S E37: The Sports Thing Podcast w/Holmberg, Hellestrae And Nash - Episode 37 - 05-21-26

Summary

The Sports Thing Podcast w/Holmberg, Hellestrae & Nash

Episode 37 (05-21-26)
Date: May 26, 2026
Host: John Holmberg
Co-hosts: Dale Hellestrae (former NFL OL, 3x Super Bowl Champion), Dave Nash (former AZ media personality)

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Episode Overview

This week’s episode dives deep into the doom and gloom of Arizona Cardinals fandom, the city’s broader woes as a sports town, and the inner workings of NFL contracts and front office incompetence. The guys also tackle NCAA hypocrisy around sports gambling, react to wild moments in professional golf, celebrate the longevity of “hard luck” sports cities, analyze the NBA and NHL playoffs, and cap it all off with a five-minute “madman” chat on surveillance, data centers, and privacy concerns.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Arizona Cardinals’ Outlook – Hopeless Again?

[02:15 – 13:30]

• The Cardinals are already being written off for the upcoming season; Vegas books them as underdogs in every game ("The Cardinals are not favored in one game." – John, 04:47).
• Brutal scheduling luck: Six games against division rivals with 36 wins last year; the AFC East also looms large.
• Quarterback mess: Jacoby Brissette vs. Gardner Minshew. Brissette wants guarantees for being a stopgap starter ("Why not throw it out there? If you're Jacoby Brissette... for all they're worth..." – John, 08:53).
• Organization’s reputation for penny-pinching and mishandling: Stories from the ’90s of sitting QBs to avoid paying bonuses.
• The team is in an endless rebuild; no hope for a winning turnaround soon.
• Notable Quote:

  “Is there anything more Cardinals than that? …They’ve guaranteed more money to Gardner Minshew, who they’ve said is the backup, than they have to Jacoby Brissette, who they said is their starter.”
  — Dale, [12:15]

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2. The Plight of “Hard Luck” Sports Towns

[13:31 – 24:00]

• Holmberg, Nash, and Hellestrae compare Arizona’s suffering to Buffalo and Cleveland (“The Valley can’t have nice things.” – Dale, 14:57).

• Suns fans suffer heartbreak, but there’s less generational trauma than in Buffalo where the Sabres and Bills define fan anguish.

• Arizona fans bounce back by enjoying the weather and lifestyle (“In Arizona, it’s easier… in Buffalo, they’ve seen Niagara Falls. The Bills lose, that's it.” — John, 16:52).

• Notable Quote:

  “When you have multiple games named after you, as far as a loss against you… that’s the Browns.”
  — Dale, [18:44]

• The hosts debate what’s worse: being “close” and always losing, or just always being terrible (“Would you rather have a team that's an eyelash away all the time or a team that just stinks all the time?” — John, 15:49).

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3. NFL & NCAA Contract Hypocrisy, Scouting, and Gambling

[25:10 – 32:52]

• NCAA’s dealing with lawsuits over sports gambling, especially quarterback Brendan Sorsby’s legal action: NCAA promotes betting and then punishes athletes for it (“He’s now suing the NCAA basically for hypocrisy” – John, 26:59).

• Discussion of how NCAA always puts a “band-aid” on its problems and fails to address systemic hypocrisy (SMU’s “Death Penalty” cited as example).

• Supplemental draft talk: Sorsby looming as a potential steal; what’s the real hit rate on late-round QBs? (Holmberg criticizes “Tom Brady was a 6th-round pick” arguments).

• NFL teams often reach or miss with QBs—high picks come with long runway, late picks rarely get chances.

• Notable Quotes:

  "Arguing the outlier as your point is an ignorance argument."
  — John, [34:46]

  "If you're a number one draft pick, you're going to get all the chances in the world to succeed...third or fourth or fifth round pick, you got about like one day to prove yourself."
  — Dale, [34:57]

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4. NBA and NHL Playoffs Breakdown

[38:42 – 54:20]

NBA Playoffs:

• Wild game between Oklahoma City and San Antonio; praise for Victor Wembanyama ("Victor Wembanyama is sick. What, 7'4", 240 [lbs]" — John, 45:05).
• Holmberg and crew debate who will step up as a catalyst for each team (Jalen Williams, Chad Holmgren, Castle).
• Critique of NBA officiating and theatrical flopping (“If a guy hurls himself backwards on minimal contact...Give him a technical.” — Dale, 44:17).

NHL Playoffs:

• The Vegas Golden Knights as possibly the most successful expansion franchise ever.
• Sadness about Buffalo missing out again (“Buffalo would have been a better time” — Dave, 40:52).

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5. PGA Championship & Rory McIlroy’s Mental Fragility

[54:21 – 61:15]

• Analysis of the wild finish, including Rory McIlroy’s infamous interaction with hecklers after missing a shot (“You can’t yell at fans… As soon as you start putting your head up in the stands, it’s gonna get worse.” – Dave, 57:12).
• Garret Higo’s penalty and caddy firing discussed ("What do you got to do, handcuff the dude?" — Dale, 55:52).
• The emotional and financial pressure of tournament golf; huge difference made by one late putt ($35,000–$600,000 swings).

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6. Five Minutes with a Madman: Data Centers & Surveillance

[64:16 – end]

• Dave Nash (the “Angry Patriot”) highlights the explosion of data centers in the U.S. and their environmental cost (energy, water usage).

• Raises suspicions about the proliferation—are these about serving the public, or tracking every keystroke?

• Notable Quotes:

  "It's not our need. I don't think. It's the tracking need...keeping an eye on every keystroke you ever make."
  — John, [66:05]

• New homes may have “mini data centers” that redirect unused household energy—a worrying sign for privacy, the hosts argue (“We need to be aware of this and hold our boobs accountable that are making these decisions.” — Dave, 67:59).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Cardinals’ Futility:
  "How can a franchise be so miserable that they can take May and already make you feel like the season is hopeless and over?"
  — John, [01:38]

• Buffalo’s Fan Suffering:
  “Buffalo…have to be the most hard luck fans in all sports.”
  — John, [14:11]

• On NCAA Hypocrisy:
  “They can change the playoff structure...they just throw away anybody that breaks their stupid rules.”
  — John, [26:58]

• On NBA Players Faking Fouls:
  “All these dudes that talk about growing up in the mean streets…get smacked in the face and they lay on the ground.”
  — John, [42:44]

• On NBA Officiating:
  “If a guy hurls himself backwards on minimal contact...Give him a technical.”
  — Dale, [44:17]

• On Data Centers & Privacy:
  "Everything you do on your phone is recorded and kept through that center. So that massive storage facility."
  — John, [66:29]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Description | Timestamp | |---|---|---| | Cardinals’ hopeless season | Analysis of schedule and QB mess | 02:15–13:30 | | Hard luck sports towns | Buffalo, Cleveland, and Phoenix woes | 13:31–24:00 | | NFL contracts/NCAA issues | Sorsby lawsuit, draft picks, hypocrisy | 25:10–32:52 | | NBA & NHL Playoffs | Wembanyama, officiating, Vegas Knights | 38:42–54:20 | | PGA Championship | Rory's meltdown, caddy firing, big putts | 54:21–61:15 | | “Five Minutes with a Madman” | Data centers, surveillance, privacy | 64:16–68:35 |

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Final Notes

This episode ties together Arizona’s enduring sports misery, national sports hypocrisies, and the creeping specter of technological surveillance, all seasoned with the hosts’ sardonic wit and lived experience in the trenches of professional sports and talk radio. For fans of sharp banter, sports cultural analysis, and a bit of tinfoil-hat energy, it’s a must-listen.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

and bring everyone together.

[A]

I did say everyone. Learn [e-mail] Explore BCP terms and cash back cap apply with blue cash preferred. All right, it's time once again for the sports thing. A John Holmberg podcast From the empire of Holmberg podcasting is known only as the greatest in excellence in podcasting. I am the host of Morning sickness on 98KUPD here in Phoenix and I am joined once again by my cohorts Dale Hell street, three time world champion of the Dallas Cowboys and co host of the main event with Steve McCall. And then the angry fan. Slash angry. Just angry human angry. The angry guy. The angry human.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is sitting next to us. The angry patriot from the real matrix, what's his name over here is doing his thing. And I want to say thanks again to the people that reminded me. They bring us this deal. Tactical black reactdefense.com if you're looking for self defense training that is bar none, the best in the world. React defense.com Tactical Black will help you. Gun, knife, machete. God knows what's going on in the

[B]

world in this day and age.

[A]

Yeah. How many times have we watched a video where somebody stops the guy?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It happened again in San Diego here recently. A security guard did it a couple of weeks ago in a school. Guy jumped. All you got is principal bang on the coward and the coward falls. And it's pretty fun to watch. And they can take care of it. Tactical black reactdefense.com look into it. It literally saves lives. Speaking of lives that need saving, let's get right into it. These here Arizona Cardinals. Yeah. Already making a mess of the 2026 season. How can a franchise be so miserable that they can take May and already make you feel like the season is hopeless and over and the only thing they can do is after the schedule release and what's going on with their quarterback situation is overachieved and somehow the Cardinals won't. Let's break it down. The Cardinals. After the schedule release, everybody kind of did their work. Vegas gets involved and does the first early lines, which is crazy. The first week of the season has betting lines. They haven't even made cuts.

[B]

They haven't all the way through week 17.

[A]

If they want to, they'll go through the whole thing. But the first week they got point spreads and I have a ticker at my house that rolls that. And most of them are two and a half points. Nobody's really looking to get. There's a couple of games and the Jets I think are like 10 point underdogs already. And the Cardinals are in there too. Cardinals somehow or another. And the NFL kind of got them here. And it's just happenstance. Have the toughest schedule in the league.

[B]

And for those people who don't understand, the NFL tries to make it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They want everybody nine and eight. Eight, nine.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And so that's why the first place. Get first place teams play first place teams and then you play another division. Yeah. Well, it just so happens that the Cardinals are the toughest division in the NFL by far.

[A]

Oh yeah.

[B]

And so they have to play them no matter what place you finish. And then you play a conference in the afc if you're in the NFC and you play those teams. And so some, some of the skill. Most of the schedule is already set up and then you're. You get maybe one or two games depending on where you actually.

[A]

Yeah, you get your others.

[B]

But.

[A]

And I don't even know who else is on the schedule that. But I mean you, you happen to get the three best teams in the NFC in your division.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that's six games.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Of your 17 that are against 36 wins last year.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That's huge. And that's what it's based on. Toughest schedules based on last year's record.

[B]

So you're so, so you're telling me that the NFC West.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Won 39 games last year?

[A]

Something or 39 or 40, something like that? Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God, when you put it that way, that's brutal. And then. And so you got that twice.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So you got. That's, you know, teams that going to be in the playoff hunt all made

[B]

the playoffs last year.

[A]

Then you swing over to the AFC east, who they play, which had the other super bowl representative and a team that probably could be in the super bowl in the Buffalo Bills. Patriots.

[B]

Bills.

[A]

You Get a little break with the Dolphins and Jets. They're still not favored. 17 games. And Nash, you say this all the time. Vegas knows what they're doing. Oh yeah, 17 games early spread. The Cardinals are not favored in one game.

[B]

Not only not favored, John, that's crazy. But double digit underdogs and at least a handful of them.

[A]

Yes. And if not more whispers that this team won't win a game.

[C]

Now come on.

[A]

I don't believe that to be true. But the fact that it's like being thrown back and forth and there's an argument to be made that maybe. And they've been picking in the top 10 at the very least for a decade. How badly managed is this mess and throw on top of this, a little cherry on top. The quarterback that won one game for him last year in 12 tries after giving Kyler Murray the heave ho, what was he, 2 and 4 with the team last year still had a 68% or something like that. Completion percentage, decent numbers, touchdowns that he just wasn't what they wanted. So Jacoby Brissette's the answer because it's cheap. And he's like, no, it's not going to be that cheap anymore. It's not going to be Kyler Murray money. But if Gardner Minshew is going to get cash and you go and draft a quarterback, I need some guarantees that I'm going to be on this team. And there's a million and a half guaranteed. He wants more. I blame him for that because the Cardinals will maneuver. When I worked at a restaurant in the late 80s and 90s, it was early 90s, we had. The Cardinals had their Tuesday fun show radio show at the restaurant, okay. And Steve Berline came in one week and Steve Berline was about to break like a number for his bonuses and they were talking whether or not he was healthy enough to play. And he's like, I'm fine. Like he's all that. They're like, oh, you're maybe not now, you're fine. And I. And it raised. I didn't know about this stuff. A couple years later, Boomer Esiason came in. If you remember, he had like a 500 yard passing and next year was 480 and he was going to break because they didn't expect him to do anything. He was going to break a number. They sat him for the last week and I forget who they started over him, but he was.

[B]

So they don't have to pay incentives.

[A]

There was no risk of them paying for that. This is not new so Jacoby Brissette comes in and recognizes that I've seen this Cardinal operation over the years. They won't pay me if they don't have to. And I'm only guaranteed a million and a half dollars. Not to average person. That's pretty nice chunk of change. But you're putting your knees. Your future, your.

[C]

You know.

[A]

And when the money is out there, he doesn't have a big future, 10 or 11. And there's the other thing he's got to protect. He's worth about nine to $10 million to another team.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The Cardinals are him and Han over this whole thing. I'm guaranteeing whatever. They don't have a leg to stand on.

[B]

Well, here's the thing that I always will always argue. It's hard with the Cardinals. It's hard with the Cardinals. What is he asking for? Yeah, yeah, I give. I would give him. If I believe he's going to be my starting quarterback, at least for the first half of the season, I'm going to guarantee him $12 million next year. Something along that. I'm not giving him Aaron Rodgers money.

[A]

He doesn't deserve it.

[B]

No.

[A]

Even at age 42, 43, Aaron Rodgers still gets 20 million.

[B]

But here's the thing you got to understand. So what he's concerned about is that they go into training camp and he gets cut before the season starts. Because as a vested veteran, once you're on the roster for the first regular season game, your salary is. Is guaranteed for the entire year.

[A]

Oh, is that right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Beyond the guarantee.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Your salary, once you're a vested veteran. Yes.

[A]

Okay. I didn't know.

[B]

And so it. But they could cut him August 15th.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and is he going to catch on with somebody? Can he. And those kind of things are what's going through. But what is the number that he wants? Because you're seeing crazy numbers.

[A]

Well, there was a parody side. I didn't know that, but I saw something pop up that said he was looking for Lamar Jackson money. But again, if I'm his agent, why not? Like you don't the Cardinals. You do not have an option if you do. No, you don't. Gardner Minshew is not your option.

[C]

What's his record?

[A]

He's as good. But here we go with your. Your Tommy DeVito.

[C]

Okay, you know what? You can trade for him.

[A]

Oh, man. Because I don't disagree that Gardner Minshew and Jacoby Brissette aren't that different. Right. Okay. You're 1 in 11 with Jacoby last year. Yeah, but why not throw it out there? If you're Jacoby Brissette and you say, I'm gonna the Cardinals for all they're worth, and if they cut me, they'll cut me now and I have a chance to go to a camp for someone else, well, that was what I would want.

[C]

If he's there in camp. And if. What is he still. He's still kind of young. He's got one more contract in him. 33, something like that. So if he comes in and plays decent.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

On a crappy team, he's gonna. He's gonna. He's gonna sign for a whole bunch of money next year somewhere.

[B]

No, not a whole bunch of money.

[A]

Come on.

[C]

If he has a good year. I mean, his numbers last year, I think I saw it.

[B]

No, he had a decent number, right?

[A]

Yeah. But if he puts on whatever he puts on, and the Cardinals are. And he goes 1 in 11 again and he's getting beat up, people are going to look at him next year and go, if he. He's in the cycle of a million and a half. And let's keep this tread off the

[C]

tire with the sounds from Las Vegas. They're not going to be favored in one game this next year. If he wins one game, he's had a great year.

[A]

Well, that's. That's in May. But it is kind of weird that Vegas is saying, I could see you being an Owen 17 team.

[C]

That's crazy. Okay, so. So he has a very low bar to step over.

[A]

But, but they're saying that because there's instability at the starting quarterback, Jacoby Brissette's not here. So Vegas is looking, going, all right, he's there. But is he. Carson Beck, the starter?

[C]

I'll bet you this, if he comes back and says they signed him. Th. Those numbers. Yeah, those, those, those lines. Pre. Pre year. They're not going to move.

[A]

They probably won't move much.

[C]

They're not going to. Exactly. But here's what I'll.

[A]

Here's what I'm asking all of you, all the sports people, everybody in the city, everybody in national news is saying Carson Beck will be the starter for

[B]

this team at some point.

[A]

Five, six, seven weeks.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Why not just start them? Because if I'm Jacoby Brissette and I've already got. I'm already like, can't win. And I'm going to be the scapegoat for this team being terrible. And they're not good in a lot of positions and not just quarterback, although that's huge. If I want out of here, I don't want to be the. You know, where are you going to

[B]

go with this stage?

[A]

Anywhere. You'd be a backup somewhere and make the same money. So why. Why risk your knees and next year when you can go to, like. I don't know if the Rams have a pretty good situation behind them, but, I mean, there's plenty. Do they? Well, I mean, they do now. They got Ty Simpson and I think. No, I mean, they're.

[C]

They're. I don't think. I don't think.

[A]

I think Jimmy might maybe. So, I mean, you're looking at.

[B]

I'm looking at teams like whether to retire or not.

[A]

Yeah. Right. But I mean, you're still looking at stuff where you're kind of like, Eric, there's some teams out there that could pick him up. And, you know, Carolina's got Kenny Pickett backing up Bryce Young. I think that would be an upgrade. You got a lot of places that'll take you and you can. You can run behind somebody else for the exact same money. You're going to risk your knees and back on with a Cardinal team that's no good. I mean, if they're going to start Carson back and you're going to play this game with Jacoby Brissette, why are the Cardinals just like, all right, get them ready. We're going to. We're going to throw them to the Wolves because they're going to screw up Carson Beck in week six or week one. He's not going to be any good because of why they're doing this.

[B]

Well, let's hope you staff is going to have a little difference in. In that say. But we'll see.

[A]

That's very important.

[B]

Is there. They've guaranteed more money to Gardner Minshew, who they've said is the backup.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Than they have to Jacoby Brissette, who they said. They said is their starter.

[A]

Is there anything more Cardinals than that?

[B]

No, there's nothing.

[A]

Yeah, there's. I don't think there's anything more Cardinal descriptive than what you just said, if there's any.

[B]

It all to me all came down to this one thing. When I think it was Carson Beck was being interviewed after the draft.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The Cardinal on his shirts going one way. The Cardinal on their banner behind him is going the other way.

[A]

It's.

[B]

That's the Cardinal.

[A]

It's butting heads with itself. I think back to the 49ers in the early 90s managed to have Joe Montana and Steve Young on The same roster. Kind of make it work.

[B]

Right.

[A]

They weren't. You know, Steve was obviously like, I need to play. I need to get in on this thing. And they made it kind of work. The Cardinals can't make Minshew and Brissette. Yes.

[B]

Work. And I'm sorry, those names don't all belong.

[A]

They do not belong in the same league. It's amazing. They play the same sport professionally.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But the Brissette Minshew battle.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Should be pretty much cut and dry by a general manager and a coach who come in and go, shut the F up.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You're going to battle for the starting job.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And your agent will get you your money. And I don't want to hear from you. And if I hear from you, neither of you are that important to this team. I'll give you a million and a half to not play here.

[B]

Now the other thing you gotta remember is Brissette is his own agent. So.

[A]

Well, that's huge. And those are fun moments. Those are fun moments. I didn't know that, actually. Oh, that's Lamar Jackson.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I just look at this and I'm like, you just can't stop shaking your head. And it leads me right into the next thing, which is a. It's a transition you'll like. Dave, I've been thinking about because living in Arizona, it's pretty nice. Like, we got a pretty good situation here.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Sports aside.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I watched the Buffalo Sabers in Game 7 lose to the mon. Montreal Canadiens. And that was a really good game.

[B]

Overtime.

[A]

And it's in Buffalo. And you watch the fans when Montreal puts the goal in at the end and it's over and Buffalo is again second place. Barely missed the next level.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And those fans in Buffalo have to be the most hard luck fans in all sports. And I started thinking about it and I'm like, the Cardinals by themselves make Phoenix second or third. Cleveland would be the only other one. And the Cavaliers keep them busy.

[B]

Well, but what I would say though is. And I developed a moniker. The Valley can't have nice things.

[A]

No, you're 100% right.

[B]

Because yes, the Cardinals, they're more about franchise. They're an embarrassment. Whatever else. What other things you want to say. But the Phoenix Suns. Okay. The Phoenix Suns, they've been good a lot. A long time. Yeah. 90s 70s.

[A]

I think they had the best record in the 90s. The whole time through.

[B]

Yeah. And the last five years, six years, they've been good.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

But they haven't won a championship.

[A]

I'VE done a thing. Hard luck fans.

[B]

And they broke our hearts.

[A]

But in Arizona, it's easier because I don't know a. Other than the Suns, people haven't invested their childhood, you know, 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, in the same team.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Cardinals are 40 plus. Sun's been around for 60 or 55 years, something like that.

[C]

I think Diamondbacks have been very successful.

[A]

Diamondbacks have been a successful franchise, but they don't have the hearts and minds of older people. They're building their base with the young guys who are finally, you know, in their 30s and 40s and they're like, now you got a fan base that's been around for 20 years. They haven't bled like a Cub fan, like a Yankee fan, even, you know, who's had tons of success. But you, you. This city is, is Buffalo, I think, is number one. I have a friend who's. It's got to be. I don't know what's worse. Would you rather have a team that's an eyelash away all the time or a team that just stinks all the time? You know what you're getting like, like the Cardinals.

[B]

But see, and that's my argument because I've talked to other people, my other, other friends about the Suns.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When they were battling San Antonio, seven seconds or less, and they're winning 60 plus games a year. It was. I absolutely loved.

[A]

It was the most fun you could have in the city because they had a chance. Yeah.

[B]

Now they didn't get it done, but they had a. To give me that over. I'm going to trudge over to the west side to go. I wonder how much Cardinals are going to lose by or what they're going

[A]

to do to screw it up. Here's the thing that I think about. Because when the Cardinals are bad, we go, all right, Cardinals are bad. And we climb Camelback Mountain or we go to Sedona or we go to all the great restaurants, go to, you know, Old Town. Just screw around. Downtown. We got comedy clubs all over the place. It's a fun city to be like, man, Buffalo, they've seen Niagara Falls. The Bills lose. They're. That's it.

[B]

They Bills lose in early January, they still got the rest of January, February, March and April snow.

[A]

Then you got the Sabers, who are like, well, at least we got the Sabers. And they take you all the way into May for the first time in years, they won a playoff series. They go in and they, they hammer the fans into the ground. I don't know if it can get worse than being a Buffalo fan. Except for if I'm a Cardinals fan and I'm not. If I'm a Cardinals fan, I'm like, hey, hold my beer. Like, it's never good here.

[B]

You guys are close, but you're right. But the huge difference is in Buffalo, you don't see the sun for the entire month of October and into November. Right? And out here, oh, we're happy to.

[A]

We can go outside and forget stuff. Distractions. There's pickleball, or you go outside and play a game. You go in the pool and swim the summer away. Buffalo is just like, let's just get in while we can. The Bills are going to disappoint us. And it takes 10 months. It takes 10 months for them to go from. From, you know, oh, it happened again to, hey, there's hopes back. They get ruined. And the second city I put on that list is Cleveland. Cleveland's up there. The Cavaliers are in the Eastern Conference finals right now, but the Cavaliers are without their LeBron. Years are kind of another one. Was always hard luck with the Craig Elos and the. The Bills or the Bulls always knocking them out. And then you got the Browns.

[C]

The fumble.

[A]

The fumble. I mean, the annual nightmare, the drive that are the Browns.

[B]

When you have multiple games named after you, as far as a loss against you. Yes.

[A]

Yeah. And that's the thing. When you say the drive, you don't think. Unless you're in Denver. Oh, man, that was always great. Now you think all those Browns, how did they blow that fumble? That's 95 yards twice against. I mean, twice. The fumble and the drive. I mean, the 49ers have the catch and Dallas doesn't sit back and go, oh, that hurt us. Because they had championships. It's like, yeah, we lost a great game to a great team that had a moment.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's just. And it happens to these teams like crazy. These hard luck cities that seem to be consistently off and it seems like

[B]

Rust belt cities, especially because you don't have that out. You got six weeks in the summer where it's nice to be outside and

[A]

then there's bugs everywhere.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Well, it's because we have a great life here. Sports is secondary. I can't. I grew up in Detroit. There was nothing to do. You follow teams. There's nothing to do in Buffalo.

[A]

Does it. It's a commonality.

[C]

And I.

[A]

But.

[C]

But when you say, like, how come they always have the bad luck? Think back to the Cardinals Super Bowl.

[A]

Oh, I remember that.

[C]

The Cardinals. Yeah, of course you do.

[A]

Bastard.

[C]

The Cardinals are going in for a touchdown with seconds left in the first quarter or first half.

[A]

Then, then the greatest defensive play in super bowl history.

[C]

What's his name? Harrison.

[A]

James. Harrison.

[C]

James. Harrison. Debo runs a, runs it back for a touchdown. That is a 14 point swing. And nobody. You know what, I never hear someone say, oh, what bad luck. The Cardinals, how did that, how did that turn on them? That is a, to me, a bigger play than the fumble, the drive and everything else. And no one talks about it because you know why?

[A]

Oh, people talk about it, trust me. No, we talk about it or they'll

[C]

talk more about did. Did what's his name get his toe

[A]

in for the, for the touchdown too. They had two great moments in history.

[C]

But, but you, if you talk to Cardinal fans, I, A lot of them forgot about it. Seriously. Because hey, even after the game, you know what, oh, hey, it's 80 degrees, there's palms, life's great. What do I care?

[A]

It's Cardinal fans. Don't talk about it. Something called denial. It's repressed memories. You don't want to remember these things because it is depressing. So what they decide to do is create their own reality and hang banners that say NFC champions in their garage. Well, and you're celebrating another team Super Bowl.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I love that they do it because it's just so accepting of, you know, teams that are really good. Don't hang AFC north champion banners when you're really good. That's not the goal.

[B]

No, you're right out of room fast.

[A]

Can you imagine the Cowboys ever did NFC east champion banners. That place would be mostly banners.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

They don't care about.

[B]

You know, real quick, Steve on the main event this morning asked me this question. So I, I, I, I won three Super Bowls.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I lost two championship games. I lost an AFC champion game in Buffalo and I lost the 94 NFC championship game in Dallas. And he asked, well, which one hurt more? I'm like, you know, I never really thought about that. And I'm like, you know, probably the buffalo one. Because number one, we had been horrible.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Through most of the 80s.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And then we get to this. And Cincinnati went on a nine minute drive in the fourth quarter. We never saw the ball again. We're down one score.

[A]

You're on the sidelines, on the sideline.

[B]

Nine minutes and they didn't score. They started their five, they ended up

[A]

at their five and nine football minutes is 30 minutes.

[B]

Yes. And in Dallas, we'd won two Super Bowls. We probably look back at the loss to San Francisco. One of our proudest moments. Because we were down 21, nothing before you got your popcorn. Yeah. And we came back and made a game of it. But it's when you talk about. I'm trying to look at a player's perspective. Yeah. The Cardinals, that game. I guarantee you the players remember because Harrison wanted to get tackled.

[A]

He was looking to go down and get tackles.

[B]

Looking to go down.

[A]

There's two great moments from that play too. It's just that coach Tomlin did a cut up two nights earlier of. In. In the practices, the Steelers weren't running back interceptions in practice. They were kind of just loafing around and nobody's blocking and the guy would run out of bounds and you did a cut up of like you guys, you guys had like seven picks in practice and not one of you ran the ball back.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I want to see you blocking. If you go back and watch that interception, the blocking from the Steelers on that thing was unbelievable.

[C]

I think didn't time run out. So if they just tackled them, it

[A]

would have been over. Oh, yeah. It's huge. Isn't it great?

[C]

And like I, I never think about it, but when I think about it, it's annoying. That's why this might be the first

[B]

time I thought about it. Larry Fitzgerald not catch him. He's running to the sideline.

[A]

Yeah. Cheating the whole way.

[C]

It's true.

[A]

And he still got him on the one. And it was like a half a foot from James Nugget. It was the. It's the greatest defensive play ever. But that's the best part. And you know who doesn't have those moments? The Bills, the Browns and the Cardinals. Well, you talk about Tennessee is probably a fourth I'd throw.

[C]

You talk about Tomlin with the cutout. So. So you're saying the Steelers listen to him. But when Jonathan Gannon did the cutout about that. Stop, don't drop the ball before you get in the end zone. The week before, what's his name did

[A]

it for the Cardinals third string running back.

[C]

I guess that's the difference between a guy that coached 17 years and decided to.

[A]

That's culture.

[C]

Retire. And a guy who's.

[A]

Yeah, that's culture. Yeah. I looked at it and I see the Cardinal schedule and I look at this and I'm like, you know what? They're not. They're years away. Literally years away. And I don't see it changing. I don't see it changing at all. You can Get a good coach in here that'll sit back and go, I'm doing the best I can, but until you fix that franchise, my God. And then the NFL just giving them

[B]

the schedule, that schedule on top of that, and real quick, and then you can go. You got a longer memory than I do. But the Cardinals have tried to address it. They had number one overall pick. They take Colin Murray. They had the top 10 picks. They take Rosen the year before, you know, and it's like so much. And you know this now in Pittsburgh, unless you get a quarterback you miss.

[A]

It's a five year miss. Yes, at least.

[B]

And you can be, if you got a great organization, a good defense, you can be just a little before below 500 or a little bit above 910 wins or 7, 8 wins. But unless you have a quarterback who's a difference maker, really doesn't matter.

[A]

Not at all. No, I agree. Staying on football a little bit here. I'm watching scooch it over to the ncaa. Brendan Sorsby, we talked a little bit about that last week, but he is becoming my hero. I have, in every iteration of the ncaa, despised the ncaa. You especially have to hate it because they took away SMU's everything for what everyone else was doing. The hypocrisy is the one thing they can't change. They can change the playoff structure. They can change from the old bull system to the BCS to whatever they have now to this whole thing. And now the NIL comes in, they allow all the gambling money to come through, and one of their guys starts to gamble and they crash down on it. Meanwhile, they're running ads about while they're accepting all this gambling money that it's a mental health disorder. You got to stand behind anybody who does this. The second they have a guy who it was like, maybe I do have all that. And I love that he leaned in and said, you know what? Your words, not mine. It's a mental health disorder. You should back me up. And he's now suing the NCAA basically for hypocrisy, which isn't against the law.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But for making up the rules and moving the goalposts on them as they go. And I love every second of it. There's nothing the NCAA has ever done that has fixed the problem of the hypocrisy. Before when they didn't pay players and they said, golly gosh darn, it's all about the education these kids play for the love of the game, we'll break them and we'll throw them away and it won't matter.

[B]

Right.

[A]

They just throw away anybody that breaks their stupid rules. You go back to Reggie Bush, Pryor at Ohio State and Jim Trestle and all these people have lost their jobs and lost their reputations based on the NCAA going, oh, you gave away gold pins to. You're fired for good.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It is unbelievable how bad this is. And the Sorsby kid might be the one that finally breaks that because it's advertisers he's basically siding with. And that's huge.

[B]

It'll be fascinating because I think the NCAA is famous for putting a band aid on it. Yeah, like, okay, there's a lot of cheating going on in college football. Go back to the 80s. It's rampant.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Well, let's pick one school. Let's make an example of them. They chose smu. It seems like they try and put a band aid every five, six years or something new that comes on and now they have no idea what's going on with NIL and the transfer portal. It's all made up and all that stuff. They're just trying to catch up to it as they're going along.

[A]

But they're taking money for. In the past, all the cheating and stuff was based on loopholes to the rules that they'd created. Then after that, the bcs, which was the most crooked business in the history of business, it wasn't part of the ncaa. You don't even realize BCS was its

[C]

own entity like the Federal Reserve Bank.

[A]

It's very part of our government to get you going. But that was a complete catastrophe of corruption. But it was self made. Now they're accepting tons of advertising of DraftKings, Caesar's FanDuel. And they've got a kid on there that will make DraftKings FanDuel. And Caesar's very nervous. If he's like, oh, you invited the gamblers in and now look what happened. Now you've got a sick kid, you did this. And they can't punish themselves out of this. They can't punish Texas Tech. They can't punish him. Because everything they're doing is like, you should do this. You should do this. You should do this. But do it responsibly because otherwise you've got a mental disorder. He's playing them like a fiddle and he might be the first one that. And they did it to themselves again by this is advertising dollars. We're talking hundreds of millions of dollars for the NCAA with gambling advertisement.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Never before has it been A sponsor. That has been the problem. Brendan Sorsby might be the one that changes that whole thing. And then to what it's going to be.

[B]

It's going to be fascinating because I know he's filed a lawsuit, wants to do it quickly, because one way or another, he has to make a decision here in about the next month.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

To go to the supplemental draft.

[B]

Whether they're gonna have a supplemental draft or he's gonna be eligible to play this year.

[A]

I'm giving up my first round pick to get this magnificent bastard in my locker room. He's a great player. First of all, he's a top 10 pick. If he plays the way people think, he's a really good quarterback. In a good quarterback draft. If he goes supplemental.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Do it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Make the run at Sourcebee. This kid's got all the tools. He's good and he's smart because.

[C]

And he's a good.

[B]

Better.

[A]

And. And you know what? Well, he's not discreet, but he's good. Look, he didn't have to be. They said, hey, look, all over the stadium. I've always marveled at.

[C]

I think, as players. Players knew you can't gamble on game. You definitely can't gamble on your own team, of course.

[A]

But they invited the gamblers to the party and then act shocked that the gamblers talked to a few of their guys for the last 60 years. These. These guys, these boosters, they can come to the parties, but don't let them talk to the kids. And next thing you know, Eric Dickerson's got a Rolls Royce going to practice. Half the team's got Trans Ams. Either way. It was like, where'd you get that? My mom.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They found ways around it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

They always will. The gamblers are no different than the boosters. They're guys who come in and go, oh, yeah, we'll get you in on this.

[B]

I'm just more than disappointed because you know the easiest way to fix the game? Long snappers.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Your people have been avoiding the Italians. Never talked to you.

[B]

It's like you're talking to the wrong people.

[A]

Yeah. Do you take a chance on Sorsby if you're a supplemental? Let's say the Cardinals, for instance. They're probably going to have a really high draft pick, so it would be dumb for them to drop that for their one or two. Probably goes out the door for. You have to give that up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But Cardinals did it once before and ended up with Kelly Stauffer.

[B]

Yeah. Well, the Cowboys or Tim Rosenbach. I think it was Rosenbaugh.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The Cowboys did it with. Took Acman number one in the regular supplemental and then they took Steve Walsh number one in the supplemental drill.

[C]

I'm sorry, something just popped up and I just got a question. This guy's brain. Rashid Rice or the Chiefs wide receiver is going to serve 30 days in jail for testing positive for marijuana because.

[B]

Probation.

[C]

He's on probation for the big. He didn't. He wasn't he driving like 150 miles an hour and they got in an accident?

[A]

He's used to that.

[C]

Yes, but you can't, you can't put down the, the piece pipe for.

[A]

I've never understood.

[C]

For, for whenever.

[A]

However long's not that great a high. It's okay at best. So I've never understood a dude.

[B]

There were guys on the Cowboys that knew when the drug testing was coming.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they knew how many days they had to be clean.

[A]

They learned in the NCAA how to get around all that because that's what they taught him in college football. We don't need all this. And Laramie Tunsil put that, that gas mask on and changed one of the best tackles. It's just. I just love the hypocrisy. I love when the NCAA takes one in the shorts. And I think this kid's going to get him. Now if he does make the decision to move on, it won't matter. And I think that'll be his lawyer saying, all right, we're going to get into a mess here. They're going to fight back, so let's just get you in the NFL. But if I'm an NFL team, if I'm the Steelers, and I'm looking at that, why not?

[C]

Because I. Yeah, why don't you draft another guy that you don't know?

[A]

Well, no, because you're gonna be worth a crap. You're probably not gonna be a top 15. You're probably gonna be 10 and seven again, picking 18 to 27.

[C]

Can I, can I remind you Tom Brady was drafted in the sixth round. I'm just saying.

[B]

And so was Tommy DeVito. You know what?

[C]

He was drafted, I think, third round.

[A]

I love that argument because I can name, if I wanted to just go through 460 quarterbacks over the last 20 years. I've been draf draft in the fifth and sixth rounds. That didn't do anything.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Brady and Purdy. I mean, you know the name Purdy.

[C]

The last pick of the draft, right? No, I'm gonna go two total. I'm gonna Go on yap like you normally. Yeah, I'm gonna.

[A]

Terrell Davis. We get it. Tom Brady and Brock Purdy are the three outliers in hundreds of guys picked in the sixth round.

[B]

Especially, especially at the quarterback.

[A]

And very rarely do they amount to even backup stats.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Very rarely. Everybody uses that argument with the Steelers. Will Howard, fifth round six round picks like Tom Brady was. He's not everybody's. You can't keep using that as the argument for why your six round quarterback might be the best ever and you screwed it up as Brock Purdy by being good again and like, oh no, now everybody thinks they can steal one. That is a. That is the luckiest you can possibly be.

[B]

Yes, you're.

[A]

That just tells me your scouts were wrong. All scouts wrong. NFL scouts drafted Achilles Smith first.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They don't always get it right.

[B]

No.

[A]

Dante Culpepper or not Dante Culpepper. Who was the dude with the Raiders? DeMarcus Russell. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Brian Leaf.

[A]

Brian Leaf was a tight.

[C]

What round was Dak Prescott drafted?

[A]

Third or fourth? Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Well, no, you can, you can find one or two.

[B]

That's how you're building your franchise. We're gonna take our franchise quarterback in the sixth round.

[A]

Arguing the outlier as your point is an ignorance argument.

[C]

How dare you.

[A]

I'm just saying it's a fool's errand to go. There's been one good one.

[C]

Well, because I'll tell you this, and, and as a player, I realize if you're a number one draft pick, you're going to get all the chances in the world to succeed. Even if, and if you're like a third or fourth or fifth round pick, you got about like one day to prove yourself when you get the opportunity. And so of course first round draft picks are going to look better in the course of time because they're going to get chance after chance after chance and eventually. God, you, you've got to succeed sometime.

[A]

Sometimes though, you get in there too early. Carson Beck and your first round draft pick, Josh Rosen, he wasn't very good to begin with. Kenny Picket. You go down the list of these first round guys that didn't make it.

[C]

Yeah. So yeah, first round guys.

[A]

Right. Because they got thrown.

[C]

You never know if the third or fourth rounders were. Would have been better because they're not getting the opportunity.

[A]

It's probably better to, to kind of make your argument better since you're doing a terrible job is to say third, fourth, fifth, sixth round quarterbacks have it easier going into the league. Because they're not going to play the first couple years.

[B]

And you can impress during practice.

[A]

Yeah. And during the week. Yeah. They can put it out there and go, this kid might have something. And we're not going to throw him to the wolves.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You draft him in the first round, he might not be ready. He's going in, right.

[C]

Kurt Cousins, what was his.

[A]

I wouldn't want Kirk Cousins on my team at all. He's a fantasy football.

[C]

He's only played, what, 15 years in

[A]

the NFL, but he's a fantasy football quarterback. And that's all hindsight, so I won't say that. But again, Kirk Cousins was. Nobody's like, this is a guarantee. He sat there for a couple of years like, this kid might have something. But if he was a first rounder, Kirk Cousins would have been dead in the water the first year. He's not ready. Too many guys, they'll do it. Mark my words. Right now, what is it, 1225 on May 19th. Carson Beck will be terrible if he plays too many games this year. He's not ready. He's not ready. He's a year away. But let him run a lap around the track before you shove him in the race.

[C]

I'll disagree just because I don't know if I believe this, but I don't believe anything you say. So if you think it's true, then I'm pretty sure I'm comfortable going the opposite way. And that is. He has had so many college starts. He has more experience than. Than a number of guys.

[A]

Better to let them sit then to say, you have so much experience. Now I'm going to let you sit and watch this game and see how practice works in the NFL, see how the coaches work, get acclimated to your new city instead of, ah, you've played enough. Get in there. You pro like guys who Jacoby, Brissette, Gardner, Minchu, played for years in Kansas,

[C]

all the snaps in practice, in high school, in college, everything he's done. And you know what? Hey, you might just have to watch more.

[A]

I'm going to go to Dale on this.

[C]

Get out of here.

[A]

I've heard from everybody who played pro football. Every single person that I've talked to that's played pro football said that the difference between college and high school isn't anywhere near what college and the pros is. Yeah, it's almost the same. Like you don't feel it's. It's harder. Yeah, but it's not like, oh, this is a different game. College to the pros. Is a different.

[B]

Even in college at smu I probably had half the schedule of guys that were really good that I played against. We played Rice, we played North Texas, we played, you know, teams that didn't have the guy. You go to the NFL. That's why I always laugh when people go, oh, whoever. Who won the national championship this year? Indiana.

[A]

Oh, they can beat, they could beat,

[B]

they could beat the worst team in the NFL. No, they can't.

[A]

They have nine guys on the field that won't sniff the NFL.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's an Indiana team that's going to get about eight guys drafted. Yeah. When all said and done. Yeah. It's a ridiculous argument, but yeah, I, it's, it's to, to put him in there and do this to, to quarterbacks and things like that. It is ridiculous. But football is, you know what, it's a year round sport and it's great even with hockey going on. And again there's the Vegas Golden Knights sitting there staring at Colorado. That's going to be a great series. All Colorado win it and then Carolina and the Canadians. So you got one Canadian team fighting real hard to keep this thing alive.

[C]

I can't see the Canadiens having any success.

[A]

I think the Sabres would have had a.

[C]

Whatsoever. Oh 100% I thought for sure. But younger, bigger, faster, stronger team.

[A]

Carolina.

[B]

But now the thing is, I think you have to keep an eye on just like last night in basketball. I know we'll get into that. Oklahoma City had a week off and maybe a little rust, maybe not hitting on all cylinders. Sga, the MVP struggles so. And I hear in baseball and hockey the rest can throw you off more than a basketball. And so Caroline's been sitting there for what, a long time? Days.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And you gotta, you know, you're not messing around with some chump. It's just you're supposed to beat him. You look at the Vegas Knights. Is that the most successful new franchise in the history of sports? Yes, they're going. It's no question at this. Yes. Right. They're. What are they in their, their fourth conference championship and it's unreal. They're a seven year old team or something like that. I don't even know. Six, seven, eight years.

[B]

They've already won a Stanley Cup.

[A]

They've been to two of them. They've won one and they're in their fourth. I mean they're, it's insane. You know, they're doing this again and they've rebuilt.

[C]

Once I talked to my wife about it that I, you know, they're, they're close to us now that we don't have a team. It should be the team you, you adopt.

[A]

It's fun. Have you been to a game? You know what though?

[C]

I can't get behind them. Why not? I. I don't know. I have no idea. Well. Well, I'll tell you.

[A]

Too British. Is it the Knights that bother you? It's the outfit.

[C]

Yeah. I'm not a big British fan. They don't remind me of the British.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

I don't know.

[A]

The Golden Knights. So maybe it's too much gold. Makes you think of Elon Musk. Makes you think of the enemy. You go down, you go to too many rabbit holes. They just should call in the Vegas chemtrails and get it off your, off your desk.

[C]

The golden showers.

[A]

Oh, there's one. That's Trump's or not. The fun thing about hockey, which I love, is that it's going to come down to these two series and hopefully the ratings are huge because they did get what they needed, which are really fun teams that are left as the final four. I mean this is, this isn't a goof. And that's what hockey always ends up with.

[C]

Buffalo would have been a better time.

[A]

And you know what?

[C]

So would Anaheim. A young side of team that. I mean they're scoring, they're. They're scoring or giving up six goals a game.

[A]

Yeah. But the NBA had the opposite problem until game one of the Western Conference finals, which was the best game of the year. Basketball. That was a phenomenal game. Now the referees and the NBA's rules tried as hard as they could to make it impossible for fans to like it by reviewing nine different plays and trying to get it right. And I loved that the, the ref would go, this isn't a flagrant one. It would have been all year.

[C]

There was. Was it the late call and, and believe it or not, I probably watched more basketball. Look at you last night. That I watched all year. But the play where Holmgren kick kicked the ball out when him. And when we were going after ball, I saw it for like a split second. I go oh, that's.

[A]

Yeah, it was easy to see.

[C]

That's. How long did it take to.

[A]

Way too long.

[C]

And then the, the one about the. They were going to call a. A bigger foul.

[A]

The flag on. On SGA when he smacked.

[C]

And then I swear I, I think I, I went to the bathroom, came

[A]

back and still reviewing.

[C]

What do they do? What. I mean, how hard is this? He. He didn't Say anything? No, it was barely a hit.

[A]

I always look at the NBA in like.

[C]

So when I was. When I was. When I. When I finally watched it and finally got the. I was thinking, are they trying to drag this out and get more commercial time?

[A]

But they already sold that. Yeah, maybe. I don't know.

[C]

Because. No, the game goes longer. That's overtime. Game goes longer. Those, those overtime.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

The spots, they're not free.

[A]

No, no, no, no. They're actually like.

[C]

They're not free.

[A]

They're throwing.

[C]

They try to drag this out and get more commercials in there and make more money.

[A]

It's not a bad idea. But if you got overtime, let's drag it out.

[C]

Of course Satan wants to screw fans over.

[A]

Well, the fans are getting screwed over by an awful lot of things. Here's one thing about the wnbi. I'm tired of that. I just can't deal with the WNBA or the NBA. I called it W because it feels okay. Sometimes all these dudes that talk about growing up in the mean streets, all these guys are like, they had the roughest childhoods. Yeah. I mean, it's absolutely like they had to fight their way to survive and get through. And they get smacked in the face and they lay on the ground. It's a great thing. They didn't take up boxing because not a one of them can take a slap. There was an open hand slap to a man who's 66255 across the nose. And he laid on the ground for 21 seconds holding his face. It was an accident. Maybe it hurt a little. You keep your feet. I don't understand. They've got to stop talking about how tough they are.

[B]

Well, they. I promise you. And maybe I said it on this program. I said on other programs. I talked with Bryce Drew, the Grand Canyon University head coach, and I did ask him one interview. I said, do you guys have a fake foul period in practice? And he laughed and he didn't say, no.

[A]

You have to.

[B]

The way these guys shoot threes and kick their feet up and try and draw contact. And like you said, the acting part, the way. And I heard somebody say this other night on one of the broadcasts, the way that you curtail this is that if a guy hurls himself backwards on minimal contact.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Give him a technical, he gets a whistle, too. Yes. Yeah, I agree with that. Technical foul.

[A]

I agree with that, too. I mean, Chet Holmgren had one they reviewed last night where he was holding his eye like it got torn out of the socket. And even in the Review he's like, was an accidental brush across the chin. Like he watched the review. And there's Chet still holding his eye. I'm like, we just saw that. We all saw. No, nobody hit you in the eye. If they did, it was. It was a glancing blow at best. Have you not seen the MMA Ronda Rousey in 17 seconds. And she stood up better than these guys do to getting bumped. There was a fan who caught a guy diving in. It didn't go back 15ft, slide up the stairs. It's ridiculous. They've got it. I'm with you. I think there needs to be a technical foul or some sort of warning. Yes. Next tech or next time you do that, you're tech out of this thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But that said, still the best basketball game I watch. Victor Wembanyama is sick. What, 7 4, £240. And he's probably two years away from being about 265. He's not done.

[B]

No.

[A]

Chad Holmgren is 71 2, 13. He's all done. I'm watching that last night. And like you've said Dale, on this show, if you're in the Western Conference, this mountain to climb is not only Oklahoma City, but this team that's probably two years ahead of schedule that might just find themselves in the finals accidentally, because they even said at the interview last night, it's like, how did you guys keep your composure and know how to win this playoff game against a team like that on the road? They're like, I don't know. It's our first time.

[B]

Ignorance is bliss.

[A]

Sometimes what they're doing is making it up as they go and growing up in front of us. And this team is horrifying. If get your licks in now because this dude adds 20 pounds and turns into answer to compo shot a logo 3 in rhythm. Unreal.

[B]

a very important part of the game.

[A]

Stupidest shot in the world. When he. I'm like, you're an idiot. Once the ball went there, I'm like, you're an idiot. Went in and I'm like, I'm an idiot. It was unreal. And then some of the plays down the stretch between sga. Now I think the one thing after watching that, the only analysis of the the game I have that I'm like, oh, maybe that was it. Throwing Jalen Williams back in the starting lineup seemed to kind of screw up the Oklahoma City start because the guys that Mitchell and even Homegren, I think they had one shot, not even one make, one shot between them going into the middle of the second quarter.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because the flow was off. Jalen hadn't played for a month. Right. He gets it. But then they started to kind of come together in the third as they do. And that team's just. I don't see. This is a seven game series. What I watched last night. Oh, this is a seven game series. And I don't think Oklahoma City. I also think a little bit that Wemby looked at that, you know, as a bit of a smack in the face when they did the MVP announcements. And Wembley's like, I'll show you who's the MVP.

[C]

900%.

[B]

Well, so many things. Again, Oklahoma City sitting on. Sitting on the sidelines for a little over a week.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And San Antonio having to play another game or two after. After Oklahoma City sat down. I think you in San Antonio now they're starting point guard.

[A]

No, that's the big thing. Fox didn't play. Yeah.

[B]

But Wemby the, the athleticism that he

[A]

had he spin move in he 41:24 last. Yes. I mean the rebounding over Chad Holmgren.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

The second best defensive player in basketball and a great rebounder.

[B]

It's. It's crazy. And you're right. When you. If you're another Western Conference team years. When's our turn? Look, maybe 20, 30 and you got

[A]

to make some moves and I don't know that anybody's coming out of the draft that's, you know. No, maybe Cooper flag down there in Dallas is a guy who steps up. They have a terrible roster around him. So their years out. This is a. This is amazing. Now who do you think is the catalyst for each team going forward after watching that game last night, like somebody has to step up outside of sga who came around at the end of that thing and started playing. I love watching him play basketball. And who for? The Spurs. Who do you think is the Spurs? Besides Wimby has to be the guy. Wemby's going to get you his. I mean they proved that last night.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wemby's not going to be stopped. 4124 is probably an exaggerate overtime too. But still who do you have in this?

[B]

Well, I think if I'm looking at San Antonio, the Castle kid, he's amazing and I think he's going to play bigger and bigger roles. Now again, I think you throw away game two Oklahoma City. I told Steve, Oklahoma City wins double digits. I think so in game two because coming out angry and you go, hey, if you're San Antonio you go, we go to Oklahoma City if we can get one.

[A]

Yeah, that's true.

[B]

And we got it.

[A]

But they're too dumb to go. Why can't we get two?

[B]

Well, that's such a ridiculous argument. I still remember we went to our first super bowl when we were going to San Francisco to play them in NSA championship. Dallas is too young. They're two years out of schedule. They're this. We didn't know any better.

[A]

What's that? We're here.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah, we're the drunk.

[B]

We might as well win this damn thing.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And we never didn't even think about, oh, we're young.

[A]

No, you know, I, I, yeah, there's, there's something about that San Antonio team that if I'm Oklahoma City, I thought the playoffs would reveal who each team was and where they were.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because everybody's like, San Antonio beat him four to five times in regular season. Yeah, that won't happen in the playoffs. San Antonio just said, we don't know.

[B]

Right?

[A]

We don't care. We're playing tonight and that's the most dangerous animal in the world. They don't care about tomorrow and they're not thinking about yesterday.

[B]

Now Santo ser is another point of interest to me. Do they play him in game two because they said it was just a one game thing or since you won the game, do you give them three or four more days rest?

[A]

Man, does it mess up everything Oklahoma City wants to do? Just keep that up until Den Howard before games. Yeah, it changes everything. Their point guard play was suspect at best. San Antonio was a little messy.

[B]

Well, that castle guy had 11, 11 turnovers.

[A]

They were a mess at the, they almost had 2 or 310 second to like they couldn't get the ball over in a good way.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Fox comes back and everything's different. Chad Holmgren is the one that I was going to say for. Oklahoma City has absolutely got to be a factor. He can't sit back and be 13 and 8. He has to be a guy who actually participates in clutch moments. Caruso did it last year. And watching that for every bald white guy that plays basketball in his backyard. Caruso is a hero, that dude. If it wasn't for him. They don't look you just like him

[C]

because he looks like you.

[A]

He doesn't look like me. We're not, we all don't look alike. If I put the headband on, I can get away with it For a

[C]

second I thought you could.

[B]

Here's example number A about why no white guy should ever to want wear a headband.

[A]

The headband thing is so weird. Just looks, it just looks like a bad, like bottle cap. The crazy part for that is, though, it made me think of Bruce Bowen, Robert Ori, all these guys that, that would, you know, back in the. Vinnie Johnson for the Pistons. All these dudes that are like these. They called Vinnie the Microwave.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It was instant offense. These guys that come off the bench. All championship teams have one of those guys. Yeah, I don't know that the spurs do, but I don't know the spurs well enough. I don't think they know.

[B]

I can tell you I watched more spurs basketball last night than I did all year.

[A]

Yeah, well, you watched. You got a good amount of it. Yes. Your quarter.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah, it's all right.

[C]

So I'm, I'm with you guys. I think Oklahoma City wins.

[A]

I think I'd take 10 or 11 points on that one.

[C]

So I, I either. You can either pick it -6 and a half or if you pick them just to win the game, they're minus 250. You got to put up 250 to win 100.

[A]

Matt.

[C]

It's really a high. Odd.

[B]

Yeah, no, I, I think they're going to cover. I already did.

[A]

I'm with you. I think I got 10, 11. Yeah, I'm with you on that one. And then in the, in the east, good matchup. The Knicks are on fire. Their offense is strangely as good as it gets right now, and they're not letting off. And then James Harden, who didn't show up in game seven, but got bailed out by the rest of the team, is in another championship. Championship. Like he's in a. He's winning.

[B]

Well, let me tell you about the Knicks, which is fascinating. I did watch a little bit of them. Yeah. They changed Karl Anthony Towns's role.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he's not like a point center.

[A]

He was begging for it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And he's perfect for that because he can hit the 15, 16, 17 foot jump shot. But when he has the ball in his hands now Brunson is free to roam around.

[A]

Brunson's a monster.

[B]

And Cat can pass a basketball.

[A]

Yeah. He is the real deal if you put him in the right position. I think they had him like playing traditional center forward before, and it was a little off because he'd be standing in the wrong spot looking for threes and the, the new role. What the Knicks have done in the playoffs since that Atlanta game, they won by a hundred.

[B]

Right.

[A]

They haven't let off the gas and they haven't let that plan go and it's working. I don't think Cleveland has a chance.

[C]

I know it's been like this for a number of years. East, first West. But how come I just feel. Watching the spurs and Oklahoma City is the champion.

[A]

That's the championship. Although the Knicks.

[C]

When's the last time you. You feared a Eastern.

[A]

Last year, Indiana gave Oklahoma City all they could. That was.

[C]

When did you fear them, though?

[A]

Game one. Really? Yeah. When Halberton was out there, that team was. That. That was. That was a series like you didn't realize how good they were.

[C]

No, that. Well, obviously, because everyone in the media never. No one. No one said. Thought Indiana would get there. Zero.

[B]

So you're one of the seven people that watched last year's.

[A]

It was a tough one to sit through, but I did. There were good games, but Indiana was playing until. Until the. The, you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So how many games does the East Eastern Conference champion win in the finals?

[A]

Oh, man.

[C]

Tell you right now.

[A]

2.

[C]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. If it's the Knicks, if it's going under that. No, because you get. You got good size and physical play. I think two. Both those.

[C]

I think I'm going to be able to bet that. And again, if you said two hours,

[A]

you think it's a full sweep, you don't even think they have a chance backdoor?

[C]

No, but I don't know if they'll

[A]

moon more than one. Yeah, I'd say two. We'll get into the others real quick. You wanted to talk about the PGA championship and Rory McElroy. PGA Championship was actually really entertaining until the final round. Well, that guy went nuts.

[B]

Aaron. Ry.

[C]

The back nine. There was zero.

[A]

Nobody could do anything. Yeah.

[C]

It was like.

[B]

Except for Ry. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. And. And you weren't expecting it. Sort of like he did. What?

[A]

Again, it would have been fun to have everybody stay stagnant because they were all at 6 and 7 under. 7 under was like, oh, my God.

[B]

Well, they had like 18 people within a stroke or two of the lead.

[A]

And then when Ry hit that gigantic birdie putt on 16, 17, it was like, okay, it's over. So over. And then you had to sit and watch the two other groups finish, which was brutal.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just. Just to hear the kid talk. But that was. That was pretty impressive. But Rory McElroy, once again, the center of the attention. Rory McElroy.

[B]

Well, hold on before we get into that. That Garrett Higo.

[A]

Yeah. Oh.

[B]

Late to his tea time the first day.

[C]

Two stroke penalty.

[B]

And. And guess what?

[A]

He did Yesterday he showed a plate again.

[B]

No, yesterday was Monday. Oh, fired his caddy. Oh. Even though his caddy was screaming at him.

[A]

Is that true?

[B]

To get to the T. Get to

[A]

the T. I didn't see that. I just saw that he was supposed to be close, and then they went to tape because he said I was there and he wasn't.

[B]

No.

[A]

And so his caddy was there. Yes, I did see that. So he was saying, we were there. Yeah.

[B]

Fired him. Well, what do you got to do, handcuff the dude?

[A]

Maybe the caddy at the end was like, you're an idiot. I don't want to work for you. No.

[C]

Or, you know, those. These guys are so touchy that if. If he heard the caddy say, well, I tried to get him there, and he wasn't listening.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And he's pointing fingers at.

[A]

He'll boot. You might see. You're an employee. That's insubordinates. But let's talk about Rory for a second, because Rory decided to start yelling at fans again. Real convenient time he did it, too, is after a drive that went into that hay that they're hitting out of in Philadelphia. I don't know how you. Dave, you played a lot of golf hitting out of that thick, uncut grass that was ankle high, at least. And these guys are doing all they can. You watch a pro hit out of that. And Rory McElroy basically missed the first one and stayed in the rough. I mean, hit it as well as you can hit it, but it wasn't going anywhere. And then the next one in the rough, he tries to just, you know, feather one over the. And it goes right into the bunker. And right as it does, the dude that's been following around all. All day shouts something, and he turns and he goes, shut the F up. And then a USA chant started. Reminder of the Ryder cup that caused all the trouble. I loved it. I loved that the fan did it. I love that. I love that Rory showed mental weakness because that's what that was.

[C]

Yeah, you can't. You can't. You can't yell at fans. It's just the.

[A]

Just walk away.

[C]

You. You know, in the. In this. In my short little career in the minors, we'd go to ops in towns and, you know, visiting towns, and people are yelling at this day. As soon as you start put. Putting your head up in the stands,

[A]

it's gonna get worse. Yeah, it's gonna get worse. Did you see Pete Crow Armstrong of the Cubs?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Ugly. He started yelling at some lady in the white Side what? And just calling them horrible names. And the league's like, all right, everything's on tape. Pete, she might have been awful. Just walk away. There's a few fence.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But same thing with Rory is the guy was getting under skin. Now I'm. I'm about tired of everybody screaming what they think is hilarious after each drive. It's just annoying. And maybe there should be something to the idea of not everything's the Phoenix Open, so keep it down.

[B]

But you're in Philly.

[A]

Yeah, in Philly, you're going to get yelling.

[B]

It's 14 miles outside of Philly. I know. And it's a nice golf course and all that, but Philly can make the trip.

[A]

Yeah, it's. It's Philadelphia. It's not a fun.

[B]

Got to get yourself mentally prepared.

[A]

Yeah. So I watched it. Did you agree with Rory yelling at the guy or was it time to wander off? Because it was after a bad shot. He tolerated that dude all day and then he duffed one into the sand. And that was right when Rory was at what, 4, 5?

[C]

I agree with you. You can't say anything bad. But, but the fact that if, you know, during the Ryder cup and everything's, you know, pro USA and against Europe and whatever, I think it should be let alone after that. I mean, and, and I am no Rory McElroy fan.

[A]

No zero.

[C]

But. But, you know, I mean, keep, you know, USA chance and, and, and hope.

[A]

That was just a complete. Like we've gotten you before. And Philly, of all places, like, we know what gets in your head. They remember again.

[B]

Well, what's interesting, because you said about turning. Acknowledging the crowd we're in. We're playing the jets my, My rookie year.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In Buffalo. And one guy's name is Mark Tranowitz and I'm hella stray defense on the field. We're standing on the sidelines and people start.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Cat call. Making fun of our names and the

[A]

plenty to do there.

[B]

And I just. I kept my eyes straightforward and Mark turned around.

[A]

Don't look.

[B]

And now you got the whole section.

[A]

You look, you stare. The eye of Sauron. It's going to just erupt with.

[B]

Yeah, it's.

[A]

Ignore it. Fans are allowed to do one thing and that's shout. And if it gets out of hand, walk away. I mean, DK Metcalf punched a guy last year. It was the stupidest thing I've ever seen. There's barriers in place. There's friends that are there. Rory McElroy doesn't have that golf doesn't have that. And it does probably get pretty annoying. It's a frustrating game. It's you against you. You can sit and look at the scoreboard all day, but it's up to you to get on that board and move it. Nobody's standing in front of you. Nobody's pushing you around. It's just you against you. So when a guy's in your head and you just duffed one in the sand, I love that. I don't like when dudes overdo it, but that was a moment to me because it's like, all right, you're weak. We gotcha. And it was the end of his tournament. He was not going to win after that shot. And he knew it. And I think that was the moment Rory knew. I can't catch him now, so I'm playing for second. That's the other thing. That kid from. Was it Germany? Was it?

[C]

No, he's English.

[A]

No, no. Who's the German guy?

[C]

Oh, Schmidt.

[A]

Was he in second? Who came in second? I think he did come and he hit that putt at the end.

[B]

I think him and Rom tried for.

[C]

No, I think it was smally.

[A]

Smally. That was a $35,000 putt. Is that it? Yeah, that was a smaller one because they had to split with the twos. If he'd have gone by himself, it would have been like 600 grand.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's crazy when you think about Those

[B]

putts on 18 people when they talk about pace of play, her guys talking or backing off a shot because a gust of wind comes up. It's the three of us knuckleheads out there. Yeah. We're getting on each other.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Hit the damn ball. But when you're talking about that could be a $500,000 shot.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or putt.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Ah, well, my feeling. Hey, taking more time over shot doesn't mean you're gonna hit a better shot.

[A]

No, but it is. It is. The. The idea that it's like each shot means so much.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

They all swing means. Especially when you're talking about third and fourth place. Which fans have quit on it. We don't care. But those last two foursomes that came are.

[C]

Oh, no, no, I cared. I made a bunch of bets on top 20 and thank God, I. I bet the guy who. His name was Pug or Pugh. Whatever. Yeah, Puig.

[A]

Puig.

[C]

Yeah. I bet him top 20. Fantastic. He finished top 20 because he was tied with about 100 other guys at 20th.

[A]

Yeah. It's crazy. And.

[B]

Well, that and then not only is it the money that week, but now a bunch of people get qualified for more tournaments and things like that.

[A]

It's huge. Those last putts that people just kind of go, hurry up. Get it over with. Those were monsters. And I, and I may have gotten the number wrong because I remember reading that or hearing that right off the bat. But if two other guys tied or if one other guy dropped out of there, and I don't remember how many were tied for that position. It changed literally half a million dollars. Yeah.

[C]

Well. But I've got bets going in. I had Schauffley top 10, and I didn't know where he was because they never showing him.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And he's. He's sitting at three under, I think. And I'm going, is he gonna birdie? He's gonna bogey? What? I, I'm, I'm, I want more that he. He birdied the last hole. Thank God he's in the top 10. And great.

[A]

Hallelujah. You got your money.

[C]

That's you.

[B]

You bet your $10. You're worried about it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And he's spotting for half a million dollars.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

The last thing, and I want to kind of take Dave's thunder before it's five minutes with Madman is Mark Fuhrman died. He was the main, like, reason OJ. He was the OJ's get out of jail free card guy back in the 90s. Did you know, I just found this out and I've got to look deeper into this. That there was a referee that made a bad call in a game. It was. It was basically admitted that was a bad call that put the Bills, and I forget the other team flip. Flopped their pick and kind of changed the course of history that OJ went to Buffalo instead of somewhere else because of where that one bad call in the last game of the season before I got to look into more of it. But I read a little bit about that this morning. The serendipity of all that occurred with the O.J. simpson case was because that would be a great movie if the referee in the game is like, I made a bad call. The draft order changed. OJ goes here rather than Miami. I don't remember if that's the team or not.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It goes somewhere else. Never meets Nicole.

[C]

No.

[A]

Never has any of this, like. It's like a sneeze. Changed the universe. Isn't that crazy? Did you ever meet OJ in Buffalo? Was he hanging around the team?

[B]

He wasn't.

[A]

Never was up there.

[B]

He was doing Some games for NBC,

[A]

but never Legend status. Wandering around the stadium doing no see, that would have been great. So tip of the cap to that conspiracy that, you know, it was all supposed to happen, but Mark Furman passed away and OJ got out of that because it changed the whole trial. Pretty amazing. My name's John Holberg, 98 KUPD, Phoenix, Arizona. That's Dale Hell Astray, the main event he hosts with Steve McCollum. Now we're gonna leave you with five minutes with a madman. Here he is, the Angry Patriot. Go.

[C]

I don't know if I need five minutes, but the show we did today was on data centers. They're going in everywhere. I mean, and the whole point of the show real Matrix is to question kind of everything. We've been lied to about everything. So why are they pushing data centers? I hear that. We've got to keep up with. We can't let China.

[A]

Right.

[C]

I mean, I showed an information today where we have like 4,000 data centers. China has 300. What are we worried about China?

[A]

The new data centers, the ones that have 6,000 giant engines, whatever.

[C]

I mean, we got 4,000. And one of the things we showed is they're. They're planning a. How big was it? 48, 400 acre? I don't even. It's just massive. Yes. Oh, the. The data center that they're planning in Utah will take up double the amount of energy that the whole state is. Is using right now. The whole state is using half of what they will need.

[A]

Yeah. And that's on top of the thing they've got for storage center in Utah that's bigger than any building that would stand straight up and down. It's under the ground. So.

[C]

So the question is, is this just so that I can look back and have a copy of my text or I can have photos in the cloud before these data centers because they're all popping up, I mean, huge the last couple years. What did we do before this? I mean, it's our need going growing exponentially every second.

[A]

It's not our need. I don't think. It's the tracking need.

[C]

Correct.

[A]

That's where you're going to go with this, Keeping an eye on every keystroke you ever make.

[C]

Correct.

[A]

You know, the data center in Utah not only keeps track of what you did text, but what you erased.

[C]

Oh, I'm sure.

[A]

So if you ever go to court and they go to a data center or an at&t thing you can write, I'm gonna kill you, Dale. I better not say that it's in there.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

Everything you do on your phone is recorded and kept through that center. So that massive storage facility.

[B]

And how does that help us?

[A]

It doesn't. Right. It only helps safety.

[C]

And so and, and these date data centers will be using up. Weren't we worried about like climate change and how that's all gone now. Forget that. And it's using tremendous amounts of water.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

That cannot be cleaned up after using

[A]

planet Earth loaded with that.

[C]

Okay, we're good. Okay. So. But, but again we've been told how. Oh we have to conserve our water. We have to. We have to conserve our energy. And now we're going to be using boatloads of it. And everyone's like were we talking about conservation?

[B]

I can tell you one other thing that came out of that. Pulte is going into business with one of these people.

[C]

They're gonna put their plan to.

[B]

They're planning to put a mini data center on your. On these new houses.

[A]

Oh, inside the house somewhere, right?

[B]

Yeah. On the side of the house. And it can. It will take the energy you don't use unused energy, the little bits of energy you don't use and send it to the big data center.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well there you go. See, this is why I don't listen. I'm just gonna. I'm gonna go wander around. I don't blame you. Have a nap or order an Arby's.

[C]

We need to be aware of this and hold our boobs accountable that are. That are making these decisions.

[A]

That's what I'm gonna do. When I say take my pants off, take a nap. We're going to still hold boobs accountable and not think about anything you're saying. The real matrix, you can check it out anywhere.

[B]

You get on Rumble Rumble.

[C]

It's actually on podcast and on Apple.

[A]

I don't know the other day.

[C]

I don't even know where it's found it. Cuz I don't really care. I just do them and I'm done. I. I don't necessarily. I don't necessarily want everyone to be.

[A]

You just get it off your making

[C]

a big deal out of this. Because I don't want to. I don't. Yeah. I don't want to be a target

[A]

for Palen and I always say his name.

[C]

Right. Thank you.

[B]

Goodbye.

[A]

Something else.

[B]

Good night.

[A]

I'm John. We're done.