The Spy Who: Encore – The Spy Who Inspired 007 | The Other James Bonds | Episode 5

Podcast: The Spy Who
Host: Charlotte Philby
Guest: Andrew Lycett (biographer of Ian Fleming)
Date: August 19, 2025

Overview

This episode of The Spy Who is a special bonus exploring the real-life figures who inspired the creation of James Bond. Host Charlotte Philby, joined by Ian Fleming’s biographer Andrew Lycett, delves into the colorful personalities, thrilling exploits, and curious traits that helped shape the world’s most famous fictional spy. Through their discussion, they reveal that Bond is not the likeness of just one man, but an amalgamation of many remarkable individuals – including Fleming himself.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Seduction of Spycraft and the Bond Archetype

• Charlotte Philby opens by sharing public fascination with James Bond and her own frustration that spy life is continually boiled down to Bondisms.

  “...the daily life of most spies is very different from James Bond. So when someone at a party says, ‘Oh, spies like James Bond,’ I tend to reply, ‘Not really, except there is one man who blurs the line between fact and fiction.’” – Charlotte Philby [02:51]

• Philby introduces Dusko Popov, the triple agent, as one known Bond inspiration but asserts that there are several more, and that “the task is to establish which real-life spy is the most James Bond of all.” [01:10]

2. Ian Fleming’s Genesis of Bond

[04:41]–[07:19]

• Andrew Lycett recalls his first Bond book (“From Russia with Love”) and childhood excitement at the world Fleming created.

  “It just was an amazing bit of writing, really.” – Andrew Lycett [03:55]

• Lycett discusses Fleming’s trajectory:

  • His journalism at the Sunday Times
  • His critical wartime role in British Naval Intelligence
  • His exposure to global espionage and vast intelligence networks, connecting with MI5, MI6, SIS
  • The centrality of the Royal Navy and its agents, providing fertile ground for Bond’s globe-trotting adventures

• Fleming’s intent was “to write the spy novel to end all spy novels,” and his unique blend of real experiences and borrowed traits directly seeded the Bond mythos.

  “A lot of people who'd been working as agents behind lines...they would call in, they would talk to Godfrey and Fleming would inevitably be there. And he picked up stuff from all these people.” – Andrew Lycett [06:41]

3. The Real-Life Bonds: Contenders & Traits

A. Dusko Popov

• Introduced as an inspiration, specifically for his Casino escapades and double/triple-lives.
• Popov’s exploits as a womanizer and playboy echoed in Bond’s charisma.

B. Sir Peter Smithers

[08:36]–[10:38]

• Smithers was a naval officer, barrister, and later a diplomat, recruited to Naval Intelligence by Fleming.

• Liaised with French and American intelligence, crucial in forming the CIA’s early foundations.

  “He was a very urbane chap. He was absolutely charming. He didn't have that hard edge of Bond...Bond was the blunt instrument of the state and he was basically a hired assassin in many ways.” – Andrew Lycett [10:15]

• Smithers appears as a character in “Goldfinger,” highlighting Fleming’s tendency to borrow real names and traits for his fiction.

C. Biffy Dunderdale

[11:19]–[14:22]

• Chief of MI6 Paris pre-WWII, born in Odessa, known for bravado and style.
• Traits: Smoked incessantly, drove a Rolls Royce around Paris – highly conspicuous, “hiding in plain sight.”
• Key contribution: Facilitated the transfer of a German Enigma machine to Britain via Polish allies, crucial for Allied codebreaking.

  “Biffy Dunderdale going around Paris...you couldn’t make him up.” – Charlotte Philby [14:14] “He was a bit more...an office man. The thing about Bond was that he was out there in the field...including killing people if necessary.” – Andrew Lycett [14:22]

D. Ian Fleming Himself

[15:19]–[18:34]

• Lycett asserts Bond is, in many ways, Fleming’s “alter ego.” Fleming worked primarily behind a desk but fantasized about field operations.

  “James Bond was, in a sense, Ian Fleming’s alter ego. He’s kind of the person that he would have liked to have been during the Second World War...” – Andrew Lycett [15:42]

• Peter Fleming, Ian’s elder brother, notable explorer and military intelligence officer, also shaped the Bond archetype with his real-life coolness and exploits.

E. Ivor Bryce

[18:42]–[20:09]

• Fleming’s childhood friend, near-playboy, wealthy, socialite; partly inspired Bond’s “racy” lifestyle.
• “Felix Leiter” was named after Bryce’s Christian name.

Structural Insights & Thematic Observations

• Bond is not a direct facsimile of anyone, but “an amalgamation of all sorts of people, including Fleming himself and the alter ego that he would have loved to have.” [20:32]
• Fleming’s social circles, filled with charismatic, brave, and eccentric men, provided ample character studies for his writing.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Fleming’s Sources:

  “He picked up stuff from all these people.” – Andrew Lycett [06:41]
  “Bond was the blunt instrument of the state.” – Andrew Lycett [10:17]
  “He’s a sort of alter ego of Ian Fleming.” – Andrew Lycett [15:42]
  “You couldn’t make him up.” – Charlotte Philby [14:14]

• On Bond’s Nature:

  “The daily life of most spies is very different from James Bond.” – Charlotte Philby [02:46]
  “It’s inevitable that...you’re going to call on these characters that you’ve had dealings with and incorporate aspects of their activities and their exploits and their bravery...” – Andrew Lycett [20:09]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Bond as Cultural Archetype – 02:00–03:40
• Lycett on Bond’s Personal Meaning – 03:50–04:34
• Fleming’s Wartime Inspiration – 04:41–07:19
• Sir Peter Smithers as Bond Inspiration – 08:36–10:38
• Biffy Dunderdale’s Real-Life Adventures – 11:19–14:22
• The Fleming Brothers’ Influence – 15:19–18:34
• Ivor Bryce & Felix Leiter – 18:42–20:09
• Summary: Bond as Amalgamation – 20:32–20:53

Conclusion

Charlotte Philby and Andrew Lycett strip back the myth to reveal James Bond is truly a collage: he is Dusko Popov’s charm, Smithers’s diplomacy, Dunderdale’s bravado, the Fleming brothers’ intelligence, and above all, Fleming’s own fantasies and desires. Through these real-life influences, 007 remains both possible and impossible—a legend permanently poised between reality and fiction.