S E22: The Sports Thing Podcast w/Holmberg, Hellestrae And Nash - Episode 22 - 01-13-26

Summary

The Sports Thing Podcast w/Holmberg, Hellestrae & Nash

Episode: S E22 - January 15, 2026
Host: John Holmberg
Guests: Dale Hellestrae, Dave Nash, Steve McCollum
Main Theme: NFL Playoffs, Coaching Changes, Analytics in Sports, College Football, and Athlete Payments

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Episode Overview

In this dynamic episode, John Holmberg and his panel of seasoned sports commentators break down a historic NFL Wild Card weekend, debate coaching philosophies, react in real time to the bombshell news of Mike Tomlin's resignation from the Pittsburgh Steelers, and discuss the shifting landscape of college football, particularly Indiana's Cinderella season. The episode wraps with a heated discussion about athlete compensation, WNBA labor threats, Arizona sports, and a touch of political intrigue.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. NFL Wild Card Weekend: "The Greatest Ever?"

• Early Excitement: The panel unanimously agrees the weekend offered some of the best Wild Card games in recent memory—until the last two matchups ([01:54]).

  "I thought the first four games were absolutely fantastic."
  — Steve McCollum, [02:07]

• Gambling Tales: Nash shares big wins with strategic in-game betting on the Bears ([02:41]). The group commiserates over betting heartbreaks, particularly how parlays always seem to miss by just one leg ([06:19]).

  "I am convinced parlay is Latin for you'll miss by one."
  — John Holmberg, [06:15]

• Insider Gambling Stat: Parlay bets make up 32-33% of Vegas profits vs. 8-9% for straight bets ([06:36]).

2. Analytics & Aggressive Play Calling: Blessing or Curse?

• Fourth Down Frenzy: Vigorous debate erupts over teams going for it on fourth down. Nash defends aggression, Holmberg argues for traditional field position tactics.

  "I think there's a beauty in punting. Fans hate it... But if you are a fan of football, you understand flipping the field."
  — John Holmberg, [09:41] "You guys might have female chromosomes. You're not really manly... Hunting holes is not low T. It's smart football."
  — Dave Nash & John Holmberg, [13:28]

• Analytics Skepticism: The crew bemoans decisions they see as "analytics gone too far," suggesting it's ruining baseball and now football ([12:13]).
• Coach Firing Culture: The panel criticizes how quickly franchises now want results and fire coaches, contrasting with past legendary coaches’ slow starts ([15:32], [15:52]).

  "In my day, a coach that made it to the playoffs got three years grace."
  — Steve McCollum, [21:06]

3. Breaking News: Mike Tomlin Steps Down

• Live Reaction: The group reacts to Tomlin’s sudden retirement from the Steelers ([16:37]), speculates on the "mutual parting" nature, and laments how the hiring/firing cycle impacts team culture ([16:56]–[19:38]).

  “Tomlin just stepped down as a Steelers coach.”
  — John Holmberg, [16:37]

• Market Ripple Effect: Pittsburgh and Baltimore now both highly attractive jobs; Tomlin and Harbaugh potentially top free agent coaches ([20:45]).

  "This is like having a massive draft of quarterbacks. You can't miss bringing Tomlin here."
  — John Holmberg, [20:45]

• Hiring Taxes: Discussion on "team taxes," how bad franchises must overpay to attract top coaching talent ([21:06]).

4. The Changing Landscape of NFL Coaching

• Coaching Trees & Culture: The panel notes that despite Tomlin’s long tenure, he lacks a robust coaching tree, contrasting with cultures in places like New England ([25:34]).
• Culture Change vs. Schematics: Vrabel and other coaches praised for changing organizational cultures over just play-calling ([26:04]).
• Arizona’s Eternal Rebuild: Candid takes on the Cardinals’ need for a “culture change” and pessimism about top coaches wanting the job ([28:04], [28:15]).

5. College Football: Indiana’s Miracle Run & NIL Effects

• Indiana’s Unexpected Success: The group marvels over Indiana football's improbable national title appearance, with no five-star athletes and average player age of 23.5 due to transfers and extended college eligibility ([41:09]).

  “They were ranked number one in the country one time in the history of the program. One time.”
  — Steve McCollum, [41:43]

• Coaching Accolades: Indiana's coach praised for molding under-the-radar players into winners, exemplifying the value of “coachable” athletes ([42:09], [42:29]).
• NIL Fallout and Transfers: Talk of NIL-driven trades and the need for regulatory guardrails as the system becomes increasingly mercenary ([54:01]).

  “It’s going to ruin [college football] if something doesn’t give.”
  — Steve McCollum, [55:56]

6. Suns, Basketball, and Team Chemistry

• Suns’ Injury Struggles: Analysis of the Phoenix Suns integrating a key player back from injury, and whether shifting bench roles will impact their momentum ([56:13]-[57:28]).
• WNBA Labor Unrest: Sarcastic but pointed takedown of the WNBA’s threat to strike for higher pay—a discussion that links the league’s visibility and economic realities to recent surges in viewership thanks to Caitlin Clark ([58:31]-[63:14]).

  "Pay us a lot more. Could you imagine... your husband... and you have the nerve to come back and say, this isn't enough? That's essentially what this is."
  — John Holmberg, [59:29] “This league before Caitlin Clark... league was going under, about to fold... here comes Larry [Bird] and [Magic] Johnson... the rivalry made it!”
  — Steve McCollum, [61:07]

7. Finale: Five Minutes with "the Madman" (Dave Nash)

• Political Rant: Nash unleashes a conspiracy-tinged commentary on government fraud in Minnesota and local politics ([65:14]).
• Elon Musk & Free Speech: The crew pivots to the importance of Elon Musk buying Twitter for preserving public debate ([69:07]).

  “Without freedom of speech, there are no freedoms.”
  — Dave Nash, [69:35]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Parlay Pain

  "I am convinced parlay is Latin for you'll miss by one."
  — John Holmberg, [06:15]

• Fourth Down Machismo

  "You guys might have female chromosomes... Hunting holes is not low T. It's smart football."
  — Dave Nash & John Holmberg, [13:28]

• On Modern Firing Culture

  "Two years. You better see four wins, nine wins, and we're in the playoffs."
  — John Holmberg, [15:48]

• Tomlin's Legacy

  "If I'd have heard the same voice for 11 years, that gets old."
  — Steve McCollum, [18:09]

• Indiana's College Football Miracle

  “Find me a human being in August that said Indiana would win a... championship game.”
  — John Holmberg, [38:43]

• On NIL/Sports Business

  "It went crazy. All the way the other way."
  — Steve McCollum, [55:53]

• WNBA Strike Sarcasm

  “If [the WNBA] strike for a week, that’s half the season.”
  — John Holmberg, [58:34]

• Caitlin Clark’s Impact

  “This league before Caitlin Clark... league was going under, about to fold... here comes Larry and Magic, rivalry made!”
  — Steve McCollum, [61:07]

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Important Timestamps

• [02:07] – Recap of wild card games’ excitement
• [06:19] – Parlay misery stories and Vegas house edge stats
• [09:41] – Debate: Punting vs. aggressiveness (analytics)
• [13:28] – Machismo in play-calling
• [16:37] – Mike Tomlin’s resignation breaks live
• [20:45] – Tomlin’s potential landing spots, the Cardinals’ dilemma
• [41:09] – How Indiana built a winner without blue-chip recruits
• [54:01] – NIL/trade system in college sports
• [58:31] – WNBA strike mockery
• [61:07] – Caitlin Clark, Bird/Magic comparison
• [65:14] – Five Minutes with the Madman: Minnesota political intrigue
• [69:07] – Elon Musk’s Twitter buy, free speech

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Tone & Style

• Humorously combative, irreverent, and deeply knowledgeable
• Blend of nostalgic sports reminiscence and sharp, current analysis
• Quick tangents into politics and society, always with sports at the core

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For Listeners: Why This Episode Matters

Whether you missed the best football of the year, want to know the real context behind playoff coaching drama, or are curious about how college football’s NIL era is upending the sport, this episode delivers sharp insight and lively debate. Plus, you’ll hear experts react live to an NFL coaching bombshell, dissect team cultures in the valley, and even skewer the economics of professional women’s sports—all in trademark witty, sometimes bristling Sun Belt style.

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Transcript

[John Holmberg]

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[John Holmberg]

All right, and we're off and running, everybody. It's John Holmerg here from the wildly successful morning sickness on 98 KUPD. That's me. I am your humble host along with my guests. See how I'm doing it this week.

[Steve McCollum]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

See how I'm doing it this week. Dale Hell Astray is here. He is a three time world champion and he sits with us each and every week here on this show along with the angry fan.

[Dave Nash]

I'm a three time Mid American conference champion.

[John Holmberg]

Is that true?

[Dave Nash]

Yeah. We won the baseball. See, you're bringing this up now.

[John Holmberg]

What are we 20 weeks into this thing and we just now I've been asking you how to introduce you for the. For the whole entire time.

[Dave Nash]

He's three time super bowl champion, three time Mac champion.

[John Holmberg]

I'm three time nothing, man. I got nothing. I just got one job. Well, we'll change all that. This is the sports thing. A John Holmberg podcast. And we are off and running. Let's just get right to it, Dale. Let's get right to it.

[Steve McCollum]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

NFL football. Was this, as people are saying, the greatest weekend of wild card football in the history of football?

[Steve McCollum]

I think it was until the last two games.

[John Holmberg]

Well, let's not talk about those two. We'll get to that another time.

[Steve McCollum]

No, but again, it started with the College football Playoff. We went right into the NFL playoffs. I thought it was the first four games were Absolutely fantastic.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Steve McCollum]

You know, and you couldn't ask for anything more because how many times. Wild card weekend. Three of the fourth or four of the five are snoozers. And all that I thought was fantastic. Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Dave, did you have any takeaways as a Green Bay supporter?

[Dave Nash]

Yeah, a little disappointed, but I mean, it was great games. It was exciting. Listen, I made a boatload of money.

[John Holmberg]

Did you?

[Dave Nash]

Betting on Chicago. Because I knew the way things go. The way things are going. No, I'm. I'm making in. In game bets. And every time Chicago fell down, you know, another score, another score, I'm thinking they're coming back.

[John Holmberg]

You went and bought another few points.

[Dave Nash]

I bought. Yeah. I mean, at one time I was getting 17 and a half. 17 and a half.

[John Holmberg]

Whenever the score that's covering even money,

[Dave Nash]

was it 21 3, 21 3, 21 3. At that point, you could get the Bears plus 17 and a half. It's free money that.

[John Holmberg]

But it's free match money now. Now, listen, because it's not crazy.

[Steve McCollum]

There.

[John Holmberg]

There may be a plus 110 on that.

[Dave Nash]

No, generally you have to put up maybe 120, 130 bucks to make. Win 100. Yeah, but that's free money now.

[John Holmberg]

It's 100 bucks.

[Dave Nash]

Now, honestly, if. If Chicago would have went on to win or Green Bay, if would have went on to win, like 44 to 3. Yeah, that would have been a.

[John Holmberg]

That would have been nervous when you kept diving in.

[Dave Nash]

I was not nervous.

[John Holmberg]

At halftime, 21 3, you're like, Bear's going to cover this. Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

I didn't think they would win, but I actually, my first bet after Green Bay scored, I got Green Bay. I got the Bears at plus three and a half. And I thought, you know, this will be a field goal game. And I. But every time Green Bay scored, I'm like, oh, I'm taking Chicago. They're. They're going to. They're going to come back.

[John Holmberg]

Do you know what was weird? One, the worst thing I've ever done on a game like that, where I said, I just think I know. Remember that Colts Vikings game a couple years ago where I was at the Colts? Yeah. The Colts jumped him like 31 3. Or it was vice versa.

[Dave Nash]

Oh, it was the greatest. One of the biggest comebacks ever.

[John Holmberg]

And I went to place a bet. I'm like, something's weird about. Just my brain just said something's weird. Take it. And I bet that the game that the. It would be. It would be the Colts, if I remember Right. Would win it in regulation.

[Dave Nash]

Oh, my God.

[John Holmberg]

It went to overtime. And I didn't know that I had bet in regulation. It was three, eight hundred dollars. And I'm like, I got it. I can't believe this just happened. Like, this is. They're gonna win this thing. They win it in overtime. I'm celebrating and I lose.

[Steve McCollum]

And it.

[John Holmberg]

Because I had specifically said in regulation I didn't win the bet. I was, I was, I was through the roof. And then I was just done. So I hate those feelings that you're talking about. Like, I think I've got this. And you go to the 17 points because I. I am convinced I. That gambling is rigged. But not for everyone else. Just me. They know what I've done. George Kittle on Sunday, I had Christian McCaffrey, Dallas Goddard, George Kittle to score touchdowns. Goddard had to. McCaffrey had two. Kittle goes out injured. And he seemed happy about it. Like they whispered in his ear. Holmberg knows. I'm like, okay. And I got bounced on that.

[Steve McCollum]

Every time I did something that I don't ever do. I don't ever do parlay. Yeah. And I was sitting there on Saturday watching football and looking at the San Francis and saw the over under and it's be windy and. And so I, I said took. Took the under. And I'm like, let's see what else is there? Christian McCaffrey, 50 yards. Beautiful. A touchdown for McCaffrey. A passing touchdown for Purdy. I ended up doing like five legs. Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Did you get it? What? What? Missed.

[Steve McCollum]

And the thing on. On McCaffrey's rushing yards. It started off at 60 yards.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Steve McCollum]

And I knocked it down to 50.

[John Holmberg]

Reasonable. Oh, no.

[Steve McCollum]

48 yards. It's almost like they looked at me through the screen. Look at me through the screen. That's all you get.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Steve McCollum]

You get this close. And then two yards.

[John Holmberg]

I have. I am convinced parlay is Latin for you'll miss by one. And I have had 14 leg lottery tickets that I've built that have missed by one. And it is. It's crushing.

[Steve McCollum]

The reason, because we have a gamble on our other show, the main event.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Steve McCollum]

Sweet Lou. And he talks about Vegas. Uncle Lou. Sweet Uncle Lou. Their parlays in Vegas. Yeah. They make 32%, 33% of their money. They only make 8 or 9% on single straight bets. That's why everything that you see, whether it's DraftKings or MGM. Parlay, parlay, parlay, parlay.

[John Holmberg]

I had one with the suns that was $22,000 for a $100 bet. And it was 15 legs, and I hit nine of them in the first half. Wow. And one of them, the reason it was so high was that I had Crowder to hit the first shot of the game, and he did. And I'm like, that's the toughest one, right? And we got that. So I added all the others. Devin Booker needed six rebounds. He has five. At the end of the game, the ball bounces off the rim, starts to go towards the side. He just throws his hands up and lets it go out of bounds. And my friend's sitting next to me, and I'm just like, you need to step away because you're the closest thing to me. And it's about to get a hole put in it. If you were a wall, I'd have already done it. Just give me the grace that I'm being kind enough to warn you that things are about to fly off of me into you. It was horrible. So I'm glad you.

[Dave Nash]

I'm glad you're one day as a lifetime gambler. I have so many stories like that I'm not even gonna bore you with.

[John Holmberg]

No, it's. We all have them, and that's the worst thing. And we used to have them. Oh, I was in Vegas once. I used to do this, this, and this. No, now it's in our hands. We're all doing it. They're making a killing off of us, and it's still fun.

[Steve McCollum]

And real quick, the one. The one thing that I will say. I know we're talking sons at the end if we get to them with all the other stuff going on, but I've never felt more confident. I took the suns and over. 32 and a half. Yeah, over, over. Their win total was 32 and a

[John Holmberg]

half in the game.

[Steve McCollum]

No, no, no. Going into the season.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, they've got this.

[Steve McCollum]

Unless your lane blows up, please, let's

[John Holmberg]

just give them five wins for that. Just as decent people. Going back to the weekend of football, though. You watch that? We watched the. Did the Bears win or did the packers collapse?

[Dave Nash]

Bears one.

[John Holmberg]

Bears won.

[Dave Nash]

I like, man, listen, here's one point I want to make, and I've talked about it before, and it's annoying all hell to me when people say, oh, you know, kick the field goal or they're going for it on fourth down. Listen, in football today. Oh, in football today, offense is king if you can't get a yard or two. I mean, when they're going forward on six. Fourth and sixth, fourth and seven. It's a little much. But you know what? If you can't, it's you put your foot on the gas.

[John Holmberg]

Now as an offense, totally disagree. Dan Campbell is not in the playoffs because he keeps his foot on the gas too much. There is so much, so much missing from the game because guys are going for it on fourth down and screwing up the game. I think there is a beauty in punting. Fans hate it. They do. Fans hate it.

[Dave Nash]

And this is as they should know,

[John Holmberg]

then they should hate it. But if you are a fan of football, you understand flipping the field. You get that. You give a team the ball just because analytics say you should get that.

[Dave Nash]

I listen. It depends on the game. Depends on the game last, last night, Pittsburgh and Houston take the field goal, take the field goal, punt the ball. But I'd say at least 80% of the time teams are going up and down the field.

[John Holmberg]

I'm telling you right now that I couldn't disagree with that more. I had this argument with somebody the other day. Everybody says offense is king. Yeah, look who's like there are offenses that can, can't move the ball in the playoffs, right? Denver can barely move the ball. The Texans offense is nothing impressive.

[Dave Nash]

Whether you can move it or not wins. Whether you can move it or not, you've got to keep the ball and you got to score. Whether it's close game, not high scoring game, low scoring game, you have the opportunity to score and win, play to win the game, said Herm Edwards.

[John Holmberg]

And where's he not coaching? Here's the thing that's fun about that. There's the in the super bowl now you're probably going to have the Eagles as a team that you, you looked at not, not, not going in. But like you last year's super bowl they won because they're a defensive team, right? Period. End of story. You go into looking at the Rams, they're only there because of their defense. Because if without it they can't outscore

[Dave Nash]

everybody, they only have the MVP and their quarterback.

[John Holmberg]

Their offense is really good, but they're not winning with just offense. My point is you can score 33 points but without a stout defense, you're not in the playoffs anymore.

[Steve McCollum]

No leading scoring team in the national football without a question.

[John Holmberg]

And so everybody keeps saying, oh, offense rules today. Offense, defense is ruling it more than it ever has because you've got teams that have no offense that are taking advantage and winning games like, like Denver did this year because dipstick coaches are going for it on 4th and 3 on the 10 and given the ball back instead of taking almost a guaranteed three points.

[Dave Nash]

Ben shot three. Ben Johnson, what do you think? Ben Johnson went for it on fourth down in the first half like 20 times. Never made it. They still won.

[John Holmberg]

They won because the collapsed originally. Back to my question.

[Dave Nash]

That was an offense that started taking over and momentum changed.

[John Holmberg]

The Patriots, the Texans, the Broncos and the Bills are the worst defense in the bunch. Are now in the AFC and three offenses that I kind of only trust one.

[Steve McCollum]

Which one?

[John Holmberg]

I like the. Of the three with the defenses, the Bills are obviously Josh Allen.

[Steve McCollum]

Well, they're a one person.

[John Holmberg]

They're a one person team. I kind of dismiss them. I don't see defense travel still. These coaches are all anal. It ruined baseball and it's going to wreck football. These fourth down calls are. I love. I'm going to say it. Punting Dale. You're welcome. I love a team that says put it on my.

[Dave Nash]

Because he's. That was his job.

[John Holmberg]

I know but that's.

[Steve McCollum]

But that's.

[John Holmberg]

Look, it was. There's a beauty in that. When you're on the 40 and you give the ball back on these guys can kick 60 yard field goals. You're getting three points off of eight yards. Now if you do that dumb. And I understand going forward occasionally they're going for it way too much. They're giving up three points to get in the modern game.

[Dave Nash]

See how fast a team can go down the field in less than a minute. If you punt it's 40 yard. You can. You can pick up 40 yards in 15 seconds.

[John Holmberg]

Can you see that the teams left in the AFC are all teams that nobody's going down the field in less than a minute.

[Dave Nash]

That makes even more sense that when you're playing against that defense you better score when you have the opportunity.

[John Holmberg]

But if you're down inside the 10, you take the points.

[Steve McCollum]

Yes. Very often. But especially in the playoffs. Yeah, you take the point.

[Dave Nash]

I would just say you guys might have female chromosomes. You're not really manly. There's no kind of testosterone. Listen that you need to come to Summit Male Medical Center. We can help you out with testosterone. Actually become manly. Actually play to win. Say, hey, our offense is not playing to lose.

[Steve McCollum]

No.

[Dave Nash]

Hunting

[John Holmberg]

holes is not low t. Hey, it's smart football. And you know what? The dumbest decisions I've ever made in my life were based on my high testosterone. Usually when the lower testosterone.

[Dave Nash]

Not on a football field.

[John Holmberg]

More logical. I'm not on the football field.

[Dave Nash]

Well, that's right. Thank God.

[John Holmberg]

If I'M you'd be a terrible coach. No, I'd be a great coach. We'd have. We'd have 12 points.

[Dave Nash]

Hey, we're afraid something bad might happen. Let's just pun away right now. Let's put on first down.

[Steve McCollum]

There's a reason why this guy was three time MidAmerican champion. And that's as far as they went.

[John Holmberg]

Was unafraid to beat Appalachian Junior State College. I. I hate how often people go for it on fourth now.

[Steve McCollum]

Now fourth and one on. On your 40 yard line going maybe 45. Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Not in last night. Not in. The Steelers and Texans again. Punt that game by game. Yeah. Yep.

[Dave Nash]

No.

[Steve McCollum]

Hey, if it's 4138 and beginning of the fourth quarter. Yeah. We. You gotta score.

[John Holmberg]

Denver plays close games. If you're doing that against Denver, you're doing them a favor. Even if you get it.

[Steve McCollum]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

And then you don't get your, you know, you don't get your points later, you go for it. If you get stuck on one of those fourth down risks and you lose that game by three points, everybody's going to question this. And that's why. And gets to my next thing that's playing afraid. No, it's not. That's why coaches get fired in the playoffs. Now that's absurd. I mean Mike Tomlin's track record with the Steelers is starting to get to the point where you're a little Marvin Lewis and it's like maybe, maybe it's time. This is the hump we can't get over. But could you imagine firing Marv Levy in today's day and age? There'd be discussions of Marv Levy's got

[Steve McCollum]

to go in today's day. And I've often said this. You have never heard of Tom Landry. You never heard of Chuck Noll. You never heard of Vince Lombardi. You never heard of any of these guys because they, they struggled at the beginning mightily. And now you get two years.

[John Holmberg]

Two years. You better. You better see four wins. Nine wins and we're in the playoffs.

[Steve McCollum]

And one interesting stat. Since 2000, no coach. Yeah. Has entered his fourth season with the same team as that coach and still had a job. Yeah. So it means you have to make the playoffs in your first three seasons.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Steve McCollum]

Which is. That's crazy.

[John Holmberg]

And you're taking over usually garbage.

[Steve McCollum]

A bad team.

[John Holmberg]

And you're taking over with the pressure now that I'm going to take garbage. Probably have a high pick and whatever we pick and probably not plays immediately

[Steve McCollum]

and probably Not a quarterback.

[John Holmberg]

No. And like the Raiders, they're going to hire a coach. They're going to get Mendoza from Indiana and that dude's got three years to work with a guy who's maybe pro caliber. But we're going to throw them in there and see, and it's going to crush him.

[Steve McCollum]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

What I do, I'm getting yelled at by something here.

[Dave Nash]

So let me tell you.

[John Holmberg]

So Tomlin just stepped down. I just got the text. Is that real? As we're on, Mike Tomlin has just stepped away. We'll see you, folks. Black Jesus walking away from me while I'm doing this, Black Jesus is leaving. Tomlin just stepped down as a Steelers coach.

[Dave Nash]

Do you think they were trying to lose that last game between the Steelers and Ravens so both coach coaches could get the hell out of their situations?

[John Holmberg]

After the Ravens game, I watched the post game with Mike Tomlin and I said to the guys I watch with because we watch right after, I said, he's been crying. I watched every post game that guy's ever done and I said, he's been crying. I said, something's going on. I didn't see this immediacy, but I said, something's going on. He told them this is over.

[Steve McCollum]

Isn't that. Isn't that the way, though, you do it when you're the Steelers and you're Tomlin, Whether they said step down or whether he said, I've had enough, if

[John Holmberg]

we don't get over. I could imagine that an Art Rooney who has a reputation of being the Nepo baby, you know, he doesn't. Everybody in Pittsburgh. He does. He's not his old man. He's not his grandpa. He's not. He doesn't have the courage to fire Mike Tomlin because people in Pittsburgh have been screaming that for a couple years. He probably said something to the effect of Mike, you know, if we don't get through this.

[Steve McCollum]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

If this ends the same way, it's not enough.

[Steve McCollum]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

And Mike's. And we've got to move on again.

[Steve McCollum]

How long has he been there? Eight.

[John Holmberg]

19 years.

[Steve McCollum]

19 years.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Steve McCollum]

That's a long run. And again, I don't care what your voice is as a player. I was around the Cowboys for 11 years and if I'd have heard the same voice for 11 years, that gets old.

[John Holmberg]

It gets old.

[Steve McCollum]

I don't care how gregarious he could be, how knowledgeable. Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

But there's a certain thing where at this point they had to go in agreeing, saying, Mike, if this goes wrong and we get bounced in the first round and it's a home game and we don't. And the way they went out, there had to be an agreement going. So we're not going to fire you. You've been too valuable. But do us this favor. And he's got two years on his contract, so I don't know if there's going to be an out clause. When you step away, it'll be.

[Steve McCollum]

I bet you as soon as that. It's as soon as that came out. It is on Twitter. As soon as that came out. NBC, Fox, cbs, espn.

[John Holmberg]

Rumor had it he had a job offer before. Yeah, like he's got it in his

[Steve McCollum]

back pocket and hey, take a year off.

[John Holmberg]

You know what? Do it. Coward did just leave.

[Steve McCollum]

See if you again. Well, you're going to still make good money.

[Dave Nash]

Just leave. Hey, leave your radio show. It's whatever.

[John Holmberg]

I had that money and I have that kind of pressure on you.

[Dave Nash]

You're fine.

[John Holmberg]

I'm doing right. But I might walk away. I'm not elon yet.

[Dave Nash]

You're. No, you're not.

[John Holmberg]

But I.

[Dave Nash]

Look, you're fine.

[John Holmberg]

The walk away money is tempting all the time, but if you're just like, look, what, what am I putting myself through this for if I don't have that and, and I can walk away. Why don't I just analyze these games and be great at something else? Bill Cower, everybody said, oh, he's going to coach again. He's going to coach again. He's like, no, why would I go back to that?

[Steve McCollum]

You know what? You. And you said this to me at some point. I don't know where we were, where you said, bill Cower looks so much better, healthier now than he did the tail end of his coaching career.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, he, he, he is.

[Steve McCollum]

And he's 10 years, 10 years older, but looks better.

[John Holmberg]

He's almost 70. And he's like, you find out.

[Steve McCollum]

You find out. Hey, I fly into New York on Friday. I hang out for the weekend.

[John Holmberg]

He had. Remember he did that music video with that girl he was dating for a little bit and it was like, he's in makeup and he's like, you've never seen Bill Cower have fun before. Like, everything was football. So, wow, that Tomlin news is huge. And we were, you know, in the midst of saying, so Lafleur at Green Bay, Harbaugh, I mean, but then you twist it and say, let's say Tomlin wants to be a coach somewhere. You've got Harbaugh, Tomlin, possibly Lafleur although they are saying he's going to renew in Green Bay. The coaching candidates that are floating around for a team like, oh, I don't know, the Cardinals are, this is the year to strike. This is. This is like having a massive draft of quarterbacks. Like, you can't miss bringing Tomlin here. You've got to pay him. So I can't imagine the amount of money a bad franchise would have to give Mike.

[Steve McCollum]

Well, you have to pay a tax. If you're. There's on the car. You need to understand that unless you're going to hire another Jonathan Gannon.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Steve McCollum]

You're going to have to pay a tax. And people go, well, why do you have to pay more here? Because of who you are.

[John Holmberg]

They deliver more.

[Steve McCollum]

Now, hopefully you hire the right guy and in five years now you don't have to pay a tax, but you have to right now.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, that's in your day. Dale, back playing in the 90s. A coach that made it to the playoffs, got three years grace.

[Steve McCollum]

Totally right.

[John Holmberg]

You couldn't fall apart a year later, but you could hiccup a year later. Like Dan Campbell's with Detroit and they're saying Dan Campbell got to fire all his coordinators. They haven't even been there. It used to take a couple years. Now it's like if your coordinators, like they lost Ben Johnson, they lost Glenn. Those guys are both gone. And they're like the new coordinators were. Nope, they're all out. They're saying Matt LaFleur can't call games anymore. Like that was the one thing they said. The packers brass will probably say we're stripping play calling duties. I find this absurd.

[Steve McCollum]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

And again, that goes back to punting again. They're so knee jerk and crazy about an analytic thing. Instead of like what Aaron Rodgers said last night. He said, I think it's absurd. You've got to have coaches like that on the hot seat.

[Steve McCollum]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

You've got a guy who created the culture, is the culture and you know, the players have to play better. Cam Hayward said the same thing, but I think they knew that's huge to have that happen to me.

[Steve McCollum]

No.

[John Holmberg]

Well, I love Mike Tomlin and I for years have defended. What are we going to get in his place if it's. It's leaving a job without another job. You better have a life raft. You better have a plan in place of where you're going.

[Dave Nash]

Todd Haley.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, man, don't. I will. I'm going to run and strangle you. How about John Harbaugh well, that's what I thought. The Harbaugh Tomlin switch would be one of the greatest, one of the greatest plays in NFL soap opera history. If any. If anything, Goodell and the gang are like, oh, if we could arrange that off Tomlin in a raven's hat, would you like Harbaugh? I think. I think he's a good coach. I think he's. I think. I don't think I could have him as a stinger coach. I don't think I could.

[Steve McCollum]

He probably bring Jackson in.

[John Holmberg]

It's that rule that we've talked about when your friend has been with a girl and you're like, I can't. Really. That's where I feel about. I don't think that's a thing.

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[John Holmberg]

I like Jesse Mentor. I like this. But I'm blown away at these coaches that, you know, they're still saying that about Sean McDermott. He won his playoff game and they're like, well, he better win the next one. This is the Bills. Like, we're talking super bowl or bust for some of these coaches.

[Steve McCollum]

You know, Kansas City's not in, so of course you're supposed to win if you're.

[John Holmberg]

Buffalo won the super bowl last year, their division again. They play a game that could have gone either way with San Francisco, right? They lose. And losing at home hurts so much. They're like, maybe he should go. Maybe Nick's not right. And I'm like, how are you saying this?

[Steve McCollum]

It's. The immediacy is so ridiculous. But then you see like, even Michael Bidwell said, you get. Chicago gets the new coach.

[John Holmberg]

Right. But again, Chicago had $100 million in free agency.

[Steve McCollum]

No, I know, I understand, but.

[John Holmberg]

And a quarterback that probably was pretty

[Steve McCollum]

good, but they got.

[Dave Nash]

They got.

[Steve McCollum]

But they got the right guys in there. Yeah. Fable goes to New England. They won four games last year, but

[John Holmberg]

it's another one that they had 130 million in free.

[Steve McCollum]

Who you.

[John Holmberg]

Your GM, I think, is more important to seeing your coach and building the team and your coordinators. I think coaches are great for organizing, for speech giving and keeping everybody in line. I think that's what Tomlin was great at. He never put coordinators that threatened his job under him. And that's what there's. Again, I've said this about Mike Tomlin. As much as I want to defend him, he has no coaching tree in 19 years. There are no coaches that came up from his system.

[Steve McCollum]

And that's crazy. 19 years of a successful coach, and

[John Holmberg]

everybody that's on his staff now comes from somewhere else.

[Steve McCollum]

But you. But you look at. Again, it's just in my mind. You look at New England, you look at Chicago. Chicago. The new coach comes in, changes the culture.

[John Holmberg]

Yep.

[Steve McCollum]

And he's calling the plays offensively.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Steve McCollum]

Vrabel goes to New England, he changes the culture. He's not calling the offense or defense. No. But he's. He's changed the culture. So you can do it in more than one way.

[John Holmberg]

I think the. The culture change came with Vrabel because obviously, tied to the old one, but also the GM did an amazing job not overspending on anybody going and getting guys like, you know, digs and like, you. You get some people that you're like, that was a reach, but it fits perfectly. That whole linebacking course splain. Like, all these dudes are kind of

[Steve McCollum]

like, yeah, they're good, but all together.

[John Holmberg]

But all together, they're a unit that will follow right in Variable's footsteps. That team. I don't think they're good enough to win at all, but they're good enough to knock some things around. And they're.

[Steve McCollum]

They're.

[John Holmberg]

They're a weird one, man.

[Steve McCollum]

Well, they're good enough to be Houston this week.

[John Holmberg]

We'll see. Because there's.

[Steve McCollum]

They are good enough.

[John Holmberg]

DeMarco was the one who came down there and changed things. I mean, he went down to Houston and made some things happen. I look at. I look at this, though. Which of the coaches that are unfairly on the hot seat do you think will go?

[Steve McCollum]

If you.

[John Holmberg]

If you Get. Yeah. If you get the Eagles guy. Is it. You think. You think they both stay?

[Dave Nash]

Yes. I mean, they have to.

[John Holmberg]

I don't. They don't have to. Philly especially is like barking at, trying to get rid of.

[Steve McCollum]

Here's my other thing. I've never understood the fact that fire coach to fire coach.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Steve McCollum]

Do you have a plan that's. Is there somebody you have in mind?

[Dave Nash]

Well, now they got Harbaugh and Tomlinson,

[John Holmberg]

and there are a few. Like Brian Flores is still kind of lurking as a guy who deserves a shot at being a head coach.

[Steve McCollum]

Well, the guy.

[John Holmberg]

I mean, we've talked about that.

[Steve McCollum]

The guy in San Francisco. Oh, yeah.

[John Holmberg]

I mean, there's. There's. There's seven or eight candidates that can be that culture change. But will the culture change? Because like we've talked about with Arizona, there is a cultural cancer here, called the owners.

[Steve McCollum]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Well, the Browns have the same problem. You can put. The Browns had a good coach, Stefanski. He's still floating around out there.

[Dave Nash]

I. I said. I said when the Cardinals were getting rid of Gannon, they need a culture change. And, and to me, it would only be the two options. Gruden or Jordan Salah.

[John Holmberg]

Well, I don't mind Salah, but now, I mean, now if you're willing to open the vault. I mean, Tomlin and Harbaugh are both. I don't think. I don't think they'd take the job.

[Dave Nash]

No, I don't think so either.

[John Holmberg]

I don't think there's a reason for them to want that. But, man, that's. That is.

[Steve McCollum]

Well, tell me this. Do you think that Tomlin coaches this year?

[John Holmberg]

Well, he's still got a bet right now. The Steelers had to. They had to exercise his option on March 1st for his next two years, I think.

[Steve McCollum]

Okay.

[John Holmberg]

Or lame duck him this next year. So this. Yeah, as. As we're kind of talking through, finding out as we go, there's definitely a. This. There was a chat a couple weeks ago, right. You get in the playoffs, great. Win the game, and we'll talk about next year. If not, let's just. Let's just clip this early, right?

[Steve McCollum]

Man, I think he's in TV next

[John Holmberg]

year with the team, with the year. It depends on how this. The step away goes. If he steps away and doesn't take the, you know, the guarantees or anything like that, he's free to go coach again, right. I would imagine he takes a year off, but again, he's 53, super viable. You don't want to get stuck in that pattern of like stepping away from it. Look how much the game's changed in those 19 years he coached.

[Steve McCollum]

Did you hear that Jason Garrett got interviewed for a job?

[John Holmberg]

Well, that's the Rooney rule. You have to interview. A redhead has to be now represented. Man, this is, yeah, it's shocking news. But at the same time now, you know what is kind of exciting still is that he screwed John Harbaugh again because the market was Harbaugh's until now. And now there's a money drop because it's like, well, without you we'll go his. So he can't be as demanding as the main guy. But man, oh man, I don't know. I don't want to see Mike in another hat.

[Dave Nash]

What job do you think is more attractive, Pittsburgh or Baltimore?

[John Holmberg]

Have you been to Baltimore?

[Steve McCollum]

I'm team wise in the summertime.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, it smells like brackish water.

[Dave Nash]

You have a two time exactly. Nf, NFL MVP quarterback and aging okay.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

All right, so your answer is Pittsburgh, I guess.

[John Holmberg]

What's the more attractive job from the roster for Baltimore? Yes, but you have a defense that you've got to rebuild. So I'm looking at Baltimore. I would go.

[Dave Nash]

Don't you have to do the same thing in Pittsburgh?

[John Holmberg]

Oh yeah, well, Pittsburgh's got a full like potential rebuild now. I mean they're, they're, they've got, I

[Dave Nash]

mean they're making a boatload of money and they, they give up a ton of yards.

[John Holmberg]

Well, yeah, well that's the two years in a row the highest paid defense in football. And that's just not.

[Steve McCollum]

No, it doesn't represent, it isn't showing.

[John Holmberg]

And you're, you know, you're piecemealing guys. You're, you're, you're going and getting Duggar in the middle of the year. The team that they put on the field in September wasn't even close to the one in the end of December and it was the highest paid defense in September and they had to replace guys. So yeah, Pittsburgh on the roster is the, is the lesser of the two

[Dave Nash]

jobs with no quarterback.

[John Holmberg]

Right. And who knows?

[Dave Nash]

I mean, I don't mind Rudolph.

[John Holmberg]

No, he's gone. Kill him. He's out.

[Dave Nash]

He's out.

[John Holmberg]

I mind Rudolph quite a bit.

[Dave Nash]

You do?

[John Holmberg]

I've seen statues with better mobility and better footwork.

[Dave Nash]

All right.

[John Holmberg]

Than Mason Rudolph.

[Dave Nash]

Where are you gonna go get a quarterback?

[John Holmberg]

Will Howard would move up to the two and you're gonna free it.

[Steve McCollum]

Yeah, you will.

[John Holmberg]

No, he's all right. But you would, he's not a starter, but.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

You get rid of the 10 million you're paying Mason Rudolph, you put will it too.

[Steve McCollum]

10 million.

[John Holmberg]

I know. And then you go get a. You know.

[Dave Nash]

But. Well, they have to pay him in case Rogers didn't come, right? Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

They had him first. That was the only quarterback on the roster. First thing, he and Skyler Thompson. And as we've discussed, no man ever wants to trust the future of something physical to a man named Skyler.

[Dave Nash]

Skyler. No doubt about it. 100.

[John Holmberg]

There's an old comedian's name, the, the, the Smash brothers who said if you name your kid Skyler, you guarantee he won't have grandkids because there's never been a grandpa Skyler ever. You know, I got a friend.

[Dave Nash]

I got a friend Skyler.

[John Holmberg]

Not gonna be grandfather. Not gonna be a grandfather.

[Dave Nash]

Not a grandfather.

[John Holmberg]

Never gonna be a grandfather.

[Dave Nash]

Never gonna be a grandfather.

[John Holmberg]

Never ever gonna be a grandfather.

[Dave Nash]

I'm gonna.

[John Holmberg]

I'm gonna tell him that grandpa Skylers do not exist.

[Dave Nash]

Can I get a tape of this show so I can send it to him?

[John Holmberg]

Well, yeah, I think you can pick it up on the Internet somewhere. You can do that yourself. As far as coaching goes, now that that has opened up, I still, I find that fascinating that it was the next day. I mean we're not even 12 hours removed from the end of the game,

[Steve McCollum]

so we're talking about Cardinals. Who do you want to see go to Pittsburgh?

[John Holmberg]

Well, I love Jesse minter, the, the D.C. in San Diego. I think Salah would be an amazing fit in Pittsburgh and that, that negates a rebuild. If you can get a defensive mind like Salah and have him pop in there, you probably get Hayward for one more year.

[Steve McCollum]

You've got a group of.

[Dave Nash]

You'll have a good, a good defense, no offense. Games will be three nothing final. You'll have 20 punts a game.

[John Holmberg]

You're going to.

[Dave Nash]

I am.

[John Holmberg]

Look, baseball fan, you understand that a pitcher stool is better than a home run derby, but no. Yes. You know, I don't you appreciate a 2:1.

[Dave Nash]

No, I don't.

[John Holmberg]

Two hour game.

[Dave Nash]

No, I don't.

[John Holmberg]

Where the starters go nine innings and throw 88 pitches each. You, you admired Greg Maddox throwing an hour and 59 minute baseball.

[Dave Nash]

You know, actually my favorite person to watch play baseball was Nolan Ryan.

[John Holmberg]

He's amazing because he walked everyone and struck.

[Dave Nash]

I didn't, I didn't really want to face him.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, no, it wouldn't be.

[Dave Nash]

It wouldn't be a thing I want, but I enjoyed watching that, but, no, I don't want to watch him.

[John Holmberg]

Beauty in a 13:10 slog in football, so long as it's not sloppy. But the defense, like last night, I

[Dave Nash]

watched Houston, you guys were complaining about last night. It's the same thing.

[John Holmberg]

I tip my cap to Houston going, you know what? That's what football's supposed to look like. On the defensive end, they just dominated. It wasn't that the Steelers were sloppy and messy. They weren't. They couldn't move the ball. No, they were stopped. They were. They were running into.

[Steve McCollum]

I think there was some questionable play call.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, tons of that. And the good news is Arthur Smith's gone. Mike's gone. That whole cruise out. Terrell Austin's gone. So for me, as a Steeler fan, there's a good news on that.

[Steve McCollum]

It's good news.

[John Holmberg]

It's good news there because we do get a fresh start, fresh voice, all that other stuff. Baltimore is going to have that same thing. That whole division has one coach, and they weren't sure that guy was staying. Zach Taylor and Cincy. But the Browns, Steelers and Ravens will all have new coaches next year.

[Dave Nash]

Do you think.

[Steve McCollum]

How about you just flip them around?

[John Holmberg]

I take Stefanski. I think he's. I think he's a good coach. I don't. I don't think he's great, but I think he's a good coach. I mean, he made some. He made a little magic in Cleveland for a second.

[Steve McCollum]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

Till they ruined it.

[Steve McCollum]

Yeah. You. You can't. But you can't have success in, In Cleveland.

[John Holmberg]

No.

[Steve McCollum]

The Jets.

[John Holmberg]

Arizona.

[Steve McCollum]

In Arizona.

[John Holmberg]

Can't do it. If you do have success there, you should be bronze.

[Steve McCollum]

Yes. There should be a statue immediately of Bruce Arians.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, absolutely. Bruce Arians. And to a degree, Kevin or Ken Wisenheim should have, like, he went to the super bowl and it was. I know it was Kurt Warner.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah, it was. And he. And he. And he fought Kern Warner at every. Every turn.

[Steve McCollum]

He wanted Matt Leiner in there so bad.

[John Holmberg]

And there is.

[Dave Nash]

There is an aspect he won despite of himself.

[Steve McCollum]

The.

[John Holmberg]

The idea that the players always say, well, we got to play better. Cam Hayward said last night, you can say the, The. We have to play better. And when you start looking around at stuff, I go back to Troy Palomalu. Dick LeBeau was solved. He's a legend. He was solved in 2003 with the, the. The 3, 4 blitz scheme that all of a sudden Rich. Yeah, it was Rich Gannon for the Raiders. Week two spreads out five receivers, and they couldn't do a thing about it.

[Steve McCollum]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

Because the pressure wasn't coming fast enough. And then you had to break out your two outside linebackers. The Patriots did it the next week and the next thing you know is like, it's solved. They. They go 6 and 10. Everybody's like, Ah, this is not going to work anymore. They draft a guy named Troy Palomalu who didn't fit any defense whatsoever. It was just Troy go do something. And Ryan Clark, luckily was a smart safety behind him that never made that mistake. And suddenly Dick LeBeau wasn't solved anymore because there was this rogue thing running around his defense. Players save coaches as much as coaches save teams. I think you have to have that right super moment like that guy. And on the Cowboys, it was probably Troy. As much as Michael would want it to be him or Emmett would want to the line, without Troy's brain connecting to the coach, none of that matters.

[Steve McCollum]

Well, you'd say that, but then if Troy was sitting right here, he would say, we're not winning the super bowl without Charles Haley.

[John Holmberg]

And there's. Well on the defense. He was the wild card too, because that was just that weird. Just unicorn.

[Steve McCollum]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

Of a player that you're like, we can. Nobody can do anything about him around.

[Steve McCollum]

You couldn't block him. But it is when you talk about, especially on the defensive side of the ball, you get that one special guy.

[John Holmberg]

He makes a legend out of a coach. That. That was again, I go back to Dick LeBeau who I love. He was done and got another seven years because Troy Palomalu got there and they plugged in.

[Dave Nash]

And you're making it sound like he saved. Hey, good coaches, good coaches take their players and take their strengths and coach around those.

[John Holmberg]

Like you said with Wizen Hunt fighting Warner.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

LeBeau fought Troy all the time. As far as, like, I know you're doing this instant, you've got to be where you're supposed to be. But he would make the play before it would break and it showed when his. When he got older and he was still trying to do the instincts, but he was a step behind and the play would beat him. And he's like, ah, that Troy would have had that. That used to be the old Troy. Yeah, he was and Ed re the same thing. He shut an entire part of the field off. Dion, these guys were unicorns that made coaches head coaches somewhere else.

[Steve McCollum]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

And changed games completely. So I love the idea of a new coach or a new thing coming in and changing everything, but you have to have the horses you can't do this, dudes. Nobody's coming to Arizona and just going, oh, I've got. I've got what I need and I'm a great coach. Watch this, right? They might respond a little better because there is truth. The idea that a coach can let a team can just quit on.

[Steve McCollum]

Right? But man.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. All right, well, that just. My whole day's changed, boys. I'm going to do a little kung fu walk around today. Just wandering off into the desert.

[Steve McCollum]

But you're not. But you're not sad.

[John Holmberg]

I mean, you got 19 great years out of Super Bowl. You got one win and, you know, a great appearance. You got beat by a better team.

[Dave Nash]

Can't wait for Pittsburgh to hire Mark Tressman. Be great.

[John Holmberg]

Good Lord, what's wrong with you?

[Steve McCollum]

You think we're going to dip into

[John Holmberg]

Canada with all this going on?

[Steve McCollum]

Hey, John. Hey, Jonathan Gannon's out there.

[John Holmberg]

Hey, I know. And he can stay out there. He might be a coordinator somewhere, I'll give him that. Let's talk a little bit beyond that about this college situation. Now. Find me a human being in August that said Indiana would win a. Find me a human being in Indiana.

[Dave Nash]

No, wait.

[John Holmberg]

Find me a human being on Indiana that said they were going to be in the championship game.

[Dave Nash]

Well, they did have a great year last year.

[John Holmberg]

Find me one.

[Dave Nash]

I know.

[John Holmberg]

No person gambling that put them with a reasonable number.

[Steve McCollum]

I wonder where they could have got them.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, my God.

[Dave Nash]

Actually, in the middle of the year.

[John Holmberg]

Middle of the year, I was looking at it.

[Dave Nash]

Indiana was plus 700 to win the national championship.

[John Holmberg]

Halfway through the middle of the year when you're like, okay, they're real, but

[Dave Nash]

find plus 700 to win.

[John Holmberg]

They weren't even picked to win their. Their conference. No way.

[Steve McCollum]

You talk about a coach.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, my God.

[Steve McCollum]

That can come in and change a culture. I don't know if you guys have watched some of these specials that they've had about Indiana football. Three years ago, not 30 years ago, three years ago, quarter of the stadium was full.

[John Holmberg]

The Hoosiers. It's a basketball stadium.

[Steve McCollum]

Yes. You couldn't get any football players from there. And this dude comes in and he looks like he's. He's eating sweet tarts or something. He's got a little sour puss on his face and all that. And all these kids, they are the most well coached college team I think I've ever seen on all three phases.

[John Holmberg]

Yep.

[Steve McCollum]

There's not a situation they're not ready for.

[Dave Nash]

No.

[Steve McCollum]

Are not prepared for.

[John Holmberg]

But the fun of the team is with everybody complaining. Nil ruined this and you know, ASU just lost their quarterback and there's seven other quarterbacks. This guy's going to Missouri now and he's leaving and this guy's going Alabama and they're moving around with the money. Indiana broke this system in a year by saying, oh, all right, well now that these guys are staying in college for six years, I'm just going to get a bunch of veterans. The average age of Indiana's team is 23 and a half. The average age of the Green Bay packers is just at 25 there. That means that Indiana has some dudes who are like 28 years old somewhere on that roster because you can't be a 23 and a half year old

[Steve McCollum]

average because you have some.

[John Holmberg]

You gotta have 27 year olds to balance this out just a little to hit 23 and a half. All of them three stars. None of them are superstars. And you get a coach that knows how to take a bunch of clay and say, you guys aren't great, but again, together you're going to be smarter and older.

[Steve McCollum]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

And more experienced than everyone. We played no one, and I mean no one said, hey, when Indiana plays Ohio State at the end of the year, it's going to be a bloodbath. It's going to be easy for him. No one said they were going to go and do what they did to Oregon in August. If I'd have told you in August, hey, Indiana is going to have a magical run. They play Oregon in the final four. Well, you just said Oregon's going to 50 to 3, the Indiana 1 and 72 against ranked teams above 5 in their existence, going in the playoffs.

[Steve McCollum]

They were ranked number one in the country one time in the history of the program. One time. Yeah, I guess when that was that week, that day, that week.

[John Holmberg]

It is unreal what Indiana's done. And there they go up against.

[Steve McCollum]

Well, here.

[Dave Nash]

No, what I love about the fact is what you just said, you know, they don't have a lot of five star athletes and they have.

[Steve McCollum]

No, none.

[Dave Nash]

Right, exactly. So, you know, I, in my baseball background, I got, I got buddies that are coaches, high end coaches and I've told them, you know, stop looking for the next major league player.

[Steve McCollum]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

Look for a guy that can help you win. Maybe he's not as big as you want, maybe he's not as fast as you're looking for Made in Strozar, but look for winners.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

And, and, and you can win with those guys. Coachable. Yes.

[Steve McCollum]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

That's totally.

[Steve McCollum]

Guys who love the game and I've had arguments with coaches at asu, at Cal, at Oregon to where I've done these camps in the spring where I see an offensive lineman who's six two and a half.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Steve McCollum]

Six three, two ninety. This dude will run through a frickin wall for you. You need to recruit.

[John Holmberg]

He's happy to be there.

[Steve McCollum]

Dale. He doesn't fit in the box.

[Dave Nash]

Right?

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Steve McCollum]

It's not in the box.

[John Holmberg]

You' five and February, the underwear Olympics happens.

[Steve McCollum]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

And you have the combine and you're like he can jump. Really? I'm like when do we need him jumping eight feet in the air on a regular basis.

[Steve McCollum]

An offensive lineman 40 ever broad jump. If I'm running 40 yards lineman, it's to celebrate. And I'm jogging.

[John Holmberg]

I don't want a dude who can throw 235 pounds up 12 times. I don't care. I want him to move someone £300 once.

[Steve McCollum]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

That's it. And I know you can. It's showing strength and ever speed is huge. But for the most part it's. They're all the same. They're almost all. Every, every position is like okay, the receivers are going to run 4, 3 to 4 5.

[Steve McCollum]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

The, the linebackers are going to go 5 4, 5 to 4 7. Occasionally you'll get that unicorn in there. He'll blip it four, four. But they're. We're talking tenths of seconds determining whether or not this guy's good enough to play.

[Dave Nash]

And he's running in shorts. He's not pads. Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

And he's got nobody around him. You know. I get it. And that to me is the coach ability where you can take this. Dale, how much better were you at SMU your senior year than you were your junior? Your, your even your junior year.

[Steve McCollum]

Yeah. Tremendously. More your body morphs into. You're. You mature and you know I'm 6, I'm 652-85 as a senior. You know as a sophomore I'm. I'm 6, 4 2, 50.

[John Holmberg]

You're throwing 35 pounds on knowledge.

[Steve McCollum]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

And an understanding and a comfort with your area. You've got a position. This Indiana team has had guys playing six years. Not necessarily for Indiana. Right. Six years of collegiate football. How much better are you as a roster of 22 starters that have had

[Steve McCollum]

five years experience and you can say that but there's a school in Utah that has probably the same demographics being byu. The guys go on two year missions and Then you can red shirt and. And all that. So I, I agree with you. Maturity and age. Your body is now fully formed. Your mind is almost formed. Right. If guys minds ever form. Oh, but yours is deformed and formed

[John Holmberg]

technically kind of mean the same thing. They both formed something.

[Steve McCollum]

They all are pushing the same. I just.

[John Holmberg]

But BYU's got the mission so they're not playing football for a couple years.

[Steve McCollum]

Right. But their body's growing and mature.

[John Holmberg]

But that, that five years of. I played a couple at junior college and I played at a. The second. Then you get into Indiana, you're like I got a great opportunity here. And everybody's like they broke the system

[Steve McCollum]

because you said we both said no. Five stars.

[John Holmberg]

None.

[Steve McCollum]

A couple four stars.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Steve McCollum]

And then if you look at the draft prognostications, they don't have a first round draft pick on their. Mendoza.

[John Holmberg]

Mendoza.

[Steve McCollum]

But skill guys or linemen know, it's just, it's fast, it's crazy.

[John Holmberg]

I've only watched Mendoza play three full games and I didn't like the first two. I thought he was benefiting from a very good offensive line. I thought a lot of the things he did again his body style, he fits the box. But he did a lot of weird first. First move was backwards. He drops back in shotgun. Three steps, four steps, you're like eh, he's making that two yard pass 12 yards. He doesn't need to be doing that. And you can't coach that out of a guy. A lot of guys retreat first and. But against Oregon, I was wrong. Like I watched that kid step into stuff. I mean he's stepping into throws that are. That he's got a rocket. The Bleacher Report app is your destination

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[John Holmberg]

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[Dave Nash]

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[John Holmberg]

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[John Holmberg]

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[John Holmberg]

Is there any player since Tim Tebow that's been more annoying the second you met him? Like everybody's like, oh, Mendoza's great. Every time you watch him in a post game press conference, you're like, oh my God, it's going to be easy to hate him. He's so corny.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah, but but he's a good leader. Did you hear the stories of great when he came over there, he. He learned everyone's names so he could tell everyone by name.

[John Holmberg]

That's something we set as a very low bar bar.

[Dave Nash]

But nobody does it.

[Steve McCollum]

No, I know.

[John Holmberg]

That's the thing. It's such a low bar that we actually bring it up when somebody's like, you know, he took time to learn everybody at work.

[Dave Nash]

I think I'm super lazy and I probably wouldn't do it.

[John Holmberg]

Do you know everybody at your job's name?

[Steve McCollum]

Well, you better. He hired.

[John Holmberg]

That's what I'm saying. You can't give or take a couple

[Dave Nash]

here and there, right?

[Steve McCollum]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Knowing people's names is like, wow, the guy knew my name. It's like. And it is. It's like people don't do it as much as they used to. Yeah. Does Indiana beat Miami now? We haven't talked about.

[Dave Nash]

I don't know how they don't. I'm just. I'm concerned. I don't care.

[John Holmberg]

Win or lose.

[Dave Nash]

Are they going to cover?

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

And I just think they're so strong.

[John Holmberg]

I can't bet against eight points. Seven. Eight points.

[Dave Nash]

It started at seven and a half. I think it's maybe gone up to eight and a half.

[Steve McCollum]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Really? I think I.

[Dave Nash]

That's a lot. I think I'd take Indiana and, and Miami.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

Is basically the home team.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

The games in Miami. Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

I think I'd take Indiana based on what we've said. You're literally talking about a semi Pro team of 23 year old, you know, fully grown filled out guys against Miami who has been playing this game for years with recruiting and getting. They probably had a couple 35 year old did they probably had Michael Irvin in uniform a few times. We didn't even know it.

[Dave Nash]

I'll say that. I don't think Indiana's chance to lose. I think it's just their year.

[Steve McCollum]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

It just comes down to are they winning by, you know, 14 late Miami scores a late touchdown to cover for. Nonsense.

[John Holmberg]

I mean I can't. I'm original. Originally from Indiana. Got family back there and they're all hooting and hollering.

[Dave Nash]

I'm like, they should.

[John Holmberg]

None of you called me in August and said watch this.

[Dave Nash]

Well, of course not.

[John Holmberg]

Come on.

[Steve McCollum]

Who would.

[John Holmberg]

Everybody in Ohio State. They won't shut up. Miami, we're going to Notre Dame. There is schools that constantly count.

[Dave Nash]

Yes, history counts.

[John Holmberg]

But nobody saw this. That's the amazing part. Now everybody, you know, I watch Some of the shows, and they're like, oh, we knew this about Indiana, and Kirk Signetti did this. I'm like, stop it. None of you were saying they'd get past Ohio State. Everybody was shining Ohio State from the day this season started. They couldn't get enough of that team. They were going to roll to the championship.

[Steve McCollum]

You know, the other thing is interesting when you talk about Mike Tomlin's coaching tree.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Steve McCollum]

I've heard Kurt Sagnetti being interviewed a bunch over the last month, and they ask him, you know, where does he get his philosophies and where did he learn? And, and he said, I learned more under Saban for one year than I have in my other whatever, 30 years of coaching.

[John Holmberg]

Hopefully. The one thing he learned was, don't try to be a pro coach.

[Steve McCollum]

Well, and I think he knows. He's, what, he's 63 years old?

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

He knows not to be.

[Steve McCollum]

No, he knows that. He's got it pretty good. But when you talk about coaching trees and you talk about influences and one year under Saban, it's incredible. He learned so much.

[John Holmberg]

It's, it's a. Saban's tree runs college.

[Steve McCollum]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

It's incredible. What?

[Steve McCollum]

That guy's smart.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, my God. It's just like, you look. Everybody's like, I kind of came out of the saving thing.

[Steve McCollum]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

That dude legitimately changed an entire conference, let alone the entire college.

[Steve McCollum]

I drove through Tuscaloosa. I'm ready to go. Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

I've actually been in a room with Nick Saban. I didn't get to say anything, but I think I got better at coaching, and I didn't even want to. It's gonna be. So you don't think they cover. You're gonna go Indiana take points, I think, or give points?

[Dave Nash]

I mean, I'm, I'm leaning that way. I know that's crazy.

[John Holmberg]

I think Miami actually kind of stomps them or Indiana stomps them.

[Dave Nash]

I, I, they're stomping everybody.

[Steve McCollum]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

I think, I think they're just that team. I think you're right.

[Steve McCollum]

Oregon looked like a lower tier.

[John Holmberg]

I noticed in Oregon, like you do in a boxing match, when a guy takes a punch and they look at him like, we don't. We are not winning this, like, immediately saw defeat in their eyes when they got on the field with him and just got.

[Steve McCollum]

Because he was known for speed and athletes, and Indiana's defense, I mean, just negated everything. Yeah. I did say this during the game. I said, it looks like Indiana's playing with 12 guys on defense. Yeah. Every play.

[John Holmberg]

They were everywhere.

[Steve McCollum]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

And I remember there was a play Oregon ran and like a end around or something, and the guy got about 6 yards and everybody walked over and just like on Oregon's, pat him on the head. Like, that's as good as we're going to do today. Like, you could sense that they knew they're outclassed.

[Steve McCollum]

Oh, yeah.

[John Holmberg]

They're a good football team, and they were that outclassed. And Indiana just.

[Steve McCollum]

Well, here's the thing from my playing days where, you know, you watch film. You watch film all week. I'm getting ready to go against you. Yeah. You know, and all that. See your moves, see your stance, figure out. And then that first play. Sometimes I hit you and it's like, this is easy.

[John Holmberg]

Yep.

[Steve McCollum]

And there's other times we hit heads

[John Holmberg]

and go, this can be a long day. It's going to be a long day. Yeah. When you feel strength in someone's hands. I remember basketball was always a thing I hated because I was always short, but I was stocky. So I fit, like, in the. When I was in my 20s, I fit in the forward category of a lot of leagues I played in. A lot of guys were taller than me. And if I'd lean and they'd move, I'm like, we're good. And I'd lean and I'd feel that hand just go, stop. And it was just finger pressure. Like, oh, no, I'm gonna have a terrible. This is all day. He's gonna move me anywhere he wants.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah. The thing I've heard is, you know, Miami's been. They're tough and they're big up front, and. And they're gonna have to make it a battle. And I'm just. When I look at Indiana, I'm just thinking, they're not gonna shy away.

[John Holmberg]

No. What are they afraid of? They're not. They impose their will. They're the classic football team that goes, we don't care what you do.

[Steve McCollum]

You're cowboys.

[John Holmberg]

We don't care what you do.

[Steve McCollum]

You would think, just like Oregon, that Miami's more athletic.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Steve McCollum]

But it doesn't show. It doesn't show. Oregon, I think, was more athletic than Indiana. Offense versus defense. Yeah. But it didn't show on the field.

[John Holmberg]

Well, Indiana can stop your athleticism with just pure will. Like, they just force themselves on you, and you're like, all right, try to be an athlete all you want. I'm just going to hold you here while you dance around. They are. They're impressive. That's an impressive thing. And I don't know if you can make Indiana a powerhouse that you got. There's a. There's a little dash of magic in what's going on here and keep this system alive.

[Steve McCollum]

But, you know, if you. If you have Signetti, you have Cuban, and you have success, man. Well, Mark's like, hey, you know, it cost $25 million.

[John Holmberg]

We can make that work. Yeah, that doesn't hurt.

[Steve McCollum]

I kind of like this undefeated.

[John Holmberg]

There is that part that people forget that. That. That was like, oh, there was an influx of cash that kind of helped us out a little bit.

[Dave Nash]

That's where college is now. And I have no problem with that at all. It's more power to the athletes.

[Steve McCollum]

More power. There's gotta be guardrails.

[John Holmberg]

There has to be guardrails.

[Steve McCollum]

There's gotta be guardrails. You can't transfer every year.

[Dave Nash]

No, I'll give you that. Yeah, but I mean, you should be able to give as much money to you want for whoever you want. But in regards to allowed to trade

[John Holmberg]

these guys, because they were talking about that the other day, started to talk about in the middle of, like, in the portal year, like, he's going to leave us. So you can trade his rights away. You don't trade him during the season. You can trade his rights away to someone else and get something in return financially. Because if it's all about money, that's what's coming.

[Steve McCollum]

That's.

[John Holmberg]

So if it's all about money, that's what's coming. It's like, we're not going to lose. It's like, you know, renting a player. So you don't, you know, so you don't take the hit, you get something in return. And they're not going to ask for, you know, there won't be trades of players, but be like, all right, if you're going to take him, we get a million bucks from you to replace that. There has to be. Well, teams like ASU can't keep up.

[Dave Nash]

No, they won't.

[Steve McCollum]

Yeah, but what you're seeing is like, that Dante Jones up in Oregon. Yeah, I'm sorry, Washington.

[John Holmberg]

That's right.

[Steve McCollum]

No, Oregon. I'm sorry, Oregon.

[John Holmberg]

You've got me confused. The quarterback. Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

This Jones.

[John Holmberg]

I don't think.

[Steve McCollum]

Dante.

[John Holmberg]

I think you've made a mistake.

[Steve McCollum]

The quarterback.

[Dave Nash]

Quarterback for Oregon.

[Steve McCollum]

He was being recruited by lsu.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Steve McCollum]

He signed an nil deal with Oregon. Yeah. And then he said, no, I'm going to go to lsu because they're offering More money.

[John Holmberg]

The basis of the trade is based on you're tampering with my player while we've got him.

[Steve McCollum]

Yeah. And then they said, no, we're going to sue you because we have a contract.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. It's insane. So I hate it. And also think it's made the sport better until. It will. It will break it.

[Steve McCollum]

I always say this.

[Dave Nash]

It's just like Dante Moore.

[Steve McCollum]

I'm sorry. I got the Dante right. Give me some credit. But when I played it was. Coaches held all the power. Yeah. And instead of coming back to the middle.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Steve McCollum]

Like everything in America, it goes.

[John Holmberg]

It went crazy.

[Steve McCollum]

All the way the other way.

[John Holmberg]

And it's going to ruin.

[Steve McCollum]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

It's going.

[Steve McCollum]

I think it's going to.

[John Holmberg]

I like Indiana. I think we all kind of agree that's gonna be a thing. We'll get into little basketball suns here locally. Fun to watch still. They got Jalen Green coming. Something's wrong with Oklahoma City. And that came out of the blue as they finally got fully healthy.

[Steve McCollum]

Yeah. They got fully healthy and.

[John Holmberg]

And it screwed everything up. Like something's not right there. I think they'll be fine. But. This is a weird hiccup.

[Steve McCollum]

But that's what I. I brought up on our show. The main event. And I'm gonna throw it out to you. The Suns are expecting probably their second best player back.

[John Holmberg]

Yep.

[Steve McCollum]

Here. Anytime in the next week or two. Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

And he's been a participant in the bench and like all that. It's not like you're just plugging him in and like hoping his chemistry.

[Steve McCollum]

But he's played one game in one quarter.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Steve McCollum]

When he comes back, they. The coaches said he's going to start. That means somebody else is going to go to the benchmark.

[John Holmberg]

Right.

[Steve McCollum]

And. Well, Grayson or Colin Gillespie.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[Steve McCollum]

Gillespie's been starting somebody and. And. And. But minutes are going to be changed. Well, dynamics are going to be changed. Could something. And again I'm hoping against hope that it doesn't happen. Could things happen in Phoenix like they did when LeBron came back to the Lakers when happened to Oklahoma City that

[John Holmberg]

you force it to Green? I don't think he's earned that I own this floor kind of thing. So I think if he's off a little OTT has been quick to go. Okay. Let's get this rotation. He recognizes a guy who. Gillespie is a. Like one of those Indiana guys. It's like he's happy that he's in this league and he'll run through a wall for you.

[Steve McCollum]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

You tell him not starting anymore. Your new role is this. He's like, you got it well.

[Steve McCollum]

And I think he's beaten down a little bit, too. My. My co host of the morning show Steve McCollum says he looks like he's worn down a little bit. He might welcome that. You're still going to play 20, 25 minutes a game. Let's be off the bench. But you're right. This team reminds me this guy who's been out forever, played one game. He's been on road trips. Yeah, he's been on the bench.

[John Holmberg]

The team.

[Steve McCollum]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. Yeah. It's fun to watch because they have a chemistry even with the guys who aren't playing. Like, they enjoy their time together. The last thing I want to talk about before we give the last five minutes to the madman over there. I know this is going to. We should have led with this, I think. I mean, the NFL playoffs and all that are a pretty big deal, but this is huge. The WNBA is talking about strike. And I. Guys, I got the news that Tomlin bailed out on this during this show. This is the most emotional thing I could feel on top of the Tomlin.

[Steve McCollum]

If it doesn't. The season doesn't start on time.

[John Holmberg]

If the WNBA season does not start, I can't even imagine what my summer will do for those two weeks. If they strike for a week, that's half the season. They don't play that much.

[Dave Nash]

People talk about millennials being, you know, expecting so much. Yeah. How does a woman basketball player that. Nobody. Nobody. You know, what's this? What who's cares? And they're expecting more and more money, aren't you? Isn't supply and demand part doesn't apply here.

[Steve McCollum]

It's just.

[John Holmberg]

It's all just. You've been oppressed by this. Nobody stopped anyone from starting a league.

[Dave Nash]

No.

[John Holmberg]

Years ago, no one paid for it.

[Dave Nash]

No.

[John Holmberg]

The NBA said, all right, we'll pay. It is the least feminist thing they could do to a female sport, in my opinion, is go, we'll pay for your little fun thing. Go off and play. We don't care if it makes money. And then they come back with the nerve of saying, pay us a little more or we're done.

[Steve McCollum]

Pay us a lot more.

[John Holmberg]

That's very true. Pay us a lot more. Could you imagine this is what I compare to? You're a husband, you've done a lot of work in your life and you've earned some money, and you marry a woman and you say you don't have to do anything if you don't want to.

[Steve McCollum]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

Like I'm going to take care of everything. If you want to do something, I'm going to help you with that too. And she goes, great. And she goes and does a job or doesn't do a job, but then she comes back and she goes, I don't think I get enough of the pie here at the house. And you're like, wait a minute, I've given you all of it. Without this, you have to go fend for yourself. And you have the nerve to come back and say, this isn't enough. That's essentially what this is. It would be a guy throwing up his. I'm trying to give you all the power.

[Steve McCollum]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

And you keep going, no, you need to give me more. If I'm the NBA. And they can't because they buried. I just say it's over.

[Steve McCollum]

I think it's true, bro.

[John Holmberg]

11 million a team. And. And the women on the court are fighting Caitlin Clark, which is the best thing that's ever happened.

[Steve McCollum]

I was gonna say, I think it's two pronged. I think it's what you said.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Steve McCollum]

But I think it's also the fact that this league before Caitlin Clark, whatever you think of her, best thing since sliced bread or good or wherever you think she falls. Things changed when she came in league. And I look at it again at a much smaller level. Like when Larry Bird and Magic Johnson came in before they came in. And people that aren't old enough don't remember the NBA finals were taped delayed, middle of the night or the next day, or the next day or the next day.

[John Holmberg]

They were going under, the league was going to fold.

[Steve McCollum]

And here comes Larry and here comes Magic.

[John Holmberg]

Yep.

[Steve McCollum]

And it was a rivalry made.

[John Holmberg]

And not to interrupt you. Not to interrupt you. They built it in college the same way Caitlin Clark did. Their interest came as people side eyed Michigan State and Indiana State, like, what's going on here?

[Steve McCollum]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

And Caitlin was the same way. She didn't get hype, she didn't get media coverage. She was good enough that people had to pay attention to her.

[Steve McCollum]

To Iowa.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, to Iowa. Basketball. Female basketball in Iowa. So much so that they're like, that's different. Same as Magic Johnson.

[Steve McCollum]

And maybe a little bit of it was, she's white. Well, Larry Bird was white and Magic Johnson was black. But without that. And Charles Barkley says it all the time, said every one of us, every person today in the NBA should think they're lucky stars for Magic. And Larry Michael, yeah, he took it to a new Stratosphere. But without those two, there's no Michael.

[John Holmberg]

There's no Michael. The Kareem Abdul jabbar, Moses Malone, Dr. J. Countless amount of guys that kept their mouths quiet about we built. They never once said, we built this. These two guys come. They recognized this is the best thing for a floundering league. Why the WNBA can't say, hey, guys, we don't make any money.

[Steve McCollum]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

So hate her all you want, but not publicly. Shut your mouth to media.

[Steve McCollum]

And we got charter flights.

[John Holmberg]

Yes.

[Steve McCollum]

We have to move her games to

[John Holmberg]

big arenas without her. What about when we. Yeah, that's over now.

[Steve McCollum]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

So for whatever reason that ended.

[Steve McCollum]

That's cor. It's.

[John Holmberg]

And they want to strike as if the.

[Steve McCollum]

The.

[John Holmberg]

The public will lose their minds. And what needs to happen is that thing needs to fold up, just like the Coyotes had to fold up. You know, Phoenix was behind the eight ball with the NHL, and nobody ever says, well, they started 70 years before us, before we got a team, so it's impossible that you need to fund this. No. You had every opportunity to be successful, and you didn't. And you. And you are looking this perfect thing in the face and saying, oh, she could make us a ton of money and actually help. And they're fighting it.

[Steve McCollum]

So what you've effectively done, John, is I've been so excited about the sportsman. You got the visual playoffs coming up. Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Steve McCollum]

You got the national championship coming up. You got the Suns on rock and rocking and rolling. And now you're going to put me in a bad mood because we're going to lose.

[Dave Nash]

I'll give you a different spin on it.

[Steve McCollum]

It.

[Dave Nash]

I would be more interested in going to a WNBA game and them pulling five guys out of the stands and playing those five guys. Yeah, that would be more interesting.

[John Holmberg]

Would be fun to watch because, you know, who knows?

[Dave Nash]

And they. And they would have to like what Vegas play in. What? They're like dress shoes. You got to wear jeans. Dress shoes.

[John Holmberg]

That means negating their abilities a little more than I'm willing to do. No, but I'd watch that.

[Steve McCollum]

Yeah, but I'd watch that. But. But John said, hey, you know, every once in a while, you back into the guy and you feel. You feel the hand.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Steve McCollum]

You might feel a hand that's a

[John Holmberg]

little stronger than I wanted it to be. Yeah. So hopefully that if they strike, we can get through our summer. I don't know, guys.

[Steve McCollum]

We.

[John Holmberg]

We like sports so much, and it's like, aren't we just spinning our tires?

[Steve McCollum]

We'll look forward to the Cardinals.

[John Holmberg]

I guess it just makes us have to look past it. Hopefully they can fix this.

[Dave Nash]

Last notice. Diamondbacks just traded for.

[Steve McCollum]

Yeah. Washed up third baseman Hernando.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, yeah, don't worry.

[Dave Nash]

Nolan Ariando.

[Steve McCollum]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Arnado.

[Steve McCollum]

Arnado.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, boy.

[Dave Nash]

Really?

[Steve McCollum]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

It's a washed up third baseman who just got his whole life stripped out of him.

[Dave Nash]

Well, Cardinals are paying for the money, so they're only paying him like 12 million years. That's a good deal.

[John Holmberg]

He, when he was in Colorado, it just sucked the life out of him. They tried to give him the Cardinals and nothing good.

[Dave Nash]

I don't think he's done anything.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, that's rough. All right, well, good for the Diamondbacks. And probably the Diamondbacks will make magic with that somehow. I don't know. All right, let's get the hell out of here. That is this sports thing in John Homburg podcast. My name is John Ulbrich from Idea kpd. There's Dale Hellistray, three time world champion, co host of the main event with Steve McCollum, adopts and high alum and final five minutes go to that man right there. It is Dave Nash. Five minutes.

[Dave Nash]

I don't think I have five minutes. But we just, we just.

[John Holmberg]

Every time he's gonna be a minute, a minute into telling us how he doesn't have five. And then it'll be 15 minutes. Five minutes.

[Dave Nash]

We just. Me and Dale just did a show. John was going to come in, but he's late as usual in regards to all the government fraud going on in Minnesota. And I will just say that's just the tip of the iceberg everywhere. And as a, as an American, we should be up in arms that our tax money is not being used on Americans.

[Steve McCollum]

Open Somalia, Dave.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah. Well, if you're a Somalian, you, you might want to, you might want to keep the, keep the game going.

[John Holmberg]

Can I light the fire under you? What do you think of the Minnesota state flag?

[Dave Nash]

It's Somalian, right?

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, look, there's something to that. That's very strange that they, they changed out the Minnesota state flag to look an awful lot like the Somalian flag about a year ago. I don't remember exactly when it happened, but.

[Dave Nash]

But. Yeah, and, and, but do you realize there's a representative in Minnesota who was killed because she had the, the deciding vote on whether they're going to continue to fund these daycares and all this stuff like that? She was killed a year ago.

[John Holmberg]

I didn't know that.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah, she was Killed by Tim Waltz's employee.

[John Holmberg]

Allegedly.

[Dave Nash]

No, not allegedly. 100.

[John Holmberg]

You know that. And he's in jail and he.

[Dave Nash]

And he sent a letter to the FBI saying Tim Walls made him do it.

[John Holmberg]

This is evidence everywhere.

[Dave Nash]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

No.

[Dave Nash]

Look it up.

[John Holmberg]

I will look it up. Will it be your website that I find.

[Dave Nash]

No, I don't.

[John Holmberg]

I just want to know where the source. The real matrix. The real matrix.

[Steve McCollum]

Look it up.

[John Holmberg]

And there you are. I can't do that. Well, that's the matrix. That's.

[Dave Nash]

I would just say, listen, I don't live in Minnesota. I'm not covering the story. I'm not an investigative reporter.

[Steve McCollum]

But.

[Dave Nash]

But that happened.

[Steve McCollum]

My thing with it. Because I just. We just taped this an hour ago. Yeah. And the thing that takes a guy named Nick Shirley. Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

This guy could be John Holmberg, could

[Steve McCollum]

be Dave Nash, 22, 23 year old, to blow this case up. We got FBI, Homeland Security.

[Dave Nash]

We got showed on the show down the. In the show that they did news reports on this seven, eight years ago.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

This is not. This doesn't just start happening.

[John Holmberg]

But you're saying Tim Walsh killed.

[Dave Nash]

No. One of his employees is. The husband and wife. Were employees for Tim Waltz for years.

[John Holmberg]

And Waltz put a hit on him. Well, let's just say it. If you're going to. You.

[Dave Nash]

You use your head.

[Steve McCollum]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

And you say this guy's connected to walls.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

Why would this happen? Why would. Why would this guy kill this lady?

[Steve McCollum]

And this lady cast the deciding vote for the shutdown to shut down the Medicare stuff.

[John Holmberg]

And we were that close to having that guy as the vice president.

[Steve McCollum]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

That's crazy. Don't get me started on Kamala. But still. Holy cow.

[Dave Nash]

And. And, you know, because of the fraudulent votes, they're saying 60 or 70 million people voted for him. I don't think that was a fraction of that, but still, there's millions of people that thought this guy was. He's the answer for our problems in government. We need this guy in second in charge.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. See, these are what five minutes with a madman always makes you. Say again, look it up. That's your job today.

[Steve McCollum]

Do you know the single most probably politically important event that ever happened?

[John Holmberg]

You're turning into him. He's got you.

[Steve McCollum]

No, no. I thought this wouldn't happen.

[John Holmberg]

Okay, go ahead.

[Steve McCollum]

What do you think happened in the last two to three years? The single most important probably political event that happened.

[John Holmberg]

The most important thing that happened in the last two years, politically. I don't know.

[Steve McCollum]

Elon Musk buying Twitter.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, well, yeah, that was a pretty

[Dave Nash]

big deal because you can give your opinions out there, it can be shared, and it's not censored. And before Musk, everything was.

[John Holmberg]

It was. Started getting censored a lot.

[Dave Nash]

Starting.

[Steve McCollum]

Well, I'm.

[John Holmberg]

No, it got. It got. Like with the Facebook thing when they actually had to admit, oh, no, we did change the rules on that.

[Dave Nash]

Everything was censored. And that opened it up.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

Thank God. Without. Without freedom of speech, there are no freedoms.

[Steve McCollum]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

All right, I want a new segment every week with you accusing someone of murder. Again. That's gotta happen every week. All right, we're done. That's enough of us. We'll talk to you guys. Guys, next time.

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