RTR Spec 5 Review; Way-mo Problems; Odometer Rollbacks

Summary

The Smoking Tire Podcast – Episode Summary
Episode: RTR Spec 5 Review; Waymo Problems; Odometer Rollbacks
Release Date: January 2, 2026
Hosts: Matt Farah & Zack Klapman

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Main Theme & Purpose

In this lively, unscripted episode, Matt Farah and Zack Klapman dive into the world of high-performance Mustangs, autonomous vehicles in the rain, consumer car trends, and offbeat car culture. Anchored by Matt’s first-hand review of the RTR Spec 5 Mustang and his San Diego road trip, the episode weaves together news, personal anecdotes, and listener Q&A, delivering automotive insight balanced with humor, skepticism, and a dose of nostalgia.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. RTR Spec 5 Mustang Review (06:16–25:08; 36:39–37:26)

• RTR Spec 5 Overview:

  • Matt detailed his experience driving the new RTR Spec 5 Mustang, a wide-body, 850+ horsepower beast developed in partnership between RTR (Vaughn Gittin Jr.) and Ford.
  • Available at Ford dealers, positioned as a “GTD Lite”—massive power, practical interior, and a stick shift.
  • Pricing around $160k, with wild color options like "Mystichrome."

• Driving Impressions & Practicality:

  • The car is very fast, very loud (“Unlike the Spec 3, it does not have a quiet mode. It only has a loud mode.” – Matt, 11:56).
  • Suitable for a 25-year-old’s sensibilities (“It’s a 25-year-old’s loud. But most 25-year-olds don’t have 160 grand.” – Matt, 22:37).
  • Retains practicality with a usable backseat and trunk unlike the GTD.
  • Draws a lot of positive attention even at a “Richie Rich” Cars & Coffee event.

• Color Options & Collectibility:

  • Strong preference for Mystichrome paint despite the $15k upcharge, referencing the collectibility of rare colors from past Mustang generations.
  • Discussion about potential future appreciation of these “manufacturer-adjacent tuner” cars.

• RTR Bronco Mention:

  • Brief comments on the similarly modified RTR Bronco: comfortable, cool paint, but noisy in a practical highway sense due to racks/roof (10:09–11:14).

2. Waymo Self-Driving Taxis Performance in Rain (39:28–45:42)

• Real-World Experience in LA:

  • Matt describes his experience using Waymo during rainy weather—wipers operate, ride is cautious and safe.
  • One minor annoyance: Waymo drops him off in a flooded alley, demonstrating lack of awareness about safe exit locations.
  • Matt’s attempts to report routing/dropping-off problems have yet to trigger any service changes.

• Quote:
  “You just can’t be like, ‘hey, buddy, you’re in a fucking puddle.’ There should be a thing on the screen... a nudge button that would go, ‘this is not a suitable place to stop. Find the next available place to stop.’” – Matt, 41:57

• Broader Takeaways:

  • Autonomous cars are impressively safe, but still fumble nuances humans take for granted (e.g., drop-off awareness).
  • Observational note on how quickly riders adjust to riding in autonomous vehicles (“Within two or three minutes, they’re scrolling Instagram… It doesn’t do anything crazy for two minutes and they just go, ‘this is safe.’” – Matt, 45:12).

3. EPA Standards Rollback & Consumer Impacts (51:01–61:41)

• Industry Insider Input:

  • The Biden administration's proposal to relax EPA standards is dissected:
    • OEMs will save ~$1,000/car, but that’s unlikely to be passed to consumers—income will simply increase manufacturer profit margins.
    • Savings will be offset over years as fuel economy drops, causing consumers to pay more in gasoline.

• Maintenance & Technology Changes:

  • Minor consumer maintenance savings as items like active grille shutters and stop-start systems are phased out.
  • Hosts discuss the relative triviality of these savings.

• Matt’s Take:

  • Strong opinion that fuel efficiency should never regress (“How the fuck do we not understand that... these cars should probably burn less gas over time?” – Matt, 56:49).
  • Skepticism of arguments delaying efficiency progress.

4. Car Project Updates & Vespa Dreams (37:29–39:28)

• Matt discusses possibly upgrading to a new Vespa if his car auction hits certain financial thresholds, considering evolving personal transportation options as he ages.

5. Odometer Rollbacks & Restorations (107:14–108:31)

• Listener Q: Is it acceptable to “reset” an odometer on a restomod or full restoration?
  • Hosts: If a car is completely torn down and rebuilt (ala Singer or Gunther Werks), a zeroed odometer is reasonable. For less comprehensive builds, retaining the original odometer reading is often better for transparency.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Old Toyotas’ Reputation:

  • “They were trying to make a big statement in the US market about their cars, and they earned customers for fucking life doing that.” – Matt, 85:42

• On Car Meets and License Plates:

  • (Re: Montana plates on out-of-state cars): “This guy’s in San Diego, like, 2,500 miles from Montana. He’s visiting... with the hood popped in his Evo, bro.” – Matt, 96:19

• On Baywatch, Bars, and LA:

  • Humorous sidebar about a bar in LA filled with “young, hot women” that only plays Baywatch on loop, yet serves “not very good beverages” (32:35–34:33).

• On Collectors’ Paint Choices:

  • “If I was gonna spend 160 grand on this Mustang, I would 1000% have them paint it Mystichrome, ‘cause the Bronco looks extremely awesome.” – Matt, 09:15

• On Adjusting to Autonomous Cars:

  • “Almost everybody has exactly the same reaction, which is, wow, this is incredible. And then within two or three minutes, they’re scrolling on Instagram or something.” – Matt, 45:12

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Audience Q&A Highlights (63:40–108:31)

• Dream Dinner With a Chef:

  • Matt: “I would have Carl in my kitchen with me making the matzo ball soup again.”
  • Zach: “I’d probably choose Bourdain, so I could just talk to him and learn things.”

• Electric Turbo vs. Supercharger:

  • Discussion of modern electric forced induction, highlighting that electric turbos still often rely on exhaust and achieve higher psi compared to superchargers.

• Best Non-Criminal Speed Sports Cars:

  • Recommendations include vintage Ferraris, Lotus Elise, and air-cooled 911s with short gearing.

• CD Players in Modern Cars:

  • Only a handful (Lexus RC, Subaru Outback/Legacy) still offer them—an oddity in today’s tech landscape.

• Funniest “Medical” Car Rx:

  • A listener with Raynaud’s disease is advised to buy a 2004 Rolls Royce Phantom or Bentley Turbo R, the only modern cars able to direct hot air at feet and cold air above:
    “I didn’t say that this car would be affordable, just that we would find one.” – Matt, 90:45

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Additional Memorable Segments

• Watch Talk:

  • Discussion of Ulysse Nardin x Urwerk “Urfreak” ($122k watch), complications, and collecting.

• Book Recommendations:

  • Plug for Kristen Lee’s children’s book The 50 States Things That Go (47:19–48:52).
  • Matt recommends The Image (Daniel Boorstin, 1962)—“It basically talked about the problems we’re having with algorithmic news ... in 1962. It’s so crazy and so frustrating.” (80:13)

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Episode Timeline & Timestamps

• 06:16–25:08—RTR Spec 5 Mustang review, color talk, market context
• 39:28–45:42—Waymo in the rain, user experience, AV adaptation speed
• 51:01–61:41—EPA standards, trickle-down, fuel economy, climate politics
• 63:40–108:31—Patreon Q&A, including odometer rollbacks, “medical” car needs, electric forced induction, best analog sports cars, and more

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Bottom Line:
Packed with humor, opinions, and sharp insight, this episode spotlights the cutting edge and quirks of car culture—whether living with a thundering RTR Mustang, dodging puddles in a self-driving Waymo, or dreaming about Vespas and future-friendly policies. A satisfying listen for enthusiasts and everyday drivers alike.

Transcript

[A]

What up, everybody? Welcome to the Smoking Tire Podcast. Today's episode is brought to you by off the Record. Look, the holidays is not the best time to be driving spiritedly, right? There's drunks out there. Your uncle is probably one of them. So be safe this holiday season. But if you get in a pickle, if you're going a little too fast and get up in a jam because the officers want to raise some holiday revenue, off the Record is here for you. They will set you up with a qualified attorney in the jurisdiction where you you got that ticket, and they will fight it on your behalf. All you have to do is go to offtherecord.com TST input some crucial information about yourself and what happened, and they will go to work and then you won't hear from them for a while. And then you'll probably get a text that I love to get where it's just. Who is that? Oh, it's off the Record. Your ticket was completely dismissed. A lot of times that does happen. Sometimes it's not quite that awesome, but usually they have very good news. So. Offtherecord.com TST Remember that if you get pulled over now and forever. All right? On this episode of the show, I went down to a car show in San Diego with the RTR Spec 5 Mustang, took a few waymos in the rain and read a children's book. It's the Smoking Tire Podcast. Let's go.

[B]

How's your whole.

[A]

Looking at me.

[B]

How are you feeling? Same.

[A]

This is today, this Sunday. So this is literally week three. I flew home from Texas and felt like crap on this day three weeks ago. I would say I'm start. It's better. I would say better. I haven't since the day you told me to stop taking Mucinex, which is what, Thursday? And it's Sunday. Definitely coughing still, but like, I don't know, maybe a little less. Wow. There's like. That's biker fucking 12 o' clock boys going by outside. That's more. That's a bigger group of motorcycles than I think I've ever heard go by the studio.

[B]

Yeah, we don't. They don't. The big groups that ride around Venice and Santa Monica, they don't come through here, which is a bummer.

[A]

They're probably on their way there.

[B]

I like, I like the wheelie group. I'm here for it.

[A]

Yeah, they, they normally they roll up Slauson, not Centinella, but that's true. Hi, everybody. Yes, well, this, this will be going out before New Year's So I hope you had a good Christmas. Did you have a. Did you do a thing for Christmas?

[B]

We tried to do a thing. What happened? Ended up. Well, we wanted to go like rent a cabin up in the mountains for the snow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's such a warm winter. It didn't snow strangely.

[A]

It snowed on Mount Baldy.

[B]

It started 8,000ft.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So we couldn't find a cabin to rent at 8,000ft. That's like.

[A]

Are there any cabins to rent at 8,000ft?

[B]

I think in Mammoth Lakes you can, but they're all going to be super booked because everyone wants to go skiing. Yeah.

[A]

They got nothing in like Idyllwild or that. That's like five, right?

[B]

It is.

[A]

I had.

[B]

I found a great map. I got a map that does topogr and elevation using Google Calendar. We were doing homework. We were really trying using Google Maps.

[A]

You said Google Calendar.

[B]

Oh, you're right. Sorry.

[A]

You're right.

[B]

It's like topography laid over Google Maps.

[A]

What do you think topography and Google Calendar would look like?

[B]

Just wondering the highs and lows of the week, I guess. You know, the valley would be Wednesday.

[A]

The topographical map of your mood. It would tie into your whoop strap or something.

[B]

Actually, I guess it would be starting on Monday. It's a climb.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then on Friday it's a cliff that falls into a nice pool. And then you just chill and then you go back up the mountain for Sisyphusian.

[A]

So you'd have to go to Mammoth Lakes or like Tahoe or something to get even.

[B]

Tahoe got snow. But when we were looking for houses that week, it was saying that Tahoe was gonna be like 35 degrees at night. It cooled off for them, luckily and they got pretty hammered good. Mammoth got so much snow, they closed the mountain. Yesterday.

[A]

There was an avalanche at. Was it at Mammoth? I think it was at Mammoth.

[B]

I think so.

[A]

At a couple. And like two ski patrol guys died, I think. Yeah, it was bad. Yeah.

[B]

They got. I mean, I saw a video of the flakes falling in Mammoth. Yeah. It looked like what usually see in Utah. Huge, huge snowflakes.

[A]

I have never seen more snow in my life than Mammoth after a big snowstorm. I went up there with Steinman once after like a fucking dump dump. And I shit you not, we almost couldn't find the house. You could. You couldn't see the house. There was nothing. Everything was buried. You couldn't see. You know, they were. They had to like cut tunnels into like the gas stations and stuff. Like you just, you're just driving through a fucking 20 foot deep wall of snow. It was the wildest shit I've ever seen.

[B]

That's cool. It's cool if you get there once they've cut all the trails.

[A]

Yeah, it was crazy.

[B]

Oh yeah. Two injured in an avalanche at Mammoth yesterday.

[A]

Oh, good they didn't die.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I think they got a couple of feet per day. So anyway, we, we looked around for like, how far are we willing to drive? And it was just gonna be cold and rainy, which is like the worst. So we didn't do anything.

[A]

Yeah, might as well be here. It'll be mild and rainy.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

It was a delightful rain in Los Angeles. I didn't do. I say I didn't do shit, but what I mean is I didn't do shit for work. I did a lot of unexpected entertaining.

[B]

Yeah, you did.

[A]

I cooked a brunch and a dinner for like 10 people each at my house, fucking like two nights in a row. And yeah, it was a lot. I did a lot of home economics.

[B]

You did. I haven't heard that term in such a long time.

[A]

Yeah, it wasn't really economics. It was just cooking. Yeah, cooking and spending is what it was.

[B]

Yeah. You're feeding the town.

[A]

Yeah. And now my nephew Cole is here. So fortunately he's 17 and into photography and cars. So this is like a pretty easy one for me. Fairly light lift, but I'm playing tour guide uncle. So I took him to Rancho Santa Fe Cars and Coffee yesterday, which is a great. Cars and coffee down in like north of San Diego. I posted zero pictures.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I posted zero pictures. A lot of people posted pictures and took pictures of the RTR Spec 5 Mustang that I drove down there, which I did send you a picture of the car that I took on a different day. But it is a pretty cool looking car. It's basically RTR now has a partnership with Ford where it is an aftermarket company, but you can buy them at some Ford dealers. Sort of like a Roush or a Saleen would be. Which is a pretty cool. I mean, we love J.R. and Vaughn Gittin Jr. Whose company this is and like very proud of him. And they have the spec 3, which is sort of the tuner Mustang you'd expect. Full suspension, cool wheels, front rear fascia, some graphics and a big ass supercharger. That's the tuner Mustang you expect. And Zach did a video with it.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

So full, full disclosure, they store these marketing vehicles at Westside, so I don't. They didn't I didn't even tell them I was gonna be talking about this car. I asked if I could borrow it to go to Cars and coffee. And I didn't even say so. I'm gonna say whatever I wanna say about this car. But I benefit financially from this car's presence directly. They pay me to store the cars here and my guys to deliver them to other people. So if you think that means I won't criticize the car, you don't know me very well, but there's your disclaimer. I was talking about that. Can you be objective to someone else? And I was talking to another journalist and they were like, farah, I have seen you take their flight, take their hotel, take their wine, and then tell them their car sucks directly to their face. I've seen that before. Don't tell me the flight is gonna buy us here. Anyway. These guys pay me every month to park the cars here, so. The Spec 3 Zach drove. You should go watch that video. The Spec 5 is a little crazier because it is a full wide body car. It also has huge brakes. It also has a giant supercharger. It makes even more horsepower. This one's like 850 horsepower. And it's kind of like a GTD Lite. That's sort of what they're going for, the wide body and the different geometries. Now, it doesn't have inboard suspension. This is not a Multimatic product. But it's kind of like halfway to a GTD in terms of. It sort of has a GTD esque look. It has a similar power figure and similar power delivery, but it's a stick and you keep your backseat and you keep your trunk. So like, you know. And what is the exact price? Does it have a price on the website? I want to say it's like 160 grand. Yeah, I think it's 160 grand. Yeah. Okay. And then from there you can get them painted like crazy colors. Like this one that I'm actually. This one is 002. It's silver. But the Bronco, the RTR Bronco that we have that Glucker's driving this week is Mystichrome. And if I was going to get an RTR car, I would spend the money to paint a Mystichrome. It looks so fucking cool. It's very, very person. And I would. If I was gonna spend 160 grand on this Mustang, I would 1000% have them paint it fucking Mystichrome. Cause the Bronco looks extremely awesome. Yeah. That's it.

[B]

That's cool.

[A]

Yeah, the Bronco looks super cool. And that's the one. And it rides really, really nice on the road. I delivered it to Glucker myself, which is a funny thing for me to be doing, but I did it and it rides really nice. But those racks and stuff they put on it, which I'm sure are very useful when you're going camping. Man, them motherfuckers whistle at 70 miles an hour.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Oh, boy, do they whistle. Wow. All that stuff does.

[B]

That car does not need to be.

[A]

Louder on the highway either. Yeah. Cause the roof is already like just like, you know, legoed together, basically. It's whistley, I think. But, you know, RTR didn't make the roof, but it just is what it is.

[B]

I never thought. Because I've seen there's a car near your house. Actually it was very clean. Bronco driving around with the gas cans, you know, bolted to the side and everything on the car was spick and span clean.

[A]

Actually. If you're out there, shout out to that dude. He's a fan.

[B]

Oh, he is.

[A]

Yeah. He. That guy also has a cool Colorado Chevy. Colorado. That's like, you know, those are good and stuff. He's got three or four different rigs.

[B]

I just wonder if those cans whistle on the highway. Like.

[A]

Yeah, they do. Oh, yeah. The rack on my safari whistled like they. All that shit all does. Yeah. It's not great. I mean, it serves a function, but like, it's not great.

[B]

We can start a new business that makes little wings that go on gas cans mounted to the sides of trucks.

[A]

It's like the wind buckle, the arrow things on the.

[B]

It's like the Thule rack on the front, but now it's a tiny one.

[A]

Oh, man. But here it's like, that's the problem for half the folks who have that stuff. And I'm not saying the guy who lives in my neighborhood has that, but half those people, you know, you want it, it's got to look like that. You don't want. You don't want it to look. You don't want to put arrow things on there.

[B]

Just little, little fins. Yeah, that's true.

[A]

Yeah. It's just. That's the problem. You just can't go. Can't go fast without a car. Wow. So anyway, we drove the, we drove this Spec 5 down there. It is very fast. It's very loud. Unlike the Spec 3, it does not have a quiet mode. It only has a loud mode. And so, you know, the two hour highway Drive down there was. I was fine for me, but it was a lot for Hannah. A lot of loud. But like, essentially this is. And yeah, 170,000, $160,000 plus tax or whatever is a ton of money for a Mustang. But if you want into a gtd, you're lucky if it starts with a three. Wow. Yeah, probably at this point, I mean, maybe it starts with a 4, I don't know. But like, even just MSRP, if you could get one, it's a 3. 3 something for a GTD. So this is halfway, folks. We gotta take a break from the action real quick. For fitbod sponsoring us today. Dude, I work out a lot. I work out seven days a week. I think I'm a junkie at this point. 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[B]

I will say that this looks because the Spec 3 I drove of looked like something from the outside that you could modify for pretty, you know, not too much money. Like if you put a little deck spoiler on your Mustang GT and some other stuff because it's underneath. It's the engine. It's all the other things.

[A]

Parts list for the Spec 3 though. It's pretty long. It's really expensive.

[B]

But the things you see are there's like six things that you actually really notice.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Whereas this with the fenders and stuff like it clearly is different.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And I mean this also has a very long parts list. 870 horsepower. What is the suspension?

[A]

There it is. RTR tactical performance adjustable coilovers, sway bars, two piece front rotors, 20 inch forged wheels, PS4s tires.

[B]

I wonder if it's the same suspension you get. Because the Spec 3 also was tactical performance adjustable stuff. I'm just curious. I was curious if it was different spring rate or whatever. I'm sure it's damped and everything for this car.

[A]

Yeah, I think the. They changed the geometry. Or is it just much wider wheels.

[B]

305 and 315. I have to go back and look at the notes to see what the other one is. Google it.

[A]

It might just be much wider wheels. But I'll tell you what, whatever the setup was, the alignment wasn't too bad. So it actually like tracked pretty straight. It wasn't annoying.

[B]

Yeah. Same with the spec 3.

[A]

I think maybe I need to like.

[B]

Yeah, you are right. The this. These tires are. And wheels are much wider than these. The spec 3 is 275front, 295 rear. So.

[A]

So that's where it is. Yep, that's where it goes. So. But it was pretty cool. And like I mean you know that. That cars and coffee is like pretty heavy hitter down there. It's. It's a lot of Richie Rich and then also a lot of solid creativity and stuff. And so to get that much attention in a Mustang is good work for rtr. People are really digging it and it is, you know, in terms of actually using it as a car if you wanted it to like be your car. Like this could be your car. I hope there's maybe a way to make it a little quieter at this power level. Maybe it's not. But like like I wouldn't want it to be my car all the time at this volume.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's loud. It's a 25 year old's loud. But most 25 year olds don't have 160 grand for something like this. It drives really nice. It really does. I mean, it's still fucking huge because it's a Mustang, but it doesn't have a lot of bad behaviors. And it's got a shitload of torque, so you can lug it down to 1200rpm in traffic, just leave it in second, whatever. It's fine. And it's obviously more practical than an actual GTD is with a back seat and a real trunk that's not impacted. So it was pretty cool. I think it looks if you were flipping through the colors before, and I think some of the colors look better than others. The press car being silver really shows off because the wide body panels are kind of like, oh, look, color shift paint. Mystichrome 15K.

[B]

Urban bamboozle.

[A]

I don't know what that is.

[B]

I didn't either, so I had to search it and is that.

[A]

It's like a Mustang rtr. Let's see. Whoa. It's like the. This is like the green version of mystichrome.

[B]

Yep. And it's got some yellow when the sun hits it, and then it goes.

[A]

To green, you know, it's not bad, actually.

[B]

It's pretty cool.

[A]

I kind of dig it. Yeah, I think. I think I'd like it better on a smaller car. I think it's a lot on a big car like this, but like, imagine it on like a fucking clown shoe.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

How sick that would be, right?

[B]

That'd be kind of cool because. Yeah. Where the. Where the sun hits it, it's a little bit nicer looking than that. Was it Phoenix yellow? That was a little bit more baby vomit, in my opinion. This is a little bit nicer. But the Mystichrome is so cool.

[A]

Mystichrome is fabulous. I mean, that color looks great. Still, if I was going 160, I'd go 185 for the mystichrome. And I tell you what, I bet you'd get your money back for it too. I bet you. You know, I don't know if this. I mean, I'm sure something like this will depreciate in the short term, right? Maybe like a Yenko. You know, nobody gave two shits about Yenkos for a while, and now they're a million bucks. And so this is sort of that kind of thing. The manufacturer adjacen sort of tuner thing. These may be appreciated down the road. Either way, they drive really nice right now. But I bet you that option returns itself.

[B]

Yeah, probably because it's the rarest color on the Terminators and stuff, right? For sure.

[A]

Oh yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. For sure. And the most desirable.

[B]

I don't know, maybe that. Maybe that fan I met who has the mystichrome Terminator decides he he wants to sell it because it's not a great LA car but he wants to go to good home. Zach Clapman would give it a good home.

[A]

You should if you can get yourself, if you can get your hands on a Mystichrome Terminator. Now someone's Mystichrome is the Gen 2 color. Mystic is the Gen 1. They did two generations of it and the Ford people get real in a tizzy because I just call both Mystic Chrome and they're not exactly the same color but they're close. Okay folks, one more break because Cash app is in the house. Look, there are all of these scams like through text messages and emails and all that going on and when you are looking out for people like maybe your parents if they are actually like boomer age and clicking on texts a lot. My mother in law fell for that. You have a package at the UP guest store one. Oh boy. But Cash app has your back. They've got card security, keeping your money safe from fraud with all the protections that you would expect because the holidays are about finding the perfect gift. But not every deal is actually what it seems. Scammers are getting really creative to trick people into sharing their payment info through methods like fake shopping sites and giveaways that are too good to be true. Oh man. I was at breakfast the other day with our friend who is another automotive journalist who we love. He just told me he got hit with this. Someone in a Facebook group that he's in shared a link and said there was a great deal on alpinestars stuff. They were having a sale and he went and filled his cart and clicked buy put all his information. Well it turns out it was a fake alpinestars site. They had totally mirrored the site and yeah, fortunately he was able to get his money back. But if you had Cash app it would be a no brainer. Their 247 fraud monitoring helps detect and alert you for unusual card activity should someone gain access to your card. So you can act fast if something seems off. You can also lock or unlock your Cash app card instantly right in the app for extra control and peace of mind. You can stay one step ahead of scams this season and keep your money secured with Cash App. And for a limited time only, new Cash App customers can use the exclusive TST code to earn some additional cash. For real Download Cash App use our exclusive referral code Secure10. Send $5 to a friend within 14 days and you'll get $10 dropped into your account. Terms apply. That's money. That's Cash App. Cash App is a financial services platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App's bank partner Prepaid debit cards issued by Sutton bank member FDIC Promotions provided by Cash App, a block and company brand. Visit CashApp LegalPodcast for full disclosures and last but somehow most important, It's Smalls. Smalls as Smalls is cat food. And I am a cat person. I'm a cat obsessive. I care more about my cats than I do about cars. They're basically my children. My whole house is set up for them. I worry about them constantly. I basically have cat Stockholm syndrome and they provide the vast majority of entertainment in my life as well. And Monty, my young one, is a very, very picky eater. He has decided that if he doesn't get a new food every second or third feeding, that that is it. But Smalls. Smalls is the cat food that Monty is into. He has now gone four days straight on Smalls. It's a new record. That's like four, that's eight feedings in a row on one food is a new record for Smalls. That's amazing. This cat is the pickiest eater ever. And I fall for he doesn't want to eat and then I give him another food. I waste so much cat food because he doesn't want it. But Smalls is so far the winner, right? It is. And you can start with smalls very easily. Smalls.com Tire Smalls Cat food is protein packed recipes made with preservative free ingredients you'd find in your own fridge. And it's delivered right to your door. Which is why cats.com named Smalls their best overall cat food. And starting is really easy. All you do is share information about your cat's diet, health and food preferences. And Smalls puts together a sampler for your cat so you don't have to pick between random brands. They have the sampler pack. You try it out, you know what Monty or your Monty wants to eat. And Smalls has the right food to satisfy any cat's craving. And man, he's in. My other three cats are also in as well. But they are much more flexible. They'll eat anything that's like medium delicious. And Smalls appears to be very delicious, which is good. But they will eat it. But I got the picky eater and that's I. What? What's up? So it makes my life less stressful and I waste less cat food and it makes Monty's breath less stinky too. What are you waiting for? Give your cat the food they deserve for a limited time. You are a smoking tire podcast listener. So you can get 60% off your first order plus free shipping when you head to smalls.com tire that's 60% off your first order plus free shipping when you head to smalls.com and now back to the show. Mr. Chrome looks better. But I like the 96 Cobra better than I like the. I don't like new edge Mustangs.

[B]

Gotcha.

[A]

They don't do it for me.

[B]

Yeah, I get it. I think. I think the 90s car is a better looking car overall. It's also just like that more organic shape I always like. It's just when I see that lower front valence that tells me Terminator it's the only. It just snaps in my head and I like it, you know? No.

[A]

You have a Pavlovian response to the 0304 front bumper of the Mustang.

[B]

No one is watching Baywatch for the acting, believe me. And that's what that is.

[A]

Holy shit. You just dove into my head because I went to Chucho last night. You know Chucho? Dave and Sabrina's bar.

[B]

If you're in la, I've not been there.

[A]

Go to El Chucho. I talk about my family's restaurant. Bluey's in Venice on the west side. Venice and Santa Monica. Best fucking breakfast burrito in Los Angeles. Yeah, Especially now that Bill's gone.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Bill's is the only. Was the one that was close. Now nobody's closed. Go to Bluey's and get a breakfast burrito. They own this bar next door called El Chucho and on the TVs it's a very small bar and we went there the other night last. Was it last night? Yes, it was. It was last night for someone's birthday party. Stop. Didn't say hi. And they've got a new thing where they are only playing Baywatch on the television. And that's it. They will only play Maywatch the whole time. Which I think is a problem for me because what was the ratio of.

[B]

Genders attending this bar? I'm just curious.

[A]

This place was full of Hot girls.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Which is apparently, I had to be. I was like. I guess womansplained by Jillian that I'm just old and don't get it. Which is fine. But. So here's the thing with this bar. This bar only serves beer and wine and only serves, like, biodynamic beer and wine and alcoholic kombucha and stuff like that. And to be perfectly honest with you, as much as I love the two people running it who own the place, I've never had a tasty beverage there. And I've had many beverages there. Okay.

[B]

Everything's the funniest ad for this place. You're like, check it out. And then next paragraph. No, no, the beverages are not very good.

[A]

But it is full of young, hot women every time I've been there. I don't. Is that, like, a thing? And it's like. It's not like, a great space. It's like a tiny little box, and a pool table takes up half of it. And most of the square footage of the place is literally stools on the side sidewalk. Which, again, fine. But, like, what is drawing that crowd to this place?

[B]

Well, I think the area it's in is. It's flanked by a mix of houses and apartment buildings. Like, that might sound dumb to people, but, like, in la, there's places where it's just apartments, places where it's just houses. This has both. I think there's a lot of population density there. And so to have a place that you can walk to, because the whole neighborhood north of that. That street is kind of expensive. And if it's a house, it's really expensive.

[A]

There's not a lot of bars, I guess in that area.

[B]

There's not.

[A]

But so everyone.

[B]

So it's the one magnet. And if it's, like, kind of aimed at being healthy, that helps.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And there you go.

[A]

Yeah. But, I mean, I'm impressed. I am impressed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I have yet to have a tasty beverage, though, which is kind of funny.

[B]

They seem to bring in the. What is it? The wine? Like, they don't put nitrites in wine in Europe. Right?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

And that's one of the differences. Just bring that in. Because the wine still tastes good, which.

[A]

Is just crazy, because next door, they make the most delicious food, the most delicious coffee, the most delicious smoothies. They know what good is.

[B]

You gotta ask him next time you see him. I'll have to ask about the choices.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know why I started with that. Oh, because of Baywatch. So Baywatch is on the tv. Here's what's depressing about that. I watch Baywatch, you know, on mute for three to four minutes. Right. I was. Because I was.

[B]

I watched it on mute for years.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

I continue.

[A]

And man, you know, I really. It's. It's like 30 something years old. It's like night. And.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I knew the name of every single actor on Baywatch.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. I hadn't accessed that. Any of those names in quite a long time time, you know, other than Pamela Anderson. But like, wow, I had thought. I had not thought about David Charvet in a while. Exactly.

[B]

Who does he play like?

[A]

Oh, he's like. He's the young guy on Baywatch with his hair. With the. With like what you would call the butt cut.

[B]

Oh, your memory is amazing. Like, not only.

[A]

This was last night.

[B]

No.

[A]

But you.

[B]

Like. I watched that show as a young person and I know three names from that show, and one of them is not Dave Schwartz. Sharpay.

[A]

It's. Yeah. Well, it's.

[B]

Yeah. Couldn't tell you. And I watched it with sound on and I was like, oh, the plot and the guy who's the cop, and they spun that off into Pacific blue.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And all that stuff. But I don't know the names of the people.

[A]

That was crazy. And I. I was ashamed. I was ashamed for knowing that.

[B]

I think your brain is just a really impressive sponge.

[A]

It's just weird. Some things don't stick at all.

[B]

Sarah and I went to Some of those Things are Important to Ramen last night. And. And I was like, oh, we haven't been here in a while. And she goes. She looks at me and she goes, we were here last year. And I said, we were. And we ate dinner. And the whole time she's just. She's like, you really don't remember eating here with me, do you? I was like, I have no recollection. It must have been five years ago. She. No, no, no. 20, 24. So that's what my brain's doing.

[A]

So anyway, wrap it up. This. This Spec 5 thing is pretty cool. I don't. I don't. If there's. If there's a demand for. If you guys want us to make a video with. We can make a video, I think, in some of these colors where the blade is a little less contrasty. I think it looks really good. I think it looks really good in the dark colors and stuff. I don't know, the bright colors. I might try to paint more of the black stuff, but I think it looks nice in general, and it's loud and it's fast. It was a good time.

[B]

They do pts. If you could do colored clear coat over the carbon, like if you had one of the bright blues, that contrast is kind of aggressive. But if you could do colored clear over it.

[A]

Yeah. Maybe red.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It was fun. I like jr. I think he. I think he builds a fun car.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The. That was fun. I'm having a good time on this Vespa, too. The new 310. This gonna be expensive. We're talking about the auction tomorrow because my car's gonna be done. I'm not gonna say it out loud. You can't jinx these kinds of things.

[B]

Things.

[A]

But I'm going to write it down where if the car hits a certain number, I'm going to get the new Vespa, you know?

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It's cool.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's got to be. It's got to hit the certain number. We're not going to just spend frivolously. We have other things to do with that money. But, man, the new Vespa, you got to put.

[B]

You can write it down and put an envelope and just leave it on the table here.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And then we'll open it after the auction. I'll put. You know, do what I'll do. I'll make levels. Like, if it gets to this, we'll do this. You know, if it gets to this, we'll get a nice dinner. If it gets to this, you know, we'll do something. We'll do something really cool. We'll go take, like an overnight somewhere. If it gets to this, you know, I'm buy a Vespa.

[B]

Nice. I like that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Treat yourself.

[A]

And then I could either sell the old Vespa or teach Hannah to ride it, and she. And we could Vespa together, which I think would be fun. We could also, like, we could double up on this Vespa. It's enough power to do that.

[B]

But, like, you know, she would probably like riding around. It's like, it's. It's shrinking. The pow.

[A]

We did it in. We Vespa'd in Nantucket. I have seen her Vespa, but she. But those were like fucking 50s or something.

[B]

Does she. But does she like the movement of it? The freedom of it?

[A]

You know, I don't know if she would like it in Los Angeles. I think in Nantucket was different, but, like, I don't know, maybe we get a little trailer and tow the Vespas somewhere, then scoot around Tow them to Ice Race. We're gonna be old soon. We gotta find.

[B]

Yeah, that's true. Yeah.

[A]

We need to figure out what our old activity is going to be.

[B]

Vesping. Vesping.

[A]

It could be. There's fucking worse things. People tow around weird shit behind big ass motorhomes.

[B]

Totally makes sense. You park the motorhome, you gotta run around.

[A]

Yeah, I mean the POW would be a lovely thing to tow around too, but it was fucking pissing rain so not much got done. Although that Spec 5 was a good time in the rain. I tried a Waymo in the rain. First off, their wipers turn on, which is purely for your comfort really.

[B]

Is there no camera behind the windshield? Like, you know, most cars have that forward facing radar.

[A]

Yeah, that's a good point. I didn't think about the fact that the wiper would have to clear. Would be clearing that camera. Okay, you're right. I'll have to look at that a lot. Just, can you pull up a Waymo. Let's pull up a photo of a Waymo. Let's see if. Ooh, type Waymo rain. And let's see if we get an image of one with wiper streaks and we can. Let's just see if we can get. Can you show wipers and do wipers? This is a tough mission to do it in real time. I think it's possible that the wiper could clear one of the cameras though. That's possible. Plausible for sure. Either way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It was very good at driving. It was very cautious. It saw everything. It basically in a 15 minute ride. And anecdote isn't data, obviously, but the data says they're safe drivers in the rain. My experience was it drove perfectly safely in the rain. However, I took it to my office and as I say over and over, it drops me off in the back by the trash.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Which. Oh boy. When it rains. Okay, that alley.

[B]

How's the drainage?

[A]

Yeah, so the alley. So fortunately, you know, fortunately I was sitting in the back, not the front, and I was able to, you know, crawl across to the other side where there was not a huge puddle. Oh.

[B]

Cause if you had gotten out on the seat you were in, if I.

[A]

Had just opened the door, I would have stepped into a puddle. That way was fucking deep, deep. It would have gone into my shoe from the top. Oh, yeah. Fortunately I shimmied across to the other side and I was. And that side, it was not fully dry, but it was like, you know, maybe an inch. Yeah, yeah. So you can't, you just can't be like, hey, buddy, you're in a fucking puddle.

[B]

That's a great point. They need sensors for that.

[A]

There should be a thing on the screen. That sensor as like nudge. You know, like a nudge button that would go, this is not a suitable place to stop. Find.

[B]

Scoot up, you know, 10ft, 20ft, 10ft.

[A]

To the next available place to stop. That would be like a useful thing to do.

[B]

That's a good idea.

[A]

I've also now sent three or four reports about it taking the wrong way out of my nail neighborhood. I'm hoping that. That I want to see how many reports I have to send before it stops doing.

[B]

Makes the unnecessary left, Right.

[A]

It takes the long way.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

It goes north to go south. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Which is like, this is a good experiment. How many reports will it take to change the behavior of this robot to draw their attention and go, man, we're getting a lot of reports from this place.

[A]

But I'm also. I think I may have just messed study by talking about it on the show. Possibly.

[B]

Why?

[A]

Because somebody may know somebody at Waymo who goes, hey, go find Matt Farah's Waymo account and relook at his reports. Right.

[B]

You circumvent the actual process.

[A]

It might kick start a system. I'm not intentionally doing that, but it could totally happen. I know for a fact that people who work at those companies listen to this. So anyway, maybe it'll happen.

[B]

So if you're listening and you work at Waymo, don't help solve Matt's problem.

[A]

Don't just let the system solve Matt's problem. Yeah.

[B]

Unless you work in the department who's meant to see the reports anyway.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

Ooh, it's a wrinkle.

[A]

I know. This is the problem with experimenting on myself.

[B]

This is like selecting tiny bits of data to support your theory that eating just meat is good for you.

[A]

Yeah. Or like deciding I'm like, you know, gonna be vegetarian for like, you know, a random week of each month.

[B]

Measles isn't bad for you, Matt.

[A]

Yeah. But it was a good driver in the rain. I was pretty confident. My. We live and work right near the hub where these things go to sleep.

[B]

Yeah. Hive.

[A]

Yeah. And so I think there's a disproportionate number of them just in our area. Cause they're always coming or going in addition to the ones that are actually shuttling people around. But my nephew was just like, this is crazy. How many? Cause he lives in Savannah, Georgia.

[B]

Are there any?

[A]

No. Whoa. And he was you know, he saw a couple last time he was here, which was like, you know, a year and a half ago or something. But. But he was like, you know, last night or coming home, and they're just like. I guess it was like shift change. So as we were coming by here, they're all, like, turning in there, and he's like, there's like six in a row.

[B]

Did he ride in them with you?

[A]

No, but we're going to take one to dinner tonight.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm curious what his take is as a young person who might be up on new technology and far more malleable than we are.

[A]

Fully tech.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, had an iPad at a very young age.

[B]

I'm curious if he'll just go, yeah, this makes sense, or if he'll still be shocked by how good it is even though he's had technology for a long time.

[A]

I mean, almost everybody has exactly the same reaction, which is, wow, this is incredible. And then within two or three minutes, they're scrolling on Instagram or something, which is a crazy thing that, like, just. People just go, okay. They just like. It doesn't do anything crazy for, like, two minutes. And they're just like, this is safe.

[B]

It's funny. That's how quickly we get used to something or trust something.

[A]

I do it assuming it's dangerous. Like, I seriously do, like, I do it, like, for my own, like, scientific research. Assuming, like, something bad will happen. Driving the Myers Manx is like that, too.

[B]

That's probably more dangerous.

[A]

It is. Well, it definitely is. But driving it, driving that thing around, I'm like, I am really enjoying this. And I understand that this is very dangerous.

[B]

Oh, sure. But the joy overwhelms the danger. It's like anything that's dangerous.

[A]

Yeah. I do the math and Joy wins. It's like 90 10. Joy.

[B]

Yeah. Explain to a base jumper you know, this is dangerous. They're like, yeah, but it's awesome. It's this awesome.

[A]

But at this altitude, I jizz.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. When the chute hits, my heart jizzes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But if I don't open the chute, then no jizz, no nothing.

[A]

Yeah. Did you make a tea in a West side bottle?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Did you use hot water?

[B]

No, I just dropped this green tea into cold water.

[A]

Is that a thing, cold tea? I mean, I guess it is like iced tea.

[B]

Usually it takes way longer to steep, just.

[A]

Just like, you know, cold brew coffee.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I'm not sure how steeped it will be.

[A]

Huh.

[B]

It's been about.

[A]

So everyone's Everybody's doing science today.

[B]

This is definitely science. Okay, I'm definitely doing science.

[A]

You may have botulism in there too. Who knows? Yeah.

[B]

How is it still tastes like water. It's got a hint of green tea at the very end. That mostly tastes like water. Although it looks like tea.

[A]

It looks like tea. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, it looks successful.

[A]

Leave it. Maybe by tomorrow it'll be tea. We'll be here in the morning.

[B]

Yeah, that's true.

[A]

Who knows?

[B]

Now that I've sipped it, it'll definitely turn.

[A]

We gotta plug our pal Kristen Lee, who I love very much, who is a car writer for a long time and she's written a book, a kid's book called the 50 States Things that Go. And basically what it is is a state by state atlas, I suppose. Or I should say it's an alphabetical list of states and then a bunch of fun transportation related facts for kids about each state. Such as Grand Rapids. Massachusetts was famous for personalizing its streetcars. The Spirit of St. Louis streetcar was named in honor of the aviator Charles Lindbergh who was a Nazi supporter. No, it doesn't say that last part in the book. The kids don't need to know that. But second, that's the adult version.

[B]

It's the one in high school.

[A]

The 50 states things that go. Nighttime edition for your adults in the room. No, get one for your kid. We love Kristen. She's the best. And you should buy her book of 500 facts that showcase the vehicle's history and spirit unique to each of the 50 states.

[B]

That's awesome. When I was a kid, I would love that book. I had a bunch of those transportation things with. Remember the cutaway books where it would show like the inside of a train engine, F1 car, all that stuff.

[A]

And this is like pretty like luxuriously made. Like it's like a nice, like it's. It's a very like high quality thing. Doesn't feel. Yeah.

[B]

Well, it's like hardbound. The COVID has a 3D. It's like a to it. Yeah.

[A]

Embossed. Yeah.

[B]

And durable for children is how I would describe it.

[A]

I'm gonna have to send that to my nephews. They'll like that. Thanks. Kristen. Go buy it. You can buy it from probably Jeff Bezos, but you should buy from somewhere else.

[B]

This is Abrams Books. Yeah, I like bookshop.org Speaking of finding books, speaking of what rain. A woman from Alabama invented windshield wipers. Mary Anderson.

[A]

Mary Anderson. Did you ever see the movie about the intermittent wipers? Oh, fuck. Is it Called. I want to say it's called Flash of Genius, and it is a movie about the guy who invented the Intermittent Wiper. And then the idea was stolen from him, and he, like, basically went nuts trying to sue the automakers to get credit for it. Is that right? Flash of Genius? I think that's right. Yeah. Maybe the Internet. Nuts. The Internet letting you down, Zach, today?

[B]

No, I'm just. He developed intermittent windschool wipers based on the idea he patented. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So someone stole his idea.

[A]

Yes, yes, they did. But is that the right name of the movie?

[B]

Yes, the name of the movie.

[A]

All right, cool. Yeah, it's kind of a fun one.

[B]

People also rejected Anderson's attempt to sell the license of the patent. They thought her device was lacking commercial value at a time when cars were still relatively rare. Her patent expired in 1920 without having gone to mass production. And then, of course, by the 20s, Cadillac began installing wipers as standard features using designs that followed the basic principles.

[A]

Of her device, America.

[B]

She was inducted into the Inventors hall of Fame after she died.

[A]

Cool. And her family gets generational wealth from that. Right?

[B]

I have bad news. Probably I don't have time to look for it, but I'm just gonna guess.

[A]

I'm gonna guess they do not.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Speaking of patent changes, before we go to questions, did you. I want to talk about this EPA thing real quick. Did you see this last week?

[A]

Well, I remember. I remember talking about how when they did that little funky thing where they didn't change the fuel economy standards, but they got rid of the fines.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I remember saying, he's basically getting rid of fuel economy standards and being called alarmist by a couple of people. So I'm sorry, go on.

[B]

So this is a story the administration talked about a week or two ago. They want to relax EPA standards on vehicles. Vehicles. And the. The statement they've put forward to the public, though, is that this will make cars cheaper by almost a thousand dollars, without specifying how, of course. So they say, hey, the cars are going to get simpler, which means they're cheaper to build, but it's going to be cheaper for you to buy a car by up to a thousand dollars. This is what they stated. So I got a message from someone who wants to remain nameless. They work for a very large car company at a pretty high level. They want to keep their position also hidden.

[A]

It rhymes with Jevrolet.

[B]

No, I'm not even going to get that close. But basically, this person said, I had put out a post saying I think this is going to be BS and he's like, you're right because OEMs will only save around $1,000 per vehicle on average with these changes. And they said my company is not passing any of that along to the consumer as a price reduction production, OEMs will get a little boost in profit.

[A]

And he said, no trickle down economics. It trickles down.

[B]

They're getting hammered on tariffs. So this person said, why do you think these companies are going to want to help you save $1,000 when they've been. Everything's gotten more expensive for them to build cars. He did say there's a small maintenance benefit. So I asked what that was. This is quote, the predicted maintenance benefit will be very minor in terms of its impact on total cost of ownership. Ownership. They're looking at getting rid of things like active grille shutters, high efficiency alternators and stop start. So that means like the active grille shutter motor won't break anymore. That is something that they have to repair under warranty a lot. The alternators and starters used for auto stop start are more expensive. Today I looked on Napa auto parts and stuff. I couldn't find the difference between. I was looking up, you know, a truck starter. I couldn't find one that was designated as for auto stop start or not. Every starter I found was basically $300 to 500 bucks.

[A]

You'd probably have to like compare one from like an F150 that from the last year before it was like standard.

[B]

Then I tried to find that because I know that some of the companies sunsetted stop start during.

[A]

I don't know why I just said F150 by the way. Like I don't know. It's because you have. There's literally an F150 on the screen. It's not because this person works for Ford. I have no idea what that.

[B]

So if someone knows like if someone put in the comments, comments like auto stop start starters cost this much but for the non auto system it's this much.

[A]

It's probably, I mean it's probably just a more durable starter. I mean there's, it's going to be starting more. So it's probably just more, you know, just better made, you know.

[B]

Well, the auto stop start gets used more obviously. It gets used every time you're driving, you know, whatever. Five times a mile depends on your drive. So they have made them more robust. But it's.

[A]

They might be starting and stopping 100 times a day for sure. Yeah.

[B]

So that is definitely a Part that's going to wear out more often, profit something.

[A]

That's funny. When they talked about the maintenance, I was like, my first thought was, because they're eliminating diesel exhaust fluid. That's what I meant by lower cost of ownership.

[B]

Oh, yeah, that's possible.

[A]

That would be bad. Diesel exhaust fluid. It works. It does work.

[B]

It does work.

[A]

It works.

[B]

And then I did some math. So for people, if you're enticed, I did, by this thousand dollars thing.

[A]

What'd you major in in college?

[B]

Communications.

[A]

All right, cool.

[B]

But I took math. So the current average fuel economy nationally is 24.4 gallons. Let's call it 25 miles per gallon. Miles per gallon. The current national average price of fuel today, according to AAA, is $2.82. So if you drive 12,000 miles a year, use 480 gallons of gas, you spend $1353 on gasoline. If the average goes down by just 2 miles per gallon, based on these changes, your fuel costs will go up to 1471. And if it goes down three miles per gallon, it goes up to over $1,500. So basically, if it goes. If MPG goes down by three miles per gallon, you will spend that thousand dollars in five years of owning the car. So the thousand dollars you save on the msrp, if they give you that savings, you spend it within five years. And what's so interesting about this is in 2022, previous administration put out a story saying, hey, we want average fleet economy to go up to 49 miles per gallon. It was projected to save people $1,400 at the pump, but cars were going to cost $1,100 more. So it's pretty funny that both of them are like, both administrations were doing the same thing for people's pocketbooks, just in different directions. And of course, there's environmental effects by producing EPA standards.

[A]

Yeah. If you could have every car, you know, have the average be 49 miles a gallon. Sure. And I imagine that average is probably calculated by a bunch of cars being EVs.

[B]

That was. Yes, that's the average. So that's a super high number. I was just using. I found average miles per gallon for small light vehicles based on NHTSA, and that was at 25 miles per gallon. And this also assumes that gas stays 282. Now, if it goes down, obviously you save more money, but if it goes back to up to 350 nationally, like.

[A]

That'S a. I mean, just like, How the fuck. And like, I like, you got like. I hope everybody knows that Like, I like cars. I do, I do like cars. I don't, I'm not trying to like say we need, we need to get rid of cars. But like how, if you like live on the fucking earth, are you not just under a common understanding that like these cars should probably burn less gas over time? Like how is that a fucking controversial political opinion that like, hey, the chemicals coming out of the back of this fucking truck, truck or car and the amount of flammable fuel going into the front of this truck should probably be less over time. Fucking rockets. I mean, is this like that's, it's crazy that that isn't just like a baseline of being a fucking a human.

[B]

I know, well, but we know like the campaign started in the 70s by Exxon to put forth disinformation about the effects of people on climate change. That's been 50 years in action and the effects are obvious. So there are a lot of people out there that think the source of changing climate is from one thing, not another thing or whatever. And that's how.

[A]

You could wind back the show. Go find it if you want. I did say I didn't think those, the full on internal combustion ban. I was like, I don't think that shit's ever gonna happen or at least not anytime soon. I said that when they announced it, none of the math supported it.

[B]

The timeline was too aggressive and the infrastructure wasn't reacting in time.

[A]

I got into a fight with Dave Anthony about it on Twitter.

[B]

He wasn't your friend for a while.

[A]

No. And now we're friends. And now that's funny to us because he wanted it to be true. True. And like everyone, you know, people of authority at the time said like it's happening. And I was like, nah, but, but.

[B]

And well, when I, when I posted this story, the my reaction to this thing, I know that there are a lot of people, possibly some listening that would are arguing and getting very loud right now about what causes climate change. Do humans impact it? I don't want to debate them on that. So here's the numbers of how it affects your wallet. Like you're being told that this will save you a thousand dollars. If the efficiency of cars goes down by X. You will not save $1,000 within five years. If gas prices fluctuate up at all, which they have a lot in the last couple years, that savings goes away.

[A]

Just wanted to say that, yeah, I get that EVs aren't for everybody and the charging network cannot support a 100% evidence mandate. Fucking no shit. But how do we not understand as people that even if we understand that climate change comes from a variety of sources, a minority of which is personally owned vehicles, personally owned transportation is not by itself the majority of drivers of climate change. But that's not something small. But like, how the fuck do we not understand that making them more efficient over time is like just the thing that we should be doing? I don't know, like, that line should never be going the other way. You know what I mean? Even if it has to stay flat for a while, you know, like, even if it doesn't continue moving forward for a little while, that line should just never be going back. Yeah, that's crazy.

[B]

Progression of technology, that's crazy.

[A]

I mean, I realize I'm talking like someone who's born in 1981 and didn't really understand how like, government worked until essentially mid Bush, right? So I get it. I'm not old enough to have, like, seen everything, but like, man, it really did seem like at least, you know, from between Bush and, you know, Trump won anyway, at least during the. From the 80s to then line. Line of vehicles, efficiency was going up pretty significantly, you know, and that, that was like a good thing. Like if you ever were in LA in the 1970s maybe, or saw even a photo or video of fucking LA in the 1970s. Cause like, fucking. Yikes. The air's pretty good here now.

[B]

Yeah, you can see across the city.

[A]

Yeah, all the the time. The air is really nice here now because of that anyway, so people should go to them.

[B]

Yeah, let's go to them.

[A]

Of course, I'm talking about those folks who support us over on Patreon. Patreon.com the Smoking Tire podcast. We love you guys over there. These are the last. This. Is this the last show of the year?

[B]

Yeah, this will air Tuesday the 30th.

[A]

Yeah, I guess.

[B]

And the next one, I think, think we're airing Friday because of the new year.

[A]

Oh, wow. Yeah. How about that? Okay. So be it. You guys have really kept the ship sailing across the ocean in 2025. And we really appreciate you guys. And of course, Patreon is how you ask questions for the show. It's where you catch the live stream. It's where you get the show before everybody else, such as the day is recorded, not waiting. It's where you get the show without ads and it's where you get extra show. All that shit is going on [e-mail] the Smoking Tire Podcast. Thank you guys so much. It's the best Way for you to support your favorite car podcast, maybe even your second favorite car podcast. I may have just inspired you to support Spike's Patreon or something. Actually, he's not my favorite. I should probably support my favorite podcast. Lucas Harper's inflamed sense of artificial identity. You have four hours. Oh, this is great. A non car question. Four hours to make a meal for someone. Bless you and have an intimate dinner at your house. Who are you inviting and what are you making? Unlimited budget bonus. You get one chef, alive or dead, to help you. Who are you choosing? Boy, is this a fucking question? Okay, so make a meal for one person, four hours. And I get a chef to help me.

[B]

Any chef and any ingredient.

[A]

Can I say Carl, just so I can talk to him again? I would have Carl in my kitchen with me making the matzo ball soup again, with me writing down and videoing every fucking detail. And the person I would want to eat it with is just him. That's it. That would be. That would be perfect. I would take that. Do you have one of those?

[B]

I mean, I'd probably choose Bourdain, so I could just talk to him and learn things.

[A]

Yeah, that would be another good choice.

[B]

I would try to make whatever the greatest Italian dishes he has, he knows how to make for Sarah because we just. We love Italian food. But yeah, that would be the choice.

[A]

I'd probably. If I was gonna have Bourdain make me something, it would be steak frites. Because he worked at, you know, it was Les Hal. He made thousands of steak frites. He probably made a real good steak frites. 575 Super Dave. America says if you could give the safari treatment to any Ferrari, what would it be? Suffer is a good. Safari is a good name. I really like that best. Ferrari Safari. Well, the obvious answer is the FF or the lusso, right? But if you look cool, it would look extremely cool. If you wanted to go a little more classic, I mean, you know, the 308 rally cars were really exceptional. That's like, pretty much what that is, dude.

[B]

An old Daytona would look cool, meaty. It would be meaty. Meaty. Fitment lifted and stuff. That would be.

[A]

Yeah. Picture the 240Zs that are safaried out, and then you could easily imagine what the Daytona would look like. That would be bitching, right? Oh, and then why don't you think we see more safari cars in urban areas with bad roads? I mean, I think that that, that was not a thing that people were interested in doing until, I mean, it obviously was a good idea. I mean 2018, when I got my Safari 911, the title of the article I wrote for Road and track was a 911 Safari is the ultimate city car. So I don't think this was an unknown idea, but I think a lot of people are not really worried, willing to compromise their sports car for that.

[B]

It also changes the value of that car bit. It can go up, but it can also hurt it if people aren't into what you've built.

[A]

Right? Beep beep. Noodle is the username ChatGPT gave me. I have a 2019 Volt. GM has a history of giving up on good ideas after pumping tons of money into them. Truth. But don't you think ditching the Voltec system is near the top of that list? I, I do, I do. I think especially now that plug in hybrids are the thing. You know, I think GM was, they were there first, they had a great system. You know, the Volt was a sweet plug in hybrid in 2013 that worked really good. 2009, sorry, the Volt came out, I had a 2013, but they were fucking awesome. But yes, I do think it is. I mean, I think they could go back, I do think they could pivot to it. They were there already, they could make it it again. But yeah, it does seem shortsighted. But it wasn't just that GM gave up on the good idea after pumping money into it. They didn't know how to market it. They were just like, they didn't know how to tell people how it worked in a simple way. They actually made it. I think Johnny might have said this because we were talking about, about it like the idea of just having a gas engine that's a generator to charge batteries. Whereas the Volt, under certain circumstances it would be a generator. Under other circumstances it would actually drive the wheels. GM just shouldn't have told people that. They should have just said, yeah, it's a generator, you wouldn't have known, but you got it.

[B]

I mean they have to tell people what's going on.

[A]

I mean, but they should, shouldn't have because it made it more complicated. They should have just simplified it. It's an electric car that can charge itself. That's it. They should have just said that or they should have talked about plug in hybrid or something. But the way they marketed it, no one really understood how it worked and really understood why it was that much better than a Prius.

[B]

I think Prius has first mover advantage for so long. Convincing the public that you can compete is really hard.

[A]

Every company thought they were like a Prius but really it was actually much better than a Prius. The Roger Farah podcast Might as well. I've mentioned before that a used Audi S5 is a great daily driver. Value under 50,000. I'm not. Yeah, yeah, it could be. It could be. Is there anything in today's market you'd choose over it? Probably, yeah.

[B]

I mean I would choose a lot of four doors over it. You know, I mean the S5 is awesome and it's good at that job but a big two door coupe is not as useful as a four door, especially if you have the same engine and all the same stuff and they handle about the same, you know, who cares? Just have that back door.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I mean we had an 09 Audi S5 and it was nice at the time when it was new and I'm sure it would still be kind of nice today if it was well kept. But I probably wouldn't want one today. I mean honestly, you could have if we're talking about that type of car, like I'd rather have an E92 M3 today to be honest with you. I'd rather have have a few other things. I mean 50k, I'm into 997 Porsches and I'd much rather have that.

[B]

Yeah, you could get a CTSV coupe.

[A]

Probably 50 goes a long way and an S5 is not what I would be doing with it. No. Sorry. Ted Theo Logan toying with an EV lease for a three day commute in Minnesota. Am I the market demo for a Mach E rally? Yes, yes I am. I am pro maqui rally. A little bit of snow.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

But highway, Yep. And then they say a bit of off road capability for when I visit some camping properties. It's great for that. For fire roads and snow tracks and stuff like that. 100%.

[B]

Yeah. I mean as long as that campground is within reasonable range of a charger or your other house, you know, your primary house where you can charge, charge it up, look at your infrastructure. But that car does so many things well and they have described all of them.

[A]

Josh J. As someone who partners with a watch micro brand, how do you feel about buying one used as opposed to supporting the small business? I've always wanted this one brand but I found their price too high. Managed to find a used one for less. Although I love it, I feel a bit of shame shame for not directly supporting a growing brand. I think you are supporting a growing brand. The fact that Somebody was able to sell that watch second hand to you. Watches need to have a secondhand value. If the second hand value of this brand's watch was zero, nobody would buy another watch from the company again. So a watch does need to have some kind of secondhand value there to be needs, needs to be someone there to buy it. When somebody buys it from the company and doesn't want it anymore, that would like suck. I mean imagine just like our watch, this watch, if this Watch, which was $1,200 new, was sitting on eBay for six months for 250, buy it now. No takers. I'd be like, oof, that's not great. Someone was like, hey Matt, I saw one on ebay and it went for 1,500. It went for over. All right, cool. Even though they're sold out, somebody wanted one that bad and that's pretty cool. So you're not supporting the brand directly, but you're wearing it. Maybe you tell somebody about it. I mean the brand you mentioned is pretty obscure.

[B]

Imagine what would happen to new Porsche pricing if no one cared about, about the old ones. You know, you're still, you're an ambassador for the brand. It's showing people that it's still a cool thing to have even if it's used. Like builds excitement, all that stuff.

[A]

Yeah, and by the way, like, I mean like that brand, like they'll be fine. Maybe you'll buy a used one or a new one when you can afford it. If you still like them. Like you. It's nice that you're thinking about this, but like, yeah, just like with a car, like you're still allowed to go to the Porsche meet if you buy the car used. And, and no one knows you put that watch on and nobody knows you bought it used. The only person like you. No one after that. No one. Yeah, but you should not feel shame. You should be okay and happy with your new watch. That's fine. She says my Mini is just right. Says I was scrolling the classifieds recently and noticed that the new model year year Lexus RC350 and RCF still come equipped standard with a CD player. Do any other examples of current cars have any outdated or weird tech like this? Not really. Man, I haven't seen a CD player in a minute and I haven't driven a Lexus RC. Holy shit. When was the Lex, when was the RC Track AD edition? That must have been seven years ago. But there's a 2025. Here's Autoblog says there are a few CD players. Oh, is this a gallery or can we just scroll? Okay. Lexus. Yes.

[B]

Get rid of this window.

[A]

Oh, boy. Pop ups. Keep going. Lexus is shocker, old ass car. Lexus RC shocker, old ass car.

[B]

All right, Subaru Outburst.

[A]

Subaru Outback. Yeah. Car for old ass people. Subaru Legacy. Yeah, same car. That's it.

[B]

That's it. All right, so four cars, two makes. Yeah.

[A]

Two Lexuses and two Subarus, basically. Yeah. Okay, so tell mom. Yeah, I mean, that's really. Once the screen takeover happens, all the outdated tech really just goes away.

[B]

But those markets make. I am actually surprised there's no Mercedes or something because this is obviously aimed at slightly older people.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And you know, I'm kind of surprised there's no like S class or E Class.

[A]

Maybe Mercedes new tech. Mercedes always says that. We're always like, if you put my mother in a new Mercedes, she'd have no fucking clue what was going on in there.

[B]

But if they had a CD changer in the back, she might go, oh, cool, I can put some of my albums in here.

[A]

Still rock. The CD changer in the Vanquish. Same six going on. Going on 20. 20 years. 06. We've had the car 20 years. I've had the same six CDs in there.

[B]

Do you still have your CD collection from when you were a younger person?

[A]

Oh, dude, it's probably in a cabinet at my house somewhere.

[B]

Yeah, my parents have mine somewhere.

[A]

Yeah, I've got, I think somewhere. They're in a binder. I bet there. I bet half of them are scratched as shit. I also, I don't think I have. Outside of that car, which is 2,900 miles from here. I don't think I have a seat player at all.

[B]

Neither do I. Not anymore. Took mine out. Yeah, my computer doesn't have one.

[A]

The one in the nsx, which I'll only own for a few more days. Oh, no. The Countach. The only car I have for the CD player.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

It's disassembled. The. The POW has a cassette deck. Oh, wait, no, no, no. The Delica has a Clarion double din. But does it tilt down to reveal a CD player? I don't think so.

[B]

Or does it just tilt down to go into the dash?

[A]

It doesn't go. It's not a flip out. It's a fixed double din. Okay, but it might do one of the. It might be like a knee kneeling, but I don't know. It's been too long.

[B]

You gotta hit the button or it Might have a tape deck back there. That's what mine had.

[A]

No, this isn't. This wouldn't have. I don't know. I don't know. Anyway, all carbon tubs go to heaven. If electric turbos and electric superchargers are not powered by the engine anymore, are they not basically the same thing? I would say they are. Unless so far now, I can't say this about an electric supercharger because I've not examined one in great detail, but the electric turbos that Porsche use are still partially powered by exhaust gas. They're not fully electric. The exhaust gas does take over. At a certain point. I forget exactly what RPM it takes over, but there is a point at which the RPMs are. The flow of exhaust gases is enough to get that thing going on its own, at which point it starts harvesting electricity. Electric superchargers. Is there a point, Zach, in an electric supercharger? At which point the power of the accessory drive belt, which would normally drive, overtakes the electricity?

[B]

I'm trying to look. I don't think so. I think the big difference, though, is that, by definition, turbochargers at some point use the exhaust gas to power that turbine. With a supercharger, it's always powered by an external source.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's always powered by the belt or the other belt or in this case, electricity. So maybe that's how. And maybe the psi for a turbocharger can ultimately get higher because it uses that exhaust gas as it spins up. So I don't know, like, if you know what the psi of the, you know, the new 992.2 turbos is.

[A]

I've never heard. It's like 30. It's in the 30. Like, I've never heard. I've never heard of a supercharger getting anywhere near as much boost as turbos make.

[B]

New turbo S gets 26.6.1 psi boost. So.

[A]

I. I don't know of any supercharger that makes that kind of. Unless maybe you're talking about a diesel.

[B]

So the stock GT500 from a few years ago made 9 psi. Yeah. So a third. Yeah.

[A]

Nobody. Good question, though.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And now we know the answer. Nobody cares about my G70. Fight the good fight, brother. I've been reading Otano Rama, as per your recommendation, and it's great. Any other good books you've been into lately? I just finished the image. It's from 1962, and it will make you want to bang your head into a wall in case that's the kind of thing you're interested in. It basically talked about the problems that we are having with algorithmic news and silos of information and news about nothing and influencer culture in 1962. It's fucking crazy. It's so crazy and so frustrating. It's called the Image and the foreword is written by Douglas Rushkoff who wrote Survival of the Richest, which is also a must read because it's fucking crazy. It's basically about what billionaires actually think is going to happen and what they're actually trying to do when the inevitable apocalypse comes.

[B]

Oh good.

[A]

Yeah, it's good.

[B]

That's a feel good movie of the year.

[A]

Zach, do you and I think we're included in those plans.

[B]

Nope. In some form. Serfdom.

[A]

My only hope is for you and Sarah and me and Hannah and the four cats and Tucker to get in the delica and go to the Yellowstone Club and hope they like let us end.

[B]

I was not expecting that answer.

[A]

That's our only hope.

[B]

Hey, we met once.

[A]

I can cook. Yeah, I know how to make matzo ball soup.

[B]

Carl taught me. I was just gonna be like, let's just steal a sailboat and head south.

[A]

Oh no, that's the real. Listen, that's the real plan. But we can't talk about that too publicly. Cause when sailboats go missing, when there's one little earthquake, 120, 20 meter yacht goes missing, they're gonna come looking for Captain Farah.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah they are. Oh God.

[A]

But like you guys out there, like you know how easy it is to steal boats, right? Like stealing boats is only a problem if there's people to catch you later. Cause you have to come back to shore eventually.

[B]

Just don't go to the same shore.

[A]

But like what if shore isn't there anymore?

[B]

Go to a different shore.

[A]

Yeah, what if shore's gone? If shore's gone, your problem is solved. Most boats will just turn on, especially the big ones. Dan Henderson says what car offers the best driving experience at non criminal speeds? I've already owned all the Miatas and love my nd but I want to move upmarket. That won't put me in prison for wanting to shift often and going to redline is possible. I've owned Mr. 2s, Boxsters, Caterhams and more. This is a problem. I mean look, you've got your brz, you've got your GR Corolla, those are fun. I mean if you can find a great Fiesta ST out there somewhere, those are a good time. Or why don't you go old school? My Ferrari 328 was like awesome at non criminal speeds. Like vintage.

[B]

Yeah. Or even like the pow. The Delica. Something where the pow's not fun. No, no. But well, I think there's. It's a different kind of fun. Right? Like is it silly, whimsical fun? Is it. Are you excited to just drive it and listen to it versus rev it out?

[A]

No, I think what Dan is talking about is a slow is fast sports car, not just a shopping cart that looks cool. That's right. I mean Lotus Elite. If I don't see Lotus Elise on.

[B]

The list, that's kind of quick.

[A]

That's in your, that's in your wheelhouse there. I mean. And then vintage go, you know, go with a. Go with an A G body 911 or you know them shits aren't fast.

[B]

Especially shorter gearing because then you can shift a lot.

[A]

Yeah. Find it. If you can find an air cooled car that's got short ratios in it, that's a good time.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Old cars, older cars. Yeah. I don't know whether I'm the Boxster or the Jag says, all right, what do we have here? Let's see. Toyota is the largest automaker. Okay. Toyota's business model is totally different than the others who build throwaway cars. Why is it that no one else tries to design and build cars to last millennia like Toyota does? I mean, I'm not so sure that that's what Toyota's doing in 2025. I am certain that that's what Toyota was doing in 1995, and they've managed to stretch a lot of that out until 2015, 2016. But now that everything's a hybrid and things are more computerized and turbocharged. And turbocharged. And there was no such thing really as a bad Toyota powertrain for 25 years. Now they've got some problems with some of them and I don't think nobody else tries to build cars that last. But I think that when Toyota wanted to make a push to the US marketplace, in particular behind the wind of Lexus, they were going for, they put a ton of money into those cars. That Camry that came out that kind of looked like the LS400, I think it was the 92 Camry, the unkillable Camry. That's a fucking. They put so much money into that car, into making it durable and really, really good. Think about what they were building in like 94. The preface, that Camry, like the Corolla, the first, like the rounded Corolla. Oh, Boy, I'm sure There's at least two other cars. There was the Celica, there was the Mr.2. Until 95 they were building not only pretty dope stuff, but a whole line of cars that were basically unkillable. That's not really broadly true anymore.

[B]

That's true. Yeah.

[A]

But they were trying to make a big statement in the US market about their cars and they earned customers for fucking life doing that. It was a very, very smart bet. But I don't think they've had to keep that up this whole time.

[B]

Yeah, either they have stopped trying or they've just run into problems with all of these new systems that have to be added to cars for turbocharging or other suppliers. I think their Tacoma or their Tundra problem right now is linked to a supplier for like the metallurgy stuff or you know, turbo suppliers.

[A]

But all their cars that were like the unkillable cars use like very old simple powertrains. They don't use the new high tech shit.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And the Prius is reliable like that is. But like the, as we've seen in some people's videos and stuff, like the actual gas engine in a Prius is like so under stressed that like of course it lasts fucking forever. And the battery is pretty under stressed too because it's only really working at very low speeds and it's not getting fucking fast charged and stuff like that. The Prius is a pretty under stressed.

[B]

Car and they were making it. If they're making four bangers in the 90s that were super reliable, overbuilt or just built the right way. Now take that engine, put less stress on it or similar technology and put less stress on it.

[A]

Forgot about the Supra listing off my cars from the Toyota's the 94. I forgot like the most durable tuner engine in fucking history. I mean, and the Tundra, which didn't. Didn't the first gen Tundra have a 1UZ in it?

[B]

Ooh, good question.

[A]

Or like. No, it didn't. That's not true. It did not. I think it had some, some kind of Uz. It was some V8, was it? No, I don't know what it was, but it was a V8. Was it related to.

[B]

It was. It was 99 to 2004. So one Uz Fe.

[A]

Oh yeah, that's it. Yeah. So. So it did so. Yeah. So there. So that's just like that, that five or whatever year period where every car they make was like unkillable. They're still carrying the momentum of that, you know.

[B]

Yeah. And now just falling apart. There's an article on the drive. Explains all the reliability problems they've been having for the last year.

[A]

Yeah. Two guys in the back of Alexis, Texas, says, this is a perfect question for me. Are there any cars with climate control systems that can blow hot air at your feet and cold air up higher? I have Raynaud's disease, so my feet and hands are always cold in the winter. So I blast the heater at my feet and use a heated steering wheel. But I drive with the windows down so the rest of my. My body doesn't get too hot. Man, that's fucking annoying. That's tough. I'd rather leave the windows up and blast the heater down low and AC up high. But I haven't found a car that can do that. Boy, do I have a car for you, sir. Let me introduce you to the 1991 Bentley Turbo R, which can do that. Fucking crank it on your feet. Crank the AC on the rest of the car.

[B]

You had two dials for each side, Right? Right.

[A]

Yep. Wow.

[B]

Uh huh. Cuz I haven't seen a new car that has that.

[A]

Yeah, Bentley's.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

80S and 80s into 97. The newest one you get is a 97. Matter of fact, you know what else you could do? You know where else could do it? I'm pretty sure the Wraith. I'm pretty sure you get the Rolls Wraith. Okay. The cheapest co car. Can you please on the Googles get me the interior dashboard. Like the dashboard view of a 2004 Rolls Royce Phantom. This may be the cheapest you put 2002. And that is not a car that exists. Is that what you said you need? 04? 04 was the first year. At least in America. We need the interior. Let's see if you have the double dials in that Phantom. Can we see the dash please? That there's your shot. Do we have a high and a low? I don't think so.

[B]

Open.

[A]

I don't think it has it. I can't see him there. You may be able to find like a real shitty Phantom for the right amount of money. That has it. No, it doesn't. Okay. Yes it does. Can you zoom in on this photo?

[B]

It's pretty grainy.

[A]

So I'm pretty sure those horizontal dials have a high and a low on both sides. Because you see on the right one, you see there's a white mark on just the low half.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

All right. So what?

[B]

And then I think you're Right. There's another white mark just up to the left.

[A]

Yeah. So what you need, sir, is either a Bentley Turbo R. There it is. Yes, that is it. The high and the low. You need a 2004 Rolls Royce Phantom.

[B]

There you go. What are those cost.

[A]

Now look, I didn't say that this car would be affordable, just that we would find one.

[B]

What a solution. Good on you. I was gonna say find a car that has cooled seats and you just run the air conditioner conditioning air conditioned seats while you have the heater cranking on your feet.

[A]

Or install a cool shirt in your car. You know, blast the heat and chill the body.

[B]

Yeah, but then you gotta wear that thing the whole time.

[A]

Did it say what this sold for? Do you want to pull up like do you want to pull up bat and. Or cars and probably bat for Phantoms. Let's look at. Let's look at bat and let's see what it would cost to get into a Phantom. You're not going to like this. This. You're not. Oh. 512Amazon. Bet that's so good. Okay, let's find some. Sold.

[B]

Ouch.

[A]

Sold units 39k miles. Sold for 90. Wow. 22,000.

[B]

The cheap case you're getting is 66 grand.

[A]

Sold for 66,000 though.

[B]

That's.

[A]

Look, I gotta be honest, it's less than I thought. How about bottom right? 16,400 mile. Oh, that's back in February. We didn't know that. Show me white.

[B]

That was also 2020.

[A]

Oh, it was. Holy shit. So few of these on bat. Okay, show me. Yeah, show me September. That one is a 22,000 mile.04 Phantom. Oh, with like blacked out chrome trim.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Okay, let's go down. It's got 22,000 miles. Okay.

[B]

It's repainted in white.

[A]

It's repo. Let's keep looking. The current owner purchased and added less than 1,000 miles. Okay, let's keep going. Let's see what the inside looks like. How it's just black. Black with burl wood. All right. Superficially doesn't look terrible. And 22,000 miles for a Rolls Royce should be fine. It makes you wonder if it smells weird. Also makes you wonder if it's. It was crashed.

[B]

Yeah, the repaint with that low mountain.

[A]

But wait a minute. Oh, that's the CD player. There it is. There it is. There's your double climate control wheels right there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Double fans, double climate. Okay, so 66k. You could be rolling in a Phantom.

[B]

And maybe you could tell. Get A prescription for it and your insurance will pay for it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There you go.

[A]

Ray Nodes disease handled. Doctor. Doctor, I have found a solution to alleviate. So glad we could help you solve this problem.

[B]

That's amazing.

[A]

Chunhound what car would you like to own that you have little to no appreciation for visually? I wouldn't want to own a car that I don't appreciate visually.

[B]

Yeah, right. I wouldn't. No, because then I gotta walk out and look. Look at it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And drive it around. I wouldn't want to do that.

[A]

I mean there's cars that like I would own. Like I didn't really care. The Mach E for instance. Like I didn't. I didn't feel away about that. You know what I mean? It was fine. It was for really for my wife more than for me and it was fine. But like I guess you could say I had little to no appreciation for it. But like I wouldn't want to buy a car I didn't like. At least kind of like looking at.

[B]

I think the Mach E had some good angles. I thought it was good looking car from like front three quarter. I think they did some pretty good. It wasn't bad.

[A]

It was fun.

[B]

The little roof trick they did made it look pretty cool. So I think you could have gotten uglier or less interesting looking EVs for sure. You know, more egg like if you wanted.

[A]

Like I mean. Okay. No, because all the exotic stuff. Stuff like looks kind of cool. I don't think I have one. I think there has to be an appreciation for it visually. Blurple says what cars are you most excited to drive next year? I'm looking forward to the Aston Martin Valhalla which we should be doing this year.

[B]

ZR1.

[A]

I already did that one. But yes, we'll get a ZR1 and you will find a way. Is the rear wheel drive Bentley.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

Continental Super Sports.

[B]

That's wild.

[A]

It seems like a pretty good time. I'm looking forward to driving the Manx on Ice.

[B]

Countach maybe. Yeah, maybe.

[A]

Really? I mean really? That, really?

[B]

That and whatever project you go into after NSX leaves.

[A]

Well, the Mercedes I think that we're still. We're still. We were still excited about that project actually because like the Manx, that's something we can actually like kind of use a lot. Which I think would be pretty fun. We saw at Rancho Santa Fe Cars and Coffee. One of the things we saw that Hannah really liked was a corduroy interior on a BMW CSL and she really liked that. And I could Absolutely. Get on board with corduroy. I've been thinking herringbone, but corduroy would be really fun, too. The other thing we saw was one of the boldest things I've. Did I. Oh, shit. I think I. Did I say this earlier on the show? My brain may have let me down. Did I say that? The boldest thing I saw down there was a Mitsubishi Evo 9 with Montana tags, and its hood just popped open. I was like, dude, you are. You're fucking riding the lightning, bro. That's crazy. This guy's in San Diego, like 2,500 miles from Montana. He's visiting.

[B]

He's still visiting.

[A]

He's visiting with the hood. Popped in his Evo, bro. Fucking so many. So many Montana tags on cars that didn't need them. Yeah, Habibis, these guys are rolling down there with fucking, like, 991s stock on Montana tags. Like, you fucking loser.

[B]

That's so lame.

[A]

You stink. Mark Farrar, the tired smoker wants thoughts on the Ulysse Nardan and Urwerk collaboration. Can you get a photo of that one? These are two companies that both make weird watches, and it is called the urfreak. And I happen to think these are cool. They call this a Wandering Hours Complicated. AP has come out with a similar watch. As a matter of fact, Mr. Segura is wearing the new AP Star Wheel in his new Special Teacher. Don't think I didn't catch that, Tommy Buns. It's a funny special. I do recommend it. It is funny. He spends the first fucking 15 minutes talking shit about people who ride Vespas, which is quality. But, yeah, no, I think this is cool. I mean, this is already a complication that Urwerk has done before, and it is sort of halfway between the Ulysse Nardin Freak and the Urwerk, whatever their other Wandering Hours watch is. But it's pretty cool. So basically, this thing in the center, it spins, and then also there' sit's a triangle. There's three points to it, and each point has a tumbler on it. And those things spin.

[B]

That's cool.

[A]

And then go back up to the dial and they all spin together. And then you can see 0 to 60 down the right side of the watch. So the one that is pointing upward when it hits the zero, and it will remain upward as it goes through to the 60. That's. So this watch we have on the screen is showing 845. It's pretty sweet. It's a pretty fun complication. Oh, good. It's only $122,000.

[B]

I was gonna say, this doesn't sound cheap.

[A]

No, no, no, it's not cheap.

[B]

That's pretty clever. That is very clever stuff.

[A]

Wow. Yeah, that's. Those are. Those are really fun. I mean, I, you know, I get why those are very expensive. They're made in very small numbers and they're just really fucking cool.

[B]

Is it really thick? Cause it has all this tumbler stuff.

[A]

It was 44 millimeters wide. Go back to the. It's probably not so thin. See, if you go up, see technical data, the. Right. Let's see what the case size is. This is 13.77. That is a chonky boy. Yeah, it's a chonky boy. We call that a summer watch. Short sleeves, not under your long sleeves. Yeah, not terrible. Like, you can see some shit that gets up to like 15. But yeah. Christian says your how to drive a manual video did very, very well. Would you make a video of teaching someone how to drive a manual? A fan or obviously a female would do numbers. I don't think there's benefit to the audience there. That video is meant to teach you, the audience, how to drive stick. Seeing someone else learning, I don't think would give the same kind of benefit. Gin and Taconic State Parkway. Would I ever do a personal garage tour video? I mean, no, I don't think. I don't like the, hey, look at my stuff videos. And like, the cars are all over the place. They're at different places and. And it's just. I don't know. You. You know what they are. You don't. You don't need to see them.

[B]

I feel like we do a lot of content, like on the podcast, but also we always do a video about each car separately.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so just doing the same thing to bring them all together seems really redundant.

[A]

There's people that do that stuff, and I'm not trying to knock their hustle if their content is just about their own cars. But I try to keep that stuff to a minimum. I feel weird doing it. Johnny E.V. geuberman got a 1972 Omega Seamaster Deville as a hand me down for Christmas. It needs a service. Are there any Instagram lottery stores you would recommend? Better off taking it to my local watch shop. I don't know about Instagram restorers. I would do one of two things. Take it to your independent watch shop or send it to my independent watch shop. Those are the two things. If you live in a major city, just Google independent watch service, repair and Find a place with great ratings. Fortunately, that watch is common enough that there's parts and whatever and it can be so serviced. If not, shout out to Marina Bay Watch Company in Marina del Rey. Del Rey. Ask for Mike and you can FedEx it in and they'll work on it. So yeah, Speedy P says. Oh, oh, that was. Sorry. Thanks Speedy P. But we already kind of did that one earlier in the show. Xander Davis, 15 says, what do I do as a civilian to get the knowledge that you gained by getting the press watches without spending stupid money and buying the wrong watches because they look good on Instagram? That is easy. You try them on. I mean, excuse me, I should rephrase. That is simple, not easy. Like almost any watch watch has a way to try it on. Somehow you might have to go somewhere, you might have to order one that has a return policy. You might have to find a watch group where maybe one. But the only way to do that is to try the watch on. I was fortunate. I got to wear it for a little while so I got to to learn a little more than you might. But like most of these watches, you put them on once or you wear them for a very, very short period of time and you kind of get it. Matt's missing Countach part says, what is the worst million dollar plus car? That's kind of funny. The worst, the worst million dollar plus car.

[B]

Well, there's probably something out there that's like old rare that we wouldn't care about that sold for a million dollars. Like something.

[A]

I think the question is trying to get us to say the worst new. Yeah, you know, million dollar car. That's.

[B]

I mean I don't want to say the worst one. I think, I think I've said on here like where I would put my money if I was going to buy a million dollar car and where I wouldn't put my money.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, I would put like I'd buy a Koenigsegg. Although I hear they have reliability issues. But they have a lot of new techs. Of course they do. Or singers are too expensive for that. But you know, or a roof, like a roof is worth a million dollars.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So the cars I'm skipping are the places I would not put my million dollars.

[A]

Yeah, there's that coach built Bentley thing, I think it was called the Bacalar or something that was effectively like a GT convertible with like a kind of a coach built body on it and that was a million dollars and you could have that.

[B]

I'm sure there's like some Mansory cars where the price that's added, it's 20 or 50 grand of carbon, but they charge 100 or 200 for it. It adds to the price tag and I don't see the value there.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, probably the 959 Porsche just because of the service. The service costs are so crazy and there's so few people places you could take it, you know, like the 6x6.

[B]

Like the crazy Mercedes probably that. That's really dumb.

[A]

Yeah. A 6x6 could be the worst million dollar car for sure. Yeah. There. Well, Dre from Houston wants a story on a car that there isn't a story on. Unfortunately. Unfortunately. I want to go fast. You say like Dracula. I want to go fast. That's not a very good Dracula. Sorry.

[B]

I want to go fast.

[A]

Thoughts on the W211E63AMG wagons? I'm pretty sure these were sold in the US they just were not sold in big numbers.

[B]

Review from Current Driver about it.

[A]

Yeah, they were sold in the U.S. i mean, it's, you know, fine head studs, right? E63s head studs. All E63s. Other than that, wagons are good. You know, cheap speed.

[B]

It's a good loud wagon.

[A]

Yeah, Cheap speed. I reviewed the E63 non wagon. Wait, can you get a picture of the 211? Is that the four headlight? Four eyes headlight.

[B]

That's this one.

[A]

Yeah. 07. I reviewed that certainly as a sedan. So that's buried back in there somewhere. That's rad. Yeah, Fast wagon is good. No new revelations on old E63s though. Let's see. See that? Jim Khanna. I do not know the answer. I have no idea. Can you scroll down? Zach, Chris from Colorado says a few episodes ago you talked about this ground up 911t that Zach drove. You said mileage doesn't matter for a full restoration, which makes sense. Is. Is it a thing for people to buy aftermarket odometers and start it at zero? Singer does that at zero. So what should the cutoff be for restarting an odometer? I mean, once a car has been fully torn down to nothing. I don't really give a shit anymore. I think an odometer at zero could be beneficial. The title might say tm. You know, true mileage unknown. It would have to be a pretty big build. Gunther Singer. They do zero mile cars. Did you know what this one was?

[B]

Did you remember what the said?

[A]

Was it rolled back to zero? Did it look like it?

[B]

I don't think so. I'd have to look at my stuff, but I don't think it was rolled back to zero.

[A]

It wouldn't make much of a difference for me. Please. For me, Please. I don't know why I said please there. What is the. What is the cutoff for me? I would say if I was tearing a car down to the shell, I would consider it. But if I knew I had an accurate odometer anyway, I might just leave it alone so that I didn't have to do the DMV paperwork and answer to, like, somebody later, you know, I think the car would probably have to be pretty substantially changed, too. Like, if I was restoring it, like, to factory. If it was just old and tired and I was restoring it to factory, I wouldn't restore the. I wouldn't do zero miles.

[B]

I mean, those cars, the other ones also leave the fact, like, they leave this building called a Singer reimagined by or whatever.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I think you add some of that into it. It's definitely a murky area, you know? Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, it is a thing for certain people to start it at zero, but I. I wouldn't probably do it most of the time if I was doing my own build. Yeah. Anything else? Is that it?

[B]

No, that's it.

[A]

Great. Great. Well, please don't get drunk and drive home. Particularly on New Year's. It's bad to do all the time, but it's really dumb.

[B]

This episode's airing Friday after New Year's because the one we do tomorrow with nsf.

[A]

Well, I hope you had a good New Year's.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you're listening to this, then you didn't die on New Year's, so that's good.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

That's a baseline. You should buy Kristen's book if you have kids. I'll be sending this to the young people in my life. Hope Zach doesn't mind. And, yeah, thank you to our patrons and to whoever bought the nsx. I hope that went well in the future. Past. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we'll see you guys later.

[B]

Bye.