Rivian R1S Review; Is EV Depreciation Good?; Q&A!

Summary

The Smoking Tire Podcast – Episode Summary

Title: Rivian R1S Review; Is EV Depreciation Good?; Q&A!
Hosts: Zack Klapman & Matt Farah
Release Date: February 18, 2025

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1. Introduction & Episode Overview

In this engaging episode of The Smoking Tire, hosts Zack Klapman and Matt Farah delve deep into the world of electric vehicles (EVs) with a comprehensive review of the newly released Rivian R1S. Despite initial plans to take the R1S off-roading, unforeseen circumstances led the duo to pivot towards an in-depth discussion and comparison with other electric SUVs like Tesla's Cybertruck, the electric G-Wagon, and the Ford Lightning. Additionally, the hosts explore the intriguing topic of EV depreciation and its implications on the enthusiast market, culminating in a dynamic Q&A session addressing listener inquiries.

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2. Rivian R1S Review

A. Off-Roading Attempts and Initial Impressions

The episode kicks off with Zack and Matt recounting their two unsuccessful attempts to take the Rivian R1S off-roading. The first attempt was thwarted by being "winded out," while the second faced unexpected road closures, leading them to shift focus to an extensive review instead. Zack remarks at 00:05 "the off road park is closed," highlighting the abrupt change in plans.

B. Performance and Powertrain Analysis

The R1S is equipped with a tri-motor setup, delivering impressive power comparable to the first-generation quad-motor version. At 06:03, Zack notes, "it runs a low 11 in the quarter mile. Zero to 60 is like 2.9. It's very, very quick, as you would expect and unnecessarily quick." However, the hosts debate the practicality of such power in a 7-seater SUV, with Matt suggesting, "you rarely need that much power."

C. Handling and Suspension Dynamics

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the vehicle's handling, especially in different suspension modes. While in comfort mode, the R1S exhibits some "string strange rear end behaviors" (07:52), likened to vintage rally cars like the Audi Quattro and Lancia Stratos. The hosts commend the availability of a firm mode that rectifies these quirks, ensuring more predictable handling.

Zack elaborates, "it's like the Ferrari of SUV steering ratios. Very, very sharp steering ratio," emphasizing the need for the rear steer system to be in sync with the front to prevent an "unsettled" feel (09:59).

D. Interior Quality and Design

Comparing the R1S to competitors, Matt praises its interior quality, likening it to the best aspects of Volvo while criticizing Tesla's minimalist approach. He states, "the layout of the interior generally is really nice," and appreciates the premium feel, though he expresses minor grievances with the door handles' heft (10:51).

E. Technological Features and User Interface

The R1S offers a native navigation system without CarPlay or Android Auto integration. While Zack finds the system responsive, he acknowledges limitations in offline functionality, especially in remote areas. Both hosts discuss the challenges of touchscreen controls versus physical buttons, advocating for a hybrid approach to minimize driver distraction (16:57).

F. Battery and Range

With a substantial 141 kWh battery, the R1S boasts an impressive range of up to 350 miles, surpassing competitors like the Cybertruck by approximately 40%. Matt concurs, "the range is really good," attributing it to Rivian's efficiency (14:58).

G. Pricing and Market Positioning

Starting at $105,000, the tri-motor R1S is priced competitively against luxury SUVs like the Range Rover, which Matt notes, "you could go pretty loaded up Rivian for about the same money as base model Range Rover" (31:06). They discuss Rivian's value proposition, emphasizing its electric foundation and superior build quality without the premium price tag of traditional luxury brands.

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3. Is EV Depreciation Good?

The hosts explore the impact of EV depreciation on market dynamics. Zack posits that while depreciation could make used EVs more accessible, enhancing mass adoption, "without home charging, EVs become a lot less appealing," limiting the overall effectiveness of depreciation as a growth catalyst (43:43).

Matt adds, "It will help, but I don't think it'll help as much as really improving the high-speed charging network," underscoring the necessity of robust infrastructure for EV proliferation.

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4. Q&A Session

The episode transitions into a lively Q&A segment where listeners pose a variety of automotive-related questions:

• Sports Cars with High Mileage: Zack and Matt discuss reliable sports cars that can endure over 100,000 miles, recommending models like the air-cooled 911s, Ferrari 360s, and high-mileage NSXs. Zack shares anecdotal evidence of well-maintained high-mileage vehicles, emphasizing their durability.

• Porsche versus NSX Choices: In response to building a decade-spanning garage, Zack and Matt recommend balancing exotic, daily, and luxury cars, suggesting models like the Pantera, Ferrari F50, and LS series for practicality.

• EVs vs. Traditional Investments: Addressing the viability of investing in shared car ownership versus traditional investments, Zack argues that actively owning and maintaining a car can offer better returns and personal satisfaction compared to passive investments in car shares.

• Headlight Brightness Concerns: The hosts express concerns over excessively bright LED headlights, agreeing that they can be problematic for oncoming drivers. Matt references an article by Alana Sher from Car and Driver that delves into the issue, advocating for better regulation and design practices (71:45).

• Acquiring OEM Loaner Cars: Providing advice to new content creators seeking OEM loaner cars, Zack emphasizes creativity and demonstrating value to manufacturers, despite recognizing the challenges faced by those with smaller audiences.

• Track-Specific Modifications: For listeners looking to enhance their vehicles for track performance, Zack advises prioritizing reliability and grip through tire upgrades before considering performance mods like sway bars.

• Watch Recommendations: When asked about affordable titanium watches, Zack highlights brands like Oris and Tudor, while sharing his personal preference for Bell & Ross for aviation-inspired designs.

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5. Closing Remarks

Despite initial setbacks with their off-roading plans, Zack and Matt offer a thorough and insightful review of the Rivian R1S, enriched by comparisons to industry competitors and thoughtful discussions on EV market trends. They conclude with a heartfelt plea for adopting kittens from shelters and a light-hearted jab at missed content opportunities, ensuring listeners leave informed and entertained.

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Notable Quotes

• Zack Klapman (06:03): "It runs a low 11 in the quarter mile. Zero to 60 is like 2.9. It's very, very quick, as you would expect and unnecessarily quick."

• Matt Farah (10:51): "The layout of the interior generally is really nice."

• Zack Klapman (16:57): "Hunt and peck on a touchscreen while driving is not a way that is optimized for humans to control things."

• Zack Klapman (43:43): "Without home charging, EVs become a lot less appealing."

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Time Stamps for Reference

• 00:05 – Introduction to the episode and sponsor mention.
• 02:35 – Off-roading attempts and transition to the review.
• 06:03 – Discussion on Rivian R1S's performance metrics.
• 07:52 – Handling and suspension dynamics in comfort mode.
• 10:51 – Interior quality and comparison with competitors.
• 14:58 – Battery capacity and range discussion.
• 16:57 – User interface and control systems.
• 31:06 – Pricing and market positioning compared to Range Rover.
• 43:43 – EV depreciation and its impact on adoption.
• 71:45 – Concerns over bright LED headlights.
• 73:27 – Final thoughts on headlight functionality.
• 75:49 – Advice on acquiring OEM loaner cars.
• 78:35 – Track-specific modifications advice.
• 61:56 – Watch recommendations.
• 71:59 – Headlight brightness and regulation discussion.

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Enjoyed this summary? Be sure to tune into The Smoking Tire for more in-depth automotive discussions and insights!

Transcript

[Matt Farah]

What's up, everybody?

[Zach Klapman]

Welcome to the Smoking Tire Podcast.

[Matt Farah]

As always, this episode is brought to you by off the Record. We love off the Record, and boy, do we have some news for you. Coming soon, we're going to be phasing out the code on the app. Now. It's still good for the next few months, but for the second half of 2025, it's going to be offtherecord.com TST only. But for now, if you want to sign up for off the Record, if you get a moving violation of any kind in any state, you want to check with off the Record before making any move, off the Record's network of attorneys in almost every jurisdiction in the US can help fight those tickets, right? Can help get points off your record, keep them off your record. And look, those points can cause all kinds of problems later in life. You don't want them, you get off the Record. Now all you have to do is send in a photo of that ticket, describe the incident in your words, and off the Record's team goes to work. They got you covered, so go to offtherecord.com TST if you get a moving violation and they are here to help. We've got 10% off all legal services booked through off the Record with our [e-mail] TST all right, in this episode, Zach and I attempt to go off roading with the new Rivian R1S tri motor. But the off road park is closed. So instead we decide to review the car in the podcast. So the primary meat of this podcast is our discussion about the Rivian R1s. While driving the Rivian R1s, we compare it to the cybertruck, the electric G wagon, the Ford Lightning, et cetera. Plus, we describe the unbelievable amount of overkill it took to wrap Zach's car. We talk about whether EV depreciation will help or hurt the enthusiast market. And I've got some good book recommendations. Now, a note on this podcast, it was recorded back in December, so some record references are slightly out of date as of today, February 18, but a lot of it still works. So enjoy.

[Zach Klapman]

Really I do.

[Unknown]

You know, I normally do like the third caffeine in the morning and I forgot to tell her and I got in the ribbon to get my. My hat or something. I was like, why am I, like.

[Zach Klapman]

Vibrating with the earth? All right, we're in sport. Hello, everybody. Hello. Hello from the car. Boy, did we have a morning. We tried for the second time to take the Rivian R1s off roading. First time we were winded out and.

[Unknown]

This time we were tarmac'd out. This time we arrived at the place and to drive to Rouer Flats off road area. There is a, what, tenth of a mile section of tarmac before you transition to a dirt road. And for that tenth of a mile, a sign said road closed for repairs. Which I just feel like is very ironic.

[Zach Klapman]

I don't think it was the literal. I was talking to a couple people because if you are watching the video version of this and you recognize where we are, you could tell that our aborted off road plan turned into going to good vibes, which we're now driving home from. So. So that was nice, but I talked to somebody out there who said, what was that? Oh, it was wind who said it's probably not the tarmac. They're probably grading the dirt portion of that road.

[Unknown]

Whoa. The off road Viper guy.

[Zach Klapman]

Off Road Viper.

[Unknown]

His YouTube channel is exciting. Yeah, yeah, he's built that and he's jumped it and is like really reinforcing it.

[Zach Klapman]

I bet that is the rattliest car in the history of cars.

[Unknown]

Oh, I watched a video where he like was taking it through Whoops. And then part of the center console fell apart.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, yeah. Not that that makes it less awesome. In fact, maybe it makes it more awesome.

[Unknown]

Lifted off road Viper. Lifted. Sports cars, we've said it many times, are a good idea.

[Zach Klapman]

Yes, a sports car with good on road dynamics will have good off road dynamics. But in the Viper's case, it didn't have that good on road dynamics. But I think making it into an off road vehicle improves it. Actually, I bet you it's better to drive on gravel than it is than it would have been on tarmac.

[Unknown]

Well, things happen at a lower speed slightly. That is good. If your car has bad dynamics, you'd rather have it let go at a slower speed.

[Zach Klapman]

Right.

[Unknown]

You have time to catch it.

[Zach Klapman]

So yeah, we tried to go off roading in the Rivian twice and failed both times. And so I'm sorry, we will not have an off road review for you. And because this vehicle's going back to Rivian in two hours, we don't have time to make a road driving video either. So we figured do a show, talk about the Rivian and that way we would at least be able to tell you guys about it.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Zach Klapman]

So we're driving the. The R1S.S is the SUV. This is the new tri motor, and.

[Unknown]

This is adventure trim. And this is second generation for the R1S.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. So the tri, like the first gen, you could get four motors which was the R1T that we, that we filmed back in the day. And then you could get two motors. That one came out later. We never drove that one. Although our pal Kyle Connor at out of spec says the. That that's the one to have actually. And I, I'm kind of inclined to agree with him having not off roaded this one. But this is the in between. So the tri motor makes as much power as the Gen1 quad motor, right?

[Unknown]

It's slightly faster.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

It's more power. It's 850 or 825 horsepower.

[Zach Klapman]

Eight in as much as makes no difference?

[Unknown]

No. It runs a low 11 in the quarter mile. Zero to 60 is like 2.9. It's very, very quick, as you would expect and unnecessary. Unnecessarily quick.

[Zach Klapman]

Of course I can't. I mean other than today when we're up on the mountain here, I have driven this car in essentially eco mode the entire week. There's even eco mode is like putting out 400, 500 horsepower. So why would you. How often do you need a 7 passenger SUV to have more power than that? Very rarely.

[Unknown]

Very rarely. You know, one of the. You do get some other things. When you upgrade to tri motor you can get more driving modes, although those are available in the dual motor. But you have to get an optional package.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

So there's a lot of crossover between the trims.

[Zach Klapman]

I. Okay, we talked about this on the way up here. This, the. The. The whole, this whole Rivian R1 architecture was pretty clearly designed for the pickup truck first and the SUV second. And that was reflected in how people talked about the suspension of the S. The SUV in the Gen1, Gen2 attempts to address some of those things. But. So what happened in this truck is if you leave it in comfort mode, which is the softest suspension setting which you want for the city, it has some string strange rear end behaviors when. When turning corners that almost resemble, as Zach put it earlier in the car, sort of an overactive and slightly out of sync rear steer system.

[Unknown]

Yeah. It also reminds me of cars where the toe changes as the wheel goes through its travel.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

So you know, on this mountain road we tested, and as you go in a corner, especially if you hit a bump, the back end would kind of suddenly move, move out just slightly. And it was out of sync from what the front was doing.

[Zach Klapman]

Right.

[Unknown]

And this was not at a crazy speed. And to compare, when we put it back in firm mode, oops, I'LL grab that. We put it back in firm mode. It was fine.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. I mean, it's good that there is a mode that handles that. That's that first and foremost. Okay. R1s rotors. When you're on the windy mountain roads, you do want to put the thing into sport and it makes the handling much more predictable. You described it as that sort of disjointed rear steer system. I kind of compared it to when I drove the Audi Quattro. Short wheelbase, the homologation car that Zuckerman had one. And I drove the Lancia Stratos, which is a very short wheelbase rally car. Both of those cars exhibited this very same sort of overactive rear end compared to the front end. You know, you might call it twitchy this, this. It comes out in that this car has really sharp steering ratio. Like it's not like It's. It's of SUVs. It's like the Ferrari of SUV steering ratios. Very, very sharp steering ratio. Which if you don't have that back end under control, you're just sort of like wagging the ass all over the place. Right, right.

[Unknown]

And then you can over correct or it's just too responsive. Like you're moving the wheel very slightly in these corners.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Compared to other SUVs we've driven.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

So if the back suddenly feels like it's moving a little bit more than you expect with your hands, it just. That's just like unnerving. And it's not. Again, when you put it in firm, it's totally fine. And then it handles like a decent yet heavy sports suv. But when you're in the comfort mode, it just feels kind of unsettled.

[Zach Klapman]

I think unsettled is the right word. And I remember when we drove the truck not feeling that. I think that different wheelbase does do something to how this thing goes through a corner in a very fluid way. Which is a bummer because I like everything else about the SUV pretty much better than of the truck.

[Unknown]

Right. Well, now we have a shorter lever, essentially. So any movement in the back is going to be a little bit larger than with the longer lever vehicle.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, totally. The. So they really do get a bunch of stuff right in this truck. The build quality feels really nice. The seats are really good. The layout of the interior generally is really nice.

[Unknown]

I think it's. I think the architecture is beautiful.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And when I first got in this car, it reminded me a lot of the best of Volvo. You know, we've got a lot of fabric in here. The Seat backs are nice, which, it's the back of the seat, but the rear passenger is seeing it. It's, it's got a lot of fabric. I mean, this wood design is nice. The shape of everything matches the design language outside the car, which I appreciate. So the execution, you know, you open this, the door for the first time, you definitely feel like you're in a premium product. And when we got in the Cybertruck, which is sort of a direct competitor to this car in terms of price and other things. Yeah, I think the Cybertruck looks like a, like a kitchen that's too clean or a hospital. It's just very simple square shapes, which I understand matches the exterior of it, but it's all. Teslas just look very SPARTAN and for 100 grand, I don't think they feel like $100,000.

[Zach Klapman]

And also the, the cybertruck, I mean this, the Cybertruck's like stitching wasn't straight.

[Unknown]

Nope, that's true.

[Zach Klapman]

Like things were legitimately wonky on it and this has none of that.

[Unknown]

Very true.

[Zach Klapman]

It was the same with the, with the truck we drove. But like I put the quality of this product as somewhere above Cadillac and below Range Rover.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I think that's fair.

[Zach Klapman]

Which, I mean, for a company's first product is awfully nice. It feels incredibly premium with the exception of maybe the door handles. The door handles to me don't feel that premium. They pop out when the vehicle is unlocked and they pop in when the vehicle is being dropped, driven or locked. But I think the, the pop out handles on some other cars have a little better, like, I don't know, heft.

[Unknown]

And yeah, this spring weight feels lighter than it does on other cars.

[Zach Klapman]

Like even like Kia I think has like, better ones. But that's, that's a pretty minor complaint. The, the heft of a door handle.

[Unknown]

Right. And you know, driving it around town, with the exception of when I was driving around in low mode, yeah, it felt way too firm. But in normal mode it rides really nice and I think it's, it's easy to use, it's easy to steer. Most of the systems I like. I know it's a lot of screen control, but I think at least it's laid out pretty well. It's highly visible. But there are some things that have annoyed me. Adjusting the cruise control. And I realize I'm going to say this is a journalist problem, but I looked online to try to figure out how you can adjust the cruise control with a button in increments because it was Setting the cruise to the speed I was going and the form said you can do it, but I can't find it.

[Zach Klapman]

It seems. It seems like all you can do is engage the cruise control from whatever speed your foot has made the car go correct.

[Unknown]

Or you can change a setting where it will set the cruise control to the posted speed limit of where you are.

[Zach Klapman]

Which. Which don't do that.

[Unknown]

It's kind of optimistic if you're going less than the speed limit, but otherwise it's too slow.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

So that was a little annoying. The overhead and forward cameras on this are worse than the ones in my wife's RAV4. And that car cost half as much as this. Less than half actually. Like when we were exiting good vibes today, you gave me a lot of direction. There's just a fisheye effect to the front camera that makes it really hard for me to judge where the actual corner of this car is. And I don't trust it.

[Zach Klapman]

Whereas the rear, which is weird because it's so square.

[Unknown]

It. Yes.

[Zach Klapman]

You know, usually one of the benefits of a square car is that you know exactly how. Where to place the corners of it.

[Unknown]

Very true.

[Zach Klapman]

Which this car is a little like. The G wagon is a great example of seeing the corners of the car. And this one doesn't really have that. This is also the big battery, which is 100, 140, 141 kilowatt hour. That's a big old battery. Now the gauge cluster says you can get 350 miles out of that, which is nice, but that's probably more than most people need.

[Unknown]

It's a lot.

[Zach Klapman]

It's a ton of battery.

[Unknown]

A lot of. It's a really, a lot of range and it's quite a bit further than comparably priced cyber trucks. I don't know how they achieve that. Rivian did. It's just very efficient. Maybe it's a slipperier car or something. But the range is really good. Even on the smaller battery packs they offer. I think it's three different sizes of battery. So over 300 miles is pretty good.

[Zach Klapman]

We've caught a truck. I don't, you know, especially going from the INEOS to this is some real.

[Unknown]

That is a juxtaposition, you know, that.

[Zach Klapman]

Is a change of pace. And if I could combine, if I could have the INEOS button panels with almost everything else being from Rivian, I think I would have the ultimate daily driven suv.

[Unknown]

I think, I think I would still want to mix like some buttons and then there's plenty of things I don't mind being in a screen if I don't change them frequently.

[Zach Klapman]

Sure.

[Unknown]

But things like I say it all the time, H vac fan, speed, seat heaters, things I want to change quickly without having to look. Yeah, I really appreciate it in the ineos, even though, you know, you have to essentially memorize as many keys as there are on a piano. I did. Very quickly. I just knew where this was and I could look at it and change something without looking at the control. I could still look out the windshield. Whereas this, you know, even though I spent just as small an amount of time in this driving around as I did the ineos, I still got used to where things were on that control panel quicker than I have with this screen.

[Zach Klapman]

Big buttons organized in a, in a nice packaged way for fun by function is a good way to do things that people need to adjust while driving.

[Unknown]

I mean, there's just fewer steps. If you touch a button, it's one action to go to that location. Yeah, but with a screen, a lot of times you have to go to a second screen and then look at a different part of, you know, you have to activate the screen here, let's say on the lower part. And then your finger has to tap a different part of the screen to change the setting.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

So you're going to two locations while driving and it's just very distracting.

[Zach Klapman]

Hunt and peck on a touchscreen while drives. While driving is not a way that is optimized for humans to control things.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I think there's just a nice, there's a middle ground, so somewhere with buttons and screens and hopefully we get there in the coming years.

[Zach Klapman]

Guys, gotta take a quick break because.

[Matt Farah]

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[Zach Klapman]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

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[Zach Klapman]

Some cars, some cars get it right. Still, I mean there are, there's a few cars out there that I driven. The new, the, the new Cadillac Blackwing actually had the right amount of buttons for stuff.

[Unknown]

They've kept that like that row and.

[Zach Klapman]

Then a few, a few on the center.

[Unknown]

Corvette has those. Yeah. Porsche, they're getting away from getting away from them. They hung on for a long time. 911T still had a good amount of buttons, but the new Taycan, it's a lot more capacitive now. They're still isolated to that one spot.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

But there's no. You can't like feel for the button the way you could before. I will say, I know this doesn't come with CarPlay or Android Auto, neither do the Teslas. But I found the navigation system on this to be quick to respond and very easy to see for a native system compared to something like the Lucid which yeah, had a lot more problems. So they've done a good job. But like this, you can get Bluetooth audio with this for free. But if you want an upgraded UI to connect to Bluetooth and use like podcast apps, you still have to. They charge you extra money, which is kind of annoying.

[Zach Klapman]

A little janky, right? Having said that, whatever. My phone just what it has. I haven't, I don't know if I've paid. I mean, I know I haven't paid for anything, but I'm not sure what level of engagement they put in this. But once I set up my phone, the car has done a really good job of recognizing the phone, recognizing everything it needs to recognize about my phone.

[Unknown]

True.

[Zach Klapman]

Yes. No, CarPlay, the native map I've enjoyed using, actually it's pretty good. It doesn't, you know, it doesn't have the community aspect of ways which I do use, but I think it accurately represents traffic which is good. Although we were just up at Newcomb's ranch and I tried to type in the address of the studio, and because this is an LTE connection or 5G or cellular, it would not connect. You could not put in the route. It said offline. It couldn't find us. Now, y. The person that I spoke about the other day in the last show who was talking to me about the Chinese cars, that person, right, The. The patron who will not be named, also has worked in telecom. Remember we talked about the Chinese phones? So he was explaining to me that what I think about that my. My idea that your car GPS should work in places that there are no cell service. That's not like a wrong thought to have. Like, yes, it should. But me saying me referring to the cars as having a quote satellite connection is not accurate. And the guy wanted to correct me on that. And he explained me. And I hope I get this right, please. I. I hope I get this one right. It's not about satellite connection or not.

[Unknown]

It.

[Zach Klapman]

Because the satellite satellite quote connection is just to literally position your car on the satellite map. It's actually that the maps are stored on. In the car.

[Unknown]

Oh, okay.

[Zach Klapman]

So it was either that DVD or a memory card or a hard drive somewhere. The upside of that is it will pull up the map and with the basic satellite signal, it will be able to route you out.

[Unknown]

So it has a. Essentially, to put it simpler, it has a picture of the whole map and it just knows where to put your dot.

[Zach Klapman]

Correct. It already has the map downloaded. Whereas these newer cars, they still do use a satellite to place your dot. But unless you either somehow tell it to download the map or tell your phone to download the map and have it, it doesn't automatically download and store the map.

[Unknown]

It's kind of surprising because downloading Google Maps for offline use, it's a pretty small amount of data. I mean, we've done this when we've gone off road. Off roading, you can do it on your phone. It's like 10 to 100 megabytes. It's not huge. And with the computing power these cars have, I'm surprised that they can't go, okay. The mo. The furthest you can drive in the next few hours is 250 miles.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Download the map for 250 miles.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And then download a new one when they charge. That would be a cool update to have.

[Zach Klapman]

But see, even if we pull up the map screen right now, it. It shows us going down the road, right? It says, search is offline.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Zach Klapman]

So it will now maybe if I have a location that's stored in my hair. Recent destinations. So let's just go to a. It can't search but see if it could get. Can it find a destination. Okay. So all right, so we have a workaround. It does have offline maps so it can't use the search function. So let's be right about this. If you have a location saved like your home, your work or whatever, it apparently can route you there without service.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Zach Klapman]

So you just can't type in.

[Unknown]

It can't download every address. So it downloads the topography and I guess it saves an old address. That data or the GPS point. It saves. Yeah, but it can't find new ones. Yeah. Okay.

[Zach Klapman]

And I didn't type west side collector car storage. So it wasn't trying to do a groove. I typed in the street address.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Zach Klapman]

So it didn't have that, you know, so it's. Look, it's not as good as some other cars native GPS's. It's just not. And this is the R1S. Are you moving over? Yeah. Okay. This is an adventure vehicle. You're supposed to be going off road. The idea is that you're going to be in places that won't have service. And so that if someone is an expert in off roading. Rivians, I would like you to tell me how to tell it to download those maps ahead of time. And maybe it's just, you know, if you, if you can prepare three minutes before you go on that trip. If you know you're going to be somewhere abnormal, you can just tell it to download that map. Right.

[Unknown]

Maybe there's a function for that that we're just not familiar with.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Okay. Okay. So it's not. It may not be as bad as we thought. I hope so.

[Zach Klapman]

Having said that. Oh, you know what? It wants me to turn around because it wants us to go to. I put the coffee shop on the other side of the mountain as a store distance.

[Unknown]

Right, right, right.

[Zach Klapman]

Okay. But let's see what else is really good about this thing in comfort mode on the highway. The ride is very nice.

[Unknown]

I think the seats are great. The seats are very, very adjustable. Good shape.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

You know, it's a three row car. I have not gotten in the rearmost row.

[Zach Klapman]

The rearmost row is very. Oh, they're doing a photo shoot for those E bikes up here. The rearmost row is quite petite.

[Unknown]

Yeah, that'd be for children probably.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. But it's got a big trunk. Once you. Once you Put that down. I mean, in general, like this. I thought when. When I. Because, you know, my wife and I are thinking about a new electric car or possibly a used electric car. And. And I thought, okay, we're gonna have this thing, and Hannah's gonna love it, and we're gonna end up buying one of these. Maybe a used one or maybe maybe lease a new one. And as nice as it is and as many things as they get right. I think this one's too big still. I. I think when they come out with the R2 or certainly that R3, you know, I think that'll be a really nice little car.

[Unknown]

Yeah, it's a big car. It is easy to park, parallel park. The steering articulation is very good.

[Zach Klapman]

Yes.

[Unknown]

You know, it doesn't have rear steer, but the steering angle is really good. I don't know what the turning circle is. I can put it down below, but.

[Zach Klapman]

It'S smaller than I would think. I can do it in your building, Zach, when I picked you up in the morning, I can do that in one move, which is a. Usually a car can or can't. And a good. That happens to be a good measurement. The. Well, we're going to have to start shooting bits in the courtyard of Zach's apartment building. But if I can make that U.

[Unknown]

Turn, that'll be the new U turn test.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

What else? I like the radar cruise on this. I think it reacts well. It's smooth, but it's also aggressive to accelerate up to the car once the car in front of you starts moving. Some cars are too gentle with that. There's a huge gap develops. I like the way it behaves. And now they just did. We just read this huge update this morning. If you activate the automatic lane change, it will actually accelerate or decelerate to, like, find the gap, which is kind of trippy. I'm not sure if I would like that or feel comfortable with it.

[Zach Klapman]

But we did get a big update overnight. Got pushed to the car. It's got tons of stuff. It's got a bunch of, like, Christmas things. Like, you can make your lights do, like, a Christmas dance. That's fun. And you can change colors of things, the Christmas colors. But it also was, like, patches and bug fixes and all kinds of different things.

[Unknown]

It fixed some bugs that it did say were very rare. Some of them, the wording was funny. Like, this one may result in the vehicle being inoperable. Yeah. It added Sirius xm, but it's all on cell phone, of course, or WI Fi, so There was.

[Zach Klapman]

That is a satellite connection. What serious. Like proper serious is. Is a satellite connection. It's not just like, like GPS where it's, you know, the map stored on the car. And it's just a tiny little thing. It's like really is satellite. You know what I mean?

[Unknown]

But I think this one there, it's not. It's we through.

[Zach Klapman]

No, no, no, no, no. In. Yeah, in lucids. When you do those. Is it easy to find those snaps when you do those? When you go to.

[Unknown]

Yeah, it is pretty easy.

[Zach Klapman]

Cool.

[Unknown]

As long as they're louder than the car we're in.

[Zach Klapman]

Okay. Anything else that we need to go over with Rivian?

[Unknown]

Changing the air vent direction with screens is dumb. These are my list of cons. That is stupid. And I can't imagine it's cheaper to do than a manual vent. It has to be more expensive, which is then something that could break. And it's. It's not just that. It's like maybe a. An unreliable thing. It's less convenient.

[Zach Klapman]

I tried to play devil's advocate on that because I was using them the other day and I was so annoyed that I had to use the touchscreen. And I thought the only possible benefit to this is that from the driver's seat, I could change that far passenger air vent to blow to me from. From here.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Zach Klapman]

That's the only thing. Like, you know, this. Those. Sometimes there's those buttons in the back that move the passenger seat forward for, like the chauffeurs.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Zach Klapman]

So it's like that for air vents. But I don't feel dumb.

[Unknown]

I think the number of times you would do that don't justify having this. I also.

[Zach Klapman]

Yes, that's true.

[Unknown]

That is bad now. Pretty good. What else is there?

[Zach Klapman]

It is a little tall. Unless you lower this. Like, if you're getting in and out of it a bunch, you know, you really do want to, like, lower it when you park it. It's like a little tall to climb in and out of. Yeah, I'm. I'm tall and I'm like, oh, I still have to like, hop up to get into it.

[Unknown]

Should we talk about the price? Do we talk about that yet?

[Zach Klapman]

No.

[Unknown]

So this one. So the R1s triple starts at 105. This one, we don't have a Moroni. But looking at the configurator. There we go. It's like 109. And there's other packages you can add to various trim levels. And you can get bigger wheels and you can get like an off road Package with skid plates and stuff like that.

[Zach Klapman]

That does overlap with the base model Range Rover that I drove a couple months ago.

[Unknown]

Ah.

[Zach Klapman]

So you could go pretty loaded up Rivian for about the same money as base model Range Rover.

[Unknown]

And.

[Zach Klapman]

And I understand how that could be a pretty tough decision. Actually, I might if I was looking for that, that thing, this versus bae, if I. I mean the fact that this is electric and the Range Rover is pretty much all touchscreen too.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

It's not like the Range Rover's, uh, oh, forward facing. Forward facing. That's our new camera has overheated.

[Unknown]

It is expensive. It's a little bit more expensive. Expensive than the Cyberbeast spec truck, which is kind of the competitor of this power wise, battery wise, etc, that starts at 99, it starts at 105. And you know, that is the competitor. But I think it's such a Cyberbeast.

[Zach Klapman]

Does come with a free MAGA hat.

[Unknown]

I didn't want to go down that road. I just think this is a much more finished product.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. There's no incentives. You get $7,500 credit and a MAGA hat with a Cybertruck and just the credit.

[Unknown]

Well, and something else that was weird that I was surprised by. Objective thing, in my opinion is with Cybertruck, if you adjust the suspension beyond, you know, different from the preferred height, ride height, it goes back to that after like 100ft or 25 miles per hour. Whereas this, you can set it. You have a wider range of adjustment and it will just let you drive around like that.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Now how often do you need to do that? Well, drive. Driving this in low mode or conserve mode gets you slightly better range. And this has a way better range than the Cybertruck does.

[Zach Klapman]

Well, one of our complaints with the R1T was that if you put it in conserve, which is the mode that you're using most of the time anyway, plenty of power and maximum range that it also lowered the suspension, which for aerodynamics, scientifically makes sense. But if you're using conserved mode in the city, it rides like it's on cut springs and the aerodynamics don't make a huge difference.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Zach Klapman]

So one of our criticisms was to separate those so you could go into conserve mode on higher suspension if you wanted to. They've done that. So it defaults to low, but you can then click high and it will let you do it, which is good. Thank you. That helps.

[Unknown]

The real question for you is which truck would you rather get?

[Zach Klapman]

I have to have one. They're the only Trucks that exist.

[Unknown]

No, but if you had to choose. I'm just really curious. About what?

[Zach Klapman]

Cybertruck versus this. Well, I mean, listen, nothing makes me feel better than giving Elon Musk my money. Nothing.

[Unknown]

All right. Oh yeah. This is way cheaper than the G wagon. By like.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. Just over probably half the price of the G Wagon.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And I mean, the G Wagon is very charming and does a lot of things very well. This is probably objectively a better electric vehicle because it's built ground up to be electric.

[Unknown]

Well, the rain. I mean, this is much more efficient.

[Zach Klapman]

Much more efficient. And it has a bigger battery. I wish we could have gone off road. You know, maybe the tri motor is slightly worse than the G Wagon's quality quad motor, but these tires would have more than made up for that difference.

[Unknown]

Oh, but that's right, we did. I thought it was more efficient because you said the amount of battery used to get G Wagon from shop to rouer was much greater. But this battery is actually 40% larger.

[Zach Klapman]

Yes.

[Unknown]

Than the battery in the G Wagon. And the difference in range is about 40%.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

So maybe the G Wagon's not as brick shaped as we thought.

[Zach Klapman]

I mean, it's pretty brick shaped. It's pretty bad. It's. It's this, this car advertises 40% more range than the G Wagon advertises. But I wasn't getting anything near the advertised number in the G Wagon, so.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Zach Klapman]

You know, whatever the neither of them are. If you really want to build a very efficient vehicle, I would suggest not building a 6800 pound SUV. That's. I would start. Start there maybe.

[Unknown]

Good point.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Okay. We will be within cell service very soon.

[Zach Klapman]

Oh yeah. Zach needs the cell service to get the questions. The picture on what happens when we drive down the mountain with nothing. Watch like so many cool things happen that that front facing camera is gonna miss. It would be amazing. Just like, just like the Virgin Mary appears over this baseball field. We didn't have the shot.

[Unknown]

I don't think she was a virgin. So.

[Zach Klapman]

No. That ho Mary. All right, what else has happened in the world of cars?

[Unknown]

Did we talk about my hood being sanded down to metal on the show?

[Zach Klapman]

No, we did not.

[Unknown]

So for the folks, I went to check on my car's wrap progress and they're doing stuff and it looks great. And they go, oh, did you see your hood? I'm like, well, I know it's not on the car. Yeah, I do have questions. And then they went, oh, come here. So they had applied the wrap Material to the hood. And then when they moved on to other sections, they looked back at the hood, and they saw the wrap was letting go, and they thought that the adhesive on the wrap was letting go of the paint. Incorrect. Unfortunately, my hood had been repainted at some point in the life of the vehicle. And let's call the second layer of paint the cheese. And the first layer of OEM Paint was the hamburger. The cheese was lifting off of the hamburger and just being peeled up because there's a little bit of tension on the wrap. That's how they, like, stretch it down, and it sticks well. So whoever got the hood painted, repainted, didn't pay enough money, and it wasn't done very well. And the bonding from old clear to new paint was not significant. So it just separated. So they had. The only choice they have Is to sand the hood down to aluminum, which it is now, and then they have to prep that and then wrap it. So I asked the tech, has he ever dealt with a situation like this in his 13 years of this job? And he said, only once. This is, like, one of the most difficult projects they've ever.

[Zach Klapman]

Crazy.

[Unknown]

So this is. And this also is why paying for a decent quality paint job and prep is so important, because not doing so can have problems later on. Not only will your clear coat peel off like mine did, but if you try to wrap the car, the paint rips apart.

[Zach Klapman]

Well, yeah, the wrap is supposed to be. It was supposed to be kind of a stop gap, really, for, you know, to prevent you from having to paint it. It was supposed to, you know, kick the can down the road.

[Unknown]

It still is, and it is still cheaper Than getting a proper paint job. But I think I'm learning what happens if, you know, if someone just sands your car, doesn't really prep it that well. They shoot paint on it, like, yeah, it'll look good for six to 10 years. Yeah. But it'll eventually let go, and then you discover that it was not done very well. So the saga continues. Yeah. But I also learned something interesting. The the E46 to wrap the front bumper requires, like, 10 different pieces, because there's all these little, like, side covers and vents and things, and the way the car construction has really changed. We went and looked at a bunch of modern cars at the shop, and all of the bumpers are, like, one solid piece. So wrapping new cars is a lot easier because it takes fewer little cuts and sheets to make that makes sense. But, like, looking at old Porsches up there, the bumper is separated by these little rubber things, rectangles. You have to cover all of those individually. So I'm their favorite person.

[Zach Klapman]

Good thing they gave you a deal.

[Unknown]

They regret that, I'm sure. And I really appreciate it.

[Zach Klapman]

That sucks.

[Unknown]

Oh, my God, it is. It's the Money Pit.

[Zach Klapman]

That's funny.

[Unknown]

Is that new M5, huh?

[Zach Klapman]

No, no, that's the, the. No, that's the i5 electric one. That was not great on the track in the performance EV of the year competition.

[Unknown]

All right, well, we have service, so we can go to the Patreon. If you want to ask questions on the smoking Tire and have us answer them, join our patreon patreon.com the Smoking Tire podcast. You can watch the show live most of the time, unless we're recording it from a mountain. And you also can ask questions and get the show early and ad free.

[Zach Klapman]

And also before Zach gets to those, there is a post on my Instagram from December 19th and that is talking about three kittens at the Peter Zippy Fund, the shelter that Hannah and I support. These kittens are very, very sweet, very cute, and they need homes and they've been in the shelter for way too long. There's no reason they've been in the shelter. There's nothing wrong with them. And they're very, they're very beautiful. And, and please, if someone is looking for a new friend for, for your family, please consider adopting a kitten this winter.

[Unknown]

Do they have friars?

[Zach Klapman]

They have friars. They're felons. But they're. But they were minor. They were minors at the time. So Porsche transporter here.

[Unknown]

Wow. All right, so first question. Tim A says, what other cars. What other sports cars do you think.

[Zach Klapman]

Tim A is supposed to be? Tim A.

[Unknown]

That's a good question.

[Zach Klapman]

Okay, we can ponder that. These and other questions.

[Unknown]

How much does Tim A like South Park? Is the question. What other sports cars would we own at over 100,000 miles?

[Zach Klapman]

What sports cars would we own at a hundred thousand miles? 911s, particularly air cooled 911s, I think are. Are easy to own at that mileage.

[Unknown]

You think you'll keep your NSX to that long?

[Zach Klapman]

How many miles are on it? I mean, I just hit 20,000 miles.

[Unknown]

Oh, okay.

[Zach Klapman]

And I, I'll probably do like 1000 to 1500 miles a year. So I don't think I'll live long enough. But I was just.

[Unknown]

Yeah, that's a car I would own or buy at 80 or 130 and with without hesitation that would.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, I mean, a high mileage NSX is an okay car to buy. The guy up on the hill that I was just talking to with that red 355, that car was a 1:1 owner car with 60,000 kilometers on it. And it had like, you know, all these service records and you know, the, the guy he bought it from had bought it new and just driven it, you know, regularly for 20 years. And I was like, that is just exceptional. That is the right car. But yeah, I mean I think, I think a Ferrari 360 could easily do a hundred thousand miles. One of the best ones I ever drove was a high mileage one. So yeah.

[Unknown]

All right. Var. The var. After driving the new Ferrari suv, do we think they made the right choice by putting a V12 in it? Would the V12 have been better served in one of the their other cars? You know, if they can only use the V12 in so many things, should they have put it in something else?

[Zach Klapman]

I certainly think that the best way to make the purosangue stand out is by putting the V12 in it. I think they would have been too much the same as all of the other super SUVs if they put in a twin turbo V8 or twin turbo V6. And the 12 makes it quote, worse as an SUV because it has less torque and the low end grunt isn't there. But the sound, the experience and all that, you know, for all that money, you're buying a different type of experience than really any other manufacturer can sell you.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I agree. Okay. Do we think that the dramatic depreciation of EVs is part of why mass adoption is slow?

[Zach Klapman]

It's, it's part of. But I mean there are, there. I think there are probably bigger factors. I think the lack of really ubiquitous public charging is probably the big one. I think most people, and also price actually expensive.

[Unknown]

I think I read this wrong. Will the depreciation actually help people get into used ones and entice more of the market? Because as we know so many of the EVs are pretty damn expensive to get new. But when they start to drop by 50%, if someone sees an Ionic 5 for 30 grand or a used Tesla for 25, will that help bring in more of the market?

[Zach Klapman]

I mean it certainly couldn't hurt. But again, without home charging, EVs become a lot less appealing. So I think the most, I mean, yes, it will help, but I don't think it'll help as much as really improving the high speed charging network, the availability and reliability of that as well as multi family Charging opportunities as well and apartments and things like that.

[Unknown]

Brian George says his son's getting ready, ready to start driving and he loves Audis. We drove by an Audi TT on a cheap dealer lot. So I'm here asking would that be a decent first car?

[Zach Klapman]

So in general, sure. They're, they're golf based. Right. So you know, but they do have a lot of parts on them that are only for the tt. You know, the engine and stuff like that is fine. But we, and Audi does not make a lot of parts for the first gen TT anymore. Which means if stuff is broken, it may cost more time, money, energy than you know, a ten thousand dollar car might justify. So if you're a real enthusiast of that car, then it's a great way into a cool iconic car. Those cars were very design forward and very cool. But if you have to replace something that seems simple, but it's $4,000, you paid 10 for the car. That's, that's tough math to deal with. So.

[Unknown]

Yeah, very true. I think, I think if they're really into Audis, you know, you can get an A3, you could maybe get an older S3 depending on how safe you think your kid will drive. And they'll, they'll get the Audi experience, they get the Audi badge and it's a more usable car. They could take friends around, which is helpful and those parts are going to be more common and a little bit less expensive.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, we had to get, we have a client who stores an early TT with us and we had to get a major service done for it and fix a couple things on it. And there were some parts that were pretty basic parts that we had to source from dismantlers and stuff because you know, they're just. Audi doesn't support the car anymore.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Zach Klapman]

So you just can't get stuff.

[Unknown]

That's another thing.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, very frustrating thing across the Audi spectrum.

[Unknown]

Dude. I had to buy a window seal and to get the seal, no one sells the seal by itself. You have to buy it with trim and it's 500 per side.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

So you might run into a situation like that where the car is just too old. Audi doesn't make that part. And it could be very expensive to find an aftermarket market solution. All right, Cyclone says build a three car, three car decade garage, one car from each, from each decade. Seventies, eighties, nineties.

[Zach Klapman]

Why has it got to be seventies, eighties, nineties and not eighties nineties, two thousands, which is probably how I would build my garage.

[Unknown]

Also one daily, one fun one and one luxury car. The 70s had some really fun, exotic stuff, I suppose.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, but. But not a lot of it appeals to me personally. But.

[Unknown]

But you want an old countach.

[Zach Klapman]

I would. An old countach? Yeah, sure. Okay, so an exotic. So an exotic. A daily and a what? And a luxury car.

[Unknown]

A luxury car.

[Zach Klapman]

All right, so we have to do 70s, 80s, 90s. So 70s I'd probably want. Let's assume that we do not need to service any of this.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Zach Klapman]

70S. You want a Mercedes 600 grocer.

[Unknown]

I'm gonna go Pantera.

[Zach Klapman]

Okay.

[Unknown]

I'm gonna do my exotic first.

[Zach Klapman]

Okay.

[Unknown]

Because nothing really ran that well back then, so I might as well have something really fun.

[Zach Klapman]

Sure.

[Unknown]

Extremely seventies.

[Zach Klapman]

And so. So my luxury car is from the seventies.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Zach Klapman]

My. I'm gonna go. Let's see the Ferrari F40 from the eighties. My. Is my exotic. Oh, no. Oh, no. We need to. We're gonna have to. We may have to.

[Unknown]

That's a good point. I could audible and I could go Ferrari F50 from the 90s.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

As my exotic. I'll do that. Sorry, Pantera.

[Zach Klapman]

I want. I want the newest car to be my daily. I want. I don't want 70s or 80s daily drivers. I want a.

[Unknown]

Well, the LS400 was.89. Was the first year it was made in 89. The first year was 1990.

[Zach Klapman]

That's true. That is true. I don't think There was an 89 model year, but you could go on build date. You want a technicality.

[Unknown]

I'm gonna go with a loophole, because that's how the country runs.

[Zach Klapman]

That's what I'm going. 90s. So a daily driver. It's got to be a 98, 99. It's got. It's got to be whatever the. The newest LS400 or 430 I could get from that period would have to be my daily drive. Although I might want something that was a little more like. I might want an SUV for. For that function. When did they start? No. 90s. Yeah. No, it's probably LS.

[Unknown]

Yeah. You can get a Grand Wagoneer.

[Zach Klapman]

Oh, yikes. No, thank you.

[Unknown]

Don't do that.

[Zach Klapman]

No, thank you.

[Unknown]

Okay. What is the level? Someone at chilling on my pavilion asks, is Hannah into the use tycoon idea?

[Zach Klapman]

She. She does not object. She wants to drive one first, which I'm pretty sure she has driven one. She just doesn't remember because she came with me when we did the Taycan 4S range test to Palm Springs and back, which it did very easily. But I, I, she did drive that car. But I, she doesn't really remember. So we actually may have to like go to like a car max or something. Because I want to, I want her to drive a, not the, I don't want to ask Porsche for one.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Zach Klapman]

Because they're going to give us some brand new thing. That's not representative of what I'm talking about.

[Unknown]

Very true.

[Zach Klapman]

So you have to go find one to drive somewhere.

[Unknown]

Bad gardener says his parents have a new Z06 and a model X plaid could. What would you, what would you choose for a two car garage outside of Dallas? So you need two cars for 200 grand and you live in Dallas Because a Corvette and a Model X are extremely Texas in my opinion.

[Zach Klapman]

They are extremely Texas. Wow. That guy. Is that his real hair?

[Unknown]

It can't be.

[Zach Klapman]

He's doing a bit, right?

[Unknown]

He's doing a bit. He had orange hair on top and long gray hair underneath.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, it was like a Brett Michaels thing he was doing.

[Unknown]

I think the visor had the orange hair.

[Zach Klapman]

Okay.

[Unknown]

But his gray mustache was pretty flowy.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And that was also driving a Camaro.

[Zach Klapman]

With a convertible with an American flag draped across the hood.

[Unknown]

Okay, now I regret not having the front facing camera.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Let's see if it'll work again.

[Zach Klapman]

So where were we when that happened? Oh, the hundred thousand, $200,000 Texas garage. Yeah, I mean a Z06 and an EV commuter. That's all right. I like that. I'm on board.

[Unknown]

Sorry, sorry. Start over.

[Zach Klapman]

I like a Z06 with an EV commuter as a Texas combination. That's cool. Cool with me.

[Unknown]

I would alternate, I would also CT5V Blackwing. Yeah, that's a very good way to sub out the Corvette.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Better family car than the C8. Kind of answered that already. We don't want to answer that question. It was a repeat from a week ago. We didn't want to answer it then.

[Zach Klapman]

Oh, was it about another YouTuber doing a thing?

[Unknown]

Yes, it's that exact question.

[Zach Klapman]

Look, man, I, I, I'm not gonna. Unless someone is doing something blatantly like you legal. I'm not going to knock someone's hustle. That's what they want to do to make a living.

[Unknown]

I think.

[Zach Klapman]

I mean, I can talk about that as a general concept. We've talked about it before.

[Unknown]

Yeah, there's basically, it's a business model. There's a couple places that do it where you can buy shares in things. Not companies like you can buy a share of a Ford gt such as cars. So what was going to be rally.

[Zach Klapman]

Whatever rally road I think they did.

[Unknown]

You can buy shares of cars and shares of baseball cards and basically shares of collectibles. We've promoted shares of art. You know, it's definitely a new business that has arisen to on the pitch is to help your average person get investment access to things that are usually outside their reach but they may have a better knowledge of because it's part of their hobby.

[Zach Klapman]

Right.

[Unknown]

So I do understand that. But I think with a car the fun is owning of owning it is driving it, not just going hey, I own a piece of that. If it goes like you'll probably beat that investment if you invest in an index almost all the time.

[Zach Klapman]

Right. There's no, I don't personally see a point to investing in cars that you're not owning and driving yourself. Especially because there is a, there is an enthusiastic enthusiast car at almost any price point. I mean admittedly it may start at like five grand but there, but you know you, if you buy a car like let's say here's, here's two, two people. One person invests in a company that buys shares of a Ferrari F40 and the Ferrari F40 goes, you know, they, they then take it to auction and sell it and you get you know a 15 return on your investment for that Ferrari F40. But let's say somebody else goes and buys like a Fox body Mustang somewhere for five grand. They put in a little bit of elbow grease, detail it up nice. Maybe they service it in their own driveway or have it serviced. They drive it, enjoy it for a year, take it to cars and coffee, do it like a super detail on it and do some nice photography of it. Put it for sale on a cars and bids or, and bring a trailer and the car you bought for five grand you now sell for eight grand, 7500. Well you have just made a better return on a car that you enjoyed than that. You may, than you know, the fund made you on a car that you never even got to see in person, let alone sit in or drive up mountain road. So like it's not that, like it's not a scam, it's not illegal. At least I, I believe that our friends that, that promote companies that are doing this. I don't think they're, they're intending to promote anything that's shady. I just, I think these, these companies are hiring influencers to, to spread their message. But I don't personally agree with the message.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I just, I'm just Not interested in that. And oh, here we go. Now we can get the shot of this guy. And I also don't think it's the best investment you could do with your money because most cars underperform the stock market or the indexes year over year. There are some exceptions. Exceptions. And maybe in the short term, but it just doesn't seem like a great idea.

[Zach Klapman]

It seems much more beneficial to the people running the fund than any of the shareholders.

[Unknown]

That's true of so many funds. Yeah, yeah. You also have to like, do they prove that they don't drive the car around? I don't know. Someone asked if we've seen the story about an engineer at Jaguar was fired because he was posting whistleblowing content on Reddit about, about Finfast and Tata. So have you read that? I have not, no. Okay, we'll read it. We'll respond back. Miles Johnson asks, do we think Rivian will survive? So I quickly googled what their sales performance has been. This is very general. Year over year their sales are up 20%.

[Zach Klapman]

Most companies would be happy with that.

[Unknown]

Right. In 2023 their revenue was 4.43 billion, which, which was 167% growth compared to the year before that. So that seems at again a quick glance. Yeah, I think things are doing better. Of course they're probably still operating in the red. Go ahead.

[Zach Klapman]

Unless they are just lighting money on fire at the other half of that. I don't see why not. Not to mention now Volkswagen would want to protect its investment.

[Unknown]

Right?

[Zach Klapman]

Volkswagen probably would, would not let Rivian.

[Unknown]

Go under domestic sales volume.

[Zach Klapman]

And I think, yeah, I mean I think, I think there are real people that want to buy these vehicles. I think Rivian's two upcoming products. Look. Oh, that was a right hand drive Corniche coupe going the other way. That is extremely rare.

[Unknown]

Now if these sales numbers are accurate, this is on goodcarbadcar.net they're very like, the numbers are low. This year they basically averaged about $4,000, 4,000 cars per month. So you know, 50,000 units sold per year roughly. Hopefully a little more than that.

[Zach Klapman]

I mean, yeah, but they're also going to be using, they're going to be a supplier for Volkswagen and stuff. Like they're gonna, you know, they're gonna be doing, I don't know, I mean I, I have, we haven't, I haven't dug that much into Rivian's business operations. This is like, there's a lot of people that are very into like the industry of cars, the businesses and The Capexes and all that. I'm like, is their product any good or not is what I really care about. And when I know people that are that, that own Rivians and drive them, you know, they're, they're sold. They want another one. They want the next one. My friend Brad lemoned his and bought another one.

[Unknown]

Wow. You know that is Alfa Romeo.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they don't have a cult leader.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Zach Klapman]

They did all that without a cult leader.

[Unknown]

All that with just product. Mm. Let's see. Get rich or die or get rich or try dying. That is funny.

[Zach Klapman]

That's funny.

[Unknown]

Has a 420 horsepower S2000 and a Honda Beat. They're 6 foot 2 and 280. They're planning on getting an Evora 400. Is that a worse choice than an old NSX?

[Zach Klapman]

Wait, wait, a worse choice than an old NSx? And what size is this person?

[Unknown]

6 2, 280. Is that the worst? Would be better to fit the same role. I don't know what that means.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, Evora would be better than an NSX.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

The one, the one problem with the NSX's ergonomics are if you put the seat all the way back, which if you're six two you have to do, you then have to reach pretty far forward for the steering wheel.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

Because the steering wheel doesn't telescope. So that's the only real downside to being tall with an nsx. Lotuses don't have that problem.

[Unknown]

It's kind of a high seat. Also the NSX is like, I mean I'm shorter than you bike quite a bit and I always, I always feel like I'm sitting a little too high. It's not uncomfortable. Yeah, but the car has such a great like low slung cockpit.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And you feel like you could drop four more inches into it.

[Zach Klapman]

Well, when I sat on that guy's, that guy a couple weeks ago up the mountain had a NSX with some recaro seats in it and I sat in them and it was, you know about, it was about an inch lower. Boy, did it make a difference. It was only an inch, but it was a, it was an inch that mattered.

[Unknown]

Mark Harris says, what do you recommend for a titanium watch that doesn't break the bank? Depends on your budget, Mark.

[Zach Klapman]

Really depends on your budget. And I also, I'm thoroughly uninterested in titanium. I, I know people love titanium. Grand Seiko does a lot in titanium. I think titanium feels weird. I think it feels cheap. It feels almost like plastic compared to metal. And so I don't spend a lot of time looking at or thinking about titanium watches. So I actually don't have a great answer. I mean, I, I happen to have just written a column about it. Oris has a watch called the. The Pro Pilot that is. That comes in titanium and it's not hugely expensive. And Oris makes a high quality watch. I know there's a couple of titanium Tudors that are nice, but not break the bank. Is a. Is a. Is a. I understand what you're going for, but that's not a term that I can use to. I can't influence what your level of that is.

[Unknown]

He means $12.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, I mean, not break the bank could. For some people that's 50 bucks. For some people that's 10 or 12,000. And I don't want to come off as elitist by saying something is affordable that's too expensive for you.

[Unknown]

All right, here's an answer, a question I know you have an answer to, which is what's your favorite cat parenting book?

[Zach Klapman]

Catification by Jackson Galaxy.

[Unknown]

Right. All right. Rivian owner that doesn't mind not having carplay.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, I mean, I don't. It doesn't like it's. It. Not having CarPlay isn't a deal breaker because this system is good. But I would like to, you know, if I was going on a road trip, I'd probably fucking have my phone mounted on the dash running Waze, I.

[Unknown]

Think, you know, as you said, the audio integration is really good. It is just as good as CarPlay in terms of. It pauses when I get out of the car. It picks back up when I get in the car. I didn't have to reconnect at all. It was fantastic. It's really just getting the Google Maps data, the traffic data, Waze data. Getting all of those things. That can be really important when you're on a trip. Short or long. That's one of the best benefits. And Google is constantly updating. This is truly updating. But the team's probably not as large.

[Zach Klapman]

I don't like not having a start button.

[Unknown]

Yeah, it's weird. I'd get used to it, though.

[Zach Klapman]

I'd probably get used to it, but I don't actually think it fixed a problem. I think that's a solution. Looking for a problem.

[Unknown]

Well, isn't that another carryover from Tesla or. Not carryover, but like the same as the vents. They kind of mimicked it.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Getting into watches. Killer tomato. Would you buy a used but still functional Rolex or a brand new Grand Seiko or notice if the prices were the same.

[Zach Klapman]

It depends on which, which watch spoke to me. I would say that I have problem buying any used watches. I've bought lots of used watches and watches are generally pretty well taken care of and they're cheap, relatively speaking to service compared to cars. And so there's nothing wrong with buying a used watch. So if what I really wanted was a Rolex and I could afford only a used one, that wouldn't deter me at all. Grand Seiko and I'm wearing my Grand Seiko today. One of them, Grand Seiko and Rolex are. They're different vibes, they fit different, they look different, their engineering is different, their attitudes as companies are different. And you know, part of watches is sort of what you're, what speaks to you direct directly and also what speaks to the rest of the world. A Grand Seiko is a watch that says a lot of things to you, the wearer, and very little to the outside world. Whereas a Rolex is sort of almost the opposite of that. I have a bunch of different watches and I actually tend to put on a Rolex when I don't want to think about it. When I don't want to think about what watch I'm wearing, I grab the Rolex. But when I am wearing something else, I've thought about that decision. So, you know, if you're talking about one watch for everything, you probably can't go wrong with the Rolex. There are some limitations of Grand Seiko because a lot of them don't have Lume. Unless you're talking about a diver like these don't have. This one doesn't have Lume. So if you're reading the time at night a lot, that might not be something you want.

[Unknown]

Lume is never that. I mean, I haven't had a watch that with a Lume is super bright anyway. Like you, I can see the illumination.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

But if it has like a light I can hit the button on it or something. It's always much brighter.

[Zach Klapman]

Well, the, the Grand Seikos, they, there are for these, their elegant collection, which is the sport. They're sport watches but not divers. So they're meant to be sort of casual, you know, sort of right down the middle watches. It's the, it's the ones, you know, the one watch fits all sort of thing. And what they do is they have a, what they call the Zaratsu polish where it's a special ultra high polishing technique that they do on not just the case, but the hands so that they are polished so brightly that they will find any amount of available light. Light, as long as it's not pitch. Pitch black. And you'll be able to see that.

[Unknown]

It's like night vision. It just like amplifies a light source in.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. In. I mean, and it does actually, like. I mean, if you're in a. If you're. If it's pitch black, you're not going to see anything. But if you're in a pretty dark place, you can still tell the time on this watch. And that's a pretty cool thing. Yeah.

[Unknown]

Queen Glizabeth says, did you ever actually attend the 24 Hours of Sebring at Sebring or do you just know about it?

[Zach Klapman]

Well, Sebring is a 12 hour race and I have attended the 12 hours of Sebring.

[Unknown]

No, no, no, but you said there was a. Maybe this is. Remember the 24 hours of sebrings at Sebring?

[Zach Klapman]

Oh, no, I came up with that as something I wanted to do. As far as I know, it was never done. It was an all Chrysler Sebring endurance race. Sebring Raceway.

[Unknown]

Got it.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. No, we never did it, but I think it would be a great time.

[Unknown]

Hilarious.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. Can we. I mean, we should probably do a collab event with Cletus.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Zach Klapman]

It would be the 12 hours of Sebring and it's all Chrysler Sebrings.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Zach Klapman]

We could probably just use his racetrack.

[Unknown]

For that for sure. And then it's 12 hours of sebrings and it's. You're not infringing on the copyright of 12 Hours of Sebring.

[Zach Klapman]

Good point.

[Unknown]

Do we see a widening gap in the market for a lightweight enthusiast to EV in the future?

[Zach Klapman]

I don't think the people who are looking for lightweight enthusiast cars right now are looking for those cars to be EVs. I think those can be separate things and we don't need them to be the same thing. But I'm looking forward to seeing what the electric Boxster and Cayman will be. I think that's our best hope short term.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Zach Klapman]

For a fun EV sport sports car. Unless Hyundai drops a big bomb on us, which they might do. That. That concept car they had that looked like the Giugiaro.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I know.

[Zach Klapman]

You know, 75, 4, whatever the. It was, whatever that is. You put an ionic 5N powertrain in that. Let's go. Yeah, that would be sick. If you put that in with like a handbrake, that would be a good tie.

[Unknown]

Very fun. Hazman Says I'm all for ev experiment. Any reason to not consider a lucid over the tycoon?

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, I don't want one. I mean, literally. Look at that. Whoa, whoa. That is that. I wonder if the camera caught that. Under the bridge on a flatbed was what looked to be like a late teens, early 20s Rolls Royce ghost.

[Unknown]

Like pebble beach level, but with like a brushed metal hood. Yeah, that was a Rolls Royce white.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, the bare metal, that was Rolls Royce at the time. The silver Ghost. That was the thing. Yeah.

[Unknown]

Okay. Yeah. You don't want to lose it.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. Dude, there's just like. There's stuff about lucids that I would hate. Hate every day. The door locks.

[Unknown]

Yep.

[Zach Klapman]

You know, like there's. There's some things those cars do really, really well, but there's other things that would make me want to fucking drive that car off a cliff.

[Unknown]

Well, and the door thing is you're gonna interact with that every time you drive. Whereas the car's dynamic ability, which is amazing, you're not gonna interact with. Cause you're just driving it around town and you won't appreciate it.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And like the navigation has some problems. It also doesn't have carplay. You'd be much more inclined to mount your phone.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

A lot of the daily living of that car outside of the actual physical comfort of it would be a little bit annoying.

[Zach Klapman]

We've enjoyed taking those cars on road trips. I think they're a really good road trip ev, but it hasn't been outstanding for me in daily use. It doesn't do anything in everyday driving. That blows my mind.

[Unknown]

Jake Shores wants to know about Avi 8 watches. He's getting a lot of ads for them. Have you heard of them?

[Zach Klapman]

Anything you're getting that much advertising for, you don't want. It's a very heavy, heavily aviation inspired thing. The watches look like, you know, cockpit gauges. And I don't know much about them. I've seen the ads. They look a little corny. If you really want an aviation themed watch, there's a million. I mean, pilot's watches are a major watch category. You've got divers, chronographs, pilot watches and dress watches and field watches, or those are your main kind of categories. I'm sure I'm forgetting one, but I mean, they're probably not like total. That's the front one again, man. GoPro 13 black, letting us down 2X. That's on 1080.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

It's not even shooting 4K.

[Unknown]

That's not good.

[Zach Klapman]

Oh, we're gonna have to return you, huh, baby?

[Unknown]

That's not good.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. If you want to.

[Unknown]

If you.

[Zach Klapman]

If you really want a pilot's watch that looks like a gauge, I recommend Bell and Ross. They make the one. The square cases. They really look like sort of like helicopter gauge.

[Unknown]

Oh, that's cool.

[Zach Klapman]

Almost like you could take the strap off and mount it on the dash, that kind of thing. They make a cool piece. I like those. Yeah. I'm a fan of Bell and Ross.

[Unknown]

Ryan Fitzgerald says, do we think headlights are too goddamn bright?

[Zach Klapman]

Yes.

[Unknown]

Yes. And proven that they're starting to study it. They're really looking into it. Alana Sher wrote a really great article for Car and Driver about that problem and why it's come about with LEDs. So she has much more detail, but the answer is definitely.

[Zach Klapman]

Remember when she text. I texted her when I was like talking about the Cyber Cab launch event and I was like, your magazine has up by covering this face value. And she's like, I can't control the magazine, but I'm writing a column calling on all of it, which is in this month's Car and Driver print. You can also get it digitally on Apple News. And she, she was right. She did do that.

[Unknown]

Nice.

[Zach Klapman]

She did call them out. What was words. The other thing about. Oh, headlights. So this car. Do you drive it at night much? No, this car has very aggressive. You know, this morning when I came to pick you up, it was so foggy. This, the, the, the turning response of the headlights in this are very good. I got a little social video of it.

[Unknown]

Cool.

[Zach Klapman]

And. And also the. It does the thing where it blocks out oncoming so it doesn't blind oncoming.

[Unknown]

That's fantastic.

[Zach Klapman]

So it's the kind of thing you. I needed a really foggy day to see it, like do it because you could see the bits it like blocks out.

[Unknown]

Well, that's one of the arguments for, you know, the laser lights you can get in Europe. The proponents of it say what's nice is it can turn off the sections of the headlights very accurately so it won't shine it on coming.

[Zach Klapman]

I'm pretty sure this has that.

[Unknown]

No, it's not. Maybe. I don't know. I didn't think they were. I should Google. I didn't think the laser lights were approved in North America yet. But that may be an old fact.

[Zach Klapman]

This has a thing. I could see it through the fog where it turned off like pixels of headlights.

[Unknown]

Okay. Because it seems like the LEDs, a lot of companies have this problem. I Think Tesla is the most notorious, but that also may just be because there's more model threes on the road than like any other car. And the headlights seem to misaligned, but there is a sparkle to them. The number of Teslas I flash my high beams at and then they show me that they're only using low beams is startling. And it's every week. So their lights are LEDs, seem misaligned and they are extremely bright and annoying for anyone heading towards them. And BMW, now they have all four headlights are on all the time. It's not just the high beams that activate that, they're very bright. Should you be on a hill that directs their beam right into your eyeballs. Would we have David Freiberger or Mike Finnegan on the show? Totally, absolutely. I would love to talk to those guys. I don't think they were forbidden from coming on either by Motor Trans and it's just more of a location situation. Auto Joe, YouTube, any tips for getting OEMs to loan me a press car when I have a new channel? I have 1,000 subscribers and I'm trying to source cars to review from a local used car dealership and a rental company who both lend me vehicles.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, that's what you do, get creative. That's it. Manufacturers aren't going to pay any attention to you until you're maybe, I don't know, 20, 30,000 subscribers. You could start, you know, it's a catch 22, right? You need cars to make content, but you need content to get cars. And so what it's all about in the very beginning, when you're first starting is being creative in sourcing cars from interesting places. But there, you know, there isn't a secret to it. You just need to introduce yourself and demonstrate what value you will add to their media push.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Zach Klapman]

So, you know, it doesn't mean you have to suck up to them. It doesn't mean you have to promise to ignore bad things about the car or any of that shit. It just means that you need to say, I've got this many eyeballs that I want to bring to your product and here's why. I am worthy of your company's time and the loan of this car. But, but without an audience, that's going to be a very uphill battle and I imagine a lot of people are not going to get back to you. So.

[Unknown]

And I think you're climbing the right way. You can rent, you can go used car dealership, then you can also approach new car dealerships and they might loan you the cars for a few hours, especially if you're going for lower spec, non high power things that they don't think are going to be a risk to give to this person who's in this position. And then eventually, you know, if you review a bunch of Hondas like they may speak to Honda regional or you could send those video links, if the videos did well, to Honda press and say, hey, here's my content I've made with cars from local Honda dealerships. You know, can you move to the press car list?

[Zach Klapman]

Three minutes remaining.

[Unknown]

Okay, I want to mod my Camaro SS1 LE for next year's track season. The car is bone stock. Other than pads, rotors and alignment, what would we recommend as the first track specific mods? He's thinking sway bars, but curious what we are going to say. Well, I go tires first. Yeah. And then you could go sway bars.

[Zach Klapman]

I would go tires first as well. I think when you're talking about how you're going to mod your car, you shouldn't think about it as what should I change? You should think about it as what attribute of my car do I want to change? Not what part. You know, you figure out what part to change. Once you figure out, I want the car to turn in harder, I want the car to stop better, I want the car to be louder. You think about what, what attribute of the car you want to change and then you find a part or a setup that gets you to that goal. So ask yourself, is there anything that you don't like about the car now? Does it, does it not have enough grip? Does it have too soft or firm of a ride? Does it not respond to certain inputs? And if you, you can then find parts or adjustments you can make that can serve those needs.

[Unknown]

I completely agree with that. That is perfect. I would also add you can start approaching reliability before you approach performance. Like if you do tires, which will address a lot of things, you can then go, oh, does my oil get hot? Should I add an oil cooler or a trans cooler? Because if one of those things goes bad, it's going to cost you a lot of money to repair that. So if you spend your money on, oh, I got these sexy coilovers, but I'm boiling my oil or I'm overheating my diff, that's going to sideline you much more quickly. So I'd rather go a little slower for a longer amount of time.

[Zach Klapman]

Totally. That is our program and I'll tell you why.

[Unknown]

I know.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, because we're going to my house right. We're dropping me off at my house and I don't want to show everybody how to get to my house.

[Unknown]

Well, luckily the front camera died, so. Yeah, but I know, I know people are smart on the Internet.

[Zach Klapman]

People are smart and so that's our program. I hope you've enjoyed it. I'm sorry we did not get to go off roading in the Rivian. Hopefully that opportunity will present itself to us again later. Thank you to our patrons for such great questions and love you all. See you later.

[Unknown]

Bye.