S E32: The Sports Thing Podcast w/Holmberg, Hellestrae And Nash - Episode 32 - 04-16-26

Summary

The Sports Thing Podcast w/Holmberg, Hellestrae & Nash

Episode 32 – April 17, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, John Holmberg (98 KUPD), three-time Super Bowl champion Dale Hellestrae, and Arizona media mainstay Dave Nash gather to break down the current sports landscape, focusing heavily on Arizona teams. The discussion navigates the Phoenix Suns' playoff hopes and fundamental challenges, NBA playoff narratives, the tradition and drama of the NHL playoffs, a deep dive into the Masters and golf technology, plus a lively segment on coaching controversy, and Nash’s signature conspiratorial flair with “Five Minutes with a Madman.” The episode is packed with bold opinions, firsthand experience, and plenty of laughs.

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Main Segment Breakdown

Phoenix Suns, Playoff Pressure & “The Devin Booker Problem”

[02:33–16:03]

• Suns’ Playoff Outlook:

  • The Suns finished the season as the 7-seed, lost their first play-in game, and must now face the Golden State Warriors.
  • Holmberg describes their year as overachieving based on preseason expectations.
  • Both Holmberg and Hellestrae argue the Suns lack a true “killer” and leader in high-pressure moments.

• Devin Booker Debate:

  • Hellestrae:

    "You're not going to win a championship with Devin Booker. You're just not, alone. No, at all. But you're paying him like he is that guy." [04:22]

  • Holmberg:

    "He’s got Kobe Bryant’s game, save for fourth quarter mentality. …Do you want the ball in Devin’s hands and does it scare the other team? No." [06:53–07:06]

  • Both suggest Booker might be better as a Pippen-type player rather than the lead “Jordan” star.

• Fan Expectations & Roster Outlook:

  • Hellestrae notes how exceeded expectations have reset what fans want, leading to possible dangerous overreactions if/when the team is eliminated.
  • A lack of draft picks, cap room, and star depth is cited as a key concern.
  • Holmberg:

    "I actually don't want them to beat Golden State because…the Oklahoma team is not going to take the first round lightly…The Suns will lose four games by 20+ points, get embarrassed out of the playoffs…" [10:00–10:35]

NBA Playoff Landscape

[16:03–24:13]

• LeBron James & The Lakers:

  • Hellestrae sees LeBron as the only 41-year-old with such production.
  • Acknowledges the Lakers could upset Houston but “not going any further than that.” [17:06]

• East vs. West Styles & Flopping:

  • Discussion on the East being more physical, West more prone to “flop-fest” play.
  • Holmberg:

    "I got frustrated watching the Olympics with all these pro players realizing they don't call this. You didn't see anybody hit the ground unless they got trucked." [23:36]

• Flopping and Practice Habits:

  • Hellestrae shares a coach's noncommittal response about actually practicing flopping, highlighting how ingrained it’s become.

NHL Playoffs – The Best Show in Sports?

[29:03–39:10]

• The Drama of the NHL Playoffs:

  • Holmberg praises the NHL postseason as “the best tournament in sports.”
  • Discusses how little separates top and bottom seeds—citing recent 8 over 1 upsets.
  • Nash explains the fervor:

    "Five on five hockey in the playoffs is a grind. You can go for a couple overtimes…and that’s a different make-up between hockey and basketball players." [31:36]

• Parity and Goalie Impact:

  • Playoff success can come down to a “hot goalie” amid otherwise balanced teams.
  • The difference between regular season and playoff overtime is noted (no more 3-on-3, extended sudden death periods).

• Surprises from Warm-Weather Markets:

  • Florida’s emergence as a hockey dynasty stuns the crew; debates break out about why warm-weather cities can thrive.

Masters Recap & “Rolling Back” Golf Technology

[39:10–52:56]

• Appreciating Difficult Course Conditions:

  • The hosts reflect on the technical demands of PGA courses versus public tracks.
  • Nash recounts:

    “When they set up a course for a major tournament...these pros are playing in conditions you can't understand." [42:52]

• The Distance Debate: Should Equipment Change?

  • Holmberg floats the idea of using traditional equipment or “dumbing down the ball” at the Masters.
  • Nash:

    “The Masters could make a golf ball that goes 90% of what a normal golf ball goes, everyone’s the same…You don’t have to change the equipment." [49:05]

  • Agreement that innovation has out-paced course design; consensus settles on changing the ball, not the clubs, for The Masters only.

• Broadcast Criticism:

  • The hosts wish more coverage was given to disaster holes and human drama, not just great shots.

Vrabel Sedona Controversy

[53:21–59:44]

• NFL Coach Mike Vrabel’s “Romantic” Getaway?
  • Reports surfaced about Vrabel, recently in Phoenix for NFL meetings, visiting the high-end Ambiente resort in Sedona—a spot the hosts agree is “not a bachelor destination.”
  • Holmberg:

    “That is not a place I would say, ‘Hey Dale, what say you and I head up and get a room at Ambiente’…It’s a romantic getaway.” [54:54]

  • Rumors and optics discussed; consensus is that Vrabel will be fine, but the involved female journalist stands to take the brunt of fallout.

Five Minutes With a Madman: The Charlie Kirk Event

[59:50–64:53]

• Nash’s Deep Dive on a National Shooting:

  • Nash and Hellestrae unpack the peculiarities of conservative figure Charlie Kirk’s shooting.

    “Charlie Kirk wasn't shot by Tyler Robinson. …the video evidence...if a bullet hits that tarp, you're going to see it move. Nothing moved behind him. …the blood was coming out his shirt, not his neck.” [60:33–61:14]

  • Citing a lack of crime scene tape and quick “paving over” of the site, they raise questions of a cover-up.
  • Holmberg and Hellestrae react with a mix of skeptical humor and intrigue.

• Conspiracy Talk and Closing Thoughts:

  • Nash:

    “Once you see it, you can’t unsee it and it will affect you…you probably shouldn’t want to know.” [64:21]

  • The group closes the main show reflecting on conspiracy theory rabbit holes—Holmberg expresses mock despair at his simple view of golf being shattered.

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Notable Quotes & Highlights

• “You're not going to win a championship with Devin Booker. You're just not...”
  — Dale Hellestrae, [04:22]

• “Devin has the ability to be Pippen. He can’t be Jordan.”
  — John Holmberg, [15:26]

• “Hockey is doing [figure skating]. But you have men chasing after you.”
  — Dale Hellestrae, [39:10]

• “The Masters could make a golf ball that goes 90%…then everyone’s the same.”
  — Dave Nash, [49:05]

• “That is not a place…for buddies. It is a couple’s dream. It’s not a place for a single guy…”
  — John Holmberg on Ambiente Resort, [56:09]

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Key Timestamps

• 02:33 – Phoenix Suns season review and play-in loss analysis
• 04:22 – "Devin Booker problem" explained
• 09:15 – Fan expectation reset for the Suns
• 16:03 – LeBron James' playoff potential at age 41
• 23:36 – NBA flopping and culture shift
• 29:03 – Why NHL Playoffs are the best tournament
• 39:10 – Masters recap; why golf on TV is mesmerizing
• 47:02 – Deep dive: Rolling back golf equipment debate
• 53:21 – Mike Vrabel's Sedona getaway controversy
• 59:50 – Five Minutes with a Madman: The Charlie Kirk event

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Tone & Personality

The conversation deftly balances sharp sports analysis with the hosts’ signature irreverence and chemistry. Hellestrae leans on old-school, playoff-warrior wisdom. Holmberg revels in pithy analogies and outsider observations. Nash delivers both earnest skepticism and comic relief, particularly in the conspiracy wrap-up.

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Summary Takeaway

Episode 32 is a dynamic, wide-ranging roundtable: The Suns are “good, not great” and hamstrung by the limits of their core. NBA styles, playoff promise, and officiating frustrations are lively topics, but nothing excites the crew like the chaos of the NHL playoffs and pondering how to preserve the magic of the Masters. Add in a dash of NFL rumor-mill and a full-on conspiratorial detour, and it's an essential listen for Arizona sports fans and anyone who loves strong sports radio energy.

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Transcript

[A]

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[C]

You're going to jail.

[A]

All right, let's just get it started then. Hello, everybody, my name is John Holmberg. Welcome to the sports thing, an arm of the John Holberg empire of podcasting. And we welcome you once again.

[C]

Which arm is.

[A]

It's a long, long arm. It's thick too. Anyway, we are here. I am from 98KUPD if you want to check it out. 98KUPD.com that's a good thing for you to do. I'm sitting with my friend Dale Hellistray, three time world champion of the Dallas Cowboys, way back in the Clinton administration, long time ago. Look it up. Wikipedia. I think it's on Wikipedia.

[C]

It might be.

[A]

You might have made it on actual encyclopedia. He's the co host of the main event with Steve McCollum and he just visits my show every Thursday. Also, the Angry Patriot joins us once again. It's Dave Nash, host of the Real Matrix as well, and also a madman.

[B]

And I would imagine you were my handler. Is that. Is that the way.

[A]

No, that's ridiculous. Sure. Please, I don't want anything. I'm not handling you.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Good lord. What are you asking?

[B]

Well, I don't know.

[A]

What.

[C]

I don't.

[A]

I don't know if you'd like me to handle you. It's going to.

[B]

I'm trying to.

[A]

Well, I just said you were here. Pleasant introduction.

[B]

It was very good.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

No, I'm just. I'm just circling back to videotaping these.

[A]

Why.

[B]

Why do we. Why do we need to be seen?

[C]

This is just.

[A]

We really don't.

[C]

Well, what I'm wondering about is I'm looking at this and why does your pea soup shirt match the outline of our show?

[B]

Yeah, because I'm color coordinated.

[A]

It's an awkward choice of shirt, but your eyes are popping. It looks good.

[B]

There's nothing on me.

[A]

Not every. Not okay. Okay.

[C]

There is a lot that pops your mouth. That's not the things you want to

[A]

pop things that used to pop anymore. Let's get right to it. Let's start off with what's going on. The NBA playoffs are about to get going locally here. These Phoenix suns held that seven seed for almost the entire 2026, half of the season.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Seemingly we're going to coast in as the seven seed. It comes with a play in game. No one has ever, in what is it, six years of this thing, ever lost the seed, lost the playoffs or bounced out in the playoffs.

[C]

That's the seventh seed.

[A]

You're the seventh seed going into the play and you get two home games guaranteed.

[C]

Right.

[A]

You're going to walk. Most people do it the first game. Suns did not. And they got beat by a team that's a little scary. Charles Barkley even said it on NBC and he's like, I don't like the Suns against Portland. And it showed. And they were beating them. 11 point lead with 9 minutes left. 8 point lead with 5 left. You're like, like, man, it's time for Portland to make a move. But sun should handle this. Dale has a theory.

[C]

Well, do a couple things. Number one, that I have not watched much of Portland this year.

[A]

Yeah, they're good.

[C]

That Evita kid.

[A]

Yeah, they're young. And you know the thing they've done which is amazing is overcome all that stuff that everybody's forgotten about that happened before the season. Their coach had to go.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

The whole franchise was in turmoil because of that. And they went out and got splitter and he coached them young. Strange team that you looked at and went, they're not going to win anything. And made them really competitive and kind of fun to watch.

[C]

They are. They are. If you're not playing against them.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I wish I watched more Portland games, but obviously we're here in Phoenix. You got season tickets. You're wearing the. Was that 1976?

[A]

I actually got it last year. It's a throwback. Vintage. Dale, you're gonna learn that.

[C]

And. And our focus is on the Phoenix Suns. And for the first. And I've been on this bandwagon for a year and a half at least. And a lot of people have been crushing me on. And that's Fine. I just, I have my opinion. You can agree with me, disagree with me. You're not going to win a championship with Devin Booker. You're just not alone. No, at all. Yeah, but you're paying him like he's. He is that guy. Yeah. You can't pay another guy to come along and be the A plus guy.

[A]

Double max player.

[C]

Yes. Yeah. And. And so that you pay double max to a player who's going. Going to lift you up. And Devin Booker has shown, if he has a sidekick a la Chris Paul, he can, he can definitely shine and become an A player. But when you count on him, especially in fourth quarters.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And it's starting to rear its ugly head and now other people are starting to take notice of it. This is now national conversation. Fourth quarter. He's going to have so much pressure on him Friday whenever they. This comes out. But Friday night against the Golden State Warriors, I think that he's going to wilt under that pressure. And if Golden State came out of their game healthy and that was a, that was a heck of a basketball game.

[A]

It was a physical.

[C]

Yes, physical. A lot of exertion and all that. If they come out of that healthy, Phoenix is going to be in for a wervling dervish.

[A]

But see, and that's the thing I look at with this, like the 7, 8, 9, 10 teams this year in the West. If you were to look at them, you'd say Phoenix was clearly the one that would probably handle the 8, 9 and 10. And then you start looking at what's going on the last couple months. The Suns are healthy again, but they haven't been for two months. They've been playing around.500 since mid February. They've been losing games they shouldn't have lost. They've been competitive in games and lost. And they're like, man, they're a couple of minutes of basketball away from having about five, six game swing, right. But they didn't. And there's a reason those games. Boston comes to mind. You had a couple of Toronto, that road trip where you lost like three San Antonio, you lost three or four games by a possession, Right. You don't have a killer. Devin Booker is good, really good, and he's consistent, but he's not a killer. And he's got, he's got Kobe Bryant's gain, save for fourth quarter mentality.

[C]

He's got Kobe Bryant's game physically.

[A]

That's what I meant. But that's what I mean. You get into the fourth quarter, do you want the Ball in Devin's hands and does it scare the other team?

[C]

No.

[A]

And the answer is no.

[C]

No.

[A]

If anything, you're like, ok, I'm glad it's in his hands because these other guys, Royce o' Neill has as many, you know, game winning shots. Dylan Brooks, Jalen Green, Dylan Brooks, these guys are all kind of even. And Booker is the same. I said a couple years ago, and not because of his play. Trading Devin Booker would have been the best thing for this franchise because they were out of draft picks, they'd spent all the money on Kevin Durant. It's like it just didn't work. So it's like, all right, start over. The fans don't want. And I think you said this on my show, the Luka Doncic thing where you trade the face of the franchise. It's too scary to the fan base.

[C]

Yes. Too scary to ownership about how the

[A]

fan base, they would lose their minds. And fairness to them, this city would lose their minds. We are an emotional town that hangs on way too long. Larry Fitzgerald, I mean, Shane Doane, there are constant, like guys who have been around who weren't winning you anything, but we loved them. And you got to get out of that mentality. I don't like that. You know, Dallas, it's going to go down as one of the worst trades ever, right? But they got lucky and ended up pulling the Cooper flag and people will forget that.

[B]

Was it lucky or was it there is that.

[C]

That's another show.

[A]

But yeah, you start looking at this and you're like, they're, they're exceeding expectations this year by even being a playoff team. Devin Booker's not a double max and you're not going to trade him unless he, like you said, if he goes off against Golden State and puts them in the playoffs and then just has this miraculous, I'm carrying this team, we might not win, but he's scoring 40 a night in Oklahoma because that's the team he'll end up playing, right? And he's like, look, I'm the king of this team and you can't stop me. We might lose. The same way Jordan did when he didn't have his support cast, the same way SGA did with the Thunder when they were coming on. But he's like, he's 30 a night no matter what. He's 30 plus and he's clutch. You don't want to be in a close game with this team, right?

[C]

And they, and they're in lines. And the thing is, and this brings up another quick question and get your thoughts. I know Dave's sitting this one out because they don't care about NBA.

[A]

He hates the NBA.

[B]

Chime in if I.

[A]

You can chime in if you. But I appreciate you sitting back going, this stinks.

[C]

Yeah. But here's an issue that's so fascinating to me because we've talked about it on, on the main event with Steve. The fact that the expectations, they're over under was 32 and a half wins and they got off to that fast start. Yeah. And all of a sudden they're winning in November and December and early January and they blew past 32 and a half early. Well now as a fan base, your expectations change completely. Where if you just said hey, if they win 40 games and miss the playoffs by one game, they're making progress next year. But they got to such a fast start. Now my expectations change and for the majority of the last six weeks they've had a chance to get the four seed.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Fifth seed or six seed.

[A]

They just didn't have the killer. No, they don't have the. And I don't expect them to. I don't look at them and say, oh, they should be kill. They shouldn't be there. So we have hit a ceiling. And I think fans need to. You're right. The expectations change. But think of where you were to where you are and just go, you know what, this is it. I actually don't want them to win. Well, I don't want them to beat Golden State because the train wreck that is heading, they're heading into playing Oklahoma. That Oklahoma team is not going to take the first round lightly. They're not going to look at this like we won a six game series with this team. They have the ability to put their foot on the gas pedal and push and the Suns will lose 4 games by 20 plus points, get embarrassed out of the playoffs and now you've got a new problem is that oh, we overachieved. So then do you knee jerk with moves that don't work? Do you start dancing around free agents that are going to come in and mess this thing up or like you said, it is a bit of a knee jerk to me to trade Devin Booker and try to see what you can get because if he doesn't perform, you can't trade a double max contract for anything.

[C]

You can't. No, you won't be able to. But here's the thing. Changes are going to have to be made just because of the fact this team, you watch them all year, your season take it over. They have so many, like, players, like so and so goes out. So and so goes same guy. Yeah. Same body, same build, same whatever. And there's like six of them on the team.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You don't have. You can't bring in like Portland would bring in, somebody who's now 6, 11 and a bruiser.

[A]

Well, the Suns will have that. Maliwak is going to be that. I've been next to him and he's a lot thicker than he looks on television. He's going.

[B]

And he's 19.

[A]

He's going to be a big kid. He's going to be a big man. I'm not worried about their future, but currently you're right. It's just. It's cookie cutter players that are overachieving. Dylan Brooks is a great addition. It adds some. But I look at this team like, just get out. You did great. Tip the cap.

[C]

So you want them to lose tomorrow?

[A]

I don't want them to be embarrassed this year and that's coming. I don't. I don't think that's good for a team psyche when they're way like, let them go. Ah, we almost did it. They'll be a little embarrassed getting bounced up. Nobody's going to remember a seven seed A screwing up.

[C]

Oh, yeah, they will.

[A]

They'll remember it for a little bit, like over the first ones that ever did it. They shouldn't have been there.

[C]

But for years, Cinderella has to go, Johnny. You know, for years to come, it'll be, yeah, only 17 C has been bounced out of the playoffs.

[A]

But as the coach or as the ownership, you say, hey, guys, we shouldn't have even been in this. It's a shame we didn't do this. We ran into a wall. The pumpkin came back. The carriage is a pumpkin. That's fine. What I don't want is what happened a few years ago with that team that had championship aspirations and wandered into Dallas and lost two games by 60 points in a row and they were done. Yeah, well, they had Covid and they came back. They came back. Yeah. But then they came back the next year and it happened again.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's like, oh, we don't know what's wrong with this. Something's wrong with this team. This is the first year in four years they're going to have the same coach in two years.

[C]

But I promise you, they do have a Devon problem. And we can get into it as offseason. Whether that offseason starts on Monday.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Or the offseason starts.

[A]

I'M rooting for it to start soon.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I do not want this team to go into Oklahoma City and play pretend. This is a good idea. You don't want to do that. You just don't want to take a team that's got all this youth that you're counting on for years to come to go get the Life Stomp.

[C]

But everybody says that's a playoff experience. We had to go in Dallas. We had to go get embarrassed by the Detroit Lions.

[A]

But you weren't embarrassed. You just lost and.

[C]

No, we were embarrassed. We lost 33 to three.

[A]

Yeah. Well, you were embarrassed. I guess that's fairly embarrassing. Yeah. To the Detroit Lions. In hindsight, that is embarrassing. But you guys were a year ahead of schedule.

[C]

We most definitely.

[B]

And had.

[A]

You had to do that four times.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You're not coming back the next year feeling great about your standing.

[C]

No. I understand where you're coming from. I guess it's the competitiveness in me that I think even though you might get swept, you could at least learn something, especially the young guy.

[A]

I don't know if you can learn anything because you do have a veteran face of the team. It's not like you've got an SGA who's only in his fourth or fifth year leading a bunch of young guys. Dylan Brooks is. You know, these guys have played. You've got guys on the team who have years under their belt and they're the leaders of the team. That is something where everybody else starts going, we're not good enough. Young guys. Look around. Go. We're going to run this back. With what?

[B]

Well, listen, you're going to be bringing in new players. New players.

[A]

But they don't have any money and they don't have any draft.

[C]

Yeah. So. So to bring in, what you're saying is. Yes, normally that's how it works.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And on top of Oklahoma City being the most dominant team, the Western Conference, they've also got a gazillion traffic. First round draft picks coming up.

[A]

I said, three years ago, trade Devon to the spurs or Oklahoma City. And everybody said, you're crazy. I'm like, it's just because you're a fan of his, just like him and he's very likable.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't think they can't. I don't think, like you said, they can't win one with him. I think if the piece comes in. That's right. But this is Devin Booker's choice. Like he said, I don't, like, build this team for me. He was part of this. Like he's there as the face of the franchise. Because Chris Paul kind of annoyed him a little bit.

[C]

Yeah. Because he probably asked. He probably got on him in the locker room.

[A]

But the Chris Paul thing was why they went to the championship.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

But you're only one away. And that year that they ended up going to the championship, they ended up getting Chris Paul. Everybody thought either a six seed, nice move. They're better than they were. But this. And again they turned into a great team.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Devin has the ability to be Pippin. He can't be Jordan. You're a Pippin or you're a Jordan.

[C]

Because the other thing I always in the back of my mind, I just remember him when they played the Olympics.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And Devin Booker took on the defensive side, the passing side, and he was great. He wasn't asked to be the leading

[A]

scorer because he's not when there's a bunch of superstars. Devin is an also ran.

[C]

Yes. And he fits that role really well.

[A]

But he gets paid as a superstar and I think that's where the sun's kind of riding.

[C]

He's looking forward to getting back up to Pine Canyon.

[A]

And you're just jealous.

[C]

Yeah, I kind of.

[A]

Let's get to the NBA. All the way around though, the Lakers are an odd joke because LeBron is suddenly like, all right, we're injured. If you need me to play, I will. And he's starting to be like the 41 year old Superman. Like the numbers he's putting up. The only guy who's ever put up the numbers. He's at 41. He's the only one even close. Kevin Willis averaged five points, Vince Carter averaged four. He's at 21.

[C]

But what I'm saying is LeBron James for the next six games.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I think he's going to hearken back to 30 year old LeBron James.

[A]

He's got to. This is his last run.

[C]

Yeah. And if they somehow some way can pull an upset on Houston, are you thinking the thing that he can put into his crown and huge and that

[A]

is a team they can beat.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

If Reeves, Luca, everybody kind of is, you know, at least on the radar for maybe.

[C]

Right?

[A]

Not necessarily. They're going to play, but you've got that hope LeBron can carry them against Houston. It ain't going any further than that.

[C]

Oh, no, I'm just talking about this first series.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

John, speaking of Luca, have you ever. You've had, you've been injured a lot for a guy who doesn't do Anything. It's true. Have you ever. Have you. You've had more hip joint replacements than I have.

[A]

More.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

That's not true.

[C]

And you stop. And you stop playing baseball as your Sport when you're 8 years old.

[A]

I played all of it. Go on, just keep swinging.

[C]

But would Trip allow you to fly to France to get some.

[A]

Oh, the stem cell stuff. Absolutely.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

That's the smartest thing in the world.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, run to the place that's doing the stuff we won't do and fix Peyton Manning. Kobe Bryant, Right. Was. He was never supposed to play, like, normal again. And whatever they stuffed in him is great. UFC fighters go down to Central America and get the stem cells. The authentic ones, not the American ones. They do the real baby stem cells. It's not. It's controversial, whatever, but it works. There's no. Peyton Manning wasn't supposed to move his head anymore. He played three more years, won a Super Bowl.

[C]

Right.

[A]

I mean, what they're doing over there is amazing. I have a story about a friend who was a comedian. The Amazing Jonathan was his name. And he had a residency in Vegas. And he had a. He was still alive. Massive drug problem. Massive drug problem. Diabetes. Treated his body terribly. Ended up with, like, a cancer. And his diabetes was so bad, they did documentaries of it saying, we're going to say goodbye to you. And he was going down to Mexico and Central America and doing these treatments. His toe was, like, gangrenous, so it kind of fell off. He took these stem cells. Dale. It grew back. No, it wasn't pretty. It looks like weird broccoli. But his toe grew back. Those things that, when they're alive and get assigned a position like this is what you build. He's still alive. They were gonna kill him years ago. I think he's still alive. He might not be, but this is a long time. They have documentaries to say goodbye to him.

[B]

Dale, you should get a membership.

[A]

You absolutely shouldn't.

[B]

It's on the end of the.

[A]

Yeah. It's unreal what they can do. So. Yes. Am I all for that? Would a coach that's smart. Would a team that's smart say, yeah, go over there and test this. You're going to get better faster. It works.

[C]

Watch him come back in Game 3 against Houston and be huge and be looking forward to.

[A]

It's a severe hamstring.

[C]

Right.

[A]

But this stuff. Dave's nodding because he's looked into this.

[B]

No, listen, I'm marketing director over at Summit Mill Medical Center. There's stuff that we would Love to offer that our government doesn't allow us to offer. They don't want you healthy. They don't want you living long. They don't want you sucking off the Social Security. They don't.

[A]

I did PRP and stem cell treatments when my shoulders went bad, but I did the American ones.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they are great for your health, they're great for immunity, they're great for all that. And they make you feel okay for a minute. They don't fix anything. The PRP can fix hair growth and things like that, but they cannot fix what actual stem cells will do, which is go rearrange. What's wrong now? I had a situation with arthritic shoulder that was not going to get better because it had hooks. But it's amazing what you can see with this. And they can assign it to a spot and say, go build this. So, yeah, would I send my player to France to go test the waters? If he says yes, I'm going.

[B]

But while we're there, if you don't want to go to France or anywhere else to do this and you just want the American version.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Because we can do anything there at Summit Mayo Medical Center, 080398, 1000 or

[A]

go to summitmillmedical.com and it's great. What you're doing is amazing. Very beneficial to your health. It's not what they're doing.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Theirs is steroids to yours. Yours is good, right? I mean, theirs is amazing.

[B]

We're handcuffed.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

No, it's not your fault. If you could do it, I know

[C]

you would be thrown.

[B]

Do you realize if. If a doctor prescribes HGH in true form to a patient in America, the doctor can go to prison for five years?

[A]

Really? I'm going to test that theory. I'm going to go try to get some of that real stuff this week. See if someone will do that.

[C]

And Johnny's tried to test things before, like the star on your, on your license plate or on your driver's license.

[A]

I got one finally.

[C]

Yeah, you did.

[A]

Yeah. Well, I gave in just because I got tired of it. But all you gotta do, that's still a scam.

[C]

He likes to test things.

[A]

It's still a scam because you can now. Now they just said, ah, we'll just give us 35 bucks, you'll get on the plane. Yeah, same. Yeah, we're not getting into that right now.

[B]

Not yet.

[A]

Not yet we will, but. Yeah. So the NBA, I mean, it's just a foregone conclusion. I think we're looking at OKC in San Antonio in the West. Pretty sure something would have to go horribly wrong. Denver might be a wrench, but that's about it. The Lakers maybe, but I don't see.

[C]

I don't see the. I see. I see them maybe beating Houston. Yeah, those guys come back like I said. And even if they're 50% of themselves.

[A]

Yeah. But the East, I have no idea. No, Boston probably. And that's amazing that they did what they did. Tatum out all year and to hold tight. Not only just stay in there, but to dominate.

[C]

Unlike Indiana, who.

[A]

Well, Indiana lost Halliburton and they haven't.

[C]

And they. And they just made a bunch of moves. Said we're just sitting it out.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

Boston hung in there.

[A]

Cleveland, Detroit. There's a lot of teams in the East.

[C]

Detroit. Detroit's fascinating me because it's been a long time since you mentioned Detroit. Just two to three years ago when good old Monty Horrible was there. They're the worst team to lead.

[A]

But what they did last year was to get over that hump. This year I expected them to be more dominant with who they have and they kind of are the same team they were last year.

[C]

Well, they're still number one in the East.

[A]

Yeah, but they're still kind of that same team. They're not that. Oh my God, we're not getting by this team. I look at the Knicks, I look at teams that can take Detroit down. The east is going to be what it used to be in the 90s, which is physical basketball. They are going to play hard. We'll see. I don't know who comes out of the East.

[C]

Well, obviously you can't play physical in the west because everybody hurls themselves backwards and get rewarded.

[B]

Why is that?

[A]

Why is the west so different than the East? Half these guys played on teams in the East. They come over to the west and it becomes this flop fest.

[C]

John, it's one of the most frustrating things to watch in the NBA to me is. And the Suns do it sometimes, but every team does it to where they practice. They literally practice. Guy bumps you and you throw yourself back. Now I'm thinking I might hit one of my. My teammates knees.

[A]

You can make a mess. Yes.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. All to draw a hopeful charge call I get. I got frustrated watching the Olympics with all these pro players realizing they don't call this. You didn't see anybody hit the ground in the Olympics unless they got trucked.

[C]

Right.

[A]

There was no flopping. And they call It. The Euro thing. Because Euros play international basketball. It's not. It's the American version of basketball.

[C]

Right.

[A]

They just flop all over.

[B]

It's the American version of European soccer.

[A]

Exactly. But that's what I'm saying. The Euros get the blame for bringing flopping to the NBA. They didn't.

[C]

No.

[A]

This is. This is a flop festival. And they play international ball. None of them hit the ground. And I'm like, make it a rule.

[C]

Like, I literally interviewed Bryce Drew, the coach at Grand Canyon University. Basketball coach. And. And I went to a couple other games and there was some flopping going on.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

And. And I asked him. We interview him every week. And I go, hey, Bryce, honest question. Do you guys have a flopping period?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, do you. Do you practice that? Do you practice a guy acting like he got hit and. And shoot. Try and draw foul? And do you practice hitting the ground? And you know what? Never really answered.

[A]

He didn't answer.

[C]

Kind of laughed a little bit.

[A]

And it's funny because I was talking. I want to talk about a group of people that want to be part of this show.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Tactical black. Tactical black self defense is one of the best things I've ever done in my life. There is a break fall class. You learn how to fall backwards.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Hit your head. And they do that.

[C]

And you say not hitch.

[A]

You do not. Yeah. So. And you, you know, we practice getting hit and you fall and arm breaks and break fall. It's a common kind of practice in martial arts and things like that. And I watch that and I'm like, oh, they do that same thing in the NBA. They're doing breakfast. They're doing a lot of the times because you don't want to fall on your wrists. They never do.

[C]

No. And you don't. And you don't ever see them slam their head.

[A]

They're usually just kind of elbows in down, and you kind of smack your fall and stop your upper body. And they're. And these guys are great at it, the NBA players. Are you hitting that. That wood? That's hard. That's not easy to just throw yourself into.

[C]

And so do we do. Is tactical black actually flying NBA teams in?

[A]

Jay Ackerman, who runs the place. Are you teaching the NBA? He's a former Bulls fan from back in Chicago. They had tickets to Jordan days. And he doesn't like the NBA at all anymore. He just can't watch it. No, he was just chucking threes and throwing themselves on the floor. And there's an argument to be made the NBA's big problem is I can't watch teams I'm not invested in outside of Oklahoma City. I love watching them play basketball.

[C]

I like to watch Denver.

[A]

Denver's a blast, but Denver's a complaint. Flop fest.

[C]

Yeah, they are.

[A]

But it's, it's just impossible to like a seven foot man getting hit by a six foot three dude and throwing himself backwards and he just got bumped. LeBron is one of the worst.

[C]

LeBron. I cannot argue. I'm a LeBron fan and I've always said this is an official. If I would officiate an NBA game and I saw that, I would look at the dude as I'm running down the court and saying, get your ass in the weight room. Yeah. If you get bumped by that dude and you're here, I understand it.

[A]

If Shaquille o' Neal was coming down the floor and hit Kevin Johnson and that's going to make some sense to me. It's like Kevin can throw himself.

[B]

I got killed.

[C]

But now Shaquille goes flying back.

[A]

And I remember watching a few giant guys get bounced off and they'd throw themselves backwards. It's like, come on. Yeah, I mentioned tactical Black. I want to bring them up again because they've got a thing I wanted to talk to you guys about too. And since they're part of this operation, God knows what they're thinking, but they

[C]

want to be part of it.

[A]

Self defense training is an unbelievable thing. They've got an active shooter seminar coming up on June 12th and I want you two to go to this. You want to talk about athleticism and work. They do training with military cops and everything else. The active shooter is unbelievable and you can be part of it. And all you have to do is go to tacticalblack.com and check that out. So I want to thank them for being part of this.

[C]

Now, hold on, I do have a question. Like if. Do they also work with people that are almost invalids but not quite to

[A]

80 year old people just passed their brown level test.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And they didn't. They're not giving them anything. Okay, you work, but it teaches. They teach you self defense and gun situations, knives, machetes, all that. It's an amazing thing and it changes your brain. And in the weird world we live in, man, it's in the back of everybody's brain that maybe this happens. This active shooter seminar, I'm telling you, is the most adrenalizing thing I've ever been to.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And it's available to everybody as you can Go, they'll talk to you.

[C]

How do you get, how do you

[A]

get a hold of just tactical black dot com? Give them a call, tell them you heard it here and let them know. But it is, it is eye opening experience, especially with that. And I've talked to you about this a million times. You know, give me one chance, I got one good punch left in me, right? And they teach street fighting, they teach all this stuff and it's all comboed up, but they do the breakfalls. And I looked at that the first day we were doing that and I'm like, this is NBA basketball. That's the first thing I thought. And it's a shame because the league is so filled with talent and you watch old basketball games in the 90s

[C]

and people who flopped were seriously a Detroit Chicago bowl game or Boston LA game back in the late 80s.

[A]

Imagine Larry Bird or Magic Johnson ever taking a hit and laying down and like the better play was from their back trying to draw whistles. No, no, no, no, I don't want any of that. Yeah, NBA's got a problem. You know who doesn't have a problem is the NHL. We have now entered. We have now entered in my opinion, and I'm not a. I don't follow the NHL during the season. In my opinion.

[B]

It's too bad.

[A]

And you know what? It's fantastic game. There's no question. It just doesn't play on tv. And we don't have a team here anymore. Although the one we do have is doing fairly well up there in Utah. Other than the March Madness, the NHL playoffs are the best tournament in sports.

[C]

Here's what I know. I'll let you talk more intricacies. But here's what I love about watching playoff hockey. Number one. It becomes more physical.

[A]

Oh yeah.

[C]

And there's no three on three overtime hockey and all that. And the teams are so close. It's not a surprise if an 8 upsets a 1.

[A]

What was it two years ago, Dave, when Boston had the greatest record in the history and they all bounced high. Florida who ended up winning the championship for the eight seed. Right. They went that.

[B]

I don't know if they want it that year, but they're three of they won the last two years.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

It is an amazing like lack of, of, of skill, depth and difference between one and eight.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And all you need, and we saw this in the Olympics is a goalie that decides now's my time and that's the NBA. You have a guy who you don't want the ball you know, this is like we said, Devin Booker, not necessarily going to scare anybody, but there's dudes like SGA and like, oh, he's got the ball, LeBron, you don't want to see these dudes. You just know we're in trouble. And if he misses, you're lucky.

[C]

Right?

[A]

Because it's not what you do, it's whether or not he beats you.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Hockey is the opposite. It's the guy in the net. And if he's on the ice and he's having, and he's on one, it doesn't matter what they're, they can go

[C]

on one for a month, five weeks.

[A]

Like Steve said, I didn't even realize how big the jump was. But the LA Kings can go from eight to two with points. And you don't realize that from, you know, find me another playoff thing where the two seed is as good as the last team in.

[C]

Right?

[A]

And nobody's saying, oh, this is a joke. It is close.

[B]

Well, the number one seed, the, the Vegas Knights in the Pacific, they have 95 points.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The Kings have 90. They're at eighth.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Vegas is in, in the one.

[A]

And the Kings did it with almost all ties and, and shootouts and stuff. If you look at their record, they

[B]

have 20 overtime games. That's an exciting thing to watch.

[A]

A lot of points.

[B]

You know what I, who doesn't like overtime?

[C]

Okay. But you tell the audience and inform me a little bit the difference between overtime hockey during the regular season and the playoffs. You know, I've been told there's a huge difference.

[B]

Well, I, I, you know, I'm, I'm guessing they're not going to three on three hockey.

[A]

No.

[B]

In the playoffs. So three and three hockey is just, it's a, it's a sprint to see, it's intense. Who can, who can score first? Control of the pucks so necessary. And it's five minutes and usually it ends up someone winning or losing that five minute overtime instead of going to the shootout to determine the winner and loser. But back to 5 and 5. Hockey in the, in the playoffs is, it's a grind. It's just a grind. And you can go for a couple overtimes and that's again, when you guys are talking basketball. It's one of the things that guys can't play 35 minutes in a basketball game. And, and you have guys playing a couple, two, three extra periods and they love that. That is, that is a different mental makeup between a hockey player and a basketball player. And honestly, I mean, I pick Hockey.

[C]

They're going to play, they're going to play two days later.

[A]

Oh, easily.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And they don't want off the ice. I mean it's, it's fun to watch. You look at teams like Colorado is, you got Buffalo in the east that's got, I think they're at 112 or

[C]

13 a long time since Buffalo's been

[A]

in the playoffs and well, Buffalo, Buffalo is a team that always gets in and always like, oh, it's been a while since they haven't, you know.

[B]

So I think it's, I think they, they haven't been in since 2014. So you're talking about 10 plus years where they were drafting very high. They're racking up these young kids that can play and it's finally paid off this year.

[A]

Well, and then to make some trades of those high picks and Michael and all the other people that they had that they had to move. The Golden Knights are a great team, but the Pacific Division is all banged up and you look at teams like, I don't know, the Avalanche, the Stars, these are the, these are the high end teams that are playing the NHL. And that's what makes it exciting is because the low teams, the Kings, the Ducks and these are the seven eight seeds, the Predators, Mammoth and all those guys that are there or the Mammoth actually they're going to be on that can beat them.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

It's a one goal disparity almost all the time. There are certain times when you're like, oh geez, this is bad. The Oilers are a team that have been waiting to get back again. Florida is back again. And as good as they've been in a long time, they. This is a dynasty with the, with, with Florida or I'm. What am I talking about? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Well, Florida's out of the Florida Panthers.

[A]

I'm thinking of the Hurricanes coming back. That's right. I'm thinking of the Hurricanes and Tampa is the one that I was thinking of the Florida team that's back and Florida is. What I meant to say is the state of Florida has become kind of a dynasty of hockey.

[C]

It's like, it's like Canada of hockey.

[A]

It's unreal.

[B]

Hey, if you're a hockey player, where would you rather play? Miami beach or Winnipeg?

[A]

I don't want to do either if I'm a hockey player. Like, I don't want to be in Florida at all if I'm a hockey player.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

Because the intensity disappears. These dudes need to be cold and miserable. That's Edmonton. You need to play. I don't look at that.

[B]

I disagree.

[A]

How have they done it? The Suns here in Phoenix are not a championship caliber franchise because of where they are.

[C]

No fact. This is the Most ridiculous.

[A]

Xavier McDaniel proved that point back in 1991 when they traded the toughest guy in basketball to the Suns. And the first day he did a photo shoot at the Phoenician resort and he became that guy. This is a resort town. It's amazing to have hockey going.

[B]

Dale, you have said this about football teams. I, I give you credit. I think that is a very good point. Teams in nice weather cities aren't you

[C]

A lot of times you adapt. I agree to your city you're in.

[B]

I don't see that in hockey. Come on. The Florida Panthers want the last two years on Miami beach and they play a frisky game.

[A]

And Tampa, Tampa was right before that a few years earlier, dominating. And then you look, Carolina's right in that mix and they're great this year. And that region of hockey has become incredible. People don't know this. Arizona's juniors won the Canadian Junior Hockey championship like two or three times in the last five years, six years. This doesn't make sense to me. Resort towns shouldn't be good at hockey at all.

[C]

Well, especially towns where you're playing hockey at 11 o' clock at night because you can't get ice time. Yeah. And practices. It's crazy times.

[A]

And so, yeah, I look at that. I think Tampa is one of those teams you're like, all right, this is. I'm looking at Florida. Florida's the hotbed of hockey.

[B]

Tampa might have the best. One of the best goalies in. He has one of the best goalies.

[A]

That's what it is in the NHL. That's where you.

[C]

I got a question for both of you who know way more about hockey than I do. Where did the term the goalie stands on his head come from?

[A]

That's a great one.

[B]

Well, I mean, the fact is he's making saves that you can imagine. Okay, so I mean, probably a guy

[A]

that actually stand on your head.

[C]

No. I could say no.

[B]

Most people can't. But that goalie is standing on his head because I can't get behind them.

[C]

I can't put ice skates on and get away from the wall. So I'm done.

[A]

Do yourself a favor though, and invest time in NHL playoffs.

[C]

Oh.

[A]

Because if you're a sports fan at all. And look, I mean, the amazing part is I forget the players Names every year. And then I go back to the playoffs. I'm like, oh my God, this is what I loved about this last year. And you start seeing teams well the more you watch.

[C]

And this is where I, I found myself. So get drafted by Buffalo. Yeah, my first four or five years I'm in Buffalo. Well, the Sabers were a big thing. So I started my wife. When I started going to hockey games, I didn't know a goal from any of the rules. Nothing, Nothing. You know, but you go to the game and we'd ask each other questions and people around us go, oh yeah, well, all sides is this. And yeah. And then it's not that tough.

[B]

There are some very simple rules.

[A]

Super easy.

[C]

Well, one of the biggest ones for me was why is that official? To have his hand up, but they're still playing. Yeah, gets it.

[A]

And next dude touches it, it goes out. But you still have a chance to score. It's like a three point play in

[B]

the NBA Again, what to the listeners of these guys that are just moving on without explaining. How do you not explain that is that is a delayed penalty. It's well known or offsides that if you the when you're attacking on offense, the puck has to go in first.

[A]

But I think he's talking about the other thing. The delayed penalty is when there is a penalty and the ref raises until the other team, like there's been a slashing or something until this gets touched by the team.

[B]

So during a penalty, the other team has to touch the puck first or you can continue to play to get a shot. But it's also about offsides. And they'll put his hand up and they'll say there's the offsides, that you have to clear that zone before you can go attack.

[A]

Hockey's rules are simple. You watch one game, have somebody talking to you. That's this.

[C]

That's I've been told because I've talked to Shane Dillon, I've talked to some people that there is strategy. And to me I'm like, it looks to me like all those guys are just flying towards pure cast. It's read and react and then you fly back.

[A]

It's where guys stand. It is absolutely positioning. It's getting, you know, movement in front of the strategy. Tons of it. But it does look like pure chaos. Pure chaos. And with that hockey, hockey players don't get the credit they deserve because they make what they're doing look so simple. And so the layman watching a game is like, oh, this is kind of boring sometimes they're like, it doesn't play on tv. I'm like, do you watch? Are you realizing what's happening with the human body? And I want to transition that into the Masters.

[C]

No, no, before you, before you go there. Because I want to say is people. The greatest thing that I heard trying to describe playing hockey is people watch the Winter Olympics and they see the skaters, they pirouette and they skate around and dance and it looks so beautiful. Well, hockey is doing that. But you have men chasing after you or running into you and you got to move a puck.

[A]

Breakneck speed. It's the speed, the agility, the athleticism. It's unmatched. And when you see it in its best form, which is the best eight teams in both conferences and there's obviously, there's going to be a hierarchy of who's better and who's worse. And you can run into a series where somebody just blows somebody out. But it's rare, right? And it's always great. But they make it look so easy. And I was saying the reason I want to transition that in the Masters. I was talking to somebody the other day and they said, oh, how do you even watch golf like that? I don't think you understand what these guys are doing. They're making this look so simple, it's boring. And that master's course that we just watched, Rory McElroy and I mean, what, seven guys were 10 under at one point in the. On the second I thought you could

[C]

be a five way tie. That was rude for that.

[A]

Amazing. But they're playing on a pool table. Try with your hand from five feet with a golf ball to just land it in the middle.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What they're doing is, I mean, if. And Dave, you've done it. You're a better golfer than anybody in here. And I've played on PGA ready courses the week they're playing.

[B]

Oh, it's outrageous.

[A]

You can't do it.

[C]

Well, real quick and then you guys talk. I played that. The Phoenix Open course.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Ten days before the tournament. Light rough. Light rough.

[A]

Oh my God.

[C]

Light rough.

[A]

Break your wrist.

[C]

And the, and the greens are. You break your hands trying to hit out. Where's my ball? You know, you're trying to find it. And that's light rough.

[A]

Yeah. And you hit like most of the fairways on a PGA ready course are like normal putting greens on a regular. Like Muni. Then you get on the putting green and it's this. And they're putting balls like within four feet and stopping them on a On what essentially is as hard or as slick as a pool table with a little bit of a thick felt, not much. And then to watch them putt. Rory McElroy put a putt on, was it 15 or 16 on Sunday? That was just. I mean, it was tracing the whole out edge of the green and then they roll back. Now, I understand these guys have been watching this for years and every of them study this course and they know, and even I know it at this point from watching as many Masters as I watched. They're like, oh, this is the one where you have to hit it way up high and it rolls back in. But they're putting it within a couple feet. It's unbelievably simple.

[B]

The other thing you're missing is that course is so hilly. I'm a, I, I'm. I was fairly good when I was younger. I played in a US Mid Amateur. Okay. And so, and when I played there, which is. Was at the Homestead in Florida. No, it's in Virginia.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Sam Snead played from.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Around there. And matter of fact, he was there on the driving range when we were, we were practicing. I've got to make Sam Sneed big thrill. But point is, it was raining a lot there and, and they're set up the course tough. But I remember going into the rough and pulling out just like a strand of grass that went up about a foot and a half.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, you know, the rain, they got away. But when, when they set up a course for a tournament, a large major tournament, and this is just an a.m. you know, it's just an amateur. These pros are playing in conditions that

[A]

you can't understand it.

[B]

No, you can't. And then, and then the thing about the Masters is those lies that they're hitting off of are so drastic. Uphill, downhill, it.

[A]

Think of this.

[B]

I'm a pretty good golfer. And those lies are just.

[A]

There's never been.

[B]

It's difficult.

[A]

This is the thing that amazed me on Sunday. There's never been a death in a golf tournament. Rory McElroy on 18 hits that driver off into the thing and they line him up to go up the 10th fairway to get him closer. Right. The entire gallery was standing, like, right where. And he's just got his clubs aimed right at him. First off, I don't know who's standing there thinking, just in case.

[B]

I don't think there's ever been a death, but I will tell you this. I heard of when the, the Ryder cup was. Was it in France? And Brooks Koepka hit a drive and. And the ball hit a spectator in the eyeball. But it.

[A]

Wasn't it one of those things where they were. But it was a long drive. They were sitting. It's not like we're. We're sitting here going, okay.

[B]

No, I get it. But the point is, there are injuries that happen.

[A]

Injury.

[C]

And.

[B]

And I don't think people that go out there realize that I'm smart enough to know that in those landing areas where I'm not standing there. No.

[A]

It's like buying a house on a golf course. You don't do it in the middle

[C]

of the fairway on the right side, 210 yards off the T. Done.

[A]

Your house is going to look like it's got acne. It's terrifying.

[B]

But.

[A]

Yeah, but I don't get. Like, Rory's good. Hundreds of people standing within a few feet, and he's looking over this thing, and he says he's got to. He could make the mist. They don't. They don't make mistakes. Hundreds of years of golf, and nobody gets killed just standing there staring at the golfer.

[B]

Not that we know. Someone probably got hit. We're just unaware. They haven't killed.

[A]

It's never been on tv.

[C]

No.

[B]

No.

[A]

Because I would have watched it.

[B]

That's the point when watching the Masters, Fred Couples made a nine on some holes. Someone. That Lee character, the. The China Chinese guy. I think he made a 10 on 15. Hey, I love watching the good shots. I want to see that.

[A]

Me, too.

[B]

I want to see every bit of that. How did he make that 10? I want to see how Freddie Couples, who was in the mix.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He went, I think, what. Quad double, double to end his day and was like, how did that happen? They didn't even mention it.

[A]

I'm not watching a guy who just went quad double. And he's lined up and I'm. I'm standing behind him like I would when you two. Just in case we tell one. And it's awful to think of that. That never happens. That's how good.

[C]

I want to ask Dave, because I think he's the only one who can do this.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

These guys are so good that they can put right spin, left spin on a ball. Correct.

[B]

Yeah. Easily.

[C]

Any. Any idea how you're. They're able to do that?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

I know you. And I can't do that. I can't do it.

[A]

I understand the physics of it. I don't understand how exactly to time that.

[B]

Yeah, No, I mean, if you want to I don't want to give a whole lesson.

[C]

I'm hitting 150 yard shot and I want a little right spin. I'm hitting the middle one, a little right spin.

[B]

So you don't want to take the club out and away. So your angle of attack is coming from outside to in. So as it's coming in that you're glancing off the ball a little bit, which is going to create that. That left to right spin. That's called a fade for a right handed hitter. And yeah, no, I can hit fades all day. A lot of people hit slices. And that's why I always think you should be able to figure out your game. Because if you're in a slice, just stop the thing you're doing, which is going from outside to in.

[A]

That makes sense to only people who are. Because right now what you need to do is tell Dale, nobody's a coach. But you keep closing your eyes and swinging and you seem to hit it. That's a win for you. That's all I got to do. What I do think, and I think we're going to disagree on this, is they're talking about because technology, equipment and the players have changed so much. The Masters course, 90 years. This year was the 90th Masters and they've changed it before. There's no more room to change the course.

[B]

Well, they could buy the whole town.

[A]

Well, they could, but they could make it. Then you kill the tradition of watch there.

[B]

100%.

[A]

I get that. So they're talking now instead of another adjustment to the course, adjusting the equipment.

[B]

They've been talking about that for at least.

[A]

This is the most serious they've been.

[B]

No, I think they're more serious before.

[A]

Well, you know, when Tiger was doing stuff that no one else was doing. But now that everyone can go 3, 4, 40 when they choose and you've got.

[B]

Or longer.

[A]

Or longer. Yeah, you've got that par four that runs 350 something and got.

[B]

Drove the green.

[A]

Rory drove it. Other guys drove it.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

I don't. I'm not totally against the idea of kind of dumbing down just the Masters to. Here's the reason why. Oh, the traditional equipment being used might be interesting.

[B]

I'm with you 100%. And the key you said was for the Masters.

[A]

Just the Masters for professionals. Yeah.

[B]

Four major champions.

[A]

We play a traditional round with traditional equipment.

[B]

See, the. The point is though, they want to roll it back for everyone. Yeah. Because there's a thing called by purification, which, which, which is they do not want Two sets of rules, one for professionals and one for the 99.9999 of all of us. And. And for the 99% of us, hey, we like to hit it further, and we like to be able to play better and make the game easier. And unfortunately, some of these guys are saying they should roll the thing back because they don't want to have different rules. And when they start talking about that, I am beside myself.

[A]

I don't want the whole game changed.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

The Masters isn't one that I would be against saying, all right, we're just the metal.

[C]

You can't.

[A]

Yeah, let's change.

[B]

And the Masters should be the leaders in that.

[A]

Instead.

[B]

Instead of saying, hey, everyone should roll back your equipment and balls.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Hey, just right there. And. And what pro is going to say, you know, I'm not going to want to play this because they're not allowing me to play my equipment.

[A]

It's the same as a fu. As a AAA guy coming out of. You know, and you go into college, you're using the aluminum bats. You gotta. You got to adjust to the equipment because it would be too dangerous otherwise.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Not saying it's dangerous in golf, but it's more interesting to me to say, all right. If it's all about statistics from the past that were comping Nicholas's numbers to this, he never played with this stuff.

[C]

No. He's hitting persimmons.

[A]

Could.

[B]

The Masters could make a golf ball.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That goes 90% of what a normal golf ball goes everyone. And they could make enough for everyone. Say you're playing this golf ball. Forget about your. Your ball contract with Titleist.

[A]

Right. There's none of that.

[B]

You're playing this ball. Everyone's the same. You don't even have to change the equipment.

[C]

Well, that's why. Change the ball. I don't think. I think you just change the ball.

[A]

Correct.

[C]

I don't think you needed to worry about equipment. Let them play their.

[A]

I would rather, though, if you're going to make those types of changes, make it. So it's the exact same thing the Masters has always had. And it's tough now because you've had so many years of the equipment. Correct. But if you went back and said, hey, look, here's what we're going to do, because the court, we've outgrown the course. It's a NASCAR and, And. And Indy. You know, it used to be push it, push it, push it until they could push it too far. And they're like, now we got to governor this. Yes.

[C]

You know, and.

[A]

And so we're at a point with the Masters where you look. Let's govern a little bit.

[C]

Govern the ball.

[B]

No doubt.

[A]

About 100. Yeah. And I think that would be really interesting to the average fan to watch these guys hit with wood clubs.

[C]

And I think that's too drastic maybe I think to ask a guy to play the granddaddy of them all and most people's opinion in the mess with. For Simmon woods and we don't have

[A]

to go back then.

[B]

Sure, they could do it.

[A]

They could do it.

[B]

100.

[A]

They could do it.

[C]

I think you can accomplish that with just a standard ball.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Probably.

[B]

Oh, you can not probably. Definitely.

[A]

Well, you can. You can dumb the ball.

[B]

You can manufacture a ball to go that. That. That's what range balls are.

[A]

Yes. Far. They're dumb.

[C]

Right.

[B]

They're dumb down. So you could. You could manufacture a ball that still has the capabilities of spinning enough so that they can. They can accurately land their ball and know what it's going to do when it. When after. They could get balls ahead of time to practice with that, whatever. But you could roll that back, make everyone play it. And the problem is. Love that to me, the gutless leaders at Augusta like Fred Ridley, just say do it. You don't stop asking the USGA to bastardize their rules. Just.

[A]

Just do it. You're the Masters.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

You have all the level.

[B]

Anything you say they're going to do and they.

[C]

And there might be one dude that says, I do. Okay, fine, you're out.

[A]

You're not playing the master.

[B]

Enjoy it on tv.

[C]

It's great to watch the thing. Just because you alter the ball. Yeah. Roy's still going to hit it further than the next guy, but he's going to hit it. 300.

[A]

Like Dave said. Alter it all you want. They'll be fine. Wooden clubs, the old persimmons and everything else. You give these guys three days to work on it, they'll be fine. And the ones who aren't will be frustrated and it'll be more interesting and you'll have a guy who doesn't. Who can't keep up. Suddenly he's in the mix. It's just an interesting thing to say. Like the Masters is so tradition. A tradition like no other.

[C]

It is. But hey. And that goes on because both of you said it. I want to see that 11.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

There's a lot of criticism of the Masters tournament. I saw Kevin Kisner come out and talk about it. He was watching it on. You can watch it on masters.com and then the CBS coverage. Five minutes behind. Five minutes behind. And missing so many shots in that tournament.

[A]

Well, that's a tough one. There's a lot going. There's a lot going.

[B]

And that's where I would like to see a little bit of that or at least highlight somewhere where here's some disasters that happened. Now, they don't do that because they don't want to embarrass the golfers. They did show one guy and I forgot who it was. I thought he was. I thought it was maybe that Japanese guy or maybe it was Korean or something. Who.

[A]

He's one of those.

[B]

I can't.

[A]

You don't know what he is? Well, he's an Asian performer.

[B]

He wasn't white.

[A]

Oh, good lord.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Go on.

[B]

Point is he bladed one into the water on. On 15.

[A]

It makes you feel good.

[B]

They showed that.

[A]

It makes us feel good.

[B]

It was like my wife was watching. Goes. I've never seen that.

[A]

Yeah, because it's not something that happens.

[B]

But. But when guy. When guys start making nines and tens, some kind of car accident is happening up there again.

[A]

And I want to see that nascar. All right, let's get into some controversies before we go. Quick, your take on Mike Vrabel, Dale. Now, here's the thing. Mike Vrabel. Mike Vrabel, coach of the Patriots, ends up here at the NFL meetings, which is in a beautiful downtown Phoenix at the Biltmore. And he decides on his day off he's gonna run up to Sedona, right?

[B]

Yeah, you please keep explaining.

[C]

Two hours. He's gonna.

[A]

Two hours, right? He's gonna pop up. Sedona's beautiful. Everybody's here for a weekend. Nice weekend. He's at a resort called Ambiente.

[C]

And of the three of us, one of us have been there.

[A]

That would be. I've been to Ambiente a couple of times.

[B]

Of course you have.

[A]

Each room is its own house and it's glass. It's one of the coolest things you've ever seen. Now, I wasn't a fan of the layout of the room myself, but that's just a personal critique. The views are incredible. And each. Each. It isn't a hotel in that. It's door to door and we're all connected. Everything is separate. On top of each room is about a 900 square foot deck. Awesome. And then you get the little parapet wall. You can see over. You see the beautiful sights of Sedona. Depending on where you are, there's Higher level ones cost a little more mid level lower. But you still get gorgeous views. You're close to the trails and things like that. That is not a place that I would say. Hey, Dale, what say you and I head up to Sedona, play a little golf? Take my jeep out into the thing. I'll get us a room at Ambiente. Yeah, no, it's one bed aimed out in the most beautiful thing you've ever seen. Out your windows, every direction. It's a very romantic spot. So for you to even have someone in your room.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

I don't want to make accusations. I don't know what's going on.

[C]

Like none of us would. Because I heard they go for $4,000.

[A]

2,400 dol. Like that.

[B]

Well, for.

[A]

For John, he's always asking for deals.

[B]

He's got the douchebag special.

[A]

No, that's. And I stayed there. When? The first. The first time I stayed, it was pretty brand new. It was like 17 or 1800 a night. And then the next time I checked, it was like 26. It's gone.

[C]

Nothing.

[A]

But it's skyrocketing. The demand's huge.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

But it's a romantic getaway.

[B]

That's. You said it right. It's a romantic getaway.

[A]

Don't even want to get caught there.

[B]

What's. What's Rabel doing there alone?

[A]

You don't even want to like dinner with a friend? No, if it's opposite sex. If you.

[C]

Especially if you're somebody, like. Yeah, if you're there. I doubt there's somebody hiding in the bushes.

[B]

Probably.

[A]

I mean, once they see, they're like any photos? Ex football player Mike Brable's not the most attractive guy at this point, but it's somebody.

[B]

Oh, listen, Super Bowl. I'm looking at two guys that are way worse looking than he is.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

But still, he's somebody.

[A]

He's got a. Manage that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Now if. Even if I'm up there by myself, I'm not. I'm not staying at Ambiante alone either. No, it's. It's a romantic getaway.

[C]

It is a.

[A]

It is a couple's dream.

[C]

It's not a place for a single guy just to go to relax.

[A]

Not at all A place for buddies. The only thing maybe would be like the divorced 40 year old girls getting their groove back. Might share a room.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

It's a. It's. It is not a guy place. And if you are there by yourself, you're like, hey, I know her. She's here. Too. I'm not going to dinner with you there.

[C]

No,

[A]

I'm not just meeting.

[B]

So then you're definitely saying you're not going to be holding hands with that person.

[A]

And maybe the picture tells a story that wasn't accurate, but they were on top of the.

[B]

Which means were they doing, like, some wrestling?

[A]

It's just bad. Maybe some wrestling. And I don't want to, you know, throw accusations at the two of them. I don't know.

[B]

But it is a podcast.

[A]

I don't know what their wives or husbands are up to, if they're separated, if they're together. I don't know.

[C]

Right.

[B]

They haven't come out and said they. They.

[C]

Well.

[A]

And then she quits.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which is like, nothing happened. Nothing happened. But I can't work again. It's like, well, come on. So, yeah, this looks ugly for Vrabel, but he'll be fine. And unfortunately, I think she's going to

[C]

be the one that suffers because again, yeah. First thing, you start hearing about her, and I don't. This isn't fair in my mind. But first, things are here about hers. Well, how do you. How do you break stories? Right?

[A]

How do.

[C]

Yeah. Do you just call Mike on a cell phone or. Mike. Yeah, let's say. Yeah, we're gonna make.

[A]

Who do you protect? Yeah, it's. You're not. You're not a. I don't know if

[B]

I'm in charge of a magazine and I'm like, I need some stories. Hey, I would. I would probably interview and say, how many people can you sleep with to get stories?

[A]

That's a great move. That's an old. That's an old school move, that.

[B]

Is it old school or is it common?

[A]

Well, it's probably still.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But old school, like, they were loud about, like, get that. Get a harlot in there and get that story, no matter what it takes. I'm all in on that. But I feel bad for her because I think Vrabel comes out unscathed personally.

[C]

He will maybe be asked about it once.

[A]

His wife might have a problem.

[B]

I don't think he came out unscathed. And his wife found out about.

[A]

Are gonna be tough. Oh, yeah. But I don't think it's gonna affect him professionally.

[C]

He'll just adopt the Bill Belichick thing and he's got an owner that does the same stuff.

[A]

Well, there's that. You know, there is that.

[C]

So.

[B]

Yeah. Maybe that's a New England thing. God, I. Boy, if I.

[A]

If I.

[B]

If I.

[C]

If I'm Married at some of the other. When you ask all those questions, if you go up there and if you. And if, well, if I'm driving a Rolls Royce or being driven to Rolls Royce, I'm not going to think they're dumb.

[A]

That's so dumb. Look, I don't know if maybe they've been separated for seven or eight months and he's been hiding out and he's like, ah, screw it. I'll, you know, I don't know their stuff story.

[C]

I don't know. Maybe her and her husband are separate. Who knows?

[A]

But we don't know. But it's still not going to land

[C]

well at all her unfortunately than it does on him.

[A]

Even separated, they're probably not going to go home.

[B]

It looks worse on her than him.

[A]

I don't, I think professionally, in the,

[C]

in the general public. Yeah, for sure. Because she can't, she cannot now write a story without people going, that's the. Nash is the world. She's the one who got that info.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

She screwed who she sleep with.

[A]

She can't come up with new stuff.

[C]

No.

[A]

Oh, the paper patriots are going to do this and be right. It's like, oh, no. Well, I mean, again, yeah.

[C]

So to speak.

[B]

Hey, you know, I, I, you got to do what you got.

[C]

Hey, maybe come out and cover the Cardinals, you know,

[B]

or maybe she'll start doing radio

[A]

in order if it was going to mean money. Roll over to the cars and do some work.

[B]

It's all about the cash.

[A]

All right, that covers all this nonsense we got. We had more to talk about, but it's getting late now. It's time for five minutes with a madman.

[C]

Angry patriot. And by the way, do not, do not. When it's your turn, go. I ain't got nothing. Yeah, last couple times. What do you got?

[B]

Well, last show we did pertains to Charlie Kirk.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I did tell you that.

[A]

You texted me like, oh, that's all I said. Well, because you said it's going to be a tough one to get through.

[B]

Well, because there's so much information out there that you have to sift through it. And Dale did the show with me. He's fantastic. He, he's, he's really probably the star of the show. His questions he makes seriously did great. But, but, but he'll be able to tell you because he saw it. And, and I'm gonna do a spoiler alert here.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Charlie Kirk wasn't shot by Tyler Robinson.

[A]

You've said this to me before.

[B]

You look at the video evidence of What. What happened to him? And you can. Might still might be able to see this on the Internet. Maybe they've scrubbed it. I don't know. But his shirt pops out on. From his left chest. It pops out, you know, well, he's

[C]

wearing a necklace that gets. He's wearing.

[B]

Broken off.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

The shirt pops out. You would think if you got shot, you would see a hole in the shirt. Or if he gets shot in the neck, you would think there would be a bullet. Go through the neck again, 30 odd, 6.

[C]

Right. They can go.

[B]

That's what they said. That would go through everything. But.

[C]

Right.

[B]

You know this. He was in a tent where they have like a tarp. If. If a. If a bullet hits that tarp, you're going to see it move.

[A]

Oh, for sure.

[B]

It's going to go flying. Okay. Nothing moved behind him. There was no bullet hole. And I even show in the video that the blood. Dale was coming out of his shirt by his neck. Correct? Dale?

[C]

Yeah. This is video from that day.

[A]

I've seen the video. There was an awful lot of that.

[B]

You have to see the angle. See, I got a video. The angle from the side of him. Most of the time, you see the angle of. Straight on, and it looks like it's coming out of his neck.

[C]

But right.

[B]

Really, when you look from the side, it's coming out of the front of his shirt and coming and falling to his left now.

[C]

And then the other things that really piqued my attention because obviously that was a different angle. Everything. But then there's video. Guys, within the hour. No crime scene tape. Yeah, no, no, no, no. Detectives. Also the guys taking down the video camera from behind.

[A]

Yeah, I haven't seen that.

[C]

There's no police there.

[B]

Took the SIM card out.

[C]

Literally.

[A]

They pulls the end game.

[C]

That. That. And that's what I always listen.

[B]

We're going to be doing those shows coming on.

[A]

All right, so this is. This is the real matrix.

[C]

This is the.

[A]

The other show that's very, very interesting. You don't have to sit in and say you're. You're not trying to convince me.

[B]

I'm just showing you what I see,

[A]

presenting some other information.

[B]

And I'm asking people, listeners, viewers, explain this to me.

[C]

Right?

[B]

Just explain this to me. I'm not saying. But we get around to the things that cause it. And the last thing is. And Dale saw this. They paved over the site where he was killed three days after.

[A]

I didn't know that.

[C]

No. And supposedly they tried to say, oh, that was construction that was going to be okay three months before. They have receipts, they have texts, Text

[B]

receipts saying, hey, there's anything real anymore. And I'll give you the spoiler just a bit that if it was an explosive device under his shirt, that explosive device leaves a lot of residue and it is dangerous, can cause major health issues.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

So it might be important to pave over where there would be explosive residue right there.

[A]

Come on. Nobody's. There's nothing real anymore. I'm just gonna go home.

[C]

We're gonna watch cartoons and then Ms. Erica. Sweet little Ms. Erica.

[A]

Well, there's some questions.

[B]

Oh, listen, we'll do it. We'll do.

[A]

But the Looney Tune is the host of the Real Matrix. And it's not so much that he's nuts. He is. That doesn't help. It's just that it makes. Makes you nuts. Thinking, all right, do I want to dive into this or not? Red pill, blue pill.

[B]

The first show we did, I. I say, you know, if you want. Once you see it, you can unsee it and it will affect you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And for a lot of people, you probably shouldn't want to know it. You don't want to know.

[A]

Everybody wants to know.

[B]

Life is. Life is so. Was so simple before I went down this rabbit.

[C]

Before I now found out that we really didn't land on the movie moon.

[A]

No.

[C]

In 1969. I'm six years old.

[A]

Ruined it all before he went crazy. He used to have.

[B]

I'm so sorry.

[A]

It's all right.

[B]

My life was so much better before this.

[C]

Hey, did this. Did this moon thing when we went around the moon, Is that real? No.

[A]

No chance. Nothing's real. This isn't real. None of this is real. What's behind me isn't real.

[B]

It's all it is.

[A]

It's nothing in it. Look, it's not even there. So there you go. That's it for the sports thing with whatever the hell that was at the end. It's gonna make me go to the Internet. I just wanted to talk about golf.

[B]

That's it.

[A]

I'm John Holmberg. There's Dale, Hell Stray. There's Dave Nash. We're done.