Podcast Summary: The Spiritual Life with Fr. James Martin, S.J.

Episode: A Black, gay Catholic priest on living authentically
Date: February 24, 2026
Host: Fr. James Martin, S.J. (America Media)
Guest: Fr. Bryan Massingale, Professor of Theology and Social Ethics, Fordham University

Overview

This episode features a candid and moving conversation with Fr. Bryan Massingale, a Black, openly gay, and celibate Catholic priest and preeminent scholar on racial justice and LGBTQ+ issues within the Church. Inspired by both Black History Month and the Lenten season, the dialogue explores the challenges and gifts of living authentically as a priest with compounded, marginalized identities. Fr. Massingale reflects on his spiritual life, the intersecting realities of being Black and gay in the Catholic Church, the cost and freedom of authenticity, and his deep commitment to ministering to those similarly marginalized or wounded by the church.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Navigating “Compounded” Identities (06:13–13:00)

• Unique Position: Fr. Massingale explains that he doesn’t follow a “blueprint” for combining his Blackness, gayness, Catholic faith, and priestly vocation:

  “There isn't really a blueprint for how to do how to live these—not intersectional identities, but compounded identities... I'm kind of, like, making it up as I go along.” (B, 06:36)

• Loneliness: He notes the greatest loneliness comes not from laypeople, but from fellow clergy, due to stigma and fear:

  “The most rejecting or standoffish reactions I've gotten have come from my fellow clergy.” (B, 09:24) “If we're friends with you now, what will people think about us?” (B, 08:38)

Coming Out as a Priest: Motivation and Impact (11:27–17:46)

• Motivation: Fr. Massingale describes his public coming out as not about personal attention, but “to let God’s love come through—God’s love is for all of us.” (B, 11:29; 13:02)
• Global Witness: He shares the story of coming out at an international Rainbow Catholics meeting, inspired by the courage of others risking much more in hostile contexts.

  “They said, no, we need your words... we can use your message.” (B, 12:38)

• Response: While his coming out led to some personal losses, the positive impact on others, especially students and parishioners, has far outweighed the negatives.

The Power and Cost of Authenticity (18:03–22:39)

• Positive Reactions:

  “[The] negatives are far, far, far exceeded by the positives. My students... when I talk about being Catholic, they hear me in a different way, because it's like, well, wait a minute. If you're Black and you're gay and you're Catholic, that means there can be a place for me.” (B, 18:04)

• Memorable Moment: He recounts receiving a rainbow Star Trek mug from LGBTQ students in honor of his priesthood:

  “They wanted to do something to honor my priesthood and the fact that I am a gay man who has answered this call.” (B, 19:40)

• On Freedom and Community:

  “Your authenticity has freed others to do the same... I think there's a real profound truth... when we allow ourselves to be authentic... that gives [others] the courage, the witness, to also embrace who they are.” (B, 21:57)

Spirituality in the Face of Rejection (24:00–29:42)

• Spirituality Formed in Rejection:

  “I've learned that God is with me even through the rejection... It makes me understand the cross a little better.” (B, 24:23)

• Authentic Faith: His spiritual director once asked,

  “How much is your integrity worth to you?” (B, 25:18)
  —prompting him to embrace that “the hurt, the rejection, that is part of the spiritual life... is the price of integrity.”

• For the Marginalized: Fr. Massingale expresses sorrow for those wounded by the Church, encouraging them to know they are not alone and to acknowledge that their suffering is unjust, yet a cross carried in fellowship:

  “On behalf of the church... I am sorry... But you're not alone in this journey. In that walking together, we can find grace.” (B, 27:18)

The Catholic Church and Race (30:32–39:39)

• Muted Voice on Racial Justice:

  “Standing for racial justice has never been a major badge of Catholic identity in this country... Its voice when it comes to race has been rather muted.” (B, 31:09)

• Normative Whiteness:

  “There is what I call a normative whiteness that characterizes American Catholicism... there is a pervasive feeling in this country that Catholic equals white or Roman.” (B, 32:40)

• Personal Stories: Fr. Massingale recounts racism he experienced as a priest, both from laity and within parish settings:

  “He should have sent us a real priest.” (B, 34:32)

Remaining in and Loving the Church (35:58–39:39)

• Reasons for Staying: He highlights his love for the Eucharist, the Church’s sacramental and intellectual traditions, and the global Catholic community. Most personal is his belief that,

  “This is the work my soul must do.” (B, 37:26)

• The Prophetic Role:

  “The Church needs me... it needs the witness of Black Catholics, it needs the witness of LGBTQ Catholics... Each of us are trying to help the Church become who it says it is: a universal group.” (B, 37:50)

• The Joy of Ministry:

  “The joy is amazing... I love being a priest. I love being a professor. I would not trade this life for anything.” (B, 39:18)

Personal Spiritual Practices (40:45–45:44)

• Journaling: He keeps handwritten journals, reviews them annually, and finds revelations in both writing and re-reading.

  “When I become deeply centered in the reality of who I am, that's where I encounter the voice of the spirit.” (B, 42:15)

• Music as Prayer: Favorite hymns include “All Creatures of Our God and King” and especially the gospel hymn “Blessed Assurance,” which helps him feel profoundly held by God:

  “When I sing that or when I hear that song, I'm just resting in the presence of a God who knows me and loves me deeply and knows all of me.” (B, 44:08)

• Contemplative Practice: Also finds solace in sitting silently with a candle, waiting for “echoes of mercy, whispers of love.” (B, 45:11)

Audience Question: Supporting LGBTQ Children Who Refuse Mass (45:44–49:15)

• Fr. Jim's Advice: Parents become “the church” for their children by continuing to love and support them; recommends pointing them to welcoming parishes.
• Fr. Bryan's Approach:

  “Be a good parent and... understand the pain of your child... The church is not just an institution... church exists where people are doing what Christ did... Just be present to that one right now.” (B, 47:07) “You don't have to be ready for that [return to church] now, but when and if you're ever ready, let's together look for these resources.” (B, 48:33)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Authenticity:

  “I came out to let God's love come forth, that God's love is for all of us. And my being open about that, I think, I hope, can be a witness to the wider church that, yes, God's love, God's grace can be found even here in this black gay body.” (B, 13:02)

• On Church’s Need for Diversity:

  “The church needs me... [it] needs the witness of Black Catholics. It needs the witness of LGBTQ Catholics... to help this imperfect institution to become, in the words of Pope Paul VI, a less and less imperfect witness to the reign of God.” (B, 37:46)

• On Parental Support:

  “Be present to that one right now. That’s okay.” (B, 48:10)

• On Integrity and the Cross:

  “The cross is the price of integrity... But as Christians, we don’t believe the cross is the end.” (B, 26:16–26:50)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Navigating Black and gay identity as a priest: 06:13–13:00
• The motivation and impact of coming out: 11:27–17:46
• Authenticity, community, and positive reactions: 18:03–22:39
• Rejection, prayer, and integrity: 24:00–29:42
• Race and the Catholic Church: 30:32–39:18
• Why remain in the Church: 35:58–39:39
• Personal prayer and spiritual practice: 40:45–45:44
• Parenting LGBTQ children away from church: 45:44–49:15

Tone and Language

The conversation is direct, honest, and both pastorally sensitive and theologically rich. Fr. Massingale’s language is compassionate and clear, often weaving in personal narrative, spiritual wisdom, and gentle humor.

Conclusion

Fr. Bryan Massingale’s presence and witness in this episode shine a light on what it means to live with integrity, courage, and deep hope as a marginalized Catholic. His discussion with Fr. Martin models the kind of authenticity, empathy, and spiritual wisdom that many seek from both church leaders and spiritual life broadly. The episode affirms that the “work of the soul” often means both prophetic honesty and profound love—even within, and sometimes because of, suffering.

For more, visit The Spiritual Life: America Media