Vaughn Gittin Jr - Full of Surprises

Summary

The Smoking Tire Podcast — “Vaughn Gittin Jr - Full of Surprises”

Date: April 14, 2026
Hosts: Matt Farah, Zack Klapman
Guest: Vaughn Gittin Jr.

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Episode Overview

In this lively, detail-rich episode, Matt and Zack welcome legendary drifter, builder, and entrepreneur Vaughn Gittin Jr. Fresh off a flight and straight into the studio, Vaughn discusses everything from the evolving world of high-performance Mustangs, his wide-ranging projects with Ford and his RTR brand, the challenges of scaling up a car-building business, the magic behind 1500-hp drift machines, the nuanced truth about horsepower and car balance, and the deep roots of his car passion—all sprinkled with stories, surprises, and candid advice for enthusiasts.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Allure of Weird and Unique Cars

[03:18 – 07:24]

• Matt and Vaughn start off by discussing the appeal of odd, standout vehicles like the Myers Manx and Vaughn’s rare ‘80 McLaren Mustang.
• Matt describes his Manx:

  “It’s like driving a fishing lure down the road. It’s nuts. Got a 12-layer gel coat, deep like a bass boat.” (05:02)

• Vaughn and Matt riff on wild paint colors and show-stopping builds—celebrating the fun in car individuality.

2. The Evolution & Philosophy of RTR Vehicles

[07:24 – 14:25]

• Vaughn explains the growth of his RTR brand: building Spec 3 and Spec 5 Mustangs, and heavily modified RTR Broncos.
• The Spec 5 is discussed as a road-usable, manual-equipped, “batshit crazy” widebody Mustang with 860 hp—priced far below the $400k GTD while offering accessible performance and retention of street usability.
• Vaughn on building at scale:

  “If I could find partners... I don’t need all the money. Like, I’m not here to put hundreds of millions in my bank account. I’m here to just do cool shit.” (14:59)

3. Collaborating with Ford: Factory-Sold RTRs

[24:34 – 29:22]

• Vaughn breaks down the distinction between “spec” RTRs (in-house) and the new collaboration (factory-built) ones.
• Factory-built turbocharged Mustang RTR and a forthcoming Bronco are now live on Ford’s website.

  “It’s a dream—second person ever to do it with Ford, and probably first with Bronco.” (29:09)

• These cars allow for enthusiast-accessible performance:

  “$40,000. Under $500 a month. You can leave with this car! …It’s awesome.” (25:54)

4. Technical Tricks: Anti-Lag, Drift Brakes, and the Electric Era

[26:30 – 44:15]

• Vaughn details adding anti-lag to the factory turbo Mustang for instant throttle response, especially useful when drifting—enabled and supported by Ford’s passionate engineers.
• He shares development insights on programmable electric handbrakes, making them progressive and adaptable to surface grip (41:34).
• The potential and missed opportunities for fun, affordable EVs like the Mach-E Rally are discussed, with arguments about EV culture, modding, and the importance of EVs being fun before being forced (36:35–44:15).

5. In the Drift Trenches: Horsepower, Chassis, and Tire Truths

[47:32 – 53:44]

• Vaughn talks about the current mustang FD car (1500hp, 200-treadwear tires, factory unibody), why coyote V8s are unbeatable for demos but too heavy for peak competition, and the wicked rate of development in drift cars.
• On power vs. tire grip:

  “If you were to show up…same car, one at 900hp, one at 1400, but limited to a 255 tire—is all that extra horsepower completely useless?”
  Vaughn: “Yes. Absolutely.” (55:08)

6. Car Balancing, Instrument Testing, and Real-World Fun

[55:54 – 59:20]

• Vaughn and Matt reflect on magazine tests that focus on numbers vs. tuning for confidence, balance, and how most enthusiasts live under “90%” of a car’s true limit.
• Vaughn:

  “We don’t build our cars for instrument testing. We build our cars for enthusiasts.” (56:01)

• The bread-and-butter of a great car is not peak figures but how it makes a driver—the average driver—feel daily.

7. Fan Questions & Candid Life Lessons

[60:24 – 105:51]

- Irreplaceable Charm of Drift Cars

• Drift cars must remain relatable, not pure tube-chassis monsters. “It still looks like a Mustang...and the aftermarket’s massive.” (61:48)

- Motorsport Mental Game

• Vaughn reveals hiring Ross Bentley to coach him on mindset, not just skills:

  “The number one overlooked thing in any sport is the mental.” (70:45)

- Favorite Machines

• Vaughn’s dream non-Ford is a Countach, but he actually owns a Pantera project (72:02).

- Early Inspiration

• His car roots came from his father, a hot rodder/used car dealer, and his first car: a ‘64 Cutlass on hydraulics and Daytons. “My dad is who inspired me…forced me to work on my first car.” (75:59)
• Tales of lowrider mishaps, high school street cred, and lessons learned the hard (and flammable) way.

- Building for Passion, Not Convention

• Vaughn dropped out of college, pursued what excited him, and stresses:

  “Passion is the most powerful attractant, in my opinion.” (102:15)

Notable Drift and Motorsport Insights

• On high-level drifting: Increasing power and tire grip is fun for engineers and fans, but “it’s just how fast everything’s happening now. We dialed them back a bit, but they’re locked down.” (49:20)
• On cross-sport athletes:

  “When you get in a car [after motocross/skating] and have a cage…you’re Superman. So you push even harder.” (92:29)

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Memorable Quotes

• On business and building cool cars:

  “I don’t need all the money. I’m here to just do cool shit.”
  — Vaughn Gittin Jr. (14:59)

• Perspective on spec vs. factory collaboration models:

  “We’re the second person ever on the planet to do it with Ford, with Mustang, and maybe even first with Bronco.”
  — Vaughn (29:09)

• About horsepower obsession:

  “More horsepower equals more speed? In certain scenarios, yes. Not everywhere.”
  — Matt (59:13)

• Early car roots:

  “I probably had [a Hot Wheel] in my pocket, too. They had to pry it out of my hand so I could take the rings down the aisle at my mom’s wedding.”
  — Vaughn (75:59)

• On developing an electric drift brake:

  “The first time I yanked that…felt like the rear of the car was just locked up. We had to make it progressive. It works so good.”
  — Vaughn (41:32)

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Notable Timestamps by Segment

• [03:18] – Myers Manx & weirder, unique cars: Discussing sparkly paint and offbeat fun
• [07:24] – RTR Spec 3 vs. Spec 5: Widebody Mustangs, ride, pricing, and usability
• [14:28] – Choosing to scale via partnership, not self-built factory
• [24:51] – Explaining spec vs. Ford-collaborative factory builds
• [25:54] – Turbocharged Mustang RTR: $40k, real enthusiast value
• [26:52] – Tuning anti-lag for the turbo Mustang drift car
• [36:35] – Mach-E Rally/EV fun; cultural barriers for EV acceptance
• [41:32] – Programming a progressive electric drift handbrake
• [49:20] – “Entering the Group B era” of drifting: on scary-powerful cars
• [55:08] – Horsepower vs. traction; how much HP actually matters
• [56:58] – Philosophy on car setup: Balance for real driving, not numbers
• [70:45] – Sports psychology, overcoming the mental game
• [75:59] – Vaughn’s origin story, first car, car culture roots
• [102:15] – The power of passion, following “nontraditional” paths
• [104:45] – Announcing Vaughn’s new book, Ready to Rock

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Final Takeaways

• RTR isn’t just about big power; they focus on usable, enjoyable performance and an emotional connection—whether you’re buying a $40k Mustang or a top-drawer Spec 5.
• Vaughn Gittin Jr. blends deep technical chops with business smarts, and is candid about the struggles, lessons learned, and how passion drives every new project.
• Electric cars can—and should—be fun and customizable; the next big wave for the tuning community may still be on the horizon.
• Truly mastering motorsports is as much mental as mechanical: Consistency, mindset, and adaptability beat raw speed alone.
• The episode is packed with actionable wisdom for enthusiasts, racers, and aspiring builders alike.

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For more:

• RTRVehicles.com for book preorders and car info
• Tune in to future episodes for more on the Cletus Crown Vic Race and Road America adventures.

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Summary compiled in the spirit and tone of The Smoking Tire: candid, fun, knowledgeable, and above all, driven by passion for all things automotive.

Transcript

[A]

What up everybody? Welcome to the Smoking Tire Podcast. This episode is brought to you as always by off the Record. We love off the Record and you guys do too because you keep sending me your screenshots of that off the record text message that always comes in once they beat the case. I love when you guys send me that. If you guys get pulled over for any kind of moving violation, don't plead guilty. Get off the record, they will set you up with a qualified attorney in the jurisdiction where you got that ticket and fight that ticket all the way. I love it, guys. Offtherecord.com TST they've been having my back for many years. They've been having your back for just as long. And if you use them and they're successful, do share with me your screenshots in DMS. I very much love it. Offtherecord.com TST get you 10% off all legal services booked through off the Record. And also this morning, welcome to Avance. You guys know Avance, right? It's a quarterly print magazine. It's a cool editorial website and Instagram and they do awesome in person events all over the us. I've known about Avants for a long time. My red car was even on the COVID of their magazine. And now they've got a new membership program allowing you to save money on things that you're buying anyway, like tires. Avants members get 10% off a discount tire, plus an additional 10% off all Michel Marlin and BFGoodrich. So if you spend 1500 bucks on a set of Cup 2s, you're going to save $300 just for being an Avance member. It's only $99 a year and it comes with a $70 Griots Garage gift card. So it's basically paying for itself right off the bat. Now you can use code TST for 10% off your membership. Go to avance.com TST and use code TST to sign up one more time. Avants A V A N T S DO and code TST for 10% off YOUR Avance membership. And thank you to Avance for sponsoring the show today. All right folks, on the podcast, live in studio, Mr. Vaughn Gittin Jr. What hasn't this guy done? I've known him for 20 years now and I've watched this gentleman go from formula drift to Ultra 4 to off road to car building. And now there is an actual factory built dealer sold Ford with his name on it in his RTR brand. It is extremely cool to watch. And he's here in studio to talk about it. Vaughn Gittin Jr. Is on the Smoking Tire podcast. Let's go guys. The Smoking Tire is giving away a 992.1 Turbo S. In partnership with Dream Giveaways, we are giving away a 275,000 doll thousand dollar car with some slick choice mods. The proceeds benefit charity and you don't have to buy any merch. It's a straightforward entry process. So hit the link in the show notes and get entered to win Today.

[B]

I just wanted to talk to you about your Myers Manx and I saw you took it to Fat Ice. What'd you think of bandido there?

[A]

Dude. Dude. So hang on. That we. That's. That's really the thing.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Have you haven't seen the Manx in person?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay. It's downstairs. It's literally your Bronco is parked right next to. So you're gonna see it.

[C]

You guys should flood around.

[A]

It is. It's, you know, you know, because you've driven like tons of stuff, you know, like you've driven race cars, you've driven supercars, you've driven off road. Once you've sort of like been through all the normal stuff, it gets weird, doesn't it?

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

Like what? Don't you.

[B]

It looks very weird. I was, I was just telling. Just. I just picked up a 1980 M81 McLaren Mustang.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was just talking about all like the noises and the. Just the 80s experience. And like that's why I feel like the Myers Manx is. It's just like that raw, mechanical, just.

[A]

Yeah, it's batshit.

[B]

Yeah. Just a. What am I, what am I doing with this on the road right now

[A]

you definitely feel the danger for sure. And you. But at the same time it's like for running errands for our like for my little 10 mile circle.

[B]

Yeah, bro. The best thing ever.

[A]

There's. There's nothing there. There's absolutely nothing. It's so sparkly.

[B]

Yeah, it's so.

[A]

It's the sparkliest thing you fucking ever seen. Like, it's like driving a fishing lure down the road. I mean, it's nuts.

[B]

It's got like the bass boat on it.

[A]

Oh, it's fucking great. It's a 12 layer gel coat. It's deep.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Yeah, it is a bat. Like a bass boat.

[B]

It's a.

[A]

It's a fiber.

[B]

What are you gonna do with that? Put a standard paint job on it? No, bud, no.

[A]

And you know it's parked right next to Your rtr Mystichrome, Bronco, the Rover, which I love. Mystichrome.

[C]

Bravo.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

All your cars actually come in with good paint. We had that green Spec 3. That was good. We have the. The gray one right now, the battleship gray, and then this. But the Mystichrome is fire.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, that's. Yeah.

[B]

It looks. It's interesting seeing that color off a Mustang. Like the Bronco. It's just a. It's a different type of color on the Bronco. It. That color actually rewards the different surfaces of the Mustang better. Right. The Mustang's got hips and angles, whereas the Bronco is a little more of a slab.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you have to kind of move around it a bit more to get the experience.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But we want to try it.

[A]

It's more subtle on the Bronco than it is on a Mustang. Yeah. Have you done one of on a Mustang yet?

[B]

Oh, yeah. The amount that have been getting that color.

[A]

Well, it's the right age bracket. That's shopping, isn't it? Right. It's people that were, like, you know, 12 to 18 in the 90s are now buying those, Right?

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

[A]

The Mystic Room's fire.

[B]

It is. Have you seen our urban Bamboozle? Have you seen that color?

[C]

We have. We looked it up.

[A]

Oh, looked it up on the website. Yeah. It was cool. We were talking.

[B]

It's beautiful. Do you know where that color's from?

[A]

Little Porsche color.

[B]

Porsche did urban bamboo.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So we called it bamboozle. It's like $100,000 Porsche.

[A]

I'm gonna show you a car that we have downstairs. That car is painted that color. All of the normally gray plastic is painted that color. The wheels are painted that color.

[B]

Shut up.

[A]

I swear to God.

[B]

Hey, you know, everybody has their own style.

[A]

Single most optioned 911 I've ever seen in my entire life.

[B]

Oh, it's actually. They did the wheels that color.

[A]

It's fucking 40ft from where you're sitting right now. Yes.

[B]

I can't wait to do that. It's bananas, dude.

[C]

The wheels are that color.

[B]

Huh?

[A]

The wheels are that color. Yeah, the wheels. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's insane.

[B]

All right.

[A]

And the brake calipers, too. It's fucking cool.

[B]

It's an unbelievable color. I have my spec 5. It's being done. It's our first production test is my spec 5. So I did my spec 5 in that color. It's just so good.

[A]

Let's so people have the fucking first clue we were talking about. Oh, yeah, there was an intro. So everyone knows JR is here. Thank you for coming straight from the airport.

[B]

Yes, sir.

[A]

And we've had the pleasure at Westside of managing the RTR west coast marketing fleet for like three months. Thank you very much. Thank you for your business. Appreciate that. And I've gotten to try the cars. There's like a. Literally a financial conflict, so I can't really review them, but I've gotten to have a go. You've got your Spec 3 Mustang. You've got your Spec 5 Mustang, and then you've got this Rover RVR Bronco upgrade, and that's what we've got. And that's all you're making right now. Right? Those are the three we have.

[B]

The Rover is our maxed out Bronco. We do have other Broncos. You don't need the Rover package, which is the roof rack and all the protection and stuff. You can scale it down a bit, but, yeah, Mustangs and Broncos right now.

[A]

Okay, so we've got the difference between the Spec 3 and the Spec 5 is like 50 horsepower. But more importantly, a GTD esque body kit that sort of does resemble how the GTD looks. But you keep your trunk. It's not an inboard suspension, so you do have a trunk. It's effectively. I see it as being like halfway between your Spec 3 and a GTD.

[B]

Yeah, I would. I would even say it's halfway. As an owner of the GTD as well, you know, the Spec 5, I think the only reason, even compared to a GTD is because it's a wide body, frankly. And the horsepower, you know, it has more horsepower than a gtd, but the GTD is literally a Mustang unibody. The whole front end is. I mean, you know.

[A]

Yeah, I drove it a lot. Yeah, I drove it on the front end. Completely different. Yeah, it's crazy.

[B]

I mean, it's. It's. It's very much. It's very much on a whole other level, which is why that car is over 400 grand and ours is starts at 160.

[A]

That's what I mean, it's like it's halfway between a GT and a gtd. You get some of what you would get with a gtd. You get the power.

[B]

Yeah, power's

[A]

to someone's ass. There's no difference between 815 and 838 or whatever yours is. Yeah, like, to your ass.

[B]

Like, come on. There's no difference. Right.

[A]

It's fast.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But you get a manual gearbox still optional or an auto.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And you still get to use a trunk, which if you actually want to use your fast Mustang as a car is a benefit, right?

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. No, I, I guess I, I never.

[A]

You need to see the comparison here.

[B]

You know, I don't, because when I, when we launched this car, in my mind, this was not even. Doesn't even hold a stick to the gtd, right. Like, in my mind, the GTD is a full blown race car. 335s in the rear, 315s in the front.

[A]

325s.

[B]

Are they 325s? They are 325, yeah. You know, cantilever inboard suspension. I mean, it's like literally like the RTRX or the Hoonicorn that we built, you know, suspension wise. And it's, you know, it's just a bat shit crazy car. And the Spec 5 is batshit crazy in its own way. But I, you know, we didn't strip the whole car down completely, put our own front subframe, rear subframe, all that stuff in it. So I guess I get too much in the technical. But to your point, and, and frankly, a lot of journalists, when our car came out, more power than the GTD for half the cost, you know, so,

[A]

I mean, I guess the headline.

[B]

Yeah, I guess I never, I don't think of it that way. And I'm also pretty close to Ford, so I don't want them to think that I think it that way. But no, it's a fair perspective.

[A]

And you have an extremely refined palette. I mean, when it comes to cars, you have, you know, the difference between normal, great, you know, exceptional and crazy. Right? But a lot of folks, even folks who buy GTDs, they squirt the throttle a few times, they drive it around, and they're not really, really into the nu of why this inboard suspension is better. Besides, I can tilt the mirror down and look at it move in the window. And that's, you know what I mean? I feel that way about some shit. I just, oh, it's better because some smart people said it was, but I couldn't really tell you. And so I just think, like, I'm trying to give your car credit because I drove it a good amount. The silver Spec 5 that we had here, I took it down to Rancho Santa Fe Cars and Coffee to take my nephew out for a good time. And I drove it. I think we picked it up from Larry Chen's house. I drove back from there. And it's a very tight car. It doesn't tramline with the wide body, which is really nice, more than you can say about a gtd, which is a little darty and it is fucking quick. And it actually really felt like it had less. Did you ever think, especially when they started putting that blower on all the coyote motors that all made 720 horsepower for a long. Did you ever really think. Did you feel like those were not quite making that at the. That power wasn't quite making it. The tires, it never, never quite got there.

[B]

Yeah. Especially two, because they were very inefficient.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So after you geese it once or twice.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It would be like I just lost 100 horsepower. Yeah.

[A]

So I. I thought. I mean, I didn't. I didn't sustain the spec 5 high speeds for very long, but I thought it felt like a little more of that power was finally getting to the wheels.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that was nice.

[B]

Yeah. We're pretty spot on. In fact, we sold our car at 860. I told him 860. Even though, you know, Whipple advertises at 870, I just say, you know, let's just put it out at 8, 860.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just to be safe. But, you know, with dyno, actually, I don't want to quote myself on this, but I believe it's like 770 at the tire.

[A]

Sure. It's a bunch. A lot made it to the wheels.

[B]

Yeah. And especially with the manual in fourth gear.

[A]

It rips on the highway. I mean, it is very, very strong on the highway. That car. I really enjoy it.

[B]

I appreciate that.

[A]

It had a nice ride, too.

[B]

We spent a lot of time on the suspension. And like, that car represents the pinnacle of our capabilities right now with what we have. All things considered, suspension wise, it's got coilovers. We've spent a ton of time on them. And there's tons of adjustment, both soft and stiff, in case customers want to go further with it. Obviously, the wide body, we invested in metal tooling for that wide body. Wide body. It's all composite out of metal tooling. It literally comes out of the tool ready to paint. It's. It like.

[A]

It's like a fat. Like a factory. Like. Like Ford would make.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Our previous spec fives, we. We use composite tools, and they needed a significant amount of body work and little wavy here and there. And for this and where we're at as a brand, it just wasn't an option.

[A]

So how many of those things can you build?

[B]

We're doing 50 a year. Right? Okay.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Where are they made?

[B]

So we've partnered with Fox factory Where's that? Fox factory owns multiple facilities. So they're the parent company of Fox Shocks. Oh. And they have three outfit facilities and they have some brands that they own and we've partnered with them. You know, I got to a scenario, and you'll probably appreciate this, where I create a great problem which was the opportunity to scale my business.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Created demand, created, created customers, created the want. I got to a place where it's like, okay, do I want to build a factory deal with managing a factory deal with the amount of cash flow it takes to inventory, selling thousands of cars a year, yada, yada yada. I really just came to the conclusion of like, look, if I could find partners that I can just keep my brand focused on dreaming, designing, engineering and making cool shit and have someone else that has the ability to run it at scale, I don't need all the money. Like, I'm not here to put hundreds of millions of dollars in my bank account. I'm here to just do cool shit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so they were a perfect partner. They had the capacity, they had the ability. They're the ones that enabled it for us to be able to offer painted vehicles. They got 10 paint boots. And so we partnered with them to be basically build our vehicles.

[A]

They're doing all of them.

[B]

All of them. We do about 100 at our facility a year for one local dealer, Tyndall Ford, North Carolina.

[A]

That's just because they're close and they're right there.

[B]

Yeah. Then they're right there. And. And so it just. That just works. But they do the rest distribute all across the country. Internationally. Yeah. Because it, you know, the thing I've learned being working with such big companies

[A]

is like folks taking a quick break because support is coming in hard and heavy from Mac Tools. You guys know Mac Tools? You've seen the Mac Tool shop truck around all over the place. I know what, I could draw you a Mac Tool sh truck with my eyes closed right now. But have you ever thought about being the one who actually owns that route? For anyone already into cars, working on them, being in and around shops, or spending your weekends wrenching on something, this seems like a pretty good plan. Mac Tools franchisees, they run their own mobile tool businesses selling directly to shops and technicians. It's a relationship business. Repeat customers that you service every week. You own an area and you're not left to figure it out on your own. They've got an extensive training program and support to build this gig the right way. Dude, I am so about this. You know, after building a virtual business for literally 20 years. The thing I'm most excited about in business right now is my real world business offline where I'm dealing with cars every day, dealing with customers every day. I have employees, I have a building. And that to me is what's going to create long, long lasting wealth. Not making videos, unfortunately, which rem remains the gig economy and Mac's been doing this for over a century and there's a reason it still works. So if you ever thought about doing your own thing in the automotive world, check it out. Go to mactools.org tire to learn and more and to see if there's an open route near you. That's m a c t O-O-L s.com tire to learn more. And welcome to the program Mac Tools. One of my favorites is back in the game. This week it's Butcher Box and we're talking meats. What's not to like when you're talking meats? I have a freezer full of meats right now courtesy of Butcherbox and let me tell you, it makes me feel good. 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[B]

Yeah, because it, you know, the thing I've learned being working with such big companies is like once you get to a certain size, it's, it's really easy to lose the magic when I say that like one of our secret weapons is our nimbleness and our ability to create without a lot of red tape. You know, FMVSS is our only thing in Epsilon. Yeah, right. But as you get bigger than the processes come in, because systems are built for, you know, people to be able to leave and do this and that and it just, I don't know, I feel like, I feel like it's really easy to become stale when you get too big. And so that was one of my big things. Like, I would love to stay under 100 people. We have 80 right now.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And so with the relationship with Fox for our spec vehicles, which we just spoke about, and then what we're doing with Ford for the collaboration vehicle, I feel like I have the partnerships in place that just allow us to do badass projects. Design and wait, back up, what's the

[A]

difference in spec vehicles and collaboration vehicles?

[B]

Yeah, so we have our spec vehicles that we do all the design, engineering, manufacturing of everything. Right. Those are our spec, our spec 2s, our spec threes and the spec 5.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We just announced the collaborations with Ford. So we have a turbocharged Mustang rtr.

[A]

Love that okay with Ford.

[B]

And then we have the Bronco coming, the turbocharged cars. Now it's on build in price on Ford's website.

[A]

Oh cool. I didn't realize that that was like a different category of business.

[B]

Yeah, this is absolutely a Ford product. The collaboration vehicles are Ford products.

[A]

So it's built on the line.

[B]

Yes. We basically we share design and engineering studios for both. For both of those projects. Our design studio and engineering for both of those products. So it's not just like hey Vaughn, we want to do appearance package rtr. It's like hey, we're going to co develop what an RTR should be and we're going to put it out. And what I achieved with that is, I mean the Turbo Mustang. $40,000.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Low 40s. I mean you can literally leave with this car for under 500 bucks a month. I mean, you know, credit depends.

[A]

There's a press car in LA for these yet.

[B]

We're doing the press launch. They haven't announced it yet but it's going to be in a few months.

[A]

All right, quick, you're going to love that. I can't wait. I've been bitch. I just wrote an article for Road and about just bitching about that. There's so many things to buy if you're a billionaire.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like there's so many seven figure cars and there's so few like sub, you know, 100k cars. So just we're like that, that's a dying breed. So 40, a sub $45,000 car is awesome.

[B]

Yeah. And, and it's, it, it's, it's, it's totally proper. It comes only with the, you know, EcoBoost. I've been working on some calibration stuff with Ford Racing. I've got a prototype turbo upgrade at my shop and we're gonna have a whole ecosystem for it and it's really, really cool car. We adjusted the tail of the dragon with it.

[A]

Will they allow you to do with like the chassis and stuff that.

[B]

Yeah. So stock as it comes. It's basically we took the base EcoBoost performance pack car which they don't offer anymore. So we started with that, that and then once we started doing some testing with it we were able to go in and get some Dark Horse parts. So it's got Dark Horse stay bars, Dark Horse rear subframe. It's got the upper camber plates for adjustment from the Dark Horse. I was able to get them to put. Shouldn't say able to get them. We put anti lag in it oh, that's fun. So when you're in track mode, it automatically has anti lag.

[A]

Oh, that's fun.

[B]

And the response is very noticeable. And when I was testing the car doing drifting, one thing I noticed is because they all come with the drift brake, they all come with active exhaust. When I pulled the handbrake and then would go to get back on the throttle, there was just a bit of delay. It's not a big turbo, but it's still. There was a delay. And I knew that Ford had anti lag strategy from the gt, from some of the rally stuff they do. And I was like, hey, can we. And they were like. And the engineers I work with are freaking amazing, dude. The passion that they had for this project warranty, that.

[A]

Yeah, that's awesome.

[B]

I mean, it's not like boom, boom, boom, shoot fire, but the turbo stays pulled. And now when you jump off the handbrake and pick up throttle, or you come in mid corner, you go a little deep, you're off throttle.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you, you know, you have to pick it up a little later than you want. Like, it's right there and it's. It's really cool.

[A]

That's neat.

[B]

Interior's dope. I can't wait for you to see it.

[A]

It's.

[B]

And drive it. You'll. You'll love it. Ben and I, Ben Hobson, my other drift driver, we're at Taylor Dragon at Ponies in the Smokies this last week or two weeks ago ago, and we had our Spec 2 there, 5 liter V8 NA. And I was driving that. And you know, the Spec 2 is a phenomenal car, but I bet on

[A]

the Dragon, this is better.

[B]

Way better.

[A]

Yeah, I bet it's.

[B]

I would take that car on the Dragon over my gtd.

[A]

I mean, almost all cars are too much cars. You know, anything. Front engine on the Dragon is like, that's tough. Like, I got so spoiled. I got to drive a 918 on it last year, which has light steering. Actually, like, it was great, but. But it's actually like, you know, it's Miata or something is the shit. Yeah, I can imagine a four cylinder. Remember that 230i BMW, like M Sport, like the four cylinder, two series. That'd be nice on Taylor Dragon, I think, but these would be good. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. So it's obviously a dream, I mean, to have a production car. We're the second person ever on the planet to do it with Ford, with Mustang, and maybe even first with Bronco. But the Bronco's still Same mindset. Like,

[A]

yeah, Shelby's SUVs were Dakotas. Remember? Remember?

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

Remember the Shelby did the Chrysler. Yeah, he did it. He did a Dodge Daytona.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The Omni glhs, of course. And then the Dakota pickup truck, which, remember they did a convertible.

[B]

Yeah. Oh yeah.

[A]

You get a Shelby Dakota convertible. That is like crazy. Imagine the chassis rigidity on that thing.

[B]

Yeah. But you know, it's a dream. Like when I started RTR almost 20 years ago, like that was like one day I'm gonna do that, you know, and here we are and it's out. And it's just, it's absolutely crazy to see we have a production vehicle with them. It also gives us the, you know, the gamut. Right. Like my core audience that I've been growing is, you know, still 18 to 35 now. I have plenty of 45 year olds like myself now that have been with me for so long that can afford our spec vehicles. But you know, our Spec 3 started, you know, 80, 90, 100 grand of the paint.

[A]

The one we drove was paint sample. Yeah, it was 100 something.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And, but now, now for, you know, to be able to offer something enthusiast market like this and the Bronco is going to be, you know, entry level, enthusiast focused. It's just a dream to be able to like get something like this out that people can afford.

[A]

And once Ford's, you know, okay, you now it's in production right now. What kind of like maintenance do you have to do on that collaboration side of the brand?

[B]

So we, you know, been working on this since 2023. There was a couple delays due to some supplier stuff and right now, so actually tomorrow I'm going to two local dealers here. We're choosing like 20 or 30 dealers that I'm personally going to sharing the brand with them and getting them on board because they're a key part. Right. The vehicles will sell, they need to be at the lots. So we're doing that. And then really beyond that, like there's no obligation, you know, just to leverage it with content and, and just keep it going. But like there's no like in the contract. There's not a ton of things that I have to keep doing, but it's like I want to do things with.

[A]

Well, I didn't mean more like things you have to keep doing, like, you know, appearances. I meant more like, guys, support for this show is coming in from true work. Working outside in the springtime means you're dealing with chilly mornings, hot afternoons, dunes and everything in between. Not to mention the mud, rain and whatever else the weather decides to throw at you. You need workwear that can keep up with the changing conditions. And Truewerk has you covered. You see, most workwear is made from cotton blends which can restrict your movement and get soaked after a few raindrops. They get heavy, they get clunky, you get cold. Truewerk uses advanced performance fabrics to build products designed specifically for work on the job site. Like the T2 work pant, which keeps you comfortable over a wide range of conditions. You know who likes that pant a lot? Zach Klapmann. He doesn't like wear it like on the job site, but he wears it to go hiking. And he has a super outdoor lifestyle. So when we're working, when we're filming and he's like crawling all over, crawling in and out of cars and stuff like that, that's what Zach likes. The T2 work pant. They've got a four way stretch for bending, kneeling and climbing. It's got a water resistant finish that sheds ra9 pockets to keep tools where you need them. They've been tested and validated for over 10 years by trade pros working in real job site conditions and will have over 15,000 five star reviews. So it's worth experiencing the difference for yourself. You know, like I said, Zach is using these pants when we shoot all the time. Like I said, Clapman absolutely loves these things. They are flexible, comfortable and have the good padding when you need to kneel. It's all good. And when we we hold ourselves to a bit higher standard. I like high quality stuff that lasts a long time. We don't go cheap on our gear. You buy it once, you buy it for life. I love it. And these pants with the four way stretch, the water resistance and nine pockets, oh, they're perfect. The work doesn't stop just because the weather changes. So upgrade to that T2 work pant and stay comfortable no matter what the day brings. Get 15 your first [e-mail] with Code Tire. That's T R U E W E R K.com Code Tire it's true work built like it matters because it does. Guys taking a break from the action because support is coming in fast. Like Jim Farley, the CEO of Ford who's now got a podcast and you're always asking me what I'm listening to when not recording this show. And right now it's this, the new season of Drive with Jim Farley in and it the Ford CEO talks to some of his favorite people about what they're driving and what drives them to succeed. Like Formula one driver Daniel Ricciardo. Listen, there's a well worn trope about racing drivers not being interesting to listen to, but if there is one that is interesting to listen to, it is Daniel Ricardo. I think this guy's takes on stuff and life are great. And look, Jim is a racing driver also. I personally raced against him like two months ago. And for me, a CEO that drives race cars on the weekends is about the pinnacle of CEO dom when it comes to car companies. So the two of them together obviously have a lot of things to discuss on Drive with Jim Farley, which you can get on your podcast app. Very easy to find. Drive with Jim Farley. Check it out. Well, I didn't mean more like things you have to keep doing, like appearances. I meant more like now you've got the car out and they go, okay, this is great. Hopefully it sells. I assume they wait a little bit to make sure it sells, but after that it's like we're updating the dark horse in two years with these parts. Do you want to start testing these parts for your car as well? Is it going to be like that kind of thing where they go, okay, we're looking to update this car in three years. So what do you think we could update date if we had this much more budget? Does that kind of stuff happen?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, well, I've been working with Ford on the back end of vehicles for a very long time now. We have a Mustang, we have a Bronco. I can't speak about future products.

[C]

Can you speak about what the planes are? Three years.

[B]

But you know, it is my personal dream that this. And we're not there and I'm not sneaking anything in, but it's my personal dream to like have the ability to create like an entry level, enthusiast focused ecosystem. You know, that, that is just building fun, badass looking vehicles that people, you know, people can actually afford. And we'll still have our, our spec series of vehicles and our, our Rover and the, the, the vehicles for people that want something more. But I, I just bring it back a little bit.

[A]

Maki Rally Hydro Handbrake.

[B]

That car is great.

[A]

Machi Rally rips.

[B]

Dude, that car is great. It is. So the Machi is one of those

[A]

underrated, probably the most underrated car on sale right now.

[B]

So underrated.

[A]

You get. You put that on a gravel rally stage with me, I'll take it over a 911dakar.

[B]

You know what I think happened? I think I Think we had to a point where the, where the perspective was like the government's forcing us to do something. Something. So. So like you, you either got labeled. What people that drive electric cars get labeled. Right. And like nobody wants to be that right now. And then it was like the government's making you do this and nobody in America wants to listen to government. So it was just like hard. No, I'm out. And literally that attitude and that mindset like totally destroyed the electric vehicle industry. For to, to an extent, the combination.

[A]

Yeah. The combination of unrealistic goals. This, this 2030, 100% EV mandate, which was ridiculous.

[B]

Well, that's here with your governor, California. The rest here.

[A]

No, it was here. But like where. No, but like where California goes. Like the car industry follows for the. Historically.

[B]

Historically speaking, a lot of people here.

[A]

Yeah. I mean it's, it's the biggest car buying state, blah, blah, blah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Except for the gas.

[B]

We.

[A]

The rest of the world was like, you're 91.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and also so they're very expensive and they couldn't really get the infrastructure done to make them as. People really perceive them as being less useful than their regular cars. For most people. Not most. For many people they are not. For others, they are. And so Americans like to buy a car that can do everything that they need to do now and then a whole bunch of shit they might need to do at some point.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Realistic or unrealistic.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

So you make a good point. Because when they first came out, there was such a negative stereotype about them because a lot of the cars were very boring. And then EVs had to dig themselves

[A]

out of that hole.

[C]

So by the time you get to Machi rally and you have to convince a lot of the public who's anti ev, like this is a really fun rally car, period. It just happens that it has electric power. They're like, I'm not driving any.

[B]

They weren't even having it. Right. Yeah. I mean I did the media, I did the media drive of that car when we Ford out to.

[A]

Wasn't it Dirt Fish?

[B]

Yeah, Dirt Fish. And I mean we were giving rips. I had so much fun. We had a WRC driver there. His name's slipping me right now. But we had an absolute blast in that thing. And then I have a Mach E, we made a RTR package. It's a small appearance package for it. And I mean, in fact, that's why I drove to the airport to come here.

[A]

They're fucking awesome.

[B]

20,000 miles on it. And you know what? I've done maintenance on that car.

[A]

All couple software updates, wiper fluid, literally

[B]

the 5,000 mile thing. You know, I appreciate it for what it is, you know? You know, am I getting rid of my V8s? And I'm very grateful to be someone that has, you know, in a situation, have multiple vehicles, but man, I just feel like if you're two car family, like there's no reason not to have one go over 200 miles a day.

[A]

Yeah, no, it is their appliances, but like you can do really cool shit with electric motors. And like in the case of that car, the programming of those motors with the thing that you're doing is so good that it turns you into an absolute rock star on the dirt.

[B]

100%.

[A]

Which is like what you want from an all wheel drive system. Like so many all wheel drive systems. Like, look, I love Subaru, but like a Subaru, this car, a Subaru pushes when this car is rotating, like all the time.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Like it's just.

[B]

It knows exactly. It's like front end needs to be pointed that way. Yeah, it is.

[A]

It just does the thing. It's fucking so good. It's so good. So yeah, should make one of those. But there should be one of just a handle.

[B]

It just needs to be electric. Yeah. I mean the electric drift brake that we developed in the Mustang is incredible.

[A]

Yeah, no, it doesn't need to be hydraulic. It just needs to be handle.

[B]

Yeah, it just needs.

[A]

Because right now it's a button.

[B]

Well, you can't even use it though, right? Yeah, you can't use it while it's going.

[A]

Yeah, no, you can't be sliding.

[B]

Yeah, you can't. I mean, you know, and speaking of that, when we just a little sidebar. You know, we did develop the handbrake and it's progressing massive. When I first thought I'm like, oh, it's electric handbrake, I just, just make it on a switch. I just wanted to lock or not. We had to. When we, we tried it like that at first so hard and just every time it just, it felt like the whole rear of the car was just locked up, dude. Yeah. So we made it progressive. Dude, the first time he yanks that feels like the entire rear of the car, dude. I was like, it's not, this is not what we're doing thought in my mind because I've always been thinking about the drift car because I'm like, you know, every now and then like when I had a straight axle Mustang, we get pad knocked back And I'm like, man, if I just had an electric one, I could just pull it into lock immediately. That's all I need. But it's freaking out of control.

[C]

You didn't realize what immediate meant, I guess.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. I'm like, oh, maybe that delay is like built into my timing, I don't know. But we made it progressive and it works so good. And also the progressiveness is great for the mew. Right. If you're on a hard surface, soft, slick surface, like, you know, you just pulled a little bit or more so. Yeah.

[A]

Super cool.

[B]

Trials and tribulations and developing handbrakes, you know.

[A]

No, that. I mean that is a killer innovation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Genuine being, you know, using electrification for that is. Is another great one.

[C]

And for Ford to say yes to it is. Is also shocking. I'm really surprised and happy about that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

1400 we built, right?

[A]

Yeah, I do.

[B]

Amazing.

[A]

Yeah. Those guys, I mean, they know how to have a pretty good time. Yeah, they usually. Jim and the boys, they're usually down to. To play a of lot little bit.

[B]

And even more now that we're committed to just.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Creating emotional, exciting, fun vehicles.

[A]

That's so cool. Oh, there's the. The RTR Mach E. The wheels look great. It's a really nice looking wheel.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a good looking car. And again, this didn't take off. But you know, like I, I've been very open. You know, a lot of people hide from, you know, electric and. And I think it has a place.

[A]

You know, the EV modding thing, I don't. Is not really happening much, you know, other than like a set of wheels or something. People just really aren. And when you see a modded Tesla, dude, you're like, come on, like a

[C]

cheap splitter in the back.

[A]

Just looks like such loser.

[B]

Well, just because no one's designed the

[A]

proper stuff, you know, unplugged makes some decent go fast. They make some solid go fast. Bitch shout out to them. They're. They're fighting the good fight.

[B]

Yeah. I have seen their stuff is not

[A]

gaudy, but just like, you know, 95% of the time if you see a modded EV, you're like, Bro, that's just, that's terrible.

[B]

What are you doing, bud?

[A]

You're just adding so much drag on whatever you're doing. Like, is the range worth it? There's one guy who rolls around Malibu that has some kind of speaker system that like blasts out like engine like a cam.

[B]

Borla. Yeah, Borla just put sound systems Out. And they actually. They're actually decent, I don't think. I've always been a proponent for electric vehicles. Have sound but not copying something else.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It should be like Jetsons or fun. And I don't know if you know, but the Mach E 1400, we have a military weapon. What is the name of Slipping me again?

[A]

It's like the sound cannon they use.

[B]

It's literally. What is it called? We have one on the front. In the back, it projects 1.6 miles. Whoa. And I worked with T. Pain to develop the soundtrack for the Mach E 1400. It sounds insane when it blows by you. When that's on. Whoa.

[C]

That's the military. Like a riot soundstage.

[B]

It's exactly what it is.

[A]

What is that crazy? Is it T. Pain's voice on it, or has he produced it?

[B]

No. I'll let you listen to it after I have it.

[A]

I really need to get T. Pain on this show. I've heard nothing but amazing things about him, and I think he's an amazing musician. I really would like. And he's apparently quite a good driver.

[B]

He is. Yeah. We built him. We built him two RTRs now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So we built him one. A street car that we put angle kit and made driftable. And then he's like, I want the full thing. So we built him, literally, our FD competition spec car. But we put a coyote with supercharger in it for him just so we had to deal with the unreliability of a race. Sure. Or the cost of running. Race motor, I should say.

[A]

Isn't that kind of like your, like, demo car would be like. If you have, like, an exhibition car,

[B]

it would be kind of like. We don't use the. We don't have the good suspension on all the demo cars.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

The quick change, the. All of our billet arms.

[A]

But then you put all that on everything.

[B]

They just started living. Literally is. But he wanted to be a convertible, so it was our first convertible.

[A]

Get the fuck out of here. That rules. I mean, because he's Atlanta, right? In the Atlanta area.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

See, he's in Georgia. Drifting in Georgia is hot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I can imagine. If you're not competing and you're just like. And I know he competes amateur level, but if you're just fucking around and having fun, a convertible drift car is nice.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wouldn't you. Would you prefer one if you were just fucking around with friends runs?

[B]

No. Because in the rain, it's not cool rain. Yeah.

[A]

So I think about rain seasonal.

[C]

This thing looks right.

[A]

You Run like. Do you run like an all season drift tire in the rain?

[B]

No.

[A]

You just.

[B]

No, you.

[A]

We just like whatever. Right.

[B]

We just run our tires and. Yeah, it's fine.

[A]

It's pretty cool, honestly. Convertible.

[B]

Sick about it. Yeah, we built these little humps.

[A]

Yeah. Spacer humps are good. Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

I really like the rally style rear wheel.

[A]

And it's fun colors. I really like the color you painted the tubing of the cage. Yeah, that's a fun color.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so that's basically the same motor in you in the spec 5.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

The whistle on a.

[B]

Exactly. Yeah, it's exactly it.

[C]

Yeah. Look at these wheels.

[A]

So the. Dude. I mean, the kayak. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like everybody. I mean, it seems like you can put a fucking whipple on one of these things on a stock motor and not have issues.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, they're phenomenal. Like the Spec 5, you probably want to go. There's probably 30, 40 horsepower to be gained, but you don't want to go much more. Just with the factory. Factory rods and bore, but still so much power. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, it's on a stock bottom end.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Awesome.

[B]

You know, and like I said, it's. We've dynoed it. And you know, Cletus, he. He did a back to back with the stage one and stage two whipples and it was like 770, I want to say, at the tire. This car is about 8,50ish at the tire. And this is the illuminator coyote, which has different. Different rods and stuff. But these. The. The coyote is an unbelievable motor.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, it is. It's unbelievable. It's. You know, the. The reason why right now we're not using it in competition and we use the ry45 still is when we're running 13 to 1500 horsepower in the fd cars.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so with the coyote, we certainly could do that. But the weight penalty with the. With the blower and all the cooling and the additional exchangers, it's. It's, you know, it's 3, 300 pounds, 400 pounds. Ish. So it's just that.

[A]

That's tough a lot in a race.

[B]

That's tough. I mean, we're trying to pull 5, 10, 15 pounds. You know, year over year, we're trying to pull weight out of the cars. It's just. It's tough for us to do that right now.

[A]

That makes sense.

[B]

But for the demo cars and the streetcars, it's unbelievable. Unbelievable motor.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We're just in formula D, just asking for some craziness.

[A]

Is that naturally aspirated?

[B]

How much power? No, naturally aspirated when nitrous. So it's about 950. And then we shoot about 300 to 500 nitrous, depending upon what we're. What. What track we're at and what we're trying to do.

[A]

Man, that's hard. Yeah, yeah, it's hard.

[B]

It's fun, though. Unbelievable.

[A]

Of course. Is it like. Is. Is drifting this car at 1300 horsepower that much more fun than drifting a car from eight or nine years ago?

[B]

That. It's way more fun eight or nine years ago. Because this is scary now.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah, it's.

[A]

Are we entering the group B era of formula Drift?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, it's been that for

[C]

the fear from the speed grip.

[B]

So, you know, there's. There's a. It to the. To like the driver. 1500 horsepower, 800 horsepower. It all depends about the amount of grip you put in the car.

[A]

Right.

[B]

800 is going to handle less grip. 15 is going to. Going to be berserk speed because the amount of grip you can put in the car, I mean, we're pulling well over a G in these cars these days. Going sideways.

[A]

That's serious.

[B]

Yeah. And so to answer your question, it's. It's just the. It's how fast everything's happening. Like, these cars, they're not like, floaty and, like, easy. Like, it's. You're. You're doing something. You know, we've recently dialed them back a little bit to be able to be better adjusted. But. But the cars are just. When you're on throttle, they're locked down and they're driving. And when you're off throttle, it wants

[A]

to come back because you're essentially running slicks as well, right? Yeah.

[B]

I mean, they're 200 tread wear, I think, is what our tires are in the rear.

[A]

Sure. 200 treadwear. Yes, of course they're 200, but they're, like, really aired down.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Aren't they like, fucking £12 or something?

[B]

Yeah, we run, like single digits sometimes.

[C]

Are they just changing? Do they change direction fast, faster, more quickly now because of all the grip, you know, and you have all this kinetic energy from the speed.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

So is that everything's happening faster, everything's

[B]

more responsive, the acceleration's faster, everything. In fact, I was just at drift Appalachia.

[C]

Love that event. Oh, my God. It was the coolest thing.

[B]

We went there just a couple weeks ago, and I was running My. Usually I run the factory off the shelf nitto nt 555 G2s in the demo car.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But my wheels didn't get coated in time for my new livery, so I took the FD wheels and put them on my demo car. And I had the tires that was run in FD and my freaking handbrake that has no problem locking up because on my demo car, I just have the factory caliper in the rear.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Has no. Ever never been a problem. And I'm on. Now I'm on a mountain, and my handbrake's not locking my tire.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

So I'm going switch that because. Because it's that much wider, that much grippier compared to the. The, you know, the regular street tire. So. Yeah, it's. It's crazy how sport has progressed. It's really cool. It's. I mean, dude, it's selling out. It's. It's incredible what is going on with drifting right now on a global scale.

[A]

So you think those changes that make it scarier for you have made it better for the fans? Or do you think it's just. It's just the momentum of the sport or.

[B]

Or I think that question is very similar to, like, the mindset of, like, why was group B rally cooler?

[A]

Right?

[B]

You got to see the, like, you know, the things that, like, we enjoy, you know, like, we love competing at a top level because it's like, who can bring the better mousetrap. I like racing Unlimited Ultra 4 because you have a very minimal rule book, and we can do whatever we want with the race trucks. I like doing Formula Drift because it's pretty much unlimited except for suspension mounting points. So it's like the engineering and the prowess. I mean, keeping a 1500 horsepower motor together at 100% load. You know what I mean? Like, it's. It's. The team enjoys that part of it. I think the fans get benefit. Do I think that the fans would. It would be that much different for them if we dropped 400 horsepower? No, but it'll be different for us.

[C]

The engineers like to build a spaceship. You know, you give them the box, and they will build the thing that just fits that box perfectly.

[A]

It may get back. You know, they may be forced to dial it back at some point. Hopefully not because somebody gets hurt, hopefully for another reason. But.

[C]

But sometimes it's like some racers, it's cost and, you know, stuff like smaller

[B]

teams can't afford it and they have pro spec. So what you're talking about, they have Pro spec. And the way they limit it is by the tire. So it's a 255 or 265 max tire. So if you show up with 1500 horsepower, you ain't going nowhere anyway. And that's the cost. That's the entry level of the series. But pro, I love that it's, you know, group B now. I've been in the game for 20 years. I run one of the top teams, so I might be a little bit g jaded. But the thing is, man, it's like, this is also how I find you keep really good people. Right. Because if you can, you know, it's really easy to smart people to figure the thing out and just keep doing it, and then they get bored. But if you can keep them challenged to innovate and progress. We've won the last. Not bragging. We've won the last four championships out of five years in Formula D. That's a crazy stat.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

But the only reason that we're able to do that is because we're not sitting on the couch in the off season. We keep innovating, and so the innovation has to stop. Then you lose the good people.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Then it just becomes, you know, kind of rinse and repeat, and nobody wants to do that.

[A]

Yeah. Not in racing anymore.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Yeah. But I. I want to go back to just a little nugget that I got before, because with the prospect being limited to a certain tire, you said you show up with 800 horsepower, and you show up with 1500 horsepower. It doesn't get you anywhere. But that's an interesting thing for, like, the audience to think about, because a lot of people think about horsepower, but they don't necessarily think about how much horsepower they can put down. Like, Zach and I just drove recently the. The new M2 BMW, the CS, which is like 530 horsepower. Some. 530. 527. 5.

[C]

Sorry.

[A]

The M2CS. Oh, yeah.

[B]

523.

[A]

Well, the regular M2 is, like, less than that, but already spins the tires, like, through, like, four gear. And so this extra horsepower is present but is fully constrained by electronics. Effectively, it has almost the same problem if you turn everything off. So it's just an interesting thing to think about that at this level, at this scale. So if you were to show up at a drift event and you have two cars and they both have identical, say, the same car, your fucking Mustangs. One is 900, one is 1400. But they're limited to the 255 tire is that is. It is all of that extra horsepower completely useless in that scenario.

[B]

Yes. Yep.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, and assuming, like, let's just say you're running the same tire pressure, like, maybe the 1500 horsepower could run seven pounds, where the 700 horsepower, 800 horsepower would have to run 15 pounds.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You could get a little bit more drive out of it. But if it was all things equal, I had to run the same pressure, same, same shock, same everything. Absolutely.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Think about that when adding horsepower to your car. You know, if you've got a regular car, call it a Mustang, call it a whatever, and you put a whole bunch of horsepower in your car, you know, think about your. Your traction.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And.

[B]

But it also. It also, though, that is funny because we were chatting about. We just. We. We had an article come out today, actually, with car and driver. They instrument tested one of our spec threes.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Cool.

[B]

And, you know, do well, instrument testing. No.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

But you guys have driven it.

[A]

I thought it was fun.

[B]

Yeah, they're great. But we don't. We don't build our cars for instrument testing. We build our cars as an enthusiast vehicle.

[A]

Yeah. Rear wheel drive, manual transmission car is not going to have a good 0 to 60. 26.

[B]

Exactly. And so, you know, we. So, you know, we. We give this preface. If I want an instrument car, I would just put a different set of tires on it and send it to you. We know the suspension is great. It can handle it. It's built. It's built for stickier tires.

[A]

You'd probably build an automatic.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

If you. I mean, if you really, you know.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

It would do better.

[B]

Right. But the point I'm making is, like, what. What are you using the car for? Right. So it's not a blanket statement of, like, don't add more horsepower. If you want to leave a dig or leave a light and get the grip, less horsepower might be your friend. If you want to do a roll from 60 to 140 to 100, the horsepower, it will likely work because you're not from a dig. And most tires will handle that. As long as you're not an idiot with the throttle.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

So for me, it's like when we're building a car. And this was kind of the interesting thing about my perspective of the car and driver. The review was only about the data. There was no discussion of the driving. And we consciously develop our vehicles to be very progressive. Right. It's my perspective that most enthusiasts live under 90%.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Right. You're going into canyons.

[A]

You run 70, that's a 60 to 70% cruising.

[B]

Right. So I like to build a car that is very progressive and confidence inspiring for everyone. Everybody. If you want a race car, we had this discussion today. You, you'll get our car and you'll know exactly what tires you want to put on to go to the track. I'm giving you a vehicle that you can drive in the rain. You can drive back and forth to work.

[A]

I did drive the Spec 5 in the rain. You can do.

[B]

You can do donuts and the tires aren't coming apart. You can go drifting and you can do it many times before you need a new set of tires.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If I give you an instant instrument impressing car, you go do a couple donuts, they're coming apart. You go to one track day or do any drifting, they're to the chords. So you know, it's. I just go to that. It's like the thing that people should take away when they're building a car is like be very conscious of what you want.

[A]

Well, yeah.

[B]

What you're trying to achieve, how you're going to drive it. Because that inlies the answer what to do.

[A]

A lot of people will quote numbers to me, but you. Between two cars that we've driven. It could be the M2 and whatever else. But what it really comes down to is like if you and your buddy are ripping up a canyon and he's in one of these and you're in the other. These cars are the same speed. They're effectively the same speed if you took them to a track day. The better driver will put down the better lap time here, not necessarily the car. And even if like this one's better off the line. Let's get all wheel drive and paddle shifters and blah blah. This is a rear wheel drive stick. Like those two cars could still run the same lap time here. They're still the same pace up an empty road. Like the numbers don't really apply to those situations so much anyway. So. Yeah, who cares? Yeah.

[B]

But it is the old it's always been discussion. Is more horsepower equal more speed in certain scenarios? 100% of the time, yes. Not everywhere.

[A]

Not everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. And not if your car comes with more horsepower than tire from the factory. Factory.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, that's.

[B]

But there sure is something really damn cool being like, hey bud, I got 800 horsepower under that hood right there. Yeah.

[C]

We do a third gear roll.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[C]

Or just saying in.

[A]

In Texas highway. Highway roll racing in Texas and Florida. Absolutely.

[B]

I Don't condone any street racing at all.

[A]

Why would you?

[C]

You can do roll racing on a Runway.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, never mind. Allegedly. Let's go.

[B]

The.

[A]

To the people. It's that time. The people always have something to say. The patrons over at. Patrons [e-mail] thespoken tire podcast. It's where you get our show live. It's where you get our show early. It's where you get extra show. It's where you get shows without ads. And it's where you get to ask your questions for the show again. That's patreon.com thesmokentyrepodcast we love these folks. Very kind of them to join us. And. And some of their usernames are very creative.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Such as Carbon monocoque and ball Torture. How far are we from seeing the top pro level drift series going to? All purpose built full tube chassis drift cars. Your car's mostly that already, isn't it?

[B]

No, it's a full unibody.

[A]

Is it?

[B]

Yeah, it's unibody factory subframes. We're only allowed to move the suspension mounting.2 inches on the subframe.

[A]

And your car was much more race car car than that.

[B]

No.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

I mean, when you. When you look at it, we cut it. We have a tube front so when we crash, we can replace it quickly. But from basically shock tower to shock tower is a full unibody. You can't touch anything.

[A]

Firewalls drifting. Be better if you could build tube chassis drift cars.

[B]

Yeah. So I, I actually conceptualized something like this a while ago using Trans Am chassis. I had it fully like baked out. Like a full, full container would be a full team and we would travel the world and do this. And he, you know, his point is. Is one of the reasons why I don't know that it would work. So from a competitive standpoint, it would be freaking epic because all the cars would be the same. And the door to door and the tandem and like the. In the. Just the proximity and it would be really cool. But to his point, there's something very exciting about the relatability of drifting right now. Even though we have 1500 horsepower, even though. Even though these are hundreds of thousands of dollar race cars at this point.

[A]

Still looks like a Mustang.

[B]

Still looks like a Mustang. Still very relatable still. And the aftermarket that's generated off of these vehicles is massive. So you technically can. I mean, we don't sell all of our parts, but you technically go buy A Mustang. And there is people that sell an angle kit and this and that, and you can buy a Mustang and do all of it. So that, I think that is a big part of the core culture, you know, that's a part of the culture that NASCAR misses.

[A]

You have to be able to like sort of imitate it at home.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I think it fed NASCAR for a long time because the cars looked like the cars. And now it's like, oh, the Chevy's passing the Ford. You're like, right. But all the bodies look the same. It's kind of like who pays?

[B]

Literally the same car. These shops don't even build their own chassis.

[C]

They just put a different sticker on it.

[B]

Yeah, pretty much literally. Or supply. There's one supplier for the chassis now. So from a, from a, from a fan perspective, like just pure sport, it would be exciting. But from a big picture cultural, you know, all things considered automotive culture, that's, I think one of the exciting things to, to his absolute point. So I don't think that's ever going to happen in fd, but I do think that it would be a really cool like special series like IROC that travels, you know, and like, because right now we get asked to go to a lot of places, but the FD season is the priority. We only have one.

[A]

Yeah, but if there was like a whole other organization that had the cars,

[B]

you put a different body them. It's like monster trucks. You smash in a car, don't matter, you just replace it the next day.

[A]

Call Sam.

[B]

Show must go on. You go on.

[C]

I think it'd be really, really cool.

[A]

It would be, you know, it would be super cool actually.

[B]

Then you only need. You could literally use 500 horsepower crate coyotes because every car is the same. You just balance the grip to the tire.

[C]

Do you think sponsors would be resistant to letting their drivers hop over to that also? Because it might like if the drivers are now in a bad.

[A]

The Saudis are going to do it and then it's going to become problematic.

[C]

No, no, because right now, you know, each of the teams, Ford, Toyota, Chevy, BMW, whatever, like they can go, we build this car for our driver and they try to tailor the car for that driver. But once everyone goes to a spec series, they kind of lose that kind of the marketing control over it.

[B]

I don't know that you would have OEMs involved, but I've also been surprised. I mean, you know the company that makes those lams, they had their name on the side of a no name electric. The FC Or FX ones. Whatever. Andreas Hag. What are those called? The. The rally cars?

[A]

The Nitro.

[B]

Nitro.

[A]

Nitro Rally cross.

[B]

Yeah. I mean there was a.

[C]

That's true.

[B]

So some, you know, it depends on who's. What the manufacturer is doing. I, I don't believe that. I don't believe outside of NASCAR that Ford would do that unless there was a way that there was some learning. Right. Like here's a good example. My ultra 4 race truck, the unlimited class.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Is a tube chassis truck with a, with a Bronco Raptor body on it.

[A]

Sure. But which is freaking cool by the way.

[B]

We run FOX live valve in that truck which is on all the Raptors. We're always gaining and progressing that system. We also have independent front suspension, very similar link rear suspension at how the Bronco is. So the suspension job and suspension is a big learning.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and off road that's the most important stuff. So we get some good learning from that perspective.

[A]

That truck by the way, was El Banido. Pretty much one of like only two or three things at ice race that actually looked fast.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, like ice is a great way to make things that like should be fast. Look, look really slow.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

This was actually fast.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It was like this and that dude's like twin turbo huracan on huge spikes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That he was mobbing. And like one other thing that were fast and everything else was really slow. But it looked amazing.

[B]

Yeah. So this is El bandido. This isn't even our race truck, but this is the front and back of our race truck. That cab you're looking at is an actual Bronco cab. When Bronco launched, there was a cyber orange two door that everybody saw.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That truck was going to the crusher.

[A]

Yeah. It was like dollar car.

[B]

We got Ford to let us get. Get that. And then we put our Ultra 4 front end and back end on it and a Raptor R motor in it. That thing is unreal.

[A]

We'll give you this if you promise to never drive it on the street ever again. Like it must be unidentifiable as the thing it came and as. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

We're just using the cab.

[A]

Yeah. Dude. I just. We talking about NASCAR being on production cars for a minute. Remember? I mean we were both very young. All of three of us were young. But like remember when there were like homologation NASCAR specials? Like when the Monte Carlo had like, had to have like the fucking.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Like the idea.

[B]

I wish they would go back to

[A]

the specials for, for NASCAR and Like that probably, like, I mean, I don't know about the aerodeck, but that probably did drive some sales. Whereas, like, I wonder how many sales NASCAR really drives today because the cars are just not.

[B]

Well, it's not cultural. I don't believe it. I don't believe that it supports the culture. But I do think it. I. I do think at some level it still gives brand preference, but I don't think culturally people are like, oh, I'm getting a Mustang. I'm going to watch Joey Logano race nascar.

[A]

Drift probably does a lot more than. Than NASCAR in terms of seeing, you know, the car that, that you. Because is. Aren't there a couple people in FD, at least one who are driving like a 240? Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Like, yeah, there's there question. I mean, I mean, when I started with Mustang, in fact, I don't know if you know, we're doing a book and I'm. This is fresh on my mind.

[A]

Oh, really? Oh, cool.

[B]

Because I literally, on the way here, I edited, edited the entire, like, went through the whole book, like, almost final edit. And when I started, the parking lots had no Mustangs. Yeah, people thought I was freaking crazy for training mis13 to get to compete in a Mustang. And now you go out in the parking lot and it's full. You know, I'm gonna say full, but there's a lot.

[A]

No, there's a lot. There are a lot more. Like back when in 08, and it was not very common to be at a drift event in a Mustang, there wasn't a big aftermarket for it. There wasn't really demand for it at the time. I mean, it was still kind of a Japanese sport. Getting it, getting it on a white windowless Vaughn. Very good. Very good. What's a challenge you struggle, struggled with when growing as a driver? And what helped you overcome it? P.S. saw you at the wall in New Jersey when I was a kid.

[B]

Oh, cool. Yeah, for all three of us, you know. Any of you guys want to go first?

[A]

I don't. What. I mean, I don't fucking challenge. The challenge is I'm not very fast still. That's my challenge. My challenges. For someone who drives. For someone who drives this much, I should be slow. I should be fast.

[C]

Slow in, fast out.

[B]

Matt, you got anything here? I mean, you're going to school.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Tomorrow, next week. What do you got?

[C]

Before I went to last racing school school, like, braking. My braking was inverted. My braking curve was terrible. It was literally like, you know, increasing as I went through the corner. Because I was used to doing camera car shit where you have to get close to a car, you might have to add a little break. And that was just trained in. So I had to learn to invert my braking graph.

[B]

Yeah, interesting, because I think I. I think this question is. Is twofold because one of them, for me, I think I just give the one answer. For me, as I was progressing in top level motorsport, I realized that I would do really well in practice, but then, like when there was qualifying or judging or the timer was on, I would shit the bed. And so I started and it happened on more than one occasion. Like, okay, here's the problem, right? My brain. And so I started. I read a book called Speed Secrets by Ross Bentley, which I highly suggest, as usual, do. I read the book and I just called Ross. I'm like, hey bud, what's it take for you to come out? So I brought Ross out at Formula D In 2008, I brought Ross Bentley out to FD. Had no idea what Formula D. Have

[A]

you ever seen drifting?

[B]

No idea what drifting was.

[A]

I didn't care.

[B]

I didn't tell him to tell me how to drift. I needed to tell me how to fix my brain so I could perform. And so that's when I went down the route of sports psychology and training the brain and studying the brain and. And so that is something that if anyone is serious about being a driver, it's the number one overlooked thing in any sport is the mental. We're all like, oh, I want the best car, the best tire. Like, no, you can do a lot just by being consistent and just by showing up with the proper mindset. So that for me, I think probably not what he was expecting the answer, but I would definitely train the brain as, you know, as important as anything.

[C]

Your episode on Ross's podcast is a very good listen, by the way, when you were on there.

[B]

Thank you.

[C]

For people who want to learn more

[A]

about the brain, Dre from Houston, what would you have as a hypothetical Mustang future variant Wish list. You're gonna have to figure out how to answer this without. I'll give you one. I wanted one. I wanted a rear drive Mach E that has the rally rally suspension and non like less aggressive tires. And I just want. And the GT rally seats and a more powerful motor. I wanted to call it an lx.

[B]

Don't they have rear wheel drive?

[A]

They do rear wheel drive, long range. Yeah, I had it. But you can't get that with the really good suspension.

[B]

That's right. That was your first one. You did all the reviews on rear

[A]

wheel drive, long range, good system doesn't have.

[B]

No. Okay.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

All right, so let's see. Hypothetical Mustang, future variant. Wish list. I. I really can't answer this question right now because I'm already living in the future with Mustang.

[A]

You can have an exemption.

[B]

So just stay tuned because they're all coming instead.

[A]

Track days are the best days. Favorite non Ford vehicle.

[C]

Are you allowed to answer this question?

[B]

Favorite non Ford vehicle. You know, I. I have to go. This is really quintessential and eye rolly. But it's gonna have to be the Countach. Like the five year old in me is gonna have to say the Countach.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

I don't know if I told you this, but I got. I bought a Pantera. I have a Pantera process I was gonna do. I was gonna do a Countach. I gotta tell you though, after I drove it, after I drove one perspective of the price tag.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was so disappointed.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I was sad. I understand about driving it. And, and so I felt that the Pantera would give me like that childhood like dream look. But I could actually make it be a driver.

[A]

It is possible.

[C]

Very mod friendly community. The Pantera community.

[A]

They customize their cars. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like a Pantera. Yeah, Panteras are good. They're a good time. And countaches are highly variable. It really depends, like not just which type of countach, but like literally like which one you drove. And yeah, they're not for everybody.

[B]

It's my, it's my favorite because wherever

[A]

you go with a coontos wall, it's

[B]

literally in my office still. The poster I had at my house. Like, I. That's the one thing I have to answer me. I have other things I like, but that, that's. If you're gonna say my favorite. That's the one.

[A]

Are you putting like race motor in your Pantera?

[B]

I'm still thinking about the drivetrain.

[A]

Just like how you.

[B]

I'm think I thinking about it. I got a really badass D motor which is. It's revs to like 10,000 RPM. That's. I'm also looking at a couple IndyCar motors.

[C]

Oh my God.

[B]

I'm playing street car. Yeah. But it's like how often am I going to drive it?

[A]

Not that often.

[B]

Make it also.

[A]

No, but it has to be like, like kind of streetable. Like, can you like, can you, can you make an Indy car?

[B]

I think so. You know, Rock, he's trying. He's got a. He's got a rack of old kazi.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Indy car motors.

[A]

Has he made one of them street legal? I don't think he, he will, but

[C]

I, but I think the drivability. If you could get a more normal v8 to rev to 10. I feel like that gets you enough of that super exotic indie flavor, but you also could slip the clutch on a hill and keep and get going. The Indy motor might be like, you know, 18,000 RPM.

[B]

But wait, are we talking about practicality right now?

[C]

Just a tiny bit.

[B]

I like it. No, to your point, what are you using it for?

[A]

You need to like, if you're gonna drive it on the street, you don't want it to be like horrible.

[B]

I, I, originally my original plan was I had a full body design. I was going to go batshit crazy. Gonna do Electric Front Drivetrain, GT3 Mustang Race Motor in the back. And then I'm like, I got too much going on. So I scrapped the body. I just got a whole metal, the, the Group 5 or GT5 style car. And, and I'm still working on the motor in my mind, but I got, I got interior parts at interior guy. Got metal work being done to the metal guy. So things are happening. Okay.

[C]

I'm so excited about that.

[B]

Things are happening. Yeah.

[A]

I'm sure you'll figure out something cool. What gearbox will you use?

[B]

Well, the ZF's in it right now. Obviously the original five speed. Yeah, that's in it.

[A]

Can you make the Ricardo from the Ford GT fit? If you can, it's like the best manual of all time.

[B]

Yeah. So this is where, I don't know where I'm going with it. It because 6 XD, who makes sequentials, they just came out with a rear transaxle.

[A]

Oh, well, yeah, you got the hook up on that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

It could be fun.

[C]

That could be. Yeah, that's the way.

[A]

Yeah. A little the old. I cannot argue, I cannot argue with this.

[B]

So I'm, I'm, I'm still playing. You know, it comes in, it comes in ebbs and plays.

[A]

I love a good Pantera though. The Duffel Shuffle Retirement Club.

[B]

These names are great. You guys are great.

[A]

What insane. What inspired you to build cars in the beginning and what inspires you now? I mean, you just talked about the dream of Ford of having your own name on a production car. That's amazing. But back in the day.

[B]

Yeah, you know, it's interesting. And this is part of the story I tell dealers about the brand. I have a photo of me as a five year Old in like a little tux. My mom in her wedding gown. And I got Hot Wheels in my hand. And I probably had it in my pocket too. And they literally had to pry these Hot Wheels out of my hand so I could take the rings down the aisle. My mom's wedding. And my dad is who, I have to say is who inspired me. My dad was a used car salesman, so he's always buying cars from the auction and he fix them up. And he was a hot rodder, so he'd always bring some random cars home and always be working on them. And he'd take me to street races. And I just felt absolutely in love with it. And I was actually forced to work on my first car. My first car was a 64 Cutlass.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

Had hydraulics and Daytons on it too.

[A]

Seriously?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Did you put them on or did you buy it?

[B]

There was a. There was. If you probably wouldn't be able to find it. There was a Jamaican family that had to leave the country very quickly in D.C. and my dad passed their house and one day they wanted 12 grand for the car. And like a week later they wanted like three grand for the car.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I had just made honor roll and my 16th birthday was coming up. My dad was hardcore on grades. So for my 16th birthday, my dad. I'd be shocked if you find it.

[C]

Found it. You did find on your Facebook, my friend.

[A]

There it is.

[B]

Yeah. So that car. Look at the cable.

[A]

He's got the cable. Dude.

[B]

That is the car. That and dude, on the mirror you see the mural on the trunk. So it's Washington D.C. and the Capitol building was on fire. This was. This car was mint. All black, shaved door handles, full brand new leather interior, 330 rocket motor. This is the car that made me

[A]

look at the short wheelbase caravan in the background behind it.

[B]

That was the truckster, the family trucks. But this car made me learn how to work on cars. So I was inspired by my dad. But this car forced me because it was constantly breaking ball joints, tie rods from hopping in batteries. Dude, I used to go. I would blow solenoids all the time. I'd go into high school with just gear, just oil, hydraulic fluid all over my hands. One time the trunk caught on fire. Me and my three boys, I was driving to school at the time, had to literally piss in the trunk to put the fire out.

[C]

Wait, why does, why does the trunk catch on fire? Because I saw a lowrider at hot August nights have the trunk catch on fire after bouncing too much.

[B]

Yeah, because there's 12 batteries in it.

[A]

Okay. Yeah.

[B]

And so what happened is my switch box fell over while we were driving and one of the switches stayed on. So the solenoid got super hot and started arcing the battery cable. And there was an oily rag in the trunk that caught an arc and flid off.

[A]

This big amazing sequence in a movie. Yeah, this is like. I can picture this sequence of events happening in a movie.

[B]

So it's three of us, right? So my one boy, my best friend at the time, Ricky, I'm like, we're right at a corner store. I'm like, run in and get some water. Me and Jared, my boy, get out. We're staying up in the trunk, you know, peeing in the. In the trunk. Ricky comes out with like a 20 gallon. Sorry, 20 ounce. Like a 20. He just went in and got the styrofoam cup and put in the water and he's running and the water splashed out. By the time he got to us, there's like five ounces in the cup. Anyway, we got the fire out. And that is why I started or learned how to work on cars. Because I kept breaking that car, dude. And then after that was the S13.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Here we go. Here we go.

[A]

You really turned the car.

[B]

Let's read this core real quick. 2016.

[A]

This is me, me, age 16, with my first car. A 64 Cutlass with hundred spoke Daytons and a 10 switch hydro system. Skateboard in the trunk and a mix of Easy E, Rancid and Wu Tang in the CD player.

[C]

There you go.

[A]

There it is.

[B]

That's it. How to learn to work on cars.

[A]

And is that it? Looks like a BMW E30 in the little corner.

[B]

Yeah, that was my stepfather's. That's the car I learned how to do burnouts and donuts.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

I had to tell him that a long time. I told him that a long time ago. When they would leave, I had this little spot I would take it to and do some boner burnouts and donuts.

[A]

Dude, I love that you had a hydraulics fucking.

[B]

Yeah, I tried to buy it back too.

[A]

You know where that car is? Yeah, he.

[B]

But yeah, and he, he was gonna sell it to me, but then he. Once he realized or thought what I was and he jacked it up and he's done a full frame off restoration, took all the hydros off it, and now has made it kind of like a street rod.

[A]

Oh, wow. Is it because you showed up his house in a GTD? Mr. Chrome. Mr. Chrome suit trying to talk Mr. Chrome. He wanted seven grand, I offered him three. This is well looked in by GT.

[B]

Tried to buy it wearing a monocle.

[C]

Wearing an RTR monocle well before that.

[A]

That's amazing.

[C]

Incredible.

[A]

Low Gaslight Anthem, your 2014 SEMA. Oh, the ultimate fun haver truck. Yeah. Good short cab, short wheelbase truck. At the time, did Ford consider putting something similar into production? And why isn't such a segment more popular in your opinion?

[B]

Yeah, I love that truck. Good time? Oh, it was great. It drifted, it jumped it on road, off road, it was great.

[A]

Whatever happened to that thing? You sell it for charity or something?

[B]

Yeah, I sold it and then it was auctioned off for charity, I think. And then. Yeah, yeah, it was, it was auctioned off and then a guy I know bought it from the guy that won it. A guy in St. Louis. Like a huge fan that's been around for a long time. Ben's his name and yeah, you know, no, they did not think about putting something in production like that. I mean something like this with the different ride heights and, and airbags and stuff like that. It would just be such a nightmare for someone like Ford to do that. But he's talking about a sport truck, I think, and I do love the sport truck segment and I, I have some ideas for us in the future and I think, I don't think it's not that the segment would take off. I mean Ford just came out with a lobo.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

You know, I, I, I think that there's an opportunity to do a sport truck right in the future and give it some horsepower, you know. You know, I, I think, I think people really like that and I think now soon is the time to do that. So it's something I'm definitely thinking about

[A]

is a cool sema. I mean that was a very functional SEMA build.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I mean everything I've ever built for SEMA is functional.

[A]

Oh, that's not everybody though, you know. True.

[B]

What should be Yamaha bb.

[A]

Yamaha bb. We already no up to your ass in gasoline. We already sort of talked about Maki

[B]

Rally potential for a leisure off road.

[A]

Yamahabibi says, what's your favorite Mustang you've ever driven?

[B]

My favorite Mustang that I've ever driven has to be the Hoonicorn. Yeah, I mean I just, I mean I just that's the most, to this day, the most unbelievable vehicle that we've ever had come come from RTR Fair. I do want to give up to your ass and gas just a little bit because yeah, he's he tight this up.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I like the potential of off road vehicles. Let's forget about the range and how you charge. Just a fear function of that. The low center of gravity weight in off road and the instant torque. Phenomenal. Right. Think about like being in the sand or being in situations where like in my race truck I wouldn't be able to toss the car. You, you can't flip. I mean you might be able to, but I don't believe you could flip a Mach E rally. It would be hard because the battery is so low. So that would be massive, massive benefits. And then the torque and the wheel control like you could have like I just think about like when I'm at King of the hammers racing going up the rocks just to be able to switch and have low output and just full grip on the rocks. But then like when I'm in the desert or get in the sand and I actually need to get wheel speed to get me going, the, the infinite adjustability I think would be phenomenal.

[C]

Do you guys not have that in the gas powered truck? Like driving modes essentially. Like you go into the rocks, you can hit a button and the throttle's less responsive and then you get right.

[B]

No, because my truck right now we do not have that. Because we are drive by wire. We can do that. We just have not done it. But it would not have the same torque control.

[C]

Yeah, definitely.

[B]

With the electric car you could just be.

[A]

Yeah, no. When we've done electric off roading in Rivians, the electric G wagon, like they're dope. Like the difference man, I'm talking about like not racing. I'm talking about a regular person going up a trail. Right. When you do a gas car, even a very good one, like a Land Cruiser or something, you know, you hear the engine, you know a little bit of strain and then you can hear the top tires a little bit. In the electric car, there's like no slip.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's just whatever is needed makes it like your 1500 horsepower drift car. Oh, I need to get 22 horsepower and not 23 to the ground. It's exactly that much. Yeah.

[B]

We built the switch gear. I don't know if you know that the F150 Lightning switch gear that we built for Ford, we basically built that and made it as have like Raptor esque capabilities. And the low center of gravity of the battery in that truck was just made the dynamics unbelievable off road.

[A]

Widebodysalami says if Ford doesn't make a Mustang quote Dakar variant, would you the shitting and gittin Baja Mustang.

[B]

I'd be lying if I didn't tell you I have a concept in my phone of a rally Mustang.

[A]

If they don't raptorize it, you know, you could certainly do it.

[B]

It's definitely something that is of interest to me right now. With what we've kind of got in development on our plate. I don't know that'll be in the next couple years. But if no one does it, I could say there's a potential that we could do it.

[A]

Front wheel drive NSX says what's it like working with Cletus?

[B]

Have you met, have you met Cletus?

[A]

I've never met him in person. I've texted with him hundreds of of times. And Zach and I are racing in his race in Connecticut on I'm racing that race too. July 17th.

[B]

I'm racing that race too.

[C]

Yes, dude.

[A]

Connecticut.

[B]

July 17race or are you individually doing it?

[A]

I don't know.

[C]

Need to ask questions.

[B]

I don't know that there's a two person race.

[A]

I think we might each be on our own cars.

[B]

I love Cletus.

[A]

Yeah, seems like a solid individual.

[B]

Me, when he was just first starting like 15, 16 always tells me this story. He's like, like, he's like dude, I was at SEMA and I was so nervous to meet you and but you were like so cool and, and, and, and we've just become friends. I, I met him after that again at Holly Ford Fest and he had his Crown Vic and we did some drifting and I literally talked to him this morning. We're talking about sick doing some cool stuff.

[A]

So we're gonna see you in July at his race.

[B]

I can't wait to see.

[A]

It's our first time doing it.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

Yeah, so our first time.

[B]

You know, me and Kurt Busch won one of the races.

[A]

I can't wait to get my ass

[C]

by real drivers sharing a car.

[B]

We. Yeah, we shared a car and I we won two Fieros.

[A]

Hell yeah.

[B]

And so my mom, When I was 5 years old there's a video on my YouTube of me giving my mom one of the Fieros. We, when I was five we used to literally we had, we were, we were dead broke. My. My dad and my mom were not together. By living my mom awesome relationship my dad but living with, with my mom and we just didn't have money and we literally drove a Chevette with a blanket over us. Had a hole in the floorboard. So our local radio station was giving away a Fiero and it was like 85, 87ish. And my mom, I mean every time tried to win this thing, you know, and never did, but nonetheless I won this Fiero through the race and I ended up. I gave it to my mom. I got surprised her with. She drives it.

[A]

Seriously.

[B]

Her tag says winner on it.

[A]

She loves it, dude, so much.

[B]

It's the greatest, it's the greatest thing.

[C]

Fantastic. It was so nice, nice of Kurt Busch to win that race for you guys.

[B]

Yeah, I did pretty good. I gave him a good clean car. I saved all the nitrous. I didn't touch the nitrous button once.

[C]

I love there's a nitrous button. Oh my God.

[B]

Then Kurt did kind of dirty win, but we won. Winning, winning.

[C]

I'm just talking now and I'm gonna lose hard later.

[B]

Don't worry, dude. Good. Yeah, don't worry. I can't wait.

[A]

Habibi Autosport. Vaughn, what is your favorite, one of your favorite Formula Drift memories?

[B]

Let's just say drifting in general. I mean Formula drift, you know, there, there's been a lot of.

[A]

I mean you got championships. Yeah, I mean up the ass you got a lot.

[B]

I mean from winning winnings. I'll say just in general. USA vs. Japan 2005 was my absolute favorite drift, like winning thing. But Formula drift memories, I mean from 2004 to like 2007, 2008 is probably when it got real serious and I told you, I started doing the mental training and stuff. It was. We thought we were rock stars of race cars. I mean if, if you could like, if you saw like a cartoon of where Formula D showed up and like bounced around those years, it would just be like a trail of fire. I mean we, we. She had so much fun those early days.

[A]

I mean, barely organized Wild west.

[B]

She actually did a pretty good job. But it was the drivers like, you know, drifters are, you know, we, I don't want to say the outcast, but we're all very like minded, you know, like we're the skaters, we're the freer spirits of motorsport and it's always kind of been that way. I mean, you know, the hotel furniture would end up in the pool and you know, like the pool furniture and it, it was just like, it was just a wild time. You had a bunch of dudes in their early 20s sponsorship, good times. So those early days were really fun. I mean I definitely have a lot of great competition memories over the last 20 years. But the USA versus Japan was absolutely my favorite. And again mentioning the book, I was just writing this today and reliving this one story I share with you. In 2005, we brought the Mustang and everyone thought I was crazy. And that whole year, we had nothing but trouble with the Mustang, with the. With the motor we were running. We were getting a motor from a guy in Canada. His name was Sean Hyland, and he was the guy to build these motors, but they just couldn't handle drifting. Long story short, my experience. So USA versus Japan was at the end of the year, we had a new motor. Falcon went to hell. Castlegren, you know, Castle grin. They built the Toyota Atlantic motors back in the day. 4 ags. They never built a Mustang motor. They first shot, built us the highest horsepower na mod motor ever. And that's what I was running. So I went into this round of the USA versus Japan with no confidence. I literally borrowed a car like five of the six rounds of Formula D that year. So I had no confidence going into this. And my first battle is against Kazama. And Kazama is like the previous year's D1 champ, like, the guy. And here I am, you know, long story short, you know, I beat this dude and then I went on to win that event. And that was like kind of the shot heard around the world. And it was such an impactful event, not only for myself, but drifting in America. And so that. That's a good. To me, was a really good memory. That's a good one. Yeah.

[A]

Also, can anyone beat Dean this year?

[C]

That guy is a cyborg man. When I watch footage of him, like, wow, he's unreasonable.

[B]

Unbelievable human, unbelievable driver. And yeah, it's, It's. It's incredible that we have him on the team.

[A]

Last one. Find me the squiggles. That's a Google Maps reference.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

There have been quite a few action sports stars who's transitioned into motorsports. Is there something relational between those two things as an athlete, or is it more of the relationships with the marketing side and lifestyle brands leading to those opportunities?

[B]

100%.

[A]

With age comes a cage.

[B]

Yeah, well, I started in motocross and I skateboarded. I rode bmx. And so my. My belief, like, when you break down driving, you're. You're just managing weight. Yeah, Right.

[A]

It's literally going from motorcycles to cars is an advantage.

[B]

100% a big one. Because when you. When you come off of things like a skateboard and a bike or motorcycle across, your weight needs to be in the exact perfect places or you're crashing. And so you become an expert, like your internal gyrometer becomes so finely tuned, your butt dyno, just acceleration, braking force, you become so connected. And so when, then when you get in a car and you have a cage around you, freaking Superman. So you push even harder than you did before. So there's absolutely a connection. You know, everyone's like, oh, go karts, do go karts. I'm like, get a dirt bike, go ride. If you want to do cars, go get a dirt bike. Carding will make you fast for sure. But I don't believe that carding gives you the same understanding of vehicle dynamics as something like, oh, dirt.

[A]

That's probably. I think that's very accurate because if

[B]

you go to the limit in a cart you're spinning, you don't ever get to learn well.

[A]

And you find folks if they're very good at drifting or rallying or loose surface driving or motorcycling, it's typically backwards compatible with grip driving, which is not true the other way. You know, you could have some cart savant who's good in a formula car that can't fucking do a basic second gear slide, you know, or even though, you know, but often the other way around.

[B]

Well, it's because their craft is, is about driving at the limit.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

They're scared, most of them. There. There's a lot of outliers, and I'm not discounting anyone, but the reality is they put their 10,000 hours and gain the limit and consistently being there, they haven't practiced going over it. Whereas rally drivers, motocross, drifting, you're constantly over the limit. So reeling it back in, it's more of a message mental thing than it is a physical.

[A]

You just have to like, remind yourself to not be sliding all the time because it's slow.

[B]

100.

[A]

It's not like. Yeah, it's.

[B]

There's that 10 buffer, right. Where if like 11's over the limit, get into 90. I find in road racing is very easy. That extra 10.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Freaking scary.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. We work with Billy Johnson. He's one of our test drivers of our, of our RTR.

[A]

Ours.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And this dude at the 95 to 100%. Unbelievable.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When I'm road racing, I'm like a 90% guy. When I get to like 9500, it's just some feelings that I've not felt and I don't have the confidence that the car is going to stick.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? So unless I'm out trying to, you know, win a record, I'm very happy with Driving on a road course at 95%.

[A]

I, I, you know, I race for fun for. And I race with a fucking kid. Shout out to tato. He's 21, he races in Super Trofeo and he is fast in a way I can't understand. Not just that I can't do. Yeah, I have his day. I have his logs. I line them up next to mine. I can't understand them.

[B]

You can't understand how he's doing, what he's doing.

[A]

Dude, I'm so lucky. I already have a team with him and Tommy Kendall and Zach is coming. I love Tommy Kendall and Tom's the best. He's the best. Zach's coming to race with us at Road America in two weeks. It's going to be fucking awesome. But dude, this kid was at Cota in December, was 2 1/2 seconds a lap faster than Tommy and he's like 21.

[B]

What? Yeah.

[A]

He's fearless and insane and like we're just like, yep, can't do it. I don't know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Happy to be on the same team as you.

[B]

And you're like, I feel like I would drive through that wall if I do the same thing as you. That, that's the thing, man. It's just, just a, you know, it's just, you know, you've gotten into driving harder. Yeah. Recent. More recently.

[A]

I'm, I'm lucky. But I have a lot of practice and you can keep it up and whatever.

[B]

10,000 hours, man. Yeah. And did that kid used to do sim? Oh, a lot of it still sim is. That's something. Talking about backwards compatible. I can't drift sim for. To save my life.

[A]

I can't either.

[B]

I'm pretty decent at road racing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm decent at like, you know, you know, dirt on iracing. Like when I, before I go race at Crandon, I'll just run some laps and stuff, but drifting, can't do it. But the kids that start in sim and get in a drift car, forget about it, dude. Oh, Hiro Manoa, this Japanese kid who just got picked up for WRC ride. He came to Formula D last year. He puts in like a thousand laughs before around. He's unbelievable. He's. He's probably the only person that can beat James Dean right now.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

As long as James having a good day.

[A]

Is it possible to. I mean, I'm sure this is a stupid question. Is there a good like drift sim setup that is better than others?

[B]

I don't know because I'm not Good at it.

[C]

Yeah, Like, Corey really likes it and assetto course is really good.

[B]

Yeah, that's the one. That's the game. But like wheel and stuff.

[A]

Yeah. I try. I try to practice for racing on sim. I suck balls.

[B]

Do you?

[A]

Yeah. I have crashes in a sim that I would never have in a car. That's. That is the problem.

[B]

Just use it. But use it, though, to just get your eyes going, you know, Just get the flow of the track and know what's there. It's still very valuable, you know? Did you know that if you can just sit and relax and get in a theta state in your brain? Right. So like premeditation, just. Just sitting, breathing and run laps in your head, your brain doesn't know the difference of doing it with a car or not. This is part of the mental training. So before I show up Anyway, I got 100 laps easy, right? Boom. See that?

[C]

And then it helps you memorize all those points. Yeah.

[B]

And it just makes it familiar. So if you guys are doing any of these endurance races, like leading into it.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

See the track, find the marks, assume the rough breaking points, and it just becomes so familiar because that's all you're trying to do.

[A]

That's a good one, is

[B]

create calmness in the chaos of racing, and that is when you can perform at your best.

[A]

Well, actually, when we went over to the sim to Tato's house the other day, the first I said, look, it's actually going to be more useful for me to watch you run laps and talk me through the breaking points than it is for me to sit there and try to. My hands can get through this fucking corner on the day, but you tell me, okay, three board and you do it a few times and I can have it there. I know tracks, I can have it there. And then when I show up in the car, I'll be fine.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And actually that worked.

[B]

Huge. Huge.

[A]

Yeah, huge.

[B]

I mean, every time I've ever gone racing, I go road racing. I go find the fast.

[A]

I should do it more. Yeah.

[B]

Many times it's been Tanner Faust, shout out Tanner to just get those little tips. And then I've got Tommy Kendall. Yeah, he's such a stud. I love him and he's fun.

[C]

Now, what'd you do before the Crown Vic race? Because you're like, now, are you downshifting from D to 3?

[B]

You know, what do we do in the Crown Vicks? Yeah, I think. I think I did shift. The biggest thing for that race. Race is it's a long race. Don't race until the end.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Just get through it.

[B]

Everyone's. Everyone's racing the front. They all got no front. Right tire. And then you just be popping. You stay out of trouble because you know.

[A]

How many laps is this?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

I don't even know.

[B]

I don't know. This race.

[A]

I don't even know.

[B]

I'll tell you, it's gonna be so. I'm so stoked you're going.

[A]

We're gonna have a blast.

[B]

I'm so ready.

[A]

It's gonna be.

[B]

We're gonna have a blast.

[A]

Hell, yeah.

[C]

It's called The New England 900.

[A]

900.

[C]

It's what it's called. Maybe it's 900 cars. I don't know. I can't find it. We'll find out.

[A]

Do I have to make my flight a day later? What are we doing? 24 hour race I've got myself into. Has he ever done a proper enduro? Cletus? Not as a driver. Has he ever hosted one?

[B]

I mean, mean, what's. What do you consider enduro? How long?

[A]

I don't know. 6, 6, 8, 12?

[B]

No, I don't think so.

[A]

That'd be crazy.

[C]

There's qualifying, there's a monster truck demo.

[A]

Of course there is sick.

[C]

Then there's a van race, and then there's the actual 900 race.

[A]

All right, well, it doesn't say how many to figure this out. Otherwise I might have to change my flight.

[B]

Yeah, it's gonna. It's gonna be a good time. I. I do need to. I do need. Ryan will kill me if I don't tell you about my book that's coming out.

[A]

When's the book coming out?

[B]

Did you know we were doing a book?

[A]

You told me on this show.

[B]

I had to get you one because I saw your. But it's like, I'm blown. I'm sitting here reading. It's like a book of the last 20 years, and it's. It's called Ready to Rock.

[A]

Is it a photo book or a written book?

[B]

It's both.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It's both. I wanted to do a coffee table book. I felt the time was right to. A lot of people are starting to get, you know, wanting to know more about the brand. And so it's called Ready to Rock, which is obviously what RTR stands for. For those who don't know. And it's dreamed passion and how cool shit wins. The story of rtr. And so it was. It's been a fascinating process. You know, my Mike Spinelli Yeah, Mike, of course. So Mike and I have chatted probably for 30 hours over the last couple weeks, and I just been dumping my brain to him, and he's kind of formatted and gotten away. And then I've gone through and literally edited every word. And it's from like the start of Drift all the way through this current moment with rtr. And it's got really some. I think my hope. Hope is that it'll be inspiring to some because the reality is, like, on paper. On paper, like, I'm not the guy to be here.

[A]

Why?

[B]

Well, I, you know, I dropped out of. Just in general. I dropped out of college. I, you know, like. Like all of those things, like, with the success I've had in business, on paper, like the standard dad, that's like, get a job, go to college. It's been a very different journey.

[A]

Yeah. And those paths rarely lead to, like, extraordinary. Those paths lead to, like, stability, but not. Not extraordinary.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Fucking rocking a six four on hydraulics as a first car in high school. That leads to extraordinary. That's a different story, though,

[B]

I guess I was gonna say is your shit

[A]

is bouncing in the parking lot between third period.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're on some other shit, dude.

[B]

I think a lot of people still kind of get lost. And it's like, I have. I still have people who now are like, pushing their kids into this more traditional thing and the world has changed. Yeah, right. The resources, the abilities that, like, you know, passion is the most powerful attractant in my opinion. So if you can find that and just live it and believe it, the things that you get from that come. So this has a bit of. Bit of that philosophy, a bit of like, the things of how they went down and it's. It's really cool. And I'm obviously sitting here saying a book about me and my brand is

[A]

cool, but reading it today, it's hard to go hawk a book about yourself. That's tough because you're not like a look at me kind of guy, despite the race car, the monster hat.

[B]

Totally. Exactly.

[C]

I think, I mean, I'll do it for like. I haven't read the book, but I have been a fan of yours and I do think your story, from what you've told us on previous appearances is amazing because there's a lot of people that even drive at your level, do FD and whatever, but you, you are like in the room with the. Arguably the largest OEM in the world making cars. And so you. Very few, Very few people have that story at all. So I think that's a really original story and it's super impressive.

[B]

Yeah. Thank you.

[A]

Yeah, I'm down. And it's the chapter on tantric sex that really got me.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

How inboard suspension helps

[B]

get that done.

[A]

JR thank you very much, bro.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

I appreciate it. RTRVehicles.com is actually where you can pre order the book. Is that it? Where can they pre order it? This is where we're looking at it now.

[B]

Yeah. Where do we get it now? I should probably be able to tell people.

[A]

It says available for pre order now. Career Mania, Carer Books.

[B]

Yep. Because we are not doing pre order but it's on and people find.

[A]

People find it in the show notes. Yeah. Ready to rock. That's awesome. And Mike Spinelli getting the work.

[B]

He's the man. I had so much fun with him.

[A]

Dude, we love Mike Spinelli. He's the best. Thank you everybody for listening. Thank you to our patrons for asking such good questions. If you happen to be in Stafford, CT on July 17th, come see JR, Zach and myself racing in a Cletus race. Apparently it's 900 something. So many of something, I don't even know. It's like an 8th mile speedway and we're just going to be so dizzy and. Yeah, RTR Spec 3, Spec 5. The Bronco. Shit. And are some parts available a la carte as accessories at deal dealers as well?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Cool.

[B]

Yeah. Well, we sell parts obviously at the website and then our collaboration vehicles come with Ford. I'm so pumped.

[A]

Yeah. That's awesome. Good for you, dude.

[B]

Well, we don't have to get you in in those.

[A]

Yeah, I want to try the four cylinder. Yeah, I even asked you about that before I even. I texted. He was like. When the story came out about that, I was like, can I drive that? And you're like, well, we only have the 870 horsepower one. Fine, I'll take that one. Yeah, we'll get.

[B]

Yeah, we'll get.

[A]

No, but your car's ride, drive, stop and handle very, very nicely.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

They're very balanced cars and I really, I really like that about them. Thanks, man. We'll see you. Let's go. You now go look at my sparkly and your mystichrome Bronco. Let's go, bud. Thanks, everybody. See you. Live from Charlotte 1010 Motor Club for the Heritage Invitational. We got a live show and that's on Thursday and you'll hear it then.

[B]

Bye.