B (2:15)

But, you know, hey, listen, I relate to that so much. When I left Chris Lee Knows Best, didn't know what I was going to do. And I don't know if I ever told you this, but I've told other people I was flying somewhere. I can't remember where I was flying. Maybe LA or something. And in the Delta sky magazine, there was an article, and it was talking about podcasts, and I had never heard anything about podcasts, nothing. But it showed, like, charts and stuff. And I'm kind of a nerd when it comes to, like, numbers and looking at charts and graphs. And it was talking about, over the next, like, five years, what podcast was going to do. And it really was kind of like an unchartered thing. Nobody knew what was going to happen with it, like, if people were going to make money off of it, if it was going to be a career. And that's when Kale and I kind of started talking, and we're like, we need to jump on this train now. And interestingly enough, I was taking a bath. And I don't know if Kate takes baths, but sometimes that's just, like, my free time to just let my thoughts kind of go. And I'm like, why does every reality show not have a podcast dedicated to that show? To have different cast members come on.

A (3:26)

Yeah, I mean, I think it's a smart idea because honestly, I didn't know about podcasts. I don't know. I still really don't. But, like, back then, the fact that you haven't talked about a Skylines mag or Delta Magazine, which they don't even have those anymore. It was a while ago. Yeah. But I. I was always interested, too. Like, how did you. Like, how did you and Kale even, like, meet up to do this kind of thing? Like, how did that work?

B (3:48)

So we met over Twitter.

A (3:50)

Oh, okay.

B (3:51)

Yeah. She was still on Teen mom and I was on Chris Lee Knows Best. And we started. Is it called following on Twitter?

A (3:58)

Yeah.

B (3:59)

Started following each other on Twitter. And then at the same time, she and I had not the same management, but we were doing certain deals through a management company that were joint. So the manager that I was using was also working with Kale. And so we would kind of talk about stuff like that. So we were getting acquainted in business. And then obviously, both being moms of boys. And so it was just like a natural fit. And I'm so glad that we did it.

A (4:26)

Yeah, I Mean, you guys have been killing it. It's been great. I mean, you kind of set the precedence for, I think, every other teen mom podcast out there right now, which is. Which is kind of my what I was gonna bring up next because I'm seeing all this weird ass as headlines that they are like, that you originally were gonna do it with Janelle, but that didn't work out. And I'm like, what? I'm like, I saw this. Of course, I don't believe when I read it, obviously, but I was like, what? How did that. What is going on? Why is this even a concept or a conversation that's happening? I'm confused.

B (4:56)

I honestly have no idea. And it's so funny you brought it up because we were just going to be like, whatever, you know, just people talk bullshit walks. I mean. But since you brought it up, we'll address it. I was actually alerted from somebody else about it going on on Facebook, and I was like, what in the world is this? Like, I have no idea what's going on. And then it was said that another network was being started or something. And then there was going to be this podcast. And then last week I saw something that was like, well, it's not going to be a podcast right now, so I truly have no idea what's going on. If it was just kind of like a. A moment to start controversy. I really have no idea.

A (5:44)

Yeah, because I was like, what? This isn't matching up with anything that I remember happening. So I'm like. I was like, what the is going on?

B (5:51)

Because when Kayl and I first started the podcast, I don't know if you remember this, but we were in New York working on the show. I mean, this was probably 2017 or 2018, and we had you and Caitlyn on the podcast, like some of our first episodes, I believe.

A (6:08)

Yeah, you're right. But that was in person. We were like filming. It was like we were all there to do like a reunion or something like that. You guys happened to be there to like. Yeah, I do remember this.

B (6:17)

We were there. And then I think MTV actually filmed that episode that we were doing, right?

A (6:23)

Yeah, did. Yeah.

B (6:24)

And do you know that? I don't know if you know this information, but do you know that the place that was rented when we were recording, the couch we were sitting on was a porn couch?

A (6:35)

Oh, no. Hey, listen, the least I know, the less I gotta understand, you know, I'm.

B (6:44)

Just like, what in the world was going on? And should we not have, like, signed some type of Disclosures to agree to sit on this, like just sitting on jizz, you know, that's wild as hell. Filming with Teen Mom. Well, introduce yourself to my audience. I want to talk about your upbringing, how it's kind of shaped you today. I want to get into adoption, into marriage, reality TV and living a public life. All the things.

A (7:14)

Yeah. So for people who don't know, my name is Tyler Baltera. I was been on 16 and pregnant and Teen mom, you know, since I was 16. I'm a birth father, relinquish a child at 16. And MTV's kind of followed me and my wife's story the whole time. And so, yeah, I mean I, it's, it's crazy that Team mom is still happening and still going on this far in the game. But yeah, I mean, I'm honored for, for, for being a part of something that kind of, I believe helped shape culture in a way. And now we're really talking about it, I think in a way that hasn't been talked about before or at least been able to like examine and stuff. So I think, you know what, this is 16 years later. I mean, most of these kids are 16. Like, it's crazy. But yeah, I mean, I'm, you know, live my life. I got three kids, beautiful wife, living life, counting the blessings, you know. So, yeah.

B (8:14)

Wait, so can we go back to you and Caitlyn being on 16 and pregnant and how that kind of all went down?

A (8:22)

Yeah, so, well, we found out she was pregnant and then we, you know, we immediately kind of just like thought about our family life and how we were being raised and you know, coming from two drug addict parents and we, we just knew that like, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't the right time. And so we looked into adoption and then that's when the adoption agency actually brought it up to us saying, hey, you know, we've been contacted by mtv. Would you want to fill this thing out and see if they pick you? And I'm like, sure. I, at this point, I'm so emotionally distraught 16 year old kid. I'm like, yeah, I' fill out if they, you know, whatever, true life, sure, let's do it. And I just kind of like filled out this little form and then we got a call back and they said, you know, we, we dropped another girl that we picked and we're gonna go with, with you guys, you know, and follow your story. And that's kind of how the whole like TV part started. I mean, me and Kate filled out that form as it it's kind of like a joke. Like we're like, yeah, whatever, like we'll fill it out, it's fine. Not really expecting to be picked, so. Which obviously, you know, changed our whole life and stuff. So yeah, that's kind of how the whole TV thing got introduced to our lives in the first place.

B (9:40)

So immediately when you guys got pregnant, it was pretty quickly after that. You had already made the decision that you were going to go the adoption route.

A (9:48)

Yeah, I think me and Kate spent probably like two months going back and forth and even, even when MTV kind of got in the picture, we still weren't like 100%, but we knew we were leaning more towards it. And so from the very get go, we kind of just, we knew because you know, the crazy. You want to hear some white trash Southern tea? Right? Okay, let's talk about it. Because, because my dad gets out of prison and then we introduce my dad to Kate's mom, which you know, that was just a normal thing. Like here's, you know, meet each other. They end up getting married while we were pregnant. So that was weird, you know, let alone being pregnant at 16, but having it our parents be married, which technically he made us step siblings, was even wilder. So that's kind of where I think me and Kate really were like, okay, this environment's crazy because my dad's been a drug addict his whole life, her mom's been an alcoholic her whole life and just not good environment. So yeah, it's, it's just been, it's been a wild ride. It's been crazy.

B (10:58)

That's so crazy. So when you guys had your daughter, your first daughter, did you have any reservations at all once you had her like cold feet or it was, that was the decision y' all made and you just went with it.

A (11:14)

Well, I think me and Kate knew like logically, you know, like, like I always look at it like we were fighting like nature versus logic. And so we knew logically that it was better for her to not be raised in the crazy ass environment that we were being raised in. But naturally, instinctively. Like me and Kate, we had lots of moments in the hospital after she was born and we kind of looked at each other without even saying words. And we had both had that same feeling of like we could just take, take her and just run away and get the hell out of here. So yeah, we had a lot of reservations. But like I said, it's like that fighting of that nature versus like logic and being 16, it's like I, you know, you have Everyone telling you you're doing the right thing, and it's so sacrificial, and this is the best thing, and then, you know, but you're a mom, Lindsay, so, you know. You know, that feeling of when they hold that baby, it's like the rest of the world, I'll go run and live in a box if I have to. I just want to be with this baby. And. And that's it. And so, yeah, I mean, to say we didn't have reservations, I'd be lying, because we. We definitely did. They just weren't really spoken out loud at that point.

B (12:28)

Looking back on it, do you feel like there was any influence for y' all being involved with MTV and making that decision?

A (12:36)

No, not at all. In fact, I mean, MTV was kind of like. There was a couple times where, like, mtv, some of the producers were like, you know, we'd film a really intense scene and it was emotional, and they'd be like, are you okay? Like, you know, you guys are. You know, you're doing the right thing and stuff. So I wasn't like an influence. It was more or less like, you know, I kind of like, after a while, me and Kate just forgot about the cameras because we're like. It was so intense emotionally that we're like these cameras. And. And so I wouldn't say that they had an influence at all. It was more or less like they're just catching the raw reality. And I think, honestly, when you look back, like, there hasn't even since that. That episode aired, there hasn't really been a full on documented adoption happening in real time and then be able to follow that adoption afterwards. So I think it was a groundbreaking kind of moment in culture back then that I didn't really realize was happening back then, but now, looking back as an adult, it's like, wow. Like, yeah, it was just. It put adoption, I think, on the map and kind of put it in people's faces. Because at that moment, remember Juno came out, the movie Juno, which pregnant. Got inspiration for all the little graphics and. And all that kind of stuff from Juno, which Juno was the worst adoption story we've ever. I've ever seen. Unrealistic as not real. And so, yeah, I mean, I think it was the first time America really was able to watch how adoption occurs in this country and how it looks like.

B (14:04)

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A (15:40)

All.

B (15:40)

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A (17:39)

I mean, to be honest with you, our first ever interview that we ever did was on the Today show of Matt Lauer. And they were like, we want you guys to go on there and talk about these headlines that. Because, you know, remember it came out and it was all over the magazines, like, teen pregnancy, like, you know, trying to become famous from being, you know, pregnant as a teen. And they had us go and do this interview with Matt Lauer. And I was, Remember being so nervous. I was like, dude, what? We're on today's show 17 years old. I'm like, oh, God. And then I'm thinking, we're gonna talk about adopt Story. But Matt Lauer grilled our asses. And he was like. I mean, he was like, you're, you know, you're encouraging girls to get pregnant. What do you think? And I remember being like, that ain't our thing, man. Like, I don't. I don't know what you're saying, because if, if for me and Kate personally, like, if that's what the case was, I'd have my baby. Like, I, I, you know, so for our, for us specifically, it was like adoption was like, that was. We were just showing adoption. So. And it's weird that people say that because, you know, there's been so many studies now that have been done and their pregnancy rate dropped after that show aired. And people can argue the, you know, causation versus, you know, whatever correlation, whatever, but, like, it's. It's something. It has to. It says something about what the show did and how it impacted society. So, I mean, I think after 15 years later, there's a lot of data that disproves that kind of rhetoric, in my opinion, so.

B (19:04)

Right. Yeah. Do you feel like your thoughts on adoption? I know that you and Kate talk a lot. I see Yalls clips and stuff follow on social media with the podcast. Obviously, you talk about adoption a lot on the show. Has your feelings changed from the time that you put your daughter up for adoption to now?

A (19:26)

Oh, huge. Like, I mean, honestly, like, it. They've changed so much that it's hard to even recognize what we thought about it back then. You know, being that young, you're just kind of trusting all the adults around you. And, you know, back then, we didn't do any research about anything. We just trusted what this agency was telling us. And so, you know, I think my opinion on adoption has completely changed only because you get older, you get wiser, you kind of start understanding the industry in this country, how it works. And honestly, the reason why I feel that adoption needs huge reform is because commodifying children or any life is just not good. And we're the only country in the whole world that operates like this. And so, you know, and then you, you know, there's just too many stuff that's come out about these adoption agencies and what. And how manipulative and how coercion is involved that, you know, it's like, I can't stand and say that it's this amazing thing that I think we thought it was when we were kids.

B (20:35)

I mean, you also were 16 years old, 17 years old, whenever you had a child, and you were making very adult decisions. And what I think that people that, you know, viewed because you're going to have the positive and the negative, but I think what people fail to forget that your entire brain isn't developed at that time, and you're making the best decisions at that moment, doing adult things when you're not really an adult.

A (20:59)

Yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right because, I mean, like, our brains were. We were children. And I think people, like, for some reason, I feel like for a lot of cast members, they get a lot of grace for certain stuff. And then when it comes to us, they're like, well, you did it. Get over it. You sign your papers, you gave it away. And it's like, like, you just said, we were children. Like, you have to. You have to remember we were literally kids making this decision. And, you know, I. I think it's unfair to just tell someone to get over it. I mean, you know, being a parent, you know, like, how do you. How would you ever get over it? How do you ever just, like, get over grieving for a child that's still living?

B (21:37)

It's impossible, I guess. Yalls, was it considered a docu series, but still somewhat, I guess, considered reality tv? Right. Me coming from a reality TV show, I can say and from other shows that I know other acquaintances in the business have been on, I feel like if there is a collective cast, there's always going to be A golden child and a villain. Right. Like, they have to somewhat have that to make it all make sense, right?

A (22:12)

No, yeah, they have to have the polarity because how are you gonna. I mean, it helps drive viewership, it helps drive the story forward, which totally makes sense. Now that I'm older, I'm like, oh, okay, got it. So you had us with this adoption story, which, which balances out the, the, you know, other. Other stories. And then you have people like Farah, who has her whole personality and her. But I think as far. I don't know, I. I feel like I don't know where me and Kate really were placed in that. You know what I'm saying? I don't really know where we were placed because I think it's always kind of like flip flop, like people are like, oh, they're really supportive of you. And I think it has a lot to do with the, the, the like, kind of perception of adoption. So of course they love us when we're talking good about it. They love us when we're, you know, having these visits and everything's positive. The moment that us as birth parents say anything that's hard or hurtful or whatever, they're like, no, get over it. You know, it is what it is.

B (23:09)

Yeah.

A (23:10)

Yeah. So it kind of feels like, you know, almost like tug of war as far as where me and Kate were placed in that polarity of like the villain and the golden child kind of thing. So, yeah, it's. It's been weird. It's been really.

B (23:21)

We can all agree that sometimes decisions that we make are hard and doesn't mean that it's not going to come along with a grief journey. Right. Like, you can make a decision that's really hard that, you know, is the best thing and still grieve it at the same time.

A (23:35)

Yeah. And I think people get it confused. Like two things can be true at the same time. It could have been the right thing and I could also. I'm allowed to be really sad about it. I'm allowed to be very angry and, you know, with grief, that's part of it. Anger is part of it. You know, guilt is part of it. Shame's a part of it. So I think people should allow those emotions to let, let it play out in between all the positive stuff that you see. So. Because we have had a lot of positive moments early on in our adoption. It was great. MTV covered it and, you know, you can see it all. It just got shaky after like the first five years. So then, yeah, unfolded everything happened after that.

B (24:15)

So can we backtrack a little bit? I would really love to know what legal advice y' all were given at your age. At the time that the contracts were.

A (24:25)

Signed, no legal advice was, was, was given to us. We didn't have a lawyer. There was no. The only guidance we really had was our adoption counselor from the agency kind of guiding us through everything. So. And I think people get it confused because everyone's like, oh, you had a guardian ad litem, but a guardian ad litem is only done on the court date that you actually sign the parental rights off. So we only had a 30 minute talk with this guardian ad litem on the court date when we actually signed the papers to terminate our rights. So there was no legal representation. The whole nine months of us doing any of this.

B (25:04)

So do you think looking back on it now at your age and having other children, would you have done it different?

A (25:12)

Oh, absolutely. I feel that like. And honestly, anyone even thinking about adoption, you just need to get an attorney asap. I mean, I don't care if the agency is telling you everything's good or whatever. You need to get. You need to get your own family attorney and you need to have a private, separate, you know, contract. Because I. Adoption is not. Adoption is a legal process as a legal transfer of parental rights to a child. So there's other things that adoption's not required. You don't. You could do guardianship, you could do. There's so many different ways that adoption is not really necessary as far as a legal process goes. So I mean, my advice is like, get, get a lawyer ASAP and, and think about not having a complete termination of rights, but doing a guardianship or whatever. Because adoption is designed for safe external care of a child, it should not be used as a service for adults to create their dream of being a parent, in my opinion.

B (26:12)

So I would love to know you had no real legal advice in that situation.

A (26:18)

Right.

B (26:18)

Did you get any legal advice with MTV contracts that you were signing?

A (26:24)

No, none. Because, you know, tell me how that all down? Yeah, because me and Kate, I mean, we come. I mean, we come from poverty families, we come from drug addicts, and our households were crazy. So we didn't even think to have legal representation, signing contracts for. To film a TV show. So, I mean, people get it confused. But the first four years of filming that show, we were not getting a lot of money at all, not even enough to really survive. So it's like that was a whole different thing. I really got, man, I can go Back in time, you know, if I can go back in time and you know, I'm pretty sure you feel the same way about your first contract with tv. It's like, oh, I could go back in time, time with a competent lawyer, things would be a lot different.

B (27:07)

You know, I think you just get like further along in business and you make decisions that you don't know what the implications of those decisions are at the time that you're making them, right? And then you get further along in business, you grow up, become parents and life happens and you look back on it and you're like, what was I thinking?

A (27:26)

Literally like. And I also feel like, you know, I had parents. My mom was, I had my mom and she didn't, There was no, like, why would, you know, you think you get a lawyer for your kid, you know what I mean, before they sign this thing. But my mom was a lot, she was very much like, gave me a lot of freedom and let me kind of, you know, hey, this is what you want to do, Be on tv, do this thing. I wasn't even thinking that I had the, the power to ask for more money or to ask for certain things. You know, I was just like, well there, here's a contract and you know, let's just do it. You know what I mean? I have nothing else going for me in this life that I'm living. So yeah, I mean, shit, if I go back in time, woo man, it'd be a whole different story.

B (28:03)

I mean I'm just thinking if, if I had a 16 year old, which I don't, I have a 13 year old, but if I had a 16 year old and a network could approach them to go through this journey and talk about their life and they needed to sign these contracts and whatever. Never would I allow my child to sign that contract without legal advice. And to some degree it almost feels like exploitation, right?

A (28:30)

I mean honestly. And I feel like, like, like two things can be true at the same time. They can exploit. I think we can all be honest that they did exploit kids. I mean, it's what, it's what happened. I mean, how do you explain following 16 year old teenager kids after making this crazy decision and then following the aftermath of that decision without say. I mean, yeah, you exploited it. So I mean that's the reality of what happened. And it could also have been a huge blessing to our life and gave us opportunities, but there's a cost to it. I mean I have people making rumors and you know, commenting on our lifestyle 247 online this is before Tick Tock was even a thing, you know, so there's, there's, there's a cost to it. And I definitely agree that like if any of my kids, I mean any contract, like, like, honestly, my mom's even apologized to me multiple times saying, I'm so sorry that I didn't read the contract that Bethany Christian Services, the adoption agency, had you signed because you were a kid and she had to sign off. We were minor, so she had to sign off for me to terminate my parental rights. Kate's mom had to sign off for Kate to terminate her parental rights and Kate's mom didn't do that. That's why we had to get a guardian.

B (29:36)

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A (32:03)

No, I mean, we. I mean, I think our we. When we first did 16 and pregnant, I didn't want to say it was 16 or pregnant. Got, like, a low amount. I didn't get nothing, but Kate got something. And then I want to say season four, maybe, of Team I can't. Actually, I can't remember, but I remember, like, the amount was like. I was like, Whoa, $10,000. I was like, this is crazy. You know, I'm like, this is nuts. And that was like, the first time I ever saw, like, a check that had double numbers, you know, before the zero, you know, like, what? And so, yeah, I mean, we were like. I mean, we were blown away. We thought we won the lottery, you know, coming from where we came from, so. And honestly, you know, like, my mom lived paycheck to paycheck. She was, you know, she had no money. Kate. Kate's mom was getting evicted for the 13th time that year that Carly was even born. So, like, yeah, there was no. No, no financial advisement. No. Not a clue about what to. How to even navigate receiving that kind of money. And I remember me and Kate for the first couple years being like, you almost feel like imposter syndrome. Like, I don't. Why? Like, I don't even know what to do with all this. Like, what do I do with this money? Like, who am I? Like, why do I deserve this? And what's happening? Like, you know, it's stressful, especially when you're doing it when you're 17, 18 years old. Like, it's. It's. It's. It messes with you almost.

B (33:22)

You know, do you feel like when you got access, let's say it was season four, just for context, tax purposes, and you're like, oh, I got paid $10,000. Do you feel like you were responsible and knew how to be responsible with that, or was it a situation to where you're like, wow, I just won the lottery and I can just spend it?

A (33:41)

No, I. I had no. I know. We. None of us knew what the hell we were doing. I think for us, like, we Naturally, just had to let mistakes teach us, you know what I mean? Like, we had to let these financial mistakes teach us because our parents didn't have enough money to even think about, you know, investments or what we know there's no extra money. Our parents didn't have any extra money to do anything with. So it was foreign to us to, to have that. So I think growing up, you know, we just kind of had to learn from our own mistakes in a way.

B (34:09)

Well, I think sometimes that's the best way to learn.

A (34:12)

Yeah, right. You know, I wish someone would have stopped us. I'm like, hey, man. Like, you know, like, this is what you could do. Like, oh, shit. But.

B (34:22)

Back to the adoption. What do you feel like that you wish that people understood more about open adoption?

A (34:30)

Well, for one, open adoption is not legally binding, so meaning that adoptive parents can say, we'll have three visits a year and 20 pictures every month or whatever. And none of it is actually legally binding. So. And that was a huge shock to me and Kate when we got older because we just assumed that adult signing papers and us signing papers, it was just, this is, this is what it's going to be like. So open adoption is not legally binding. And I want to say at this point, 90%, over 90% of open adoption closed within the first five years, and most of them closed before the age of two. So the track record of open adoption, staying open and adopted parents honoring that agreement is very low. And so the term open adoption actually happened in the early 90s, late, you know, late 90s, because adoptions were going down. No one was placing their babies, no one was relinquishing children. And so. But they still had 2 million couples waiting to adopt. And so what they did was they kind of coined that term of open adoption. Oh, it'll, it'll. It'll look more. It was a marketing technique. It'll look more appealing for women to relinquish. If we say you can choose to have visits, you can, you know, pick the parents and you can do all this stuff and have a little more control. When in reality it was like false control. It was more of a marketing technique. So open adoption is very new kind of still as far as, like, history goes. But yeah, none of us legally binding. And it's very broad term, so it can mean lots of different things. You can say, oh, open adoption means face to face visits. But some open adoptions don't have face to face visits. They only have phone calls. And so, yeah, it's just really broad. It's a very broad term, which is why I think it needs legal definition. Right. You need, you should have legal counsel to talk about what that means.

B (36:34)

So, because I'm thinking just from a perspective that has, has not been in the process of adoption or adopting, right? If it's open and then it can just be closed like that, how is that not an additional trauma to the child and then also an additional trauma to everybody else involved?

A (36:56)

Well, yeah, I think, I think it would be naive to say it's not a trauma because, you know, we have multiple studies now that, that show the, of, of what adoptees go through. I mean, their suicide risk is huge. It's, it's more than three, you know, three times that of a normal person. It's the, the chances of having mental health issues and anxiety disorders and all that stuff is super high. And they show that open adoptions and having connections with bio family, you know, helps those numbers and it helps kids. So, so when you close an open adoption, it's very rarely for the child. It's usually because the adoptive parents are scared or they have a fear or whatever, they feel threatened. And so it's not really child centered when it comes to open adoptions closing. And based off of the hundreds, now probably thousands of adoptees that I've talked to, it's traumatic for everyone involved because the child, you know, now feels that they have something severed from them again because, you know, these babies go through preverbal trauma when you're separated from the mother and, and you don't have that smell and you don't have that sound. The brain is making a lot of neural pathway connections in the first, you know, five years of life. So I mean, even the first, you know, 20 days of life, 15 days of life. I mean, so when you remove a child from a mother, it's trauma for the baby. The baby just doesn't know how to voice the trauma. So we call it pre verbal trauma because I can't verbalize it, but it affects them. And I think I, I wish most, I wish more adoptive parents would be more curious about how they're going to raise the child because you can't just pretend that you're raising a normal child. It's, they're not, they're, they're, they, they started coming into this world being a traumatized baby. So you need to figure, just do the research and figure out how you're going to best navigate it and talk to professionals because they'll tell you that having connection with bio parents is, is for the Majority better for the child. So in the home, all around, really.

B (39:09)

I know someone who is going through the process of adopting a child, went through multiple rounds of like, IUI and then IVF and unsuccessful and decided that adoption was the route that they were going to take and they're doing these home studies. Why, in your opinion, do you think during the home studies that these aren't the conversations that are going on because it's more than just the like actual environment. Right, right.

A (39:34)

Well, I think because you got to figure out who's doing the home studies. And this is where it gets kind of, the industry gets really weird because if you truly want a unbiased home study, the agency would not provide that home study. It would be a separate, totally separate, you know, institution or organization or whatever that does it. I think it should be kind of federalized by the. I think we should be monitoring how these home studies are done. And I don't know, it's interesting that it doesn't get talked about because when I asked my adoption counsel later on, I said, why aren't the adoptive parents notified of the inevitable trauma that their child's gonna experience? And, and I think it comes down to, unfortunately, in this country, profit over people. And so they're more or less like, let's just get this transaction done because we get the money, they get the baby, everyone's happy, instead of really focusing on what the long term effects that this is going to have on everybody.

B (40:34)

So for sure, how do you feel like that, that you can support Carly from a distance while also raising your other children? And do you guys have struggles with that?

A (40:47)

I mean, I think, I think we've always had struggles with it kind of going through the whole thing, especially it being open and then kind of going back and forth. Like me and Kate always say, like, I don't know what it would have been like if it was close from the start. You know, if it would have been close from the start. I, I mean, I don't know. I don't know how that would have worked. But I think as far as we go, I think we're at the age now where she's at the age now where it's like, I just trust her spiritual wisdom to guide her in whatever way she needs to go. And I also feel like. And that could look anyway, like I'm supporting her from the sidelines. If she wants to say, I ruined her life, you, like, you gave me away, whatever it is, or she wants to connect with me, I'm. I'm gonna Be her biggest cheerleader for whatever she wants to do with that whole thing. But I think the best way to support Carly during all this is just to kind of wait, unfortunately, because I don't have access and I don't know what she's going through or what questions she has, because her parents are in control, rightfully so. That's her parents. So I think at this point, you know, she's gonna be 17 pretty soon. So. And, like, I think people get it confused. Oh, 18, she'll turn 18. It's like, 18's not a magical number. It's not like, you know, it's not. She's gonna be 18 and be, oh, yeah, I'm gonna go and. Because you gotta understand, these children are being raised in environments where in order to survive this environment, they have to adapt. So they do that. And so I think people are like, oh, 18? Well, no, they're still living in the environment they still have. That's their family. That's their family dynamic. They have to deal with their whole life. So. So it's not automatically like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna go and search for my biofamily, which could potentially hurt my adoptive parents. And so a lot of the stories I hear from adoptees is that it's, It's. It's. It's a. It's weird how it kind of flip flops because now the adoptees fighting, like, nature versus logic. I need to support my adoptive parents, but my nature is, like, calling, I want to know. And so they. They do a lot of emotional monitoring to make sure they don't hurt the other parents. So I think for me and Kate, as far as it goes, if her parents blocked us and cut off contact and closed the adoption, all we can do is just wait. And so what me and Kate done, though, just in case, is that we kind of set up like, an email. And so we'll write to the email, you know, pretty frequently and just tell her, you know, love you, miss you, thinking of you, whatever. And then if. If or when she ever comes in, contacts us, we'll just give her the password and she can, you know. Yeah, I think it's. It's a. It's kind of like a safe space that, you know, then she can kind of read it in her own time and not to deal with the immediate, you know, like, physical, you know, confrontation or whatever. Like, I think it's a safe space. It kind of gives her a little bit more autonomy over her feelings and stuff.

B (43:46)

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A (47:19)

I mean, honestly, she has impacted everything. Me and Kate always talk about that. She, she, if it wasn't for Carly, I don't think me and Kate ever would have got therapy. I don't think we ever would have like examined our family dynamic and like really figured out what was wrong and we wouldn't have been able to identify any cycles that we wanted to break. And so if it was, I mean she was the catalyst for so much change and, and that change leaks into us being parents when we decide to, you know, have our children to raise them. So I mean she was a catalyst for everything. I mean she changed not only my life and Kate's life, but our children's life because it affected how we parent. And so I mean, yeah, I, I, I mean she, she was the driving force behind everything really.

B (48:10)

In your house, do you talk to your other children about Carly or, I.

A (48:15)

Mean we have pictures of her everywhere and, and you know, I think as far as her ages go, like she's one's four one six, about to be seven. They don't really say too much about it, but Nova does. And it's because Nova obviously had the longest, you know, she saw her every other year and growing up and then now she's not. So I, we let Nova drive the conversations. I never, we never like talk about it in front of Nova to where she's like, we try to like you distance oursel. If we're talking about it or whatever, we kind of just let her ask the question. And, and I'm, I'm a firm believer and I'm honest with my kids. I'm not here to like, I'm not here to sugarcoat anything for my Kids. So if she asked me what's going on, I'm honest with her. Because when I'm not honest with her, that kid's intuitive. She'll. She'll pick it up and she'll be like, okay, dad. I'm like, so, yeah, I mean, we. We talk to them as much as they kind of bring it up, you know?

B (49:15)

Do you ever look at Nova and see Carly? Because when I first saw pictures of Nova for the first time, I was like, wow, that they. They literally just copy paste twins.

A (49:30)

I swear. And especially their baby pictures, because we have. Obviously our house is covered in baby pictures of both of them. And I, like, they are almost identical. It's insane. But yeah, they. I mean, they look exactly alike. And I think that's why even growing up, Noble would, like, walk by a picture of them hold. You know, because Carly was older than her, so she's holding her as a baby. They're little kids, and it's like. And then Noble, like, four years later will walk by that same picture. Like, wow. Like, I look like that now. And I'm like, yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, dude, it's. It's wild. They look so much alike. It's. It's like, it's mind blowing. It's crazy.

B (50:06)

I want to talk about reality TV a little bit more and just living in the public eye, in your opinion. I obviously have my own. What do you think that reality TV gets right, and what do you think that they get wrong in regards to real life?

A (50:26)

I think one thing. I think one thing reality TV gets wrong when it comes to, like, real life is pretending that there's no production involved. Like, like, you know, there are a lot of natural, organic conversations that happen when you're filming, of course, but let's not pretend that they're filming us for 12 hours a day, you know, us just watching TV and stuff? Like, no, these are. These are TVs off and there's a production crew. And. And I almost wish every reality TV would break the fourth wall. I was gonna say, like, every reality TV just break the fourth wall. And I think as a viewer, obviously, I'm on it, but as a viewer, isn't that way more interesting to see, like, when you zoom out and get a wide shot of all the other cameras around this, you know, pre lit going on? Yeah, this is what it's like, so. And then also, like, when we're having real conversations and real raw emotions, we're doing it in front of a huge audience. Microphones, lights, cameras. It's like, it's huge. Which. Which we'd be lying if we said that didn't affect that current conversation. So I think what it gets wrong is just the actual transparency of what we're doing. Like, you might. You. When people watch it, they're like, oh, wow, this is great. But it's like you're imagining it from one viewpoint of, like, no one else around. Like, no, everyone's around. Everyone's listening. Like, you're mic'd up. Like, everything's being recorded. And so I think that's what they get wrong. I will say what it gets right is when you do see those organic emotional moments happen, like, that aren't produced and that aren't, like, influenced at all. Because I feel like people, you know, they. They almost, like, get the feeling that we are constantly, like, talking about our emotions all the time, and it's like, no, not really. But when it does happen, that's when it gets right. And that's what I actually really appreciate about MTV is because I have so much. I have a track record of so many emotionally, like, evolving moments that, like, just kind of relate to everything else in the future. And it's like having that kind of, like, having that kind of, like, album of just, like, memories and just, like, real raw emotions is what I really appreciate. I think that's what they get right most of the time.

B (52:36)

So I think that's what was so cool about y' all show, just in general, that they kind of got you at the right time. Because at 16 years old, 17 years old, you're still navigating such big emotions. You're still not an adult, but you're not really a kid, and you're now somewhat in business. Right. Probably unbeknownst to you, but.

A (53:01)

Right, right.

B (53:02)

And all of these things are going on, and it's all being documented, and you're learning over the time to feel so comfortable and vulnerable with the crew that you have to be able to have those conversations. And I do think that that is so incredibly important. I would absolutely agree with you 100%. Reality TV in general, every show needs to break the fourth wall.

A (53:25)

I agree. Yeah.

B (53:26)

If people saw what actually went on behind the scenes and saw what it takes to be able to create a show. And people also don't realize that, like, producers have feelings and they have thoughts and, you know, they're trying to. I don't know if y' all did pickup scenes or not on. You did on your show.

A (53:47)

Oh, yeah.

B (53:48)

And, you know, maybe they didn't get the Best cut the first time. I'm not a huge fan of that. I don't necessarily love the pickup scenes because now it feels, like, inauthentic. And it's produced, right?

A (54:02)

Yeah.

B (54:03)

First try and then let's be done with it. Let's move on to something else. If you didn't get what you wanted on that. Right. I don't love that. But I do think that people are just, like, nosy in general. We're all nosy people. Right. We want to know everything that's going on. So if people could actually see what you're saying, like, all the cameras getting mic'd up, what it looks like in the morning before filming, what it looks like while it's going on, people would have a better idea. And I think it would be perceived so much different.

A (54:30)

Yeah, I actually feel like if, like, if they actually broke the fourth wall, I think it would help a lot of the toxicity with, like, T pages or everyone that has these strong opinions that you need to zoom out and get a wide shot of what life is really like before you. I think it would help. Help a lot of people, like, be a little bit more sympathetic with. With what people are going through. Because it's a huge production. It's a huge thing. You think that we're just sitting here by ourselves having this fight or this argument, but there's like thousands of people that are watching, but there's like hundreds of people in your house and just all around. And so it's like, it's. It's a. If you broke the fourth wall, you'd be. I think it would humanize us a lot more, which I think would obviously, hopefully, like, create more empathy, because I think reality TV stars get the brunt of the most. I mean, they get the most critique, they get the most rumors spread about them, the most talked about them. And now that we have online and tick tock, it's like, it's even worse. And so, man, if they could break the fourth wall, it'd be so much better for everyone involved, honestly. Like, it would be. I wish they would just do it for everything, honestly. Even if it's just one little shot, like, hey, do the scene normally and then the last shot before that goes a commercial, boom, zoom out and see. Just. Just a visual of what this looks like would be. Would be huge. I think it would.

B (55:45)

I don't think networks necessarily will ever do it because we just have to be honest. They're making money off the controversy. Right. So people also don't understand that you could film a day of eight hours and film for an entire week, Monday through Friday. And it's being cut into such a small period of time that like, all the context around whatever they cut isn't there. So people are getting a very skewed sense of what's going on.

A (56:17)

Well, yeah, actually that brings up a good point because that's also what's what where yali TV gets wrong is that, you know, your story is not, in fact, up to you. It's up to whoever's in the editing room and whoever the, you know, major ups above them are telling them to cut and put in and put out. And so it's like, really, you're watching. Yeah, my true story, but you're watching it through the lens of somebody else and their bias opinions and they're. And what they believe is important. There's many times where we film scenes and I'm like, dude, why did they not put that in there? This would have made so much more sense. Like, what the. Dude, like, give us what the. Like, what was that? Like, they'll show a random reaction or a facial expression towards a situation that wasn't even. I wasn't even reacting with that facial expression to whatever you just aired. Like. Like what the.

B (57:04)

That takes me back to why I love podcasts so, so much. Because we have so much leverage to be able to give the real raw deal of what's going on for an hour a week. Right? Like, some shows release more than that, but for me, it's an hour a week on each show and it's not cut and spliced and diced to fit whatever narrative that's going on on tv. All right, ladies, let's talk about good hair days. Because they do more than we give them credit for. When your hair feels healthy, you truly show differently. You are more confident, more relaxed, and you're not constantly checking mirrors or adjusting your hair. And I have been there. Your hair becomes one less thing competing for your attention throughout the day. And that's why I love neutral Neutropol supports hair health from within, working over time to deliver results that you can see and feel so that your hair becomes something that you enjoy and not something that you are stressed about. If you have never heard of neutral, Neutral is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand and the number one hair growth brand personally used by dermatologists. Neutrful hair growth supplements are peer reviewed, NSF certified for sport and clinically tested to measure improvements in hair growth quality and strength. They do not use a one size fits all approach. Neutrful offers multiple formulas for men and women tailored to different life stages like postpartum or menopause and lifestyle factors such as plant based diet so that you can get the support that is actually right for you. Adding Neutral to your daily routine is so easy and that's why I've been able to stay so consistent. You order online, no prescription needed, with automated deliveries and free shipping to keep you on track. Plus, with a Nutrafol subscription, you can save up to 20% and get added perks to support your hair health journey. Let your hair be one less thing. Let your hair be one less thing to worry about. See visibly thicker, stronger, faster growing hair in three to six months with Nutrafol. For a limited time, Neutral is offering our listeners 10 off your first month subscription and free shipping. When you visit, visit neutropol.com and enter promo code Southern T. That's Neutropol spelled N U T R A F O L.com promo code Southern Tea. Did you and Caitlyn ever have any, like, conversations about, you know, the conversations that you personally weren't going to have on the show or you just kind of winged it?

A (59:34)

Yeah, honestly, me and Kate, that was one thing that we, we agreed upon on like pretty early on. We're like, listen, the moment you give me a script, we're out. The moment that we feel like we need to, like, not be authentic and open about everything and transparent, we're out. Because I don't think I. My energy, I can't handle lack of authenticity. There's no way I could like, consciously film a show, watch it be aired and then inside knowing that, like, it's not what really happened or that conversation wasn't, you know, wasn't my true thoughts, like, so me and Kate had a very agreement early on. Listen, like, we're going to be fully transparent, even the bad stuff, even the stuff that could come and bite us in the ass, which has in the future. It is what it is. I'd rather live, you know, authentically and be a little uncomfortable than live not authentically and be comfortable. That makes sense, you know?

B (60:25)

Sure. How did y' all explain, like the filming and the cameras and stuff to your kids? Or was it just never a conversation?

A (60:33)

It never was a conversation because I just grew up with it. Like, everybody, every child I've had has been born on TV and then followed for years after that. So these kids end up being raised around this so they feel like it's normal. And I Think it's kind of. It's. It's a beautiful thing because, look, they get so close to the crew members, and they, you know, they. They become like family for us, and so the kids. But I. I did, you know, Nova. I can't remember what age she was. Was. I want to say maybe four. When I was like, hey, listen, like, if you don't want to film today, let me know, and I will send them home. I'll just say it's. It's a wrap. So I. I made sure. I wanted to give them, like, that freedom to, like. Yeah, because you don't come home from school, you remember being a kid. It's like, I don't. You know, I don't ever want to be, like, a burden or feel like it was forced on them. So pretty early on, they brought four or five. I was like, listen, you're in control of this, this. And I told the crew member I would joke with them, hey, listen, she's the boss. I'm like, so, you know, I mean, if she don't want to do something today, it ain't happening. And so as they got older, realizing that me and Kate had this job to do, we would take the conversation outside the house, and I would tell the crew member, you're not. You can't go in a room today. You can't go in the living room today. You can't. We're not. You know what I mean? Because my kid doesn't want to do it, and I'm not gonna force him to do it. So, like, that's the only conversation that we ever really had to have was like, where's the boundaries? Because my kids. Boundaries come first. Before any contract is.

B (62:02)

Is TV and production. Boundary is a foreign word, right?

A (62:07)

It is.

B (62:08)

You have to create them for yourself, because they certainly are not going to create them, and they're going to push them.

A (62:16)

Yeah, I mean, you have to. Literally, you have to force it yourself or else you're never going to. You're. You're never going to have them. And that's why. What I have to say for. For as far as our personal production company and our crew, they were so respectful of it. Like, they were like. They never, like, forced anything. They always listened to us and respected us. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that they. They were close with our kids. So it's like they watch them from babies. Now they're four. If I. If. If she goes up to the producer and goes, hey, you know, I. I'm thirsty. The producer's like, oh yeah, go to the crafty car, go, go in the cooler, get, you know, get, get a drink. So I had to say in that aspect, like, we fe with. With kind of how integrated the crew became with our like family life.

B (62:59)

So that's so awesome. In your opinion, how do you feel like fame at such a young age impacted your mental health?

A (63:10)

Well, I, oh man, that's. I think it impacted it in two ways. Obviously there's a lot of good things that happen, but a lot of bad things I think as well, I think, think the, you know, when you're young, you're not thinking of the negative backlash you're gonna get from people online and just you're not thinking at 17, I gotta defend myself against Matt Lauer on the Today show. You're not thinking of any of these things. So I think that part is the part that impacts mental health because I think, you know, the backlash that like for instance, that Kate had to go through just because she had postpartum and had suicidal ideation, she went to treatment and she just got ripped apart. I mean people were just so cruel and mean about it. And, and I think that had more of an impact on her already detrimenting mental health issues than, than it, than it would if that wasn't involved. And then I think on the flip side, for me personally, like, I appreciate the mirror that it gives you in your own life. Like there's many times where I would watch a scene, I'll be, oof. Like wow. I see a clip and I'd be like wow. Like I go to my therapist, I'll be, listen, like my temper, my a. So I think it helped. It was, it was a good like self reflection tool. And I think that's why for me personally, like it never really affected my mental health in a negative way as much as it did with Kate. Because I try to look at it like I'm going to use this as like a self reflection tool to kind of like figure out what I want to work on as a person. And so, and honestly, being recorded and being growing up on tv, it, it creates a natural, inevitable accountability. You have to be accountable for what you've said, what you've done in the heat of the moment, even if you were mad or whatever. Like, you know, it does, it creates like inevitable accountability. Which that's what I appreciated probably the most about it.

B (65:05)

I can completely agree with you. It sucks so bad sometimes to see what some people write on social media. And when, you know, of course, when you signed Yalls TV contracts. You didn't know what was going on.

A (65:17)

Right.

B (65:18)

When I signed up to be a part of a show, I didn't really know what was going on. I was older than you, but I still didn't know what that was going to bring for life. Right. Like, you can't imagine it until you're living in it. And then you start seeing all this stuff and backlash that's online and it's like, how do I navigate this because I didn't necessarily sign up for it. It. And then to your point, you're like, okay, well you know, maybe I'm getting this backlash because I need to be accountable for whatever it is and self reflect on that. The problem is that people who very much struggle with mental health issues, somebody that was going through something like Kate, it's like a double edged sword. You want to share and you want to be authentic, but at the same time when you do and you get beat up over it, like, where, where is the breaking point?

A (66:08)

Yeah, like where do you draw a line with, you know, I'm gonna be transparent at the detriment of myself. Like, you know, so like, I feel like it's a weird like. And it's interesting too because people will say like, well, you signed up for it. No, I did not sign up to be ridiculed, judged and criticized with such visceral cruelty. That's not what I signed up for. I signed up to show my life and be transparent parent. And I think people believe like, oh, will you sign up for. It's like, no, I did not sign up to be treated like or talked about or had rumors spread about me. That's not it. So I think people get it confused where it's almost like the fact that I signed this contract and decide to be, you know, transparent and vulnerable doesn't give you the right that you think it does to just totally just try to destroy me or my reputation or my character. Because I'm a real human being. I know you're watching me on TV and I think people, people after so long of watching someone on tv, you just automatically like adopt them as a character. I'm not a character written to a script. This is my real life, my real kids. You know what I mean? So the stuff that you're talking about me afterwards is, is real. Like, so I think people need to humanize more reality TV stars specifically because they are real people with real emotions that have real issues that, you know, know, aren't really spoken about all the time. So like you know, no one really knew the depths that Kate was going through. You know, so it's like, you gotta be careful. Be a human first and then you want to talk your later. Sure. But do it through an empathetic lens at least. Like, try to be a decent person. God damn.

B (67:48)

I don't know if you would agree with this, but I have been saying for years after exiting TV that I feel like all reality TV contracts should provide whoever's signing that contract to participate mental health support. Whether that be like counseling or, you know, therapists, whatever, they should be able to provide that in those contracts. Because 100 to your point, you're not signing up for all of the social media backlash that you're getting for being authentic and sharing your life. Right?

A (68:22)

Yeah.

B (68:22)

And then the other part of it is, is if I had to do it all over again for some of the things that I've had to deal with and very, very much struggled with my mental health and, and did for years for certain things, I never made enough money doing that to justify, you know, the feed and the fate to the trauma.

A (68:42)

Right. It's funny because actually Kate said the same thing when, when she was in the middle of treatment and she was like, for one, she was like, I didn't sign up for this. And for two, it was like, like this wasn't worth it. Like, it. I would, I would, I would never trade my mental health for this amount of money. You can't put a price on it because once it hits you, it hits you and it's, it's over with. So I totally agree. Like, like if, if you're going to be on a reality TV show and, and, or even have a production network, like you should be, you, you have a, like a moral responsibility to help these people. Because the first time Kate went to treatment, treatment, I mean, we paid out of pocket for that. And it's very expensive and you know, MTV was allowed to capitalize on that. They followed her, her mental health journey and, but didn't help with any of it. You know what I mean? So it's like, and that's when Kate was like, this is. We're in treatment. We're paying $40,000 out of pocket to pay for this treatment. And they're just documenting it and making all this money off of my trauma. You know what I mean? So it's like, yeah, there's a, there's a moral and ethical responsibility for sure. And I feel like, like, you know, when we signed up for this Show Back in 2009, there was no Twitter. There was no Instagram. Like, it's way different for anyone. Like, if you sign up for a TV show from 2015 and on, you know what I mean? Like, there was nothing before that. It was. There was. You didn't experience the backlash you have now. You could. You could read in a magazine and then escape it. But ever since social media got involved, it's. It's a total different. Like, totally different territory when it comes to protecting your mental health.

B (70:16)

Do you remember back in the day when you had to go to, like, the grocery store or, like, a Walgreens or a CVS to see any of the news about anybody on tv because you saw it in, like, Us Weekly or People magazine or whatever, the National Enquirer.

A (70:33)

Now.

B (70:34)

Now everything is so accessible online that. That people can literally make it their job to bully you all day long.

A (70:41)

And then the crazy part about the magazine stuff, too, is that, like, you know, now that social media is here, it's immediate. And so you could go to sleep one night, wake up to a totally different. Like, there's already a narrative out there about you that may not be true. That spread like wildfire, which, like you said back in the day, it was one magazine cover, a couple magazine covers that you could kind of just read. And it was limited. The pages ended. Did. There was no comments. You know what I mean? Like, no one else throwing their opinion involved. And now it's a. It's a completely different ball game. And I think any kind of network that is involved in reality TV needs to take into account that that's what these people are getting themselves into. And I think they do have a moral responsibility to provide them some kind of. I think they should provide financial advice, they should provide a counselor, and if someone's going through a crisis, rehab, all of it, like, you need to actually really remember that there's real human beings that you're working with that are being vulnerable. Like, they're making you a lot of money, so the least you could do is treat them like a human, you know? Damn.

B (71:43)

I just want to say I love you and Kate so much and so proud of everything that y' all have done. So proud that y' all are in the podcast space and would love for you to share with my audience just a little bit about your show where people can find you and kind of the topics and stuff that you guys cover over there.

A (72:03)

Thank you. I appreciate it. I'm. Me and Kate, we've been listening from afar. I think you and Kale totally started the whole thing. And I think you deserve all the flowers, all the credit because I don't think any of us would really be able to be here without it. So I appreciate it. But yeah, Kate and Ty Break it Down is. Is kind of our podcast that we. It's a passion product of ours that we've been, you know, really excited to do and feel really honored to be a part of it. We talk from everything from addiction to adoption to, you know, relationship, marriage stuff. I mean, there's really no subjects that we're not willing to. To tackle. And yeah, Kate and Ty Break it down at, you know, all social media handles, Instagram, Facebook, Caitlyn Tyler's fan page on Facebook is another thing you can connect with us on. So, yeah, we. I just appreciate the opportunity, Lindsay, for, for bringing me up here and, and having the channel chat, for sure.

B (72:55)

And what days do you guys air?

A (72:57)

Wednesdays every me.

B (72:59)

Hey, see, yeah, I love it back to back.

A (73:03)

So you watch other, you know, you listen to Southern T, go to K and time, break it down.

B (73:07)

You know, they'll be covered for hours worth of time so that you can, you know, get on Facebook and listen to what everybody has to say about us.

A (73:16)

I love it. Right. Yeah.

B (73:18)

Well, thank you so much for joining, joining me. That is all we have time for today. If you have not followed the show on Instagram, you can do that at the Southern Tea podcast. Also, you can find us on Facebook and listen to us from any podcast app. Wherever you get your pods, always first at Podcast one. We hope you guys have a great week and we'll talk to you soon. Pluto TV has thousands of free movies and TV shows.

A (73:43)

This is the mindset. Free. This is the mantra. Free. This is the time to. With movies like Joe dirt, pixels and 50 first dates. This is awesome. And TV shows like Survivor, SpongeBob SquarePants.

B (73:58)

The fairly odd Parents and Ghosts. Pluto TV is always free.

A (74:03)

Huzzah. Pluto TV stream now pay Never. You're welcome.

B (74:09)

Hi, I'm Stassi Schroeder. On my podcast, I share candid updates from my personal life, chat with some of my best friends about what's going on in our lives, give commentary on the latest pop culture headlines, and sometimes deep dive into random topics. I'm obsessed with like, human design. It's a bit all over the place, but that's how I like it. And you will too. Listen to my podcast, Stassi, wherever you get your podcasts.