Stories from F.A.T. ICE 2026!

Summary

The Smoking Tire Podcast: "Stories from F.A.T. ICE 2026!"

Hosts: Matt Farah & Zack Klapman
Date: March 3, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Matt and Zack share their lively, in-depth recap of the inaugural F.A.T. ICE Race held in Big Sky, Montana. They dive into the unique social energy, the wild diversity of cars, challenges of racing on ice, notable personalities in attendance, and the post-race vibe. The conversation is loaded with enthusiast insight, plenty of laughs, and a generous serving of stories from a motorsport event more akin to an alpine party than a conventional race.

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Main Themes & Discussion Points

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1. The F.A.T. Ice Race Experience

• Event Atmosphere: Dubbed “a party with cars as entertainment,” the F.A.T. ICE Race is described as more social spectacle than pure motorsport—think après-ski melded with drifting exotics and rally beasts.
• Spectators & Setting: The Montana event prioritized the viewing experience, hospitality, and scenery, with the permanent track set against the dramatic backdrop of snow-capped mountains.
• Quote:

  “Chris Harris described very…he was there for five minutes and he was like, ‘This isn’t a race, this is a party. And there happens to be some motorsport-adjacent thing happening in the background.’”
  —Matt Farah (05:00)

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2. Travel, Logistics & Life on the Road

• Busy Schedules: Matt’s whirlwind travel between Montana and Spain for car testing reveals the hosts’ frantic, car-centric lifestyle, sprinkled with humor about taxes, caffeine, and bad mountain town coffee.
• Airbnb Woes: Amusing tales of missing essentials (“fake beams,” unopened packages, and frat-house style group lodging) illuminate the scrappy, real side of motorsport travel.
• Quote:

  “You never want to be the first renter of an Airbnb, ever. And I'm pretty sure we were..."
  —Zack Klapman (03:39)

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3. Diversity of Cars & High-Dollar Mayhem

• Car Lineup: From rally-prepped legends (Nissan Pulsar, Celica GT4, Lancia Stratos) to ultra-exotics (Pagani, Enzo, Singer Targa), the field included everything from $25k specials to multi-millionaires’ garage queens—some driven with abandon, others with kid gloves.
• Instagrammable Moments: Many attendees seemed more interested in capturing the perfect photo than setting fast times, while others (like Ryan Tuerck and Supercar Ron’s team) genuinely sent it on the ice.
• Memorable Entry:

  “That was just a crazy thing to see…from the back it peeked out. It’s a very distinctive rear end on the Pagani...Is that a fucking Pagani out here?”
  —Zack (08:34)

• Vehicle Notables:
  • Absence of Mercedes: "Not a one. Not a one Mercedes." (09:52)
  • Porsche Dominance
  • Homebuilt specials and affordable rally hardware

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4. Driving Challenges: Racing on Ice

• Surface Conditions: Montana's ice proved treacherous—solid ice on day one = low grip and cautious approaches; by day two, warmer weather led to slush and more dynamic driving.
• Physical Barriers: The icy walls were likened to hitting "the cliffs on Angeles Crest," contrasting with the forgiving snowbanks of European ice racing. Even light taps resulted in real damage.
• On-Track Action:
  • Matt’s experience in his Meyers Manx: Found it understeered heavily on ice, but was more playful in slush.
  • Rear-drive vs. 4WD: Four-wheel-drive monsters could attack corners, while rear-drivers (even drift champs) struggled for traction.
• Driving Technique:

  “With rally driving, it’s lift, turn, brake. That’s how you set a loose surface car.”
  —Matt (27:24)

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5. Notable Incidents & Memorable Moments

• Wheel & Tire Adventures:
  • Tire prep and spike confusion, including hand-siping Enzo tires and in-paddock modifications.
  • Manx running narrower rears for more balance.
• Spins & Mishaps: Multiple drivers (including Matt) spun on course, learning limits in front of big crowds.
  • “Everyone spun, and then they waved the yellow flag. But you, who have raced and know what yellow means...you passed all the cars that had spun and proceeded around the track.” —Zack (43:54)
• Fashion & Vibe: Attendees rocked everything from fur coats to ‘80s ski outfits, adding playful contrast to the luxury car parade.
  • "People's outfits were superb...arctic pimp with a fur coat." (54:22)

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6. Social & Cultural Dynamics of the Event

• Party Culture: Networking, live music, and camaraderie made the event a party—less “stuffy” than classic concours like Quail or St. Moritz.
  • Creators, pro drivers, and fans mingled; having fun was as important as going fast.
• Hospitality: Both ticket tiers (GA and VIP) offered outstanding food/service and event logistics; permanent infrastructure hints at future growth.
• Community & Accessibility: Pit areas were open, up-close access was encouraged, and overall organization was “Goodwood-like.”
• Quote:

  “They cultivated the vibe perfectly. It was not an old stuffy thing...There was just a lot of playfulness to it, which I really thought was great.”
  —Zack (53:49)

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7. Aftermath, Reflections & Future Hopes

• Looking Forward: Hosts are already plotting next year, hoping to enter race classes (not just exhibition), and dreaming of more wheel-to-wheel fun or skijoring if insurance allows.
• Lessons in Car Setup: Takeaways around tire choice, setup, and mental approach for next time.
• Visiting Montana: Both hosts fell for Big Sky, noting ease of access, stunning scenery, and mountain town quirks (everyone drives dirty Suburbans, dealer scarcity for European cars).
• On Climate & Weather: Noted the irony of struggling to keep the track cold enough in Montana while Miami’s Moto show was swamped by a monsoon.
• Quote:

  “The climate change is coming. But the top sponsor of this event is Mobil 1, owned by Exxon. And I'm just looking at this going, the irony of this is just incredible.”
  —Zack (37:12)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Time | Segment | |----------|-------------| | 05:00 | Chris Harris on ice racing as a party | | 08:34 | Seeing a Pagani sent on the ice | | 10:31 | Ryan Tuerck’s Celica GT-4 action | | 17:24 | Matt’s first run: ice wall nerves and technique | | 22:35 | Praise for drivers risking valuable cars | | 25:41 | Car setup: spikes, tire width, and learning to drift | | 27:24 | Rally technique and how to unsettle the car on ice | | 31:03 | Track as a permanent installation in Montana | | 35:13 | Montana car culture: Suburbans and local auto dealers | | 36:53 | Moto Miami show washed out: weather & climate irony | | 43:54 | Matt threading through spin-outs during Manx runs | | 46:15 | Four-wheel-drive vs rear-drive car performance | | 48:03 | How the tight course and ice affected incidents | | 51:01 | The social scene: Porsche dealer group and new friends | | 53:49 | Not old and stuffy—party atmosphere, younger crowd | | 54:22 | Standout attendee outfits: fur coats and ski suits | | 56:06 | Logistics: smooth transport and event management |

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “It's such an Instagrammable thing. In freeze frame with the right shot, you catch the right opposite lock…it looks super heroic...but other people are extremely sendy.” —Matt (07:41)
• “When I went to Finland, the snowbanks were soft...Here, people tapped the wall at five miles an hour in this thing and it was crunching shit.” —Matt (17:24)
• “Learning to drift in front of a crowd...that’s very difficult.” —Matt (26:12)
• “If you have a diff that on decel tightens up, it’ll send your car straight. It was the clearest example of how a differential setup can do that.” —Zack (28:36)
• “My wife forgot my [driving shoes]. So I ended up having to drive barefoot...which, like, you know, it was for five minutes...It was pretty fucking funny.” —Matt (41:28)
• “Montana's awesome...it's a fucking gorgeous place to hang out for a few days.” —Matt (33:51)
• “Everyone spun, and they waved the yellow flag. But you...passed all the cars that had spun and proceeded around.” —Zack (43:54)
• “Manx, I have stumbled into fucking gold with this company...They shipped the car, they studded the tires...All I had to do is show up with my helmet and my jacket and drive.” —Matt (41:57 & 43:18)

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Fun & Quick Hits

• Montana travel quirks: Suburban traffic jams at ski club valet, necessity for new Euro-service center, absence of Range Rover dealers, the struggle for car enthusiasts outside major cities.
• Afterparty stories: Bus rides with Chris Harris and Richard Tuthill roasting each other ("giving each other so much shit at full volume") to the confusion/amusement of Yellowstone Club passengers.
• Car fashion: From arctic furs to 1980s ski wear—intentionally cheeky, fun atmosphere.
• Technical Nerddom: Spike sizes, differential behaviors, strategy in tire choices for ice versus slush, and Manx setup experiments.

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Conclusion

The episode captures the playful but passionate spirit of the F.A.T. ICE 2026 event. Matt and Zack recount not just the motorsport action but also the friendships, mishaps, unique car builds, and vibrant social scene that define a new breed of car culture—one as much about memories and moments as about lap times.

Listeners leave with insight into both the technical challenges of ice driving and the rewarding, communal nature of automotive enthusiasm at its most welcoming and adventurous.

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(For further information, event photos, and car reviews, check out www.youtube.com/thesmokingtire and follow the hosts on social.)

Transcript

[A]

What up, everybody? Welcome to the Smoking Tire Podcast. Today's episode is brought to you by off the Record. We love off the Record here at the Smoking Tire. They are looking out for us day and night, wherever we go, driving throughout this great country. Off the Record is in our back pocket. If I get pulled over for a moving violation, you know it's some bull. And off the Record is going to fight that all the way up to the Supreme Court if they have to, because I'm not pleading guilty, you hear? Off the Record has made so many alleged moving violations disappear for me that I owe them an incredible debt of gratitude. And you don't have to owe them a debt of anything. In fact, we're gonna give you a discount. All you gots to do is go to offtherecord.com TST if you get a moving violation of any kind, any size in America, don't plead guilty. Offtherecord.com TST is where it's at. Get you 10% off all legal services. TST will fight that ticket. And boy, oh boy, do they have a great shot of winning 10% off all legal services at off the Record with offtherecord.com TST. Do it. All right, folks, on this episode of the podcast, Zach and I went up to Big Sky, Montana for the Fat Ice Race. And we have quite the recap. I brought the Myers Manx, ran it around the track. We had a good time. We saw some people, we saw some crazy cars. And we give our thoughts on the first ever Montana, Montana Fat Ice Race. Plus, the trailer drama never ends and it seems that the Moda Miami show turned into a bit of a lake. It's the Smoking Tire Podcast. Let's go. Hi, everybody. Good motherfucking Monday morning it is. I have 18 hours in Los Angeles ending at about 2pm today in between ice race and going to Spain. LOL for the Aston Valhalla.

[B]

That'll be fun.

[A]

At the. Oh my gosh, my glasses are so dirty. At the Circuito Navara, which is apparently a very good racetrack that I have never been to. N A V A R R A looks nice. It actually looks a bit coda ish from above, but so only a couple Americans get to go do this one and there's not going to be an American press car so my only chance is to quickie u turn. Don't even put the suitcase away. Unpack, repack. Off to Spain we go. But the things we do.

[B]

Sacrifices.

[A]

Not a sacrifice at all. Volunteered for. This just means a very busy 18 hours in between. I was here at 5, paying my bills, paying my taxes. That's the other. That's the other. That's just the other side of it. Gotta get here at 5, pay your fucking taxes. Happens. But a lot of caffeine. Not panic attack levels, caffeine. But we had collectively a pretty bad coffee week in Montana. The only thing bad about Ice Race week, which we're gonna talk a lot about in this show, is that there was generally not great coffee.

[B]

Well, the coffee shop in town was fine.

[A]

The coffee shop in town was fine. But like. And they were very nice. And we gave our extra passes to them actually for Saturday. But a lot of Airbnb, shitty coffee, grocery store, shitty coffee.

[B]

Well, you never want to be the first renter of an Airbnb ever. And I'm pretty sure we were based on the number of unopened packages near the door that were probably had the things that we were like, how come we don't have enough cups? They're probably in that package, but we can't open their mail because that's a federal, like a felony. Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, you know, we probably should have

[A]

messaged the owner of the house and be like, hey, is this all the shit that we feel like this house should probably have? Actually, that house that we rented, which was totally fine for our needs, was the most. It was like the most fugrezy. Like the most this is for Airbnb house ever. Like, our bedroom had fake beams in it that on one side of the room didn't go all the way to the wall. Really. Like they were cut like 4 inches short of the wall.

[B]

It's like a plastic beam.

[A]

Yeah. Like fake.

[B]

To make it look like wood. Industrial. Oh, the wood. Oh my God.

[A]

Yeah, to make it look like it was like a wood truss in the ceiling. But it was like. I mean, obviously it would be fake even if it did go up. But this is like a steel construction house.

[B]

Yeah. Because it's trying to look like a cabin sort of.

[A]

And it was like five bedrooms, two bathrooms, which is. That's some Airbnb right there. And missing some crucial elements. But it was a means to get to the motherfucking ice race. We did it like frat party style with like eight people in a house. This shit was fucking dope. This was a pretty, pretty cool event. I mean, Chris Harris described very. He was there for five minutes and he was like, this isn't a race, this is a party. And there happens to be hundred percent some vaguely motorsport adjacent thing happening in the Background.

[B]

Now, does he say that's true of the one that happens over in Switzerland? Where is it Switzerland?

[A]

In Austria. He said that one is a little bit more racy, but only because they've been doing it for longer. It's like, it's like a heritage sport over there. Whereas clearly, I mean they were racing on a, you know, if you go to a real ice race where they're like, like an actual rally car, like there aren't, there's not like champagne and you know, fancy food and it's not like a luxury experience to watch an actual ice race. You're just freezing your ass off on a frozen lake.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

You know, this is, this is a spectator focused thing. No, like the fucking timing wasn't even working half the time.

[B]

We kept going in and out. It's out. Praise ski. But with cars as entertainment, effectively. So everyone's doing the same thing. They do at like the bottom of the hill at 4pm but there's also this little entertainment pond where cars are sliding around, some of them, you know, hitting walls. Some of them are very expensive, some of them going pretty fast, some not.

[A]

It's a show. Like it's a show. And it's reflected in the fact. The fact that it's a show is reflected in the fact that like a driver's ticket to enter your car comes with a VIP ticket, but it's about a seventh the cost of just buying a VIP ticket. So like they understand the value of if you're showing up with a car, you are the entertain. Like we're going to compensate you in that other way. But that's not to say that people weren't trying to get a good time or proud to get a trophy or whatever. Zwart was absolutely trying.

[B]

A number of people were trying to win. And then a number of. There are people that had clearly done rally training, rally driving at a highish level. And then there were people that knew how to drive, like the kind of middle group. And then there were people that seemed like the only time they ever touched snow in their car is it's a Suburban, maybe driven by some like very timid, very tepid people that were just. And look, some of them were driving millions of dollars around.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they don't want to hit the wall, but they're out there.

[A]

Yeah, no, I mean there was a wide gap between. And it's, it's such like an instagrammable thing. Like a lot of the people that were going really slow, like in freeze frame with like the right shot, like you catch the right opposite lock. That happens for like two seconds, you know, and it like, wow, that looks like super heroic. Whereas if you saw the video, it's like, you know. Whereas other people are extremely sendy, you know, the homie was driving, I guess it was that guy. Supercar Ron's like someone else that works for him. That was like mobbing that sterrato.

[B]

Oh, that was rad.

[A]

Which was a turbo Lamborghini sterrato. And the guy was absolutely fucking sending it.

[B]

Big angle entry. Ye.

[A]

And actually whoever drove the Pagani on the first day, which it might have been the same dude, was sending it pretty hard in that car. That was impressive.

[B]

That was just a crazy thing to see. I remember I was walking up to, just to the start line to film stuff and from the back it peeked out. It's a very distinctive rear end on the Pagani. And I was like, is that a fucking Pagani out here? Good respect.

[A]

Yeah. And the spread of cars, it wasn't, it wasn't all super exotic stuff. I mean, there was like Amelia went out with her Nissan Pulsar, which was pretty cool. There's like, in the background of this shot, like there's Beetles, you know, Beatles, the antlers.

[B]

I mean, so they.

[A]

Yeah, there's legends. The legends cars that Graham brought. Like, those cars are like 25 grand. Like, so if it was, it could be very interesting and cheap or it could be very exotic or it could be like in this photo, which there's photos on my Instagram and I have a lot more photos. Full on rally cars. You know, there was a whole, whole section of full on rally cars you

[B]

have to drive, right? So I think they do a great job of curating a diverse array of, you know, both in terms of cost, horsepower and the intent of the vehicle. And that makes it a much more interesting show. Otherwise it would just be like, I don't know, just a bunch of rally cars and a bunch of Porsches out there, right?

[A]

There were some notable. I mean, it's probably because, you know, Ferdy, but obviously there were more Porsches than really anything else.

[B]

Definitely.

[A]

There were also. Did you notice there were no Mercedes? Not a one. Not a one Mercedes. I saw Dieter. Dieter Heinz.

[B]

Haven't seen that guy in a long time.

[A]

Lovely man. And he has a gull wing and he's like, I haven't run, I haven't driven my gull wing in like three years. It's been mothballed. He's like, I think I'm gonna like get it going and Put some spikes on. He's like. He was annoyed that there was no Mercedes representation there. Yeah, not like annoyed annoyed, but he's like, there needs to be. Yeah. Here's Ryan. Ryan Turk in his celica rally car. GT4 rally car.

[B]

That thing was cooking pretty quick. I mean, one, it's him, and two, it's also like, it's a rally car with all wheel drive and on pretty decent spikes. Not huge spikes.

[A]

Yeah. Forsberg, you know, Chris Forsberg, who's a fabulous driver. Obviously this is not in question. Rear wheel drive, Nissan patrol with like 900 horsepower that he was really struggling to drive. Like, it just, it seemed difficult, to be honest with you. This is a guy who's won the Formula Drift championship like multiple times. Like, talent not in question.

[B]

Yeah. Well, the first day it was basically an ice rink. It was like everything was really frozen. They only ran it for the first half of the day, it was so slippery looking. And then the second day it like warmed and got chopped up by spikes. So by the afternoon it was effectively like slush.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So there's more grip.

[A]

I ran at about 11:45 both days. The first day, folks, taking a quick break because support is coming in today from DeleteMe. DeleteMe makes it easy, quick and safe to remove your personal data online at a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable. Because data brokers make a profit off of your data. Your data is a commodity and anyone on the web can buy your private data details, which can lead to identity theft, phishing attempts and even harassment. But now you can protect your privacy with Delete Me. I have an active online presence, obviously, and so I really care about some of this stuff not being out there. So I used Delete me, right. I signed up for it and I put in a whole bunch of information. It did take me a few minutes to put in this info, but I put in a bunch of information about myself, my wife, my parents, my sister, my friends, not my friends, other relatives, places I used to live, places I used to work, phone numbers I maybe used to have, email addresses, et cetera. And then delete me. Went to work in the background, don't even know what they're doing over there. And they come back a few days later with this big long report of thousands of instances of my personal data online. Why is it all out there? Because I shop online like everybody else. A couple of clicks and they start to go to work deleting it. And then a month later, another report and then another report as long as I keep my account active, right? You'll see that number of instances go way down and then stay there. And then you see your spam emails go down, your fake phone calls and texts, they go down a little bit. I definitely get less fake scam phone calls than my wife, who did not use Deleteme for sure. And you can do it too. Take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Deleteme now at a special discount for our listeners. 20% off your delete me plan when you go to joindeleteme.com tire and use promo code tire at checkout. That's the only way to get 20% off is to go to JoinDeleteMe.com Tire and enter code Tire at checkout. That's JoinDeleteMe.com Tire code. Tire support is also coming in today from True Work. You see winter job sites don't mess around freezing mornings, wet conditions, and wind that cuts right through cheap gear. You need workwear that performs well when it's brutal out there. And TrueWerk builds performance workwear like it matters, because it does. You know where TrueWerk also has good stuff for skiing? I wore my TrueWerk hoodie underneath my shell skiing this last couple days. It was great moisture wicking. Didn't get sweaty, but kept that heat in in the morning. I really liked that TrueWerk H they sent me and Zach, who you could see on his Instagram wearing that True work jacket. At the ice race. He was running around filming everything and it was in the 20s, 30s out there and he was ready to go all day. Founded by a trade professional who was done with soaking wet heavy gear slowing him down, Truwerk set out to make workwear that keeps pros comfortable, capable and ready for whatever the day throws at them. Designed to be moisture wicking and wind resistant, using insulated fabrics that keep you comfortable and mobile all day even in the harshest winter conditions. True Work is it. Every piece is tested on real job sites with trade pros before it goes to market. So when winter hits hard, you're ready to work and not fighting your gear. This stuff is comfy, it keeps you dry, keeps you warm, and it helps you move. I love it. Plus, the zip pockets in the hoodie keep my stuff from falling out when I'm running around, Right? So don't let cheap gear slow you down this winter. Upgrade your day with workwear built like it matters. Get 15% off your first [e-mail], codeTire that's T R U E W E R-K.com CodeTire and now back to the show. The first day, it was really hard to drive. The video of me driving. I didn't even post the video on Instagram because it looks so slow. I had so little front end grip and if I tap the brakes, I would just like slide. I was like, oh, shit, this is. And the Manx is like. I had absolutely no idea how this thing would drive on a loose surface. Like, we had little spikes on it and, you know, winter tires, but on ice, it was like. It was pushy. Let's just say it was pushy.

[B]

Well, your weight balance must be 10 front, 90 rear.

[A]

It's not great. And so I. I got around, but it certainly wasn't anything to share on socials. The second day. I mean, if you watch the video from the Meta glasses, it's better. The car is clearly responding to inputs. We're getting some understeer, but also a good amount of oversteer. When it was a little more, it had that couple inches of slush on top of the ice. I could make use of the top end of the power band. So I realized actually, by the way, as a driver, it's a commitment because your car goes all the way up there. You gotta put these special tires on and you gotta do all this bullshit. And ultimately, if you're in the finals or something, you might get six runs, but everyone else gets between one and two runs. So it's like, it's a long way to go for four minutes of driving.

[B]

And each run is what, two laps?

[A]

Each run is. Yeah, yeah. Half an out lap and then two flyers and then an in.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it's not much driving. So if you are not familiar with your car on a loose surface and the walls, as they warned us and as we saw, unfortunately, quite a few times, they are not soft. They are hard. They're shredder fucking hard. They're like hitting the cliffs on Angeles Crest hard. When I went to Finland, the snowbanks were soft. I put a fucking Cayman GT4RS into a snowbank at 60 miles an hour and it was like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then they just tow you out and that was it. And the car's totally fine. People tapped the wall at five miles an hour in this thing and it was crunching shit.

[B]

Yeah, it was just like. It was ice. The walls were ice. As hard as concrete for sure.

[A]

So I had a, you know, open wheel car and I was like, you know.

[B]

But I think in some ways that actually helped. You know, Graham, our friend, he hit the wall in one of the Legends cars, but because the wheels were outside, he bent the wheel, but the wheel absorbed that shock, whereas our friend Ali hit. And the first thing that touched the wall was, you know, his headlight. Yeah. So, you know, look, I didn't want

[A]

to fucking hit the wall. I. I went 10 minutes, I watched Ali go out, and unfortunately, he hit the wall, and. And then I was like, well, now I have to go, well, don't hit the fucking wall. That's all the first run was just, don't hit the fucking wall. And I didn't. But it was like I was in second gear. Low rpm, getting a lot of understeer, and it just wasn't great. And I was like. And then the next time Hannah came out with me, and I saw that it was slushier, and people were coming back from their runs being like, oh, no, this is way better. So I went, all right. So we realized first gear, slam the rev limiter, top of the power band, and actually the car would rotate kind of nicely, but also it would engine brake better when you lift. So if you were. If you just lift from redline, you get enough rear brake that it's almost like a trail brake. So I could just hover my left foot on the brake, but really just modulate a bunch of the top of the power band in first gear. So most of the time, that was enough engine braking to get the car transferred enough to rotate. So it was actually a lot less braking than I thought. So that was more if you got five, six. If you're a fabulous driver, you can bang this out in one run. If you're not or if you're unfamiliar with your car or whatever, really intimidating the first time around, and then the second time around, you go, that's the shit. My kingdom for a third. But I didn't get one. So the way. How do I do that next year? Because I ran in the exhibition class, you don't get multiple runs. The way to get multiple runs is to race. We have to enter something in the race. That's the only way to do it.

[B]

You got to figure out what you have that would fit in the classes

[A]

that they have or what we can get in between between now and then.

[B]

Yeah, true.

[A]

What we can get, who can. I've already sort of. I'm already kind of working Bentley a little bit to drive that continuation 1929 Blower car. Mike, who is the Bentley? Mike rules. We should get him on the show. He's the Bentley historics guy. He's in charge of all their, like, really old cars. He's really good driver in the old cars. He's always driving at Goodwood and stuff like that.

[B]

Did he drive the old ones out here?

[A]

Yeah, he was driving. He was the guy in the white suit, the very handsome man.

[B]

He did a fantastic job.

[A]

So I was like, I want to drive that next year. And they were kind of like, well, you don't know how to drive. I will come to England and spend a couple days it's somewhere safe and I will learn to drive it. A racetrack, an airfield, like, whatever the fuck. You got streets, who cares? I'll come and I'll practice, and then I come drive it here. And they're like, okay, that sounds fine. So we have to go to England. And Richard was all. Richard Tuthill was all, hey, while you're over, just come by. They have some things happening.

[B]

Lots of things.

[A]

Richard Tuthill, that's a man who is awesome. Yeah, him. Him. Chris Harris and Maz were like, not Maz. Maz was. Maz was like, covering his fucking face. On the bus ride home from the concert, Chris and Richard were, like, giving each other so much shit at a full volume. And in a very crowded shuttle full of, like, Yellowstone Club members. It was, like, insane.

[B]

Yeah, but those guys, those members were. If they knew who they were, then they were like, this is amazing. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Championship.

[A]

Two young people on the bus who knew who they were for, like, dying. Everyone else was like, what?

[B]

Because Chris and Richard have been friends for a long, long time. They've done a lot of stuff together.

[A]

And they talked. It was so funny. But just, like, as a social experience, like, I think it was a great place to hang out. It was a great place to see friends. It was a great place to, once you were done with your session day, drink beers in a snowy but sunny fucking environment while people are doing fun, cool things in fun, cool cars.

[B]

I was impressed and excited to see not just the variety of metal and actually carbon fiber that was out there, but some of the cost of it and people really going for it and trying to slide full corners. You know, it was the antithesis of the people that bubble wrap something exotic just so that they can sell it in 10 years or two years or whatever. Like, you know, our friend Kevin Marshall's out there in the Chimera.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Tapped the wall that he. And, you know, he just received this thing, that car. I finally got up close with it. The interior is perfection.

[A]

We Will be driving one in July.

[B]

Have you seen the interior of those?

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

You like? I mean, if you like knobs.

[A]

I don't know if I fit.

[B]

It's all knobs.

[A]

I'm gonna have to take my shoes.

[B]

He's like six, I think Kevin's like six. Four.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, cool.

[B]

So you'll be all right.

[A]

All right, good.

[B]

Yeah, just. You know the Enzo that tapped the wall the first day?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it went out when it pulled out of the start line, I was like, oh, look at this. Kind of. Careful, careful, Chris out here. And I don't think they.

[A]

On that car.

[B]

They didn't. Because I have. I have footage. I haven't put it up yet, but then on day two.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I see these. I see smoke coming out from between these two men. And I walk up, and it's.

[A]

I know it sounds weird, like, okay, Quentin.

[B]

No, there's a. And one guy is hand siping the Enzo tires, and the other guy is drilling spikes into them. And every time they touch the blade to the tire, smoke came out, like, you know, you on a break? And I was like, oh, dude, they're hand cutting every tire for this Enzo. And so this person hit the wall and went out the second day. Yeah, it was pretty cool.

[A]

With better tires. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, with better tires.

[A]

Somebody who's somebody came up to me and was like, do you have any spikes? I was like, we're already here. I've solved this weeks ago.

[B]

But someone had him. Like, we. We put the spikes in Ali's car the night before, and he had a bucket up.

[A]

Like, I will. Like, they were a little unclear about what type of spikes you could and could not use. Like, they really didn't specify. I heard multiple times, like, from different people, like, use whatever you want. And I heard others, like, absolutely not. You'll destroy the ice. I was like. Philip was like, I'm just gonna do what we're doing to our cars. Like, fine. I don't know. Fuck. Okay. And so I think we ended up with 3 millimeter spikes, which are. They're not. They're bigger than studs, but they're the smallest quote spike.

[B]

Okay. Yours are bigger than the ones on Ali's car.

[A]

No, they're about the same.

[B]

About the same.

[A]

About the same as the smaller set that he has.

[B]

Yeah. So I think what you guys had and what we were installing was, like, what you would get on a road legal studded tire.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so, you know, the protrusion from the rubber is like a millimeter or something like that. But then when the rubber compresses, you get a little more.

[A]

Yeah, but then my car's 1500 pounds.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, so. And I'm not sure. It didn't seem to do as much as it should when the track was really icy. And then it didn't really matter so much because they were studded winter tires. So it didn't really matter that much. Once the track was slushy. I was just using the regular tread.

[B]

So, like, did they run narrower tires on your car than you normally do?

[A]

Yes. Narrower rears.

[B]

That's helpful.

[A]

Yeah. We ran the same width as the front on the rears. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, in the slush, there was actually you could get the car rotated and slid, you know, a decent amount. And if I had a big lake to, like, huck it in at 60 miles an hour, like, you probably could. But I was, you know, my wife's in the car. You don't want to hit the wall in front of fucking 2,000 people. No.

[B]

You're effectively learning to drift in front of a crowd.

[A]

Yeah, that's very difficult.

[B]

Did it feel like a mini 911?

[A]

Yeah, kind of. But it was. I feel 911's like, the front end would be pointier. Like, you could get the front end set in a 911 a little better. This, it would, like, push, push, push, catch.

[B]

I bet your weight balance is really wild.

[A]

It probably is. We should put that car on corner scale and see what it is. I expected it to be pretty terrible.

[B]

30, 70.

[A]

And if you watch the video, like, it's not terrible. Like, did you actually watch this video before you sent it to me or did you just send it?

[B]

No, I watched it.

[A]

You did? It's not terrible. Like, it's tricky. And also, like, on the straightaways and stuff. I'm sort of trying to manji it because. Just for fun, because why fucking do it?

[B]

And it does not work here.

[A]

Well, yeah, that's coming out of the start gate, if you like. Normally you would be already in a corner at that point. So the car is, like, set up differently there. So anyway, a lot of people.

[B]

I just meant, like, you could see you were adding angle, but it's going straight.

[A]

So here it's like, wait, wait, wait. And there's the rotation finally. So it's like a while after. And it's a while after you actually add the input. It's like, steer and then wait, wait. And with rally driving, it's lift, turn, brake. That's how you set a loose surface car. So it's lift and then just the rear. You know, the engine braking catches the weight a little bit. Turn once it sets, and even once you turn the wheel, it's like a half a second later that the front end actually goes. Yeah.

[B]

And what I noticed, speaking of that is when I was looking at all the footage on the plane is the reason Ali crashed was really. It was really interesting. I was looking through the shots, and so Ali had put these huge spikes on the back of his car, and he had normal studded ones on the front, which. Okay. Acceleration grip. Sure. But then he's getting a lot of understeer because of this imbalance.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I watched a clip from. And he's accelerating, and the car is like sliding slightly, like a little bit of angle. And then as soon as he lifts, the car totally straightens out and starts heading toward a wall.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

And it's like. Because the back with, you know, with the diff in it just ripped and just said, no, we're going this way. So that's like. If you have a diff, like a.

[A]

Like a tight drifty diff, you have

[B]

a tight diff that on D cell tightens up a lot. It'll send your car straight.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it was the most. The clearest example how a differential setup can do that.

[A]

Yeah, totally. That's very interesting. I found that that engine braking with whatever tires I did have produced a balanced effect that allowed me to turn the car better. Better than when I was at lower RPM in second gear and trying to slow it down with the brakes, because it's just the rears. So it's effectively trail braking, or, excuse me, it's effectively left foot braking, not trail braking. So, man, I wanted some more runs. I was so excited because I thought I was gonna get two runs on Saturday, and I didn't. I found out it was only gonna be one when I got there.

[B]

Oh, wait. Oh, really?

[A]

Yeah. I thought there were morning and afternoon runs on Saturday, but it was just morning. Oh, for me, for me, for the exhibition class. Yeah.

[B]

Cause they had to run more.

[A]

Cause they had to run other exhibition class cars and do, like, parade laps and stuff. But, like, I thought, like, the tickets are expensive. Like the GA's were, I don't know, $300 or something. But I do feel that you got a quality product for that $300 ticket. I really do. And the VIP was like 3,000, which is super expensive. But I think the hospitality, food service, beverage and entertainment and scenery was Better value per dollar than quail.

[B]

Oh, like, that's a. How much is quail similar? Well, I mean, quail you get like the four different or five different regional restaurant you do.

[A]

But I don't think any of them were as of the quality of the food that we actually got.

[B]

Oh, I only ate one of the things at the Quail because the food was really, really good at this thing.

[A]

The food was really good. Yeah. And I thought the service and the cleanup crews and all that shit was extremely on point. And the setting. Go back to that picture of Hannah and I. I think this is the first picture in there. This was shout out to Jeff Zwart. I was like, I never asked Jeff Zwart for anything but driving advice and to pay his WCCS bill on time, neither of which is ever a problem. But I go, jeff, I never ask you for anything. I need a favor. I need a photographer. Come take a picture of me and Hannah. But like, this track being Frame Mountain, so you can just.

[B]

Amazing.

[A]

It was really well chosen. And actually the track is a permanent installation. Like, that won't just melt and disappear. Like, there's substrate under that. Like, they are not going to, because it's in the middle of a golf course. But, like, they could run a rally school if they wanted to in the summer. Brian was like, the golfers would fucking revolt if we did that. But all of the infrastructure they built there is, like, permanent. So it's going to be there for the next couple of years.

[B]

Pretty cool. Like, it's so photogenic. And I will say that, you know, GA and VIP get pretty much the same view of things like VIPs. Like, you're. If you do GA, you're not getting on which corners you can look at and stuff, which is good. You get to see the cars doing all the same stuff. Yeah, you just, you know, you don't get, like, the food and the COVID and the hospitality and things, but.

[A]

And there's no restrictions in, like, the paddock area or anything like that.

[B]

Like, it's very peak in that way. Like, you can walk into people's pit, you. You can get right up on their cars. It's kind of like Goodwood in that way.

[A]

Yeah. And there, like, even if it's ga, like the. They had, like, enough, like, food and beverage and coffee and bathroom options that it wasn't like, ew, this is fucking. Yeah, it was. It was straight, it was good.

[B]

And it's nice that it's. I mean, this would have to maybe evolve over the years. It was an Intimate enough thing that you could. You could walk to all the cars, pits and like the track in 12 minutes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So there's not a ton to see, but I think there's enough stuff now. Maybe as it grows, if they add. Add other spectacles. That's something. That's something I think would be smart is if they added other types of entertainment. Especially when, you know, if they have to. To cut the driving short because of the track conditions, because it's too warm or whatever. If they added other stuff, that would be rad.

[A]

But ski slow hill climb.

[B]

Yeah. Ski slope hill climb that I. Everyone I talked to, like, the Rivian guys, they were like, they were like, we're excited about this. I said, have you seen the Germany ski slope hill climb? They said, no. I was like, bring your truck to that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then I talked to Harris about it.

[A]

It.

[B]

And like, everyone should go like, Scott. Oh, like you have all the Audis. No, put them together and bring it to that thing.

[A]

All the people that are. They know about ski slope hill.

[B]

Okay, good.

[A]

They. And they have ski slopes.

[B]

Yeah, like, they are.

[A]

Those are. Those are things. It's not. There isn't a ski slope at the ice race track, but there's 100ft away. There's one pretty close by.

[B]

Yeah. You know, so ski slope hill climb is crazy.

[A]

Yeah, it's rad. It was. I just. It was a good time. It was really, really well done and the spread of cars, the people to talk to. I met some new friends. They're really, really good folks across the spectrum. Really fun fans. I hung out with. They were really interesting people. And Montana's awesome. Like, it's a fucking gorgeous place to hang out for a few days. I mean, it's really nice.

[B]

Yeah, it is. I would. I could live there for six months a year.

[A]

It's pretty easy to get to from la, actually. I mean, it's easier to get. It's easier. It's as. As easier. Easier to get to Bozeman as it is to get to Vail or any of the Colorado or Utah ski resorts direct from la.

[B]

Yeah. Because you have to land in Denver and then drive to Denver. Yeah. Unless you try to fly to Steamboat, which gets canceled a lot.

[A]

Yeah, dude, this. That was nice. I like, it's weird seeing all those Montana tags and not cringing.

[B]

Yeah. Not getting mad about it. Yeah.

[A]

It's so funny. All the rich people up there, though, they all have the same exact car. They all just drive a white silver or black Suburban. That's it. That's all anybody drives. Like, you go to, like, Yellowstone Club. It's like billionaire fucking central. And they all drive the same fucking car. Really? Only because it's, you know, it's their ski house, and it's a utility vehicle. And there's apparently just no dealers in outside of a Ford and a Chevy dealer. So they all just go to the same fucking dealer with the same car. But if you hang out at the valets, like, while I was waiting for my car, all the valets are just constantly joking about how they're, like, almost pulling the wrong car all the time just because everyone has. And, like, guests are always getting into the wrong cars. Cause it's all, like, the same black suburban caked in grime from fucking skiing, dude.

[B]

Before key fobs were invented, like, when I was a valet, you had to write down the license plate because of this stuff, because now you can just walk around and hit the button and you. And you can't get in the wrong car if you're trying to unlock it.

[A]

No, the valets aren't getting in the wrong car. The customers are all getting in the wrong car.

[B]

No, you said the valets are pulling the wrong car.

[A]

Well, the valets have to. When they're looking, clearly they have a fob. But when they're looking, it's like a sea of black and silver Suburbans.

[B]

Yeah. When you have 19 guys in arc' teryx and you're like, you had the white one or the silver one, and they're not gonna have many. Maybe they'll open a new dealership eventually, but right now the population of. Of Bozeman is, like 60,000 people. So I don't know if that can support competing car dealerships.

[A]

I met a guy who is not opening a dealership, but is opening a general European car service center so that your Cayennes and your Range Rovers and shit can get. Which is extremely smart. They should just have that, because a lot of those people already have those cars. And we just send them out there.

[B]

And that's why they don't have them out there, because if they break, they go, well, what am I going to say?

[A]

They go, what am I going to say? I got to go to Salt Lake City or something? Then you get this car fucking fixed. Or Boise or something. I don't know where the nearest, like, Range Rover dealer is to Bozeman, but it ain't close. It was kind of. Did you see the photos from that Moda Miami thing, though? There was, like, an enormous rainstorm that, like, flooded The.

[B]

Oh, I did see that.

[A]

It seemed very inconvenient. I don't wanna like. But like it is a little crazy that like our ice race was like almost too warm to actually have it. And then the Miami car show, you know, in the right season gets like totally fucking monsoon.

[B]

I would like to say. And this may get me unmoda. This may get me uninvited from future races. Morta is weed in Spanish from future ice races. But like, you know, there was not enough snow. It was warm and everyone around us, a lot of locals were saying that as well. So this isn't just Zach's lefty stuff. But I'm like, no, no.

[A]

The climate change is coming.

[B]

But the top sponsor of this event is Mobile One, owned by Exxon. And I'm just looking at this going, going. The irony of this is just incredible.

[A]

Sure, there was enough. Yeah, there was enough snow to race on, but people thought there might not be. No, that's M O D E M O D A Dude, what. This is mode. It was just picture a golf course covered in expensive cars with like huge, huge lakes of water everywhere. It was fucking area. It was career.

[B]

Now let's see what footage they used.

[A]

Oh, it's not gonna be on their officials. No way. It's on their officials.

[B]

They should tell the, tell the story. Yeah, because I saw like a Career GT going through a lake.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, right.

[B]

That's what people were talking about.

[A]

Yeah, it was like, it was very, very. Yeah, that. I mean, I hope these, you know, I hope things are all right, but like, it's just like those cars probably haven't seen rain in like 40 years.

[B]

How many alligators do you think got to attend the car show? Because we're looking at car. Oh my God. Oh my God.

[A]

That is like a pre war car with like water up to its mid doors.

[B]

But it's also looks like it's sunk at an angle. So the front of the car is much deeper in the water than the back. So that's not good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Whoa. Was this on a golf course? Yeah, and it just rained.

[A]

It just rained so much, so fast.

[B]

Overnight or something?

[A]

No, during the, during the morning too.

[B]

Yeah. Wow. That is a buried car.

[A]

I mean, I don't know if those cars were like ruined.

[B]

I mean this picture, is this a Singer Targa?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Sitting in a lake with a koenigsegg, like an F12 and some kind of

[A]

911 turbo esque thing in the back here.

[B]

The water at least is only up to the rim. The Tires are submerged, but the lower part of the. The rim, what's the next, you know, walk into? That's not going to be easy.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Koenigsegg.

[A]

I do like it that. I bet you some of those photographers got amazing shots.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what it costs to get one of those flood steering reflection shots? Yeah.

[B]

918 just sitting in a mud puddle.

[A]

There was opportunity.

[B]

There you go.

[A]

Here's the radar to do the funniest

[B]

thing ever there, but so people listening. This is a shot of the radar, the weather radar at the time. And it's, you know, bright red over the venue. And if you know anything about weather radar, ready? Red is bad. Means way more rain. Yeah. There's John to me. Oh, there's John Tamarion's Instagram.

[A]

It's good that the. It's good that the cold things were warm and that the warm things were flooding. That's good.

[B]

I think John's about to dump water out of his shoes in this picture.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Geez.

[A]

Oh. I didn't even tell the story of the fucking shoes. So I. I had a lot of luggage. I had my ski stuff because I was going skiing for a couple days. I had my camera stuff because I did the podcast with Wes and because we were shooting, filming with the Manx. And then I had my clothes and also my helmet, because you need that too. So it was like I had a bunch of shit for one person to travel with. So the only thing that wouldn't fit in bag were my fucking driving shoes. I have my snow boots, my footwear. I always. Footwear for me, is very important when I travel because my feet are big and my stuff is big, but you can't just take bigger suitcase proportionally. So it's snow. So I brought those boots, those Russell moccasin boots that I love, and I was like, that's just gonna be my shoes. But I was like, but I'm gonna be in the house a lot, and the floors are hard, so I'm gonna bring Crocs home shoes. That was very smart. But my driving shoes, because I can't drive. My Manx in snow boots. Hannah was supposed to bring, and she forgot, so I ended up having to drive barefoot, which, like, you know, it was for five minutes. Like, it was. It was actually fine. But it was pretty fucking funny that I had to, like, do this silly shoe thing getting in the car. And I blew up Hannah's spot with the. The announcer came to talk to me on the grid, and Hannah was in the car and I was like, my wife forgot my. And so I'm driving barefoot. The announcer was like, put the camera in there. So this fucking people were dying. It was a good bit.

[B]

And it wasn't that. It wasn't that cold, like, so you were fine if it had been five degrees. Yeah, yeah, that would have been a problemo.

[A]

Yeah, we got the heated seats.

[B]

Oh, that's right.

[A]

Heated seats. Yes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Definitely.

[B]

I had no temperature issues the whole. Well, until I stepped in a very, very big puddle while trying to get a shot. And, like, I submerged my trail shoes and I was like, I'm glad I brought two pairs of shoes because I'm not wearing these tomorrow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But otherwise it was, like, a pretty toasty day. It was also bright and sun.

[A]

Oh, great.

[B]

So alpine sun is, like, twice as warm as sea level sun.

[A]

I had SPF 100 on my head, though. And, dude, Manx, I have stumbled into fucking gold with this company because of Manx. They shipped the car, they studded the tires, they did the. And Max. Shout out to Max, who is their radial technician from Australia. He was babysitting the cars. There was four Manxas up there. Three of them were radials, and one had a Porsche motor, which was the

[B]

loudest one, by the way, which was

[A]

the loudest one and the only one that required people fucking fiddling with. I love Eli. But the radials all started right and ran just perfectly fine. And Eli had, like three guys fucking getting the fucking. His old school ass Porsche motor going. But Philip put fucking tank treads on one of the Manxas, which was hilarious because of course, he did kind of work.

[B]

It looked cool on the ice. It did not work at all because the fronts were like snowmobile skis. Yeah. And so, you know, they need that force back from snow to turn. So that thing had a little bit of understeer now and then. But the tank tracks looked incredible.

[A]

Yeah, it did. And then they put the tires back on the front and drove it into town like that with the treads on the back. Yeah.

[B]

That's pretty wild. Wow.

[A]

Apparently, if you keep it under 50, it's okay.

[B]

Yeah, but faster than on tarmac. I bet it gets loud. Shady. It looks very cool, though. It did make for great photos.

[A]

Oh, it was fabulous. Yeah, but, like, they had a whole support, so I. All I had to do is, like, show up with my helmet and my jacket and drive.

[B]

Yeah, they were, like, warming the car up for you, all parked together. It was cool. Everyone loved watching the Manx because you guys all went out at the same time, at least on day one, as like a gaggle to race each other.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And everyone was just like, look at these cute little things. And like, I. I had a funny shot where. Where on turn one, like the big sweeper past, you know, VIP and the start line, everyone spun, and then they waved the yellow flag. But you, who have raced and know what yellow means, you slowed down, but you passed all the cars that had spun and proceeded around the track.

[A]

Oh, nice. Do you have a clip of that?

[B]

Yeah, somewhere. Cool.

[A]

Nice. Yeah. The first day, I did thread the needle through a lot of spinny cars. I spun myself.

[B]

You did.

[A]

I spun both days. Yeah, I spun in the. In the video a here.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

In the video from the meta glasses, I spun right, like 200 yards before the finish line. I spun. I was trying to fucking Manji it in front of the crowd. Cause they were super stoked. And nope, I tried to. I swing it to the right, and I have a fucking good slide out of the corner. And then I try to Manji it back to the left.

[B]

Before the chicane.

[A]

Before the chicane. Not realizing that basically nobody had driven off. So as soon as I kick left, it's just insta ice. And then I'm sliding, sliding, sliding. And then where I come to a stop, it looks like slush, but I look down and it's water. And I go, oh, boy. And so I got like a little. A little, like, almost stuck there, but I managed to, like, to get out of it already.

[B]

It's on the next lap. Okay.

[A]

Yeah. But actually it worked out because the spin allowed all the other Manxes to catch up to. And so we could sort of like have a good photo finishy group shot at the end. Like in Ford versus Ferrari.

[B]

There's a funny moment. I was on day one. I was standing just, you know, next to some strangers as you guys are all going out there and this. I'm looking at your car and I'm talking about it, and this girl goes, yeah, my boyfriend's driving that car. And I go, which car? And she goes, that one. I go, the blue one or the green one? And she's like, oh, the green one. I go, okay. Cause I know the wife of the guy in the blue one. And she kind of laughs. She's like, well, we were not gonna talk about that any, but I think. I think it was Eli's girlfriend.

[A]

Oh, okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Wife.

[B]

Wife. Sorry.

[A]

No, it's okay.

[B]

That. That makes one of the two. Oh, no, she Was the girlfriend of the guy driving. Eli was riding passengers. Okay, yeah, here's. I think your spin is he's next lap.

[A]

No, this is my. This is a flyer. This is a flyer. This is my first flyer.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

And actually kind of nice.

[B]

It was funny that some of the fastest cars of the day, I mean they were the legends cars because of power to weight. But then it was anything four wheel drive, which included raptors and the giant bronco driven by Lauren Healey. Like all these huge vehicles that of course have four wheel drive and they were able to hook up the most.

[A]

But there was also some fabulous rear wheel drive driving. I mean Zwart and Lee Keane were out there. Pat did his best in an impossible car.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Pat was driving the 911 like the R, like the Le Mans 911 and was just undriveable on that.

[B]

He drove that and he drove one of Batim's thousand horsepower things.

[A]

Oh, here's my here. So Monji right, Monji left. But sheet of ice. Sheet of ice. And now it's just. Don't hit the wall. And now my rear tires trying to move, but I'm in water. And so now I loop it or I actually get some front end traction. Don't hit the wall, please. And now let one of those guys

[B]

come by and little point by there.

[A]

Little point by. Cross the line for. It's not. It's not definitely.

[B]

I saw the Tim at the bar on Saturday night and he's like, yeah, my car was too low. I was like, you had to come here to think to realize that like you are a smart racing engineer. But there were a couple cars out there that were pretty much like dragging floorboard on the ground. And it was just so funny. He's like, I think I need more ground clearance.

[A]

Like, no, I was worried that my car was, you know, because I have the lower right. I was worried that my car might be too low, but it was not. It was totally fine.

[B]

Yeah, there was some fight like Rexy was out there, which if people watch IMSA racing is like one of the top three teams in IMSA GT class. And to see that thing is like as wide as it is long. That is a super wide 911. But it was just, you know, throwing rooster tails and doing slow drifts. And one of Lee Keane's customers, I think won his class. I think he was in the ride red Keen safari car with big spikes. And the guy was driving.

[A]

Well, I met him. He was driving very like, he was driving super clean, like it didn't look showy, but it was actually like good for time.

[B]

But he had big spikes.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And I saw a couple. You know, you couldn't. Because of the walls. You couldn't see. And they had a few flaggers. But the shape of the course is like a hair barrette with like a straight on one end, a light bulb corner, and then a triple zigzag before a light bulb corner at the other end. It's like FR. Knuckles. Brass knuckles? Yeah. Brass knuckles are.

[B]

Or hair barrette.

[A]

Cock and balls. Ish adjacent. No, hair barrette, I think is actually more like it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

No, I think it is.

[B]

I have to look up hair barrett again.

[A]

Maybe I'm that old that I can use the term hair barrette, but I feel like people know what that is. Anyway, it's. Wait, where are we now? We're talking about shape of track. Why was I talking about the shape the. Of trek? Oh, you couldn't. Oh, I did. Now I remember. Sorry. You can't see in the S's. You can't see from one S to the next.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

So a couple times people looped it in the third S. They went, huh, huh, whoa. And then the. But they'd have two cars on track at the same time, opposite ends. And sometimes they'd loop it and stall or loop it and their wheels would get stuck in a hole or something and the other guy would be coming in hot. I saw some incredible last minute avoidance maneuvers from Zwart. Did the best one I saw. He downplays it. He was like, no, there was more. There was room there. And I was like, oh, that was pretty.

[B]

There were a couple cost saving maneuvers where people came around a corner and suddenly saw a vehicle they definitely didn't want to hit.

[A]

I don't think. I don't think two cars came into contact the whole.

[B]

I think that's correct.

[A]

I think that's pretty good. Yeah, that's good. Because it could have easily happened. I mean, you could easily have a car spun out somewhere and a guy you can't stop.

[B]

Well, because some of the walls are what, three feet tall, maybe. Maybe taller.

[A]

So probably four.

[B]

Yeah. It's easy to come around a corner and not be able to see what's around it. And if the flagger doesn't see it or if you don't slow down enough, you know, based on the yellow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You could have a big problem.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What was your favorite vehicle to watch?

[A]

Ooh, my favorite vehicle to watch. I really enjoyed the four wheel drive, big power Stuff just because it was huge angle and huge rooster tail.

[B]

Bronco had the. No, like, big V8 and fast and angle. It was sick.

[A]

You know, a lot of the other cars that on a tarmac course would be so fast are just so slow at this. And so that's kind of a funny thing to see, that kind of stuff being humbled a bit, you know, Like, I bet if you compared the lap time of, like the Pagani or something to the Manx, it's probably like the same. Oh, for sure.

[B]

That old Beetle smoked the Tim's cars, the other 911, the Singer Turbo. I mean, all those things were going three miles per hour.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Chris was driving the singers and I was like, how is that? He was like, misery, man. He was like, not.

[B]

It just wasn't. They're all at Redline and, like, you know, letting off boost and stuff, which

[A]

was cool, but barely moving and going like nine. Yeah, it's in the car. Like, you know, the video of the Manx, like, it looked. It's slow. It's like Hannah was like, we topped out at 29 miles an hour or something. It's like, not fast, but, like, you have no traction at either the front or the back end. So, like, it is pretty exciting. The walls are there. The walls are very much there. But, dude, so many nice people. All the fucking crew of Porsche dealers I met and hung out with David and Mark and Howard. All these guys own their own Porsche stores. I was six of them fucking guys. And Shannon, all these Porsche dealers, they all had this big. This VIP tent and they took such good care of Hannah. Made sure she got the best view when I went out and whatever. It was so nice. Um, and all the new, like, racing people I met and Montana people we met. It was cool. Really cool. Definitely have to go back. Nice, but we have to go back with a. With a car that's in the race.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was wondering if they would allow kit Cobras with spikes. Probably not.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Maybe. I mean, they allow, like, weird built shit, so.

[A]

Yeah, like, I probably. Like who? Who knows?

[B]

Maybe I'll ask Phil.

[A]

We could figure out something that would be fun and interesting. Like, I don't know what, but maybe. I mean, if Graham's going back, maybe we run one of the Legends cars.

[B]

I told Graham, like, we need.

[A]

We can't. They won't let us have, like seven Legends cars.

[B]

I said four. I think I pitched wheel to wheel Legends cars for Max and I, you know, I think there's enough Room for that. The cars are cheap enough and I think the liability is fine.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he was. And I'm texting him and he's like, all right, if we do that, you have to drive one. And I said, this text thread counts as a written contract.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I witnessed myself.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I think that would work because

[A]

there's so little it could work. It's probably one of the only things you could wheel to wheel race there. They said this year their insurance company said absolutely not to wheel to wheel racing. Also said absolutely not to skijoring, where you tow skiers. But they said they're really trying to get ahead of that so they can do it next year. So I don't know what that's going to do.

[B]

Skijoring. I mean, on the first day you need ice skates.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. So shady.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I would love to see it.

[B]

It'd be funny if they go back to their insurance and they go, we'd like to do wheel to wheel. And they say, no. Like, okay, what do you think about, you know, drag race, hill climb, wheel to wheel. And they go, nevermind. You can do the legends thing. Fuck.

[A]

So fun. Shout out to fucking Sam and Brian and Jack and David and Jen and fucking all Mt Ferdy and Rena and Brittany and Vreni and Max and Carlos and Philip and anyone else who I may have forgotten.

[B]

They cultivated the vibe perfectly. It was not an old stuffy thing, which I would say quail can sometimes feel like that Monterey Car Week. It's just this. The music was aimed at people like 28 to 40. I mean, it was definitely a party atmosphere for people around our age and younger and the creators they brought with, you know, Forsberg and other people with like, big turbo crazy shit, there was a lot less. There was just a lot of playfulness to it, which I really thought was great.

[A]

It wasn't all like, 60s supercars.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, which some of the, like the St. Moritz stuff, for instance, can sort of be that, you know, it feels like Villa d' Este but on the lake. Whereas they're trying to make it more young and fashiony and fun. The people's outfits were superb. Really good. I mean, there was definitely some like Richie Rich cowboy chic all over the place, but also like some very funny, like, 80s ski outfits and like. But Tim was like fucking arctic pimp with his fucking fur coat.

[B]

I got a great photo of him and Amelia standing next to each other,

[A]

both wearing furniture with me. The picture of me and Hannah I think there's a. There's a gallery that might have Batim's fur cuff. I don't know. Did I not have it? Shit. Shit. No fur coat. Oh. He was in the racing suit instead of the fur coat. Amelia had the racing suit over fur coat.

[B]

Look, it's the smart thing, you know, your racing suit's not that warm. You throw the coat on until you're ready to get in the car again.

[A]

Finally got to wear my Lotus jacket after three years.

[B]

Good jacket.

[A]

Good jacket. Actually, Hannah was like, it worked out. It made me like a beacon. Hannah said I was very easy to find.

[B]

That is very true. It was really helpful for me.

[A]

Everybody else was wearing those fat jackets, which are cool, Jack. Like, you couldn't find anybody.

[B]

Well, then they also looked like employees. So I kept thinking, like, oh, they work here. And then you'd realize it was a person. Like, Harris was wearing one for half the day, and he just looks like someone who works there.

[A]

I was hoping that if I wore the wrong brands in front of Ferdy for long enough, he would just give me one out of frustration.

[B]

You should have worn a Mercedes jacket maybe, and then you. Maybe.

[A]

But I was wearing the Ferrari thermal the first night, and then I was wearing the Lotus jacket. He's like, come on, man. So I bought that red hat and a sticker.

[B]

It was very well done. And the logistics of transportation was so impressive for getting people in and out from town and up and down. I mean, it was pretty when they. They had, like, 15 long buses. I thought, this is too many buses.

[A]

But no, it was. It was actually. It was great. We had. I had to take shuttles to all three lots on different occasions, and they were very efficient.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So that was. That was what Zach and I have been doing for the last, like, week. You want to go to the. The people.

[B]

We had 52 minutes.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, we can go to the people. In the meantime, can we stop sending me towing recommendations? Because now the towing recommendations are getting crazier. Like, they're not. We've already covered all the normal stuff. Now it's stuff that's full of, like, rage. And what's funny is there's extremely passionate people about towing on either side side of the. You must have double your. Whatever you need to tow, you must have double that capacity, and you absolutely do not need that double capacity. And here's 100 examples of people who are doing it this other way. And these people are both fucking adamant. Absolutely adamant. And I'll tell you something. They can't fucking bother be right.

[B]

It's true. It's like a subjective thing, I guess,

[A]

but I deeply regret having this discussion in. In public. I. I learned years ago that the way that someone like me should buy a car is to have.

[B]

Just buy it and then tell.

[A]

Just buy it and then go, here's what I bought.

[B]

Or call two people and ask them what they think. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Cuz like, anyway, anyway, we should please stop now. An email I got like yesterday started friendly and by the end, by the end of the email it was like, enjoy your warped brake rotors and smoked transmission. Like, what happened? Were you trying to give me advice? Are you trying to like pre call me a cuck? Like, what are we doing here on the other side?

[B]

Someone messaged me and they have one of these. Brian, was it? Brian? John.

[A]

Brian James.

[B]

Brian James trailers. And they live in the UK and they said that these trailers are balanced in a way that is meant to be used with lighter cars. You don't need the big truck, all that kind of stuff. So now I'm saying this. And if people live in America and they have trailers that are also balanced that way, don't yell at me. This is just what they were said. Because in the uk, in Europe they don't have trucks. So the trailer design might be meant to be used with something like that.

[A]

I mean that was kind of the idea. All the photos on the website, they're using a goddamn Discovery like a Golf. It's a fucking disco. It's probably a shitty diesel disco too. It's in England. It's not an SVR one.

[B]

The only thing I would wonder is, do they have big mountains and hills in England that you go up and down? Whereas we drive to Yosemite with the trailer and come down and crossing through the country.

[A]

I mean, their mountains are not as big. Their mountains are. No, but if you have a hybrid, if you have a regenerative braking system and fucking Cayenne brakes, dude, you'll charge

[B]

your battery so fast.

[A]

Probably, but you're not smoking a Cayenne brake going down a hill because you've got a fucking trailer. I refuse to believe that that company would sell a car like that. Wes had such a terrible experience with a Cayenne, he fucking went off on it. But that's not representative of the larger Cayenne ownership experience.

[B]

Well, he also lives in Montana where there's no service center.

[A]

Also true. Let's go to the people, the people who keep the fucking ship floating down the ocean. Patreon.com the Smoking Tire podcast. It's the best way by far to support your favorite car, podc. It makes you dollar for dollar, about 1000x more valuable than someone who listens to the ads. And we certainly appreciate all of you. You also get to ask questions for the show, catch the live stream, get the show before anybody else, get the show without ads, and get exclusive access to collabs and the special things that we make with people who make things here at Smoking Tire. Let's see a dog named Frog in a Unimog. I was super stoked for the road and track drive in the northwest, but it rains here in June. I don't want to risk the money on an iffy weather month. Have any of the other drives you've hosted had bad weather? Yeah, of course. Obviously it's rained. We can't control that. We tried to. We tried to.

[B]

Cause you're Jewish.

[A]

We tried to use the Jewish space lasers. Hearst set up that system for this eventuality. All Hearst publications do have access to the Jewish space laser system.

[B]

It's built into the tower.

[A]

Yeah, that's what your entry fee buys you. You do get. It won't always be sunny, but whatever weather we do get, we paid for.

[B]

So

[A]

it's 60 of the time. It works 100% of the time. I mean. Yeah. What are you going to do if it rains? I mean, it typically does not stop us from doing anything. So it's never rained on one of our track days, so that's important. And like, it does rain in the Pacific Northwest in June, but it's not like the super rainy season.

[B]

It's usually in intermittent.

[A]

Yeah, it's usually pretty nice, actually. It's a good time to go there. Panic at my disco says, all right, wants the Korean taco recipe. The problem with the Korean taco recipe is it's not like a recipe. Like, you go to the Korean market and you. This is fucking hard to explain. You get marinated bulgogi beef, or you marinate chicken, or you pick your fucking protein. Marina, marinate it. And then you cook it in an iron skillet or whatever. That's your protein. And then you get tortillas and I like flour. That's your tortillas. You can get some kewpie mayo and make an aioli out of that. Or you can get some sesame kind of sauces. Basically, you go to the Korean market and you get a bunch of the pickled vegetables and kimchi and crunchy, healthy bits that are colorful in the kimchi section. Section. And then you get your meats, you get your tortillas. And then I make a guacamole, ish thing out of diced cucumbers and avocados. And I make a sauce out of soy, sesame oil, mirin, and rice vinegar. And that's a sort of a guacamole. And I put some sesame seeds on that. And then you just, like, make a spread at the table with the tortillas, which you heat up in the skillet so they're nice and toasty tortillas, the proteins. And then you just like make tacos, taco bar kind of thing.

[B]

The difficulty of the recipe is directly related to your proximity to a Korean market. Yeah, right. Because if you can get all the side things, you just go buy them. If you have to make all those from scratch now, it's like an 8 out of 10 because you have to pick all this stuff.

[A]

It's also mildly annoying because most Korean markets don't have tortillas and sometimes don't have avocado. So it's a two.

[B]

Oh, for sure. Yeah.

[A]

Let's see the clutch whispered. Thinking about getting a BMW 230i coupe. Thoughts on the latest gen 2 series? Slightly used one with the last gen system. We drove the last gen one.

[B]

It was good. Yeah, it's a very light car. Fun canyon car. Really comfortable.

[A]

Dre from Houston, have there been any missteps in content that you've done that you felt like was a miss or didn't age well?

[B]

Well, age well?

[A]

Well, there's a lot. I mean, there's so many. I mean, there's. There's gotta be dozens of jokes I made from 2009 to 2012 that. That did not age well.

[B]

First 30 podcasts.

[A]

Yeah, there's plenty of that. So try not to judge me today on whatever the fuck I said in 2010, please. But, you know. Yeah, I mean, there's. We tried to put the podcast and the YouTube channel on the same channel for two years. That was a bad idea. That would be a big misstep of mine.

[B]

I mean, our King of Hammers video last year was a miss because we put a lot of work into it and it got, like, no views. That was a miss in terms of. We thought our audience would be into that content and into. Incorrect.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, y' all don't like

[B]

trucks very much in off roading.

[A]

I mean, unfortunately, like, we now know what it takes to get, like, good traffic on stuff and get picked up. Like, we know. It's just like, I would rather fucking kill Myself than do it. Seriously. I'll park cars first. So that's if you see that there's like, you know, down less traffic or stuff that doesn't do so well. Now I could make a title that's like this thing sucks or something and it would probably do a lot better. Talk mad shit about stuff.

[B]

Well, we talked to someone recently and you can name them if you want to, but the parts of the video that get the most traffic are standing and talking about the vehicle, not the driving of the vehicle. And for a long time it was the opposite in our experience. And what we like to do is drive the vehicle. So.

[A]

Yeah. Oh man. Murray, Long last name says what Italian design studio would you have designed your flagship car if you ran a manufacturer? I mean it's hard to not say Pininfarina, right?

[B]

That would be my choice.

[A]

That would probably be my choice.

[B]

I think I've liked their style the long for the most almost decades.

[A]

Or Giugiaro, but probably Pininfarina Quadrifolio face. Would you. Would you put white wheels on your car? Only certain. Only rally car.

[B]

Rally looking cars. Depends on the color of the car and the size of the car, I think. And yeah, they won't be clean most of the time, but that's okay. I think they think they can look cool in the right moments.

[A]

Very selectively though, it's like you gotta, you gotta really apply white wheels with a gentle touch. Rally cars can work.

[B]

I think some Mercedes, like Sedanza can work.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Like a white. White on white maybe, maybe I don't think you could do like red on white or. I don't know.

[A]

I mean if it's not a rally thing or like an IMSA type of thing, I would probably.

[B]

Well, and then the question is, does this look better in white than any other color? Like if the wheel is cool and it could be work, but is it forcing it? It would look better as silver.

[A]

I think most of the time people put white wheels on their car, they would look better in other colors. Except rally cars. Clear rally cars have at it. You can have your white. Mustang. Geek says, what do you think of Ford's low cost EV platform project? Promising path forward or an overhyped project destined to fall short of expectations?

[B]

It seems like are they going after slate? Basically we saw what they did and they said, okay, let's try to do that too.

[A]

Yeah. Ford has a real habit of seeing what other people are doing and then trying to get in that market and sometimes it works. They made a better Tesla model Y with the Mach E if you ask me. But I keep wondering if there really is because if there is a market for someone who wants an electric truck but a very cheap electric truck, is there a customer for that? I assume Farley and whoever else thinks that there's a customer for that. Same thing with Slate. Does somebody really want the Nissan Versa of electric trucks or wouldn't they just rather just buy a fucking unkillable. Like if you, if you said to someone for $25,000 you can have this small truck and it has a Corolla motor in it or an electric Ford powertrain in it, which would they want?

[B]

Well I don't know. It's like you could buy the Maverick or you could buy a Slate or a, you know, a Ford Slate essentially.

[A]

I just, I don't. Do you think there's a customer for that?

[B]

I don't know. I think it would go towards fleet sales and commercial use first. First and I wonder if Slate seeing the take rate be higher from like commercial stuff than it is from individuals and maybe that, maybe that's the argument. Like if you have a gardening company and all of your leaf blowers and shit are electric now can you charge them off the truck? So then are they buying it delivery vans? You know we're seeing more of those like Rivian delivery vans and other companies

[A]

that make delivery vans work but that's not. I don't know if that was pitched

[B]

as like this I'm just saying like I don't know if that's where the popularity was would be versus because you get more torque and power than you would from a cheap ICE engine. Maybe that's some of the argument but I don't know.

[A]

Yeah I guess if you are using electric tools and you can then keep them charged off the truck that is a benefit.

[B]

I'd be shocked if people like individuals want this as their daily or something. I think it would be much more. I think there's business cases for it from businesses.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Maybe

[B]

we'll find out.

[A]

I don't know. I would, I would probably buy. If I was going to buy that I'd probably buy a Ford before I'd buy a Slate.

[B]

I would do.

[A]

Yeah. Granny Shifton, not double clutching like you should. 2 to 300k pre owned supercar. What are you buying?

[B]

Buying? Oh yeah, 720.

[A]

Oh well let me inform you Zach Clapman that you can put the 750 gear set in a 720 for about $26,000.

[B]

Yeah, I would do a 720s. I was really staring at the 458 for a second because of the sound, but it's not my favorite Ferrari aesthetic. I like the 720s a little bit better. And the 720s has, like, the greatest steering in the world, and it's fast as fuck. Yeah, I would do that.

[A]

Yeah. 720 with 750 gears would be a real delight. Road head and track marks.

[B]

That's a good one.

[A]

That rules. You've stated on the show before that West Virginia has surprisingly good roads. As a native, I've seen this firsthand. What part of our state were you thinking of specific? Specifically, where's Summit Point? That Summit Point. The racetrack is where I've been in that area. Summit Point's in Virginia for the rest, I think. Right. Is in Virginia, not. No, it is in West Virginia. I remember being on several different press launches that have been originated out of Summit Point and the drive routes in that area. I guess if you go the mountains to the west there. Yeah, it's got to be. That looks like the mountains to the west of Summit Point, which is near. What. What's that? Winchester.

[B]

Hayfield.

[A]

Hayfield. That's the Virginia side. Or maybe the north Northern. What's that say? Sleepy something. Wildlife area.

[B]

Unger. Sleepy Creek Wildlife Management Area.

[A]

Yeah. Like, what's. What's that by that river up there on the left? Keep going up to the left. Like, is there some road down there? Is that a windy road?

[B]

Oh, very, yeah.

[A]

Pawpaw.

[B]

And just by pawpaw.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Doe Gully, Little Orleans.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Basically this is called Highway 9 and 51 near the town of Forks of Kakapon. I'm not laughing at that. I think that's probably a Native American name of some kind.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, I will laugh at.

[A]

So it's basically at the corner of West Virginia, Maryland and Virginia. Is the. Is the. What is the what? Fuck me. What is this mountain range? Is it Appalachian?

[B]

Probably? Right. That's the one now. The one that runs most of the eastern, right?

[A]

Basically, yeah. So kind of in the mountains. Yeah, the western. Western.

[B]

I have no idea which roads I've driven in West Virginia. I just remember they were very good and there was nobody around. Like when we did the Rally North America in 2015. Yeah.

[A]

They were just generally of a very high caliber.

[B]

Yeah. Tarmac was good quality. Camber was right. Shape was nice. Yeah. It seems to be just true of the east coast in general once you get out of the cities.

[A]

Well, considering West Virginia is known for having, like, no money it's surprisingly good. I think.

[B]

I think they just like Tennessee. I mean Tennessee I don't think has a lot of money, but the roads are fantastic because they don't have earthquakes and maybe they don't have a lot of like freezing temps that then heat up like Colorado. So yeah.

[A]

Royale broham with cheese. For pretty much the entire history of cars, the collector market has followed a pattern of value spiking. When middle aged people can afford the cars of their youth, which of course we're seeing now with cars from the 90s and aughts, will that cycle be broken 20 years from now?

[B]

That's a good question.

[A]

Because the people won't be able to afford the hypercars because all the cars are still too expensive. Yeah, I mean they're making more supercars than ever. Not all of those cars can be investment grade.

[B]

Very true. I think we might see like right now there's more people with more money than ever. But will that population dwindle because people little younger than us, there's fewer people that are going to make that kind of money. I don't know. So everything might be.

[A]

I don't think the cycle will be broken. I think there will be enough enthusiasm among the youth to buy the cars that they. I don't like. I see young kids that are into cars.

[B]

Oh, I don't think there won't be that. But like, let's just say there were. Let's say there were 40 million boomers that made enough money to drive the muscle car market insane. And also the market's big A above it. Right. And then now there's maybe like 30 million millennials that have lots of money. They're pumping the Radwood cars and everything else. But maybe because of income inequality in the K shaped economy, will there be only 20 million Gen Z that have that kind of money?

[A]

Well yeah, but you, but like there'll be this 1500 billionaires that will hoover all this shit up. I think. The car price market will follow the cycle. There will be the spike. There will just be fewer people buying

[B]

more cars each and buying at the top I think. So maybe we would see a softening in prices of the cool cars from the aughts that weren't blue chip shit.

[A]

Yeah, the GTS TS and the NA Supras and, and whatever.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Voices off Camaro re disabling ADAs and liability. Oh, we spoke with a lawyer or insurance person about this and he said in 20 years experience, to his knowledge there has never been an insurance claim denied because an ADAS system was disabled. He said he's never heard of it. Which I think would answer the question posed there. Duffel Shuffle retirement club. Any low key ballers at the ice race? Group B rally cars in driver condition or meticulously restored Euro spec cars? Oh, low key ballers. I mean there were multiple Fiat 131 Bravas which you don't see in one place. One was a little scruffy and one was a full on race.

[B]

The white one was a race car, was fast.

[A]

Yeah, I mean I didn't see any

[B]

like proper group B stuff. There's one Escort there for the Ford Escort.

[A]

There was an Escort Cosworth, one of the Repsol ones and there were a couple other. Like there was a bunch of ralified 9 11s that were. But they were not like Ken Block. Lucy Block drove Ken's East African safari car. But nothing that was like there was a. There was a dude ripping a real Lancy Estrados.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

I mean that's.

[B]

But there was no, there was no Tommy Mackin in something. There wasn't a Colin McRae.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Subaru. There wasn't anything like that.

[A]

Yeah, I don't think Ferdy wanted to fill the whole thing with competition rally cars. I think he wanted. I mean because there was a bunch, you know, there was, there was all wheels drive, like huge power all wheel drive and then there was like rally car and then there was two wheel drive, four wheel drive or four wheel drive, two wheel drive and then like supercar and then classic and then show. Like that's a lot. So they couldn't have too many cars from any one category.

[B]

But. And I also think a lot of the visual excitement comes from the juxtaposition position of, you know, the super street car or the sport streetcar in the snow sliding sideways. So if it was just. If it was so many rally cars, you go, well, yeah, I expect rally cars to be in the snow.

[A]

Yeah. Gently used. Marital aid says thoughts on aesthetic special editions cool or crap. For example, the BMW M2 Turbo design, you know, Porsche heritage design packages and whatever.

[B]

Toyota Corolla S, you know, it's aesthetic but there's no performance change.

[A]

I don't hate that they exist, but I don't like when people collect stuff like this because it's supposed to be a collector's edition. I think that's sort of douchey. If you like the colors and you want to buy this as the color package for your car, like, okay, cool, but don't come up to me and be like, I have an M2 Turbo design edition. You and M2, buddy. Yeah, it's got a fucking color.

[B]

And I think that's the weird thing of this for, you know, the original 2002 Ti or Turbo was like, it was a different piece of hardware under the hood. And they also wanted to signal that to people out in the street to tell you that it was different. This, you're signaling that. But then actually it's the same car as everybody, everybody else has. So if you really like the way it looks, rock on.

[A]

But I don't like, hate every caritage scheme. The Porsche Heritage Edition Targa that we drove, I didn't love the graphics, but I liked the rest of it.

[B]

It was a good car. But the meatball was dumb.

[A]

The meatball was dumb. The graphics are dumb. But let's just. We must not disparage the Mercury Nautica Villager. Ever his hallowed minivan. But like, you know, other examples, this person has a Volvo CC Ocean Race, a Giulia Quad Supersport, and a Lotus Amira Chapman Bespoke Edition. If I saw you at a car show and you said you have a Lotus Amira Chapman Bespoke Edition, I would cringe in your face. I think you have an Amira.

[B]

So this is a super sport.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, again, if you like the color package, fucking rock out with your cock out.

[B]

The good news here is the Alpha Quad Super Sport is just black.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Maybe there's other colors too, but it doesn't have like a. The BMW had very bright turbo colored graphics all over it.

[A]

Yeah. Don't hate it, but, you know, it ain't special. It's just a color.

[B]

If you like it, that's what. That is, what is important.

[A]

Right. Lightning McDrag Queen. Taking a work trip to Mammoth Lakes in California in April. I'm probably gonna fly into Reno and rock rent a car. Any good driving roads or must see spots between Reno and. I mean. Yeah, dude, all of them.

[B]

Like Alabama Hills. You're taking the 395?

[A]

No, Reno's north of Mammoth on the 395. Alabama Hills is south.

[B]

Right, but they're flying to Reno and then driving. Sorry, Alabama Hills is south.

[A]

Mammoth Mammoth Hills. Yeah. No, I mean like all the roads around Tahoe drive to. Instead of take the time. Instead of driving straight from Reno to Mammoth, drive to Mammoth via Tahoe. So go around and then make a, you know, spend a night in Tah. Maybe not spend a night, but like that's the. The fun way.

[B]

Yeah. Because otherwise you're just 395. And there's hiking galore. Like go to Bishop and go west up whatever road it is that goes up to Mosquito Flats. And you can park at 10,000ft and do one of the greatest, easiest hikes along Little Lakes Valley. If you like like walking it is one of the most beautiful places I've been to.

[A]

That's also where we went to Bristlecone Pine Forest.

[B]

Right, that's on the east side, which is really cool.

[A]

Yeah, that was super cool. But basically just like look for the squiggles. Plan to drive from Reno around Lake Tahoe and then down to Mammoth and then just find the squiggles because there's like tons of them there. Tuffoed bought an F87. Is that. What is that? What's an F87? I don't actually know what that is. I've been using on my daily. On the turnpike in the Garden State Parkway. I find the suspension to be very stiff. Do you have suggestions for softening it up?

[B]

Oh, the M2 was the. Before it got ugly.

[A]

It's the old M2. Yeah, yeah. I mean an aftermarket solution. If it's a competition then it's. Then it's stiffer.

[B]

Yeah, that was a very.

[A]

That was a really stiff one. The non competition was better in that regard. The turnpike sucks, dude. Driving it M car down the turnpike is terrible. That tarmac is garbage, I think.

[B]

I mean they said, you know, Ohlins, maybe the manufacturer is less important than the spring rate and the intention of the coilover. So you could. I mean there's plenty of good companies that make great suspension. You honestly might have to do research from like rally forums or contact a suspension company and just say like write them and say here's what I'm dealing with. What would you recommend? And a lot of them will assemble a spring and a shock for you and you'll say, hey, we'll put this lighter rally spring on this street damper or something. And that might be the solution.

[A]

Yeah, these are like pretty small companies. Like they'll. They'll work with you on a specific package. But man, that's a tough M2 on the turnpike every day. That's that when I commuting back and forth to Philly on the turnpike from. From where I was from in Mustang that was like. I did that for six months and was like, get this Mustang the fuck out of here. And I bought an suv. Light bias. What are your feelings on the recent watch market report? And it's bad news. For brands like Longines and Omega. I didn't read the watch market report mainly because I don't give a shit. But it's the K shaped economy, bro. Everything. Let me guess, Rolex, Patek and AP are making a fuck ton of money and everyone else is down. And if you make a mid tier watch right now, your customer's not spending money like they're not buying a new watch right now. It would suck to be in the market of five to $10,000 watches right now. That would be bad. But if you're selling watches for like $500,000, you my friend, have no problems. Because in this economy, fucking 2,500 people globally buy all. Keep all of those people afloat.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

The swinging tire. What unusual cars would make fun ice race cars? Depends if you want. What do you want fun to mean? Do you want the car to actually drive properly or are you just talking about silly?

[B]

Well, there was a Caterham there. Yeah. And that I think needs a little more ground clearance. But that would be very fun because it's like a street driven legends car essentially.

[A]

Yeah. Sam's aerial Atom. Oh, aerial Nomad. Was, was.

[B]

That was Sam's car.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That whoever drove it did it well too because they were sliding it very nicely. That's a good thing for that.

[A]

Yeah. You know a. Like a Renault R5 Turbo. It would probably drive terrible, but it

[B]

would drive terrible on the street too.

[A]

Yeah. They're not great. That off road Viper, that would be

[B]

cool with some big, big spikes, I think. Yeah, I think front engine is great because you can just carry the slide past the whole crowd. So that's what I'd want to do. Something like, you know, big a fox body with big like 1 inch spikes on it. I mean anything like that would be super cool. That big, was it like nine foot? The one that was like a trophy truck.

[A]

Yeah. With the ls. It didn't seem to be running right.

[B]

It didn't. Yeah. You had a trans problem and it wasn't fat, but it was like good spectacle.

[A]

It did look cool. Yeah. 944s seem to be about, about right as well. I mean people, there's a couple different lifted 944s that were cool.

[B]

I know something loud with four wheel drive would be great. Amelia's car was rad.

[A]

Yeah, it was.

[B]

That's such a cool thing.

[A]

Yeah. R32 Skyline rally car would be kick ass, actually. That would be super fun. I would very much enjoy that. Rye country night school. You're building a replica Cobra and You can choose any engine, but it can't be a V8. What are you gonna use?

[B]

Why would you do this? I mean, just to make.

[A]

The only answer is V12. It could be a V12. This.

[B]

I hate this question. It's so stupid. And I'm like really angry about it. I know, it kind of surprised me. It would sound wrong. And the engine would be so long. Too big. Straight six. And then you're basically driving a Jaguar, but with more steps.

[A]

What about a W12?

[B]

Sure.

[A]

All right. A W12 would be the length of a six cylinder.

[B]

I'd do like an RB, I guess, and just make it 1500 horsepower. And just to placate yourself for not having a V8. This is a dumb question.

[A]

Let's see, kind of did that tickle your pickle for a triple nickel. What's your favorite wheel design? Five spoke mesh turbine phone dial.

[B]

I'm a five spoke person. Like if I had to just choose one kind of setup for the rest of my life, I'd go five spoke of varying thicknesses or the BBS rally cars. Like that wheel, when it's filled out, that's rad on the right vehicle.

[A]

The problem is it's highly, for me, highly specific to the car. There is no favorite design I would put on all cars but the Chromodora. So style, which is basically the Ferrari Daytona wheel through the 328 wheel. So like that five spoke Italian star that was on everything.

[B]

It's like the three piece look, I guess it was really.

[A]

Well, just look at a Ferrari Daytona magnesium wheel. That. Yeah. So it didn't have to be that color, but that, that star pattern. Right. That you. That started on the Daytona and it went through pretty much every Ferrari of the 80s. You could get with a variation of this star pattern. Right. So I think that pattern looks the best on the most different types of shapes. You know.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

You could make a wheel that looks like a five spoke wheel. You could make a five spoke wheel fit on almost anything. Constant.

[B]

Especially with like that simple thick spoke. I've seen it on 911 turbos. I've seen it on Mustangs, on, you know, whatever. And I think it works on pretty much everything.

[A]

Sly Stallone's glass coffee table. The latest season, Guy Fieri's tournament of champions just started. If I could cook in a competition against another automotive journalist, who would it be and what would I make? Who else is a good cook that we work with?

[B]

Is Johnny a good cook?

[A]

He's a great baker. His Bread is fucking fabulous. I don't know if I've ever had his cooking that wasn't bread.

[B]

But I've never eaten food made by another journalist.

[A]

I don't know if I've ever. Yeah. Who's. You know who was a really good cook? Amelia.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Amelia. Amelia made me and Hannah a great. She was. She was a very good cook. I was impressed. Johnny's probably a good cook. If I had to guess, I would guess that he is. Who else do we have?

[B]

I bet Dan Neil can cook. He just seems like probably. But I don't know this.

[A]

I bet some of the like really fancy people that. That go on. Like people that like the right for like Rob Report. Someone like Basam. Yeah. Bassum can probably cook if I had to guess. Shit some. I know. I know. Someone somewhere is like. I know.

[B]

I bet you Harris can't cook for shit.

[A]

No, he can't cook for nothing.

[B]

Chris.

[A]

Couple like cameramen, like. I know a few production people that are better cooks than actual automotive journalists. I'd go head to head with Amelia if I had to go cook off for sure. Daytime running with my camel lights. Nice. If you had to pick someone from the YouTube space to review each of your cars, who would you choose? Personality and car.

[B]

That's fun.

[A]

I would want Chris to review the Manx. I would want. Jethro to drive my Spider, and I would like Doug to drive the Delica.

[B]

Oh, interesting. Yeah, that's a good one. This person suggested regular cars for the Delica, which would also be hilarious, but totally different style.

[A]

Did they do that?

[B]

Probably.

[A]

No, they didn't. They did. It was. They did my DeLorean back in the day and then Nino's Dodge Nitro, I think. Did they do the Delica at some point?

[B]

I don't remember.

[A]

Matt's Fox body qualified for the bus lane. A couple shows back. You talked about the chimes in the Maserati with no visual indicator. The Nav and Stellantis products picks up red light cameras, among other things. And chimes with no visual indicator. If you're running in CarPlay. There we go. That's it. It's gotta be a red light camera chime. It's gotta be. Okay, a couple times it did happen at the red light camera near my house. Between my house and the 90 freeway in that area where I know there's a red light camera. That's a good note. Thank you.

[B]

So it's just saying you're approaching a

[A]

red light, but it's going ding, ding, ding.

[B]

Right no, I'm just. But like that's.

[A]

You're approaching a red light camera.

[B]

A red light camera. Why did I say red light?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. And that's helpful.

[A]

It is.

[B]

And if you drove this thing in South Korea, that thing would have a metronome effect. There's so many.

[A]

Well, apparently you can. Once you know what it is, you can turn it off.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. All right. So you have to go in and just disable red light camera.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Fun Maserati facts. We have a video coming with that car. Thanks everybody. That's our program today. Our next show this week is actually going to be a day late. It's going to be on Friday because I don't get home from Spain until 7:30 Thursday night. It's a weird flying schedule on this one, but yeah, I'm going to go drive the Aston Martin Valhalla. I don't actually know who else will be there. If someone cool is there. Maybe I can get us a little bonus podcast content while we're there. But it's Aston Martin's million dollar mid engined thing at Circuit Navarro. That should be a good time. So we'll be a day late the second half of this week, but we appreciate you. Thank you to our patrons for such good questions today. Everyone else, get in on the fun at patreon. Com, the Smoking Tire and I will see you next time. Bye.