The Spy Who — Episode 4: The Spy Who Lived Inside Al-Qaeda

Podcast: The Spy Who (Wondery)
Host: Charlie Higson
Guest: Morten Storm
Release Date: November 18, 2025

Overview:

The final episode in the “Spy Who Lived Inside Al-Qaeda” series is a deeply personal interview with Morten Storm, a Danish former boxer and biker who rose to become an embedded operative within Al-Qaeda. Host Charlie Higson explores Storm’s transformations: from a troubled youth to Muslim fundamentalist, to double agent for Western intelligence services, and finally to whistleblower reckoning with the cost of his choices. The discussion unpacks the blurry lines between loyalty, betrayal, and redemption and the true price of living a life in espionage.

Major Themes & Discussion Points:

1. Early Life: Violence, Alienation, and Search for Belonging

• Difficult Childhood
  • (05:05) Morten details a childhood filled with violence, especially from his father:

    "Whatever I did, I would always face violence in my house... I became a very violent person myself... a very unpredictable, a very dangerous person." — Morten Storm

• Seeking Family in Gangs
  • (06:10-06:46) Accepted among immigrant youths and later biker gangs, Morten found belonging and strong family bonds, especially among Muslim friends:

    "The Muslims have some of the best family values I have ever experienced." — Morten Storm

2. Conversion to Islam and Radicalization

• Turning Point

  • (07:45-08:52) At 21, adrift and in trouble, he finds solace in Islam’s discipline and clarity:

    "I was looking for some kind of structure... In Islam you don't turn the other cheek, you hit back. There is permission to fight. And that appealed to me." — Morten Storm

• Transformation and Isolation

  • (09:21-10:34) Embracing Islam fully meant leaving behind old habits — including drinking, drugs, and even relationships.

    "Allah have chosen me to join up with the Muslims in the UK... I prayed five times a day. I asked Allah for guidance… I met some of the nicest people you can ever imagine, and also some of the worst." — Morten Storm

3. Deepening Radicalism and Crisis of Faith

• From Denmark to Yemen

  • (12:09-13:11) Thrown into Yemen’s intensely conservative society, Storm further immersed himself in Islamic study and culture.
  • Culture Shock:

    "I saw them with their big knives... Kalashnikovs over the shoulders… It was like I travelled into a time machine." — Morten Storm

• Radicalization Unnoticed

  • (11:14-11:50) On becoming increasingly extremist:

    "You don't realize it when you are living the moment because it becomes your life... My faith fell apart like a card house."

4. Double Life: From Radical to Spy

• Initial Disillusionment

  • (15:22-16:39) By 2007, Storm's faith collapses when he’s confronted with attacks on civilians.
  • Decision to Spy:

    "I don't want my children to live in a world where there's a lot of race control by Muslim terrorists... I knew the consequences." — Morten Storm

• Intelligence World: Danish, British, and American Agencies

  • (16:58-19:55) Recruited by PET (Danish intelligence), then courted by MI5/MI6 and the CIA, Storm is swept into inter-agency rivalries.

    • British Agencies: Methodical, trustworthy, and value-driven.
    • CIA: Fast-paced, results-driven, transactional.

  • Training with MI5/MI6:

    "The British have really invested a lot... They're so dedicated and honest to the cause..." — Morten Storm

  • On Trust and Surveillance:

    "I told British intelligence, 'I know you put microphones in my car... I'm not here to spy against you. I'm here to fight with you against our common enemies.'" — Morten Storm (21:08)

5. Inside Al-Qaeda: Humanizing the Enemy

• Meeting Anwar al-Awlaki

  • (22:58-24:52) Storm formed a bond with Awlaki, a leading Al-Qaeda preacher.

    "I could probably trust him more than I could trust the CIA... because he would have put his life to protect me, whereas the CIA wouldn't have done the same." — Morten Storm

  • Ambivalence on Betrayal:

    "If they knew I was non-Muslim... I would have been executed in the most brutal ways... But we were each playing a game." — Morten Storm

• Moral Conflict

  • (24:52-26:58) Storm wrestled with the conflict between having once admired Awlaki and needing to betray him for the sake of innocent lives and for a promised $5 million payout from the CIA.

6. Betrayal by the Agencies

• Denied Payment and Risk of Assassination

  • (26:58-28:57) After Storm’s role in tracking down Awlaki, the CIA reneged on the payout and, he alleges, even plotted to kill him to keep him silent.

    "I never imagined the people I used to risk my life for, my own colleagues, would turn their back to me like this." — Morten Storm

• Aftermath of Awlaki’s Death

  • (29:02-29:54)

    "Was happy that he was away... a lot of innocent people will survive. But at the same time, I was also sad because I knew his son, his family... It's something I have to live with."

7. Psychological & Personal Fallout

• Identity Crisis

  • (31:15-32:08)

    "Probably I'm in a huge identity crisis. It's not easy. I'm suffering a lot from PTSD... I'm honestly trying to find myself and it's not easy." — Morten Storm

• Seeking Normalcy

  • (34:50-35:18)

    "There's a big vacuum. I miss my colleagues. I miss the action... but I have done what I believed in."

• Threats, Regrets, and Sacrifices

  • (35:25-38:11)
    • Living under fatwas, Storm refuses witness protection, despite assassination attempts.
    • Regrets not for betraying terrorists, but for being a distant and absent father:

      "I'm not a good father. I failed... I haven't seen my daughters for eight years." — Morten Storm

8. Final Reflections: Regret and Identity

• Would He Do It Again?

  • (36:43-38:11): No regrets about fighting terrorism, deep regrets about family sacrifices.

• Who is the Real Morten Storm?

  • (38:11-38:46):

    "The fundamentalistic Murad and the Christian... would probably have a big fight today. To death."

• Metallica and Identity: A Light Moment

  • (38:55-39:34):

    "Do I still listen to Metallica? Is Satan still in hell? ...you will see me at the [Spy Museum] exhibition with the Metallica T-shirt on." — Morten Storm

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Regret:

  "As for the terrorists and as for my enemies, I have no regrets. And I will do everything again and again and again." — Morton Storm (38:01)

• On Betrayal by Allies:

  "It even gets darker... there was a plan to assassinate me on my last mission... I was warned by one of their own agents." — Morton Storm (28:20)

• On Authenticity:

  "I was one of the worst spies in the world... I’m not a hypocrite, and I don’t want to live like a hypocrite." — Morton Storm (04:29)

• On Trust Among Enemies:

  "They [Al-Qaeda] were more genuine to the cause… The reason they were like this was because they thought I was a Muslim." — Morton Storm (23:24)

• On Identity:

  "It's a culture shock from being a Muslim and being a secret agent…" — Morton Storm (32:18)

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Theme | |------------|--------------------------------------------------| | 03:10 | Trust-building as a spy and outsider | | 05:05 | Violent childhood and entry into gangs | | 08:05 | Conversion to Islam and initial resonance | | 09:21 | Leaving behind old identity for Islam | | 11:14 | Gradual radicalization, not realizing the change | | 15:22 | Loss of faith, decision to spy | | 16:58 | Intelligence agency rivalries | | 19:31 | Training with CIA and MI5/MI6 | | 20:13 | On trust and being surveilled | | 22:58 | Bond with and betrayal of Anwar Al-Awlaki | | 26:58 | CIA denying payment, suspicion of betrayal | | 31:25 | Difficulty of returning to “normal” life | | 34:50 | Life after espionage, lingering emptiness | | 35:25 | On active threats and living unbowed | | 36:46 | Regrets mainly about family, not espionage | | 38:11 | Hypothetical meeting: past vs. present self | | 38:55 | Metallica, a symbol of original identity |

Conclusion

Charlie Higson wraps up reflecting on Morten’s charisma and natural ability to build trust — a skill stemming not from spycraft but from an authentic desire to connect. The conversation underscores the personal costs of espionage: fractured identities, lost relationships, ongoing dangers, and the permanent struggle for redemption and self-understanding. Morten Storm emerges as a man who paid the steepest price for “doing the right thing,” a survivor forever changed by the murky world of international intelligence.