When is a Car Too Perfect?; No Bubble Wrapping; Theon 911 Restomod

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Smoking Tire – "When is a Car Too Perfect?; No Bubble Wrapping; Theon 911 Restomod"

Release Date: May 14, 2025
Hosts: Matt Farah and Zack Klapman
Episode Duration: Approximately 1 hour 51 minutes

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1. Introduction and Episode Overview

Matt Farah and Zack Klapman kick off the episode by setting the stage for a deep dive into several automotive topics. They outline the key areas of discussion, including a review of the Theon Design Porsche 911 Restomod, insights into car auctions, the debate between maintaining low-mileage vehicles versus enjoying driven cars, and the potential setup of an outdoor studio for car shoots.

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2. Theon Design Porsche 911 Restomod Review

[60:57] Matt Farah: "We had to hold it because there was some sort of embargo. If you're on the audio, this will be pretty seamless. But if you're in the video, my wardrobe is about to change."

Matt and Zack discuss their experience driving the Theon Design Porsche 911 Restomod, a reinterpretation of the classic Porsche 911. The car features a 4-liter air-cooled motor producing 400 horsepower, a 6-speed gearbox, and a lightweight carbon body.

Key Points:

• Interior Modifications: The restomod boasts reworked 964 seats, offering enhanced comfort but deviating from the original design aesthetic.

  Matt Farah: "It has a dual exhaust, which doesn't provide the same rasp as a center exhaust typical of a 964."

• Performance Modes: The car is equipped with four drive modes—comfort, sport, sport with throttle blip, and race. However, Matt notes issues with the throttle blip feature, causing unintended acceleration during downshifts.

  Matt Farah: "If you wanted to go from five to four, it didn't blip it correctly, causing the car to jerk forward."

• Build Quality: While the carbon body and assembly quality are praised, certain customization choices, like the SEMA-style switches, are critiqued for lacking functionality and labeling.

  Matt Farah: "The buttons are not labeled, making it frustrating to use compared to brands like Pagani, where each switch is clearly marked."

Conclusion: Theon Design's restomod offers a blend of classic Porsche elements with modern enhancements. However, some customization choices may not align with purist preferences, affecting the overall driving experience.

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3. Car Auctions and Bidding Strategies

Discussion Focus: The hosts delve into the dynamics of car auctions, examining the roles of professional sellers versus private sellers, and the impact of vehicle mileage on auction outcomes.

Key Insights:

• Professional Sellers' Advantages: Professional sellers simplify the process, saving buyers time and potentially fetching higher prices compared to private sellers.

  Zack Klapman: "Professional sellers make the process easier, save time and energy, and ultimately bring more money."

• Buyer Behavior: Many auction participants are willing to gamble by bidding without extensive inspections, relying on trust and the auction's reputation.

  Matt Farah: "People buy cars at auction without doing a PPI locally, trusting their ability to drive it home or handle minor issues."

• Impact of Mileage: Vehicles with extremely low mileage often command higher prices, but this can be misleading if the car hasn't been properly maintained or is subject to excessive depreciation.

  Matt Farah: "Low-mileage cars bring in more money but often require expensive services to remain operational."

• Psychology of Collectors: The desire to own a pristine vehicle can lead to behaviors where the potential financial loss is overshadowed by the car's perceived prestige.

  Zach Klapman: "If you're assuming you'll lose money, it's freeing. Many don't want to drive their cars to preserve value, missing out on the joy of ownership."

Notable Quote:
Matt Farah [07:28]: "I think people don't like cars that are like 95% perfect. The reaction is sort of, why didn't you go all the way."

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4. Low Mileage vs. Driven Cars: Investment and Enjoyment

The conversation shifts to evaluating whether maintaining a car in near-perfect condition or allowing it to accumulate some wear offers greater enjoyment and financial sense.

Key Points:

• Depreciation vs. Enjoyment: While low-mileage cars may appreciate in value, driven cars provide tangible enjoyment without significant financial loss.

  Matt Farah: "Most of the time, you can't make money on a car purchase unless you're dealing with seven or eight-figure vehicles."

• Cost of Maintenance: Cars kept in pristine condition still incur costs related to insurance, storage, and regular maintenance, which could be invested elsewhere for potential higher returns.

  Zach Klapman: "You might be leaving good money on the table by keeping a car in bubble wrap instead of enjoying it."

• Collector Mentality: Some enthusiasts prefer low-mileage vehicles to maximize resale value, but this often leads to neglecting the car's use and enjoyment.

  Matt Farah: "Cars like the Ferrari 328 with 40,000 miles offer a balance between low mileage and usability."

notable Quote:
Zach Klapman [35:29]: "How awesome would it be to have, like, the most depreciated F40?"

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5. Building an Outdoor Studio for Car Shoots

[22:06] Matt Farah: "Down in Gardena, we have all this wall, all that gray. All the cars, we're shooting so many cars now for these auctions."

Matt and Zack explore the idea of setting up an outdoor studio with varied backdrops (white, ivy, gray) to enhance the visual appeal of their car shoots. They discuss practical considerations like lighting, wear and tear on materials, and the aesthetics of the setup.

Key Considerations:

• Variety of Backdrops: Incorporating elements like ivy and white sails to create different visual settings.

  Matt Farah: "Real ivy in one area, a white sail in another for diffused light."

• Maintenance: Outdoor materials are subject to weathering, requiring regular upkeep to maintain appearance.

  Zach Klapman: "The white sail would need to be power-washed regularly to keep it clean."

• Aesthetic Balance: Ensuring the studio setup complements the cars without appearing out of place to visitors.

  Matt Farah: "I just wouldn't want it to look weird when customers are driving up and be like, what's all this wonky shit."

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6. Listener Questions and Discussions

Throughout the episode, Matt and Zack address various listener-submitted questions and topics, providing expert opinions and engaging in animated discussions.

Highlighted Discussions:

• Human Capital Terminology:
  Matt Farah: Critiques the use of "human capital" in corporate jargon, emphasizing the importance of respecting individuals beyond viewing them as mere resources.

• Drive Modes in Cars:
  Listener Query: Difficulty in perceiving differences between drive modes in terms of ride and handling.
  Hosts' Insight: Drive modes often don't correlate with suspension adjustments unless paired with adaptive systems. Recommended vehicles like the Corvette with Z51 package for noticeable differences.

  Zack Klapman: "Car models with Mag Ride Suspension offer more drastic differences between modes."

• Pronunciation of "Taycan":
  Matt Farah: Clarifies it’s pronounced "Tay-can," occasionally humorously mispronouncing it as "taycan."

• Modern Tires and Lap Times:
  **Discussion on how advanced tires can dramatically reduce lap times, citing the Carrera GT's Nurburgring performance improvement with new tires.

  Matt Farah: "The Carrera GT shaved 16 seconds off its lap time with new tires."

• Choosing Cars for New Drivers:
  Listener Query: Advising against a 2013 WRX as a first car for a learner's permit holder.
  Hosts' Recommendation: Suggesting safer alternatives like the Subaru Crosstrek without a turbo and with a manual transmission.

  Matt Farah: "They should have something practical for the wife and kids, but halfway fun for me."

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7. Closing Remarks and Future Topics

As the episode wraps up, Matt and Zack briefly touch upon upcoming content and express gratitude towards their audience and patrons. They hint at future discussions, including updates on electric vehicles like the Taycan and potential product giveaways.

Notable Points:

• Future Content: Plans to review the six-month update of the Taycan and explore more about dash cams and their integration into modern vehicles.

  Matt Farah: "The six-month update of the Taycan is coming up. How are the haptic controls now?"

• Community Engagement: Encouragement for listeners to engage via Patreon for exclusive content, early access, and participation in giveaways.

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Conclusion

This episode of The Smoking Tire offers a comprehensive exploration of automotive enthusiasm, balancing technical reviews with insightful discussions on car ownership philosophies. Matt and Zack provide valuable perspectives for both seasoned collectors and everyday car enthusiasts, emphasizing the importance of enjoyment over purely financial considerations in car ownership.

Key Takeaways:

• Enjoyment vs. Investment: Prioritizing the joy of driving over attempting to preserve a car's value.
• Professional vs. Private Selling: Understanding the benefits and limitations of each approach in car auctions.
• Customization Insights: The impact of customization choices on car performance and aesthetic appeal.

Notable Quotes for Reflection:

• Matt Farah: "Don't expect to make money on a car purchase unless you're dealing with seven or eight-figure vehicles."
• Zach Klapman: "If you assume you're going to lose money, it's freeing."

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For more detailed reviews and discussions, visit The Smoking Tire's YouTube Channel.

Follow Matt and Zack on Twitter @thesmokingtire and @fakezackklapman for the latest updates and behind-the-scenes content.

Transcript

[Matt Farah]

What's up, everybody? Welcome to the Smokin Tire Podcast. Today's episode is brought to you, as always, by off the Record. We love off the Record, and they are here for you. If you get a moving violation, don't plead guilty. Get off the Record. There's only one way to do it. There used to be two ways. Now there's only one. You go to offtherecord.com TST that's off the Record. Once you're there, you just tell them a little bit about the ticket you got, the circumstances, etc. They fight that ticket on your behalf. More often than not, they win. And if they don't win, you don't pay. Those points come off your record. It won't affect your insurance, your job, etc. Once again, offtherecord.com TST that's offtherecord.com TV TST all right, folks, on this episode of the Smoke and Tire Podcast, I review the theon Design reimagined Porsche 911. Also, we talk about more about bring a trailer and cars and bids values. We consider building an outdoor studio in order to shoot them. And we ponder what the right amount of used is for a car. Do you really want that mint car or do you want some scruff on it in order to get the maximum amount of enjoyment out of a car? Plus, we do some math on why keeping a car in bubble wrap for 30 years is bad financial planning. This is the Smoking Tire podcast. Let's go. This is the smoking Tire. Let me set my chronograph. Hit the stopwatch. My analog show timer that says the show is starting now at exactly 10:55 Pacific Standard Time. Is this time or daylight time? Daylight savings Is winter, like. Yeah, summer. Summer is standard. I think it's right. I think it's ss Right. I think it's. I think it's summertime. Anyway, we've had. It's. Man, we had a nice weekend.

[Zach Klapman]

Specific standard camera can refer to a time zone, which is pst, but they.

[Matt Farah]

Use PST and pdt. Oh, they use Pacific Standard Time, Pacific Daylight Time. And I have some. I've had some really pedantic assholes fucking correct me when I've used the wrong term out of season, as if they didn't know what the fuck I was talking about.

[Zach Klapman]

PDT is North American time zone used from the second Sunday in March to the first Sunday in November. So we're in.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, so we're in dt. Yeah, see, you're right.

[Zach Klapman]

Pst.

[Matt Farah]

Who out there actually writes Pictures PDT in your shit instead of pst.

[Zach Klapman]

I've been writing pst.

[Matt Farah]

Let me tell you something. If you. I don't care what you write. I know what you mean. But if someone writes the wrong thing and you correct them, you're a fucking asshole. Imagine hanging out with that person like a PDT adhesive. But now we know Summer is a pdt.

[Zach Klapman]

I had a call recently for a road and track article. I'm working on it with a bunch of engineers from an oem. And I sent PST time because they're in Europe and they all showed up at the right time and no one corrected me saying, actually it's pdt.

[Matt Farah]

Oh yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And these people are just numbers and math from beginning to end.

[Matt Farah]

Was it like a zoom call? Yeah, well, it just goes in their inbox. Google can sort that there was still.

[Zach Klapman]

Still happy they show up. I'll tell you, I'll tell you afterwards.

[Matt Farah]

Why was it like 4 o' clock in the morning their time or something?

[Zach Klapman]

No, it was seven. It was 4:00pm Their time. 7:00am My time.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, all right, no worries.

[Zach Klapman]

There's some funny story for you.

[Matt Farah]

No worries. I thought I wasn't going to have much to talk about today. I was driving a Ferrari Roma Spider all weekend. There's a little issue with the car, so I can't review it, unfortunately, I'm happy to say what the issue. It's literally a brand new car. I'm the first person to get it on loan. They do the brake. Ferrari does their own break ins. So they loan the car out with a thousand miles. Right, that's smart. Yeah, probably. And so I got it with a thousand and you know, three or something like that. Interestingly, the car was stuck in comfort mode. You could move the manettino and it would say comfort, sport, race, wet, whatever, but nothing would change. So it was in comfort mode. So it was usable as a car. But I did not feel it appropriate to make a video, of course, I mean I didn't. You know, it's worth one sentence here. I mean this happens with any car could have an issue and so it's not the end of the world. They're gonna check it out, bring it back and I'll figure out when I'm gonna make a video like later in this week or next week or something. Neat car. Let's just say comfort mode. Not optimized for the total Ferrari experience. Sure, yeah, just like, you know, with the 911s. Right. Like that's the fuel. The comfort mode is pretty funny. You are in. It's an eight speed dual clutch and you are in eighth gear at 39 miles an hour.

[Zach Klapman]

Whoa.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, it's turbocharged, engines up, shifting in like 17, 1800. If you're cruising like, if you're. If you're just cruising. Right. Yeah. I mean, it will go higher, but.

[Zach Klapman]

It shifts like it's lazy.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And then there's no boost in there, so there's no power.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, yeah. And you know, you put it in manual and. And you can drive it probably. But the suspension also was only in comfort mode, so I couldn't do any of the sport functions. So Hannah and I went to the beach because that's what it was good for in comfort mode. Pretty much. So we'll do that. We'll get to that later. Turns out I got a lot of feedback when we talked about professional sellers versus representing the car. Generally positive reviews of professional sellers from people. The general vibe is the professional seller makes the process easier, saves time and energy, and ultimately brings more money than if the person had tried to do it all themself. So I think the person who was critical of that process and felt that it was untrustworthy, because if the person can't represent the car themself, then they're somehow hiding something. And universally agreed that if the owner pops up in the comments to fill in any questions, the. That, that's. That's as good. I mean, it's not. They're not hiding behind anything. But like.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, I saw another comment I thought was interesting, which is in support of using a professional. If the person's willing to pay for a professional seller, they also probably maintained it well because they clearly have the money to do it correctly.

[Matt Farah]

Right.

[Zach Klapman]

So that was interesting.

[Matt Farah]

I think that's probably mostly true.

[Zach Klapman]

I mean, there's definitely gonna be exceptions.

[Matt Farah]

Of course, I've had people who have paid me who then wouldn't do some of the things that I recommended that I thought would return more money. I've had people not pay to put new tires on a car, for instance. Whereas I think today's customer. If you're buying a car from the 50s or something, that might be different, but if you're buying a car that's newer than 2000, I think you're either buying a total project at project price or you want something that you in theory, could fly anywhere in the country and drive home.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

I think people don't like cars that are like 95% perfect. The reaction is sort of, why didn't you go all the way Whereas if it's 100% perfect, fly there one way ticket, drive it home, like my Bentley. I think in many cases that returns more than you invest.

[Zach Klapman]

I think I would say yes specifically with the auction buyer. I think if people are buying a car on local car.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

They're much more inclined to say, oh this has a to do list but it's going to be near my house and I. And they're shopping for that. If you're buying a car at an auction, especially when there's comparisons available literally on the website.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

They put new tires on it. I don't have to fly there, land and immediately spend fifteen hundred dollars on new tires.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Or if I could buy a $300 plane ticket and spend a day and a half driving it home versus paying two grand to ship it, you know, there's money there and I can have an adventure. You'd be surprised how many people, I mean you would really be surprised how many people buy cars at auction. And this is my personal, personal experience buy cars at auction. Nobody comes in person to look at the car during the auction, but then someone will fly in and drive the car home. And I, we haven't, no one's been like, I'm broken down on the side of the road but like so you have the confidence to do the one way trip but you, and you know, but you weren't willing to like go the few hundred extra dollars to get like a PPI done, you know, locally or something like that.

[Zach Klapman]

It's just the times 10 years ago that probably wouldn't have been the case. I think it'd be a lot more rare.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Or like, you know, fly to LA like the day before the auction ends and at least get eyes on it yourself. And like if it's not that good, like hey, you got a day or two in la, go get a nice dinner, go to the beach or something. Sure. Depends on the cost. And if it's great, you know, okay, you win the auction and now you're in la, maybe you drive it home, you know, maybe you write the check, you're then in there, you finish this next day and let's go people's bank.

[Zach Klapman]

Account and schedule whether they could just. Because if they, if they come here and they don't win the auction, they're.

[Matt Farah]

Like oh no, no, of course, of course, of course. Yeah, you've, you've invested in a plane ticket and a hotel room and your time if you then don't win the auction. That's of course true. But it's a gamble versus sending a trans winning from your couch and sending a transporter later. Or like. Or paying someone, paying a professional what could cost 500 to 1,000 to come to come do a PPI remotely because the car's got to get to the shop. So either either it's flatbedded or driven to a shop or a tech comes here. So that costs money. So it's just like, where do you want to put that money? As a buyer making an investment. True, dude. If a PPI the problem, when people get PPIs done and the PPI reveals an issue that maybe was not visible from the surface, right. A mechanical issue that you need a mechanic to see. Right. A professional, they then get mad, you know, as opposed to feeling relief that they now know this. And either they buy the car, they don't buy the car. But if they're bidding, maybe it affects their bid. Oh, that's an issue. It's two grand to fix that. Okay, let me cap my bid because I know about this. Other people might not know. They might overpay. So you have a competitive advantage. It doesn't necessarily mean walk away, but people get like, mad.

[Zach Klapman]

But it's. But by complaining publicly on the auction, are you then actually maybe scaring away your competition?

[Matt Farah]

Yep. Yep.

[Zach Klapman]

Because if you don't do that more often. Because if all you. If you go, I have this knowledge, but nobody else does. Someone over pays, you go, I lost this car that I knew I could fix. And sure, they'll deal with the problem. And that sucks to be them.

[Matt Farah]

People do that more often where they will. They will go back in the comments and they'll say all this stuff that they found with the car. Sometimes they are sort of down the middle accurate. Sometimes they try to make it seem worse than it actually is. And sometimes they make it try to seem like the seller is a liar. Because a mechanic found things that a seller either. That a seller might not have known about because the seller is just a regular person who owns a car. Right. Or even someone like myself or a high end, A higher end, like dealer might not necessarily know about some, you know, mechanical issue or wear item that's coming up soon. I mean, I'm not measuring brake pads before I put a car up. Like, just. That's not. Nobody does. There's commenters that are like, did you do a compression test? Like, why would I do a compression test?

[Zach Klapman]

That's not that it's not the easiest thing in the world to do. You have to take a bunch of shit apart yeah, my car. You gotta take a lot of stuff off to do that.

[Matt Farah]

I mean, if you're talking, there's certain cars where that could be justified. Really old cars, right? Yeah, really old cars. Really high mile cars. Cars that might be knocking on the door of like, like an air cooled car that's knocking on the door of a bottom end service. A compression test matters. Right. But like in one particular example, I was selling a car with very low miles that is not very old and has very low miles.

[Zach Klapman]

I wonder if the commenter was 85 and they're used to buying old cars and you'd always do a compression show.

[Matt Farah]

And like there's just no reason for that. And people think that sellers in general should be responsible for basically buying and then offering to everybody a PPI report, which is not what a seller is supposed to do. A seller is supposed to be transparent and honest.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

But if, if a mechanical inspection is warranted, whether it's a car or a fucking house or anything, the buyer pays.

[Zach Klapman]

For that, I think. And also if a seller got a ppi, there would probably be buyers that wouldn't trust it because they're like, this came from them. They might have obscured information unless it, unless there were problems that were divulged and they were like, okay, they told us about these issues and, and that if you want to move a car, if you have new tires on it, and if you are very transparent, then the buying audience is more likely to trust you. And I think that's, I think that's a good way to operate. You're very good at that. I mean, you take care of your cars, but you also lay out everything you've done, what was wrong, what might be wrong.

[Matt Farah]

Now we try to.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, I think that, I think that instills trust in the shopper.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. There's things we like, we don't like we might not know because there's only so much that we can know. You know, any car could have an issue below the surface.

[Zach Klapman]

Sure.

[Matt Farah]

And we're not out driving these things on the street, you know, we're starting them, idling them, moving them very, very short distances indoors. So we're not using every feature in the car very often, you know, anyway, we don't have to, it's. And this is not like a complaint. I'm just like, if you want to sell a car really and the car is 95%, you should do the last five. If you want to sell it at auction. If it's like a, like if it's got if it has old tires or worn tires, like you should put new tires on.

[Zach Klapman]

I remember as a shopper years ago, I was buying cars, but like, if there was a car that had old tires and people would say sometimes need to be replaced, tires a little old, I would skip right past that thing because I don't want to deal with it. I don't want to take on this additional cost. Now, I might have gone past some cars that were good, but you know, if the tires are really old, I go, this person's skipping maintenance in other places, dude.

[Matt Farah]

The same thing is happening right now. I can't say, you know, everywhere in the country, but in Los Angeles, nobody wants to. Everyone who's shopping for houses right now wants move in ready, sure does. Nobody wants. No one wants even really like a small project unless it's at a deep, deep discount. Every, you know, that's there's a lot of demand for like new build or gut Renault, like move in like pretty much fully furnished. Particularly after the fires.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

I mean, but even before the fires, this was a thing. And so I think it's, I think we're sort of in the same place with cars right now where people want like unicorns, but also unicorns that they could like fly one way and drive home.

[Zach Klapman]

That's a good point.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

People want easy because with, with houses you could have a small problem, you think, but then you discover it's a big problem, I think. I mean, I've never bought a house, but you have having proper inspections done, sometimes you need multiple people to come and do an inspection. Right.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. My, our house, we were fine. On, on my first building in Gardena, we got f ed by a really bad roof inspector that basically was off by what our roof needed by something like $300,000.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

He was all like, yeah, no, this can just be patched, like, no problem. It's like, actually we need to replace this.

[Zach Klapman]

I understand. You know. Well, like one of our friends, mutual friends, just bought a house last year and it's like a new construction, brand new, new development thing. And the whole house has a 10 year warranty.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

So you go, all right, I assume there won't be issues and if there are, they're taken care of by this person versus if you buy a house that has like, you're like, oh, there's a small bulge in this wall. And you look, you're like, oh, you've had water leaking for 15 years. They never addressed it.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

Or the house we lived in, in Playa that was like the plumbing issues actually revealed that this thing is over. Built on a single house lot.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Three partial remodels on top of each other. They just. They just gut remodeled that entire house. It's. I drove by. Oh, you drove by it. It's completely unrecognizable.

[Zach Klapman]

It looks very different. Yeah, but imagine uncoiling that barrel of snakes.

[Matt Farah]

I know. So, yeah, so yeah, people want. People want. Ready to drive, I think. But speaking of which, I was talking to Thad and Armin, our e46 whisperer. Whisperer photographer friend. Guys, we got to take a quick break from the show for True Work. Loving True Work over here. They keep sending me clothes and they are great. True Work is hell bent on creating the most technical, high performance workwear to in the world. The TrueWerk story begins in the Colorado mountains, where a trade worker knew there had to be a better solution than wet heavy jeans. And they were weighing him down. And True Work was born. Every TrueWerk product is engineered for maximum comfort, protection and efficiency with minimum bulk or extra weight. And that's what I love about the truewerk stuff that they sent me. They sent me the cloud shorts, which fit really good. Beautiful technical fabric, lots of pockets. A nice lightly aligned elastic waist that fits with my belt, holds all my things, and they seem like they would be great out on a summer hike. Also, they just sent me this sun blocking technical hoodie. It's very thin, like a base layer, but it's got a hood on it. So if I'm out in the desert shooting video or driving the spider on a hot day, it's got UV protection, keep me from getting sunburned, getting too hot. And man, it is nice. Soft, soft. Soft and comfortable. I love it, man. You know there's room in your life, right, for denim and canvas, but they haven't changed much in 200 years. And TrueWerk that upgrades your workwear by replacing traditional fabrics worn with modern technical fabrics worn by elite athletes. They're soft, they're stretchy, they're sweat wicking, and they are strong. They're windproof, waterproof, and have intelligently placed insulation for streamlined warmth. Right. Check out the full lineup and get 15% off your first order at truework.com tire that's 15% off at t r u e w e r k.com tire that's t r u e w e r K.com tire Got to give 60 more seconds, folks, to cramo. I love this Craymo. When I go out for, for a morning filming session, right, I Get up at like 5am I'm up on the mountains. I'm in and out of the car, crawling over, all over these hot cars, setting up cameras, getting back in the car. In, out, in, out, in, out. Now it's like 90 degrees now. I'm sweaty. Now I have to sit in the car all the way back to city and then do podcasts and office stuff afterwards. I don't have a time for the shower, right? But Kremo has got me covered. Their deodorant provides me with a 48 hour odor protection. Now I don't need all 48 of them hours, but I'll need four to six. And this more than covers that. Krameau products are barber grade, made with pride, professionalism and passion to guarantee quality without compromise. You can elevate your deodorant experience right now like I just did. They've got new signature scents, folks. The Italian bergamot, it's bright, fresh and robust. And then of course the Palo Santo. That's what I've been using. I love my Palo Santo. It actually, it replaces a cologne. You can wear it a little heavy bike and then your, you're good, you are ready to go out, not just ready to go to the office. I really like it helps me keep me going throughout the day when I don't have time for a shower. Kramer's using enhanced multi layered scent technology for a longer lasting experience. Lasts all day and they are really, really thoughtfully blending those ingredients. They're soft to the touch, they don't leave a residue on you and they smell delightful. You can get them now at target or target.com to find Cremo's new line of antiperspirants and deodorants in Italian bergamot and Palo Santo scents. Once again, get that Cremo at target or target.com. you know, down in Gardena, we have all this wall like, like so much gray. All that wall I built. And we're shooting so many cars now for these auctions. I was like, what if we did like a couple different like sets like in the corners. Like one could be white, one could be like IV or something. You could leave one gray for the industrial look. Thad was like, if you do the white one, you could do a white sail over it for like diffused and hot light.

[Zach Klapman]

That's a good idea.

[Matt Farah]

And I was like, I think it'd be really cool to actually have that. I just wouldn't want it to like look weird when customers are driving up and be like, what's all this wonky shit.

[Zach Klapman]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

You know, but we have all this wall to use, but it's all the same gray.

[Zach Klapman]

You mean having real ivy or painted ivory iv?

[Matt Farah]

No, real ivy.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, really, I'll make sure.

[Matt Farah]

But I would do real ivy in like, one area, the part of the wall that's not connected to the other part of the wall. And then do the back corner white and then leave the front corner, like, gray.

[Zach Klapman]

I think a white sail would be rad. Handy for interior shots. And maybe when there's no car there to make it not look wonky, you could have like three chairs, like outdoor sitting area or something like that. Yeah, but that'd be very.

[Matt Farah]

It'd be like the hookah lounge.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, but inside the beach club. Yeah, there you go. That's the Cabana club. Yeah, I think that's a good idea.

[Matt Farah]

I think. I think we could. We can work with this.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, yeah. Although natural light, but for shooting interiors, you just pull the car inside.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, for interiors. But for diffused, you know, middle day light, you could have a nice diffused. Amazing diffusion there. Yeah, I would. And you could just, you know, spray the sail. It's outdoors. You just power wash it to clean it.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, I bet it would wear out after a few years. Like cooking in the sun, you know, you have to replace it every probably three years. Like they'll.

[Matt Farah]

You think so?

[Zach Klapman]

Yes. The UV in this. In this.

[Matt Farah]

But if it's white, what color is it going to turn if it's pure white?

[Zach Klapman]

Oh, I don't think it'll bleach it. I think it will degrade the material till you have the stringiness. I'm just saying it'll be a wear item.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, that's true.

[Zach Klapman]

The UVs here is gnarly.

[Matt Farah]

Sure. Hmm. Well, so in order to figure out if that corner right now, Freddy's shitbox Audi is sitting in that corner barbecue car, Right. We should turn that thing into a grill. Like, literally, like, call Mad Mike. Be like, how do I turn an old Audi into a grill?

[Zach Klapman]

Is there an engine? There is an engine in it.

[Matt Farah]

No. I don't know. Oh, the hood is seized shut and I didn't want to, like, crowbar it open. I do not know.

[Zach Klapman]

You should just set like a gas grill on top of it, you know, the little, like, camping ones. And then send him a picture of just making burgers.

[Matt Farah]

So we're trying to see, you know, Thad had a good idea. He was like, phil, if you're listening to the show, my manager down at South Bay. I'm sorry. Thad was like, here's what you do. Take the COVID off that fucking Audi shit box that's already in the corner where you would be parking the cars for the shoot. And he goes, take the COVID off and have the guys set up a tripod and take a shot like every hour throughout the day to see how the light move. The natural light moves across it. And then you can make a. You know, you could do a thing and be like, all right, so the best time. Here's the best times to shoot. And maybe the sail would work between, you know, noon and four.

[Zach Klapman]

It's a good idea.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

You could just set a GoPro there on time lapse and just do. That's probably easy one every.

[Matt Farah]

Listen, it's like Brown M&Ms, you know, you got to pay these. You got to make sure these guys are.

[Zach Klapman]

If they don't have anything to do.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, sure. Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

But if they have stuff to do, you just go GoPro external battery power.

[Matt Farah]

Now I'm just making sure they have stuff to do at least once an hour.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

But yeah, I should. I should just mount a GoPro and let that spool. Yeah, it's probably a better idea. Yeah, it's probably a waste of human capital.

[Zach Klapman]

I would say walk over and just hit a timer.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. I shouldn't use the term human capital. It's a bad term.

[Zach Klapman]

Oh, okay.

[Matt Farah]

You know, because it's like human beings. Yeah, yeah. Because it like. It. Yeah, it's. I just. I just read about, like, a couple paragraphs about, like, why that's such a bad term. Not like I used it all the time before. I think that's probably why I just said it, actually is because I read a thing about why it's bad.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, the recency bias.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, you shouldn't say it.

[Zach Klapman]

Your brain's like, we got a new word. And then you go, wait. Actually, it's.

[Matt Farah]

Well, apparently a lot of big companies, and we've never. I've never worked in one, so I don't know. Have changed human resources to human capital, which is like a pretty up way to like, even like, re. As a resource is like, sort of like, people are a resource. Huh. But like, okay, it's a resource, you know, but people are. Capital is like, ooh, yikes.

[Zach Klapman]

Dictionary says it means the skills, knowledge, and experience possessed by an individual or population is resource or capital. Human capital viewed in terms of their value or cost. Yeah. You're just like, our total value of the humans we have.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Yeah, man. Let's not let companies do that. That's bad.

[Zach Klapman]

Can I rant about something for a minute? Yeah. The Mustang that Sarah and I were considering purchasing. Remember this? A couple of years, A couple months ago.

[Matt Farah]

Tell me that's the one I saw. And Bring a trailer. I saw one that was. That was basically like what you described on Bring a Trailer, A Shelby clone. White, blue stripes.

[Zach Klapman]

Let me look it up. I'll know in a moment. Unless they removed some of the.

[Matt Farah]

Will that make you madder? Less mad to know that it's. That it'll make me that bad?

[Zach Klapman]

It will continue to make me mad.

[Matt Farah]

Okay. I don't want to make you think about three. Three things at once, but as soon as I was browsing and saw this car. No, go to, like, whatever year it was, go by that maybe instead of GT350, just put Shelby or something.

[Zach Klapman]

Shelby clone.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, man. Was. Maybe it was on. Was it on Cars and Bids? I thought it was on Bring a trailer, because that's where I was listing this one. That. No, no, I swear I saw this thing. I'm not making this up. No. Okay. Okay. Forget this. We'll find it. We'll find it later.

[Zach Klapman]

Well, it wouldn't surprise me because what I found out, you know, is that a per. A person bought the car from this very nice woman who owned it.

[Matt Farah]

Mm.

[Zach Klapman]

They talked her down hugely from what she was originally asking. No, but this per. This woman wanted to make sure the car went to, like, a good home. And that's why our very good friend was helping her with that. And they had shooed away some buyers that were just, like, had 400 car collections, weren't going to drive the thing, you know, because her husband drove his car a lot. So this person talked her down a lot. I mean, 25%. So she let it go. It was on sale six days later. So I just. And I don't know the name of that person who bought it. I just. If you're listening or if you know, person. You're a shitbag. That because you took this person, I'm sure you told them that you were gonna drive. And I think it just sucks to just, you know, just flipping it. Yeah, it's just shitty.

[Matt Farah]

Six days.

[Zach Klapman]

Six days.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. Didn't even register it for themselves. Probably just, like, scooped it.

[Matt Farah]

And for how much? For the same amount that she originally wanted, right?

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

So basically, this person, he took it out of her. He just took it right out of her.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. You know, this person knew what it was worth.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And then just Nudge, nudge, nudge. Till they sold it for less and then goes, now I can get what it's worth.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And I think that's just, you know, it's personal story, so I'm sure it happens all the time, but it just had a. Yeah, it's a very bad.

[Matt Farah]

It's not like you're putting any money into it. No, you're. You're detailing it and taking pretty pictures, maybe that's all. It's on a dealer website, like on a Facebook market.

[Zach Klapman]

Facebook site, like a group is where it was posted a few days ago. I can't find the ad now, so I might have sold, but I just wanted to announce. That's really shitty.

[Matt Farah]

That is extremely shitty. Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And honestly, if the price had been what it went for, it's possible that Sarah and I would have. I would have been able to talk her into it.

[Matt Farah]

And you actually, we would have drawn.

[Zach Klapman]

It for like years.

[Matt Farah]

You would have done the thing that you said you were gonna do. Yeah, yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And that the woman wanted it.

[Matt Farah]

God, that fucking blows.

[Zach Klapman]

That's just lame. If you're out there, you're lame.

[Matt Farah]

Guys, we gotta take one more quick break for Mud Water. Listen, Mud Water, it's a. It's a different thing. It's a totally different thing. You might have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about right now. But hear me out. Mud Water is a cozy mix of cacao chai, turmeric and adaptogenic mushrooms to help you feel focused and balanced and not wired. Right? Because I've been there, right. I talk about my anxiety and jitteriness that came from drinking caffeinated drinks. Right. I was drinking some light roast. It was intense. Right? But what you want are the benefits of that coffee beverage, but without the jittery, without the crash. Right? And that's where Mud Water comes in. Every ingredient in mud water is 100% certified organic, non GMO, gluten free, vegan and kosher. There's also no sugar and no sweeteners. All you do drop the powder into your favorite mug, pour some water in it, give it a mix. Some like to go a little wild, Add a little creamer, honey, CBD oil. I'll do a drop of maple syrup. That's right, I said it. Little grade A, light amber, grade B, medium amber. The maple syrup is secret. Actually, that's a good one. I shouldn't even be telling you this, but it's pretty fire, to be honest with you. And the best part about Mud Water is it provides sustained energy delivery, but without the spikes and crashes of coffee. Mud Water does have some caffeine in it, but they do have a caffeine version also. But it's not as much caffeine as coffee. But every ingredient in Mud Water is serving a purpose. The cacao and chai have a hint of caffeine and hot chocolate flavor. There's lion's mane for focus, cordyceps to promote natural energy, and chaga and Reishi to support a healthy immune system. I'll be honest, I have no idea what a Reishi is, but it sounds good. Sounds legit. You know what I'm saying? Then you can get the Matcha starter kit. You can get the Turmeric starter kit, the Rest starter kit. They all use different starter kits for different functions. You start with your desired outcome and you work backwards with Mud Water. That's what it's about. So are you ready to make the switch to cleaner energy? Head over to mudwtr.com and grab that starter kit today. Right now, our listeners get an exclusive deal. Up to 43% off your entire order plus free shipping and a free rechargeable frother when you use Code Tire. That's right. Up to 43% off with code Tire. T I R E at M U d w t r.com after your purchase, they'll ask you how you found them. Please show your support and let them know that we sent you. Keep your energy natural and refreshing all year long with Mud Water because life's too short for anything less than clean, delicious energy. And now back to the show I was thinking about like what is the right amount? Because I have two cars that I've listed now. They're live right now. One has 1200 miles and one has 6000 miles. These are very low mile cars and these aren't my cars. So anything anybody says about them I don't take personally. Unless someone is insulting how they are presented, which nobody is doing. But I was thinking about what the right amount of used is. Because over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over throughout the car collecting history. Low mile cars bring more money, right? Even to the point where sometimes they're so low mile that you would have to do horrifyingly expensive service to get them driving. And usually with almost all cars, the person who let it sit all that time and not driving it, they're usually not the person that money is. The storing of it for all that usually sort of, they could have put the money in the stock market or something. Buying a car to not drive it usually won't beat the stock market. But cars with very low miles almost always, 90% of the time, sell for a lot more money than cars with medium or high miles. And yet, you know, there's, there's a lot of times when people buy those cars with very low miles, they go, I want the best example and I want to drive it. And there are a very few number, small number of people where that's actually the case. I'll point to Zuckerman. He really, he will help spend on that car, and then once it's in his hands, he won't treat it like it has that low miles on it. I can't do that. Other people can't do that. The gentleman who's M3, I'm representing, he thought he wanted that, and then he, he got it and he realized, oh, my God, like, this car is actually. I thought I wanted to what it just feel like what it was like to daily a brand new 05 M3, exactly how I would have modded it in high school. And then he got it and went, holy shit. This is now a precious. Same lesson I learned, by the way. This is now a precious thing. And I can't do that. It's too nice to do that. And maybe there's a level of wealth. Maybe there's a level of, I don't know, separating your brain or whatever. Maybe it is a level of wealth where this is such a little dent in your wallet that fuck it if it goes down half. But, like, even rich people don't like the number to go down.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. That. A lot of rich people, they hate that.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. How awesome would it be to have, like, the most depreciated F40?

[Zach Klapman]

I think. Yeah. It's a special person. Yeah. It's the Mr. Bean thing, you know.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

F1 that's worth $20 million, you've crashed twice, you're going to send it, continue to do so.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

I think that's just rare that the person has the mind where they're. They're not. It's not disrespecting like the mechanic, the machine. You're just using it for what it's really for.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And you don't worry about the money, even if it really matters to you or doesn't.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. My M3, I could have afforded to take a 20 or $30,000 hit on that to beat the shit out of that car. I could have, but I.

[Zach Klapman]

But you really care about the condition of Your vehicles, you like to keep all of them very clean, kind of tip top shape sort of thing. So I don't think it would matter if the car was worth 10 grand or 80 or more.

[Matt Farah]

Like you're always still keep it nice. Yeah, yeah, maybe. I mean maybe. But, but I, but like there's a, there isn't a right amount of wear, miles and depreciation like my, the Ferrari 328 was there 45, 40,000 miles. You know what, you know, decent but not great paint. That was a real. Use it as a car and don't really think too much about it. That was nice. I enjoyed that. Vinnie Vinatra, he seems to be having a fucking great time with his Ferrari. I mean buying a beater Ferrari is a great idea. Yeah, I mean that's. And fucking homie shout out to Scott over in the UK with Rata Rosa and his fucking. Oh yeah, his, he's got a fleet of beater Ferraris. That guy has a great time over there. You know like those guys all seem to be have Ferretti. He buys real high mileage Ferraris. He seems to be enjoying them just fine. These people aren't thinking about, about the money on the other end. It's a great, it's a fabulous headspace to be in, isn't it?

[Zach Klapman]

Absolutely. Yeah. I think before you even bought the car you've accepted, you won't make money on it.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And maybe you assume you'll lose money so then you're free.

[Matt Farah]

You know, isn't it funny how the people that are so precious about losing money on their car, on their Ferrari or their Corvette or their whatever, their nice car, they're so afraid of losing money on that car, they won't think twice about the depreciation on their like brand new Tesla, you know, like, or their brand new luxury SUV or like mid tier amg, not real AMG car, they're taking a monster dump on their daily and like rubbing this other car with a diaper.

[Zach Klapman]

It would be really interesting to ask a wealthy person that question the next time they're like, I don't want to drive it much because the miles. And you go okay, what's your daily? And they'd say, they'll say any of those cars you name surely. And you say all right, you are going to lose 40 grand in the first year of owning your new tycon.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

Does that not bother, like why does that not bother you? But this does.

[Matt Farah]

My guess, it's because it's a lease and it's somehow Justified as like a business expense or something or blah, blah, blah.

[Zach Klapman]

That's true.

[Matt Farah]

Thinking of it as a depreciation. If you think of it as a lease payment and a long term rental, you can put it in a different file in your brain.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. I mean, men are great at compartmentalization, truly. So yeah, if you look at it like you're like, well, that's a new car I lease and it's almost like paying rent. Like I have to, but if I elect to drive this collector car and I, if I, it's my fault this goes down in value. But over here it's like I have to, I have to have a car.

[Matt Farah]

Everybody'S car go down in value.

[Zach Klapman]

That.

[Matt Farah]

But out here, me and my genius over here, we're gonna beat the system.

[Zach Klapman]

I think that's right. Because some people, you go, some people have an F40 they haven't lost money on. So I don't want to be the idiot, the only one who loses money by 20 miles. But everyone has a depreciating MQB. Whatever.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. But what I think the problem is, if you don't put miles on it, you still have to service it, you still have to insure it. And God damn, does it suck to do those things when you're not driving the car. I mean, and it's just like, if you can afford the entry point into that kind of stuff, man, you can actually afford to take the depreciation hit. Like the hit of incremental mileage use.

[Zach Klapman]

I'm not saying this is also something I remember was that documentary video called Black Smoke. I think like 10 years ago it was all about the GNX.

[Matt Farah]

The GNX, remember that? Yeah, Black Smoke.

[Zach Klapman]

That might have been, I think it was black smoke. And some guy had one with 300 miles that like in his garage in a bubble and he had all these framed pictures about the GNX New York dude. Like through and through.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And he would trailer it to shows in a vehicle that was probably depreciating and then he would trailer it home. Yeah. And he just loved it so much he was afraid to drive it or wanted to preserve it. But to your point, he's probably has it insured.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

It's gotta be stored. He's gotta service the thing and he never gets to enjoy this thing that he loves.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. We were just at the Culver City car show. We went last weekend. Really kind of interesting. Really interesting spread.

[Zach Klapman]

Yes.

[Matt Farah]

If you go to like Malibu or Good Vibes or any of the other either. Like, let's Just say wealthier or younger hipper cars. This was, it's downtown Culver City and it was a true old school car show. So lots of muscle cars, lots of 50s, but also a whole bunch of low riders. Just stuff that was hopping, stuff that was really looking good, Great paint, bunch of motorcycles, some trucks, some Land Rovers and stuff. Like three or four, like British roadsters shout out to my client Tom here at the shop, who just like entered his McLaren new exotic car in the whole thing. Wow. Yeah. I mean, maybe there was like one other one somewhere, but I didn't see it. I just saw his is McLaren. He was a good sport. He was like, yeah, they let me enter it, so whatever. Cool. I get front row parking. But There was a 93 Mustang Cobra there with 84 miles on it, and it just.

[Zach Klapman]

84.

[Matt Farah]

You know, I get it. It's probably, I don't know, it's probably 150 grand. You know, for someone who's, who's sort of, I guess, thinking a little smaller maybe, you know, that car was, I think, 13,000 bucks or 14,000 bucks in 1993 or something like that. It was not a lot of money. And yeah, money in, money out, like that sounds like a lot, but that thing took up a lot of space. You had to store it, maybe insure it, maybe maintain it this whole time, and your money would have made a lot more money in the market.

[Zach Klapman]

True. But I do understand the psychology of people, especially if they've been through recessions and they just don't trust the stock market for many reasons. And they go, I understand cars.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And I will. That's what I'm gonna go with. And so to them, even if you show, don't show them the math.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

But it, to them, it goes, I, I know this, and I know this will be worth a lot because I know it's cool.

[Matt Farah]

And there's someone, I mean, maybe that person really does just enjoy cracking a beer in the garage and looking at it for a little while. And, and the person, I didn't talk to the owner, but the guy next to him said, yeah, he, he drives it. The guy drives it like a half a mile, you know, loop around his house, like around his block like twice a year.

[Zach Klapman]

So he's done that 168.

[Matt Farah]

Wow. I just like, you know, I hope that makes that guy happy too.

[Zach Klapman]

You know, I hope he's not looking at going, I wish I could drive this, but I shouldn't.

[Matt Farah]

Cause like, just like, let's pull up where we at? Can we go back to bat for a second. Just pull up 1993 Mustang Cobra results. Because, like, what is one with 20,000 miles go for 5,000 miles? You know what I mean? Like, what is the real difference between under 100 miles and 20,000 miles in this car? Okay, so sold. Sold. Sold. God, these are bringing fucking loot. Oh, those are ours. They're all ours. Wait, Go to. Not an R. No, it wasn't an R. I just delete the R.

[Zach Klapman]

Oh, I didn't see that.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Okay, here we go. So sold for 12. Here's a 12,000 mile is 47,000. Okay. There's a 5,000. Mile is 69,000 and go down 228 mile, bottom row bid to 68. Okay, so that one didn't. That one didn't get there any other ones.

[Zach Klapman]

But this is a perfect example of the sadness. These are both black.

[Matt Farah]

Mm.

[Zach Klapman]

And one has 228 miles on it. And one has 5,000.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And they were. I mean, this person with the 228 didn't sell it a month apart to the same price, basically.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

One month apart.

[Matt Farah]

So those 5,000 miles were free.

[Zach Klapman]

Yes.

[Matt Farah]

Right. Go down. Is there one. Is there another comp. That very low mile that soldier. 15,000 miles is 52. All right. None with, like, no miles.

[Zach Klapman]

A lot of people bidding too, but, yeah, taking that reserve off.

[Matt Farah]

Okay, well, so, I mean, I. I think on the right day. On the right day, one with like, literally, like red, red, gray. I think it's probably worth 70, you know, on a. On a great day. Barrett, Jackson. Oh, there. That one right there. If that's 20, 23. 358 mile bid bid to 71,000. So that's what I'm thinking. I think 70 is the number for that car maybe.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

But, like, that's just not a great investment over that long of a period of time to not fucking drive it.

[Zach Klapman]

It's not.

[Matt Farah]

Clearly. Look, dude, the. Clearly the Smart. Oh, here, look. 60. Oh, that's a car. That's an R. So a Cobra R, 66 miles is 200 grand. But this was not an R. This was a regular Cobra. Ours are different. There's a lot of Rs with no miles. So many cobra Rs in 93 were fucking bought and bubble wrapped.

[Zach Klapman]

Wow.

[Matt Farah]

So many.

[Zach Klapman]

So that's been happening for a long time. I feel like I wasn't aware of that phenomenon.

[Matt Farah]

Bought and bubble wrapped.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. Until like, the Ford GTs and stuff.

[Matt Farah]

I really think I always was told this and maybe Someone. The first car that I really feel like was collectible from new in the bubble wrap sort of way was actually the DeLorean. Like there's a lot of no mile DeLoreans in a way that there really aren't any no mile anything else's. Especially of that era, Countaches and Ferraris. Like there's a couple that have showroom miles on it. But percentage wise, way more deloreans and nothing before that. Everything before that was at least driven. Kinda.

[Zach Klapman]

You think that was the movie effect?

[Matt Farah]

Maybe. Maybe. Or like. Yeah, could. Could have been.

[Zach Klapman]

Huh. Interesting.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. If someone has an example of cars that were bought and parked before 81, before the DeLorean, I'm not sure what it is. I mean some small percentage of Italian cars, but many of those were bought to drive. I'm sure there's some like brass era cars, but even then, not really people. Those were people. Rich people's. Just cars.

[Zach Klapman]

Right. They were new. Yeah, I know. I don't think collecting those existed yet. I'm sure there's one exception. But like there were so few of those.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. And yeah, because the most. I mean the most valuable stuff didn't. That's the most valuable stuff today didn't become the most valuable stuff until the late 90s and 2000s. So like early 80s was very infancy of mass car collecting. There were always a couple people that had huge car collections. Right. But people smaller car collections and individuals with a special car or two special cars that wasn't like. And certainly cars that were bought and parked early 80s that started. I think. Yeah. So anyway. Yeah. What did we learn about this? About. For the Mustang Cobra, if you had bought it new and put 20,000 miles on it and sold it for something in the 50s that. I mean, you know, you're doing 1,000 miles a year. That's driving that car. That's enjoying it.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, it is.

[Matt Farah]

And that's keeping things moving. It's keeping things serviced. You might have good tires on it. Still incredibly low mileage.

[Zach Klapman]

And even if you've driven 5,000 miles in that time, so you're only doing 500 miles a year or something. But more than this half mile loop.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

You're not. I don't think you're leaving any. Maybe leaving three grand on the table based on what we've seen here, you are leaving only a few thousand dollars and you've definitely spent that insuring it, parking it, servicing it for that long.

[Matt Farah]

I'd like if anyone out there is a data nerd and wants to Find a few examples. I know we have some fans that are into this sit and someone we had, I forget we've had people give us some great examples before and we've had had these assignments and I forget the name of the person who did it and I'm sorry for that. But some good examples. Where had you bought the car new? It has to start with someone who's pretty much bought the car new. Right. Or you have to at least start with the, the MSRP new. If you had kept it in bubble wrap, if you had driven it a reasonable number of miles versus if you had driven it like a bunch of miles. Let's you know, if you do, if you do like less than 500 miles and then let's say you know, 5,000, 20,000 and maybe 50,000 miles if it exists. Like what does the mileage curve look like and what can you buy to get the most miles for your dollar? Like where does the miles matter the least? Lotuses, Elyses? Nobody gives a fuck about the mileage on an Elise.

[Zach Klapman]

Any sporty Honda, I'm sure.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, there's so many cars with floors, Land Cruisers, nobody cares. I sold that 300,000 mile Land Cruiser for $55,000. Had a replacement engine, but still.

[Zach Klapman]

Well, Camden Thrasher, the amazing photographer. Yeah, he has a Land Cruiser that he has been using as his like desert. He does a lot of photography of fighter jets out in the desert. But it just crossed 450,000 miles. I think he put 150 on there. He's definitely had to do some maintenance. But not on the engine. It's always like an ABS controller or a suspension sensor that went out and got caked with dirt. Yeah, those things just go.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. So anyway, that was it. Just it. It does make me sad to see cars with, with really no miles on it because it's all I. Maybe for GTs, but I really don't think so. I think buying the right color combination for GT returned way more money than putting than keeping it in a bubble wrap.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

If you bought like a quicksilver and put 5 to 10,000 miles on it versus buying a red and putting it in bubble wrap, quicksilver wins.

[Zach Klapman]

I would also say, especially if you bought the car the first year before, if you had an allocation of something and you didn't buy it, if you bought, you know, this Mustang Cobra in 2021 when the collector market was at a peak and it had no miles, like then maybe driving it would actually impact it a little bit more likely it's just the timing thing. But if you get an allocation on something. Yeah, you're driving it for free. If you know it's going to be that popular and people are that excited. If you already know it's a collector car.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

Then the miles are free.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Think about miles being free when you.

[Zach Klapman]

Were and person out there. When you were a kid into cars, was your dream to buy one and have it appreciate in value and flip it, or was it to drive this?

[Matt Farah]

Dude, it's a no. It's this weird man capitalism thing of you wanna be able to brag about. It's not even about actually making the money. It's a mental thing. I mean, like, I understand a car is an investment. You don't wanna lose money. But in a real world, you can't go into a car purchase expecting to make money. That's fucking delusional. Most of the time. Unless you're talking about like seven and eight figure cars, that's like pretty delusional. Most of the time.

[Zach Klapman]

Most of the.

[Matt Farah]

Most of the time. Most cars you're not making any money. You might be able to get out for what you paid, but not, you know, not cover your insurance, your gas, your expenses, your storage, all that shit. If you're really honest with the cost, most of the time you're not making money. But like, yeah, just think in terms of smiles, man.

[Zach Klapman]

Wasn't one. I mean, as an exception, wasn't Harris pretty good at that because he would get the cars as early as possible, he'd kind of drive something cool for six months and then. And I'm not sure if he was doing it on purpose to.

[Matt Farah]

Well, if you're capable of the hype economy, I'm not talking to you. I mean, if you're capable of a.

[Zach Klapman]

Hypochondriac, but you might be someone who also goes, all right, this new GT3 is going to be super sought after. But I got an early allocation. I can drive for six months.

[Matt Farah]

I talked to a dozen of my clients that rotate through the newest anything. They trade it back to the dealer, they have arrangements, they go, you're gonna, I'm gonna get you this allocation, let you build it. I'm gonna let you build the next thing too. You know, that'll be two years. You can put 3,500 miles on this car and I'll buy it back at this price and get you the next one. And then they roundy, roundy, roundy.

[Zach Klapman]

Are they making money on that buyback price or are they just breaking even?

[Matt Farah]

Well, they'll Buy it back on consignment, sell it to the next person for 100 over. On the flip, they. They're still delivering new ones, but nobody can get it. But they've got this one here with 3,000 miles on it. Take it home today for 100 over and then split skis and then it's a nice little what have yous I.

[Zach Klapman]

Would get in that circle.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. It's called staying rich.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

Dear Rusna or Galpin. Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

The cycle of allocations.

[Zach Klapman]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

But nobody wants to say they lost money.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Like everybody. Just us. We need to make money on our cars because we're smart investors. We bought the right car at the right time.

[Zach Klapman]

Well, whatever it is in the human brain that makes us not want to admit we did something wrong.

[Matt Farah]

Right.

[Zach Klapman]

I mean, it influences everything.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

You know, politics being one of the most important and unfortunately consequential versions.

[Matt Farah]

But, like, the coolest person in the world would be someone who bought an F40 for $2 million and over the course of a couple years put 75,000 kilometers on it and sold it for $1.3 million and went, well, that was fun. Next. I mean, that guy just found a really entertaining way to burn a million dollars.

[Zach Klapman]

Sure. Because there's no way. When that guy's dying and he's on the hospital bed next to the other guy dying in guy two put zero miles on his F40 and he sold it for two and a half.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And Guy A is not going, oh, I could have made another 800 grand if I hadn't driven the car.

[Matt Farah]

You know what I think? I think, I think it's the difference. I think we need to recognize the difference between winning cars and winning capitalism. You win cars when you, like, do the coolest thing with the car.

[Zach Klapman]

Of course.

[Matt Farah]

And Jerry said it, too. It said, like, he who, he who gets to heaven with the lowest miles on his 9 11, like, loses. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Of course, that's, you know, that's Jerry. So he says it more in fewer words and more efficiently and better than.

[Zach Klapman]

Me, but he's probably practiced. It's a great point because again, when you're a kid and you're watching a car commercial that's exciting, or a car chase or whatever it is, you're getting excited by watching the car doing a thing.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

I'm sure there are very few people as children that were like, oh, they're just reading Sports Car Marketplace, watching things trade.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

I mean, that's got to be 0.0001% of the car fans out there driving is what got us into cars.

[Matt Farah]

It just circles me back to there is a car that I could buy. An example of any car I could buy that would be too nice for me personally to be okay watching it, watching it deteriorate. And that could be because I love cars a lot and I just want them to be nice. Or it could be that I mentally am not okay with literally driving the value out of a car. We could do it. We buy beater cars. So. Right. Okay, so at our income level, we.

[Zach Klapman]

Could treat a 5000 Hyundai Accent.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Or maybe let's call it like a 2 from all cars. 3. Let's call it 3 or $4000 car for us. We can comfortably drive that to zero.

[Zach Klapman]

That was also. Yeah. Because we also had a sponsorship. But I know what you're saying, right? Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Farah]

But like even if you saved up for a couple months and bought that car for funsies that Crown Vic, you would feel comfortable saying goodbye to that money and just doing, you know, if the fucking chassis fell out of that car, you'd leave it where it lay.

[Zach Klapman]

When I had my Crown Vic, like I would do dirt u turns. That's true.

[Matt Farah]

I'm talking to the wrong person.

[Zach Klapman]

Right. I would literally slide it around because I knew that one, it was in destruction. But two, I'm not waiting to sell this and make money on it or, or my M3 versus your M3.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

It's just, it's when you get into it, what's the car for? Do you. If you go into it, assuming you'll make money, you have a problem, I think.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And if you go into it, assuming you're going to lose money, it's freeing.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

It still sucks, but it's freeing.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. I think down the road on the radar is, is like a, you know, like an air cooled 911 with like 200,000 miles on it and a giant binder of service history and like super rock chipped paint.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. And the other version of this is something that speaking Vinynatra does bernou people that take their somewhat fragile cool car to the track and drive the shit out of it and it explodes and they go, well, all right, I'm gonna fix it and get it back out there. Like I don't. I stopped taking my car to the track when it broke something every time I slid it. And now I'm too, I'm too nervous.

[Matt Farah]

But are you nervous about getting home? Are you nervous about not having a daily driver or are you nervous about the Financial implications. Like, if you had a. If we had a trailer and you trailered your car to the track and it broke and you could at least get it back here, I think that would you feel a lot better.

[Zach Klapman]

One concern, because, you know, riding in AAA truck all the way from Button Willow home is gonna be just brutal on its own. But I think a lot of it is that's.

[Matt Farah]

I've done it before.

[Zach Klapman]

I've done it before.

[Matt Farah]

It's hard.

[Zach Klapman]

I did it with a guy one time, my Crown Vic it through a helicoil. Basically, it ejected the spark plug from its mount. And the guy I get in the truck with the dude and he's driving and he's like. His head's bobbing. He goes, man, I've already been working 12 hours and I got so nervous and I just chatted, let me drive. Yes. I just chatted him up the whole time to keep him awake. And then once he dropped me off, I was like, well, I hope he doesn't crash. But part of it is my. My frugality of if this thing has a catastrophic problem, how much is it going to cost? And that's going to feel bad because that impacts other things. I need to plan for this year, you know.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, there may be a beater race car in our future. We'll see. Depending on. Depending on what happens at Willow Springs, there may be a beater race car in our future. Yeah, I think it would be nice to have a sort of, you know, a really scruffy version of something that you didn't have to think about all that much. It may be too hard for me, though. I'm not sure I could do it. The 328 was pretty. Was. Was a little scruffy. And I think that that was a. That was an appropriate amount of scruff. Never had to think too much about driving that car.

[Zach Klapman]

I think it depends on the car's purpose. If we. If we had a, let's just say, Miata beater race car. Well, one, this thing is mostly indestructible. Two, the parts aren't that expensive. And we also are accepting that its purpose is for us to go racing. So we are agreeing we're going to drive it hard. Two redline. That's what it's for.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And no race car. Okay, fine.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. You put a roll cage in a heart and harness, you're in a different world of mentality there.

[Zach Klapman]

You have to accept that that's what it's.

[Matt Farah]

No, I'm talking about collector.

[Zach Klapman]

Oh, okay.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, I'm talking about you have a car in your garage on the weekends, you know, do you want a car that's mint low miles, you know, but you have to take extra care of the wear and tear. Or do you want something that's a little scruffier and you can kick the tail out once in a while.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

If you don't wash it that week, you know.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Thing. Yeah. But I think a lot of people think they want like, they think they want a race car on the street and they don't really want a race car. They think they do same thing they think they want. And I sometimes me, I think I want this mint one because that's what happened the, the E46 from all cars 3. I was like, well, this is the shittiest one.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

What if I got the best one? Turns out it's not fun to buy the best one. It's fun to buy like a pretty decent one. That's actually where fun is.

[Zach Klapman]

Yes.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Anyway, should we go to the people?

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. Do you want to do throw to the Theon thing?

[Matt Farah]

Oh, yeah. We had some extra radio. We did extra radio. I went out with a car called the Theon Design. It's a reinterpretation, reinvigoration, rejuvenation of a Porsche 911. There it is. It's blue. And I came back and I did a podcast about it and then we had to hold it because there was some sort of embargo. So if you're, if you're on the audio, this will be pretty seamless. But if you're in the video, my wardrobe is about to change. 9 11. That blue 911 that was outside.

[Zach Klapman]

I was wondering about that.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, that I, that I drove. There's the pictures on my Instagram of is there. It's blue. It at first glance looks. It does look like a Singer at first glance. At second glance, less so much. I think it's. It's not unattractive, but it doesn't have some of the real wow factor that I get from the detail work on the singer. It's a 964 based 911. It's got a 4 liter air cooled motor that makes 400 horsepower, 6 speed gearbox. It's a carbon body and this one was weird. It's a carbon body so it's very light. But if you scroll and look at the interior, it has like really cushy power seats that are apparently reworked. Original 964 seats. But they kind of look like when Those guys build 32 Fords and put like Chevy Tahoe seats in them.

[Zach Klapman]

It did look like that at first glance.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

I think part of it is the color of the seats. For those listening, it's like a dark gray but with white inserts, which to me looks very Ford, very boat, just not expensive.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, the leather does feel nice, but that's the look I got. Having said that, those seats are really comfortable and the ride quality of this thing is really good. And so if I wanted to do like 2,000 miles in an old 911, this is the retiree grand tourer version of that experience. It was very, very comfortable.

[Zach Klapman]

What was the noise like inside? Because it's a light car, it's carbon.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. But it has a full back seat, full leather back seat that matches the front seat. I didn't take a photo of it, but it's there. It has, you know, two modes, quiet and loud. And the quiet mode is pretty reasonable. It's not significantly louder than what you'd get from a stock 964 with an exhaust. The loud mode is loud. And as you can see in this photo, it has a dual exhaust.

[Zach Klapman]

I was just noticing that. That's a little odd.

[Matt Farah]

So the 993 Turbo had a dual exhaust. In fact, all 993s had dual exhausts. Most back date. This is a back date style car, like a Singer classic. Most back dates go with a center exhaust and actually the center exhaust gives the car a sort of rasp and a high pitched sort of howl. The dual exhaust doesn't have that. This car has more of a cami thundery boom, which they say they did the dual exhaust for aesthetic choices, which is fine. They free to make that choice. I honestly don't think it sounds as good as a center exhaust. The center exhaust would sound better to me. They are saying that there's a very lightweight sort of purist version that they're doing at some point that will have the center exhaust.

[Zach Klapman]

I wonder if the electric active exhaust requires this side exit situation.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, well, it does. I mean, pretty much the valve is either muffler or muffler bypass. So I'm not sure it does, but that's what they said. It rode well, it was balanced, the inputs were good. The brakes, which are 993 RS brakes did feel very nice, although they were a little bit squeaky for a streetcar. But the engine's tuning was not great for a 4 liter compared to a Gunther or Singer was not that powerful. But it also didn't run that Good. It had a couple of hiccups, it had a couple of backfires. There's a knob with four settings. There's like comfort, sport, sport with throttle blip and race. Now this is an NA engine. There's not a lot you can do with four modes. Now the customers, apparently this is a customer car, they wanted it. Comfort in race is all you need. The sport didn't really do much and the throttle blip was not a modern throttle blip. So if you wanted to go from five to four, it didn't blip it and hold it in the right place to match. It just did a voom one blip.

[Zach Klapman]

So you catch it right there and.

[Matt Farah]

There was a delay. And so if you don't time it right, it'll still do the blip even if you've let out the clutch. So a couple of times I found myself when trying to use that mode, I had shifted too fast and it did the blip after I'd already let the clutch out and the car jerked forward, which is bad because I was on a downshift, I was braking.

[Zach Klapman]

Right. That is unintended acceleration.

[Matt Farah]

So it did that twice.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, that needs a clutch sensor.

[Matt Farah]

They were just sort of like, it's what the customer wanted. And I go, man, at this level you need to be able to tell your customer, no, the customer doesn't get to call the shots at that level.

[Zach Klapman]

Well, or if the customer wants auto blip like a 370Z or what number of other cars do it. Of course it needs to be that good.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And then it needs to all like the 370Z doesn't add throttle. Once you have the clutch out, it knows the clutch is out. So if the customer says, I want this, you have to go, okay, we will figure out how to make that. Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Farah]

So that was, that was frustrating.

[Zach Klapman]

Wow.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, that one, that part wasn't great. And look, ultimately while it was other than that software thing, it was executed fairly well. It's clearly a luxury spec car. I mean, it's weird to have a carbon body and then have hundred pound power seats with extra leather. That's a little strange. But like, okay, fine, whatever.

[Zach Klapman]

Do it with McLarens all the time.

[Matt Farah]

People do. But like, I don't know.

[Zach Klapman]

Oh, I get you.

[Matt Farah]

It's a choice. But like, fine. Not what I would do. But the issue, this car, this is 400,000 British pounds plus a car, plus a 964. So that's a huge amount of money. And although it is cheaper than a Singer it is cheaper than a Gunther. You could probably get one faster. They said they built, like, 16 of these things, and you could probably have them build something that was lighter and, you know, a little different from this one, because it seems like they're willing to do whatever the customer wants at that price point. Dude, a 964 RS is, like 300. A 993 RS is probably 400 or 450.

[Zach Klapman]

And you don't have to explain who built those.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And no disrespect to Theon, like, this is something that every aftermarket resto mod builder, whatever you want to call them, like, has to go through.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

Of making a name for yourself, reinforcing that name and making it really, like, known across the land.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

So it's a little rough in the beginning.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. I will say that if. What. If what somebody wanted was a luxury car, that this is a luxury car version of that. That type of build. It's definitely not for me, but, you know, I'm sure some, you know, I don't think they need to build a ton of cars, so I'm sure somebody will find, you know, something they did.

[Zach Klapman]

The structure feel super solid. The way the roof did it was.

[Matt Farah]

Put together really nicely. Yeah. I mean, the build quality was nice. Yeah. It was tight. There were no rattles. It was good. Yeah. It was actually assembled very well. And the pieces were of a. Were of a high quality. But there was also some noticeable bits from before, like the. Not just the blinker stock. Wasn't just a stock 964 blinker stock. It was the one from the donor. Like, I knew I could tell it was. And it was, like, a little sticky, like, just like, you know, stuff like that.

[Zach Klapman]

Right.

[Matt Farah]

And there was a. The window switches, which, on a normal 964, would be up right on the top of the door by the front. Now they're moved to the center console in front of the handbrake, which is fine. I have no problem with that. They're just on either side of the.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

There you see it. And they're what I call the SEMA switches, which are those round metal with the ring lights. You know, when I drove Gunther's first car and I told them about the SEMA switches, they now make their own switches. And he was like. I think Peter was pretty hurt when I talked about the SEMA switches. I don't think he liked hearing that at all. And so they changed all the cars, and so now they have, like, real, like, with these milled buttons and levers they're amazing. And so I told these guys, like, look at this price point. The SEMA switches maybe are no good.

[Zach Klapman]

Because those switches when they came out were amazing. But, yeah, they're everywhere. Yeah, you see them everywhere. And you're selling a car that is rare and this expensive, dude, they're in.

[Matt Farah]

Like, can ams and shit.

[Zach Klapman]

Like, come on. Like, I like your switches, man. I got those in my can am r.

[Matt Farah]

But the leather work was nice. I mean, the build quality was excellent. And. And, you know, there's room for more of these companies. Why not just a small volume of cars? Who gives a shit? But, yeah, and, like, full disclosure, by the way, this car is stored here, so a bunch of people, this is their press car. I am directly profiting off of this company because they are paying me to store their car. But they asked me to have a go and give them their honest opinion on the car. And, like, everything I just said, I said to them because they came with us. So none of that should be a surprise to them. Maybe we need to try a different car that has a different focus. I mean, I told them that, like, you know, maybe they need to, like, not let the customer make so many choices. I mean, dude, Lee Keane wouldn't let me do shit.

[Zach Klapman]

Guess what?

[Matt Farah]

I bought the car anyway.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, true.

[Matt Farah]

Like, you know what? Like, I wasn't happy that he wouldn't let me have my way, but he stood his ground. I fucking caved. I bought the car anyway. And he was probably right because if someone says they've got a keen safari, they know what they're getting. It's like a standard, right?

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

So, and this is supposed to be a brand name product. It says Theon on the back of it. So, like, you know, like most with a Singer classic like you. Yes, they evolved through different engines and there was a five speed and then there was a six speed and. And whatever, but, like, they only let the customer make so many choices.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, yeah, very true.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

I think it speaks well that if the construction is good, and I like the idea of the carbon body, it works really great for roof. Although that's a unibody. Or this is too. It's just like these little details, but they do matter. And at that price point, I think it's hard to figure those things out when you've sold the car. You're trying to sell the car and you're competing with a growing number of companies that sell six to seven figures.

[Matt Farah]

Nobody in the car world. Not nobody. Few people in the car World give a shit more about details than vintage 911 people. You're not. You're not going to find. I mean, it's them above them is like pebble beach judges. Other than that, that's it. They're going to look at every aspect of this car and go, does that. Like, they're gonna look at that car and those seats, they're gonna go, those aren't 911 seats. I don't care. That's like a Chevy Blazer seat.

[Zach Klapman]

Well, it's funny that if they are, in fact 911seats, the way they're trimmed out.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And that could have been the customer's choice, you know, for this delivery, which, I mean, the exterior is also like the stripes. Not for me, but I think for this much money, if you get in there and you look around and like, the buttons, the interactions stand out. And it's the interactions and the things you see the most frequently. The buttons you touch, all that stuff like that almost matters as much as the carbon body, because the carbon body is great. And you'll feel the benefits in the handling, but it'll kind of melt away eventually. And you could get pretty close with like a really, you know, good setup car. But everything you touch. And then if you go and sit or look in a Singer and you're like, well, their buttons are perfect and these things are perfect.

[Matt Farah]

And above the radio on this interior, there's four knobs. You can see those four knobs. The one on the left is a push pull. The one immediately to the right of that is a click left to right. The one to the right of that is more of a spin. And then the other one is a click left to right. So they're not. You don't do the same thing with all of them. And they're not labeled, so I don't really know.

[Zach Klapman]

Labels are important. This is the case with that ironwork Chevelle as well. They had these really cool milled buttons, these four switches, I think in the. In the center console. But none of them were labeled in any way. Yeah. And I guess if you own the car, you know, but it also is just like this sea of unmarked aluminum.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

You need a little something and you can do it in a way that looks awesome. And I think actually up values that switch in the car.

[Matt Farah]

C. Pagani. Well, yeah, Pagani switches are labeled. They got this. They got metal switches all over the place. And they're all. Fuck. You don't. You don't have to be be told what switches do in a Pagani. It says it on them. Yeah, costs money, but you got to do it. So anyway, check them out. It's t h e o n.design there's photos on my Instagram and yeah, that's a thing there you have that. Let us go to the Patreon, as always, if you want to ask us questions for the show, if you want to get the show live, if you want to get the show early, if you want to get the show without ads, and if you want to get extra show, all those things, they're available patreon.com the Smoking Tire podcast. Not to mention if you want to get either of the final two colors of the notice Canyon Watch, which are coming. The first one will be at the end of May. You must be a patron to get it. That is a thing. And so let's go with the people. Zach's underdrive pulley coming in heat. Have there been ever been press cars you wish you spent more time with or press cars you wanted to get rid of asap?

[Zach Klapman]

I mean, definitely. Yes to the first one, of course.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, definitely. I would say, like, like going on a press launch, sometimes you don't actually get to do all that much driving compared to having a car here for a week where you get to live with it and use it every day just as a car, I think you learn a lot more.

[Zach Klapman]

So, yeah. But I'd say anytime we've had a McLaren of any kind, I have always been sad it left.

[Matt Farah]

Well, that's the. The other one is like, is like you wish you spent more time with. Like, does that imply that there's more to learn or I'm sad it's gone because it's awesome and I just want to keep it.

[Zach Klapman]

I'm taking it as I'm sad it's gone and I wanted to drive it more.

[Matt Farah]

Yes. All McLaren 7 Series cars I wish would stick around for twice as long.

[Zach Klapman]

Same with any V12 powered Ferrari Fair.

[Matt Farah]

Cars you wanted to get rid of. I mean, no, not really. We're sort of at the point early when we felt like we had to take any car that was available. And we ended up taking a lot of stuff where it's like, why are we reviewing a Honda passport? I mean, it wasn't like we wanted to get rid of anything. Like, I don't think there's been anything that we've personally gotten that's been like that horrible.

[Zach Klapman]

No, but there's cars that when they left, I went, okay, okay. I wouldn't seek that Out. It's not on my list of things to buy if I ever get rich or whatever. Yeah, that's the first list of what do I want to spend more time with, because it's what I'd buy if I could.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, there's. I don't. Maybe not bad, but like forgettable. There's a pretty good amount of forgettable.

[Zach Klapman]

Forgettable or a lot of performance. SUVs, as impressive as most of them are, are not what I want from an suv. So therefore I go, you know, I don't want to get rid of it asap, but I go, okay, it's not how I would want a truck.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Maxfield says why don't more automakers have built in dash cams? Considering how many cars have 360 cameras now, it seems like this would be a huge selling point and could potentially make cars cheaper to insure. I don't know that's a fair question. I mean, gm, you know, in the performance data recorder, I think you can activate that on the street. I don't think you need to be on the track to use that. You can turn it on all the time. So GM has it in the. In Corvettes and black wings.

[Zach Klapman]

I think this would be a question for a David Twig or something. I imagine you don't have to respond to that question. Also, David. It's probably expensive because you need memory and you need processing power. So you have these 360 cameras on these cars, but they're only working with Tesla being the exception when you're parking. Right.

[Matt Farah]

So they're.

[Zach Klapman]

They're off most of the time. And when you turn them on, if they're not recording, that means they don't have to capture that memory, that feed. They don't have to process those graphics like all of those things to capture that video for a six hour drive.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And record it the whole time. You know, it requires computing power they might not want to deal with.

[Matt Farah]

That's true. Talking to the PGMs PDR people and also the Cosworth people who do the software for the Blackwing, you know, those cameras are still only 1080. And I made, I sort of made fun of them to their face a little bit. And I think maybe it wasn't fair. And I was like, I went on the ZR1 launch in 2019 or maybe even 2018, and I asked if the cameras were 4K then and they said, oh, they're 1080 because they need to work in the heat and the duty cycle for like 10 years. And I said that was five years ago. And they were like, yeah, that hasn't changed. They're like, that's still exactly the thing. And this video that it's recording is really never designed to be seen on anything bigger than a laptop screen. So like what is, you know, it's for analyzing data, not for like making Top Gear. And I was like, you know, essentially the amount of processing power that you would need to do the real time telemetry overlays and all that stuff with 4K cameras is high.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

So it doesn't seem like that much when you're looking at a dash cam. But the fact that if you built that same dash cam into the car, it would have to be connected to all this other stuff.

[Zach Klapman]

Yes.

[Matt Farah]

And it would make it infinitely more complicated.

[Zach Klapman]

Plus you know, the dash cams, they, they, they live out in the air.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

Right. So they're cooling themselves. And we've had this problem with gopros where if running 4k especially they overheat. And now if you want to encapsulate that dash cam as part of the car, it is not going to get the airflow. It might overheat. Now I do think I could see this happening in the future for sure. I could see the technology advances enough and the car companies realize they can say comes with dash cam when they're using the, they're, they're just using the system that's already in place for radar crews and accident or not accident stuff like parking things, but we're just not there yet.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, let's see. Mr. Wagen, I know big SUVs aren't your specialty, but the GMC Yukon Denali has just had pricing released in Australia after being converted to right hand drive, priced at 175k Australian which is 110k US dollars. Competitive models would be the X7 or GLS 450 diesel Mercedes. What would you pick? Man, I could not see myself driving a Yukon Denali for 110 grand versus a Mercedes or a BMW. I mean I'm not like a huge X7 or GLS fan, but they have to be nicer products than a fucking Yukon Denali.

[Zach Klapman]

I haven't driven a Denali in five years and that's when I was like filming their B roll. And they, they look cool and they're very solid and probably will need less of a service life than the other cars they listed. But the wow factor of just getting in them is not there. Versus the X7.

[Matt Farah]

I mean I drove the Badger, I haven't Done the Denali, but I've driven the Escalade, which in theory is an upgrade from the Denali. I wasn't that blown away by it. I mean, maybe it's because I made a lot of Ubers, but like, I don't know, it doesn't, it doesn't feel. Not for six figures. Well, those don't feel like six figure vehicles to me.

[Zach Klapman]

But I think the pricing in Australia is just different because they have to. I don't think they're built there, so everything's more expensive.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

But I think if I can get, you know, if I can get the same thing across, you know, if I can get an X7 or a GLS 450 and with nicer features for the same money, I would definitely go with one of those. Especially if it's a two year lease purchase thing that I'm gonna get rid of after a couple years.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Suck it up and buy the Linglong. What does that mean? I don't know what that means. Google that. What's the most interesting lost media car? Cars like the Chiseta V16.

[Zach Klapman]

You always say suck it up and buy the Michelins. Linglongs are the very cheap. A cheap Chinese tire.

[Matt Farah]

That's pretty funny. What's the most interesting lost media car? The Chiseta V16. Mazda Furai Ascari A10. Cars that were crazy but not mainstream. Well, the Mazda Furai was a. They only made one. There was a. It was a concept. It did. It did drive, I think. I think it ran. Ascari a 10. They did build a few of those. That was, that was a real car. Chesada, they built a few of them as well. I mean, the, the vector, the, you know, the vector W8, the original vector is, is amazing in that it's like such a piece of junk. But it looks so funny. I can't help but look at one every time I see one at a show or something. They're such silly cars.

[Zach Klapman]

The scar A10 was kind of rad.

[Matt Farah]

Iscari A10 was like a Lotus Elise on steroids. Right. Like an exige. On steroids. Kind of isn't that. I haven't looked at one in a while. I remember it was on Top Gear, they had a yellow one and whoever, whoever. I think, I think Clarkson drove it. Really liked it. I like the Venturi 400. It looks like sort of like a French version of a Ferrari 348. Those are really neat cars. I've actually driven two of them, strangely enough.

[Zach Klapman]

Oh, so the Scar A10 was a road going version of a race car that was in the Spanish GT and it used a. The BMW S62 V8. So I think that's the V8 from the.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, that's the M5.

[Zach Klapman]

E93 M5, right? Yeah.

[Matt Farah]

Isn't the E91 S65?

[Zach Klapman]

S62 is. I think you're right because it's a five liter and that's from the M5.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, yeah, the. Nothing gets weirder than the Vector, especially the early one, the, the transverse engine ones. Barbecue sauce on Matittis says at one point Continental was its own brand apart from Lincoln. We're all aware how much the newest Continental flopped. But if they split off again like Genesis, maybe they could go after the ultra market. I don't see it, man. I don't think that any American car maker. Wait, any. I want to say anything. Not. Certainly not the big three. Nobody at the big Three really understands luxury or has really demonstrated any interest in trying. Except I haven't been in the presence of that new Cadillac yet.

[Zach Klapman]

But I will say I think the Lincoln exterior design right now is really good. I think their SUV is very nice looking and the sedan I thought was pretty cool looking as well. 2024. I want to see what their sales are doing though.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, I mean they have.

[Zach Klapman]

Their sales were up 20% in 2024, year over year.

[Matt Farah]

That's new. They had two or three new models.

[Zach Klapman]

Nautilus and the Aviator. I mean they're good looking SUVs, but I don't think, I don't think this is the time to split off an existing American company and say now this is our pinnacle luxury version.

[Matt Farah]

Isn't Genesis like in the shitter right now?

[Zach Klapman]

I don't know.

[Matt Farah]

I think there were some recent stories about Genesis that were not looking very.

[Zach Klapman]

The reliability long term is not good.

[Matt Farah]

And I think, I think heavily impacted by tariffs.

[Zach Klapman]

That would make sense.

[Matt Farah]

I think that the prognosis. Yeah, I would not. I would not. Yeah. They're not the role model right now I would use. Unfortunately, no one has yet to truly execute the early 90s Lexus formula in full. Acura, Infiniti, Genesis, none of them have done it.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. It'll be interesting to know how much each of those spent because we know that the Lexus, they spent like a.

[Matt Farah]

Billion, over a billion dollars in 1989.

[Zach Klapman]

All the cars lost money for a while, right?

[Matt Farah]

I don't remember exactly. I don't want to say the wrong thing.

[Zach Klapman]

That's true. I think they were just, they're very. The development was huge, expensive, so. And now go read a book called.

[Matt Farah]

The Relentless Pursuit, which is about the development of that car. Christian says, what seat is the most comfortable S Class coupe? Bentley or Rolls Royce?

[Zach Klapman]

Bentley. In my recent memory, if we're talking about.

[Matt Farah]

I haven't been in that Maybach convertible, that new one yet. That could be very good. But Bentley seats, very, very good. See any car. Liang Ku, I think I'm pronouncing that right. Any car is a car that. Sorry, what car is built like a tank but doesn't look like it? And what car looks like a tank but isn't built like a tank? How about one? The Rezvani tank, which is a Jeep Wrangler, basically.

[Zach Klapman]

I would also say like a new Hummer EV looks like a tank. But most new cars are not built like tanks because. Because there's so much. So much of the material is meant to compress or splinter to dissipate energy. That's why every car accident looks like a confetti party happened there.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, that's intentional.

[Zach Klapman]

That's why, like, nothing's really built like a tank because it's all meant to crumple.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. I mean, cars that are built like tanks that don't look like it. Like a Volvo 240 sedan is a very tough vehicle, as is like a Mercedes 190 from like the early 90s. Like a 91, 92, 190E. That's a pretty tough sedan as well.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, you need to go to 90s where they knew safety tech but the materials hadn't. Things were still made of metal for a large part. Those are kind of tank like, but don't really look like it.

[Matt Farah]

Samir here, breaking the car. Most of the cars that I've driven that have drive mode selectors have struggled to feel the difference in ride and handling between comfort and sport. Most of my experience come from BMW and Mercedes. However, I've driven a few other sporty cars and still struggle to feel a difference in ride and handling. What are some cars you can name that have a drastic difference between sport and comfort drive modes when referring to ride and handling? Well, first off, drive modes are not always linked to suspension modes. And there's a lot of cars that have drive modes but that don't have adaptive suspensions. So, you know, even you're talking about BMW, Mercedes, you don't say what specific models, but like, if you're talking about a somewhat entry level, E class or C class or A class or whatever, almost anything below, like An S class will not necessarily have an adaptive suspension, so your drive mode might just be really changing the shift points and the throttle sensitivity. Now, if you're talking about M3s and M5s and AMG cars, then there's settings for shocks and there's settings. So, I mean, I assume. I don't want to assume that you know that, but many cars that have drive mode selectors don't change the suspension at all. So make sure that the problem is actually that you're not trying to feel it in the wrong car. Okay. So if you want to feel drastic differences, you can seek out a Corvette with a Z51 pack and magnetic ride suspension that will have a very drastic difference with the ride and handling. I mean, this isn't exactly relatable, but Bentleys have enormously huge breadths of talent, as do cars like a 911 Turbo. Has a pretty good spread. McLarens, I mean, have an incredible spread.

[Zach Klapman]

Anything with Mag ride also.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, I mean, I started with Corvettes. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Corvettes is. Is probably the most accessible place to feel that difference.

[Zach Klapman]

I was responding to the chat, so I missed.

[Matt Farah]

That's okay. That's okay. You didn't. You. You knew what I said, so it's fine. But yeah. Enrico Palazzo wants to know how Tay con is pronounced. It's pronounced Tay con. You can say. I don't think anyone really gives a. If you mispronounce it. And I will say Taycan once in a while just for funsies, because why say words the same every time? Nothing means anything anymore. The technical term is taycan.

[Zach Klapman]

Eminem got very rich and famous by twisting how words are said.

[Matt Farah]

Right. He named. He rhymes orange with stuff.

[Zach Klapman]

I know. That's a good video.

[Matt Farah]

Beneteau driver said, last episode you said something interesting.

[Zach Klapman]

Thanks.

[Matt Farah]

No, I said the E Tron was a good car, but a bad ev. Other than range, what makes a good car a poorly executed ev? I mean, I just think that compared to the Taycan, the E Tron. Oh, oh. The E TRON SUVs. I think EVs that are based on being adapted from gas cars are better than dedicated EV platforms.

[Zach Klapman]

You think EVs that are adapted like.

[Matt Farah]

I think like for instance, like the Hyundai Kona EV vs the Hyundai Ioniq 5. The Kona is a gas car with an EV powertrain versus a dedicated EV platform. The dedicated EV platform will return a better EV experience.

[Zach Klapman]

Yes.

[Matt Farah]

Than one that started as a gas car. And the audi e tron SUVs are on this platform. That was a gas car platform compared to their next gen cars, which will have their own platform. That was what I meant. So, like. Yeah, they just. They're not as, like, thorough.

[Zach Klapman]

I mean, they can't be. They start with constraints, whereas the other ones are from a blank sheet of paper. And they can figure out everything. Exactly. It's all optimized to be an EV.

[Matt Farah]

I'm so over cars. In 50 to 100 years, will the division between electric and ICE cars be the same way we think about fuel injection versus carburetion in the last 40 years? No. I mean, you're still pumping gas. I think the mechanics of how the car is refueled are just so different.

[Zach Klapman]

The propulsion is ultimately the same between carbureted and fuel injection. It's just more efficient with fuel injection.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. I mean, you'd like to think that people who are younger would be more accepting of EVs than people who are older and who are resistant to change. If you grew up around EVs, they're not as weird or stigmatized, I would hope. We also thought that about racism, like 10 or 15 years ago, so.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah, depends on what people are taught at home. That's really the ultimate.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. I mean, I think filling up an EV now is sort of like filling up a gas car was in, like, the 30s, except we have electronics to find the stations, which makes it much, much nicer. Instead of like, you drive over that.

[Zach Klapman]

Mountain, you know, go to the pharmacy and ask them for ethanol, for a.

[Matt Farah]

Bottle of ethanol or whatever they got. Yeah. So let's see. Dre from Houston says, I'm a fan of Doug. Proceeds to shit on Doug. No, but have you seen the type of Porsche owner he describes? Oh, this. Oh, this is a Porsche owner who's obsessed with their options and specifications on their build. I mean, I don't know anyone who's like, that obsessed with it, but like.

[Zach Klapman]

Well, Dre goes on like, I don't see that in Houston. I don't see that as the current stereotype. I would. I read this earlier, like, Doug also might live in an area that has more of those people versus if you haven't cast a wider net in a different city, then there's less of the, like, oh, I specified this vent thing.

[Matt Farah]

I mean, there's definitely. There's so many Porsches in LA and in California. I think people want to personalize them. And so on the one hand, you have, how is mine different from yours? We Both like the GT3. Okay. But how is mine different from yours?

[Zach Klapman]

Sure.

[Matt Farah]

So you have that. And then there's some people that want a one up. They want everything. They want the chroma flare and some. They, they, you know, they won't, they won't say they're proud of it, but they want to tell you that MSRP started with a four or a five. You know, hey, I got more options than anybody else. You, they, you know, these guys get addicted to allocations. Oh, now you can get the special wishes. They wouldn't even let me get the special wishes. Oh, I got, I got painted fucking, you know, seatbelts. Oh, they wouldn't even let me get that. How'd you get that? You know, and it's like it stops being about the money because they're all so rich that it just starts being about what would they let me get that they wouldn't let you get?

[Zach Klapman]

Right. So I wonder if the population, the number of 9, 11 owners in La Area, SoCal Area, is much larger than in Houston. And therefore you need these more nuanced areas of separation.

[Matt Farah]

Sure. They're very popular cars here. And so how is mine different from yours becomes an important topic of conversation. And I don't know anyone that's that insane. I mean, I know a few like, I mean, rightfully so, right. But like our friend Bo Bachman over at Galpin, like he like invents colors, like good, you know, good for him. He's having a good time. Like, I'm not hating on that at all. I don't. When we go see people at car meets and stuff, they're not really talking like that. They might talk about it once when they buy the car. Oh, look. And here's what I got. And then after that it's. Well, what color is it? Oh, it's Dalmatian blue. Cool. Looks great. And then it sort of ends. But there's definitely like, those people do exist. They're just like not in our all the time social circle.

[Zach Klapman]

True.

[Matt Farah]

But like that's his rich guy collector shit. You know, they're just, oh, you know, it's keeping up with everybody. And canyon collector says a couple people we have. I have at least four people who've emailed me that are going to get all five of the watches. So I assume this is one of them. What were some of the other colors that you wanted to see the dial in? But I have a prototype of a frozen berry metallic dial that I might wear once in a while. It seems like maybe pebble beach this year will be the right time for that watch. But I didn't think it worked as well as it does on the car. So we neglected to not do that. We thought about a purple that we ended up not making. My mother loved the prototype. I gave it to her for mother's Day. She was very excited. She has a piece of unica and that teal that we did for the giveaway for the blood drive that our new friend Scott out in New Jersey won after donating blood. You know, it was a great thing that we did doing the giveaway and several people that signed up for be the match have ended up matching and donating stem cells. We actually, we did a lot of good there and raised a bunch of money and all that was great. I kind of wish we could have made that dial because it was beautiful. That teal dial was fabulous. And if I knew we were gonna keep going, I probably would have found another way to make a special watch to give away because I promised Scott I would never make the color that that was gonna be a one of one forever. But anyway, that was another one. But yeah, the mother of pearl and the British racing green with guilt are gonna round it out. And then I've actually was talking to notice guys this morning about what the next watch will be and I have some ideas. I think it could be very interesting. Let's see. Bad gardener says. Did something happen that make you stop talking about your speed of travel in terms of 13, 14, etc. Did you get a better lawyer? I think I used to do that, huh? Yeah. I mean, I think as you get older, there's certain things you kind of grow out of. One is maybe wink, wink, bragging about speed on public roads. I also, you might notice, don't do very many burnouts anymore. There was a big burnout period in like 2010 to 2014 or 15, and really no burnouts anymore. Might have to do a burnout for funsies next time we get the appropriate vehicle. But it's been some time. Upper Big Bazonga's Canyon Road. It's working. I like that. How livable and intuitive are the haptic controls on the Taycan now that you've had it for a while? So I'm doing a video. When are we shooting it? Thursday. Zach, is that what we said? Wednesday. Thursday. The six month update of the Taycan is coming up. It's been five and a half months. By the time we air the video, it will be six months. So we should include that in the video is how the haptic controls. Honestly, the only thing that's really a haptic Control in my car is the climate control. Everything else is either on the steering wheel or on the touchscreen. And the climate control, we really just leave at 71 and hit auto. And so I'm not messing with it all that much. I will say that if you're the kind of person that messes with your air vents a lot, those digital touchscreen air vents will drive you insane. Yeah, fortunately for us, it's not that big of a deal. We sort of found our preset and left it and now it's just like auto, and we really, like, almost never touch that panel at all. But if you're playing, if you. The digital vents is not an improvement over any kind of a system, and.

[Zach Klapman]

Those will surely break at some point.

[Matt Farah]

I mean, that's just crazy. That's a bad system. But everything else is through the touchscreen. I will say that scrolling through the serious stations on the touchscreen kind of sucks, but the steering wheel controls do a lot with the volume in general. I really like using that car. The downsides are far outweighed by the upsides of driving that thing around every day. Yeah, Big Ben says. I read that Kia is launching a GT version of the EV9 3 row SUV, complete with the synthetic sounds and gearbox. I think Kia is going to kill it with this. Something practical for the wife and kids, but halfway fun for me. Why is no one else giving their EVs this tech? I think they will. I think it just takes, you know, they saw it last year. I think it'll take a couple years for it to be copied effectively, because the people who copy it, they can't just copy it, they have to improve it. So they have to first think about how they can copy it and improve it. And I think Porsche is probably in the best place possible to improve it because they have an entire history of car sounds that they could record and load and gear ratios and power to weight ratios and I mean, they have all kinds of data that they could do to make it so cool. Now, I don't think you need your EV9 to sound like a Ferrari, but once you decide that you're going to put that tech into your ev, it's pretty easy to spread it throughout the lineup. And there isn't really any reason not to. They're putting paddle shifters on the fucking steering wheels anyway. You got to use them for something. Prashan says. How much of an effect do modern tires have on lap times? A Civic Type R on cups is close to a997 GT3RS, despite being down on power to weight, how much could something like the old GT3 or scud close the gap with modern supercars with no changes other than the tires? They just did this. Carrera GT just ran the Nurburgring gen. Can you find the time difference? I think it was, I think it was Jorg that did it because they're, you know, Porsche is giving new tires to Carrera GT owners. I'm pretty sure Jorg Bergmeister ran a.

[Zach Klapman]

Lap on the new tire shaved 16 seconds.

[Matt Farah]

So there you go. 16 seconds off the Nurburgring and that's Carrera GT. Yeah. So huge. I mean a huge difference.

[Zach Klapman]

I think that's how much that matters.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. I don't know if you would factor that in, like. Yeah, I mean I guess it depends on where you were starting before, how much you would gain with new tires. But that car is 20 years old, so a lot, you know.

[Zach Klapman]

Let's see. Yeah. In 2003 they ran it and then in 20 and then in 2013 they ran it with a set of super sports. But now like they're running it on these. 16 seconds is huge.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. Two more and then we are done. So. Angle of the dangle. Have you ever tried really hard to talk someone out of buying a car that you. You really didn't want them to buy? My son just got his learner's permit and wants his first car to be a 2013 WRX. That's a bad first car.

[Zach Klapman]

It's just too fast probably. Yeah, I hate to say it and be that person but like it's pretty, it's pretty fast, very safe, safely built, good construction, crash worthiness.

[Matt Farah]

What they should have is a XV Crosstrek. Probably no turbo, manual.

[Zach Klapman]

Na, like the old one?

[Matt Farah]

No, no, like the, the. Not the.

[Zach Klapman]

Oh, sorry. When you said yeah, I was thinking svx.

[Matt Farah]

Oh, an svx. Yeah. No, no, the Crosstrek. Yeah. Like they should have like n a.

[Zach Klapman]

Four cylinder or regular Impreza. It's just. But a Crosstrek is a super safe car.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah. You got a manual and a Crosstrek you can still, right?

[Zach Klapman]

I think so.

[Matt Farah]

I think you can last one and. Wait. What? There's a bunch more but we'll save them for the next show. Angle of the dangle. Oh wait, no, sorry, my bad. Shep went for a backroads drive yesterday in my996 Turbo. That sounds like a delight. It's on a Semi Rural winding two lane road. Speed limit 35. Most people safely drive around 50. SUV ahead of me was going less than 30 for several miles, it seemed like they were lost or looking for house numbers. I waited a mile or two and then safely passed them on a double yellow when I found a stretch that was visible and safe to do. So a pickup truck behind me caught me several miles later, flashing lights, giving me the finger, presumably upset that I passed this car. Am I the asshole? I'm aware that what I did was technically illegal. Well, I think, I think you got to reap what you sowed. I mean, I think would I do. I am. I don't. I'm not going to convict you of a moral failing there. I understand. I think if you really did have a visibility to make a pass and they were going very slow, you've got a very fast car, you could probably scoot around that truck safely, even if it is technically illegal. And I, I would not convict you of a moral failure for doing that. Having said that, if someone else saw you and got shitty about it, well, you did the thing, didn't you? You know, so like, I don't necessarily think that's an appropriate reaction to that. But like, I don't know, like I. I guess I could, I could see maybe why the person was upset.

[Zach Klapman]

It also depends on, look, your definition of a safe area to pass them. It could be very different from that trucks or different from our definition. Like I don't know how long was it a straightaway that was half a mile long. Huge viz. I mean if a pickup truck or a box truck could also pass them. Yeah, I feel like there is this universal. We've witnessed this in the canyons where cars going super slow and when like the whole population's annoyed, sure. But if you had a very short slide straight and you dropped a second scooted aggressively and had to like dive in and, and did something that that pickup truck thought was very risky, then I could see why they would get shitty about it.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think, I think you maybe pick the wrong guy to do that in front of and, and that. That sucks. But that might happen. I mean, fortunately it was just honking and waving and fucking giving you the finger and not brandishing, you know, or so or something worse, which, you know, I don't know if you saw that video from last week of the guy with the motorcycle. I mean someone. There was an altercation on a highway between a car and someone on a Harley and the car straight up like hit the guy, sent him in the bike flying across the road and then dipped out. I mean they caught the, they caught the driver like he's going to jail for fucking felonies. Yeah, for sure. But like, yikes.

[Zach Klapman]

There's a responsibility. That's horrible and like, just abhorrent. There's a video from a few years ago from the 14 near us.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And a car tried to swerve to hit a motorcycle. The car accident, like, missed the motorcycle.

[Matt Farah]

I remember this one.

[Zach Klapman]

The K rail flipped itself down the road.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a good one. That was a good karma. A good karma one.

[Zach Klapman]

Yeah. I would say to Chef, like, you, you broke, you did do something illegal, but you also, you also don't know who's in the truck.

[Matt Farah]

Yeah.

[Zach Klapman]

And they might be ultra sensitive to these sorts of things. And they view that road as their home. That's also a thing that happens. And they're like, I'm the policeman, you shouldn't be doing that. And so who knows?

[Matt Farah]

So that's. I mean, that's. The other one is sort of like where, you know where you're going to pull a move like that. Like, if there's people and houses around, you know, that's maybe. And like in Shep's comment, it says that they were doing less than 30 for several miles and then says they waited a mile or two. I don't think a mile or two is enough time before doing a double yellow pass for someone going under the speed limit. I might wait a little long, personally. I would put up with a little more before I pulled a double yellow pass. Just me again. I'm not convicting you of a moral failing here, but I would probably wait another mile, three, four miles.

[Zach Klapman]

Maybe there's a dotted coming up. Maybe there's a pull out coming up, something.

[Matt Farah]

But it's okay. You got flipped off and you live to drive another day. Thank you, everybody. You are excellent podcast audience and we appreciate you very, very much. We will be back later this week with more smoking tire podcasts. But thank you to our patrons. We're putting up this video. Oh, I don't even know when is this airing? Not till next week or Thursday. When is this airing? I don't even know. I don't even know. I can't even promote anything because I don't even know when this is going up. Probably right on time for the tariffs to change again.

[Zach Klapman]

Well, now, yeah, now they're relaxed again. They're relaxed as of today.

[Matt Farah]

Good, isn't it? Good. Good thing we didn't talk about it on the podcast last week because by the time you put the fucking show up, it would be dead segment. Death. Yeah. We love you guys. See you later. Bye.