nice.

[Matt Farah]

There it is.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, it's different. It's different.

[Zach]

It is.

[Matt Farah]

But like.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Matt Farah]

But like blinking. You're blinking. You miss it.

[Zach]

Really close.

[Matt Farah]

You know, it's pretty. Yeah.

[Zach]

And I think they have a good looking profile. I think, I mean I think they're

[Johnny Lieberman]

both very good looking cars.

[Matt Farah]

But they.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's no luche.

[Zach]

We're not gonna make this mistake. Nobody confused it as a 90.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's right.

[Zach]

Nobody mistake.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's right.

[Zach]

Look very different.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's right.

[Matt Farah]

And one of the world's all time over corrections. That's right.

[Johnny Lieberman]

The 488 and the F8 look too similar. So yeah. Those two I have a hard time with.

[Zach]

I do too.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Those do look my trained eye.

[Matt Farah]

That's agreed. But that. But that's. But they weren't making them at the same time. They made one and weren't they.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I think there was about four months.

[Matt Farah]

That's true. We got these parts. What are we going to do with these bumpers? Right, right.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But that's a 488.

[Matt Farah]

But. But we got to put them on.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. I think we can agree the 296 is fantastic. Yes, it is.

[Matt Farah]

Okay.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

There you go.

[Matt Farah]

Is to drive.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, to drive.

[Zach]

To drive. Change the volume.

[Johnny Lieberman]

To drive.

[Matt Farah]

Not to like use as a car, but to drive.

[Zach]

Just to drive.

[Johnny Lieberman]

To drive on a racetrack.

[Matt Farah]

Real fast.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Really good car.

[Matt Farah]

Yes. It's a lovely thing to have on a track. Or a zigzaggy.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And those are depreciating. So buy them.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, I mean for sure.

[Johnny Lieberman]

For sure.

[Zach]

They are. Shout out to Ferrari. Also they got their first win in F1. I know you don't care Maybe you don't care either.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, I watched it.

[Zach]

That was very sad.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I don't care.

[Matt Farah]

But good for him.

[Zach]

Took him two years to develop that car.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But also first all British podium since 1968, which is kind of crazy. And that was cool. I watched.

[Zach]

What's funny is. Okay, I'm with you. And it was interesting stats. That's what F1 does. Like they pull in all these stats. Like every sport does that. But they said it to, you know, Norris, George and Lewis and those guys just went, huh? Like they, they were so non plussed.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Lewis couldn't hear him. It was Rossberg was asking the questions. And then. Yeah, Russell. Nothing could have mattered less to anyone on earth.

[Zach]

Well, he, he was so mad. But he hit it as well as he does. Yeah, but he's like, oh, I'm just really happy for Lewis.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Just so glad to see him back up here again. My old teammate, you're like, yeah, the guy like upstaged you there. And now your other teammate's kicking your ass. Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And passed him.

[Matt Farah]

Better in this other car than.

[Zach]

Yeah. His teammate.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. I mean his car came. He not only passed him, but his car fell apart and he was still staying ahead of him. But then, then it broke.

[Zach]

It broke.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But yeah, I love when the splitter came off and he was still ahead of him.

[Zach]

I was like, that kid is a wonderkin.

[Johnny Lieberman]

He's great. Yeah, he's 19.

[Zach]

Sorry, Matt. There's a new F1.

[Matt Farah]

I know.

[Zach]

19.

[Matt Farah]

I watched the Monaco GP actually. Why would you watch?

[Johnny Lieberman]

That was a really bad one.

[Matt Farah]

Was the one that was on while I was on the elliptical and needed a thing to watch.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's a really.

[Matt Farah]

Though I have literally anything better to do than then watch racing on television, I will do it. In that particular case, I did not.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But that race was maybe the most boring race in several years.

[Zach]

Every year.

[Matt Farah]

Monaco is always boring.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But this was. This was. I think there was one pass.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

One. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Indy 500 had 70 changes. Fucking pretty dope, actually.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, it was pretty sick. A lot of things. A lot of things to follow up and see.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I'm very jealous. That's a hell of a race you went to.

[Matt Farah]

Monaco's is a. It's just a cool race. Like if you're there.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Of course, if you're on a yacht, everything's cool.

[Matt Farah]

It's the same as the ice race. It's cool if you're there and if you're not there, it's like, ew, Boozer.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I went to the one in Austria. I was. It was a good time.

[Zach]

That's a much bigger track. I've heard it's right.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's a bigger track. And there was like 5,000 people. And they allowed.

[Matt Farah]

And they allow skijoring and wheel to wheel, right? Yeah, They're.

[Zach]

They.

[Matt Farah]

They tell me they're going to have both of those next year in Montana. They couldn't get insurance to do it

[Johnny Lieberman]

this year, I was going to say, because there's no laws in Montana that are preventing anything.

[Matt Farah]

There is insurance.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

These guys actually kind of care about insurance. Like, when they were doing the Willow Springs thing, I had the best idea ever for a promotional event.

[Johnny Lieberman]

You told me I wasn't driving. I was gonna drive it. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

The donor. The spec donor. Yeah. Spec Singer donor car.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

That was.

[Zach]

I remember this.

[Matt Farah]

I was like, we need a heavy hitter. News getting race.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

And Sam was 100% on board. And the lawyers were like, oh, fucking no. The lawyers didn't say. No.

[Johnny Lieberman]

What?

[Matt Farah]

The lawyers said we'd essentially have to fully cage all the cars.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, yeah.

[Matt Farah]

They. They.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's a lot of money.

[Matt Farah]

Y. They were like, we're not going to blow 300 grand on caging these cars for a silly exhibition race. And I was like, you guys are the kings of spending money.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Aren't you all billionaires.

[Matt Farah]

Are you with billionaires?

[Zach]

Like, six grand to have installed me

[Matt Farah]

called the Tiptronic Cup. That's what it is.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Yes. It's going to be maybe one day. Maybe one day.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's a, you know, evergreen idea of.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, yeah. They'll never get old until they run out of donor cars and.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Right.

[Zach]

That's.

[Matt Farah]

That's what's been going on. Driving anything good recently?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Well, let's see. I drove here in a GT3 touring.

[Matt Farah]

Those are good.

[Johnny Lieberman]

The Lichtbau, the lightweight.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, they're good.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. $38,000 option to save 48 pounds, which I like. It's kind of like I was reading a story I wrote when the pandemic started. So it would be like, you know, April of 2020. And it was about, I think, just like a targa. But I happened to mention that I was like, oh, targas are really expensive. For a little bit less money, you GT3 for it was like 143 or $146,000. Yeah. The base price now of the GT3 touring is like 240. So it's gone up like a hundo in six years. This one parked out front is 296. And it's just like they're great and nothing else is like them. And I get all that. But man, it's a lot of money. It's just a lot of money.

[Matt Farah]

It is so much money.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But I also had a $605,000 Temerario the other day.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, I get that in a couple weeks.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's. Oh, it's. It's really good time.

[Matt Farah]

I drove it in performance car of the year. It is a good time.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. Because I drove it in Portugal on a track and you know, when you do a track only launch and there's no street component, I guess it was good. I'm trying to figure out the track, you know. But we ended up in the Crest and like, it might be the fastest car ever made. It's ridiculous.

[Matt Farah]

When I. We had it for performance car of the year and it was last year and you know, we had the ZR1 as well. We had the GTD.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. GTD is so good.

[Matt Farah]

The GTD is good. It's really good. I love gtd. Unless you happen to have a ZR one handy, in which cases GTD is suddenly a lot less interesting.

[Johnny Lieberman]

We had an X, which is.

[Matt Farah]

I haven't tried the X yet, but based on my E Ray experience, which is pretty extensive, I think the rear drive car is the one to have.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Remember how you guys were bashing the SF90 for not having good electric front steering?

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Corvette one motor is way worse than two motors.

[Matt Farah]

So I suspected it would be the same as the E Ray and it basically is. So the rear drive is the one to have ye. But on the road, our first day of road driving the Temerario was so much better than the ZR1 on the road.

[Johnny Lieberman]

On the road? Yes.

[Matt Farah]

On the road. That I was like, oh my God, I'm voting for Temerario number one for sure. Yeah. And then the second day, we got the perfect road on the perfect day, the perfect light, and it was, Matt, you should have one more go in this. And I got an empty. And I went, holy hell. This is like seeing God.

[Johnny Lieberman]

This is the ZR1.

[Matt Farah]

The ZR1 rear drive, when you have a road that approximates the Crest to yourself is a transcendent type experience.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's fantastic. I mean, that's the crazy thing you say. You driven anything good lately? It's like, well, yeah, drove a bunch of zingers. I drove a couple different 01 X's, which despite kind of you're adding understeer for no real reason, is still kind of a great car.

[Matt Farah]

It's Real fast.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. And then. And it's just a nice car.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, you finally tried it, the 21C?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Well, no, I drove it a year ago, but I tried the wing car.

[Matt Farah]

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[Johnny Lieberman]

It is a different, you know, I gotta. So like, you know, we went to a track and like yeah, zinger Uberallis on the racetrack, but like on the road, it was funny. I'm driving, you know, we're on 73 outside of Palm Springs, Right. Going up.

[Matt Farah]

Great road, Good road.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And I'm pushing in the Zinger. I'm pushing hard and I look in my rear view and there's this guy, Eric Tingwall, works for Motor Trend and he's in the gtd and he's just sitting on my bumper and I'm like doing everything I can. He's just on my bumper and I'm like, well, you know, I'm old and fat and if I've had a good run just going downhill, you know, blah, blah, blah, then we switch and he can't even keep the Zinger in the lane. And I'm like one handed GTD up Mount Palomar. Just like GTD is just so good. Like. Yeah. On a track.

[Matt Farah]

Which zinger was it?

[Johnny Lieberman]

The wing car? The green wing.

[Matt Farah]

The green one.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Look, 12ft is not a lot of space, of width for that car to operate in. And GTD just grips and grip perfect. And I just. I'm. I'm Mr. GTD. Okay. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's like the best thing I've driven in a long time.

[Zach]

Well, Harris said he'd take one over a GT3RS if it was a street and track car. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

I mean, well, that's a really low bar. The GT3RS is a real garbage street car.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, I like it on the street.

[Zach]

That's how bad it is.

[Matt Farah]

That's a terribly low bar.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Hang on. I like.

[Matt Farah]

That's like me saying I'd rather have constipation than diarrhea.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Is it?

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. These. That's a bad street car. Yes, it is. Beat me up. It's exhausting. It's huge. And has no trunk.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It has no trunk. But you can make the ride. Yes, you can.

[Matt Farah]

Everything's soft. It's.

[Zach]

I fiddled.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, it's not.

[Zach]

It's actually.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Everything's soft. The springs are softer than a GT3.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, that's not good either. But it's.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But it's not shit. It's not diarrhea or constipation. It's.

[Matt Farah]

These are not great street cars.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I mean, when you say street, you mean driving around town or in the canyons? Driving around town.

[Zach]

Street goes from one.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But the canyons, it was fine.

[Matt Farah]

Street is all of that.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Anyway, you're wrong about that.

[Matt Farah]

For $440,000, it better be way better than fine. The competition is a McLaren 750 at that price point for the GTD. Yeah. It better be way better than fine.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, no, no, no. I'm talking about the GT3Rs. Oh, the GTD.

[Matt Farah]

Way better than street.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, the GTD is fantastic. On the street. I love. I'm. I'm shocked. I don't know what I was thinking. I just thought it was like a warmed up GT500, you know, same engine. Oh, no, it's not that. It's so.

[Matt Farah]

No, it's a multimatic car.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, yeah. But like a really good multimatic car.

[Matt Farah]

But it's just huge.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, it's big.

[Matt Farah]

It's so huge.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's gigantic. And it's heavy, but you would never know it.

[Matt Farah]

I mean, that's a lie. You know it when you drive a car right after it that's a thousand pounds lighter.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, I drove a car right after this £1,000 lighter. And again, it was a Zinger, which was.

[Matt Farah]

If you drive a regular car that's £1,000 lighter, right after words like a ZR1 or a Temerario, both of which feel like miatas. After.

[Johnny Lieberman]

A Temerario weighs 4200 pounds. The GTD weighs 4400 pounds. So it's 200 pounds.

[Matt Farah]

Excuse me. On the Temerario.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And a ZR1 is 39. 39. And the ZR1X is 41. I mean, it's not like it's porkier.

[Zach]

It's mid engine, front engine, especially with huge front tires. Gtd.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, but again, the GTD like, rocks. I mean, like, that car is amazing. I. I will defend that one.

[Matt Farah]

I liked it very much when I drove it by itself, and it fell way out of favor when I drove it back to back with 10 other cars. It immediately showed the importance of a comparison test to me.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I drove it in a comparison test with a lot of other cars, and it was like, like head and shoulders.

[Zach]

Just above was part of what made the Zinger difficult on. On these canyon roads. Like the fact that it is so powerful and crazy that you feel a little bit more restraint.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Honestly, you know what?

[Zach]

It was back driving the F26 from my normal pace. Cause I was like, this seems like if I get it a little bit

[Matt Farah]

wrong, F26 will kill you. Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Zach]

So I don't know.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, I think with. Honestly, with the Zinger on canyon roads on one lane, you're basically stuck in one lane. That center seat. While it seems like such a brilliant idea to, like, young kids watching YouTube videos, like everything you've learned about how to drive Fast on a, on a two lane road with a double yellow kind of goes out the window because it's like, okay, I'm coming up on a right hander. I want to break and I want to get my wheel right on that yellow line. Be as far to the left as I can to go right, you know, cook the apex.

[Matt Farah]

This doesn't happen to me at all. And then I drive left hand drive and right hand drive cars all the time and this is not a thing.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And then, but then you're doing that and you're like, oh yeah, it's like it's not every single time, but it's like you're three feet over the line. You know, it's like, oh shit, I'm in the center seater. You know, Never.

[Zach]

That's getting used to like where your natural shoulder feels like it should be.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, that was part of it. But also like it's just, it's just a big powerful fucking thing that doesn't want to be confined to a 12 foot wide lane. It wants to be on a 40 foot wide track.

[Matt Farah]

I find that there's a certain speed beyond which your, your most people's brains just can't drive on the street. And there are several cars that are past that. Sure. And it's just diminishing returns again in

[Johnny Lieberman]

terms of like time, let's say if you lap times on the street. But in terms of enjoyment, I mean these cars can be very, very enjoyable. The only one that I'm, that he just mentioned, Zach just mentioned that I think is like really is that F26. That thing is just diabolical. It's like, like it's great.

[Matt Farah]

Peter, that, that's too much and he should just stop.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, he's not stopping. He's making a quicker one.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, it's not good. It's just, it's too much.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, that car was, the orange car

[Matt Farah]

was, was at the edge of crazy beyond which I don't think it's smart to continue.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And they went way past that.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, way past that. Yeah, that silver car's hairy as shit.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, but it's exhausting. It was very tiring. But, but you know, you work with it for like an hour and it's like, okay, now I can, I can go flat and you know, I get it. But I mean it's like I was talking to Bruce Canopa about it and like we're talking about not in qualifying trim, but like nine, you know, like naturally aspirated. 917s. Kind of the same power the weight ratio, because we were getting, like, wheel spin in fourth gear, like, over 70 miles an hour all day. And it's like. Doesn't have nannies. And it's. Yeah, it's like. It's a crazy car.

[Zach]

Thousand at the crank, maybe more.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And it has no, you know, real traction control. Like, it says that the racing, like,

[Johnny Lieberman]

Bosch traction control it has in first and second. I think it cuts spark, but it

[Matt Farah]

has a torque limiter more so than traction control. It's not, like, stability control.

[Zach]

It's racing abs. Not.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I think. I think Peter was saying it cuts spark in, like, first and second, but third, it makes full power.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, no, it accelerates harder in third than it does in second.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

And just as hard in fourth as

[Johnny Lieberman]

it does in third. It's crazy.

[Matt Farah]

I. The number that I saw at the top of fifth was really wild.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I saw one at the top of. I think I was the top of fourth, and it was 160. But you didn't see it because the

[Matt Farah]

kick is completely blocked on a 993.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Your palm blocks, like, from top over to your right. And so I saw where the needle was, and I was like, oh, wow.

[Matt Farah]

And then it comes back after, like.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But then when I finally slowed down and moved my hand, I'm like, holy shit.

[Matt Farah]

It's terrifying. But I said to him, like, dude, please stop now. How about make one that I want to spend all day in? Like, can you make a comfortable one that is, like, a good balance of power that isn't just, like, a psycho thing?

[Zach]

I.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Again, after, like, an hour. It took me a while, but I was like, okay, I really like this thing. And what was also kooky pants about it was he showed up and he brought a GT4RS, which. What's the problem with the GT4RS? Too loud. Right. And he did something to the exhaust. It was even louder. And he put double wishbones on the front.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, I know. He did a double wishbone thing.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And then. So I'm driving that down the hill, and I'm in, like, third gear at 9,000 RPM, which is, you know, 97 miles an hour, let's say. And I'm bored, and the car's too quiet. It's just like after driving that F26. Yeah, it's like. Like, you know, there's. There's no, you know, okay, screw the heroin. I need heroin all.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, it's the end heroin.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. It's just. It's so much.

[Matt Farah]

I just needed I slept for like the rest of the day. Oh, we drove it in the morning and after I went home, I parked it and I just like went to bed. Hannah was like, what's wrong with you? I was like, oh, you've never seen someone hate a car more than Hannah? Hated going to coffee in that car.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, I can.

[Matt Farah]

Only my wife and a GT. So stupid. Where does this cost? $12?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, no, I remember when I met my wife, I took her. Wasn't nice. Was a regular gtr. I did like a. What do you think? She goes, it's loud and bumpy.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, yeah, that's about right.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But I mean, I like that. F26.

[Matt Farah]

But I will say, guys, one more break because support is coming in from Vin bidders. But let's face it, buying a car is fun. But then selling a car stinks. Whether it's Facebook, Marketplace, bat, the forums, Craigslist, what, whatever you do, you're giving up some combination of money, time and privacy. Selling to a dealer is by far the easiest option. It's immediate, it's clean, and it's easy. They handle all the paperwork and logistics while you cash the check. But the real challenge is finding a dealer who offers all the convenience, but also the right price. VinBidders is here to help you find that one dealer who really wants your car and is willing to pay for it. They've curated a network of high end independent and franchise dealers around the country who regularly buy enthusiasts cars remotely. Vin Bidders offers stronger results than other channels, but with a fraction of the effort. Their dealer network buys everything from GT350s to Carrera GTs. And here's how they do it. You just submit your car in five minutes. You submit the VIN miles condition, eight recent photos and your desired reserve. When the listing is approved, they send a service to your home or office to photograph the car and prepare an independent condition report. You don't drive it anywhere or answer any unnecessary questions. Your auction is live for 24 hours because that's all that dealers need to make a strong binding offer. There's no publicly listed vin, no comments and no drama. Your info is only shared with the winning dealer. You can go from submitting your car to a confirmed sale in under one week with Vin Bidders. And you only pay $149 if the car sells. Now, Smoking Tire fans get 100 bucks off the listing price for promo code TIRE and by visiting vinbidders.com tire Again, 100 bucks off your listing price with promo code T. When you go to vinbidders.com tire. Okay, just run this because I'm going to read the copy that was provided to me. This is the ad. Guys, what do women want and need? I don't know, but when the vibe is right, a good consensual dick appointment never hurt. Be her rock with Bluechew. That's the provided open. A good consensual dick appointment. That is the wildest copy I've ever been handed. That's so crazy. They're sponsoring the podcast and sponsoring your bedroom performance. And with their new arousal boosting formula, you're getting turned on mentally and hard, physically, bricked in the brain and bricked in the body. They provided me that bluechew is better sex than a tablet. They combine four ingredients into one powerful solution. Two ingredients get you hard physically and two support arousal and desire in the brain. It works fast and it lasts. Guys, have a complete experience in the bedroom with Bluechew Gold. There's a reason Bluechew is the number one brand for better sex. Experience it [e-mail] and we've got a special deer for our listeners right now. When you get two months of BlueChew Gold, you get the third free with promo code tire. Promo code tire at Bluechew. You'll also receive an additional 10% off and free overnight shipping on your first order. Go to bluechew.com and use code tire for more details and important safety information. We thank Bluechew for sponsoring the pod and the bedroom. Fucking hell. That's crazy. Back to the show.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But I will say I happen to drive a bunch of cars over 1,000 horsepower. The week I drove that, like six different cars over 1,000. And they were all dull by comparison. Comparison? They were all just like, whatever, thousand. Just a number. This thing was like, Jesus, agro.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, it's aggro. But it comes with a lot of those, like, things that, like cars back in the day with a thousand horsepower had, you know, like you had to

[Johnny Lieberman]

live with, like, I didn't drive off the road or anything.

[Matt Farah]

It's no off. No, no. It's. You like anything else, you can use less throttle. It's not like undriveable, but even like

[Johnny Lieberman]

in crazy throttle, you know, once you learn, like, okay, it's not gonna roll

[Matt Farah]

into it and, you know, it won't do what things that it's not told to do. Yeah, but the violence of it at full throttle in fourth gear is a lot. You need to have a narrow focus and be ready for what's coming.

[Zach]

I Think it requires a lot more effort to go the speed of X through a canyon than other cars. Even those cars that have 900 horsepower,

[Johnny Lieberman]

which talk to kids on the Internet, that's all they want is a hard car to drive and, you know, blah, blah, blah. I just really enjoy it.

[Matt Farah]

No, it is. It's just like, I. I think you could probably put 100 pounds of sound deadening into it.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It has sound deadening 100 pounds more

[Matt Farah]

and take 400 horsepower out of it, and it would be beautiful to drive. And I'd want to actually use it as a car instead of, like, want to take it for a fucking drive and then take a nap.

[Zach]

Well, it's because some of the noise comes from. I mean, there may be sound deadening underneath the bare carbon. That's everywhere, but on top of it, it's bare carbon. So the sound that comes in the window or I asked Peter around and bounces off of the many, many hard surfaces in the interior.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Sure. But we were standing there, Peter came with, and I was like, man, just put some sound deadening in it. And he looks at me, he's like, there is. It has a lot of sound deadening. I'm like, it does.

[Matt Farah]

Like, they're saying it weighs, like, 2600 pounds or something, right?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Well, it's. Yeah, they say 26, 28, 29.

[Matt Farah]

What if it was 32? Would that be the worst? And

[Zach]

it would be. So.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, with a thousand horsepower.

[Zach]

He kept.

[Johnny Lieberman]

He's like. He's like, put it in comfort mode, and I want you to experience that. I'm like, it's exactly as loud.

[Matt Farah]

No.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, exactly.

[Matt Farah]

It's actually, like, comfort's the wrong word to his point. Like, the throttle mapping and the. The setting of the shocks in comfort mode is, like, good. Like, those are actually fine. It's just loud. It's easy to drive at low speeds. Like, it's not like you're stalling it. Like, the clutch is pretty fine, but you know that. So much gossip. Goddamn noise.

[Johnny Lieberman]

The noise is wild.

[Matt Farah]

So much noise.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But, like, the handling was really good. The tires work really well. The brakes are incredible.

[Matt Farah]

Like, but it's. Everything about. It's a little heavy, you know, it's light. Light car, heavy controls.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, sure.

[Matt Farah]

Heavy shift is crazy. It's all a little heavy. So, like, if we dial down the power and the craziness a little bit, like, I don't need one that pulls two GS. I need one that I. I want to drive for a weekend. Like, can you build me that In a way.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Built. I don't say builds currently, but he built that like this. He's making 26 and they're 1.6 million a pop. Like, it's not really going to.

[Matt Farah]

Like, they've never done a car that wasn't super aggressive. I want to know if they can build a car that's not super aggressive speed with no heat. What are you.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Hang on, hang on. Yeah. Yeah. I think the press car had no heat.

[Zach]

No heat. The press car had no heat. It had the least amount of power.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It was a little heavier.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But it wasn't, you know, it wasn't that carbon buckets.

[Matt Farah]

Like, they were.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I like those seats.

[Matt Farah]

I like those.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Bullshit.

[Matt Farah]

A bullshitter, you guys.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, no, it's not.

[Zach]

It's like saying the wingless dragon was the least dangerous.

[Matt Farah]

And also.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And also. And also the.

[Zach]

The.

[Johnny Lieberman]

The. Remember the green coupe? Yeah. And we both drove it and we're like. I remember this because we.

[Zach]

We.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I think we talked about on the show, but like, we. Both of us were like, dude, Peter, this is too much. You have to stop letting race car drivers tune the suspension. And then he changed it and I drove it after that change. And it was. It was really nice. That was a really nice.

[Matt Farah]

That's not what mean, like, make it like a really nice, like, regular car. Like, like if like not all carbon everywhere and like make a touring is what I mean.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's what I mean with like. I mean, that's what the coupe was.

[Matt Farah]

It was naturally aspirated, still exhausting. It was still so loud in there. It's not as loud as this new one, but the new one. Steering and very heavy inputs.

[Zach]

I mean, engineering, in my opinion, is a form of art, especially with cars. I'm sure we all agree. So is this just the kind of painting that Peter and Gump want to make?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yes.

[Zach]

And they go, look, if you want to go down the street and get a 500 horsepower NA. Something with leather, you can. Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Singers right there. They'll say that, right?

[Zach]

Yeah, they have a longer waiting list

[Johnny Lieberman]

apart, but they'll sell you one.

[Matt Farah]

They will.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, they will.

[Matt Farah]

I would. My money would get the. The Singer Turbo for sure.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Never driven one.

[Matt Farah]

Delightful.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But I would, I would, I would.

[Matt Farah]

The most perfect balance.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. Yeah. I again, I have a hard time believing there's anything better than that mule that got wrecked.

[Zach]

That.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That thing was concert Turbo mule.

[Matt Farah]

That was cool because it was. It was not just fast. It was a state of mind of, this is just for fun. And it's not Some perfect thing.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It was like apocalypse back and it had. It had the wrong seat and it was totally wrong body panels. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. You could eat off it and lean on it and, you know, park it anywhere and nobody gave a. It was great.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. And then other, other. To actually answer your question, I drove the R2 reviewing R2 too. Oh yeah?

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's terrific. They nailed it.

[Zach]

It's really good.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's just really, really good. Yeah, it's like, you know, what, what's a. What's a Rivian? You know, so it's like a little bit more luxurious than, you know, other cars in its price range. Drives better than it has any right to. Like, who wants a family SUV that can rip up a canyon road? It does. And then pretty damn good off road. So does it.

[Matt Farah]

Because it has a conventional suspension, not the regular fearsome struts.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. No.

[Matt Farah]

So does it just ride? Just sort of like car then?

[Johnny Lieberman]

It rides really well. It rides. It's got, it's got, you know, active dampers. And so this, the one they launched is the performance, I think it's called. So it's like 656 horsepower, 609 pound feet of torque. Active dampers. They will make one called the standard, which will have one motor in the back, by the way, by default, this is rear drive. It clutches in the front motor where the R1 by default is front drive and clutches in the rear motor. So this just kind of naturally handles better than that. Plus it's £2,000 lighter, smaller car. Much, much better backseat. Huge, crazy sized, oversized backseat in this thing. Yeah, it's really good. 330 miles of range. If you get the off road tires, it drops to 310. Whereas with the R1 it was, I forget the second gen, but first gen was 330 on street tires, 275 on off road tires. They're 20 inch off road tires, 21 inch street tires and all in 59,000. That's like destination and everything.

[Matt Farah]

I mean, it looks amazing. Appealing.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, it's in it. But it's like if you're on the street tires, those are the street tires in that picture right now. It's so quiet. It's kind of like, like you ever drove like a Phantom and it's like, like eerie. I hear my heartbeat. I don't like hearing my heartbeat.

[Matt Farah]

It's kind of like quiet. Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And so.

[Matt Farah]

Well, the R1 has motor and wine.

[Johnny Lieberman]

R1 is every noise there is. It's just a noisy truck. Yeah. Where this is not that at all. It's. It's pretty quick and then it hits 70 and it turns into a rocket ship. They like the way they wound the motors like because it's not really for towing or heavy duty off the motors aren't torque focused, they're horsepower focused. It does like £4,400. You can tow your Miata but it. Oh, that's an R1 that won the Rebelle rally. But yeah, it's a rocket ship from 70 on up. The opposite of most EVs where they kind of.

[Matt Farah]

It's not a two speed gearbox, right.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's a different motor. This is the. Instead of the Enduro motor, it's a rewinding of it called the Maximus motor. Somehow they pulled. So when they went.

[Matt Farah]

This R2 is a dual motor, not a tri or a quad motor.

[Johnny Lieberman]

This one is for now they didn't say. But there will be a tri motor. There won't be a quad, there will be a tri motor. It'll be one of their rad products. 850 horsepower and then they're gonna have the single rear motor and that'll be like 12 grand cheaper for the stripper non performance and you lose like two of the six USB C ports. You don't get a roll down rear window. You know, they just found a way like.

[Matt Farah]

But like, but like that'll be the one actually the single motor, long range, that'll be the one.

[Zach]

Works just fine.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, yeah. I don't have to be the one but it'll probably be. I didn't drive it.

[Matt Farah]

It'll probably be good in la. Nobody needs all wheel drive here.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Speak for yourself. But, but like again for 59, like that's a good price. That's for, for what you're getting, you know. And again, remember when 656 horsepower and 609 pound feet of torque was like that's a hell of a turbo S. I mean.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, but those days are long.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I know.

[Matt Farah]

I'm just saying I don't mean shit anymore.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Who cares? Sadly I like power. I'm still.

[Matt Farah]

That doesn't mean nothing though. It's not like an indication of the car being good. No, there's plenty of power, but this

[Johnny Lieberman]

car has a lot of power.

[Matt Farah]

It's not an indication of like good engineering. It's not really an indication of good anything. It's just a big fucking number because you put. You get an E motor that makes big power.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Sure. But this is, this is great engineering.

[Matt Farah]

Plus a lot of Rivian isn't good. I'm just saying.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I know. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Like who gives a about power anymore? Everything has power.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I still like powerful cars. Slow cars are slow. But this one's real good.

[Matt Farah]

Every. Everything is so much power. All electric cars are so much power.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Not all, but a lot. Yes. There's still some slow pokes out there.

[Matt Farah]

Dude, I've had my Taycan for like 18 months. I think I've hit the floorboard four times in it and it's the slowest one they sell.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Come on. Well I, I mean it's like four.

[Matt Farah]

It's like over 400 horsepower. It's the slowest one they've got. I'm driving around la. How much fucking power?

[Johnny Lieberman]

I mean again, I had my rivian 4 years and I floor it constantly. It's fun, you know.

[Zach]

The new Leaf has 214 horsepower.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. Let's see. Not all electric cars are quick.

[Zach]

I'm surprised.

[Matt Farah]

I bet you that Leaf is quick.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I'm sure.

[Matt Farah]

I bet you that Leaf feels quick.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Quick enough.

[Matt Farah]

I bet you that Leaf feels quick as. Dude.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I mean look, instant torque is instant torque. But anyways they did a terrific job. I was, I. I don't know, not that I was really had any doubts but you know, you want to drive something before you have an opinion about it and God damn it's really good.

[Zach]

Does it ride better than the R1s? Because this wheelbase is shorter than the R1s which rides much.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Well okay, let me qualify that. It rides way better than the first gen R1s. They switch the rear everything for the second gen R1s and yeah, it's a longer wheelbase and I would say that ride is similar. The R1s might be a little creamier because of air suspension but the handling of this thing smokes. The R1 it the rear end doesn't step out.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Cuz the S was a cut wheelbase and without changing any of the steering. So it drove like A Sport Quattro 2nd gen. This was designed comprehensively for this wheelbase.

[Johnny Lieberman]

This is kooky how well this thing I was.

[Matt Farah]

They might gladiator like so if they turned this then into a pickup truck the other way they would Jeep gladiator it where the steering becomes way too slow. It will go the other way with it.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And then RJ was there, there and the CEO and we couldn't get a straight answer out of him. Like we're like are you gonna do a truck like Maverick's pretty popular. The four things come in and they're like, you know, they said what was their line like, well, there will be other form factors, but we're not saying what. And I'm like, I'm like a two door. You're doing a two door suv, you know, in a van.

[Matt Farah]

Like they could do. If they did a, if they did a single cab pickup stripper version of this, they could undercut Slate like instantly again.

[Zach]

I, yeah, they under. I mean Slate's so cheap but.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Well, is Slate actually. Have they announced the price yet? They still haven't announced.

[Zach]

We have like another week for like 20 grand. But no, no, I think June 24th

[Johnny Lieberman]

they're going to say it's what the actual price is. It's going to be like 27.999.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And that's for the baby battery. Yeah. I keep asking, I'm like, well, how much for the big battery? Because like I don't want 140 miles of range or over 200, but anyhow. So that was good. What else?

[Matt Farah]

You shouldn't buy one of those anyway.

[Johnny Lieberman]

The Slate. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Bezos is not here to solve this problem.

[Johnny Lieberman]

He's not really in. It's just like one of his investment companies was sort of halfway involved.

[Matt Farah]

We do not need to support him as little as possible. He doesn't need to get into our world.

[Zach]

He's already rent all of the city.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's fair. Yeah, that's important. I don't think he support this. I don't think I can talk about. I also drove the Mercedes vle. I went to Spain.

[Matt Farah]

That stands for very large esophagus. Look at that fucking mouth.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, that's a big fish.

[Zach]

Faraday future.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's a big fish.

[Matt Farah]

Is that a digital grill? No, scree.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It looks like a screen. It's got painted black squares on it because it's just like radar sensors. But this is coming to America. I'm trying to think what I can say about it. It's coming to America. It is a 6 to 8 passenger luxury transport porter. You can make the seats flip around and face each other. You can have eight, like two rows of benches for an eight passenger. You could have four captain's chairs for a six passenger. It's all electric. Actually. You'd like it. It's real slow, makes no power. That's what I was telling the guys. Like if you're going to really bring it to the us by slow I meant it's probably slow. I didn't actually. Can't actually give a driving impression. But it's like, it's like 400 horsepower or something.

[Matt Farah]

Well, if you're carrying eight people. 400 horsepower. May or may not be that much.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's a different Carrying one, two people. The all wheel drive version, I'm giving a driver. There's an all wheel drive version and there's a front wheel drive version and. Yeah, and then they're going to have a VLS and they're going to have. I would Google this one, the Maybach vls, which is rad.

[Matt Farah]

I am, I am pro Maybach minivan.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I'm pro Mybok, everybody, at this point.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, I, we just, I just had the lucid gravity, which is a.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Which is a minivan.

[Matt Farah]

It's a minivan.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

So I think, I think minivan's coming back into favor. I need to see this grill in person, though. That back seat.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Look at that.

[Matt Farah]

They're really gonna make that back seat like that. That's dope.

[Zach]

But look, those chairs are fire.

[Matt Farah]

Dude. What is there a. Oh, it's a screen.

[Zach]

So you don't see the driver in front of you, right? Yeah, you just see screen.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. But I thought for a second that was an actual, like terrarium of plants in there.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That would be sick. Fish tanks.

[Zach]

Chairs.

[Matt Farah]

The chairs are fire.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Those chairs belong in the back seat of an Espada owned by Nicholas Cage.

[Zach]

I mean, they're also very like Citroen sm.

[Matt Farah]

Yes.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Zach]

Chairs.

[Matt Farah]

This whole van. Yeah, that's kind of Citroeny.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's it.

[Matt Farah]

If the interior is really going to be that, that's fine.

[Johnny Lieberman]

For the Maybach, I believe that's the case.

[Matt Farah]

That's dope.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yes.

[Matt Farah]

So pro minivan. This is good.

[Zach]

Are they trying to come in and compete with like, suburban livery vehicles?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yes, they. They think they've identified, fight a new market. And they're not calling it mini, but they have some. What are they calling it? They're calling it limousine.

[Zach]

Well, when I was in South Korea, there were a lot of cars that had had the roofs cut and like the tall roof installed.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And it's because they were converting them to livery cars. And it's a much obviously, as we

[Matt Farah]

all know, like our conversion vans here,

[Zach]

that's way more comfortable to sit in something like that. So a sprinter, but smaller and looks nicer.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And the back seat, not only can you get into it and it's. It just the rear air suspension, instead of being like this, is like this. And so with the battery in the floor, there's no hump up for the suspension, so it's just flat. There's no wheel intrusion into the Rear passenger. So it's just as spacious after they give us the numbers. Like, you know, an Escalade with all the seats down has, like, I'm making this up.

[Zach]

But, like, whatever.

[Johnny Lieberman]

They said, like, 75 liters of space. This has 150.

[Matt Farah]

Sure.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's just, like, so spacious.

[Matt Farah]

The van is obviously the optimum space for luxury traffic transport.

[Johnny Lieberman]

The most brilliant thing. The most brilliant thing was when you take the seats out, they have wheels on the bottom, so you can. Because they're super luxury. Everything pops out with, you know, folding tray tables with wheels. So you put them on the ground

[Matt Farah]

and you roll them out of the

[Johnny Lieberman]

way, which is really smart.

[Matt Farah]

Can you also just chill in it on the ground as a chair?

[Johnny Lieberman]

You know, here's the problem. Here's the problem was they didn't show us the seat coming out, so I don't know.

[Matt Farah]

So we have to take their word for it.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I don't know. But. Yeah, but. But it's okay.

[Matt Farah]

It's like, they're probably so heavy. It needs to come with, like, a crane. Remember how the old SLS came with that, like, roof mount?

[Johnny Lieberman]

That was.

[Matt Farah]

You picked one of those up?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, I had 300 paintings. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

So you got the crane for your roof. Like, this has to come with a gantry to take the seats out.

[Johnny Lieberman]

There might be a way to power them out now that I think. No, there's one version.

[Zach]

This.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I, of course, took a picture of the one on the Monoblock because they're dope. Yeah. They make an AMG Sportline version that had red seatbelts and different wheels, and then they make, like, I don't know, another one. But some of them, like, red seat belts. Red seat belts. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

That's great.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And red stitching. But, like, some of them, like, you know, you pull a thing and you slide the seats on the tracks. Some had powered tracks. So this one had these insane captain's chairs that were powered.

[Matt Farah]

So that's what you want is, like. You want the configurator where it's like, you know, conference room, bedtime, and it just goes, like. Just does a whole dance back there.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Well, but again, if you pull the rear seat, you could literally, like, power the front captain's chairs all the way to the back, and then, I don't know, shoot craps or whatever in the middle. Dude.

[Matt Farah]

My delica. I mean, has the swirling captain's chair. So you can have this. Them face each other. And then Hannah and I have a table.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

That goes in there. This is 1991, dude.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I'm not saying it's new. No.

[Matt Farah]

Obviously this is way doper, but, like, it's really nice to have that during packaging pandemic, we would get takeout and have a date night in the van.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I remember. I remember. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this is. This is. Be interesting. I'll give my driving review at a later date.

[Matt Farah]

I liked the ID Buzz a lot,

[Johnny Lieberman]

so I think the ID Buzz drives so well. I was shocked by how well it drove. Now the fact that the windows don't roll down is like the engineering snafu of the decade.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But aside from that. Yeah. What a nice vehicle.

[Matt Farah]

It was great. It felt like driving the monorail.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

I really enjoyed it because it's just wheelbase and you got this weird open air space in front of you where the windshield is, like, upright and far away.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It was like train fantasy camp. A little bit like this.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. I do like this van. I just need to see that grill in person. I like the idea of it, but you can. It makes it looks.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Here. Zach, I will text you. I have. I have a picture to put up. Let me text it to you.

[Zach]

2019 MacBook.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Okay.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, it's right here.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's right here.

[Matt Farah]

It's right here.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I took many pictures of many. Oh, yeah, this is the one.

[Matt Farah]

Okay. Where did you drive that? Lake Como.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Bilbao.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, Bilbao. How's Bilbao this time of year?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Bilbao is great any time of year. Also, I think you can get, like, a house in bilbao for, like, $17 is what it seems.

[Matt Farah]

There are many places in Europe where I would like to go for $17,

[Johnny Lieberman]

but the food is just insane. However, because the Germans are Germans, so I believe it's pronounced pintos pinchos. Pinchos is Basque. Tapas, the best. And all they're doing is giving us steaks. And I was like. But they had past appetizers that were like, 50 times better than the steak. Yeah, There you go.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, okay. In this photo, it looks better. You can tell it's like a mesh. There's a texture to it. In that photo, it just looked like a gloss black screen almost.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

And they had command plus. Can you just zoom in on that?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

So it looks way better here.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. And again, you don't have a front plate. In California, you don't have to have a front plate. Well, I mean, again, in Europe, they think you'll get shot if you don't have a front plate at all times on the car. You know what I mean? Like.

[Matt Farah]

Like.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Like the. The AMG thing on the bridge. The Other night. Oh, yeah, the Autobahn. Yeah. They put front license plates on and I'm like, why are you doing that? Like. And they're like, well, because it's like, you know, recreating the Autobahn. And you like take the front plate. It's ugly enough.

[Matt Farah]

Like, give it a chance.

[Zach]

The front plate distracts you from the way the club looks.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, no, this is.

[Johnny Lieberman]

All right.

[Matt Farah]

Well, once you see it from this angle and can see that there's a texture to it, then it's all right.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

So, you know, down Ben's hit me up. I want to drive this thing.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, it's come. It's. It's coming.

[Matt Farah]

Exotic.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Basically. 27 to the US all the way to drive that.

[Matt Farah]

You flew all the way to build out.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. It was my second time being invited for a Driving with Johnny video.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, okay.

[Johnny Lieberman]

You know, and. And they. And I was like, why not? You know.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, no, I would go to Bilbao also. I was just up the road from there for. Or what car was it? Valkyrie. Oh, Valkyrie was right up there in Rioja. Right up the road from there.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. Banging. Different than Valkyrie, the car.

[Matt Farah]

Yes. A little bit wood daily to have a Valkyrie for the weekends. Not Valkyrie. I'm sorry.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Valhalla.

[Matt Farah]

Valhalla.

[Zach]

Excuse me.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But also different than Valhalla.

[Matt Farah]

Yes.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Sorry.

[Matt Farah]

These V words are me all.

[Zach]

But.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. So they think they're onto something. We'll see in a. A year.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Well, 10 out of 10 would like to drive. Don't know nothing, but would like to drive.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And I think in the US the VLS is actually coming before the vle and then the Maybach is coming and then the.

[Matt Farah]

Which one is the S. Just means it's longer.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Longer. Yeah. In fact, if I had to guess, there will not be a VLE in the States. There'll be a VLS and a Maybach. Vls.

[Matt Farah]

Got it.

[Johnny Lieberman]

If I had to because we don't

[Matt Farah]

do short wheelbase vans here, so.

[Zach]

Right. Didn't the buzz. They offered as short one. But we.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I was in Norway and they're like, every single, you know, city gardener had a. Had an I.D. buzz. Short wheelbase. And I'm like, look at that.

[Matt Farah]

They're using them in the airports a lot too, as like utility vehicles. So I see them running around the tarmac in Europe and whatnot.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No one really understands our obsession with size. You know, like I kept telling the head of the program because he's like, you know, you know, I'm like, I just want to see the vls. Because, because this is kind of small. He goes, no, but it has so many liters. And I'm like, yeah, we don't even

[Matt Farah]

know what a liter is. I don't know what a liter is. But I was like the Europeans coming over here and appreciating our football stadiums for the water type games.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, and our Buckies and our waffle houses. No, but like I remember Giles Taylor was the head of Rolls Royce design, he did the Cullinan and I was asking about it and he had many champagnes, but he's telling me, he's like, yeah, we made one and we showed it to our British customers and they said, oh, quite lovely, it's fantastic. And showed it to Germans, they liked it. Showed it to the Russians and they said, it's got the woman on the front. Cool. Show it to the Chinese. They're like, oh, it says Rolls Royce and giant font.

[Matt Farah]

That's all we care about.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Brought it to the American customers and they said, you call that an suv? I got an Escalade, it's five times bigger than that. So they immediately went back and just added 12 inches in length and 8 inches in height and that became the Cullen. Yeah, that's what he told me. He's no longer there.

[Matt Farah]

I wonder what it was before. 12 inches in length, 8 inches shorter. Would have been a wagon. I mean it basically would have been a wagon.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Do you remember? It was the weirdest thing ever. But when they launched it, they took us out to lunch before there was a car to give us an envelope, a letter and it said, Rolls Royce is building a high sided car. That was like 18 months before we saw the thing. High sided car. And we're like, so that's an suv. And you know, they're so pretentious. Like, no, no, no, no, no. It's a high sighted car. I was like a car with an R. A car with an R. That's really funny. Yeah, so high sided car. High sided car.

[Matt Farah]

That's really strange.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I mean it's.

[Matt Farah]

I'm trying to picture a cullinan that was 12 inches shorter and 8 inches lower roofline. And it really in my head seems kind of strange.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Like looking the shorter would be weird. I could get the lower, you could chop that thing. But I don't know where they added the height.

[Matt Farah]

I do get where it's.

[Zach]

Huh. It'd be like an R3 by Rolls Royce.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, I mean it was. Yeah, it would look like a station, like a Phantom station wagon, effectively.

[Zach]

No, it was a lowered crossover mat. It's not a station wagon. That's the marketing. We've all been sold.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

Someone with the Rolls Royce would never be seen at a station.

[Zach]

Not at all.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's right. Yeah, that's right. Well said. Pasta. Mustard.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, dude. Oh, you know what? Speaking of mustard, I just got a Trader Joe's. I got a dill pickle flavored mustard that basically tastes like. If you have a hot dog that has mustard and relish on it, you'd be surprised how many things that's good on.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, that's. Yeah, I love relish. I bought relish at the beach house. We were barbecued. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Shout out to Sherge.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yes. Okay, cool.

[Matt Farah]

So how is the driving with Johnny Adventure going? It was all. It was a good start, and then it was a rocky middle, and now we're back in the game.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I mean, it's just this weird thing where I have many subscribers and. And. And people are watching the. The videos, doing pretty good, you know, like, decent views.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. You got a silver plaque.

[Zach]

That's cool.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But there's just no money. I don't know what. I'm like, I'm. I'm 30 grand in debt. You know what I mean? Like. Like, I found a job that I'd lose money every month.

[Zach]

It's crazy.

[Matt Farah]

That's tough.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. So I saw Larry Chen a couple weeks ago, and he was just yelling and screaming at me.

[Matt Farah]

He's like, why don't you have sponsors now? You gotta get good sponsors. That's how we make money, actually, as it turns out.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And. But I was like, well, I got approached by all these horrible sponsors. And he's like, no, he's like, you

[Matt Farah]

gotta get good sponsors.

[Johnny Lieberman]

So he claims he's gonna work on it, but I was like. I was like, I'm gonna be out of town. So I text him this morning. I'm like, all right, Larry. Like, let's go. It's Monday. And he's like, oh, I'm of Pike's Peak.

[Matt Farah]

You could also just do what I do and throw your pride out the window and, you know.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, no, I could. I had some horror.

[Matt Farah]

I'm not saying you should do, like, things that are, like, morally reprehensible, but, like, you know, there's certain items.

[Johnny Lieberman]

You heard about Grok AI?

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

God, we had. Oh, my God, you. You would have died. We had. We had a cyber beast. And I was like, hey, honey, it's got Grok. And she just kept hitting it. And she's like, hey, Grock, remember when you said you were Mecca Hitler was like, oh, yes, that was rather unfortunate, but that was early on. And then she's like, hey, Grok, do you know the 14 words? Like she just kept.

[Matt Farah]

Was it a press car?

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, it was. Motor Trend had one. And it was my birthday and I said, can I borrow that for the week? And I mean, I will say one really insanely good thing about it. And I was, I'm still blown away by this because I was Mr. You'll never get full self driving to work without lidar. I got home, kid's still up, he didn't see me in a week. And I'm like, let's do something. Like, let's go get a vanilla milkshake at McDonald's because I know they're open and that way you can just get the milkshake not to get out of the car. And I wanted him to see that the car drives itself because it's really good. So we're full self driving, big, wide, dark, dark street. And I have in Mad Max mode where it'll just speed and it's like going, yeah, you can take it out of Mad Max.

[Matt Farah]

That's a good thing to include.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I mean, you can speed without Mad Max. I've done that in every car I've ever been in, you know, but anyways,

[Matt Farah]

yeah, so my point is obviously a difference that you're. You miss. But go on.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, no, here's the thing. Here's the difference that I miss. Here's the difference.

[Matt Farah]

I just. Here's the difference in this world anymore.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Here's the difference. It's going 44 in a 35.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And then it slams on the brakes and I'm in my head like, stupid robot, as I say that, a family of skunks is walking in front of us, black mom with five black babies. And like, yeah, if you were looking down, you could see a white stripe. But my angle, it was black.

[Matt Farah]

That's so weird because they're. That's programmed to not stop for black. Never mind.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It knew they weren't human.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But like I was, I was again, again I was like, you can't do full self driving without lidar because of situations like this.

[Matt Farah]

And that's not the situation that you can't do it. It's when the cameras are obstructed with mud or snow or.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, yeah. Well, it won't go into full self driving if the cameras are obstructed. But, but my point is it was, it's really good. And the, the update of the one I was driving was like, apparently it sees animals now. It didn't see animals before. Now it's all. They released it before they did that.

[Matt Farah]

It's really trustworthy people.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I'm not. Again, it's. It was.

[Matt Farah]

You know, your experience isn't data, right? Your experience is one experience. Data is data. Like huge amounts of data justify whether this is a safe thing to deploy on the street or night right now.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Well, I would have killed.

[Matt Farah]

I took it to McDonald's and it stopped for a skunk.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Well, I would have killed six skunks. I mean, I would have. I would have hit those skunks.

[Matt Farah]

Okay, so the justification is for an ADAS system, not an FSD system. If a system was watching you drive and saw the skunks and applied those brakes like active emergency braking, I don't

[Johnny Lieberman]

think a system would have seen those skunks.

[Matt Farah]

What? Of course the system sees the skunks.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I don't think it would have seen the.

[Matt Farah]

I don't know, the same system.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I've hit a lot of animals in my time.

[Matt Farah]

I'm saying if that truck didn't, quote, drive itself, but had the same safety systems that it currently has, but you're steering, it would still see the.

[Johnny Lieberman]

By the way, it very well might do that. I just happen to have it in fsd. And again, I was the world's biggest. There's no way FSD will work. There's no way can't work. There's no way shouldn't be deployed. And then, boy, it works. It just works. Again, the edge cases are dangerous. Fog, rain, blah, blah. That's probably. You want lidar. Holy shit. It works in clear conditions.

[Matt Farah]

I think that there is something very dangerous about something that works really well most of the time.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I totally agree.

[Matt Farah]

That's why that's actually more dangerous than something that works badly. Well, except again, like, Phil Koopman would agree. He's the leading expert on this. But. Yes.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. Again, it. It. How do I put this? It saved a lot of skunk lives that night, you know, very easy. Had I been driving it. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Had you been driving it with adas

[Johnny Lieberman]

or any other car. Or any other car.

[Matt Farah]

The ud. You don't have data for that. You have absolutely no data.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I've hit. Well, not no other car.

[Matt Farah]

There's no data that.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. If Had I been in that GT3 doing the same thing.

[Matt Farah]

Sure. You want the G. That GT3 to have those levels of ADAs that. Would that make the GT3 a better car? If it had the.

[Zach]

That.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That yeah, it's really, it works really well. If it didn't work well, I'd be here saying, man, it works like. Because it works like for years the GT3 has ADAS.

[Matt Farah]

The first thing I do every time, time I drive it is turn it off.

[Johnny Lieberman]

You find that's a drive worse. Yeah, I'm not arguing that. What I'm arguing is like, holy shit. This update 14.2, it's shockingly good.

[Matt Farah]

What I'm saying is you are conflating the ADAS with a self driving system. A level two self driving system.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's level two. I'm again conflating the two.

[Matt Farah]

You're saying it's the FSD that stopped you from hitting the scope bunks. I'm saying it's the active emergency braking portion of the ADAS system that would have still done it if your hands were on the wheel.

[Zach]

I don't think either of you know for sure which one did it.

[Matt Farah]

That's fair.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Zach]

If all the systems are aiming forward cameras and emergency braking and radar. None of us know there's no radar.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, there's no radar. That's the crazy.

[Matt Farah]

Doesn't have radar

[Zach]

systems like most do.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. Like Cybertruck does has zero.

[Matt Farah]

None.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Well, it has parking sensors. I don't know how active they are. And this is too far away to be a parking sensor.

[Zach]

Okay.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But they, yeah, very famously they made this decision. They said we can do camera only.

[Zach]

I'm just saying, like I didn't know if they had. You know, I was. RAV4 has auto braking and it uses a system that's not a camera.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. I was shocked. I was, I was just like literally shocked. And like it does drive rather well. Like I went up Angeles Crest. Like it goes slow but it, it drove to Newcomb's ranch. We. Without me doing anything. Which is a good test.

[Matt Farah]

I think it's a one time experience that for that type of technology is not a good representation of whether or not a system is safe. You need to look at bigger data.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. But again I would like to see since again, I don't know. Because they won't release anything. They're an opaque company and blah blah, blah.

[Matt Farah]

And they're really famously trustworthy company and they're CEOs. I should absolutely.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Perhaps the worst person who's ever lived. Let's, you know, let's.

[Matt Farah]

Certainly the worst person alive.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. Well, he's up there.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But that version 14.2, I'd love to see statistics on. You know, they won't Release them.

[Matt Farah]

I just. Famously, people who don't share statistics are way above board. I mean, it's just throughout history, the. The we. You can't look behind the books, but just take our word. This is better. Is a totally truthful strategy that I have no issue with.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, again, I'm. I'd love to see, but it's. It's an. It's impressive. It's just like super impressive.

[Matt Farah]

I mean, yeah, it's. It's great when someone has an experience that is good.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, but I had. I mean, several, and I know several people with it.

[Matt Farah]

That's not data. Dude, you.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Millions of miles of data.

[Matt Farah]

But you're going on big podcasts and you're posting on Instagram about how my experience was so great.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But.

[Matt Farah]

But without any data, you're saying that this is better Because I say it is. Anecdotally.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Well, it's like. That's like reviewing a car. I mean, it's.

[Zach]

No, no, no.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's.

[Matt Farah]

It's not like reviewing a car. It's. You're talking about software that requires millions and millions and millions of miles and

[Johnny Lieberman]

statistics and all of this. I don't. I hate having to. Definitely. But they have that. I mean, they've done millions of dollars. Well, we know they've done millions and millions of miles.

[Matt Farah]

Here we go. When is this story from 2020 today.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Okay.

[Matt Farah]

Exclusive. Reuters. Tesla presented misleading full self driving safety data to European regulators.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Okay, well, look at that.

[Matt Farah]

Johnny had a good time in the car. But lying to European.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Lying about what? Hang on a second.

[Matt Farah]

Lying about what? No, I have to subscribe to lawyers.

[Zach]

There's a couple of things that work that highlight both arguments. So here's a case where the police in Florida. This is a story from two weeks ago.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's autopilot. That's not ssd.

[Zach]

Sorry. Okay, well, Waymo, where I had this other thing up that Waymo pulled cars in five cities because they drove into flood areas.

[Matt Farah]

That's bad.

[Zach]

Right? So I'm saying, like all of these systems. The Waymo thing proves that.

[Matt Farah]

Remember I told you about that before? The first limitation of Waymo, the first time I ever took a wh o from my house to here and it dropped during the rain and it dropped me off in the middle of a puddle.

[Zach]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

Like a year later.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Well, again, I have no experience with any of these in the rain. I put that out there.

[Matt Farah]

I know there's. Rain is a big problem.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's why I think you need lidar.

[Zach]

I agree.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, yeah. And fog and all kinds of stuff.

[Zach]

I think this to me and the other. The other case.

[Matt Farah]

I'd like to find the copy for

[Zach]

that other Reuters goal that these companies have.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Tesla's horrible. Like with like that like you. You saw the one where Doug in. In autopilot the car. You know I don't. Ran through something killed a guy and mortally wounded another one and then it automatically deleted the accident. Like. I'm not saying they do that shit.

[Matt Farah]

Yes. I think that if a person gets into an accident, they're a human who makes mistakes. I can forgive them. When cars do things systematically. When a company covers up this kind of shit systematically.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Totally agree.

[Matt Farah]

When a company says this is safe, buy it from me and it's half assed. And they are not open about the statistics.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Totally agree.

[Matt Farah]

You have a major hurdle to clear for me to agree. Agree that this is safe. And one person saying I had a good ride.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Is miles from that.

[Johnny Lieberman]

However I like again, I'm talking about this update. I Believe it was 14.2. Might have been 14. Might have been for. I don't know. Exactly. I don't. Not a Tesla guy. But everyone I've spoke with. I know it's anecdotal. Big, big pool though. Like they're like, yeah. It's insane how well it works. Finally. Like, it's insane.

[Zach]

And I've heard Kamisa say the same thing. That was a couple months ago.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, he's out of his mind. But yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Well, it's.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I mean. You guys best friends? Oh yeah. It's a good thing he's coming to my sleepover.

[Matt Farah]

You know, they've been. They've only been selling the thing for 10 years again.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's. It's collecting money. Dishonest. Oh, it's. Well, we're at the roadster. It's literally nine years. Yeah. Literal. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Holy. I had a. This poor guy. This poor guy came on our road and track event, this past thing and talking. He's like, you know, he said he had. He. He gave him. He gave them money for a roadster.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. 250,000, right? Yeah, yeah. Quarter mil.

[Matt Farah]

And he was like, you know, I think I was like, get your money back, dude. What are you doing? Like, it was a lie then, it's a lie now. Like, get your goddamn money back immediately.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I spoke with a guy who's still an engineer at Tesla. He's a. He's in the suspension department. And I was like, is that thing fucking coming? He's like, yeah, it actually. He's like, I know. I know, he's like, it is coming.

[Matt Farah]

This company has zero credibility.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But again, he's, he's a, he's a suspension engineer, you know what I mean?

[Matt Farah]

But I don't, I don't.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But I said, I said, I said, does it actually levitate? Because I keep hearing it levitates. He's like, dude, it's worse. He's like, it flies. I go, what do you mean?

[Matt Farah]

Listen, if I wanted to pump my Tesla stock, I'd lie to Johnny Lieberman and have him talk about it on a fucking podcast.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Not this guy. Not this guy.

[Matt Farah]

It flies. Fuck off.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Well, it flies by. Here's how it flies. It's got, it's, it's, it's, it's a trick. It's, it's a trick. But it apparently raises up using compressed air, using SpaceX nozzles. It raises the thing up and then it has other novels that just skid it forward or push it forward with compressed air. What are we talking about?

[Matt Farah]

The, the roaster is what you're saying it bunny hops?

[Johnny Lieberman]

There's, it doesn't hop. It goes up and then it moves. I don't know how it stops. It says other nozzles that stop it, but I was like, really? He's like, yeah, it's really, it does that. I'm like, that's insane.

[Zach]

This is, I would be shocked.

[Matt Farah]

I mean, this is the stupidest sounding thing I've ever heard.

[Zach]

Stupider, but air pressure that you have to project downward to lift a 5,000 pound car.

[Matt Farah]

I don't think this is happening at all. I don't buy it.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I've been hearing about the levitating roadster

[Matt Farah]

for a while from people who lie mostly.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, no, no, no. But this was the first time I talked to an employee and he was, and he was kind of like, he's like, it's a disaster. He's like, it's gonna crash into all kinds of shit.

[Matt Farah]

I, I, I, I, I don't believe any of this. I don't believe any of this is.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I, I think that they would do. It's dangerous.

[Zach]

Like, it's like, I mean, I don't

[Matt Farah]

think, I don't think it's technically possible.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I think it's definitely possible. You blast compressor air out of a hole. You know, Newton's third law.

[Matt Farah]

Do you know how much compressed air you need to make a 5,000 pound car jump into the air?

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's gonna be a 3,500 pound. But yes, you need a lot. Yeah, but it would, that's yeah.

[Matt Farah]

What?

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's not a thing. Well, I don't know.

[Matt Farah]

Do you know what happens to cars with hydraulics when you make them jump in the air? They rattle themselves to pieces. Nobody would do this in a car.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's gonna. The idea is it levitates. I. I think they use it like horseshit. Why do they want to do it? Because Elon Musk says, I want to do it. And they said, oh, shit, we got to engineer that. Yeah, that's why, you know, but look, you, you have a, you have a, you have a, you know, I don't know, 500 horsepower, whatever the road is going to be motor. You can compress a lot of air.

[Zach]

Let's make a bet then. Do we think this will ever.

[Matt Farah]

No.

[Zach]

Two bets. A bet, Two bets. Will it ever be demonstrated?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yes.

[Zach]

On video.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Okay.

[Zach]

Without damaging the car or the ground beneath it?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Well, we have three. Will the roadster ever actually happen?

[Zach]

Well, that's a different bet. I want to know if this crazy dumb levitation technology will ever be demonstrated as successful, much like the cybertruck's bulletproof windows, and then will it ever be sold to the public?

[Johnny Lieberman]

This is again from, from a Tesla engineer's mouth who was like, alarmed by it. He's like, it's worse than that. Because I'd heard for a while from different people that like, they wanted to levitate and they're going to actually put SpaceX rocket nozzles on it and blah,

[Matt Farah]

blah, blah, that, that is one. See, that's where it falls apart. We're gonna put SpaceX rocket nozzles.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But there are people that love that.

[Matt Farah]

There are people that love that saying that bullshit. That doesn't mean a fucking thing. That doesn't mean anything. There's no such thing about. Apart from a SpaceX nozzle, from a SpaceX rocket that is actually functionally applicable to a car.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Well, unless it's a nozzle you push compressed air out of. I think.

[Matt Farah]

Here's what I believe. I believe Tesla is capable of building a David Copperfield esque demonstration prototype in which a car appears to levitate, possibly briefly, and do this thing. They will collect a huge bump in their stock, collect a bunch of fucking fake more deposits from people, steal it, and never build the car. That's what I predict.

[Zach]

I think it's such a weird thing to do. Meanwhile, like China has, you know, the crazy articulation with the wheels, like lifting up at each corner, like, did you see the drill?

[Matt Farah]

The irony is, if they wanted to build a car that did Crazy shit. They could just go to China, right? Be done.

[Zach]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

$40,000 container ship, 300 miles an hour. Flies.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Has a drone. Yeah.

[Zach]

You can buy it at a kiosk there. You swipe your credit card, it comes out of a venue.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Exactly.

[Matt Farah]

Dude, the guy who like DMS me like, I can help you make thumbnail. Like literally drives one of those. He commutes.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yes, I know him too.

[Matt Farah]

Self driving car that does dances and axes and. Yeah. Jump over speed. It has a karaoke bar built in.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

It's 12,000 yen.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, 100 again, I'm just reporting what a guy told me. I don't know.

[Zach]

I'll bet you $50 that is not.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I only do dollar bets because I don't have any money. But like I'm. I'm in the hole from this nonsense. That's hilarious.

[Zach]

I'll bet you a dollar. I'll bet you that it's not demonstrated within two years.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Okay, I'll take.

[Zach]

I mean again, I'll bet you $2 it's never sold to the public.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Two $1 bets. But yes, I will bet you. I'll take both of them. Those beds.

[Zach]

All right, great.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But I'll also bet you a dollar it just never goes into production.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

It just. Nothing.

[Zach]

I mean, I'm not going to bet against that.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's. I mean literally that the deposits were 2017. We're in the back half of. Of 26.

[Matt Farah]

What is the statute of limitations on wire fraud? That's what we're going to find out. The project is.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's a good idea. I mean, but maybe it's like the Trump phone. Like, you know, a conceptualized in a America.

[Zach]

Yes. They changed that. Oh my God. From me.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Whatever it was, it was or it was like. It was like inspired by America.

[Matt Farah]

Someone got an iPhone and it said designed by. In Cupertino. And they're like. I know.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. No, did you. You saw that Trump phone though, right? It was. It was. It was like some.

[Matt Farah]

I don't know, it's like a necklace. Gold Nextel.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I don't know.

[Zach]

Designed with American values. Sorry, that's what it says now.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

So good.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Cool.

[Matt Farah]

Designed in the middle of a UFC fight. Abusing minorities. By the way, that.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That UFC fight. I didn't know this. It was on Paramount. Plus nobody watched it.

[Matt Farah]

That's like the 8th ranked deep in the subscription.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Thing.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, someone took. Because I'm like, how'd you watch it? You know, I was flipping the channels.

[Zach]

That makes perfect sense.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, it's Paramount Plus I was like, oh, it's Larry Ellison.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, buddy. Backyard wrestling at the White House. Let's go. We are the trashiest. I told you I saw Terry Crews at the Indy 500.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, no, no.

[Zach]

Oh, yeah.

[Matt Farah]

He was on my flight and when I saw him, he was right. He was right next to me in the hospitality. I was all, what's up, President Kabacho? Shit's a little real, isn't it? He's like, you know it, bro.

[Johnny Lieberman]

He apparently is a big car guy. Yeah, we made contact with him on for the inevitable to come on. He declined us, but he. But the reason why like him. There's a bunch of like. I know he's not really an athlete, but, you know, there's a bunch of athletes that are super into cars that we were trying to get like Strahan, Michael Strahan.

[Matt Farah]

Strahan's well known jersey, big collection.

[Johnny Lieberman]

He's also got. He's apparently out here, he's got a Morgan three wheeler with the firewall moved.

[Matt Farah]

That's awesome. An EWB three wheeler. That's awesome.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I think it's the same length. They just literally move the firewall. Oh, wow.

[Matt Farah]

So it's more dangerous. He probably look hilarious in one of those things. Like, how do you make it more dangerous?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Put his feet closer to the motor.

[Matt Farah]

I was, I was talking about cars that are. Where there are extremely dangerous, but the fun of them is worth the danger. And that's why. Did you drive the Spirit?

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, I gotta drive that.

[Matt Farah]

When they, when them Argentinians come back, you should have a go. That's another one where it's. There's nothing about it dynamically that's sketchy, but you are quite exposed. Sure, but. But the danger is worth the. Worth the experience.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I mean, look, I forget they exist, but like I've driven a Bunch of Lotus 7 and Catam Sevens and Birkin Sevens and all those. I mean, it's basically a motorcycle, but kind of more dangerous because you're lower. But they're great. I mean, they're.

[Matt Farah]

Speaking of which, my Vespa comes tomorrow. New Vespa, nice 2026. My first brand new one.

[Johnny Lieberman]

What's new about it? Is there anything different?

[Matt Farah]

You saw. Remember my green one? Sure. My 2020. I sold that one. That's a 300. My new one is the 310. It's an all new engine. It's five more horsepower, so it's 26 horsepower.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Now that's like a Renault du chevaux.

[Matt Farah]

It goes 85 miles an hour. Oh, keyless start.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Would you go on the freeway? Yes, you could.

[Matt Farah]

Would and do regularly do. Yeah, yeah. It's got abs, it's got stability control. It has fucking. A phone. A USB C port to charge my phone.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Brilliant.

[Matt Farah]

But it. The. Dude. The new suspension and the new throttle mapping of the new engine are like super luxurious. And I got it. The color is called blue electrico, but it's essentially Mexico blue.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, that's cool.

[Matt Farah]

Which is.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, that's cool. I love.

[Matt Farah]

It's gonna be great.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I am. If you go to my inster and

[Matt Farah]

that's danger dangerous but worth it.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, here's one I'm thinking about. Go down to see the McLaren F1.

[Matt Farah]

How do you miss it? Red McLaren F1 in red is very good.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's from Velocity Invitational.

[Matt Farah]

I heard that was a good time this year.

[Johnny Lieberman]

You should come. It's really, really fun. Yeah, I got paid to say that. But it's really. It's like that red one was riding around on my 10 person golf cart and I almost gotten a head on with a McLaren F1. That's the kind of event it is. Keep going, keep going. Ah. So that's called like a maven. Yeah, Yeah. I liked it.

[Matt Farah]

So as a pit bike for an event like this.

[Johnny Lieberman]

As a pit bike. Perfect. Yeah.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

I. So the thing about a lot of these, a maving occupies this weird sort of space between an E bike and a motorcycle.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

It's. You need to have a plate on it.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

But it's not quite fast enough to really be a motorcycle.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It goes 75.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Right. I saw a 62 and even then the battery goes quickly. So it's, it's, it's. To me, it's. It's a good little neighborhood run around kind of thing.

[Johnny Lieberman]

So I have that, I have that old cake thing. Oh yeah. Which goes. It goes over six. They say six. It goes a little quicker.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And it has a plate and it got stolen. And it's such a weird looking thing that nobody really noticed. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

So the problem with these E bikes is they're very expensive. The mavings are like 9009 grand.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Same as my cake. Yeah. Same price.

[Matt Farah]

And the vehicle that they're meant to replace, which is something kind of like my Vespa gets like 70 miles to the gallon and it gets cheaper. You know, I get it.

[Johnny Lieberman]

What's the Vespa go for a new Vespa?

[Matt Farah]

Well, mine was a very top.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Okay. But like a regular. Yeah. Six grand something for brand new I just. This is the first, first one I rode where it's like, it really felt like I was on a bike. Like it actually had, it actually had your right foot was the, was the rear brake. You know what I mean?

[Matt Farah]

It's like motorcycle configuration.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

But it's just not quite fast enough for the price for me. Not quite enough range. But it's beautiful.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I figure he's. I think he said like 60 miles of range.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Which. Yeah, it's. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Again, if you're out of it. Every electric motorcycle I ever ridden from my E bike all the way up to the Harley. The live wire in reality, with someone of our heft on it carriage. It's about half of what they say.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, that sucks.

[Matt Farah]

I got like 60, 70 miles on the livewire and that was it. And that was being pretty chill.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's like the original Tesla roadster. It was like 100 miles of range and it's like I got to like 40 and I was like, I gotta get back to the fricking place. I just really enjoyed riding Beautiful. Me and Steve like rode them all around Sonoma and it was like. I just, I don't know, it just felt good as a pit bike. It was a great. Can't beat it.

[Matt Farah]

It's the best. Yeah. Yeah. I totally get it as a toy to ride around those type of areas.

[Johnny Lieberman]

They're in, they're in Culver City, so right here. So I'm gonna go borrow one for a week because why the hell not? But, but I'm also like, I don't want to get like 75 on the freeway.

[Matt Farah]

I wouldn't ride this on the freeway.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I wouldn't go on the freeway either. Yeah. But I can take city streets.

[Matt Farah]

My, my Vespa is faster.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Literally.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I should get a vest. I love Vespas.

[Matt Farah]

They'll lend you one. I know there's Vespa press bikes. I'll connect you to them.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I gotta weigh in my head like, like I'm probably gonna. I know I sort of know how I'm gonna die if it's not from a heart attack. Cuz I'm so fat.

[Matt Farah]

I get it.

[Johnny Lieberman]

YouTube. I, I think like filming a video where I'm like pulling out of a, a turnout, getting back onto a two lane road. I'm pretty sure that's how I die, you know.

[Matt Farah]

And you take someone along with you that's at you.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. They're gonna be doing the hitting. So, you know, I'm pretty sure. Pretty sure that's the way I go. But also, like every once in a while I have one of some cool press bike and I fall off it and I'm just getting old.

[Matt Farah]

Wear the gear.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, that's the problem is like, I'm wearing like Crocs and shorts. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

That is how you die.

[Zach]

My neighbor rides bikes. Been doing for a long time. He'd had no crashes. And we. He and I have talked about riding and stuff. And the other day he was up in Malibu and someone in front of him at the big turn stunt, they crashed because they were like, overzealous and they're. This guy flew off his motorcycle. His supermotard bounced off the fence and then hit my neighbor.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, my God.

[Zach]

Knocked him off the bike. So this guy didn't do anything weird or wrong. He got hit by a motorcycle.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I knew a dude who was killed. A guy crossed a double yellow. He was parked. It was. It was a double yellow on the street. He was at a light and it was a left arrow and the guy went too fast and, like, didn't make the turn. Hit him. Killed him.

[Matt Farah]

That's terrible.

[Johnny Lieberman]

You know, so it's like.

[Matt Farah]

It's very dangerous.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's very dangerous. Very dangerous.

[Matt Farah]

That said a good Vespa. And I wear the gear and I try to not be stupid on it. And it saves me so much time and so much stress down in the city.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, yeah.

[Matt Farah]

And it's a little bit of being on vacation. The Vespa. You know what the Vespa is? I've been. We started using this expression. Racing with. The Vespa is my private jet.

[Zach]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

I'm never going to have a private jet. So I'm going to have little bits of luxury in my life that race represent private jet. And granted, I'm not ungrateful. I have a lot of nice stuff. Sure. But the Vespa and me being like, I'm gonna go wherever the fuck I want in 20 minutes. I'm gonna park right up front. I'm not gonna pay a dime for it.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's my parting up front is sort of the greatest part of all this stuff.

[Matt Farah]

Driving into the Rose Bowl.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Glorious. No, but like my little cake thing, it fits two bags of groceries, it fits dog food, it fits lunch for me and my wife. And it goes 60 miles an hour. And I can whip around anywhere I want close to me. And it's the cargo box.

[Matt Farah]

Absolutely. Makes the Vespa. Without it, it's a toy, and with it it's a tool.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Huge difference.

[Johnny Lieberman]

100 agreed.

[Matt Farah]

Let's go to the people. Let's see what some of them. They paid to be here. Let's see what they have to say. Of course, if you want to ask us questions for money, like dancing Jewish monkeys. Patreon.com. The Smoke Tyler podcast. It's where you ask questions of the live show, then watch the live show. It's where you get the show early. It's where you get the show extra. It's where you get the show without ads. It's where you have access to exclusive collabs and things. I have. We have two new collabs in the work, in the works. Not to mention the watches. Everyone should have their notice canyon pink by now. They shipped out last week and we also sold out. We sold out the Detroit live show in two days.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, yeah. That's killer.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

What a great idea.

[Matt Farah]

So that's going to be really fun for Dream Cruise. So I look forward to seeing everyone there who. Who bought a ticket. And we will have. We have a date yet for TST Smith Sniff.

[Zach]

August 18th.

[Matt Farah]

August 18th. TST Smith Sniff in Irvine, California.

[Johnny Lieberman]

What you're doing with Christian, though, that's like. That would be a great show.

[Matt Farah]

Christian is the most perfect opener to our podcast vibe and he crushes it.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

And he's going to have a great time in Detroit.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, hell yeah. He's doing Kiss. What's he doing?

[Matt Farah]

We don't.

[Johnny Lieberman]

We're not saying.

[Zach]

Yeah, okay.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It will be appropriate for MC5 stooges. He's gonna do Motown. He's gonna do Motown.

[Matt Farah]

He's got a plan.

[Johnny Lieberman]

He's gonna do Motown.

[Matt Farah]

He has a plan. So that's. That's. It's sold out, but that's gonna be fun. So thanks to him. Let's go to the people. She likes the choke to get started. Says as the Luce replaced the Mondial as the most horrific Ferrari.

[Johnny Lieberman]

The Mondial was never the most horrific.

[Matt Farah]

I agree. I don't think the Monol is the most terrific.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I saw the most terrific Ferrari was that gold thing.

[Zach]

Oh, God.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, the.

[Johnny Lieberman]

The.

[Matt Farah]

Not. It's not a Daytona.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's like a Nardy Daytona something.

[Matt Farah]

Daytona Nart special or something.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It was so bad that the most terrific. And also like you ever look at the first Ferrari.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, yeah. The inter or whatever. 1, 2, 5, enter 1, 2, 2. Inter or something like that. Not. Not so special.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, no, not that. Not that. Not.

[Matt Farah]

That's kind of bad. But not the one I'm talking about.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No. There's. There's a gold one. It's like. It's almost a shooting break. It's really ugly. It was at.

[Zach]

It's a Daytona shooting break version.

[Matt Farah]

No, it might have 400i shooting break.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, this is older than that. It's.

[Zach]

It's.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's so bad. I think it was a one off. But anyways, Solar Brunei has had worse Ferrari locked up for decades. Several of them.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, the Lucia. I don't know if it's horrific. The Lucia is just such a miss. Like, just a swing and a miss.

[Zach]

I think it's unattractive and it's a strange choice. So for me, I think it's kind of horrific.

[Matt Farah]

Speaking of which, she likes it in the Subaru Outback door says, would the Luce be less controversial if it was half priced at 300k and was the entry level Ferrari?

[Zach]

I think that was the icing on the cake that it is.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Zach]

It just added sting. You're like, and it's this much.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But people still would have judged it at 300 grand. It still looks like a Toyota Crown

[Matt Farah]

or whatever it does, you know, dude, it looks like the Subaru. Which is the Subaru, not the Solterra, but it's like the.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Matt Farah]

It's one of those.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, there's a name for it now. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Cadillac Cimarron.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Burgundy.

[Matt Farah]

These are getting better. These guys are rehearsal.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's a really good idea.

[Matt Farah]

As two EV owners, do you think there's a way to convince people of the benefits short of having them drive one for a week? You know what? It's like, really funny, eric. Downstairs, my GM is. I had an EV, the Genesis GV70 EV. And I was like, dude, you'd like this thing. I was like, I want you to take it home for the day. Bring it back tomorrow, just full charge. You don't have to do anything. Just drive. He was like, no. He said no. And I was like, he just like, refused.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Some people will not be convinced.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Look, I had a dude, a guy from South Africa. I know him and his wife. They're like exotic car dealers. They happen to. They're in town. We're at Newcomb's. And he was saying how, I don't know, there's something horrible about EVs and I happen to have my truck. I'm like, you want to drive my truck? No.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And I go, all right. We go for a ride in my truck. He goes, yeah. And. And you know, thing. You know what a Rivian truck does and we get back and he's like, I'd like to buy your truck. I was like, get your own. This one's mine.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean that. I think when people. When the prices are the same as the equivalent gas car, when people really start to see DC FCS fast chargers around in their neighborhood, not just hear that there's more.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Literally, like, see them all, like, next to the Taco Bell. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

There's one there. When there's one everywhere and it. And it just feels like there's enough chargers and you won't be inconvenienced, like that kind of thing. Or gaskets to nine bucks a gallon.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Well, you know, I was with Hyundai, and they were saying, you know, that when the war started from. From February to March, they saw a 39.8% increase month over month. Yeah. On EV stuff. They also said that when gas gets to. It doesn't mean not nationally, but locally, when it gets to $4.50, that's the pain point for Americans. And that's when they're like, maybe I should get an ev. I heard it was four times cheaper to run.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And so that, you know, it's like when you're $70 a week and gas goes to 110, it's like, oh, that's a lot of money.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

So, yeah, look. No, you look. We're trying to get Neil DeGrasse Tyson on my other podcast and. And not spiked the inevitable. And that's all I want to ask him is like, you know, how do you explain facts to people that aren't in the mood to believe a fact? Like, I don't think you can. You know, the last.

[Zach]

Since, you know, he was just on Shannon Sharpe's show. Yeah, his great interview.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, I saw it was fantastic.

[Zach]

But he said he's like, when people push back in the comments wherever, he's like, I'll answer them with facts once. And if I hand them the facts they asked for, and if they literally ask for a picture of something and he gives it to them and then they still argue with him, he's like, I will not engage with that person anymore because I've given them the fact they requested and they just moved the goalpost.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And by the way, he's in the fucking comments because the reason I'm talking to him is he emailed me and he's like, hey, you're always making really good points in my comments. Like, who are you? And I'm like, oh, I'm like, we've met before. Blah, Blah. You know, because I've met him a few times but I was like you should come on my podcast. He goes okay, so we're trying. All right. But yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Mike Honcho's Playgirl spread when what's the best sports car for big and tall folks? Dude is 64280.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Well I'm. I'm 5 10, 260 so I'm.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. I mean I've been that heavy. I'm not that tall but 911s.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I was going to say GT3s. 911s. I have a friend who's six seven and he fits in a 991.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

The big body coupes. Yeah. The. The two door Ms. Brabus car. That thing looks cool. I can. There's a car I was just in.

[Matt Farah]

I say it's not C7 Corvettes.

[Johnny Lieberman]

The GT63 while great in every way. Man, you can bash your head getting into that thing. Small door opening, just a head basher of a car.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, you could. Yeah. I mean C. Like C class or S class coupe kind of thing. You go big body.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh CL ucl. That's a. Yeah, that's a big one. But yes, but you know, but six four. Also I have a friend who's a you know, spec meada racer. He's a lot thinner than 280 but he's 64 and he fits fine in

[Matt Farah]

an Amiata if you can swing the money. Ferrari FF is pretty roomy.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh yeah, yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Got a good amount of room in that.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's a great car.

[Matt Farah]

We have a. I have a client who's an NBA player here at the shop and he has a Ferrari 812. I think the Ferrari 812 is a little short. If you, if you're 64 and you're all torso and not much legs, the 812 will be fine. If you're all legs, that's going to be problematic.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I love the 812.

[Matt Farah]

The engine is just. I am like a half inch short.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

A half inch too tall in the legs to be like all day comfortable in it. It's not too bad though.

[Johnny Lieberman]

What about Temari? I fit in every car so I never pay attention.

[Matt Farah]

Dude. If you've got Temerari on money, it's surprisingly roomy for a small car. Okay. Same as Revuelto.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. Revolt is super comfy but it's. I mean you know, it's so funny.

[Zach]

Oh R8 because this person shopping third gen Viper.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, not, not the R8. I would say No, I. Well, I was.

[Matt Farah]

I thought like Gallardo, when you're 6 4, the R8 is as good as you're gonna get.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And it's. I don't think it's very good.

[Zach]

I like them.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, no, I don't think it's very good for size.

[Zach]

I think it's been better for size than the Gardo or the volume up Huracan.

[Matt Farah]

I wouldn't get the Spider because you lose leg room than a Gallardo, but by a pretty solid margin.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Okay.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I was just gonna say the.

[Zach]

The.

[Johnny Lieberman]

The last Roi drove was like 700,000 and the Temari was 605. So it's like.

[Matt Farah]

Was it 6? The one we had a p. Cody started with a five, and I was like, whoa, It's.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But if you think about the performance, it performs as well, if not quicker, than ever. Welto. So now it's just like, do you want small or big?

[Matt Farah]

It's not as dramatic as Revuelto, for sure.

[Zach]

No.

[Matt Farah]

But the performance, the way it drives is similar.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Matt. Rear ends. Moms. Not in 30 years. Bro X5 or Land Cruiser for. For an anti.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Bro.

[Matt Farah]

SUV for dirt roads and snow.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Land Cruiser.

[Matt Farah]

I mean, really? Land Cruiser.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Land Cruiser X5 isn't. Unless you put crazy winter tires even then.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. An X5 will get you up a gravel road, but not a whole lot more than that.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Okay. Going top down with the top down. After listening to the podcast, we said the best way to learn to drive manual is to just get a manual and use it as your car. Yes. I got to thinking about how long it would take to get a reasonable foundation of skills. Is nine hours across a long weekend enough for someone to not be an active nuisance on public roads?

[Zach]

Yes.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yes. That's great.

[Matt Farah]

Yes. I mean, honestly, if you have a decent teacher or you go back and look at my YouTube videos and how to drive stick from like, eight years ago, you could be. You can go from the parking lot to the road and not be a nuisance in 20 minutes.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yes.

[Matt Farah]

I mean, you might stall a couple times, but that's not the end of the world. Just don't panic. You know, real steep hills for the first day or two. Maybe. Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It depends where you live. But look, look, if you live in la, hills are a fact of life. Like, find a quiet hill somewhere and practice. Yeah. And like, what's the worst is gonna happen? You stall it. It's not bad. And also, just going with what you said, I used to teach people how to. How to Drive stick. What I would do is I'd take them to a parking lot and I'd say, all right, just shut your eyes and floor it for three seconds and then open it. You know, just. There's nothing to hit. Just. It's not going to explode. Just, just count to three, you know, and for it in neutral.

[Zach]

Neutral.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No putting gear in a giant parking lot where there's nothing to hit in like a. I was teaching him like a Sentra with a manual. Just like, people just get so freaked out. Like just, just, just get used to just going forward and then just, you know, stop and.

[Matt Farah]

Okay.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

I'm not sure I understand the floor for three seconds, but that's fine. Go on.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Just because people think like something horrible is going to happen and it's like, you know, unless you have like, you know, a Ferrari Luche, something terrible will happen. Unless you have a Ferrari Luche, nothing's really happening in three seconds. And Nissan Sentra, or whatever you're.

[Matt Farah]

Hannah, which I taught her, was afraid of the jerkiness. She really is bothered by jerkiness.

[Zach]

That's very unsettling when you get old.

[Matt Farah]

The way to get out of that is actually to floor it, believe it or not.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Or clutch clutching her floor. Yeah. I don't just do something in the parking lot where there's no chance of hitting anything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and make big crazy inputs and then it's like. Oh, yeah.

[Zach]

If you can, like in the parking lot, initiate the jerkiness, like stall it and find out.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Zach]

What makes it do that and what happens when you put your clutch in or you add throttle. Because now you. You've created the problem and you know how to solve the problem. So out in the world when those things arrive, you know what to do.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But nine hours is total. I mean, it should be three full days of driving. But you, you'll be fine, dude.

[Matt Farah]

You'll be fine. Yeah, you'll be just fine.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's it. Yeah.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Well, why is everyone asking about Luche? Is there a reason for that?

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's on the brain.

[Zach]

All right, all right.

[Matt Farah]

It's fine. Pugs. And Porsche says when I pull up at the local cars and coffee in my 911 Turbo S, none of the TikTok kids raise their phones. Which cars have the biggest delta between actual performance and fucks games It. Oh, I mean, I mean the Turbo S is going to be up there.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Turbo S, I'd say the. The Lucid Sapphire is a car that is like so ridiculous to drive and like just. I know. No One cares about speed anymore, but. Oh my God, it's so ridiculous.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, it's like it's an obscene amount of power and performance and nobody looks at it.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Nobody cares.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, no one cares at all. I would. You could say a Taycan Turbo GT would be the same thing. I mean pretty much nobody cares. And it's obscenely fun fast.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Although if you got it in purple, I think people.

[Matt Farah]

You got the eggplant color.

[Zach]

Yeah, it could be.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Okay, maybe get a purple Turbo sir.

[Matt Farah]

Let's see. So really fast performance.

[Johnny Lieberman]

There's.

[Matt Farah]

Dude, there's a whole bunch of electric cars that are just like a Rivian. Like, you know, Rivian is. A Rivian is. Accelerates as fast as an F40.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But it's.

[Matt Farah]

You know, it's a Camry around much faster. Sure, whatever. But it's point stands. It's a camera around here. No one's looking at it. Yeah, yeah. I would say a lot of people take pictures of my Myers Manx. It's not very fast. So that's the other way around, you know.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But that it's true. Like Turbo S is like for some reason people know not to care because it's weird. Like they'll take a picture of a GTS over a Turbo S is sort of. I don't know. It's weird.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. I mean 911 Turbo S's are about the fastest things around.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

And in the, in a city. Well, in this city, in this city, in a few, in New York, in Miami, in la, maybe San Francisco. They're not that special. Bring one of them to Cleveland and you're the king of the world.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh well, I had something in, in outside of New Orleans and it was like. Oh yeah, it was a Hellcat. I had a Hellcat, a four door charger. And like you would have thought I

[Matt Farah]

was like, well, certainly down there, you know, crazy.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It was crazy.

[Matt Farah]

I drove a silver Carrera S that wouldn't get two looks in la. All over the south for a week. I was rock star.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. Everything's relative. Do it again on a Hellcat.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Okay, run.

[Johnny Lieberman]

How do you decide which ones to.

[Matt Farah]

Zach does a first scan and then I, I do the ones I think would be most entertaining for the audience.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Honestly. Okay.

[Matt Farah]

Speaking of dancing monkeys, Micah Moore says you guys are automotive journalists. You get to drive a lot of stuff. What is the best way for the average consumer to test drive a more expensive car? They're interested, such as a Cayman GT4 or Z06 to gauge whether or not it's what you're going to enjoy. The most expensive car I've owned to date is in the 70-100k range. Two good ways I can think of Turo. If it's in your city, you'd be surprised what you can rent or going to Vegas and going to a place like Dream Racing. Dream racing's got like 40 awesome sports cars there and you can go back to, back to back to back on a track with a. And they haven't paid me to say this. I just like their operation with like well prepared sports cars on a track and you can decide it's pretty fun.

[Zach]

They got right seat instruction and they'll encourage you to go pretty quick.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, they're good, good instructors. Yeah good operation, well maintained cars. You can, you could figure out for yourself couple hundred bucks. If you're talking about buying a six figure car, spend a few 200 to learn how it drives.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I have a friend who recently got into a 458 and he said that's how he decided on it was he went to the one I think in Vegas he said and just drove everything and liked that one the best.

[Matt Farah]

That's a great way to do it.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. And I, it's been so long since I couldn't just like you know, make a phone call and get a car. But I, I did find a way like before I was doing this professionally. I always. And it was just through like meeting people and like just talking my way in like oh yeah, I'd love to drive your C5Z06 or whatever it was. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

I mean if you're, if you're charismatic enough to make those kind of friends. Starting from zero.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. Good for you.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, that's a way. But if you want to just you know, really learn and, and just spend a few hundred bucks.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

That way.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Or just you know, just listen to us. We know what we're talking about.

[Matt Farah]

That too. Avenged Lotus Sevenfold. Pretty good. Clarkson recently wrote in his GT3 touring review, which I just read in the the Times that he was obligated to hate the 911 because May and Hammond loved it so much. Are there cars you don't like mostly because your friends all like them? No, not really.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I, my friends, no, my friends have pretty good tasting cars. I remember when I got into this business though, I was like. And Jethro, we had the same conversation. I was sort of like went out of my way to find things about 911s I didn't like because I Was so bored of reading how a 911 is perfect. You know, kind of M3s kind of fell into that a little bit. M5. But you know, driving this Touring is like, it's the perfect car. It's annoying, but it's just like, it's so very good. It's so good. It's just so good. I mean, that's why I'm going crazy about the price. There's nothing else bad to say about it.

[Zach]

I mean, we hate the SF90 because you like it.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, yeah, yeah. I heard it was yes. And I, and you, and you hate the GTD because I like it it. And I don't hate it.

[Matt Farah]

I don't hate the gdd. I think the GTD is very cool. I just, I just a good example of a car that, that where I changed my opinion of it when it was placed into a greater context.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's, it's funny again, I, I, I thought nothing of it until I drove it like basically back to back with the ZR1X and I was like, this is the greatest car in the world,

[Matt Farah]

so go buy a C4ZR1. That's the username. And also good consumer advice. Starting the venture down a path of a business around collector cars. Can you talk about the pitfalls of mixing hobbies and business?

[Johnny Lieberman]

You're the expert there.

[Matt Farah]

I mean, dude, we talked about, you know, they'll. Some people will jokingly say if you do what you love, you never work a day in your life. And like that it is not true at all.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I got five articles I'm late on. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Hannah got me this tea towel that is more accurate that says if you do what you love, you never work a day in your life. And never work a day in your life is crossed out. And instead it says work extremely hard all the time with no separation or boundaries. And also take everything extremely personally. And that is much more accurate to actually how it goes.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's for you.

[Matt Farah]

That's for me. But I have like problems. I'm like a mental case. So I, you know, that's a different story.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I'm lucky that I don't. I mean, I get a lot of hate comment. Like, in fact you scrolled past some where people are making fun of me and I first it's just water off my back. Somehow I learned like, I don't give a shit. I don't.

[Matt Farah]

Well, that's a nice thing to know.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

I mean, look, if it depends on the business, right? If the business is buying and selling cars, Then a pitfall of that business could be that every car is a dollar sign. And maybe you don't enjoy the cars as much. If the business is a service business, maybe you end up hating having to fucking serve these people. If your business is content creation, maybe you don't really realize what that type of business actually looks like. I don't know. They're asking for pitfalls. There's upside.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, there's great upsides. I've seen people fall into the. The influencer role. That's an easier way to do it, where you just say nice about cars, but then you find yourself saying really nice about terrible cars for money and you feel bad at the end of the day. And I know, I know people this has happened to.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And, you know, this is the 2026 thingy thingy. And it's got five seats and wheels and it's just like the Lucha is

[Johnny Lieberman]

a very considered design. Did you watch all those influencers of the launch?

[Zach]

There's a couple people that they call their content reviews. And it's not because there's nothing negative said about it. They're basically commercials.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I actually wrote an article about how you actually need car journalists because of the viral videos for the Luce, where almost every single influencer, they all said, the design, the exterior design, it's very considered. And then they got right into the inside and. And like, that was the talking point they gave him.

[Matt Farah]

You think that's from the press release?

[Johnny Lieberman]

They all did workshops with, like, Ginny, I've. And he was sitting there going, like, we considered everything. We considered the aerodynamics. And, you know, for an ev, it has to look like this because aerodynamics are the most important thing, efficiency. And it's like, no, no, you chose bro to make it look like that.

[Matt Farah]

I mean, he isn't like, you're not wrong. Aerodynamics are very important when it comes to. But there's a lot of ways to make a car aerodynamic. You're still Ferrari, you're expected to stop.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I mean, I've told this story probably on the show five times, but when the Senna was being shown at Geneva, I was with McLaren and we drove from Woking down to Geneva, right, to look at the Senna. And the picture leaked. No one can believe it was that terrible looking. And we saw it early, before the actual release, and I had a picture on my phone and it was just awful. We were drunk at the Intercontinental News Geneva, and Nico McBrain, the drummer from Iron Maiden, walks in with his buddy Ian Callum. Sir Ian Callum, right yeah. And, you know, he was, he'd had a few drinks, and I'm, I'm just looking at this, like, horrible senna on my phone and I'm yelling at all the McLaren guys, including, God, what's his name?

[Zach]

Robert.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, my God. He was the head of design, designed the senna.

[Zach]

Okay.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And he's six. Six and used to be a boxer. He could, like, literally pound me to death. And, and Ian walks over, he looks at my phone and he's just listening, listening. He goes, it didn't have to look that way.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

You chose to make it look that way. Didn't have to. And that always will stick with me. Yeah. Like the luche. You could make an aerodynamic car that does. In fact, I would argue the, the lucid air, which is a gorgeous car, is more aerodynamic than the Lucha is. Yeah, it's 0.2. Yeah, I don't think you can with tires. I don't think you can go lower than that. And the Mercedes EQS is also 0.2. Looks very bad.

[Zach]

Yes.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. What was that crazy Mercedes EQXX thing? But that's, that's like a long tail concept sort of deal. Yes.

[Johnny Lieberman]

You could do a long tail, you could do a long tail. You know, you could do stuff like that.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, it doesn't have to.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Doesn't have to. Yeah. You chose. It's a consideration.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, it's very. Consider.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Anyways. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

So the doping influencer, Christian says, what percent chance the Genesis Magma gets made and keeps that design very high? Decent. I would say B plus decent, though.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I didn't. Could you pull it up, Zach? I, I didn't take a huge long look at it.

[Matt Farah]

I think it's pretty good looking, nice looking car.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I, I, I just meant like, does it, you know, does it not have rearview mirrors? Is it on 25?

[Matt Farah]

Does it, does it have mirrors?

[Zach]

Got side mirrors?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Let's see. Taylor Swift.

[Matt Farah]

That looks like a race car.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's production intent.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, that looks like a race car there. Oh, that's the convertible.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, that's it.

[Zach]

That's it.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Go to the hard side. Side.

[Zach]

Thumbnail. Misled me.

[Matt Farah]

I thought that that looks like a race car. That's a GT3 version of it.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Well, yeah. Ah, there it is.

[Matt Farah]

There's a lot, a lot I like here. I see some Koenigsegg influence. I see some Ferrari 296 in the rear three quarter.

[Zach]

This is a little Porsche 918.

[Matt Farah]

A little, a little, a little Porsche 904, maybe even.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Totally.

[Matt Farah]

But look, look here's that's a hot looking car.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I can't. I can't see the mirrors but let's just assume you can put real mirrors on there. Those are production wheels. It's got normal mirrors.

[Matt Farah]

It's got regular mirrors, regular brakes, door handles.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I mean a hole for gasoline, brake lights.

[Zach]

Very good.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, this is production.

[Matt Farah]

That's a nice. That's a real enough looking story going

[Zach]

around about this car is a bunch of people are speculating that it's a C8 Corvette underneath because of the tire has like a TPC spec which the C8s have.

[Matt Farah]

Interesting.

[Zach]

And people like were lining up you know picture over picture and seeing the hard points.

[Matt Farah]

But were the hard points supposedly the same? According to the Internet.

[Zach]

And then the interior has. But I was wondering if that was the old one.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That was not this one.

[Zach]

That was the older one that people were talking about.

[Matt Farah]

I read a thing where they had built a stripped down ca.

[Zach]

That's what I thought might be missing. It's a rolling proto. It's not a prototype. It's like a concept car that might be rolling on a C8 but it's not.

[Johnny Lieberman]

This one just came out last week. There was one from a year orange one from before. There was the.

[Zach]

Yeah that's a lot of people I saw here. I'll find. I don't know.

[Matt Farah]

This looks like pretty legit to me.

[Zach]

You.

[Johnny Lieberman]

You nailed it with the Koenigsegg like the size of the cabin. You know what I mean? The size of the door is not Corvette. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

I don't think just the tires themselves is a giveaway cuz they could have just bought whatever tire was going to work for their.

[Johnny Lieberman]

By the way they had. They probably. I mean honestly they probably had a Corvette they evaluating and they're like. They're like are those 20 and 21 stacks bag throw them on and then Internet nerds. Oh I found the secret.

[Matt Farah]

But this is a very nice looking car. I mean I certainly hope they make it. I think it's got some Valkyrie, some koenigseggs super cool McLaren Elva maybe in that side door.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh all kinds of good stuff. I mean I love like the. The pods for the you know the fenders and the hips. Yeah you could say that the tailpipes are kind of Corvette but also all mid engine cars sort of have pipes that have to exit immediately out of the hip headers.

[Zach]

I mean I think this is stunning.

[Matt Farah]

Pretty cool looking.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

I wish.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I wish it were better lit photos

[Matt Farah]

but the dimness is a. Is a Feature. Not a bug here I think. But yeah, it's great. Oh hell, please make it like that. A quilted one piece console. And dash

[Zach]

the article I found a couple months ago about the orange. Yeah but if this was a C8 underneath I would be so happy because this is what I wish to see it look.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Oh, you spikered up a C8 spiker

[Johnny Lieberman]

meets like a leather daddy.

[Matt Farah]

That looks great.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Is that a manual? No, no, it's okay.

[Matt Farah]

It's a fraud of Mars manual but it's okay.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's fine. It's okay, that's fine.

[Matt Farah]

I'm down with this. I'm fully down with this.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Almost no screens. Little tiny minimal.

[Matt Farah]

Minimal screen.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Okay.

[Matt Farah]

This is good.

[Zach]

What a good looking car.

[Matt Farah]

Yes.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I mean Genesis should do this. It makes all the sense in the world, right? Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

This is a cool looking car. Would with it.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, yeah yeah. Love it. I didn't realize I, I just assumed it wouldn't have mirrors and have wheels and this is production.

[Matt Farah]

Looks pretty, pretty real to me. Yeah. Let's see. Oh wait, hang on. Keep going, keep going, keep it going. We don't need a bunch of this. Keep it going, keep it going, keep going. Don't AMG whiz on the electric fence. What cars or other stuff would, would you like to film or cover? But don't because it would be SEO death so much Chinese cars.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, I mean look, I, I, I kind of pigeonholed myself by just doing what I've been doing for the last 20 years on my YouTube channel and like just new cars. Every time I deviate from like a brand new car. I did a, I did a Diablo GT. They made 80. It's the greatest car ever made. There's literally like it was a GT3 a year before the GT3. Yeah, like crickets curated car. That's the same car.

[Matt Farah]

Instant.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh no, no, John. It was a John's or the one they bought.

[Matt Farah]

The orange one.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Okay. No, no, it was the orange one.

[Matt Farah]

But it was death. It was, they got eight. Nobody gave a greatest car in the world.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Right?

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

So old cars, fun things we do,

[Matt Farah]

the road trips, all the off road stuff. All cars go to heaven. Like anything thing we put the littlest bit of effort into being entertaining is death.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I, I, for some reason off road stuff is okay as long as it's new. If it's new and off road that's fine. But yeah, I, I, I did a food one I did with me and sang did best pastrami in LA and like it was so Much fun. And like no one watched. It was like a thousand views or something.

[Zach]

Yeah, that makes sense. You've done enough videos where your channel is like, it's cars. So if people don't click on a food thing and then it just kills.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, it just, you know, it's just. I, I, I. This is when I was like, what am I going to do with this channel? I'm like, well, the only things that have ever worked have been like new Porsches. Like that. People seem to like that. Or like if I do a Rivian anything, they like that. If I do, people will go to.

[Matt Farah]

There's. It's so fragmented that people go to different people for different. Yeah, we're so disproportional. Someone, some, Someone somewhere was trying to pitch me their analytical tool for the podcast and was like, your podcast is the most. Is the biggest destination in America for port for the Porsche 911. Like it just did. And I was like, okay, okay. You know, just happened. Just so happened.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Sure. So this is why we wanted to hate them.

[Matt Farah]

Let's see. Two more cruised along at half speed. And then money shifted gears. What features make a car unrepairable by garage. Garage mechanics lock DCU's, software stuff.

[Johnny Lieberman]

You know you need the dealer computer, right, to repair.

[Zach]

Yeah, always pay attention to that when it comes up. It comes up every year. They're trying to make gatekeep, you know, new cars from being repaired by independent shops. And dealerships want that because they want the service revenue.

[Matt Farah]

So custom tools, like cars that require like my box required a special tool set the dealers had that not even every dealer could buy or wanted to buy to work on my box. Stuff like that. Like carbon fiber. Dude, my Porsche, like my Spider, like you can't do anything in that car unless you have a lift because all the under trays have to come out and like. Yeah, like nobody would go through the headache of like Jack standing this car and under tray. All that just to change the fucking oil. Like it's not even worth it.

[Zach]

A lot of cases now it's the computing power needed for diagnostics. It's not even the ECU thing. It's way before that. Just plugging it in and trying to get the right data to know what's wrong with. With one of the many 2000 sensors is hard and expensive.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I think like aluminum body panels and carbon fiber body panels is just becomes that's a real specialty. Like if you have to like, you know, replace a carbon door, that's like, see Lotus Yeah, it's just hard to do. It's just really hard to do.

[Matt Farah]

Wrapping it up with the ham sandwich. Going to Barrett Jackson in Columbus as a birthday gift to my dad. Should we get the bidders pass? Even if we don't plan on bidding, there's extra perks.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yes.

[Matt Farah]

I'm a firm believer. Believer in never go to an auction without a bidder's pass. You never fucking know if the bidders

[Johnny Lieberman]

pass is what I'm thinking it is. And that's where you can just climb on stage and stand there. That's the way to do. That's the only way to do Bear Jackson. It's really fun.

[Matt Farah]

And I think there may be drinks you might get. When I went to Barrett Jackson in Scottsdale.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's the one.

[Matt Farah]

And I got the biggie.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's the one.

[Matt Farah]

And I bought a ticket. I got a bidders pass and a ticket. They gave me 10 drink tickets.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, they want you hammered. Oh, yeah. No, no, no. How else are you gonna make the decision to buy the $300,000 Chevelle?

[Zach]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, that's. That's what they. Yeah, they love that.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. I'd be buying garbage.

[Zach]

I. Yeah. For 500. Sure.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Barrett is. I was actually telling someone about this. I. I've done so many weird things at Barrett. I have no idea why. Because that's not my demo.

[Matt Farah]

I bought sheets there.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

In the fucking sideshow.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I did the live broadcast for two days with Magnante. I faked that. Yeah. But I one time was signing autographs there. Like motor trend. Remember Motor trend used to run Barrett? And they're like, okay, you're gonna go. Because you might have to be on stage again, but while you're there, sign autographs. And there's all these people that were like, getting my autograph and like. And you are. And I'm with like, you know, like, I forget who it was, but, you

[Matt Farah]

know Finnegan, Roadkill guy.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, whatever.

[Zach]

Collecting autographs as quick as they.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Guy standing next to. I can't remember who I was with, like Mante or Finnegan or whatever, but it was. I had to stand there for like two days and sign autographs in Scottsdale

[Matt Farah]

for people that had no idea.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Literally none. No one. No one knew me. And it was great because there'd be like one person waiting for me because they were just drunk enough to like, oh, just stand here and get an autograph and like, 50 deep for whoever.

[Matt Farah]

There's a guy signing autographs. It must be somebody.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

They wouldn't just Let anybody sign these posters.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Turns out they did. But I was paid to stand there.

[Matt Farah]

That's crazy. Corporate gig.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It was. It was the way to do it.

[Matt Farah]

That's our show, folks. Thanks for joining us on this adventure tonight. Johnny Driving with Johnny on YouTube. You know the deal.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And on the 20th of June, my Mercedes VLE review goes live.

[Matt Farah]

Be waiting for that live drop.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Hey, I'm just letting you know.

[Matt Farah]

I'm just letting you, baby.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

What do we have going on, Zach? We don't have. Do we have anything to promote right now? Not today. Go enter to win our 20, 25911 Turbo S. Yep. People. That video that we made, like, the six people that watched it, really enjoyed it.

[Zach]

Right?

[Matt Farah]

I got a very. A couple of.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I think I watched it.

[Matt Farah]

It wasn't. It was a good video, but it was good. I watched that. But we, We. What we did get was a lot of entries into the contest. So that's. That's doing. That's doing.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Well, that thing hasn't been auctioned off yet or.

[Matt Farah]

The game ends August 20th.

[Zach]

You know what? 25,000 views for a hiking video.

[Matt Farah]

That's surprising. That's surprising.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Take that.

[Matt Farah]

But we're going to do a couple more videos with that car that's coming. But go get your entries in. And I've also.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's.

[Matt Farah]

It's gone well enough so far that I'm in chats with them about doing another one for next year. And maybe we had an idea where we would give away two cars, a matching set of cars to one winner.

[Zach]

Whoa.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Okay, so, like, it would be the same car or like an SUV and a sports car done up in the same style.

[Matt Farah]

An old car and a new car with familial connections to each other.

[Zach]

Old Camaro. New Camaro.

[Matt Farah]

Yes.

[Zach]

Or something similar.

[Matt Farah]

Yes. Maybe Camaros. Definitely Camaros.

[Zach]

Dude, I want a version Camaro so bad. That's why I threw it out there.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's. I mean, they're beautiful. It's the best design from that. That era.

[Matt Farah]

We're not doing Camaros.

[Johnny Lieberman]

You're not doing Camaros?

[Matt Farah]

No, probably not.

[Zach]

Come on. We gatewayed you into muscle cars, man. With. Now imagine if it sounded good but drove worse. It was made poorly.

[Matt Farah]

I would be down for, like, a crazy IROC build if we had the, like the. The PA. If we were doing like a full Detroit speed IROC build with like an LT4 and a full chassis and like, all that. But, like, what are we doing over here?

[Johnny Lieberman]

We're not doing hasn't the Camaro been out of production for, like.

[Matt Farah]

I'm talking about an October Irock.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, but, I mean.

[Zach]

No, but you're right. The new one's also.

[Matt Farah]

No, no, no, we're not.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, we're not doing.

[Matt Farah]

Okay, breaking news.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Zach is doing Camaros.

[Matt Farah]

That's our show. We'll see you later. Good night.