S E31: The Sports Thing Podcast w/Holmberg, Hellestrae And Nash - Episode 31 - 04-01-26

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Sports Thing Podcast w/Holmberg, Hellestrae & Nash

Episode 31 – April 10, 2026

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Overview

In this episode of The Sports Thing Podcast, John Holmberg is joined by former NFL player Dale Hellestrae and former AZ media personality Dave Nash to break down the biggest moments in sports this week. The show dives into what may be the greatest shot in NCAA tournament history, explores the controversies over inclusion and free speech in sports culture, debates NBA "tanking" and fixes for the draft, touches on baseball's rarest feats, and closes with a candid discussion about athlete mental health and the pressures of fame (featuring Tiger Woods). The panel also mixes in Arizona sports, clever anecdotes, and their signature playful debate.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. NCAA Tournament: The "Greatest Shot" Debate

Timestamps ~01:50–16:01

• Holmberg opens by declaring UConn's Braylon Mullins' buzzer-beater against Duke "might be the greatest shot in NCAA tournament history."
  • “You go into the Final Four after being down 19… the whole story of that game and that shot ending it might be the greatest moment…” (John Holmberg, 02:51)
• Dave Nash compares it to other iconic moments, especially Christian Laettner’s shot ("The only other shot…is Christian Laettner’s…").
• They break down Duke’s late-game management and free throw fundamentals:
  • “If you don’t make 80% of your free throws, I’m going to disown you.” (Dale Hellestrae quoting his dad, 06:18)
  • "The word free is in it." (Holmberg, 05:53)
• Credit to referees for “letting the emotion be there” in that moment, e.g. Coach Dan Hurley’s emotional headbutt celebration with a ref (12:35).
• The indirect impact on gambling, with a co-host telling the story of a friend cashing out early on a parlay and missing the dramatic win.
  • “Never take the buyout. Why gamble if you want half?” (Holmberg, 13:34)
• Comparison to memorable NBA playoff moments (Jordan, Kerr, etc.)
• The emotional resonance of those moments for fans and what makes buzzer-beaters so unforgettable.

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2. Steve Kerr and Suns/Gamesmanship Debates

Timestamps ~16:07–19:12

• Extended riff on Steve Kerr’s legacy as Suns GM and Warriors coach.
  • Panelists are polarized: Dale Hellestrae and an unnamed co-host voice strong dislike (“He is the biggest fraud since Bill Belichick.” – Co-host, 17:26)
  • Counter: Holmberg credits Kerr for “learning from mistakes.”
  • They discuss the difficulty of sustained success, luck vs. skill, and how narratives often outpace facts in coaching legacies.

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3. Controversy: Inclusion, Free Speech & the NBA

Timestamps ~19:14–29:44

• The show shifts to debate the firing of Jaden Ivey by the Bulls for statements opposing LGBTQ events, exploring the line between inclusivity and freedom of expression.
  • “If you don’t know, Jaden Ivey of the Bulls put out a post ... not on board, this whole LGBTQ thing, it’s not a righteous lifestyle... He was cut by the Bulls. And they’re like, ‘We are all about inclusivity…’" (Holmberg, 19:39)
• Nash and Holmberg agree: “The word inclusive means everybody and everything, and that includes stuff you don’t like.” (Holmberg, 19:36)
• They challenge sports leagues for their “hypocrisy of inclusion” (Nights for certain communities, but not others: e.g., “You’re being selective with your inclusivity.” – Holmberg, 22:55)
• Resonates with the “shut up and dribble” sentiment—bring sports back to being an escape.
• They discuss whether athletes should be punished for expressing religious beliefs and the workplace challenges of “mandatory” participation in themed nights.

Notable Quote:
"Don’t make me do you. ... Don’t make me do this by gaslighting me into bigotry and racism if I don’t." (Holmberg, 24:29–24:30)

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4. NBA Tanking & Draft Reform

Timestamps ~30:05–41:00

• Discussion of empty stands at Suns–Grizzlies due to tanking teams.
  • “There was no one at that game ... might have been a thousand people in that arena.” (Holmberg, 30:53)
• Holmberg proposes a radical fix: a tournament among non-playoff teams, with the winner getting the #1 draft pick.
  • “You play a tournament for opposite of the playoffs ... the winner gets the number one pick.” (Holmberg, 32:27)
• Alternatives: expand/fix the lottery, freeze lottery spots at the trade deadline, or find ways to really penalize tanking.
• The challenge of maintaining competitive integrity and keeping fans engaged.
• Reflection on NFL vs. NBA approaches; NFL players can’t “tank” physically or they'd "get hurt" (Hellestrae, 35:18).

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5. Baseball: Rarity and Records

Timestamps ~48:45–55:57

• Celebrating D-backs pitcher’s rare “immaculate inning” (nine pitches, nine strikes, three strikeouts).
  • “In the history of baseball... there’s been something called an immaculate inning...115 or 118 times” (Holmberg, 48:46)
• List of other rare feats: unassisted triple plays, perfect games, multiple grand slams in an inning.
• Cy Young’s 511 wins and Ripken’s games played streak considered “unbreakable.”
  • “Cal Ripken’s consecutive game streak...guys take a day off the fourth week of their rookie season!” (Nash, 51:08)
• Discussion of how fan engagement around rare moments has faded, even as sports market these feats.

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6. Baseball Economics: Dodgers, Super Teams, and TV Revenue

Timestamps ~58:00–63:17

• Prognosis: “This will be the last year we have baseball for…” due to labor issues and Dodger/Yankee financial dominance.
• The panel explains the vast difference between MLB and NFL revenue sharing:
  • “Each NFL team gets a check...for about $500 million. …You haven’t sold a ticket, parking, beer, hot dog...” (Nash, 63:00)
• Proposed fixes: pool and split all TV revenue (not just national contracts), but let teams keep advertising/merch profits.
• Contrasting capitalist vs. “survive and advance” models in US sports.

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7. Athlete Health, Mental Health & Tiger Woods

Timestamps ~67:03–72:13

• Candid diagnosis of Tiger Woods’ physical and mental decline, with a side note on public scrutiny of athlete image vs. reality.
  • “When you stop grooming or caring for yourself, you’re a massively depressed person. Tiger is.” (Holmberg, 67:03)
  • “He might not have the confidence to say, ‘I don’t want to come in 34th...’” (Holmberg, 69:41)
• Hellestrae shares stories of painkiller use to stay on the field: “...my pregame routine was I would take a Darva set and I’d take a Vicodin…and I’d have a Tordol shot.” (Hellestrae, 70:55)
• Athletes’ struggle dealing with pain, pressure, and public expectation.
• Discussion broadens to how fame and scrutiny affect top athletes—“Your brain shouldn’t be able to handle it” (Holmberg, 75:21).

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8. The Impossible Standard: Athlete Behavior, Legacy & Media

Timestamps ~72:13–81:56

• Contrasting how Tiger Woods, Phil Mickelson, and legends like Arnold Palmer have managed their public images.
• Social media and modern journalism make privacy nearly impossible; “We decided to tear down our heroes now” (Holmberg, 78:26).
• Hellestrae and Holmberg explain how fame warps perspectives and how even role models struggled to hide their vices in past generations.
• Final consensus: true greatness is rare, and expecting perfection is unrealistic.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• "If you don’t make 80% of your free throws, I’m going to disown you." (Dale Hellestrae, 06:18)
• "Don’t make me do you. ... Don’t make me do this by gaslighting me into bigotry and racism if I don’t." (Holmberg, 24:29–24:30)
• "There was no one at that game ... might have been a thousand people in that arena." (Holmberg, 30:53)
• "Each NFL team gets a check...for about $500 million. …You haven’t sold a ticket, parking, beer, hot dog..." (Dave Nash, 63:00)
• "When you stop grooming or caring for yourself, you’re a massively depressed person." (Holmberg, 67:03)
• "We decided to tear down our heroes now." (Holmberg, 78:26)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• NCAA Tournament: Greatest shot debate – 01:50–16:01
• Steve Kerr/Suns legacy debate – 16:07–19:12
• Inclusion controversy & NBA free speech – 19:14–29:44
• NBA tanking, draft reform ideas – 30:05–41:00
• Baseball rarity & unbreakable records – 48:45–55:57
• MLB/NFL revenue sharing & superteams – 58:00–63:17
• Athlete mental & physical health (Tiger Woods) – 67:03–72:13
• Public scrutiny & athlete legacies – 72:13–81:56

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Tone

The discussion is candid, spirited, and occasionally irreverent, with panelists oscillating between nostalgia, sharp critique, and lighthearted banter. While Holmberg aims to keep the conversation broad for sports fans, Hellestrae and Nash offer the perspective of both athlete and grizzled observer, peppering in memorable stories and takes.

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For New Listeners

This episode is essential for those who love deep dives into not just games but the issues and ironies driving modern sports. You’ll walk away with plenty of lively debate, context for the headlines, and some laughs—especially if you’re an Arizona sports fan.

Transcript

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[John Holberg]

Talking about caging brains. And we're off. Hey everybody, it's John Holberg here From the Morning Sickness 98 KUPD. Wildly successful morning show here in the valley and all over the world. Really number two in Djibouti. Talk about that some other time. I am now the host and proprietor of the sports which you are watching right now. Here's your. Here's your co host, the Angry patriot. Dave Nash stands next to me. He is getting prepared even though we've had the last 20 minutes of. He's scrambling around like he just.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

I've been busy trying to straighten you guys out. Now we got a good start.

[John Holberg]

Dave's here, three time world champion of Dallas Cowboys co host of the main event with Steve McCollum as Dale Hellistra. He's here as well. Let's get right to it. I think the main. There's a lot going on.

[Dave Nash]

Yes. I wonder how you're going to start this.

[John Holberg]

Well, I want to start with what I think might be the greatest shot in NCAA tournament history. No, no, come on, let's not, let's not act like this was something we can comp. There's a couple of other great ones. I look, I wasn't around for the early days, but in the modern 64. Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

What?

[John Holberg]

What Braylon Mullins of UConn did a mistakes by Duke, which will drive you

[Dave Nash]

everything that went into it. Now you get. The only other shot. Shot that you could probably maybe put in the same parlance is Christian Laitner's Grant Hill.

[John Holberg]

Christian Laitner. That broke.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

No. Yes. I got the guy.

[Dave Nash]

Greater than that.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

I forgot the guy's name. He was a coach.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah, but it was like. But, yeah, that was like a. A sweet 16 thing.

[John Holberg]

I agree, I agree. If you win a sweet 16 with a great shot, so be it. There's probably been a thousand less than Elite 8 games where there's been, oh, an amazing end.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holberg]

You go into the Final Four after being down 19. I mean, the whole story of that game and that shot ending, it might be the greatest moment in admittedly, like, what you're saying. Thousands of amazing buzzer beaters. And last, I mean, there was another one in the first round and I don't remember who it was anymore, where just getting down the court in three passes. And then it was like, are you kidding me? And then the other team goes down and buzzer beats that.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holberg]

There's great moments. That shot from a freshman who. Who was over five, couldn't hit anything and wasn't trusted. He was on the floor just in case defense needed to happen. He's a good passer. A foul guy. They were just going to keep him out there, foul. One of the guys from Duke pull him, put rebounders in and he hits that 30 footer dead nuts on the net.

[Dave Nash]

And the thing is, John, tell me this, because he had not made a three pointer. I was talking to some people. I was watching the game. I said, that's like me having a bad putting day, which happens.

[John Holberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

And a lot. And then. But then that one, that as soon as it leaves the putter, it looks. It looks good. Yep. That shot from the time it left his hands, you went.

[John Holberg]

I said it in the air. I said, he hit it. I left that game in the beginning of the second half when I saw UConn didn't have anything right. They're down what, 15, 16. And I'm like, they're not even kind of a drag of a game. Little upset because the game before was boring.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holberg]

You're like, all right, well, I tolerated a half of this. Duke's got them locked down.

[Dave Nash]

Yes.

[John Holberg]

Went outside, played some basketball by myself. Just have some interesting basketball. And then went back in for water. Checked. Six, seven minutes left. I'm like, got it within 10.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holberg]

I'll plop down and watch Duke finish him off.

[Dave Nash]

And then boom.

[John Holberg]

Boom, boom. That six minutes was. And other than the last play, Duke didn't collapse. Duke did not like, oh, my God. They got a little tight. But they didn't like, throw it away.

[Dave Nash]

They did not get super tight. But they did become protective.

[John Holberg]

Yeah, they played a little bit. Not to lose.

[Dave Nash]

Yes.

[John Holberg]

But they were still playing. And Yukon was just hitting.

[Dave Nash]

But. And, but it wasn't like Yukon also hit seven threes in a row.

[John Holberg]

No, they were just. But they had hit a couple. Enough to make you worse. In the first half, they were one and 11. One. What was it? One of 12 or one of 13 from three. And they were down 15. And you're thinking you get three or four of those in, it's still a

[Dave Nash]

seven, six point game. Right.

[John Holberg]

And so you're looking at this like all they got to do is mop that up a little. They didn't play terribly. They're in range. They're just missing shots. That second half, they just got smart. Hit a couple of threes and then, I mean, and John, I got. I don't care about Yukon. I got off the couch.

[Dave Nash]

Right. And that's the thing. I'm not a UConn fan. I did pick them to go to the final four. I was shocked as the next person. But the one thing. And every time the tournament comes around, I. I hear my dad's voice in my head. He banged it into me growing up. Dale, you make your free throws.

[John Holberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah. They're a free throw.

[John Holberg]

The word free is in it.

[Dave Nash]

It's the only thing. He said it's the only thing. And think about this. Only thing in sports never changes. 10 foot hoop.

[John Holberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

15 foot away. No wind, no rain, no defense. Nobody can put a hand in your face. Nothing changes but the pressure.

[John Holberg]

That's true. In your head.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Yes.

[John Holberg]

Yep.

[Dave Nash]

And that's. And he. I mean, you said, dale, if you don't make 80% of your free throws, I'm going to disown you.

[John Holberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

You know, that's smart.

[John Holberg]

Yes. Fundamental play.

[Dave Nash]

And you see it rear its ugly head so often, especially when it's that one on one.

[John Holberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

You miss that first one, it's huge.

[John Holberg]

Because the second one's laying on. You must hit. And I thought when they had. I forget who was shooting the free throws. And he missed the first one. Clank that second one.

[Dave Nash]

Yes.

[John Holberg]

Kill some time. At the very least, you still have the lead. Kill some time. You know, have to have them scramble, make it. Maybe the ball bounces. Crazy. Throw whatever you can make something happen there. If they don't have possession. They can't call a timeout. And he hits the free throw and gives that. That moment, you're like, okay. And then. But when Duke had it. And in hindsight, it's easy, but in a weird way, that's coaching, because the coach needed to say, just hold the ball. Do not pass this thing around. Don't get it. Just hold it. They have to foul us.

[Dave Nash]

You're down. You're down. Two.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

Or you're up. You're up. You have to. If you do, you get the ball.

[John Holberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

Maybe if there's somebody wide open in front of you, like the first pass. Yeah, fine.

[John Holberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

Then you hold it. They come to the guy, you wanted it. Yeah. You're going to go shoot free throws. A second or two is already one off the clock. If they. Then you make two free throws, games over.

[John Holberg]

Yeah. Well, you had. You had a couple of options. If I'm the coach, that's the first thing I do in the huddle.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holberg]

First off, this ball stays tight in whoever gets the ball's hand. I don't care if it's. I'm the coach. I'm not putting anybody who can't shoot free throws on the floor. Whoever catches that, protect it like it's a baby. Like we're talking about Grogu from the Mandalorian. They could explain that later. And, and. Or just chuck it straight up in the air.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Well, you have two options. You can't throw it up for 10 seconds, but two seconds.

[John Holberg]

Well, no, no, that ball takes four seconds.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

They took the ball out at 10 seconds, so you're. I think, 10.1. So. Yeah, realistically, chuck it. You. You, you. You wouldn't even had a backcourt violation. If you do, it's 0.1. The only thing you can do is a tip.

[John Holberg]

And that's my point being you had tons.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

But, but, but you also. You got to remember, I'm just playing devil's advocate here, that if. If the guy just takes the pass and doesn't go anywhere, he's going to get mauled and he's going to get the ball.

[Dave Nash]

No, I'm talking like a first pass to the. Not Bagley.

[John Holberg]

It wasn't boozer.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah. It was a younger.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Too many guys get a ball like that and, and guys get their hands in there on the ball and they're going to. They're going to call. Jump ball.

[Dave Nash]

No, they're going to call.

[John Holberg]

And those seconds late in the game, they're going to let him wrestle for A couple seconds. And so what? Get a jump ball. That's more seconds off the clock. I watched the Suns play the spurs two years ago, Wemby's rookie year, I think maybe his second year. And the Suns had like a 12 point lead. Kevin Durant just kind of lazily, they passed the ball and they had this thing and Wemby just reached and took it and turned around and put it in like, are you kidding me? And the spurs won a game they had no business winning. And I'm like, that's just securing the ball. That's the coach. Whoever catches this ball, tucks that in.

[Dave Nash]

Yes.

[John Holberg]

And just let them tackle you. Let them. They cannot steal. It's a halfback.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holberg]

You're might knock me down. You're not getting this.

[Dave Nash]

You're gonna foul me.

[John Holberg]

You have to.

[Dave Nash]

And most by the time we got to the set guy, somebody's running over there. Just try and tap him to get to foul. Because even if you knock a ball loose, that's three, four more seconds running off the clock.

[John Holberg]

And the first guy who got the ball recognized. Nobody's near me.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holberg]

They have to run to me and they're gonna run off of him. So he made the right move passing away.

[Dave Nash]

Yes.

[John Holberg]

Once Boozer got it stop. Lock it down.

[Dave Nash]

But let me tell you, Wade, let me tell you in his defense, what I saw, what he saw. The guy down, the guy down the court had a whole half court to lob it.

[John Holberg]

Right.

[Dave Nash]

There's nobody there.

[John Holberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

One like one guy hanging back. I know all I have to do is get it over these guys and it's over.

[John Holberg]

He would have made the right move, that tip ball, that defense on it. But here's the other thing that's fun about that whole deal is, and we don't give credit to this ever, the referees in that game had a couple opportunities, especially on that boozer part where it did get a little bit like bangy. They weren't doing it, but they could have whistled something earlier in the game. They might have had you put that kind of pressure on an inbound pass. There might have been some. They didn't whistle immediately. That was going to have to be a pretty physical foul.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holberg]

And I think Yukon played it smart. Oh, they're going to pass it around. Let's not grab them right. Until they lock down. And it went right in there. And then beyond that, just getting the ball had to be a 0.2% chance hitting the shot.

[Dave Nash]

One pass and then the. The guy who'd made a three or two. One or two three point shots. Passes it to the guy who hadn't

[John Holberg]

made one and he's standing six, seven feet behind the three point line.

[Dave Nash]

Story goes out that the guy who made it is from Indianapolis.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Yeah.

[John Holberg]

And he's got to take the team back to Indy on his shoulders. It's the most remarkable shot in NCAA history.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

I still like the Bryce Drew one, if that's his name.

[John Holberg]

Bryce Drew. Yeah, that might be. I think that's right. But he again, I think that was earlier rounds, wasn't it?

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

I don't care. It was. Well, because he's

[Dave Nash]

Valparaiso.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Valparaiso. And they had like it was a second or less or two seconds on the clock and it was a play that they said it was a, it was a pass out and I think it was Bryce Drew came in, took the pass and let it go right away.

[John Holberg]

It was amazing.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

That was amazing. Valpo. Now this is Yukon. Now what is amazing about that is they were down by what, 17?

[John Holberg]

Yeah.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

That's amazing. I.

[John Holberg]

It's an incredible story that, that makes

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

the story much better. And the shot much better.

[John Holberg]

At the end when Duke had 0.3 seconds.4 seconds left. And they lined up. I'm like, you brought it up.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holberg]

This is the Leitner shot again. Like they can do this again. They've got. Yeah, Duke can do this again. And I'm like, oh my God, they're going to break this, this kid's heart.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Did you see, did you guys mention the kid who hit the shot? He also made the steal?

[John Holberg]

Yeah, well, yeah, he batted the ball.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Well, he didn't. I don't battle. But he's the one that corralled it and then passed it to the guy who then he just got it right back to him.

[John Holberg]

Did you see Dan Hurley celebrating that and then go over to the ref and lay his forehead onto the ref's forehead?

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

I heard about. I didn't see anything.

[John Holberg]

Moment I've seen.

[Dave Nash]

I, I was that after that or was that earlier in the game?

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

That was it.

[John Holberg]

Right after the shot. He's celebrating his coats off. He looks and ref walks by and he bows up to him and drops his forehead right on him and kind of like does a little push and walks away.

[Dave Nash]

Really get teed up.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

I mean, and the ref did a good job.

[John Holberg]

Yeah. By letting the emotion be there.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

There's a lot going on at that time. I want to bring up point, the gambling point.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Because I didn't see the game because I was golfing.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

And I'M golfing with a guy who had a, you know, 314 parlay. And the. The last leg of it was UConn had to win by one to 10 points. Come on.

[Dave Nash]

He's giving up.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

He. Well, he did give up because he's. You have a buyout.

[John Holberg]

Yeah.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

And he took the buyout.

[John Holberg]

Oh. But never take the buyout. Why gamble if you want half?

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

I think at that point, Duke was up not even double digits, but they were up by seven, eight. And he's like, ah, this is not gonna happen or something. He said. And he just took the buyout.

[Dave Nash]

And you didn't call him names?

[John Holberg]

No. You had to kill him after?

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holberg]

Names.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

No, because I didn't. I didn't hear about it until after.

[Dave Nash]

Okay.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

I didn't hear about how the game ended till after.

[John Holberg]

And.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

And it's not like he just had you kind of win.

[John Holberg]

He.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

You know, you gotta win.

[John Holberg]

He had points.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Yeah. You had to win between a certain amount or whatever. And that was the. The payoff. But. But think about how much money.

[John Holberg]

Wow.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Changed hands.

[John Holberg]

Oh, yeah.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Yeah. On that shot.

[John Holberg]

How often that happens.

[Dave Nash]

Imagine being a guy who has a lot. A ton of money on whatever, and you're watching that shot in midair. What. What's going through your mouth?

[John Holberg]

It almost was like a video game when the ball glows. Like, there were the old NBA Jam game they'd shoot, and the ball was on fire. Like, you can't miss while it's on fire. It looked like that when it left his hand, I stood up and said, he hit that. I said it as it's in the perfect arch.

[Dave Nash]

You saw the rotate, everything.

[John Holberg]

It was such a great moment. And it makes me wonder, like, there are other moments that you drew Bryce. The thing from Duke. You think about what's the best one in NBA history. What's. And it's got to be. Jordan has three in the Finals. The Shannon Anderson against the Jazz. When he pushed off. Maybe that's the most remarkable moment I think, has ever been captured in basketball history. On picture. Sports Illustrated has the picture of Jordan. The ball's in the air. It's two pages. The ball's in the air. And Shannon Anderson, who he did shove away. That was the way the game was played then. Balls in the air. And I think the light. I don't remember if the red light was on yet or not. And it's not in. And every fan in the crowd is like, ah.

[Dave Nash]

Next picture.

[John Holberg]

The ball is through Jordan. And every, like, the. Like just diminished emotion it's all in like half a second of their lives coming crashing down. When that ball went through. Through the, through the.

[Dave Nash]

Well, I, I still remember when he had a shot against Cleveland Cavaliers and Eastern. Craig Elo. Yeah, Craig Elo.

[John Holberg]

Kevin Johnson, when, when Kerr hit the Suns in game six and you see Kevin Johnson look over his shoulder.

[Dave Nash]

It's heartbreaking.

[John Holberg]

Yes, it's heartbreaking. Those moments are incredible. It's why we love this.

[Dave Nash]

And I saw this recently because they were talking. They showed the, the parade after that.

[John Holberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

Steve Kerr hitting the shot and he tells the story. And I mean, I, I don't like Steve Kerr.

[John Holberg]

You don't.

[Dave Nash]

I do not like him.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

I'm right with him.

[John Holberg]

I like Steve Kerr.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Well, that makes sense. You're a moron. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dave Nash]

He's a pretty good basketball coach.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Where do we start?

[John Holberg]

He has political stuff.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah, we don't need him.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

It's not even that. Listen, at the time he came in here to the Phoenix Suns to become

[Dave Nash]

a gm, he ruined them.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

They were the.

[Dave Nash]

Well, they ruined them.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

They were the. What were they, seven seconds or eight score.

[John Holberg]

Seven seconds or less.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

And, and he said, you can't win like that.

[John Holberg]

They weren't.

[Dave Nash]

They have a chance every year.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Take away every year the bad call to Robert Ori Sotomayor. That's a, that's a BS call.

[John Holberg]

They may have still lost the game.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

No, they would have won.

[John Holberg]

You don't know.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

No, I do know that

[John Holberg]

you have ghost trophies of what could have been.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

No, but point is, they were always in it and they could. Next year. Could have been next year. He says, we're going to break this up. You can't win like this. He ruined the Suns. And then he went immediately to Golden State and played the basketball. He said, you can't win in, in.

[John Holberg]

In the greatest shooter in the history.

[Dave Nash]

Right. And that's why he went there and, and they, and they fired the coach before.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

He is the biggest. He is the biggest fraud since Bill Belichick.

[John Holberg]

This is just where your emotion gets in the way and you start hyperbole.

[Dave Nash]

But I, I just said this. I didn't want to bring up all these old wounds, but when they, they asked him, hey. To tell us a story, he said, well, this is my story. I'm sticking to. I said. And we sat down on the bench, there was a timeout, and, and Phil told Michael, hey, I want you to take the last shot. So we're working. And Michael looked at Phil, then looked at me and said, coach, I, I don't feel real comfortable taking this last shot. Why don't we let Steve turn the.

[John Holberg]

Oh, that's a great story.

[Dave Nash]

It's a great story, and they are.

[John Holberg]

My favorite thing Kerr ever did just to stay on it was his disdain for the ownership of the Suns was so strong that when they were terrible. And he came here and he said, I'm just going to let Draymond coach tonight. Do you remember that? No, he didn't. Even then, even. He let the coach or the players coach the team against the Sun.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

I'm sure they. Yeah, I'm sure they played better without him.

[Dave Nash]

Well, of course.

[John Holberg]

Because.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Because he's. He's a negative.

[John Holberg]

Oh, no, no. Deny.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

There's nothing I like about that. I go back to most overrated coach ever, and I hate Belichick.

[John Holberg]

God, more than Belichick.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Yeah. Yes.

[Dave Nash]

Okay, so let's.

[John Holberg]

So everybody with massive amounts of trophies,

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

terrible coach, right place, right time. That's all I can say.

[John Holberg]

Nobody's ever been a good enough coach to earn.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Not him.

[John Holberg]

He.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

You saw what he did here in Phoenix. He did.

[John Holberg]

Yeah. Maybe he learned from that and took his new knowledge somewhere else.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Okay, well, if he would have said, you know what? I screwed up in Phoenix. I saw the light. I never heard that out of his mouth. Not once. Not even. Not in print, not in. Not in video, audio, nothing. He's a. He is an.

[Dave Nash]

Oh, man. There's too much.

[John Holberg]

There's too much. Now you're talking about all this with the controversies of whatever in the NBA and what happened there with Jaden Ivy of the Bulls. I talked about this in my show this morning.

[Dave Nash]

Yes, you did. I heard you. And they.

[John Holberg]

I have an issue with the hypocrisy of inclusion. The word inclusion means everybody and everything, and that includes stuff you don't like.

[Dave Nash]

That's exactly what inclusive means.

[John Holberg]

That's what it means. And then the end. So if you don't know, Jaden Ivey of the Bulls put out a post or a tweet that basically said, he's not on board. I'm not going to paraphrase. I'm not on board. This whole LGBTQ thing, it's not a righteous lifestyle. Paraphrasing. That's essentially what he said. He was cut by the Bulls. And they're like, no, we are all about inclusivity and letting people live their lives, and everybody has to be treated fairly. And I'm like, well, you know, he's only rep. He's not being a jerk.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holberg]

He's not saying people who are gay are awful. He's saying that lifestyle goes against his belief system, which is Christianity. Now, I am an open atheist. I have no belief in anything. Right, but you have a right to say that. If they're forcing you to say, here's a lifestyle, you're not for the Suns games, they have Native American night, Mexican night, African American nights, Hispanic, which I don't know what the difference is. And China.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah, well, they have China.

[John Holberg]

I was there one night. They were Chinese night, celebrating something Chinese, whether it was New Year or not. And I was with a Korean friend, and they gave him tickets or two things to either like PF Chang's or Panda Express or something. I'm like, he's Korean. And they're like, we don't care. And I'm like, you don't even care what your. You just want a pattern.

[Dave Nash]

Want to check a box.

[John Holberg]

Barely check a box. And so if you're going to do that, you're not going to have Muslim night, you're not going to have Jewish night at all. You're dodging controversy and being inclusive on the. Look at me. We're inclusive.

[Dave Nash]

And guess what? When there have been teams who try to do a Christian night or something like that, and people will boycott, and

[John Holberg]

they're right to, because it has no business in the game.

[Dave Nash]

But if you're giving everybody a night.

[John Holberg]

But if you're being inclusive of all people, you have to say the fun thing, the fun thing about the word inclusive, when somebody's being a hypocrite is it usually is, oh, but we're inclusive. Except.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holberg]

Which is exclusive.

[Dave Nash]

Yes.

[John Holberg]

You were excluding people. So when the NBA got involved in this, it was like heavily. It was the COVID thing when they had all the. You know, when they're changing the world, they took their. Exactly. And they took their names off their jerseys with free. This. This is it. Okay. Knock it off.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holberg]

We don't come to you for that. And I hate to quote the lady from Fox News a few years ago, and she said, just shut up and dribble. She was right.

[Dave Nash]

But we go to sporting events to get away from the nonsense. We want to see competition. We want to see excitement. We don't want to stop. And now we got whatever group it is.

[John Holberg]

Now, here's the dangerous part of what we're in. And this is the NBA's fault for bringing it up in the first place and having inclusive night. Jaden Ivy now saying, well, I was just representing the virtues of the way I was raised.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holberg]

Better at this point, because now he's in his own hole, be living that lifestyle. Because what's going to happen to him now is, oh, well, you're out in Miami on the road games, banging three or four girls at a time, Suddenly your morality is choice and everything. So he's diving in. And it's all because of the beginnings of inclusive inclusivity, which has to step into a non hypocritical world. And it can't. You can't be.

[Dave Nash]

By definition, it's hypocritical.

[John Holberg]

Has to be. Like, inclusivity is not a thing when it comes to. It's just picking and choosing the people that you'll most offend by giving them a night and not caring so much about, you know, little Americans night. Where's that one? No, that. We don't care about that. No. So you're not being inclusive, you're being selective.

[Dave Nash]

Oh, they haven't raised enough noise.

[John Holberg]

Right?

[Dave Nash]

Enough money. Yes.

[John Holberg]

There's the bigger thing if they've got money, because I know for a fact there's been plenty of Jewish American people who have made an impact on basketball, whether it's on the floor or in the front office, as there have Native Americans right now. Granted, you're saying to the community, the Native American thing is a big deal, and it is, and they deserve that. But what it really is is an opportunity to change the uniform and sell some jerseys.

[Dave Nash]

All about money.

[John Holberg]

Yeah. And if you had the opportunity to do that with the Jewish people, people would lose their minds. With Catholics, Christians and whatever. Lose their minds. Muslims, they'd lose their minds. So you're being selective with your inclusivity, which is.

[Dave Nash]

Which is completely against what inclusive means.

[John Holberg]

It drives me nuts. And I don't know how we as fans can tell the NBA enough without being clear, because it doesn't mean Jaden Ivey is a bigot. It doesn't mean he hates people. It just means that this lifestyle, the way he was raised, isn't something. I know that if we came here and Nash was like, all right, today is LGBTQ day, and if you don't wear a rainbow shirt, it means you hate everybody.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holberg]

I would not wear the shirt. And I wouldn't participate.

[Dave Nash]

Neither would I.

[John Holberg]

Right. And it's not because I hate gay. I don't want to be forced into something that I'm like, I can't even relate to this.

[Dave Nash]

You do you.

[John Holberg]

Exactly.

[Dave Nash]

Don't make me do you.

[John Holberg]

Exactly. And don't make me do this by gaslighting me into bigotry and racism. If I don't to cut him again, will anybody be brave enough to pick him up?

[Dave Nash]

That will be interesting. Number one, what I would love, what I would love, love, love, love, love is for a Wemby to come out, say, I'm, I'm, I'm not, I'm not gonna participate.

[John Holberg]

I don't want to do this either.

[Dave Nash]

Cut me. Yeah, great point.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

We talked about this months ago. Travis Hunter came out and said, yeah. He said, I'm not, I'm not in on this.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holberg]

And I don't look, I'm not.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

I guess he's not Wemby.

[John Holberg]

No, no, he's not. Travis Hunter is a big name. Yeah. I'm not religious in any way, shape or form, but you have a right to be. And it isn't bad. But the inclusivity people make the religious people look like they're bigots by saying whatever.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holberg]

I can find all the flaws in the Bible to say, wow, that's pretty one sided, exclusive and hypocritical.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah. But if you want to sit down, if that's your goal to sit down and pick apart everybody.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Right.

[Dave Nash]

You can do that.

[John Holberg]

Right.

[Dave Nash]

But again, if you want to have, if you want to have lbgq, whatever, and they keep adding letters, that's fine. You do that. You do you.

[John Holberg]

But you allow it to be a night where you put some stuff on the screen but you. But if the players say, hey, I'm not going to get in the uniform and dance around, I'm not doing. You have to give them the respect saying, yeah, that's a conscientious objectors.

[Dave Nash]

Yes. What happened to those?

[John Holberg]

I'm not going to make a stink about it.

[Dave Nash]

No.

[John Holberg]

But don't force me to do this or I will. Any workplace in America that says it's gay day and says everyone has to pretend to be gay today is going to get in trouble.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holberg]

I don't understand.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Well, maybe they should, but nobody would

[John Holberg]

because the person that raises a stink is suddenly. But yeah, it's the NBA dove into this. We talked about it last week with the NFL and their end racism in the end zones. Like, knock it off, knock it. You're not changing the world with paint in an end zone or whatever else there is. But I'm curious if anyone. Jaden Ivey's decent. Is he good enough to take the heat right away? Because somebody could take a stance here and go, enough.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

I don't think. Well, what I read about it, I don't. He said, I don't care. I'm. I found myself and.

[John Holberg]

Yeah, well, he said, everybody's a liar. He goes, I'm. Because they're trying to paint him as a distraction of the team. He goes, nope. Ask any coach and any player. Yes, I was a really good teammate.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holberg]

I believe that. Maybe. I don't know. He might have been a jerk, but somebody would have said we wanted him off the team or that's fine by us.

[Dave Nash]

Somebody else would have come out, right.

[John Holberg]

Just by painting him as a bad guy. All he said was what he believes, and that's what inclusivity is.

[Dave Nash]

And you're going down or you're going down a deep, dark hole that I don't know.

[John Holberg]

If you come out of, you can't. And it's pre dug, so you step in it now everybody's in it. You're like, man, we got to. We're not clawing out. We have to stand in this. And, you know, fans are the ones that have to fix it. They're the ones that are gonna have to come out and go, that's enough. But they won't. No, because they won't listen to it. So long as there's groups with cash that threaten guillotines over people's heads to say, if you don't do this, we'll start making you look terrible.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holberg]

That's what the mob used to do.

[Dave Nash]

But you're. I don't care what night it is. And you don't disagree. I don't think you disagree with any nights. Well, have your night. Whatever.

[John Holberg]

I don't care.

[Dave Nash]

You're going to the game to watch the game. You're a Suns fan. You want to see a victory. You want to see. You're getting away for two, two and a half hours. You're going to the Rah Rah room. You're having fun. You're doing. Hey, you're not going. I'm supporting, right? Whatever night it is, I'm not going because.

[John Holberg]

No, it just happens to be part of it.

[Dave Nash]

Yes.

[John Holberg]

I'm just as excited. At Chick Fil a night I sat next to a Native American woman who loved. They painted the floor, you know, turquoise and had the headdress thing and all the symbolism, and I thought it looked cool. And she's losing her mind. And I'm like, she had a jersey and a sweatshirt she just bought.

[Dave Nash]

And I spent 150.

[John Holberg]

And I like the sweatshirt. I'm like, did you got that here? And she goes, yeah, I just got him. Like, how much was that? She goes, 95. And I'm like, that's actually not bad. Most sweatshirts at a arena are over 100 bucks. That's pretty good. Like, did you get a discount? No. Why?

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Like,

[John Holberg]

like, you should have. You should have gotten it for free. If they really cared, this would have been like yours with a little ID or whatever.

[Dave Nash]

Right? I approve it.

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[John Holberg]

I. I hate that kind of sports apocrypha. I hate what sports has become when it comes to that.

[Dave Nash]

Yes.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Is that sports apocrypha or is that just societal? Correct.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah, but it's sports come allowance aside to infiltrate it when we always, always thought sports was something. You got a release.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Yep.

[John Holberg]

It was the escape from it all. There's such a weird moment, and we all know it, where I don't care who and what you are, especially during the football season. I'll never forget walking into that Total wine in my Ben Roethlisberger jersey on a Sunday morning. I was gonna go grab some stuff for the game was at 2. So I'm like, I got time to go grab load up the fridge, get some beer and ready. I walk in and a dude in a charger jersey who looks pretty much exactly like me, I look like. And we looked at each other like, mm, we were playing the train.

[Dave Nash]

Oh, you're fighting.

[John Holberg]

Look at each other.

[Dave Nash]

Like, there he goes.

[John Holberg]

There's the enemy. Like, that's him. NBA is with Jade and Ivy. But the games are closing out. If you saw the Suns last night against Memphis. And the one thing I did think that was awesome about that. And what is awesome is the fans have abandoned the teams that have decided to start tanking.

[Dave Nash]

Yes.

[John Holberg]

There was no one at that game with the Suns and the Memphis Grizzlies and I mean no one. There might have been a thousand people in that arena. Wow.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

You were talking about how did we change. That's how you change it.

[John Holberg]

Yeah.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Stop spending your money, stop going. Stop watching it and things will change.

[John Holberg]

Did I tell you my theory on how to get the number one draft pick in the NBA? What?

[Dave Nash]

I know.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

I want to hear it.

[John Holberg]

You'll love this. Okay. So they're. They've. They have. I don't know if they have or if they have threatened to find the Utah Jazz this year for they're trying to.

[Dave Nash]

Trying everything.

[John Holberg]

Tanking is a scourge.

[Dave Nash]

Yes.

[John Holberg]

On the league. And it screws things up later because the Utah Jazz will not have a chance to be the spoiler because they just aren't trying. So let's say Utah's playing Denver in the last way. I don't know if the schedule. They played Denver the last week and there's a game difference between the three and four seed that Denver has to win. And the only thing Utah's got to play for in the entire year is that game. The line of great to good is so thin that anybody if they put their best effort out can give a run to it. Now Denver probably nine times out of 10 going to win. But now it's 10 out of 10. Utah's not even going to try. If it gets too close, they're going to pull the Suns. We're beating them by 35 points the other night and it's like. So we take the teams that have decided to guarantee they're not in the playoffs and all the others that don't make the playoffs and you have a side tournament and the winner gets the number one pick. You cannot tank, you cannot fake it. You can't be the worst and get the most chances. You play a tournament for opposite of the playoffs. Playoffs on some crazy cable network and just. Or regional or whatever. And every team plays like a five or five or six game tournament, round robin thing and round robin out. And you determine by points by, you know, just like you would. Champion gets the number one pick. Second team gets two, three, the final four get the top four. Then the lottery.

[Dave Nash]

I kind of like that.

[John Holberg]

Wait a minute.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

So you're saying if you're a fairly good team but you tank to get into this round robin playoff to get

[John Holberg]

into that, you would be an idiot to take to get into that because you can't. Like if you're, if you're an 11 and you tank to get out of the playoffs to be the 12 and assume you're just going to beat everybody and get that number one pick, you might not. Then you end up in that lottery and you're down in the last pick where you know you would have been anyway. So you might as well get the playoff revenue.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Well, it's as good as I've heard.

[John Holberg]

Yeah, it's a good idea and I'm sure there's ways to tweak it. But in order to avoid the tanking, you're not guaranteed a thing.

[Dave Nash]

You can you. So what you're. And this is the truth, you can say we'll fine you. We'll take a draft pick away if we.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

They don't care.

[Dave Nash]

Obviously that hasn't worked.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

No.

[Dave Nash]

The only thing I want to do, I do want to point out is the fact that yeah, fans stay away from these games. But understand like John, if you decide for some you're not doing it now, but you decided I got a boycott Sons games because they're not competing. Well, they already have your season ticket money. Yep. They don't care now, now again, will you re up next year?

[John Holberg]

It's already in a debate for next year.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holberg]

Because they raise the prices each year I've had them. And it's like, you know what, I'm kind of hanging out doing other things while I'm there.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holberg]

I love watching the games.

[Dave Nash]

Can you just get a membership to the Rah Rah Room and just go

[John Holberg]

to that and that's what you're on to it. Yeah, I can get in that arena and just kind of watch in there. I, I don't want to support bad basketball. And there's an awful lot of it.

[Dave Nash]

Yes.

[John Holberg]

And the Suns are fun to watch, but there's an awful lot of teams that roll through. You're like, this doesn't matter.

[Dave Nash]

No.

[John Holberg]

Like there's an awful lot of inconsequential basketball that's played more so than what they used to say back in the day with the 82, you know, 82 games. But teams were fighting all the time and you had those moments where the Suns were a four seed and then they had to go play, you know, then you go back and you're like, oh my God, they lost to the then Washington Bullets who weren't bad. We're like, oh my God, that's a game that. That's Going to hurt us later. Losing two really bad teams late in the season hurt. The Suns and Spurs played the very last game of the year once and the spurs won and went into the playoffs. And the sun, they gave it everything they've got and it didn't benefit them. They weren't going anywhere and they knew it. But you get some money.

[Dave Nash]

Well, it's the same thing. It's the same thing. The NFL, the one thing you've never had to worry about. Now the organization can try and make you devoid of talent, but you can't tell the guys that are playing to tank. It's football.

[John Holberg]

They'll get hurt. Yes. Yeah. No.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Well, I was trying to look and I can't find it that the NBA got together in a big meeting and they had three proposals for, for the tanking situation.

[Dave Nash]

Yes, they're trying to address.

[John Holberg]

But they're addressing it by addressing tanking and, and saying tanking is here to stay. So what do we do while they do it instead of coming up with a thing that deletes tanking as an option?

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Well, that's what gets rid of it. That's what they're coming. That's what coming up. One of the options was if, if you don't make what was. What is how many guy teams will

[John Holberg]

make 12 the playoffs? Yeah, it's 14.

[Dave Nash]

Well, it's 10 in each.

[John Holberg]

10 each? Yeah, kind of 10 or 20 now.

[Dave Nash]

Well, you got 10 or you got the four playing.

[John Holberg]

It's a singular playing game to start. But yeah.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

So that all those teams go into a hat and if you, if you barely miss the playoffs or you're the worst team by. You got same. You got the same chance of winning. And honestly I'd have, I'd be more okay with that.

[John Holberg]

I'm okay with teams that have tanked staying bad for a long time. They don't deserve to tank and be rewarded.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

You know, if you, if you have a lottery where you're pulling out a ping pong ball or.

[John Holberg]

Right, whatever.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Listen, that can be fixed all you want. So as the league. Well, I mean if you're working, hey, whatever team tanked the worst, I guess you're not going to win the ping pong ball.

[John Holberg]

Well, that's, it's almost the way you kind of borrow Europe's relegation thing and say, all right, you're in a secondary league now. Winner of this thing gets the number one pick next year. And it might be the very best team that had some injuries like the year that David Robinson got hurt and the spurs ended up drafting Tim Duncan.

[Dave Nash]

Yes.

[John Holberg]

Was a complete goof. They weren't supposed to be bad, but

[Dave Nash]

they run, got hurt and then Popovich came on board.

[John Holberg]

After that they had this, this, you know, this lucky strike of, of whatever. And back, way back in the 80s when the Sixers played the Celtics in the Eastern conference finals and they were battling out that ping pong ball thing through trade step, the number one and two picks. And I think that was when the Celtics drafted Lynn Bias and he died. But I mean they had the number one and two picks. They were already the two best teams in the east and they're laughing at the lottery thing.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

You just brought up Popovich, another coach who. Right place, right time.

[John Holberg]

Oh my God. Okay.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Because Eric Spoelstra before Wemby, before they hit it a big again with Wemby. What was, what was their winning percentage with Popovich? You would think the more experience he has, the better coach, better record.

[John Holberg]

You also know that a coach has been around for a long time. It gets a little bit discovered each and every year. It was hard to break popovich's code for 15 years. And what he did was remarkable. In a league that was trying to bash into everybody and figure out the new zone rules. He went European fundamental basketball. And it worked first there.

[Dave Nash]

Okay, so real quick, what they're trying to do, a couple of those things that you're. You're looking for.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Yes.

[Dave Nash]

To expand the lottery to 18 to 22 teams. Flatten the percentage. So if you have the worst record, you don't get right. That 12% opportunity. Right. And then here's an interesting one. It said freezing lottery positions at the trade deadline. Oh, there you go. So wherever you are at that point,

[John Holberg]

then people would tank the first half

[Dave Nash]

of the season, would they?

[John Holberg]

I mean, if you looked at your roster and knew, I mean you have to realize that teams like the Utah Jazz traded to be bad to get picks later.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holberg]

Mark Cuban just came out and said that the people he sold to were the wrong people to sell to. Object failure. That what he's done and what they're trying to do. And boy, you talk about a team that lucked out after their misery last year. Getting Cooper flag.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

For those that don't know, Mark Cuban owned the Dallas Mavericks.

[John Holberg]

That's right.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

And he sold to the Adelsons and now he's.

[Dave Nash]

I know.

[John Holberg]

We should, we should call this. Dave talks to the slower list. I get going too fast. I over referenced. He's not wrong. But Dave will talk to the slower listeners.

[Dave Nash]

They will Talk to his kind.

[John Holberg]

Yes, Dave will.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Yes, Dave, thank you.

[John Holberg]

But, yeah, we'll have IQ point. And that's sad, Dale. That's sad for you, Dave and everybody else. I watched this thing and you see the teams that tank are like blaming injuries and whatever else. And I want to tie this all back together. I saw a picture of Tiny Archibald. Nate Tiny Archibald. I'll say he was a player for the Celtics in the 70s and 80s. And then another one of Tree Rollins. Yeah, Tree Rollins played for the Atlanta Hawks and a couple other teams. I think it was six or.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

He was named Tree because he's very tall.

[John Holberg]

He's a giant man.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Giant man. Seven footer.

[John Holberg]

There are pictures of Nate Tiny Archibald on the court in the Celtics uniforms, I believe in the playoffs, wearing a neck brace. Tree Rollins is on the court any playoff game in a helmet. These dudes didn't play hurt. They played almost dead. And he wore the thing, the neck brace. Tiny did because somebody hit him in the jaw and maybe broke his jaw. And their best idea was, well, that'll keep it from moving around. And he was on the floor contributing. Anthony Davis is out because he ripped his fingernail off and he stayed out the whole year.

[Dave Nash]

And I understand this too, John, back then again. And I'm not. I am not a get off my lawn kind of guy.

[John Holberg]

I am. Why are you on my lawn?

[Dave Nash]

Right. It's just courtesy.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

It's okay.

[Dave Nash]

Well, okay. On my house lawn. Yes. Get off.

[John Holberg]

Of course.

[Dave Nash]

But. But I'm not. But these guys, the Charles Barclays, the Parishes, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, they got on American Airlines.

[John Holberg]

Yes.

[Dave Nash]

Flights catered to in coach. And you're in your. Waiting for your flight. You're not. You don't got your specially made jets.

[John Holberg]

No.

[Dave Nash]

That you. That you fly.

[John Holberg]

And they were heavy investments at the time. It wasn't what it is now. Where if you lose a guy for real, like, if, like this injury could lead to four more. I mean, you overanalyze a knee tweak and think, ah, it's going to lead to back. There's me. More knee. Jalen Green of the Suns earlier this year with his hamstring, first injury he's ever had. They babied that to a point. That got scary to where he came back. Like, I can't run the same.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holberg]

Like, he looked afraid to move because I think he'd been through so much rehab instead of what they used to do was just, you know, rub that thing down. Give you a couple days. Are you running now Cool. The best thing you can do is move that around.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Rub some dirt on it.

[John Holberg]

Yeah, rub some dirt on it. Now, don't, don't be stupid. Combine the two eras and say we were a little bit cavalier here. We're way over the top here. Somewhere in the middle.

[Dave Nash]

Somewhere in the middle. And that, that, that is the thing. Whether it's the. The nil and the. And the. And the transfer portal, where it was always coaches, coaches, coaches, coaches. And here's players, players, players. Never came here, never went from here.

[John Holberg]

Yep. Swung to here. That's a pendulum. It's just crazy. And what's, what's really crazy about it. And the fans should be really upset about this NCAA tournament, NBA playoffs coming up. Guys who will have these minor injuries, won't sit out for three weeks for the tournament. No playoffs. They can play.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holberg]

And I'm paying $121 a game, right. For my seats.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

How much?

[John Holberg]

1 20, 160 something dollars or. No, it's like $80 each. For each seat. Yeah. Which is not terrible. No, but. And they're good seats. But it was. But it's going up. And then you pay the little extras here and there, so it adds in. It's actually more per se, but that's kind of. Ticket price is 121per seat, but it breaks down with all the fees and stuff. So technically that's what it is at a hundred dollars a seat, let's say, yeah, I'm getting robbed of a guy who could be playing but doesn't feel like it because just in case.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holberg]

And that's not fair to fans and everything else. When you start to say, hey, fans, another 17, that's 300 sellouts in a row. It's like, do you hear yourself, right, when you're sitting here saying how many sellouts you have? And Jalen Green's not playing because there was a guy in 19. We talked about him this morning on my show. 1919 Cleveland Indians. His name is Ray Caldwell. You know, Dave, back in the day with baseball. I don't even know that they had bullpens or relief pitchers. You, you started the game, you finished the game. Pretty much almost every time.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Pretty much.

[John Holberg]

The classic example, not Tiny Archibald in a neck brace or Tree Rollins in a bike helmet is Ray Caldwell. Because he was in the ninth inning of a game when he was struck by lightning. And for six minutes he laid on the field, maybe dead, not sure. Didn't have the equipment to know.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Nobody went out there to check.

[John Holberg]

No, they checked on him. And they're like, well, we don't know what to do. He did just drop, like, wow.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Is he gonna get up or not? Come on.

[John Holberg]

Not only did he get up, he finished the game. And he won. It was the ninth inning. Ray Caldwell is the. I have not heard that story, man in history. Pitching against the Philadelphia Athletics in 1919, Ray Caldwell, struck by lightning in the ninth, laid on the field for six minutes. And the guys are like, he's up. Here's the ball. Let's go.

[Dave Nash]

Let's finish the game.

[John Holberg]

And he finished the game. He won. They were up only the ninth inning. Now, let me say this. It's only the ninth inning, but you were struck by lightning. So probably his fingertips and his toes look like joke cigars. And the guy just dusted it up.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Have you ever heard of anyone get struck by lightning and then six minutes later do anything?

[Dave Nash]

No.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Other than sit in a hospital bed.

[John Holberg]

Well, that's what we do now. Maybe it's not that bad. Maybe we've coddled lightning strikes a little heavy because this dude got up and finished the game.

[Dave Nash]

Finish the game. We'll go cauterize your fingertips afterwards.

[John Holberg]

I don't know that they didn't just take a branding iron and cauterize them right there on the field and go, are you awake? Because we fixed the bleeding.

[Dave Nash]

Why again?

[John Holberg]

These dudes can't play with a busted fingernail.

[Dave Nash]

This is 1985. It happened to me. I got my chin busted in the game. All right. Third down, got gun under me with a little thin chin, chin straps. Boom. It's smarted. It hurt. And now became fourth down. And so I have to snap.

[John Holberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

I. I bend over. It's a cool day. And I'm feeling. I feel stuff running on your face. Down my face. And I'm going, I'm not sweating that much. And so I'm white. I can't see now. And I'm like, oh, that's blood. Oh, my God. And I had to snap the ball.

[John Holberg]

With bloody hands.

[Dave Nash]

With bloody hands. Blood. Run. And I snap it. Run down there. Whatever. I go to the sideline. You know, they fixed it. Super glue. Sit down. I had a little goatee on. Whatever they said. Rubbing alcohol, staple. What do do do, do? Eight staples. And the doctor, as he's doing it, looking at me, going, this is better because it won't leave a scar.

[John Holberg]

Put me out.

[Dave Nash]

And I didn't miss it. I didn't miss the series.

[John Holberg]

And you're still a pussy. Because a guy got hit by lightning. Dale. And he finished the game. He didn't even get to go out off the field to go get staples or ice put on his fingers. He laid on the mound, struck by lightning. And by the way, if I'm that close to somebody who got struck by lightning, game's over for me.

[Dave Nash]

You're in the dugout, I'm gone.

[John Holberg]

But that dude just got struck by lightning. I'm not standing out there. Back in 1919, they're like, what are the odds of two of us getting hit? You're probably right.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

I would feel much safer if someone else got struck by lightning.

[John Holberg]

I travel with a friend of mine who was in a plane crash, and he lived. It was a big one. It was a big, like 737. Got hit by another plane on a Runway. Detroit.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

Wait a minute.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

It was already on the ground.

[John Holberg]

It was on the ground. A snowy day in a plane. Landed on. Landed on top. Oh, landed and the wing. Took off half the plane. And he woke up as people's heads were off and bloods. Yeah. It's a. It's the. It's a Northwest Airlines flight. And he survived it. And I love when he goes, hey, we're going to go. I'm like, I'm flying with you.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

I'm flying with you.

[John Holberg]

The odds of that plane not happening twice, it's a great story, and maybe you'll make it again, but it's crazy. Crazy. You look at that kind of stuff and you talk about the great Ray Caldwell. Look him up. It's a great.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

I just did.

[John Holberg]

The great Ray called. I'm going to have a.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

You know, that's when sports was worthy of stories.

[John Holberg]

Yes.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

You know how many stories are when

[John Holberg]

women couldn't vote and you and I are the same, Dave. That's right. That's when this country meant something. I won't argue the Black Sox scandal going on at the exact same time there's a dude fried up by lightning, for crying out loud, you guys. But it brought me to the idea of tying that somehow into what happened at the Diamondbacks game against the Tigers, the home opener. Now we'll get into the scoreboard, which I understand, you got to think there was something that happened in that game that baseball fans should know. Fans of sports should know and don't. It was a rare thing.

[Dave Nash]

Oh.

[John Holberg]

In the history of baseball Now, I've seen two reports. It's either 114 or 118 times there's been something called an immaculate inning, which is nine pitches, nine strikes, three strikeouts, and Sokolov for the Diamondbacks did it against the Tigers, I think it was in the fifth inning. His eighth, ninth and tenth strike out of the game through five innings. I mean, it was just a masterpiece. And how hard it is to do that without a guy chipping a ball off on oh, two.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Right.

[John Holberg]

That's all it takes. And you still can have three strikeouts, but that's your 10th pitch. It's not that it's an unbelievable thing. Now, aside from Ray Caldwell being struck by lightning, what is it that's rare that you would want to see in a game? Because there's some great ones. Fernando Tatis, seniors. The only person to ever have two grand slams in the same inning. The unassisted triple play has happened a few times. Perfect games. I think there's been. What is that, 24.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

There's about 20ish.

[John Holberg]

It's like 120. No hitters. Remember baseball started in 1880.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holberg]

Nine innings a game.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

You can't even count it till 1900.

[John Holberg]

Did I say 18?

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Well, but I mean, it was professional baseball. But those records don't.

[John Holberg]

But they don't stand. And you could have. And back then you probably would have had like 50 or 60 immaculate innings in a row, because there's the 7, 8, 9. Hitters probably weren't that great.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Certain pitchers pitched almost, you know, every other day.

[John Holberg]

But think of how much.

[Dave Nash]

125 years, 162 games a year. Yeah. Times nine innings.

[John Holberg]

Yeah. And if we're just going from 1900, when it started to kind of matter a little, where the rules were, but the ball was a little different, but still.

[Dave Nash]

Well, you know what's interesting? I didn't know this is what you're gonna go to, but I saw this over the weekend. I saw a little stat of most, most unbreakable records in baseball.

[John Holberg]

Yeah. To me, there's one for sure that can never get.

[Dave Nash]

And I wonder if we think.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Cy young.

[John Holberg]

Cy young. 525.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

511.

[John Holberg]

Oh, was it 511? He had 25 wins a season for 20 years.

[Dave Nash]

Okay.

[John Holberg]

That's what that would have to average out to actually 24 years. It's incredible.

[Dave Nash]

And you know the one that I believe is just stole Cold. Stole stone. Stone Cold. Not going to ever happen again. Cal Ripkens consecutive game streak. Yeah. Over 2,500 straight games.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Right.

[Dave Nash]

Guys take a day off.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

The fourth.

[Dave Nash]

You know, the fourth week of their rookie season.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Yeah.

[John Holberg]

You got to sit out a couple of days. I mean, last year with Marte, after the All Star Game, had to Take a couple of days off after the All Star break. Guys.

[Dave Nash]

I need a rest day. 2500 games again, you could say the home run record. Wow, that's so far out there. Maybe. No.

[John Holberg]

Well, I don't know that one. I think could. That could change. It just depends on how they build stadiums in the future.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Correct.

[Dave Nash]

You know, people thought Will Chamberlain scoring record and be. Oh, no matter. Touch that.

[John Holberg]

Yeah, you can touch them all. I don't think you can ever hit Cy Young. No, I don't think Cy Young's 24 0.1 wins per season for over 20 years is. And there's a great comedian named John Campanera, I believe it was used to do a thing about how in the hell did that happen? Like, were you on the honors system at the on Friday the guy would come up go, how many games you pitch this week? Side he's like, I don't know what 5. Did you win them? Yeah, I won all of them. Like there was no way that that that is real.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holberg]

They only played 120 games a year. He pitched every three days. The other ones are no hitters. 323 total no hitters. Immaculate innings is the ninth most rare thing to happen in baseball. And I know the number nine next to something doesn't impress people. But when you consider baseball as a statistics first game sure is number nine of things that you rarely get to see. And the crowd didn't react and there was no one saying what you just witnessed.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holberg]

Has only happened 112 other times.

[Dave Nash]

What do you mean that big? They mentioned it on the.

[John Holberg]

On the broadcast. Well, Steve Berthume in the broadcast goes that's an immaculate inning. And they went right to the commercial.

[Dave Nash]

Yes.

[John Holberg]

They talked a little bit about it. I don't know that in house. They didn't just. They should have stopped the game.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holberg]

You know, hey, ball goes to Sokolov. That's an amazing thing that you just did. Not that you're the best pitcher of all time.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

No.

[John Holberg]

And only good pitchers really, if you look at the list have done it. Really. It's a really weird thing. Like Chris Sales got a few strikeout guys ran.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Well, if you. If you can find guys that are really bad hitters and get them back to back to back, you got a better chance.

[John Holberg]

He had a pretty decent.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Got a better chance.

[John Holberg]

Baez.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Oh, yeah, that's a whiff machine.

[John Holberg]

Gleyber Torres. And then I forget who this other

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

guy was, but Rodriguez.

[John Holberg]

I mean everybody strikes Baez out.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Ramirez.

[John Holberg]

Yeah. You're Getting to. Yeah, that's it.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

One of those.

[John Holberg]

Yeah, you know, you're absolutely right. I don't remember it was but immaculate. A perfect game. It jumps to 24 times. Four home run games. There's been 18 of those unassisted. Triple play has happened 15 times.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

That's hard to do.

[John Holberg]

Yeah, I mean, just have your head in the game.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Unless you have really, really bad runners again.

[John Holberg]

Or you're just basically a line drive that just takes everyone by surprise. And the dude running off it has to be to third base almost every time. No, no, dude, running on the. On the. Hit on third base is probably going to jump fast.

[Dave Nash]

A line drive. Line drive catch on third base. Third base. Yeah.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

No, it's middle infielders. Because if you got guys running. Guys, guys, guys stealing a line drive up to shortstop or second base when everyone's stealing, you go over, catch the ball, touch second, touch the base runner. Thank you.

[John Holberg]

Even two grand slams in a game is only 13 times. And Fernando.

[Dave Nash]

So many things have to go.

[John Holberg]

Everything has to go perfectly. Fernando Tatis has two grand slams in the same inning.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holberg]

And he's the only one who's ever done it. But that was a pretty remarkable thing. And I. And I. And it made me think. And what's odd is my friend and I were just talking about this. What's the one thing in sports you've never seen a triple play? An inside the park grand slam. Those. And again, everything has to be so perfect. I mean, stars align, but that immaculate. Anything's on the list. And it's. It's up there to be.

[Dave Nash]

It kind of. Kind of slid by almost every notice.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Yeah, it was.

[John Holberg]

Well, it wasn't fanfare crazy. And I think it should have been a moment like, hey, guys, can't argue. We're looking for these.

[Dave Nash]

Well, it's all. Because maybe the. A lot of the fans couldn't see it because of the new. The new scoreboard.

[John Holberg]

I've heard the scoreboard was a little bit intrusive. It's huge on tv. It's huge.

[Dave Nash]

But no, it was.

[John Holberg]

The ribbon around has gotten in people's way.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holberg]

It dipped down too far.

[Dave Nash]

The first. The first rows, you can't see home plate.

[John Holberg]

Is it above?

[Dave Nash]

It's like. So you're in the first row of the second level and it comes up.

[John Holberg]

If you sit down, you can't see.

[Dave Nash]

You can't see it. So you either have to lean forward or whatever, see home plate. Who did that?

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

That again, measured wrong.

[John Holberg]

How do you.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Gosh darn it come back out there and measure. Remember that?

[Dave Nash]

Measure twice, cut once. That's the rule.

[John Holberg]

So they had that and nobody sat down and said, little high guy. Really? That's what I heard, that it was intrusive. I thought it was the lights.

[Dave Nash]

No. Well, they were bright.

[John Holberg]

They're booming. And they said something about the lights bothering fans in the front. I thought that meant off the bat.

[Dave Nash]

No, I saw some on wow. Twitter or whatever. You can see pictures. Mound out.

[John Holberg]

That's it. So it's cutting off quite a bit. Oh, geez.

[Dave Nash]

Most stuff happens around the plate.

[John Holberg]

Well, that's just flat stupid.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Unless I'm there.

[John Holberg]

Yeah. No, there's still some action. You're going to be the start of an immaculate inning.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

There you go.

[John Holberg]

The. Yeah, that's crazy. I didn't see it. Well, though, I'm sure they'll get that buttoned up in no time. Fans will pay for that.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

I never saw Macalon, but I saw a guy strike out five times in a game.

[John Holberg]

Golden sombrero plus one. The golden is four.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Not silver.

[John Holberg]

Silver's three. Golden's four.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Really?

[John Holberg]

Yeah, because you.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Very rare. What is it called? What's a five?

[Dave Nash]

That's. Wow.

[John Holberg]

That's. I think they call that the.

[Dave Nash]

Nash is the name. David Nash.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Now, I tell you what, if I, you know, I would be like. I don't like striking out. So I. I was a rare kind of a power hitter. If you want to say that. That I kind of choke up with two strikes. I want to just put the ball in place. Yeah, I. I just, I listen, I don't like striking out.

[Dave Nash]

No, but.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

But you know what? Some of my teammates, they.

[John Holberg]

They didn't.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

It sounded like they didn't mind it.

[John Holberg]

The women of Michigan didn't mind striking out with you, though.

[Dave Nash]

You know, it's so funny when you said that because it's been so long since I thought about this. I played baseball till I was a freshman in high school, but a little league, probably 7 years old. My mom tells me the story. I don't remember. It said, your dad tried to coach you one time, Dale, from the stands. You had two strikes on you and like minor league, legal league baseball. And he said, dale, choke up. You gotta choke up. You gotta choke up. And evidently I stepped out of the batter's box and I looked at him, I said, I am choking up. And my dad never said another word. Really? And then were you.

[John Holberg]

Or were you just being.

[Dave Nash]

No, I was choked up. I knew. I am. Shut up.

[John Holberg]

Yeah. Baseball in full swing. Though, and I, you know, just real quick with baseball. The sad thing is this will be the last year we have baseball for and it's just a four gun.

[Dave Nash]

And the Dodgers are so good.

[John Holberg]

It's just so out of control.

[Dave Nash]

The Dodgers probably will win another one and we will not see spring training next year.

[John Holberg]

It's going to, we're going to miss

[Dave Nash]

a lot of the season. Yes.

[John Holberg]

Going to be some heels dug in on this. So enjoy this year. Enjoy the Dodgers winning three in a row and wrecking the game financially and see if the Yankees can get involved in that or whoever makes the trade for Paul Skeens before the year's out, because that's going to happen.

[Dave Nash]

He's going to the Dodgers, probably Dodgers,

[John Holberg]

Yankees, maybe the Red Sox can involve.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

But can I pull out a conspiracy theory and say that baseball, they want the Dodgers to spend more and more money. They're actually giving them money to do it so that they can use that as a ploy during negotiations.

[John Holberg]

They would love that. Except for the fact that the Dodgers have the ratings for their games nationally. The only ones that register. And also back in Japan.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Oh, yeah.

[John Holberg]

So you forget you've got a 10 million person city in Tokyo that watches Dodger games more than Phoenix watches the Diamondbacks. Their numbers are huge.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holberg]

Major League Baseball looks at this like,

[Dave Nash]

all right, fine, but now, so $500

[John Holberg]

million on the team.

[Dave Nash]

And just so people understand, because I have explained this some of my friends, the fact that the difference between baseball and, say, football is the fact that the NFL, when they first started getting the tv, the big teams, the Giants and the big market said we're going to share equally. We're going to take the same piece of pie from TV in New York as Arizona, as Kansas City, as Green Bay, and the local preseason contracts there doesn't really matter.

[John Holberg]

It's a little extra gravy.

[Dave Nash]

Whereas in baseball, the Dollingers sign a local TV contract that's paying them millions upon millions and, and foreign rights. There are millions and millions. And you got the diamax who. What? Maybe they're getting a million dollars they

[John Holberg]

can barely get a network to hold.

[Dave Nash]

Yes.

[John Holberg]

Yeah. And it's. And it's, it's a big regional problem.

[Dave Nash]

Yes.

[John Holberg]

And they'll try to fix that with a salary cap. What they really need to do is just make it a national pool for broadcasting.

[Dave Nash]

Yes.

[John Holberg]

Let you spend whatever you want with no cap, but. Well, then splitting then.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

You're a socialist. I'm more of a capitalist.

[John Holberg]

I am too. All right, so, so Capitalism run amok in a business that's supposed to survive itself. Look, if we're a business and I'm, I'm at the head of it, and I'm paying you $10 million and him four to do the same job and you're not performing and he is, but you're the only one that I can get places. I need to balance that. This isn't about, like, each team doing better than the other. It's about the collective of Major League Baseball.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Small market teams can win if they're smart. You've got to be smarter.

[John Holberg]

Big market teams can win no matter what.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

That's correct.

[John Holberg]

And that if you're competing, if the Dodgers are trying to put the Royals out of business, what you're saying makes sense.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Yeah, but, but point is, if, if you have that many people that love the Dodgers, yeah, okay. They should have a better chance at winning because there's more people are going to be happier.

[John Holberg]

I don't disagree that they can still do that.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

It comes down to Milwaukee plane. What's another small.

[John Holberg]

Oh, almost all of them are small.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

All right, so, I mean, nobody really cares about that. But when you have a large fan

[John Holberg]

base, baseball wants that. I'm not saying it dies, but you take the TV revenue and split that dead even. You can't do local region. Everybody who makes what they make on TV goes into the baseball pool. You can still do your own advertising. You can still do your own, you know, merch, everything else. And Dodgers are going to kill. Cubs are going to kill, Yankees are. They're going to destroy with hat sales. And you don't share that. But when the TV revenue gets regionalized the way it has, The Dodgers have $500 million to spend and they're not batting an eye at it. Yeah, because they've got massive markets of their own, broadcast companies, you know, and it started with the Yankees and Red Sox, with the yes. Network and Nessen. They did it first. It's a. It's brilliant if you're trying to put other teams out of business, which is where Jerry Jones at first came in and said, I'm not doing this. And you're like, you're going to wreck it. Like, the packers can't survive if Dallas gets all the.

[Dave Nash]

And so he what, he came to the conclusion, yeah, we'll do the TV merchandise or the TV inventory the same. But guess what? I'm keeping my hat revenue.

[John Holberg]

Yeah. Some of this stuff belongs to me and I should be able to sell what I want in my own stadium, right? Make those deals on my own. Because it was like national Pepsi deal. And he got Dr. Pepper and they threw a fit.

[Dave Nash]

Yes. So it was Coke and he went to bed.

[John Holberg]

Yeah, I'm fine with whatever.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holberg]

When it comes to that.

[Dave Nash]

But when it comes, TV is a big overriding thing because the national TV

[John Holberg]

is like $10 billion for eight years or something like that from Fox. And now NBC and ESPN was involved for a while and they got to split that. But that's nothing compared to what's going to. You know, then that's. That's. You don't have to sell a ticket. You've just made your money.

[Dave Nash]

Each NFL team gets a check sometime in April for about $500 million.

[John Holberg]

Yeah. From TV.

[Dave Nash]

You've got every expense. Your salary cap, you've got every expense covered. You haven't sold a ticket. Parking space, beer, hot dog.

[John Holberg]

And the Diamondbacks spend it on gigantic screens that make it so you can't even watch the game. It's crazy. We get into the last couple things here. You brought up the nickname Iceman with Caleb Williams of the Bears. And you're a capitalist. It's a good idea for him to merchandise his name because he won that cold.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

I don't believe you should be able to trademark phrases, words.

[John Holberg]

Why not? Isn't that the whole point? Isn't everything trademarking a word?

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

How about I trademark John Holmberg?

[John Holberg]

Go ahead.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

The name. And then anytime you've already been trademarked,

[Dave Nash]

you'll run into a wall.

[John Holberg]

No, I mean, like, why not?

[Dave Nash]

Pat Riley™ 3 Pete.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

3 Pete.

[John Holberg]

You called me a capitalist or a socialist. China doesn't have trademarks on anything. So you can make callaway clubs there and sell them as callaway clubs, and they're not.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

That's true.

[John Holberg]

So if you start doing this with names now, the only problem I have with Caleb Williams saying he wants to

[Dave Nash]

be Iceman, he ain't Iceman.

[John Holberg]

He ain't George Gervin's Iceman.

[Dave Nash]

Yes. Anybody who's overthrown 40. Yeah.

[John Holberg]

But George didn't trademark Iceman.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah. No.

[John Holberg]

So George didn't have anybody in his corner. I used to hate it when Jake Plummer, they called him the Snake. It drove me crazy when he played for the Cardinals. They're like, jake the Snake. And I'm like, no, there's already one of those. You can't double down on a nickname. Kenny was this. Kenny Stabler was the Snake.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Quarterback for the.

[John Holberg]

For the Raiders. That's right. Quarterback for the Raiders. And I believe the Oilers are Saints. He Went on to other Oilers and Saints. Yeah, definitely. He's the Google now. But if you've got a nickname, If I was. If I was suddenly, you know, you know, John Diesel, you'd be like, hey, there's kind of a guy who's got that already. It's now in the TEMU version of a better nickname by a better player. You can't do that. And Caleb Williams can be Iceman, and George Gervin can't sue him because of the trademark that's on Gervin. But you shouldn't want to trademark it if you're like, oh, another guy's already.

[Dave Nash]

No. Once you feel kind of like, really,

[John Holberg]

you're a plag at that point. Give me a better nickname.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah. Yeah. You know what? Give me another year. I might do something else and I can trademark that.

[John Holberg]

I call him Blue Tips. Because of his fingernails.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

No, I just. I'm angry at Pat Riley for trademarking three people.

[Dave Nash]

Why?

[John Holberg]

I mean, he was smart. They were selling all those shirts the second that word was invented.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holberg]

The shirts that got sold. Bosworth. Brian Bosworth. God, tell them who that is.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Linebacker for Oklahoma. Oh, my. Sooners went on and then was in Seattle. Was embarrassed by Bo Jackson.

[John Holberg]

Had an okay career, but got run over.

[Dave Nash]

But how smart was this guy?

[John Holberg]

He trademarked hating him.

[Dave Nash]

Yes.

[John Holberg]

Against teams that played them and sold. Got in trouble by the NCAA because he was selling jerseys that, you know, crushed the boss. Kill the boss.

[Dave Nash]

People were buying. People were buying.

[John Holberg]

And he's, like, cool. He merchandised his own, like, disdain.

[Dave Nash]

Yes.

[John Holberg]

And made a fortune.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

The original bad guy.

[John Holberg]

Brilliant.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holberg]

And he played the, you know, the. The black hat.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holberg]

Floyd Mayweather used to do it. Like, he's played the black hat. Like, you want me to be the bad guy? Watch this. And he would sell more merch because of that. It's brilliant. But if the nickname already exists, like, you can't be Magic Davis. No, it's already there. But if Magic didn't trademark Magic Johnson, somebody doing it is smarter than him, but still kind of.

[Dave Nash]

That's weird.

[John Holberg]

Yeah, I agree. And then we get into the big news of the last week, and I've had a long feeling about this. It's time we talked about Tiger woods hair. His hair. What is going on with his hair? Here's what I know about this much about, but I know it's real. When you stop grooming or caring for yourself, you're a massively depressed person.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Well, I'm sure he is.

[John Holberg]

Tiger is. I'm sure he Is nobody is Tiger's friend right now. He's doing this, in my opinion, on purpose. Every time he has something monumental about to happen, he self sabotages. And it's. Last two times have been the same. He's wrecked his car, doing weird stuff for no reason. Now, the first one nearly killed him. And I think maybe half of them's like, good. Then he does the. Because he's got that internal drive. When you used to be the greatest thing on the planet and it was not debatable, there was nobody that. You're like, your brain can't work like ours does. And when that's taken away from you, whether it's because of your own behavior or because of time, injury, and anything else. Look, you've been through it, Dale. I've been through I don't know how many injuries you've had. I've got four surgeries. And when I was going through the pain part, it didn't take long for my brain to start going, this is not a life I want to live that much. Like chronic pain can destroy your brain more than it does your body.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holberg]

Tiger woods is huge. Nobody's talking about it. And I'm seeing Tiger Woods. Inner circle says he needs to grow up. Somebody needs to step up and look at Tiger and say, you're 50. You look like you're 75. Why aren't you combing your hair?

[Dave Nash]

Okay, but you're talking about looking at his mug shots.

[John Holberg]

He's. I know, but you look at him at any other time. He's not taking care of Tiger physically.

[Dave Nash]

He's trying, but I saw him in the t. In that TGL thing. Yeah, I. I've watched 20 minutes. Yeah, the indoor golfing. And he.

[John Holberg]

He's got a hat on.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah, he's got a hat on.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

What?

[John Holberg]

He was. It looks like he showered the other day. He was driving to go somewhere important, and that's what he looked at. Tiger's not. He might dress it up for the camera or have some people going, we gotta get some makeup on you. You look rough.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holberg]

But when he's just left to his own devices, you're seeing an incredibly depressed man who I think might be suicidal. That move he made. You know how hard it is to roll a car in a residential area,

[Dave Nash]

especially a Range Rover?

[John Holberg]

It's impossible. You have to almost try to do it.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

What you're forgetting is, I think because he was trying to set up that Tiger woods student driving school, and now that he's a little disappointed.

[John Holberg]

But the masters are a Week. Everybody's talking about his big comeback and everything else. And he might not have the confidence to say, I don't want to come in 34th. I don't want to barely make the cut or miss it. I don't want to be embarrassed by being me anymore. People. All he hears is, he used to be this or what happened to Tiger. Oh, I hope he has a. I hope he can. Everything is diminished to what he knows he is.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

He. He's a drug addict.

[John Holberg]

And there's that, too.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

But he's a drug addict on these pain prescription medications.

[John Holberg]

But there's that chronic pain, sneaking back.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

I get it.

[John Holberg]

And, man. And nobody is talking. Everybody's like, oh, I wish Tiger was this. I can't wait for him to get. Somebody needs to step in. He's the. We need to get him with Britney Spears. Those two would make each other really happy. Because what Tiger really used to love was hillbilly girls who worked at Perkins and playing golf. And he had both taken away from him.

[Dave Nash]

So. So here's. Here's the thing. And I told Steve who's made a bigger fall.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

John Daly or Tiger woods has no dui.

[John Holberg]

I sat next to John Daly at a spring training game. The other. He's fine. He's happy. He's got cancer. He got cancer. And he still seems pretty good.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Okay.

[John Holberg]

I mean, he fell down at a tournament a couple weeks ago in Tucson. Rolled right down the hill, got up and, like, Ray Caldwell just got up

[Dave Nash]

and finished the round.

[John Holberg]

Hit a cactus. Like, rolled into a cactus and got up. And John dailied his way through the rest of the day.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Old fashioned.

[Dave Nash]

So when you talk about prescription drugs, when I played. And maybe I'm out myself, maybe I'm not. Last five years of my career, it hurt.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

And my pregame routine was I would take a Darva set and I'd take a Vicodin.

[John Holberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

And I'd take a couple Advil Pluses, and I'd have a Tordol shot. Okay. None of those made me go. Because I wonder how people get hooked on. Yeah. None of them gave me a high.

[John Holberg]

No.

[Dave Nash]

They made my body feel better.

[John Holberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

Now, more recently, I had a face mask go down my shin.

[John Holberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

And fillet it open.

[John Holberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

And they gave me oxycodone.

[John Holberg]

Heroin.

[Dave Nash]

I took one. Yeah. And I got so disorientated. If I would have tried to get behind the wheel of a car.

[John Holberg]

Can you imagine.

[Dave Nash]

No. That. That I felt worse than any drunk I've ever had.

[John Holberg]

Now imagine that becoming your normal you

[Dave Nash]

adjust to it and you're like, oh, okay, I can now kind of.

[John Holberg]

And you feel pretty normal in that state. But driving. Still not a good idea.

[Dave Nash]

Can't.

[John Holberg]

Tiger's got. There's something really wrong that we're not seeing that everybody wants to place their hole. Oh, he's an idiot. Oh, he's drug addict. He's. There's a lot going on that. That is not being talked about with Tiger woods. And I, I for one feel terrible for him. I'm an empathetic human being.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Well, I would have felt terrible for him if he wasn't such a jackass.

[John Holberg]

He's not. Before he made the fall again, the greatest thing to ever walk on the planet in the world of golf. You're going to have an ego.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

I am. I'm.

[John Holberg]

People wanted him to be like us.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

He's not. I am not a fan of athletes that dismiss kids. One, then two dismiss fans because they're paying his salary. I'm not a fan of that right or wrong. Because listen, I was just a minor league player and having to sign autographs and this and, And I'm thinking as I'm signing who give who right?

[John Holberg]

What do you care?

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

But they. They just want to be.

[John Holberg]

It matters.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

They just want to be felt like they're. They're. They're part of the. So I get that.

[John Holberg]

And the Tiger didn't sign your chest that day.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

No, I didn't want any part of that. But. But. And I understand he's a billion times more responsibility, but what's the movies Spider man with. With great power becomes great responsibility. And he dismissed Spiderman.

[John Holberg]

I think it might have been true.

[Dave Nash]

Well, here's the other thing I say, you know about. About Tiger woods. As you sit there and you look at him, he was dominant when he was. Now we find out kind of messing up off the course. If you want to say doing.

[John Holberg]

Doing the same thing a lot of the other guys.

[Dave Nash]

And he was kind of a jerk.

[John Holberg]

Yeah. Well.

[Dave Nash]

And then all of a sudden he supposedly became a little bit nicer and they went on and he became not as dominant of a golfer. The thing that we'll never be able to put ourselves in. And there's a comedian named Sebastian Maniscalco. I love. Dude, does he come on your show?

[John Holberg]

I've golfed with him a couple times.

[Dave Nash]

Okay. Love him on stage. Yeah. And he's doing a Tiger woods bit. Hey, like, you know, the husband works at Home Depot and the wife works at Safeway and they're watching TV and. Yeah. And they show Tiger woods story. And the wife goes, you would never do that, would you? You would never cheat on me. The guy's sitting on a couch going, I work at Target. There's no. There's no six foot blonde walking up to me going, hey, not just one. You want a little bit of this? All of them. Yes.

[John Holberg]

And it's. And the one mistake that I think Tiger woods made was somebody told him, just be normal. Which is the worst advice he got. Because, like, I'm gonna have a wife and a couple of kids and I'm gonna look like you.

[Dave Nash]

Yes.

[John Holberg]

And I'm not you. My life doesn't do that.

[Dave Nash]

No.

[John Holberg]

And no man as powerful as he may be and stand. All of them. Muhammad Ali, Michael Jordan, Tiger woods, everybody that's hit that. You're the best of all time.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holberg]

Was a horrible person who didn't know how to handle human behavior when it ever.

[Dave Nash]

None of us would.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Come on.

[Dave Nash]

You wouldn't.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

No.

[Dave Nash]

Come on. You would be the biggest ass I've ever met. Even good at anything. You wouldn't sign an autograph?

[John Holberg]

No. This is. This is not about whether or not you're a normal ass or a terrible. It's just the way the world treats you. There's something to the idea of being in that position and not knowing. Your brain shouldn't be able to handle it. And people need to be understanding of that. But we don't get it. Well, it's like trying to imagine trigonometry when you've never been through math. It's just not a thing.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

I can't speak for football players because they're all idiots. But for. For golfers, everyone that came before Tiger, most of them were pretty.

[John Holberg]

Watch the movie. Dead Solid perfect. It came out in like 1988. It chronicled what goes on in the PGA behind the scenes.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

I get it.

[John Holberg]

And it was written by a pro golfer.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

I get it.

[John Holberg]

And it was. They were the worst behaved group of people ever.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Well, they are horrible.

[John Holberg]

Because. You know why you don't think that? Because they're buttoned up and they're. They're okay around and they look good in there. But on the. They're.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Part of your responsibility is to be a role model.

[John Holberg]

Of course.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Okay. So. Hey, and I understand Arnold Palmer, great role model.

[John Holberg]

Right now, what we know. That was way.

[Dave Nash]

Well, listen, before social media obviously caught

[John Holberg]

him, no one was looking.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Obviously. He wasn't called the King because of his golf. No, he was called the King because

[John Holberg]

he was a crusher.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

He. He got a Lot of women.

[John Holberg]

That's right.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

I get that.

[John Holberg]

Yeah.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

But. Okay, he didn't. He put that to the side.

[John Holberg]

He kept that off the radio.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Correct.

[John Holberg]

Yeah.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

And good for him.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

And.

[John Holberg]

Well, you can't do that nowadays. There's tmz.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Well, all right. So then you got. You got to run it. Right.

[John Holberg]

Then you got to make the machine individual.

[Dave Nash]

You have to be an independent individual. One thing I would love to be able to do, I don't want to be a part of it. Like, I would love to see the Dallas Cowboys of the 90s be the Dallas Cowboys of 2015-2025.

[John Holberg]

You guys been in jail.

[Dave Nash]

I would love to see Arnold Palmer be from 2000. 2025.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Yeah.

[John Holberg]

We should stop the debate of could this team beat the 1977 Raiders and start saying, would the Raiders of 77 last five minutes with social media, you know, a.

[Dave Nash]

And nobody ever really talks about Arnold Palmer, whatever he was, if he was living, if he was in his heyday, today.

[John Holberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

Would he be viewed the same?

[John Holberg]

No, because he projected an image. And everybody interviewed the image. Nobody interviewed. What else is it? Nobody was digging deep.

[Dave Nash]

And that's what Tiger. Tiger did driving a Chrysler or whatever.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Nobody's digging deep into anyone.

[John Holberg]

Other.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Other golfers or even athletes.

[Dave Nash]

They.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

You gotta step into them.

[John Holberg]

No, they follow poop. Tiger woods was banging a Perkins waitress and made the mistake of throwing her tampon out the window, and a reporter went and picked it up. That didn't happen to Arnold Palmer in 1960. What the reporter would have done is pick it up and Arnold doesn't need this laying around. And he'd have thrown it away and protected the image. For some reason, we decided to tear down our heroes now. Now. Like, try to used to be.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

You're right. You used to be.

[John Holberg]

Used to have to.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Gave everyone time and attention.

[John Holberg]

Of course, he played the role Tiger did not.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

So why would I protect Tiger? Because he's a jackass.

[John Holberg]

You don't have to protect him. But what we're saying is, like, look, Arnold probably was a jackass. Somebody out there thinks Arnold Palmer was.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Yeah, I've yet to hear about it.

[John Holberg]

Someone's husband thinks Arnold Palmer was a

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

jacket, you know, hey, my wife made

[John Holberg]

it with Arnold Palmer.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

There's nothing wrong with that.

[John Holberg]

I would watch that. I'm fine.

[Dave Nash]

Hold on. Did Tiger, like, scoff at you one time? No, it sounds personal.

[John Holberg]

Can I. Can I hear you say sounds personal?

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Hey, you can. You can talk all you want about Phil Mickelson doing this, that, this, that, but he portrays a good image and I'm for that.

[John Holberg]

But it's found out also that he's a hypocritical image that isn't exactly 100%. No one can resist to those fake images.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

100%.

[John Holberg]

But we put Tiger on a weird pedestal and he's probably had the hardest time of all of them.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

When you're in the public eye, you have to be that Persona because too many people follow these people and they go, oh, Tiger does it. So that's okay. I can do it.

[John Holberg]

But can't you give somebody the break of saying maybe he's a jerk because somebody else is portraying an image that he knows he's not? So it's best to just keep it quiet? Like if some, if, if there's a machine making your image and you're like, that's not me. I can't live up to this. So then you just stop talking to people. They're just, I'm gonna.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

And then now you can live up to it.

[John Holberg]

It.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

You can't.

[John Holberg]

It's really hard if it's not the image you're projecting that it's been sold.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

With great power comes great response.

[Dave Nash]

So he's just going to spew nonsense that he doesn't believe. Yeah. But let me tell you. And again, neither one of you would understand this, but I, I, I had to sign autographs at times, 100%.

[John Holberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

But when I hung out with Troy. Oh, the amount of nonsense that went on, the amount of rudeness that went on, the amount of things that people said and did towards him to try and get his attention.

[John Holberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

I probably wouldn't have been able to handle that very well.

[John Holberg]

I hung out with Randy Johnson one time.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holberg]

Never seen anything like it. And he and my co host Brady hung out with him once and they were in Yuma getting gas. They pulled over and got gas. Randy, I'm going to go inside and grab something. You want anything? He's in Yuma.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holberg]

The second he stepped out of the car, everybody went, that's Randy Johnson, right?

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holberg]

He couldn't make it into the quick trip without eight or nine people. And he eventually has to say, guys, come on, enough. He comes back and tells in the car, tells Brady. He goes, being 611 and having this physique is the reason I was as good as I was. I'd trade it for a day to be 6ft tall and have this kind of goal.

[Dave Nash]

Right. And again, what people don't understand is so they bum rush him and he just wants to get Gas.

[John Holberg]

He wants to grab a key.

[Dave Nash]

And so you might catch a Randy Johnson, a Troy Aikman, a Tiger Wood on a bad day. And just like you have a bad day and you want to flip somebody off, drive him down the 50 watt.

[John Holberg]

Now people do it like this.

[Dave Nash]

Yes.

[John Holberg]

Hey, it's Randy Johnson. You're like, come on on. Knock it off.

[Dave Nash]

And then. And then, boom.

[John Holberg]

Tmsy.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holberg]

You can't win.

[Dave Nash]

You would have sucked.

[John Holberg]

I'll just pipe down. Nash. Tiger woods is not the most overrated golfer of all time.

[Dave Nash]

No, he's okay.

[John Holberg]

Just making sure.

[Dave Nash]

We weren't going to get.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Definitely not. He. He. I think probably during his stretch, it was the greatest golfer of all time, including Jack Nicklaus.

[John Holberg]

There's no. To me. It's not even close. They changed golf courses because of him.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Well, they did because of Jack, too. So not settled down.

[John Holberg]

They didn't. They didn't do it the same way.

[Dave Nash]

They're an athlete and they change any aspect of your sport because of you.

[John Holberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

Whether it's Will Chamberlain and the dunk in college, whatever. If they change something because you were

[John Holberg]

too dominant over the best in the world. Yeah. And when they were putting trees out because Tiger's hitting it 40 yards longer than everybody else and put a tree there, he's got to figure it out. Jack was this. Let's get a little bit more meticulous. He wasn't out driving people by 40 yards. Not the way. Not that way. He was out driving people, but not by 40 yards. And he had. He had equivalents with him. He had got. And look, no, this doesn't mean Jack Nicholas is bad, but he wasn't as like, oh, my God, I've never seen anything like this before. He was upper echelon, the best of his time for sure, but he, he was passed on from the Ben Hogans and the guys.

[Dave Nash]

Okay, I. I think we should keep this

[John Holberg]

right very. Over we go. Five minutes. You got him Internet. Nothing. You're done. He's dry. He's been what he's got.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

But I didn't do my research going on.

[John Holberg]

You didn't do your research.

[Dave Nash]

You're on the plane for two and a half, three hours.

[John Holberg]

What are you doing on the plane?

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

I'll bring. I'll bring up a conspiracy theory.

[John Holberg]

All right, Just.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

I don't understand how Trump, before he was elected, went on and on and on about how he's. I can get us in Middle east wars. I was not going to get. He's not going to do that. He's not going to spend all this. He's not going to feed the military industrial complex and all of a sudden he is. And I just, I don't understand that. I think something's up.

[John Holberg]

Something's going on. Well, behind it.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

No, no, I, I, I always go back to why does someone change their mind again? I've talked to Dale about this. You can get hypnotized without being hypnotized and know it. And has someone got into him in meetings and somehow some sly way hypnotized. Say, we got to do this. We got. This is important. And he's forgotten all. I don't know. I don't get it. Because he swore up and down we were never going to do this, and now we're doing it and I don't understand it.

[John Holberg]

I just. Real matrix then I thought you were going to talk about, about that moonshot that's going off in a couple days. Tomorrow, in fact, April 1st.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

You mean the first time they're going to try to go to the moon?

[John Holberg]

Well, they're not landing on it. They're going to go around it and see some.

[Co-host (possibly Steve McCollum or another guest)]

Oh, we'll see. Okay.

[John Holberg]

For Dave Nash, Dale. Hell straight. My name is John Holger. We'll see you next time.