Podcast Summary: “Mirabai Starr on How Everyone Can Be a Mystic”

The Spiritual Life with Fr. James Martin, S.J.
Host: America Media
Guest: Mirabai Starr
Date: September 23, 2025

Overview

This episode explores the nature of mysticism and the invitation for everyone—regardless of background or religious upbringing—to live a mystical, prayerful life. Fr. James Martin engages Mirabai Starr, a renowned author and translator of mystics, in a rich conversation about personal grief, spiritual longing, the essence of mystical experience, and how ordinary moments can hold sacred presence. Their dialogue also touches on practical advice for those struggling with grief, or with religious and moral divisions within families.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Mirabai Starr’s Spiritual Upbringing and Early Encounters with the Divine

• Background: Raised in a non-religious (and anti-religious) Jewish family in New York, Mirabai’s interest in spirituality was a form of rebellion.
  • “I rebelled through throwing myself into the arms of every religious tradition I encountered... But any of the more mystical aspects of the world's religious traditions had this, and continue to have this attraction for me that is bordering on passion.” (07:18)
• Lama Foundation: At 15, moved to this interfaith spiritual community near Taos, NM; was exposed to the rituals and insights of many world religions.
• First Encounter with Jesus: The act of foot washing by Fr. Theophane stood out for its message of humility and equality: “The generosity of spirit of Christ... as part of this Passover feast... he would kneel at the feet of all of his companions and tenderly wash their feet was symbolic to me of everything that Christianity must truly be in its essence.” (10:17)

Grief as a Gateway to the Sacred

• Personal Loss: Loss has been a recurring theme: Mirabai’s brother died of a brain tumor at age 10, her first love was killed in an accident at 14, and her daughter Jenny died at 14.
  • “Death has always been my doorway to the sacred and continues to be, for better or worse.” (12:04)
• Experience of Grief:
  • Grief is not an either/or proposition: “We get to have both realities present in this same broken open vessel of our hearts in grief and loss.” (16:00)
  • Anger and awe can coexist: “Our brokenness is tenderizing our hearts and watering the garden of our authentic being and connecting us with others.” (18:48)
• Elie Wiesel Story: Even after putting God “on trial” during the Holocaust, the compulsion to pray remained: “…the verdict came in and it was guilty. And then said the rabbi among them, the first star has just risen in the sky and now it is time to pray.” (19:25)

Defining Mystical Experience

• What Is Mysticism?
  • “My definition of a mystical experience is pretty classic... it's a direct experience of the divine... often spontaneous... a momentary experience of rising above the illusion of our separation from God and being immersed in that presence, in that sacred presence.” (22:24)
  • Mystical moments aren’t always dramatic; they can be found in everyday life, nature, cooking, or conflict.
  • Fr. Martin: "A mystical experience is momentary... a flash... it implies some oneness and a kind of dissolving of the barriers between you and God." (54:37)
• Inclusivity of Mysticism:
  • Mirabai emphasizes mysticism is everyone’s birthright: “Your life is holy ground. And you are a mystic... all it means to be a mystic is to have a direct experience of the sacred.” (28:00)
• How to Become More Open to Mysticism:
  • Practice intention and attention, cultivate availability, and treasure small moments of connection.

Ordinary Spiritual Moments as Sacred

• Cooking as Mystical Practice: Mirabai shares how making a simple stir fry can turn into a mystical experience through full presence and wonder.
  • “It became an ecstatic experience... there was a sense of participating in the fullness of creation and having my rightful place in it all and needing to praise it.” (29:50)
• Nature and Beauty: The abundance of the sacred in nature is accessible to all.
  • Fr. Martin reflects on a childhood memory in a meadow: “I just had this sense of I want this, you know, I want to possess this. I want to kind of enter into it.” (33:03)

The Mystics Who Inspire Mirabai

• Personal Pantheon:
  • “My network of spiritual beings that I lean on are all Catholic mystics. … John of the Cross and Teresa of Ávila are the ones who are dearest to me by virtue of having translated them.” (35:27)
  • Translating Divine Works: She describes translation as a kind of “darshan”—receiving blessing from these mystics.

Brief Sketches:

• Teresa of Ávila: Born in 1515, strong-willed, transformed by suffering and conversion at 40, found home in both prayer and her lively nature. (37:15)
• John of the Cross: Poetic, contemplative, imprisoned for his reformist visions. Mystical experience as the “fruit of that deep encounter with nothing.” (40:57)
• Julian of Norwich: Noted for “oneing”—the mystical unity with God.

Jesus, Mary, and Universal Spiritual Life

• Jesus:
  • Grown from suspicion to devotion; inspired by Jesus' teachings of loving-kindness and inclusion.
  • “It was the mystic who invited me into a much bigger field that Jesus inhabited as Christ as the embodiment of love in this world.” (44:21)
• Mary: Especially meaningful as a fellow grieving mother, with Mary as an ‘entree’ to Jesus for Mirabai.

Grief, Presence, and Spiritual Growth

• Grieving as an Act of Love: “Because I love my child, I didn’t want to turn away from her even in death, that I would be present for the experience of losing her as an act of loving her, as an act of devotion to her.” (48:47)
• Advice for Those Grieving: Don’t rush or bypass the pain; “dip in and step back,” modulate presence with self-kindness.

Navigating Religious and Moral Divisions in Families

• Advice to Listeners: Arguments rarely heal; what changes hearts is “deep listening and empathizing, finding something in the opposing viewpoints...with true open heart and authentic curiosity and tenderness.” (50:46)
• Stories Over Arguments: Fr. Martin references Walter Brueggemann—stories open hearts, arguments close them. (03:13)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

(Timestamps in MM:SS format)

• On spiritual attraction:
  “Any of the more mystical aspects of the world's religious traditions had this, and continue to have this attraction for me that is bordering on passion.” —Mirabai Starr, (07:18)
• On grief’s complexity:
  “It's not versus. It's not one or the other for me. …We get to have both realities present in this same broken open vessel of our hearts in grief and loss.” —Mirabai Starr, (16:00)
• On mystical experience:
  “Direct experience of the divine... it's momentary experience of rising above the illusion of our separation from God and being immersed in that presence.” —Mirabai Starr, (22:24)
• On ordinary mysticism:
  “Your life is holy ground. And you are a mystic... all it means to be a mystic is to have a direct experience of the sacred.” —Mirabai Starr, (28:00)
• On integrating grief:
  “Because I love my child, I didn’t want to turn away from her even in death.” —Mirabai Starr, (48:47)
• On family divisions:
  “Stories and experience really help the most and certainly can make for calmer family settings…” —Fr. James Martin, (03:13)
• On sacred in daily life:
  “I came back with this basket of vegetables... and it became an ecstatic experience. …I was stirring these vegetables and... the next thing I knew, there was a sense of participating in the fullness of creation.” —Mirabai Starr, (29:50)

Key Timestamps

• Introduction & Mirabai’s Background: 00:48–11:13
• Encountering Grief & Mysticism: 12:04–19:25
• Defining Mystical Experience: 22:24–27:36
• Accessibility of Mysticism: 27:53–33:03
• Influence of the Mystics (Teresa of Ávila, John of the Cross, Julian of Norwich): 35:27–44:10
• Jesus and Universal Spirituality: 44:10–45:50
• Grief and Spiritual Practice: 46:10–50:16
• Reconciling Family Divisions: 50:46–52:16
• Host Reflections & Takeaways: 54:01–61:02

Conclusion

Mirabai Starr’s insights offer an affirming vision: mystical experience is not reserved for saints but is something everyone can taste through openness, presence, beauty, and love—even in suffering. Through stories of profound loss, ordinary joys, and the wisdom of Catholic mystics, Fr. Martin and Mirabai illuminate that the spiritual life flourishes not just despite difficulties but through them. The invitation is to “string those [mystical] moments together,” making all of life holy ground.