Racing at the Cleetus 900 Was Insane

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Smoking Tire – "Racing at the Cleetus 900 Was Insane"

Hosts: Matt Farah & Zack Klapman
Date: July 21, 2026
Main Theme:
A firsthand account of Matt and Zack’s experience racing in the Cleetus New England 900, a wild, highly-organized, spectacle-filled event blending pro drivers, YouTubers, and total amateurs racing identically-prepped Crown Victorias, Altimas, and minivans. Plus, an in-depth review of the 2025 Porsche Cayenne GTS and listener Q&A.

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Episode Overview

Matt and Zack return from their dramatic weekend at the Cleetus 900, sharing stories of wild racing, organizational excellence, and mayhem both on and off the track. They review the new Cayenne GTS, touching on the technical details, real-world quirks, and compare it to other luxury SUVs. Later, they take listener questions, dig into car culture, and recount some personal adventures.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Travel Woes & Pre-Race Chaos

• Delays Getting Home:
  Both hosts endured a “planes, trains, and automobiles” journey back to LA, including expensive Ubers and a detour through Boston.
  (03:10) Matt: “It took Zack and I three days to get home from New York. Detour to Boston, no worries. Little planes, trains and automobiles shit.”
• Boston Vibes:
  Early morning Boston is compared to “NYC after the zombie apocalypse” (04:40).

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2. Cleetus 900: Racing Madness and Behind-the-Scenes Excellence

• What is the Cleetus 900?
  A “touring circus” of crash-filled mayhem: three main races—Crown Vic, Altima, and “Van Prix”.
• Professional Chaos:
  Despite the show’s reputation for “chaos and crashing,” the event is run with military-level precision.
  • (05:44) Matt: “Their product is chaos... but the professionalism, organization, helpfulness, and friendliness of the entire staff was really impressive.”
  • (07:21) Matt: “It’s a well-oiled machine—like a louder version of [Guy’s Grocery Games]... Garrett/Cleetus is super sweet, six-five, good looking, early 30s... You understand why this guy is the face of the operation.”
• Race Breakdown:
  • Crown Vic race: Identical cars, prepped by the crew, no mechanical changes allowed—just fit the seat and decorate (see: kids painting cars, 16:33).
  • (18:04) Zack: “You get an out-lap, three laps to qualify, then you’re racing a few hours later. It was ‘building the plane while flying it’ kind of learning.”
  • (19:29) Zack: “I was nervous—my back pain, safety video showing accidents, and Cletus says ‘I plan on touching every car in the field.’ So, I was pretty freaked out.”
  • Both hosts start far back in the pack and recount how running a careful, “survivalist” early race strategy pays off as carnage eliminates front-runners.
• Mix of Experience:
  • NASCAR/Formula Drift pros mixed with total newbies.
    (21:21) Matt: “10 of 24 drivers, it was their first race—one of them is Richard Childress and Bobby Earnhardt.”
• Altima and Van Prix:
  • Altima race: “Run-what-you-brung” stock Altimas, mayhem, 40+ cars, no cages, “the most brutal motorsport I think I’ve ever seen.” (25:02)
  • Van Prix: Stock minivans, no cages, plus a jump—leads to “excessive carnage” and wild crowd reactions.
    • Notable Quote:
      (34:13) Matt: “I think the wheels were like eight feet off the ground. It blew me away.”
    • (36:19) Matt: “There were vans that hit this thing 15 times. I don’t know how those people are alive.”

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3. Memorable Quotes & Race Moments

• “Days of Thunder” Moments:
  Narrowly avoiding huge melees:
  (51:54) Matt: “I felt like I had a true Days of Thunder moment. There was shit spinning around me and I was like, whoop whoop.” (52:04) Zack: “Turn one when Ed (Bullion) hit the wall hard. You and I went right, then a car was spinning, so we had to go left.”
• On Physical Carnage vs. Racecraft:
  • Matched machinery means skill differences are marginal. Passing mostly comes from surviving and strategy, not outright speed. (78:34) Matt: “In qualifying, the difference between first and 20th was one second. In the race, about a half second.”
• On the Event’s Organization:
  (09:22) Zack: “Every bin in the support trailer was labeled. They’ve thought of every possible problem. It’s so visible, so organized.” (56:03) Zack: “The live stream, camera, drones, commentators—the coverage is as good as any IMSA race I’ve seen.”

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4. Standout Race Incidents and Characters

• Richard Childress:
  80-year-old racing legend, still mixing it up, his car ends up with no bumper, “hitting people like crazy,” and is “the guy to avoid hitting.” (02:04–02:45)
• Ed Bolian:
  “Fabulous rookie performance”—aggressive, learned on the fly, involved in gnarly crashes, car sparking at the end.
• Freedom Factory employees:
  Wildcards in the field, most unpredictable and “crashiest” drivers, sometimes working angles under caution. (45:23)
• Nitrous Drama:
  Secret to early race success among front-runners—contrary to advice, top drivers use nitrous from lap 10 onwards, not saving it for the end as advised. (52:13–53:10)

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5. Project Cars & Vehicle Review

2025 Porsche Cayenne GTS Review (63:40)

• High points:
  • 493hp twin-turbo V8, classic GTS charisma, great handling, nicely tuned air suspension, supportive seats, all-around usability.
• Major complaints:
  • Aggressive start-stop system that shuts the engine off before stopping, causing annoying and sometimes dangerous situations by locking out steering temporarily.
    • (68:13) Matt: “It cuts the engine off before you stop moving, which is insanity.”
  • Overactive collision avoidance/stopping intervention; can halt the car while making crucial maneuvers, causing drivers to get stuck in traffic or in the middle of a turn.
  • Disabling start-stop requires touchscreen navigation, and mode changes can reset user preferences.
    (72:23) Zack: “If you turn it off but then change modes... it puts auto stop back on. That’s annoying.”
• Overall:
  • Still a “fabulous northeast vacation car,” but the quirks detract from the luxury experience.
  • Comparison to family’s hybrid Cayenne: hybrid is smoother, less problematic for stop/start quirks.

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6. Audience Q&A Highlights

• Best cars for dirtbag motorsport:
  Crown Vics, Fox-body Mustangs, F-body Camaros, etc.
• Skills that transferred to oval chaos:
  Patience, “survive to finish,” and eyes up for proactive crash avoidance.
• Other cars as ‘one-make’ spec racers:
  Crown Vics are uniquely durable, repair-friendly, and perfect for pound-for-pound abuse; most “unibody” cars won’t survive the carnage.
• Unexpected car spots:
  Matt recalls seeing an Aventador in Tenerife and a ‘90 Cadillac Fleetwood in Monaco; Zack saw a tall "forest rally" Mini at the Nürburgring.
• When dailying an EV makes sense:
  For sub-200mi/month, a city EV is “perfectly practical and not a burden.”
• Post-race snack:
  “I did get hungry at lap 62. I really controlled my water.” (86:59)
• Car talk humility:
  How to deal with “obviously BS” stories? Nod, smile, and move on.

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7. Notable & Memorable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• On Cletus’ outlook:
  (08:36) Zack: “Cletus...goes, ‘How lucky am I to do this? Why would I not do that?’”
• On the event’s resilience:
  (51:49) Zack: “The number of real accidents you and I weaved through... Times got hit a little, but still made it through. This was slalom shit.”
• On van jumps:
  (34:13) Matt: “First time we saw someone hit [the van ramp]... wheels were like 8 feet off the ground. It blew me away.”
• On living the show:
  (52:03) Matt: “I was like, yeah, buddy. That was turn one when Ed hit the wall hard. You and I went right, then a car was spinning, and we had to go left.”
• On car culture atmosphere:
  (05:44) Matt: “Their product is chaos... but the professionalism, organization, helpfulness and friendliness of the entire staff was really impressive.”

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8. Additional Segments

• Merch, Blazers & Patreon:
  New blazers and pens dropping. Pitch for Patreon and special merch access. (75:39)
• Listener Q&A:
  Car advice, EV practicality, daily driving sports cars, Floridian car risks, track car setups, and more.
  Sprinkled throughout 78:00–end.

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Useful Timestamps for Reference

• Crash avoidance highlights: 01:37–03:01; 51:54–52:04; 58:31–61:32
• Event organization/demeanor: 05:44–07:21; 09:22–09:46
• Richard Childress & old-school legends: 02:04–02:45; 44:47–45:08
• Nitrous trickery & restarts: 52:13–53:10; 53:57–54:53
• Porsche Cayenne GTS review: 63:40–74:17
• Listener Q&A: 78:12–end

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Tone & Style

The episode is lively, self-deprecating, and unfailingly honest. Matt and Zack trade banter with a mix of awe (“the most brutal motorsport I’ve ever seen”), dry wit (“I am a sendy from the future, the ghost of sendy past”), and deep admiration for the grassroots motorsport community.

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Conclusion

If you want to know what makes grassroots spectacle racing tick, and how a mixture of YouTube chaos and NASCAR tradition can produce both wild moments and real racing beauty, this episode is for you. The organizational insights are valuable; the on-track mayhem is thrilling and funny; and the Cayenne GTS review is detailed and fair, with both praise and serious critique.

Whether you’re in it for the carnage, the camaraderie, or car geek shop-talk, it’s a wild and rewarding ride.

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Transcript

[A]

What up, everybody? Welcome to the Smoking Tire Podcast. This week's episodes, as always, are brought to you by off the Record. We love off the Record here at the Smoking Tire because they're out there looking out for you as you're going down the road, as your summer road tripping, as your weekend canyon carving, and as you're commuting to work. Whatever it is you're doing in your car. You know that if you get that off the Record app, it's in your back pocket. You've always got their team of lawyers across the country. Should you get stopped by the police for doing something a little out of line, they are going to go to bat for you. All you gotta do is go to offtherecord.com TST don't plead guilty. Get off the Record. They'll connect you with a qualified attorney in the area where you got that ticket. They'll fight it and man, do they have a very good success rate. I hear from you guys all the time that off the Record saved your backside. So one more time offtherecord.com gets you 10% off all legal services booked through off the record offtherecord.com TST all right, folks, on this episode of the podcast, Zach and I, we survived our first Cletus race and came back to tell you all about it. Plus we review the Cayenne GTS we were driving for our week long trip to the northeast and boy, did we get stranded out there. It's the Smoking Tire podcast. Let's go. We avoid a lot of crashes.

[B]

So many. So many. I went and like on the plane, I watched the highlight the video they sent. So I got the outside shots of it and some of the things that had happened in the car. I wasn't sure what was going on, but now seeing the replay, I went, oh, that person hit Cletus on purpose. And then did a burnout against him, which you and I drove past, but there was so much smoke, I couldn't tell what was going on.

[A]

Oh, that's so.

[B]

Yeah, I learned a lot. Yeah.

[A]

I almost like, I had quick hands and avoided t boning Richard Childress in

[B]

the driver's door, which someone spun him into the wall and he was facing backwards. And then you go past him and I go past slower because I had more time to react.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

Yeah. I got close to him once and I backed. I was like, do not hit the 80 year old legend.

[A]

Yeah. But he was hitting me like crazy.

[B]

Fine. I was like, if I hurt this man, they will kill the Person they don't know which is me. And they will drive forever.

[A]

Three, right? You don't kill someone driving the number three. That's no good.

[B]

I explained it to Sarah last night. His car and who he was. And she was like, oh, wow. I mean, yeah.

[A]

But dude, that motherfucker had no front bumper left by the end of the race.

[B]

He had to come in. They cut it off. Yeah, that's in the video. But they had to rip his bumper off with a sawzall.

[A]

He smashed into me a bunch of times. A whole bunch of times. Are we good? Does everybody. Do we exist? Hi.

[B]

Yeah, we're here.

[A]

Hello. Hello. Welcome back to Los Angeles. We actually are. You're gonna hear this out of order. We have one more show we recorded in Connecticut that's gonna go up on Thursday. But it's nice to see you all again. If the show is a couple hours late, it's because it took Zach and I three days to get home from New York. Detour to Boston, no worries. Yeah, little planes, trains and automobiles shit. The automobiles portion. Well, yeah, we went to automobiles. We took a fucking expensive ass round trip Ubers to jfk.

[B]

We went to JFK as sightseers and yeah, so we took an Uber and then we took another one and we took a train. Train was really nice.

[A]

The train was good.

[B]

The seller train was nice. A friend of mine who was also in Boston at the time, he's like, oh man, the train sucks. And I was like, what are you talking about? He goes, he took non osella. No, no, non Osela was. I get, I think more problematic.

[A]

But it was great Amtrak experience. From going Philly to New York, back and forth. Actually Philly to Stanford. I would go to that same station from college and like the Acela, if you've got an extra $30, the Acela is definitely the shit or medium grade. If you've ever been to Europe, the Acela sucks. But outside of that or Asia, it's in America. It's good.

[B]

It's good for America. Yeah.

[A]

But then, yeah, walking distance to hotel.

[B]

That was nice. Saw some really old stuff in Boston.

[A]

Boston at 7am on a perfect day is a really nice place. By 9 o', clock, not so much.

[B]

It's like New York City. If there was a zombie apocalypse and no one went outside. Like we were the only ones walking around. Pretty much in New York is not like that.

[A]

You know, if you go. If you went to like Wall street at 6am it would big ish like that. Like where people work, but not really Live. But yeah, it was an interesting side detour. But here we are. I liked it all worth it because we got to do a fucking A Cletus race. The New England 900. Which right up until we got there we didn't really know how what 900 meant. Are we going 900 miles? Is this race 900 laps? Exactly. What is it? It was 90 laps and man, there's so much to talk about about the day that we had out there. But I really would like to start with the fact that considering especially considering the fact that their product is chaos is crashing and really putting on a show for an audience. The professionalism and organization and the helpfulness and friendliness and sort of general on it ness of the entire staff.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Both the Freedom Factory people. Cause I guess it's like a big touring circus.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And also the guys at Stafford were lovely. I don't do a lot of oval racing ever really. But we met the owners of the track. One of them was racing in the race. Yeah, just the nicest people. And it was a really nice track. The surface of the track was really good.

[B]

Yeah, the condition was great.

[A]

Conditions were nice. It was clean and you know, it was good.

[B]

Their bathrooms were clean. Some other bigger tracks we've been to. I mean this is a small track, small footprint like in the forest. And everyone was just so nice and helpful and I mean the Clias team, they were doing so many things because there are a lot of pieces to this operation. And everyone was that I met were like in a good mood, working quick on top of stuff but also seem to be having a great time because they're still filming mayhem or some of them as we'll talk about. Got to drive in mayhem because that's like what a company perk. I don't know if they rotate through their staff every event or if you have to work your way up to that. But 25% of the field are people that work I think at least part time at Freedom Factor.

[A]

Yeah. And like remember, I mean this was many years ago but when I went to watch Guy Fieri do an episode of Guy's Grocery Games and he had like five jobs at once and everybody was like really calm about all of it. I was like this is like a well oiled machine. Like this whole experience was like a louder version of that basically. And Garrett Cletus is a really sweet guy. I mean really, really fun, really, really cool. You he's fucking like six five, you know, good looking dude. You understand, you understand with his attitude, his sort of general vibe. His look and his brain. Like, oh, this, this is why this guy is like very. He's not old, he's like in his early 30s, this dude.

[B]

Yeah, but he was.

[A]

He's fucking on it.

[B]

He. I remember we were standing at the wall after the Altima race and, you know, in the day, he had given us the safety meeting, he had done a two hour meet and greet. He had raced in the Altima race, which we'll talk about. And, you know, he emerged unscathed, which is not easy. He's emceeing stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, he knows he's the face of the operation. He's also helping oversee everything, although he's got Alan, who's like the real logistical dude.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And I said, this is amazing.

[A]

That guy's got brain power.

[B]

I was like, cletus, this is amazing. You're driving in two races, you're doing all this stuff, you're talking to the people. Like, that's just a really impressive. And he's doing it all with like a nice smile, but calm. And he goes, how lucky am I to do this? Why would I not do that? And it's a great point.

[A]

I mean, it is, but it's also like a kind of a testament to, like, a good support organization that, like, there's not a lot of, like, running around and like, you know, sort of like playing catch up to anything. Even when the product that they're selling is like, you know, madness.

[B]

Right. I mean, they've been doing this now, I think, for nine years. And so they've refined it. I don't know if it was this rougher in the early days. Things usually are.

[A]

Imagine the first two or three maybe.

[B]

Yeah, they learned. And I mean, I went in the support trailer, like in the infield, every bin was labeled. Labeled. They have thought of every possible problem with the drivers, performer and the crew, and there's just a solution is easily visible or someone knows where it is. You know, we've been on TV productions which granted, different but smaller. A lot more running around usually.

[A]

Yeah. And I mean, when you've got like cars crashing and blowing up and like just a lot of general unpredictability in what you're trying to cover. It's like, wow. Like, it's one thing, like when I watched Guy Fieri do it, like, you know, they're cooking in a fake grocery store. Like, there's limited boundary, you know, I mean, it's still a big production, but like, this is like louder, bigger, and with, you know, a Bunch of people racing that, like, have 02 track record holder that was who was racing in that race. Like Ryan Preece, I believe, is the track record holder there.

[B]

Yeah, I think you're right.

[A]

And then there was also someone in our race that had literally zero racing experience. So, like, that's some spread in a small track.

[B]

And then, you know, the other events of the day, who knows who's driving in those? I mean, surely some of them do some racing, but I bet some people want this is their first thing and they show up with an Altima or a van and just go for it.

[A]

Right? So there's three races, folks, taking a break because factor is back. Now picture this. Hunger strikes. You're exhausted. You've had a long day at work. You've had a long day running around after the kids. You've had a long day out in the fields, whatever. There's healthy food in the fridge, but you just don't have it in you to build that dinner. But it's factor. They're here. Eating healthy is not a willpower problem. It's a setup problem. Until I found factor. Because as I've told you guys, one of my problems, ironically, as someone who grew up large and in charge, is I forget to eat. I forget to factor in time to make healthy choices, which do take more time, more energy, and more thought. Except if you've got factor, because factor solves the setup problem with fully prepared meals designed by dietitians, crafted by chefs and delivered right to your door. Meals that can be built around your goals because they've got so many meals right? So whatever the goal is, it could be weight loss, overall nutrition, more protein, GLP1 support, strength and workout recovery. The muscle pro collection. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Whatever your goals are, factors got meals for them. And each meal is crafted with functional ingredients like lean proteins, colorful veggies, whole foods, and healthy fats. There's 175 ingredients on Factor's ingredient ban. No artificial colors or sweeteners. No high fructose corn syrup, no refined seed oils. Just nutrient dense. It's fresh. It's never frozen. And there's over 100 rotating weekly meals, including globally inspired flavors like Mediterranean and Asian. So there's always something new to look forward to. Try the newly launched ready to eat salads with vibrant ingredients like elote corn and miso edamame. And 70 plus add ons to round out your nutrition, from green juices to peanut butter energy bites. Those are awesome. I really like the peanut butter energy bites. It's ready in two minutes. Factor does the shopping, the prepping and the cooking and delivers it straight to your door, saving you time for everything that you love this summer. So head over to factormeals.com tire50off I know they make these codes really complicated, but it's so people don't swipe them and steal them. Factor meal they're just for you people. FactorMeals.com Tire 50 off and then use code Tire50OFF to get 50% off and free daily greens per box with new subscription only while supplies last until September 27, 2026. See website for details. And thank you to Factor for sponsoring today's show. Support is also coming in from Quince. One thing I love about summer is how easy everything feels. The days are a little more relaxed and I find myself reaching for the same comfortable go anywhere pieces again and again. That's why I keep coming back to Quint's, focusing on well made essentials that naturally become those everyday staples you actually in all season long. Like the 100% European linen pants and the shirts. They're easily breathable, easy to throw on and the summer upgrade your rotation needs starting at just 34 bucks for linen. That's crazy. That's crazy talk for linen. I brought one of their shirts to our Connecticut trip. That's right, I did. The stripy one. Their tees are soft enough to live in all day and the lightweight cotton sweaters are exactly what you want when summer nights cool down. I got two of those sweaters. They're sweet. Everything at Quint's is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands, working directly with ethical factories, cutting out that middleman. So you're paying for exceptional quality and not brand markup. Like I said, the lightweight sweaters are money. It's like an open weave. It's very breathable, it's light, they got just the right amount of stretch and the fit is excellent. It's good for the California night where it looks like it's going to be warm, but it's a little colder than you think. Quince has become a trusted favorite for everything from home to travel to everyday essentials. It's not just clothes, so make your summer wardrobe easier. Go to quince.com tire for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's quince.com tire for free Shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com tire we were in the Crown Victoria race, which is the most legit of the races. Their team Provides what are intended to be identical Crown Vics. They don't let you open the hood. They don't let you adjust the tire pressure. They don't let you do anything other than make sure your seat and harnesses fit properly and decorate the car as you see fit. And my nephews, I have to say, Jack and Henry, absolutely crushed. It's like a BMW art car. It's like a Warhol. It's very avant garde and colorful and delightful. And I'm not sure my sister will ever forgive us for introducing them to spray paint. I was originally just letting them use brushes and shit. And then we had some extra spray paint from Zach's car and they were occupied for the next.

[B]

I think Jack, he just, like, I look over and he's standing on the roof, like folded over and just spray painting something. Yeah. And, yeah, I remember as a kid I got to spray paint something and it was like pivotal. Just so enjoyable. Yeah. And they went nuts. But this, like, your car was so easy to find in footage. For me. It was so helpful for like, slating and stuff because it's bright yellow.

[A]

See, I am. I am truly an editor's subject.

[B]

They gave you a good canvas.

[A]

I know how to talk to an editor.

[B]

Like, this is what they should do. And I don't know, did you ever tell Cletus your idea, but you should put it out in the world now.

[A]

Oh, to just have kids come paint everybody's car, Make a wish, whatever.

[B]

Some sort of charity thing where the kids get to paint a certain number of cars in however they want is a great idea.

[A]

I think that should be a thing that gets done. It was really fun to watch, actually. And I bet you if it was me and I was like 6 and got to paint a car that then went out in what appears to be, to a six year old, a professional grade race, I would think I was the. I would tell everybody that shit at school.

[B]

That would be one of the best moments of life, truly. Yeah, it was super cool. I mean, your car looked amazing.

[A]

It was very fun. My car drove really nice, I have to say. I mean, you know, I hadn't driven it, so we got no practice. They don't let you touch the car. Aside from fitting the seat.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So we drove, you know, you drove 100 yards and you're qualifying.

[B]

That was nuts. And it was all right, you guys are gonna roll onto the track. You have your out lap and you have three. So you have three laps to qualify and learn how your car works. And, you know, we've driven cars like we jumped into slow.

[A]

Driven a Crown Vic before, but still,

[B]

like, you know that you're getting three laps and then you go racing a couple hours later and you're gonna. It was a real educational race, I gotta say. You know, you're building the plane while

[A]

flying, so, you know, there's 24 cars in the race. I qualify and I, you know, this is a short track race. You can't win it in qualifying. Right. But you can definitely lose. Two people crash their cars during qualifying.

[B]

That's true. I forgot about that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So just learn the car, try and figure out a line, try and figure out the limit of the tires, try and figure out the brakes, try and figure out if you can change gears manually effectively or not. And don't fucking hit the wall. So I qualified P18 out of 20. Not impressive. Didn't sound good when he read in the driver's meeting. But, like, multiple people were like, actually being at that 2/3 spot is a fabulous place to be for the first half of the race.

[B]

Yeah. We'll get to why.

[A]

And Zach's had a different mission, which is don't fucking explode your spine further. Yeah.

[B]

I mean, as people. Listeners know, like, I'm back in serious back pain and I'm leaned over a lot. And so I was really nervous going into this. And truly every, like, hour was going, should I pull out of this thing? Like, should I see if Parker wants to take my seat? Should I tell? Like, should I just not do it? Because, you know, and then they show the highlight reel and then the safety meeting, they're like, all right, everybody, it's not really a demo derby. This is what Cleese says. He goes, it's not a demo derby. We really want to try to race. He goes, but if Priest is up front, I'm taking him out. And everybody laughs. Like half the conversation of a 20 minute, very funny driver's safety meeting was about when it is actually okay to hit people. Cletus then says, I plan on touching every car in the field.

[A]

Yeah, he does.

[B]

He does. And I'm like, I'm in the field.

[A]

He did.

[B]

So I was pretty freaked out. So my qualifying, I was 20th. I was happy to be at the back and not have hit anything. And it turned out my, quote, strategy would work out pretty okay.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, what's funny about this race, unlike an endurance race or something or a race that's in a series for points, is like, the cars only kind of have to make it to the next race.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

They're not yours. Some of these guys are. You know, there were four NASCAR drivers and two Formula Drift drivers in this race.

[B]

There were five guys that work there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, if I worked there, and especially if I worked on the cars, I go, well, if I. I gotta fix it anyway, I'm gonna bang it up, whatever.

[A]

And boosted. Boy Kyle, who was a very sweet guy. I talked to him a little bit. I didn't know him at all. I talked to him a little bit before the race. He's done every single one of them. Wow. So, I mean, he is a YouTuber, but he's done every one of these races. He says he lives, like, across the street from the track from Freedom Factory. So, like, he's at all of them.

[B]

That's awesome.

[A]

So, you know, there was 10 out of. I think it was 10 people in the race. It was their first race. But of those 10, one was, you know, one was Childress, one was. What's his name? Fucking Bobby Earnhardt, who is Dale Jr. S nephew, who was a lovely guy. Anyway, the competition was, like, for the most part, pretty fucking fierce, if I'm honest.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Almost everyone had more experience driving oval racing than us, except for two people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think Ben Hobson, who's a Formula Drift pro driver. Yeah, sorry, Meaning, like, what's it called now? FD Pro 2. So he's Pro 2, teammate with Vaughn Gittin, who was also there. He was brand new. And then there was a guy, but

[A]

if you're an FD driver, like, you can fucking drive.

[B]

You can drive and you can slide. And then there was the guy that was the sponsor from Whelen, who had never done anything like this. And us, so.

[A]

And us and, you know, have a decent amount of racing experience, but not on ovals. That's a new thing. So I was fucking stoked and, you know, just sort of happy to be there. And so after we qualify, they have this Nissan Altima race, which, in. In which case. In which they don't provide the cars. Fans sign up and bring cars. The cars are not caged. Okay? It's run what you brung. But as long as it's a stock Altima.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

It has to be completely stock. So, like, Cletus has an scr.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But, like.

[B]

And Speedy Cop was telling us that even if you like. So the SDR has an ls Jeff.

[A]

Speedy Cop block. He's a fucking lunatic.

[B]

He is an absolute lunatic. He's like, you know, the Ser has an LSD and he. And Speedy Cop had, like, a manual V6, but he's like, I can't take the LSD out of an SE R in a junkyard and put it in here because that's not stock. So it's interesting that, like, they're so strict about that regulation and think how

[A]

out of hand that would get. I mean, it would be even worse. Yeah, like, it would be even worse.

[B]

And we should say that. But they run this on the smaller oval because if these cars were on the big oval, they'd be going way too fast because they're way faster than the Crown vics.

[A]

Yeah, they're 300 horsepower.

[B]

They're lighter, and.

[A]

They're lighter. And Cletus told me. He goes, you wouldn't believe. People will. He goes, look around. A bunch of these cars have tags on them. He goes. The optimism. He goes. There's people that legitimately think they're going to drive their Altima home from here. I think he said that before the race started. And I was like, really? Why do they think that? He goes, I don't know. And when you see the race, you will wonder why they thought so, too.

[B]

Because you win, the purse is 2,500 bucks. So if you're a dumb person, you will drive your car there. And you have this amazing delusion of grandeur. And I get it. And you're like, I'm going to race this thing. I'm gonna win. I'm gonna go home with the prize money. No one's gonna touch me because I'm gonna be too fast.

[A]

I don't even think this oval, the mini oval, is an eighth mile. I think it's a 16th or something. Mile. Whatever. Whatever that is. Like, it's like a quarter mile. Might be a quarter mile.

[B]

I'll get a picture of Stafford.

[A]

No, it might. It's not. No. It might be a 16th mile.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's tiny as shit. You couldn't run track on it anyway. It's. Would it have 42 cars in the field?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they do 40 laps, 42 Altimas. And this might have been the most brutal motorsport I think I've ever seen. And at one point, it looked like a war zone out there. And we walked up to one of the Freedom Factory guys. I forget his name, but homie with the long white beard who looked like a shorter John Daly, you fucking rule. There he is. There's the photo of him. This guy. I fucking love this guy. He's only holding a red and a green flag. He said there are no yellow flags. In this race.

[B]

And we asked that because this is, I don't know, lap 24. And if you go here just for people watching to our left, we're standing at the K rail. There are cars with bumpers.

[A]

Can you command plus that a couple times. Zoom in a little bit.

[B]

But the big thing is the dust cloud because people have started cutting the infield as the apex.

[A]

Okay, here's my favorite car in the whole race. Zoom in on number 50 there. Is that it? Is that Mr. Crab Walker?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yes. Okay. This is my favorite car in the whole race. This fucking car. Somehow it got like both its rear wheels fakacta out of alignment as if it had rear steer but locked to the left. Full left. Okay. But this is a front drive car. I'm sorry. The wheels are pointed to the right.

[B]

So the right rear wheels are towed out.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And the left rear wheels are towed in. And I mean like 10 degrees. Yeah.

[A]

So it's as if you had a rear steer system that was fully locked in a left hand turn. But it's a front wheel drive car. So this thing, it's better this way than the other way.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

He was basically doing a full drift around the whole track involuntarily while driving the front wheels clean. And he did over half the race like this. It was amazing.

[B]

But so here out in the distance, there's a car pulled over here. The infield got. And it got dustier than this where you couldn't see and there were dead cars strewn around. And this is when we asked that guy, we go, when do you throw a yellow? And they said we only throw a red and only if cars are right in the racing line. And you kind of look and you go, well, the racing line doesn't exist. So I think a lot of these guys are real close to the racing line. But they, they let it run. I don't think they red flagged this whole race. And they did one did.

[A]

They won one red flag because there was it in the right. Now in this photo, the densest part of that smoke or dust is the apex of the far corner.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And a car did die. And like, like right there. And so they did have to.

[B]

That's the beginning of it.

[A]

But yes, Speedy. So speedy cop won that race.

[B]

Which was.

[A]

Which is just a crazy thing to see.

[B]

I mean these folks are going four to five wide into a turn that's really for two cars, maybe three legends cars. And speedy said that last lap he was turning in, I mean people just t bone each other and they Use the other car to keep them inside the track and they'll just shove you out.

[A]

That's just.

[B]

I have also seen happen in nascar, shout out Parker Kligerman. But this is really violent. There's a car with an airbag deployed like the curtain. I don't know if it went off there or if it had already gone off. I mean, the destruction that was happening, fluids everywhere, was total madness. Yeah.

[A]

It's truly the roller derby of motorsport.

[B]

Yes. Which is exactly what it is.

[A]

You know, there's two kinds of people listening to this. People that are. Have actually seen roller derby and know what I'm talking. People are like, roller derby. More like no. Roller derby is the most violent sport I've ever seen. People like, people do. The injuries I have seen in that sport after dating a roller derby girl for four years were as gruesome as anything I've ever seen in any other sport ever. It just shattered bones. I mean, horrible, horrible sport. It's so violent. This was that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so after that, you know, you know, Cletus races in this fucking thing. I don't even remember if his car finished or not. I don't actually think it did. But, you know, now the.

[B]

Cause he's here now.

[A]

Oh, yeah, that's him standing with us.

[B]

He's standing with us.

[A]

And the race is still happening.

[B]

The race is still happening.

[A]

Right. So he then has to do, you know, sort of like. Like a hosty bit to a 7200 person crowd while they clean the whole track. So he's doing like bits and games to like an enormous 6,000 people. They said 7,200.

[B]

Oh, 7,200.

[A]

7,200 people. And they're doing all kinds of, you know, games and prizes and fun little bits which, you know, is after getting out of a really crazy race to go straight to that is something. And then they do the Van Prix, which is like the Altima race, but it's minivans and they put a fucking jump in the track. Not just a jump, it's a jump with a flatland. Folks, one more quick break for Avance. Love these guys. They've been supporting us for years now. Avance is a great company made of great people. We know them individually. It's not done through an agency. These are our homies. Avants helps enthusiasts save money and enjoy their passion more for it's actually very straightforward and the math does work because Avant's members get sweet discounts and a nice quarterly print magazine. I would pay for just the magazine itself. We've known Adam from Avants a long time and he put me on the COVID I think, of one of their first issues. And I've really enjoyed getting their magazine for a while. But also here, get this math. They help you save money on things that you're going to buy anyway, like tires, right? An Avants member gets a 10% off discount at Discount Tire, plus an additional 10% if you buy Michelin or BFGoodrich. So if you were going to spend $1,500 on a set of pilot sports, you're going to save $300 just because you're an Avance member. And it's only $99 a year to join. So you're plus 200 if you get just the tires, right at 1,500 bucks, which easily sports car tires could be more than that. And Avance will send you a $70 gift card to Griot's Garage when you sign up. So you get the detailing. Membership literally pays for itself, plus the magazine, plus all kinds of cool regional events that Avance does around the country for their members. I've been to a bunch of them. Their Monterey Car Week party is a great time. So you can go to avants.com, a V a n-t s.com TST and then use code TST for 10% off. So that's another 10% off your membership. This thing is basically free. In fact, it could potentially be mucho money saving for you. Avants.com TST use code TST for 10% off. Thank you to Avance for sponsoring the

[B]

pod and you are required. So the Van Prix is interesting. It is a judged event, so it's crowd response who put on the best show. But every van is required to hit the jump at least once. And you can hit it at whatever speed you want. You can hit it going front or backwards. People did that. But some people chose to hit the jump every time until they're as long as their van survived it. And like, I thought the Altima race was the most violent, crazy thing I'd seen. And this for me, this one, there are fewer vans, but the sens like the height they were obtaining of like seriously five feet off the deck, landing flat on, on asphalt and then the sound of like a bank safe hitting the ground. And they go around again and they do it again, and they go around again and do it again.

[A]

And the real reward of being a driver in this event is that they put the jump right in front of where the Crown Vic drivers get to Hang out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you get the up front view, I think. No, I mean like because of the jump. The carnage is also completely excessive. And from where we were sitting, we got to look. Looked the drivers right in the eyes as these things fucking nose dived into the asphalt. I think the Altima race was more violent from a racing perspective. Like people crashing into each other harder and just like people continuing to try to race with their cars even more fucked up maybe than the vans. But the jump is unique. Totally. It doesn't even look like that big of a jump when they put it down. But the way the van like ka ka. And it like, it like donkey kicks a bit once it went in.

[B]

I've got a video there.

[A]

The first time we saw someone hit one of those, I think the wheels were like 8 inch, 8ft off the ground for real.

[B]

It blew me away. I was like, oh, they're gonna get a foot of air. Cause the ramp is 10 degrees, pretty low, but it donkey kicks so hard. And I think Cletus told us it's kind of by design. He's like, you'll see. And boy, did we ever see. Let me. I'll pull it up really quick.

[A]

And it was a true spectacle also. I mean these vans, no roll cages, stock seats, three point belts, which. Okay, here's the. Is this lap one?

[B]

If you just.

[A]

Yeah, that's.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean it really. The fact that the van is front wheel drive, it's so front heavy and then it donkey kicks the back, you know. Cause the front, it's not just the wheels that go off. It's not a smooth takeoff. The front bumper bounces off the ramp which then kicks the rear wheels down into the ramp. And then it has a sort of double bounce effect on the rear wheels.

[B]

So when I did that article for Road and Track about how to jump a car and I got to interview the guys from Global Rallycross, that literally designed the tabletops. They were like in the early days, the ramps, the takeoff was too short and it caused the donkey kick and the landing was too short. By making the takeoff ramp incredibly long and then the landing incredibly long, they're like, we can make a jump as big as you want and the car can hit it at almost any speed. Once they clear the gap and land as deep or as short and it's pretty safe. This is what the early days were like because of the donkey.

[A]

The exact opposite of the that. It's no landing, it's a flat landed jump. Yeah. It's unbelievable.

[B]

It was so nuts.

[A]

I Also, I gotta say, I'm pretty impressed at the ability of most of these vans suspensions to handle even more than one of these.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

You know, there were vans that hit this thing 15 times.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Which I don't know how those people are alive.

[B]

Well, we talked to one of the kids and it is a kid, like he gets out and I was like, you guys are insane. He goes, that was the best. And you know, and I said, how old are you? And he's like 20. I went, yeah, right, I get it. You know, and me, me with current back problems, I am, I'm sendy from the future, you know, the ghost of Cindy past or whatever. And he's just like, yeah, have fun.

[A]

It was, it was batshit. What a thing to see.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then, you know, I think as a driver, you know, you watch that, then you get into a car with a cage and how can you not be like, well, I am responsible to put on some kind of a show here. So, like, I was like, you know, I don't want to crash out of this race. I want to finish the race, see if I can do well, you know, but like, if I got to hit somebody, you know, so be it, like, whatever. And I got hit a bunch too.

[B]

He did.

[A]

I mean, it was, it was, it was a. And some of those like, you know, on tv, if you get brushed into the wall, that doesn't look like a big deal. That's a hard. That's a hard.

[B]

It's a shake. It's a shake. There's a video. It'll be in the collab video. But there was one of my favorite moments, kind of like lap 20, but I'm behind you and Ed, and you and Ed. And his car is bright green, yours is bright yellow. So Ed Bullion was, was quicker than I expected.

[A]

He was also. I can't believe we didn't mention him earlier. He was a rookie. He has very little. He has no wheel to wheel racing experience. He's done some like time attack type stuff. He has some track experience, but almost no wheel to wheel experience. But he fucking sent it. Yeah, he did a fabulous job. I had to show some respect to Ed definitely. And his aggression was amazing and he showed some skills. He really was good.

[B]

You and him were like neck and neck for most of it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he got crashed. He got spun around twice. The third one broke his tie rods and his car was done, I think. But he was involved in a lot of pretty gnarly accidents and then kept going and kept going. Until literally later in the race, I'm following him, and I see sparks, and I get to the right, and I was like, oh, your front right suspension is collapsed, and you're just dragging subframe. And it just, like, shooting out like a frigging rocket. It was amazing.

[A]

That's when the marshals, when they see the sparks, like, ah, let him do one more for the crowd before he comes in.

[B]

Yeah, no, he pitted in. I mean, there's so many stories to tell from this thing, truly.

[A]

But no, Ed. Ed did great. So, you know, it's. It's. Oh.

[B]

Where I was going with the hitting the wall real quick is you guys are in front of me, and I'm watching. So you're on the outside, and I'm watching Ed. I'm gonna get in the camera. Like, you both are exiting corner one, and he smacks into you and pushes you, like, wide, and you guys kind of rub. And I'm like, whoa. My friends are car fighting. And I am, like, literally staring and watching and not at all watching what I'm doing. And I hit the wall. And you can see in the in car, my head goes. And then from your rear view, you could see my car, and my car goes. And I literally was like, okay, Zach, time to focus. Like, stop watching other. I was watching the movie, and I needed to focus.

[A]

Oh, my God, that's so funny. Were you able to slate sync my camera to the other video?

[B]

You know what helps slate? Caution cameras. So you and I were synced. I didn't sync it with the whole broadcast. Yeah, I could have done that, but I did it later. But I synced ours easily because of the green lights.

[A]

Did both my cameras survive the whole race? No, they're only the rear.

[B]

Your rear made it the whole race. My front died at, like, lap 76 or something like that.

[A]

There was almost no way it was gonna fucking last the whole race.

[B]

Yeah, next time we'll do external batteries or something like that.

[A]

Yeah. The race was, from a time perspective, significantly longer than I thought. We were sort of. We sort of thought the race was gonna be about an hour and a half. The race was like 2 hours and 20 minutes or something. It was long. There was a lot of cautions.

[B]

A lot. Eleven, maybe there was. So.

[A]

Okay, let's see.

[B]

Want to start at the beginning?

[A]

I mean, we don't have to.

[B]

Like,

[A]

I was trying to drive in the beginning. I think I was trying to be too clean, actually, and about, you know, and I sort of lingered around whatever, 17th, 16th, something like that. And A car, you know, I would gain position when cars would crash out, and I'd be like, well, if I can hang on for a while, I can get a bunch of positions this way. And I found. So when you would go to the. When you go to caution, they go single file, and for the restart, you'd go double file, and they would have a cone, and you would have to pick a side. So it would actually be kind of random who ended up sort of where in the restarts. And I found out. I started doing math early. If you went high, you'd gain probably two positions almost every single time. And so on one of them, I gained, like, five positions. I had a really good fucking choice on one.

[B]

Well, I was right behind you. It was funny about that is before the race, I told Cleas about my back, and I was like. Because he said, when you throw caution, we're gonna reset you. And I said, how do I stay at the back to not be in the fracas? And he's like, oh, no, just pull over. Let everyone go by. Get in the back. That's fine. And I was like, great, that's what I'm gonna do. So we were at the back, and you and I chose high, and all of a sudden, we're sixth and seventh in line. And I went, well, I'm fucking in it. Let's just do it.

[A]

So the restarts are really where. It's crazy. I mean. Cause they're literally. The people behind you are having their bumper on your bumper, and they're pushing you into the cars in front of you. So you kind of just got to be like, all right, that's what's happening right now. And half the time, that would result in somebody crashing, and half the time it wouldn't. So at one point, we didn't even make it a full lap. Three times in a row. On lap 68, that's when the race

[B]

director, who super pro. But in the safety meeting, Cletus was like, there will be times where. I think his name is Ryan, though. Ryan's just trying to communicate with you guys. There's times where he might sound mad at you, but he's not. There's times where he might be mad at you. The three in a row, he was mad at all of us.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He was like, what the fuck are you guys doing?

[B]

Yeah. And he wasn't wrong. It was a lot of cautions toward the end, but, man, it was wild to watch from the back and then watch later in the replay, those. Those starts and you know, everyone's going, going, and then someone just wiggles a little bit, and you. I would think, like, we got new tires, shout out nitto. We've got long wheelbase cars, but they pirouette real fast. Yeah, it's just. It's like this domino effect.

[A]

If you lose the back end and while someone's pushing you, you know, that's.

[B]

That's that everyone just spins out.

[A]

That happened to me on, like, lap three or something. I ended up spun into the grass, and I was like, really kind of glad to have gotten it out of the way that early in the race. I was like, oh, all right. And so then I had, you know, four or five laps to sort of like, drive fast by myself on the opposite field to sort of catch up to the back of the field, learn the track a little better, like, at speed. Eventually, fucking Cletus comes around and I'm like. And he fucking. Fucking taps me on the side. And I'm like, okay. But then I'm like, oh, I'm just gonna stick my fucking nose on his bumper and chase him right around the track and, like, learn how to do this properly. Just like a lead follow and watch his brake lights and watch his front whee. And that's when I was like, okay, fucking late break hockey. Stop at the apex, smash the throttle, straight wheel to track out, and one brake, one gas. That's it. Left foot on the brake. And after that, I was like, now? I was like, all right, now let's fucking go. I wish I could have done the first half of the race sort of knowing that, but now we know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then it got. Then it got real fun. I battled with Richard childress for, like, 15 minutes. This dude was on it. I mean, he might be 80 fucking years old, but this is a guy who knows how to race a car. Running a number three black car, where it's like, you can't hit him, but he can hit you. Kind of crazy.

[B]

Right before the race, he was parked next to me, and I said, hey, man, you know, any advice for a total newbie? And he's so nice, and he's just like, let them figure it out at the front and just stay out of the shit. And then, you know, start racing towards the end. And that philosophy worked.

[A]

Yeah, that's pretty much what everybody said. Honestly, the crazy, craziest people were the dudes who just worked at the Freedom Factory. All of them guys were the most unpredictable, crashiest drivers. And one of them, who I think tried to pretend like his fucking radio Wasn't working. They would resort you in the cautions. And fucking he. And he would be like. I was told by race control to go in front. And he was just like, no, just wouldn't give up the position. Position and hit me. I was like, what the? And then he gave me the finger. I was like, what the?

[B]

Yeah, there were a couple people, you know, they'll call it out. They'll go, you were 419, I was 55, for example. And if we ended up. If I ended up in front of you and during a caution, they'll reset it to what it should be. And they go, oh, 55. Move behind 419.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they'll go, 12, move in front of zero. And there was a call on the radio that was like five times. It was like, hey, Zero, I need you behind. Or whatever the number was like, zero, you got to get behind. Like, guys, we need to. And someone. Either their radio stopped working because Ed did say his stopped working for some reason at lap 20, or they were pretending to because they're just using it to get an advantage.

[A]

And in the case of me, they told me to get in front of this car. The dude fucking hit me, wouldn't let me in front. And then they didn't say anything again, like, all right. But I decided that I didn't really, like, care that much, you know, where we finished. I just wanted to, like, have a good race, fucking get to the end, you know, try do my best to put on the best fucking show I could.

[B]

I was having so much fun, you know, mixing it up with all these different people, depending on, like, where cautions flew and stuff. And, you know, in the beginning, I was trying the whole, like, trail break in and breaking a little softer, you know, it's funny. So. So three days before the race, I had a zoom call with Parker Kligerman, which I filmed. And I was like, give me all the pointers. I've never done this before. And my idea was that I would use this secret weapon, beat you, and then show you the video today on the show. Well, that worked out real well, didn't it?

[A]

Because I finished Force Spotbug did not work. Sorry, Parker.

[B]

But I was like, you know, trail breaking differently and all this different stuff. And then for me, at the end of the road race, like, the last eight laps, it worked out better if I breaked earlier, let off earlier, and then let all four wheels just carry me around. And then I was. And then I, like, I passed Vaughn, I passed Ben, I passed Speedy cop Like, it didn't like the hockey stop, but it was just so much fun, like, watching other people's wheels, watching how some people seem to come in so hot, and it would work, and they'd go around, and then the next lap, they'd come in too hot, and just. And they would just spin past you into the infield, and you're like, all right, that's a little too much.

[A]

When I. When I say the full hockey stop move, it wasn't a formula drift slide. It's not that. It's like three degrees of oversteer. It's, like, just where you start to take the wheel back the other way. I feel like that unloads the front right tire a little bit from getting worn down, and it helps you able to turn in earlier. Like, later into the race. Like, most of the position I actually gained was by people either crashing or by guys going really fast up front and blowing their front tire off and going in for a new front tire, which you could do. It was amazing. They had a pit crew for everybody. So if your car broke or something was off or you wanted new tires, you could go in and get them. But I was, like, doing the math on them. That and almost everyone who went in for a front tire, I actually passed because they went in.

[B]

I went in when there was a caution, and I watched it later, and I actually got back out before the caution ended anyway. And it was actually because I hit the wall, and I was also curious how my tire was doing, and they were like, it's fine. So that's when I learned I wasn't driving it as hard as I thought, because I don't know about you, but I couldn't feel any real loss of traction in the front. I had to watch for when the car was going the direction I didn't want to go.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So there's very little. Little feedback.

[A]

Yeah. The hardest part of the whole race for me was actually, you know, when you. On the restart, you have to. It's a column shift. You got to get the car into first gear. Otherwise, it'll just. It'll bog. And in the column shift, it's, you know, it's one at the bottom, two, and then d. And if you're in a racing situation, it's incredibly difficult to actually hit two and not go past

[B]

it to D. Well, I would add that the distance at the actual control module, like in the steering shaft, let's say that the distance from 1 to 2 is 1 millimeter. But the flex and slop somehow at the end of the column shift where you're holding it. Yeah, five inches, sure. So, like, I messed up that start. I think I only got it right once or twice of going one to two. Because the times where I tried to do it and met and went to D, I was actually slower than just leaving it in two and flooring it like early. It was worse for me to go to three, you know, one to D and it would bog and then I have to go down to 2 and downshift. And that was worse than just leaving it in two the whole time.

[A]

So here's what I found with my car. And I found out at the very sort of end of the race, if I just. If my foot was on the floorboard, right, and I went and I went past 2 to D, it would still only shift once to 2.

[B]

I was wondering about this.

[A]

And then I would. It was easier to get to 2 from D while breaking for the next corner. So it was actually, that is. That was the move. It was go is way easier than trying to stop it in the middle.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

And once I figured that out, and then I could always downshift down to 2 as I turned in. And sometimes it would engine brake the rear and it would help me get a little extra.

[B]

Initially I should have done more experimentation, but there was like, there was so much information to process, so much to pay attention. I mean, the highlight video, like the number of real accidents that you and I weaved through.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

At times got hit a little, but still made it through. I mean, like, this was slalom shit.

[A]

I felt like I had a true Days of Thunder moment during the race where there was shit spinning around me and I was like, whoop, whoop.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

I was like, yeah, buddy.

[B]

Yeah. That was turn one when Ed hit the wall hard, like you and I went right? And then a car was spinning like fuck and we had to go left around this whole thing.

[A]

That was awesome.

[B]

The other thing that I was disappointed is the whole nitrous situation. So every car has a 10 pound nitrous bottle in the the back. And what all they tell you is save it for the end. And if you have to hit the nitrous under full throttle, if you don't, it will blow the intake off the car. And I talked to like, we talked to Vaughn, we talked to Kurt Busch, we talked to Parker. Like, save the nitrous. Save the nitrous. Well, in watching the replay, I learned a bunch of the people at the front use the nitrous by lap 10. Like Priest was hitting the button on lap 10 to just main to keep position because they know that passing is hard without it. Yeah, yeah. So that was pretty interesting.

[A]

So were they out of nitrous by halfway through the race?

[B]

For sure. But throughout the race they were counting down.

[A]

This is like these fuckers in Seattle that tell everybody it rains all the time just to keep them away and keep Seattle to themselves.

[B]

That very well might be true.

[A]

This is everyone, save the nitro, save the nitrous, just so they can use their nitrous and stay ahead of it.

[B]

I think it's true. I mean, the irony is that if I'd used it earlier, I would probably been up in the middle of the fight and then gotten hit out anyway.

[A]

Nobody could really tell me because they go, it's a ten pound bottle. And I go, how many seconds of nitrous is that? Yeah, because you tell me it's 40 seconds of flow. I can count that down. I can remember that. But like, nobody.

[B]

One of the commenters said, I think it's 60 seconds.

[A]

Then I probably did have a little bit left.

[B]

Yeah. So through the race they were counting down in our ears. They go, hey, guys, we're at lap, we're at LA lap 10, we're at lap 20, we're at lap 30. And then once we started crashing out all the time, they stopped doing that. And I. They didn't tell us lap 20, they didn't tell us lap 10. And then. So basically where I'm going is.

[A]

Yeah, we didn't know where we were again until There were like 10 laps left.

[B]

I didn't even know that from. Yeah, I didn't know we had 10 left. And then I didn't notice the double white flag for two left. And so all of a sudden I had hit it a bit. Little bit. And I was like, okay, when's the. They're gonna tell me 10 laps and I'm gonna start using this bottle and passing fools. And then I drive by and I look up and I go, check your flag.

[A]

Fuck. I remember after the triple caution, that was 18 laps to go. I remember that there were 18 laps remaining when the triple caution happened. So after that I was like, all right. On the third triple. On the third caution, I was like, now there's, now it's time to start using it. And I absolutely noticed the difference if the car was in first gear when you hit it. In fact, there was a substantial. I was full throttle then button and it was a kick. So it was probably like a 50 shot on a 200 horsepower car.

[B]

I think that's what it was. And that explains why on some of the restarts, there was a car. I think it was number 24. Kyle would pass every time, and I was like, how's he doing that? Because he's hitting the button one, and he's just behind me. And then they hit go and he's next to me. Yeah, so.

[A]

So people were using it earlier than they were saying they should use it, but Super Junior, they put it on the. The button is on the left side of the dash, so if you're using the button, you kind of need your other hand to steer. So it's really hard to column shift, steer, and use the button. That's how I found out. I was like, I'm gonna try the D thing. Cause I can just be sloppier with it with my right hand while I'm steering. So that I think is. I think they put it on the dash rather than somewhere more accessible on purpose. So you have to take a hand off the wheel to use it. I think that's an intentional choice.

[B]

That might explain why so many people crashed on the straightaway. Truly on restarts. Yeah, maybe because they don't have their hand on the wheel and all of a sudden, like, oh, shit. And you can't catch it. That really makes sense because there was some interesting stuff happening. Yeah.

[A]

But God damn, was that a fun.

[B]

It was fun race.

[A]

Fun, man.

[B]

So exciting. Interesting. And. And then they do this live stream. I mean, they've got livestream cameras in the cars, they've got drones, they've got commentators. I mean, it is. The coverage is as good as any IMSA race I've seen. It was amazing. So I don't know, for 20 bucks or whatever it is for the live stream, it's a hell of a problem. Really impressive production.

[A]

And then the fireworks display, they were using terms like blast radius, and I was like, ha ha ha. And then. No, no, it was a fucking huge fireworks display.

[B]

I was like, shouldn' higher before they explode. That was cool. And then. I love that, you know, in between the events, they have to clean the whole track up. So they run the van race, and then there's fluid everywhere. And they did this tire roll, which was basically. They brought a bunch of people down from the crowd. And the goal, I don't know, what are they, 100ft? You're 100ft away from a wooden board that has a hole in it that is like half an inch too wide for a tire. And the goal is to roll the tire into the board. And so I'm standing next to one of the producers and he goes, yeah, we just built this thing. It's a new idea. And 30 of us tried it at Freedom Factory and none of us got it. He's like, so I don't really know how this is going to go. First person gets up, 17 year old kid who just graduated high school, like literally whatever, a month ago. And he just spends a lot of time like looking, looking. Pushes it gently, doesn't force it, just lets gravity take it. Fucking first shot.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you only get one shot and it rolls through. He wins $5,000. The Crow Nuts. And I think the producers were like, oh, well, we need more time to clean stuff. So then they added more money and they started, you know, raising the stakes again. So for every miss, they'd add a grand to the prize. But like, what a cool way to involve the crowd. They get a huge reward. I mean, the kid was obviously so stoked.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, what an amazing moment for him.

[A]

Yeah, it was good.

[B]

It was just a really great, clever idea just to. As they break up, you know, the races, just what a production. The whole thing.

[A]

It was. And you know, and Cletus is a. Is a. You know, the fact that he was a host quote first before he became a driver, you know, or fucking P.T. barnum was. It helps because he's actually emceeing the whole thing and he's very comfortable doing it. He makes a very good. He makes for a very good host.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So that's pretty. That's fucking. It was. It was an unbelievable time. I mean, I got a. You know. Is this our crash avoidance clip?

[B]

This is our crash avoid.

[A]

Can we, can we watch it? We're. We'll put it on. It's going to be on Instagram by the time this, this show goes up. So Zach is in the black 55 and I'm in the yellow and Art, Art, car

[B]

O.

[A]

Was that Cletus in the wall?

[B]

Yeah. All right, so that's you, you and Ed and Matt hitting each other. That's when I get distracted and hit. Hit the wall.

[A]

So funny. Oh, there's some Richard Childress oversteer.

[B]

Someone. Richard Childress in the infield. Someone hit the wall.

[A]

Oh my God, we made it through. Just everywhere. Here's the Days of Thunder moment where there's no. Are there about to be cars just. Yeah, there's just cars spinning all over the place.

[B]

You go around. This is me.

[A]

There's like a. Yeah. Oh my God, this is.

[B]

This like, that was me and this guy just. I thought, he's about to turn in. Hit me more. More Days of thunder.

[A]

Oh, here's.

[B]

This is the craziest crash.

[A]

That was a huge pile up. You got right through.

[B]

Because this is your. Your camera first.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We've got two cars that spin to the infield. And so everyone stays out wide and they go, okay, like, we're gonna just drive around. What's happening? Well, those cars still have momentum on the infield, and they decide to, uh. Oh, and they decide to rejoin the track, whether by choice or not. And then they just.

[A]

And spin it. They started to come across.

[B]

Come across and hit Ed. And you. That's like, you. And you get hit.

[A]

So. And the dude I hit, I bumped into there. That's the guy, David, who owns the track.

[B]

Oh, it is.

[A]

Yeah. The white car. Yeah, that was David. He owns the track.

[B]

Great driver. And then he goes wide and ends up hit, like, almost hitting the accident. And then you and I go through. I mean, there was just.

[A]

Look how many.

[B]

There's five cars stopping on the track. Speedy Cop hits Squirrel McNutt. Oh, my God. And then they all come to a stop.

[A]

Dude, look at Farah.

[B]

Yeah, so that's you and I passing. You know, we got another person facing the wrong way again. And it all happens, like, so quickly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the cars aren't going that fast, but when these accidents happen, they. The cars stop moving so abruptly and then cause more harm.

[A]

And you have Crown Vic brakes.

[B]

Yeah, you do. Mine were warped. Like, this is.

[A]

It's just. It's carnage, man.

[B]

This is. This is a.

[A]

Like, for years, if you just so much as rub fenders with somebody in a race that I've participated in, straightaway

[B]

crash on a start, sure.

[A]

You're just gonna be. You know, you get penalized if you do like this in other races.

[B]

Exactly. Like, I watch F1, but I. This. This was like a palette cleanser for all of the track. And that's Ed.

[A]

Oh, Ed, look at your fucking Sparky. MC Sparky. Wow. Yeah. That accurately captures what being in that race was like, I think. Go look at this.

[B]

Ed's car. Just good times.

[A]

Really good times.

[B]

Amazing times.

[A]

I hope that I ended up finishing seventh, which is pretty respectable. I'm happy with.

[B]

With that. I was 11th.

[A]

Zach finished absolutely happy with that. Moving up nine spaces for you. Moving up. I moved up nine spaces as well.

[B]

18th to move up nine. And I didn't get hurt. Honestly, I was the most comfortable all day just sitting in the chair.

[A]

Actually. That was a super comfortable race car.

[B]

It was, it was more comfortable than wrl.

[A]

Comfortable than the BMW.

[B]

It was because all the seats seemed like brand new. I mean, they are really on top of it. I mean, I, I can't thank them enough. I've been wanting to, to do this for years, you know, and I'm really glad that we had the opportunity and that I, and I was like, I was nervous, nervous, nervous. I got three laps in, I started having fun. I was like, I'm so glad I'm in this chair right now and I didn't bail out of it. Especially after hitting the wall and realizing

[A]

you're not gonna hurt.

[B]

And the chair's good. Yeah.

[A]

If you're strapped in, you're good.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Please invite us back. Yeah, it was very, very fun. We didn't totally destroy your co.

[B]

Car.

[A]

Put up, put up a good, good showing. I think so.

[B]

Not destroying the car because I met the guy, the guy that adjusts my seat. He's like, I'm the body guy. I go, what do you mean? He goes, well, after these come back, we got to hammer stuff out. We can. Or we change the doors. You know, we, they keep these cars alive. They don't want to build a new cage. And all right, body guy, like, I made your job pretty easy.

[A]

So great time. What a good time. We did make them. We, we, we didn't have ask the right questions beforehand. Like when they were like, gates open at 10. Drivers meeting is at, you know, 4. We weren't like, what time should we actually show up? So we showed up at 10 and we were, we had a very long day in the sun.

[B]

We did.

[A]

I was very tired, so. So we stayed at the world's worst red roof in East Hartford. Yikes.

[B]

That was. You know what? Honestly, the bed was firm enough. I was, the bed was better for me than the nice place. The Dagny we stayed at in Boston.

[A]

Oh yeah, it was. Oh, good. I'm glad you enjoyed it.

[B]

But the shower and bath situation, I definitely sink.

[A]

Wait, do we want to talk about the Cayenne or do we want. Oh yeah, we should talk about the Cayenne. I think if we, if we should.

[B]

We.

[A]

Yeah, let's do Cayenne first, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Cause Porsche was very kind. They let us borrow the new, new Cayenne GTS, which is a 493 horsepower gasoline only, non hybrid. Excuse me. Twin turbo, 4 liter V8 in of course, Carmine Red. They call it GTS Red now, but it's carmine Red. Really, really neat car. A lot to like, honestly. It's fast and loud. Sounds good. The steering is really nice. The ride is really nice. They've, they've dialed in these air shocks so nice like compared to the ones like in my Taycan. Like, granted, this is a gts, but it's also newer. Like just the rebound on the air spring is really nice now. It's really well damped. Just like such a nice thing to drive around. Like to use as a. It's not. You don't have to. Granted, it's a Cayenne, but it's not too harsh, it's not too sporty. You can use it as a car, but it still gives you a good sporty vibe. And we were in Greenwich, Connecticut. Back roads, they're windy and they're undulating. And having a car with great steering and a good gearbox is important and actually helped improved our vacation work trip.

[B]

To have a vehicle to run around where we were with curvy back roads, curvy highways, pretty smooth tarmac, everything, everywhere. It was a very good tool for that.

[A]

Almost everywhere. Because before you came to Connecticut, I went down to Long island to see my in laws at the beach and I have to drive across Long island and where they are down on the south shore, the tarmac is a garbagio, is exceptionally garbagio. When you get across that state line into Connecticut, it's a whole other level of tarmac quality. And so on some of the really hard edges, there's no way to hide that. It's got the big wheels and the sport setup. So it's not great on the really harsh edges. If that's your life, I might consider not a gts. But when the road is decent, this is great. I really liked the seats. There's nothing revolutionary about it. It handles well. The rear steer makes it feel incredibly agile. Agile, but the start, stop, yeah, start,

[B]

stop, and the auto brake. Yeah, these are two things. And you know, I drove a Cayenne gts.

[A]

Can I have this?

[B]

Yeah. Three, three years ago I went to Atlanta, drove the then newer Cayenne gts. And I remember I was turning on a mountain road and there was an engineer behind me and all of a sudden the car slammed on its own brakes because it thought I was like heading towards a cliff. And I was literally just driving on a curve and I pulled over and I was like, did you see that? And he goes, yeah, I did. The reason I bring that up is because you and I were trying to make a left turn onto A highway. And there was a, there was a gap and you hit the gas to drive left across oncoming traffic and it hit the brakes.

[A]

Yeah, just.

[B]

And like that's two different times. With years of, you know, I would hope, what's the word I'm looking for development time. Where it almost caused a pretty big problem.

[A]

Like yeah, I was making a left across two lanes of traffic. There was enough room to make this left. But after I had moved about three feet, the car decided that no, I would not be making the left. I didn't have enough room and it stopped me in a place that is dangerous, which is crazy. But then you have the start stop, which to me is like, it's like pretty unforgivable in this car the way that this operates. And I had a problem with this three years ago or two years ago with the S version of this. Same thing. Basically, in an effort to be as efficient as it possibly, possibly can because this is a heavy thirsty car with no hybrid assists or anything like that. Shout out to my in laws house in Long island and okay, in an effort to be as efficient as possible. It cuts the fucking engine off before you stop moving, which is insanity. I mean like real like pulling into a parking space. I'm halfway, you know, into the space and the engine cuts off. Now as I'm decelerating, it cuts off at like, let's call it five or six miles an hour from five before you get to zero. The problem is then it doesn't lock the steering as you're going from five to zero. But let's say holy shit. Actually I need to either coast a little further because I'm braking to zero. I need to either coast a little further or I need to apply throttle when it goes to start the motor back up, up. It locks the steering for about a second because it's not a particularly good fast engine startup.

[B]

Yeah, it is a little slower than some other cars you get. It's not that difficult.

[A]

If you had 48 volt mild hybrid, it'll do really fast. But this, it doesn't have it. It's a traditional starter motor. So it's like when it restarts, it thinks cranks and then fires. But in the meantime you have locked steering, steering. And so you are in a seriously precarious position because multiple times this situation has happened to me where I've slowed down almost to a stop. But I was then going to make a left. I was waiting for an oncoming car to clear, but then I was going to make a quick Left, but now I come off, the engine shuts off, I come off the brake and now I can't make the left, but I'm trying to turn and the steering locked. This is like.

[B]

Well, the other time it happened is you were parking and you know you're pulling it, you're just like a right hand turn into a lot, into a parking spot between two cars. But it turned off and then locked the steering and you needed to adjust our position in the spot. Yeah, but it, it stopped us before we had completed pulling in. Like you were gonna pull in all the way and then like back, back up, shimmy. But it stopped us like 7, 3/4 of the way into the store spot and it just like turned off all of a sudden. And I wish that the car's proximity sensors, which it obviously has many because it stopped us from turning left across traffic, would go, oh, you are parking now. There's other cars around you. Maybe we leave the engine on so that you can shimmy, shimmy, shimmy, and then be done.

[A]

Yeah, this is a choice. This isn't like something's broken. Like, they've decided, and I told them this years ago, they've decided, decided that in the name of efficiency, the car should do something super, super dangerous. And that's fucking crazy to me. Like I, you know, and you know, the hybrid one obviously doesn't do this. Engine comes on, engine goes off, like, whatever. I just. And the, there's an easy way to fix it. Just, just like don't turn the fucking engine off until the car's stopped for two or three seconds. Like, how hard is that? I can't fathom why a company would make this choice. What tiny fractions of a percentage of efficiency they're saving by not idling the engine for a couple more seconds or making sure you've actually come to a, a stop.

[B]

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if it's, you know, with, with EU regs and stuff. And like, because they report all the CO2 and does this get them 100 points less on that report or something? Like, so is that the lesser of two evils for them, but operationally still pretty problematic. Yeah.

[A]

And, and you know, you, you have to. There is not a hard button to disable the start stop. It's in a touch screen. You have to go in, you have to go into VM and then, and then do it. So it's two button presses as you showed.

[B]

Like if you, if you turn it off, but then you change modes. Like you go, to sport mode for a bit and go back to normal. Didn't it turn auto stop back on? So even if same driving session, you haven't turned the car off, just the mode change, it puts it back, which is annoying.

[A]

Yeah. So that would, it would, that would really drive me insane. I would find a way. Like, I don't know, know, like if

[B]

they could do an update, like an OTA update where they. For that last complaint, if you have manually turned off auto stop start, the car should know you don't want it on for that drive. Regardless of what mode you change to. I completely just update that.

[A]

Yeah. But this I can't. It's so dangerous. I can't believe they're selling a car like this. It's just crazy because the rest of the car's so nice. It's got plenty of room in the back. Big truck, great brakes.

[B]

Seats were great for me.

[A]

Comfy seats, great steering, you know, no glitches in the software. Like CarPlay integration was lovely. Like generally like an incredibly nice thing to use, you know, in the northeast as your car. Just a fabulous thing. But like this, it's like fucking come on, man. Because you just won't remember to turn it off every time. You're just gonna forget and it's gonna remind you that you forgot by doing

[B]

in kind of scary ways. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And, and, and then, you know, because what happens is if it, if, if you're. If it come turns off at the wrong time, then it's because it's a sporty gas one.

[B]

You.

[A]

You smash the throttle and then it's like real jumpy, you know, the turbos spool up and, you know, and you're like, you know, you go too hard the other way with it. Really, really fucking infuriating for something that's like a lux considered luxury product from a brand that knows better.

[B]

I mean. Yeah, they're so good at most things. Yeah, this is just one of those. This is surprising lack of refinement, especially because it's a complaint we've had before.

[A]

Yeah. Crazy. But other than that, I do really like this vehicle. But when we took my dad's hybrid to pizza, that's really all you need. Shout out to Sunrise Pizza.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, that definitely rode softer, which was really nice. Of course. And having the hybrid helps a lot with so many of these things.

[A]

And it has massage seats.

[B]

Oh, it did, yeah.

[A]

Also, shout out to my friend Mike Zimmerman, who fucking rode his Husqvarna from Long island to the race on the fucking Connecticut Massachusetts Border back roads. And then at midnight when the race was done, rode fucking home.

[B]

I think they did. It was 320 miles that day, just rocking around New York back road.

[A]

But half of that was after midnight.

[B]

I know. And I was like, are you gonna ride back right now? And he was like, yeah. He was really excited about it.

[A]

He left his house in Long island, took the ferry over to Connecticut, did all these back roads, came, got to the race at whatever, five, you know, the whole time of the race, and then rode his motorcycle two and a half hours home after the race on like a supermoto.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Gnarly.

[B]

Very cool.

[A]

Yeah, That's a boss move.

[B]

Yeah. Shout out to him.

[A]

And Julian, you love to see it, but yeah, thanks to Porsche for giving me a ride for the week. Fix your start. Stop, please. Let's go to the people over at patreon. Patreon.com thesmokentyrepodcast. It's where you go to ask us live, live questions on the show and then watch the show live. Watch the show early, get the show without ads, get extra show and get early exclusive access to collabs and things such as the dope ass blazer I'm wearing right now. You can buy it. I just fixed our website so our merch tab directs to the blazer site. Zach's blazer is up there as well. Did Nick tell us who sold more blazers so far? You were ahead last time.

[B]

I haven't checked since then.

[A]

You were ahead last time. But this is my blazer and I, I fucking love it. And oh, our newest collab is coming very soon with Tactile Turn the pen maker again. We've done one with them before. It was great. We are now making the pen that I've been carrying around for a year, the smaller brass pen. But I have here a prototype. So this is what the brass looks like when it's new compared to what it looks like at after. Matt's fucking hands have been holding it for a year. So it has patinaed. Right. Wow. And then this is what the clip is gonna look like. That goes on it. It says the smoking tire down the clip. It's subtle. It's not super aggressive.

[B]

Well, it's a bright red clip, but then the brass pen. So it's a good contrast.

[A]

Yeah, it works. But the one that we're making is the size of mine.

[B]

Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, they do look different.

[A]

Yeah, I asked for the wrong thing in prototype. But it's the smaller one that is really, really nice for your everyday Carry as well as to leave on your desk. But it's smaller, it's a little lighter, but with the brass, you get this patina after like a year. It's pretty cool, huh? So that'll be fun. That's gonna be exclusive for patrons at first. And if we have any left after they are done with them, then they will go to the general public. Look at those handsome guys and those blazers. Wow.

[B]

I don't know what this is doing.

[A]

What happened? Does a website just have problems?

[B]

Cloudflare wants verification.

[A]

Wants to make sure that you're not a robot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Except you are.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

Very interesting. Let's go to the people. The Duffel Shuffle retirement club says is the Crown Vic the perfect car for automotive dirt bag activities. And what other cars stand out for this? Cletus said, and he's right, that the Crown Vic is the great equalizer. I mean, in qualifying, the difference between first and 20th was one second.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In the race, it was less. In the race, it was about a half second. Wow. Was the difference in lap times between first and last.

[B]

Everyone got quicker.

[A]

Well, and you can't go as quick in a field of cars. You know, you're limited by space and you drive a little differently than if you have a whole track to your yourself. And also people at the back that might have been more conservative in qualifying get quicker, but it is hard to pass people in those cars. They're the same speed. And so you've got this nitrous thing, but also. And that's worth maybe a half a second a lap on the nitrous. And then even super duper talent is only worth about a half a second a lap in this kind of race racing.

[B]

And if you really over, if you use too much nitrous on a straight and you really overcook it in a corner, you know, either you'll drift too much and lose speed or you will hit a wall. Yeah.

[A]

What other cars stand out? I mean, dude, anything with a V8 and a manual is really your king.

[B]

Fox body Mustang.

[A]

You're king of dirt bag cars. I think the 2010 Camaro SS has overshadowed the Fox body Mustang as the king of dirtbag cars.

[B]

That's probably. Yeah, that's a good time. I mean, f body Camaros, things that like, you'll see on a lift, like lifted for fun, which is cool. I feel like that indicates that the platform is ripe for fun.

[A]

Yeah. I saw in Greenwich the day before you got there, which is, you know, fucking the land of, you know, Blue, gray and tan. I saw a lifted Crown Vic Dually. That was a guy advertising his canine garter dog business, like German. And it was. The guy was sitting in it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Talking to somebody in a parking space. And he was the meatheadiest meathead ever. Just sitting there trolling for mommies in his dirt bag.

[B]

I can't believe that car was allowed in the town, honestly.

[A]

I know, I know Greenwich is like a sundown town, but if you have

[B]

a junkie car, well, because here, like I've seen, seen. Where was I? I was at a shooting range and this truck pulled in with a huge wrap livery on it. It was like a lifted weld wheels, everything but it said canine dog training on it. But it was like a new Raptor, you know, it was an $80,000 truck, not a $2,000 Crown Vic. Lifted and turned into a Dually.

[A]

Yeah. Josh G. Says, what skills transfer from endurance or road racing to the Cletus 900? And what aspect of this different type of race craft surprised you? I mean, knowing you can't win the race in qualifying or on the first

[B]

lap, saving the car.

[A]

Yeah. And sprint racers don't think like that. You know, if a race is 30 minutes long, they don't think like that. They're going for it on turn one. I'm used to doing a two hour stint in a race car and then having to hand the car off to somebody else and maybe even two other people. So, like, I know to make the car last, you can't fucking win if you don't finish. And how many cars finished the race out of 24? 14, 14 maybe. Yeah, I mean, so. And a bunch of them were really fast. Cletus didn't finish. You know, like, at least Swirl didn't finish. I think one of the NASCAR drivers didn't finish. Didn't Ryan. Did Ryan Priest finish?

[B]

Oh, he might have been out there.

[A]

Ryan Priest may have not finished. I mean, these are fucking NASCAR drivers. So, like technique, you know, beat them. So, yeah, you can't win if you don't finish. Certainly.

[B]

I think, I mean, eyes up as much as you can. And now you're limited because of Hans and like, you know, looking around a one, you can't look to the other side of the track, really. But just trying to look ahead and look for the cues that there was a crash happening proved really helpful. Yeah, as soon as I saw dust, I lifted and I was watching and I go, okay, I need to break or I need to get around this person.

[A]

Sure. And different. I mean, really, it's just you in road racing, there should not be any contact, really ever. If there is any contact, even small, you're getting, you're getting to talking to, if not an outright penalty. And in this, it's just like, you know, fucking get with the program, dude. And so I've. I've never been in a racing series where. Where contact is this prevalent and expected, you know, so that was, that was, that was. I expect, you know, I expected it. They told me this was going to be it. But then you're in the car.

[B]

I mean, I came away with a deeper respect for NASCAR and Cup drivers and whatever because the starts are kind of violent and you just got to learn to move, let the car move a little bit. People are pushing you, you're pushing people. And that's just like, yeah, stay in control while it feels a little out of control, which is true of racing. But, you know, they're just managing like this contact friction shit in addition to crazy arrow that we never deal with or people don't deal with in IMSA F1, you know, whatever.

[A]

Yeah. Johnny. Evie Gierberman. If you had the same idea as Cletus where you bought 40 of the same car to run but not a Crown Vic, what would you pick? We were joking years ago about doing the 12 hours of Sebring with all Chrysler Sebrings. I think they did that in Chump or something as a themed race. But like, Crown Vics are really, like unique in the space in that they're just such fucking tanks and they have V8s and they're so ubiquitous and there's so many like, like, so Camrys, I think is a logical answer. But they'd be let. The fact that a Crown Vic is rear drive and V8, it's a vibe because they cut the mufflers off these things and they sound like fucking race cars. And you can't do that in a Camry. You've seen the Toyota celebrity races and whatever.

[B]

But those are also the other problem with the Camry is it's a unibody car. So on these things, it's body on frame with the Crown Vic so they can pull body panels off and put new ones on and like, they can keep these race cars going as long as possible. But if you had a bunch of Camrys and they're smashing each other up, all of them are written off pretty much. Otherwise you're gonna have to like, hammer out unibody. I mean, you can't just like take it's not Legos.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So that would probably add your cost and the durability. I mean these things, the engines last pretty much forever. All of them had a cutout for cooling. I think they had better radiators, scoops. They basically keep them cool and. Yeah. And they can repair pretty much anything else.

[A]

Yeah, that would be. There's not a lot of other really good options in. I mean you could talk about early chargers. Right. Like 0506.

[B]

That'd be fun.

[A]

You know, five, seven Hemi chargers.

[B]

Fun. Still a unibody car.

[A]

They're unibody. They're like 350 horsepower. 6. Like they'd be fast.

[B]

Well, I was thinking like if you went 90s Silverado 15 but you lower them so that you want that weight distribution low, it might be tough to make them safe.

[A]

Safe and or comfortable because if they're single cab they wouldn't be comfortable. And also with the Crown Vicks, that second gear being exactly the right length for this type of oval racing is kind of unique in the space also. And you'd have to have a more complex car or you really don't even want a car that has a clutch pedal. I don't think that would be that beneficial to people in this race.

[B]

It would only help on starts. But then it would. People would lunch transmissions because these folks would drive them like they'd be slamming like a dog box and changing out transmissions. So you just like the whole production. I mean it's a traveling circus. That's amazing. So you need the cars to keep working and keep the maintenance down on those things. Like everything about this is really what well thought out and the cars are part of that.

[A]

Yeah. If money wasn't real like fox bodies would be a good time.

[B]

You know, that'd be really fun.

[A]

Yeah, but they're too expensive. Continuous south please. Nervous in the Nurburgring says best snack

[B]

during the race in Connecticut didn't have a snack. I did get hungry at lap 62.

[A]

I really controlled my water in. And thank you for giving me the electrolytes before the race. That was a good idea. And I didn't have to piss. But I also was not that thirsty. By the last 10 laps I was getting tired. I was like, man, I've been in this car for two and a half hours right now. But yeah, a second JZ has hit the supra. What other kinds of racing would you like to try that you haven't been able to try try yet?

[B]

Well, in a perfect world, off road racing like absolutely I don't think I will do that.

[A]

Your back might not.

[B]

I don't think it'll like that. But again, perfect world off road racing for sure. But I would like to do more oval stuff. Dirt, oval or. I mean, it was harder than I expected, even knowing what I know about driving. And I think it'd be just fun to learn that skill. And you know, as an observer, sometimes, like, the racing seems boring compared to stuff with more corners or more dynamic movement. But when you're in there, like, once you're competing and there's cars near you, it doesn't really matter. Like, it is very exciting to me.

[A]

Oh, when you're in the car, say what you will about it as a spectator sport, when you're in the car, it's extremely exciting and in many ways more exciting than road racing.

[B]

Because of the proximity.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, you're just always, always an inch from somebody. Dre from Houston says, how do you guys handle car guy talk? That's obviously bullshit. I had a lengthy conversation with a gentleman about his one of one Corvette C6 that is naturally aspirated, non nitrous, that's beaten Z06 and Hellcats and blah, blah, blah. And all I could say to him was, you showed him. I mean, yeah, you just let people talk and say, that's cool, man. Man, nice to meet you kind of. I've tried to correct people or whatever. If you really. If they start to be ridiculous, you can start to ask questions that you already know the answer to and ask and see if they'll, you know, how far into the weeds they'll get. But I have to deal with a lot of people saying some pretty weird things to me about cars. And you just go, yeah, man, that's. That's cool. Nice. Oh, man, I'm glad that that seems like the right thing for. For you perfectly. You know, and then. Yeah, then you move on. Alice in snow chains.

[B]

That's really funny.

[A]

What else, Alice? Is there a truck that's a car that sounds like Alice? We'll workshop that a little bit. Why did it take so long for manufacturers to slowly increase the steering ratios in performance cars? Was it not something consumers wanted? You mean quicken the ratio, which actually would reduce the steering ratio from like three turns, lock to lock to two. Why did it take so long? Well, I think if. Why did it take so long? You may need.

[B]

No, I. My guess is that steering was really slow for a long time, right? Like, yeah, 40s, 50s, 60s. Some of that was because you needed small gears. So that the leverage, you have the leverage to turn the wheels. Right. But then power steering came in. But I think it was just the times where people wanted a slow ratio and it took a long time for a different car company to go. Let's try making a little cool quicker for either probably for racing. So the driver doesn't have to do hand over hand. But that has to take time to trickle into the street cars. People have to learn to get used to it and like it. And then journalists go, wow, we really like that the Ferrari has much quicker steering and therefore it's easier to drive on this track or these corners. And now it's like, you know, everything that's kind of sporty combination of having E pass and I think just the. The Joneses is people go, yeah, I want a quicker ratio that I don't have to turn around and around as much is my guess.

[A]

It may also coincide with stickier tires that could handle a sharper turn in firmer suspensions, things like that. I mean imagine you had like a Dodge Polara that had a formula one style steering rack. You wouldn't actually even want someone to be able to steer the car faster than that. Right. So it all kind of has to evolve together, I think.

[B]

Plus the pendulum did swing too far for like little while. We would complain that the Ferrari ratios were too quick.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It was just. You had to move your hands so minutely to get the angle you wanted. And it was really easy to overturn.

[A]

But it was definitely a little. It's. I like it better now than if you go back to early 90s cars, particularly early 90s was really peak where sports cars still had old school kind of stuff steering by 2005, six like the 996s and the, let's say, oh, C6, C7 Corvettes, things like that. The steering ratio started to get much

[B]

quicker and then they got progressive racks. I don't know when those were invented. Someone will correct me, but that was also a stepping stone.

[A]

Beeping 8 Asshole says. What does original miles mean when describing a car? It could mean that the odometer hasn't been rolled back, that the engine hasn't been replaced. Usually it means that nothing major has been replaced. And the odometer accurately reflects the engine life. I think the mileage on the car. You haven't had any major accident rebuilds, major componentry replacements or inaccurate odometer reactions, readings. Usually. That's how I take it.

[B]

I always take it as the engine has the same miles, the odometer Has So the engine was never swapped or blown up or whatever.

[A]

And a lot of times people, if they do a full resto on a car, they'll reset the odometer to zero. So if it's an old car, if it's an old Mustang or something from the 60s, and if it has 5,000 original miles versus 5,000 miles since the restoration is how I would take it. Sunderwush optional carbon cuck chair says recently encountered two 911 dakars at a gas station hundreds of miles off the beaten path in Bum Fuck. Nowhere. That's cool. Where's the most unexpected place you've encountered something cool or rare? Unexpected place you've encountered a cool or rare car. Hmm.

[B]

Fish underwater. I mean I saw a Taurus X today. I didn't even know what it was like.

[A]

Oh yeah.

[B]

Like wait, they made this while making the explore.

[A]

It was the free style and then they rebranded it Taurus X. Weird. Yeah. Unexpected place you've encountered something cool or rare. I saw an Aventador in Tenerife. Didn't think I would see an Aventador in Tenerife.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In Monaco I saw a 1989 Cadillac Fleetwood that had been registered in Monaco since almost new, I think. Thought that was pretty wild.

[B]

That was a pretty good one. I think when we were at the Nurburgring there was that taller, the old Mini that was taller and had white rally wheels. It kind of looked like it would drive in the forest around the Nurburgring and that was just like, you know, M3, GT3, blah blah, blah. And then this thing was out there hundreds of miles.

[A]

I mean, I've more been like impressed when I've seen, seen like I've been off roading in off road vehicles and been so far in the middle of nowhere on a trail and seen like a Jetta.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like with like six farmers in it just fucking bouncing on the bump stops.

[B]

You know that famous video of the Town Car in Moab? Yeah. That like pulls up next to these jeeps and then just goes up whatever trail. It's got like a bicycle and the trunk's open and it just, it has enough grip.

[A]

If you don't get one a fuck, you can do anything with any car. It's like that. What was the French, the Grand Tour thing they did with the French cars where they just, it was just talk. The whole special was about how the French just treat their cars like absolute disposable garbage and they just did a bunch of quote, normal things in their French cars that destroyed them.

[B]

It's called carnage a trois.

[A]

Oh yes, right.

[B]

Carnage a trois.

[A]

I miss when AI just meant a shop in West Street Chester. Is there a point at which doing low annual mileage in a car is worse than doing no mileage? Between competing interests of family and work, I find myself struggling to do more than a couple hundred miles a year in my fun car. Would I be better to park it and store it for a few years until things calm down? Or is some miles better than no miles? It's usually 15 to 25 mile drives at a time. I believe if you get the fluids up to temperature and things move moving up to operating temperature, it's better to do that once a month than to do nothing by a lot. Actually if you can stomach also servicing the car every other year, then you'll be all right.

[B]

If it just sits, that's not good. The seals start to dry out because you need the fluids inside them to sling around and you wet the top of the seal otherwise it's going to dry and crack more quickly.

[A]

Yeah, self lubricating systems, you gotta get that thing up to temperature once or twice a month if you can. I mean and even if you can't, even if you can't drive it like it's driving it is the best. But even if you have to idle it until it gets up to temperature like that's better than nothing. We do that here with cars. Edward shifterhands I am looking to add a new car. I have a Camaro SS1 LE manual and I'm looking to add either a big body cruiser or something 4 body. I live in the country, in Texas so something alternating to drive to work on back highways. I wouldn't mind something unique with some character but it needs to be relatively reliable. A big body cruiser or a 4x4.

[B]

Okay. I wish we had the budget.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I'm like well Ranger Raptor would be great but that's a fifty thousand dollar truck.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I don't know if that's in your budget. So.

[A]

Interesting. Big body cruise. So I mean I want to say like a 96 Chevy Impala SS but like EH. I would say Mercury Marauder with a fucking Kenny Bell supercharger could do it.

[B]

That's a great thing.

[A]

You know I would say some kind of Mercedes station wagon.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Could do it.

[B]

Accord wagon if you want to go like super reliable.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because if you're out in the middle of nowhere, Texas, make sure that you're near a service center. Like if you have a Mercedes wagon for example, that can take care of that thing.

[A]

Yeah. I mean you could go like a big body Mercedes, like a S500 big coupe.

[B]

I'm gonna go two door Tahoe. Oh yeah, because that's, it's got style, it's a truck but it's also kind of like a big cruiser.

[A]

I do like a two door Tahoe. They're fun. Yeah, that's a good choice. Two door Tahoe is a good one. I like that one. Yeah. Or maybe an 03 like F150 lightning if you could find a really nice one. Those are. They're pretty comfy.

[B]

Yeah, they're fast.

[A]

Those are cool.

[B]

That's a cool one.

[A]

Taycan care of business I'm looking at a Z8 for a summer weekend car. What are your thoughts? No Porsches, no Corvettes.

[B]

My thoughts are yes.

[A]

I love a Z8. Big fan.

[B]

Yeah. No notes. One of the best looking cars ever made.

[A]

Yeah they're fun. It's a fun 710 car.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If it's not, it's not a GT3 but it's a nice touring car. Looks great, comfortable. Sounds good.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Relatively flat depreciation if you use it. You know they're kind of expensive to run. Sort of like the E39 M5 the service but flat depreciation. So pay the cost to be the boss. And they still look awesome. Probably the best looking BMW.

[B]

And the inside also looks amazing.

[A]

Yeah. Your poorest patron. I doubt that sir. For a city person that has off street parking and can charge using a basic 110 outlet and does less than 200 miles a month. Month. Would an electric car be a burden? Never had one. Debating trying to trying an Ioniq 6. 200 miles a month. An electric car would not be a burden.

[B]

Nope. And it's actually a great choice.

[A]

Yeah. Even if you only ever had to use public charging. 200 miles a month. Yeah, charging.

[B]

You could charge it once a month.

[A]

You could charge it once a month and you'll be fine.

[B]

I think.

[A]

I think an Ioniq 6 has at least a 300 mile range if not close to 4. It's a very efficient car. Weird looking but efficient.

[B]

And if you're driving, driving, I mean this is like 8 miles a day. You can charge that on a 110 overnight no problem.

[A]

Yeah, you can add about 2 miles per hour on a 110 charger so you know you park that thing overnight you can add 30, 30, 40 miles no problem.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I think you'd be fine. Honestly run gmc. Nice listening to you guys Talk about how the Testaross is somewhat of a disappointment and Chevy keeps pace at a cheaper price point. What do elite companies like Ferrari have to do to distinguish themselves as elite hypercar manufacturers? Well, I mean, in my opinion, the cars have to look really great. Yeah, they have to look unmistakably beautiful. That's just my opinion. And if they don't deliver on that and they're, you know, and they used to have very exotic engines compared to, compared to what the American manufacturers were doing. And now Chevy's got a flat plane crank, naturally aspirated V8. It sounds like a fucking 458. They've got a twin turbo motor that sounds like they're. That sounds better than the Ferrari's current twin turbo V8. Like if the car's not beautiful, what are we gonna do?

[B]

I think that's what you're left with. I think the interior should also be beautiful and interesting and made from material that, you know, GM couldn't touch because of the cost, you know, that GM is always going to have. They'll have leather, fine, but they're going to have what the button selection, the design of things. That's where Ferrari and other companies could shine. And I. They're not right now with the too much capacitive and stuff. That was high tech a little while ago. But I think you got to go back to like levers, 550 style, like levers, toggles, you know, things that look and feel expensive.

[A]

Dude, imagine think about a 90 in 1990. You had the 355 GTB and you had a Corvette ZR1. They were about the same in terms of performance. And I know that because I just wrote it for the Evoluto story. About the same in terms of performance. But look at the two of them. There's a reason that you look at the leather, you look at the interior, they're not the same at all. The sound of the engines, the. The way that the whole thing is put together now. They're both mid engine. They have the same sort of engine type of technology, the exotic technology. The interiors are screens. In fact, GM has more buttons now than the other ones. You could argue that the Ferrari interior is more beautiful than the GM interior, but is it that much? They're not in completely different universes of quality.

[B]

And we've driven cars that are cheaper than Ferrari, but their gauge cluster can do more things than.

[A]

So that's sort of why we can. We're talking about them in the same vein. Like if they don't Hit the mark of untouchable beauty and interiors that are really a cut above what the other car's doing. The mystique only gets you so far. And you don't need to put an aftermarket exhaust on a Corvette Z06, I assure you that. But you would on a tester. Rosa Lexisonfire says a 911 Carrera S manual. You'd have to get an old manual, I guess a used S manual because now you need A T&C8.06 are about the same price. What would be the better purchase for someone who would like a daily driver and commuter in the Northeast? 4 out of 10 on the twisty scale roads. I intend to drive it all week winter on plowed road with a good set of snow tires, 10,000 miles a year. I mean for a true daily driver, I'd rather have the 911.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

It's a little more comfortable, it's a little more user friendly. A C8Z06 is a fabulous weekend car. But I'm not really sure I'd like to daily one in four seasons. Even though I think it would be a fucking boss move for you to do it. If you said I'm dailying a Z06 in four seasons, I'd be like, hell yeah, brother, good for you. You're a fucking. You're a boss. But if you're asking which is actually the better move, probably the 911.

[B]

You know, if I'm driving in the winter, I'd like to have as much visibility as possible and I think, you know, rearward over the shoulder and stuff. The 911 has a much bigger greenhouse for that reason. That's part of it for me. Yeah,

[A]

I think, yeah, I think I'd rather have a 911 for four seasons in the northeast. But either fuck, you'd be a boss if you got that Z06, you would certainly have respect of this podcast. Johnny Lieber Contrary man. Lieber Contrary man. Liber contrariman. Ever driven an Ascari? Have not. I have not. The biggest bush says I asked about a few weeks back about a change from my E92 M3 in the 70-80k range. I have a curveball opportunity guy I know locally looking to sell his 99 speed yellow 911 Carrera factory air arrow kit, optional LSD. Done my homework on them, but any thoughts on early 996s in general? They don't do it for me. They don't really do it for me, but speed yellow is all right. Factory Arrow kit some people care about. I don't really care. LSD is a good option to have. That looks like a speed yellow arrow kit package right there.

[B]

Oh no.

[A]

Speed yellow's bottom right is the brighter. The brighter one is speed yellow. That looks like it's a couple of different colors, doesn't it? Yeah, that has been painted badly, but you know, it's not for me. But it's probably a nice entry Point

[B]

into 9 11s and like, dude, if you like the styling and then that for me that's what matters. Like if you like the styling, if you like the way these wings look and stuff, then get it like truly. And if someone doesn't like it, well, them. That's a better one, right? Yeah, that's a.

[A]

That one looks less crashed evenly painted. Yeah, that one, that, that one looks. That one looks all right.

[B]

Huh.

[A]

Flying monkey. Oh, do we already. When buying a car, I know you guys have rules and one of them is no Florida cars. Can you expand? Do you mean any car with any history of being owned in Florida or only currently registered owned Florida vehicles? I mean all Florida registration is a red flag to me. All history or current? Because Florida is the fucking has Florida floods, they have hurricanes and it's the fucking title washing capital of the universe. We were just talking to somebody, our friend very recently about how part of their actual business model is fucking washing titles through their business in Florida for imported cars.

[B]

Yeah, that and one other place. Yeah, I think you just like I would have to get a really thorough PPI to really look at. Are there signs of moisture, mold, flooding? I mean there's so much rain there. Like if, especially if the car is really used, are all the seals really good, you know, or any of them cracking and then water seeping in somewhere? There's just a lot of like risks I guess. Yeah. Otherwise it feel wrong.

[A]

And also the. Yeah, the humidity and it's nasty. It's just nasty. People. So many people put a lot of chemicals on their bodies there like lotions and things that end up like just all. It's just, it's just GROSS. Like there's 49 other states just buy cars from the other states. That's just my rule. I'm not telling you buy from Florida, but you asked so I don't buy cars from Florida. So jacking off the record, Tesla cyber cabs are popping up in Miami. Do you think two seat taxis have a place in US cities like rickshaws or tomorrow tuk tuks in Asia or do four seat taxis still make the most sense. I saw a Cyber cab in la, actually small.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I haven't done math on this. I mean, of all the grifty, scammy shit Tesla has done, making the Cyber Cab a two seater is not high on the list of things they've done. For me, that's problematic. I mean, I'm sure somebody did some math and found that the vast majority of cab rides are two or less people. And maybe for some sort of efficiency reasons or packaging reasons or what the fuck ever reasons, they decided that the math is better on doing that. I mean, even a business like Tesla does do some things in good faith.

[B]

I agree. We've speculated before about the whole average passenger ride is one or two people people. And then a side benefit, whether it's planned or not, is if there's a party of four and they're all going somewhere, they can take two, you know, cybercasts, and then Tesla gets double the revenue for this group.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, Waymo's going the other way with, you know, their, their new vani. Things that hold even more people. I think five people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So if it was me having having done no actual research into the taxi business, just fucking on vodka, I would probably have vehicles that sat four people because why not? But like, you know, who knows? He's a trillionaire. He must be smarter. He must know the answer. He must know everything. She likes a choke to get started. First time ever. Yesterday I got stranded on top of Mount Baker in Washington. The fuel pump died on my SC and I had to get towed 100 miles. Have you had to get a roadside tow?

[B]

So many. Oh my God, are you kidding? I have a BMW. Yeah, I didn't get towed. My Crown Vic.

[A]

Yeah, I've had two in the Countach. I had to do my own recovery in pebble beach when the Manx blew a fuse on me. Yeah, I mean Many, many my 328 died once. I forget why

[B]

my car gets towed somewhere at least once per year for sure. I threw a helicoil. Well, I threw a plug out of the Crown Vic up north of Santa Barbara. Had to get towed like 130 miles to a place that could put a helicoil in it.

[A]

Threw the accessory drive belt off the Vanquish doing a donut in the Grand Prix New York parking lot. Had to get towed to the dealer.

[B]

I had to get flat towed with a friend in his RX7 because we ran out of gas like cannonballing from Colorado to the Bay Area and then the engine blew up about a day later.

[A]

We had to get that Konig Testarossa towed.

[B]

Oh yeah?

[A]

Yeah, probably. Pro tip, if you call roadside assistance and they say are you in a safe place? And you say no, they show up fast as fuck. That's a pro tip from your boys here, Speedmaster. And then I have to go. Recently modified my ND Miata with a short final drive and it's now the most engaging street car I've ever driven with three shifts to get to 60 and sixth gear is so long that my highway miles per gallon is unchanged.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

Other than your Spider, what other cars could benefit from much shorter gears. So there's not a lot of cars that could necessarily benefit from just a universal final drive change. Right. A lot of times cars can benefit from changing all but the Top Gear, for instance, or something like that. Like my Spider Fox body Mustangs we used to do the rear ends in all the time Camaros. Us Mustangs are currently available with multiple rear ends from the factory as an option. So that's pretty cool. Various trucks and maybe a Crown Vic race car probably.

[B]

When I did my Crown Vic, the lsd, I think I shortened the gears slightly and I'm going to do it in my car when I get my axle seals done.

[A]

Yeah, so many, many cars can benefit from advantage in gear ratios. The Acura, the nsx. Honestly, you can do shorty gear set in the first gen NSX and it makes quite a difference. I have to interview some people right now, but thank you all for listening. We enjoy you. Thank you for your patronage, patrons and your good questions today. I'll let you have more details as soon as I have them on our tactile turn collab, please. If you're going to get our Blazer, get it in by August 6th. That's the limit for cutoffs for, for orders and yeah, we'll see you next time. Bye.