Rivian R1S Quad review; I Hate Sims; 1st Waymo Ride

Summary

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The Smoking Tire Podcast

Rivian R1S Quad Review; I Hate Sims; 1st Waymo Ride

Date: December 4, 2025
Hosts: Matt Farah, Zack Klapman

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, Matt Farah and Zack Klapman deliver an in-depth review of the Rivian R1S Quad Motor, share Matt’s simmering frustration with race simulators, and dissect Zack’s first ride in a Waymo autonomous vehicle. Alongside these headline discussions, the duo touches on racing prep, automotive news (including Jaguar’s design shake-up), and answers a windfall of listener questions. The episode is punctuated by equal parts wit, real-world insight, and automotive nerdiness.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Travel Fatigue and Racing Prep (01:55–10:08)

• Matt’s been on a non-stop travel bender—narrates humorously about “vacationing in your normal life.”
• Caught in an airline status chase: needs just one more Delta flight for diamond status.
  • “Why would Delta not reality show tension this to the end of the year, like F1?” – Matt (02:26)
• Debates where to fly last-minute for mileage: “I’d rather not just fly somewhere, turn around. I’d like to do something of interest.” – Matt (04:01)
• Upcoming race in Texas: original car down, upgrade to BMW M240 Club Sport—a “turnkey race car.”
  • Discusses how wealthy “racetrack country club” members skip Miatas for something flashier, but ultimately end up relating to Miata’s charm (07:23–07:47)

2. Sim Racing Struggles: Matt vs. the Machine (10:12–25:12)

• Matt’s infuriating training session on a racing sim at Sergio’s garage.
  • “I am horrible at Sims. So fucking bad at them.” – Matt (10:16)
• The sim car (Ford FR500 Mustang) didn’t handle like the real M3 expected for the race.
• Details relentless spinning out at Circuit of the Americas (CoTA):
  • “I am not able to complete a single lap without spinning out… in all different fucking places.” – Matt (15:10)
  • No traction control: “If you gave me three hours in a real car on a racetrack, bro, I’m in the hunt.” (20:53)
• Finds sim feedback less intuitive than real car dynamics; discusses game physics vs. reality (19:38–21:30).
• Positive takeaways: watching a skilled driver’s sim line is useful, but the mental fatigue is real.

3. On-Track Logistics & Race Prep (24:03–32:09)

• Planning for race weekend driver stints, practice, qualifying.
• Weather could impact practice sessions.
• Discussions on seat time, wet vs. dry track, and cockpit ergonomics (visibility issues with driver nets at CoTA).
• Helmet audio: prefers earbuds with integrated comms.
• Light-hearted aside about race car volume—“there are worse things than a race car that's not that loud.” – Matt (26:53)

4. Rivian R1S Quad Motor Review (33:00–48:55)

• Matt’s overall impression: outstanding build and ride quality, but questions who needs a $120,000, 1000-hp SUV.
  • “I’m not sure who’s gonna buy into this… You can get a dual motor Rivian… for half the money.” – Matt (33:17)
• Praises suspension (body control, damper options), fit and finish, and ride comfort.
  • “The body control on the suspension is so nice. Just beautiful riding car.” – Matt (33:17)
• Quirks: Shortened wheelbase makes steering feel unusually quick, almost “rally car-like” in a three-row SUV (35:13).
  • “It is uncomfortable to launch this car and this one had the knobbies on it. So it’ll just spin all four wheels. It’s nuts. The power is nuts.” – Matt (36:28)
• Customizable drive modes and “tuner screen” lauded for user-friendliness (37:07–37:44).
• Hilarious aside about a weird badge—“It’s some kind of hairy monster in a Marty McFly vest.” – Matt (38:59)
• Praises: wet weather handling, advanced headlights, nav, camera systems.
  • “The cameras are great… Hannah was so blown away with the Rivian’s backup camera.” – Matt (39:58)
• Criticisms: rear seat comfort is “notably worse” than front, possibly wheel/tire dependent (41:40–42:30).
• Overall: very refined, but “nobody needs a thousand horsepower in a thing like this. That’s crazy.” (43:08)
• EV off-roading is awesome: “It’s like walking without using your feet.” – Matt (47:18)
• Anticipation for the upcoming R2 and R3 Rivians, which should scale down the formula.

5. Automotive News: Jaguar Design Boss Fired (49:06–51:20)

• Discusses Jerry McGovern’s departure from JLR amid mixed reception for new Jaguar concepts.
  • “Land Rover design since ’06 has turned out some pretty decent looking vehicles.” – Matt (49:30)
• Comments on the sometimes fickle public reaction to concept cars, and the impact of executive and design turnover.

6. Listener Q&A Highlights (55:16–97:44)

Vehicle Ownership and Market Trends

• “Why are so many 911 owners afraid to put miles on their cars?”: Matt argues many Porsche owners—especially in CA—drive them regularly (86:35–88:09).
• “Would you trade the Countach for a Diablo or Murciélago?”:
  • “The poster car exists in stasis. There is no, there’s no like… let me upgrade this.” – Matt (92:08)

Used Car Picks & Value

• Boxster S as a bargain: “While it’s working, that’s probably about as good as it gets.” – Matt (61:19)
• Cars with driving experience higher than value: C8 Z06, non-numbers-matching classics, kit Cobras/GT40s, 996 911s, etc. (63:41–65:51)
• Options that tank or improve value: manual Ferraris, color choices, roof design, and the notorious SMG transmission (62:03–90:17).

Maintenance & Ownership

• Wrenching: Zack enjoys the focus/mechanical therapy; Matt prefers to leave it to pros for high-performance cars (81:22-82:25).
• Used G-Wagons: fun but “cost a fucking fortune to run” (73:22–74:13)

Miscellaneous

• Favorite old car names to revive: “Galaxy would have been a good one for electric cars.” – Matt (93:44)
• Opinions on black wheels: they make wheels look smaller; generally less visually appealing unless done with care (82:54–84:07).
• Comparisons among used sports cars (Miata vs. Boxster S vs. C5 Corvette):
  • “Fuck. Mary. Kill. All right, fine. You marry the Miata. You fuck the Porsche. You kill the Corvette.” – Matt (92:04)

7. First Waymo Ride: Autonomous Impressions (55:52–60:47)

• Zack takes a Waymo to dinner through LA; driving style alternates between “aggressive” and surprisingly “meek.”
  • Describes zigzagging routing as it tries to find the best path.
  • Matt explains Waymo still uses local cut-throughs because “there’s just not enough of them for people to complain.” (57:32)
• Noted upsides: impressive LIDAR/pedestrian detection at night, cinema experience in the car.
• Downsides: no driver means no one to remove trash, adjust front seat for rear passengers, etc.
  • “This was someone’s trash can. And that’s just. That’s gonna happen.” – Matt (60:47)

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Notable Quotes & Time Stamps

• On Airline Status:
  • “Reality show tension this to the end of the year, like F1.” – Matt (02:26)
• On Sim Racing:
  • “I am horrible at Sims. So fucking bad at them.” – Matt (10:16)
  • “For the first hour… I am not able to complete a single lap without spinning out.” – Matt (15:10)
• On Racing Realities:
  • “If you gave me three hours in a real car on a racetrack, bro, I’m in the hunt.” – Matt (20:53)
• On the Rivian R1S Quad:
  • “The body control... the damper settings are like really nice. Just beautiful riding car. …Build quality has been ratcheted up... a really nicely made thing.” – Matt (33:17)
  • “It’s like a Ferrari 812 steering ratio in something with a shorter wheelbase.” – Matt (35:14)
  • “Nobody needs a thousand horsepower in a thing like this. That’s crazy.” – Matt (43:08)
• On Autonomous Cars:
  • “Waymos will still do the mad avoidance through residential shit that Waze won’t have you doing anymore.” – Matt (57:34)
• On Poster Cars:
  • “The poster car exists in stasis… That was the dream. The dream is real.” – Matt (92:12)
• On Car Names:
  • “Galaxy would have been a good one for electric cars.” – Matt (93:44)

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Notable and Memorable Moments

• Sim Racing Exasperation: Matt’s emotional arc during three hours of sim practice is both comedic and relatable.
• Mystery Badge on Rivian: A hilarious debate over whether Rivian’s cartoon rear badge is “Teen Wolf,” Chewbacca, or “a Yogi Bear that’s been through a rave.” (38:41)
• Waymo Zigzag Routes: Zack is amused and confused by the self-driving car’s tendency to cut through residentials, prompting Matt's explanation about routing algorithms and resident complaints (56:46–57:34).
• Poster Car Rant: Matt’s passionate assertion that you don’t “trade up” your poster car—Countach stays forever (92:08).
• Listener Q&A Banter: Includes gems on the value of high-mileage sports cars, funky car names to revive, and the quirks of cheap G-Wagons.

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• Travel fatigue & airline points: 01:55–06:11
• Racing sim struggles: 10:12–25:12
• Race event prep: 24:03–32:09
• Rivian R1S Quad review: 33:00–48:55
• Waymo ride discussion: 55:52–60:47
• Jaguar design boss news: 49:06–51:20
• Listener Q&A: 55:16–97:44

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Tone and Language

Matt and Zack riff with their signature blend of irreverence, sarcasm, and seasoned automotive expertise. Matt’s colorful language punctuates his frustrations and insights, while Zack’s quick wit and technical curiosity balance the conversation. The episode is casual, candid, and welcoming to both enthusiasts and general listeners.

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Transcript

[Matt Farah]

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All right, folks, on this episode of the podcast, we review the Rivian R1S quad motor and ask who needs a 1000 horsepower off roader? Also, I learned that I am frickin terrible at the racing simulator and I frustrate myself into a passable lap time while practicing for racing in Texas. Plus, Jaguar's design boss gets fired and Zach takes his first waymo. That's today on the Smoking Tire podcast. Let's go.

Okay, fine. Really? I see us.

But can you hear us?

[Zach Klippenstein]

Only if you really listen to yourself.

[Matt Farah]

Am I clear to you? Hi. What's happening.

Man? Feels like I'm passing through my own life right now. Meaning like six days in New York, vacation, Thanksgiving, home for two days and I'm like tomorrow morning I'm leaving again at 6am.

That is weird.

[Zach Klippenstein]

It feels like you're feel you're vacationing in your normal.

[Matt Farah]

Feels like I'm just like stopping by my normal life on the way to some other shit.

[Zach Klippenstein]

That's kind of. That's true.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klippenstein]

That's what you're doing.

[Matt Farah]

I gotta fucking stop this trip. This, this is this, this was gonna be the last trip. I'm going to Texas tomorrow to go racing, which would be awesome. It was supposed to be the last trip of the year and then Delta, they fucking got me, dude. Of course they got me. Why wouldn't they? Why would Delta not reality show tension this to the end of the year, like F1. What do I mean? I mean I am literally one more flight short of making diamond for next year. All the fucking Flying I've done. And it has come down to, well, guess what? You have to take one more.

[Zach Klippenstein]

It's all come down to Abu Dhabi.

[Matt Farah]

It's not even far. Yeah, it's Vegas. It's America's Abu Dhabi. That's actually.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah, it's true.

[Matt Farah]

So yeah, I need to find an excuse to go anywhere now on Delta for any reason for the rest of the year.

[Zach Klippenstein]

The shortest flight they offer basically.

[Matt Farah]

Well, they said if I buy a round trip first class to Vegas, that'll do it. Or I could go like comfort to Utah, Colorado. I could go skiing for a day in Colorado. But the other problem is do you want to go somewhere that's then far from the airport once you get. You know what I mean? Like I kind of want to go somewhere that's like where I won't have to then rent a car and do a whole other thing like.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Right, right, right. Where can you just ticking this box. That's all. You just want to tick the flight box.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, but like, I mean I'd rather not just like fly somewhere, turn around. Like I'd rather like, I'd like to do something of interest.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Someone said fly LAX to Burbank.

[Matt Farah]

I don't even think they offer that.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Sarah flew to Palm Springs from la. Yeah, you can do that. It was somehow a one hour flight. Yeah. But the plane she was on goes 500 miles per hour and 100 miles basically. And we're all sitting there at dinner like how did it take so long? Like you had to go fly west. You fly west, take off west, Turn around.

[Matt Farah]

It's 100 miles direct. But the distance traveled is probably more like 300.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

And I don't think they can't. If that plane peaks can go 500. There's no way it's doing that. Yeah, planes fly economy speed, by the way. That's why they can. If they're like a half hour late, they can magically make that shit up.

[Zach Klippenstein]

We're going to make some time a little more acceleracion.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, yeah. No, the LA to Palm Springs is that one's. That one's. That one you only do if you're going to Palm Springs on a Friday afternoon. Other than that, that's way too short for that.

We could go to.

See what's a cool city that's like between an hour and two hours flying from here. I was thinking Santa Fe. A night in Santa Fe. That's a nice, that's like a nice place to spend a one nighter.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Seattle.

[Matt Farah]

Seattle's all right. But I don't need to go that far. Seattle is a legit three hour flight and I don't need all that.

Right. It's. There's kind of limited options. But like I mean I could do. San Francisco is an easy one.

[Zach Klippenstein]

You like Santa Fe though, right? Flagstaff. Could you fly there?

[Matt Farah]

Flagstaff is nice for a night. That restaurant was so good in Flagstaff. Wow. I would eat there again. I forget the name of it. Fuck me. Was it good? Santa Fe. I haven't had enough time in. I think Santa Fe could be one. If I could get a Delta, go to Sedona. I could do a night at Sedona. We don't need to look this up now. Anyway. Anyway, I thought I would only. I thought this was gonna be the last flight. But. Nope. Nope.

[Zach Klippenstein]

But anyway.

[Matt Farah]

But racing.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

So get this. Our race car has been upgraded. We were going to be racing.

I believe that we arrive in driving an entire car. Sergio, Tato, Tommy. I think Justin is not coming. But Lieberman and me and it's arrive and drive. But apparently this M3E92 that is the car. The expected car is like something's wrong with it. It's not running right. So they've upgraded us to the factory. The M2 or 240 M240 Club Sport. Like the BMW turnkey race car. Which is not like that's gonna be a nice handling car. Like that'll be.

[Zach Klippenstein]

That'll be lighter in the front.

[Matt Farah]

That'll be cake to drive. That's gonna be. That'll be fabulous.

[Zach Klippenstein]

That's BMW's Miata basically.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. It's like when we went down. Remember we were down at Concourse Club in Miami talking to Aaron who's the guy down there and he said yeah, everybody who gets a membership gets. Just gets one of these. They all just. That's what everybody gets. It's like my first race car.

[Zach Klippenstein]

My first for Fisher Price.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Cause if you're like rich you're not. If you have real money, you look at a Miata and you just go no.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah. That's true.

[Matt Farah]

You know what I mean? We know Miatas are great. Miata racing is awesome. And if you're a 17 year old hot shoe who really wants to be somebody then you're racing Miatas. But if you're 65 and joining a racetrack country club, you are not starting in Miatas.

[Zach Klippenstein]

But I bet you will at some point end up at Miata once you like learn the benefits of it and stuff. But yeah, you're going to start with something that's more expensive, better brand.

[Matt Farah]

Well, you want. I mean and you want something like if you. If you're going to get a. You wanted something that feels fast.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Like this, this. You. You floor it and it like, you know, it's. That's a. It's like a 350 horsepower or so car.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Oh, okay.

[Matt Farah]

Isn't it is. It's the M240. I. Yeah. It's got to be like 380. Was it 382 or 360 was like the, the stock car when we drove it.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah. It was pretty stout. Yeah. And that thing handled great.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klippenstein]

It felt way lighter than the. The other cars we drove. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

I mean imagine that gutted with a cage. That'll be. That'll be a great time.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Oh, I'm. I was mixing this up with the little four banger thing. No, this is gonna be fast.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Okay. This is gonna be very fast. We drove the all wheel drive one.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. The purple one, the eggplant one.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

It was really fast.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

These are not all wheel drive. These are rear wheel drive obviously. But. But they're the ZF8 speed.

Yeah. That's it.

That is the car.

It should be. It should be a. Now what? I don't know. I don't know if it's the current one.

Or the last gen one.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Okay.

[Matt Farah]

So I actually haven't. It doesn't really matter for our purposes. I mean the current. The current one. I don't think it's the current one. Something tells me that for this type of race they would be running.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Okay.

[Matt Farah]

Running the last gen car. Either way, good time race car is cool.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Do you know, I mean the cockpit of this new one looks very.

[Matt Farah]

I doubt it's.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah. It's like that M4GT.

[Matt Farah]

So weird that they've left this. The weird giant double screen in this race car.

[Zach Klippenstein]

You think they chopped the top of the steering wheel off so you could see the screen?

[Matt Farah]

That's so. It's so crazy. The only thing they've left from the interior is the giant double screen.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Sure. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

And there's nothing left to hold on the interior's gut. It's just a screen now.

[Zach Klippenstein]

I mean there's probably. Maybe there's just too many computers involved with screen diagnostics and stuff. They just go why, why change it out?

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, look. God, does it look terrible with that steering wheel though.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah. But it'll be fun, you know.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, I know. I'm sure it drives fun. I'M sure it drives great, dude.

[Zach Klippenstein]

That's cool.

[Matt Farah]

So we'll see how this goes. Now, you want to talk about your.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Training for this event?

[Matt Farah]

Oh, my God, dude. I went to the sim up at Sergio's garage. They've got a nice sim and they didn't have, they got. It's not a motion sim, but it's the three screens and the, you know, it's pretty good iracing. And.

They were like, you know, I really, I wanted to do some sim training. And Tato's really, really into the sim because he's like a kid. Yeah, of course he is. And I am horrible at Sims. So fucking bad at them. Like folks taking a break from the action because support is coming in hot from Aura Frames. Aura Frames is the answer to every holiday gifting moment. You'll never struggle again to find the right holiday gift for your loved ones. Especially if you have children and you are tired of constantly having to send pictures and keep up with everyone in your family sharing pictures of the kids. Here's what you do. You send them all an aura frame. Send Aura frames to like 10, 12 people and then tell them each they're going to have their own special connection with you through the aura frame. Right? But they all really have the same one. Then you just download the app. The Aura app. You connect to wifi, preload some photos so it ships with photos on it. But then upload photos easily and effortlessly straight from your phone all year long. It comes with a gift box. And am I suggesting that you scam your friends and family by saying that they have a unique photo set in their aura frames? Yes, I am. The odds are they'll never notice the difference. They won't know. Even if they go to someone else's house, they'll. It's not exactly the same. I personalized it a little bit. It's so easy. They can all get covered in one shopping experience with Aura Frame. And for a limited time, save on the perfect gift by visiting auraframes.com to get $35 off Aura's best selling carver, Matte FR, named number one by Wirecutter by using promo code Tire at checkout. That's a U R A frames.com promo code tire auraframes.com, promo code tire. The deal is exclusive to listeners and the frames sell out fast. So order yours now to get it in time for the holidays. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. Also brought to you today by Deleteme. They are making it easy Quick and safe to get your old personal data offline at a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable. Look, when you sign up for a new website, when you buy something online, when you make an account anywhere, they then sell your data. That's just like how it works. Your data is the commodity and anyone can buy it. This can easily lead to identity theft or phishing or harassment. And now you can protect your privacy with Deleteme. Data brokers buy this data from the websites that you sign up with and then sell it to anybody else, which is how you end up with spam, emails, scam, text messages, creepy phone calls, the whole deal, right? And as someone with an online presence, this level of privacy is frustrating because I need to use my own phone number for stuff and my own email address for stuff, right? But DeleteMe is here to help, right? Basically, you sign up for DeleteMe, you enter all your information, current and past, and then DeleteMe goes to work deleting all of this stuff. Now, some of it they can delete automatically. Some of it you have to then acknowledge with a couple of clicks. Some you have to like, sign your name. But they keep going. They do it once, they do it twice. As long as you keep your account active, they keep going regularly finding and removing stuff you don't want on the Internet. And now you can take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for DeleteMe. It's a special discount we're offering for our listeners this holiday season. 20% off your delete me plan when you go to JoinDeleteMe.com Tire and then use promo code tire at checkout. That's the only way to get 20% off is to go to JoinDeleteMe.com Tire and enter code Tire at checkout. That's JoinDeleteMe.com Tire code Tire.

They just. They don't. I don't. I don't. I need to. I need to feel something to drive. Like, I just have to like. And things happen in sims that would never happen to me in cars, such as what happened yesterday, which is I was on the sim for three hours. I was so frustrated and upset. They didn't have. He couldn't build the exact car that the M3 that we were supposed to be. So he found the closest power to weight and lap time that they had in iracing is the Ford FR500 Mustang was the closest he could find. Okay, this is a car that does not handle. This is a solid Axle race car. Okay. This is what. This is a car. This is a race car from like 12 years ago or something like pre IRS. Okay. And this is a not. Not a very good handling race car, but it is apparently capable of running similar lap times to whatever this, this M3 was doing at Coda. So anyway, it doesn't even matter. I. For the first hour. And Coda's like a long track for the first hour. I am not able to complete a single lap without spinning out. And I'm spinning out in like all different fucking places.

[Zach Klippenstein]

So not the same corner, same whatever.

[Matt Farah]

No, and I'm just like spin out like. And my spin outs are like over steering on the exit into some irrecoverable slide that ends up in the wall. This car made like 370 naturally aspirated fucking horsepower. Like, so I'm just like. I keep spinning out and crashing.

[Zach Klippenstein]

And you're on slicks, I assume, like in the sim. Yeah, sticky tires. You're not overpowering them very easily in real life.

[Matt Farah]

But also the laps are long and every time you start, you crash, you start over every time you start on ice cold slicks. So you have to do either like a terrifyingly, like, not terrifying, like frustratingly slow lap to like warm up. And then it's just another like 10 minutes waste. Eventually we. He sort of set up like a little hot start hack. So if I crash, I could just like hit a button and like be going full throttle, like, you know, leading up to the front straight and actually just. Cause it just got too frustrating to do this again. But it was just driving me insane. Cause it was like, shit, that would never happen to me in a car. Like, I would just never get into any race car and just spin out every lap for 20 laps. Like, maybe I wouldn't. Maybe I'd be slow. Like, I'm not saying I'm amazing, like, I'm fucking real average. But like, that just wouldn't happen. Like, maybe I'd be 15 seconds off the pace and then 12 seconds off the pace and then nine seconds off the pace and eventually I'd settle at something that was better than embarrassing, you know?

[Zach Klippenstein]

And did Tato drive same car, Same sim, same everything.

[Matt Farah]

He's great at it, but he's great.

[Zach Klippenstein]

At the sim because someone asked, like, did you check? Like, are there settings?

[Matt Farah]

No, no, no. Yeah, it was. It wasn't settings. He was. He was very good at it. But like, it's his sim and he is.

Essentially. It's not like he can do it. He's good at racing driving. And he's also good at the video game racing driving. They're not exactly the same thing. They're related, but they're not exactly the same thing. And is he gonna be faster than me in a real car? Fuck yeah. Of course he is. Obviously he is. Is Tommy. Of course Tommy's gonna set a time that everyone will be like, uh, what? Like he'll set some kind of fucking record. Half asleep probably. And it's amazing to watch. But like just, just this, just the, not the, like. And let me, just let me jump ahead because after three hours.

Tato said. I said, what. What number are we looking for for a lap? He said, 235. I said, okay, fine. So at least that there's a goal. After three hours, I said, I'm not leaving here until I run three laps in a row that are in the 235s. Like, or something like that. Like I had three full. Like none of the spin outs. It's that that task took three hours. That's crazy.

And eventually I did a 234. But like, it was just. It was so fucking frustrating because, like, I mean, just spinning out and spinning out and spinning out and spinning out and like you don't feel when it's gonna go like it's a butterfly steering wheel. So if you can't catch, you know, a slide, it's just. It's one and gone.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Iracing the. I think I drove it like played it once or twice. And I was shocked at, you know, none of the sims. Like, I've only been on one or two motion sims, but I've played iracing Assetto, you know, forza. Like all those. I've played on solid seats.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klippenstein]

And iracing. I was shocked at how little quote feel there was before it let go. It felt like the tires were plastic and on ice. And I was like, what? Where did I go? Why am I going around in circles? It happened all the time in Assetto. The other ones. It's just the way that the tire modeling lets go more progressively. And I know like iracing is now this. I don't know. There's really. There's competitions you can win money in. And it's kind of like this serious simulator for people to play or the serious game.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klippenstein]

But I find it much harder to drive in that game than any of the other ones. Even if it's traction on. Off on all of them. Yeah, it's just way harder.

[Matt Farah]

But I was. And you know, I should have been like hey, give me. Let me get five laps with the fucking traction control on to at least get to a certain level, and then we can turn it off or something like that. And I didn't do that. I went full off the whole time, and maybe I shouldn't have, and, you know, whatever. I got there eventually, but it was just. It was way. If you gave me three hours in a real car in a racetrack, bro, I'm in the hunt. Like.

Any reasonable car, you give me that much time in a real racetrack, we're on pace. That's a ton of time. But this was. I don't want to say it was a waste of time because you learn. I learned where Tayto's breaking points were. I watched his line a bunch. And watching his line is helpful that you can take that to the real track. You can take. Okay, he's hitting the brakes at exactly this marker. Like, great fucking bank that. And that's a repeatable thing. And so, like, it is helpful. But it was just like, God damn it. Does this have to be this fucking frustrating? Like, I probably would have gotten all the benefit that I could have gotten from it just leaving the traction control on, you know, or some. Or something. It was just like, I can't believe how fucking frustrated I got. And, like, anyone can have a bad day driving. It's like any other sort of sport, but fuck.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Well, repeated effort with no success for that long is gonna bum anybody out. And you don't like sim racing or sim driving anyway, so I think you're coming into it, like, you know, not having the best time. But then if you're working at it and you're seeing these and you're not changing some things, but there's like, all sudden, you're spinning at this corner and then that corner. Like, what. What am I doing different? That would be really.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Ultimately, I found that.

I. The throttle, like, in this, there isn't, like, throttle feedback, you know, so much, but, like, the throttle was, like, way more, like, sensitive than I thought it really was. And you don't get that sense.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

You know, you don't get that when you're not sitting in the car, when.

[Zach Klippenstein]

You don't feel the load being thrown to the back.

[Matt Farah]

I need to feel those things. Like, I'm good at sims when it's like, a track I've driven a lot of or, you know, like, in. And I can take. I can take the track knowledge backwards to the sim better than I can, like, learn from the sim, you know?

[Zach Klippenstein]

I see what you mean.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Will the car have traction control?

[Matt Farah]

Don't know. I mean, I shouldn't, like, need traction control. And.

If I can drive a fucking 750 around Cota without traction control, I can certainly drive a 240 BMW. It was just. It wasn't that traction control or no traction control. It was just. It was the lack of feel in that type of driving was like, when I'm trying to, like, trying to push it to get a time, I was like, whoa, so frustrating.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah, definitely.

[Matt Farah]

And, like, in front of like, Tommy Kendall, I'm like, oh, my God. Like, I think he. I'm pretty sure he knows I'm not. Not this bad. But, like, I. I don't want to start off this weekend like this in front of these guys, you know? Pretty tough.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah. Yeah. That'd be a bummer. I get it. That'd be really hard.

[Matt Farah]

Eventually got there. But, like, whoa, the brutal three hours it was. My eyes hurt like, three hours in front of this. Like, barely. I don't think I stood up for 10 minutes in those three hours. Like, it was tough anyway.

[Zach Klippenstein]

How many stints are. Do you guys get each during the race? Is it just one each?

[Matt Farah]

And I want to say it's two because I think it's four drivers and it's an eight hour race. But it's. It obviously depends on, like, you know, what. What happens. But I think it's supposed to be.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Two a race plus practice day.

[Matt Farah]

So there's a practice day Thursday and then qualifying is Friday.

But Thursday is supposed to be like a fucking pissing rainstorm.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Oh, boy.

[Matt Farah]

And so, but it's supposed to be the only day of the whole weekend that it's raining. So I've heard they're limiting how many cars can be on track on the wet and during practice. And so there's like, this is like the text thread as of an hour ago was like, there's some kind of like, lottery to get into Thursday practice, but if Thursday practice is, like, fucked, then they're going to extend Friday qualifying into practice or something like that. So they did say everybody will get at least some seat time in the car before the race. So that's just, you know, 30 minutes in the car is enough.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah. Just to get used to how. Just to be like, even if the road's wet, to feel how the car, like, what are your sight lines and all that stuff.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And kota, like, is there, you know, how obtrusive is the drivers? Is the net the window net? Cause, like, Koda has A couple has two, three. One, two, three left handers that in a regular car is no problem. But in a drive, at least in the fucking sim, it was really hard to see the apexes through the driver's nets. So you need to like figure out other visual cues in some of those corners. But either way, like the real thing should be a pretty good time. That's what.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Dude, race car.

[Matt Farah]

Race car? Yeah, race car. Big fast track. You know, big high speed track which is pretty fucking cool.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Do you guys have to like practice driver change stuff or.

[Matt Farah]

I, I don't really. I mean, we may. Yeah, we may. I don't.

[Zach Klippenstein]

I guess you have a crew, right? There's like, like you pull in and drivers are just helping each other get in and out, probably with belts and stuff.

[Matt Farah]

And we may do fueling but they have like their mechanics and stuff. Like it's a. It's a pretty legit organization from what I gather.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Cool. Does your helmet have speakers and microphone and shit?

[Matt Farah]

No, I have the earbuds that have them. Yes, it does have. It has comms, the microphone thing built into it. And then I wear the earbuds. They're not like the over.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Ear ones. You, you want earbud ones in a race car?

[Zach Klippenstein]

Well, I have those earbud ones. I talked about it after lemons, but I think I want both now because like. Well, that car was so loud.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. This car probably not that loud. It'll be like, yeah, it'll probably be fine. But you know.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yes.

[Matt Farah]

There's worse things than a race car that's not that loud.

[Zach Klippenstein]

You totally agree.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, I totally agree.

[Zach Klippenstein]

First 10 minutes I was like, this is the best. And then the last two hours and the three days of tinnitus afterwards, I was like, maybe we put the inline six back in.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, right. So that'll be fun.

[Zach Klippenstein]

That's cool.

[Matt Farah]

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[Zach Klippenstein]

Oh, I was gonna save that for. Yeah, because I haven't done the homework on the ecompany yet.

[Matt Farah]

Fine.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Overall, you know, some of the best seats I've sat in.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, they make great seats. The best.

[Zach Klippenstein]

I think they're better than the car we drove to Zion. It's just not as firm. The shape is great.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, the shape is.

[Zach Klippenstein]

The foam is a little bit softer. But let's say that because I want to look up the competitors.

[Matt Farah]

Everyone loves a Volvo. The competitors are like Doug's car, the E450 Mercedes. Like the all road kind of. Is there still an A6?

[Zach Klippenstein]

All road, I think.

[Matt Farah]

Is that the only. I don't know. What Audi's all road lineup is, but. All right, we'll save it. We can talk more about the Rivian quad.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Oh yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Touched on with Doug. I feel like I only touched on it in a negative way. I didn't say very many like nice things about it, which is unfair to Rivian because it's like, it's really nice, it's expensive. I mean it's kind of.

I'm not sure who's gonna buy into this because.

You can't tell them apart. Right. And so you can get a dual motor Rivian that's still a huge amount of horsepower for half the money of this. This thing is now like 115, $120,000. They depreciate. They all have looked the same for a while. We're all sort of waiting for the R2 and the R3. Right. And so this I guess is the last hurrah of the R1 line. I mean they've been, they have been like steadily improving it. The body control on the suspension is so nice. It's really, really good body control. The way the height settings work, the way the, the damper settings are like really nice. Just beautiful riding car. You know, the build quality has been even ratcheted up from where it was before. This is like a really nicely made thing. The materials are nice and the, the fit and finish was really good. I thought the stereo sounded really good.

The seats were really comfortable, although they're not quite as adjustable as I'd like for a hundred thousand dollar car. It would be nice if they had a little more. So they're only like eight way or something. If they, they could do a little more there. But.

A lot to like, really a lot to like the short wheel. I wish it had a different slower steering ratio because when they shorten the wheelbase from the truck, it makes it drive like a car with a cut wheelbase. Which is a very specific feel that you usually only feel in like rally cars and stuff. It's weird to feel it in a big truck. It almost feels like the car has an overactive rear steer like the Mercedes these two. Except it doesn't have rear steer.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Whoa.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. So it's like a Ferrari 8:12 steering ratio in something with a shorter wheelbase.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Right. 296 wheelbase or something like that.

[Matt Farah]

And then tall. So it's like it does these motions that are odd that the truck doesn't do. And specifically when you're doing maneuvering at medium to higher speeds. Well.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Cause when we drove the R1T years ago in the Canyons. Both of us were like, this feels like an electric lifted gtr. The steering. I had no complaints about the speed of the Raptor. No it at all. It felt very natural.

[Matt Farah]

The whole thing is set up for the truck and then they leave it the same when they shorten the wheelbase. And that makes it drive a little strange.

You have to have a pretty finely tuned sense of steering to be able to go at drive stage. Doesn't make us special. But if you've driven a whole lot of stuff, you know what happens when you change a thing and that's what happens.

[Zach Klippenstein]

And if someone hasn't driven as many things as us, but if they got out of like, like their ice, Mercedes SUV or BMW, if they got out of another comparably sized suv, would the steering feel too quick? Is it like that Ferrari steering from 10 years ago?

[Matt Farah]

It is. It's like sports cars compared to other sports cars.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

This is that exact thing in a three row SUV which is with 1000 horsepower. So it's like twitchy, twitchy, twitchy handling and a huge amount of horsepower. It is uncomfortable to launch this car and this one had the knobbies on it. So it'll just spin all four wheels. It's nuts. The power is nuts. I hit full throttle exactly two times and determined that that was way too much. But it does have this rad tuner thing now which allows you to.

Really like dial it in. If you are the kind of person that likes to dial it in. It has a bunch of standard settings and then if you go to the next slide, there's photos on my Instagram. You can change like things like the, the level of stability control, the amount of wheel slip you'll get.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Wow.

[Matt Farah]

You can change how much brake assist and steering assist and the ride height and the regen.

[Zach Klippenstein]

They've Hyundai it. Yeah, they've entuned it.

[Matt Farah]

But it's. But it's just one screen. That's so it's all you. It's all on one screen. It's easy to find.

[Zach Klippenstein]

So are there any other presets too? If you just like I want sport mode. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Matt Farah]

There's like comfort, sport and off road and it has presets and you can go back to, you know, return to factory settings because you will almost certainly make it worse by, by messing with it. I. The only ones I really.

I liked to turn up the damping a little bit above their setting in comfort. So the suspension was like somewhere between comfort and sport. For the damping. It was like kind of a nice place to drive when cruising on the highway. So I like to mess with that one. The wheel slip. Some of them, the settings really make more sense when you're off road, such as wheel slip. Unless you want to do burnouts, which it will spin all four wheels if you do a launch, which is wild stuff.

I don't know what that creature is. There's a badge on the back with a creature.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Is it Teen Wolf?

[Matt Farah]

Oh, it might be Teen Wolf. It could be Teen. It looks like somewhere between like a Yogi Bear that's been through a rave and is that Teen Wolf?

[Zach Klippenstein]

Well, it looks like Chewbacca, but the vest and the shorts and the headband say Teen Wolf.

[Matt Farah]

It's. Yeah, it's some kind of hairy monster in a Marty McFly vest.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Huh. I looked up Rivian Teen Wolf. I mean obviously they wouldn't buy the.

[Matt Farah]

Ip, but I'm not sure what the logo means, but it's cute. I mean I like a cartoon.

The. Let's see, is there anything else about it that I, I.

I drove it in the rain a lot. It was really good in the rain. I mean it, that's a, that's a, that's an excellent wet weather vehicle. The laser headlights, the automatic wipers, all of those expert, expert level awesome.

[Zach Klippenstein]

The lights turn with you.

[Matt Farah]

Not only do they turn, they're the European laser ones so they black out the pixels so they're not blinding oncoming cars. That's fabulous. I think their nav system works great. Even though their SiriusXM is the Sirius app. It's not actual satellite. I did think it worked well.

The cameras are great. The front and rear cameras like Hannah when we drove it and she was like mind blown. Cause Taycan's camera sucks horribly. She was so blown away with, with the Rivian's backup camera.

[Zach Klippenstein]

That stuff matters. Like the Volvo's cameras look old. They look like the ones from like six years ago. Compared to Sarah's RAV4, which is a one year old car, it's much clearer. The overhead shot is much clearer. And then Rivian. Another thing you notice is newer ones will have better contrast. A brighter picture at night or in the daytime, it's just clearer.

[Matt Farah]

And maybe I think also Rivian's screen is nicer. So it's the camera and the screen. But Porsche, I think one wonders, and I legitimately, I legitimately don't know the answer to this and I make absolutely no accusations of anything but one wonders if Porsche is using GM with the PDR camera. It's still 1080. And it's like, well, why is it 1080? It's like because we want it to work in Antarctica in 10 years. And so one wonders if Rivian doesn't have those requirements and therefore uses a certain type of hardware, whatever that Porsche isn't willing to use or if Porsche is really just that far behind, you know. So I don't know. It would be fun to find the answer to that.

I would genuinely though when I don't need a three row suv. But if I did, this would be. Not the fucking. Not the thousand horsepower one. But these are. It's. It's a nice thing. It's just the steering is. I harp on it a lot but I. You could get used to it it after a while.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Did. Did this ride. We rode in your friend's car down San Diego and I just remember, you know, the ride of the longer wheelbase T is much better.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klippenstein]

If you sit in the back seat of these of the one down in San Diego, it's like. It's a little sporty.

[Matt Farah]

You know. I didn't. I didn't sit in the back seat of this one while someone else drove. Maybe I should have but I did. I was surprised in the back seat of Brad's car that it was notably worse than being in the front seat.

[Zach Klippenstein]

It's in sport mode in the back. Basically.

[Matt Farah]

It was driver optimized the whole thing. Brad also had the one on the big rims and this one has the adventure knobbies.

[Zach Klippenstein]

It doesn't help.

[Matt Farah]

So these are. I think these wheels are one inch smaller than those street wheels.

[Zach Klippenstein]

It's also an LA complaint.

[Matt Farah]

Also Brad's was recalled for suspension related issues. So.

[Zach Klippenstein]

That's true.

[Matt Farah]

Could have been something not recalled. Excuse me, Lemont.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They couldn't get the alignment in spec, I believe. Right.

[Matt Farah]

Unalignable.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Unalignable, yeah. No matter how many crystals, whatever chakras could not get aligned.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. But I presume the R2, they're not going to start with the pickup truck and then shorten the wheelbase. So it should steer normally. But a five row version of this exact car would be not a five row. Excuse me. A five passenger version of this car. Scaled down appropriately. Fuck. That's gonna be great.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah, that's gonna really cool. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

So anyway, that's the Rivian quad. Nobody needs a thousand horsepower like in a thing like this. That's crazy. Why are you gonna give a soccer mom 1000 horsepower in a fucking 6500 pound truck? That's like Just fucking stop. That's crazy.

[Zach Klippenstein]

I mean, I think it's marketing probably more towards, you know, men that are looking at cybertruck and other ones, and they just have to say it has this huge number because that brings us stupid boys to the yard.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klippenstein]

But when you drive it around, you don't need it. It's a waste. I do like that. These are at least tend to be a lot slipperier than like the Hummer. So they both have tons of horsepower, but these are a lot more efficient.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Like, what's the range on this? Do you know?

[Matt Farah]

A lot. It's like 300. And I have no reason to doubt that. I only have. I only had to top this thing off once for a week, and that was only by a little bit. It's a big battery, but 374 or.

[Zach Klippenstein]

400 and it's a lot. Yeah, it's like 400 miles if you drive it in conserve mode.

[Matt Farah]

I did not. Yeah. And actually, conserve mode, that's the. I mean, that's the funny thing about this is I would. You could drive this car in conserve mode, 100% of the time it's not. And now they've fixed it so they used to. Back in the. When we did the T back in the day, when you put it in conserve mode, it lowered it all the way so it was like sitting on the bump stops. And you didn't want to. I want the low power for driving in the city, but I need some suspension, please. So in these now, you can do that. You can put the suspension anywhere you want in conserve mode. Which is like. You would just drive in that mode all the time.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah, you just e Com mod.

[Matt Farah]

It's like 600 horsepower in conserve mode. Like, what are we. What are we doing? I mean, I can't believe I'm the one saying this, but, like, you have to understand, it doesn't have the brakes for that. Like, it doesn't have the tires for that. Like a thousand horsepower on like all season. Like, these are like. They're not even all season.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Those are kind of off roady.

[Matt Farah]

They're like off road.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Like, with a fucking sharp ass.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Steering rack that weighs 6,000, 7,000 pounds. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Like, what are we doing? Haven't you seen the video of this thing blasting a K rail? Everybody's seen that video. Like. Like, just because this is like all this fucking bullshit now. Just because you can doesn't mean you fucking should.

[Zach Klippenstein]

But I think. I think to that point, like, they. Just because they can build it, they don't have to. But most people that buy these will never floor it. They might do it once and scare themselves. And then just because they can't build, they don't have to and they won't. Yeah, they're just gonna drive around and they'll say it and they'll be excited. They'll say it has this. It's like people that buy AMGs just to sit in traffic and idle around because they like the seats. And they've got 700 and 800 and 600 horsepower, and all they do is glub, glub to the club.

[Matt Farah]

That's a fun phrase, isn't it?

Yeah. No, you're. I mean, you're right. And. And. And quad motor off road is really nice. Like, that is like. It's amazing wheel control, what you can do. Going up a thing with four. It's crazy how good that is. How much. How much it, like, makes something like a Land Cruiser feel like a clunky piece of shit. No disrespect to the Land Cruiser. It does what it does for its own reasons, but, like, these things are so nice off Road. Imagine 400 miles. I bet we could do like a BDR in one.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Oh, sure. I bet you could. If you find the charging, you know.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Every other town.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Or.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Jenny might be tough. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Putt, putt.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Well, some of those towns we went through in Wyken, Washington, and this. That was 15 years ago. I guess that's not really a fair. I was gonna say there's no level two charging in a town of 300.

[Matt Farah]

You know, who would know? This is Rivian.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

If I was like, hey, I want to drive across, you know, a state we could. We could definitely do it. Could be fun.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Electric off roading is so nice.

[Zach Klippenstein]

It's very. That's the way to do it.

[Matt Farah]

It's.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

If you've never done it, people, I can't tell you how nice it is. It's like. It's like walking without using your feet.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

It's like. It's. It's. It's so quiet. You just have that. You have the windows down. You don't hear any strain from the car. There's no. There's no, like, jerkiness. You just go. It's just forward motion.

[Zach Klippenstein]

You don't have to rev and slip the clutch or anything or feel it or feel the torque converter lock up. I think, mark my words, there will be a time where an electric vehicle will win King of Hammers and it'll probably have to Require Hot swap technology.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klippenstein]

But if they can get.

[Matt Farah]

Someone does it now.

[Zach Klippenstein]

No, they run them now.

[Matt Farah]

They run them now.

[Zach Klippenstein]

But it's an EV class.

[Matt Farah]

Oh yeah.

[Zach Klippenstein]

And I think if someone does hot Swap tech and they have like four wheel controllers that are really, really good, I think you put all that together and they'll probably win.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. It's just so nice to do. To do it off road. You just, it's. You're so like peaceful.

[Zach Klippenstein]

It is, yeah. Without you know, revving of whatever engine. But like you just take all that out of it.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, it's great. Can't wait for the R2 and the R3. That's what I'm. That's what I'm really thinking about. That's probably not what they wanted me to say by giving me an R1 for a week, but.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Well. But I think their fit and finish is really nice.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klippenstein]

No, every Rivian I've gotten into from the beginning I went, whoa. Like first effort. This is built well, feels well. Nice choices. Great design on the inside. Looks really good and I think blends the luxury and kind of outdoorsy ness perfectly.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, it does do a good job of that.

I don't know how many of them actually spend much time off road. I certainly see them running around LA a lot, of course, which is exactly what I would use it for 90% of the time.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Did you see this?

[Matt Farah]

Oh shit. Really?

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

They kicked out the guy at Jaguar who designed the new Jaguar concept.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

I guess it hasn't gone very well, huh? That's too bad. Sorry for him.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Boss. Jerry, I guess. Jerry McGovern.

[Matt Farah]

Jerry McGovern.

[Zach Klippenstein]

But he's been in charge of Land rover design since 06 and JLR as a whole since 2020.

[Matt Farah]

I mean, I gotta say, Land Rover design since 06 has turned out some pretty decent looking vehicles.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Their entire design aesthetic between that year and now is pretty. Pretty good.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah. So I guess one week ago a former Tata executive took over as JLR CEO and he went in and was like out of here and.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, okay. He probably. Maybe he just hates this thing.

[Zach Klippenstein]

He might just hate the. Was it double zero design? Yeah, yeah. Concept.

[Matt Farah]

I mean, I think there's aspects of that design of that thing that are really cool. That new Jaguar, I think the proportions.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Are cool and if they soften the whole thing, I mean it's a concept car. Right. It's gonna look insane.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klippenstein]

What, what comes out of that would probably just look pretty cool and normal. But the launch, I don't know. We are Everyone on the commentariat online are very fickle and reactive bunch. And a lot of people were like, you know, look at this H Vac rear end on this thing and stuff like that. Well, that's bad.

[Matt Farah]

No, the motel rear end is bad. The motel H vac.

[Zach Klippenstein]

It was a weird. It seemed like a lazy choice for a clay car. But if he had a hand in this, the new Defender, that thing looks great.

[Matt Farah]

Too bad for him.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yep.

[Matt Farah]

Our. You know, our other friend whose name I can't say yet, but he worked at that same company who just left recently. Oh, I just found out what he's doing. Doing which is starting his own car company.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Really?

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. To make. Make a car. That is the kind of car that. That he has been talking about making for a while. So we'll have to. I got a press release, but I don't know if it was an NDA or anything like that. Okay, well, we're definitely gonna get him on the show to talk about it, but he. It looks very promising, but I don't want to. I don't want to ruffle any feathers yet. So we have to kick that one next week.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Cool.

[Matt Farah]

But yeah, yeah, there's a thing there that's happening.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Rad.

[Matt Farah]

It's kind of exciting.

[Zach Klippenstein]

He's a fun person. If he is who I think he is.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. The man likes a good time.

Before we get to the patrons. And there's a lot from you guys today. Want to plug. We've just announced at Road and track the next event.

[e-mail] the next event in 2026. We've just announced. And I have now blanked on the name of it. They only told me the name today. Scroll down. Abe, we got. Oh, is it not up? It's supposed to go up.

Well, I'm just gonna fucking. I'm just gonna tell you. It's gonna be the Pacific Northwest. It's going to be June 10th to 13th. It's going to be.

[Zach Klippenstein]

A.

[Matt Farah]

A racetrack, a very cool racetrack, as well as a day at Dirtfish. It's going to be Mount Rainier, Olympic Park. All those beautiful roads, the Mount Mariner roads. You know, I consulted with to develop this Route 1 Jason Fenske.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Oh, right. He lives up there.

[Matt Farah]

The expert in the area. Gave some expert advice for this particular route. Haven't scouted it yet, but June in the Pacific Northwest. We've wanted to do this one for a really long time. Time I've been pushing for Pacific Northwest. It's one of my favorite Places to drive. It's so beautiful. The tracks are really cool up there. Dirtfish is awesome. There's some really, really cool hotels we're gonna hit.

And then, of course, April 2026 is gonna be Arizona, Nevada. It's gonna be the desert. What's it called? What have we called it? Desert 600 Desert. What's it called? Desert Run 600. It's going to be Vegas. Valley of Fire, Las Vegas Motorsports Park, Zion National Park. That beautiful road up and out.

All the way to Sedona and then ending in Scottsdale. That one's going to be super, super fun. You can sign [e-mail] Awesome. I am leading both. So when you sign up, you're going to be hanging out with me for a whole week to. You can pay to hang out with me. I don't actually see that money. You can pay someone else, a third party to hang out with me. This is like a romance scam. You watch Coffeezilla this week? He debunked some crazy romance scam. But it was basically a scammer posing as this agency that was going to set up fans with meeting their celebrities. They were trying to get fans of these soap opera actors to pay into some subscription plan wherein they would get to, like, have a phone call or, like, a chat or whatever with their, like, actors. And this poor lady gave a lot of money. Yeah, it's shady, but, like, this isn't that you give. It's like that, but. But I'll really be there.

[Zach Klippenstein]

You'll be there. You're not AI.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, and yeah, I'm not AI. And you're giving. And you're giving the money to Hearst. You're not.

[Zach Klippenstein]

It's more like if you buy a VIP pass to, like, Mercedes F1. Brad Pitt's there and he doesn't get the money. Yeah, yeah, you can stand next to him and ask him annoying questions.

[Matt Farah]

Exactly. It's exactly that. But also, the driving roads are gonna be really beautiful and tracks are gonna be fun. So desert in April, Pacific Northwest in June, and there will be two more after that in 2026 that we have not announced yet because they're not finalized. So let's go to the [e-mail] thesmokingtirepodcast it's where you get the show live. It's where you get the show early. It's where you can get the show without ads. It's where you can get extra show. And it's where you can get exclusive access to Merch collabs and all kinds of other.

[Zach Klippenstein]

And it's the best way to support. To support the show.

[Matt Farah]

Most importantly, that. Better than listening to all the ads or doing YouTube Premium or doing any of those things. Not to say that you shouldn't listen to our wonderful advertisers. You shouldn't.

Oh, do you? Well, I guess you probably want to talk about how the trap track. You're going to track day tomorrow. Tomorrow at Streets of Willow.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yes.

[Matt Farah]

But I guess that you should probably.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Talk about it after. Once it's.

[Matt Farah]

Once it's over.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah. And then I'll tell you my funny BMW Morning Light story later.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, okay.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, fine.

[Matt Farah]

Later.

[Zach Klippenstein]

That's. Later. I was gonna say I took my first Waymo yesterday and asked you a question about it because you have more experience.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klippenstein]

So my Waymo, to dinner last night, drove great. Aggressive at times that surprised me, very meek at other times that also surprised me. But the one question I had is a number of times it would be heading north on a really big empty suburban road. We're heading north towards Beverly Hills. And it would turn. It turned right and then left. And I went, oh, maybe there's traffic up ahead. I didn't see something was going on. But the next time it did it, I started paying attention. And so it's heading up.

[Matt Farah]

So it was zigzagging.

[Zach Klippenstein]

It was zigzagging through Beverly Hills, through kind of near like the Fox. The Fox lot area. And I just went, okay, we're not gaining time. We're not avoiding.

[Matt Farah]

My Waymo took basically the same route.

[Zach Klippenstein]

It was. It was a good route. There was very little traffic, but I was just confused why it was deviating. Do you know, have any insights?

[Matt Farah]

Okay, so you know how, like, Waze used to do that?

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yes.

[Matt Farah]

Right. And.

So neighbors complaints.

And they bitched and bitched and bitched to both Google and Waze and to city governments saying that our neighborhood is now the shortcut around this traffic every day, thanks to your shit. And they.

Basically redlined, for lack of a better word, blacklisted, whatever, Blackout certain neighborhoods. So Waze won't do that anymore. Waze will take you on major arterial roads for all but the worst traffic incidents. Right. Got it.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Okay.

[Matt Farah]

Not so much Waymo.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Not yet.

[Matt Farah]

Because there's just not enough of them for people to complain. Right. And they're all driving mad. They're driving by the fucking book. They're not mobbing angrily. So Waymos will still do the mad avoidance through residential shit that ways won't have you doing anymore?

[Zach Klippenstein]

Okay.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klippenstein]

It seemed like it was adding steps, but someone else, I posted on Instagram and they said, oh, maybe it's like still mapping streets. So it's not okay.

[Matt Farah]

I think, I think it just. I think it has the good maps.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Got it.

[Matt Farah]

I think they want you. They want to find. They want you to find reasons to go. Oh, the Waymo, it knows. It really knows better. Better than my gps, better than an Uber driver. This Waymo knows the better way to get there. Like, they want you to know that shit. I took. And I, you know, I took Awaymo dinner also, and I took Sean, my trainer, who had never been in one. It was actually pretty funny. My natural instinct when I get in a Waymo is to get in the back. What seat did you get in?

[Zach Klippenstein]

First time I got in, I got in the back seat on the right. And strangely, the front passenger seat was shoved way back.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Which I thought was weird because every Uber or Lyft, you get into the front passenger seat is often move forward because people get in from the curb. This was the opposite. So that was strange. And then the second, on the way home, I sat in the front seat so I could lean it back because my back was bothering me after the bench we sat in.

[Matt Farah]

I think you should have the controls in the back seat to move the front seat forward.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah, yeah, they need that.

[Matt Farah]

You don't have that. But yeah. So funny thing is, my instinct was to get in the back seat. Sean, right away, front seat.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Interesting.

[Matt Farah]

He was. He went right to it.

[Zach Klippenstein]

No hesitation, because he wanted to watch how it works.

[Matt Farah]

I guess that's where he went. That's where he went. He. Yeah, he was like most people. Shocking. Like, the amount of time it took him to get to be totally comfortable without a driver being there was very short.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah. I watched the radar. I like. They have the radar display. I like that shows you what it sees, and it sees a lot. And I was particularly impressed by its ability to see people at long distance in the dark. Yeah, like, well, that's lidar hundreds of feet, but it's people there. And on the way back, I watched them movie. I treat it like a plane. I. I watched this rock climbing movie and I was like, all right, what else am I going to do? I've seen these streets before, so, yeah, Spotify. Pretty wild stuff. So anyway. But a problem I realized is that when I got into the second car on the way home, someone had left their coffee cup there. There's no one to clean that out until they go back to their base.

[Matt Farah]

Didn't I tell you when I got to the restaurant that when I. I didn't notice it the whole time. Cuz I had gotten in back left because the driver's seat was pretty far forward. So I got in back left, Sean was front right and I got out curbside so I crawled across because it was a fairly busy road, so I crawled across and as I crawled across I kicked a beer can on the floor and I was like, oh, it.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Feels weird when you're like oh, someone probably just forgot their coffee cup. I think they forgot it because it was in the cup holder. The beer can? No, discarded.

[Matt Farah]

The beer can was discarded.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

This was someone's trash can. And that's just. That's gonna happen.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. So anyway, questions from the people. Murder, death, kill em all said. My dad and I each picked up a Boxster S986 for 10K. Can you think of any car that delivers a better experience on twisty roads for less? No. While it's working, that's probably about as good as it gets. Yeah, there's an argument for like, I mean for less. There's an argument for like a Toyota Mr.2.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Maybe, maybe, but maybe that's pretty good bargain.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, it's a great bargain as long as it works, right. The problem is with a cheap Boxster, almost anything can total it. It's the most totalable car. Needs an oil change. Sorry. Sorry son.

[Zach Klippenstein]

That's when I read this. The only benefit of like Miata is, you know, it's just gonna work and repairs will be cheap and easy.

[Matt Farah]

Sure. But I mean I think you have come out ahead. Let's just say Matatat.

[Zach Klippenstein]

That's funny.

[Matt Farah]

Matatat says you often talk about how the 4 GT silver, no stripe is a more valuable spec. Any other examples of other options that have outsized effect on value? Sure.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Choosing a manual in a Ferrari.

[Matt Farah]

Ferrari manual. Ferrari manuals were cheaper. The Ferrari manuals were cheaper when they were new. That's a great one.

Outsized effect on value.

Had you gotten any Lamborghini in the 1990s painted a non standard color, had you spent whatever it cost, what would have been a lot then? 25 grand to paint it? Just any, any different color would probably return 200 grand today. Wow.

But I mean there's no, there's no better one than manuals with Ferraris. I mean that's just. That's the most obvious one.

Has any.

Huh. Well, a lot of times the option is connected to rarity, so that's so like you could say the Ferrari Super America that had the different roof mechanism and they only made or whatever the Ferrari, the 550 Barchetta. You know, that's a. Same car but different roof designs kind of thing. I would say.

Changing the roof design. An Aston Martin Zagato shooting brake anytime there's a shooting brake, anytime there's a speedster. You know, if you change the roof.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Shape of a car, which also leads to rarity.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're gonna have. You're gonna have a. Probably an outsized effect down the road. Yeah, that's a good question, though. Listen. And sometimes watch. You've talked a lot about how certain cars aren't worth their value in terms of driving experience. What are some cars whose driving experience is higher than their value? Oh, that's gonna be pretty easy. Okay. I would say.

I would say. Okay, hang on.

Driving experience. I shouldn't.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Corvette Z06. I think the C8. Corvette Z06.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, yeah.

[Zach Klippenstein]

It's a great place to start.

[Matt Farah]

Great place to start. Absolutely. 100%. How about I will say a.

Ferrari 348 GTS or GTB, which is 94 most of the way to a 355, in fact, in some ways is better than a 355 for about 50% less money than a 355.

[Zach Klippenstein]

I know you. I know you don't like them, but I will say kit Cobras and some other replicas because the price of a real one you can get real fucking close with with a kit.

[Matt Farah]

I would say that about a really good GT40 replica. Sure.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

I personally like the like the GT40s better than the Cobras, mainly because. For like ergonomic reasons.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah. And they also look awesome.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, they look great.

[Zach Klippenstein]

You don't have to sell me on that.

[Matt Farah]

Driving experience. Higher than their value. I think.

A Lancia, they're probably expensive. Now. How about like a non numbers matching Porsche 356. That's worth like 60 grand, but if the numbers matched, it would be worth 150 grand. Like that, that kind of thing. Non numbers matching, you know, muscle cars.

[Zach Klippenstein]

996S for the most part, like, they just don't command the same price for pretty much very similar performance to the 997s.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. It's a pretty good one. How about a Subaru RST R? Pick one up for like 25 grand. But that's a rowdy fucking experience.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Re education through working on shitboxes. Wow. A rise against reference in the comments. A plus for the day. I will take all lefty punk music, please. Aside from good professional photos, what are some of the best things one can do for a high mileage vehicle to bring as much value as possible in a sale? I would say transparency. I mean, if you do the things that people would pay for a PPI to do. If you do, like, compression test results, tire paint meter readings, tire tread depth readings. I mean, just like a huge amount of information that show really good underbody photos that show if the underside of the car is really clean.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Basically, if you address people's concerns, you know, with a higher mileage car, there's maintenance you can do to keep it going for a long time. Compression is a great one because someone's gonna. A smart buyer would go, okay, they told me that the plugs have been changed and the water thermostat's good and stuff, but how's the compression? Am I gonna have to deal with that or is there any sort of, like, oiling problem? Also, it's a classic, but if you clean it really well and take good pictures. Cause again, it's about showing people here's exactly what it looks like in its best light, clearly. And also here's how good it can look. But you're not trying to get away with something. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

Tim A says 24 hours later. Can we have a temperature check on manual swapping a Ferrari 599 as an NSX replacement?

[Zach Klippenstein]

Have you started shopping?

[Matt Farah]

The point is to go minus one. I have to go minus one for a while and sit on the money and not do anything.

[Zach Klippenstein]

We'll check back in.

[Matt Farah]

Like, we can check back in a few months, but. Months. But all. Yeah, but also, it sounds awesome. Wait, go back up.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Oh, my bad.

[Matt Farah]

I have Rage against the Mach E. I have a manual conversion612 scalietti. It's actually kind of awesome, but I want to sell it to downsize the collection, which is at 8.612values are really low, though. Do you see their values ever going up?

Man, they're. They're not.

[Zach Klippenstein]

They look weird.

[Matt Farah]

They're not the prettiest Ferraris. They look a little strange to me.

[Zach Klippenstein]

And I think so many Ferraris have risen in value lately, along with most other cars. And we softened a little bit in the last year. But if they didn't move much, then they remain a bargain option for someone who wants a front engine V12.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, but.

[Zach Klippenstein]

But I don't know what would cause them to rise unless we can wait a much longer time. So if this person. I don't think they're willing to wait five years.

[Matt Farah]

I think it's more like 20 years.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

It's until it's a classic. Classic.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Until people go, you know what? And also.

[Matt Farah]

No, that was actually.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah. And that also requires all the other ones to be prohibitively expensive.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Which just happened to the Ferrari 400i. People my age all of a sudden are deciding that the 400i is actually good. I think it's because Nicholas Cage drove.

[Zach Klippenstein]

It in Leaving and.

[Matt Farah]

No, in. What's that great movie he was in a couple years ago?

[Zach Klippenstein]

The Rock.

[Matt Farah]

The Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Oh, I did not see that.

[Matt Farah]

You didn't?

[Zach Klippenstein]

It was great.

[Matt Farah]

I mean, I happen to think the Ferrari 400 is a pretty nice looking car in the right color at the right ride height. Height.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah, I'd have to. I'd have to see it. I'd have to see it in person. Because from here the front all I think is like early 90s accord, late 80s accord. And that's manufacturing at the time. But you know, if people are starting.

[Matt Farah]

These, it has the. Some angles that are much better than others. I think the rear three quarter is pretty kickass.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Proportions. Great.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, yeah. And that one's, that one's at the right. Nice ride height there too. I don't think that that last photo you looked at wasn't helped. It was under acceleration and the nose was high. It looked a little weird.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Oh, I wasn't looking at that at all. I was just looking at the shape of the front. To me, this just. It reminds me of too many, I think economy cars.

[Matt Farah]

They look really good in black. In black. Just Google a picture of a black Ferrari 400i. And it is much, much better. I love that light blue color in Ferraris. But the. But in black. Look at that third. Look at the. Yeah, just pick a good one. Yeah, that one looks nice.

I think black. Black really does serve this shape very nicely.

[Zach Klippenstein]

I agree with you this.

[Matt Farah]

That one looks like it might have been crashed.

[Zach Klippenstein]

It does. Right? That sums up there.

[Matt Farah]

I think we zoomed in on the wrong car. I think this one might have been crashed.

[Zach Klippenstein]

It's not. It's unrestored, Matt. Yeah, this is.

[Matt Farah]

But the rear, the rear three quarter, that's. That's the angle. I love the rear three quarter.

[Zach Klippenstein]

These quad pipes angled up. Forget about it.

[Matt Farah]

It's great.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

And if that thing, if this car was dropped like a half inch, the one we had down at the South Bay store for a minute. Remember that one? Do you see it? It was just a little bit lower than this. It was awesome looking. I drove it once, and it was terrible.

[Zach Klippenstein]

What are people paying for these now?

[Matt Farah]

A shitter is probably like 60 grand, and a really good one might be 140 or 150 restored.

[Zach Klippenstein]

All right.

[Matt Farah]

I would not say this is a $140,000 driving experience at all. I drove it. It was fine. It's not what I would want to drive, but I do think it looks cool. Just as an example of something, back.

[Zach Klippenstein]

To the question the 612 could get.

[Matt Farah]

For 20 years, those were like, shitters. And now some people of style and taste like they're becoming ironically cool. Right, right. And they have to go through ironic cool to get to actual cool. So you got to hang on for it.

[Zach Klippenstein]

I think the 612, you know, 456s right now, are having a little bit of their day, but they're still pretty cheap. I think Manish Pandey, director of Senna, he bought one, like, a year ago and loves it. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Well, underneath it's a five fifty.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Right. So you can get this cool experience. But I think if you were looking to consolidate, I would just do it now.

[Matt Farah]

What do you mean?

[Zach Klippenstein]

Sorry. The guy with the 600. I would sell it now because I think you have to wait a long time.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. And I think you'll. I mean, if you market it well and get good photos and, you know, I think it would be a fun thing for somebody who wants to get that kind of car.

Okay. The Stig's Laotian cousin drove the Prelude, the new Prelude, and at no markup, didn't find it good enough to trade in the GR Corolla.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah. This person had put a deposit on it, and they were checking back because we talked about it last week, and so they think they pulled their deposit.

[Matt Farah]

Wait, hang on.

Oh.

Two clutches. One shift now does the Warhead's trick. Thanks. About panic attacks, you know. You know, I haven't had any panic attacks since I eliminated most of the caffeine and the sativa weed. So it seems like we may have solved that problem.

[Zach Klippenstein]

I think so.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Yeah. Two clutches. One shift says best friend wants a 2008 G55 in the mid-30s, trying to warn him about what he might be getting into. I mean, these cars are so expensive to maintain. Our friend Sarah was like, oh, yeah, she bought one that looked so cool, we featured it in the video. And, man, was she on fucking pins and needles every second driving this thing. Because the most expensive things would go wrong.

[Zach Klippenstein]

And hers wasn't a fancy one. It looked rad, it was tan, but it was a little scruffy in places. But that doesn't mean it will be cheap to repair.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, you know, there's so many parts on G wagons that are only on G wagons.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

And do they cost a fucking fortune to run? There's a reason these things are pretty cheap.

[Zach Klippenstein]

But, you know, our friend Arman got one and so far I think it's been good. Yeah, it gets terrible. It's their city car.

[Matt Farah]

It's also that terrible gas mileage, fuel efficient.

[Zach Klippenstein]

But, yeah, you know, like anything. If the car used to cost 120 to buy, it'll cost proportionately. Correct to repair.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. And this. This more so than most, you know, a cheap G wagon is not a, you know, reliable thing, I'm sorry to say. Crouching Sunbeam Tiger Hidden Wagon. Wow, there's like two happening at once there. Are either of you familiar with Mischief from the early 2000s?

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yes, I am very familiar with Tecademics, dude. Mischief 3000.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I met that guy a few times back in the day. Yeah, he was around. He was like. He was like. He was around New York. Feretti knew him.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Didn't one of the guys turn into like a tuner out here also?

[Matt Farah]

I don't remember.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Sorry. Okay.

[Matt Farah]

No, I don't know. I just. I don't remember. Maybe I don't know what happened to them. Yeah, I have no idea. But Ferretti was friends with one of them because they were selling DVDs. Feretti was selling DVDs. They were like in the fucking dirtbag DVD club. Ferretti wore better clothes, but he was. When he was younger, he was a proper dirtbag.

Yeah. If anyone knows Dustin, I mean, that.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Video got me stoked about E36s modifying stuff. S4 wagons. When the wheel came off, I think it was the S4 in the video, the wheel comes off and rolls at like 120 miles an hour. And being a general dirtbag. And it was a little bit of like. Like a car skate video, actually, before Jim Khana. Because it was like, here's these people with a quote, cheap car, and they're on this rally with people that are.

[Matt Farah]

In.

[Zach Klippenstein]

There doing burnouts and running with them and stuff. So I was into it.

[Matt Farah]

I think Alex Roy might have known Dustin. Oh, sure, yeah.

Yeah, definitely. That would be a fun podcast guest, actually.

Josh J. Says, thoughts on the Pontiac GTOS, that early 2000s one on paper, a rear wheel drive six speed nav eight should be sought after these days, but it never comes up. Was it dynamically unimpressive? No, actually they were pretty nice cars. I thought it was silly. They were called GTOs because they, man, I mean if Pontiac had done what Ford and Chevy did, if they had done a GTO that looked like a muscle, I think it would have been enormously successful. I really do. I think, I think they could have called that the fucking Pontiac Commodore. It's a Holden, which is fine, they could have fucking leaned into that. But calling it a GTO was pretty lame.

[Zach Klippenstein]

The styling was pretty soft, the interior was nice.

[Matt Farah]

It was a better built muscle car than their own shit. For most of that time when Pontiac was doing the F body and GM was finishing out the Camaro SS and these guys and Pontiac had the gto, it was a much better made car.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Their timing. So yeah, GTO came out. The new One came out in 06. Fifth gen Mustang was 05.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, but the Camaro didn't come out until 2010. They had, they had it.

[Zach Klippenstein]

No, no. But I was wondering, did Ford make the bet on retro design first and win? And then Pontiac realized, oh, we fucked up.

[Matt Farah]

No, first we had the PT Cruise and the Prowler.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

So that goes. The Prowler was 90, the concept car was 95. The production car was 97. You then had PT Cruiser, you then had HHR and then you had the Chevy, the SS, the pickup truck thing. Retro was full fucking going. So they were all ahead. Ford was. The Mustang was like what kind of. It was a response really to that.

[Zach Klippenstein]

You know, it's funny then I think that GM went, went too far in my opinion with HHR. It was a little bit like cartoonish bubbly 1930s 40s suburban wagon and it was like cool. Some people liked it, but didn't. It didn't catch fire. The way the Mustang was literally just copying.

[Matt Farah]

How close can we copy the PT Cruiser? Sure.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Which I also.

[Matt Farah]

So many people bought those things. Yeah, we make fun of them. So many people bought those things.

[Zach Klippenstein]

That's true. I don't know, maybe Ford just got it. They just threaded the needle.

[Matt Farah]

It was, I mean they caught a bit of a Volkswagen Beetle boomer. Nostalgia. That's basically what that was.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah, that's true.

[Matt Farah]

And it was. And the PT Cruiser was an economy car that was a little more upright, like halfway to being like a crossover, you know what I mean?

[Zach Klippenstein]

They sold over a million of those things.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, they sold so many goddamn PT Cruisers.

[Zach Klippenstein]

My ex girlfriend had sold a Crazy.

[Matt Farah]

Number of PT Cruisers.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Oh, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They messed up the gto. Could have been the thing. Do they? I've never driven one. Do they drive? Well, I've seen them at racetracks.

[Matt Farah]

You ever drive a Neon?

[Zach Klippenstein]

No.

[Matt Farah]

They drive exactly like a Neon. Huh.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Really? Yeah, but with the rear wheel drive and the big V8.

[Matt Farah]

A PT Cruiser.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Sorry, I meant GTO. Change course without telling you.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, I'm so sorry.

[Zach Klippenstein]

The PT Cruiser I drove.

[Matt Farah]

Still on the PT Cruiser. GPO drives a.

[Zach Klippenstein]

No.

[Matt Farah]

You driven a Chevy SS?

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah, or G8.

[Matt Farah]

GX. Pontiac G8. They drive like that. Like earlier, a little bit raw version of that. But like, they're very pleasant to drive. They're nice. They are heavy. They're good. They make really good road trip cars. You know who fucked?

[Zach Klippenstein]

Remember.

[Matt Farah]

Acp? ACP has his stunt car is one.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Oh, that makes sense.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Yeah, they make a good stunt car, good drift car and a good road trip car.

[Zach Klippenstein]

It's.

[Matt Farah]

They're nice. Yeah, they. They are nice.

[Zach Klippenstein]

They think they're America's SC 430.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, I don't. I don't know. Like, I don't mind them how they, how that car looks as an Australian Holden. Like, I don't legitimately don't mind it, but something about it as a GTO is just so lame to me.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Isn't that a bummer?

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

What's in a name?

[Zach Klippenstein]

I agree.

[Matt Farah]

It's just not a GTO.

[Zach Klippenstein]

I love GTOs, but.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, I don't think Pontiac had any. That's why they did that. They didn't have the money for a Firebird replacement. Obviously. They were like on their way out anyway. And it was a whole like, what's laying around kind of thing.

[Zach Klippenstein]

They had a budget to print three letters on plastic. And Ford was like, we redesigned an entire car.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. And they changed the bumpers on the Holden Commodore and made it the G8.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Oh, yeah.

[Matt Farah]

I forget what the two door one was called. It wasn't the Commodore, but it was basically the two door version of the same car. Fuck. What was it called? Damn it. Someone's gonna get real mad that I don't know that. But who cares? Kurt Burgstadt says, oh, can we have. I mean, okay, that's just a request for guests. Nobody cares about my G70 straight up. Do either of you still enjoy wrenching on your own cars or do you simply not have the time?

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yes, to both of those questions.

[Matt Farah]

Do you enjoy wrenching on your car?

[Zach Klippenstein]

I enjoy it more because it's the singular Focus thing if I have the time and I can just go in there and no email, no text, stuff like that. And it just gives my hands and brain something to do. I think it's like you playing guitar. Although playing guitar can't really go wrong the way wrenching can.

[Matt Farah]

That's true. I do not enjoy wrenching on my own car. I have to crawl into uncomfortable positions that hurt my body.

And I don't trust myself to do it right. And I want to drive my car fast on the side of a mountain. So, like, let me pay someone who knows what they're doing to make sure that my car doesn't cause me to die.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Having said that.

I'm not handy. I can fix shit around my house a little bit. I just rebuilt my pool robot. So I'm not super not handy or not willing to do shit, But.

I need my car to work at a limit, and I don't trust myself.

[Zach Klippenstein]

You don't want a wrench on your taycan? Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

I mean, I'll change wheels and I'll do basic little shit like that.

I have other things to do, and I don't really care that much. Westside Garage 419. There we go. Why does it seem like nobody likes black wheels except me? What am I missing? I think black wheels make your wheels generally look smaller than they are.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Until we can change the color of tires really well.

[Matt Farah]

Right.

[Zach Klippenstein]

I just think it turns unless it's a very clear picture with the right light, it makes your wheel well look like a black hole and there's nothing in it. And especially if your car is black. Like, I just think it doesn't look good unless it's a perfect picture.

[Matt Farah]

Also, black is not a. Black is a state of. There's not one black. Are we talking about. Are we talking about the black that you would get on the factory wheels of a Honda Civic that are, like, fairly crappy aluminum wheels just painted? Are they hres with a beautiful finish that catches the light? Right.

There's different ways to do black. And how does the black of the wheel interact with the black of the car? Is it the same? Is it different?

So I don't think all black wheels are bad. I think black doesn't look good on certain colors. I would never put black wheels on a blue car, for instance. I don't think that looks good at all. But there's instances where it can look good. I just do think it makes the wheels look smaller.

Christian says, a long time ago, you partnered with a dealership to review a 458 Speciale. Would you partner with another dealer to review special cars like the lfa? Only if the driving opportunity was like appropriate. Like in the case of that video you're referring to. That wasn't like a real drive. I like puttered around the fucking block. It was kind of bullshit actually. Now I'm not saying it wasn't nice of them to offer and I did it but like that's not what I would do. If it was like we're gonna meet you at a track or something with this car, then I would say yes. But outside of that, like no. Dealers like are not who you wanna work with when you're. Cause they need to sell that car. They don't need to sell cars. They need to sell that car.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

And you then can't treat it like you need to treat it.

The Grumbler 500. What do you think about the Rolex Datejust 2? How will it age? Meaning appreciate? It will not appreciate. No datejust will appreciate. Unless it's like some crate. No, no, no datejust will appreciate. Sorry, that's not an appreciating asset. A datejust is a lovely thing for time telling.

It is, it is. It's a watch.

[Zach Klippenstein]

I know but I've never heard you say that about a Rolex.

[Matt Farah]

It's a very nice watch. It is a very nice watch. But like it's not an appreciating asset. It's a treat yourself kind of watch.

So.

You know, are there other watches to consider? That's a passion purchase. So I mean every, every other company makes a version of the Rolex datejust. We talked about this like two shows ago. You have the Omega Aqua Terra. You have every pretty much Grand Seiko makes 12 watches that are interchangeable with the datejust.

You know, so. But this is passion, right? So.

I have a datejust that I really like but I don't expect to ever see the money again that I paid for it.

[Zach Klippenstein]

I would definitely rather have a Grand Seiko. I think they look nicer.

[Matt Farah]

Well, they're certainly more interesting. You know, I'd probably rather. I also have the Roy the Oyster Perpetual 41 with the colorful dial. And I'd rather have that too.

Okay. The Stig's non driving cousin. A 169,000 mile 991 Carrera S coupe. Just sold on cars and bids for just under 40 grand. All driven by the original owner. Which begs the question, why are so many 911 owners afraid to put miles on their cars? Well, I think first that Makes an assumption that isn't necessarily true. It's not been my experience that most911 owners are afraid to put miles in their cars. In fact, I find that California has a high concentration 911s and people tend to actually drive them.

[Zach Klippenstein]

The clubs we see the most in the canyons are Porsche clubs.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. So I think it's. I think while yes, you will find low mile, like a lot of people who have Porsches have cars that are better for daily driving. Like, a lot of people who have a 911 like to put 170,000 miles on a Porsche. You probably don't have like kids. Like, you probably have a lifestyle that suits driving that car and like, good for you. That's cool. But like a lot of people, like people who keep their cars with me, they have a daily because they have like kids or dogs or like a life outside of driving their car. And they can't, you know, they couldn't make that work. Yeah, I'm sure there's people, by the way, if you're a capitalist ahead of a car guy, which, which is fine if that's what you want to be. There's a lot of potentially, if you buy the right car, a lot of profit in not driving it.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

If you get an allocation for a GT3AT sticker and you don't drive it, you're going to make a lot of money. That might be important to you. But if that guy was like, I'm going to buy a 911 and fucking drive it into the ground and okay, that's not a terrible investment either. I mean, that car was probably, I don't know, 100 grand in 2013. 105 maybe. And if he spent drove it 170,000 miles and lost 60,000, $70,000 in that many miles, like, that's fucking great value. So good.

[Zach Klippenstein]

It's a good time. But it takes real work to drive a sports car that much. Like, I've had my car nine years. I've driven 60,000 miles in nine years. Granted, press cars and stuff, but that's my only car and it still has taken me that long, long to do that. So imagine if you're to your point, if you're a family person and you have a daily and a commuter and you drive it on the weekends or once a week to the office or whatever, you just reduce your annual mileage by 80%.

[Matt Farah]

I think there's also people that would rather not commute in their 911 for one reason or another.

I Am not afraid of putting miles on my Spider by any means. I have no intention of ever selling that car and I don't give a fuck what the odometer says. Makes no difference to me. But that doesn't mean I wanted to drive it to dinner last night. Fucking zigzagging across, that's not fun for me.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Nope.

[Matt Farah]

So like I leave it at home. So I made that person if they live, if, if I lived in the woods in Connecticut like where my parents lived. Hell yeah. Give me an all wheel drive 911 and that's and two sets of wheels and that's my car. No problem. But not here. So different strokes for different folks. She likes it in the adas. I love this one is potentially the best username I've ever read. With the talk about what options of added value for collector cars. Can you think about any options that have directly hurt the value of cars? Fo show three letters. Smg.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Smg. Any convertibles? Convertibles are more expensive on the front end and cheaper in the second hand market.

[Zach Klippenstein]

That's a good point. I mean to use my own answer from before in reverse like paddle shift to transmission versus manual transmission. Yeah but I don't want the cheaper side of things.

[Matt Farah]

Let's see if.

[Zach Klippenstein]

With collector cars I think when you get the base of something like and I mean like if you get a C8 Corvette without the Z51 package then the enthusiasts are not drawn to it as much because it can't even handle like basic track work and all the things the car and the platform can handle.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Now you don't have any of that cool stuff.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

I. It's like certainly transmissions because the those paddle shifter ones are more were more expensive.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Options that hurt the value.

[Matt Farah]

The biggest ones it's gotta be convertible tops, single, you know, semi automated gearboxes. I mean certainly colors. I mean you could spec a car that was hideous. That's true. Certain companies will let you.

[Zach Klippenstein]

I would add complicated suspension before the tech was really ready. Oh yeah, like you know, air suspension or height adjustable stuff when it's just known for braking being incredibly expensive to fix. Or like twin turbo V12 Mercedes you know versus four liter V8 or something like that.

We got like six.

[Matt Farah]

Johnny E.V. geuberman says if a ND1C5 Corvette and a 986 Boxster S are the same price. What are you picking?

[Zach Klippenstein]

What do you want to fmk it?

[Matt Farah]

Oh fuck. Mary kill. All right, fine. You marry the meow. You fuck the Porsche, you kill the Corvette.

[Zach Klippenstein]

I Would marry the Miata and I would fuck the Corvette and I would kill the Boxster.

[Matt Farah]

Boxster would just die on its own. Chabby says, have I thought of trading the Countach into a Diablo or. Mercy no. Why would I do that? Do people not poster car. You don't upgrade your post. The poster car exists in stasis. There is no, there's no like. Oh, let me upgrade this to whatever the newer version is. That was the dream. The dream is there. The dream is real. The dream is here. The dream is to drive that car. Not fucking rollover minutes. Diablos are okay. They're lovely, they really are. But they don't really, they don't really do it for me.

[Zach Klippenstein]

I agree. And I think the Countach looks better.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Smaller.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Last four.

[Matt Farah]

This is the funniest question ever. John Hennessey, you next Tuesday. Would you ever do a show stone owned? No.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Would you?

[Matt Farah]

Absolutely not. No, I would absolutely not. Never. Would I prepare for a podcast by smoking the wheat? Never.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yep, that's the Quaker in you.

[Matt Farah]

Why would I do that? Sob story says best. Wait, what? Okay, what is the best unused car, model, name that a manufacturer should consider bringing back? I'm sure Probe is not the answer, but always thought Beretta was cool. Beretta is cool. Cool. Brett is cool. We had a bunch that we thought would work when they, when Ford was bringing back like electric car. When they were doing electric stuff like Galaxy.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Like their spacy names.

[Zach Klippenstein]

That was you. I remember you said that. And that would have been a great name.

[Matt Farah]

Galaxy would have been a good one for electric cars. Yeah.

[Zach Klippenstein]

I like any of the snake names cuz I'm a second grader. Any car that's ever been named after a snake python, I'm like, yeah, yeah, sure.

I never said I was the mature one in this building.

[Matt Farah]

Hilarious.

Yeah, I would like to see some, some name some good names.

[Zach Klippenstein]

The Bonneville, but only it would only work if it was on a car that went 300 miles per hour. It would have to be some speed setting, record setting thing.

[Matt Farah]

Well, that was the, that's from the, the king of the bits that we would always do back in the day. Which was the. In it the least appropriately named vehicle. Like where would you never see this? And so Bonneville was right up there along with the Chrysler New Yorker, the Chevy Monte Carlo. That's the Monte Carlo.

Llc. Says my dad's had some cool cars and it's fun thinking about which one I'd like to have in the future to relive the Childhood memories. What memories should I Relive? Live. A 2010 Viper ACR 2008 V8 Vantage? An R8 V10 Spider, C6ZR1, Nissan GTR, AMG, GTR or 997 Turbo Cab?

[Zach Klippenstein]

Your dad's cool.

[Matt Farah]

Your dad's pretty cool, man.

I would like to own of those. Probably the R8 V10 Spider, the Vantage. Or that, the V8 Vantage. If it was a 4 7. I forget what year they changed over.

[Zach Klippenstein]

I think.

[Matt Farah]

I think if it was a stick 4 7, then maybe that Vantage Black Camel. That sounds nice. I'd probably want the R8 Spider. That's a good one.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Those are cool.

[Matt Farah]

Uli Kunkel's Autobahn. Have you ever done a driving tour of the Natchez Trace Parkway? It looks beautiful, but stretches of it are limited to 50 or 60 miles an hour. That is not a problem.

[Zach Klippenstein]

I was gonna say most roads are limited to some sort of miles per hour.

[Matt Farah]

I don't know. Let's take a look at it. Where's. Where is it? It's Mississippi to Tennessee. Can we get a map of it? Let's see how this looks. That street certainly isn't it.

Wow. It is it? Well, it doesn't. I mean, I'm saying it's not it in terms of like.

I mean, here's the thing where, like, who's gonna pay good money to go, like, stay in like rural ass, Mississippi? Dude, no offense, go to Jackson. But like, where. What. What racetracks are we gonna find? Like. Like it. Look, I. All right. I'm sure sections of this are like a very beautiful road.

Like it. It looks like certain parts have some things resembling curves.

Looks this is a road through dense woods. Can't. Can't see.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Quality is good, but it seems like by the sh. Shape, it's pretty. It's sweeper. Just this side is off. Off of straight.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Like, it's really big. Sweepers.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, like those. Those types of corners are not like tight and technical enough.

[Zach Klippenstein]

They're just not fun. It just. Yeah, it's gonna feel like you're commuting on a back highway at car speed.

[Matt Farah]

Like the little side roads around the. Like. Look at. Some of the side roads. Look way better.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

I like where your head is at. I appreciate the suggestion, but that doesn't seem like it. And I don't know who the fuck is gonna pay 10 to 15 GS to vacation in Mississippi. I just. I don't know who that is. And where's the racetrack?

[Zach Klippenstein]

I don't know. Quick correction. The GTO came out in 04, not 06. So I misspoke.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. But in 06 it became a six liter.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yes, it did get better.

[Matt Farah]

That's it.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yep, that's it.

[Matt Farah]

I'm going to Texas. Yeah, dude, Going to Texas and I'm going racing. And I hope it's all good. It should be. It should at least be fun. I mean, I only need to be faster than one person. Johnny, as long as I'm faster. As long as I'm faster than you.

[Zach Klippenstein]

The person you will be faster than and the only person probably, if I can get.

[Matt Farah]

I mean, if I can get anywhere close to the. To the fast guys, that would be yes. Because this car is about like, if it was a 600 horsepower car, there's no way I'm getting close to the fast guys. This car, it could be the kind of car where I could get pretty close.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Especially, you know, after 20, 30 laps.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Good sessions because you're used to these speeds, whereas, like, once the power gets.

[Matt Farah]

Real up there, it gets real crazy.

[Zach Klippenstein]

Tommy's got that experience of closing speeds with crazy with can am stuff.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, that's a special stuff. No, thank you, sir. So I don't know, but it's fun. This will be the fastest car I've ever wheel to wheel raced. So that'll be a lot of fun.

[Zach Klippenstein]

My money's on you.

[Matt Farah]

Thank you to our patrons for such good questions on this one. Thank you to, to everybody else for joining in and tuning in, and we certainly appreciate your support. And I'll see you guys next week when I'm back from Texas. Bye.