← The Smoking Tire
The Smoking Tire
We Almost Rolled the INEOS Wagon
02:00:46
Matt Farah and Zack Klapman went off-roading in the new 2026 INEOS Grenadier Station Wagon Trialmaster and it almost went very wrong; a full review of the INEOS and its competitors; Tesla is ending production of the Model S and X, so we talk about why and what it means for the future; Washington D.C. is going to have an INDY street race apparently; and we answer 50 questions from our Patreon members, including: Would we rather be mid-tier racing drivers or have our current jobs? Which supercar should have had a diesel engine? Miata RF or soft-top? Best M5: E90 M5 or E90 M3? Most enthusiast-magnet nerd car? Are "classic" tires worth the price for my older car? Which cars does every enthusiast need to drive? More timeless design: Lexus GS or C6 Corvette? Do we like bigger wheels? When? Were early paddle-shifted transmissions cool when they came out? That new Porsche Rally GT Why does the S63 AMG feel like too much AMG and not enough S? F1 2026: Audi vs Cadillac. Thought...
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- [00:00]
A
What's up everybody? Welcome to the Smug and Tire podcast. Today's episode is, as always, brought to you by off the Record. We love off the Record and you guys do too. Or at least you keep telling me over and over in the DMs in the emails that off the Record saved your backside from a big old problem out there. Here's how it works. If you are driving out there in your car, you could be doing basically anything. And then you get pulled over and you get a ticket. It happens, you know. But what you don't do is plead guilty. You never plead guilty. You don't have to plead guilty. It won't just make it go away. Instead what you do is get off the record. You go to offtherecord.com TST that'll get you 10% off all legal services booked through off the Record. And they will fight that case all the way to the end. If they don't get those points off your record, you don't have to pay. It is like that. Offtherecord.com TST I'm using them every time I need them right there in my back pocket. Always taking care of me and our TST fan base. So make sure you write that one down. Offtherecord.com TST. All right folks, on this show, Zach and I have had a go in the ineos. Grenadier did a little bit of off roading and we go over that. Plus Herr Fuhrer wants to have an IndyCar race at the National Mall in Washington. And Elon has decided to not make cars anymore, canceling the Model X and S with no replacement. All this and more. It's the Smoking Tire podcast. Let's go. What the fuck was I even doing this weekend? Went to Manhattan Beach Cars and Coffee, which was good. It was so busy. Place was like over full by. It's supposed to start at 8. I get there at 7:35 and the place is like blown out.
- [01:55]
B
Dude.
- [01:55]
A
Wow. If I didn't have a little, you know, position of authority, maybe I was in. I got a little front Rosies, you know, just nice. They put me next to. In between a singer and a Ford gt. The pink car. It was okay.
- [02:10]
B
Wow. Where, where do they hold that one? Is it in the parking lot?
- [02:14]
A
No, it's at the point. The, the fucking fancy sort of mall.
- [02:19]
B
Okay.
- [02:21]
A
Right at the. So it's Manhattan Beach Cars and Coffee. Now technically it's in El Segundo, but it's across the street would be Manhattan Beach. It's on the north side of Rosecrans Avenue. The south side of Rosecrans Avenue is Manhattan Beach. I'd pull the same trick. I cannot throw a stone in that glass house. This is west side collector car storage. Playa Vista. Technically, it's Culver City. Playa Vista's across. Playa Vista's 50 yards away.
- [02:51]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [02:54]
A
It'S still. Why do my pants feel so tight right now? Really? These are. You know what I'm doing. I had to get new pants, which is a good thing. Means you're a little less fat. New pants. And so I got the same pants Polo Ralph Lauren jeans in, like, different levels of, like, stretch. These are the fucking. No stretch.
- [03:16]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [03:16]
A
These are hard as a rock.
- [03:18]
B
Yeah.
- [03:18]
A
I'm not sure how often I'm supposed to wash these. It's probably not that often.
- [03:22]
B
It's not.
- [03:23]
A
They did.
- [03:23]
B
Some scientists did a test where, like, jeans that were worn for, like, months straight and jeans are washed and they had the same bacteria content at the end. It's pretty amazing.
- [03:30]
A
They can get smelly, I think, right?
- [03:33]
B
Depends on how much you fart, maybe.
- [03:36]
A
I mean, dude, if you're an active person and wearing a fucking pair of jeans for five, six days in a.
- [03:41]
B
Row, that's how much you sweat. You're telling me like, jeans. If you. If you're in Florida in any time and it's humid. Yeah. Your jeans are going to smell much more quickly, for sure.
- [03:51]
A
The move I was taught was if you put your jeans in the freezer, it freezes all the bacteria, gets rid of all the smells. But it's not like a wash doesn't.
- [03:59]
B
Damage the jeans, right? Yeah, like, washing allegedly does.
- [04:03]
A
I mean, I guess. Yeah. I would say I wash my jeans probably every three to five wears. I wash them. Yeah, we'll see. But these don't stretch, so they're riding up on my fucking.
- [04:15]
B
It's weird. I wear those prana pants all the time that stretch. And now I'm wearing regular jeans today and the same thing. They get stretched very, very. These are the problems we deal with.
- [04:22]
A
Oh, man. It's like going barefoot. You know, you're on a beach somewhere for a vacation, you know, you don't wear real shoes for, like, five days. This is gonna happen when we go on the boat.
- [04:31]
B
Yeah.
- [04:32]
A
And then you put sneakers back on. And even if they're the most comfortable. Nbs. Or you're like, oh, my God, my foot is, like, in this coffin. So weird. When I go on the long road trip, scouts for road and track, I wear like fucking Lululemon pants. Because it's just me sitting in a car. Why would I wear. You know. But then you put on the jeans. You're like, what the fuck is this torture device that has been invented.
- [04:53]
B
Yeah.
- [04:55]
A
Hi everybody. Thanks for, thanks for joining us. It's Monday. It's our Monday. Don't know when you're going to get this. If you're on Patreon. Patreon.com smoketirepodcast. You can get it live. You get it the same day. You're gonna get it way before everybody else and we're gonna get to some of their questions. So if you want to help us out, help yourself out, help us pay the bills, help you get a better experience. Patreon.com the Smokingtirepodcast is where it's at. Zach and I are dirty this morning because we spent it on the MO with the new and improved Ineos Grenadier. And Ineos has a boy. Do they have a name? Scheming. That really takes some learning. So the Ineos is the manufacturer. The Grenadier is the model line. The Grenadier is then broken down into station wagon, which is the SUV that vaguely resembles, I mean vaguely, a lot resembles A defender. 110 a lot.
- [05:54]
B
Yeah.
- [05:54]
A
And then there's the quartermaster, which is the pickup truck. And that thing is like long like a Jeep Gladiator. Right. It's picture Jeep Gladiator, but that's the one. You know, I've only ever seen one. I think we have many. We have a higher percentage of Grenadiers on the streets of Los Angeles than most other places in the country.
- [06:19]
B
Yeah, I agree.
- [06:20]
A
Ryan from Ineos I had lunch with before got this thing, he said Texas is the biggest market. Which doesn't surprise me. This is a real fucking outside of Dallas kind of car. Sure.
- [06:35]
B
And especially if you have a dirt road to your house, it helps justify having an off roady vehicle. And like it's more, it's more of a truck state or area than Los Angeles is for sure.
- [06:47]
A
So. And this thing is Truckee. This is the possibly the truckiest feeling SUV on the market today. It's ladder frame. It's a body on frame thing. Solid axles, old school. And it's a square, it's fucking boxy and it has recirculating ball steering which I thought had completely gone the way of the dodo in passenger vehicles. But they're bringing it back.
- [07:16]
B
Does the wrangler not still use it?
- [07:19]
A
I don't Think so. I think the Wrangler finally got. I think the Wrangler finally got it, didn't it? Or no. The Bronco has rack and pinion. The Bronco having rack and pinion eliminates, in my opinion, any valid argument for having recirculating ball steering. Basically, if you don't know what I'm talking about. Rack and pinion steering makes SUVs steer more like cars. It's a bit of a sharper turning ratio, more like a car has than a truck has. Whereas the Grenadier has circulating ball steering, which means it's a lot of turns, lock to lock, and a lot of sort of dead. Big dead zone in the center followed by a fairly abrupt movement once you try to. Once you notch it one way or the other. You know what I mean? You described it in better words than that earlier.
- [08:14]
B
Well, off center, it was very light for about an inch. And then as soon as you got to the point of friction, it felt like Camaro's in sport mode. The weight was more of a shelf than a ramp. Yeah, the Wrangler does still use steering, which is why I totally forgot this. The Bronco, one of the big deals is that it has rack and pinion. So that's part of why it's a little easier to drive on the highway.
- [08:35]
A
It's been a while since I drove a Wrangler. Sorry. But now that I would think about it, I remember when we drove all the Broncos, we were like, yes, this is better because it steers better.
- [08:43]
B
Yeah, it steers.
- [08:44]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so then if you're familiar with Wrangler, then this, I guess will be kind of like that. But I think something about the. That the recirculating ball steering combined with the shape and position of the steering wheel in this vehicle makes it like extra weird. The steering wheel is like almost a sports car sized steering wheel. It has two spokes. We've got a photo of it somewhere. You have an interior photo handy there. Yeah, it's got two spokes that come out at 9 and 3. Kind of tough to tell which way is up on the steering wheel sometimes.
- [09:20]
B
Yes, it really is.
- [09:23]
A
And it's the kind of wheel you'd see. Like this wheel would be right at home in a Mini Cooper.
- [09:27]
B
Yeah. Or a Fiat 500, you know, something kind of funky like that.
- [09:32]
A
Yeah, A Citro and hatchback. So when you combine this small, thick rimmed steering wheel with a ton of turns, lock to lock, and quite a bit of weight, it is fairly heavy steering. It just, it to me presents an odd experience for a vehicle that is for most people in America going to be driven on the street, on tarmac most of the time.
- [09:58]
B
Yeah, like there's a lot of pushback on the wheel and it, it could be the alignment, it could be, you know, you have pretty big wheels and tires, but it's just as you, when you turn it, you're getting a lot of force back on it. Not necessarily feel, but it's pushing those wheels to go straight again.
- [10:11]
A
Yeah.
- [10:12]
B
So the steering as you turn in, this is better. The quartermaster, I think you had to like hold it in the turn. So it was a looser feeling. It was just weird.
- [10:22]
A
The self centering, which is when you're going from a turn and the car straightening out. And most cars will, if you let go of the wheel, sort of tend to do that on their own. The wheel will unwind on its own. Right on the road. You have to physically unwind it from a corner. In this vehicle, if you make a 90 degree right turn, the wheel will unwind effectively, stay there.
- [10:45]
B
It doesn't spin back, it does not self center.
- [10:48]
A
So that's another different thing you have to do, which is in a vehicle where you have to spin the wheel a lot. It's a lot. Now this sounds like I'm kind of shitting on it. I want to, like, this is a criticism about this thing that I don't particularly like. They made a choice. It's not like a failure. It's not like something that didn't work. Like they say it's stronger. They say it's better for off roading. They say this is first and foremost an off roading vehicle and driving it on tarmac is deeply secondary to how it performs off road. Fucking fair enough. Like, fair enough. You know, it's like saying this race car is bad in traffic. Okay, fair enough. You know, so we took it off roading then. It's pretty good at that.
- [11:29]
B
It is.
- [11:30]
A
It's pretty good at that. The trail that we use, which is called Rower north of la, was pretty rough today. This trail was as eroded full of rocks and holes as I've ever seen it. I mean, I think Zach could attest to that, that this was the most challenging that this particular trail has ever been, in my opinion.
- [11:50]
B
Yeah, I think. Well, we had a week of rain, the biggest. The big storm out here and it washed all the dirt that fills in these rocks. I mean some of the rocks we were on, it just the, the rain revealed a lot more of them. So if the Rock was four inches. It might be six now. Yeah. And all of the little. You have these little, like, Legos that form a larger rock out here, the ones that are all compressed together. And all of those teeth were revealed, too, which. That provides a lot of grip. But, I mean, any of these undulations that just turned into rivers during this rainstorm were way deeper than they've been in any of our time climbing this thing.
- [12:25]
A
Yeah. Normally, a competent stock SUV does not have much trouble with this trail.
- [12:31]
B
We did it in an escape before.
- [12:34]
A
No, we did it in Bronco Sport.
- [12:35]
B
Sorry, Bronco Sport.
- [12:36]
A
Bronco Sport made it up. That was probably the, like, puniest thing to make it up.
- [12:41]
B
Did we make it in the Outback or if it's the Outback.
- [12:43]
A
Did not make it.
- [12:44]
B
It couldn't get past the hole.
- [12:45]
A
Yeah, the Outback. The Outback. Didn't make it. I tried it in a macan once, and that couldn't do it. But, like, anything with low range can do it pretty much. But we had a couple spots today that we had to fully reverse down. I. I came very close to rolling. Yes, you can. Do you show the photo? Do you have the photo of me?
- [13:04]
B
I have a photo of the area.
- [13:07]
A
This dude, we pushed this thing today. We scratched up both skid plates pretty well.
- [13:13]
B
And the center, it should be said in rouer. There's a couple of hills where you can choose three different routes up the hill, you know, and it's usually, like, for skiing, like, you know, an intermediate slope and, like, two expert slopes. But the one in the middle has always had the deepest holes, These kind of, like, oscillations, you know, it's tilting the truck back and forth. It really tests articulation.
- [13:33]
A
Yeah.
- [13:34]
B
And what I recognized after. Well, we can talk about the moment, and then we can talk about the tech that this truck should have had.
- [13:41]
A
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- [15:55]
B
Yeah. And it was higher at a different point in that, like in that section. The first time you did it, you stopped and I was like, holy shit. And I took a photo and your tire was absolutely two feet off the ground.
- [16:06]
A
Yeah. So then a few feet, maybe 10ft further up this ravine, there was another swale. But it was very soft and we did not air down. We honestly just out of laziness. And usually when we're testing stock SUVs on this trail, we don't air down. We just drive them right off the road and up the trail. Just because that's how we do the test. I mean, this isn't like sciency science, but I think if we air down some of the cars and not others, that would be not consistent. So we use whatever drive modes are appropriate and available for the challenge or the obstacle. And we leave the tire pressure stock. So I think had we aired down, we probably could have got up this soft thing. We didn't. I had to back down. I tried it like three times and on the third try, the vehicle went into this Ravine. But, like, we kind of realized just how, like, far down it was like. Okay, so in this photo, the front left tire is about 3ft in the air.
- [17:15]
B
That's a lot.
- [17:15]
A
And it's at full droop.
- [17:17]
B
Yeah.
- [17:18]
A
And the other tire is at full compression. The rear tire is articulated. The rear axle is articulated fully in the opposite way. And had I fallen. Had the front tire fallen from this, I absolutely would have rolled the vehicle. It was deep enough.
- [17:36]
B
And this was right before. Do I have a shot? No, because I put my phone down to help. So right after this moment, the front left tire went into this deep hole, and he kept proceeding forward. But then you hit the soft stuff, and the truck yawed left, like 9 inches. So now instead of facing straight up that trail and having all that control, you twisted. And the left front was kind of near a bush back. Right. I mean, that rear tire could not have gone higher where it would have gone into the back.
- [18:04]
A
I was sort of sideways down the hill.
- [18:06]
B
You were sideways. And the way the moment happened when you were starting to back up, I think, and the vehicle, like, started to it. Just the rebound of the shock and you were going slow. You weren't going fast. It was just the rebound and everything tilted your driver window closer to the ground than we really experienced.
- [18:27]
A
Yeah, really, really close to the ground.
- [18:28]
B
Like, I ran around the car and probably did nothing, but my instinct was push on the other fender, not like under the car, but I was like, oh, shit.
- [18:35]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [18:36]
B
And you just. You move back just enough. And the back left came. Rose. Rose up a little and settled it, but.
- [18:42]
A
Woof. I don't. It was like. It wasn't like a fuck up that got me there, and it wasn't like an act of heroism that got me out of there. It was just like a. Oh, shit. You know, it was one of those. It's very. This thing is capable enough that we got to this point where it was like, all right, let's see what this. You know, this is a hard obstacle. We're gonna choose the hardest path. We think it can do it. It actually can't. This is where it couldn't proceed. We had to go around the other one later. But, like, it's a tough rig, but, yeah, we got it pretty close to having a moment.
- [19:17]
B
And what this highlighted for me is the advantage of electronic, you know, sway bars. You know, you can get them on the Bronco, Ranger or Wrangler, I think had them first, of course. And that makes a massive difference because the articulation Toyotas you can do it.
- [19:33]
A
I think the Land Cruiser, I mean.
- [19:35]
B
People who are experienced off roaders know, and we've been on press launches where you try something with, you know, those things engaged and then you disengage the sway bars and you gain a foot of articulation.
- [19:44]
A
Sure.
- [19:45]
B
Now in the back, I don't know if you would get more room because you might have the tire up against the wheel well. But in the front, if you're able to twist this down another foot, you know, that would have prevented the body from leaning so much.
- [19:58]
A
Yeah. I mean, I think what INEOS is really going for with this thing is to make it as simple as possible, which is an interesting thing for us to explore because I'm not sure that they've succeeded because it's still, it's not as complex as most modern vehicles. It has, as they told me, like somewhere between a half and two thirds of, excuse me, a third. I want to say that, right, the Grenadier has between one third and one half the number of ecus that a normal car would have today. So it has a mechanical low range, but it still has electronic locking diffs. It still has drive modes, it still has, has a screen and carplay and Bluetooth and fucking adas.
- [20:51]
B
How's that? Well, it's a turbocharged engine.
- [20:53]
A
It's a BMW engine and a ZF gearbox.
- [20:56]
B
Pretty modern stuff.
- [20:57]
A
Yeah. So it's not like it's got a Buick 3800 V6 and a five speed manual and crank windows. There are definitely things on this that could break in a modern way. Such as the gearbox that got stuck in fourth gear. For us, we actually didn't notice it because we were going downhill and we were in low range and we were essentially just idling the engine and using the brakes. But for about 45 minutes the vehicle was fully stuck in fourth gear and we had to shut it off. And I mean, fortunately all it took to fix it was shut it off, walk away for a few minutes, come back and that did fix it. But, you know, it just is a reminder that weird electronic hiccups can happen in this thing. Also, like, it's not so simple that check engine lights and your electronically controlled gearbox getting stuck in fourth gear isn't gonna happen. Like that happened.
- [21:59]
B
Yeah.
- [22:02]
A
But the analogness of it in an otherwise incredibly digitized world is super welcome. Like the buttons and the knobs and the toggles and the fact that at night there' so little light coming at you in the cockpit, like all that shit is Fucking great.
- [22:20]
B
Yeah. And those little bars next to the toggles, I'd always looked at them and just thought, oh, that's like a giant thing, little metal guards. I just didn't understand like the true function. And then we're bouncing around and I had to like disable the front locking different whatever. And I hooked my finger on it and hit it with my thumb and I went, oh yeah. That's why. Because otherwise there's no way I'd be able to aim for that button while we were bouncing up and down this trail.
- [22:42]
A
The off road controls aren't fully as intuitive as they maybe should be. But there is like a nice quick handy reference guide card placard that was very helpful.
- [22:53]
B
Every car company, if it's a press car should have that thing. Like if you're an owner you might learn these things. But I think any car that's sold and aimed at off roader should have placard off road functions. Because now with all these electronic diffs locking this and that, sometimes you have to dig in the manual and go find page 212E. And then if you want to look at the, you know, a different function, it's over on a different page. And this was here's all the things you might need to know. And it was really handy.
- [23:20]
A
We only when this, when we had the, the other ineos, like a year and a half ago, whatever it was, we had trouble getting into some of these modes. We didn't have that card.
- [23:28]
B
True.
- [23:29]
A
And the reason is like it can only go into this mode if this mode is engaged first. But like that doesn't pop up on the screen.
- [23:36]
B
I wish it did that because I'm glad you brought that up. There's a little on the lower left side of the screen is where the warning lights pop up. Little information. I kept thinking it was a button. They're not clickable shaped like some of the clickable buttons.
- [23:48]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [23:49]
B
But we have this screen that can display so much information and later on it said window washer fluid low.
- [23:56]
A
Yeah.
- [23:57]
B
So there's, there's programming in there that could tell me things, but to just say this unavailable.
- [24:02]
A
Yeah.
- [24:02]
B
Tell me why. Give me further information before you go into this mode. This must be activated because as much as I dislike Hyundai N division's menu like black hole, it will often say, hey, you have to go into this mode first. Doesn't tell you how, but it does say you have to be in that mode.
- [24:20]
A
It should work like a car configurator. Right. Where you click on the wool seats and it says, I'm sorry, you have to get premium package. Would you like to add premium package? And then it's just done, right. Like if it can work on the thing you use to buy the car, it should work in the car.
- [24:35]
B
That's exactly the idea.
- [24:37]
A
You know, like you must. So. Oh, to get in this mode, you must disable traction control. Would you like to disable traction control? Yes. Okay, done. There should just be a flowchart of.
- [24:46]
B
That because it's clear you want that thing on, right?
- [24:50]
A
Speaking of which, adas. Okay, Now, British car company, and we know from Aston Martin, the uk mandatory ADAS law. And for these small car makers, maybe I'll have to correct myself. This is a US market vehicle. This is not a European spec car. So the ADAS fully goes back on every time you start the car. If there are two kinds of cars where this should not happen, luxury, sporty SUVs is gotta be the biggest one because those are cars driven every day by people. That's people's every car. And then shit like this where it's supposed to give you the impression of something older and it's doing the most annoying thing possible out of today's cars. And to turn off the fucking 8s in this thing, you have to. To go in the touchscreen, you have to press settings, vehicle functions, adas, which brings up the ADAS menu. That's three button taps. If you are stopped, and I mean in park, you can then scroll to the bottom of a long menu at the very bottom and click a thing saying turn off all. And you have to do that. That's your best case scenario for every time you start the car. And I'm talking lane, lane, keep.
- [26:06]
B
That is the lane keep.
- [26:08]
A
That makes you almost think you've had a crash.
- [26:11]
B
The force of correction on the wheel was so abrupt. It happened twice while you were driving us back that I thought you were avoiding something about to hit.
- [26:19]
A
Yeah.
- [26:19]
B
And you're like you had just moved towards the yellow line on the left and it pushed back with three or four times as hard as you had moved over. It doesn't match the angle or cadence with which you've drifted. Yeah, it's really.
- [26:32]
A
It's almost like a dog ran in the road and I'm trying to avoid it or something. And you're talking about a top heavy, floppy ass suv, not a fucking Cayenne turbo, right? So you have to. So if best case scenario is 1, 2, 3, slide, 4, when you're parked every time, best case Scenario. If you forget and now you're driving. You can't hit the fucking. Turn all off. They gray it out. Now you have like six individual ADAS functions. Click off, Are you sure? Yes. Click off, Are you sure? Yes. Click off, are you sure? Yes. Click off, are you sure? So now it goes to like 15 button taps while you're. Touchscreen taps while you're driving, right? This is like crazy town. I can't fucking. And Johnny, I had dinner with Johnny the other night for a thing with Sergio. Cause Tato's going to whatever. We had dinner together. And Johnny goes, he's like in love with this thing. He goes, when I'm done with the Rivian, I'm gonna buy one of these. This is gonna be my next daily driver. I go, johnny, have you messed with the 8s yet? He goes, no, I didn't really try it yet. You're gonna want to do that. This shit is crazy, dude. That alone puts it in the absolutely fucking never category for me.
- [27:55]
B
I just think it' that the intention of adas is to increase safety, but if you are moving, it requires more attention on the screen than if you were parked.
- [28:04]
A
Insane. Yeah, insane. What else did I write about this thing? Okay, the good folks gotta take one more quick break because fitbod wants your ears. And man, I cannot tell you how important it is to have a routine and stick to it and get accountability, right? I have accountability. I have a personal trainer. I spoil myself. I spend my money on a personal trainer. And look, it works. I gotta do it. I know how to do a workout, but I need that accountability. And if you don't have a personal trainer, fitbod is a personal trainer in your pocket, right? It's so easy. Fitbod creates personalized workout routines based on your goals, fitness level and your available equipment, right? Then the workouts can adapt to your growth. So every workout is challenging enough to push you to make progress. Just like a personal trainer, fitbod then tracks your muscle recovery so you can avoid burnout and keep up your momentum. Fitbod is fine tuned by experienced, certified personal trainers to bring best practices and exercise science right to you. And There are over 1,000 demonstration videos within Fitbod so you know that you're doing the workouts right. You're not going to get hurt. The fitbod app makes working out easier. It feels like having a personal trainer in your pocket. And it will customize these workouts based on the goals that you have. So level up your workout in the new year. Join Fitbod today to get your personalized workout plan at fitbod Me Tire. That's fitbod Me Tire. F I T B O D Me Tire. And now back to the show. I think the BMW powertrain for the most part fits the character of this thing very well. I think it works.
- [30:00]
B
The only exception though was in low range there was this kind of step as you start applying throttle, the boost surge that would happen, it made it a little hard to modulate the thrust. And then like the speed of the rear wheel or the wheels between like 2000 and 2800 RPM. All of a sudden they go from torque spike. And it highlighted for me how impressive the 4Runner was. That's a four cylinder engine, but it had the I power, whatever electric boost. And by filling in those torque spots, it was much easier to creep up this exact same trail.
- [30:32]
A
Dude, the electric G wagon. Sure, the electric G wagon. And the Rivian. The four motor Rivian. That shit, that's like next level. I mean this. You don't want a Rivian in the fucking middle of Africa. That makes total sense. But for local off roading, Holy shit. Is 4 motor EV where it's fucking at?
- [30:54]
B
Yeah, that was the most controlled.
- [30:58]
A
I think the Grenadier particularly. And can we. Let's get a better picture of a fire engine fucking red. Which is new for this year with the steelies. And it's got the snorkel on it though they qualified the snorkel with. It is a dust snorkel, not a water snorkel. The fitment where the snorkel goes into the steel body is not watertight. So it's really for dust and not water.
- [31:21]
B
Yeah. The opening on the snorkel faces the back of the car, not the front of the car.
- [31:24]
A
Yeah. So I might not have. I quit mine with dust snorkel, but this one. But still the red with the black steelies. That's dope.
- [31:32]
B
Looks very good.
- [31:33]
A
The interior, I love the dashboard. The headliner, the pop up sunroofs above the driver like that shit is great. But this thing is $95,000. I don't mind manual seats, but we need lumbar support. That is a. Even if it's just a knob you crank up or a thing you squeeze for $95,000, 100 grand.
- [31:55]
B
And it's a vehicle that's meant to be driven for long, long, long distance. I just, I flew in yesterday from New York, sat on a plane for five and a half hours and I went and my back hurt toward the end of that and I was sitting there going, the shape of the seat feels good now, but would it after five hours?
- [32:09]
A
It doesn't.
- [32:09]
B
I don't know the answer to that question.
- [32:10]
A
It doesn't. You notice the lack of the longer.
- [32:12]
B
And the other thing is that the adjustment knob for the seat to change the angle of the seat is right in line with the B pillar. And if your hands and wrists are any bigger than ours, it's weird. You're not adjusting it.
- [32:24]
A
Yeah, it's weird. And then the back seat seat, which in the pickup truck, if you recall, was fucking laughable because the cab is really short to have like a bed. And so the back, it's a vertical. So the back seat is like so vertical like you cannot fit in it. In the pickup truck. They might as well ditch the back doors and just make an extended cab and have the seats fold forward or something. But like, that's just crazy. In this one. The back seat is okay, the legroom's okay, but it doesn't. It's still very upright. It doesn't recline. It also doesn't fold down flat. It's fixed. There's no.
- [33:07]
B
Oh, I didn't. Yes. Really?
- [33:08]
A
It doesn't fold forward and it doesn't fold back. And there's no fold down armrest in the middle. Again, $95,000 and the seats are made by like Recaro, I think.
- [33:20]
B
Wow. You can't change the angle and you can't fold it down. So if you own this thing and.
- [33:24]
A
You want to move a table, seats are made by a car. Don't hold me. I think I thought I saw Recaro on there somewhere. But like, but I just. It doesn't. Again, for this much money, you know, like, I get that boutique vehicles made in small volume and the actual quality, as you noticed as well today, Zach.
- [33:47]
B
These things are screwed. They are, right?
- [33:49]
A
So this thing is. It's not like they don't know how to make a good seat like Fisker. Like, they, like, they've never even tried. Their seats were terrible. But. But like, I don't know, there's a. There is a bunch of stuff where it's like, yes, it's boutique. Yes, it's analog. Yes, it's got a lot of things about it that do make it sort of pseudo exotic. But there's other shit where it's like, for this much money, dude, lumbar, a back seat, a rear seat that has some kind of adjustment.
- [34:18]
B
So Top Gear magazine said the rear seats, the bench does fold flat.
- [34:22]
A
It Does.
- [34:22]
B
So maybe we didn't find that thing.
- [34:24]
A
We have to go out. We'll have to go out and look again. I couldn't find a lever anywhere.
- [34:29]
B
It may not lean back because that's something that's kind of recent to cars where the back seat is adjustable to lean back for comfort. Folding flat forward has been around for a long, long time.
- [34:38]
A
Yeah.
- [34:38]
B
But I just like.
- [34:40]
A
There's nothing behind it.
- [34:41]
B
Right.
- [34:42]
A
There's. There isn't a good reason that this can't have some adjustability.
- [34:46]
B
This has a lot of the ergonomics of like a G wagon.
- [34:50]
A
Yeah.
- [34:50]
B
Back seat, not a lot of legroom. Yeah. Trunk not that deep. Although maybe I'd have to look the measurements. Like not that deep. I like the split tailgate door. I think it's clever. So it open. Doesn't need as much room or a.
- [35:03]
A
What was. Was it a Bronco? I think it's the Bronco. The Bronco had like a crazy. You need an enormous amount of room to open that door.
- [35:10]
B
That and the G wagon.
- [35:11]
A
Was it the Bronco or the. I think it was. I think it was the Bronco. Anyway, Go on. Sorry.
- [35:17]
B
But it does. I mean, now this thing had a thousand miles on it. I think it felt really, really solid even compared to when we've gotten wrangler vehicles. Just. It feels like the tolerances are really, really good.
- [35:29]
A
Yeah.
- [35:31]
B
Bouncing up and down all these rocks. Like the only. The only wiggle sound in the entire car was the keychain.
- [35:37]
A
Yeah.
- [35:37]
B
Which I. And also I got in me nuts through that keychain. Click, click, click. I almost stopped to take the thing off. Also it has a key which is interesting. Which is interesting.
- [35:47]
A
Yeah.
- [35:47]
B
You simple.
- [35:48]
A
You put the key in. That's one less. One less ecu. Is that without having that thing. Yeah.
- [35:53]
B
Yeah. That was the only sound in it.
- [35:55]
A
No, I like. I, I don't. I like the key. I like the toggles and the analog switches. I like the manual seats. But I just. There's just. There's some things that I think that for that much money. Now this one also had all the off road stuff. It has the winch, which we didn't use.
- [36:14]
B
That's the most expensive option.
- [36:15]
A
The winch is the most expensive option. It's like four grand or something. And it's got. Oh, I started down this road. This is the wagon. There's also the quartermaster is the truck. But then confusingly, trial master is an off road trim package. Excuse me. An off road equipment package that can be applied to any of them. So you could have a Quartermaster Trialmaster, which is dumb. Ineos naming scheme is really gonna go off the rails next year when they come out with the Fusilier, which is one of the worst car names.
- [36:51]
B
That is terrible.
- [36:53]
A
Oh, hey, by the way, speaking of just sidebar, fun fact, fun fact, fun fact for everybody today. Did you know that Even though in 1958America had about half the population it has now, during the same two year period of time, Ford sold almost twice as many Edsels as Tesla has sold Cybertrucks, a car that is like the.
- [37:20]
B
Universally, the universally known failed car.
- [37:24]
A
They sold twice as many of them to half as many people during the same period of time as the Cybertruck.
- [37:30]
B
Wow.
- [37:30]
A
That's how bad the cybertruck is a flop.
- [37:34]
B
I mean, there were fewer cars available.
- [37:36]
A
Good point.
- [37:36]
B
So there were fewer cars available.
- [37:38]
A
Good point. Yeah, yeah.
- [37:39]
B
Trial Master. Yeah, there's the Quartermaster Trial Master.
- [37:42]
A
Yeah. So you could have a Quartermaster Fieldmaster or you could have a Quartermaster Trial Master. They must have had Infinity's people on the name. That's just crazy.
- [37:53]
B
Quartermaster Field. Just. Just end with Field. That's fine.
- [37:56]
A
Quartermaster Trials. Trials.
- [37:58]
B
Trials. Not Trials. Trials.
- [38:00]
A
Good.
- [38:01]
B
And you'd keep black edition. You would not shorten it.
- [38:04]
A
Right. So, I mean, look, if anyone out there is considering an old Defender, and I don't mean like 1960s old, but I mean like any of those fucking crazy expensive, like V8, swap defenders, any of that kind of shit, skip all of that. Just skip straight over that garbage and just get one of these. Yeah, I mean, if you think you want a Defender, I can almost guarantee you you actually want this instead.
- [38:35]
B
This had I rested my arm on the armrest on the left side.
- [38:39]
A
It's meant for people who have left arms.
- [38:40]
B
Meant for people who have arms toward the outside of the vehicle on either side. Yeah, it drives nice. And I think, you know, the ball steering, as annoying as it is for road stuff, is true of the Wrangler as well. When you are driving off road and there's a lot of kickback on the tires, it mutes that pretty well. There's not a lot. Like, it reduces the chances of you breaking your fingers. But keep your thumbs out of the spokes anyway.
- [39:02]
A
Yeah, I mean, that's true. I mean, and it's better built than one of those old. The comp for this is old Defender, not new Range Rover or maybe Hopped Up Wrangler. I mean, if you were considering One of those 75 or $80,000 hopped up Wranglers, I think your Money goes further. Buying one of these, I think you.
- [39:25]
B
I think as long as you're driving on the road more. Because the hopped up wrangler will have things like the electronic sway bars, it will be more suited for serious off roading. And the engine, if it's still. The Pentastar V6 is also a simpler, more known thing. But this kind of reminds me at that price point, this is like the shop foreman drives this like the F150 Platinum Edition. It looks off roady. It is off roady to a degree, but it has a slightly different badge. It looks different. It looks like the old Defender but drives more like a new car.
- [39:58]
A
You got to explain to a lot of people that it's not a Defender.
- [40:01]
B
That's true.
- [40:03]
A
I had to spend a lot of time.
- [40:04]
B
Did you get approached a lot?
- [40:05]
A
Yeah. Oh, what's up with the Defender? Like it's not. What is it? It's named after.
- [40:10]
B
Made by Chevron.
- [40:11]
A
Yeah. I mean like, what if Chevron made a car?
- [40:14]
B
That's what INEOS is. INEOS is like a petroleum company. So it's like if this is the.
- [40:18]
A
Chevron Grenadier gas company car, like everybody. Yeah.
- [40:24]
B
But they made a good product. I mean, I think we are. We're pointing out the details in this tiny problems, which is what we should do. And for first effort, as we've talked about. Oh, yeah, very impressive.
- [40:36]
A
Honestly, if you look at this car and just looking at it, you go, I like that. You probably will like, you actually probably will. The only things that would keep me from buying it, you know, if I really liked how it looked and the idea of it is the ADAs and maybe the seats.
- [40:53]
B
I wonder if, if US lobbyists or companies or something can make an argument for. If a car is imported from Europe, can we have a different ADAS interaction system that's quicker or you know, than they have over there. If they can add a little probationary.
- [41:10]
A
I don't think they have to put that in here for America. That shit's volatile.
- [41:13]
B
I think people like having lane keep assist. They like having those features in US cars also. But if the. If we can access those controls and disable them more quickly than Europe law allows.
- [41:23]
A
Yeah. Or just have them stay off if you turn it off. I mean the answer is just to have it or default to wherever you left it. That's.
- [41:30]
B
I mean, that's the thing.
- [41:31]
A
Yeah. A car. Imagine setting anything in your car. The fucking radio, the memory seats, whatever. And every time you get back in the car, it's not where you left it. That's fucking crazy. That's terrible.
- [41:46]
B
Yeah, true.
- [41:47]
A
Who would want a car like that?
- [41:48]
B
You need adas memory function. You hit entertainment.
- [41:50]
A
Oh my God. Tie it to the memory seat. Sure, bro. Your big boy needs 8 ass off your short woman. This is. I'm not being sexist. I'm talking about my own wife. Your short woman in memory 3 really fucking needs it.
- [42:05]
B
Yeah, I mean there's profiles like the, you know, M cars have all that stuff, so why not have an 8 ass profile? Patent pending. Zach Clapman. That's right. Smoking tire.
- [42:14]
A
They don't. I kept saying to like Aston, like, how come, you know, you've got tour, sport, track and then individual. I said, well, why don't you just make it so you can have individual ADAS settings in your individual drive mode. So I start the car and I go into individual and everything's where I want it. And they said it's like a not. Not enough, you know, button clicks or whatever to. It's got to be by law. Oh yeah, there's minimum three.
- [42:40]
B
Yeah, you know what I mean?
- [42:41]
A
Anyway, we didn't break it, but we did scratch the skid plates a little bit.
- [42:46]
B
We peed pants.
- [42:47]
A
We peed pants and definitely did a little scratchy, scratchy in the underside, but that's what it's there for.
- [42:53]
B
And I don't know how much lean, you know, one of these vehicles can take. I'm sure if we were, maybe we're the pro off road or coach or something, they go, no, no, you got a couple degrees left. Yeah, that was enough for us.
- [43:03]
A
That's like that Ron White joke. Like, I don't know how many of them it would take to beat me up, but I know how many they had. Oh, and the last thing about it, dude, you know what I did experience on the highway? The funhouse mirror effect at night because all the windows are vertical like my old Hummer. I've told this story, but the light bounces around in there.
- [43:26]
B
Oh my gosh.
- [43:27]
A
And so if you have a. You see cars in the back window that are being reflected from the front window. So like I was following a white Mini Cooper and I look in the rear view mirror and it shows me in my back window, the taillights, the end of a white Mini Cooper.
- [43:53]
B
And you're like, man, that guy's going faster than reverse.
- [43:55]
A
And that used to happen in my Hummer. And it happens in this too. When the windows are perfectly vertical, you get Funhaus mirrors.
- [44:01]
B
Whoa.
- [44:01]
A
Yeah, it's a Little creepy. So thanks to Ineos for letting us have a go for a week. We appreciate it.
- [44:09]
B
Yeah, we do.
- [44:10]
A
It was a fun morning out there till I thought I lost my phone. We had to go look for it.
- [44:14]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [44:15]
A
And then it was in the car the whole time. I mean, well, it was hidden very well in the car, but we thought it fell out of the car and we went looking for it. It was on the way back to where we were going and then it wasn't there. So I logged into Zach's phone used to find my iPhone. I made my phone play a little song and the song came from the car. There we go. It was excellent, excellent day. What else we have? Oh, so don't get political, but did you see that fucking hair? Fuhrer wants to have an IndyCar race at the National Mall in Washington.
- [44:51]
B
What?
- [44:51]
A
Yeah.
- [44:52]
B
I did not see that.
- [44:53]
A
So first, you know, first they want to do UFC on the White House lawn, and now they're talking about having an IndyCar race in Washington D.C. they planned the Freedom 250 around the National Mall. It's part of the. This, this fucking. This is like in Gladiator 200 Days of Games. This is like the straight up Commodus 200 Days of Games era of now. I'm not inherently against having a Nash a street race in Washington D.C. that's okay, right? The fuck not have a little IndyCar race. Sure.
- [45:34]
B
I mean, street circuits are fun and they're exciting. Okay, so it would be like around here. Ish.
- [45:39]
A
My guess is it would be. Yeah. I don't know what the distances are. Yeah. Where does that. Bottom, Independence Ave. Southwest. Does it come bring. Oh, yeah, it comes around. Wow. So it probably will connect somewhere and then go up, you know, Constitution Avenue back around, right?
- [45:57]
B
Yeah. I mean, that could be fast.
- [45:58]
A
That could be kind of a neat track.
- [45:59]
B
Well, it's like a gentle sweeper. Sweeper.
- [46:03]
A
Yeah. I mean, maybe they chicane it somewhere. If you go around the Lincoln Memorial.
- [46:06]
B
If you take a hard right in here.
- [46:09]
A
Yeah. And go Lincoln Memorial. And then north there. Yeah. Or on the angle. On the angle. Maybe on the 45 there. That could be cool.
- [46:17]
B
Look, I gotta say, out of all the things he has decreed in the last year, this is probably my favorite. This was okay because if someone got the permits independently from him, it was like, we're having a race here and here's what it's gonna look like. I'd say if the track's cool, that's pretty cool, right?
- [46:32]
A
Yeah. You can't make something shitty just because Trump did it.
- [46:36]
B
Yes, that's what I'm trying to do. That. And it's probably easier to get those permits when it's been decreed by the great leaders.
- [46:43]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [46:44]
B
Which is. Now that's the aspect I don't like.
- [46:46]
A
Cause he's in construction. He could just waive permits, right?
- [46:50]
B
Well, you just don't pay the permit. Just go ahead anyway.
- [46:52]
A
Just do it. Whatever.
- [46:53]
B
All right. I think I need to see the track map of what they would do. Man, you could.
- [46:58]
A
Well, you're gonna turn right on Trump Avenue and then turn left onto Trump Place and then go straight down Trump way and then he's gonna. And then you break at the Trump S's.
- [47:09]
B
You got the Baron chicane.
- [47:10]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You do a lapwing.
- [47:11]
B
You should call it the chicane. Because we're gonna get demonetized because it's causing a little trouble.
- [47:15]
A
Yeah, it is.
- [47:16]
B
You know, it just could throw off your race. We're gonna get no views on this video.
- [47:20]
A
Now turn left at the S's.
- [47:23]
B
Yeah. Oh. Anyway, but there's no rules. You can just go straight across those and there will be no flag.
- [47:32]
A
Questions. We should get to that.
- [47:33]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [47:34]
A
I don't have. I legitimately don't have anything else.
- [47:39]
B
Yeah, I didn't drive anything this weekend.
- [47:40]
A
I drove my own cars. How about that? I put 250 miles on my spider this weekend and I reminded myself that it now has 7,500 miles and I need an oil change. So it's gonna go to BBI next week for an oil change for the eight hour surgery. Yeah. Dude, that's crazy. How long fucking oil changes take in spiders? That's insane. Let's go to the people. Of course. Who are these people? Patreon.com thesmokingtirepodcast they're the people that support this show in good times and in bad with their dollars every month keeping the show rolling down the river. And for those dollars, they get to listen to the show live. If not live, they get to listen to the show early. They get to ask their questions for the show, which we will get to in just a second. They get extra show every month and they get exclusive access to merch collabs and things like the notice canyon watches that we are doing and patrons get them first. All righty. Queer Shifting gears I'm trying to make a list of fun. Wait. I'm trying to make a list of fun vintage, sporty runabouts for Cleveland, Ohio. Previously had an MG And a Boxster. Currently top of the list is a Honda S800. An old Mini.
- [49:04]
B
Mini.
- [49:05]
A
What else should I throw on the list? And a Manx feels a bit too weather dependent. Well, how about your Beatles then? I mean there's lots of room in Beetle land. Not weather dependent. If you haven't had a Beetle, I would throw that in there. I mean old British shit, right? Your Triumphs, your Austin Healeys. I mean you had an MGA, so you know about the. That S800 is a great call.
- [49:33]
B
It is. The coupe I just looked up, that's a pretty cool looking thing.
- [49:35]
A
Oh, those are pretty rad. Yeah, dude, you know what I just saw that was amazing? It was a Triumph TR4 coach body by Vignale. It was at the Manhattan Beach Cars and Coffee. I'd never seen one before. It was very pretty. It was an Italian styled Triumph, I believe it was a TR4. They made like 300 of them or something. Do you see that? It's like Triumph TR4 Italiano or some shit like that. But the body's by Vignale V I G N A L E. And it sort of has a very like Maserati ish kind of look. Maybe to find one.
- [50:14]
B
Triumph Italia.
- [50:15]
A
Yeah, Italia. That might be it. Yeah, that top left, Triumph Italia. That's it. Sorry, that look, I mean that is.
- [50:25]
B
That'S like a baby Aston.
- [50:26]
A
It's like a little baby Maserati Sebring or that.
- [50:28]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [50:30]
A
Pretty cool.
- [50:30]
B
This is really nice in the back.
- [50:32]
A
This, this thing was red, tan, looked great. Had the fitted luggage in there. That's a hot little item. Yeah, if you can find yourself a.
- [50:40]
B
Yeah, three quarter view.
- [50:43]
A
Yeah, apparently they're pretty rare. Only made a couple hundred of them, but. Fucking cool. Yeah, I like that. How about something a little more modern? How about an Audi TT first gen? That's a good baseball sporty runabout. That could be awesome. PCAR photos. Do you prefer the look of the Miata RF over the standard soft top? And does the RF's added weight noticeably change the driving experience?
- [51:09]
B
Yes, I do and no, I don't think it really does.
- [51:12]
A
I, I do not prefer the look of the retractable hardtop. I do not think it significantly changes the driving experience. However, I think it's still fucking loud in there. Considering it's a real roof.
- [51:28]
B
It totally is.
- [51:28]
A
It doesn't knock the noise back that much.
- [51:30]
B
It weighs 113 pounds more and I think it changes the noise by like a decibel or two. So I like It, I think it looks cool and I like the security of the hardtail top versus a soft top and more durable over long term ownership.
- [51:47]
A
Yeah. Duffel Shuffle retirement club recently learned about the Diesel powered Audi R8 prototype. Didn't that have the V12 diesel in it out of the they were using in the Q7? I think it did. Diesel R8. What crazy diesel engine in a supercar combo. Would you like to see? Interesting question and, and interesting thought exercise. Personally, a diesel engine in a supercar is. Does not interest me at all.
- [52:16]
B
It doesn't diesel. I like the torque of it and the long legs. My brain goes to like Veyron if you want to drive 2,000 miles in one tank of fuel. But if you have a supercar, you have supercar gas card money, then just keep putting high octane in it, you know, it just doesn't give you anything.
- [52:32]
A
It doesn't sound as good, it doesn't rev. The power band that it makes is nothing. Not the kind of power band that I enjoy in a sports car. I mean, I think Audi's strategy at Le Mans with the diesel cars was fucking unbelievable.
- [52:45]
B
Sure.
- [52:46]
A
I mean it worked for years, but.
- [52:48]
B
They won races with it, but they did not put it in their supercar.
- [52:50]
A
Yeah, I mean, I think that says a lot. I mean the thing that the engine. The race car driver drives the race car fast, like whatever it is. The race car driver's not there to have fun. And I am there to have fun. I'm spending a lot of money on this car to have fun. And I'm guessing the reason they never actually made it is because it probably wasn't very fun.
- [53:09]
B
Imagine the rev sounded.
- [53:11]
A
I sucked. It probably wasn't that great. Like, I think that's a sad truth of diesels in sports cars. It's just like they're not for that. I mean, having said that. Yeah. What would I like? I do think you could put like a Cummins or like I saw a Duramax in like an old Cadillac. Yes, like that. There's something to that. Where if you have an old cruiser, you could diesel it up and it could be cool.
- [53:43]
B
Lead sleds, old hot rods. Those are cool. And I still like the M cars in Europe that are diesel, I think for like.
- [53:50]
A
Oh yeah.
- [53:50]
B
Remember those? Like the M550D? Sure, whatever.
- [53:53]
A
No, I don't mind that as a. As a. That's like a. Cause that's a highway car.
- [53:57]
B
Exactly.
- [53:57]
A
That's like I'm doing 30,000 miles a year and that's all right. I just, like, not for a supercar.
- [54:04]
B
Gatt Farah, That's a good one.
- [54:06]
A
I've been thinking about buying a gun. I mean, I have a shotgun, but like a gun gun. I don't want to be thinking like that. I don't want to. Fuck it. I'm not a gun. I'm not like, I have a gun guy.
- [54:16]
B
If it gets to there, just swing by your friend's house.
- [54:20]
A
I know.
- [54:21]
B
Borrow one or two. If it.
- [54:23]
A
That's true. If it does, I just. I know where to go.
- [54:26]
B
You have the sailing knowledge and your friend has the other.
- [54:30]
A
Oh, for fucking sure. Sure. Shit really goes down, you know. Guess no boat is safe.
- [54:36]
B
Look, we Voltron, we're fucking going.
- [54:42]
A
Okay? Gat Farrah says, regarding the Lemonade debate. Okay, this is. Now, I don't know if it's a debate, but this is a company that is offering to provide discounted insurance based on the fact that it says that if you use Tesla fsd, you are safer and therefore your rates go down. And we've sort of pretty much implied that that's not actually based in any existing science. Question is, wouldn't an insurance company that has a telematics platform be ideally positioned to produce their own data about FSD versus non FSD safety? I think there is actually an argument for that. If Lemonade knows about driving behavior via their own data and can then correlate to FSD vs non FSD miles and compared to all cars in the data set, surely they'd be able to draw a good conclusion to support their FSD discount. For the record, I think this is tech pro accelerationist bs Also, I think you're right here. I think if they did have telematics and connected telemetry that really did work and could produce that type of a test and could get it in enough cars and have it running over a period of time, they absolutely could produce their own data. But it doesn't seem like that's what they're trying to do. It seems like they're trying to hype fsd.
- [56:08]
B
Yeah, we'll see. Real quick, someone mentioned CASTOR in terms of the ineos and I found INEOS forum and people said that in stock, this is 2024 cars, the stock vehicles only had 2 degrees of caster. So one person added 1.5 degrees and it made a big difference in their steering response. Really? So remember the. Who made that Volvo we drove? The P 1800 thing?
- [56:30]
A
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
- [56:31]
B
Zero caster. Terrible.
- [56:34]
A
We didn't even mention it. But the 2026 vehicle which we were driving did have like a list of like 60 updates there were then there and some of them were big and some of them were small. So there was like updates to the climate control system, updates to like all kinds of little stuff. But there were a couple of updates to the steering little suspension bits that changed the behavior I think based on those type of complaints from those earlier cars. And so although I don't have an apples to apples comparison in order to say like yes, this is better, I think it's a little better than when I drove it last time.
- [57:11]
B
I think it is too but it's.
- [57:12]
A
Still not as good as if it was a rack and pinion system. Yeah, Kendrick Lamark 4 supra it's pretty good. If OEMs could set up a completely blind test meaning journalists got in a car and there was no badging and no way to tell what brand of car you're in, what cars would over perform and what cars would underperform.
- [57:36]
B
Talking about performance driving or like in terms of people's review of that car.
- [57:42]
A
I mean I don't know if they mean if it means driving or like touching stuff and quality. I mean cars that would over perform driving is probably like Genesis actually in terms of touching and in terms of driving is probably Genesis cars that would underperform form non m BMWs. Now I think if you got in a fucking like a fully loaded up, I don't know Elantra versus a BMW 2 series, the front wheel drive 1, the 4 I bet you couldn't tell much difference at all.
- [58:19]
B
Yeah, they both have lots of screen. Yeah, that's true. Yeah I think the Cadillacs would underperform because I think Genesis and Hyundai and other they've gotten closer to those higher priced vehicles and Cadillac has a lot of the same like hard buttons which I really appreciate but because they don't have the fancy sparkle sometimes which is detrimental like Mercedes, you might think it's lower market.
- [58:41]
A
Sure. If you're talking dynamics the Cadillacs would probably over perform. Yes, very true.
- [58:46]
B
I was thinking just interior design.
- [58:48]
A
Re education through working on shitboxes. New assignment for the patrons. I would like your kitschy usernames to be based on Rise against songs for the next three months. Please let's work on that. Re Education through Labor is an excellent song. Tim micklrath was at the Tom Morello concert.
- [59:07]
B
The one in Minneapolis.
- [59:08]
A
Yeah. With Springsteen and shit.
- [59:09]
B
Oh cool.
- [59:10]
A
They did a couple Rise against tunes and they also did Misery by Soul Asylum which is A great song. A few weeks ago, asked for advice, debating between the 981 Boxster S and the E92 M3. And your recommendation came down to don't get back seats if you don't need them Then my wife and I just learned we have a need for back seats in the near future. Congratulations. There we go. Is an E90 M3 manual a better M5 than an E39 M5?
- [59:43]
B
I think in many ways.
- [59:44]
A
In many ways? Yes, in many ways, yes.
- [59:46]
B
In terms of reliability, cost of ownership, twisty, dynamic, fun. Yes, all those things.
- [59:52]
A
It's a nine years newer car. It's a second generation engine compared to the M5's engine, I would say yes, it is a better car. Yeah, the E39 M5 is probably a better collectible. But yeah, I think a four door M3E90 is a good choice. And congratulations. Sweden love. Okay, Looking for tires for a Saab 9000 Turbo. You know when the last time I saw a fucking 9000 Turbo was out? Saab's don't exist in LA.
- [60:27]
B
Yeah, they don't.
- [60:29]
A
I saw one 900 at Manhattan Beach. Cars and coffee. Non turbo, no wing. We just. They were on the east coast, they were everywhere. They just don't exist here. Do you have an opinion on quote, classic tires versus a regular modern high quality all season? Is this a cosmetic thing for the.
- [60:50]
B
Purists because they point out that these classic tires are more expensive than a similar as tire?
- [60:57]
A
Yeah. So here's the good thing about the classic tires is they're used modern rubber. Right. It's the old shape and style and it's modern rubber. So for a car like a Countach or an 80s, an exotic car or a specialty car, or as you pointed out, if you want the look or if you want the car to drive, kind of like how it would have but with the better compound. So it'll grip better but with the tread pattern it'll drive in the wet and snow like it would have back then. And so if you want to keep it period correct, pay the cost to be the boss. Right. And these tires are made in smaller quantities so they're going to be more expensive.
- [61:43]
B
But also the rim size. They mentioned the Michelin. Yeah, they mentioned the Michelin XZX. It only comes in a 12 inch and a 15 inch rim size.
- [61:52]
A
So it comes either for like a mini Cooper. The 12 would be a mini and then 15 is gonna be a lot of. Well, also my Countach is 15s. I mean my Manx is 15s. Like the Ferrari 308 is 15s. A lot of 80s cars are 15s. 70s and 80s cars. In my opinion. If you don't care about the look, and you do care about the price, just get regular tires. No one's gonna be like, ew, bro, your car. You put new tires on your car. Like it's. Speaking of which to talk. I'm just, I should get front row parking forever. I mean, I'm plugging Manhattan beach cars and coffee. But there was a guy, there was a fox body 93 cobra. And as I do, because I can't help myself, squat down, look at the tires. And the guy, the guy goes, they're original. I go from 93. And he goes, yeah. I go, did you drive this here? He goes, yeah. I go, you really shouldn't be doing that. And he looked at me like, okay, buddy, wherever I go, look, no, man, nobody gives a shit that this has original tires on it. 30 and if you really care that much, take them off and put them in a bag. You're one pothole away from spinning this thing into a telephone pole.
- [63:05]
B
You know, a blowout.
- [63:06]
A
I mean, the tire just shred 30 year old tires. This guy's driving around. What are you doing?
- [63:13]
B
I think people don't know. People just literally don't know.
- [63:16]
A
Bragging about it. Lucky to be alive. Yama habibi, if you had to prescribe driving homework to every driving enthusiast, what cars should every enthusiast experience driving at least once in their life? I mean, there's a, there's a, that's an easy one. You've got your Miata, you've got your Mustangs, 80s, 90s Mustangs. You've got your Civic. You drive a great Civic. Everyone should drive like an early 2000s Subaru WRX or STI. Also an Evo. Everyone should try a gated manual for all Ferrari. Everybody should be, should at least be driven, if not drive in a McLaren in anger, like a 750 on a track or 7.65 on a track. And you'd be shocked that things like that are allowed for sale on the street at all. And everyone should do quarter mile pull in like a lucid Sapphire or Taycan Turbo GT to really understand what they're selling people in terms of. And everyone should do a quarter mile pull in a Rivian quad motor and then have to slam on the brakes at the quarter mile just to see what they're actually selling people over there. And you'll be like, that shouldn't be legal.
- [64:57]
B
I think you should also hopefully get a quarter mile pull in something with a big turbo just to see the difference in generational horsepower.
- [65:04]
A
Everyone should try a model T. Everyone should try a three on the tree column. A three on the tree shift. That'll get you going.
- [65:14]
B
Old stuff, new stuff. All mid engine, rear engine, front start with that criteria for sure.
- [65:20]
A
Yeah, that's a good question. Everyone. The bottom line is like as many different things as possible. Yeah, even Flowmaster.
- [65:29]
B
That one's great.
- [65:30]
A
That's excellent.
- [65:31]
B
Even flow with a resonant chamber. What are they? Wish I knew more of their product.
- [65:41]
A
Oh, the cops all know. So they chasing us away. What's a more timeless modern era design? The last generation lexus GS or C6?
- [65:56]
B
C6.
- [65:57]
A
I have a question. Is that question set up? Because those are like particularly not timeless designs.
- [66:04]
B
I think the last gen GS is a good car.
- [66:07]
A
It is, but timeless. No, no, not with that shredder grill.
- [66:10]
B
Exactly.
- [66:10]
A
What are we doing?
- [66:11]
B
That was like the first step in what many of us call a bad front end design. Yeah, that was the beginning of shredder.
- [66:16]
A
The timeless GS is the second gen GS. The one that where it was the GS4, the GS400, the 4i car. That motherfucker is timeless. That one top left. The GS 400.
- [66:31]
B
Yeah.
- [66:32]
A
You want to talk about a fucking exceptional car. No notes. That GS400, that thing was fast as fuck. Great interior design, aged beautifully, couldn't kill it. Fabulous car.
- [66:46]
B
Yeah.
- [66:46]
A
The six cylinder ones you could turn into drift car cars because they had two Js. But I'm going to go with neither. Even Flowmaster.
- [66:55]
B
Oh well. I'm going C6 out of the two.
- [66:57]
A
I mean I guess C6, but the C6 is A. I think, I don't think.
- [67:01]
B
I think the interior ruins the exterior. I think the. I think the exterior profile front is fantastic. And then you look inside and you go it's basically a C5. And that sucks. So this is a little confusing.
- [67:16]
A
This is weird. Indycar sell well. Indycar outdcar okay. Do you think most modern enthusiast cars are doomed to sell well for the first years and then die off and be killed? It seems that people want one, but then everyone gets one and then they die off and they don't do a new one right around its time for a refresh or a new generation killing or neutering the car for the next generation? I mean the problem is is that people just can't fucking afford cars. Enthusiast cars are luxury purchases. Whether it's a second car or driving a sports car as your main car instead of something more practical. And so when budgets get tight, people go, I'm not going to get the second car. I can't afford to finance it. I'm going to wait and buy a used one or whatever sports. But I'm writing a column next month for Road and Track about income inequality and how it's fucking up cars because we have the inverse right now. The car market in terms of sports cars is inverse for what it should be. There should be 30 different options for the masses and enthusiasts to buy reasonably, excuse me, reasonably affordable sports cars. Instead they're. There's five cars for everybody and 30 different choices. If you can spend one to six million dollars on cars, which is like that's not how it should be, that's crazy. There should be fewer and fewer things to choose from as you get higher and higher up the. Because there's fewer and fewer people to serve. But we have an opposite. This is what they call the K shaped economy. We have the opposite of that happening right now and that's fucked up. So yeah, I mean everyone wants to build a sports car, so they try to build a sports car. Subaru partners with fucking Toyota, Toyota partners with BMW. There's partnerships because no one could do it on their own. They build a sports car and then it sells in very small numbers because there's a very small number of people that are in that. What used to be called middle class that, that, that can have a second car but that that second car isn't going to be a McLaren. So yeah, it sucks. Rolex Lt Lariat, King Ranch. I do not purchase things with leather, used or new as I am one of those damn vegans. Okay, what are your thoughts on Porsche Race tech's interior over leather or overall thoughts on quality synthetic? So I have racetex in my Spider. I like it for the seats. I hate it on the steering wheel and shifter and I'm going to change my steering wheel to leather. Sorry. Vegan. Having said that, I don't hate synthetic materials. I love a great cloth Volvo wool, Rivian's use of cloths. They're not using real leather, whatever their leather is.
- [70:30]
B
And there's a lot of synthetic leathers now that look and feel very close to the real stuff. And if you had like a cloth insert with the, you know, vegan leather exterior which is made of plastic or whatever. But I think it looks amazing and feels good too.
- [70:43]
A
Yeah, most of the of the higher end alternative leathers feel really nice now. You get into a Bentley or something. And damn, now you fucking serious Leather. That's a different story. But yeah, I don't like on the steering wheel or the shifter, but other than that, I do like it. Yeah. Kojikoji. In cars where you're stuck between two wheel sizes, where you have a choice of two wheel sizes, how do you personally go about picking which size to go with? Do you downsize for lighter weight and cheaper tires? Or if you can get the bigger size in a forged wheel where weight is an issue, do you opt for that? It's a dilemma I'm struggling with right now, actually. Sometimes you can. The bigger A19 might be lighter than the 18 because there might be more wheel and less tire. Could in some cases be. If you have very light wheels, for.
- [71:45]
B
Instance, you also can fit larger brakes sometimes, depending on how the interior dimensions of that wheel. And that could be beneficial. I would always opt for smaller wheel, more sidewall, both from an aesthetics point, because I think it looks cool on basically anything, and also because of the roads around here. So it depends on where you live and I think your aesthetic, style and what you're doing with the car.
- [72:05]
A
Yeah, I agree. I mean, if you have bumpy roads, you want sidewall. If your roads are great and you just like the look, possibly depending on the car, you might get maybe a little bit sharper, turn in with the bigger wheel. Cause you'll have less sidewall flex, but.
- [72:23]
B
You can get that. You can get a more aggressive tire.
- [72:26]
A
Yeah, you could. If that's what you wanted. You could still do that. Yeah. Yeah. Federal Investigator pretty good. Were single clutch transmissions such as Lambo's E gear and Ferrari's F1 considered bad when they were new, or were they considered a revolutionary new technology at the time? Both.
- [72:46]
B
Yeah, both.
- [72:49]
A
Go watch some episodes of Top Gear. Go find the original episodes of top gear on YouTube or on. On Hulu or Prime or wherever the fuck they are of Clarkson reviewing, like the Ferrari 360 or the Aston Vanquish or the Mercy Lambo. They're just shitting on the gearbox and talking about how terrible it is the whole time. And when we were driving those cars new at the rental company, we fucking hated them. They would blow. The hydraulic pumps would blow. They'd roast the clutches like crazy to the original ones, like the Ferrari 355 and the Vanquish. You were really supposed to tug the paddles and put the car into neutral when you came to a traffic light. You weren't supposed to sit there in first gear the whole time. You could Wear out the throw out bearing. That's silly.
- [73:49]
B
But I also. And I was more of a consumer. Well, not a consumer. I was a valet. But my exposure to it was. I thought it was exciting because it was different and it was a cool thing to have paddles on the car. And when it kind of worked, it felt cool, like the smg. Now I know it's super slow, but at the time it was just such an interesting idea that I thought it was exciting, but it was still bad.
- [74:09]
A
The idea of it was like, I can see where you're going with this. And at the time it was, well, this works in race cars because it works, you know, if you're flat on the floorboard, then it was reasonably quick. It was just clunky around town. And you go, okay, well, this is race car technology. It's not great in the street cars. And I think people at the time just wanted what the race cars had and that was fancier. Plus, I think Americans liked automatic. I think Americans just like automatic transmissions and wanted to drive automatic transmissions.
- [74:44]
B
Oh, cool.
- [74:45]
A
I thought they were shit at the time, but don't worry, they're still shitty today. Gila Monster. Greg. What is that? What's the new 911 Rally GT?
- [74:56]
B
This is the 911.
- [74:58]
A
This is a rally homologation kit for the coffee car. Oh, so they've. They're selling a fucking rally car. That is awesome. I need, I don't need to have any thoughts. That's awesome. Why would that. Why? That's. How is that not awesome? That's awesome.
- [75:16]
B
Yeah, I was curious. Oh, top speed.
- [75:19]
A
How can I just get a queen a better photo? Is the car road like legal? That's a good question. Yes. With rally homologation, the Rally GT is road legal car for competition use only. That's awesome.
- [75:32]
B
Here we go. Biggest changes based on the cup car.
- [75:35]
A
Adapted for rally use. Features a modified roll cage to carry a spare wheel. Rally specific suspension, underbody protection, as well as a co driver seat.
- [75:44]
B
Handbrake, Misspelled brake. You misspelled break.
- [75:46]
A
Yeah. And four identical rally tires. Tires. The powerful engine, sequential gearbox with modified ratios, ABS and traction control. That's pretty awesome. How do I drive this? We must. We must drive this. It's street legal.
- [76:04]
B
Yeah. Do a target with it.
- [76:07]
A
That's very, very, very sick. Yeah. We have to figure out how to drive this.
- [76:15]
B
They're listening.
- [76:15]
A
I know. Well, we must. That's so cool. Yeah.
- [76:20]
B
It'll be a good time.
- [76:20]
A
That is all that is right and good in the world. Off Road sports cars are just better. Carbon monocoque and ball torture.
- [76:30]
B
So good.
- [76:33]
A
That's so funny. One of the most boring cars I've ever owned is a Saab 9:3. And yet I couldn't leave the house with at least one Saab nerd approaching me to chew my ear off for an hour. That's very funny. In your experience, what's the most enthusiast. What's the most or most surprising enthusiast? Nerd Magnet car. Skylines.
- [76:55]
B
Yeah.
- [76:56]
A
I mean, you can't get out of a gas station because everyone's.
- [76:59]
B
I'm glad you mentioned that because Sarah showed me a video this weekend. It's like a TikTok thing, but the caption, it's someone with a red R32. And the caption says, like, quote, you know that girls aren't going to approach you for that car, right? It's just dudes and. And it's like. I know. And it's just footage of dudes giving thumbs up and stuff. And I went, wow. It would be really funny if there's. I mean, of course there's gay car dudes out there that are just.
- [77:22]
A
That's your move.
- [77:23]
B
Just cruise it. If that's the move. And it works, you know, only on men. It'd be so funny.
- [77:28]
A
We're gonna have to get 32.
- [77:29]
B
Fishing lore.
- [77:30]
A
Queer shifting gears. We need you to weigh in on this. Please have. And I don't know if these are men, women or otherwise, but. But let us know. Is that a good way for men to attract other men? Yeah, I think it probably is.
- [77:46]
B
I would like. That's funny.
- [77:47]
A
It's pretty fucking funny. Nerds.
- [77:50]
B
Yeah. I mean, skylines, Sure.
- [77:52]
A
I mean, everyone wants to talk to you about your DeLorean.
- [77:55]
B
Yeah. But I was gonna say most surprising. I feel like the DeLorean is too famous.
- [78:00]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [78:01]
B
Delica. Does that get approached a lot by, like, van nerds?
- [78:06]
A
Not really. People like, oh, that's cool. But then they don't really give a. The pow. I mean, Hannah's pow. People love. Everybody loves the pow. I mean, this. This ineos, you know, is a. Is a fairly regular car and people seem to be into it.
- [78:32]
B
I think older cars, sure. It does not surprise. But, like, you know, you're NSX, it's 20 years old, but you'd probably park it and get approached by lots of enthusiasts.
- [78:42]
A
I was very surprised at how much love the NSX would get on the street. It was a lot, huh? But if you have a really clean, old, cool car, like, it doesn't have to be fancy but like just something, you know, whatever. But that's nice and like a bead.
- [78:59]
B
Over the super clean stock 240 SX. Sure. You'd get so many people saying what.
- [79:05]
A
People offering you money?
- [79:06]
B
Yeah, just n a whatever Coop.
- [79:10]
A
LL Cartier. Cartier, Cartier. LL Cartier.
- [79:15]
B
Like Cool J. So I guess.
- [79:16]
A
Oh, LL Cool J. LL Cartier. Got it. All right. Cool. Yeah, yeah. Got a chance to drive the S63E Performance for a little over 1,000 miles around Texas. I found it to be effortlessly fast and the stereo and toys are amazing. However, I expected it to have no road or wind noise supple suspension and that the seats would guarantee my back would never feel a thing. And I was disappointed in those things. Am I disappointed because it's an AMG or because my expectations are off? Zach reviewed this product, I had the.
- [79:49]
B
Exact same expectations and I came away disappointed because I think adding too much performance to the S class and I know they want to sell it and and make it differentiate it from the lower S classes classes. But I think to me a big body bends of that should be a great highway machine, but a comfortable highway machine. So give it all the power in the world. Give it a thousand pound feet of torque and stuff. But make the suspension soft and make the wheels slightly smaller because on mild cracks in Santa Monica, I mean really like mild joints between smooth concrete, it like shook through the car. I think it has 22 inches wheels and it just felt like they pushed it too far to the twisty track performance envelope. And they completely lost what that car is intended for and will be used for.
- [80:33]
A
So I haven't driven it, but I would want it to ride well. I mean, you know, maybe they've just done a little too much amg. You know, they went a little too far. Gotta dial that shit back. But your back, I mean the seats that your back should it not have.
- [80:53]
B
Good seats were great.
- [80:54]
A
Maybe. I wonder if. Is there like further touch screen? Like if you just fuck with the controls? No, no. Like, but if you just set the seat using the controls but you don't dig into the menus to get. You got to get the additional lumbar.
- [81:08]
B
All that stuff's in the, in the adjustable bolsters. And with Mercedes you can change the lumbar with that graphic, not only how pronounced it is, you can make it look like a pregnant woman or a lightly pregnant woman, but you can also move the lumbar up and down and you have to get into those menus to find that stuff. And then you can tailor the seat totally to your body shape. But the ride, you know, what your back's going to feel through the tires is not adjustable. Not really.
- [81:33]
A
Matt's missing countach part. Cadillac and Audi are now in F1 predictions for who will have a better E year.
- [81:42]
B
Well, Audi bought Sauber.
- [81:44]
A
Yeah.
- [81:45]
B
And Cadillac's making their own team.
- [81:47]
A
Yeah.
- [81:47]
B
My money would be on Audi and Cadillac. Racing is so good. I mean, when they're in imsa, like, they are one of the top three contenders basically every year for.
- [81:57]
A
But Audi was extremely dominant in endurance racing as well.
- [82:00]
B
And I think. I think Audi knows how to endurance race. F1 is not an endurance race, but they know how to race and they bought an existing team that was doing okay. And Cadillac is like, everything is from the ground zero. And I think that will have a lot more issues.
- [82:17]
A
Yeah. I mean, the odds of them coming out of the hole fucking on podium is probably low.
- [82:22]
B
Yeah. They'll learn and they'll catch up, but I think they're starting behind.
- [82:26]
A
Right. Oh, boy. David Tuhig. The pink won in the stink. So it turns out I know like three people in the Epstein files.
- [82:37]
B
The newly released, released ones.
- [82:39]
A
The newly released one, the Brian Vickers and Sarah Kellen thing goes back like 11 years to when me and Spike hosted that TV show together with Brian Vickers. And his wife was around and she was just Brian's wife and he was just a retired NASCAR driver and she was just hanging out. So we were talking about her. What do you do? Interior designer. Okay, you like cars? What do you drive? Ferrari 599. It's like what this girl was like maybe in her late 20s or early 30s. I'm like, you drive a Ferrari 599? And she's like, yeah, and I have a Bentley or something else expensive. And I was like, interiors. You're interior designer. Like, okay. But like, something was like, off and like, later. Spike was like, doing some googling and like, found out then, like, that this girl, his wife was like, Ghislaine Maxwell's like, number two, like, recruiter.
- [83:42]
B
Oh, really?
- [83:43]
A
Yes.
- [83:43]
B
I did not know that.
- [83:44]
A
No. This was in 2015. This was in 2015. And me and Spike have been talking about this for years. For years. And every time there's been a tidbit about her name was Sarah Kellen or was is. I don't think she's ever been charged with anything. Her name's come up a million fucking times. I don't know why. It's like a bombshell. That all of a sudden Brian Vickers was involved because he's married to her. So of course his name is gonna be in there fucking somewhere. I haven't seen either of them since 2015, by the way. And then, yeah, Peter Attia's in there, too. That's not great. I don't know this guy that well. He came on the show, he's a doctor, he's pretty well known. He's a huge fan of Ayrton Senna and is a very fast racing driver also. And yep, in the Epstein files, there's not. He's not. I mean, he's like, we know what he's doing because.
- [84:42]
B
So I pull up this story. This is very recent.
- [84:44]
A
There isn't anything overtly criminal that I saw. Okay. And I didn't spend a lot of time on this, but, like, there's just emails back and forth of two people that are clearly friends.
- [84:55]
B
Like, right, so Vickers forwarded a sexually explicit. This is from USA Today. He forwarded a sexually explicit email to Epstein with a story about someone who gets rejected by a princess and then a prince that gets rejected. So he's in there for that.
- [85:14]
A
Yeah.
- [85:15]
B
And then I was trying to find information on Sarah Kellen.
- [85:18]
A
Well, she's right. I mean, she's right there. Vickers ex wife Sarah Kellen, blah, blah, blah. And there's two. Two links right there of her in that paragraph that you're on right there. Down, down, down. One of those two.
- [85:29]
B
Oh, okay. Oh, yeah. She was accused of recruiting. Yeah. I mean, was she found? Yeah. Guilty. I don't know.
- [85:36]
A
I don't actually know if she was tried, but she certainly, you know, got it. Definitely been around, let's just say. And, oh, the thing that Spike found back in the day. Day, the address of her office for her interior design business, it was in a fucking building Epstein owned. Like, it was at Epstein's building.
- [86:00]
B
So was she doing any interior design or being paid for that by doing.
- [86:04]
A
Other things, driving around a Ferrari 599 at 20 something. So, yeah. And then, you know, Peter's in there, too. Fucking. Nothing like overt, but, like, you know, friendly emails between friends.
- [86:20]
B
I mean, I said in the car, it's not great. Like, it's not great. I would feel gutted if my name showed up. And it was like Epstein was hit by valet Zach Klapman while at the chop house in Boulder in 2007.
- [86:33]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [86:34]
B
And it was like I crashed a car into him or something like that. And even then, you know, no, Thaddeus.
- [86:38]
A
Was Like, don't worry, the only Farah in there is a hotel in Morocco. I was like, woo, yeah, all right. But man, fucking everybody knew Epstein, I guess, huh? It seems like. Seems like all the rich people on all sides of the fucking political spectrum.
- [86:54]
B
I think it really matters. I think it does really matter how you knew this person, because if they were putting themselves in rich people parties and you were also going to the. Not the island parties, I'm saying, yeah.
- [87:06]
A
Like the charity parties or whatever the.
- [87:08]
B
Fuck, and there's a thousand people in the room doing high society stuff. Okay. But the details do matter.
- [87:14]
A
Sure.
- [87:14]
B
Yeah.
- [87:15]
A
Yeah.
- [87:16]
B
Go read the complaint line logs. If you're listening to this and you haven't seen them, because those are disgusting. And that's where, like, the real story, I think, is the.
- [87:25]
A
The extent of my wanting to read about the Epstein files. I watch Coffeezilla. Yeah, I like. I love me some Coffeezilla. The latest video from the other day about. There was like two days ago or whatever about. This was great. But yeah, no, not so great that Peter was in there. I mean, not great. So, I mean, what am I. I don't know what the fuck I'm supposed to say. Hung out with the guy a couple times. We didn't do anything weird. We looked at cars and ate.
- [87:57]
B
Talked about Senna.
- [87:58]
A
Talked about Aaron Senna.
- [87:59]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [88:02]
A
Major depreciation disorder. Says lots of people say super. Certain cars hold value better than they should. But have you seen examples of cars that depreciate badly even though they shouldn't? Sure, sure. There are cars that depreciate faster than they should.
- [88:21]
B
Well, how do we define should or shouldn't? It's like we love them because they're exciting, but they depreciate because they made a ton of them. And it's like, oh, that car. We think that car is worth more than X, but it's fallen to that value because there's a bunch of them out there or because. Because they fall apart and they suck.
- [88:35]
A
You need to change the. We need to change the wording. Because it's not cars that depreciate badly even though they shouldn't. It should be cars that depreciate badly even though they're fundamentally good cars. You know what I mean? Because, like, sometimes a car depreciates badly because it's an unreliable piece of shit. Sometimes a car depreciates badly because they just built too many.
- [88:52]
B
Right?
- [88:53]
A
Like, that's. That's Corvettes. I mean, that's. I'm literally counting on That I am counting on Corvette ZR1s to get so cheap that I can buy one as a daily beater.
- [89:03]
B
Or the fact that prices have already come down, they're already there, you know.
- [89:07]
A
Hugely in price and regular ass C7s like a Stingray is like a $55,000 car right now with relatively low miles. So like you can always count on GM to make one more car than they should have. And so.
- [89:23]
B
Yeah, that's a good example.
- [89:24]
A
Yeah. Granny Shifton, not double clutching, you should. Would you rather be a moderately successful racing driver, think mid tier IndyCar or have the careers you currently have? I'd rather have the career I currently.
- [89:40]
B
Have, I think something that isn't talked about. But if you listen to Dinner with Racers, a lot of the racers they talk to, they talk about the hustle required by a racing driver below the top top. The hustle they have to put in to get sponsors for everything for every year is crazy. I mean all of them have the same story of knocking on 100 doors when they're getting started. Even when they're winning a couple things or doing well, they have to go sell themselves all the time. And that just seems, for me that would be like impossible. That'd be really hard. Not to mention you don't get to drive everything. You drive one thing and yeah, it.
- [90:18]
A
Might suck at it. I mean, what if you're, you know, what if the car you have is a piece of shit or the team you're in is a piece of shit, but know you need them.
- [90:24]
B
Ross Bentley has that story. His Indy car was this engine from last generation. It wasn't competitive and then they kept exploding so you could get stuck with that.
- [90:33]
A
Yeah, major depreciation disorder. When the STI was discontinued, I thought, Zach, can you check this? Some sold listings on cars and bids. When the STI was discontinued, I thought it would hold value or possibly appreciate. Appreciate. Looking at bat and cars and bids, I've seen many go for underwhelming figures. In some cases, WRXs hold value better. Why does nobody seem to care about STIs? Interesting question. Part of it is that Subaru hasn't really done anything to make younger people excited about STIs, you know what I mean? Or about Subarus. They don't have a real. Like, they're not rallying right now. Let's see. Let's go. Hang on. Let's go for. Can we Results. Let's go for recent sold for. So There's a type RA. 13,300 miles, 40,000, 2016, one owner, 15,000. I mean I would say 1200. Well, I would say this. They don't really appear to be collectible. They appear to be fun cars to drive that you know, will hold value sort of. Well to a point.
- [91:57]
B
Wow, look, I mean this is 10,000 miles on a car that's 11 years old.
- [92:00]
A
Yeah.
- [92:01]
B
And it's 25 grand.
- [92:03]
A
Yeah, I mean that's not great.
- [92:05]
B
That is so low. It's 1,000 miles a year less. And I mean actually look, that would.
- [92:11]
A
Be that if you, if that sale went through, which it doesn't look like it did, but that would be a good buy. A 10,000 mile STI for 25 grand.
- [92:20]
B
Well then, but then we get into thing, is the mileage too low where you need to fix things because it wasn't driven enough.
- [92:24]
A
I think that was enough miles. I think 1,000 miles a year is enough miles that you don't have to fix things from. Not from lack of use.
- [92:32]
B
I'd have to look at the production numbers. I think for me and a lot of it is that the car's performance hasn't really, hasn't changed drastically enough. So you have, you don't just have the supply of like the most recent generation, you have the supply of effectively 04 to now.
- [92:47]
A
Yeah.
- [92:48]
B
And they all make almost the same horsepower. The transmissions I think are the same. It's a good six speed. So they, if it ain't broke, don't fix it and they don't break so they don't have to change it. But you go, okay, well basically you're picking an appearance package. Which one do you like the best? But I think that means the supply number is really high and so they're not that collectible. And I think they get driven a lot, which is good.
- [93:08]
A
And also like they have like, they have a floor, you know, like, like, yeah, like, like, like a running, driving, non salvage one is always going to be worth like 15, 16 grand. Right. So you know, you can use that number of knowing where the floor is to buy one used and in enjoy, you know.
- [93:31]
B
Yeah.
- [93:32]
A
Going all right, well If I pay $25,000 for that, that 10 year old one, you know, I could put a hundred thousand miles on it. And as long as I don't crash it or otherwise break it, I'm only going to lose, you know, whatever 8,000 bucks in depreciation.
- [93:48]
B
Yeah.
- [93:49]
A
So it's not going to cost me anything to buy. So all these collectible ones are fucking in the wrapper. Right. Those are, those are all or like a 22B or something, but like pretty much, you know, so they're just not investment grade cars, which is okay. It means buy, drive and enjoy.
- [94:09]
B
It also looks like the ones that are selling for more money is, according to BAT, are the, you know,04-06s with like Hawkeye with low miles. But anything that's newer than that, that's when you're getting even that one. That's when you're getting into like the 20s and the 30s.
- [94:24]
A
Yeah. I mean, those 0406 cars or 0407, I mean, those are really iconic cars. And so I'm not sure the, like. If you said to me, if you said to me, matt, what does a 2005 STI look like? I go, well, it has these headlights and this wing. If you said, what's a 2016 look like compared to a 2014? I couldn't really tell you.
- [94:50]
B
I couldn't either. I think we kind of stopped paying attention to them and. Yeah, because that was after the egg. That was after the hatchback.
- [94:58]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Queer Shifting Gears says thoughts on the car community using delete as a verb or noun for removing or swapping something. Where did it come from? I mean, you go back to like the 60s and you could have ACE air conditioning delete or radio delete packages for muscle cars and shit.
- [95:20]
B
Definitely. I think what they say is, I guess on the E500 discussion you said, we're deleting the wood trim and swapping it with all wood. So that's just like maybe just, you know, I mean, language changes. It evolves a lot as time goes on.
- [95:34]
A
But if I literally said it like that, though, that's me speaking very sloppily. Yeah, we're not deleting. We're swap. We're changing. We're changing wood to metal.
- [95:41]
B
I think delete mostly means I didn't choose this option that was available. Yeah. You know, if like the Delta 3.
- [95:47]
A
RSS is a pro, is not just not getting an option, it's. There are options to remove shit.
- [95:53]
B
Yeah, yeah, that's delete. You're selecting to take away the thing that was included.
- [95:58]
A
Correct. Like, you could get like in the GT4, you could get air conditioning, delete, things like that. Okay. When Baymobile says, when equipped with an automatic gearbox, the Mazda RX8 cannot reach 7000rpmrpm in order to open an intake valve that would otherwise be able to open with a car equipped with a manual because the red line is higher, this, among other things, caused engines to fail. And sullied the reputation of the car. Have there been other cars that when equipped with certain options, drastically change reliability of that car? Oh yeah.
- [96:38]
B
That's a pretty unique situation.
- [96:39]
A
Well, for sure. I mean there's like this in this description. If you had a car that had a shitty automatic transmission. Well, yeah, if you got the automatic transmission, it would be worse than if you got the manual, which was fine. Right.
- [96:55]
B
Well, the auto is the thing that breaks. This is interesting because the transmission selected is causing engines to fail versus the transmission failing.
- [97:03]
A
Well, we just talked about this. The F1 pumps in the single clutch gearboxes. A stick shift Ferrari360 is drastically more reliable when it's driven properly and not smoke the clutch than a fucking a paddle shifted one. Way more reliable. But not because the gearbox ruins the engine. It's because the gearbox isn't reliable. So those for sure, the Wrangler's 4xe, any Chrysler Hybrid or whatever. Stellantis hybrid product, for sure.
- [97:40]
B
Yeah. I mean overcomplicating usually leads to a reduction in reliability.
- [97:44]
A
Right.
- [97:44]
B
Yeah.
- [97:46]
A
Back in the day, the Cadillac cylinder deactivation from the 80s. Oh. Cause anyway, the V8642 or whatever it was, I think V864 it was called, it was essentially cylinder deactivation and it was just a mess.
- [97:59]
B
Wasn't that happening with an LS generation? Because it deactivates, you're not getting that wash the gasoline cleaning off the cylinders and stuff.
- [98:07]
A
It could have been, yeah, but not sure. Okay, let's see. Koji. Koji also says it seems that the latest trend in BMW track cars is swapping in the B48 turbo four cylinder, which I think was in the 230. And BMW shops are doing this swap and a tune into E36s and getting cars that put down faster track times than the cars equipped with S54s and LS. Lighter weight, better chassis balance. Okay. If you were one of the people tracking their older BMW and chasing faster lap times, would you do this? I don't. I don't see why not. If it actually worked.
- [98:53]
B
This makes total sense. If all I'm chasing is lap times, then you will always go for the thing that will make you faster. So reduce weight, move the weight, balance back.
- [99:01]
A
Sure.
- [99:02]
B
Liability stays the same power, especially with power and bop and all these different class rules.
- [99:06]
A
Then you use the automatic gearbox.
- [99:08]
B
Am I hitting the horsepower number that we're allowed to have? Yes. Yeah. So if I can that with less weight and less consumption and better weight balance, the answer is yes.
- [99:16]
A
And if you can literally do the whole powertrain like that B48 with the ZF8 speed automatic gearbox, like I just did a fucking endurance race with that gearbox. I will absolutely race with that gearbox. That is a excellent automatic transmission for racing. Like, does exactly what it's fucking told. So if I was doing it, I would actually ditch the stick also and take the automatic. Yeah. Fast. Back to the future. Assuming it can be done OEM and has good margins. Is there a market for a shop that creates and sells Crosstrek converted STIs? Are you turning an STI into a Crosstrek or a Crosstrek into an sti?
- [99:59]
B
That's a very good question. I assumed it would be swapping stuff, STI stuff into the cross link. Well, Crosstrek converted sti. No, I think it would. You're right. That's that direction. So you're just lifting an sti.
- [100:13]
A
You're lifting an sti.
- [100:14]
B
Well, that market truly exists. That's called rally suspension. And that's much simpler than swapping STI parts into a Crosstrek. Probably.
- [100:22]
A
But I don't know. Let's say a Crosstrek is a $35,000 car. I don't know. Let's say an sti is a 50,000 car. Right. So are you gonna get somebody who really wants to spend like $75,000 on a Subaru? I don't think you are.
- [100:44]
B
I think the market's very small for this kind of thing.
- [100:46]
A
Yeah.
- [100:47]
B
And in either direction, if you want to make a Crosstrek faster, there's probably cheaper ways to do it. Just put a turbo, a small one on that thing. Or maybe you can just swap the engine. But to make a full STI version of Crosstrek with trans and fitment, all that stuff would probably be tough and inexpensive.
- [101:03]
A
Yeah, I blow horns. Why are many automotive news outlets referring to an upcoming 911 GT car that's been tested recently as a GT3RS, claiming it's going turbo as opposed to NA for the next gen. Isn't it obviously a GT2RS testing? I think you're right. I think all these people are saying the next gen GT3RS is going turbo to get people to click on their shit, when in reality the spy shots are very obviously a GT3. The question for me is, is the GT2Rs going to be hybrid or will it be just like last generation twin turbo or a juiced up version of the 3 liter, which we know can make big power? So that's really a Question for me. It is also possible that the next gen GT car, GT3RS might have to be turbocharged, like or it might have to have a hybrid assist system in it or have something like. I'm not sure how long they could keep building that engine. I think they're going to try, but I don't know if they can.
- [102:08]
B
Yeah, I think a lot of people when these changes happen they'll say why is Porsche or why is car company doing this? And the answer is almost always not because they want to, because they have to.
- [102:20]
A
Focus ST lover. What would you consider to be the best car for the snow under 35, no modifications. I mean whichever one. You can just get snow tires from the factory. Like the best car in the snow. By the way, we live in Los Angeles. I have a very limited amount of time to drive cars in the snow. Like testing cars in snow is a real treat. I love doing it, but like that doesn't happen here. But like any all wheel drive car car, let's game it out. It'll probably be a Subaru.
- [102:57]
B
My thought went to Outback of some kind, preferably like the last gen where they're a little bit smaller than.
- [103:04]
A
Yeah, like an Outback essentially. Like a Crosstrek or a Willard. Like it has all wheel drive that's longitudinal, not Haldex based. So it has a real transfer case, real longitudinal, you know, all wheel drive. And you just put good tires on that.
- [103:19]
B
Yeah, I think Crosstrek with snow tires is the answer because you have ground clearance, you have a simple engine, it's not turbocharged. And the diff situation is simpler than some of the front wheel drive based cars.
- [103:34]
A
Elderly woman behind the wheel of a small car. You recently said that no production cars have ever really scared you. What about the opposite? Have any cars just been way too easy to drive at the limit?
- [103:47]
B
GTRs.
- [103:48]
A
GTRs are boring. Yeah. Our 35 GTRs are boring. Yeah.
- [103:52]
B
Now the limits have gotten higher with cars like that because power's gone up. So you know, a new 911 Turbo S, which is what the GTR competed with when it came out, is so fast. The limits, the kinetic energy and the momentum, like if you lose it at that speed, the speed's capable would be pretty dangerous.
- [104:08]
A
Yeah.
- [104:08]
B
So it's gotten harder. But usually things that have too much tire and not enough, enough horsepower are also very easy to drive. Miata's pretty easy to drive at the limit.
- [104:16]
A
Yeah. There's cars with more tire than power.
- [104:20]
B
Subaru brzts.
- [104:22]
A
Sure. That thing. Yeah.
- [104:23]
B
Sticky tightly Sprung. No guts.
- [104:27]
A
GR Corollas are really easy to drive at the limit, particularly the automatic transmission equipped ones. You could fucking lap and lap and lap and lap and lap like the Golf River. I mean the Golf R is an incredibly competent car. That is not particularly exciting. I could get to within a quarter second a lap of what that car could ever possibly do on like lap three. And now what do I learn, you know? So that's kind of like where those types of cars could be like boring is on a track. Because on a road, well, every, the scenery changes, you know, so every, every corner is a little bit of a new adventure. But on a track where you have the same 12 corners over and over and you can figure out what a car can do like right quick. Now you're just. Now you're boring. Yeah. Blue Chews and Blue Cruise. Thinking about that combination, that would be a good, that would be a good like only fans channel. Like for like, for like a couple. That was like getting. Giving Roadhead constantly.
- [105:39]
B
Yep.
- [105:40]
A
For a while. Remember there was like when FSD like first came out, there was a bunch of like FSD porn.
- [105:45]
B
Yep.
- [105:46]
A
I'm glad they've stopped doing that. Thoughts on the discontinuation of the Model S and X? That is the X I could see. But what's crazy is, is that they don't have a new one. They're just canceling this car. These two cars. And it's not like they're replacing them with other cars. They're actually talking about building this dumb fucking robot thing. What are we doing?
- [106:17]
B
Right. They say they're gonna shift production at the Fremont factory from model S&X2 robots to the Optimus robots and whatnot that.
- [106:24]
A
Are very real and that we're all gonna fucking have for sure. That is just crazy to me.
- [106:30]
B
I wonder what. I don't think the X has been selling well for a long time. So getting rid of that makes sense. I am curious. I'll look it up while you chat. Like what the Model S sales have done. Or have the three and the Y eclipsed the S so much?
- [106:45]
A
The S is such an old car and it's still expensive. The X is fucking stupid. But to not have replacement. Very true.
- [106:54]
B
That is a unique thing that most car companies do.
- [106:56]
A
That is crazy. You know, and not only that, I mean we know for a fact they don't really have any next gen plans for Model y or Model 3 either. I guess they don't want to build cars anymore. I mean it turns out that like, you know, most Shocking that most of Elon's bullshit was fucking bullshit, because this, you know, it was supposed to. It was supposed to make transportation fucking greener. That was gonna be the thing. And now they've rolled back all these environmental fucking regulations, thanks to the fucking guy that Elon effectively guaranteed got into office. And now Tesla's just not gonna build cars anymore.
- [107:46]
B
That's weird. According to goodcarbackcar.net, the annual sales for the Model S peaked at 90,000 in 2022. Although they were going down.
- [107:55]
A
Yeah, 90,000.
- [107:57]
B
That's weird.
- [107:57]
A
That's when. That's when the plaid came out. Okay, that was the plaid.
- [108:01]
B
They sold a lot of plaids. But since then, 26,000 in 23, 15,024, 9,025. So pretty steep decline. Geez. I mean, that's falling really fast.
- [108:14]
A
Yeah.
- [108:15]
B
So they had their time, kind of the early teens, selling in the 20s.
- [108:21]
A
That's not that many.
- [108:22]
B
I mean, the average. If you get rid of the 90, I mean, it's like 22,000. Yeah. So I think. I think the 3 and the Y. But it is weird. I get it. Getting rid of sedans. Ford's done that. But to get rid of your biggest, largest suv.
- [108:36]
A
Well, and you're.
- [108:37]
B
And not replaced and not have a. Is something. I don't think another car company would do that.
- [108:42]
A
That's crazy. They're going so hard at this AI thing. I mean, either it's spectacularly successful and regular people are deeply fucked, or it goes spectacularly wrong and regular people will get to laugh in five minutes before realizing that the entire economy was propped up on this and we're all deeply fucked.
- [109:06]
B
Propped up on this. I think. Well, I mean, yes, that would hurt the Mag 7 and spy and all that stuff. I think the bigger question is, if the robots don't work out for him in terms of manufacturing, does Tesla crater down to being valued what a car company should be valued at? And if they succeed, does he actually have an army of robots to do his bidding?
- [109:26]
A
I mean, first off, they will not. There are already domestic robots. I have four of them in my kitchen right now. Of course, I have a dinner dishwasher, a washing machine, a dryer, fucking automatic coffee maker. I have all kinds of robots that do things already. They're not shaped like people because they'd be worse at their job if they were shaped like fucking people.
- [109:47]
B
I mean, yeah, car companies already use robots to do specialized things. Yeah, but a human is more versatile in skills than something bolted to the ground that can, like Move a thing or weld a thing.
- [109:57]
A
But it's like so bad at things.
- [109:59]
B
It is.
- [110:00]
A
It's so bad at doing things. Things? Yeah, like. Like, it's like you. The reason our eyes are good is because they're connected to our brain. The reason our, our hands can do things is because they're all connected to our brain. Without an actual human brain, you can't do any of this shit.
- [110:20]
B
Well, it depends on what you program it to do. I mean, computers can.
- [110:23]
A
A general AI robot is what he's trying to sell.
- [110:26]
B
Yeah, you can't.
- [110:27]
A
That's not a thing. You can't have that. I feel like I'm fucking taking crazy pills. Everyone's like, when he has robots. What the fuck do you mean when he has. This is not real.
- [110:38]
B
Following you around and doing your dishes for you.
- [110:39]
A
This is bullshit, dude. None of this is real. Colin Seib is reading the Power of Now. Have the lessons from the book stuck or faded in your daily life? The only thing that sticks is to be an observer of yours. I read this book like three years ago. And so it's like. It's essentially like if you're having thoughts, negative thoughts about yourself, the idea is that you step out and become an observer of that and go, huh, I'm having those thoughts. And to observe yourself having the thoughts, thoughts and sort of become that separate from it. The first half of the power now is really good. Then the second half, it really veers into Jesus land and you can let that shit go. But if you have an overactive brain, you can't turn it off. That's a good place to start. My cat's name is Bethany. Hi, Bethany. When you're on a road trip, what gas station chains do you prefer to stop at? If it's a available, I don't really give a shit. Unless it's like not a brand name of gas. Like, I try not to stop at gas I've never heard of. I like a good store, though. I like a good selection at a store, you know, I like a big travel stop, given the choice, but I don't. I don't really care that much.
- [112:13]
B
My needs are pretty small. Yeah, water, caffeine, if they have the tea, great. And then one Quest bar and I'm fine.
- [112:22]
A
Yeah, I mean, I'm not. I don't poop at gas stations unless it's an emergency. I don't like to roll like that. I prepare for my road trips. My road trip really begins about an hour before I get on the road. There's a poop and then there's a safety poop. You know, it's gotta be.
- [112:38]
B
But that means it does change with wifely presence. Like I, you know, and Sarah, she'll go to the bathroom at the gas station bathroom and she'll come out and be like, that was gnarly.
- [112:45]
A
Yeah.
- [112:46]
B
And she'll go, you so lucky that you don't have to do that.
- [112:49]
A
Yeah.
- [112:49]
B
But if you don't, there's no gas station. Well, gas Station Bathroom Reviews is not an app I've come across in order to grinder. Yeah, it probably is. The only things I don't like are the super, super tiny gas station where they have like eight drinks and two chips. You know, it's just. And it's what they have room for. Yeah, I try to avoid those.
- [113:08]
A
Yeah, I. It's hard. It's hard to tell, but it's hard to tell from outside. But I really don't like it when you go, especially in the Midwest or the south, to a really big gas station store. It's fucking big. No sparkling water. They'll have like 30 club soda. 30? No, they don't even have that shit. They have no bubbly water in this bitch. They'll like 25 kinds of regular water flavored, but no bubbles. Come on, guys, get with the fucking program. Johnny. Ev Gibberman, of all. All of the pedestrian rentals or loaners you drove in 2025, what was the top five? I don't have five regular cars. Yeah, we rented a Chrysler Pacifica. Those are good for racing. That was good. I had a Kia Carnival I rented in Texas. I didn't like driving it as much as I liked the Pacifica, to be honest with you.
- [114:06]
B
I drove a Ram 1500 that my stepdad in law owns and that was nice. Sounds good.
- [114:15]
A
Yeah.
- [114:15]
B
Good truck. Sure.
- [114:16]
A
I drove a. What else have I driven? I liked my dad's Lexus tx. You like that?
- [114:24]
B
I saw. I've seen a couple around here.
- [114:26]
A
Yeah. My dad's Lexus tx I like a lot. That's pretty cool. I think that's a good one.
- [114:34]
B
We have a privileged journalist lifestyle. Truly. Like we drive, we drive the sporty stuff.
- [114:40]
A
Yeah. And when we travel, we're usually driving press cars or we're there to drive something else. So there's not a lot of like rentals or like regular ass cars coming through.
- [114:48]
B
Yep.
- [114:56]
A
Chris. Well, I got. We have to be done too. Chris from Colorado as. Why do some manufacturers. Manufacturers. Not put emphasis on the tactile feel of the paddle shifters it should feel like pulling the trigger on a gun. Mechanical and crisp. Some of them feel like you're pushing a button on a $15 coffee maker. I don't think very many people use the shift paddles. And I think that if they want something to cheap out on, having that mechanism you're describing, that could bring the cost of that shifter paddle from 15 cents to 40 cents. And that could be axed out of any meeting. I mean, even Porsche, Porsche has multiple shifter paddles. If you get a Macan or something and it has the paddles that will feel different from a GT3 paddles. And then the GT3 RS has the optional super clicky paddle paddles. Like there's an optional crazy paddle set for the GT3RS that's like out of the race car. That's crazy. But it costs like real money. I mean, so why? Because money. Because it's just an easy thing to cheap out on and they don't think very many people are going to use them. I was just driving the Corvette E Ray. It had carbon paddles. I happen to think carbon paddles feel kind of cheap. I don't think they feel that good. They feel like plastic, but they are carbon. They're not plastic. So I don't know. Okay, wait. Mustang geek says the re regarding the C8 vets rear view mirror screen. Have you considered that a rear view screen lacks a traditional mirror's depth perception because it's literally a 2D device? I mean, yes, I am aware of that, but that's not what I was talking about. What I was talking about was the clarity of the image, not the depth perception. I wasn't complaining about that. I was saying that I could see in my digital rear view mirror that there's five cars behind me in the other lane. I can see five cars. Whereas I then look in the side view mirror, which is real glass, and I go, that's a BMW 3 Series, a Ford Explorer, a Nissan Versa, a blah, blah. I'm not talking depth perception. I was talking about the clarity of the image and being able to identify what's there. Now the question, do you think that rear view screens, like yoke steering wheels, sound like a great idea in theory, but in practice expose massive shortcomings for actual driving? I do, and I think that's a good way to put it. But I don't think it's 100% right because I, I think there are benefits. It's not all negative. There are certain things about the camera, like the performance in low light and the Fact that it's independent of your window being dirty. You can change the field of view of that camera a little bit to suit yourself. The way that adjusting a mirror wouldn't produce the same result. So there are some benefits, but I just think there's also some very interesting drawbacks. It's not a win win. Can you scroll down?
- [118:19]
B
Some people speculated like I looked up how much what the resolution of the human eye would be if you could measure it like that. And one way of measuring it would be like 12,000 by 12,000 for a picture. So that's obviously much higher resolution. It's way beyond 4K.
- [118:33]
A
Yeah. By Turbo. Curious. History has many examples of car companies that tried and failed. In a minute. America, including most of the French ones. What car brands currently not doing business in the US could succeed here? Oh, byd. Easy.
- [118:54]
B
Yeah.
- [118:54]
A
Byd. It's true.
- [118:56]
B
And it's an appliance that drives people.
- [118:57]
A
Around and they don't have weird unpronounceable names. It's just three letters. American can. Americans can pronounce.
- [119:02]
B
And you start selling them in Canada.
- [119:03]
A
They would undercut everybody. I mean people would be like, wait.
- [119:06]
B
A minute, what if they were priced here the way they are in other places? It would undercut everyone. It always depends on tariff adjustments.
- [119:12]
A
Sure.
- [119:15]
B
I've not read this.
- [119:17]
A
I mean, I appreciate that you're asking about a bill, but I didn't read it. I don't know what it is. Tiny Japanese Cobra. Last question, then we're done. Says, not everything needs to be fast to be cool. What cars have the highest dollar to horsepower ratio? Crazy 21 window Volkswagen buses come to mind at 200,000 for 50 horsepower. How far back you want to go? I mean that car we drove in the fucking veteran run was like a $250,000 car. I think it made six horsepower.
- [119:51]
B
Yeah. I mean if you go old and collectible and super historic, what would a.
- [119:56]
A
Ben's patent motor wagon cost at auction? Millions and millions of dollars. And it makes like a half of a horsepower. So it's just like old. Just keep going old and you'll end up in something that costs.
- [120:09]
B
Yeah. The first Mercedes electric wagon thing. That's not what you're talking about.
- [120:13]
A
Yeah, no. Like the patent motor wagon, a little three wheeled thing with the big flywheel you started with like that's like a horsepower.
- [120:20]
B
Or their first electric car that Ms. Benz drove. Mrs. Benz drove. Like that would be.
- [120:24]
A
Yeah.
- [120:25]
B
$800 million if you could find it.
- [120:27]
A
Yeah. Some historically significant thing that makes 2 horsepower is probably it. Yeah. Thanks, everybody. Good show today. Thank you to our patrons for such good questions. Thank you to everyone else for playing along with us. If you want to join the fun, patreon.com com thesmokingtirepodcast and we'll see you back here in a couple of days. Bye.