Podcast Summary: The Spiritual Life with Fr. James Martin, S.J.

Episode: A Trappist Monk on How to Stop Judging Others
Date: September 30, 2025
Host: Fr. James Martin, S.J., with producer Maggie Van Dorn
Guest: Fr. Isaac Slater, O.C.S.O. (Trappist Monk, Abbey of the Genesee)
Theme: Exploring the spiritual practice of not judging, the power of silence, and living a contemplative life in a polarized world.

Episode Overview

This episode features a deep and practical conversation between Fr. James Martin and Trappist monk Fr. Isaac Slater, centering on the challenge of judgment—both of self and others—in the spiritual life. Drawing on Fr. Isaac’s new book Do Not Judge: Desert Wisdom for a Polarized World, the discussion explores what it means to cultivate inner silence, the realities of monastic life, the difference between spiritual discernment and judgment, and how anyone can live a more prayerful, loving life amidst everyday distractions and social struggles.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Struggles of Spiritual Teachers (02:22–05:50)

• Audience Question: "What do you and other spiritual teachers struggle with in the spiritual life?"
  • Fr. James Martin: Spiritual teachers deal with the same struggles as anyone—especially judgment, interior criticism of others, staleness, and pride.
    • “We’re struggling with the same sins, right? … There might be an added struggle, which would be pride. … It’s easy to let that go to your head.” (03:10)
• Insight: The need for humility and awareness of being “loved sinners.”
  • “It is recognizing that I am sinful and imperfect… We are all loved sinners.” (05:04)

2. The Trappist Way of Life (07:31–10:06)

• Life as a Trappist Monk:
  • Fr. Isaac describes a life structured around the Rule of St. Benedict: community under an abbot, daily liturgies, manual labor, strict silence, and deep prayer—all as a path to “bring God’s mercy into the world.” (08:01)
• Personal Vocation:
  • “Well, the short answer would be desperation, I think... This was the only way where the seed... could really flourish.” (08:45)
  • Monastic life as the “school of love”—a place to learn what is most important.

3. The Power and Practice of Silence (10:40–14:33)

• Why Silence is Transformative:
  • “It creates a space for something deep within us to flower... your guard starts to go down.” (11:07)
  • Silence isn’t only absence of noise; it’s an interior attitude, possible even amidst external bustle.
• Living Among Noise:
  • “It’s more a matter of attunement... Once you’re anchored in that freedom and spaciousness, it can happen anywhere.” (13:41)

4. Realities of Monastic Community: Judgment & Relationship (14:12–17:15)

• Community is Challenging:
  • The hardest part isn’t early mornings or asceticism, but “asceticism of relationship”: learning to live alongside people you find difficult.
  • “You have to figure out... a way to live alongside this person that you find so troubling. That’s one of the great challenges of the life.” (14:33)
  • Contemplative prayer and inner recollection help navigate interpersonal tension.

5. On Holiness and Perceptions (17:15–19:38)

• No One is More Holy Than Another:
  • “Only God is holy and no one is good but God alone, as Jesus teaches… God is constantly loving us into being at each moment, nearer to us than we are to ourselves.” (18:22)
  • Holiness and deep prayer are not limited to monastics—everyone is invited.

6. Personal Prayer & Image of God (19:38–24:07)

• Types of Monastic Prayer:
  • Liturgy, chanting psalms, Eucharist, lectio divina, and “silent prayer”—resting in God’s presence.
  • “Basically, your whole life becomes a prayer at a certain point. You’re just kind of swimming in the river all day long.” (19:59)
• What’s Going On Internally?:
  • “There’s very little going on… it’s like Jesus asleep in the boat… eventually it quiets down and you’re just there resting with Jesus.” (21:32)
• Evolving Image of God:
  • Early experiences of grace are fundamental; with time, complications and distortions fall away.
  • “God is all loving, all merciful, and we just complicate it later. So I just don’t complicate it as much anymore as when I first entered.” (23:28)

7. The Challenge and Healing of Not Judging (26:00–33:37)

• Jesus’s Command Not to Judge:
  • “I think...we are disowning something in ourselves that’s too painful to look at and we put it on the other person.” (26:44)
  • Harsh judgment of others often reflects inner harshness toward oneself.
• Failure and Growth:
  • Fr. Isaac: “This book on not judging is kind of the fruit of 25 years of suffering and failure, failure at the not judging.” (28:07)
  • Judgment vs. Discernment:
    • “Discernment is the authentic good of which judging is the distortion. Judging is always putting the other down… Discernment is with and for everyone.” (29:28)
• Desert Father Story:
  • Abba who protected a monk from public shame—choosing a creative, compassionate response instead of condemnation (30:25–32:53).

8. Letting Go, Overlooking Faults, and Creative Spiritual Responses (32:53–36:01)

• Overlooking Minor Faults:
  • “There are very few things I really need to argue about… we can let go of 99.9% of the things that we get animated about.” (32:58)
• Responding in the "Real World":
  • Don’t react to negativity—act creatively, free from “persecutory fervor.”
  • “Why are you giving that person so much power?... Instead, act out of that bubbling wellspring of divine love.” (34:29)

9. Judgment, Social Media, and Inner Healing (36:01–41:59)

• On Social Media’s Toxicity:
  • “Once we can be generous and gentle towards our own brokenness, then it starts to be naturally extended to other people.” (36:46)
  • Social media judgments often project false constructs; both accuser and accused become "fictions." (38:48)
• Negative Bias of the Human Heart:
  • The brain processes shame rapidly, but takes “30–90 seconds of deliberate attention” to absorb validation or love (41:04).

10. Desert Wisdom and Modern Psychology (41:59–43:24)

• Ancient truths, current insights:
  • Psychology affirms Desert Fathers’ insights on judgment, projection, and human behavior.
  • “Each new generation and cultural context is discovering new facets and meanings...the teaching of not judging is a central pillar, worth revisiting in our context.” (42:18)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “A monk is somebody who’s been touched by God very deeply but realizes how quickly we lose focus.” — Fr. Isaac Slater (08:45)
• “The more recollected you are, the less acrimonious your conflict becomes.” — Fr. Isaac Slater (15:48)
• “God is just as near to me as he is to you, as he is to anyone.” — Fr. Isaac Slater (18:36)
• “Your whole life becomes a prayer at a certain point, you’re just kind of swimming in the river all day long.” — Fr. Isaac Slater (19:59)
• “Judging is always putting the other down to build myself up. Discernment is with and for everyone.” — Fr. Isaac Slater (29:28)
• “There are very few things that I really need to argue about...we can let go of 99.9%.” — Fr. Isaac Slater (32:58)
• “The accuser and the accused are both fictions...they don’t really see me.” — Fr. Isaac Slater (38:48)
• “The brain...takes only three seconds to process a shaming comment...but 30 to 90 seconds to absorb validation.” — Fr. Isaac Slater (41:04)

Timestamps of Important Segments

• 02:22 — Struggles spiritual teachers face
• 07:31 — What is a Trappist monk?
• 08:45 — Isaac’s path to monastic life
• 11:07 — Silence: its spiritual necessity
• 14:33 — Challenges of community and “asceticism of relationship”
• 18:22 — No one is holier than another
• 19:59 — Types of prayer in monastic life
• 21:32 — What happens internally during silent prayer
• 26:00 — Discussion on judging and Jesus’ teaching
• 28:07 — Failure and the struggle not to judge
• 29:28 — Judging vs. discerning
• 30:25 — Desert Father story: creative, compassionate non-judgment
• 32:58 — Overlooking most causes for criticism
• 34:29 — Creative responses vs. reaction in difficult “real world” situations
• 36:46 — Inner healing, social media, extending empathy
• 41:04 — Human bias toward negative feedback
• 42:18 — Contemporary psychology affirming ancient wisdom

Practical Recommendations for Listeners

• Cultivate Silence: Even a few moments in daily life can nurture receptivity to God.
• Let Go of Judgment: Notice stories you tell about others; resist the need to correct or condemn.
• Respond, Don’t React: Seek creative, loving alternatives in conflict (as modeled by Jesus and the Desert Fathers).
• Structure Your Environment: Build small habits/rituals to anchor your prayer, limit social media, and encourage recollection.
• Be Gentle with Yourself: Healing self-judgment is the foundation of empathy for others.

Final Reflections

Fr. Isaac’s contemplative wisdom invites Christians of every walk of life—not just monks—to see deep prayer, non-judgment, and radical inner silence as life-giving practices available to all. Spiritual growth is less about superhuman holiness and more about returning to our “deepest heart’s desire” and allowing God’s mercy to flow through even our most imperfect relationships and communities.