Spyder Problem; Jaguar's Concept Parking Sensors Solved; Q&A

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Smoking Tire – Episode: Spyder Problem; Jaguar's Concept Parking Sensors Solved; Q&A

Release Date: December 10, 2024

Hosts: Zack Klapman and Matt Farah

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1. Episode Overview

In this episode of The Smoking Tire, hosts Zack Klapman and Matt Farah delve into a variety of automotive topics, including the peculiar issues with the Spyder, the intricacies of Jaguar's concept parking sensors, and a comprehensive Q&A session addressing listener inquiries. The conversation weaves through personal anecdotes, technical discussions, and humorous exchanges, providing listeners with both entertainment and insightful automotive knowledge.

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2. Autonomous Vehicles and Waymo

The hosts kick off the discussion with a lighthearted conversation about Kyle Connor's experience with Tesla's Full Self-Driving (FSD) feature. Matt shares a humorous anecdote highlighting the inconsistencies of FSD:

Matt Farah [00:02:37]: "New FSD seems game changing right up until it drives into a curb."

Zack and Matt explore the current state of autonomous vehicles, particularly Waymo's advancements and their deployment challenges. They ponder the feasibility of conducting a live podcast episode using a Waymo Robo Taxi, discussing potential logistics and technical requirements.

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3. Ineos Grenadier and ADAS Features

An email from David Tuig initiates an in-depth discussion on the Ineos Grenadier, specifically focusing on Advanced Driver-Assistance Systems (ADAS). Matt summarizes David's insights on European car manufacturers' approach to ADAS feature accessibility:

Matt Farah [00:12:04]: "ADAS sucks except for automatic emergency braking, which is genuinely a lifesaver."

Key points include:

• European regulations mandate ADAS features to be active upon startup without requiring convoluted processes to disable them.
• Manufacturers balance legal liability and user satisfaction, leading to varying levels of ADAS disablement ease.
• Examples of solutions from BMW, Ford, Renault, and Hyundai highlight industry efforts to improve user control over ADAS features.

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4. Inconsistencies in Autonomous Driving Behavior

Zack shares his observations of the Ineos Grenadier's autonomous driving behavior, noting issues with speed limit recognition and lane positioning:

Zach Klapman [00:17:32]: "The Grenadier has speed limit sign recognition, but it was wrong a lot."

Matt concurs, adding that similar issues have been observed in other vehicles, emphasizing the current limitations of autonomous driving technologies.

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5. Listener Q&A: Automotive Advice and Insights

The bulk of the episode features a robust Q&A segment where Matt and Zack address various listener-submitted questions. Topics range from restoring vintage watches to selecting the best EVs for performance maneuvers. Notable discussions include:

a. Choosing Affordable Sports Sedans

For listeners seeking an upgrade from models like the F80 M3 to a new Blackwing, Zack recommends aiming for higher-tier models like the CT5 Blackwing over the CT4V Blackwing for a more distinct driving experience.

b. Managing Car Maintenance and Aesthetics

Matt shares his experience with the Ineos Grenadier’s gear indicator glitch, attributing it to potential sensor confusion, while Zack discusses the meticulous process of prepping his vehicle for a wrap, humorously likening the process to a paintball battle.

c. Enhancing Daily Driving Comfort

A listener question about the Ford Explorer ST leads to an evaluation of its ride quality, interior features, and overall suitability as a daily driver. Matt appreciates the car's performance aspects but critiques its fixed suspension for urban use.

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6. Bashar Al Assad's Car Collection

The hosts briefly touch upon a video showcasing Bashar Al Assad's extensive car collection, listing various high-end models observed in the footage. They speculate on the practicality and security measures likely in place for such a collection.

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7. Ford Explorer ST Review

Matt provides an in-depth review of the Ford Explorer ST, highlighting:

• Performance: 400 horsepower EcoBoost engine, rear-wheel drive setup, and sport-tuned suspension.
• Interior Comfort: Features like three-zone lumbar massage seats, though noting the noise from the massage function.
• Driving Dynamics: Agile steering and a composed ride, albeit with a too-stiff suspension for city driving.

Zack complements the review by sharing his excitement over his upcoming Bridgestone Potenza RS tires for winter, enhancing the Explorer's grip and performance.

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8. Support and Patreon Discussion

The hosts discuss their Patreon offerings, encouraging listeners to support the show for an ad-free experience, early access to content, and exclusive merchandise. They humorously debate the viability of introducing a $1 tier but conclude with existing tier benefits, such as perks and early content access.

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9. Concluding Remarks and Upcoming Content

Before signing off, Matt announces a temporary hiatus from podcasting in January due to extensive travel plans. However, they assure listeners that premium patrons will receive additional content during this break. The episode wraps up with gratitude towards their supporters and a teaser for upcoming videos, including a review of the Ferrari Puro.

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Notable Quotes

• Matt Farah [00:12:04]: "ADAS sucks except for automatic emergency braking, which is genuinely a lifesaver."
• Zach Klapman [00:02:37]: "New FSD seems game changing right up until it drives into a curb."
• Matt Farah [00:22:00]: "I'd rather have an air-cooled car than a 996."
• Zach Klapman [00:56:25]: "I think the CT5 with sound, torque, power is going to feel like a new experience."

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Conclusion

This episode of The Smoking Tire offers a blend of technical automotive discussions, personal experiences, and engaging listener interactions. Zack and Matt adeptly navigate through complex topics like ADAS regulations and autonomous vehicle behaviors while maintaining a relatable and entertaining dialogue. Whether you're an automotive enthusiast or a casual listener, this episode provides valuable insights and a glimpse into the evolving landscape of the automotive industry.

Transcript

[Matt Farah]

What's up, everybody? Welcome to the Smoke and Tire Podcast. Today's episode is, as always, brought to you by off the Record. We love off the Record over here at tst. And I had not one, not two, three emails this week from people who used off the Record and got tickets fully dismissed. Different states, different people. It was a lovely thing to see off the Record doing their job. If you get a moving violation of any kind, big or small in the US get off the record, go to offtherecord.com TST or download the off the Record app and use code TST Pod TSTpod. From there, off the Record, we'll fight that ticket on your behalf and in the vast majority of cases, get it totally dismissed or drastically reduced. Off the Record is the best. You gotta have it in your pocket, ready to go. That way if you get pinched, it's no big deal. You got people in the game. Again, offtherecord.com TST or code TST pod TST P O D on that off the Record app. Do it now. It's a crew show. We're in studio. I'm talking about the new Ford Explorer ST plus we talk our final thoughts on the Ineos Grenadier and the Cadillac Blackwing with precision package. There's a lot going on. Plus my demand. Spider does a weird thing. We talk about what that weird thing is. We take a look at Bashar Al Assad's car collection, which is, if you ask me, not bad and a whole lot more. It's the Smoking Tire podcast. Let's go. Did you see? I mean, I gotta say, I love Kyle Connor. He's a good friend. It's a good fellow industry person, does a good job of his channel. One of the funniest posts in the fucking. Oh yeah, history it was posting was him bragging about model FSD, whatever, 4.26, whatever the fuck is. He's like, this FSD is incredible. Someone's got a every. If everyone's not doing this, they're really missing out. And then like three minutes later, it was like, he's just drove into a. Drove into a curve.

[Zach Klapman]

Man, he is. Oh, this is old. I don't know. But yeah, that was the thing. He was like, it's incredible. Oh, my God, there were so many. It was so funny because you sent that to me.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And so it's in your text. It's in my text in the morning. And then when I went to YouTube later, there were a bunch of posts being recommended about new FSD is Game changing world. And I was just like. I had this text though.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And that's the AI answer. You know, YouTube algorithm is saying, yeah, new FSD is perfect.

[Matt Farah]

New FSD seems game changing right up until it drives into curb is the headline. That's your headline. You need a complete headline.

[Zach Klapman]

That's always the headline with fsd.

[Matt Farah]

I thought it was game changing and then it drove into a curb. So. Yeah, fucking Waymo is like dumping Jaguar. I paces into this neighborhood. Dumping them. They're all over the place. We gotta.

[Zach Klapman]

Can you just.

[Matt Farah]

Can you look on the app store? I feel like. I feel like I'm kind of an idiot right now. But, like, how do we get away Mo?

[Zach Klapman]

I think we just.

[Matt Farah]

We just have to get the app and it's like. And then it's like an Uber Waymo.

[Zach Klapman]

One autonomous ride healing.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

Get the app.

[Matt Farah]

I think we need to do a. Yep. Should we do a show from a Waymo? How do we make that work?

[Zach Klapman]

Well, we could definitely do a video. I mean, I think it could be. We could probably Robo Taxi.

[Matt Farah]

Alex Roy probably knows the head of PR at Waymo. We could probably just like, actually, like, we probably don't. I mean, okay, let's assume the app works for calling one, but like, we could probably just like get one for what we need it for rather than just like hail a ride. That's like eight minutes somewhere. We could like actually set up cameras.

[Zach Klapman]

We book it. We pick a ride an hour away. Oh, yeah, I think we like go. All right, let's go get lunch downtown.

[Matt Farah]

I don't know the odd. I don't know where the. Where the borders are, where they can't go.

[Zach Klapman]

That's true.

[Matt Farah]

I don't know if you can go across town. You might be able to like, not go very far.

[Zach Klapman]

I will find out.

[Matt Farah]

We'll have to figure it out. But I'd like to. I'd like to. I'd like to do a podcast in a real level for autonomous vehicle.

[Zach Klapman]

100%. Well, I wanted to go for a ride when they did the test market here, but it was like one. I didn't realize they were only doing one day per neighborhood. That was like six months ago.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And it was like way have arrived in Santa Monica and I said, oh, we should do a show. And then it was like, they're gone. Now they're downtown, now they're Pasadena, but now they're here.

[Matt Farah]

But we're. We're. We're us. We also don't have to just like do the Thing that.

[Zach Klapman]

But I think it's better to get the real experience.

[Matt Farah]

You know, we should. We should, but. But for what? For what we really care about. The experience is what happens once you get in the car and close the door.

[Zach Klapman]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

Not necessarily the app. The hailing of it.

[Zach Klapman]

Oh, that's a good.

[Matt Farah]

It's good consumer advice, but it's not where, like, you and I are focused.

[Zach Klapman]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

Like that. That has been solved in software. I'll give Waymo that. They can make an app that's like Uber. That works.

[Zach Klapman]

No, no, totally. But I think there's a honesty to if we just order one versus if we. If we contact pr. Let's say this is speculation. They set up, like, a code and.

[Matt Farah]

Then they juiced Waymo.

[Zach Klapman]

Juice Waymo or someone. You know, Then it's like they might.

[Matt Farah]

Give us a dedicated, you know, backup driver.

[Zach Klapman]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

You know what I mean? Like, instead of the guy watching like, six.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. No, I think we should do it as the public would do it.

[Matt Farah]

Right.

[Zach Klapman]

And we just pick the fur location or multiple errands or something. I don't know.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, that's probably right. That's fine. I guess it's. I was trying to, like, have it so we could create a little better content as opposed to, like, hand holding. All of it.

[Zach Klapman]

I just, like, still set up cameras. Oh, yeah. I don't know. I'm not saying oh, yeah. We're coming in there with suction cup for sure.

[Matt Farah]

You think it's suction cups or clamp mounts?

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, we need it. Yeah. We'll just have everything in the backpack and just.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

If we pick. If we can pick us a route that is an hour or 45 minutes.

[Matt Farah]

Right.

[Zach Klapman]

It'll take us three minutes to set up cameras.

[Matt Farah]

And at what point do we start, you know, like, doing really obscene things back there?

[Zach Klapman]

I need a pay raise. What are we talking about? Soup kitchen? What are we talking about here? I mean, you want to try to mess with it? Is that.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, I was thinking maybe mess with it a little bit.

[Zach Klapman]

Sure. We should try.

[Matt Farah]

See who's watching. You never know.

[Zach Klapman]

Cover a rainbow and see what happens.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, like what? Like what is the line between someone coming over the speakerphone and be like, sure you can't do that? And like the thing driving through a police station, like, where does that line.

[Zach Klapman]

I feel like its defense mechanism is to stop.

[Matt Farah]

Right.

[Zach Klapman]

People put the cone on the hood.

[Matt Farah]

It stops just right in the middle of the intersect. Get out.

[Zach Klapman]

Right. Yeah. That's all it can do, is make you feel Uncomfortable by sitting still.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, but like, do you smoke a blunt in there? Do you take your pants off? Like, what level of are we going for here? Do you like brandish?

[Zach Klapman]

You do that. That's illegal.

[Matt Farah]

Who are you pulling it on?

[Zach Klapman]

That's what I'm saying exactly.

[Matt Farah]

What if you just start cleaning it?

[Zach Klapman]

Oh, can you brandish at a robot if there's no one? This is like if there's no one around, pretty sure the Supreme Court is.

[Matt Farah]

Going to make it. So like robots are people. It's like instead of Citizens United, it's going to be like computers United.

[Zach Klapman]

Everyone's a person except for people.

[Matt Farah]

Corporations and robots are now people. Humans are now.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, that's a good question.

[Matt Farah]

Whoa, it's happening outside.

[Zach Klapman]

I heard you. The robots are coming, man. Fuck. It'll be fun. It'll be interesting to see. I mean we're gonna be, you know, critical of its driving ability and its throttle application and lane choice. I bet it will have better lane discipline than most people. Everyone who turns right at a light tracks out right. Everybody likes to track out after Apex. But you're technically not supposed to do that.

[Matt Farah]

I haven't, I haven't. I mean this is not data, what I have witnessed with my own eyes. But there's a fucking. I mean there's so many of them in the neighborhood that I brought this up. This was not a planned topic I brought. I was observing them and I think it was just shift change when we came, when I was driving over here or they go to bed at like 4pm Shift change, you know, whatever Change. Yeah, whatever it is. Because there was a line of four of them in a row going to I think turning up Sepulveda, which I think is where the depot is somewhere up there.

[Zach Klapman]

But Eva, did you watch Wally?

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, the. But. Yeah, we should get rides. Definitely. But I think you're right, we do have to. We have to make sure they haven't juice the fucking.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, we'll figure out the operational area and then see how far we can go. Or just do it at rush hour. Doesn't matter if it's two miles, it's still gonna take 40 minutes.

[Matt Farah]

I haven't seen any of them do like anything really, really crazy in front of me. One this morning between the house and here. Really? It was like. It tried to move into the left lane to turn left but like way before it actually needed to turn left and it was kind of like slowing up traffic to hmm like way like three lights ahead of. Cuz I kept being there. It Was. It wasn't like terrible, but it was.

[Zach Klapman]

Like it moved into the left middle lane.

[Matt Farah]

But no, not the center turn lane. Like it just. It moved from the middle lane to the left lane at a time of high traffic, like creating like a little bit worse traffic for a minute, even though it didn't need to make that left for like a long time.

[Zach Klapman]

Oh, I guess I get you. Okay.

[Matt Farah]

It wasn't. Not a. Not a fatal error.

[Zach Klapman]

You know what? People would do that. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

It's not. It wasn't the worst.

[Zach Klapman]

What if they programmed in some flaws to mimic bad driving? They're like, this will make the human like Hyundai's shift. Yeah. Oh, like the sounds.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, like the battles and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Make the fake humanize. Humanize.

[Zach Klapman]

Humanize the robot. Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Now what type of human would you like, criminalize?

[Zach Klapman]

Now we're in Demolition Man.

[Matt Farah]

Have you seen De Niro Taxi Driver?

[Zach Klapman]

Who?

[Matt Farah]

Your driver has nothing to live for. And 325 credit.

[Zach Klapman]

Oh, that's funny. Upload different drivers. Jason statham in Transporter 1.

[Matt Farah]

Your driver did not take their meds this morning. So anyway, cars, cars, cars, cars, cars, cars. There's some things happening. We can just go right to the emails that we got as follow ups from last show. Yeah, folks, we gotta take a quick break and the holidays are here and it's time. This is the best. This is the best gift for your parents, your grandparents or other family members, particularly if they are not the most tech savvy. Right. It's weird to get them a tech adjacent gift, but the aura frames is perfect because it's tech but it's easy and it doesn't require the person you give it to to really do much of anything. I' my parents on the other coasts, I've got my siblings on the other coast. And Zach just got married and needed a way to effectively give photos to his parents and his new wife's parents. Aura frames dot com. It's the Carver mat frames. Okay. Basically, here's how it works. You give them the frame. It's connected to an online account which you put pictures in the frames then appear in their house. Did I describe that exactly right?

[Zach Klapman]

We did it. It was fairly simple. And we were able to give my mom this frame that just played wedding photos for her.

[Matt Farah]

Right.

[Zach Klapman]

We can add the photos, we can take them away. And we gave her access on the app and she can do it. She's text heavy enough to do that, but we were able to just curate this thing instead of printing a photo album that will sit on a table or any of that stuff. It's way, way better if you got.

[Matt Farah]

Kids and you got parents, right? You just dump the photos kids and then the grandparents get them. It's like totally instant. Takes like two minutes to set up. It's got free unlimited storage. The photos look like real prints in the frame. You can send videos and photos from any device and they'll instantly appear in the frame wherever it is in the world. No memory cards required. It is aw some save on the perfect gift by visiting auraframes.com that's a u r a frames.com to get $35 off Aura's best selling Carver matte frame using Promot promo code tire at checkout. That's a U R A frames.com promo code tire. This deal is exclusive to TST listeners, so get yours now in time for the holidays. Promo code tire terms and conditions apply. Now back to the show. There is an email from our friend David Tuig, who knows a thing or two about how cars are built and how they work a little bit. And this is a very long email. I'm not going to read the whole thing, but we were discussing the Ineos Grenadier specifically. And we're not going to. I'm not hating on that car specifically, but a lot of the new European cars are, well, all of them are mandated to have these ADAS features and a lot of them are not doing a very good job of making the features very easy to turn off, which is what people who care about driving want. So we asked, is that intentional or not? Basically? And the answer is, so David says, and this is, I'm not going to read the whole email, but I'm going to have to read a lot of it because it's not straightforward, right? The question is, do car makers have to bury the off switch deep in the menus? And the answer is no, they don't. The Euro regulation basically requires that when you start the car up, the ADAS features are on. They do not require that it's hard to turn them off. So this stuff is new and so everyone's trying to figure out like what level of difficult it should be to turn them off. They're all kind of taking their first stab at it, right? And the carmakers are worried by the possibility of someone inadvertently turning the system off, having a crash and then suing them for the accident, right? So like, even though in Europe they're like less litigious than in the US they're catching up. And so at least the automakers are concerned about the lawsuits or the possibility of lawsuits. So you know, certain companies are willing to make it a little easier to turn them off and other companies are not based on their like level of tolerance for that. So there are other options. So the more cautious carmakers have buried their off switches deep in the bowels of the infotainment, fully conscious that it will annoy many customers but terrified at making a legal error. Happily, others have tried to better balance their fear of litigation with trying to keep the customer happy and have come up with better solutions. BMW, for example, lets you press and hold the cruise control set button for two seconds to turn the system fully off. And Ford has done something similar. Renault, and hopefully this will also mean Alpine have a dedicated quote my safety button that needs to be pressed and held to do the job. No messing with menus. JLR has done something similar. Some others, including Hyundai, for example, have added a programmable quote favorite button on the steering wheel that can be set to execute certain regular functions, including disabling ADAs. So which actually Eneos has that favorite button. But it doesn't get you all the way. It just gets you to the menu to disable.

[Zach Klapman]

I still appreciate because it's a hard. I know where it is.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And then the screen pops up. I have some other complaints about that. But we'll get to it, right?

[Matt Farah]

Better than nothing. But. But that's what. That's their solution. And remember Lynn said that she was trying to come up with an update to program the turn off all ADAs to the favorite. So removing that step hopefully maybe an over the air update or even a hard update at some point there. And so yeah, there's. He then goes on to say ADAS sucks ass except for automatic emergency braking, which is genuinely a lifesaver. Typically doesn't ruin the driving experience and you never really know it's there until you need it. And the good news is AEB is generally not disabled when you turn off the rest of adas. So yeah, thank you, David. That is a excellent, thorough answer.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, the INEOS is weird because it has, you know, speed limit recognition ability, but it's wrong a lot. What?

[Matt Farah]

Ineos.

[Zach Klapman]

What did I say?

[Matt Farah]

Ineos. It's a fine line. It's a fine line.

[Zach Klapman]

Ineos.

[Matt Farah]

You must.

[Zach Klapman]

The grenadier.

[Matt Farah]

You must speak this acronym exactly as.

[Zach Klapman]

What does it stand for? I'll pronounce it.

[Matt Farah]

It doesn't stand for anything. Oh, the whole company. Oh, it's like international inspec.

[Zach Klapman]

Ethylene oxide in specialties.

[Matt Farah]

Okay, rolls off the tongue.

[Zach Klapman]

The inspec. Ethylene Oxide in Specialties Grenadier has speed limit sign recognition. But it was wrong a lot. Now it wasn't just wrong. I was on the highway. I drove it to San Diego and plenty of times it would see that 55 mile an hour limit for trailer vehicles. And it would then beep at me and say, hey, you're going faster than 55. But a couple of times out here, it thought I was on the highway and it thought I was on the road underneath the highway. It's like, hey, you're going over 40. And I went, I know I'm going over 40. I'm on the freeway.

[Matt Farah]

That happened to a couple of our EVs. One of the roads that we drove in Performance EV of the Year for testing ran right alongside, like Route 17. Same kind of thing. Like it was elevated highway. And then the road and the speed limit thing kept getting confused and thinking we were on one or the other.

[Zach Klapman]

And I'm sure they can update that and fix it, but that was just the only reason.

[Matt Farah]

Speaking of which, I don't know how comfortable you are talking about this. I'm gonna blow up your fucking spot. Anyway, I was wrong about what the quartermaster is. And maybe someone reached out to you because I thought the quartermaster is like master of quarters, like an estate manager. We joked about that on the show we recorded in the car. It's actually the person who gets the guns.

[Zach Klapman]

Oh, no.

[Matt Farah]

Yes. It's the person who has all the guns. And so.

[Zach Klapman]

So when I drove down to Diego to go to a store to get.

[Matt Farah]

Your gun, the quartermaster.

[Zach Klapman]

That is amazing. Oh, man.

[Matt Farah]

You use the truck as the good Lord intended.

[Zach Klapman]

I have to tell you, 75 miles per hour. I passed in that area. I passed a lot of Raptors. Bronco Raptors, a lot of Jeeps. I was very happy with the highway manners of the inspec. Ethylene oxide specialties. Grenadier versus those other cars.

[Matt Farah]

Really? The ride is good, but not the steering.

[Zach Klapman]

I think the steering is better or on par with the last wrangler I drove.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, yeah, because the Wranglers are circulating the trade off.

[Zach Klapman]

I mean, the steering on the Bronco is much better, but it's so loud on the highway. At least when I drove the normal. The Badlands, like it was too loud to have a normal conversation. The ineos is definitely quieter. Yeah, but I don't remember the Raptor.

[Matt Farah]

You mean with wind noise?

[Zach Klapman]

Wind noise. The wind noise in the car was nuts.

[Matt Farah]

Well, you know, with the Bronco, it's like when the panels are designed to be removable by hand, totally. They don't need to fit together as tightly. You know, I think they're probably lighter some way.

[Zach Klapman]

I mean, they have their ability. I'm just. It is one of my only real complaints with the Bronco is the noise on the highway was like, quite deafening. So this is pretty comfortable and the ride is fine. So the email I got. So I. On the same show that we recorded in the inspec. Ethylene oxide specialties, granted a year. Yes, I'm going to keep doing it. I asked the world the last time.

[Matt Farah]

I'm going to make you do it without looking at the screen.

[Zach Klapman]

Oh, man. Okay. I asked the universe of the podcast universe why when I'm reversing In my wife's RAV4, the front sensors go off, but when you drive forward and you're close to something, the rear sensors do not alert at all. And someone who worked for Toyota, I'll leave their name out of it, they're an engineer for them, Had a very simple answer that when I read it, I went, oh, that makes so much sense. So this is true for basically all cars. The front of the car is a leading edge. So most people, when they're reversing, are looking at the camera or they're over their shoulder. They're not looking forward. And if you turn the wheels, the front of your car will swing the.

[Matt Farah]

Nose of the car.

[Zach Klapman]

But when you pull forward, the rear of a car always follows the rear wheels. It doesn't swing out. So that's basically the short answer. Yeah, it makes a ton of sense.

[Matt Farah]

It's real obvious.

[Zach Klapman]

It's very obvious. But when you're operating the car, you're like, I'm going backwards. What do you like? What is wrong with you?

[Matt Farah]

Well, especially in the way you describe, because you said you were parked with the nose up against a wall, you put the car in reverse and the front parking sensors started going off and.

[Zach Klapman]

I'm going to straight back.

[Matt Farah]

So in that very specific scenari, this seems dumb, but if you're, you know, doing some other maneuver where you're trying to reverse through a, you know, a maze of cars, it would be very helpful.

[Zach Klapman]

Or if you turn the wheel too much and you swing toward the pillar of the parking garage, it goes, hey, you're about to hit me. And that's very helpful. You know, the front sensor goes off. So it makes a lot of sense.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, that's a good one. So it has been two years since I got my Spyder. The first weird thing happened. This one's kind of fun, funny and I actually got video of it. The gear indicator in the cluster for one cycle. Yesterday I did four cycles in the car, meaning on like I started it, I drove it to the gas station, I turned it off.

[Zach Klapman]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

I started it four cycles right on cycle number two. Only it thought it was in the wrong gear. Meaning like I would, I had this shifter in fourth and the little gear on the gauge cluster was flickering between three and four. And then I put it in fifth and it said four and then I put it in sixth and it said six and then back to five and it said four again, same thing.

[Zach Klapman]

And so sounds like a sensor.

[Matt Farah]

So when I, when I would go into the gears that it got wrong, the check engine light would come on and then when I put it in the gear that it was right, they would come back, it would go away. So next cycle it went away, it didn't come back. So I don't know if that's just like a whoopsie hiccup or if it has to do with the fact that I have an aftermarket gear set. I don't know, am I making myself paranoid or. It didn't come back. So if something happens once and then never happens again, you go huh? And then that's it. But like we'll see.

[Zach Klapman]

I don't know. My gut reaction as a non tech for cars is like it seems like a sensor's confused. Yeah. Maybe it changed when you moved it. It only had the effect on 3 and 4 but not 5 and 6.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

So I don't know, maybe there's a little electric thing that gets confused. Maybe because the gear set, I mean, I don't know, it shouldn't change the.

[Matt Farah]

Position of the shifter.

[Zach Klapman]

Right. And it seems like it's based on the position of the shifter, but I don't know how that system works. Oh, that's weird. Well look, of all the things that could possibly go wrong with the vehicle.

[Matt Farah]

No. And it didn't change how car drove. It was like no, no problems.

[Zach Klapman]

But it's like driving the new vantage, you don't know what gear you're in, but that's okay.

[Matt Farah]

So, but I, you know, my car now has PS4s on it. You have new tires, PS4s's so they, we put them on he at BBI and then I drove the car home and I went to the Canyons yesterday and it was and it was the first run up Los Flores. The tires were still, like. Still had, like, stickers on them, basically. Like, they still had that, you know, so the first couple miles, it was just like, traction control. Traction control. Okay. All right, fine. No, no, no traction control. Go away. Normally with the other tires, like, you can really leave traction control on. Like, it's. You're not bringing traction most of the time. So. Fine. Traction control off Now. Now I'm getting, like, wheel spin in, like, third gear.

[Zach Klapman]

Really?

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

Where you were not with the other ones.

[Matt Farah]

No. And so. And so now I've realized, I think. And I've not. They feel better after I did about, I don't know, 80 miles. And so now they feel better. Got some heat in them. And I think that we'll see the next time I drive it. But, like, I was like, the car now has wheel spin in third gear, whereas it really. It only did in, like, certain situations at the very, very top. Now it does at, like, 6.

[Zach Klapman]

First of all, that's a blessing. Congratulations. That makes it exciting.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, it does.

[Zach Klapman]

But what is the treadwear rating of the old tires versus PS4s? Do you know?

[Matt Farah]

Oh, well, they were our compounds, right? Yeah, yeah. But I was like, I don't. I'm not going to the track. I don't need our compounds. I was like, oh, shit. Wait, maybe. Maybe we do both.

[Zach Klapman]

500 wheel horsepower, I mean.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, there's a difference. There is a difference. Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

I think we may also underestimate how sophisticated traction control is in some of the cars we drive that don't flash the light. But, you know, because we drive a lot of really fast, high powered shit, that PS4s, and we don't really feel or see that light going off. McLaren's Corvette Z06. But maybe it's more active than we think. Just kind of hiding.

[Matt Farah]

Well, if. Yeah, I mean, if you're putting the car into, like, track mode, say it will have a reduced traction control versus, like, tour or whatever. My car doesn't have modes. The manuals don't. The PDKs have different drive modes. The manuals don't.

[Zach Klapman]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

There's no sport mode or anything. So it's at what it's at all the time. So, yeah, it's very powerful. Great. It can overwhelm the tires.

[Zach Klapman]

Dude, wheel spin's fantastic.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, it's all right. It's pretty good. It's a good one. And it's very quiet on the highway. The PS4s's, they're nice.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, those are good.

[Matt Farah]

So we'll drive on those for a while, see how that goes. And if it's really not enough tire somehow, then we'll go back to the other tires.

[Zach Klapman]

I have Bridgestone Potenza Rs going on new apex wheels, like, at the end of the week on my car, which will be very sticky compared to the Vredestein hypertracks that are staying on the existing wheels.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

So very sticky in time for winter.

[Matt Farah]

How's the rest of that going?

[Zach Klapman]

Oh, the car looks like it was shot with a shotgun and then repaired. I mean, the amount of pits they filled.

[Matt Farah]

Really?

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, like, it's now prepped for paint for real. So they. They have a body. And. Have we talked about this on the show yet? I think tell you.

[Matt Farah]

I think maybe you just told me.

[Zach Klapman]

So. My car had clear coat peeling all over the place. And to put a wrap on it, they're like, look, we could do it, but you're gonna see all of these holes hits that you have. I mean, I have 140,000 miles of rock chips, all kinds of stuff. And they said to prep this, right. So it looks good and stays on for a long time. Like, what we should do is sand the clear down. I said, yeah, fine, because it looks like shit. It needs to get sanded if it was going to be painted anyway. But I didn't realize how meticulous they will be about addressing every little rock chip. So when I first went there after them telling me they were going to do this, the hood had 30 stickers on it that looked like they were marking crime in a city. And all of those stickers were places that they had sanded the clear and then filled a rock chip and then primered it and sanded again.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, wow.

[Zach Klapman]

So, I mean, the pictures are wild, dude. Like, it's just. It looks like a paintball match happened around my car.

[Matt Farah]

Wow. We thought this was going to be, like, an easy thing to do, you know, instead of painting the car.

[Zach Klapman]

Well, we did. But, I mean, to their credit, 405 and east, who runs the place? Like, they told me this beforehand. This wasn't a surprise. I just didn't know it would look this way. But I knew that it was. There was no turning back then. That's fine because the car looked like shit anyway. I didn't know how much attention was needed on cars with bad paint or bad clear coat. If you want to put a wrap on it properly. Because if you have a car with good clear and it's newish paint or whatever, they don't do this, obviously, they just clay bar your car. They do paint correction and then they put the film over it, and then when they take it off, it looks fine. But with my car, it would have ripped, you know, so much laminate and so much shit off eventually. And the bigger thing is that they said is when you put down, like, essentially, let's call it paint, but like, if you put down brand new paint looking film, all of those little holes and bumps and things will be noticeable.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

So he's like, why make the skin look perfect? But then what's underneath it, like, has all of these little cracks and things.

[Matt Farah]

So, yeah, if you lay a fucking sheet down on, like a lumpy mattress, you're gonna see the lumps.

[Zach Klapman]

Right, Exactly. So they got rid of all the lumps, so now it got washed today and they started putting film on the hood. But, man, it's. To see it is wild. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

I'll tell you what, on Instagram, doing wraps looks not easy, but, like, fast. What? Wow. Oh, wow. No, going back is right.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. Like, they sanded fenders.

[Matt Farah]

Holy shit. Dude.

[Zach Klapman]

I didn't know there's anything wrong with the fenders, but there were chips on the fenders.

[Matt Farah]

And this looks like the after in a fucking movie where it's like, enter Zach drives his BMW through the wall.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, that is exactly right.

[Matt Farah]

Zach drives through the bank, by the way.

[Zach Klapman]

Out of the bank. Then he speeds down the road. The car is fine, but it looks marred. Yeah. Sponsored by BMW. That's exactly what this is. This is.

[Matt Farah]

Wow. That's gnarly.

[Zach Klapman]

It's gnarly, dude. I first thought I was like, holy shit. And you know, I just didn't know had this many flaws, I think. Right. That's what I really didn't know. You know, I knew they were gonna sand the whole car. I didn't know they were gonna go right now, here's everything that's wrong with your vehicle. Here's everything we don't like about it.

[Matt Farah]

You're right now at the part of bar rescue where Jon Taffer is like, listen, motherfucker, all of this is your goddamn fault.

[Zach Klapman]

You have to take all these tables out. Why? The tables are fine.

[Matt Farah]

There's rats in there, there's cockroaches, your wife is about to divorce you, the chef is fucking your daughter. And. And you need to know about all of it right now before we go to commercial.

[Zach Klapman]

But. But kitchen morale is high. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

And when we come back from commercial, it's like, check out your new son.

[Zach Klapman]

Exactly.

[Matt Farah]

And they're hugging.

[Zach Klapman]

Exactly.

[Matt Farah]

They're hugging.

[Zach Klapman]

It'll be good. Yeah, it's. It's like when someone gets plastic surgery. It looks real rough for about a month. Feel like that's what it's doing.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. You're on the flight home from Turkey.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. I sat behind that guy. I told you. Guy with a hair transplant. He had, like, iodine stuck to his neck. And I went, you know, that guy doesn' he doesn't know anyone in this bus, so he doesn't give a shit.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

But I'm behind him. And it's quite a thing to see. Yeah, that's what this looks like. This is fresh hair plugs. But in six months, that guy's fucking. Yeah, he's. He's. The bar. The bar start or whatever.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Oh, speaking of the Middle east, should we look at Bashar Al Assad's car collection? Yeah, not quite. Sultana, Brunei, they were. What?

[Zach Klapman]

So they shot his plane down?

[Matt Farah]

Really?

[Zach Klapman]

Is that. I don't know why they have the cars now.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, I thought the cars were, like, in a bunker. I just saw, like, the. Not a bunker, like a warehouse or something. I just saw, like a walkthrough video. Maybe it was like.

[Zach Klapman]

I thought they took down his plane, but maybe he wasn't on it. But the news says.

[Matt Farah]

Guys, we gotta take one more quick break for Deleteme. I have been messing with Deleteme and I have seen the number of robo calls that I've gotten go down. I've seen the number of spam email that I've gotten go down. And delete me has helped, helped with all of that. Delete me is so easy. We put so much of our personal data out there when we're shopping online, signing up for stuff, buying tickets to things, you know, using websites, making accounts on services, all that stuff. They then sell your data, right? They have data brokers that buy that data in bulk and then they sell it. And that's how you end up with spam phishing, you know, like. Like harassment. All kinds of things can happen when the wrong people get your data. So I got Deleteme. I made an account, I gave them the information about myself that I might want deleted from the Internet, right? I gave them my address, my phone number, my email addresses, all that kind of stuff. My parents info, my sister's info, my wife's info, et cetera. And they took a couple of days, but then they came back and said, we found, like 1100 possible instances of your dating out there and your data being out there. And they started deleting stuff and I had to approve maybe 20 or 30 of them. But the rest of them, they just went ahead and did it. It was great. And they follow up. It's not just a one time thing. It's ongoing. It's a whole service. And it gets that stuff off those data broker websites and then keeps it off the data broker website. So today you can get 20% off your delete me plan. When you go to join join deleteme.com tire, that's joindelete me.com tire. And then use promo code tire at checkout. That's the only way to get 20% off joindelete me.com tire and then enter code tire at checkout. That's joindelete me.com Tire code tire. And now back to the program. There's some, there is some good shit in here. It's not Sultan and Brunei level stuff, but There's a Ferrari F50 in there. There's a Diablo, there's a LMO, two a lot of Land Rovers. Let's just. We can play the video for us to watch without playing it. So we get.

[Zach Klapman]

Wouldn't it be great if it's Robin Leach like Lifestyles of the Dictator and.

[Matt Farah]

Famous, Lifestyles of the Rich and Sad. Here we go. I like the bunker. The train into the bunker. We've got art.

[Zach Klapman]

We've got, yeah, four cans of Pepsi.

[Matt Farah]

Okay, here we go. Here we go. Cars. Let's full screen on the cars. Let's see what we've got. Okay, seven series BMWs. We got some Lexus Land Cruisers here. LM002, lot of Toyota FJs, S Class, Aston DB9. There's the Ferrari F50. I think that's a 430 Spider.

[Zach Klapman]

Zach. What?

[Matt Farah]

That's a 430 Spider.

[Zach Klapman]

Look at 720p. It's moving fast.

[Matt Farah]

I don't even think that's 720p. There's a Diablo, Mercedes 600 Pullman. Saddam had one of those too.

[Zach Klapman]

Looks like we've got a Escalade.

[Matt Farah]

Escalade.

[Zach Klapman]

Cameraman's moving so fast.

[Matt Farah]

Looks like a bunch of Cadillacs. There's an Audi R8. There's a quad. Some kind of BMW X something. Maybe that's a Mercedes sl.

[Zach Klapman]

Old quads, Motorcycles, SLS going.

[Matt Farah]

There's a Bentley gt. Some kind of weird.

[Zach Klapman]

It's got a couple weird rv. It looks like an armored rv. Yeah, more S classes.

[Matt Farah]

Bunch of S classes. Seven series is. Oh, there's a Rolls Ghost or Wraith. What is that, that's an Audi A8. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's pretty good, Pretty good collection. Lots of defenders.

[Zach Klapman]

Defender, man. His cameraman needs to calm down. Just too much espresso. Holy moly.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, not. But not bad. Pretty good, pretty good collection going there.

[Zach Klapman]

That was like 40 cars in that garage, you know. Probably.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

A quick guess. That's a lot of cars.

[Matt Farah]

A lot of. But a lot of them are like, like, you know, fleet cars. Right. Like all the S classes and the A8s, that's like, that's like Syrian motorcade shit.

[Zach Klapman]

Right. You gotta roll a little discreet.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And probably bulletproof.

[Matt Farah]

There's probably some bulletproof in there. Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

So the plane. There was a mystery plane that was shot down over Syria as Assad fled the country. That's why I got them mixed it.

[Matt Farah]

So on board was a Ferrari F50 valued at what?

[Zach Klapman]

Maybe. Yeah. But he was not on the plane.

[Matt Farah]

F50s is a crown jewel of any dictators collection.

[Zach Klapman]

That's a good car. I didn't like it as much as the 40 when I was young, but now looking at it and hearing the engine, I would prefer that one.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

I'm an F50 man myself. Mainly because I don't fit in an F40. But you know what? I do fit in. Zach. I didn't put the fucking photos up yet. Should I talk about it? The Explorer S. Yeah, yeah. Been driving the Ford Explorer st. This one is like. It's like three people at good vibes. Like what are you doing with that? But like several people who drive sports cars and sporty cars professionally. Oh, that's literally the car I'm driving were like, you need to drive this because it's shockingly good. Is it shockingly good? Shockingly good. So it's, it's a rear wheel drive only Explorer, not all wheel drive. And it has the 400 horsepower version of the 3 1/2 EcoBoost. Basically the same as the Bronco Raptor I think. And it's, it's tuned very sport. But it is a seven passenger SUV. It also has massage seats for $57,000.

[Zach Klapman]

Wow.

[Matt Farah]

I think it is the cheapest car I've ever driven that has massage seats. Although they are very noisy. They go. You can hear them, you can hear them going.

[Zach Klapman]

It's like the cooled seats in Dodge products tend to be loud above 2, 2 out of 3 fans are very loud.

[Matt Farah]

So so many people told me I need to drive this. And I was like, what is this hype about? So it. Long story short, Is. I don't really know what they're talking about. Like, it's, it's okay. It's rear wheel drive. So if you drive for say television commercials and I said, how is it? You would go, it's great. Because you could probably slide it at.

[Zach Klapman]

El Mirage on the dirt. You could slide it for a shot.

[Matt Farah]

So if someone said, who happens to drive in commercials goes, you should try the st, it's better than my macan. It may be for a specific car commercially thing that does not apply to driving it around LA for a week. So anyway, here's the good thing. It. It's pretty fast. It's actually pretty agile. The steering is nice. It's got a pretty quick ratio and a good turning radius. The seats are really good. They're very comfortable. It's got a three zone lumbar so you can do high, meet middle, low and one through 10 on each.

[Zach Klapman]

That's awesome. Instead of having a slider that goes up and down with lumbar, they just have three different things.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Which is really nice. Driving position is very good. You know, it's the 10 speed auto which it's like, man, does that thing shift a lot. It changes gears all the time. It's always shifting. And in the canyons, the car, it's actually set up pretty well to carry decent speed. But the, but the gearbox, just like you hit the paddle and it's like, yeah, you know, I'll get around to it.

[Zach Klapman]

Really?

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. So shifting it is like trying to tell your kid to take the garbage out. I'll get around to it.

[Zach Klapman]

Daddy thing. Because there's race trucks like F150s with the 10 speed, that shift fast.

[Matt Farah]

The upshifts, American cars with paddle shifters. The upshifts are always better than the downshifts. And the upshifts in this are good. The downshifts are bad.

[Zach Klapman]

Oh, that's the one that's lazy.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. The downshifts are bad. You need too big of a gap and it. And it's just sluggish. And it's sluggish in two ways. It's sluggish padd transmission and it's sluggish in the shift as well. It's just not. It doesn't feel sporty. It's just lazy. It works. But it's actually better to just actually leave this gearbox.

[Zach Klapman]

It probably protects the engine because people can't downshift to redline and stuff like that. Not that people that own this are.

[Matt Farah]

Doing that in the canyons. The ride was really good. It was a nice sporty but very composed ride and it had enough body roll to like tell you what it was doing. But the problem is a fast SUV really needs adaptive suspension. You need it to firm up in the canyon and be soft in the street in the city. And this is a fixed suspension and it's just, it's too stiff every day. So I drove to Hollywood for a Christian show last night. Man, it, it beat me up. It's too. For a seven passenger suv, you need a. There needs to be a suspension setting that's softer because it's just. Unless you buy this thing. If you live where there's like really good roads.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. Arizona, something like that.

[Matt Farah]

Arizona. Well, Arizona doesn't even matter because there's no fucking corners there. But like somewhere where there's hand, you know, some kind of curvy roads and where it doesn't snow because you, you know, you got to buy a rear wheel drive only suv, right. So like I'm not really. It's. I get why they made it because it's, it's. They already had everything. It wasn't, you know, it's an easy product to come out with. I see them on the street, people are buying them. I've seen them around. There's a couple in my neighborhood.

[Zach Klapman]

It's not a bad looking truck.

[Matt Farah]

It's not bad looking and it drives overwhelmingly nice. It's just, it's too stiff for me for something in the city. And if, I mean maybe the bean counter said this must be under six grand. We can't put more. It's got to be, you know, so I don't know why it doesn't have like magnetic ride or something, you know, that, that is more adaptive with a soft mode and a sport mode. It has different drive modes but like they don't really seem to do much. Like maybe it's just traction control, but it has like normal sport, wet trail and eco and like they don't really seem to be all that much different from each other considering it's like a turbocharged engine and you know, whatever. Like it's a nice place to spend time, but it's just too stiff for me to be the kind of thing I'd want a daily in this city.

[Zach Klapman]

Can you get that engine in other trim levels of Explorer?

[Matt Farah]

I actually don't know. I imagine you probably can. I imagine there's an all wheel drive, top of the line one that has.

[Zach Klapman]

The same engine which would be more expensive, of course.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. But I really like those seats. Those are, they're good seats.

[Zach Klapman]

That's a clever idea.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, they're nice. That's a good one. But. And you're gonna drive it for a couple days so you can tell us what you like. But what did I, what else did I write down here? Lots of. Oh, let me. This isn't. This is not purely the Explorer. This also applies to the CT5 Blackwing and many other cars. I am so tired of cars using 4G not having a satellite connection for their GPS. A car that's called Explorer.

[Zach Klapman]

Magellan wouldn't have got too far if he was out of cell range.

[Matt Farah]

And I realize this is the st, it's the road focused one. It's not the. But it's not that different from. It's not because it's the st, the.

[Zach Klapman]

Road, the roads go to the middle of nowhere.

[Matt Farah]

Right. But the regular Explorer for sure, a car called Explorer should really have a satellite connection on its gps because the reason you need a car based GPS for when your phone doesn't work.

[Zach Klapman]

What's the most egregious, like what is the off roadiest thing we've had that you remember that also had car based gps?

[Matt Farah]

Rivian. Oh yeah, Rivian for sure.

[Zach Klapman]

I think they probably know that your battery range is limited so you can't actually get that far out of the city. That's just a joke.

[Matt Farah]

Like you're not getting that lost. I don't know if the ineos had satellite gps. I didn't try to use it. I mean all new GM cars. So we haven't been off roading in a new GM car recently. But all new GM cars I think are for our LTE or 4G only.

[Zach Klapman]

I don't think navigation. I was trying to look real quick to see if Jeep has that, but because of course there's so many Jeep forums that are posting about aftermarket GPS systems like Gaia. But that's for, you know, trail running stuff.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, no, we're talking about, we're talking about regular car GPS systems. But like for a lot of years we did the bdrs. Like we were able to use like onboard GPS systems on Jeeps and Fords.

[Zach Klapman]

And that literally helped us not get lost on all cars. One that was 2012, 2013.

[Matt Farah]

1312 when we had the Grand Cherokee with the GPS.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, it's very helpful. But I understand, I understand your complaint and I completely see why the business case from OEMs. Because I bet it's cheaper to have a cell antenna.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

You know, they don't have to whatever. Get a satellite supplier or whatever. And they can just run it off of cell phones. And then some of them just, you know, you use CarPlay so much, they use that. So I get it. And there's way more cell coverage now. I mean, it's like, you know what, 90% of the country, technically, I definitely.

[Matt Farah]

Go places that do not have cell phones.

[Zach Klapman]

Sure. Especially if there's a mountain between where most people live.

[Matt Farah]

There is cells, cell phone service. But like, it just annoys me.

[Zach Klapman]

It's just the che.

[Matt Farah]

It's the cheapening.

[Zach Klapman]

It is the cheapening. And it can be. And if it ever is a problem, it feels like it's a big problem, you know, and that's the thing. Like if you're out in the middle of nowhere and you're lost and your phone and your car don't know where you are, then obviously that's far scarier. And that's why my paper map business is going to take back off.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, I love a paper map.

[Zach Klapman]

We have a road atlas in every car.

[Matt Farah]

Do you?

[Zach Klapman]

Yep.

[Matt Farah]

I really would like to do a backcountry discovery route again.

[Zach Klapman]

They have new routes.

[Matt Farah]

They do. They have Wyoming, the new one. I bet that one is. I bet Wyoming's great.

[Zach Klapman]

Wyoming.

[Matt Farah]

I don't know. I'd love to do Colorado. I want. I want to do like half. Half camping, half hotel.

[Zach Klapman]

Oh, gotcha. Okay.

[Matt Farah]

I don't. I don't.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

I don't need to suffer for it.

[Zach Klapman]

Bears in many parts of Wyoming.

[Matt Farah]

And I would like to drive some. Something, you know, quite like very, very good. I like to drive a Range Rover. I like to drive Ranger.

[Zach Klapman]

Do you even want to camp? What?

[Matt Farah]

No.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, I didn't think so.

[Matt Farah]

Not really.

[Zach Klapman]

That's really funny.

[Matt Farah]

I will.

[Zach Klapman]

I saw a new Land Cruiser.

[Matt Farah]

I will, but I won't like it. Which is a new Land Cruiser.

[Zach Klapman]

I saw one of those on the road today which looks very 2035 kind of robot. The front. The headlights are like kind of square. Square. Square in square. Ish.

[Matt Farah]

You know, there's two different Land Cruiser or Land Cruiser headlights. The 1958 edition, which is the. The base model has round headlights.

[Zach Klapman]

These were not that.

[Matt Farah]

The other ones have square headlights.

[Zach Klapman]

Were 2048.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

Square headlights.

[Matt Farah]

I've never seen a modern car with two different shaped optional headlights. Oh, have you?

[Zach Klapman]

No.

[Matt Farah]

When's the last time you saw that Porsche. Porsche slant nose.

[Zach Klapman]

That's true. Yeah. They offer different bulbs sometimes, but yeah. Different lights.

[Matt Farah]

I've never seen different shaped headlights. Before in one car, but that's kind of neat of them. Should we go to the people?

[Zach Klapman]

Let's go to the.

[Matt Farah]

There. Is it. Is it their time? It's your time, patrons. Get in the game. You know what to do. Patreon.com the Smoking Tire podcast. Get in the game, indeed. Before the end of the year and we jack the prices up. I'm just kidding. We're not going to jack the price. We're not. We're just going to adjust for inflation and profit and we're just gonna.

[Zach Klapman]

We haven't increased that. We haven't increased the prices into.

[Matt Farah]

A buck across the board.

[Zach Klapman]

You're welcome, everybody.

[Matt Farah]

Everyone's going to pay one extra dollar. That's what we're doing.

[Zach Klapman]

Okay.

[Matt Farah]

Right.

[Zach Klapman]

I can't tell you're serious or if you're Joe.

[Matt Farah]

We're not sure. We're not gonna jack up the Patreon by a dollar. No.

[Zach Klapman]

There's no point.

[Matt Farah]

We are going to add a tier at the very bottom. That's a dollar a month just because. See if we pick up a few extra fish.

[Zach Klapman]

Just tips.

[Matt Farah]

I've seen other people's Patreon pages. And the lowest tier, you don't get anything.

[Zach Klapman]

Really.

[Matt Farah]

The lowest tier, which is usually like $3 or $5, it's the hat tier. It's just throwing literally like. Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

Tithing.

[Matt Farah]

Throw me money. Because this. I have to make this shit. Yeah, yeah. Which, like, I don't. I wouldn't like to have a tier that's for nothing.

[Zach Klapman]

No. I like providing some sort of service.

[Matt Farah]

And I would. I would like to go back and ask those people what percentage of their patrons do the nothing tier.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

It's probably not a lot.

[Zach Klapman]

If you want to give us a dollar a month for nothing. I would say wait two years and buy a T shirt. I'd rather you do that.

[Matt Farah]

Sure.

[Zach Klapman]

You know, keep getting the content for free and then eventually buy something that costs $12. That way you get something instead of just giving us $12.

[Matt Farah]

Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We don't need your money.

[Zach Klapman]

I'll sell you our watches for $12.

[Matt Farah]

Except that we do. We do.

[Zach Klapman]

We do.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, we definitely do.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. That's no joke.

[Zach Klapman]

I have wheels to pay for. I got a discount from Apex, but they were free. Apex. They're like 6 pounds lighter per corner.

[Matt Farah]

And they're 18s or 1918. Okay.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. I'm not. Rubber band. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Side vault. So, yeah, the Patreon is where it's at if you want to get an ad free Experience. If you want to ask us questions for the show, ask our guests questions. You'll get the show ahead of other people at certain tiers you will get. What else do you get, Zach? Early access to special super secret mochandising and collabs and a whole lot more. So let's get to them. Engineered. What EVs are the best for rear wheel drive shenanigans like burnouts, donuts and drift? That is a very good question. I think the best EVs for burnouts, donuts, drifting. I think you've got your Elantra N which is great for drifting. The Tesla Model 3 performance is very good for drifting.

[Zach Klapman]

You mean Ionic N. What did I say? Elantra.

[Matt Farah]

Excuse me. Ioniq 5N is great for drifting. Model 3 performance, great for drifting. I had my first ever drift in an issue of Road and Track.

[Zach Klapman]

Oh, cool.

[Matt Farah]

Printed, printed, big smoky slide in a Model 3 Performance.

[Zach Klapman]

The Lucid will do it, but you have to be in a closed environment or going very fast.

[Matt Farah]

Oh yeah, all wheel drive. That car slid a lot during that too. Then the Mach E rally, it doesn't have rear wheel drive shenanigans, but on a loose surface. Oh, that is. Go watch our video.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Of the Mach E Rally. Just exceptional on a loose surface. So good. Yeah, yeah. Is there another EV that's like good for that? I mean, the Ioniq 5, they're coming out with like a rally one.

[Zach Klapman]

Well. And eventually Porsche is going to come out with the EV Cayman thing. Right. So that'll probably be pretty good for douchebaggery.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. We're going to need more Advil. Good username. Hey. Okay. Asked a few weeks ago. Bringing it back. What, if anything, would I miss? Going from my F80 M3 to a new Black Wing. With 6 speed CT5 Black Wing. 50, 50 track days and daily drivers, I'm told the precision pack will be nearly impossible to get. That's fucking horseshit. Should I consider a CT4V Blackwing instead? CT5V Blackwing. The video went up today. Thank you for the edit, Zach. I was ultimately not able to get usable footage from gm. Unfortunately, the PDR at this time isn't really set up to do what I was told it could do, which was basically just record my whole session and export, which it can. Which it can't do. It's really for a learning tool and so they can only export these sort of lap comparisons. Anyway, the car is still extremely rare and I would try very hard to get a precision pack. I think you can I would start looking in cold, cold climate dealerships like Ohio and yeah, Minnesota. You may have to go, you know, buy one in a different part of the country and ship it now.

[Zach Klapman]

December.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

People are not shopping for a rear wheel drive.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

700 horsepower sedans right now. Ooh, good idea.

[Matt Farah]

On cup twos. The, the precision packs free cup twos included with precision pack optional. Would you miss anything? No, I think you would. If you love an F80 M3. I don't see how you wouldn't love a Blackwing with precision pack. It's just more of that. I just wrote a story for the next issue of Road and Track that centers around the fact that Cadillac has been chasing the ghost of the E39 M5 and has in fact far, far surpassed that car at that thing. Whereas BMW, which was the ultimate driving machine that they went and chased, have basically abandoned that type of car almost, almost entirely. And they're chasing the ghost of the E39M.

[Zach Klapman]

Cadillac's like, we beat you. And BMW goes, oh, oh, we're not playing that sport anymore.

[Matt Farah]

No. A Blackwing performance pack is easily the best sedan on sale dynamically right now. It is so fast and it handles beautifully and it's nice to drive slow also.

[Zach Klapman]

And I would say try to get the CT5. Don't settle for the CT4 until you've exhausted your search because the CT4 is really good, but it's so similar to the F80 in my opinion, it won't feel that different. Whereas the CT5 with sound, torque, power is going to feel like a new experience. Yeah, that's a good one.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. The CT4 Blackwing is an upgrade from the F80 M3 but only slightly, you know.

[Zach Klapman]

Yes.

[Matt Farah]

Max Lyall, if INEOS is doing the 30 year old new car thing, meaning they're basically selling a 1990 model car today.

[Zach Klapman]

Inspect ethylene oxide inspector is doing. There we go.

[Matt Farah]

If they're doing that for off road, who's currently making the current the closest sports car equivalent or who should be. Pretty good question there. The closest thing you could get to a sports car from 1990 is but.

[Zach Klapman]

For reasonable money also let's go with that because like, you know, Singer is doing great vintage stuff for sure.

[Matt Farah]

I mean like a BRZ or something like that. You know, a fairly basic gas powered manual transmission, you know, low ish power sports car. Fucking Miata.

[Zach Klapman]

Still doing the same thing. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah. And front wheel drive like the 911st.

[Matt Farah]

You know, you start it with A key. It's got the older pull handles, it's got a manual, it's got.

[Zach Klapman]

I feel like it's hard to include $500,000.

[Matt Farah]

I understand.

[Zach Klapman]

I agree with your statement. I think BRZ is great because it's. There were what 20 sports cars in the 90s at affordable rates and now there's like two where it's narrowed a lot and the front wheel drive cars are so much bigger now. The Elantra N is a great car.

[Matt Farah]

It's big but there's also like shit like Chimera and you know these companies doing not necessarily resto mods but new like tribute vehicles. Like the company that's doing that Lancia Delta and Degrale two door thing. So there are companies that are making essentially brand new versions of literally Caterham.

[Zach Klapman]

Is making the same thing they've been making for a long time.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, yeah. Henry Beck says 22 years old fan from Boston looking to get my first car after I'm getting my first job in San Diego. Looking for a Cruiser commuter under $10,000. Want to maximize uniqueness and cool factor. Minimize upfront running costs. Willing to do some repairs myself. Wow. Okay. So he wants cheap, good.

[Zach Klapman]

You want a Radwood car.

[Matt Farah]

Cheap, good. Cool. 10 GS. It's not a lot of money.

[Zach Klapman]

Volvo wagon. Old.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, old Volvo wagon. Volvo wagon.

[Zach Klapman]

Diesel, manual.

[Matt Farah]

Mercedes 300D.

[Zach Klapman]

That also great. Better looking?

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, yeah, possibly Lexus LS400.

[Zach Klapman]

Yep.

[Matt Farah]

You can get an okay one for 10. Pretty, pretty decent one.

[Zach Klapman]

Can you get an Integra four door from the 90s for 10 probably.

[Matt Farah]

So you know our Russell?

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

He has a, you know like a 98 four door. It's not a. It's a GSR I guess.

[Zach Klapman]

Oh he does. I thought he had two door.

[Matt Farah]

Is this a two door? Yeah, I thought it was a four door. His a two door? Yeah, the silver one?

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Okay, maybe it's two door.

[Zach Klapman]

I just thought like a four door Integra would be way cheaper.

[Matt Farah]

His was really nice with like I don't know 50,000 original miles and it was like 17. So you get one with like 150,000 miles. Miles?

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, you could. It'd still work. I mean look, this person's buying a sub ten thousand dollar car that they're gonna beat the out of in the sun I think, you know.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

It doesn't have to be nice.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

But if you want, if you want cool and cheap and reliable.

[Matt Farah]

How about an E46? No 330 CI if you could get.

[Zach Klapman]

One for under 10, I'd be really 325 CI. Yeah, probably 325 CI, but you probably could. They've come down a bit, so that's a good idea.

[Matt Farah]

To Alex Garcia, living in New York city, has a 2012 Golf TDI with a manual starting to show its age. Considering a Mark 7 Golf R. Any other hatchbacks or sedans I should consider for under 30k in the city? I don't drive in the city. I only use the car to get out every now and again. Prefer a stick. I mean, there aren't a lot of hatch. You, you know, all the hatchbacks. The problem with this question, and I don't mean it's a bad question, I just mean that like you can list them all on one hand. You've got your Focus variants which have been out of production for a while, your Veloster variants, your Volkswagens, and then everything after that is kind of like compact crossovers.

[Zach Klapman]

Or you'd have to go older, like 2011 STI as a hatch. But that's, you know, the same. Like if you want a newer car car. I mean, Golf R is such a good car. That's such a. Just a great overall car.

[Matt Farah]

Golf R is a good car. Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

It's not very different from what they currently own. That's the thing.

[Matt Farah]

I mean, maybe an A3 or an S. Can you get a used S3? Get a couple years old, 2022 or 2021 S3. I don't know, 30k would be big depreciation on S3, but like that an S3 is just a nicer Golf R. Not to. I mean, it is a better car than a Golf R, but Mechanically it's.

[Zach Klapman]

Similar S3s for under 30 all day on cars and bids. Okay, S3s are nice. Sold for 28, sold for 18. There we go, 22.

[Matt Farah]

I think you would, I think you'd like an S3. Sure. Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

It's a nice graduation.

[Matt Farah]

It's not a manual, I'm sorry to say. It is an automatic only.

[Zach Klapman]

But I think I also want more info. Like, do you need lots of, like the Veloster is awesome, but it doesn't have a ton of space in it. Yeah, you know, it's super cool, so. But it doesn't have a ton of space. Golf R is the livable vehicle that can kind of do everything. But if you need more space than that, you have to get a bigger thing like a four.

[Matt Farah]

You get an A lot. A brand new Elantra n is like 33 grand. I bet you could find one with 10,000 miles on it for 27. So I like, I like Elantra ends also manual fast, fun.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. And ride well enough that the city wouldn't beat you up too much. Just kind of long. So hopefully you don't have to parallel park.

[Matt Farah]

Cascone living outside Toronto and getting dumped on. And by that he does not mean snow. He means he's under a glass table. What? Keeping this in mind, there's a Jim Norton jump. Keeping this in mind, can you think of anything more fun than a GR Corolla for an all weather car? Currently driving a Macan gts but I, I think a Corolla GR would be an excellent all year car. Of course snow tires be a beast.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, it's the Subaru recipe. I mean Macan's great because you have more ground clearance which is very helpful if the snow gets super deep. But dude snow tires on a gr. I mean that's. You will not have more fun in a car I think than that.

[Matt Farah]

We did put Blizzax on my, on Nick's Macan s and it was, it was a beast.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, it's a great, it's a great way to get around. But if you want to have fun and like slide around when it snows, put Blizzax on the GR but you can just play with it more.

[Matt Farah]

I mean here's the thing. If you have the budget then a 911 is a more fun year round car.

[Zach Klapman]

You think so?

[Matt Farah]

Yes. An all wheel, a 911 on the right tires can go anywhere in the snow. They're so good in the snow. They're boss and they're fun. They're fun to slide in the loose surface. So I, if I was rolling like that I would be perfectly happy driving a 911 all year. Especially a Dakar.

[Zach Klapman]

If you could. Yeah, there you go. I would like to be a little higher off the ground. I high centered my sti so on the snow so I would like.

[Matt Farah]

Oh did you? I did. Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

So Dakar is good.

[Matt Farah]

Sloppy toppy 5000 with a great question. If you had ended up on pimp my ride 20 years ago, what random detail about your life at the time would west coast customs have run hog wild with for that car build? Wow. 20 years ago I was 23, just graduated college. I probably had just moved into New York City. Moved out of my parents house. I think my, I think my life at that time was pretty well defined by weed and so exhibit, exhibit would have been right there. He Would have been like hang on a second.

[Zach Klapman]

He's going to build you his dream car.

[Matt Farah]

Stand back brother. I got this exhibit would have 100%. I heard that you like to smoke weed, sir. So I fucking and turns your car into a. You know your car is a bong.

[Zach Klapman]

Well, your headliner would have been an Eddie Vedder psychedelic poster. Blacklight probably.

[Matt Farah]

Pearl Jam doesn't have psychedelic posters.

[Zach Klapman]

Someone's made one.

[Matt Farah]

There's probably one somewhere.

[Zach Klapman]

You'd find one on the market. Yeah, I think that would be an element. Yeah, it'd just be black light.

[Matt Farah]

What would your, what would your 23, 23 year old self.

[Zach Klapman]

I was snowboarding. I was wearing a lot of really puffy jackets. Like I like I wore a puffy white jacket. I wore a crooked out beanie and I had a white sti with gold wheels and I thought I was a champion.

[Matt Farah]

What if you had an interior made of starter jacket?

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, they go. Your whole interior is down, your door cards are down. Down interior, down interior. But they'd put a blender in it for protein shakes. Cause I was lifting like a lot at the time. I had very little responsibilities.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And then there'd be like a blender. There would somehow be a table in the trunk where I could wax a snow ward before I go up to the hill. It would like pop out and you know the iron would have a battery to turn the iron on and probably catch fire. Yeah, yeah, that's what it would be.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

Oh, be so warm in that car.

[Matt Farah]

Oh man, that would have been fun. Justin C says is how about the Anios and a Myers Manx as a unique and timeless looking two car solution. What would be the possible price range for that combo? That would be what start at for a Volkswagen engine one. I think it's around 50 or 60 grand.

[Zach Klapman]

150 to 200.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

For a Volkswagen one for the Myers.

[Matt Farah]

Ineos and a Volkswagen one is good. I drove a Volkswagen one. It's very cute. It's lovely and actually went faster than I thought it was gonna go. Alex Brown says looking at a new Nismo Z but with Nissan in hot water at the moment and the Supra being discontinued for a couple years, what other cars should I consider that will give similar experience to the Supra and the Z in that price range? Don't want a Mustang since my buddy already has one and I want something different. This is so similar to the hatchback question. It's like the market is so contracted on this stuff now that like there's Nothing I can tell you that's new here. I'll try. What else would you could do as a Z4?

[Zach Klapman]

Well, it seems like they're shopping for a new. A new car.

[Matt Farah]

A new car.

[Zach Klapman]

So it can't go few years old, unfortunately.

[Matt Farah]

I mean, yeah, the Z4 is. The Z4 was nice on the road.

[Zach Klapman]

No, no, it was.

[Matt Farah]

I'm just the manual.

[Zach Klapman]

But how much was that?

[Matt Farah]

74,000.

[Zach Klapman]

That's a lot more.

[Matt Farah]

Well, the Nismo Z was 60.

[Zach Klapman]

Okay.

[Matt Farah]

And the Supra got up to 61 or 62 loaded. So it is more. It's more for sure. I mean, I mean can we talk about Boxsters or Caymans? Because they're. If you're willing to go used.

[Zach Klapman]

If you go used, there's way more options. Yeah, you could get a great Camaro SS1LE. If you don't want the Mustang because your friend has a Mustang, you could get a used Cayman, you could get a used M2. You could get a used C7 Corvette. You could get a C7 Corvette would be fantastic. That's a good car.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, a C7. If you have Nismo Z money and you're. And you can get a fucking Z06.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. But you should get a C7 Grand Sport.

[Matt Farah]

Right, But I'm just, just as a financial example, C7 Grand Sport is the one you want.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, for sure. Do that.

[Matt Farah]

Because like if you're talking about relatively compact front engine, rear drive two passenger cars, that's a. We're talking about here.

[Zach Klapman]

I think, man, it's so hard that just two door rear wheel drive coupes are a dying species.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

I think you could go like GR Corolla, which is fun. It's not the same, but it's fun and it's in the price range. It's a bummer.

[Matt Farah]

Group of FBC thoughts on the Jaguar Type 00 concept? Did we talk about it yet?

[Zach Klapman]

No, we talked about the ad and then they. But that was before they had shown the concept up, I think.

[Matt Farah]

I don't. I think it is an aesthetically pleasing general shape. Although that sort of air conditioner thing they've done at the back is weird.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, that'll be gone when they're done.

[Matt Farah]

And I mean it's.

[Zach Klapman]

I think it's not. Yeah, I think that their ad campaign, if this was done intentionally, it's genius. They may have done what the Mach E did. The Mach E? They said it's the Mustang Mach E. And everyone was like, how the fuck do you call. And the world half the world lost their mind and it made everyone put eyes constantly on what the Mach E was. And then when people drove it like the reviews got way more attention. If they had called it any of the other names we discussed long ago on that show, it wouldn't have got the press. So maybe they were smart and they went, let's put out this weird commercial. Everyone's going to hate it. That way when we unveil our car, everyone's going to be like, yeah, let's see what they did. I'm going to fucking get mad at it.

[Matt Farah]

I like your theory.

[Zach Klapman]

I think the car, I mean it looks like a movie prop, but it's a good looking one. It's got a long hood and it has really short overhang in the front and the cockpit set far back. And if they did anything that was smoothed into production level that, that looked like ish, that I think it could look rad. And in an era where the two door executive coupe is basically gone, that's what they've debuted, which is not at all a departure from their roots. Which is funny. They said they were gonna do that in the ad. This is like kind of what they used to do. So it could be good.

[Matt Farah]

I think the design is a little generic. I mean, yes, it's cab rear, it's raked back, it's, it's got big wheels and it's, you know, it's slammed low and wide fenders. So on an individual feature level, it has the things that invoke luxury gt, but like you could put fucking any car company's badge on that thing and go, yeah, and go, okay, there's nothing. And granted, maybe this is, maybe that's the point. Or like there's nothing about it to me that says Jaguar and maybe that's the point that they want to cast off their entire heritage, which I think.

[Zach Klapman]

You can't do that. I mean, I don't think, I wouldn't recommend that. I don't think that's a good idea. I agree with you. I guess to me when I look at this, it's like they just started carving the clay. They're probably going to refine the hell out of it before it gets to production. In my head, I guess I'm being optimistic. If it has these proportions but then has the curves in the shape of Jaguar that we like, then it could be good.

[Matt Farah]

Jaguars, another one that I like to root for. Even though they consistently, you know, let us down.

[Zach Klapman]

But do that. I mean, they don't know.

[Matt Farah]

They actually don't the cars don't know, the cars don't. People just don't show up and buy them.

[Zach Klapman]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

My mom still likes her F type. I still think that's a great car. I thought the F Pace was a great car.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Even the XE or xe? Xf.

[Zach Klapman]

Xf?

[Matt Farah]

Both. Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

The XF was the bigger sedan.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, no, the small one.

[Zach Klapman]

The small one's the xe.

[Matt Farah]

The xc, that was, that was actually pretty good, too.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

I, I can't remember the last time I've seen one on the road.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

But, yeah, I, I, it's so far from being a car you can buy right now that I almost just don't give a. I don't really. You know what I mean? Like, I don't really care. Like, there's so many, like, people that analyze these sort of designs that are, like, nothing near what you actually buy. So, like, I didn't say about the electric Dodge Charger until I saw one out at Bonderont and then went, yikes, that's no good. But, but I, you know, you got to see it in person. The one that you can buy.

[Zach Klapman]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

Wait, go back. Yes. I have seven cats. Does the BMW gear shift on the Grenadier bother you as much as it bother me, or can you look past it on a low production car like that? Somewhere in between? On the one hand, I can absolutely look past it, and on the other hand, I think it's the only thing that doesn't visually fit in an otherwise aesthetically excellent interior.

[Zach Klapman]

Totally. It stands out like a zebra at a horse farm. You're like, I like the way it operates, but everything about that interior is designed a very specific way. And then you reach down and you grab this robot foot.

[Matt Farah]

The BMW shifter. It's a very, It's a very. It's a thing that stands out. Yeah. It's definitely not the aesthetic that anything else in the interior is. Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

I would like to diff. I would like a different gearbox controller from that.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. What car were we talking about where they couldn't rip apart the Revology Mustang. Oh, the Revology had it. And also the. Oh, God. The Grand Wagoneer.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

I was like, how. How come they don't change this other thing? And he's like, we couldn't rebuild a physical thing that would talk to the, the engine part the same way. There's some things that are just built weird.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Electronic gearboxes. Yeah. Break. Diego Break says, have you experienced any cars or entire brands that seem to have exceptionally good microphone Quality when taking phone calls. In other words, has anyone on the other end of the phone comment on how clear you sound even though you're in a moving vehicle? I think there's like a standard beyond which I don't. No one cares anymore. So once you get to like Mercedes Range Rover level of microphone, it's like that's, that's the best. They all, they all use the same there. It's more convertibles. When I'm in the McLaren with the top down and can have a clear conversation, that's impressive to me.

[Zach Klapman]

That is very impressive. I've never even tried that.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, I can do it. I can do it in my car too.

[Zach Klapman]

Oh wow.

[Matt Farah]

I can have a conversation with the top down.

[Zach Klapman]

That's incredible. Yeah, because for me the wind noise, if I'm driving the car, you put the windows. I get more distracted by the noise of the car, whether it's a coop with windows up or whatever. I'm wondering if they can hear because I'm hearing tire noise and stuff like that, but they probably can't.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, I'm sure it has some kind of canceling, but I mean it's. I wouldn't just have a 30 minute relaxed conversation, but I'm on my way to the store. Do you need anything?

[Zach Klapman]

I mean I had a 20 minute phone call in the Inspec ethylene oxide and specialty grenadier quartermaster.

[Matt Farah]

Very good.

[Zach Klapman]

I did it without looking, but I did have a 30 minute phone call. It's pretty good.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, and bad gardener also wants to talk about Jaguar.

[Zach Klapman]

Oh, this is an interesting stat.

[Matt Farah]

Jaguar has allegedly intentionally alienated its existing customers in an attempt to reinvent itself. They claim they only plan on 20% of their future customers being replaced. Pete. And 80% being first timers, per Harry's Garage. Can you think of a time that another car company has done such a drastic change? Did it work? Yeah, well, when Porsche went water cooled, I would say that a lot of people did not like that and it absolutely did work. I would say that when again Porsche bought built an suv, a lot of people said that that wasn't going to work. And that did work. Let's maybe when like, oh, that's a tough, it's a tough question.

[Zach Klapman]

So what shocked me about this is when I saw a 20% repeat customer. I thought, holy crap. If you're trying to find if 80% of your customer base next year needs to be new, that seems like a huge problem. I found a list on Forbes of I guess let's call it brand Loyalty and it's actually really surprising like Jaguar is at 16% and Jaguar CEO backed this up. So Porsche is only 23. Mercedes is 35% and then the highest, second highest, Subaru, Toyota, Kia has the highest with 48% of buyers returning and then Ford is the second highest with 46%.

[Matt Farah]

Wow.

[Zach Klapman]

Which I just, I'm surprised that some of these brands that like, like Porsche is so low. Yeah. And not maybe that's tracked like their next car purchase isn't a Porsche but maybe they keep the one they have.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

Versus like if they're changing out their only car, are they going somewhere else?

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

Weird.

[Matt Farah]

I wonder what the, I wonder if you have a Porsche, how likely you are to have multiple vehicles compared to someone who has, you know, a Honda or something.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. The only other ones like the real big one I can think of might have been air cooled and water cooled 9 11s. That was, that was a very big one. Jack Mehoff. Excellent. Officer Jack Me off is an excellent, excellent username. If you had, if you had a wife imposed budget of as cheap as possible, what is the sweet spot to get into 911 ownership? I mean996, I've heard of people getting cars for 30 grand, maybe a 996 cab. But like God, that car is going to need stuff and it's going to be expensive and you're going to get annoyed.

[Zach Klapman]

What about a G body convert convertible?

[Matt Farah]

Not for 30.

[Zach Klapman]

No one.

[Matt Farah]

You don't want a bad one.

[Zach Klapman]

I know but I'm, I was trying to think of the cheapest would probably be a cheap, less modern air cooled car.

[Matt Farah]

An air cooled convertible with rust with maybe 40. Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

You know, maybe, maybe less.

[Matt Farah]

I don't know, maybe G body convertibles are less right now. Maybe they've come down more. I haven't been watching them but like yeah, that would be great. I mean look at, let's look at cars and bids and let's see what a, what A G body 911 convertible is going for right now. Wow. Look at the rims on that Testarossa. Mmm. Let's see 911 convertible go down. Do we have air?

[Zach Klapman]

Sort by years.

[Matt Farah]

Go to years. Yeah. What's the oldest? 81 is the oldest. So let's go to 89. So sold for 37. Okay, here we go. Here's an 84, 86 Carrera cab, five speed, sold for 51. And here's another one. 84 cab sold for 37. So without looking too deeply into those, it appears that it is possible to get an air cooled convertible affordable in that price range. But you know, be ready for service. Those are expensive cars to maintain. But I'd like. I'd rather have an air cooled car I think than a996. Personally Jack from Canada, do you think infotainment systems will ever be a serious factor in collector car values? Yeah, I do. But I hope that like Porsche has started to do making the stereos for the air cooled cars. The stereos for Cayenne, Early Cayenne's and 997s. I hope that they continue to develop upgrade solutions so at least the car continues to work with your phone.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, you know that's the big thing.

[Matt Farah]

But I think if you can there's like E92 M3S where you had the optional no nav. Optional no screen. I think the no screen will be more valuable.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah because then you can choose like you can just use your phone. Especially if you have a big iPhone pro or something. Something because the screen on your iPhone pro is not too much smaller than the E90 screen and it's also just going to be higher res and it'll update every time you get a new phone.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Robert Banuelos how do CAFE standards apply to a company like ineos if they offer only one or two vehicles that are gas guzzlers, do they not have to do fuel averages? I'm not really sure how it works with a company that only builds one car.

[Zach Klapman]

Especially with that small of production.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, I'm sorry I don't have the answer for you.

[Zach Klapman]

That may be the benefit of buying an engine from BMW.

[Matt Farah]

Double O slow. Looking for a fun manual car in the 30k range with 4 doors. Not scared about maintenance. Soft spot for the B7 RS4 but any cars that you should look at. I also I already have a V12 Vantage of Volvo V90 and a model 3 beater.

[Zach Klapman]

Okay.

[Matt Farah]

Okay. B7RS4, not a bad choice. E92 M3 with a stick.

[Zach Klapman]

Also a great choice for 30 in the 30s. You could get a decent fad M3.

[Matt Farah]

Also you probably could. You can also get a passable E39 M5. You could also get a Chevy SS.

[Zach Klapman]

Man those cars are cool.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, Chevy SS is rule.

[Zach Klapman]

It seems like you want a four door. Let's just stick with that. I guess because he already has.

[Matt Farah]

You could also probably get a 2012 2009-12 CTS V sedan. Manual.

[Zach Klapman]

That's a good driver. Yeah, they don't look as good as the wagon.

[Matt Farah]

They don't but they, but they're driver. Yeah, that shit stomped all over the M3 in the RS4 when it came out.

[Zach Klapman]

For sure.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. RS4, it's 150 extra horsepower.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. And the weight balance is much better than the RS4.

[Matt Farah]

I'd rather have a nice CTS V manual than an RS4.

[Zach Klapman]

You could get, well, you could get a decent C6, but not quite a good C4. Right. Four doors.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Chevy SS manual.

[Zach Klapman]

Sorry. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Also that Chris Nolke with the new Black Wing going. Would you each personally prefer to own the stick with no adaptive cruise in LA or the automatic with. With adaptive cruise you can't configure the manual and adaptive cruise together. Yeah, that annoys me.

[Zach Klapman]

That's because Toyota, you can, I think on the GR and the other Corolla you can get a manual with acc.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, that's annoying for. In la. For a daily driver, I might just get the automatic. Yeah, yeah. It is a good manual. The clutch isn't very heavy. You know, if you're okay with the physicality of driving a stick around traffic.

[Zach Klapman]

I commuted from Santa Monica to here, what, four days a week and with a manual car. And if I had an auto with adaptive cruise, I would have been a much more relaxed person. Like, it's just. You don't want to just sit in traffic like that.

[Matt Farah]

Busch drives a 911. I don't know who Bush is, which Bush we're talking about, but starting January 1st, Maine is changing the minimum age for antique auto registrar, which is exempt from inspection, from 25 to 35 years. Do you think this is a justified move? Well, 25 years is a 99. Yeah. A car that is a 99 is not an antique in my opinion. I think 35 years much better defines an antique car to me.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. If the goal, it seems like if the goal was to keep collectors vintage cool cars on the road and give them a smog exemption, but most people, most people wanted to buy a newer thing. Maybe it's like now that technology is not advancing quite as quickly, you know, if you buy a 1999 coral like Camry, you're going, this isn't a collector car. What are you doing? So that's really what it's for.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. I mean, and I think there's probably some cars they can't retroactive. Right. So like if you've got a car that's 26 years old and you already had the antique, they can't take that away. Right. It's got to be new registrations. Going forward. And I have not read about this before right now, but I think that would be fucked. I think it would be fucked up if they took people's away that they already had. So I wouldn't like to see that done.

[Zach Klapman]

But it is an interesting sort of semantics argument of like, how are they defining an antique? What does Maine's governing body see as an antique? Because it used to be based on years. Years. And they're going, well, now we need to stretch it back a little further because these newer cars don't fit our definition of what an antique automobile is. That's kind of an interesting thing.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Joel says weigh in Daily Driver E63 wagon versus Audi RS6. I'd probably want the Mercedes RSX is too stiff. It just doesn't really do it for me.

[Zach Klapman]

It looks so angry and cool though.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, okay. Max Lyell says as a South Australian, I will complete the ultra high powered vehicle license course and report back with my findings. If it were up to you, what would driver training look like for a course like this to actually be effective? Well, you have to define effective. Is effective in raising revenue for the state, you know, giving you an excuse to write more tickets? Or is effective increasing safety?

[Zach Klapman]

Right. If we're using Australia's goal, they didn't change any speed limits. There's no special lanes. There's no special permissions you get other than being allowed to drive the car. So that is different than what we want, which is, you know, special provisions where you can drive a certain way and drive faster. I mean, if we're going to do it here the way we want, I think you'd have to do multi day driving schools. But there'd also be a lot of instruction on how are these rules going to inter. How are you going to interact with the public on the 405 or on the 5. And obviously the general public would also have to be informed, hey, there's these special licenses. These cars might be able to do this and that and you're not allowed to do this and that. So that would be. There would have to be new training for everybody.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, for me it would really focus on the license. Wouldn't be a thing that binds you because you have a high powered car. The license would be a thing that ensures you are actually trained to handle that car. It would be a higher level of training. Let's do a couple more and then call this game keel and toe. At what price? Good question. Actually, what Price does a McLaren 12C become an interesting risk to take Most recent sales on Bring a Trailer are in the high 80s. Well, it's certainly over an $80,000 driving experience. But those cars are. You do not want an out of warranty one of those.

[Zach Klapman]

I mean, I assume they're all out of warranty too, right?

[Matt Farah]

Oh, yeah, no, no. I'm just. I mean, yeah, okay. Yes, they're. They're long since out of warranty, but. But you do not want.

[Zach Klapman]

They had lots of diff. Different problems with lots of different systems, a lot of. Some of it electronic, all connected.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

I wouldn't even want. I would be very hesitant to buy one even as a track car because. Because some of the things that could go wrong with it still have to go to the dealership to get fixed and they won't be cheap.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, it's just.

[Zach Klapman]

They're at the bad intersection of complication without reliability.

[Matt Farah]

I'd rather buy a. I'd rather stretch 20 or 30 grand. And I'm hypothesizing. I understand that's real money, but like, I think it's a better bet to stretch 20 or 30 grand and get a 570s.

[Zach Klapman]

Oh, yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Than to spend. Than to get the cheapest 12C around.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. You know, I fix some things, cars better looking, in my opinion.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

But it's just as fast, it's just as cool.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And the MP4 just. I didn't like the way it looked when it came out. It was. For me, that was an impressive engineering car. I drove and I went, man, I can't wait till they make this pretty. Which is how I feel about the C8.

[Matt Farah]

Right. Let's see. Oh, man. Man. Let's see. Dodney Rangerfield, manual transmission, rear drive, naturally aspirated. Experience for 25 to 35K. Priorities are engagement sound and a quality interior. E46 and M3 and Cayman S come to mind. I mean, yeah, you've got that. You've got your Z4M Coupe and Roadster. Those are nice cars. Also, you've got. You've got all kinds of Corvettes. Quality interior is debatable, but if you can get into a C7, it'll be.

[Zach Klapman]

Better and it'll feel good.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, you might be able to get a CTS V coupe. I mean, it's supercharged, but it'll feel linear. It'll be close.

[Zach Klapman]

Could you get an F type, maybe V6S coupe? Yeah, that would get there.

[Matt Farah]

Yep. Yep. So those are. Those are. That's pretty much almost all of your good options in the modern world. It's hard Being. It's hard being. There's like we. I feel like we recommend the same. The same cars over and over to people. And it's like. It's just the condensation of the world of production sports cars. There just aren't very many. Is this all of them? Last year.

[Zach Klapman]

Oh, no, there is.

[Matt Farah]

Okay. Oh, God. Okay, we're not doing that. I. I have to have a.

[Zach Klapman]

We have to do a show where we don't tell people we're doing the show and they don't ask new questions.

[Matt Farah]

Sure.

[Zach Klapman]

Catch up.

[Matt Farah]

Okay, cool. All right. Sam England was sorting through a box of my deceased dad and grandfather's stuff and found an old longine watch belonging to my grandfather from 1938. It's a little haggard, but the movement still works. Who or what should I do for a possible restoration? I would start by Google independent watch service in my city, whatever city you're in, and see if a watch repair place comes up that has a good reputation, good five star rating for four. Whatever star ratings. And I would call them, tell them what you have, send them an email, send them photos. And I mean, the good thing about movements from the 30s and that period is like. Like they're fairly robust. Like, they're a little, you know, they're not as water resistant, but like, the metal is like, it's pretty. Like it's real metal. They're not. It's not plastic bits. And so typically, a movement like that, you know, if it's all there and it hasn't been totally rusted or fucked, it's just been sitting. A watchmaker can just disassemble that movement and they put the pieces in this, like, you know, little cleaning solution, and they scrub them off and they can put it back together, lubricate the movement, service it, and you're good to go for another fucking hundred years. So, yeah, that's. That's really what I would do, is I would just look for an independent watchmaker and ask them if they can do it. I keep the case, the dial as is. I would not restore, but the movement for sure. That's our little program, everybody. Thank you to the patrons for asking such good questions. We'll save the rest of these for our next show. My Cadillac Blackwing Precision Pack review is up on the channel right now. And what is the next video going up on Wednesday? Yeah, on Wednesday we got the Ferrari Puro Songway. Fucking forgot about the video. I completely forgot that we made the video. But it sounds nice in the drive. It's a loud vehicle.

[Zach Klapman]

As soon as I started watching the drive bys, I went, if you're wondering why people buy this, watch this clip.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. And it's very fast also, so check that out. And thank you to everyone supporting us throughout the year. Oh, I should probably say this in the beginning of the next episode, but heads up to everyone. We are going to take off the entire month of January from podcasting. We may air some videos on the channel, but we've never taken a break before. January is always a slow month, and I have a crazy amount of travel. I am not in America from January 6th until the 20th of January 24th. Wow. What I'm doing is setting up my alibi. Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

So I'm just leaving while. Let's see what happens.

[Matt Farah]

I'm going out of town. So, like. So, yeah, we're going to take off podcasting for a month. We are going to. We are going to do our pro show that month because the patrons paid for that shit, so they're going to get what they paid for with that extra show. So, yeah, we'll talk about that again another day. But mark your calendars, your podcast app isn't broken.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. And I'm not sure. I need to look into Patreon to see if they can, like, pause their payments or something. Something.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, so, yeah, I don't know about that. I think people will under. I think people will understand. We've never, ever taken. Other than holiday weeks. We've never taken a break from podcasting before.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. This is episode 978. I think we'll be at a thousand probably when we come back in February.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, we'll be getting close. All right, that's our show. Talk to you all later. We love you. Bye.