A New Crusade

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Snare – Episode 4: "A New Crusade"

Date: July 7, 2026
Host: Maggie Rulli (ABC News/20/20)
Main Theme:
This episode investigates the aftermath of Chris Tapp's conviction for the 1996 murder of Angie Dodge in Idaho Falls, the emerging doubt about his guilt, and the relentless fight led by Angie’s mother, Carol Dodge, to uncover the truth. Through new allies and expert reviews, Carol’s pursuit pivots from vengeance to advocacy, questioning interrogation practices and the integrity of Chris’s confession.

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Overview of the Episode

• Explores the evolution of Carol Dodge’s role—from grieving mother certain of Chris Tapp’s guilt to passionate advocate for his exoneration.
• Details how advances in DNA evidence and scrutiny of interrogation tactics called Chris Tapp’s conviction into question.
• Spotlights the community’s changing attitude, expert involvement, and the legal battles to revisit the case.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Lingering Question of DNA (00:32–03:01)

• Context: Chris Tapp was convicted in 1998 despite his DNA not matching evidence from the crime scene.
• Central Dilemma: “Who did this DNA belong to?... But without a match, that question would remain unanswered for years.” (Maggie Rulli, 00:49)

2. Carol Dodge’s Relentless Pursuit (01:38–03:48)

• Carol Dodge, Angie’s mother, becomes active in seeking answers—even approaching defense attorney John Thomas.
• Notable Quote:
  “Carol would wander around and talk to anybody that she could talk to. ‘What have you done about Angie’s killer? Why are you not on Angie’s killer?’” (John Thomas, 02:03)
• Carol reviews hours of police interviews herself, searching for leads.

3. Questioning the Confession (03:57–07:04)

• Discovery: Upon reviewing interrogation tapes, Carol feels something is “wrong”—that Chris may have been coerced or manipulated.
• Quote:
  “When Carol watches all of the video from start to finish, she starts to think, this is wrong. They've really done this guy wrong.” (John Thomas, 03:57)

4. Faulty Interrogation Techniques (07:04–11:26)

• Mark Fallon (interrogation expert) analyzes how “memory molding” and “confession-driven tactics” likely led Chris Tapp to confess to a crime he didn’t commit.
• Insight:
  “These tactics, unfortunately, are a very effective way of obtaining confession from a guilty person...they’re also a very effective method of obtaining a confession from an innocent person.” (Mark Fallon, 08:39)
• He points out the era’s reliance on intuition, not science, in police work.

5. The Role of Legal Experts (13:25–16:41)

• Carol recruits Stephen Drizen (Northwestern Law professor, wrongful convictions expert).
• Memorable Moment: Drizen is shocked:
  “This was the first time in my 30 plus years as a lawyer that a crime victim's mother called me and said, I've got real concerns that the man who killed my daughter is innocent.” (Stephen Drizen, 14:19)
• Drizen’s assessment aligns with Chris’s defense: the confession was unreliable and fit the pattern of false confessions.

6. Chris Tapp in His Own Words (16:53–19:39)

• Interviewed in 2019, Chris describes his confusion, naivety, and terror during the interrogations as a 20-year-old.
• Personal Reflection:
  “The biggest things I felt during all the interrogations, the polygraphs, was fear, scared, because it just continued to get worse for me. And I just kept trying to do whatever they wanted.” (Chris Tapp, 18:14)
• He describes how pressure led to his false confession.

7. Carol Dodge Joins the Fight for Exoneration (19:59–22:18)

• Carol becomes Chris’s advocate:
  “Carol comes to the conclusion for herself that they got the wrong guy. And so then her crusade...also turns into we gotta get Kris Tapp out.” (John Thomas, 22:18)
• She organizes public events, gains community and media support.

8. Community and Legal Momentum (23:03–25:43)

• The community opinion shifts towards believing in Chris’s innocence.
• New Bonneville County prosecutor Daniel Clark orders an independent review of the case.

9. The Independent Review and Unanswered Questions (25:43–27:41)

• The review questions the confession’s integrity but does not exonerate Chris.
• Clark:
  “When I got the report from the independent investigator, there wasn’t any magic bullet... But it certainly raised a lot of questions. Questions about the integrity of the confession, the integrity of the conviction.” (Daniel Clark, 26:12)
• Despite the doubts, Chris’s conviction remains, but the investigation into the unknown DNA continues with new investigators.

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Memorable Quotes

• “Maybe there’s something in these interrogation tapes that will help me to know who killed Angie.” (Narrator summarizing Carol Dodge, 03:23)
• “Chris Tapp is only saying things after they're telling him to say them.” (John Thomas, 06:08)
• “The techniques and the tactics are so powerful that any one of us could find ourselves confessing to a murder we didn't commit.” (Stephen Drizen, 16:30)
• “There's not one speck of evidence on Angie that belongs to Chris Tapp.” (Carol Dodge at a community event, 22:52)
• “What I wanted was my investigator to find something under some rock that gave us some absolute answer one way or another.” (Daniel Clark, 25:30)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:32–01:29: Setting up DNA mismatch and Chris’s claim of innocence.
• 01:29–03:48: Carol Dodge’s first unexpected meeting with John Thomas and her tenacity.
• 04:55–07:04: Review of interrogation tapes and flaws in Chris’s confession.
• 07:32–11:26: Mark Fallon explains interrogation tactics and their dangers.
• 13:25–14:40: Stephen Drizen describes Carol's unprecedented outreach for help.
• 16:53–19:39: Chris Tapp’s personal account of his coerced confession.
• 22:02–24:25: Carol’s transformation into Chris’s advocate and impact on public opinion.
• 25:43–27:41: Impact and limitations of the independent case review.

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Conclusion

This episode documents a pivotal turn in the Angie Dodge murder case, highlighting flawed policing, the power of advocacy, and a community’s evolving views on justice. Through tenacity and self-reflection, Carol Dodge’s journey from grieving mother to crusader for truth underscores the complexities and responsibilities of the criminal justice system—leaving listeners pondering the true meaning of justice and the cost of certainty.

Transcript

[Kiana]

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[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

In 1998, Kris Tapp was convicted of the rape and murder of Angie Dodge. But his DNA didn't match the samples found at Angie's apartment. So there was still one question that lingered. Who did this DNA belong to? This DNA could lead investigators to the unknown male who had raped Angie and inflicted the mortal wound that killed her. But without a match, that question would remain unanswered for years. Meanwhile, Chris Tapp continued to say he was innocent, that he falsely confessed to the crime and was never involved. And he filed a petition for post conviction relief. In 2008, a decade after Chris was convicted, an attorney at the Bonneville County Public Defender's Office took on his appeal.

[John Thomas]

My name's John Thomas.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

John Thomas was still reading in on the case when he was surprised by an unlikely visitor.

[John Thomas]

One day I was walking across the lawn after. After court, I'm walking back to my office, and Carol Dodge stopped me. And I thought, oh, no, this is not going to be good.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

John says Carol's reputation preceded her. She was the tenacious mother who wanted to know who murdered her daughter. He'd heard about Carol's frequent visits to the police station.

[John Thomas]

Carol would wander around and talk to anybody that she could talk to. What have you done about Angie's killer? Why are you not on Angie's killer? These are the things that I've been doing, and I want to know what you've been doing.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

He says if Carol wanted to talk to you, she'd approach you and do it right then and there. And that's what John says Carol did to him that day.

[John Thomas]

Carol was a very intimidating sort of figure, and I thought probably not a great time to meet when she's the mother of this murdered woman and I am the defense attorney attempting to free a man who was guilty of murder and rape in her case.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

But it turns out Carol wanted to help him. Carol was still looking for the unknown male whose DNA matched the samples found in Angie's apartment.

[Carol Dodge]

All of these things happening, and yet you've never found the person that matches the DNA. And there's only one DNA at that crime scene. I didn't understand that.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

She went back to the case files trying to find answers. She told John Thomas that she was watching the hours and hours of police interviews.

[John Thomas]

She is thinking to herself, I really want to know who killed Angie. And maybe there's something in these interrogation tapes that will help me to know who killed Angie. And she thinks if I watch these interrogation tapes, I can pull out the pieces, pieces of information that I can then track down myself or turn over to the police and help them to find the real killer.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

But John says Carol started to see something else.

[John Thomas]

When Carol watches all of the video from start to finish, she starts to think, this is wrong. They've really done this guy wrong.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

Could the wrong man be sitting in prison for Angie's rape and murder? From ABC Audio and 20 20, I'm Maggie Rouley, and this is the snare. Episode four, A new crusade. John Thomas says he didn't know very much about the tapes Before Carol Dodge approached him. He had just started representing Chris.

[John Thomas]

Carol introduced me to the videotapes, told me that I needed to watch the videotapes.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

During the investigation, police had conducted nine interrogations and six polygraph tests with Chris. Some of those interviews were almost three hours long. This is what Chris ultimately confessed to investigators. That he and a friend went to Angie's apartment, that they were in her bedroom when Chris held Angie down and says the other person raped and stabbed her, that Chris himself also cut Angie on her chest. He implicated a friend in the crime, but his friend's DNA didn't match the crime scene evidence. And the friend denied ever being involved in Angie's rape and murder and would never be charged with those crimes. At Krish's trial, he pleaded not guilty and his attorney argued that he gave a false confession. But the jury didn't buy it. That was 1998. Now, over a decade later, Carol Dodge was questioning Chris's confession, all because of the interrogation tapes.

[John Thomas]

So Carol is originally thinking Kristapp was there. But as Carol's watching these, it dawns on her that it's like, this isn't right. Chris Tapp is only saying things after they're telling him to say them. They ask him questions about, okay, well, where did she live?

[Mark Fallon]

Didn't she, like, live on the corner?

[John Thomas]

And they say, no, no, Chris, Chris, it's not that house.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

It was the middle of the block. The detective says they also asked Chris where Angie was killed.

[John Thomas]

They ask him which room was she killed in. He goes, this is where she was killed.

[Daniel Clark]

Where are you?

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

In the bedroom or in the living room or in the kitchen? In the living room. Chris tells the polygrapher, angie was killed in the living room.

[John Thomas]

And they go, no, Chris, it's over here. This is the room. You're mistaken.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

They never took her down in the living room. She was killed in the bedroom. At trial, detectives testified that they had evidence that proved Chris was lying to them and that Chris always knew where Angie lived and where she was killed. But interrogation experts like Mark Fallon say they saw officers use a now problematic interrogation technique.

[Mark Fallon]

This is memory molding. And what they're doing is they are telling him now that it was not in the living room, that it happened in the bedroom. And he is having trouble describing the apartment because he's never been in it.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

Fallon wasn't involved in Chris's case. ABC News asked him to review Chris's interviews and polygraph tests with police. He spent more than two decades with NCIS and is the director of Club Fed, a consulting firm that examines the science of interrogations. Remember, these interrogations happened in the 90s. Fallon says back then, law enforcement employed certain methods in situations like these.

[Mark Fallon]

They were using this what we call confession driven tactics. The goal was to obtain a confession. What you do is you determine what you think might have happened. You develop a theme.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

But he says, there is a potential problem with these tactics.

[Mark Fallon]

These tactics, unfortunately, are a very effective way of obtaining confession from a guilty person. It's unfortunate because they're also a very effective method, obtaining a confession from an innocent person.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

Fallon broke down the techniques he saw detectives use in Chris's interrogation.

[Mark Fallon]

One of the techniques was trying to convince Chris that his memory was wrong, that he had actually did commit this crime. But his mind wouldn't let him admit to it.

[John Thomas]

Just like me on some of the

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

brutal stuff that we see out on

[John Thomas]

the streets, my mind shuts down on me because I don't want to remember her, okay? And this may be the case here with you, okay?

[Mark Fallon]

They tried to reinforce that with the polygraph, trying to claim that it was infallible. And so it's Chris's memory that must be wrong. And they came up with their alternative hypothesis of what occurred and then continued to try to get Chris to grasp for every lifeline that they threw him in an effort to save himself.

[Chris Tapp]

I would remember that anyone would.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

Again, on the Charger tail is saying to me, you were there. Another interview method Fallon saw investigators use was a technique called maximization.

[Mark Fallon]

And so what you try to do is maximize the penalty, maximize what happened, create the most critical conditions, and then as the investigator, you come in as the person who could save them from that.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

Fallon says interrogation strategies have evolved over the years, but at the time, many of the techniques detectives used in Kris Tapp's interviews were the norm in law enforcement.

[Mark Fallon]

When Chris was interrogated, they didn't have the science on their side. So they went with instinctually what they thought was valid and it was not.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

At Chris's trial and in the years following, the prosecution and the detectives insisted the methods used during the interrogations were sound. Fallon says the detectives did the job they thought they needed to do.

[Mark Fallon]

A heinous crime was committed and they were trying to protect society by taking the person who did it off the street. This is a failure of the system here. Supervisors have bought into the detective stories. Prosecutors have bought into this story. Even though the evidence is contrary to Chris guilt. Everyone latched onto the guilt because that's what they wanted.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

That evidence Fallon is talking about is the DNA. Again, the DNA at the crime scene did not match Kris Tapp's. And now, a decade after Chris was sent to prison for the rape and murder of her daughter, Carol Dodge was convinced that authorities had gotten it wrong.

[Carol Dodge]

It took me a long time after doing all the investigation about Kristapp to say Krist not there.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

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[Carol Dodge]

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[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

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[Harvey Guillen]

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[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

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[Carol Dodge]

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[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

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[Carol Dodge]

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[Harvey Guillen]

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[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

Carol Dodge and John Thomas started forming a team of experts to review the interrogation tapes and offer an opinion. That's when Stephen Drizen came into the picture.

[Stephen Drizen]

I picked up the phone and Carol Dodge was on the other end of the line, and she asked me if I would review the interrogation tapes of the man who had confessed to and been convicted of killing her daughter.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

Stephen Drizen is a professor at Northwestern University's Pritzker School of Law and the co director of the center of wrongful convictions. His research focuses on interrogation tactics and the motivations behind false confessions. When he got the call from Carol asking for help, he was surprised.

[Stephen Drizen]

This was the first time in my 30 plus years as a lawyer that a crime victim's mother called me and said, I've got real concerns that the man who killed my daughter is innocent.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

If what Carol saw in those tapes was enough to cause a change of heart, Drissen thought, then maybe something really was wrong. So Drissen agreed to review the hours of interrogation in polygraph footage.

[Stephen Drizen]

I was looking at these tapes to try to determine whether or not Chris's confession was reliable. Was it truthful evidence of his guilt?

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

After reviewing the footage, Drizen published a report detailing what he saw. And he agreed with Chris's defense team. He thought that Kris Tapp's statements were, quote, unreliable. Drizen argued that Chris's statements fit the pattern of documented false confessions and concluded that, quote, the rapist and murderer of Angie Dodge was still on the loose. Chris's defense would cite Drissen's report in future legal filings. Drizen was among a number of legal experts Chris's defense recruited to help in his case. Soon after Drissen got involved, the Innocence Project joined Chris's post conviction efforts. The organization works to exonerate people who they think have been wrongfully convicted. The defense was building their team, people who could explain why Chris might have falsely confessed. Drissen says the idea of confessing to a crime you didn't commit can be hard to understand.

[Stephen Drizen]

The techniques and the tactics are so powerful that any one of us could find ourselves confessing to a murder we didn't commit.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

But the only person who knows exactly what it was like to be in that interrogation room was Chris Tapp himself.

[Chris Tapp]

I was a young kid. I didn't know any difference.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

This is Chris Tapp. When Chris first came to the police station back in January 1990, 7. He was 20 years old. He was working odd jobs at restaurants and warehouses. Chris loved fishing, camping, and playing video games. Most days, he was with his friends at the Snake River. Chris agreed to sit down with ABC News back in 2019. He was 42 years old at the time. He had a full beard and shaved head. No longer that young man Idaho Falls detectives spoke to years earlier.

[Chris Tapp]

I was naive, really naive. The Chris that sits here today, still jokey, still can make people laugh. But also the Chris today isn't so naive anymore. The Chris today is a little bit harder, a little bit meaner, a little bit tougher, a little bit rougher around the edges.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

He reflected on that month he spent talking to investigators, the hours and hours of interrogations and polygraph tests he had agreed to sit through. He says he went from trying to help to just wanting the questioning to stop.

[Chris Tapp]

The biggest things I felt during all the interrogations, the polygraphs, was fear, scared, because it just continued to get worse for me. And I just kept trying to do whatever they wanted. I kept trying to answer their questions or give them scenario or anything that they wanted that would help me. I wanted to go home.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

Chris said he knew he had nothing to do with Angie's rape and murder, but he couldn't understand why the polygrapher kept telling him he was failing his tests.

[Chris Tapp]

So I started second guessing myself during all this. I started to not believe in myself or who I was.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

Ultimately, Chris falsely confessed to holding Angie down and cutting her chest. Now, remember, there was no physical evidence connecting Chris to Angie's rape and murder. His DNA didn't match what was found at the crime scene. But his confession helped convince the jury that he was guilty. Because why would someone confess to a crime they didn't commit? Chris Tapp said out of fear. That's why he did it.

[Chris Tapp]

I've tried to explain that to people for years, and a lot of people don't understand when you're underneath all that pressure and to start, you think you're doing the right thing and you just want to help them. And as the time goes on, it just continues to get more heavier and more weight on your shoulders. And you're just so scared to admit to something you didn't do.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

But back in 2008, a decade after his conviction, things would change for Kris Tapp, because Carol Dodge, the woman who had once campaigned for him to get the death penalty, would now be one of his strongest allies.

[Harvey Guillen]

This show is sponsored by Progressive Insurance. Insurance isn't one size fits all. That's why drivers have enjoyed Progressive's name your price tool for years now. With the name your price tool, you tell them what you want to pay and they'll show you options that fit your budget. So whether you're picking out your first policy or just looking for something that works better for you and your family, they make it easy to see your options. Visit progressive.com to find a rate that works for you with the name your price tool. Progressive Casualty Insurance company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home in auto policies. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

I'm Harvey Guillen, and this is Killer Stories. Every Monday, I'm cutting the lights and telling you a bedtime story. Except these stories are all real. We're talking brazen heist, devastating cons, serial murders, and cases that defy tidy categories. So join me for new episodes of Killer Stories with Harvey Guillen every Monday. In 2008, Chris Tapp received big news through one of his weekly phone calls with his attorney. Carol Dodge wanted to help overturn his conviction.

[Chris Tapp]

And I couldn't believe it, I couldn't believe it that, you know, she's watched the polygraph, she's watched the interrogations. She understands and she saw how it all unfolded.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

Again, Chris's appellate attorney, John Thomas.

[John Thomas]

Carol comes to the conclusion for herself that they got the wrong guy. And so then her crusade not only to get Angie Dodge as killer, her crusade also turns into we gotta get Kris Tapp out.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

Carol built up community support for Chris case. She got the word out on local and national media outlets. She hosted open houses where people could learn more more about Chris's case. Here's Carol speaking to local reporters at one of those events.

[Carol Dodge]

There's not one speck of evidence on Angie that belongs to Chris Tapp. It belongs to one individual and that individual has never been found.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

She was determined to make Chris a free man again. But it would be an uphill battle. Over the next few years, Chris defense team filed two appeals that were dismissed. His lawyers had alleged in one appeal that police used provocative questions to heighten his stress and employed hypothetical questions to encourage speculative responses. But the court affirmed the jury's decision. It found that the defense failed to provide support that such interrogation techniques weren't allowed and ruled that police are allowed to ask questions that play on a suspect's ignorance, fears, and anxieties. Chris says the appeals process was disheartening. But reporter Brian Clark says the momentum in Idaho falls for Chris's exoneration was. Was building.

[Daniel Clark]

The community generally pretty much thought Chris was guilty. You had differing opinions here and there, but now I think people are almost unanimous. They think this was a wrongful conviction and they're waiting for prosecutors to do what they can to correct it.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

And legal efforts were also building momentum. There was a community push for the Bonneville county prosecutor's office to revisit Chris case. And the office was feeling the pressure.

[Daniel Clark]

The years preceding my taking that office had. There was an escalation of various advocacy groups.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

This is former Bonneville county prosecutor Daniel Clark.

[Daniel Clark]

Those speaking on behalf of Mr. Tapp and frankly raising questions about the veracity of the conviction, raising questions about the confession, things of that nature.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

Clark says when he took office in 2015, the prosecutor's office had ordered an independent review into Chris's conviction. He says he was hoping the review might lead to some new information that would help find the source of that mystery DNA.

[Daniel Clark]

What I wanted was my investigator to find something under some rock that gave us some absolute answer one way or another.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

Chris's attempts to overturn his conviction had failed on appeal. But maybe this independent review was the opportunity he'd been waiting for. The prosecutor's office was revisiting his case. The review took about a year to complete. The independent investigator who conducted it went through the case file, including all of the interrogation and polygraph footage police recorded with Chris.

[Daniel Clark]

When I got the report from the independent investigator, there wasn't any magic bullet, if you will, or something like that. But it certainly raised a lot of questions. Questions about the integrity of the confession, the integrity of the conviction. Things of that nature certainly came to my mind during that time.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

The independent review commissioned by the Bonneville county prosecutor's office did cast doubt on Chris's confession regarding his personal involvement in Angie's death. But it concluded that he was present when Angie was attacked and stabbed. Chris had spent over a decade trying to prove his innocence. When the prosecutor's office ordered the independent review into his conviction, it seemed like the tide might finally be turning in his case. But Chris's attempts to overturn his conviction seemed to be at a standstill once again. Meanwhile, at the Idaho Falls police station, a new generation of investigators would take on the question that had haunted everyone for years. Who did the DNA at the crime scene belong to? This is DNA evidence, biological evidence that we have to keep in this method

[Daniel Clark]

to keep it preserved. This one in particular is the DNA extract from the Dodge case.

[Narrator (Maggie Rouley)]

The Snare is a production of ABC Audio in 2020 hosted by me, Maggie Ruley, produced by Camille Peterson and Sabrina Fang, with help from Annalisa Linder and Emily Schutz. Edited by Tracy Samuelson. Our supervising producer is Susie Liu. Music by Evan Viola Mixing by Bob Mallory. Special thanks to Katie Dundas, Janice Johnston, Nancy Rosenbaum, Sasha Aslanian, Suzanne DiCunto and Michelle Margulis. Josh Cohan is our director of podcast programming. Amy McNiff is our executive producer.

[Harvey Guillen]

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