Jonny Lieberman: Secret Diablo Story; AI Debate;Ferrari interiors

Summary

The Smoking Tire Podcast

Episode: Jonny Lieberman: Secret Diablo Story; AI Debate; Ferrari Interiors
Date: February 12, 2026
Hosts: Matt Farah, Zack Klapman
Guest: Jonny Lieberman

Episode Overview

This episode of The Smoking Tire brings together car journalist Jonny Lieberman with hosts Matt Farah and Zack Klapman for a lively, opinionated, and whiskey-infused discussion. It features deep dives into the design of the upcoming Ferrari EV interior, a fierce debate about AI’s impact on journalism and car enthusiasm, Jonny’s secret Diablo story, project car updates, and their usual blend of humor, inside stories, and auto industry hot takes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Catching Up: Life, Restaurants, and Whiskey

• [00:00 – 06:00]

  • Jonny brings rare, high-proof bourbon from Willett, dating to the early 2000s.
  • Talk of LA restaurant closures and the joys (and woes) of traffic, with on-brand banter about Matt taking his trainer to food spots.
  • Bourbon Tasting: They compare barrel numbers, proofs, and provenance, waxing poetic about color and flavor.

  Notable Quote:

  • "This is a bourbon-flavored bourbon." – Matt Farah [06:24]

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2. Ferrari’s New Electric Interior: Design Rant

• [06:34 – 13:35]

  • Jonny is unimpressed with the headline-grabbing Ferrari interior designed by Jony Ive and Marc Newson:
    • Says it looks more Apple or Honda than exotic Ferrari.
    • Critiques the simplicity, mass-market vibes, and screen-centric layout.
    • Argues that traditional Ferrari buyers want “a little drama, a little fire”—more bling, less minimalism.
    • Matt, being a big Marc Newson fan, somewhat defends the design, loving the steering wheel but also admitting it's perhaps not "Ferrari" enough.
    • Comparison with other interiors (F12, Purosangue) and commentary on Ferrari’s struggle to balance digital modernity with tactile, mechanical luxury.
  • Zack notes that renderings don’t always match real-life impressions and ponders how tactile the materials are.

  Memorable Moments:

  • "Simple can be good, but it just screams Apple industrial design… It's cool, but it's just not Ferrari." – Jonny Lieberman [08:51]
  • "Ferrari guys… want mechanical things… not an Apple Watch." – Jonny [11:00]

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3. Analog vs. Digital – The Ferrari Question

• [13:35 – 18:47]

  • Discussion on how much “analog” you can embed in an electric Ferrari before it feels forced or silly.
  • Matt points out the technical reality: "There is no speedometer cable output in this car."
  • They ponder depth-of-screen tricks vs real, mechanical touchpoints.
  • Jonny notes the oddity of high-end brands hiring luxury watchmakers and consumer designers for instrument panels, comparing Ferrari’s choice to Bugatti’s partnership with Jacob & Co.

  Notable Exchange:

  • "How do you sell an EV to a billionaire?" — Jonny
  • "Put a V16 in the back!" — Matt [19:32]

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4. Project Car Updates: The Secret Diablo Journey

• [32:44 – 40:59]

  • Matt’s Lamborghini Countach: After years in pieces, it’s finally at the right shop (Franco’s European Sports Cars) with an engine rebuilt by Top Motors in Italy. Plan is not to repaint—keep it scruffy to actually drive and enjoy.
    • New tires from Pirelli; choice between P Zero (classic look, modern compound) and P7.
    • Hopeful to drive by December 2026.
  • Jonny’s 914 Porsche: Interior is progressing, but timeline is as shaky as ever. Plans for a future video drag race with Matt once both cars are finally finished.

  Memorable:

  • "We're not gonna paint the car, which is good. Leave it scruffy. That way I can just beat the balls off it for 20 years." – Matt Farah [39:24]
  • "That is the most useless piece of leather in cars—under the seat rail for $5,000." – Jonny on Ferrari detailing [23:43]

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5. The Great AI Debate: Usefulness vs. Ethics

• [41:11 – 81:20+]

  • Jonny plugs “Bid Better” — an AI platform to analyze car auctions, predict values, calculate upcoming repairs, and guide buyers.
  • Matt launches a passionate, sustained critique of AI:
    • Objects on moral grounds, stressing that AIs are trained by scraping unpaid human content.
    • Fears AI will accelerate oligarchy, environmental destruction, and a hollowing-out of human curiosity and craftsmanship.
    • Distinguishes between Google’s old search model and the algorithmic, self-reinforcing, manipulative feeds of today.
    • Worries that car auctions will devolve into “AI agent vs. AI agent” with human nuance lost.
  • Jonny, slightly defensive, argues tools like Bid Better help non-experts avoid auction mistakes and make informed bids.
  • Zack takes a middle view, appreciating data aggregation while distrusting uses of AI that replace creative and entry-level jobs.
  • The debate expands to job displacement, environmental cost, moral tradeoffs, and the difference (or lack thereof) between Google, YouTube, and future AI platforms in terms of corporate power.

  Notable Quotes:

  • "I hate AI for moral reasons." – Matt Farah [41:40]
  • "It's auction bumper bowling. It's automatic rev matching." – Matt, on Bid Better’s role [55:23]
  • "We're just more accurate." – Jonny Lieberman [56:15]
  • "AI is allowing people to be even dumber." – Matt Farah [66:47]
  • "If you earn a billion dollars, you should get a trophy that says you’ve won capitalism." – Matt Farah [83:52]
  • "It's hard to be an enthusiast... and appreciate what engineers are doing..." – Matt Farah [135:45]
  • "My thing is the environmental part of AI is what’s evil." – Jonny Lieberman [79:34]

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6. Secret Diablo Story: The Chrysler Connection

• [86:47 – 96:44]

  • Jonny tells a never-before-published story about the Lamborghini Diablo’s design:
    • The Lamborghini Countach’s successor (the Diablo) was secretly designed in Michigan by Chrysler's design team after they acquired Lamborghini in 1987.
    • Italian designers (Gandini, et al.) were resisting change, so Americans built the tooling model and shipped it to Italy, making changes impossible.
    • Photos and sketches show odd design choices, including the infamous articulating key.
  • This story, revealed in Road Rat magazine, challenges the myth that the Diablo was a purely Italian masterpiece and credits unsung Detroit designers (with receipts!).

  Memorable Moment:

  • "These photos sat on a shelf in Tom Gale’s house since 1989." – Jonny Lieberman [95:53]

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7. Listener Q&A Highlights

• [97:02 – End (~142:35)]
  • Missed Concept Cars: Cadillac CL, Buick concept coupes, Nissan proto-cars, Maybach Exelero.
  • Best Street/Track Cars: Ferrari SF90 (F80 platform), Blackwing, McLaren 750S called out for all-around excellence.
  • The Analog Era: Disagreement on when the “driver’s era” ended: Matt hails early 2000s for balance, reliability, and vibes; Jonny argues newer cars are technically better in every metric, but lack some of the “classic” analog feel.
  • Enthusiast Car Advice:
    • Acura Integra Type S praised as a “slam dunk” daily driver over Civic Type R and GR Corolla for LA life.
    • "If I just wanted a car and I was an enthusiast—holy shit, does this slam dunk this thing." – Matt [121:45]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• "This is a bourbon-flavored bourbon." – Matt Farah [06:24]
• "Simple can be good, but it just screams Apple industrial design… It's cool, but it's just not Ferrari." – Jonny Lieberman [08:51]
• "Ferrari guys… want mechanical things… not an Apple Watch." – Jonny [11:00]
• "How do you sell an EV to a billionaire? Put a V16 in the back!" – Matt & Jonny [19:32]
• "We're not gonna paint the car, which is good. Leave it scruffy. That way I can just beat the balls off it for 20 years." – Matt Farah [39:24]
• "Auction bumper bowling. It's automatic rev matching." – Matt Farah [55:23]
• "AI is allowing people to be even dumber." – Matt Farah [66:47]
• "If you earn a billion dollars, you should get a trophy that says you’ve won capitalism." – Matt Farah [83:52]
• "These photos sat in a shelf in Tom Gale's house since 1989." – Jonny Lieberman [95:53]
• "It's hard to be an enthusiast... and appreciate what engineers are doing..." – Matt Farah [135:45]
• "My thing is—the environmental part of AI is what’s evil." – Jonny Lieberman [79:34]

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Detailed Segment Timestamps

• [00:00 – 06:00]: Restaurant talk, bourbon intro
• [06:34 – 13:35]: Ferrari electric interior debate
• [13:35 – 18:47]: Analog vs digital, design philosophy, customer insights
• [32:44 – 40:59]: Project car updates (Countach/914)
• [41:11 – 81:20+]: Bid Better AI discussion and the AI/oligarchy debate
• [86:47 – 96:44]: "Secret Diablo Story", Road Rat article insights
• [97:02 - 135:45+]: Listener Q&A (concept cars, analog eras, street/track cars), enthusiast advice
• [135:45 – end]: Hypocrisy of car enthusiasm, climate anxiety, concluding reflections

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Tone and Language

The episode maintains the familiar, irreverent, occasionally combative, and uncensored style fans expect—with deep expertise and personal anecdotes from all three hosts. Jonny’s disarming honesty (especially about his weight, AI skepticism, and industry secrets) plays perfectly off Matt’s passionate rants and Zack’s deadpan humor.

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Summary for the Uninitiated

If you missed this episode, you get a whiskey-soaked, energetic debate on car culture’s hardest questions—ranging from what makes a real Ferrari interior, to whether AI is destroying or democratizing car enthusiasm, to the unsung American hand in a legendary Italian supercar. You’ll also find out which modern enthusiast cars these experts would actually buy—and which old project cars might finally, finally move under their own power again.

Transcript

[Matt Farah]

What up, everybody? Welcome to the Smoking Tire Podcast. Matt Farah here, and today's episode is, as always, brought to you by off the Record. Look, we want you to be safe out there on the road, but the fact is you can be being safe and still get tickets. Those are not the same thing. And if you do, don't plead guilty. Get off the Record. Off the Record is a service that connects you with a qualified attorney in the jurisdiction where you got that ticket. They will fight it all the way, if need be, to keep those points off of your record, a valuable service to the community that they are providing. All you have to do is go to offtherecord.com TST, input some information about the ticket, where and when you got pulled over, et cetera, et cetera, and they go to work for you getting those points off of your record. You guys send me emails and DMs all the time about how off the Record is saving you out there on the road. Not to mention, I have personally witnessed it for myself over and over because I do a lot of miles. It's proportional, people. So go to offtherecord.comtst for 10% off all legal services booked through off the Record. Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Mr. Pibb Radio Hour.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Increased caffeine.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Increased cocaine. Hi, everybody. Johnny's here. And he's bribed us to talk about his auction thing by bringing us very expensive burgers.

[Zach]

We brought a cheap bourbon to him soon enough.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, let's hope.

[Matt Farah]

You know, I remember how I sent us down the restaurant thing before we hit record. I've been taking my trainer to good restaurants. Not, like, taking him, like, I've gotten him into, like, good flavor restaurants. And I've been taking him to your.

[Zach]

When Matt's wife is out of town.

[Matt Farah]

Yes.

[Zach]

Matt takes his trainer to fancy restaurants.

[Matt Farah]

He calls it the down low. The down Low.

[Johnny Lieberman]

You know what the down low is?

[Matt Farah]

Yes, that's the. But we've always been going to new restaurants.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yes, yes.

[Matt Farah]

And he'd never been to Musso and Frank's. And I was like, oh, well, what about, like, old Rest? So we're now going to alternate a new restaurant and then a restaurant that's like 80 years old.

[Johnny Lieberman]

You got to do it. Because what sucks about LA is that good restaurants close.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And like. Because, like, Connie and Ted's going out of business.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Like great legendary restaurants close. That happens everywhere. But.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, but like, I mean, Connie. Ted is amazing. You know, every review is glowing. They can't make money.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Just. It's killing me. But I'm really excited we're gonna do the Dunsmore. I'm working on that reservation. But the amount of traffic I sat in to fucking get here today, like I can't wait for you guys to.

[Matt Farah]

Drive basically to my house now.

[Zach]

You understand?

[Matt Farah]

Okay. I will go to that side occasionally.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I know, but I'm like so excited.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, it sucks. Well, you were in a dbx.

[Johnny Lieberman]

At least it was comfortable. I was very comfortable.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. I had that car over Christmas and it's a delight.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. It's like sitting inside of a Nike.

[Matt Farah]

But it is.

[Zach]

It's aggressive, as you so kindly said. People sitting in traffic to get to us, not our.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I'm going to publish that text right there. You fucking should.

[Matt Farah]

You should. The. What have you got? What have you got here?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Okay, so I was like, will it. We're doing a later show today.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

So we can quote, unquote, drink as you said. And so I said, all right. I happen to have these. Back in the day, Will it used to put their bourbons in these cardboard tubes. They stopped doing that. So this is probably like 2000. They stopped doing this in like 15 or so. I could look it up and anyone listening can look it up. So they've been open a while. But I happen to have three tubes of 13 year old bourbon. So that means it was distilled 13 years. So like early 2000. So it's probably like really good juice.

[Matt Farah]

Probably.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I could look it up. It's probably like from Stitzel Weller, Julian Van Winkle might have distilled it, something like that. So it's really good bourbon. Cool. They're basically.

[Matt Farah]

They're very near each other. Bottle number 1279. Bottle 1327. Bottle 14.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Barrel number.

[Matt Farah]

Sorry, excuse me, barrel number. Barrel number. Sorry, not bottle number.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And that could mean something. It could mean nothing. In other words, one could be from like across the street at Heaven Hill. One could be from somewhere else in Bardstown. One could be from somewhere else in Kentucky. They just, you know, each barrel gets numbered.

[Matt Farah]

Speaking of, do you remember the pre Fire Heaven Hill that I had? I gave it to my dad for his birthday this year.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, nice.

[Matt Farah]

And I brought it to South Carolina and I gave it to him. I told him the story and we drank it and it was very delicious.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Nice.

[Matt Farah]

It was extremely delicious with that tiny little bottle from those like experiments that dude sent us. And the pre fire Heaven Hill was very good.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. That's also the price on that is like.

[Matt Farah]

Well, it's zero now we drank it.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I can look up the price of these. Once they're open, the value goes to zero.

[Matt Farah]

Have these not been open?

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, they're open. Okay, I've had them open, but let's have a. Yeah, go, go.

[Matt Farah]

Well, yeah, this one is the highest percentage. Should we go high to low?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, no, I don't like to.

[Matt Farah]

I don't like.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I like to start low to high. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Low in this case is 119 proof.

[Johnny Lieberman]

So it's not 59 something, but it's.

[Matt Farah]

Got a great, like, caramelly color. Look at the. Look at the color of that. Hell, yeah. That's nice.

[Johnny Lieberman]

What's the barrel number? I'll look it up.

[Matt Farah]

Barrel number 1279.

[Johnny Lieberman]

1279.

[Matt Farah]

13 years.

[Zach]

Wait, but the percentage is. Does that say 59?

[Matt Farah]

59%. But I said 119 proof.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Right.

[Zach]

So it's still. This is strong.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, yeah. This was released in 2016. It was at the gift shop at Willett. So it came from Kentucky. It was 159 bottles released, and the estimated value is unknown.

[Matt Farah]

Unknown.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Unknown.

[Matt Farah]

No one has ever sold one.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's kind of what it means opened and drank. So I like that.

[Matt Farah]

That's like. That was like Pagani for a while. They wouldn't let anybody sell the cars publicly.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

Value.

[Johnny Lieberman]

All right, let's go.

[Matt Farah]

I get that from here. Oh, baby, that's just. That smells fuego.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Is my, my, my. All right, let's do some radio. This is a bourbon flavored bourbon.

[Matt Farah]

Finish this, we start yelling at each other. Here we go. Boy. There's like. Okay. There's things happening. We haven't.

[Zach]

Let's.

[Matt Farah]

Let's push these aside. You don't need a wall of bo. There's the Ferrari interior.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

The Luche interior.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I have a lot to say about that.

[Matt Farah]

Do you?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Should we wait till you get a little drunky?

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, I've been. I'm ranting about it already in writing form.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, okay.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

You're not into it.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Killer Honda interior. What the fuck's it got to do with a Ferrari?

[Matt Farah]

I think you. Maybe you have to touch it. Maybe you have to touch it. Is that what I'm thinking? There are some things. This steering wheel I am kind of into.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I love the steering wheel on a Honda. I don't. I just. I don't know.

[Zach]

I think it'll look cool in metal.

[Matt Farah]

So, like, Mark Newson, you know, like, I've never seen him because he worked with Jony. I've to. To do this. I'm Like I'm a fucking Mark Newson freak. Yeah, I love Mark Newson.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Mark Newson's great.

[Matt Farah]

Philip is a big Mark Newson fan too and has a couple of his like weird Ford concept cars and stuff.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Well, those are amazing.

[Matt Farah]

But.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But again, what, What? Those weren't Ferraris. No, no. Well, that's where I was.

[Matt Farah]

I was, I was backing up to get back to the fact that, that this dude has never done an exotic car. Yeah, but the. But in the quotes that I saw from them, it was pretty much like the screens and like the carbon and are like kind of like played out. So we need to like go back to. Go back to tactile. But obviously it's an electric car, so they do still have to sort of be screens. So apparently the tac needle is real. But those are three screen gauge pods that are. And then the back is a screen too. The pods are rested in another screen. So it's like depth of screen. Yeah, that's a. I don't hate it.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Dude.

[Matt Farah]

I have to tell you, Ferrari's current system really, at all.

[Zach]

You think this is a rendering? So in real life how? Like. Cause right now it looks like to me there's three gauges. It looks like there's three real gauges stuck to an iPad. And I don't love that look. And I think in real life, how dark, how black can that get? But the steering wheel design is a lot of. What is the ikopod? It's a lot of that. And I think that wheel with that manettino and stuff would look rad on a modern Ferrari, like on a gas powered one.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But there's a simplicity to it, which again, like, you know, simple can be good, but it just screams Apple industrial design. And again, for a mass market consumer product like a Honda, you can have great design like this. But I just think for a Ferrari it's missing an X factor. Especially that, like that like shortwave radio looking center screen. If you go to the, you know the one.

[Matt Farah]

The center screen I think is less successful to me than the gauge cluster and steering wheel, which I like a lot.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Like the shifter and everything. It's just again, it's like, it's cool. Yeah. Like if I said, hey, the new.

[Matt Farah]

Honda beat and sure, this is not.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Good, that screen handle and then even like the vents and stuff, like it's again, it's not bad, it's just not Ferrari. And also, like, know your customers, like, I hang out with a lot of Ferrari owners and they all have like a big fat Rolex, you know what I mean? Like they like a little flash. Sure. Well, I unflash.

[Matt Farah]

Do you know anybody who's bought a purosangue though?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Do I know?

[Matt Farah]

I think the bigger question is like who is buying the electric Ferrari across.

[Johnny Lieberman]

My mind that's looking at this, that's.

[Matt Farah]

Like I'm not even sure want to.

[Zach]

Buy the cool next gas powered Ferrari. That's best to buy it.

[Matt Farah]

But yeah, like it's a key. It's the allocation key to me. But like could be.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, sure, sure.

[Matt Farah]

I think the, the successful bit is the bit around the steering wheel and I think the rest of it does not really work for me.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Love the steering wheel again, but not like, like love the steering wheel but it's also like you're gonna simplify but then you're gonna keep all the complicated. I don't know.

[Matt Farah]

They should have put. Don't you think they should have put holes in the spokes of the steering wheel? They should have put rally holes in the spokes though.

[Zach]

That would have been a good stuff.

[Matt Farah]

There's still time, Mark. Yeah, come on.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, but yeah, I mean just the vents are. It's, it's, it's just. I get it. I understand what jony. I've does. I get it. Like that's great. Yeah. You know this is wow, what a great designed for a mass product. But like this is an iWatch, whatever it's called Apple Watch type thing. And like most Ferrari dudes, I know one guy who has his aroma and he has an Apple watch. But all the ones I know don't, they have real big blingy things and they like a little drama, a little fire.

[Matt Farah]

So like how. Okay, one, I admit that my judgment of this might be clouded by my Mark Newsom fandom. And so I'm, I'm like cool. A fucking Mark Newson interior. I'm not like, I'm not going like is that exotic enough for Ferrari? Because to me that's like, that's awesome. Like I've been, I've been waiting for something like that and so it doesn't bother me whether or not this is Ferrari. Like because I really love this design aesthetic. Gotcha. Like I like it on the ikopods. I've liked it in other words cars and other consumer products.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And again, the Mark Newsom Fords are sick. They're amazing. They're absolutely amazing. But again it was a mass market consumer good.

[Matt Farah]

It was the idea.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I'm just looking at this and like, you know, again it's A shortwave radio transmitter. It's like the plainest four vents you could do. I like that. It's metal. Sure. Who doesn't like metal? But I don't know. I'm just. Again, this is the new design direction for Buick or Audi. Like, oh, yeah, that's nice.

[Matt Farah]

I liked. Okay. The other thing that this image does not show that I thought is successful is the ceiling pod, the ceiling controller, which has the, like, the aircraft, like, launch button. Super cool. I liked that. Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Again, I need to see it that one in context. I like the orange. But then just as successful as that was, like, the shifter thingy was like, come on, guys, look.

[Zach]

This is just an F12 interior that I wanted to look at for comparison.

[Matt Farah]

And F12 is not bad.

[Zach]

Free agency. No, it's not bad.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's a pretty look up the Amalfi interior, though. Amalfi is the newest Ferrari or the 849 interior. I think they're the same interior, but, like, they're pretty nice, you know, like.

[Matt Farah]

The Malfi interior, I think it's not bad. But it is. It's. Now that you look at this, compared to the other one, this feels very busy.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, but remember, this is the one where it's like, everyone's like, we need the buttons back. So they put their buttons back.

[Matt Farah]

No, no, that's like, yeah, yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No.

[Matt Farah]

And, like, respect for that.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Like, yeah, respect.

[Zach]

It also depends on the color choices for this. Like, you know, this.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, yeah.

[Zach]

Bright orange. Red on gray hops out.

[Johnny Lieberman]

If you click back. There was one with like, an orange leather interior.

[Matt Farah]

So here's the question, Johnny. You know, okay, Ferrari guys have big Rolexes. They want mechanical things. Okay, fine. People aren't really looking for or asking for an electric Ferrari. Okay, fine. Given that they've decided to make one anyway, what level of analog can you make an interior in an electric Ferrari? Before it starts to seem incredibly silly, folks gotta take a quick break because support is coming in hot from factor. The days are cold, the goals are big, and there is no time to come cook. Right Factor makes healthy eating easy with fully prepped meals designed by dietitians and crafted by chefs so you can eat well without the planning or the cooking. I have been talking about this for a while, and it's so easy. I start my day really early, right? And I have a really big morning that sometimes goes into the lunch hour. I work what you call east coast hours, but from the west Coast. But what happens? I forget to eat, I forget to plan for lunch. And so by the time I get hungry, I'm left finding unhealthy options or just whatever's closest or being too hungry and eating too much and being full for the second half of the day. Whereas when I've had factor supporting us and I got the factor in the fridge, I eat much more balanced. There's functional ingredients, lean proteins, veggies, whole foods. There's no refined sugars, there's no refined seed oils or sweeteners. And there' meals that help me eat the way I'm supposed to be eating for my fitness goals. Right. They have a lot of options. There's 100 rotating weekly meals to keep things fresh with high protein, calorie, smart Mediterranean GLP1 support and ready to eat salads. And then there's the muscle pro collection supporting strength and recovery. The food's always fresh. It's ready in the microwave in about two minutes. There's no prep, no stress. And the second you're like, oh, it's coming up on lunchtime, boom, healthy food is there for you. And then that really does help you meet those goals. Does for me. Anyway, head over to FactorMeals.com Tire50OFF. Man, they are getting complicated with these codes. Are you ready? FactorMeals.com Tire 50 off. It's the number 50 and then use code 50 off again with the number 50 to get 50% off and free breakfast for a year. Eat like a pro this month with Factor new subscribers only. Varies by plan. One free breakfast item per box for a year while subscription is active. One more time. Factor meals.com tire50 off and code tire50 off. Thank you to Factor for supporting us this week. Back to the show. What level of analog can you make an interior in an electric Ferrari before it starts to seem incredibly silly? So I think they have a very tough job dancing of going. Yeah, we gotta get away from touch screens. Touchscreens suck, haptics suck. But also, this is a purely digital product and we have really no choice. There is no speedometer cable output in this car. Like, you know, what are you gonna do? Weird spot.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Because I go back, you get like.

[Matt Farah]

The real photos, Zach. These renderings I think are like.

[Johnny Lieberman]

There were real photos.

[Matt Farah]

Like. Yeah, people went to a press launch for the photos. For the. No, for the. For the. To stand in a. Yeah. In a mock up that. See, see, here's the thing. That photo, Zach, which is we're now, instead of looking straight on, we're looking at it from a side three quarter. I think it gets better, actually.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I was just Depth. I think it does get better before it loads.

[Matt Farah]

Like, you don't think that's better from the side profile?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Again, it's good. It's just not screaming Ferrari. It's like, it's like, who put the Ferrari sticker on the simulator?

[Matt Farah]

Dude, I tell you what, if I could get that as a sim, that would be sick. Great.

[Zach]

You'll be able to in moments.

[Matt Farah]

You'll be able to get it on like next week.

[Zach]

This is one screen away. We're having a scene. Oh, my God. I want to go. These are real photos.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, these are real photos. Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Keep going down. You're close.

[Matt Farah]

I gotta say, I bet you, I bet you that steering wheel is going to feel great in your hand. I bet it's going to feel a.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Lot of steering wheels feel great in your hand. I'm just going to say they're in a weird spot though. They're getting a watch designer in to do this. Bugatti got Jacob and Co to do their instruments. Like it's. The high end is in a weird spot. And again, here's what's funny too. The Ferrari EV is an EV. The new Bugatti is an EV. People like, oh, it's got a V16. It does have a V16 shoved into the back of a three motor electric car. That makes, you know, it's both.

[Matt Farah]

I mean, it has everything.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It is. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Matt Farah]

But that is like, look, if you're gonna, if you're gonna go, Jacob, that is the. This is the success.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Name it.

[Matt Farah]

After a while, watching the rich people.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Buy, I know what's the one complication that doesn't do anything?

[Matt Farah]

You know what? That's so funny. Yeah. The most useless complication possible.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's only good for wall clocks. It does nothing for a wristwatch.

[Matt Farah]

But it's really like, I mean that. It's so smart of them though.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, that's.

[Matt Farah]

It's. Know your customer and go, we're gonna make, we're gonna make a hybrid and it's gonna have a gear driven.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Like.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

And it's just, you're just gonna see, you're gonna run into. Because you're gonna be looking at the gears moving in the gauges like. But again, how do you fucking hard, dude.

[Johnny Lieberman]

How do you sell an EV to a billionaire like that? Put a V16 in the back of it. Because again, you. It. I've seen the body and whites of the Navara and the Tourbillon. It's the same car. It's just. They took out one motor and you know, it's, it's.

[Zach]

And this is. How do you sell an EV to a millionaire as you.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, and there is something like, like, you know, a little bit like, like. Oh, those. I like the way those gauges look. But they look instruments, you know what I mean? Like they're not classic car gauges. Like that looks like. I did agree.

[Zach]

I think they. I think having a G force counter is very stupid in general.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I didn't mean the actual like, I.

[Zach]

Think this looks a lot like like 348.

[Matt Farah]

That reminds me of a little 90s.

[Zach]

It's a little bit 90s and it's.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Just clean and legible, which again is good.

[Zach]

This is definitely not my favorite style of gauge. I totally agree.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I mean but again, I was driving a 2 Series M2Cs and like I still don't know how that tack is supposed to indicate. I don't know what it's like what it's backwards.

[Matt Farah]

It is.

[Zach]

Yeah. This is weird.

[Matt Farah]

So the center console, it's just witty. It's basically win. That's a win. That's a Wham deck.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But see this? It's like, it's like it's a Geiger counter.

[Matt Farah]

So again, we're now looking at the center screen which from this angle, which is we're looking kind of down it from above, almost where the rear view mirror would be. You've got a bunch of these kind of nice looking toggles and real buttons and stuff. I'm not sure about the grab handle.

[Zach]

Well, the handle so you can turn it towards your.

[Johnny Lieberman]

The driver.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, that's it.

[Zach]

Oh really? I think that looks weird again.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It just doesn't look Ferrari. It's like this would be nice on like there's a new electric jeep.

[Zach]

Ah yes.

[Matt Farah]

That is a very. That is a four by E feature.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

No, no, four by E is then when you, you pull handle and it becomes a table to eat lunch on.

[Johnny Lieberman]

You do lines off the cable.

[Matt Farah]

Here's your toggle.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

See I think these toggles for the climate control look great. I mean, I like that.

[Johnny Lieberman]

They're fine. They look like organ stops, you know.

[Matt Farah]

Dude, have you tried to put the heated seats on in a fucking Piro song way? My kingdom for a toggle like that.

[Johnny Lieberman]

In my life. I put heated seats on twice.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, you tough boy.

[Johnny Lieberman]

You've never used heated. I just, I know, I just sweat. I put on AC seats every time I drive anywhere. Yeah, noted. Oh yeah, yeah. But one time I was 40 below. I put a heated seat on it. That was okay. But yeah, anyhow, I don't know. I like to see the rest of the car like the, you know, anything.

[Matt Farah]

No, of course you want to see the rest of the car and you want to drive it and, you know, whatever. But how. How so you know a company that is known for engines. How do you differentiate that?

[Johnny Lieberman]

I just don't know if this is. I just don't know if this is it. Again. I just feel it's like, it's a nice design and also like, I like those two guys. Is this their greatest work ever? It's kind of. This is what you. If I said, you know, hey, you're gonna see like a new Johnny Ivey car interior. Like, here it is.

[Matt Farah]

I mean, look, their greatest work ever is the Ikopod. Hemipod, circa 1998. Ikopod's incredible.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I'm.

[Matt Farah]

That is the.

[Zach]

Is your point that this is too close a step from those things and you go, okay, they didn't really stretch.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Like, remember the Apple car? You know that was going to happen. Like, if this is the Apple car interior, it's like, oh, yeah.

[Matt Farah]

I wouldn't be surprised if there's elements of the actual Apple car.

[Johnny Lieberman]

The statute of limitations, the non compete clause. Five years for sure. For sure.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

So that's all. Again, not bad. I'm just like, maybe it was more exotic.

[Matt Farah]

Maybe when there's a car around it, maybe that helps.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. Open to it. I just like, I was like. And there's. I know there's something. I don't know.

[Matt Farah]

The most recent Ferrari I drove, which was the 12C you drove it to.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

I mean, it's a rad car. Like, obviously it's a sick car, but it's not. It's not the most intuitive to do really, like, anything. And, and, And I, for one, very much enjoy driving it, but welcome a change when it comes to how you control basic function.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I have no problem with that. I'm just saying there was a luxury car vibe to the 12C that I was like, ooh, this is a nice. For instance, the one I had had a leather swath under the seat. The most useless piece of leather in cars.

[Matt Farah]

That's pretty funny.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Instead of just having a carpet below the seat rail, there was leather. It was a $5,000 option. And I'm like, this. I like.

[Matt Farah]

So here's something I don't like when a. And this is not just Ferrari. My Porsche has this and other things. I don't like a haptic or a touch screen Button that activates something mechanical. I want a real switch for something mechanical, like so to stiffen my shocks, I want to hit a real button or to activate nose lift. I want to hit a button, not. Not poke a touchscreen. You know what I mean?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Farah]

So like, I was like a little bit offended by touchscreen nose lift in the 12 seat.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. I will say that was not in a good spot. That's great. That was not great. No, it is nice. It was always there. They did a good job of like. I thought it would go away because like, oh, yeah, headlights on a Maserati, they go away. And I was one time and I didn't know they were in the touchscreen. And I'm driving and everyone on the freeway is like honking at me and I'm like, you know, where's headlights?

[Matt Farah]

They're to the left.

[Johnny Lieberman]

They've been to the left on every single car I've ever fucking driven. And I'm like, I don't know how to turn the headlights on. And then I pulled over and they were in the touchscreen in the center.

[Matt Farah]

Touch.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Center screen.

[Matt Farah]

Crazy.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And it's like that. I mean, it saves. First of all, why are you saving money on a Maserati? Second of all, that. How much does that save? Not much.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, that's nuts.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Like, light switches must be amortized by now, like across the Fiat group.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, that's crazy. It was.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I was like, what? And I'm like looking on the stock and looking everywhere. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

So, like, stuff like that needs to be a real button. Yeah. So I like, I like that. The toggle. Ification.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Bring on the fucking metal toggles everywhere. I like ineos. Give me that, give me that. Shit.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's my next car purchase. Yeah. Yeah. I'm in love with ineos.

[Matt Farah]

We talked about this briefly.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Briefly.

[Matt Farah]

But did we really talk about the ADAs that can't be turned off?

[Zach]

Well, but we learned that some of the years you can turn off.

[Matt Farah]

But no, he's talking about the new one.

[Johnny Lieberman]

The new one you can turn off. Well, the old one was so insane. I don't know if you remember the old one, but the beeping. Also the volume of the beeping was comical.

[Matt Farah]

Well, the new one is very bad in the adas department, which I had the red station wire.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, no, but which adas function like.

[Matt Farah]

The lane keep assist was crazy.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And like.

[Matt Farah]

And it turns back on every time you restart the car. You have to go into the.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yes, you do. But okay.

[Matt Farah]

Yes, but what?

[Johnny Lieberman]

They got rid of it's such an improvement. It had the European speed warning.

[Matt Farah]

No, it still has that.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But you turn it off once it's gone forever. You don't have to.

[Matt Farah]

No, no, no. Oh, yours, it comes, all of it comes back on every time.

[Johnny Lieberman]

There's a way to do it because I went on the little mini launch and I took a car home for a couple days. The speed warning is a one off. You can turn it off.

[Matt Farah]

And it wasn't for me. Okay, look, I'm not calling you a liar. I'm just saying.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh no, the owner of the company was there saying, we fixed that, okay? We listen to our customers. The steering's improved, the air conditioning is improved, and you can turn off the speed warning in America.

[Matt Farah]

Okay, so folks, one more break for Delete Me. You know what it is? Cause I've been talking about them for like a year now. They are money. And what they do is incredible. Think about what's happening in the world right now. And online privacy is more important. Your data is like it like your data's worth everything. It's training, chatgpt and things like that, right? And what you want is your data off those places because surveillance data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable, right? So Delete Me knows this. So they do all the hard work of wiping you and your family's personal information from data broker websites, right? So what you do is you sign up, you tell them about, about yourself, your family, your job, your close relations, and they find all that stuff on the Internet on data broker websites who buy it from places you go shopping and sell it to anybody and everybody and they get rid of it. They file takedown notices, they do legal stuff that you sometimes have to do a digital signature. But it's not just a one time service. They're sending you regular personalized privacy reports showing what they found, where they found it, what was removed, and any, you know, know, small actions you might have to take, such as a couple clicks here and there or a signature, an E sign in order to get these takedowns done, right? The New York Times wirecutter named Delete Me their top pick for data removal services. And look, guys, I mean, I think everybody knows someone who's had their identity stolen or been harassed or, or gotten shady phone calls, text messages. If you haven't, you probably don't live in 2026, right? So taking control of your data is extreme. Keep your private life private by signing up for Delete Me now at a special discount for our listeners. So get 20% off your DeleteMe plan when you go to JoinDeleteMe.com Tire and use promo code tire at checkout. That's the only way to get 20% off is to go to JoinDeleteMe.com Tire and enter code Tire at checkout one more time. JoinDeleteMe.com Tire code Tire. Be that as it may.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Matt Farah]

The one I had, every time you restarted it, it was full ADAS reactivation. The lane keeping drove me off the wall. Okay.

[Johnny Lieberman]

The lane keeping, I'm not gonna excuse. I will say it's the Bosch system that Mercedes uses where it breaks a rear wheel.

[Matt Farah]

It's shit.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It doesn't control the steering wheel. So they have. There's no. They don't have any. They don't have any kind of.

[Matt Farah]

So in charge. Just yoink some rear inside Mercedes you to steer it out with that recirculating ball. Back trucks.

[Zach]

It's a surprise. Handbrake.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Crazy.

[Matt Farah]

I like that Porsche experience center kick plate.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. Which is fun, but once you get used to it, it's like, okay, that's how it works. I don't think it was. It doesn't.

[Matt Farah]

Well, I'm just trying to say before you buy one of these, you better double check.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I told my wife, I'm like, go driving around the block, cuz that's her next car. And then she came back. She like almost died.

[Matt Farah]

I hate this thing. It's horrible.

[Johnny Lieberman]

The steering's awful. I'm like, you're gonna learn to love it. You are married to a smart woman.

[Matt Farah]

I learn every time we go to dinner. I'm like, there's what people say about me. People say about me. They're like, they're like, oh my God, you're in. Your wife is on it. I'm like, yeah, we, we, we did marry.

[Johnny Lieberman]

All three of us married. All three of us married.

[Matt Farah]

Very smart people.

[Johnny Lieberman]

What's wrong with them?

[Zach]

Regularly dumb at my house.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. My wife was on Jeopardy. I mean, trust me, it's really.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

How'd she do?

[Johnny Lieberman]

She lost by a hundred bucks. And she's kicking herself because she basically blew it on like an easy question.

[Matt Farah]

Like, what is a quince?

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, it was like the answer was Tiffany's and she said Chanel or something like that. It was just a dumb.

[Matt Farah]

It was one where all the women were like, oh yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Even I was like. But then she got the final Jeopardy question right and the other two got it wrong. But she lost by a hundred bucks because she blew it on this one question. But Trebek was still alive, so it was like six weeks before he died. So she got to meet Trebek, which was good.

[Matt Farah]

That's live. No mustache. Trebek. The end was, I think, no mustache.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, I watched so much Jeopardy, I can't remember.

[Matt Farah]

I gotta find that on YouTube.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. He freaks out about her green hair. And she says she went with green hair. She had green hair at the time. You know how they always have a thing where it's like, Trebek was like, so you. One time in line at Disneyland, you touched another person. It's like, oh, yeah. So my wife says you used to.

[Matt Farah]

Be a sword swallower.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And he, like, was, like, freaking out.

[Matt Farah]

So that was pretty good.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That rules. Yeah. Oh, she did.

[Matt Farah]

Zach, when you met Sarah, did she, by any chance have strange colored hair?

[Zach]

No.

[Matt Farah]

Okay, two for three. Oh.

[Johnny Lieberman]

When I met Amy, she did not have strange hair.

[Matt Farah]

She did not have green hair.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh.

[Matt Farah]

But she had purple hair up until about six months after we got married.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

And then she all of a sudden hated all the wedding photos. When she got rid of her purple hair, just immediately was like, diet, back to purple.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Amy has purple hair right now. I like the purple.

[Matt Farah]

It was good. What's next, buddy? Let's go. Okay. Pick a bottle. What are we doing here?

[Johnny Lieberman]

We got. Let's go. I like. I like the alcohol order. All right, this one's 60.5%, so 121 crude.

[Matt Farah]

So let's just make sure we're clear.

[Johnny Lieberman]

13 as well.

[Matt Farah]

Here. Yeah. Here, you pour it up.

[Johnny Lieberman]

This is bottle127 out of 141.

[Matt Farah]

127. So did you see.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I'll look it up here real quick. Go ahead.

[Matt Farah]

Did you see the other day, the. The Lamborghini, Something is finally happening.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

This is so exciting.

[Johnny Lieberman]

So it got towed somewhere.

[Matt Farah]

Franco's European sports cars.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Damien's the greatest. Damien's doing it. Oh, is that. That's about a dram. A dram?

[Johnny Lieberman]

0.5.

[Matt Farah]

So Damien's doing it. There's a. There's a twin. There's a. There's an. A nearly identical red. Red tan qv.

[Johnny Lieberman]

What color?

[Matt Farah]

Right there next to it. Gold, just like mine. No wing, but otherwise the same. Oh, here you go. Thank you. And so we got. The car is. It's a chassis, it's an engine, it's a gearbox, and then It's, I think, 11 bins and five wheels.

[Johnny Lieberman]

How long?

[Matt Farah]

Well, he says we'll check in monthly. I'm hoping to Drive it by my birthday 2026 in December. I think that's possible because here's what's going to happen.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Happen.

[Matt Farah]

Something's missing. We just don't know what.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Matt Farah]

And so we're gonna figure that out. Throttle cable at a time. At a time.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That engine.

[Matt Farah]

But dude, you should see, you should see the end. Click over all the way. Zach. To the, to the engine. The engine looks so good now.

[Johnny Lieberman]

You forget I drove this car before.

[Matt Farah]

You did.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I'm familiar with that engine. And that looks amazing.

[Matt Farah]

Zach. The screen has turned off the engine. I mean it was fine, you know, ran when parked. But now we have new. I mean this thing was torn down to the block and we have new everything. So I should have 100,000 kilometer engine and a new, completely new gearbox and a rebuilt differential.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Completely new.

[Matt Farah]

Like a new. No, rebuilt. Completely rebuilt. Yeah, completely rebuilt. New clutch, new flywheel.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And this was done in Italy.

[Matt Farah]

This was done at Top Motors in Italy, which is, which is a family owned spot for many, many years. It's where Lamborghini, they're in Santagata. It's where Lamborghini sends the old engines to. So if you send a car, a Miura or a Countach to Lamborghini, these guys are doing the engine.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Because I've been to Damien's shop and I see. I don't know if he's still even alive, but they have this old time that sits there and he has like, you know those like shims where it's like 7 millimeter shim and it's like a keychain and he's just like shimming away on these.

[Matt Farah]

The Countach valve guy. That's cool for sure.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And it's hysterical because when the engine comes out, it's like the size of the car, transmission comes out with it and just this old dude is sitting there like on the ground like shimming away. And I'm like, this is such a crazy thing.

[Matt Farah]

So I've told Damien, I was like, look, there's something's gonna be missing. You know, we're gonna find out what that is. But also there's a lot of good. I mean, we have all new suspension components. They're just not assembled.

[Johnny Lieberman]

They're there.

[Matt Farah]

Those are all there. We have a completely new engine, gearbox, differential, and we have like a lot of, you know, we have almost all the things.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And you went in the back room there. There's a lot of donor cars. Those may never move again.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, there's a lot of stuff back there. So, I mean, we should be pretty good. It's very exciting to actually have something. We had Steve, the best flatbed driver on the planet for JP Logistics. He's the guy who collected it from Donnie, so we had him back to help out. This guy's a fucking boss. I love this guy. And, dude, it was a wild thing and we freed up, you know, this one car was taking up three spots.

[Johnny Lieberman]

He was up on like three lifts. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

So now we have three. So Phil at South Bay is like so excited. We have to get new tires. The tires are now fucking aged out.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And what's the. What's the process of getting new Countach tires?

[Matt Farah]

I know, it's. Oh, you can get them. No, no, no.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Aren't they a fortune? No.

[Matt Farah]

Pirelli makes them and it's like two grand for a set. But you don't.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, it's not like every seven years. No, no, they don't do it anymore.

[Matt Farah]

They just make them now. Yeah, yeah. People buying 80s and 90s cars want to actually drive them now. And so Pirelli got pressured into making tires. You actually have two choices.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, really?

[Matt Farah]

My car has the P Zeros, which are their new compound, but they look like the old tires.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Right, right.

[Matt Farah]

There's also the P7 or P7000 or something. That's a full, just in Countach size.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, that's cool.

[Matt Farah]

It doesn't quite, like, look right, but apparently it drives better. So maybe I'll try those.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I mean, we're.

[Matt Farah]

Metcalf got them.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Okay.

[Matt Farah]

He got the newer tire.

[Johnny Lieberman]

He likes them. I mean, you know, you're not buying a Countach for the handling. There are many other reasons to buy a Countach, but no.

[Matt Farah]

And these tires, because they're new rubber on a nice day. These tires are fine. The P Zeros.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, they're fucking great.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, they're fine.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I was gonna say. I don't even remember. Years ago, I was involved with this, like, fractional ownership company, Drift Capital.

[Matt Farah]

And we.

[Johnny Lieberman]

We bought a Carrera GT and a F40 and we're selling them now that the prices are through the roof and we're selling them at Moda. But I'm flying out on Sunday to go. I was going to drive both.

[Matt Farah]

You got points on that.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I don't know what I have. There's a contract so complicated that my attorney wife read it and said, I don't know what you signed. So maybe, I don't know, but it doesn't matter. It's all in good fun. But I was going to go out and do a Video on the Carrera GT and the F40. And the F40 is on the original tires.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, my God.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And so I'm calling everyone. Called, like, John Tamarion and everyone in Miami. Like, you got, like, a set of F40 wheels with tires on it. Like, I don't have the tires. I got the wheels. So we're not going to drive the F40, but I'm going to drive around the Carrera GT, which is fine.

[Matt Farah]

Fucking tires.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Where are you going to go drive.

[Johnny Lieberman]

The Courier GT just putter around and. Nowhere good. Yeah. It's Florida.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Well, you can go to the concourse. Club Aaron will take care of.

[Johnny Lieberman]

They don't want cars about to be auctioned off on track. Let's just put it like that.

[Matt Farah]

No, I mean, it's. Well, yeah, I know. I know.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I did a photo shoot of the Concord Club. It's great, right?

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, it's. No, and it, like, it's. If you're not, like, mobbing, like, it's safer than the street.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I agree with all that. I have very little. Like, whatever. They're like, be here on Monday.

[Matt Farah]

I don't give a. Have fun. Enjoy yourself.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Sell the car. Yeah, they're gonna sell. I was just saying what's funny is how old the tires are.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

What about the Carrera gt?

[Johnny Lieberman]

New tires. Okay, good. Yeah. Because obvious reasons, but yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Fuck me.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, boy. Okay, well, do you want to. Whiskey. This is also really good. This is also.

[Johnny Lieberman]

This is vanilla. This is like cake batter, cake frosting.

[Matt Farah]

This is dessert whiskey. This is fire. So.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, yeah.

[Matt Farah]

We're not. We're not gonna paint the car, which is good. Yeah, we're gonna leave it scruffy. That way I can just beat the balls off it for 20 years.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

That's a good idea, right?

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's a great idea.

[Matt Farah]

It should be good. I have. Damien is under. You know, he knows there's certain things I want to be there for. So I want to be there. The marriage. I want to be there when the car gets dropped on its. On its wheels for the first time.

[Johnny Lieberman]

What about when the engine goes in that marriage?

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Yeah, that, too.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Okay.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, so that'll be fun. And then when they. And then when they eventually. Eventually start it. So hopefully that'll be an adventure. We'll see what happens.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Can't wait. I'd love to see that thing back on the road.

[Matt Farah]

I know I'm gonna drive it so much because what is. What a waste to have it.

[Johnny Lieberman]

How long is this?

[Matt Farah]

Four years. Oh, this is so depressing. I last drove it. I last drove it October 2022, and I collected it from Donnie's in this condition. April 2024.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Okay.

[Matt Farah]

So. It's been a long time.

[Johnny Lieberman]

My 914 should be ready by then.

[Matt Farah]

Get out of here.

[Johnny Lieberman]

We will do a video drag race. Collaborative video drag race.

[Matt Farah]

We'll go to Willow Springs. We'll go to Willow Springs. We'll have a little racy race. Right. It'll be a race to get them finished and then a race. Yeah. It'll be first to complete a lap. Right, right, right, right.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. Well, I'll have 80 horsepower, but it'll weigh nothing. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

And if it's done three months before mine, just forcing a lap.

[Zach]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

Okay.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Matt Farah]

It's.

[Johnny Lieberman]

There's been progress on my 914. I'm very. That's awesome.

[Matt Farah]

You showed us the interior last time.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It looks sick. Oh, that is the progress. But, hey, you know, it's. That's a lot. That's a lot.

[Matt Farah]

So I.

[Johnny Lieberman]

This would be a good opportunity for.

[Matt Farah]

Me to make the interior real crazy in the Lambo. But we're gonna. We're not gonna do that. We're. Leave it original. Matt. Okay. You want to talk about. About. Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Your little AI.

[Matt Farah]

AI. Nonsense. AI. Nonsense.

[Johnny Lieberman]

All right. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

So thanks for asking. If you could quote me in your newsletter as an. As an endorsement, by the way. Oh, here's the newsletter.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Good.

[Zach]

They were like, do you have points on that?

[Johnny Lieberman]

They were like, write something. And I'm like, I don't know what to write.

[Matt Farah]

You were like, matt Farah didn't hate it.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. Well, I quoted you saying, like, bro, I fucking hate AI. That's a good quote.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. I hate AI for moral reasons.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

I fully acknowledge that there are some instances that AI can be useful.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

But I hate AI for, you know, the theft.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

So you should, too, by the way.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I do.

[Matt Farah]

As someone who's been gratuitously thefted from. For purposes of training, AI, trust me, I talk.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I'm now actually writing for Angela's Death Highway. I got in touch with what you're.

[Matt Farah]

Writing scripts for that guy.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Really? I give him ideas, you know, because I'm like. I'm like, you could be funnier.

[Matt Farah]

It's a good idea.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's not that funny.

[Matt Farah]

I told him that he. I wanted to. I liked his writing. I thought it was. I assume it's a guy.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I don't know. I have no idea who it is.

[Matt Farah]

I shouldn't assume, but odds are high.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Odds are high.

[Matt Farah]

Odds are High?

[Johnny Lieberman]

I have no idea.

[Matt Farah]

But, you know, I tried to say that I would sponsor a human animated episode.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Matt Farah]

And I said, get a price. I said, get a price. I don't know. I don't know if. If it's 500, 5,000 or 50,000. If it's 50,000, we're not doing it. But like, But I would, I would. I like. I like.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Cartoons are great.

[Matt Farah]

I like paying artists to make art. I find joy in that. Totally. So I said, get a price. He never came back to me and then made some more AI stuff. So, yeah, I feel like I knew the answer.

[Johnny Lieberman]

He got me to go on a diet. So.

[Matt Farah]

Actually go to Instagram for a second.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Well, go to my Instagram for a second. This is pretty good. Go down, go down, go down. Get down, get down, get down, get down. Okay, on the left there.

[Matt Farah]

So.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, no. So they're both AI me. But that was what AI thought I looked like two years ago. And that was what AI thought I looked like recently.

[Zach]

That doesn't look anything like you.

[Matt Farah]

First off, the face doesn't look anything like you. The one on the left is Nino.

[Zach]

It's a lot more like our friend Nino.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, maybe when I had long hair. I don't know if you remember, a couple years ago.

[Matt Farah]

Okay. Do you watch the Lincoln Lawyer? Do you watch the Lincoln Lawyer? The one on the right is Cisco from the Lincoln Lawyer.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But on the one on the left, I know it's me. Cuz it. I. The character. The guy hops in the car and goes, I'm Lieberman and blah, blah, blah.

[Zach]

Oh, no, no, I'm not saying that the AI didn't make this as you. I'm saying it doesn't actually.

[Matt Farah]

But forget about the face.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Look at the body. So again, I was. I was much lighter and in shape years ago.

[Matt Farah]

You were. But you never look that good.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I love you too, Matt.

[Matt Farah]

Let's just call a spade a spade. Dude, you never look that good.

[Zach]

This guy, this guy looks like a retired Delta operator.

[Matt Farah]

Directing a black rifle coffee company.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Fair enough. Fair enough. Hey, man, blame AI. You know, it's just. It's. That's hilarious.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, no, guilt is a powerful drug. It is. I just. I was just with a guy the other day. Who's his phone? Who's his phone? Like, like lock screen was like, this fat ain't gonna lose itself. And I was like, oh, dude, that's.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That'. Tough.

[Matt Farah]

And he's like, yeah, it's.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I was just like, if this is what a Computer's seeing. And I literally. I was like, I'm not that. But then I got on the scale. I'm like, oh, I am that fat.

[Matt Farah]

No, listen, here's what's happening. Speak. I'm going to tell you as someone who. I don't know if you've been there, but I grew up. Not grew up. I spent most of my career being called fat on the Internet about a thousand times a day, every day, every.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Day of my life.

[Matt Farah]

So what's happening is the AI is reading the comments of people calling you fucking fat.

[Zach]

Right?

[Matt Farah]

And going, well, the masses have agreed that, by the way, that's my goddamn fucking nightmare. That the masses just agree that I'm fat because enough people have been shitty on the Internet about it.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Right, right, right.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, that's what that is.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Fine.

[Matt Farah]

YouTube comments.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But literally, he was like. He was like, whatever. The AI looked at me two years ago and said, that's what I looked like. And then recently, you know, did one.

[Matt Farah]

I didn't watch this. Did one Angela's Death highway video do this to you?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, those are both Angela's Death Highway.

[Matt Farah]

No, no, I know, but one. Did he. Were they like, oh, by the way, Johnny was thinner two years ago? Because that's a low blow.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I was trying to find the picture on the right. I didn't even know about the picture on the left. And I was just wondering.

[Matt Farah]

You didn't realize you were the after.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Well, I saw the one on the left. I never saw.

[Zach]

The question is, did the guy writing the prompts, did he make, you know, which video is first? And then he goes, no, no, no, no, bigger.

[Matt Farah]

The one on the left is the gentleman drivers 1.

[Johnny Lieberman]

The one on the left was the. Was. Was first, the black shirt. It was a Nurburgring. They're making fun of people that go to the Nurburgring. And then it's like this guy jumps out of the car, goes, I'm Lieberman. I drive the Nurburgring, or something like that. And I was like, okay. And that was like an earlier Angela's Death highway.

[Zach]

So subsequently, he's adjusted the prompt to say, by the way, make Lieberman.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I don't know how he does it. But then, anyway, so the prompt dude is then being like, my point is, this got me to go on a diet.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, that's hilarious and sad. Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But also, I have this cool thing called Bid. Better. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Zach]

Oh, yeah. That's where we started.

[Matt Farah]

That's why we're talking about this, because. Yeah, yeah. I'm so Happy? I park cars. So you sent this to me and it immediately made sense. You go here. I'm part of this thing. It's called bid Better. What you do is you drop. Drop the link from a car auction into this tool, and it. It essentially runs comps. That's. It's a comp running tool.

[Zach]

But.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But it. Well, yes.

[Zach]

One. This one. We dropped it in.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. Okay, so go back to the cars and bids thing for a second. Okay, so again, here's an M2 2018 with how many miles on it?

[Zach]

54,000.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And it's a manual and it's black and you know. So. Okay, it does. So you get all that stuff, then you go to. When you do do the analysis and bid better. It says, here's your bid target.

[Matt Farah]

Wow. Is that really what these things are going for? Zach, why don't you have one of these?

[Zach]

Because I already have a BMW.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, but this is a better one.

[Zach]

I know.

[Matt Farah]

And it's a non. You could probably sell your car for even money and have a 50,000 mile 2018 M2.

[Zach]

That is tempting.

[Matt Farah]

Is that if that's really the comps.

[Zach]

This one's got a wing and stuff on it. So I think that's why the price is a little. We'll find out.

[Matt Farah]

Imagine what it smells like in there.

[Johnny Lieberman]

So. So, so look, look, look, look, look. It says, however, a discount is necessary due to the engine tune and racing seat.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, yes.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Which increase wear and tear risk and narrow market appeal.

[Matt Farah]

Yes, the racing seat definitely increases wear and tear.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Thanks, AI and narrow market appeal.

[Zach]

Go back and explain the overall of like. What?

[Johnny Lieberman]

What? In other words, you're.

[Matt Farah]

You're a.

[Johnny Lieberman]

You don't know the people we know. And so you're like, I've always wanted an M2. So you go to cars and bids. Hey, there's an M2 for auction. Oh, it's got 54,000 miles on it. And a racing seat, like, okay. And there's like, time left in the auction. It's sitting at whatever price it's sitting at. Well, what should I actually bid on it? And we're pretty accurate. Like, we went live when we went live because we achieved an accuracy of like running a ton of. Of these analyses where it's like, damn. Because we wait 16 hours, the auction's over, and we see what it went for. So it's easy to see what the computer predicted versus what it sold for. And it's like way up in the 90s and it wasn't before. We spent a lot of months where it was like, it could be better, but we got there and it was consistent. It was like, all right, let's go live with the thing. And then so it does this, and if you scroll down a bit, you can start to see, like, right off the bat, potential immediate repairs. And it's just saying, on average, when you buy one of these, you're going to be dropping this in. And it's good for stuff. Like, R107s are the best because Mercedes R107, they're $30,000 with an immediate $30,000 need. And it knows all that. And then, yes, it shows you the comps, as Matt said, and it'll show you outlier comps. And the analysis above probably said, like, yeah, the one that sold for 81 had 1,000 miles on it and it's a C. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's not. A lot of these have been selling at auction.

[Matt Farah]

For whatever reason, it does likely should eliminate CS's.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It doesn't put. It doesn't factor them into the range.

[Matt Farah]

It just.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It shows it as a comp sale, but it doesn't actually factor it into the price. And then it'll show, like, key strengths, but also key issues, like, you know, so the charge pipe is a common failure. Just knows all that and then keep going down. So it kind of makes you, like, an instant expert on what you're bidding on beyond the fact, like, I got a friend of mine, he's like, I kind of want a Boxster. I'm like, what year? I don't know. I just like Porsche Boxsters. I was like, what's your price range? You know, it's just like that. It doesn't. You know, people like cars. They don't know they're not us. And then it was. It gets into, like, investment potential, and you keep going down and there's like.

[Matt Farah]

A investment potential zero.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I mean, you know, the right M2.

[Matt Farah]

Nobody makes money on cars.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Well, some people make money.

[Matt Farah]

Very few people, when factoring in all fucking expenses, make any money on cars. I went through my entire customer base with Eric the other day.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Almost none of their cars justify their own.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Sure.

[Matt Farah]

Home.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I'm not arguing that. Sure, cars cost money.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, cars cost money.

[Zach]

It is an expensive home to rent for a car.

[Matt Farah]

But still like. But, you know, still like, you're not wrong.

[Zach]

Most people. Most people underperform the index and all that stuff.

[Matt Farah]

And they just think about what I bought it for and what I sell it for and not what it's service and Cost, insurance and fuel and tires like nobody.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Okay. Yeah, we actually factor that in if you go down. And so here's like questions to ask. So those, those one through three, we always ask those. It's like you always save the carbon on a track or whatever. But then these are like specific vehicle questions. So, you know, for whatever reason AI is concerned about the custom 93 octane tune.

[Matt Farah]

If someone asked me what someone has asked me what repairs a car will need in the next 12 months, I have told them to quietly eat a dick.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Well, if you go down, it'll show you. And again, this is just pulling, we're pulling from all over the place. But if you go down a little bit, Zach, it'll show you the cost projections and it'll show you what you're spending the money on. And you can actually zoom in or. What's the word I'm looking for anyways? Not zooming like that, but like you can, yeah, you can, you can see like where the maintenance, like what's going to fail. But scroll down a bit more. It'll show you like common things that are replaced, you know. And then here's like, you know, if there's any, you know, here you can see the estimated value is lower than what the bid is. So it takes that then long term.

[Matt Farah]

You know, you're going to lose investment grade, as you can see. Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But you know, but again it's, but this is like, like we're not trying to trick them. We're trying to say here's all the information.

[Zach]

Yeah, this green line is actually the value of the dollar right now.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's also true. But yeah, so you know, and then it's, you know, we say it has a confidence rating. So you know, in 10 years we're low confidence because, you know, again, who knows? But with M2s. And then one other thing that's cool that we're into. Yeah. The build your bid. So for instance, go down a little bit more. Okay. A little bit more right there. Market trend. So like the, the Enzo sold for $18 million. And then a week later another. Whatever. Some Ferrari sold for crazy money in Arizona, Right?

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

So the Ferrari market is hot. So in other words, the auction results that this is pulling from, like you know, bring a trailer cars and bids primarily hasn't really caught up to the in person auction. Yeah. So you can say, hey, the market's hot and you can click that and you can, you know, you can adjust it. So you might say, we did this the other day, we had a F430 Spider with a gated manual where with the market being normal, it was saying the top end was 195. And we changed it to the market's hot, foreign market's hot. And it said. I forget exactly 195 to 215. And it sold for 202. It's cool features and it lets you. If you really are buying a lot of cars, it can. It can help you to know how to bid on things. I will say, you two dudes, I asked a lot of my car friends for feedback. You had the best feedback by far. So A plus best in terms of most helpful. Most helpful, but also, like, comprehensive and well written. And it was very cute. I was like, who the hell. Oh, Zach send you an invoice? Yeah, please. And then you send something.

[Zach]

That's right. I said, it's like having a journalist in your pocket. I was like, I will sell you that line for one person.

[Matt Farah]

No, what you want is a spot in the. The bunker. I mean, because now he's on that team. So when, you know, that's really what we.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, right. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

I just need a spot in the bunker.

[Zach]

That's where Ice Race will be held. So we'll be there too.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Right.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But that's. That's our next. So we actually launched and we actually got, like, people throwing money at us, which was crazy. I don't mean, like, subscribers, which we got some. But, like, investors were like, hey, this is pretty cool. And what you were saying, you were. You were saying, like, this is great, but I'm not really buying that many cars.

[Matt Farah]

Blah, blah, blah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But I'm selling cars, you know, I want, like a selling feature. So that's our phase two. And now we actually have the cash to develop that.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, like, it is. If you. If you don't know shit, it is very helpful. And a lot of people don't know shit. Don't know shit, dude. A lot of people don't know shit. And.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And.

[Matt Farah]

As much as I don't like AI because of the theft. Again, it's because of the theft and the environmental things.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, well, environmental part.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

You know, let's get green energy in there.

[Matt Farah]

No, what this is. This is like, this is like auction. Bumper bowling. It's automatic rev matching.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Which I think what makes me feel weird about it is exactly what makes me feel weird about automatic rev matching. I spent a lot of time getting good at that.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. And I hate it. I never turned it on. Yeah. And.

[Matt Farah]

And like you said if you're looking to buy a car and you don't know the people we know.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

The thing is, there is. I mean, there's a lot of information here, but when it comes to the actual comps and the bids, they offer those tools. I think they offer those tools and they're very useful and they're very accurate. And it's not like that tool doesn't exist. It's there. It's really easy to use both of these sites.

[Johnny Lieberman]

We're just more accurate. We're just. We're just. It's just more accurate.

[Matt Farah]

Well, it just like, literally takes the results and puts them into the thing.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, it does a lot.

[Matt Farah]

I mean, again, and we.

[Johnny Lieberman]

We do that, we go to ChatGPT, replicate this website, do bid better, and it can't do it. And. And another, again, if you. If you did ChatGPT, it would take that M2Cs and be like, oh, it's also a 2018 M2. And it would dump it in there and it would. It would inflate. Like, we've done, like, what we had to do to get 9 11s to work was probably more time than building the site. Because, you know, you say, do a 2019 Speedster, and it's like, okay, 2019 Speedster is a, you know, it's a 911 where the top goes down and it's stickered for 245,000. There's also a lot of 2019 Target GTS4s that stickered for over 200. So AI would just start looking at that or thinking about that and it would start influencing. So we had to literally build tables to be like, don't do that. A GT3 touring manual is different than a GT3 wing car PDK. And again, yeah, again, all those sites have that, but they don't do it the way this one does it. And that's why they got me in, was like, to do like, a 1993 Corvette is not a 1993 Corvette Zero. Even though the prices are pretty close these days, they're different and it's a different market and, you know, just all that kind of stuff. So we really, you know, it's not just like steel, you know, cars and bids API, it's like, take this information and then put it through all these filters and work it.

[Matt Farah]

Well, it's not steel cars and bids API, but all the information about the ownership experience is all that sure is scraped from the Internet, the Internet, which is. Which is. Which is taking value that's put into the Internet.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Okay.

[Matt Farah]

And you're using it.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

You know what I mean? Like, that's part of that theft. I just want like.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, it is.

[Matt Farah]

Like, it just is.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Like, I mean, but we're not taking anything like, creative.

[Zach]

We're not.

[Matt Farah]

But you might be. If someone writes of long term ownership experience, write up of the BMW M2 and they put that on the Internet and they're trying to make a living by, by being a vlogger or something.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Okay, but we're not looking at vlogs. But it's out there. And also that's the other thing. It's like, know what to filter out also. Sure. Okay.

[Matt Farah]

But like the way I feel about AI is because people contribute to the Internet, right?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

And other people are building value that's based on all that information, but those people that have done the actual legwork to generate that information are not being compensated. So that's how I feel about AI across the board.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, you made that very clear. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.

[Matt Farah]

I don't feel society is benefiting from it. I feel like 12 people are going to be the richest people that have ever lived.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

And everybody else will be worse off.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Okay, well, I won't be one of the 12.

[Matt Farah]

I'm the third 12 people and Johnny.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, no, no, what I'm saying, no, what I'm saying is if we can help people like, you know, buy and sell cars better, like, I, I, I don't, Sure, I don't, I don't see the great societ.

[Matt Farah]

I think, I think the overall is the great societal.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Sure, okay, okay, sure. But I mean, I remember, I remember conversations like this. Like, you know, when the, when Google happened. Like you can just search something I wrote. Like I want, you know, like my words.

[Matt Farah]

I don't see that in the same way because particularly in the early days.

[Johnny Lieberman]

You don't. But I remember when people did. I was there.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, not that young.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I know I was fucking there. I remember those coming, you know, so again, like, like it's, you know. Are you gonna, like, how do I put this? Like, okay, I've no comeback to. I hate AI because it's AI. You know what I mean? Like, all right.

[Matt Farah]

No, I feel like it is, it gives. Excuse me. It takes far more than it gives back right. From society. That's what I feel about AI.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Okay.

[Matt Farah]

It's a taking technology, not a giving technology. Okay.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Although, again, like with, with fine, but with what we're doing, like, we're not necessarily, I mean, again, we're taking like Auction results and like, you know, public information, you know, and we're doing something creative with it and we're charging for it. You know, you got it, you got to pay. But I don't, I don't see how. Like, you know, the environmental thing. Yeah, absolutely.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

And like the oligarchy. Oligarchy. The oligarchy is extremely bad.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. You know, but, but again, like, is, is OpenAI a worse oligarchy than Amazon?

[Matt Farah]

No, no. They're equally bad than Google. Equally bad.

[Johnny Lieberman]

All bad than Amazon Web Services, all bad than the operating system that's that you're broadcasting on right now.

[Matt Farah]

In some ways, yes.

[Zach]

Or AI companies might have a larger negative impact than Amazon because like, there's a lot of articles now that the impact on white collar jobs, for example, will be huge. I'm not saying that that's those, the jobs that matter. But this is different because when like factories became more automated, you could get a factory worker to go get trained to work in the office, but now you have AI that can do the work in the office also. So it can take the office job and then the robots can take the blue collar job of moving the packages in Amazon. So both, both jobs get.

[Matt Farah]

There's never been any indication that the value produced by AI will ever be put back into society. No one's ever said anything like that. Okay.

[Zach]

And pure research, this is the poll. And not to just like, attack Johnny, but like, yeah.

[Matt Farah]

You want to come? I told you this. I told you. You want to come on the show and talk about this? I'm gonna give you my honest opinion.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I do.

[Matt Farah]

You're the devil. But I think AI, AI is so bad for society.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I don't think it's that bad.

[Matt Farah]

I do.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, I, I think the environmental part's awful. And I, you know, and again, I, you know, green energy is the way out of that. You know, green, solar, wind, atomic. Let's go. I, I, I, you know, and then figure out a way to like, deal with the wastewater.

[Zach]

That's. No, I think, I think, but what I, what I like about AI is the aggregating of information to help people do things.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And this is one of those things I don't like when it takes, you know, ingests all of Hollywood's creative work and then writes a script and makes the movie and edits the movie and puts out like, or if it can just start doing all of like the assistant jobs, logistics stuff and stuff like that. But I think when people use it as a learning tool and in this Case if it can tell them a bunch of shit about cars that they didn't know that might not be in the comps also. That kind of helps the buyer be more informed.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It does, it does.

[Matt Farah]

And I'm not, I'm not anti informed buyer. I just have such a strong belief, belief, such a strong belief like in doing the legwork. I have such a strong belief in not taking a shortcut. I have, I write notes because it programs them into my brain. I fucking, they tried to shove Ozempic down my throat, I didn't fucking take it. Why? To create a sustainable, like, you know what I mean? Like this is me, I'm. Someone out there is going, Matt's a, he doesn't know shit and that's fine. But like the way I live is like by like fucking. If you need to like learn something. Like I run comps for cars like tons of times a day. Like my comps are accurate as fuck and I'm not smart and I don't have any special talents. And so while they're, yeah, it's a tool, okay, but like, God, it makes people dumber when they don't have to like learn a little bit how to do something well.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But also like I really don't want.

[Matt Farah]

Peer to peer offer auctions to have the human element removed from them.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Okay, but I would say like, you know, back to your Ozempic thing for a second. Like I had lunch today with a friend who's on some one of those things and he ate a little bit less than I did, same food. And then he took some home and I asked him like, do you have any problems or anything? He's like, no, I'm fine.

[Matt Farah]

I'm just judging anyone who takes fucking Ozempic.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, but I'm saying it is a shortcut now look, I went on a diet. I just lost a bunch of weight by like eating less and exercising, which fucking sucks, you know, Like I hate it.

[Matt Farah]

But don't you learn something? Don't you learn something by doing that?

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, because two years ago I did the same thing and I lost 30 some pounds and I got really strong and then I was like, God, I love bread. And I got fucking huge.

[Matt Farah]

And I learned something.

[Johnny Lieberman]

You wanted to learn, but no, I mean I learned I know how to do it, I hate doing it, you know, type thing. And for a lot of like, you know, again, my friend who is maybe buying a Boxster again, he's like, yeah, I just decided I wanted a sports car. He does other shit. He's Got a full life. He's just like. And I'm like, well, well, you could use this, you know? And he's like, oh, that's cool. I didn't know any of that. Now I know. Now I have my report on the Boxster and it's all in one place. I don't have to. And, you know, the other thing too is like, you could say, oh, go to forums. Everything's on a forum.

[Matt Farah]

Well, I do not say that ever. I never go to forums. Forums are terrible.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But if people start Googling, right? Wind up on a forum and it's like, you can't buy an M2, you know. You know, like, IRS, Mary, whatever. I know it's a 911, but you know what I'm saying? So this cuts a lot of that out. And it's a tool. And it also, our phase three, shall we say, we've trained it on cars. It can look at Pokemon cards, it can look at anything you bid on, and it can do the same thing. We just don't have the cash on hand right now and the time to program that. But that's all it is. It's just like we've created, I don't know, software that essentially analyzes as auctions.

[Matt Farah]

I'm, you know, I'm not usually like a slippery slope kind of person.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Farah]

But I just, I. I don't want to see, you know, where auctions. These, these auctions just become one person's AI agent bidding against some sell. A seller's AI agent. You know what I mean? Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Okay.

[Matt Farah]

I just, Yeah, I don't, I don't want to see that. I don't want to see a fucking world where the bidder doesn't have to fucking, like, learn a little something. Or to put like two seconds. The number of times I see people wiring 150 grand having fucking no idea what they've just bought. It just makes sense you're complaining about.

[Johnny Lieberman]

People because again, I know I said this on the show. I would literally.

[Matt Farah]

I want people to be less fucking dumber. And AI is allowing them to be even dumber.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But I was literally. I tell the story all the time. I was out of this Bugatti rally and a guy was like, you drive.

[Matt Farah]

A lot of cars.

[Johnny Lieberman]

What's been interesting lately? I'm like, oh, I just wanted to launch the Ferrari SF90. And he's like, oh, I haven't heard that of that one. And his assistant's like, sir, the black car that was delivered Tuesday, that's your SF90.

[Matt Farah]

Oh. You know what I mean? So, like, not bolstering your case. The. You're hurting my case, people.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I'm just saying people are people, like, expecting people to like, if we got rid of AI, people would get better, you know? Like.

[Matt Farah]

No, but if we got rid of AI, like, those 12 people might not be oligarchs, but. But ideally we'd have no oligarchs. I'd like to work to a system in which we don't have oligarchs. Is that like a boy can dream.

[Zach]

March of. Of AI is interesting because there's a lot of. There's a couple of states right now that are. Have proposed legislation to ban AI data centers, period. Georgia did it. Virginia's doing. Working on it, and in Florida, Desantis also, mostly because of the cost of the data centers and their effect on power. So, like, it would be a fascinating thing if two years from now it's just like every state has actually says, nope, we don't want any of these data centers. Like, this shit doesn't exist anymore. It's not. Based on these polls from Pew Research, most of the people don't want it. And I don't know, this might end up being like this weird flash in the pan thing, but, I mean, it.

[Matt Farah]

Probably won't go away forever, but it would be nice if it was, if it was valued according to the value it actually brings to society and not according to the fucking hype machine.

[Zach]

Well, I think it will shrink a lot.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. Okay. My little app will help you Listen. We'll help you bid better.

[Matt Farah]

You said. You said I come hawk it. I said, yeah, speak in my mind, habibi. It's not your fault.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But I just, like, that's fine.

[Matt Farah]

You know, I'm very sour on this right now. I'm sour a lot.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I'm not. And again, for me, it's the environmental impact that I'm, you know, I don't like.

[Matt Farah]

It's all intertwined, man. It's all intertwined again, you read. You read how the Epstein is talking to Peter Thiel in those emails. It's like a. It's like the script of that movie mountain, Fountainhead. Yeah, that's supposed to be satire. That's how these are really talking about it.

[Johnny Lieberman]

For the record, Epson has nothing to.

[Matt Farah]

Do with bid better.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It was me, Paul and Rusty, but he probably.

[Matt Farah]

I bet you had something to do with some further downstream. But I mean, maybe, you know, shooting capsules of water.

[Zach]

I didn't want to leave the water in There I wasn't sure I was getting rid of it. I wasn't like shooting, I swear.

[Matt Farah]

Zach's doing a little poured water into.

[Zach]

His capsule, but then I did a finger into the glass and then I drank the water.

[Matt Farah]

More whiskey, Johnny. Let's fucking go.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Look, I don't, I, I, I, I, I, I agree that, that if you know nothing, this, this will help you. But I just, I, I, I am so, so sour on all this shit right now. And I, I just, I feel like, I feel like value has been stolen from fucking all of humanity to make a very rich and basically powerful beyond the borders of countries or anything like that.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Right, but I mean like, you know, again, the, I don't want to say hypocrisy but like the one eyedness of like, you know, you're on YouTube this right now on YouTube and you're decrying oligarchy is like, sure, it's insane.

[Matt Farah]

You can't, you can't, you can't live. Like, I'm not, I'm not a martyr. You can't live in a society and not. That's what oligarchy is. I can't escape it unless I do a Tom Morningstar and build a cabin in the fucking woods. I cannot escape.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And then you gotta shit in a hole.

[Matt Farah]

No, but like that's what I mean. Like I don't have a choice to deal with these people or not. It's forced upon me.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's tough. I remember one of my favorite bands when I was in college was this punk band, fifteen. They were awesome. And this guy, he had this song about, it was called Petroleum Distillation. And it was just about how horrible the oil industry was. And he was getting so hardcore. He's like, I'm not even gonna go on tour anymore because my van, you know, like burns oil. And I'm like, you know, your message is pretty good. You should go on tour and spread the message and like, you know, like you gotta exist in the world and you know, you see this all the time where it's like massive corporations are telling you to recycle while they're stealing all the water. Yes, of course, yeah.

[Matt Farah]

So yeah, these are the massive corporations that I am talking about, Johnny.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, well, bit better is a very small corporation.

[Matt Farah]

Your fucking corporation, the whole thing, dude.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I know, but, but again like, like, like, how do I put this? I understand your point about stealing from like artists and that kind of thing, but like saying that like AI is worse than Google that owns YouTube, that you make Your living on.

[Matt Farah]

I didn't say that.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I did not say that.

[Matt Farah]

Okay, but like, they're the same. They're the same.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, agreed. I totally agreed.

[Matt Farah]

Google is AI. They're the same. What I'm saying, Johnny, is that YouTube and Google. Yes. Were vastly better products before AI. YouTube was a vastly better product before AI.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Okay.

[Matt Farah]

When subscribers got video videos. When it was not algorithmic. When it wasn't.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Well, it's always been algorithmic.

[Matt Farah]

It was not. It absolutely has not always been algorithmic.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's always been an algorithm.

[Matt Farah]

No, it was not. There was. There was years of YouTube before there was algorithms. That's not before there was an algorithmic feed that you got. There were years of YouTube before that. What year?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Like before Google bought it. Google's always at you. There's an algorithm that says, give this guy results based on these metrics. Right.

[Matt Farah]

But that has changed.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Very drastically.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yes. Yes. But there's always been.

[Matt Farah]

When it became. When it shifted from the. I subscribe to these channels and I will get their videos to. Yeah, I subscribe to these channels, but I haven't watched in a while. So I'm not going to put. That's the algorithm. That was when it became algorithmic.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Well, I was in the beginning. We're talking about two different things. Like a computer science science. Algorithms are part of it.

[Matt Farah]

When it became. When it learned your behavior and amplified that behavior back to you. Yeah, that's what I mean.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Okay.

[Matt Farah]

There was a time before it did that, before it did that, it was better.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I mean, better. It was different. I don't know if it was better.

[Matt Farah]

How was it better? It was better because you could actually get your content to the people that wanted to see it.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

As opposed to catching people with a big thumbnail and a bold fucking thing and getting them in the. What's next? Or just having your audience go to YouTube.com or pull up the app and scroll with what's fed to them, as opposed to. I'm gonna say it was porn is non algorithmic, Johnny. There's a reason it works right now. And YouTube's in the fucking toilet. That's why. Because it's non algorithmic. You get it?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. You're not using the word algorithm.

[Matt Farah]

Right.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Like, there's like the fact that, like, if you look at anything on your phone, there's algorithms that feed you every single thing.

[Matt Farah]

If you subscribe to this podcast, yes, it comes to you. If you don't listen for a couple weeks, it still comes to you.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's because that's the way that algorithm is programmed.

[Matt Farah]

Then it's non self reinforcing. What is the word you like the better? Algorithm.

[Johnny Lieberman]

The better word.

[Matt Farah]

What's the better word?

[Johnny Lieberman]

I don't know. Is it.

[Matt Farah]

The YouTube algorithm is working out great for you right now?

[Zach]

Actually.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. If you want to look at my YouTube channel, it's. Yes, it's been a very. We've had explosive growth for no discernible reason in the last two.

[Matt Farah]

Discernible reason. Yeah. I like it. As.

[Johnny Lieberman]

As Rylie said, the algorithm chose you. But yeah.

[Matt Farah]

This guy fights me for 10 minutes and then makes my own point for me back to me like a victory. The algorithm rewards you. We don't know.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I. I made a good video. I made a video that went viral. Not viral, but it did really well.

[Matt Farah]

Don't ever use that word.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Calm it down.

[Matt Farah]

When you write for buzzfeed we have videos.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Wow.

[Zach]

Go relatively viral. So yeah. According to this thing, you know, early 2000s. I mean. So algorithm is just like how the thing is programmed.

[Johnny Lieberman]

So yeah.

[Zach]

Pretty.

[Matt Farah]

It was simple chronological system uploaded contrad view counts were a key metric. Videos the algorithm.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But they're always.

[Matt Farah]

I'm sorry, that was when it was awesome.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Okay.

[Matt Farah]

That was when it was awesome.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Like that algorithm always been. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That's all. Yes.

[Matt Farah]

When you got videos that were shown to you in the order they were uploaded and if you subscribed it went to your inbox and it was there.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And you watched it. I.

[Matt Farah]

Yes.

[Zach]

I think. I think. I think what Matt is saying is that there was a time when it was less manipulative. It was. Exactly. And people. People didn't see the manipulation so they didn't refer to it as the algorithm.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Sure.

[Zach]

And then a few years ago lots of creators, big, small whatever started noticing and users. Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I think people use the word algorithm.

[Zach]

Without ever having to take a computer.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Science class which accidentally took one. One time and sucked hard. I'm just. That's not how my brain works. I took a computer science class. It was. But yeah. Yeah.

[Zach]

It's engineer. Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. Anyway. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

What I obviously mean and I think is fucking common sense is these self reinforcing algorithm that feeds you shit based on your watch behavior. Most recently.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Again, you don't like that. I agree. Some things I like to watch on YouTube I actually like some of my favorite channels which are just dudes cooking steaks. I found because of the algorithm. So I'm not like super negative on that.

[Matt Farah]

I'm saying I've never found anything of interest because of the algorithm. But what I'm saying is if you are a content creator. Yes. Who is creating content where you're, let's just say, reviewing products. Okay.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Whatever products.

[Matt Farah]

The metal drives the view count. So if you have a product that's not as interesting because it's seasonal or whatever view count down. A self reinforcing algorithm will punish you for that. And I think that means makes the Internet a worse place.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Okay. I. I don't.

[Matt Farah]

I think it's been a long and windy road to get where we are now.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

But AI go look at your fat picture is the ultimate reinforcement of that is. Is where is the end point.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Don't body shame me, Matt.

[Matt Farah]

Algorithm, dude.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

To me it is.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. I. Again, I, Yeah, I. How do I put this? Sure. I don't, I don't even know how to respond to that. But it. Again, we're trying to use.

[Matt Farah]

And I'm not trying to like complain about why our specific video count is down. I talked to Doug, I talked to people across the board.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Nobody's having a good time right now in cars.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Mine went up weirdly. Like it was. In fact, I was going to shut it down. I was literally going to shut it down. Two things. This guy, very helpful. You were like, your thumbnail sucks.

[Zach]

Couldn't read him.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. And so I was like, all right, let's make him his fucking rito.

[Matt Farah]

That was probably the change. You got a big boost. It could have been that part of.

[Johnny Lieberman]

The change and then. But I was literally going to shut it down. And then I talked to Misha and he's like, dude, he's like, you got 10,000 subscribers. Like, do you know how hard that is? Everything else after that's easy. You'll get up to where you want. And again, I don't need like, you know, if I get to 250,000 subscribers, which is like, you know, nine and a half X what I have now, in a couple years I'll be fine. That's, you know, but it cost me so little to make these videos. We figured out a way to, you know, you know, you know how the deal.

[Zach]

They look cheap.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But anyway. Yeah, it's just, it's been weird. It's been, it's been going well. It like last two weeks. I don't know what happened.

[Matt Farah]

We.

[Johnny Lieberman]

We gained like 17,000 subscribers.

[Matt Farah]

Good.

[Zach]

That's from your Escalade video.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Escalated very well. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

So I don't, I, I hope you don't. You don't think that I don't want you to be successful. You know what I mean? I'm not, it's not where that's not, not my position.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I didn't think that for one second. Again, I'm dopey enough that rather than change the fucking subject, which I should have done like 20 minutes ago, I'm just like, I forgot that I have this bit better AI company. And I'm just like, I'm not sure I agree with. My understanding of AI is I understand, when I say understand, I understand Newton's laws of thermodynamics on a third grade level and I understand large language models on a third grade level. So I have that much understanding of what I'm saying.

[Zach]

No one thinks you wrote the code. Don't worry.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, yeah, I didn't write the code. Yeah, yeah, but we have developers. We actually pay people to write the code. No, I know you do, but I just like, I'm like, I know how to put this, and I'm not saying this directed at you, but it's very, like, it's the next great thing to hate is AI as a whole. There can't be any nuance. AI is just, just evil. And I'm like, okay, for me, the evil part of AI is the environmental part. And again, I'm a big advocate for green energy in general and that would solve the energy, the massive energy consumptions if we have green energy. And I'm a big advocate for atomic power. Let's get more atomic power. It's super fucking clean. Yeah, we have a little bit of ways to deal with. That's a smaller problem. That's what I believe, but I just.

[Matt Farah]

Don'T think it's like, good thing the people who have all the power in the AI companies are voting and supporting candidates that support green energy. Good thing that's happening.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But again, but, but, but again, but again, but again, AI people are voting different than YouTube. Google people that, you know what I mean?

[Matt Farah]

Like, I don't understand what that means. They're down with up the environment. They're 100.

[Johnny Lieberman]

What I'm saying is like, like is.

[Matt Farah]

Is they're saying the AI will figure out how to fix the environment. No, they've literally said. I know, I, I, they've literally said that.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Exactly.

[Zach]

Again, renewable energy.

[Johnny Lieberman]

What I'm trying to say, what I'm trying to say.

[Zach]

You got to turn AI off. I don't like the answer.

[Matt Farah]

People are listening to you on Apple.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Podcasts or some, you know, you know, they're, they're watching us on YouTube.

[Matt Farah]

All of them are bad.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Right. But AI is not more satanic than Google.

[Matt Farah]

It is. It. It is. Well, it's the same.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's the same. It's the same.

[Matt Farah]

Google is AI.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's the same.

[Matt Farah]

Okay.

[Johnny Lieberman]

So fun. That's, that's my point. I'm not, you know, that, that.

[Matt Farah]

It's like it started as a thing that wasn't evil, and then they got rid of the slogan, don't be evil, and then they became evil. Yes, that's what happens.

[Zach]

I think the big question though is because Google has a huge amount of power, huge amount of money influence, all those other things.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Zach]

It watches everything, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, it has its evil sides.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yes.

[Zach]

But did its existence lead to 20% of the job market disposal disappearing? I'm not saying your app is doing this. I'm saying I think that the reason.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Eliminated 2% of the job, the reason.

[Zach]

So many people are rightly concerned about AI is because people that are working on the development side of it at high levels are writing articles saying, oh, this is going to threaten, you know, legal industry, medical industry, finance industry, written.

[Matt Farah]

Industry, all entry level jobs, all these.

[Zach]

Jobs are going to be dissolved because of this.

[Matt Farah]

This.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I've read the articles like, don't get a computer science degree. It's just worthless.

[Zach]

I'm saying that's the difference between Google's existence and Google who owns Gemini. Like Google's AI existence or the other company's existence.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Again, yes, that's probably bad. I would, I would say, like, I'm just, I'm not, I'm never a Luddite. Like, I'm like, jobs come and jobs go. And I remember, you know, I was, you know, I was told very young, like, like, your career hasn't been invented yet. What you're gonna do for a living doesn't actually exist yet. And okay, car journalism existed, but like doing podcasts for a living, making car videos on the Internet, none of that stuff existed when I was 12. And I like cars. You know what I mean? Sure. And so, yes, destroying jobs obviously is bad, except for the fact that it.

[Matt Farah]

Wouldn'T be bad if the people were paid. If the people were paid to not work work, that would be fine. I'm 100% fine with that. If you want to replace all these people's jobs, pay them and pay them to stay home.

[Johnny Lieberman]

There is a utopian philosophy. I can't remember what it's called, but there is one where it's just like, yeah, if you have robots doing all the work, take the robots, labor and give it to the people.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. I mean like people need to buy food and shelter and cars and all these things. And if you're going to take their jobs away and funnel that fucking cash directly to Sam Altman and Elon Musk and all these assholes, it needs to come come back again.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Back to punk rock Tel B offer years ago. A maximum wage. We got a minimum wage. Let's have a maximum wage. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Have you heard my philosophy on that? If you earn a billion dollars.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

You get to a billion.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Right. The second you hit a billion dollars.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

You should get a trophy that says that you've won. Capitalism.

[Zach]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

And you have to forfeit everything over that because like, like a, like a bar at 2am Nothing good happens after a billion. Under a billion. You're buying Paganis and jets above a billion. You're buying senators.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I do not disagree. My thing is. And again this is like a billion's a nice number. But like this it was on, remember the old Bill Marshall. Not Bill, it was politically incorrect. So he had Jello B offer on and he had Jon Stewart on back way before the Daily show. This is like 25 years ago. And Jello said ever gonna have a minimum wage?

[Matt Farah]

Why not a maximum wage? $100,000 and you start giving it back.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And I remember John Stewart looked at me, goes a week. So it's like weird like okay, a billion. But like you know man, maybe you could do a lot of evil with 800 million.

[Matt Farah]

I don't know.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I don't know where it is. But here's the other thing is you.

[Matt Farah]

Gotta somewhere billion sounds like a nice round.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Why do they have to be such assholes? Like why not like be a billionaire? And like I mean some do but like you know, like just like feed people and educate people. And it seems to be ex wives that do that. Like Melinda Gates is great.

[Matt Farah]

Beezus X. Yeah, maybe like men, if.

[Johnny Lieberman]

You could make a billion dollars, it all goes to women.

[Matt Farah]

Cause that's back to bit better.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But like you know, we're hearing all these idiotic numbers from these banker asshole tech bros we talk to. And I'm telling my wife, I'm like all right, if we actually get this money, I get money to buy an INEOS and a G wagon. You take the risk, I turn money into debt. You give me money, I will have a maxed out credit card.

[Matt Farah]

My wife returns uneaten chips to the grocery store.

[Johnny Lieberman]

What? Yeah, she can do that?

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, you can. And, and she doesn't know what her time is worth. But she also beat Elon Musk in court so she can be in charge of whatever the she wants, but you.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Know what I mean?

[Matt Farah]

So, like, Zuckerman was like, you know, when I said, yo, Hannah, beat Elon in court. He goes, you know, half of the marital assets are yours.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I had a guy, he's going to remain nameless. But he's. He was like. He's like, hey, I played with your ass. Crap. It was really cool. He's like, start suing your partners now. I'm like, what? He goes, there's gonna be delusion. They're gonna. You. He's like, just start suing them now. Get it over with. And I'm like, like, we got six figures of investment. Like, it's. It's not much to sue. He's like, just.

[Matt Farah]

Just start the lawsuits.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Start the process.

[Matt Farah]

That's funny.

[Zach]

Is he a lawyer? It seems.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, you know, he. I'll leave his name out.

[Zach]

I'm not asking his name.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I just want to know his profession. That just seems aggressive, problematic, technocratic bullshit is his profession.

[Matt Farah]

Do you want to talk about the Diablo Concepts?

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Fuck. We have to do it on my stupid Instagram. Because it was a fucking. We transfer file that expired. I tried to email it to Zach.

[Matt Farah]

You got to write for the Road Rat, which is. Which is a nice treat. I really like the Road Rat. I pay for the Road Rat every month. They've never.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's not true.

[Matt Farah]

I pay for it once a year, and they send it a year. But there it is on the left. Okay.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Hey, Road Rat, I'd like to write for you.

[Johnny Lieberman]

You know, I will say this. This is the second thing I wrote for them. And years ago, I asked somebody, like, who wrote for the Road Rat? I'm like, how do you write for the Road Rat? And they were like, they ask you. You don't ask them. See, that's the thing. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

But maybe, you know, now that you said it out loud, now that I've put the. The Road Rat signal. Yeah. I don't think I'm allowed to. I think I'm not. I think for road and Track, I'm not allowed to.

[Zach]

Ah.

[Matt Farah]

I would ask Dan Pun for an exception.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, Dan. He wouldn't care.

[Matt Farah]

Dan's all right.

[Johnny Lieberman]

So this was. They were doing a 90s supercar issue, and I said, apparently, the best selling.

[Matt Farah]

Issue they've ever done. Not surprising.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Well, you know, he put Chris Harris on the COVID or his story on the COVID It helps.

[Matt Farah]

But Yeah, I don't know if everybody put that together, but it was a great cover.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, it was good. So, okay, I said, I have a story. Let me ask the guy. So years ago, a Motor Trend Car of the Year week and we, we always brought in guest judges. So in other words, we get accused of being bought off. And to try to alleviate that, Angus Mackenzie said we should bring in people from the industry and we make them judges. And that way if people say, how'd the vote go? They can say, I was in the room and I voted. It was kind of that we learned.

[Matt Farah]

A lot from them.

[Johnny Lieberman]

One of the guys, Tom Gale. Tom Gale was head of design at Chrysler for years.

[Matt Farah]

Years.

[Johnny Lieberman]

He was a Daimler Chrysler board member. But he was also like the head of international when he was the VP of design for Chrysler. For like he did the PT Cruiser, he did the 94 Ram truck, he.

[Matt Farah]

Did the dog with a schnoz like that.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Farah]

And so injection molded buttons galore.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And he did all the. Well, you know, but he did, he did all those killer Chrysler concepts. So whenever we're at lunch, I was like, tomorrow, show me some shit. You know, he has laptop and he'd show us stuff and then he'd show something really cool and I'd be like. And he shut the laptop and smile at me. Anyways, one day he shows me basically this photo which was actually. Go, go to the.

[Matt Farah]

This photo looks like basically a Diablo.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, pretty much. This pretty much is Diablo. Keep going. Basic.

[Matt Farah]

Basically that photo, okay, this is like a rebodied countach.

[Johnny Lieberman]

So he shows me if you maybe.

[Matt Farah]

Go one more Ugly.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's so bad. Yeah. Okay, so go back to the left. Sorry, go back to the left. So it's basically this car which is. This was Gandini's. It's called the P140. The Gandini P140. And this. Or P132. Excuse me. And this was Gandini's proposal for the Countas successor. The photo we're looking at right now is right when Chrysler bought Lamborghini. This is like 87.

[Matt Farah]

It's so and so. He showed me a picture of this car. It's like a bad movie sitting on.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Lee Iacocca's Tuscan villa stone backyard with Lea Coca staring at it sideways. I'm like, what the fuck is that? He goes, this is what they were gonna do when we bought them. And we said, let's have a design proposal process. And if you go to the next image. So this is the Chrysler design dome in Royal Oak, Michigan, which is longer there.

[Matt Farah]

But this looks much more like the side profile of the actual Diablo.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And so my whole story is basically like the Diablo was designed in Michigan by American dudes. And then if you go one more photo, this car is the white car is the tooling model. And so they took this and they shipped it along with a guy named Bill Dayton and he went to San Agada. And when you have a tooling model, this means you build your bucks and your dies and your everything around this car. So the Italians couldn't change anything because they're all like really good friends with Gandini and they didn't really care. Look, they just like Gandini. But the other problem was Gandini was actively the actual car. I don't know if it's on Instagram, but it was two sided. So one side looked like that, which became the Chisetta Morador or whatever that thing was. And then the other side looked like the EB110. And eventually he sold it. He first sold it to Maserati for the Chabusco and that project flamed out when Fiat bought them. And then he revived it into the original EB110 10. And then he would. But he wouldn't make any changes like, like that ugly Diablo. Tom asked him to make changes and he just, he was, you know, it was like, the maestro has spoken.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And they're like, we're not.

[Matt Farah]

The guy's done some dope shit, but that car is ugly. Yeah, like that's an ugly car.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And so anyway, so these photos were never seen by the public. Like basically this was a. You can see how it's all in English on the top there. These are the captions for the photos. And if you go back to that first one, there was a post it note literally on a picture. This is from Bill Dayton. And he and Tom said, look, one day someone's going to say, you know, someone's going to say Gandini really did all this. Chrysler had nothing to do with it. And he goes, make a book so we can preserve it. And one day a journalist will come.

[Matt Farah]

Along and one day a kid or a wild eyed scientist is going to come along around asking about this book.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. And so I said, tom, can I have the book? And he said, you know, Gandini's dead. A lot of the guys that designed the Diablo are dying and they're dying unnamed. And so could you write a story which tells like the Chrysler side? And he was very upfront in the story. He said, like, you Know, we hit it for a lot of reasons. One, like, we didn't think Lamborghini customers wanted a car designed by the minivan people. You know, they're right. Yeah. But it was funny. He said at the end they slapped on a Designo Marcel Gandini badge on the side.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, they did that. Anyway, after.

[Johnny Lieberman]

After Bill Dayton left Italy and he's like. That was like the final thumb in the eye to us, you guys. But yeah, it's a. It's cool. And if you keep going a little bit, you'll see what I really liked. And I want to.

[Matt Farah]

I don't know, I want to do.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Something with them, but. Yeah. So these are original sketches from. From this guy, Bill Dayton. William Dayton. And like, this is cool because this was sketched. I think it says 89, but you see as a VT. So the VT didn't actually come out out till 93. So they were. They knew they were going to do the viscous traction thing. And then.

[Matt Farah]

Where does it say vt?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, go back to.

[Matt Farah]

It says VT on there. Where?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, right there. Right there.

[Zach]

It's like here.

[Matt Farah]

Colorblind. Yeah, colorblindness.

[Zach]

So I can barely see.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's. And keep going. And then you have these awesome. Like, here's the pop up headlight.

[Matt Farah]

This is the plan view.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Cool. So That's a Jeep CJ7.

[Matt Farah]

Sealed beam, but quality.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And then keep going. I love this one where they're like driving lamps, you know, for some reason, we had to move them over 3 inches because of some, you know, crash safety thing or whatever. Wow.

[Matt Farah]

And it's just really cool.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But you see what's in English, like, it's not in Italian. Gandini did not speak English.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No one at Gandini's touring design house, you know, it was all. It was all done. This is great. Where do we put the chimsol? Here's four places we could put the third brake light.

[Matt Farah]

That's really neat. Isn't that cool? Where did it end up? At the base of the windshield. Just like Countach, I think.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, I think so.

[Matt Farah]

But.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But I wish I could get rid of mine.

[Matt Farah]

Stinks.

[Johnny Lieberman]

You could. Who's gonna.

[Matt Farah]

No, re. It's. It's like into molded.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, yeah. It's molded in. And then like. Oh, this is great.

[Matt Farah]

The key.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Everybody who's ever owned a Diablo is like, it's the worst key ever made.

[Matt Farah]

But here's.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Here's where it came from.

[Zach]

It's the.

[Matt Farah]

It's the arch articulating key. It stinks.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And Sergio had a problem where like the Countach key will start the Diablo or vice versa.

[Matt Farah]

No way.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I think it's jammed in.

[Matt Farah]

So when we had Mustangs back in the day. Yeah. If we ever saw another one, we would try our keys like a third of the time they worked. I found out from a dealer tech that there was only 12 Ford keys.

[Johnny Lieberman]

So.

[Zach]

Good.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, I. I probably. There's only two Diablo.

[Matt Farah]

You know how often back then.

[Johnny Lieberman]

So funny.

[Matt Farah]

What if they're all keyed the same?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Sergio said he was able to start. I'm not getting this right. He was able to start the Countach with the Diablo key. All right.

[Matt Farah]

I'm going to bring my Countach key. Don't do it.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Don't do it. Because it gets well. Okay. K to Countach is probably fine.

[Matt Farah]

I bet you all Countaches are the same key.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Probably.

[Matt Farah]

Why would they not be? It'd be the most Lamborghini thing ever.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. I'm gonna. Mike. Mike Countach key. Have you seen it?

[Johnny Lieberman]

All right.

[Matt Farah]

It looks like it's like a master lock key. It's about an inch long.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

It's tiny. Crazy.

[Johnny Lieberman]

If you. If you go back to the key. Zack, for a second to the right. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

It's so key.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's the same key.

[Matt Farah]

It's the same key.

[Johnny Lieberman]

They just made a cool flippy. Like it's articulated.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. They needed Mark Newson is what they really needed, honestly.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But I want to do something like make T shirts out of this or something like that because these images are cool and like, you know, they're just.

[Matt Farah]

Again, these images that would make just the center image there would make a great T shirt.

[Zach]

Actually.

[Matt Farah]

It would be cool. Seven people would buy it, but it was cool.

[Johnny Lieberman]

These photos. And again, I have a hundred of them. These photos sat in a shelf in Tom Gale's house. On a shelf in Tom Gale's house since 1989 is when wonder what else.

[Matt Farah]

Is on Tom Gill's shelf.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Well, he said this is the only time he did this because he knew one day he'd have to tell this story. But yeah. And the other thing, I will figure out a way to get you the actual PDF next time I come on Miura 2.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. You showed it to me.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I showed it to you. Yeah. But Mura 2, they were going to do a Yalpa successor and they settled on.

[Matt Farah]

It's like a Mustang 2. But Mirror 2 is not. It's not great. Like it's not.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, it's not anything but. But it's pictures Of a car that existed that no one's ever seen.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

You've seen it?

[Matt Farah]

I saw it.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Tommy Kendall's seen it.

[Matt Farah]

The Senator for the Road Red.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Seen it?

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. Well, anyway, I'll save it. But it is, it is a cool.

[Matt Farah]

I liked the Miura concept from maybe like 20 2006, 7, 8, something like that. That was bitching. Beautiful. Yeah, I like that a lot.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That was beautiful.

[Zach]

They showed.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Have maybe not should have, but that was cool. Yeah, but a little too close.

[Matt Farah]

Zach, should we do a couple questions before we. Before we fuck off out of here?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Are these like people that have heard us drunk arguing about AI questions?

[Zach]

These were asked before.

[Matt Farah]

No.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Okay.

[Matt Farah]

Okay.

[Johnny Lieberman]

All right. We don't need that one.

[Zach]

Oh, yeah, that was just for you.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, we can look at that. Okay.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, okay.

[Matt Farah]

Sorry, I haven't pre read these. Okay, here, this is like. Like this one. Tom Maranello of Rage against the Machina.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, it must be him.

[Matt Farah]

Rage against the Machina would be kind of a dope shirt, actually.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Would be good.

[Matt Farah]

That's like your position about the electric Ferrari. Rage against the machina.

[Zach]

Rage against the machina.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I'm just kind of raging as a relatively dull interior says.

[Matt Farah]

There have been some postings recently of the Bugatti Galibier concept and it got me thinking that it was a missed opportunity. Opportunity. You know, I actually rode in that car. Did you? It's a running driving car and I wrote in it it was a sedan. Yeah, it was. It felt like a. It was like the nicest Jaguar S type you've ever been in.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I've been in some pretty nice S types, but.

[Zach]

That's.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's great.

[Matt Farah]

It was actually kind of rad. Okay. I mean, it was kind of rad, but we. It was a concept. So you didn't like go fast, but like it was a very nice sedan.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, it was. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Okay, so the question is, what are that. It's a missed opportunity. What is? Some other missed opportunities.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Mirror two.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Yalpa two Mustang three mid engine Corvettes.

[Johnny Lieberman]

From the 90s or mid engine cores from the 50s.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, yeah. All Motorama GM products.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, the.

[Matt Farah]

The Buick Thundercat, the Maybach Accelero.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's the biggest misogynist of all of them, right? Exelero.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, Exelero. Is that what it was?

[Johnny Lieberman]

You know, I saw that car in person recently. It's in Germany. Guy owns it.

[Matt Farah]

Does it run?

[Zach]

Is it driving?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Full driver. It is. It's even cooler in person because it's like it's like 19ft long.

[Matt Farah]

You know what that is? It's like the modern version of the round door Rolls Peterson kind of.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

You know what I mean?

[Johnny Lieberman]

But, but, but like. Yeah, it's just so much, so much. It's just. It's a sexy car. They should have done. That's the one. I mean, that's the best. I mean. Yeah.

[Zach]

What was that Cadillac 16 thing they did?

[Matt Farah]

Oh, 16.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Cadillac 16. It was spelled out the word 16, but also Cadillac cl.

[Matt Farah]

Cl.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That was the greatest. That's the greatest interior ever.

[Matt Farah]

Put Cadillac. I think nine out of ten missed concepts come from General Motors from 1992 to 2007.

[Zach]

I think the CL. I think the CL is more beautiful than the 16.

[Matt Farah]

So fire.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Look at this thing all day every day and then search cl.

[Matt Farah]

How do you not Interior.

[Johnny Lieberman]

So you know. You know Guel.

[Matt Farah]

That's essentially the same exact profile as a Rolls Royce Dawn.

[Zach]

Yeah, I think it's even better.

[Johnny Lieberman]

You know. You know guy. Yeah. So he did the entire interior and it's. It's like olive wood. It's. I. I was there. Oh yeah. The one at Pebble Beach. Go. Yeah, right there. That's the one. I was there when they, when they.

[Matt Farah]

That is so fire, dude.

[Johnny Lieberman]

So this was outdoors. Go up, go up.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, there on the right.

[Johnny Lieberman]

So I was there when they drove this thing in.

[Matt Farah]

Oh yeah. That's sick. Yeah, it looks great.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I was there when they drove this thing in and we're outside and the air was sucked out of the room.

[Matt Farah]

It was, it was.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It was just in Insane. So the cl. The El Mirage. Remember the El Mirage? We came out. It was the next year.

[Matt Farah]

Nobody does a concept and fumbles the bag. Like Cadillac.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

I mean nobody. And this is a company that builds awesome cars. Like, you know what I mean? Like, no disrespect to the black wings, but like they. It ain't that.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Do you remember even the non catal. There was that one. There was a one that Denison did. It was a really beautiful. It kind of became the. The CT5. But there was a beautiful concept car where it had like a luggage shelf that lifted in the back.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But do you remember the rear drive Buick on the Camaro platform? Like why didn't they do that?

[Matt Farah]

Was it a Wildcat or.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It was whatever. It had like a numerical name. It was like GN Grand. It was like GN07 or something.

[Matt Farah]

That was fire.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I remember that. The New York show they had. They had a coupe and a convertible and it was on the Camaro ATS platform. So it's basically an E46 M3 modern chassis with a gorgeous little Buick body. Also, same era. Those. Remember those little Nissan rear drivers?

[Matt Farah]

Oh, yeah. When they did the b. The. The bzx, Those two box designs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like all a great era.

[Johnny Lieberman]

All. We can do the whole show.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, yeah. Let's go back up patreon.com the Smoking Tire podcast. If you want to ask us questions for the show, get the live show, get the show early, get the show without ads and get more show. I'm saying.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Okay, hang on. I blow horns. What cars have you driven that blew you away at how good they were? On track as well. On street something, you drive a thousand miles and then thrash on track. Black Wing McLaren 750.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, yeah. I. I got lucky. I got to drive the F80.

[Matt Farah]

I. I would.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That. That is. It's such a great driving, like, street and track car, like, equally rad in both. And I believe that. And totally different. Yeah, I believe that. Just.

[Matt Farah]

Wow.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I believe that.

[Matt Farah]

I just think it's very ugly.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Again, once you sit through the Arrow presentation, you're like, oh, but it was. I was sitting with Dan Pund and Ezra Dyer.

[Matt Farah]

Imagine being at the bar and you. You put that Zippo, like, Ferrari key down the bar, and this girl sits next to you and goes, wow, that's a Ferrari. And you go, let me tell you about the aerodynamics. They leave, that's fine.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But then you still have the F80. It's cool. But I was sitting. So that was the three Americans, me, Ezra and Dan Pund on the launch. And we're sitting there at dinner, like, the day after. It's kind of like drinking Lambusco and talking about how great everything is. And we're like, is anyone gonna believe us when we tell them how good this car is? And, like, you know, Ezra and Dan were like, nah, no one will believe it doesn't matter. They'll just, you know. But it was just. It was just so mind blowingly good.

[Matt Farah]

I believe that it's good. I believe that from the driver's seat, it's unbelievable. I believe that. I buy that a thousand percent.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's the one where I'm like, I.

[Matt Farah]

Just will not be convinced that it looks good better in person.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But. Okay, okay, that's fine.

[Matt Farah]

Fine.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, yeah. Yep.

[Matt Farah]

It's fine.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Keep.

[Matt Farah]

Let's. Let's keep going. What do we got? More.

[Johnny Lieberman]

More down there? I'll answer that one about beating up Zuckerman. Hang on. A second.

[Matt Farah]

Food spot tour. Okay. Okay.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Sorry.

[Matt Farah]

Hang on. I want to find something really good. Yeah, I hope you. I'm not trying to. Just, Just. Just wait. Draw out time here. Whatever, dude.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I'm. I'm not driving anywhere. Okay, here we go.

[Matt Farah]

I. I demand a recount. I like that. Excuse me.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Bourbon burp.

[Matt Farah]

That's fucking aggressive. On the way back up. Wow. Spicy. By the way, we didn't even announce 2.0.

[Johnny Lieberman]

We didn't announce this one. This one is 63. It's fire percent.

[Matt Farah]

The second one we drank was the most delicious. So.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. Yeah, this one.

[Matt Farah]

This is good.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But that one was, like, tremendous.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, God. Side. Sidebar. The Porsche is at BBI for service 7,500 miles. Oil change, filter change, cabin filter change. And Betim and Mitch are working together on my cooling tune request. So do I need. We talked. We've talked about this. We've talked about it so many times.

[Johnny Lieberman]

You want your car to cool better. Yes.

[Matt Farah]

No. The bottom line is my car cools.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Fine, but could be better.

[Matt Farah]

It's so fast. Yeah. With the. With the motor that in order to activate the sport cooling program.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh.

[Matt Farah]

Which is set up for the stock engine to kick it into sport cooling. I have to go so dangerously fast.

[Zach]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

Okay.

[Johnny Lieberman]

So knock it down a few. We're trying to lower the threshold.

[Matt Farah]

Not miles per hour. Throttle position.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Throttle position.

[Matt Farah]

I'm trying to knock it down to like half, three quarter, throw throttle. For the sport cooling program. Yeah, anyway.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, anyway.

[Matt Farah]

7,500 mile service. New Blackstone test. I'll have your results. I'm sure it'll be clean as a whistle. Cool. I demand a recount. Says for years 300 horsepower was regarded as the correct amount.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It was.

[Matt Farah]

Is that still true as cars have gotten heavier due to increased tech and safety features? No, I think I.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

No, I think 300 horsepower was correct when cars were around 3,000 pounds. 300 horsepower and 3,000 pounds is a very nice car.

[Johnny Lieberman]

My Bill Gates moment was when I publicly wrote, and this is 21 years ago, that 420 horsepower is the perfect amount because I was geeking off on the Audi RS4 and you don't need any more power than that. That was my Bill Gates moment because now when my truck goes into front wheel drive mode, it makes best reference. 410. You know what I mean? Where you like. No one will ever need more than 600.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Oh, right.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. He was in the EP files, wasn't he?

[Zach]

Might want to tweak before he was.

[Matt Farah]

In the EP files.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Bill Gates said, you'll never. No one who could ever need more than 640k of memory.

[Matt Farah]

My Bill Gates moment is now. Hey, Jeff, how do I keep my wife from knowing I got an STD from a Russian hooker.

[Zach]

Moment.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Right. You're right. I'm trying to help out.

[Matt Farah]

Maybe we gotta retire that expression.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, there was a patent.

[Matt Farah]

Sorry. My Elon Musk moment. No, no, sorry, sorry.

[Johnny Lieberman]

The head of the US Patent Office in like 1892 suggested closing it down because everything that needed to be invented has already been invented. So that was my moment. My U.S. postal. Yeah. Whatever the Pinofrina Batista and the Rimats make, that's the correct amount of horse.

[Matt Farah]

I think with modern tires. If you've got a car that is, let's call it a good sports car weight, 3000-3500lbs is good sports car weight for new cars these days is great. 400 horsepower right there is the real.

[Zach]

I think you can do like a 9 to 1 ratio. 9 to 1 by 9 and kind.

[Matt Farah]

Of land the race. So WRL, where we raced, right. In WRL, the GTO class, which is a higher one class above what Johnny is. I were. Was nine to one.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

That was the, that was the formula.

[Johnny Lieberman]

We were like.

[Matt Farah]

It was a 10.5 to 1, I believe. And they do it based on wheel horsepower, not crank horsepower.

[Zach]

Oh, okay.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Because they have a.

[Matt Farah]

They have a chassis dyno there and if they pull you for scrutineering their chassis dyno. So. So for us it was, I believe, 2820, I think it was £3,000. Pounds. 280 wheel horsepower was.

[Zach]

The Volkswagen shows up and they get pulled from that dyno. You know, they have their secret diesel tune.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Nagaro Blue Buzz. What front wheel drive car would be better as rear wheel drive and what rear wheel drive car would be better as a front wheel drive?

[Johnny Lieberman]

This sounds like homework. It does sound like homework, actually. No, no.

[Matt Farah]

That's a great response to these sort of hypothetical questions.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, rear wheel drive car would be better. Better as front wheel drive.

[Matt Farah]

Okay, I'm gonna say something you're not gonna like. Okay. There's a car, there's a few cars that are better because they're worse. Oh. You know what I'm saying? Sure. And the chief among them, in my opinion, is the Renault R5 Turbo 2.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's a terrible car which drives awful.

[Matt Farah]

It's like badass. It looks cool. It drives.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's when I realized you can sell cars that were not Actually engineered. They just put stuff in and screwed it to together.

[Matt Farah]

So if you, if that went back to just the Renault R5, probably be fine.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I would say so. I'm so. I don't know when this happened to me, but I got, I got so into. When I hear front wheel drive, I don't think of like understeer, I just think of packaging. So I'm like, well, like, you know, Audis have a lot of advantages being front wheel drive, you know, the bigger trunks and the packaging and more rear legroom and you know, but then it's like, oh, but they understood like crazy. And then, you know, Audi PR is constantly like, stop talking about how our cars drive. Yeah. You know.

[Matt Farah]

Which I've.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I've dealt with for many years.

[Matt Farah]

If you know, you know. Yeah, that's right.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Do you have to always mention it?

[Matt Farah]

It's like, dude, yes. Stop talking about how our cars drive is the one of the funniest things I've ever heard in my life.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I had to do it.

[Zach]

I had.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And again, here's. I'll give you a great example.

[Matt Farah]

Example.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I'll give you a great example.

[Matt Farah]

So insider. But like, oh my God, is that cold and funny.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But it's true, right? Like, like, like we, we recently did M5 Wagon and RS6, right.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, it must have been tough.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That must have been tough. But it was, it was, it was, it was two of us and you know, just driving wise, not talking about.

[Zach]

Anything else, that's a real unhappy Goldilocks situation.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Driving wise, the M5 was better on a canyon road than the Audi. Sure it is.

[Matt Farah]

I know, sure.

[Johnny Lieberman]

The Audi ran into the typical Audi stuff where the engines in front of the front axle and it, you know, the weight distribution is 56, 44 and the BMW is 50, 50, even though it's heavy.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And it drove better. And man, the Internet was like so unpleased with my analyses. They're like, obviously the Audi's better, you know. No, I agree with you.

[Matt Farah]

It does.

[Johnny Lieberman]

If you drove them both, you would.

[Matt Farah]

And again, the M5 is great. If you've never seen a Panamera in your life. Yes, the M5 is dope. If the Panamera is wiped. If, if. So did you see the end of. Of Begonia if someone goes and deletes The Panamera, the M5 is sick. Yeah. But in a world, in a world where the Porsche Panamera is a thing, I.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Again, I've said this since the Panamera came out, it's really annoying because it can't lose a comparison.

[Matt Farah]

It can't lose. There's no.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Like, Even when the E63 was at its mightiest, I remember we did, we did, we did Rs6, E63 and Panamera Turbo or Turbo S, whatever.

[Matt Farah]

It must have been a joke.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Well, on a canyon road, honestly, the E63 and the Panamera hung. They were, they were cool. But then my buddy of mine happened to like, he rented out streets of Willow. So we took them there and it was like the other two were on their door handles and the Porsche was a Porsche, you know? Yeah. All right, all right, all right.

[Matt Farah]

We gotta keep. We, we have to keep an eye on my thing.

[Zach]

Sorry, can I tell a story from chat really quick? That's very funny. You're talking about the Countach keys, you know, thing. This is a key situation with one of our frequent commenters, X's. She brought an S10 Blazer to best Buy. They installed her stereo in the wrong truck. And the lady whose Blazer got the stereo called and reported a stolen car to the police. But when the police showed up, it was in the parking lot in a different spot after this new stereo was installed. So this one went in and said.

[Matt Farah]

So someone dropped off their car to get a stereo.

[Zach]

Dropped off a Chevy S10, Chevy S10. Handed the key to Best Buy, said, the car is out there. They walked outside, they got in a different truck, started it, pulled it in, parked it, installed the stereo, parked it back outside.

[Johnny Lieberman]

This is why. Absolute. This is why. And again, I'm an old fucker.

[Matt Farah]

I'm old.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I'm old. I know I'm old. But this is why. When I'm talking to like 20 year olds and they're telling me how shitty modern cars are and cars used to be so much better, I'm like, you're so high. Well, look, I drove an S10, you asshole.

[Matt Farah]

No, look, there's a, there's a, there's a. You're right. And also like, there's a, there's a tipping point. And actually this leads us to Koji. Koji.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Koji.

[Matt Farah]

Lately I've been seeing the 2000-2010 era of cars being described as the driver's era or the last great era of analog cars before everything went like fully digital but still had enough performance to keep up with modern machinery. Where do you stand on, on that? I kind of agree.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I, I totally different. You do? Yeah. Look, you know, here, here's what I would say. Like, you go back to the 60s, right? All the cars suck to drive. Except for 911s and maybe the occasional E type, there was nothing good.

[Matt Farah]

You go before the good one again.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

One more whack of the good one.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That would be this one. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Okay.

[Johnny Lieberman]

You go back before the 60s.

[Matt Farah]

No.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No car except for the Gullwing drove good cars were all terrible.

[Matt Farah]

It's true.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

In the 50s the gullwing was the only good driving car that existed.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It was, it was.

[Matt Farah]

It's actually no.

[Johnny Lieberman]

The 356.

[Matt Farah]

356. 356.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Look. 356B20 Aurelia.

[Matt Farah]

But it's like a very small number of cars.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's a handful. Yeah. So like cars always actually sucked and they actually are just getting better and better to drive. So I, I can't agree with that. Were there great cars from the 2000 to 20002010 error. Absolutely, absolutely. Were there great cars from 2010 to 2020? Yeah, double absolutely. In fact, I seem to remember the 997 GT3 RS 4.0 was a 2011 model. And like mother.

[Matt Farah]

I'd. Mother. I mean techn. I'm gonna call technicality flag on that play. That's. That's a. That's the. The final edition of a car that was fundamentally before.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I remember the 20002019 Porsche Speedster being like the greatest 911.

[Matt Farah]

No, they're dope. Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I'm just saying like, like, you know what I mean?

[Zach]

I don't think you can. I agree with Johnny because in the, early in the, in that era of 20, 2010 you had battle bad paddle shifted transmissions. Then the next decade you had good ones. E Pass started getting really good toward the end of, you know, 2018, 1920. But it was pretty bad.

[Johnny Lieberman]

11911 like a Carrera S from 2011. That steering was trash.

[Matt Farah]

Terrific.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But by 2019, the end of the 991.

[Matt Farah]

So. But, but, but also. Yeah, but also. Yeah, if you want to drive stick. And yes, Porsche carrying it on Aston Martin makes some attempts here and there. Other, other you, you.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Subaru, two stick models. Toyota.

[Matt Farah]

Right.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Many sticks.

[Matt Farah]

But I mean, look, there are a ton of amazing cars in the 2000s that are manual and are. It's not necessarily enough performance to keep up with modern machinery. It's enough reliability and they're not gonna keep up. They're not a pain in the ass. It's like the air conditioning will work. They'll still feel pretty quick. It's. It's like those cars are getting into the classic vibes and When a car gets into classic vibes, you're driving it at 8/10. You're not comparing it to its peers anymore. It's a classic mindset. And so a360 with a stick or a Gallardo with a stick, or an R8 with a stick or one of those Astons, it's a neo classic. And so you're now moving it to, I'm driving this thing at 8, 10. I'm looking for feedback, I'm looking for engaging with machinery. And for that I sort of do agree with this sentiment. Like most people can't afford a brand new 911, especially these days. Especially these days. But I kind of do. Like across the board, every exotic manufacturer and every sports car manufacturer was selling a manual transmission car, you know, for in that window, you know, very few. And you have switches, there's a GPS screen, but you've got key fob.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It didn't work very well.

[Matt Farah]

But you've got key fobs, you've got switches for stuff.

[Johnny Lieberman]

The counter I'll say to that is I got to drive a 2009 gated V10 manual R8 versus a modern current second generation R8.

[Matt Farah]

How was that?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, the second gen one was like 30 years better. It was just not like, yeah, I like a gator shifter. And here's the thing, I bought a manual recently. All these little fucks on the Internet, they're like, oh, manual, manual.

[Matt Farah]

Well, I have a long commute so.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I had to get an automatic. Like I actually I bought, last car I bought was a manual. So I like manuals. The dual clutch, everything. Every single way a car can be better. The second gen R8 was better than the gated manual V10 damping, steering feel. Yeah. Ride quality, every power, every single metric there is. And I was, and I was just like, wow, there's only, you know, 10 years or whatever, maybe 12 years between these cars. One feels like a time capsule and was, you know, you keep saying 8, 10, like maybe 7 10. The other one you could pound the shit out of.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, well, I think actually you. Time capsule is a good word because one of the things I like about manual transmission cars is they are like a time capsule. They're frozen in that. They're not dependent on the latest technology or anything like that. Like that's one of the things I like about them. But it's just a mindset is different.

[Johnny Lieberman]

You know, it is, it is just.

[Matt Farah]

I'm looking at my phone, we've ordered food because we're having dinner after the show. Are we.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I think we're too drunk to eat.

[Zach]

Is that a thing? I've never experienced that.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No. But I'm gonna. But I'm gonna eat whatever we eat and, and then blow through my diet and be like, ooh, there's a chick fil A. I can get like something horrible to eat.

[Matt Farah]

Well, we have good food coming, but not for a minute. I'm sorry. I'm looking at my phone. I just want, I just don't want to leave somebody standing because the shop is now closed and I don't have people. Yeah, here you go. Yeah, no, I think if you want a nice analog. A car that. Like a car from 2000. Like my NSX. Great example. Great example. Yeah, my NS NSX is, is, is new enough that shit works. It starts every time you turn the key.

[Johnny Lieberman]

NSX was so.

[Matt Farah]

It was great. It was great. And the air conditioning was great. The radio was fine. Like you could use it as a car.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yes.

[Matt Farah]

But certain things about it, the steering ratio, the brake feel felt really old. And like, that's okay because I. That was a vibe I was going for. It was like, like, it's okay. If you get a 2011 stick shift R8. Certain things are going to feel really old. Yeah. But it's going to be modern enough that you're not going to have to worry about other things that might be annoying.

[Johnny Lieberman]

The solution is if you get a, you know, a first gen R8 manual, don't drive the second gen. Well, that's the other thing.

[Matt Farah]

Are you doing a compare and test comparison test or not?

[Johnny Lieberman]

It was just, you know, I said my buddy Misha had, you know, he got rid of it, but he had a gated manual. And I happen to have the last R8 press car in California. And I'm like, let's go drive him. And it was, you know, he was trying to, you know, like, oh, my car. And I'm like, oh, everything's better on the new one, you know, so.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, Ralph Lauren's backwards 30 mile fence. It's only about five miles, but. Yeah, yeah, yeah, good one. Looking for a 50k daily driver. I've narrowed it down to the GR Corolla and the Civic Type R. I live in Palos Verdes. That's in la. And I'm mainly running around town. So outside in the parking lot, I am driving the Integra Type S. Yes.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I have it booked in a couple weeks.

[Matt Farah]

What a fabulous automobile. This is a fabulous automobile.

[Johnny Lieberman]

They took. Yeah. So Acura has no ability to market but they basically, they took the Civic Type R, which is really good, and they sprinkled $5,000 into key areas and.

[Zach]

That $5,000 seat, comfort, stereo.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah. And the ride is like, it rides like the last gen Civic Type R, which is great.

[Matt Farah]

The ride, the looks, the hatchback, the seats, the stereo.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, I agree with you.

[Matt Farah]

The one we're driving is the new silver. Yeah, it's $54,000.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I'm getting this car in like a month or two.

[Matt Farah]

This car is so fucking great. If I want wanted a car.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Like I'm obligated to buy stupid things for the lulz.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Sure.

[Matt Farah]

Right, sure. But if I just wanted a car and I was an enthusiast. Holy shit. Does this slam dunk this thing?

[Johnny Lieberman]

So to answer this guy's question, I, that was. Those are my two choices.

[Matt Farah]

The Corolla is also great. No hate on the Corolla.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Those are my two choices. Was at the time the Acura didn't exist. So it was GR Corolla or the Civic. And I preferred the GR Corolla. Corolla. Had I waited a few months, I probably would have gotten the Acura.

[Matt Farah]

Honestly, for a daily in la, I'd rather have the Acura. Yeah, the Corolla has a few things going for it. The steering is so sharp.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Steering's better.

[Matt Farah]

The all wheel drive, you can kind of huck.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's all that. And again, I, I've had so much.

[Matt Farah]

You can tune both.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I've had so much fun.

[Matt Farah]

You smaller footprint.

[Johnny Lieberman]

You got to drive my car. You really gotta. I should have really gotta drive my car. We got it. Let's do a thing. I'll drive your Porsche, you drive my car. Now we know we'll do two.

[Matt Farah]

You want to take advantage of my racetrack membership? Yes. Let's go.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Let's go.

[Matt Farah]

But anyways to tax deduction.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I, I, I, Everything's a tax deduction, man. When you're an Escort.

[Matt Farah]

LLC wife.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But you can't. Here's the point though. You can't go wrong. Now he's saying you can get the CR at MSRP and you're paying. Don't pay adm. Just, just, just. It's not worth it for the Civic.

[Matt Farah]

Listen, I, I think you can get an Integra Type S for sticker. I wouldn't pay ADM for a Type R. So I can get an Integra for sticker.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Take the 5K. ADM, put it in the Integra. Just get the Acura. Yeah, and it's, it's, yeah, here's the crazy part. The car you have is a 2025. There's improvements on the 26. And they were like, I don't think it is. No, no, I guarantee. Because they were like, do you want to wait? And I'm like, what does it change?

[Matt Farah]

400 miles? Miles on it. It's brand new. It's 25. Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And they were like. It was one of those things where they were like, are you sure you don't want to wait for the 26? And I was like, they told me the changes and it's just whatever.

[Matt Farah]

It's just stuff.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's nothing. Nothing performance wise. It's all interior. And I was like, no, I love this car.

[Matt Farah]

I did a road, you know, we. I. I did the scouting trip for the road and track Desert 600, which is coming in April. Come drive with me. It's gonna be fun. 1500 miles. Beautiful, beautiful drive. It was great.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And I.

[Zach]

Give me your phone and unlock it.

[Matt Farah]

And I did a. I drove an E. Ray.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, my God.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, here's.

[Matt Farah]

He's.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Here you go. Sorry.

[Matt Farah]

Which is fine. And he raised a very nice car.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I haven't driven it, but I hear good things.

[Matt Farah]

It's interesting. It's an interesting car. It's. It's not for me, but it's an interesting car. But, man, I was. I was driving this. This Type S around. I was like, oh, this is the. This is the car. The ergonomics are like, ace.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, my God.

[Matt Farah]

Really good.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That interior, that Civic interior is great. Is shockingly like, again, that to me, that civic interior is sportier than the new Ferrari interior.

[Matt Farah]

You know, some of that stuff. Those vents. The vents are amazed. These are almost like pretty similar to like the zinger vents.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yes. Yes. Yeah. It's so good.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, wait, did you have a. You had to go in the 21C since I last saw you. You drove the silver car.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I drove it for 500 miles.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, you drove it on like a rally.

[Johnny Lieberman]

A rally. It was interesting.

[Matt Farah]

That car is cool as shit.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's amazing.

[Matt Farah]

I really am very interested in what those guys are doing.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's a tragedy. Not tragedy. That's the wrong word.

[Matt Farah]

I don't know.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I'm drunk. I wrote my review and I kind of reviewed it like a normal car. And what I should have been was like, holy fucking shit. This startup company, they've never built an engine before.

[Matt Farah]

So I didn't do that. So I, I. My angle from my review, which was for the print book. Yeah, yeah. Was that the car is Actually, a side hustle. The factory, the car they. They built the most interesting car perhaps of this decade.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

As a side hustle for their factory.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Incidental. They don't need you to doing it. One of them kind of likes cars a little bit.

[Matt Farah]

That's. So you got the tour where you.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Saw the alien bones being built, but.

[Matt Farah]

Like, yeah, I'm gonna have a go. You know, the silver car that you and I both drove that made all the rounds is the low drag, which looks cool.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Top speed car. Yeah, looks cool.

[Matt Farah]

You know, it's fine. But I really want to drive the wing car.

[Johnny Lieberman]

So here's. You know, you say this all the time, and I've never really agreed with you, but you're always like. Like, they just sell that to people. This is the first time I drove a car where like, literally the second I got to full throttle, I had to break. Didn't matter where I was. Nothing moves like that.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, it's very different.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Even the F80, which was terrific.

[Matt Farah]

Right.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And it's also 1250 horsepower. It's 1234 horsepower. And the Zinger is 1250.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But most of that's from the engine on the Ferrari. The zinger gets 500 horsepower to the front motors.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

So the acceleration. And it's light. It's light. Like it's gotta be less than everything else.

[Matt Farah]

Cause it's just.

[Johnny Lieberman]

There's nothing. It's all that, you know, creative 3D printed bird bone hollow evolutionary bullshit.

[Matt Farah]

The HR Geiger goodness. Yeah, yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And so like the rapidity of that, like, it's the power plus the light, plus the electric part, like a plaid is very.

[Matt Farah]

It's like a warp speed, Mr. Sulu kind of tunnel vision thing that happens. That is extremely unique.

[Johnny Lieberman]

So. So a plaid, a Tesla Plaid, is 1020 horsepower, weighs 5000 pounds.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

This is 1250. And they're saying like 3600. And they don't. Like, they're not Italian. They're not going to start lying, like, as their first gambit.

[Matt Farah]

So it's probably actually £3,600.

[Johnny Lieberman]

So it's. I don't know where you can. I don't know. Like, I love the car. I love the accomplishment. I don't know where to drive it.

[Matt Farah]

Like. No, you're totally right. Where do you drive it? What I love about it is that even at very low speed speeds, you're going, well, this is. This is a totally different thing.

[Johnny Lieberman]

The view is right.

[Matt Farah]

I don't need to go a zillion miles an hour to be experiencing Something unique.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Absolutely. And, and, and so I. Because I did 500 miles, most of it was just like freeways and, and like shitty. We were on this rally and the. The roads were terrible.

[Matt Farah]

And how comfy is it once you're sitting in it? Weirdly crazy comfy.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Did you go in the back seat? Which car you talking about?

[Matt Farah]

Zach did the Zinger.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Zinger?

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, Zach did. And it wasn't good.

[Zach]

Terrible.

[Johnny Lieberman]

So the, the back seat, it's a.

[Zach]

Two seater for insurance.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

So the back seat, little take on it. I have exceptionally large calves and I wear a size 13.

[Matt Farah]

That's no good.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And so the 13 sucks. But the calf. My calf was wedged between a carbon tub and a carbon seat. And we're going around Laguna Seca because I got to drive the car everywhere. Except they're like, whatever. Our corporate policy is, you can't drive the non wing car on a racetrack. You have to go in the back seat.

[Matt Farah]

That absolutely makes sense to me.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I mean, I was. Yeah, I'm not gonna anyways, but. So sitting back there was painful. Didn't like it. However, I love the view out from the back because it's just. You have glass, like right next to your ears on both sides.

[Zach]

But in front of you, just see a seat.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I was, I, I was just staring out the window and I. You know, I've done thousands of laps around Laguna Seca and it was just such a cool way to experience it.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, yeah, it must be.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And also the dude was. They, you know, they put a race car driver.

[Matt Farah]

Was it Joel? Joel Miller?

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, the Jewish kid. I forget his name anyways, but it was funny because he was. He was tall but thin.

[Matt Farah]

So he's like, oh, it's great back here.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I love it. You know, I'm like, all right, whatever. And then he could drive and he flung this thing around Laguna and like. And again, he's like, I think we're going like 6, 10. And like, obviously this is why it keeps.

[Matt Farah]

Setting the lab record in this car is like, what. What Randy's doing in a Senna. Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, no.

[Matt Farah]

I mean, he did a 22. Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Well, they set the record. And then. And then the Yesco, you know, whatever Song of Solomon or whatever it's called. Then they come back and beat it.

[Matt Farah]

By more Song of Solomon.

[Johnny Lieberman]

What was it called?

[Matt Farah]

It was like Sedar Spear, whatever that.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I'm going to start naming cars. But like, no, I. I love this Zinger. And again, like, that's their first car. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

No, that's crazy. It's Crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. It's a game changer. It's a wild. It's a wild thing.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And I have a lot of Southern California pride. Like, hell yeah. Sorry, sir.

[Matt Farah]

How crazy is it that Zinger and Singer share a wall? Like, the amount of value being generated in this one split building for so.

[Zach]

Very few people, though.

[Johnny Lieberman]

But also what I find really weird is the. The Singer with an S entrance is kind of nice. The Zinger entrance is like homeless academy.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, I know. And it's like walking into a printer factory. It's weird, but, like, you know, it's. It's like just. It's hard to, like, appreciate amazing engineering and the hard work that these guys put into stuff. And like, whether it's Singer or Zinger, you know what I like, those are things made by humans, like, like really talented people, like, building things. And it's. And it's really like, we. We. I talk a lot of shit about the fact that, like, you know, income inequality is, like, fucking up cars and. And the billionaires have more choices than ever and regular people have less choices than ever.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

And so that's, like, a really conflicting thing for me in my mind between, like, appreciating this thing that I got to, like, taste and is, like, incredible, but that very few people will ever get to taste. So. And like, it's.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It.

[Matt Farah]

That's a hard. How do we reconcile?

[Johnny Lieberman]

This is the hard part about life. This is why life is hard. Like, I'll never forget, I was sitting with Vettel, Sebastian Vettel, and we're at the. His last year racing, we're at the Miami Grand Prix, and a bunch of journalists going to talk to him. And. And he's like, you know, this track will be underwater soon because of global warming. And so immediately, every single journalist was like, you race cars that fly on airplanes. And he's like, yeah, I'm a hypocrite. Okay, get past that. What are we going to do about the fact that we're destroying our only habitat? What are we actually going to. You know, and like, I bought my GR Corolla because I love it, but it also burns gas. And like, dude, like, I was. I watched the Super Bowl. This New Zealand. New Zealand guy, Jif Jeff, but they pronounce it Jif. And he works for some agency that he goes around and monitors deforestation. That's his job. And I'm like, how bad is it?

[Matt Farah]

Must be uplifting.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I go, how bad is it? And he looks at me, he goes, just. Just. Just enjoy Your life. Like, just, just enjoy what time you have left. And I go, what about, I go, what about my kid? He goes, he goes, america, you're lucky. You have a lot of land, you can grow food. The rest of the world, not so lucky.

[Matt Farah]

Oh boy.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And I was like, what? This is a scientist. Yeah. You know, so, yes, learning to live with hypocrisy because like, yeah, I want to drive a zinger. But also like, you're right, income inequality. And also like the, the, the, the, the, the environmental costs of like, everybody's like, boy, re electing Trump was stupid. From the like, why do we pull out of the Paris Climate Accords, morons. Like, like, why aren't all rav fours electric? Like, you know, like it's crazy.

[Matt Farah]

Like it is kind of crazy to me.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Like, and look, maybe, maybe that makes me naive. Whatever. Born in 1981, born under Reagan, Clinton, Bush, you know, Obama, yes. Republican, Democrat. It goes back and forth, but I know never, ever would have thought that we'd go backwards on environmental policy like that, that was like, that's like truly shocking to me to go backwards. Like, dial it back. Sure. The California, the 2030 thing, that was kind of untenable. 2035, maybe 2014, sure, yeah, untenable, Dial it back. But the idea of like reverting full throated selling public national parks, I can't believe that's happening. And as someone who loves cars, I love cars, I love racing, I love cars, I love driving. It's very difficult to not be a hypocrite.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It is, it's impossible.

[Matt Farah]

And like you were saying before with AI and YouTube, like, yeah, bite the hand that feeds you. Like, YouTube enabled us to be here, These systems enabled us to be here. But like they turned like they opened the door.

[Johnny Lieberman]

There was do no evil and they got rid of it.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. And like they, they turned. And, and, and maybe we were naive then and maybe we were not appreciative or whatever. It was like, I just like, we're not martyrs, we're just people. We're trying to make it. Yeah. We're not saints. We're not going small businesses. We have jobs that a lot of people envy because we get to do cool shit. But like those jobs are like very threatened by, they're basically garbage, you know, by, by short form, by algorithmic, by AI, by all this. And, and, and we trained that. I've been making videos for 20 years. Like, I trained that.

[Zach]

I know you didn't on purpose.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It, yeah, but, and so like, and, and It.

[Matt Farah]

And. And so, so it's like, you know, where. Where is our value in that?

[Johnny Lieberman]

So, yeah, you know, it's. It, It. It's. I don't even know what the question was.

[Matt Farah]

I don't either, but I just.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's, It's. It.

[Matt Farah]

It's hard to be an enthusiast.

[Johnny Lieberman]

What is your favorite hatchback? Oh, dear Chrome.

[Matt Farah]

It's hard to be an enthusiast of these cool things and have a hard time and appreciate what engineers are doing and appreciate that people are making things.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And then also, you know, I have friends that, like, you know, they just literally don't give a fuck. And I'm like, God, that must be, like, easy at night.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, it's so nice.

[Johnny Lieberman]

So nice. You know what I mean? But, like, I mean, you know, like, again, maybe. Maybe don't do it, but if you look at what climate scientists are saying, like, we're so far past the point, like 99% of all things, like, species that existed on Earth are gone.

[Matt Farah]

We're ripping it, dude. We're. We're a fucking hellcat demon running the corner right now. But you know what I mean? Like, ripping.

[Johnny Lieberman]

There's no, there's no reason for us to be alive. And we actually have. And that's go back to this New Zealander dude, Kiwi dude, he was like, you know, the thing is, he's like, if you get Trump out of there and get, like a reasonable administration there, he's like, America is the only country that actually has the power and the strength to make changes that could actually help. He actually could. And I was like, fuck.

[Matt Farah]

It seemed like, seemed like.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And by the way, this guy, just for the record, for everyone listening, Super Pro America, this is a New Zealander who all we talked, we watched the super bowl, and he's super into football.

[Zach]

And he's had the whole time.

[Matt Farah]

It seemed like for a while we were maybe heading there. We were. It seemed like we were.

[Johnny Lieberman]

The Biden infrastructure stuff and all the, you know, the public charging and all, it was going in the right direction. And, like, I'm sticking with it.

[Matt Farah]

I like my electric car. I'm sticking with my electric A car.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Sure.

[Matt Farah]

I, you know, I. Yeah, yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's just getting rid of. Getting rid of the $7,500 tax credit doesn't affect guys like me and you. But. But people that want to buy cheap.

[Matt Farah]

Electric cars, I think it, I think it made. It was a. It's a huge. It's a huge thing. We need to have that back or that Getting rid of was a Problem because I didn't, I didn't get. I've might have had two electric cars. I don't qualify for the tax credit on either of them. And it was still worthwhile.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah, I got it. I got, I snuck it in on the Rivian. But here's the thing. What no one remembers, like, oil. The oil industry is so subsidized. Like, yeah, there's not a $7,500 credit, but like your gasoline. Like, oil companies don't pay taxes on their first 27% of profit. Like, it's insane. Imagine like if you could get that.

[Matt Farah]

That would be sweet. Yeah, that would be fucking sweet.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That was George Bush Sr. And James Baker, by the way.

[Matt Farah]

I meant that I don't complain about it. And I absolutely, I pay. I'm happy to pay my taxes. I feel like my taxes buy me civilization.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I've had one year that was like.

[Matt Farah]

Well, I meant that I'm at that, that peak taxes.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Where I don't have enough.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

I don't make enough to start scamming, you know, But I'm in the top bracket.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yes.

[Matt Farah]

It's okay, though. I, I, we don't. It doesn't bother me.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Nobody.

[Matt Farah]

Are you coming? I want to, I want to wrap this show up. It's been a long show. It's been a good show. Yeah, it's heavy bike. It's heavy bike. We're whisking. We got barbecue waiting for us. I want to get, get to that. We. You're going to be at the ice race or.

[Johnny Lieberman]

No, no, I'm going to be at Moda Miami.

[Matt Farah]

I'm slanging these fucking whips. I see.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Well, actually, nothing to do unrelated. I'm just, I'm just like, I can't really justify, like the column I would write for Motor Trend or whoever about the ice race.

[Matt Farah]

I understand.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Doesn't justify me going. I'm RM is I'm working for them in Miami, so that justifies it.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Zach and I are ice racing.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Nice. I wanted to go.

[Matt Farah]

We. I'm writing a column for Road and track and also we've. They've, they've done some of the upgrades on the Manx. They did half of them. They did the valves. So the valves are not the intake and exhaust valves. It's the decompression valve for the starting thing. They've that we have an upgraded valve system.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Are you taking that to ice race?

[Matt Farah]

Oh, yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, my God. I hope it's not. Have you ever driven, driven like a convertible in like really cold Weather, like, minus.

[Matt Farah]

It'll be fine.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

How bad could it be?

[Zach]

Same as snowboarding. Going slower.

[Matt Farah]

It's going slower than skiing. How bad could it be?

[Johnny Lieberman]

Can I tell a little anecdote?

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, sure.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Years ago, me and Justin Bell were in Aria Plog doing the AMG Winter Driving Academy. And they had a. They had a. Whatever it was. Slk. SLC convertible. And we were like, oh, can we put the top down? It would look cool on video. And the lady, he's like, no, it's not allowed. It's dangerous. It's. You know, you lose control in snow. And she's like, if people see you doing that, then they'll want to do that. No. And I'm like, well, what if we send the video? Like, if you've won Le Mans 24 hours, you can put the top down, but if you haven't, you have to.

[Matt Farah]

Keep the top up.

[Johnny Lieberman]

And she was like, no, you've already broken every fucking rule anyway. So we kept the top up. We're like, let's put the windows down as we're, like, sideways drifting. It was minus 25. I don't know if it'll be that cold. I don't think it'll be anywhere right now.

[Zach]

The low is 18.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Nowhere near that cold, dude.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Like, we put the window up in, like, two. We thought we were, like, outsmarting her and sticking our arms out the window like it was still cold.

[Matt Farah]

Well, hang on. So first off, drifting speed. I'm probably gonna be going slower than I would go if I was skiing. I'm also gonna be. I'm gonna be wearing a full ski outfit.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Okay.

[Matt Farah]

Plus a helmet. Full face helmet.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Oh, full face helmet helps.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Johnny Lieberman]

That's all you need.

[Matt Farah]

Okay.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

So, like, I think I'll be okay.

[Johnny Lieberman]

I take it all back. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

We got spike tires. We got full. We got full spikes going.

[Johnny Lieberman]

It's gonna be so fun.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, it's gonna be amazing. That's gonna be fun. It's gonna be amazing. If you can get to ice race, come to ice race.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

You and I are. We're both gonna be maybe at the Heritage Invitational.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Yes, Zach and I are confirmed. North Carolina. I'm confirmed. I'm as confirmed as you are.

[Matt Farah]

So Zach and I are confirmed. It's gonna be April10. April 10th is going to be the live podcast. It's going to be at the Heritage invitational at the 1010 Motor Club outside of Charlotte. Tickets are available to the public. You buy a ticket for Friday. It's good for all day, including the podcast. So it's a whole day ticket. It's very affordable. There's going to be a bunch of cool shit going on and Zach and I are doing a live show, couple hundred people. It's going to be fucking awesome. It's going to be great.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Some moonshine and bring it to the show.

[Matt Farah]

It's going to be fabulous. So if you're in North Carolina and you want to come out to that, it's going to be in April. I don't have anything else to promote right now, do I? I don't think I do.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

Go to Bid Better AI. We don't hate it. We don't hate Bid Better AI. It's okay. We want Johnny to succeed. And if you, if you want to learn easily a whole bunch of shit about a car you're bidding on, this is an easy way to learn a whole bunch of shit about the car.

[Johnny Lieberman]

You'Re bidding AI for good or. No, no, no, no, no.

[Matt Farah]

You don't have that. You don't get that. You don't get that. You don't get that. Thanks for bribing with liquor Johnny. That was very good.

[Johnny Lieberman]

Good liquor. Very good. I'm gonna pat myself on the back for this idea. Right?

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, we got some. We got some foods in the other room, but this is some quality Le Car. Our patrons are aces. I'm sorry we didn't get to all of your questions today, but you know how it is. This was going to be a chatty show. We weren't getting get to that many questions. I know you guys didn't know no different and we appreciate all of you. We're going to see you guys next week and good motherfucking evening.