S E33: The Sports Thing Podcast w/Holmberg, Hellestrae And Nash - Episode 33 - 04-21-26

Summary

The Sports Thing Podcast w/Holmberg, Hellestrae & Nash

Episode 33 | April 23, 2026

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EPISODE OVERVIEW

This episode dives into the end of the Phoenix Suns’ season, the NBA/NHL playoffs, and the upcoming NFL Draft, with typical banter and plenty of sharp Arizona sports insight. Holmberg, Hellestrae, and Nash navigate topics like sports superstitions, frustrations with modern sports broadcasting, the unintended consequences of video review, and over-analysis in sports. They wrap up with lively (and sometimes irreverent) debate around the NFL Draft, Arizona Cardinals decision-making, and a side journey into the Mike Vrabel/Diana Russini controversy.

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KEY DISCUSSION POINTS & INSIGHTS

1. Suns Playoff Exit, NBA Playoff Dynamics

• Suns’ Playoff Woes: The hosts attended the Suns’ last win of the season, discussing Oklahoma City Thunder’s dominance and organizational excellence.
  • “...you don’t want to see this [Thunder] team as a fledgling get in... basically telling them we don't take our foot off anyone's throat ever.” – Holmberg (05:12)
• OKC Thunder’s Future: Praised for stockpiling picks and developing talent, compared to Suns’ draft outlook.
• NBA Officiating & Replay Frustrations:
  • Increasing delays and over-analysis are making basketball “a soap opera” and less enjoyable.
  • Noted the influence of gender diversity on emotional dynamics with players and refs.
  • “When they allowed ponytails on the referees…adjudicating intentions, emotional things.” – Holmberg (10:02)
• Superstitions and Traditions in Sports: From golf routines to football and baseball rituals, the guys laugh about the odd things athletes believe affect outcomes.

2. NHL Playoffs & Cord-Cutting Hassles

• Playoff Excitement: First round of the NHL playoffs described as nirvana for sports fans.
• Broadcasting Headaches: Difficulty finding games post-cable (streaming app overload); the “cord-cutting” revolution hasn’t simplified life for sports fans.
  • “My bill the last three months…$790. If I put all my apps together, we got killed.” – Holmberg (15:37)

3. Replay Review: Pros & Cons Across Leagues

• Hockey Oddities: Deep dive into a controversial NHL review scenario, questioning the boundaries of replay and whether it removes the valuable human element.
  • “It’s what it is. Just human error being removed from the game … It’s tiring.” – Holmberg (19:26)
• MLB Automation: Discussed new methods for challenging balls and strikes, plus reminisced about umpire-player drama.
  • “I hate umpires, so of course, I can’t wait to have it automated.” – Nash (21:14)

4. NFL Draft Hype, Personal Experience, and Superstitions

Superstitions Segment

• Personal Superstitions: The trio share quirky sports habits from “never watching the kicker” to taping rituals and quirky baseball cleat rules.
  • “If I don’t have a quarter in my shoe, there's trouble and the Steelers know it.” – Holmberg (24:06)
  • “Home games: Always took the same highway … had to be second guy getting taped … left foot first.” – Hellestrae (28:07)

The Modern Draft Spectacle

• NFL Draft as Entertainment: Host skepticism about the draft’s “event” status; fans are “just cheering for laundry.”
  • “The players aren’t loyal. The teams aren’t loyal. After a while, you’re just cheering for laundry.” – Holmberg (29:45)
• Hellestrae’s Draft Story: Vivid memory of being drafted by the Buffalo Bills, the financial/psychological rollercoaster for draftees, and how little players know their destinations.
• Team Loyalty & Fan Experience: Teams treat ex-players better than fans; the business of jerseys for players who leave immediately.
  • “I've got so many jerseys of guys who aren't there anymore … just cheering for laundry.” – Holmberg (32:40)

Draft Analysis: Cardinals and Top Picks

• Debates Around Pick Value:
  • Consensus: O-linemen shouldn’t be top-5 picks.
  • “If you take an offensive lineman at 3, you’re a buffoon of buffoonery.” – Hellestrae (41:57)
  • Preference to trade down, accumulate picks, and focus on foundational positions.
• Specific Prospects:
  • Fernando Mendoza (QB, likely Raiders): Hosts are generally high on him.
  • Ohio State Prospects: Impressed but wary of “shiny” prospects who’ve always played in stacked teams.
    • “How good are you when you don’t have that around you?” – Nash (47:15)
  • Jordan Tyson (ASU WR): Amazing talent, but durability is a concern: “If you’re playing 50% of the games in college…and you think I’m gonna go now to the pros and it’s gonna—I’ll play more games? That’s scary.” – Hellestrae (52:27)
  • Reuben Bain (Miami DL): Accidents/media narratives won’t scare off front offices that do due diligence.
• Cardinals’ Historic Mistakes: Regret over passing on stars like Adrian Peterson for linemen like Levi Brown.
• Predictions for Draft Night:
  • Expecting chaos, last-minute trades, and typical Cardinals letdowns.
  • If the Cardinals reach for a lineman, “I’m breaking every TV in here.” – Hellestrae (55:43)

5. NFL Franchise Culture—Facilities, Cheapness, Player Experience

• Cheap Owners: Jokes about the Bengals and Cardinals “not wanting to spend any money on anybody,” referencing player complaints about organizational stinginess and poor facilities.
  • “Did you guys see Cassius Marsh’s comments about the Cardinals being the worst franchise…the worst experience he could ever imagine?” – Holmberg (58:47)

6. Mike Vrabel/Diana Russini Scandal

• Handling Scandal: The hosts riff on media treatment, unfair assumptions, and the double standards for men/women in sports journalism scandals.
  • “Nobody’s asking [Diana Russini], did you have a tough conversation with your husband?” – Hellestrae (61:40)
  • “If you fired every professional coach or player for infidelity…we might be able to play in the NHL.” – Nash (63:01)
• Tongue-in-Cheek Advice:
  • “I’ll tell you exactly who’s to blame for this... Mike V’s wife. Do your job.” – Holmberg (65:45) (delivered as satire, met with group laughter)

7. Five Minutes With a Madman (Dave Nash Segment)

• Covers questions about Israeli security tactics and wild speculation about security at a Charlie Kirk event, referencing Nash’s other podcast and penchant for conspiratorial thinking.

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MEMORABLE QUOTES & SEGMENTS (with Approximate Timestamps)

• On Cord-Cutting Pain:
  “My bill the last three months…if I put all my apps together, we got killed.” — Holmberg (15:45)

• On Replay Tedium:
  “Hockey’s pandering to the TV audience…this game’s too fast for you guys to ever say, we don’t do that for the players. … We got to get everything right, or we’re going to keep adding to this North Korea of surveillance on each play.” — Holmberg (20:24)

• On the Draft’s Psychological Toll:
  “With each pick that their name's not called, they're making less money. … These guys are gonna be sitting there Thursday evening. … It's not like I graduated from Harvard…I could be drafted from New England to Los Angeles, from Seattle to Miami and everywhere in between.” — Hellestrae (35:00)

• On Arizona Cardinals Draft Habits:
  “If you take an offensive lineman at 3, you’re a buffoon of buffoonery.” — Hellestrae (41:57)

  “If the Cardinals go, ‘we’re taking Mallory from Miami’—I'm breaking every TV in here.” — Hellestrae (55:43)

• On Franchise Management:
  “It’s just not going to happen. … [The Cardinals] don’t want to spend money on anybody.” — Nash (58:46)

• On Cheating & Scandal Satire:
  “I’ll tell you exactly who's to blame for this...Mike V’s wife. Do your job.” — Holmberg (65:45)

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IMPORTANT SEGMENTS & TIMESTAMPS

• [03:38] Golf banter & Suns “Rah Rah Room” experience
• [05:14] Suns playoff loss analysis; OKC Thunder future
• [10:02] NBA officiating, replay, and gender discussion
• [14:54] Streaming/cord-cutting misery; old cable days
• [19:26] Replay review in hockey and other sports
• [24:06] Quirky sports superstitions—personal stories
• [34:15] Hellestrae’s NFL Draft experience & player side
• [42:23] Cardinals’ draft needs: trade or best player available?
• [47:15] Ohio State/Alabama prospect drawbacks
• [52:27] Jordan Tyson’s talent vs. durability debate
• [55:43] Draft night chaos predictions (“breaking every TV…”)
• [58:46] Bengals/Cardinals cheapness discussion & Cassius Marsh quote
• [61:40] Mike Vrabel/Diana Russini scandal, double standards
• [65:45] “Do your job” as punchline to infidelity scandal
• [67:00] Five Minutes With a Madman: Israeli security speculation

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TONE & LANGUAGE

• Conversational, irreverent, plenty of barbs and friendly insults.
• The hosts mix seasoned sports opinions, self-deprecation, and off-color humor.
• Episodic banter is both insightful and comedic, often relatable for Phoenix and Arizona sports fans.
• Occasional detours into ongoing personal jokes (e.g., superstitions, “Holmberg Empire,” Nash’s conspiracies).

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CONCLUSION

This episode covers everything from the misery and hope of Arizona sports, the shifting landscape of playoffs and sports broadcasting, and the anticipation (and skepticism) surrounding the NFL Draft. It’s a rich, lively, and often hilarious ride for any fan of pro sports or those who commiserate with the perennial frustration of supporting Arizona teams.

Transcript

[A]

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[C]

I love my VRBO for the view.

[B]

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[A]

Oh, not that. I play fast. I step up, I waggle a little bit. I get a little waggle in the hands and up I go. It does not take.

[C]

We. We. We were counting last time.

[A]

You get like 10 or 11 waggles in.

[C]

Yeah, 10 or 11.

[B]

Start counting them.

[C]

I did, I did.

[A]

But it's not like I don't ever go practice swinging like Dale's practice swing.

[C]

No, I don't have to swim. I get one half thing and then I go. But Johnny gets down. I'm going one. And then I. I lost track.

[B]

Hey, we're running good. This should be on there. I love that. I want that.

[A]

All right, fine.

[C]

Let's go.

[A]

We're ready. Welcome everybody, to the sports thing. A John Holmberg podcast. Proud to be part of the arm of the empire of the Holmberg Podcasting system. With me, as always, is three time world champion from the Dallas Cowboys, Dale Hellray and of course, the Angry Patriot. Dale also hosts the main event with Steve McCollum and Dave Nash right there. The Angry Patriot hosts the real Matrix. You can find those where your finer podcasts are sold.

[C]

Not part of an empire, but yet we still try. We're trying to climb the empire.

[A]

Empirical is a. It's. It's a goal. Someday you're going to try and find that. But yeah, you'll get there.

[C]

If you know.

[A]

Well, you know, I tell you what

[B]

part of the part of it is we've already done about 40 shows, and you can't search it on this one. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, you can search yours.

[B]

No, I'm talking about the real matrix. Oh, that.

[A]

Yeah. That's your fault. I don't care about that.

[B]

Totally understand.

[A]

Why do we have to. I don't have to hold your hand through everything.

[B]

No.

[A]

For God's sakes.

[C]

Kind of sometimes.

[A]

All right, before we went on the air here, I'm catching all sorts of crap. Or my golf wagon.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

I was kind enough to get Dale into the son's rah rah room on. And it was big league valet parking. Full access to the bar.

[B]

That's what he likes.

[A]

I'm catching phone calls.

[C]

I gotta get this. I need this, I need that.

[A]

I'm like, look, I'm 10 minutes behind you.

[C]

I gotta get in that bar. And then I find out all I have to say is, Dale Hallstran, they said, come on down, never, ever, and boom, boom, boom.

[A]

But they asked you if you needed assistance down the stairs.

[C]

Yes, they did.

[A]

That's true.

[C]

Lots of stairs, John.

[A]

And we get in there, and then the first thing I get when I show up here is he's on the golf course waggling. I have a. So I have a. I am never slow on the golf course. Slow and waggle are two different things. You are slow.

[C]

I am not. I walk slow. I hit fast. I. I've always prided myself on shooting 100 in under four hours.

[A]

Yeah, that's pretty good. Now, you take a lot of swings.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And plus, you're 30 or 40 practice

[C]

swings per round your ass.

[A]

At least. Dave is a golfer who gets up, takes a whip, knocks the ball stiff.

[C]

Dave also plays with EarPods and talks to the whole talk. And then he can listen to his music.

[A]

I get. I do have a waggle.

[C]

It's become more pronounced.

[A]

No, it's actually going the other way

[C]

since I've called it out. No.

[A]

It's been a long time. I've been trying to get rid of this. I used to yell at myself, stop it. Because it would just tap in the ground. And then I finally got through it.

[B]

There's no wrong with Nash.

[A]

There's never been a time where anybody says, we're late. We're holding people up. It's just frustrating for people who sit in the car.

[B]

So you're playing with morons.

[A]

Bitch. And complain the entire time that he's got to sit and eat his payday while I hit my ball. Just mind your own Business three or

[C]

four times the last time we played I said I'm just going to try and count out loud as waggles.

[B]

Yes, I would do that.

[C]

And it literally went like this. 1, 2, 3, 5. Well, I think I missed 2, 7, 8.

[A]

It's no different lines their club up

[C]

and no, it's completely different.

[A]

And then I do one of these for a minute and I get everything right.

[C]

He makes Sergio Garcia look like not true.

[A]

All garbage.

[C]

But thank you for Rah rah Ru there, that's better. And the last Suns win of the season.

[A]

Respect.

[C]

And. And the night was fun.

[A]

Let's talk about that last Suns win of the season. Kevin Ray and I, the announcer for the Suns watched the game together because they're not calling the game right now. It's national stuff and I made the with you and I think we talked about it here. Last time I made the case for not making the playoffs for the sun

[C]

once they didn't win the 7, once

[A]

they lost the 7 seed game, not making the playoffs was no longer important. Is it psychologically advantageous to make the playoffs and feel good that your season wasn't a waste? Sure. What they are running into happened in Sunday's game and will happen again, I think tonight, tomorrow or tomorrow. You're right. Wednesday. They are going to hit a team that is again the Thunder to me two years ago, way overachieved. Number one seed. Like they were light years ahead of where they.

[C]

So young.

[A]

Yeah, they, they get into the. I think they went in the Western Conference finals maybe the second. I don't remember last year. Win the whole thing.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And they're a year ahead of schedule doing that. This year was the year everybody said this is the year the Thunder are going to start their dynasty. They're a year ahead of it and they're better than I thought. This is the team that goes 12 and oh in the playoffs. They might run into trouble with Denver, maybe San Antonio. So I was talking to Kevin, I'm like, you don't want to see this team as a fledgling get into. And his argument was the young guys need to, to be in these environments to see who can step up. What I noticed in game one, and I think this is real important was while these young guys are playing for the Suns, they had Alex Caruso for the Thunder miked up and they're up 26, 27 and he's going down the bench going habits, habits. Basically telling them we don't take our foot off of anyone's throat ever. You might be Comfortable laughing. This is going to be a habit all four of these games the Suns will not sniff.

[C]

The only way that something happens is maybe game four because Oklahoma City after game three and another 30 plus point win goes to Old Town as a group and they hang out a little bit too late and they don't show up prepared to play because hey, we'll just win it back in. But I don't know. I don't think it's going to happen. Yeah, I'm hoping yeah, it might think

[A]

they can show up drunk and beat the sun.

[C]

Do you know the crazy thing about them is they have a lottery pick this year. They have more first round picks in the next five years than the Suns have in the next 15.

[A]

I think it's true that they have more first round picks going into 2032 than any other team.

[C]

Yes, yes.

[B]

It's a well run organization and they

[A]

built the new system which is you're going to eat a couple of years here and then you are just going to. You've got to hit your drafts though and I'm not sure they've missed too often at all.

[C]

They draft the same name guy.

[A]

Yeah. Jay Williams.

[C]

Jay Williams. There's one from Phoenix. There's another one from somewhere else. They both complain.

[A]

Lost a $14,000 FanDuel bet because I had the wrong Jalen Williams.

[C]

Really?

[A]

I had eight rebounds and I had the wrong one picked and I saw it and he got six and I hit like nine or ten on this parlay and a couple of more crazy. And I'm like what the heck? And this was huge. And I'm like and he and he's out of the game and I'm like well I got that one. Not the one that they and I wrong.

[B]

I want to point out all of the instances I've heard of you gambling.

[A]

Oh, I do a lot of it. I love it. I haven't done it a lot. I actually didn't bet on one NBA game this year.

[B]

A lot of g. Hey, tell you what, it's funny.

[C]

He's Phil Mickelson. I don't ever hear his I don't 5 whatever that was $100. You probably put.

[A]

Well yeah, but that's you got to win 15. Well you're you're bet. I'm not going crazy.

[B]

Your surgeon friend said you lost 10,000 million million.

[A]

Well, he was joking about something.

[B]

Well, 10,000 million. I I, I concentrate on the million million.

[A]

The million million wasn't the gambling. There'll all right. No, the fun thing Though about the NBA is that the playoffs are fun again. But with the game we watched Friday, when the sun's got. Well, there's the thing. This was something. They are fun. It's fun basketball. The one thing I didn't like well, and the Knicks collapsed the other day was great. One thing I didn't like though, is Kevin Ray, the announcer of the Suns and I are sitting there and there's about two minutes left, 15 point lead. And I'm like, let's go back down to the bar, celebrate this thing. Kevin's like, I gotta watch the whole thing. It's my announcer thing. I'm like, no, you don't. We can go. We went from a suite all the way down to the bowels of the arena right after a whistle. The whistle ended up becoming a. Let's see if this needs to go to court. Let's see if we can adjudicate this with.

[C]

So you're down there and nothing's happened.

[A]

We went on a five minute stroll down an elevator through the bowels of the arena, all. All the way back to where we were meeting. Looked up at the tv, they're still doing it in a game that was a 15 point game.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And essentially decided on whether or not somebody had intentions that were good.

[B]

And I'm like, man, when did that come into play?

[A]

I have a theory.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It's when they allowed ponytails on the referees. Ah, once the referees had ponytails.

[C]

Okay. I'm gonna. I will argue that I know where you're going with that. And I'll argue that. I'll argue this is a. From the very top.

[A]

It is. But when started to do the refereeing, they got worried about intentions, emotional things.

[C]

I don't. I see.

[A]

I'll argue because the players. You wouldn't. Dale, in a football game ever be as mean to the female referee as you were to the male? There is no way Michael Irvin is not going to have the same approach to a field.

[B]

I don't. Micah. Mike.

[C]

No. Michael's gonna give him a number.

[B]

And yeah, Mike's meeting him after the game.

[A]

We're talking about Vrabel or Irving.

[C]

Both.

[A]

Both for sure. But I'm saying that there's. When I started, when the NBA started to have these issues with. We're adjudicating intentions.

[C]

Right?

[A]

That's a ponytail talk.

[C]

I'm going to argue the fact that I don't think that coincided with women

[A]

referee 1998, all the rules changed.

[C]

But what I'm going to say is the fact that if you as an official.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Go to the, go to the monitor and within 10 seconds don't deem it flagrant one or whatever. Get the hell out of there.

[A]

It's not a courtroom.

[C]

Yeah. No.

[A]

What's flagrant one and two?

[C]

And I'm going to try and figure now again, I'm thinking about Oklahoma City on and Sons on Sunday. Dylan Brooks. That's a flagrant.

[A]

It's an idiot move.

[C]

It's a stupid move. So I'm going to balance it. But what bothered me was that later in the game there was. I forget which Oklahoma City guy did that to his son. Yeah. And I hear the announcers talk about, oh well that's not the same. I'm like, it's the exact same thing.

[A]

And that makes it a soap opera. Which is I think the goal. But what are we having? Crimes of passion. And like all this, it's very, very emotion driven and it's to protect, in my opinion, the players from losing their minds and screaming at anybody. It's a bad look. If there's a dude in the face of one of the girl referees doing what he does to him, somebody's got

[C]

to do it for the first time. Johnny.

[A]

I have watched and somebody will and it'll be ugly. And SC Foster refereed that game with the, with the Suns last and he's an enemy of the state in Phoenix like he's been.

[C]

He's an enemy of about 30 states.

[A]

There were two plays where a girl blew the whistle and the player ran to Scott Foster to yell. The players know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's a. Control of emotion. I'm not saying women shouldn't be referees in the league. I'm saying that it changed some stuff and that's just an.

[C]

I don't. I don't think they would replay. Do you see Scott Foster, by the way, when he was viewing one of the replays to see if it was a flavor and he slammed his as a hand on the. On the desk. Yeah. Do your damn job. Nice. That's somebody over there.

[A]

Well, good, I hope.

[C]

Now how about Scott Foster? You do your damn job.

[A]

Scott Foster's a rough one. Sons don't win a game in this series and I'm fine with that.

[C]

Do you think a great win Friday. And I want to heartfully, wholeheartedly thank you.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

For not inviting me to Phoenix Suns game because you got 41 better friends than I do at least. I really appreciate that some got repeats. Yeah. Oh, I'm sure they did. They had to. You got you got 15 friends at

[A]

the most, maybe at the best.

[C]

But Kevin Ray was nice enough to get me and my son in law Scott my tickets. My son in law. And. And yeah, I think you and Scott hit it off.

[A]

Oh, Scott's a great guy. Yeah, I think Scott's awesome.

[C]

He's pretty witty. Very witty. Yes. Very funny.

[A]

He's talking about replacing Nash the entire night. I'll leave that up to Dale. I'll leave that. I don't know how I'll personal. You want this to get with son in law father. I don't know if I want to get in the middle of that.

[B]

Well, I tell you what, as big as I am, this chair would not hold him.

[A]

The chair wouldn't. He would house that chair really quickly. The rest of the NBA is very interesting. I do like watching the playoffs. I don't like it as much as the NHL playoffs, which I have been kind of not paying attention to the last few days and should. But the second round of the NHL playoffs, I'm going to start investing.

[B]

I love the first round because they game after game after game. So many games. You watch hockey all night.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Which I. Which.

[C]

Oh, by the way, you probably don't have to go to Amazon prime to NBC. Peacock.

[B]

Right.

[A]

There's the other. I couldn't find games.

[C]

Yeah, it's like the other night you have to go to the guide and go where? Basketball games.

[A]

I couldn't do it. Basketball. I had NBC, abc, espn and then one was on something else and that was the. Before the playoffs. And I'm like, where? I don't even know where the game is. And I quit. Now I find myself being like my grandpa. I'm like, I just started watching it on my phone.

[C]

Do you remember the day when everybody goes, oh, I'm cutting the cord.

[A]

We got killed.

[C]

I'm cutting the cord.

[A]

So I'll be open about it. I've got that sports bar built at my house. I've got. When I had the satellites, each TV had its own box and it was getting a football package. My bill every month for DirecTV back then was about 400 bucks. A little heavy, but I bought baseball. Football. I had the whole package right. And felt fine about it because we had parties there on Sundays. Watch football, cut the cord, get the YouTube TV. It's like 89 bucks. Football package. Another $100. Like that's great. They get into a fight with just about everybody. So the Lose channel. Lose channel, lose channel. Get DirecTV also now streaming. So that's another hundred Bucks. My bill the last three months. No kidding. 790. What if I, if I put all of my apps together, we got killed.

[C]

And they're, they're hoping you don't put it all together. I paid 100 for this, 80 for that. And I, I forget the other ones.

[A]

And you do you forget all the nine dollar, nickel and dime?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

I've got 20 apps and I'm like, that's nine bucks. That's 15. That's 11. That's. Add this up and the next thing you know, I'm doomed. We got killed and now there's nowhere to go. Well, that's crazy.

[C]

Can I, can I put your back in? Yeah.

[A]

And nothing about it is good. That's an aside. We talk about hockey and stuff. They're doing a little bit of the same thing in hockey. They did it in the regular season and turned me off to a couple of games I was interested in. And it's very easy to do when you're watching the Blue Jackets play Florida and you're not really invested, but you want to watch some good hockey. But it was on NBC probably back in February, January, and I'm watching a couple teams that I'm like, this is a good game. And it went right to a review of something that happened. And I'm 15 minutes in and I've turned it. This whole get it right thing, the fans scream and yell, we don't care. Well, I'd rather have the game go better. You said, Dave, you watched the game in the playoffs where they.

[B]

Well, so this happened and I was just really surprised by it, that it was last night, Hurricanes and Ottawa Senators. Jordan Stahl came over the blue line with the puck. He went in first. If you have control of the puck, you can skate in backwards.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But if you're kind of taking the pass and you don't have control yet, then the puck has to go over first. It didn't. But they, they didn't call it offsides at that point. So they didn't call offsides. And all of a sudden pass to the middle and there's a breakaway and, and they call a penalty, hooking penalty or slash or whatever it was. And then they went after the whole play was ended. As a matter of fact, I think before the play was ended, they, they scored. But so they went back and reviewed the play and they realized it was offsides. So no goal come back from that.

[A]

So they going. How far back did they go?

[B]

I mean, the, the play was, it was, it was in there at least A minute.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

And they pulled the goalie because they, because immediately when Stahl went over the blue line with the puck. Goal illegally. Yeah, but they didn't call it. He hit Martin shooting up the middle for a breakaway, basically right. He got hooked. It's a penalty. So all of a sudden the Carolina goaltender goes to the bench and now they're going six on five. Penalty, delayed penalty. And they're, you know, they're dishing the puck around and boom, scored. And I thought the game was over, but they went back and viewed it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Offsides. So. But the, and, and, and again, honestly, I know you just said. He said, hey, we, you know, this is all we, we, we. But that game would have been over.

[A]

Yeah, it's a, in a playoff game.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, that game would have been over if they didn't go back and check that. What I didn't understand is if that play would have been over at the blue line with the offsides. Yeah, they. The, the penalty would have never happened. Penalty would never happen. So it shouldn't have been. There shouldn't have been a penalty. But what I didn't understand was if the play goes on and anything happens, that penalty will count. So Jordan Martin, I forgot his first name.

[C]

He.

[B]

He got, he was, he was in alone. He got hooked. So that became a penalty shot. So he came back and he got a penalty shot. Could have ended it right there. He got stoned by the Ottawa goaltender.

[A]

But it's a mess.

[C]

It's what it is.

[A]

Just human error. Being removed from the game and saying, I've got to get everything right. And going how far back do you go?

[B]

Well, to that point right there.

[C]

Well, and then if you determine it was all signs, then whatever happened from that moment forward is illegal.

[B]

I would think, I would think I was surprised that they, they. And they said, well, if you hurt someone, that, that. Well, you know what?

[A]

Hey, here's the thing. Free reign to take the devil's advocate thing. It should have ended the game. Like, you know, it's good that you go back and go, okay, this was a false ending to something because. But it's their miss and they miss calls all the time.

[B]

Yeah, but that's, That's a pretty big one.

[A]

It's a big miss.

[B]

Now, Carolina won the game later in

[A]

overtime, so it didn't. It's not going to be a huge controversy.

[B]

But if Ottawa would have won, totally different. That is a big call and that they eventually got right. And when the play happened, I was looking at it thinking we didn't have control of that coming in.

[A]

This one that created the blue crease was the stars and Sabers back in early.

[B]

Dominic Hasek.

[A]

Bret hall was his foot in the crease.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And it just became. That's when I said, oh, boy. Hockey's pandering to the TV audience. Instead of just saying, ref made a mistake. And this game's too fast for you guys to ever say. We don't do that for the players. Players make mistakes. They'll make mistakes. Refs make. Him was like, no, they got to get everything right, or we're going to just keep adding to this North Korea of surveillance on each play. And it's tiring. I don't watch baseball as much anymore. If I watch another dude tap his head on a cold strike and it's just too much analytics and over analysis of everything. I miss the human element. And it snuck into every single.

[B]

Well, as an old hitter, I hate umpires, so of course, I can't wait to have it automated.

[A]

They had a rule that was more fun because all hitters hate umpires and all pitchers hate umpires. You think no one could question a ball or strike, and you still can't. But now you can do it.

[B]

Well, it sounds like you can.

[A]

You can do it.

[B]

Sounds like. What do you mean you still can?

[A]

You can't turn and say, you out of your mind? What are you calling. You can tap their head, though, and go.

[C]

And now you got guys tapping their heads as they're walking towards first base.

[A]

Oh, and then the. And then the ref can. Or the ump can decide whether or not that was too long or you waited too many minutes or seconds.

[C]

Because it's fascinating. Because it just jumped into my mind. That happened to people I know and to me once or twice. When you're talking about the delayed penalty where one time with smu, one time the Cowboys guy jumps offsides.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Well, he's almost past you as an offensive lineman, so you re. You're trying to scramble and you're gonna. And you might have to grab and hang on. And they'll throw a flag for holding, right. And miss the. No, they'll have the offsides. But the whole.

[B]

Now it's offsetting.

[A]

Now they just blow. Now they just blow the whistle if anybody touches.

[C]

If he's unabated to the quarterback and that. But that's a judgment call.

[B]

Very tough play for you as a lineman because you've got to see the flag. You think he jumped or did he just get a good jump and then

[A]

he called the penalty. What are you going to do? Quarterbacks amaze me with that because so many of them see that and assume the flag and make that deep throw. Well, I've seen him get burned. You don't even necessarily see the flag sometimes because. Because if you're looking right and you see the guy jump right, and that flag's coming as the ball snap, you snap it right away.

[C]

Right.

[A]

So their eyes are on.

[C]

But you also might go from. I got. I got this five yard. Oh, you're going deep route. Or I got the go route.

[A]

You risk that you throw that ball. But I've seen the Chargers played the Steelers a few years ago. Guy jumped offside, dropped back. Ben goes for the deep ball. Or maybe it was Kenny Pickett. I don't remember what year it was, and I don't know that they hit. But they never called it. Oh, he threw an interception, and they never called it.

[C]

They never called the offside.

[A]

No. And he's looking around like that was. No. No flag. But he saw the play.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Everybody did.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

In fact, that was a game. You were at my house, we were leading, and you left, and then that happened. I do give you a little heat for, I think.

[B]

Are you one of those guys that.

[A]

Come on, man.

[B]

Are you? Are you? Are you. Oh, no. Please explain that to me. Please explain that.

[A]

I'm not ever listening to you. Start a sentence with, are you one of those guys? You're those guys all over the place.

[B]

But, yes, I have some facts behind

[A]

my nonsense, got some ideas, and I've got some. I've got some special. I don't know if they're ethereal skills that possibly lend themselves to the game,

[B]

that ethereal skills called mental illness.

[A]

If I don't have a quarter in my shoe, there's trouble, and the Steelers know it. And it can. I mean, I'm far away, but they need.

[B]

How many. How many superstitions do you have? Those are interesting. I want to hear.

[A]

I got a couple. I used to have one where I never watched Sean Swisham kick a field goal. I'd turn around and watch this girl that watches the games at our house, and she would watch the kick and then take a sip of a beer if he hit it. And I'd be like, we're good.

[C]

Was she cute?

[A]

Is Aaron. You know Aaron? She's adorable. Yeah. And she's great. So I just keep an eye on her.

[C]

But I did this on purpose. So I. I go maybe two. Two games a year.

[A]

Yeah. That's too many game or whatever.

[C]

Dom wants me to come more.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But this one particular game, I don't know. This is not like five years ago.

[B]

Jesus.

[C]

It's. It's been a while.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And I had to go somewhere, so I left at halftime. Steeles were the Chargers.

[A]

They were winning. Then they end up losing, like, 17 nothing.

[B]

Oh, you can hold that over his head. Say, hey, I might leave. I might.

[A]

He did.

[C]

Because the next game, I purposely got up, I say.

[A]

And immediately everybody lost their minds. You gotta. You gotta be in the same spots. We got a lot of that going on.

[C]

Did you have superstition?

[A]

You're a baseball player. We all have them. You had tons of them playing baseball.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You can't help it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You get. You know, Mark Grace has the best one ever. And when you're done seeing yours, I'm going to tell you.

[B]

Yeah. Well, I will tell you this one. You know, we wore black spikes.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And then if we had Nike, it was a white stripe or Adidas white stripes. And someone said there was a superstition that if you, if you just colored black over your stripes of your, Your. That. That you'd get released.

[A]

Yeah. If you did it, you'd get released.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You have to leave it.

[B]

That you'd have a bad year.

[C]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. I said, that's bull.

[C]

Yeah. And I didn't.

[A]

Yeah, it's exactly what happened.

[B]

So I, I, you know what? I'm not. I'm. I don't know if I'm superstitious about that, but. But if you're playing out there and you're in your. And you're.

[A]

Did you have something, you know, two taps to the thigh, something on before a pitch or something?

[B]

Oh, you know, running in the field and not stepping on the.

[A]

Don't step the line. Don't do that. Everybody knows that.

[B]

I try not. You know, I've probably forgotten a lot of this stuff. Oh. Actually, if I'm hitting really good, I kind of take whatever. You put my socks on the same way.

[A]

It's always.

[B]

It's nonsense.

[A]

Mark Grace told me a story about Lee Arthur Grimes when he was in the minors. Lee Arthur Grimes. G R I Grace gra. They had lockers next to each other, and he. He was a new kid. And he comes out and he's like, everybody's kind of messing with him for being the new guy. Double A, maybe triple. I don't remember. And Gracie bends down to tie his shoes, and Lee Arthur Grimes hits him three times in the head with his manhood.

[C]

His manhood. Okay.

[A]

If you. If you can hit a guy in the head with it, it's manhood.

[C]

Yeah, that's.

[A]

And so Grace stands up, wants to fight him. Every. Like, calm down. It's fine. Grimes is a good dude. Like, knock it off. He's playing with you. Gracie goes out and hits two doubles. That game.

[B]

You know what?

[A]

So the next game, he's like tying his shoes, looking up.

[C]

Like,

[A]

hit him a couple more times, and he had a little hitting streak going on. That is a superstition I can laugh at and get behind that.

[B]

You know, I'm just going to look up there and I'm sorry, I'm going way offline here, but there was a guy back in the 1900s, I think his name was Charles Boston.

[A]

He.

[C]

He.

[B]

He went to the New York Giants. New York Giants back then. Who came to San Francisco Giants, John McGraw.

[A]

Big hall of Fame.

[B]

And he said, if. If I'm on your team, you're going to win the net championship.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And play superstitious. They put him on. They won the championship.

[A]

Ain't going anywhere.

[B]

Next year, same thing. Next year. He got sick. They didn't. He wasn't on a team. He died. They didn't win again. Yeah, I got to look that up.

[A]

That's real.

[B]

It crazy.

[A]

Then he's right. Then he's right.

[B]

The nonsense.

[A]

Did you have any in football?

[C]

Well, it's so weird because now that I hear you guys talking, it's like home games. I always took the same highway, no matter if it's down to one lane with construction. I always had to be the second guy getting taped by my guy.

[A]

Really?

[C]

Every time. Sock. Left foot first.

[A]

Really.

[C]

And then some of our offensive line, like Mark TW and a Polynesian. Yeah, super. And he'd say, I know I'm stupid.

[B]

Yeah, that's what it is.

[A]

It just makes you feel mentally checked.

[C]

Yeah. But no, that's what I've always said. It made me know. Okay, it's that time. I got an hour.

[A]

I've got my room.

[C]

Yeah, we got an hour and 15 minutes. We got. That's my checkpoint. And Mark would always put this piece of tape on his locker because they'd wrap all our shorts and jock and shirt and he put it in the exact same spot. And one day somebody came by and moved it.

[A]

He's gonna kill somebody.

[C]

He wanted. He wanted. We literally took three of us. Can't do it because he will kill someone.

[A]

And that's his thing. It's as stupid as hitting the play like a champion today Standard is the standard. You're just touching the rubbing, the whatever, the oak thing.

[C]

Or if you do and you go for 10, you're like, I ain't never again.

[A]

Superstitions are weird, but they're very real. All right, let's get into the draft, which is this week. It's in Pittsburgh, which is awesome because I think Pittsburgh is great and probably going to rain.

[B]

Since you are such a fan. How many times do you go there each year to watch a game?

[A]

I've been back a few times. I haven't been for a while. I think 2020 or 2019.

[B]

What fan are you?

[A]

2019.

[B]

What kind of fan are you?

[A]

Come to my house. You'll still. I spend more money on what's at my house than I really want him there. No, I said you should come. Never get invited. But the draft is such a. They're. They play on our loyalties. I have said this for years. After a while you're just cheering for laundry. I borrowed that line from Chael Sonnen of the UFC when he said that he goes after a while, your loyalties. You should question it with fans. In football. The players aren't loyal. The teams aren't loyal to the fans in any way.

[C]

Or the players.

[A]

Or really the players.

[C]

No.

[A]

And you know, hey, wait a minute though.

[B]

Hey, your, your Baltimore Ravens team still sends you stuff and you couldn't have played worse for them.

[A]

To the old, that's true. To the older players or anybody on the roster, it's that nice touch. You know, it's the. I send you a Christmas card every year. It's like, oh, they haven't forgotten me. But during this, like the fans never get the Christmas card. The fans are. And this draft thing has become. I looked into it. The price is insane. There's nothing to do like standing in a sea of hundred thousand people and

[C]

you're going to be sitting there waiting

[A]

for 20 picks and your team might trade out.

[C]

Yeah. All of a sudden. Steele, join our first round pick. They have three second round pick.

[A]

I highly. I believe they will not have a first round pick.

[C]

I'm going to say that could happen,

[A]

but it's such a killer because it's got to be manipulated a little by a team like Pittsburgh. In Pittsburgh with the 21st pick. But it benefits them greatly to get a couple more picks or stockpile for next year.

[B]

And who wants to have 21 pick?

[A]

Well, that's what I'm saying. Well, somebody'd want it. You give. You give it. You give the 21st. You give a first rounder for two seconds next year and you're doing something that's a lot.

[C]

Are you?

[A]

Oh, yeah. Two second round picks are guys who

[C]

might do something like, hey, you know what? An hour before the draft, we've come to an agreement with Aaron Rodgers is returning.

[A]

We know that's probably going to happen,

[C]

but if they do that, like announce that that's going to light a fire, nobody cares.

[A]

They're just like, okay, we're Steelers fans. They're not going to get wildly excited.

[C]

Okay, how about if they said, hey, we just signed Mike Tom's act multi.

[A]

Oh, boy, we get. It's the same thing. I look at it though, as like, it almost makes it so the Steelers have to pick. They can't pick out of that. It's in their hometown. And if they picked out of that thing, it's going to be black and gold. Crazy. That that is going. That city is ridiculous. I honestly don't see the possibility of them at least trading down or out of that in some sort of way or trading up, which would be huge. But moving it around is if the loyalty to the game has become only transactional for us. They don't care. Like sell the jersey and then never give it back if that player leaves after a year or if there's some sort. I've got so many jerseys of guys who aren't there anymore.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And it's not. It's my own doing.

[B]

Do you. Do you give those out to people who come to watch and say, here, put this on.

[A]

Well, no, I try to make it all currents or legends. I've got legendary player jerseys.

[B]

What's the worst jersey you have?

[A]

Senques Golston, because I made a deal. He was a football player as a cornerback for the Steelers who had a great camp. And he had college. He hurt his shoulder and it was a ridiculous number of passes defended in college. And I was like, he's going to be my pick to click. And me and a couple friends said, let's buy jerseys of guys who are going to be the next thing. So I got to send Quez Golson. Year after that, or maybe it was a year before that. Dre Archer, who had a really fast 40 time and we drafted him as a kick returner. And I'm like, he's my pick this year. We stopped that tradition.

[B]

I think I said many shows ago, you're not suited to be a general manager. And you just proved that there. I don't need to. I don't need to state my case.

[A]

It Was after. It was after the draft pick the guy you least expect to be on the team. Superstar. And buy his jersey. Me and a couple other guys did. And I got really. Sinquez Golson was like, very. He came back first practice back after a shoulder injury the year before. Broke his other shoulder.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So then he couldn't move his arms. He was basically like a scarecrow.

[B]

Yeah. So you're the. You're. The general manager says that I really made the right picks, but they just couldn't stay on the field.

[A]

Look, no general manager can be that proud of himself when you look at the picks that come and go like a lot of these dudes.

[C]

Okay. So you guys are talking about all this fan nonsense. I'm going to talk to you about personal experience.

[A]

Here we go.

[C]

Because on. Back. Back in my day in 1985, they literally did all 12 rounds in the same day.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And they only televised the first round.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So after the first round, you know where they were.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I famously. When Buffalo called me and said, do you have any problems playing in Buffalo? My first question, like a complete buffoon, idiot, slap dick, was, well, what round are we in?

[A]

What am I getting paid? Kind of.

[C]

And they. And they said, we're in the fourth round. I said, I have no problem playing at Buffalo.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

That's supposed to be a second or third rounder. Now, here's the thing. What you and you. And just normal people say, you guys probably know but don't feel it.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

The fact that you're gonna be. These guys are gonna be sitting there Thursday evening.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And with each pick that their name's not called, they're making less money.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

It's not like I graduated from Harvard and I want to go to work in Chicago or la and I'm gonna send my resum.

[A]

Right.

[C]

You could be drafted from New England to Los Angeles, from Seattle to Miami and everywhere in between. Right.

[A]

Nobody knows.

[C]

And I'm a perfect example of that. Born and raised here, go to school in Dallas. Buffalo never talked to me. They never sent me a letter back then. Letters there weren't emails.

[A]

Letters never on the radar.

[C]

Never ever made contact with me. There were four or five or six teams that had. Now, again, I didn't know about my back issue and all that, but when Buffalo called,

[A]

you were surprised.

[C]

It shocked the hell out of me, you know? And I get done with the phone call, hey, minicamps, next week, you're flying by all. I'm like, I don't even know where the hell Buffalo is. I know it's in New York somewhere, but. Yeah. I don't know. I call my parents and my brother answers. I said, well, you got drafted. So think of the worst team that you've ever heard of.

[A]

No excitement in the draft.

[C]

And he's like, Dallas Cowboys. I'm like. Because they weren't very good either. But then now the Buffalo bills are 2 and 14. The year I got horrible before I got there. 2 and 14.

[B]

The year I got old Tartarian City.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, is it.

[C]

And this. And the. And the steel industry was gone.

[A]

It was. That city was dying.

[C]

It's just miserable. But what people understand is these guys are sitting there, not first round. Even though you go from making about 50, 55 million guarantee as a first pick.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

About 20 million as the last pick in the first round. That's all guaranteed.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But there could be $30 million.

[A]

It's a big slide.

[C]

And each time you. Each time a name. John Holmberg. Yeah. And the story I told this morning on our show was the fact that I was the best player on SMU's team. I'm not bragging. It just was going into the game. No Eric Dickerson. No. They had graduated.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

I'm saying my senior year. So draft eligible. I was the highest rated draft prospect

[A]

coming out of SMB. Yes.

[C]

Okay. In 1985. And all of a sudden I hear through the grapevine, because again, it's not on tv, that the Chicago Bears, who had been to the NCU championship game the year before, they were going to become the 85 Bears. We had a cornerback named Reggie Dupart. No, I'm sorry. Reggie Phillips.

[A]

Reggie Phillips.

[C]

Reggie Phillips. His nickname in SMU was toast because he couldn't cover anybody. But he ran a 4, 3, 5 or something at the combine.

[A]

Impress some people.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Athleticism.

[C]

He got drafted in the second round.

[A]

Where did he fall on the.

[C]

I'm going, that dude can't cover a cold.

[A]

Did he fall on the SMU prospects list under Dale? Hell straight.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

One slot?

[C]

No. Well, he'd have been the next guy drafted because of his combine thing.

[A]

Gotcha.

[C]

But yet, second round. So I'm like, well. And I'm seeing. You're seeing names going through. I played with that guy in an All Star game. He's not very good. I'm better than this guy. Just like you did. I'm sure when you're growing up, I'm better than this guy. I'm better than this guy. Whatever. But with each passing pick, less money, less money, less money. And Reggie Dupart. Not only did he get drafted by the Bear in the second round because that draft money and the signing bonus, he gets to win a Super Bowl.

[A]

Year one his rookie year. He had a touchdown in the game

[C]

and he has interception return for a touchdown. The fourth quarter. Quarter of a. 92 to 10.

[A]

It was not. But he contributed to the blowout.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

By being.

[C]

Yes. Yeah. Because they had to play somebody to get through the game.

[A]

Where did you watch that Super Bowl

[C]

In Buffalo or here in 85? I was back.

[A]

You came back here. You ran out of Buffalo.

[C]

Oh yeah. We all. Oh yeah. Real quick. The story that I tell people that nobody understands. He's heard it. I showed to the last game and all my stuff is packed.

[A]

Gone.

[C]

It's packed back in my apartment.

[B]

But he didn't, he didn't bring it to the state.

[C]

I pulled up into the players parking lot. There's 10 u hauls.

[A]

They're ready to go.

[C]

They. They're literally going to go in, see the doctor after the game.

[B]

They're not even showering.

[A]

They're just.

[C]

I'm like, I didn't have the nerve to do that because I'm like the coaches are going to walk through the. Yeah, they're not going to be there. He's checked out. He's checked out.

[A]

Boy, U Hauls are a big sign that the whole thing's over. Let's get to the draft. Do you like Fernando Mendoza as a number one? Do you like going to the Raiders with him?

[C]

I think with, with the things they have set up there, I think Tom Brady is going to have a little bit of an effect on him. I, I love Mendoza.

[A]

Do you?

[C]

I do too. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, I think he was great. I didn't at the last two games. I'm like, all right, this guy is legitimately good. It's like he's a starting quarterback. I just for his entire career he was just this prospect and then he gets on this team of all 24, five year old guys beating up college players.

[C]

Yeah. But all guys that are a little bit undervalued.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Always worry.

[A]

I always worry when there are five offensive linemen that'll probably go pro.

[B]

Oh, 100% I agree with you.

[A]

I always think that the quarterback's in trouble with that.

[B]

But. But he had a. He had a pretty good thing going before he got to Indiana.

[A]

He's good.

[B]

And, and I agree with you a thousand percent, I would say. And that's why this whole.

[A]

Ty, Ty Simpson down Alabama.

[B]

I mean, listen, I Think you could go to Alabama right now and be a starting quarterback? Have pretty good career.

[A]

State too, which always confuses me. Their quarterbacks are good, but they.

[B]

Same thing.

[A]

Anything in the pros.

[B]

Correct.

[C]

Because they've been Ohio State. Ohio State will put out nine. Yeah. All pro wide receivers. And at the 10th, the Cardinals.

[A]

Yeah, the Cardinals will pick them and be like, I don't care. They're going to go back to the. Well, it looks like the Cardinals are probably going to go Arvel Reese, the guy from Ohio State. Ohio State is going to have four or five top 10.

[B]

I know.

[A]

And their defensive players are ridiculous. Like, the guys they've got coming out are insane.

[B]

That whole Reese guy is freakishly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he's young.

[C]

He doesn't. He hasn't rushed the passer. He's seen a pass rushing coach now.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But at the same time, if you haven't swatted hands, if you haven't dipped your shoulder, if you had too much teaching stuff.

[A]

I don't like a three pick being raw.

[C]

No. Yeah.

[A]

Like, I agree with that. I think you have to if you're going to go three. If I'm the Cardinals, I'm not. I'm looking at the other guy, the Sonny Styles or Carnell Tate, you know,

[C]

you know who I'm taking if I'm the Cardinals. And by the way, you're invited too. But we're doing a draft special. It'll be here on Thursday night and we can all expose ourselves again to how stupid we are. But I've been swayed by a gentleman named Bruce Cooper. Oh, and I'll get swayed by many. No if the card. First of all, my number one thing is I'm trying to trade out a number three and accumulate more picks. Offensive lineman, you can't take him at three. If you take an offensive line with three, you're a buffoon of buffoonery.

[A]

Fanica Baselli. He has to be one of those.

[C]

Anthony Munoz, Larry Allen.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

And Larry Allen, by the way, was a second round pick.

[B]

Was he?

[C]

Second round pick. The Wall of Dallas. Steve and I were talking about left tackle Mark two and a free agent. Defensive lineman moved off in the tackle. Nate Newton, free agent from the usfl. Mark Stepnowski, our center, was a third round draft pick. Undersized from Pittsburgh. Right tackle was either Kevin Gogan or John Giesick. 0.

[A]

7th round pick, no number ones on the line.

[C]

And Eric Williams are all pro right tackle. Third round pick from Central Ohio.

[A]

The entire Dallas Cowboys power line, maybe the best. That's ever played.

[C]

You could put him. You could throw him in the argument.

[A]

I totally agree. You don't pick offensive lineman early.

[C]

No.

[A]

If you're top 18, 19, 20, sure. Maybe even a little higher, but top five. I'm not going online or if I'm dying for no lineman, I'm getting more picks and getting another quality O line. There's never a year where you're like, well, we're short offensive lineman that can play in the pros.

[C]

Right.

[A]

You might swing and miss.

[C]

You got. Right. But you got to pay. You got to pick around. So well.

[B]

Tony Manderich worked out pretty good enough.

[A]

Tony Mandridge actually had a good career. He wasn't a number one pick.

[C]

No. If he had been picked to the third round. Yeah. He would have had a nice career.

[A]

Yeah. Because when he went to the Colts and everything was like, all right, this guy's. But they expected the whole lineman to change a franchise.

[C]

Right. And that's not going to happen.

[A]

It's never going to happen.

[C]

So Bruce Cooper has been on this high horse and hopefully both of you guys can make it on Thursday. And he studies more film than all of us combined. He's a nut. Crazy. But he has finally talked me into if I get stuck because remember, it takes two to tango. Somebody has to want to come up and get the third pick.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Because nobody wants to come up. Then I'm stuck there taking it.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

He said, I'm taking Jeremiah Love.

[A]

Okay. And the running back.

[C]

The running back, who again? Dynamics. And whoever's going to be your quarterbacks could be your quarterback, but they don't have a game breaker. And this guy can run the football, he can catch the ball. He is what everybody says is like a saquon Barkley, Christian McCaffrey.

[A]

Saquon Barkley in the wrong place. Didn't work well. He was pretty excited.

[C]

He was good.

[A]

He was good.

[C]

But he almost 2,000 yards in New

[A]

York with the Giants. He was good, but he wasn't going to make a difference on the team being better. And I always say if I don't want any of the power outside of quarterback, if I have needs on D line and O line, I'm trading these picks down and I'm building those trenches. I am not getting a wide receiver or running back, especially when I don't have a quarterback and the Cardinals don't. And I'm not going to go for one of those high end, high pay. If he works. There's still three, four years away from that mattering. And then all Of a sudden, he's going to cost you $30 million. And you're like, we got to spend.

[C]

But if you're paying him $30 million, that means you got the right quarterback, you got the offense line, and you're winning. If you're winning.

[A]

If you're paying $30 million, like what Saquon was. And the Giants were dumb, but if he's like what Saquon was. And again, the Giants were a mess. Evidently, Daniel Jones was better than people thought. And they had a good receiver. They needed better coach, but they had no line. They had no O line and no D line. And you still had great play from that. You can't win that way.

[C]

The Cardinals offensive line, they're set at left tackle. He's pretty good. He's above average left guard, above average center, above average right guard can be okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

The right tackle is going to be a little bit influx.

[A]

But is Cooper Bruce is. Would he say that's their biggest need is running back?

[C]

No, not. But he is so dynamic because he goes back and looks.

[B]

I agree with Coop. Yeah.

[C]

The Cardinals have bypassed the guy who played for the Vikings, the running back, Adrian Peterson.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Oh, okay. They trade out of a spot to take him and took Levi Brown, you know. But all I'm saying is I've come to that now. Again, my number one overall writing factors. I'm trying to trade the hell out. I want out of number three. I want two number too many needs.

[A]

You got too many needs.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

And Sonny Styles at linebacker is great.

[C]

Linebackers, he going to come in and they always choose the wrong linebacker.

[A]

Well. Or the linebacker ends up not fitting here.

[B]

I'm a little nervous on taking anyone from Ohio State for the fact that there's so much talent around. When you. When you walk on the field and you realize everyone on your team's better than everyone on that team.

[A]

Yeah. It makes everyone a little bit.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, shinier on the not.

[B]

When you don't have that around you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How good are you?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It just makes me nervous. I'm not saying they're not going to be great.

[A]

There's going to be a couple.

[C]

Caleb, there's going to be a couple of them. That will be great.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

There'll be a couple that are disappointing.

[A]

I think Caleb Downs is the guy. He's going to end up probably going to Washington, maybe six, seven, eight picks, something like that. Maybe Tennessee, I don't know. But Caleb Downs for Ohio State was unreal. And the guy from Miami, the Reuben Bain, who I Think, I mean, he's got some issues, but that is a dude. I don't. I'm fine with his.

[C]

Well, yeah, we should address that because I'm sitting there going, when that came out last week, it's like people are up in arms. Oh my God.

[B]

And I'm like, explain for some of the listeners.

[A]

Reuben Baines had a, he was in a car accident. Somebody died, right?

[C]

Yeah. But he was not ever cited.

[B]

But he was the driver and it

[A]

shows up in the news months later.

[C]

Right, right. But here's what I, here's what I tell everybody. So Ruben Bane, who's a hell of a defensive lineman.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Here's what I tell everybody. Understand something. If you're going to be a number one pick, I know for a fact for me that I supposed to be a second round pick. All the back issues came up. There were people at my high school who said, yeah, guy came around asking about you. So if you're going to be a first round pick and you're going to tell me as a franchise you didn't know about that then you need to fire your security staff and your FBI and all that. So they, that's not going to. If they were going to draft him, that's not going to make.

[A]

It's the Laramie Tunsil thing from years ago when he had the, you know, the gas mask.

[C]

Now he did drop.

[A]

He dropped huge. And it was a mistake.

[C]

Yes. Because guess what, he was going, he's a hell of an offensive lineman.

[B]

Unbelievable.

[A]

He dropped out and we were like, oh, be afraid of that. And I'm like, wait a minute. You think this gaggle of 22 year old athletes, this is the only smoke

[C]

weed smoker you've got with a gas man?

[A]

That was awesome. He's inventive. Yeah, smart technology, this dude.

[B]

This guy figures everything out, using his

[A]

college education to figure things out. He's not smoking through an apple like some hippie idiot who's eating Rice Krispies squares all day. This dude's like, watch this. You can get bang for your buck to have that gas mask full of smoke.

[B]

I don't understand how you smoke through an apple and I know guys do,

[A]

but I sticks and all sorts. I don't like weed. I don't get it. But I watched all my friends do

[C]

that and it evidently smoke weed through an apple.

[A]

Yeah, you put the, you throw a hole in there and you smoke. It's weird.

[B]

I don't understand.

[C]

Well, I don't understand YouTube.

[A]

I hung out with a lot of people.

[C]

I Mean Central Michigan. I mean, for crying out loud, let

[A]

me tell you this. I watch dudes smoking out of apples and I'm like, man, no, thanks. That's perfectly good apple. I'd have eaten that. And then. But if I watch a dude throw a gas mask on and watch this and he comes out and he's got the dizzy as. I'm like, give me that mask. I gotta go in that world. That's. That is ingenuity.

[C]

All I'm telling you is a first round draft pick, they spend a million dollars on background checks on.

[A]

On all of it, and they still miss.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Does that say a little bit about. I'm still laughing about. I gotta get in that world.

[A]

I want to dive into that crazy mixed up.

[B]

Listen, I'd look at that and go, all right, I'll just watch your.

[A]

You give me those cartoon eyes that keep spinning. I'm trying. That great. Jordan Tyson of the Arizona State Sun Devils looks like he's probably going to be a top 10 pick now. That's kind of bounced back and forth. He's looking. I've seen a lot of the Giants at 10.

[C]

He had a great workout on Friday.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Only time he's worked on the off season

[A]

scares me that the Chiefs are at nine.

[C]

What scares me is if I'm thinking about drafting him is the fact that. Yes, you watch his tape. He's dynamic. He can make plays, he can catch, he can run, he can do everything.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But he plays about half the games.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

In college.

[A]

Yeah, I'll. In college, I'll tell you this, the. The thing, and this is going to be a homer moment. The thing that makes Jordan Tyson so appealing to me was his. His coach, Heinz Ward, because he, he wasn't the greatest receiver.

[C]

No. He was a cheap shot artist.

[A]

Physical, physical player. Ran routes.

[C]

If people ain't see him, he ran routes.

[A]

And Kenny Dillingham said, every one of these receivers is NFL ready. They may not be physically gifted enough, but everybody that's coached by Heinz Ward, hey, is NFL ready? That's different for most. And Jordan Tyson's got so much talent. If you taught him route running at asu, and he's got all nine on the tree. And you bring that into a pro set, like right away, you're like, oh, right. Okay. All we have to do is get the rawness off of him. He can run all the routes. Most rookies have three or four that they trust.

[C]

I understand that. My only question. No, you go ahead and then I'm going to. No, let me Hold I can say my thoughts. I'll forget it. You can hang on.

[B]

It's too late.

[A]

I've already got lost interest.

[C]

No, but the thing is with Jordan Tyson, he's got all of it.

[A]

Yeah, but he can't stay on the field.

[C]

But if you can't. If you're playing 50% of the games in college and you think I'm gonna go now to the pros and it's gonna. I'll play more games.

[A]

I gotta tell you, it's just scary. He's worth it.

[C]

I'm scary.

[A]

And that comes off the heels at the Giants getting that trade with the Bengals who.

[C]

Yeah. So now they have five and 10.

[A]

I do not understand.

[C]

Hold on. He was going to say so.

[B]

No, you were wrong about Hines Ward and cheap shots. And I was thinking, hey, if you're on the field, the play's going on.

[C]

No, no.

[A]

Is there on a swivel 86 out there.

[B]

Because when I played back in my little high school days, it. I'm playing strong safety, defense back, whatever. And the play went the other side. If the running. If the receiver comes out to me and he's like pretend I'm blocking. And then he just looks over there. I'm gonna clock Clanton him. I did and I. Is that a cheap shot?

[C]

The only guy. This guy. Yes, that's a cheap shot. Yeah, I got this guy.

[B]

See, I. I think hey, you. You play's going on.

[A]

Heinz didn't just jack dudes when they weren't looking. He hit should be looking. He got them out of plays they would have made.

[C]

I respect Heinz. Oh, Heinz is the best. But I know as soon as I said a little bit something I'm telling you right now. But this dude, the hardest hit he ever delivered in his life was to the Dairy Queen guy who was hitting on his girlfriend.

[A]

That is true.

[C]

Yeah, that's the hardest hit. And it was a cheap.

[A]

I thought it was going to be on the apple bar. I hit that harder. The. No, but another one of those. That's a big thing though in Jordan Tyson that I think that he coming out with that. And look, he can't teach college guys the way it used to be. It's just not a thing. But physical play, blocking, staying active during the entire play. Everybody knows To Dave's point, 86 will knock your head off. Don't relax, don't wander out there. 86 going to tear you up there in football. If you ever were running as a receiver, it's like. And you're in the Middle of the field and the ball, you know, the ball's not coming to you. Ed Reed's going to take your head off. There are dudes who are.

[C]

That was 15 years ago. So I know it's a different league

[A]

now, but that's why. That's my cheap shot argument.

[B]

That's because there's women officials. I'm gonna pull that right out of John's mouth.

[A]

The ponytail. You're welcome.

[C]

Right.

[A]

That as well.

[C]

Well, hey, by the way, did you see that Zay Flowers of the Ravens came out and said, hey, since John Harbaugh's gone, we practice the maximum amount in pads every year. And so they practice 12 times a year in pads.

[A]

They did.

[C]

That's the maximum you could practice in full pads.

[A]

12.

[C]

And he said, that's the reason we had so many injuries.

[B]

Too physical.

[A]

Which, which move on the draft day do you think is going to happen? Do you think it's going to be. I think there's going to be chaotic. I think there's going to be trade.

[C]

I want chaos.

[A]

I do too. That's the only thing that makes this interesting. They're going to put it on TV every year.

[C]

1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

[A]

I think the Steelers trade Alex Highsmith.

[C]

Here's where you're if hopefully you guys will show up. If we're sitting here and pick three comes up and the Cardinals go, we're taking Mallory. I'll go for Miami. Oh, I'm breaking every TV in here and I'm just watching lineman.

[A]

How that would be Cardinals. That would be so hard.

[B]

You know what? I'm rooting for that now.

[A]

And the worst, I can't wait to

[B]

see how the fans would do it.

[A]

The fans would lose their minds and he'll probably end up being really good, but it won't matter for the end game.

[C]

Right?

[A]

It'll be a really good lineman you're going to get rid of in five years. It won't matter. I do go back to the car. Or the Bengals being the Cardinals of the Midwest, making the trade after not paying Trey Hendrickson. And everybody says, oh, you got Dexter Lawrence from the Giants. That's a good move. But if you look at what other Dexter Lawrence said, I want out immediately. Leverage for the team for a trade is gone. You do not offer a top 10 pick when maybe the best anyone else was going to offer was second round.

[C]

Now here's my.

[B]

He's only got a one year deal

[A]

and he had three sacks last year.

[C]

You got a one year deal, just got reset. They Resigned.

[A]

They resign him. But I mean, if you're the Bengals, if you're a GM of the Bengals, don't you look over at T. Higgins and say, all right, we got $77 million tied up in receivers. We need defensive. We just lost the best defensive player we had.

[C]

But let me tell you this.

[B]

Are you trying to work your way back into being a. I'm a good

[A]

GM when it comes to the bank.

[C]

Let me tell you this to you two knuckleheads. You got a FM Slap dick jock, and you got. Whatever he does, a boner specialist.

[A]

Go on, sir.

[C]

I didn't want to say it. And. And here's what I'm trying to tell people. There's a reason since. And again. Cincinnati. Arizona. Arizona. Throw me in Frau Pay. They're the same franchise, except for since they got lucky and got Joe Burrow.

[A]

Yeah, they hit one.

[C]

Yes. Yeah, they got the Sioux Bowl. But if you're a really, really good football player, the only reason you're ever exposed to is because there's something. Something not right with you. Whether you're a malcontent in the locker room, whether you got an injury, whether we can't. What. There's something there. Otherwise, guess what? If you're that good of a player, I will figure out a way to make it work with you. So the Hendrickson thing. He's a pudgy white guy who's. I know. He's productive, man.

[A]

He's getting it.

[C]

I know. I know he's productive, but how much is that? Because of the structure of their defense.

[B]

They have no defense.

[A]

They have neither.

[C]

And maybe a lot of one on ones.

[A]

Yeah, maybe it's so bad that he got some junk stuff. I didn't watch enough Bengals to know that some of his stats might have been.

[B]

Why would he be only getting one on ones? He should be. The whole offensive line should be.

[A]

I'll tell you this.

[B]

Focusing on him.

[A]

The Bengals were so bad in the secondary that. That teams drop back on them early a ton. It makes more sack opportunities. But that guy is legitimately good. Like, he. He played on.

[C]

He's not good.

[A]

But I'm with you. Why get rid of him, right? Especially when your quarterback's begging you to keep that.

[B]

Oh, you guys know why? Because they're the. They're.

[A]

No, they're the Bengals.

[B]

They're cheap.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They don't want to spend money on anybody.

[A]

Did you guys see Cassius Marsh's comments about the Cardinals being the worst franchise, the worst experience he could ever imagine? Playing in. He played for the Cardinals a few years ago. I was a linebacker, I think. And he basically.

[B]

You have his jersey.

[A]

Sounds like. But he basically. They were saying, oh, it's just a garbage organization. So they don't treat their players well. It's the same as the Bengals. It's like they're. It's cheap. It's unbelievable how bad it gets.

[C]

You know, 100.

[A]

And he came out with it. And the Cardinals never fight that stuff. The Bengals.

[B]

What are they going to say?

[A]

I mean, come on, change your ways. Fight. Now. You don't.

[B]

Should they be like, the FBI and the Charlie Kirk thing and just, here we go.

[A]

You don't. Yeah. You don't fight it with pr. You fight it with actual action.

[B]

You know, they don't want.

[C]

Well, hey, in two years, they don't want.

[B]

They don't care.

[C]

You got a new thing going up in North Scottsdale?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Weight room floors away. That will be great.

[A]

The Steelers are always last. The players are always asked, like, what's the worst organization for facilities and work? Steelers are last all the time. Owners are cheap, but they have a culture there where they spin that into, all right, maybe we don't have the greatest stuff, but we treat you better than Coach there, Mike McCarthy, and he is one hamburger away from exploding.

[C]

I saw him about two years ago. I was like, if he doesn't start getting on the train, he's. Yeah, it's.

[A]

It's not even the weight.

[B]

It's probably seed oils.

[C]

He's gonna start eating that beef on whack or what. What's the thing? The French fries or under rings? What do you put on a sandwich in Pittsburgh?

[A]

Oh, oh, those Permani brothers sandwiches. Get French fries on the sandy.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

No. He's a Pittsburgh native, and he looks like he missed Permani brothers, and he's. I'm worried if there's any stressful games.

[C]

Right.

[A]

I want Mike to sit down because he didn't look good in Dallas. And these. These first few pressers are. Woof.

[C]

We. We didn't talk about it. I don't know how much time we have left. But how do you handle it if you're Mike Rabel? How do you handle it if you're.

[A]

We had his press conference.

[B]

Yes, I missed that I heard conference.

[A]

He basically said, look, I've had a lot of tough conversations. Family and other people. It's tough conversations and some men

[C]

not saying.

[A]

Who have been in situations where you have to have those tough conversations with a spouse.

[B]

And how did it go for you?

[A]

It went okay.

[B]

Okay, Good.

[A]

It wasn't as bad.

[C]

But here's the thing.

[A]

Some misunderstanding, some definitely poor decisions. Not everything happens in a vacuum.

[C]

But he's working for a franchise whose owner goes to a strip mall massage parlor.

[A]

Got a hand. Powder blue, like my shirt.

[C]

Rolls Royce.

[A]

There's mistakes made. Men are not perfect creatures. Nobody is.

[C]

But is it not? I want to know. This is a curious question for both of you because both of you guys are all testosterone and all that massive, you know, Rossini's. She's taking the brunt.

[A]

She's taking. She's.

[C]

She's probably done in the media world

[A]

because nobody's asking her, did you have a tough conversation with your husband?

[B]

Yeah. She said it came out. I said a tough conversation.

[A]

We know that.

[C]

Because no matter what she does. Yeah. Well. Did you sleep with him?

[A]

Well, she's.

[C]

Yeah. How'd you get that story? How'd you.

[A]

Beyond that. She's. She's beyond tainted. She's got to be embarrassed and we don't.

[C]

She's. Have you seen Mike Vull?

[A]

He's gross.

[C]

He's uglier than you.

[B]

I know.

[C]

And you're ugly.

[B]

Oh, I. I don't. I. I think Vrabel makes both of you guys look.

[A]

If you two had a baby, it would look like Mike. That's true.

[C]

Who's delivering it? Nat?

[A]

Oh, he's the bottom.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Brable looks like Miss America compared to you guys.

[A]

And that isn't a high bar.

[C]

You've said.

[A]

I just think that those types of things with Vrabel and he has to go. Go out and do the presser and everything else satisfies us.

[C]

But he's done.

[A]

But that's it. We don't know what's going on in Mike Vrabel's world. It's unfair for us or not. Maybe his wife's been like, yeah, we haven't been together.

[C]

Maybe he won't. But he'll still be the coach of the football team. They're not firing him. No. For going to Sedona.

[A]

If you fired every professional coach or player for infidelity or missteps in his marriage, we would.

[B]

We might be able to play in the NHL. They're running out of guys.

[C]

It would be. Imagine more Scrub.

[A]

The sound will be that Ross Pro. That giant sucking sound coming out. It's not going to go well. The NFL has. Pukinaku is going to get $40 million and all he had to do is go. Yeah. Anti. Semitism is bad. I'll go to Rehab. I'm drunk. Come on.

[C]

He did voluntarily, Josh.

[A]

Of course, voluntarily. There was no pressure. So I look at the Mike Vrabel thing, and in a way, I sympathize. I feel bad. I don't know the story. It may be.

[C]

Hold on. You're not sympathizing with.

[A]

Yeah, I'm sympathizing with everybody. It's dumb. But we don't know the story. We don't know if it's the Coldplay people that caught on the kiss cam. Everybody up in arms. We didn't know their story.

[C]

Somebody wanted a slice of either Rabel or Roussini.

[A]

There's the bigger thing. The people who wanted this done followed Mike around. They either knew something was going or her. They either knew some. Somebody was trying to destroy someone else. And I always questioned the motive when that's the. The case.

[B]

See, John. John is not. Does not live in this world because he's happily married. And it's not. You wouldn't even think of something like this. So it's hard to.

[C]

It's such a. At Homburg Resort, and they have a Holberg suite up there. The $4,700 suite at the. So I didn't.

[A]

But that was.

[C]

There had the picture that was taken. Somebody. Somebody going hiking and going. You know what? Oh, I got a rock in my shoe.

[A]

No.

[C]

Oh, that looks like Brabel Rusev.

[A]

They were twirling, and the guy was a mile away while they twirled on the roof like they were. You know, they were reenacting Beauty and the Beast, and the camera had to be the size of the Hubble, and they barely got a good shot. But you know who it is. And I sympathize with Mike Vrabel and that girl for both being perhaps available and Rossini. Yeah. I don't even want to say her name. It's not fair. It's not fair.

[B]

Well, this can be the last time anyone ever heard of her name.

[A]

If she ends up marrying Mike Vrabel. She won't. It won't matter. We don't know this story now. It could very well be as miserable and weird and awful and hurtful to people as it looks like it is. You don't know.

[B]

You know, we don't know the story, but. But we've heard of these stories.

[A]

Oh, they're out there.

[B]

But we have a lot of experience in these kind of stories.

[A]

It's so easy to look at that and go, oh, Mike Vrabel's doing terrible things, and she's doing terrible Things. Things instead of man. Nothing happens in a vacuum. You don't know the man's story. It doesn't look good. You got to be more careful. You got to take your. You got to take accountability.

[B]

Whose fault was it in your eyes?

[A]

Whose fault was what?

[B]

If, if, if something happened, I'll tell

[A]

you exactly who's to blame for this.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Mike V's wife. Do your job.

[B]

That's very good.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

That's very good.

[C]

That's who we're blamed. He went fishing and he caught a whale. That's pretty good.

[A]

One thing he hurt his whole life. Do your job. Take that home.

[C]

That's a patriot way, for crying out. Exactly.

[A]

There's no. There's no other way around.

[C]

How long you been married?

[B]

30 blah years.

[A]

Excellent work.

[C]

And I've been married 30 years. So we got over 60. Almost 70 years. At least 70 years. Yes. Marriage, it's a lot.

[A]

And.

[B]

But, but, but. And my wife never listens to this show. But I'm going to have her listen to your advice.

[A]

I'm gonna ask good advice.

[B]

Can I get a cop? Hey guys, give me a copy of the show.

[A]

There you are. Shoving all sorts of medicine into a bunch of genitals making this thing. And if she's not doing her job, he's just walking around at half staff for no reason.

[B]

Well, I have no complaints.

[C]

But I.

[B]

But that is a great reminder.

[A]

Do not let a man's needs to go sideways. It leads him to bad choices.

[B]

100% good reminder.

[C]

That should be your new motto. Do your job.

[A]

Yes. Ladies. He's doing his. Yes, we do your job.

[B]

We can't wait to offend more people.

[A]

Before we stop and go to the five minutes with the madman, I want to say thanks to Tactical black dot com. They've got their seminar coming up here in a little bit. Go to tacticalblack.com and find out all you need to know about self defense in a way that you can't get anywhere else.

[B]

Yeah, I've seen your stuff with them and it is amazing.

[A]

It's really good. Amazing group.

[B]

They really.

[C]

I think if they do stuff with you, like hopefully you saw that principle last week.

[A]

Amazing.

[C]

Yeah. Number one in my. My. That's how I'm gonna react. I might get shot. No, but I'm. I'm not thinking. I'm reacting. You hope so. And that's what seeing somebody. And you know what if he has his gun pointed at me and then he'll get me and hopefully I can lay on it.

[A]

They have a System called the rcat, which is like, teaches you redirect, control, attack, takeaway. And it is unreal when your brain goes to that first. It is not a reaction. And reactions are, you know, you know that football's reactions with practice and with preparation. So your muscle memory kicks in. It's amazing stuff. Check it out. Tacticalblack.com it's, it's. And that seminar they've got coming up for Active shooter, it changes your brain. It literally rewires you. I don't know. We covered about all we can cover with this. I think we're all done here. The draft is going to be fairly easy. We all know it's a Mendoza night and then the rest will fall and

[C]

Mendoza's not going to be there.

[A]

People are criticizing why he wants to. He can do whatever he wants. Yeah.

[C]

His mom's got health issues.

[A]

Yeah. He's. He's with his mother. Who.

[B]

All right, so I asked the question. If you think you're a top, if you knew you're going to be a first rounder somewhere along the line, would you be there or would you just stay at home with family?

[A]

No, I'm in his situation. Stay at home with family. Otherwise I'd be there.

[C]

But here's what, what's the difference?

[A]

His mom can't travel and he wants to spend that time with her. And I get that. And that's, That's.

[B]

Well, I mean, would you. I mean, you can't bring all your friends and family with them.

[A]

I'll figure it out. No, but I'd go by myself if I had to.

[C]

But. But here's what I'm saying. More and more. I don't care if I'm prognosticated to be a third, fourth, fifth, I'm staying home. Yeah.

[A]

Just in case.

[C]

I ain't doing there, Rogers. I ain't doing some of these people.

[A]

It's.

[C]

I'm doing Sanders last year. Oh, that was rough. I'm going to be at my house.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

My food.

[A]

I can see that.

[C]

I don't want to be in New York.

[B]

Sanders wasn't there last year. He was at home and it still didn't go well.

[A]

Wherever he was, he was first or fifth pick. Like nobody.

[B]

Maybe he was there in the beginning. He had enough time to fly back home.

[A]

We had to get there.

[B]

Yeah, pretty much.

[A]

Right. That was tough to watch. I would consider that if I was like a. You might be a first rounder. Well, I'm not going to. No, you're going to be the top pick. You're going to.

[C]

That if I'm Mendoza, my family is healthy and yeah, I'm there. Yes.

[A]

I'm absolutely there. I'm going to hug the commissioner. I'm going to enjoy that moment.

[C]

But I understand that draft cap that if you get drafted by the Cardinals, be ready to pay $25. Yeah.

[A]

They charge you for.

[B]

Oh, my. And there you go. It's just not going to happen. It's not going to happen.

[A]

It is the end of this thing. Five Minutes With a Madman's coming up. My name is Shawn Holbrook from KUBD and the Holmberg Empire podcast, including this one. There's Dale Hellestra, three time world champion. And here's Five Minutes With a Madman, Dave Nashko.

[B]

Well, just tie it into the great group that you talked about, the, the Combat Natural Black. Yeah. And you said, you said in a previous show, are they. They do Israeli.

[A]

It's Krav Maga based, but it has evolved through time to be more than that. And it's got almost every discipline.

[B]

So do they do Israeli tactics or are they Israeli? Because we just did a show on Charlie Kirk.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And he had a new Israeli security force when he was in Utah.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

And I'm not sure his security force was.

[A]

Were they there for him or they

[B]

were here or they were there for him for, for that purpose.

[C]

They literally have video of these dudes putting that little black thing on his shirt that blew up.

[A]

All right, I got to see this. This is on the real Matrix.

[B]

This is on the real Matrix. And again, unfortunately, we talk about this. We're teasing everyone. Because it's really. If you, if you search, it's on Rumble or you can see it on robot tv, but it's on rumbling. But if you search the show, it's not coming up. I think it needs to have so

[A]

much, you got to find it traffic.

[B]

Well, I know, but point is, when I'm talking about the Israeli security.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We probably will wait on that and get all these shows taped before things go sideways.

[A]

Signed to him by whom?

[B]

No, he, he, he, he. He hired them.

[C]

And, and you don't know that.

[B]

No. Charlie Kirk's. I've got videotape of Charlie Kirk saying Israeli security is the best security.

[A]

It is incredible security.

[C]

If they're on your side.

[A]

Well, sure, if anybody's yours if you want your security on your side. I don't care if it's me. If I'm not on your side and you're trusting me, there's a good chance if I have bad I don't know.

[B]

I think we got to the clip, but I don't know. But the fact that it was the fact that the Israeli security for Charlie Kirk would not interact and coordinate with the security officials at the college, that seems strange.

[A]

That's not all that uncommon really. No. Because I know when security shows up and they are higher than the current level, they just skipped over.

[B]

But then I. We have clips and I didn't show that this time either. But we're going to continue to do, do the topic in regards to the fact that all the security people were doing hand signals kind of counting down when it happened. And there's video of gentleman kind of moving his arm like he's signal. Like he's, like he's flipping a switch. When, when Charlie.

[A]

You're saying it was an explosive device?

[B]

It was an explosive device. Well, put it this way, Dale, you saw it.

[C]

If you, if, if you watch it from the angles that he has shown.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

It was not a gun show.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Okay. It's. It's like I tell people. I said if John, if I fire out and hit you with our football pads on.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You're going back, right. I hit you. And your jersey does this. That's kind of close, kind of screwy. And a 30 odd six. And no fragments, no exit wound, which is. No, no accident.

[B]

We have showed this behind him and

[C]

then the last thing that he talked about today, within three days. And there was no planning in this. They put pavers over. Oh boy. And 33. And 33 planters, Masons. 33.

[A]

Oh, 33. The real Matrix. You have to. Bananas Robot TV. You can find it there wherever else Dave's nuttiness goes on.

[B]

I wish, I wish I didn't know.

[A]

Yeah, I wish I didn't know that to yourself.

[C]

You can't help.

[A]

I know. At a certain point you just keep going.

[C]

And so will you.

[A]

I know. Anyway, that's it for us. We'll see you guys next time.