S E35: The Sports Thing Podcast w/Holmberg, Hellestrae And Nash - Episode 35 - 05-14-26

Summary

The Sports Thing Podcast w/ Holmberg, Hellestrae & Nash

Episode 35 | May 15, 2026
Host: John Holmberg
Guests: Dale Hellestrae (former NFL OL, 3x Super Bowl Champion), Stephen Coleman (“the angry patriot,” AZ media), Dave Nash (frequent contributor)

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Episode Overview

This episode is a lively, wide-ranging conversation touching on the state of pro sports in May, the impact of coaching in different leagues, golf rule gaffes, playoff action in the NBA and NHL, sports movies, and plenty of irreverent banter. The crew brings insider perspectives—from locker room culture to game strategy—delivered with their trademark sarcasm, humor, and local Phoenix flavor.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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The Valley's Sports Lull: May Means Playoff Limbo

[04:10]

• May is an odd time for sports fans—NBA and NHL playoffs are on, but it's not “must-see” Americana. Baseball’s in its early grind; serious fans start caring post-Memorial Day.
• John: “You keep your eyes on baseball right now… but for the most part it’s all about the chips are falling.”
• Stephen: Pushes back, says April/May is full of hope for all fans because every team’s still in it. By June, pretenders are revealed.

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Who Matters More: NFL Coaches or NBA Managers?

[06:00]
Topic: Ranking coach/manager impact across football, basketball, baseball, hockey

• Dale: “Which manager, head coach, has the most influence?”
• All agree:
  • Football coaches have the most impact (every play called, structured game plans).
  • Basketball/Baseball: Managers less vital—players have more power.
  • Hockey: Coach’s influence is nuanced (managing shifts, culture, calling matchups).
• Debate: Today’s analytics have changed baseball lineups; less gut-feeling, more math.
• Quote:
  • John [10:09]: “My thing with a coach… is the culture that you set. The locker room culture, the practice culture—all those things can really influence the game.”
• Jimmy Johnson & ‘Expiration Date’ Coaching:
  • Dale [13:05]: “Everyone says if Jimmy [Johnson] stayed [in Dallas] we’d win four, five Super Bowls. …You’re freaking crazy. The way he coached, that has an expiration date.”

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Coaching Styles: Players’ Preferences

[13:45]

• Stephen: Preferred hands-off coaching (“Leave me alone”).
• John: Needed “hard-ass,” demanding coaches.
• Dale: “Jimmy Johnson… knew who responded to what—not just blanket yelling at everybody. That’s what made him special.”
• Insight: The best coaches tailor their approach for each player.

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Golf Gaffes & Tournament Discipline

[18:06]
Story: Garrick Higgo, PGA pro, penalized 2 strokes for being late to his tee time

• Panel shares past experiences with strict golf rules—two-stroke penalties for lateness or hitting wrong ball (“Just wasteful!”).
• Stephen: Recalls marking confusion and the importance of distinguishing your golf balls.
• Humor: “We need a special Dave Nash show on stupidity.” – Dale [22:25]

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Golf’s Place in the Sports Calendar

[23:23]

• Panel likes that the PGA moved its schedule; now golf majors finish before football dominates.
• Stephen: “I think it’s way better. You get them all done before football takes over—’cause it does.”

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NHL Playoffs: Carolina & Colorado Look Unstoppable

[24:30]

• John: “Carolina, Colorado—head and shoulders above everyone else.”
• Discusses whether long playoff layoffs hurt or help (baseball/hockey; losing momentum vs. healing up).
• Stephen [26:43]: “Carolina’s just a blue-collar lunch-pail team… that’s easy to get back into.”
• John: Wants to see these “heavyweights” collide rather than upsets.

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Baseball’s Evolution: Pitch Clock & New Rules

[32:05]

• Panel loves the sped-up pace—games as short as 2:15.
• Stephen: “Oh, hell yeah—I was yelling for [a pitch clock] for years.”
• Support for challenge/ABS system (automated balls and strikes).
• John: “Let AI take all our jobs… then we just dance and swim.”

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NBA Playoffs: Suspensions, Stars, and the Rise of OKC

[34:02]

Suspension Debate:

• Revisits a pivotal 2000s Suns-Spurs playoff controversy (starters suspended for stepping on court).
• Compares to Wembanyama’s “anger elbow” in current playoffs; consensus: flagrant & suspendable, but NBA let him off easy.
  • Dale [36:01]: “It was premeditated. I see you, rear back, and elbow you in the neck… a flagrant above the shoulders.”
  • John: Opponents should target Wemby mentally now: “If you’re willing to do that and not think at all about your team or suspension, you can get in his head.”

The Oklahoma City Problem:

• OKC’s dominance looms; what can the league do if a dynasty forms in a small market?
• OKC’s depth: second-best player injured, new stars emerge.
• Stephen: “You will not see this domination again in your lifetime… Make people realize—love them or hate them.”

Roster Moves & Suns’ Future:

• Panel discusses potential trades (Zion, what’s Jalen Green’s ceiling, keeping Booker).
• Suns’ issues: point guard void, failure of the Bradley Beal experiment, possible Zion gamble.

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Sports Movies: Classics, Nostalgia, and Laughable Acting

[55:23]

• Panel reminisces on old favorites:
  • Dale: “Brian’s Song… first one that made me cry.”
  • Stephen: “I watched it again a couple years ago—I was laughing. The acting is terrible!”
• Discussion of Paper Lion (George Plimpton’s Lions camp stint), evolution of pro training camps.
• John: “You had a dude in there playing quarterback for the Lions for no reason at all… That will never happen again.”

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Minor League Bus Ride Stories

[65:00]

• Tales of 12-hour bus rides, pranks, practical jokes, and baseball vs. football locker room cultures.
• Dale: “If we played Baylor, which is an hour and half, we’d take a bus… Don’t sit by the bathroom, and don’t fall asleep with your mouth open!”

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Lighthearted Closing Banter

[69:20]

• The show closes with the classic trio’s playful jabs about rooming together on a desert island, practical jokes, and ”stuffing things in your mouth.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [04:53] Stephen: “Every fan base has hope [in April/May]. Come June, a lot of ‘em are falling off. Then it’s, ‘Go get them next year.’”
• [13:05] Dale: “That [Jimmy Johnson] thumb on everybody… has an expiration date.”
• [32:07] Stephen (on pitch clock): “Oh hell yeah. I was yelling for that for years.”
• [36:01] Dale (on Wemby’s elbow): “It was premeditated. I rear back and elbow you in the neck. Above the shoulders.“
• [41:32] Stephen (on OKC): “You will not see this domination again in your lifetime.”
• [57:33] Dale: “Brian’s Song—probably the first one that I took a strong interest in, and maybe the first time I cried.”
• [57:47] Stephen: “I watched it again—I was laughing how bad the acting was. Not good. I mean, it’s terrible.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [04:10] – May in Sports: Playoff doldrums, baseball’s slow burn
• [06:00] – Coach/Manager Impact by Sport
• [13:05] – Coaching Styles: Johnson, discipline & burnout
• [18:06] – Golf: Rules mishaps, penalties, player anecdotes
• [24:30] – NHL Playoffs: Carolina vs. Colorado
• [32:05] – MLB pitch clock, technological change
• [34:02] – NBA: Suns-Spurs history, Wemby debate
• [40:48] – Oklahoma City’s rise, dynasty possibilities
• [47:03] – Suns lineup/roster debate, potential trades
• [55:23] – Sports movies: Nostalgia and critique
• [65:00] – Minor league bus rides/pranks
• [68:53] – Practical jokes, closing jokes & sign-off

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Tone and Style

• Playful, sharp, irreverent: Hosts roast each other, but go deep on Xs and Os
• Candid insight: Locker room stories from Dale, blunt local crankiness from Stephen
• Local flavor: AZ teams, Phoenix-centric, but national sports trends as well

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Episode Value

This episode offers engaging, first-hand sports culture analysis, great chemistry among the hosts, and nostalgia for classic moments—on and off the field. It’s a fast-moving, “drop-in anywhere” show for fans of all sports looking for laughs, locker room tales, and sharp, unscripted insight.

Transcript

[John Holmberg]

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[John Holmberg]

All right, let's get this started. Hey everybody. Welcome to the sports thing. My name is John Holmberg and this is a John Holmberg podcast. Welcome to the Empire. I am the host of 98 KP's Morning Sickness here in Phoenix, Arizona. Wildly successful show that has just gone on for 25 long long years and still in that time, 25 years of a career. Cowboys have not been in the super bowl since this man was on their team. Dale Hellistrate joins us. Three time champion of the Dallas Cowboys back in the way early 90s Clinton administration if I'm not mistaken. Maybe that's pretty early. That's a long time ago. And, and he's here of that also the co host of the main event, Stephen Coleman who's right over the other room. Then there's this guy who I'm not going to mention not to say his name, Dirty eight. He's the, he's the angry patriot.

[Stephen Coleman]

Right?

[John Holmberg]

And he's got, he's got. He's worried, he's. He's paranoid. No, no, you don't want to be known.

[Stephen Coleman]

No.

[John Holmberg]

Here we are on camera. Nobody can know you.

[Stephen Coleman]

Who's looking anyways? The chance of looking at this.

[John Holmberg]

And what are you worried about if you are identified?

[Stephen Coleman]

Listen, I'm pointing out all the horseshit our government is pulling. Yeah. And the. The world criminals.

[John Holmberg]

And you're on a camera for that.

[Stephen Coleman]

I know.

[John Holmberg]

On the real Matrix.

[Dale Hellistrate]

But don't say his name.

[Stephen Coleman]

Not great.

[Dale Hellistrate]

It doesn't make sense.

[Stephen Coleman]

It's not great.

[John Holmberg]

You got your company's stuff on the camera and they just look and see

[Stephen Coleman]

that it's just not. Hey, listen, you know what? Do you know Ian Carroll?

[Dale Hellistrate]

Who?

[John Holmberg]

Pete Carroll.

[Stephen Coleman]

Ian Carroll.

[John Holmberg]

No.

[Stephen Coleman]

There's a lot of podcast. It pulls out a lot of government information. I haven't seen him in a while.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, did he disappear? Dave, that would be. I mean angry patriots. That would be amazing if you disappeared.

[Stephen Coleman]

Hey, possible. I mean possible.

[John Holmberg]

Would we look Dale.

[Stephen Coleman]

No.

[John Holmberg]

But we just keep going with the show, right?

[Stephen Coleman]

Oh, yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Scott would fill that chair.

[Dale Hellistrate]

He wants to get out of the house.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. Three kids now.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

All right. We'll watch saying names and treat this like something I don't give her.

[Dale Hellistrate]

I do want to make one suggestion to the John Holmberg Empire. Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

That's right.

[Dale Hellistrate]

If we do the show again. If we tape it again, we've got to switch seats because that light on your

[John Holmberg]

light bulb not wrong with you.

[Stephen Coleman]

Yeah. Why is.

[John Holmberg]

Why is that being. We're in the same room.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yes. And we look kind of normal.

[Stephen Coleman]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

I'll give you that for as normal as you two.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

I do look a little bit like I should have the word Phillips written across my head. That's pretty bright.

[Stephen Coleman]

I think I'm one of the least attractive people that I know.

[John Holmberg]

All right, let's move on.

[Stephen Coleman]

And I make you guys look sick. That's how bad you guys Bad lighting.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

This is too much there needs to. That's why whenever I do TV stuff they always come some lady comes and powders my okay.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Or where have you do something.

[John Holmberg]

I didn't anticipate being on the Wear

[Stephen Coleman]

the hat that we can read your thoughts so that we know what's coming on.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

And just an arrow. I'm blank. It is a sports podcast and it is a weird time for sports because it is the The NBA and NHL playoffs good ratings. But it's not gangbusters Americana. It is not a thing where everybody comes to work the next day and says did you see it's usually your sports heavy people are invested in sports right now. Baseball's kind of in a weird spot of May baseball. I don't think baseball ever. And Dave, I don't you play. I mean, sir, you played. It's sort of a post Memorial Day is when we're like, all right, let's start watching and paying a lot of attention. And you keep your eyes on baseball right now. Some great stories, some little things here and there, but for the most part it's all about kind of the, the chips are falling.

[Stephen Coleman]

I'm sorry, I disagree. And I'll tell you why.

[John Holmberg]

With baseball in April and May.

[Stephen Coleman]

Yeah. Because right. You're 0 and 0. You're a game away from first place early on in the year. Every fan base has hope.

[John Holmberg]

True.

[Stephen Coleman]

Come summer, come June, a lot of

[John Holmberg]

them are falling off.

[Stephen Coleman]

Yeah. It's like I do go get them next year.

[John Holmberg]

That people that love the game right now are seeing what their team is. The one thing that ruined it were the 2003 Marlins. If you remember. That was the team that started off, I think it was two. They started off like 20 wins and they fired everybody and then ran off from the end of May until the World Series. And that was a ridiculous turnaround of like 65 games because they decided to really.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Okay.

[John Holmberg]

And it's. And it's very rare in baseball that you kind of are who you are in May.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

And that's why I think I start paying attention right around June. I'm like, all right, the chips have settled, the players are in. There's going to be a surprise team that kind of middles. The Diamondbacks are almost always that team that hangs around that center line. What are they to make a run. They can fall off.

[Dale Hellistrate]

This is on my head. I want to get your guys opinion of the four major sports. So we'll just keep it to that. Football, basketball, baseball, hockey. Which manager head coach has the most influence over the success of a team and which has the least. When you say, hey, they made a managerial change. Basel. I would think in baseball the manager has, other than pitching decisions, has the least amount of influence on a locker room. I'm just curious what your guys thoughts are. I don't know if there's any play

[John Holmberg]

to let you start that because I think the game's different in the last few years.

[Stephen Coleman]

Okay, well, the only thing a manager really can do is set up the lineup. That's really it.

[Dale Hellistrate]

And make a pitching change. But isn't that all Driven?

[John Holmberg]

Yes. Sitting. That's the new thing. I agree. The old days, it's like, let's find this. We got a, we got a pitcher that this guy matches with and you had a hunch that this kid was going to hit a little better off of this guy than that guy now with analytics and everything. I think they're the math that goes into setting the lineup is totally different than it used. Remember the old days was the lineup was. I can still remember the Chicago Cubs late 70s batting order because it never changed one left left handed hitter, Bill Buckner one. And then the Pirates in 79 had the same lineup. Occasionally you'd switch out catcher. You know, you'd have a guy. Manny Sanguin was the backup catcher. I don't know why I remember that, but he was there. And then, you know, you'd move in Ed Ott and all these guys would come and go. But you had the same lineup. And the catcher batted where the other catcher batted. Like if he was the 7 slot, that's where he stayed. And Chuck Tanner was a genius. Won a World Series. But it was mainly that. Nowadays I think it's different because they're calling pitches, they're telling they're. They're in the pitcher's ear with that thing. I think there's a lot more to it than there used to be.

[Stephen Coleman]

Yeah. With a call into the pitches. Yeah. Although when I played.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Stephen Coleman]

Back a thousand years ago.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah.

[Stephen Coleman]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Our manager called coaches would tell the catcher.

[Stephen Coleman]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

A lot of times. But a lot of times good enough could call his own game.

[Stephen Coleman]

Yeah. I. Right. It's pro. I don't think it's as structured as it is now.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah.

[Stephen Coleman]

Um, but, but our, our manager would, would call pitches.

[John Holmberg]

But as far as the four majors,

[Stephen Coleman]

I think football by far.

[John Holmberg]

Well, every play is called by a coach.

[Stephen Coleman]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

And structured by the coach during the week.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

So. And, and game plans. I get game planning. I probably.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Probably the reason I asked it because I know the Vegas Knights changed coaches.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Late in the season. Yeah. And they're still playing, you know, and made a run. How much was it because of the, of the coaching change? Was it. Do you have that much influence in hockey?

[Stephen Coleman]

I just, I just read that the Oilers fired their coach. Knobloch. Yeah. Who before this year there were. They got bounced in the first round. They went to the cup the last two years and ran it and how he goes.

[John Holmberg]

They were close. They were in 10 games. One. One after the other. These tight games last.

[Stephen Coleman]

And I, and I thought to myself, hockey just eats through coaches, but so does football.

[Dale Hellistrate]

25% of the head coaches in football get changed over every year. On average. On average.

[John Holmberg]

That's a tough one because you'd have to say it's. But hockey, it depends too. You get a motivational coach or you get a structured X and O coach. And I know hockey's more read and react. But if he's got the right guys on the ice at the right time, he's running the shifts at the right time. That's a coach's call. When shift changes happen and they're running one minutes or 90s or whatever, you start getting into, like, who's calling this this? You know, reading your roster and saying, we got a bunch of fast guys that gas out fast. I got a team full of cheetahs, right. And I'm running them out there for two and three minute shifts. They start dying. That's bad coaching. You don't see it as a fan because you just see these dudes, right.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Jumping over and you don't see any rhyme or reason to what's going on or whatever. Just the next line. Next line.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellistrate]

My thing with a coach, whether it's a coach, manager, whatever, is the culture that you set.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellistrate]

The locker room culture, the practice culture, all those things that can really influence the outcome of a game. I was just curious because I remember the Vegas guy getting fired late in the. Everybody's going, why would you fire him this late in the season?

[John Holmberg]

Well, basketball, they did that with a couple of guys. And the world champion Bucks a few years ago fired their coach mid season. The Nuggets fired Malone with two weeks left in a season they were like the three seed. It didn't make any sense.

[Dale Hellistrate]

And.

[John Holmberg]

And it was. And. But that's the thing. I think that didn't work out for no. And I think this is funny, odd that you bring this up. I had this conversation with somebody the other day, the NBA. Probably the least important is.

[Stephen Coleman]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

Right. Because the players can get rid of them.

[Stephen Coleman]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

So the owners have basically admitted, you know, it happens in other sports. But be careful what you wish for because I think that was Aaron Gordon and the Joker and everybody else saying, I don't need Malone barking at me. We're too good for this. And we had a coach who was kind of a hard down your throat guy, and they got rid of him and realized, oh, maybe we did need that discipline for the rest of the team. Because the Nuggets should be.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Let's see, you look at basketball. In my mind, you look at baseball.

[Progressive Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellistrate]

The two sports where the guys are the stars are making the most money.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellistrate]

By far.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, yeah.

[Dale Hellistrate]

I'm paying a coach $7.5 million a year. I'm paying the Joker $50 million a year.

[Stephen Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellistrate]

You know, and in baseball, I'm paying Ohtani however much I'm paying him. And I'm paying the manager $7 million a year.

[John Holmberg]

But the difference, I think with basketball is there's five guys. So if you have one dude like Joker who says, I'm not happy here, your whole franchise is in jeopardy. With baseball, Ohtani being an exception, A couple other guys, for the most part, your superstar, you can bounce them, right. And still say, we're competitive so long as we have a decent team. There's so much relying on other guys. Basketball, one dude, you lose, one dude, you're out. I think even if the Dodgers lost Ohtani, it would be devastating. But they could do it, right?

[Stephen Coleman]

Oh, I think wholeheartedly.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. So, yeah, it's a good debate because it truly is like the motivational coach in hockey clearly gets a team going.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

And I guess I wouldn't know enough about hockey coaching to know how in tune they are with the timing of the shift changes. You know, when to press, when to hold back. I mean, how to run. I mean, what they do is just

[Dale Hellistrate]

ask about this Todorello, and you probably know more about him than I do, but he's good in short spurts because he's such a tough coach.

[Stephen Coleman]

The thing is, he went into Vegas, though, and said this is a very veteran laden team. That he didn't really have to do the stuff that he's done in past.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Okay.

[John Holmberg]

Which is just be the light of fire hard ass guy that says, yeah, he was. And that does burn like a comet that. That comes and goes real fast. Maybe that was their goal.

[Dale Hellistrate]

That's pretty smart. So I go back to me and Jimmy Johnson, everybody. I still, I argue with Troy and I. I'll argue with Michael to where everybody says, oh, Jimmy stayed, we'd win four straight Super Bowls or maybe five. And I'm like, you guys are freaking crazy. I said the way he coached the thumb on everybody. That has an expiration date. And by the way, Barry Switzer comes in, we go to the SEC championship game. Troy, if you don't throw three picks in the first quarter, we have a chance to win.

[John Holmberg]

Right.

[Stephen Coleman]

Well, I will say this. As a player, there were certain styles I liked.

[John Holmberg]

What did you like best?

[Stephen Coleman]

I like. Leave me alone. Because I'm.

[John Holmberg]

See, I like the hard ass that.

[Stephen Coleman]

Okay, there you go.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Stephen Coleman]

So. So if the leaders of the team.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Stephen Coleman]

Like the hard ass situ. Like Troy did. Yeah, 100%. Maybe even Michael. Michael needed it. If they like that, then the team

[John Holmberg]

better get used to it.

[Stephen Coleman]

Well, and not only that, then. Then that won't burn out as quickly as if you have a team full of me's and I'm like, go f yourself. I'm tired of your nonsense.

[John Holmberg]

I think you run into that. I think you have to have a team that's willing to accept whatever the coach is.

[Dale Hellistrate]

But what I can tell you is like a Jimmy Johnson. Well, one of the things that did make him special was the fact that he knew the way I responded was come up behind me and go, hey, you're better than this. Yeah, you can play better. Whereas John Holmberg. I need to yell and scream again. And he knew.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Who. Who responded to what? Not just blanket yelling at everybody.

[Stephen Coleman]

I think.

[Dale Hellistrate]

I think I heard Jimmy Johnson, in five years, yell my name twice.

[John Holmberg]

Really?

[Dale Hellistrate]

In a practice and never in a game, but in practice. And both of them were warranted. But other guys, he'd rant and rave and yell and scream and whatever, and that's what they responded.

[John Holmberg]

I think it's. You respond to how you were raised, too. I think it's a lot of that. My dad in sports was very much like, go, go, go. Who cares that you did good, better? Otherwise, the last one, we're going to get down on this next thing, right? And he's just waiting for your next mistake. That was basically what it was like. Everything was expected to go well, Right. So I needed a coach that was like, everything bad's unacceptable. Everything good is expected.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Okay?

[John Holmberg]

And so I enjoyed that when a coach was kind of. That. I didn't like the hands on. Hey, everything's okay. I didn't like those guys. I didn't like the motivators. I don't buy into their crap. I think they're just reading out of a book and puking back, dumb in.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Right. And so everybody's unique. The last time my dad supposedly ever tried to coach me was when I was like eight years old, Nine years old, playing baseball at two strikes on me. And he was in the stands. I tell you, I love this story. And. And he's talking to me, whatever. And I hear him go, dale, choke up. Yeah, you need to choke up. Two strikes. And according to my mom, I don't remember it. According to my mom, I stepped out of the batter's box, I looked at her and said, I am choking up. And that's the last time my dad ever coached me out.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, my dad was an int. It wasn't mean, but it was intense. And let's go.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Okay.

[John Holmberg]

And we had a few coaches that were kind of like, all right, this guy's. I just didn't Respect the. Everybody's going to get a kind vibe. I needed somebody. I needed to know that if the guy next to me screwed up, I wasn't going to be the one that had to bark at him.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

You know, And I didn't. I wasn't that kid anyway. But coaches need to be that.

[Dale Hellistrate]

I.

[John Holmberg]

Man, that's a good question. Because I'd say probably football is the most important. But then you start. I think we all. I think we all agree basketball is the least.

[Stephen Coleman]

Yeah. I mean, because even if they're telling you said the guys aren't listening anyways and they're not telling them anything.

[John Holmberg]

The timeouts are important, but I call timeout. Basketball is so easy. Like on tv. I'm like, all right, come on, timeout. And it's.

[Dale Hellistrate]

It scored eight straight points.

[John Holmberg]

And you can tell on the momentum swings. And I kill this. This has got to stop. So basketball's. But I'm again minimizing what they do because a great coach is a great coach. Eric Spoelstra is a great coach down in Miami. Gets the most out of very little a lot of times.

[Dale Hellistrate]

But they tend to bring the guys in that he wants to coach.

[John Holmberg]

Very true. So it stays on his kind of. Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah. I would probably go football, maybe hockey, then baseball, basketball of the fours. I think that's probably agreed something along those lines. Yeah. Interesting.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Sorry to interrupt.

[John Holmberg]

No, it's not interrupting. That's an interesting thought. Because coaching's such a thing and especially

[Stephen Coleman]

with you should be very proud there. We actually talked about something.

[John Holmberg]

We used a topic. It was cohesive, coherent.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah, it was.

[John Holmberg]

It seemed well thought out.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Which is something I would never accuse you of.

[Stephen Coleman]

And you get my vote to actually do more talking instead of this guy.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Well, come on, give me a break. Normally the more talking is a lot less of what we just got. Yeah.

[Stephen Coleman]

Touche.

[John Holmberg]

Touche. Let's get into the NHL playoffs, though, because watching it and normally it's my favorite time of year for sports with that. I don't care about.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Before we get into.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, here we go again. See, you've encouraged it.

[Dale Hellistrate]

No, because again, we all golf.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Do you see what happened to Higo today?

[John Holmberg]

Interesting.

[Dale Hellistrate]

No, you didn't.

[Stephen Coleman]

No.

[Dale Hellistrate]

One minute late to his tea time.

[Stephen Coleman]

Oh, yeah, that's two stroke.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Two stroke.

[John Holmberg]

Two stroke penalty to not show up on time.

[Dale Hellistrate]

But now. But now he's saying. He was there. He was present.

[John Holmberg]

Fighting it.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

He was on his mind through the round.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah, probably. I don't know what he shot today?

[Stephen Coleman]

I'll tell you what. I used to play in a lot of amateur tournaments here.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah.

[Stephen Coleman]

State tournaments. And there was a gentleman named Doc Graves. He was kind of like the. The. The rules official for Arizona Golf Association. Great history, great golfer. And. And. And the thing is, you could be on. You could be near the tee or you could be by your bag, but if you're not ready to hit.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Stephen Coleman]

You'd be standing on a T. You're not ready to hit on with your time. Two stroke penalty.

[John Holmberg]

It was.

[Dale Hellistrate]

That's.

[John Holmberg]

That's extreme.

[Stephen Coleman]

I get that. Yeah. I get that. And. And I wasn't f.

[John Holmberg]

But he was

[Stephen Coleman]

a character and whatever. But. But yeah, you. You need to be there. I missed the tea time once. I. I got dyslexic and I thought my tea time was 8. 42 instead of 8:24.

[John Holmberg]

Oops.

[Stephen Coleman]

Yeah. It was a two stroker.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Okay.

[John Holmberg]

Did you come back?

[Dale Hellistrate]

No.

[John Holmberg]

Did you overcome.

[Stephen Coleman]

No. Oh, I did not.

[John Holmberg]

You mental little man. The whole way through.

[Stephen Coleman]

Well, let's just say this. I don't think I was good enough to.

[John Holmberg]

I don't.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah.

[Stephen Coleman]

I don't need.

[John Holmberg]

I don't need. You need help.

[Stephen Coleman]

I don't need a handicap going into it.

[John Holmberg]

You've got enough handicaps.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Right, but you got it. This is a major. This is some podunk in Mississippi or whatever.

[Stephen Coleman]

How is nobody?

[Dale Hellistrate]

I just saw him being interviewed. He said his cat, he said, hey, we need to go. We need to go. He goes, I was there.

[John Holmberg]

Huh?

[Dale Hellistrate]

So there's cameras.

[John Holmberg]

They're gonna know.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah.

[Stephen Coleman]

Are you ready to. Not. Not in the vicinity.

[John Holmberg]

What does that mean?

[Stephen Coleman]

Club in hand.

[John Holmberg]

But sometimes those guys stand and wait to see what the guy in front of them does.

[Stephen Coleman]

Well, as long as. Well, again, I. I don't know exact rule other than the fact that when I was playing in things like the Arizona Amateur and stuff like that, they were sticklers.

[John Holmberg]

It'll be interesting.

[Stephen Coleman]

Be ready.

[John Holmberg]

It'll be interesting to see. Because I've never heard of a guy without some catastrophic accident happening.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Scotty, Chef was getting arrested.

[John Holmberg]

Getting arrested's gonna slow you down a little bit. You didn't expect that. And then, you know, like a guy who trips and falls or something happens or it. It doesn't happen.

[Dale Hellistrate]

It'll be fascinating.

[Stephen Coleman]

You know, I just hit the wrong ball in the tournament a month ago. You would think that someone.

[John Holmberg]

Not happy. Yeah.

[Stephen Coleman]

So. And that's why I used to, like, put ink all over my balls to make sure I get the right ball. And I got away from it because it just looked nonsensical. But I think I'm gonna get right

[John Holmberg]

back to it because fashion.

[Stephen Coleman]

So I got terrible eyes, terrible vision, and I hit a ball, like, at the bunker, and I thought I hit it over, but I got there, and the two guys walking up, I said, are any of you guys in the bunker? Yeah. And they said, no. So I go, oh, then that must be me, because I was hit at that, and that must be me.

[John Holmberg]

Right.

[Stephen Coleman]

And peeked down, couldn't see any marks on the ball, and hit it. And when I marked it, after I knocked it on the green, I go, oh, wrong ball. That's too. That's too stroked. Just wasteful. Just wasteful. Should always mark your ball and always make sure it's your ball in a tournament. Just nonsensical.

[John Holmberg]

I just don't understand how hitting the wrong balls. That's cardinal.

[Stephen Coleman]

Even in, like, well, because, again, I can't really see. And those guys said, they're not in the bunker.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Stephen Coleman]

And they go, oh, maybe I was.

[John Holmberg]

And you have a caddy for that. Are you running your own. No.

[Dale Hellistrate]

No bag or you got a push card?

[Stephen Coleman]

No. You can. You can use carts in these stupid tournaments.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Okay.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. But anyway.

[Stephen Coleman]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

It's a weird thing to make.

[Stephen Coleman]

The good thing I did, though, is the other guy was about to hit my ball, and I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[John Holmberg]

You stopped him?

[Stephen Coleman]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Dumb.

[Stephen Coleman]

Yeah. I mean, there's a good question.

[John Holmberg]

I just think that's dumb.

[Stephen Coleman]

Oh.

[John Holmberg]

There's no other way to talk about this.

[Stephen Coleman]

Especially since he goes, I'm not in the bunker.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Oh, man.

[John Holmberg]

He talked you into hitting his ball,

[Stephen Coleman]

and he actually finished in the money.

[John Holmberg]

And then you.

[Stephen Coleman]

And I told him not to. Don't hit it.

[John Holmberg]

You get all moral and realize what you did and. And call the dogs off a two stroker.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah.

[Stephen Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellistrate]

So I think we need to do a special Dave Nash show. On who?

[Stephen Coleman]

On stupidity.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. Oh, my God. The Real Matrix.

[Dale Hellistrate]

You do it every week.

[John Holmberg]

The Real Dumb Matrix. Yeah, I like it. I think that's great.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Okay.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, That's a good one. And the PGA Championship's always fun. And that's the Mother's Day one. What's the Father's Day one?

[Dale Hellistrate]

US Open.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, the US Opens. Those are fun. Those are great.

[Stephen Coleman]

Well, listen, the PGA's only been going on now since last years. Used to be the last major in August. And I think that's right.

[John Holmberg]

They used to run it at the end. Yeah.

[Stephen Coleman]

And I think them changing it was one of the best things they did because by the time the fourth major came along, you know, you went u. S. Open, British open, and. And everyone's like, yeah, who gives it?

[John Holmberg]

Because the big. Already done.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Stephen Coleman]

And now. Well, not yet.

[Dale Hellistrate]

One in April, one of May, one in June, one.

[Stephen Coleman]

I think it's way better. And you get them all done before football takes over. Because it does.

[John Holmberg]

And it's.

[Dale Hellistrate]

It is.

[John Holmberg]

This is a good tournament. And I remember watching a few times when it was. It wasn't late August, and I used to love watching the season kind of end.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

But it was a. It's a fun tournament, but having it on mother's day is great and a father's day one's even better. But golf is in. That's an interesting thing.

[Stephen Coleman]

They had to come up with that stupid phrase, glory's last chance or something. I. I can hear Jim, Nancy.

[John Holmberg]

He always had a call.

[Stephen Coleman]

Oh, it's just. Come on.

[Dale Hellistrate]

It's just.

[Stephen Coleman]

It's a final major f off. Everything's so dramatic.

[John Holmberg]

He's got drama in it and interest and creativity.

[Stephen Coleman]

Well, fourth. Fourth major.

[Dale Hellistrate]

You know, it is a major they almost had.

[Stephen Coleman]

They almost. If you got a drum up interest for it. It's not that major.

[John Holmberg]

It's not drumming up interest. It's the fourth major and he had a call for the end.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah. Hello, friend.

[Stephen Coleman]

I really think. I think it. I think it is also fitting that where golf was originated that should be the last major of the year.

[John Holmberg]

I don't mind that either. I think the British being the last

[Stephen Coleman]

one is pretty soft, even though I hate the British.

[John Holmberg]

But of course, they're horrible.

[Stephen Coleman]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

A tradition like no other. Let's get back to the hockey. Carolina, Colorado have made it so they are head and shoulders above the other teams in hockey right now. And I was saying my favorite time of year with sports that I don't pay attention to all year till the playoffs, starts with the NCAA tournament and then ends with. With NHL. Stanley cup hockey. Usually they're a week or two apart before you're like, all right, here we go.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Right?

[John Holmberg]

This is a tough one because the cup seems like the games are good, but there are two teams that are clearly better than everyone.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Well, I want to ask you guys this question. So you got Carolina. They swept whoever.

[John Holmberg]

They swept it.

[Dale Hellistrate]

They have like the kind of like Oklahoma City. They have not lost yet. But when you look at it, you look at baseball, you always hear, hey, you know what? You win your division, you have a week off. No, no. Baseball player Wants a week off. That kind of throws you out. You kind of have a schedule. Well, I think the same thing is in hockey. Yeah, a couple days to heal up a little bit. But they're going to be sitting around for 10 days.

[Stephen Coleman]

It's a long. Well, we'll see what happens.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, it's almost bad when you're that quick to dispatch somebody and the other games are going.

[Stephen Coleman]

We're talking about how Boston was the President's cup winner, best record in hockey and yeah, had a long layoff before they went in the playoffs and got bounced early.

[John Holmberg]

Eight season happens, takes them down. Yeah, it was. The goaltender was insane, but it was basically like you guys aren't. And just got in their heads a little bit in the first couple games.

[Stephen Coleman]

Like, okay, I'm from Detroit, saw the Red Wings do it in the 90s a couple times. President cup team bounce right away. First round. I think one year is by the expansion San Jose Shark.

[John Holmberg]

So I, that is true with hockey especially. The layoffs are huge and so will. But, but again, it's one of those things where you just watch them going. They're so good. Maybe they get shocked. I don't see anybody beating them four times.

[Stephen Coleman]

Well, I, I think the difference with Carolina is they're just a blue collar lunch pail team. They don't have a lot of jazz or pizzazz. They just go, you know, they just play hard and, and that's easy to get right back into.

[John Holmberg]

There's 15 of them too. Each line that comes at you is as good as the last one. I mean, yeah, they're, they're a team. You just watch hockey and you just know, oh, they're better than the other.

[Stephen Coleman]

Like you just see it come at you and they just keep coming at you. And that's why I love hockey because I really feel the team generally to me that, that plays the hardest, skates the hardest, hits the hardest, wins. Yeah, talent doesn't matter.

[John Holmberg]

And goalies and goaltending, goalie, goalies. I look at Carolina the same way I look at like boxing. I've watched two of their games here recently and I'm like, oh, they're the heavy handed hitter, they're the puncher. They're not a puncher's chance. They're active, hard hitting boxers and you can see that in the heavyweights when a dude punches another guy and the other guy doesn't want it. After a minute you can start seeing, he stops fighting, he starts defending himself. And that's where you see that. Yeah, you see that with Carolina, the other team gets into. I don't need this anymore. Let's get around them, not through them. And Carolina's still coming. I think Colorado's the same, although.

[Dale Hellistrate]

I think so. So those two look like they're on a collision course.

[John Holmberg]

I love it.

[Stephen Coleman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it would be a great series.

[John Holmberg]

That's what I'm hoping for. I'm actually, for the first time ever in Stanley cup hockey, hoping there's no upset. I'm rooting for them to bang into each other. There's good teams in there. There's. There's other teams that would. Would be fun. But this is, this is. You know, when Frazier beat Ali and everybody's like, oh, that screws everything up because we needed the Foreman. And then Foreman beat Frazier. It's like, oh, now it's just this hodgepodge. You wanted the two heavyweights to go. This is clear cut who we thought it was. And somebody upset the apple cart, which actually ended up making it more interesting. But in hockey, like, you want to see these two guys hit?

[Stephen Coleman]

I'm thinking, and I've been thinking about it, that Caroline just comes after, after. But, but, but Colorado can. Can match that speed. And I think they have a lot more talent and, and I think they'll have a big advantage.

[John Holmberg]

It'll all come up to whoever's in that, like, whoever's having a better net. Because I think both their defense, they're just strong teams. It's good. That's going to be a fun one. I. And maybe somebody. Because they're good. Hockey's good enough to have a team come in and just go, the goalie gets hot and you run a team like, and again with the 10 days off and all that, you get a little shaky for a couple games. The next thing you know, you give the other team life. It's what happened in Boston a couple years ago. So it's fun. But this year's the first time I'm like, I don't know. I want to watch that team play that team. And it's very rare. Usually I'll take anybody that shows up because I'm not paying attention to hockey all year. We don't have a team here. So this is the first time I'm watching, going, oh, the best versus the best. And I've always thought that with baseball, too. I get upset with baseball because since the wild card and all that stuff, you can get a team that won 83, 84 games and all of a sudden they're making A run. And the Dodgers, who, I don't mind them getting bounced. 110, 112 games, you get bounced. The Mariners, back in the 90s at 116. They get bounced. Although that was a great series. You kind of want to see the best of the best, not just the hottest team right now, right? Football, yeah. You still want to watch the best, play the best, but it is kind of fun when a team bounces up. I mean, Cardinal fans still celebrate coming in second place in 2000.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Well, that's what the Valley does.

[John Holmberg]

You can't have nice things. That is true. Yeah. They do celebrate being hot at the right time.

[Dale Hellistrate]

At least they didn't have a parade.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, that was so close. And the sun's dead. We're not getting into that. We're talking a little baseball and what's going on with that. And again, I think post Memorial Day is when it starts to matter. It's fun to watch. But it leads me to that thing when baseball's on, do you sit and watch the full game or you just. No, no. And I think ESPN has done that to all of us. Baseball used to be something you'd sit and watch. Now it's like, I don't need to do this anymore.

[Stephen Coleman]

I don't know if baseball has ever been that. Baseball to me was. You go to the game and you're. You're talking to the people you're with and you're having Cracker Jacks and hot dogs and beer and. Oh, and then so. And someone's got a hit and it takes your attention and then you. You're back. It's. Baseball is like secondary, passive. Yeah, yeah.

[John Holmberg]

It's a passive fan sport. You don't intensify. But when it's. When your team's on, you can watch the games. You're not going to watch all 162 games. I don't think anybody would.

[Stephen Coleman]

No. There's people that have no life.

[John Holmberg]

You go and watch. I'll just watch the highlights and stuff. And ESPN's got that going. And it's been since the 90s that I don't think I sit and watch my Cubs play every day I can.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

Because I'm like, I got other things I can do. Maybe it's just being an adult now. I don't know.

[Stephen Coleman]

I actually, for me, the teams I like watching the best is. Is the regards to the stadium. Watching it at.

[John Holmberg]

There's that.

[Stephen Coleman]

I love watching the Red Sox play at Fenway. I love watching the Cubs play at Wrigley Field.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. To me, it's one of the best parks to ever watch a game. And it's unfortunate who plays. There's Pittsburgh. That Pirates Stadium is the nicest unknown. Oh, my God. Have you been there? Maybe.

[Stephen Coleman]

It is, well, incredible.

[John Holmberg]

And then you see it on TV and it's absolutely stunning. And it looks like one of the old parks and it looks over the river and a bridge in the back.

[Stephen Coleman]

Oh, I get it.

[John Holmberg]

Gorgeous. But the Pirates play there.

[Stephen Coleman]

Well, there's no history there. There's no feel to it.

[Dale Hellistrate]

But I do want to ask you guys this, both of you big time baseball guys, and you mentioned it. I want to get Dave's opinion. The pitch clock, the speed of games. Two hours and 15 minutes.

[John Holmberg]

Two games in a week. I watched. We're both under 2 6.

[Stephen Coleman]

Great.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Do you like that?

[Stephen Coleman]

Oh, hell yeah. I was. I was yelling for that for years.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Okay, now, what about the ABS system? The challenge system?

[Stephen Coleman]

I love that too.

[John Holmberg]

Let's.

[Stephen Coleman]

Let's move.

[John Holmberg]

I like that the umpires can say no. And that one guy a couple nights ago had two challenges, like, too late. And it was almost immediate. Like the batter was like challenging, goes, nope, nobody's talking. And the umpire still have the right to go, no.

[Stephen Coleman]

Really?

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. If they, if you hesitate.

[Stephen Coleman]

I did not know that.

[John Holmberg]

Hesitate half a second to get the review, and he's like, now you waited too long.

[Stephen Coleman]

Wow.

[John Holmberg]

Because what they're trying to avoid is him looking at the dugout.

[Stephen Coleman]

Good point.

[John Holmberg]

Because.

[Stephen Coleman]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Because if he looks at the dugout and they have the box on the screen or anybody. Because I sat in the third base dugout seats for Mother's Day at the Diamondback.

[Stephen Coleman]

Yeah, of course you did.

[John Holmberg]

And there's. Well, you know, I get friends. And there's 20 TVs in there that are doing the broadcast.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

And the guys in the dugout can sneak a peek of our TV and see the square on TV and go, that was a strike.

[Stephen Coleman]

Sure.

[John Holmberg]

And then do the thing.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

They can get it out there. So the quickest thing is the, the catcher or the batter have to go, no, no way. Like right away. And tap their head.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Okay.

[John Holmberg]

It's. It's a good. I just say kill that system, though. I don't, I don't care for that at all. Who cares? Let the umpire make his mistakes and move on. But two hour and 16 minute games. Oh, my God. That is baseball.

[Stephen Coleman]

I'm for just automated strikes and get, Get.

[John Holmberg]

No issue with that. That would speed it up even.

[Stephen Coleman]

That's going to be more AI doing away with human jobs.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Governments could get good.

[John Holmberg]

Let AI take all our jobs. We can sit back and let the robots work while we just swim and play and dance.

[Stephen Coleman]

And where are you going to get the money from?

[John Holmberg]

You don't need it.

[Stephen Coleman]

Really.

[John Holmberg]

An abundance of everything. Because you'll have a 24 hour workforce in every field. We'll get into that in the real dumb matrix. Let's talk basketball. The W or the W? It's looking like the wnba. Dale's got a big thing. Wemby for the Spurs. Oh, now this. You hit a nerve this morning on my show when you talked about the Suns back in. What was that?

[Dale Hellistrate]

06 06, 07 08. Whatever year that was playing the Spurs. Yes.

[John Holmberg]

And it was the playoffs. It wasn't the conference finals. It was a division.

[Dale Hellistrate]

It was at least the second round playoffs.

[John Holmberg]

And Robert Horry. The Suns are working the spurs pretty good.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

And they've got a deep bench. Boris DL is playing lights out. He was a big man. They had Amari Stoudemire in the middle. Steve Namish. They're shooting lights out. They're deep bench. They're playing a team that had kind of established themselves as the best fundamentally. And Robert Ori goes over while the game's a little bit in question and just smashes Steve Nash into broadcasting. Yes. Son's bench stands up. You know, a little scuffle ensues. Obviously the players that are on the court are allowed to do it, but a couple of guys on the bench get up and walk towards the mess

[Dale Hellistrate]

and their foot touched the court, went over the line.

[John Holmberg]

In fact, I think it was Boris DL that didn't really walk too far. He just kind of leaned over, went on to the court.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

Anybody that walked on the court missed the next game.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

That was a crucial. I think you're right. I think it was game six.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Crucial of the league to say two of your starters are out.

[Dale Hellistrate]

David Stern said you have two games to win one.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. And basically told him, all right, you still have two to get your. You've won three.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

You let this one get out of hand with that mess. We're going to blank you on this neck. It was a huge call. And the spurs end up winning the next two.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

This thing with Wemby the other night, in a series that's been a little topsy turvy, it seems like the spurs are the better team. Minnesota can play, but they're kind of the teemu Oklahoma City like they should be. Better than they actually are. And running over people. They can. Wemby throws that elbow out of frustration. So if you had a Dennis Rodman type right here, you just realize, oh, you can get in his head.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Not. Okay, go for it.

[John Holmberg]

No, I was going to say the elbow was a legitimate anger elbow. That was not an accident.

[Dale Hellistrate]

It was premeditated. It was. No, it was not. I grabbed, rebound. I kind of did this. Yeah, it was a. I see you.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellistrate]

I rear back and I elbow you in the neck.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Above the shoulders. Yeah. Which is a flagrant. Flagrant, Flagrant. Anything above that, which I. Whether you agree with it or not, and to not. I heard all these people immediately. Oh, well, he's missing the second half. That's punishment enough. That's ridiculous.

[John Holmberg]

Selling them. I'll tell you this. And it's a way to lead into the people that help us do this. Tactical Black. Go to tacticalblack.com for self defense needs. You can't match. The first thing you do when you get something behind you is spot your target.

[Stephen Coleman]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

You spot your target for an elbow. You spot your target for anything. You also look over your shoulder for guns and where they teach you everything. And if it's a hand in your back and there's a gun here, the gun in your back and there's a hand here, you do different things. Wemby spotted his target. He looked over with his elbow up, like, I have intention of hitting. Whatever. Where is it? And then when he threw it. And he threw it with intention.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

And that's. To me, I go right back to Dennis Rodman and Alonzo Mourning. When I saw Wemby do that, I thought, as a coach, I'm furious at Wemby or I'm furious at. Yeah, at Wemby. If I'm dispersed because what I just saw, if I'm the coach of the other team, we like, we're crawling in his head. This guy's young, he's excitable. This is his first run through this. Where's. Where's my bad guy?

[Dale Hellistrate]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

Who's going to stand sideways on the free throws and talk to him? Who's going to soften up his brain throughout? Because if you're willing to do that and not think at all of your team of the suspension. He didn't know he wasn't going to get suspended. That could have been super dangerous. Yeah, that could have been a 2 gamer. And you look at it a couple times, it's like, all right, I hate suspensions. Most of the time. You and I talked about it this morning and I kind of changed my mind a little bit based on that Suns thing because you're like, yeah, that wasn't right.

[Dale Hellistrate]

That right.

[John Holmberg]

Be consistent. If I'm, if I'm Minnesota, I want him out there. I'm sitting there. I, I, I want.

[Dale Hellistrate]

You want 2814.

[John Holmberg]

I want, I want. Because the next time we get under his skin, he is getting suspended and I'm fighting, I'm using Randall, I'm using all sorts of dudes that we gotta have one dude on the bench that can talk, that'll just go out there and just say, you've got carte blanche, man. Say whatever you, if you get kicked out, I'm fine. Go out there and get under his skin. Play him physical. He's physical. He can play. But now we know that when he's frustrated, he reacts and he reacts without thinking about the team or the future.

[Dale Hellistrate]

And I, and I love the way you're going about this mentally and all that. But then there's the facts.

[John Holmberg]

Well, he's gonna play either way. So the facts are.

[Dale Hellistrate]

No, no, the facts are he shouldn't have been playing in the following.

[John Holmberg]

True.

[Dale Hellistrate]

That. That was like if there was a clear cut cake. Because I do agree that a lot of suspensions and these flagrants and we need to review. He blew on him and we need to review that. But this was. I don't need to review anything. No, it wasn't an invert elbow. It wasn't a, it wasn't a accident or it was a blow above the head, above the shoulders to another player.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, it's a suspendable offense. And I don't like suspensions. I don't like series turning because. But he was dumb. Yes. And sometimes dumb needs to get pushed back. But man, I would love to see them go after him mentally because he's the type of guy that his whole career can be defined. Alonzo Mourning was a badass till he stood next to Dennis Rodman and could not take another word and fought him on a free throw. Like he turned to grab him and then realized, I can't do anything about this guy.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

And Denis, I remember that game where they were, they were lining up for the free throw and he just turned towards him and started talking and Alonzo's hands went to his knees and Dennis just grabbed a rebound over his head before Alonzo realized the game was back on. And it was like, he's got him. There's, you know that in football when, when a guy talks oh, yeah. He's like. And he knows Michael Irvin, I'm sure. Knew. I got him. Oh, yeah, I got him. You know when you got a guy just talking. I got him. Like, I'm in his head. And nobody could get in Michael's head. Maybe Dion to a certain degree, because they're pretty even up on that. Who's going to bark harder? But I love watching that. The chess game within the game. So the Wemby thing, I think the old NBA changes everything. The new NBA is like, he'll be all right. I would try so hard to get him off his. Off his melon. Because he's young. He's young.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Okay. So having said that, we've talked enough about that. What is the NBA going to do about Oklahoma City?

[John Holmberg]

Nothing.

[Dale Hellistrate]

What are they going to do about Oklahoma City?

[John Holmberg]

They move them back to a major market is what they need to do. They've got a problem on their hands that Oklahoma City is about to be a champion seven or eight times the next 10 years.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Their second best player didn't even play in this series.

[John Holmberg]

No.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Jalen Williams.

[John Holmberg]

And they introduced a new superstar. And A.J. mitchell. Yes.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah. He was sitting on the bench most of the year. Oh, I get to play.

[John Holmberg]

He's insane. And he's, like, dominant. Anybody they plug in is better than the guy they had in there a second ago. And you're right. Their second best players watching.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

What are they going to do about Oklahoma City? They better embrace it.

[Stephen Coleman]

Yeah. They have to embrace it and make it say. And make. Make people realize. You will not see this domination again in your lifetime.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, probably not.

[Stephen Coleman]

And then. So just like Tiger woods, people loved him or people hated him. Yankees, people love him or hate him. Oklahoma City should be the. You love them or hate them? Because. Really?

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Stephen Coleman]

For. For me, as a. Whatever.

[John Holmberg]

Passive.

[Stephen Coleman]

They're. They're like. That's why I feel about them, man.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, I know.

[Stephen Coleman]

Yeah. They're the best team.

[John Holmberg]

They're gonna win. If they were In New York, L.A. chicago.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Totally different. Animal.

[Stephen Coleman]

Agree.

[John Holmberg]

Totally different.

[Stephen Coleman]

So they've got to manufacture the fact that you either love this team or hate it. Hate them. And you gotta. You gotta. You gotta bring some storylines.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Well, they tried to manufacture the mate with the. Okay. SAG flops and he drops fouls and

[Stephen Coleman]

he just get in line with everyone else in the NBA.

[John Holmberg]

I mean, LeBron James made a career of acting like he got hit when nobody touched him and getting whistles. So the flop thing doesn't. What I think they hate about Sga is he gets to spaces that aren't the popular game anymore. He's a mid range shooter. He gets to the elbow, he gets the 12 footer and he makes people look weird and hit him while he just hits this bunny. And he's basically looked at the league and said, oh, everybody's standing out there. I'll just. Chris Paul did it. Chris Paul was great. It grabbed my spot, hit my 12 footer.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Elbow jump.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, you're going to be in an awkward spot chasing my, my side. So if I stop fast, you're going to hit me and I'm going to hit this little elbow. It's, it's, it's magic to me to watch somebody manipulate a game with the basics. The spurs were boring, but back when Popovich coached them, that was amazing to watch. And those guys were just fundamentally making.

[Dale Hellistrate]

If it was anybody but Popovich and the Spurs, I'd appreciate a hell of

[John Holmberg]

a lot because, yeah, that was tough to like, it was really tough to. But it was also one of those, like, the league was trying to be flashy and fun and they're like, no. And they happened to wear black and white uniforms and be the most black and white thing that ever walked on a court. I think Oklahoma City's borrowing a little of that. Yeah, I think they've got a little of that San Antonio spurs dynasty.

[Dale Hellistrate]

And on top of it, you sit here and go, okay, so they, they won the championship last year. Yeah, we're going to win it this year.

[John Holmberg]

Probably.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Oh, guess what? We've got five or six or seven first round picks.

[John Holmberg]

They just got in the lottery. They got the 10th or 11th pick or something.

[Dale Hellistrate]

12th pick, I don't remember.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, it's a deep draft. They're going to get another player that's going to contribute immediately. And with their other top picks, they can probably move this up if they've got their eye on somebody. And they are.

[Dale Hellistrate]

I heard somebody talking about Giannis maybe going there and I'm like, well, first of all, why would you do that if you're Oklahoma City mess that up?

[John Holmberg]

No, but I think Dagnolt's a good coach. I think what they have there is a lot better than people. You don't think so? You shaking your head at that? No, I think anybody can coach this team.

[Stephen Coleman]

No, I was thinking when, when you have a good thing, it's only idiots that say, let's try to make it better. Yeah, it was, it was. The Suns were, were right on the edge of a championship. Team would go, you know, What? Let's blow all this up and bring in Kevin Durant. I thought it was the dumbest thing ever. And they're going to any team that Rockets. I can't believe the Rockets took that loser off the Sun's hands.

[John Holmberg]

But. But let's remember the Sun's last playoff run was not the championship. Before they made that move, they got absolutely drubbed out of the playoffs and exposed that their two wing guys that everybody here in Phoenix loved, Cam and Mikel, were only going to be what they are, which are support players. And everybody wanted them to come up and be like superstars. They're just not. And they're proving that in New York and Denver right now that they're really good teammates and good to have on your team. But they're with Chris Paul going into year whatever. It was 33.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

You had to recognize we have to make a move here. I still don't mind the Suns making that move for Kevin Durant because they weren't still going up.

[Dale Hellistrate]

I don't mind the Kevin Durant deal. Despise the Bradley Beal deal.

[John Holmberg]

That was a mess.

[Dale Hellistrate]

And I think that's what really put them over the edge.

[John Holmberg]

But you look at like, again, go back to Oklahoma City. The GM is a genius. Start pouring the statue now.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Sam Presti.

[John Holmberg]

Brilliant and was brilliant four years ago when he started this plan. And it's worked out perfectly. They're going to be around for a little bit. I look at that and I kind of like it. I don't mind that because you got another team coming up right behind him in San Antonio again. But it's fun to watch you get into what moves can be made. I've seen LeBron going to Oklahoma City next year. I've seen a couple of people talking. Zion Williamson's all over the place with where he's going to end up.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Zion Williams. I also heard him come to the

[John Holmberg]

sun, the Suns, which is what do you give up?

[Dale Hellistrate]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

And what risk do you take to a guy that sometimes plays 32 games a year and has got. Other than last year, he's got severe problems staying in shape.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah. Hey, whenever you have a triple, McDonald's, Big Mac named after you. They didn't even do that for Nash. And they could have.

[John Holmberg]

No, the triple wouldn't have been enough. But you look at Zion and you're like, all right, this guy is so fat that in college his shoe quit on him, if you remember. Right. Like he took a step and it's like Nike couldn't build A shoe strong enough structurally in engineering, like it's a faulty shoe. I'm like, that's never happened ever. That's a fat guy running too hard. But when he's good, yes, man, he dominates a game. So do I mind if the Suns make that trade?

[Dale Hellistrate]

Like you said, it all depends on who you are.

[John Holmberg]

What are you giving up? And you don't have a lot of draft picks, so it's going to be player based, right. And you're going to take on a ton of money. Is it time that the Devin Booker talk happens? I don't think they do that. Then you're pairing up a 2 max players. Jalen Green might go. You get rid of some of the bench guys and you just got to.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Would you mind seeing Jalen Green go? You went to a lot of games this year.

[John Holmberg]

Jalen Green is Poor man's Anthony Edwards. He's got all the energy of Anthony Edwards. He's got the game of Anthony Edwards. You just can't be consistent. So I think he's like the ant man, except athletically. I talked to Kevin Ray, the Sun's announcer, and I said, what's the closest thing we've had to this? And he goes, I don't know that we ever have. The closest I think we ever came up with was Cedric Ceballos when he was in his run as a point a minute man, right? Like, that dude was unstoppable for a minute. Maybe Amari Stoudemire had the athleticism, but different position, different size, right? Jalen's there. It's just when he's off, he's terrible. He doesn't. And you got to have a guy that, if you're going to put him in a position of being the leader, needs to be SGA. Well, even off days, he's 24 points, right? You just have to have that, right? Not zero.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Here's the thing that chapped my rear end was I read an article to talk about. They need to get rid of. I just forgot his name.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Stephen Coleman]

Jalen.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, Jalen Green.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Jalen Green to make Devin Booker more comfortable.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, well, there's a lot of that going on.

[Dale Hellistrate]

What on earth are you talking about?

[John Holmberg]

Devin got his team this year. Devin was very much the catalyst to be like, if it's going to be mine, here's what we need, right? Kevin Durant thing didn't work out. Chris Paul isn't there an extra year because Devon can handle the point. And I'm like, no, they don't have a point guard. They haven't had a point guard. No. And not since Chris Paul. And that's asking a lot. But Chris Paul was on his last legs when the Suns got him. They thought. They thought the team we had this year would be the team that Chris Paul led to the finals.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

Six, seven seed. Maybe dance around the playoffs a little better. Do some team was great. And then the next year they won 63, 64 games and get crushed in the playoffs because it was exposed as a. Oh, you have too many flaws to keep going. So I didn't mind that the trade for Zion Williamson doesn't feel as knee jerk to me.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

Because nobody's. Well, again with Phoenix history. Nobody's in love with Jalen Green.

[Dale Hellistrate]

No.

[John Holmberg]

The only person the city loses their mind if we trade is Devin Book.

[Stephen Coleman]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

Dylan Brooks gets traded. People like, I kind of like what he brought to the team.

[Dale Hellistrate]

He's been here a year, but he's

[John Holmberg]

been here for a year. He's not tied to the team. So you bring in a Zion Williamson and people will be like, oh, this. You know, you have the people immediately saying, this stinks. That dude's a dominant player if he's healthy.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

But that is a massive capital I and capital F. He is never healthy for a season.

[Stephen Coleman]

Think you got to get him out of New Orleans with those beignets.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, maybe that. Oh, you get. Yeah. And get him over here with the churros.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Get him over here with the Scottsdale girls drinking. He'll be great. Scottsdale will not be affecting Zion at all because, you know, mentally he's so strong to stay away from vices. Then the NFL schedule is coming out as we do this. And again, the Steelers are on five primetime games because people love greatness and they need to see it.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Who's on more, Dallas or Pittsburgh?

[John Holmberg]

By far, I don't even think Dallas has games on tv.

[Stephen Coleman]

They came out the schedule already.

[John Holmberg]

No, but they're leaking it, which I find hysterical because the big news over the last three weeks has been like, oh, my God, Mike Vrabel may have leaked information to a reporter and that's all they're doing to sell their stupid schedule release when the only time nobody talks about the NFL is May. So they do the schedule release and then cause the soap opera around it like, oh, they've leaked.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Well, there's a local station here in Phoenix who spent many a segment talking about what's the ideal Cardinal schedule. I don't care how you stack them up, they're going to win three or four games.

[John Holmberg]

I'll tell you this. The Cardinals best schedule would be that they could play the Cardinals a couple times a year. That would guarantee them a win or two. Cardinals open up against the Chargers. They're getting bounced. That's in la. The opening game got released and I don't. And this is the thing I think they're going to do with this schedule, because it's not due out till later today, is that they're leaking games. And then the ultimate, like, switcheroo would be like, don't trust the leaks. Here's the real schedule. Like, it's this subversive kind of like, oh, you think you got leaks to kind of quell the whole variable leak thing. It's like, no, don't trust these experts. We are the only ones who know. So they're leaking out false. Because the opening game is the Patriots and Seahawks.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah. Well, it's a rematch of the Super Bowl.

[John Holmberg]

Who wants that right away?

[Dale Hellistrate]

They've done it many times before.

[John Holmberg]

I know a couple. Last time they did, I think it was Denver Carolina and they realized nobody wants that again. Like, what you want is a rematch of the championship games. That's fun. I remember, I remember the Cowboys played Buffalo in the opener after you guys beat him in the super bowl and they just trounced you. No.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah, they beat us 10 to 3.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You guys couldn't get off the field. I knew you were going to defend it. They beat you, though.

[Stephen Coleman]

And that was.

[John Holmberg]

I think it was that Emmett wasn't playing that.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah, he was thrown.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, you guys were. They sucked and Buffalo took them down and said, see, this is the type of game we should.

[Dale Hellistrate]

They marched off the field hooping and hollers like it's a season open.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, we'll be all right. And you were. You ended up being just fine. But then. But I. I like the ones where the team that got bounced out a year earlier, that was that close. Like, if Buffalo with Josh Allen plays the Chiefs, the. That's a great opener. I think the Ravens in Buffalo played maybe the best game of the year first week last year. There was a lot of good games. That was unbelievable. And it was two teams that were trying to get to the super bowl and couldn't. They were the on the cusp teams. Those are the fun ones to me. I don't want to see. That wasn't a good super bowl anyway. No, I don't really see a rivalry with the Patriots and Seahawks. I really. Maybe the two you know, New England and Seattle do, because they've been there twice. But I don't know, it just doesn't seem to interest me as much.

[Stephen Coleman]

I'm sorry. Dari tell you my, my bet to, to win the Super Bowl?

[John Holmberg]

Not to win the Super Bowl.

[Stephen Coleman]

Well, to, to get to the Super Bowl.

[John Holmberg]

Who is it?

[Stephen Coleman]

I, I went off of the, the NFL.

[John Holmberg]

The teams. There's 110 players on each team. You already bet the Super Bowl?

[Stephen Coleman]

Well, to get to the Super Bowl, I. Have you heard of the. This is kind of wacky.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Imagine that.

[Stephen Coleman]

Have you heard of the. When, when this, when the NFL puts out the Super Bowl.

[John Holmberg]

Charlie Kirk involved in this? No. Okay.

[Stephen Coleman]

Puts out the super bowl logo.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, yeah.

[Stephen Coleman]

The colors.

[John Holmberg]

Yes, yes. Oh, you did tell us.

[Stephen Coleman]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Wasn't it the Rams and. No, because last year, I think Patriots and Seahawks were first in line.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah. They had a player from every team. It was like eight, seven, six.

[John Holmberg]

The last two were those two.

[Stephen Coleman]

Well, I, I, I. The colors I see are maroon and, or, excuse me, red and yellow and then like aqua. Aqua blue. And the two teams, Miami.

[Dale Hellistrate]

No, well, and Washington.

[Stephen Coleman]

Well, you need to say Miami. You could say Jacksonville, who was 12, had 12 wins last year.

[John Holmberg]

Let's Give me your money.

[Stephen Coleman]

So I took Jacksonville and I took the red and gold. I took the Niners.

[John Holmberg]

Niners, Jacksonville.

[Stephen Coleman]

I already bet it, so.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Is that mean you're stupid?

[Stephen Coleman]

Maybe.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Stephen Coleman]

But, but, you know, you do put

[John Holmberg]

a significant amount of money on this. No, no, no.

[Dale Hellistrate]

All I know. All I know is the season open weekend. You got Cowboys, Giants, Sunday night.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. I think all openers should be in division. I think all openers should be in division. I think that's the way to kick off the whole season. I think, because it's such an important thing later in the year to have division wins.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

Start somebody off.

[Dale Hellistrate]

You know, it's interesting because, like, both of you guys have kind of said, as far as baseball. May. Yeah. April, May. It's like.

[Stephen Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellistrate]

You're just finding your foot. Jimmy used to always hammer that into us. Hey, when In September. Means now you're not having to win one in. In December.

[John Holmberg]

Force one out.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

In a hostile environment.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. Get your wins early. Stack them early. Yeah, I agree with that. That's Mike Tomlin's old thing. Stack wins.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

Three and one in September is awesome because it's. It makes two and two in December better.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah.

[Stephen Coleman]

My Niner bet for $200 pays $1900.

[John Holmberg]

That's pretty good.

[Stephen Coleman]

And you don't think The Niners can get to the Super Bowl. Sure.

[John Holmberg]

I think everybody can get Super bowl. Right now, there's 110 players on each roster.

[Dale Hellistrate]

There have been no injuries.

[John Holmberg]

Nothing's happened. If you want to start talking about paper Super Bowls. Yeah, the Lions could make it, the Bears could. There's a lot of teams.

[Stephen Coleman]

Okay.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. But their.

[Stephen Coleman]

Their team's color isn't on the thing. All right, there you go.

[John Holmberg]

Talking to my mom, betting on that. But it is kind of a down. It is kind of a down time for football and stuff like that. So I wanted to bring this up because I'm watching old movies again. I'm trying to watch old movies just to kill some time, because, again, I like watching old movies. So I'm going through. I'm going through a new.

[Stephen Coleman]

How old?

[John Holmberg]

One I watched the other night was 1955.

[Stephen Coleman]

Okay. You go about all the way back to the 30s.

[John Holmberg]

I can. I have.

[Stephen Coleman]

See, I'm a big James Cagney fan.

[John Holmberg]

They're great movies.

[Stephen Coleman]

I. I like watching his old Cagney

[John Holmberg]

movies are great because you can see what it ended up becoming then.

[Stephen Coleman]

You know, I also liked Joan Blondell.

[John Holmberg]

Okay.

[Stephen Coleman]

I never really watched her, but, I mean, I. I was. Every time I saw her goes, oh, she's cute. She's kind of fun.

[John Holmberg]

See McGroucher march, guys.

[Stephen Coleman]

So they had. They had the thing on the. The Movie channel, Joan. I. I kind of just.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Stephen Coleman]

And then I went back to watch them. They're the worst movies I've ever seen in my life.

[John Holmberg]

Because you have to look at them from the scope of what they were at the time versus comparing them to now. Right. Because if you watch what they became, like this invented a genre.

[Stephen Coleman]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

You're like, wow, I see what they were doing there. It's the building blocks, really. Yeah.

[Stephen Coleman]

I just think. I just think, hey, let's just put anything on film. And people don't do anything now in the 30s, so they'll come and watch this nonsense.

[John Holmberg]

It's very true.

[Stephen Coleman]

I really think that's what it was

[John Holmberg]

about, some of that.

[Dale Hellistrate]

See, and I always think, like, this stuff in the 70s and 80s, when they were starting to do the dynamic effects and all that special effects, and

[John Holmberg]

they started to talk like we talk. It wasn't like, all right, everybody, we're going over here now.

[Stephen Coleman]

Let's go.

[John Holmberg]

And, like, you're. You start talking.

[Stephen Coleman]

So true.

[John Holmberg]

You start talking like a human being. And. And I watched a movie just recently called the Friends of Eddie Coyle with Robert Mitchum came out in 73 Gritty street, they're cussing, they're talking about horrible things. You're like, whoa, this movie's kind of dark for the time, but I want to watch a sports movie that everybody doesn't talk about.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Okay.

[John Holmberg]

You know, a movie that comes to mind. That was your favorite sports movie as a kid. Everybody's got Caddyshack, the Natural. You know, those kind of movies were like, is there one that stands out to you that you're like, man, this thing is unreal. Like, it's football. It doesn't matter what. Just any of them.

[Dale Hellistrate]

I'll tell you one that jumps to mind for me was probably the first one that I took a strong interest in. And maybe the first time I cried. Brian's Song.

[John Holmberg]

Brian's Song.

[Stephen Coleman]

Great example, because you're right. Seeing it, first time I saw it, I cried.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Stephen Coleman]

I watched it again a couple years later. A couple years ago. I was laughing how bad the acting was.

[John Holmberg]

Not good. I laughed.

[Stephen Coleman]

It is not good. I mean, it's terrible. I mean, I was like, what was I crying about? These guys are clowns.

[John Holmberg]

And as a fan of only one team in football and hating all the rest, I found that movie hysterical because it's one Less Bear.

[Stephen Coleman]

Okay, perfect.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Good.

[John Holmberg]

They were sad.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Whoa.

[Stephen Coleman]

James Caan was so bad.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, it's. It's.

[Dale Hellistrate]

You know, Billy Dee Williams is.

[John Holmberg]

Well, he was.

[Stephen Coleman]

He wasn't even that bad because he played Gail Sayers, who allegedly doesn't talk much.

[John Holmberg]

No.

[Stephen Coleman]

So he didn't say anything. So it's great. You couldn't really screw up not talking.

[Dale Hellistrate]

I love you, Brian.

[Stephen Coleman]

James Kahn.

[John Holmberg]

I say it all the time. Look, the movie's script was fairly weak. The story was really strong.

[Stephen Coleman]

You know, if he sent in his tape to Martin Scorsese or whoever the hell did Godfather.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Stephen Coleman]

He'd have never got the role.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, to go. Oh, that was a Francis Ford co. Yeah.

[Stephen Coleman]

He would say, get the hell out of here with that nonsense.

[John Holmberg]

That's a good one. But is that It's. Is it a sports movie? Yes, yes. Chicago Bears and George Hallison cancer movie. One I'm going to bring up to you that I find hysterical, but it holds up.

[Stephen Coleman]

Is it like some roller derby movie?

[John Holmberg]

No. Although don't get me started. There's James Kahn's in one of those two. What's it called? Rollerball.

[Stephen Coleman]

Thunderbolt.

[John Holmberg]

Thunderbolt or something like that. Yeah. A great movie that no one talks about. It's such. It would never happen today. It's called Paper lion with With Alan Alda. Alan Alda plays the. The sports writer.

[Stephen Coleman]

Oh, that's George Flimpton.

[John Holmberg]

Writer George Plimpton. He wasn't even a sports guy. He just loved it. And the Lions let this writer play in camp.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

And they do a great job of showing, like. And then Alex Karras is being an act.

[Stephen Coleman]

That's why. That's why he went into blazing sales and said, hey, look at this guy's much better than James Caan. They were going to actually hire James, kind of go, no, no, no. We already saw Brian Song. You're terrible.

[John Holmberg]

You need to remake Paper lion because it doesn't hold up for today's standards. But the story of what they did in Detroit, allowing George Plimpton to just see what it's like from a firsthand perspective of being in an NFL camp tells you two things. NFL camps used to just be fat guys showing up for work, and anybody could get in there and have a chance. As opposed to now, where you, like, what was the thing you told me the first thing you had to run was 18 sprints.

[Dale Hellistrate]

18 110s.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, the 110s. Like, come on. Writer's not breaking off, you know, in July.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah. But do you. But do you know something real quick? I don't know where that movie came out, but I was drafted in 85.

[Stephen Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellistrate]

And it wasn't until about 1980 or 81 where players started making enough money.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellistrate]

That they didn't have to have a second job in the off season. It was like, okay. And then that's why train camp was six weeks.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellistrate]

So we work ourselves into shape.

[John Holmberg]

But you think about, like, all that stuff is.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Who could. Who could possibly. What team would ever do that?

[Dale Hellistrate]

And we've done.

[John Holmberg]

We see it in baseball. And, you know, Garth Brooks played for no reason at all. Took a roster spot from somebody for a couple of games. Weird stuff like that will never happen again.

[Stephen Coleman]

Oh, I wouldn't.

[John Holmberg]

It will never happen.

[Stephen Coleman]

We just saw Russell Wilson play banana ball. Come on. Well, that I'm. It's right there.

[John Holmberg]

Retired players doing dopey stuff. Fine with it. But will there ever be another, you know, reporter that wanders in?

[Dale Hellistrate]

That's how much do hard knocks and allow you to have a camera around.

[John Holmberg]

You had a dude in there playing quarterback for the Lions for no reason at all. And the other players were like, this is fine. That means that the plays were basic, and the players were like, hey, we're serious about our careers here. Why is this guy even. Why are we Even playing around with this. Why am I risking injury on plays? And for this idiot. And you watch that movie and you realize all the work that went into what he did, it's unreal. I want to see it again. But we never will. We never will. And I also want to know this. How was anybody good at sports before tv? How in the world did a kid in, you know, some small town in Iowa ever learn how to throw a football?

[Stephen Coleman]

I. I always told my kids this. I said, you want to learn to do. Just watch. You gotta watch, watch, watch the best do it and then just do what they're doing. Yeah, but, like, intimidate, imitate that.

[John Holmberg]

The. The. The fundamentals and mechanics of pitching. You couldn't learn that, right? Without seeing it.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Well, we were. You're younger than us, but a lot. You only had, like, the Saturday game of the week.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, one game.

[Dale Hellistrate]

There was like, one game a week you could actually watch on tv.

[John Holmberg]

And prior to that, yeah, they were grainy at best. And then prior to that, there wasn't TV at all. You think about 1920s and 30s baseball. Nobody saw.

[Stephen Coleman]

That's why they weren't very good.

[John Holmberg]

They were horrible.

[Stephen Coleman]

They weren't very good.

[John Holmberg]

Horrible at the game. But you see those guys pitching, it's like, who taught them this? Because I was five when my dad taught me how to play, and I was watching tv, learning. Oh, I see what he means.

[Stephen Coleman]

I love watching old film of those baseball players play at that time. And they got the windmill wind up and all kind of not. I'm like, who put this together?

[Dale Hellistrate]

But guess what? They didn't have Tommy John surgeries.

[Stephen Coleman]

No, no, they did not, because I think they only threw, like, 80 miles an hour.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, but they threw 170,000. They did not have pitch counts. It's weird. They did because you watch these old movies and nobody cared about, you know, hey, this has got to be secret. These plays are. It was just mashing fat guys against each other and hoping that one team was better than the rest. The Lions and Bears, they ran the same plays. Everybody knew what the other team was. Just that guy with the ball hit him. And now it's just so fundamentally different of, you know, and you even see the difference. And this was one thing about Paper lion that I thought was great, is they didn't teach him anything but a snap count. And now it's like, you know, 52 is the mic. We're on this. The guy's in motion. They didn't do anything. It's as simple as somebody Coming off the streets going, we can show you in about a week everything we know. It's just whether it's.

[Stephen Coleman]

Watch it.

[John Holmberg]

It's not a great movie. But watch that movie as a sports. Every sports movie, right. And you're like, this is about the sport and man, oh man, is it different. It's crazy. Other than that, the basics hold.

[Dale Hellistrate]

You know, white man can't jump.

[John Holmberg]

That's a good one. It's actually better than people. Not the new one. They did a new one.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Oh, did they?

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, the old white man can't jump.

[Dale Hellistrate]

So.

[John Holmberg]

And the fish that save Pittsburgh. It's a basketball movie.

[Stephen Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellistrate]

There's no basketball in Pittsburgh.

[John Holmberg]

This fish saved that. It was a. You got saved.

[Dale Hellistrate]

No basketball.

[John Holmberg]

There was a basketball team.

[Stephen Coleman]

I'd rather watch real sports than watch a movie about sports.

[John Holmberg]

We still watch. You know, Paul Durham is a great baseball movie about the love of baseball. There's very few movies that I'd consider a baseball movie. It usually has like Brian's Song. It's a friendship movie. It's about. It's just football as its theme. But it's not about football. Bull Durham is about baseball.

[Stephen Coleman]

Yeah. It probably comes as close to describing like minor league life.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Stephen Coleman]

I give you some stories that we had those buses and they were like old bus where you put the luggage up on top.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Stephen Coleman]

We would sleep up there.

[John Holmberg]

On top of the bus?

[Stephen Coleman]

No, on top of the. In the luggage rack. Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, oh, oh. Really? Yes. How small were you guys? You weren't.

[Stephen Coleman]

You're on a. We didn't even have. When I played. I played the leagues. I played in Cal League, Northwest League. We didn't have long bus rides. Thank God. I think the longest bus ride I had a six, seven hours. I'm telling. There's people played in the. The Pioneer League up like in Montana, they'd have 14, 16 hour bus rides.

[John Holmberg]

Florida leagues were huge. Like running those guys. Yeah.

[Stephen Coleman]

But Florida's not. There's still compact Cal League. We went up and down Cal, but. But we are. We were stationed out of Fresno, so we're kind of right. Right in the middle.

[John Holmberg]

We didn't get it. But you were raisin. Were they called the Raisins?

[Stephen Coleman]

No, we were the Fresno Sun.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, oh, okay. All right. I remember name.

[Stephen Coleman]

I remember the jersey well that was the. Our first. Our first game there where they kind of. It's not game.

[John Holmberg]

They.

[Stephen Coleman]

They media comes out. You meet someone, they do a little lunch or something and the. And the. The Fresno Raisin was there.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Stephen Coleman]

Throwing raisins Raisins.

[John Holmberg]

And Fresno. Yeah. It's a massive raisin. Yeah. You didn't know that, Dale?

[Dale Hellistrate]

No.

[John Holmberg]

Fresno. Yes. Yeah. All right. Well, that's interesting.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yeah. That's it.

[Stephen Coleman]

But. But those bus rides. I mean, those buses. Can you imagine being on a bus?

[John Holmberg]

No.

[Stephen Coleman]

For 10, 12 hours.

[John Holmberg]

No.

[Stephen Coleman]

Ever. Right.

[John Holmberg]

An hour is too much. I'd quit. I'd just go get a job as a garbage man. I'm not gonna. No. My dream dies on the bus at smu.

[Dale Hellistrate]

If we played Baylor, which an hour and a half, we'd take a bus. And the one thing I learned. I'm sure you knew this. You learned very quickly. I'm a freshman.

[John Holmberg]

Don't sit by the bathroom.

[Dale Hellistrate]

No, don't. Well, that's number. That is one. But number two, when you fall asleep, fall asleep with your mouth open.

[John Holmberg]

Although you're getting some.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Oh, you're getting chew and gum and some of the stuff I saw them put in people's mouths. Even today, if I'm on an airplane or something, I'm sleeping.

[John Holmberg]

Sleep down, stay down, cover all.

[Stephen Coleman]

You know what? We never did any of that because, one, we're baseball players, so we. We have a brain, unlike football players that had their head up their ass. But two, I mean, if someone did that, all of a sudden, you're gonna have a fight on the bus.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. Seriously, you don't need fighting on. No, I mean, to be on a bus at all.

[Stephen Coleman]

Because no matter how funny someone thinks it is while they're doing it, I'm coming, and I'm gonna be swinging at them.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Stephen Coleman]

And they better be aware of that. And they do. I really want that. So, I mean, you know, it just. It doesn't make any sense. But football players.

[John Holmberg]

Sounds like a great team. First. Also, he'd be the first one jamming something in somebody else's mouth.

[Dale Hellistrate]

Yes, you would.

[Stephen Coleman]

Nope. I need to turn. It goes.

[John Holmberg]

Nobody says my name.

[Stephen Coleman]

Don't you say it is so. There's so much energy to try to pull off these. These.

[Dale Hellistrate]

No, it's not. You walk by with your dip. Copenhagen just try some dip in the guy.

[Stephen Coleman]

Some of the. Some of the guys, they. They try to pull off elaborate stuff. I'll tell you, there's an elaborate story that has nothing to do with sports. But. Sorry, but it's in regards to practical jokes. A friend of mine just bought.

[John Holmberg]

Is this Five Minutes with the Madman. Because we're right at the end here,

[Dale Hellistrate]

if you want to.

[John Holmberg]

Which story do you want to tell?

[Stephen Coleman]

That's fine. We'll do this. He.

[John Holmberg]

He.

[Stephen Coleman]

He bought a house and had a big mountain, and it's supposed to be a preserve. And this guy went out and start, like, putting, like, flags in and. And taping everything off. Like they're building a house there. And everyone went, eight. Crap crazy. And he had a. He had a. He had a. He was out. Out there with a, you know, hard hat and everything. It was just a practical joke to make everyone.

[John Holmberg]

Word.

[Stephen Coleman]

That's a lot of work.

[John Holmberg]

That's too much.

[Stephen Coleman]

That's just a lot of work. I mean, who. What? But it's funny as hell.

[John Holmberg]

It is great.

[Stephen Coleman]

One of the funniest stories I've ever heard. I couldn't believe someone went through that. But that's just a lot of work.

[John Holmberg]

It's better than just jamming something. Well, sounds bad when I say it. Jamming something in a dude's mouth on a bus, normally it's gonna get thrown in jail.

[Stephen Coleman]

And again, it's the people that listen. You sure you're. You know, you're always, like, jamming something in someone's rear.

[John Holmberg]

Something in somebody's. I said mouth.

[Dale Hellistrate]

I don't know.

[Stephen Coleman]

That is your. That's. That's the reputation you have.

[John Holmberg]

No.

[Stephen Coleman]

All right. Just saying, you know what.

[Dale Hellistrate]

What would be wrong?

[Stephen Coleman]

You know, Exactly. We'll. We'll proceed not to hang out anywhere close to each other.

[John Holmberg]

Like, I'd be attracted to you. You.

[Dale Hellistrate]

If I was. Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Like your target. 1.

[Stephen Coleman]

Well, in this room. Come on.

[John Holmberg]

Come on.

[Stephen Coleman]

You have a choice.

[John Holmberg]

This is the desert island, and we're the three guys, and I'm the gay one. I'm gonna. I'll go straight with you two.

[Stephen Coleman]

Perfect.

[John Holmberg]

You're the only three people on the island. I'm still gonna be waiting.

[Stephen Coleman]

I'm in 100 agreeing with that. That sounds great. Thank you.

[John Holmberg]

Still gonna do weird stuff just to make it uncomfortable.

[Dale Hellistrate]

I still put some co. Yeah, yeah.

[John Holmberg]

I'm still stuffing things in your mouth. All right, we're done. That's stupid. For Dale, for the unknown comic, I'm John Holmberg. Thanks for joining us. We'll see you next time.