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The Spy Who
The Spy Who Lived Inside Al-Qaeda | Morten Storm on his extraordinary life, being 'one of the worst spies' and the true cost of espionage | 4
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- [00:00]
Wondery Announcer
Wondery subscribers can binge full seasons of the Spy who early and ad free on Apple podcasts or the Wondery app Wondery.
- [00:16]
Charlie Higson
From Wondery. I'm Charlie Higson, spy, novelist, actor, comedian, and this is the Spy who. Thank you for joining us for our final episode of the Spy who Lived Inside Al Qaeda, where I'll be sitting down with Morton Storm himself. It's hard to sum up Morton Storm's journey from Danish boxer, boozer and dropout to one of Al Qaeda's most trusted soldiers. This despite being a pale, ginger haired, six foot one man speaking accented Arabic to the people of Yemen where he was based. He must have been quite the sight then. Suffering a crisis of faith, he is disgusted by plans to kill civilians. It's here that three spy agencies find him. What followed was a cat and mouse game of friendship, loyalty and betrayal. The spy agencies cast him out, only to entice him back again with suitcases laden with cash. His final mission fell apart, but not before he suspected he was to be collateral damage in the hunt for another Al Qaeda general. To hear how his story unfolded, make sure you've listened to episodes one to three of this season. In this episode, I'm going to sit down with Morton to discuss his early days in Denmark, the moment he walked into that library and found Islam and that explosive ending to his spying career. I always get a little nervous before doing these interviews, mainly because I don't want to mess it all up and they storm out halfway through saying, how dare you ask me that? And in Morton's case, I am sitting down to a man who was a Muslim fundamentalist who was desperate to go on jihad. He's a big guy. He's much bigger than me. So I hope that Morton and I are going to get on okay. We should also say that these are Morton's views. They're sometimes strong views and there may be a little swearing. So. Welcome Morton. Thank you so much for joining me on the Spy who. And how are you doing today?
- [02:30]
Morton Storm
Well, I'm doing okay, I think. I keep fighting.
- [02:35]
Charlie Higson
Excellent, Excellent. Now, we know a lot about your story. Perhaps not absolutely everything. I'm sure you still have some secrets, but I mean, when you look back at the spying aspect of your life, how do you reflect on all that?
- [02:50]
Morton Storm
For me, somehow surreal. And I have sometimes to pinch myself in the arm to say, morten, this is actually you. Well, it was a hard battle. Was it worth it? I'm not sure, but. But I did it and I'm here now and I'M so honored to talk to you.
- [03:11]
Charlie Higson
Likewise. I mean, there's so much to talk about. You've had such an extraordinary life. The central thing you had to do in order to become an effective spy was to get people to trust you. So how did you manage that? I mean, not just as a spy, but also from the perspective of being an outsider to radical Islam.
- [03:33]
Morton Storm
Yeah, it was a little bit different from maybe other spies. It was easier for me to continue to live as Murad Storm like the fundamentalistic Muslim, than it was to be a spy who just came in to infiltrate the. The Islamic terrorist organizations. So for me, it was easier to find, to continue to live as Abu Usama Murad Storm as it was to live as Morton Storm, the spy who infiltrated Al Qaeda.
- [04:06]
Charlie Higson
When you started, you weren't thinking about having to having any level of pretense. It was. It was genuine.
- [04:12]
Morton Storm
Yeah, I actually didn't. I don't think I understood the skill of what I was entering.
- [04:21]
Charlie Higson
So do you think you had natural attributes and aspects of your personality that made you a good spy?
- [04:29]
Morton Storm
Honestly, maybe. I was one of the worst spies in the world in history. And why do I say this? It's because you're not supposed to reveal yourself. You're not supposed to talk about who you are. But I'm not a hypocrite, and I don't want to live like a hypocrite. Hypocrites. And that was somehow for me to reveal who I was to these people, a way to forgive myself for who I was.
- [04:56]
Charlie Higson
Okay, come back to that later, I think. I mean, let's go back to your school days in Denmark in the late 70s and early 80s. What was your childhood like?
- [05:06]
Morton Storm
So my childhood was. It was filled with violence. It was a lot of neglectance, betrayal. I had a really Evil Dead dad who was very violent. And whatever I did, I would always face violence in my house. And this language or this communication between me and him, I turned it into other people in my life. So I became a very violent person myself in my very youth. I became a very unpredictable, a very dangerous person. So I have later on understood that he also lived a very tough young life. And he also have been exposed to violence. So I forgave him. And I think that's the only way forward.
- [05:52]
Charlie Higson
And you joined your first gang when you were only 13, and that was the Raiders. And they would commit armed robbery. You'd fight with skinheads. And the gang was mostly local Turks, Palestinians and Iranian Muslims. What attracted you to that group?
- [06:11]
Morton Storm
So we were not really a gang. We were nicknamed the Raiders by the police and authorities, but we were more like immigrants. And they took me into their family like their son. And while I was lacking this attention to be belonged somewhere, these people gave it to me.
- [06:35]
Charlie Higson
So you were attracted to them for their. Sounds like for their outsider status. But also did you find amongst that group sort of strong family bonds that you had missed out on?
- [06:47]
Morton Storm
Yeah, absolutely. Some of the best family bonds I have ever experienced in my life and throughout my adventure as a Muslim and non Muslims. Absolutely. The Muslims have some of the best family values that I have ever experienced. And I still communicate with some old friends and I love them and I tell them that you guys definitely give me what I never had before.
- [07:11]
Charlie Higson
Now back at the time you say the Raiders weren't officially a gang, that was just what you were named by the police, but after that you joined the Bandidos. Were they an actual gang?
- [07:21]
Morton Storm
So after the so called Raiders I joined the Bandidos bmc, one of the biggest motorcycle clubs in the world. Normally that's something that I don't talk about because we have an unwritten rule that we don't talk about what we have done there.
- [07:37]
Charlie Higson
Did you ride a motorbike? Can you tell us that?
- [07:39]
Morton Storm
I didn't, but I did afterwards. But I was in a war. I was in a war for two years against the Hells Angels.
- [07:46]
Charlie Higson
Well, we won't go into that. You'd been in prison and you'd said that you were feeling lost and when you're 21 years old you go to the library to take shelter and you find a book about the Prophet Muhammad. What drew you to that and what did you find in Islam that seemed to fairly instantly resonate with you?
- [08:05]
Morton Storm
I think I was looking for some kind of structure in my life and a foundation, something that I could relate it to. In Islam you don't turn the other cheek, you hit back. There is permission to fight. And that appealed to me. And also that Prophet Muhammad was married, he had a life. It's not like Jesus who was in celibate. So for me Islam was more a realistic way of life and also an appeal that Prophet Muhammad was a human being who fought jihad, who also was forgiven and also was married. There was a of aspects in this book that made me convinced that Islam was the truth at that time.
- [08:52]
Charlie Higson
Had you had any sort of Christian religious beliefs before that or had you been largely atheist, do you think?
- [09:00]
Morton Storm
Most of the Danish people, including myself at that time, was just Protestant by culture and not by practice or belief. We were always taught that Christianity was some kind of. It was just like a story. But today I have to tell you, after leaving Islam and after leaving Christianity and all this, I came back to Christianity and I'm now a Christian.
- [09:22]
Charlie Higson
Oh, okay, that's interesting. So in order to embrace Allah, you had to sort of reject drink, drugs, whatever that was part of your banditos lifestyle and take on the teachings of Islam and you became Murad Storm. I mean, how important was that identity change? Did you feel that you'd left Morton behind completely?
- [09:48]
Morton Storm
I did for a little while. I felt this was my mission. Allah have chosen me to. To leave Denmark to join up with the Muslims in the uk, which I did. I met a Danish Muslim who took me to the uk and from there I was praying five times a day. I asked Allah for forgiveness and I was asking Allah for guidance. That's what I followed for the last, after that, 10 years. And I will say I have met in those 10 years, I met some of the nicest people you can ever imagine, and also some of the worst that you can ever imagine.
- [10:29]
Charlie Higson
When you embraced that new lifestyle, what was your family situation at the time?
- [10:34]
Morton Storm
Yeah, I was engaged to a Christian Palestinian woman, Sama. She left me because of this. I think my family was happy about it because they knew that I changed for the better. They knew I wouldn't drink, they knew I wouldn't take drugs. But then again, they didn't know that I became more fundamentalistic and I became more radicalized and more hateful. And I didn't even know this myself until I stepped out of it.
- [11:04]
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- [11:04]
Morton Storm
After you studied in Yemen and after you learned the Arabic and after you learned the Quran and so on, you became even more dangerous than when you used to be as a bandidus.
- [11:14]
Charlie Higson
You talk about it there as if it was like a sort of gradual process that you only realized, okay, I've become much more radicalized. Was there a particular tipping point or was it that gradual process?
- [11:26]
Morton Storm
You don't realize it when you are living this moment because it becomes your life. It's a lifestyle. If you do find something that is not according to what you believe in, do you have the balls to step out of it and then question all of it? That's what I did. And that's why my faith fell apart like a. Like a card house.
- [11:51]
Charlie Higson
Your first wife had left you. Did you then hook up with a Muslim woman?
- [11:57]
Morton Storm
Yes, I married again in Morocco and I have three kids from the Moroccan woman. And then after her, I have Also been married to a Yemeni.
- [12:09]
Charlie Higson
You mentioned being in Yemen, which was Al Qaeda's favored training ground. Can you remember landing at the airport in Sana'? A? What did that feel like? From Denmark to London to Yemen? I mean, that's quite a culture shift.
- [12:26]
Morton Storm
It was indeed. Yeah. So in 1997, I was just a new Muslim. So a guy in Region Park Mosque, Mahmoud Al Daib, who was in the south from Saudi Arabia, he said, murat, he said, yeah, I give you a ticket to Yemen. Go and study. And I said, all right, I go, and I don't have any hesitations. And two weeks later, I ended up in Sanaa. When I had to go through the airport in the Sanaa airport, I honestly thought with my hands on my heart that Sana' a and Yemen was in Oman.
- [13:08]
Charlie Higson
So you thought you were going to Oman, which is much safer than Yemen.
- [13:12]
Morton Storm
I thought I was going to Oman. So when I landed in Sana', a, I saw the guys with their big knives in the bells. It's called Jambia. I saw them with Kalashnikov over the shoulders. I saw them holding hands, and it was like I traveled into a time machine and we went back in time in a museum. I couldn't believe where I landed. One of the most intensified places to study the Quran and Arabic and also Islamic science. I didn't know anything about this, and I have not met any people in the world who's been more generous to me than the Yemenis.
- [14:01]
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- [14:45]
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- [14:46]
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- [14:51]
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- [15:23]
Charlie Higson
After years of deep commitment to fundamental Islam, you said that by 2007, the faith had lost all meaning for you. And instead of supporting Al Qaeda, you wanted to stop its attacks on innocent civilians.
- [15:39]
Morton Storm
Yeah.
- [15:39]
Charlie Higson
You found PET Danish intelligence who had paid you a visit previously. And, well, I guess you made a decision. Okay, I'm actually gonna fight from the other side. Now, as a spy, did you believe you could make a significant difference?
- [15:56]
Morton Storm
Yeah.
- [15:56]
Charlie Higson
I mean, that's a huge decision.
- [15:59]
Morton Storm
Yeah, it's huge. I understood who I was connected to and what kind of network I had and also what kind of people I can have connection to. But at the same time, I also realized I don't want my children to live in a world where there's a lot of race control by Muslim terrorists and so on. That was my thought, actually. That was my maybe naive thought. I knew the consequences. I knew the people who was going to infiltrate. I knew my abilities to. To reach the top of Al Qaeda, the top of the enemies who wanted to fight democracy.
- [16:39]
Charlie Higson
And it wasn't just pet who were interested in you. Other intelligence services, I mean, the British and the CIA get very interested in you. And there was almost a sort of tug of war. For your information, can you tell us about the similarities, the differences between those different agencies?
- [16:59]
Morton Storm
Yes. So in Denmark, we say the British Mr. 5, Mr. 6 is our cousins. And then we say CIA is our big brother. So we used to call. Hey, Morten. Yeah. Our cousins want to speak to you. I knew it was either mis5 or mi6. And if they say more than big Brother, I want to talk to you. I knew it was the CIA. So the CIA sent us to Iceland for team building. The MI5 paid by the Queen of the United Kingdom at the time. Thank you so much. They sent us to the Arctic Circle up in north of Sweden. So there was always that rivalry between the British and Americans. But we, the Danish people, always loved the British because they were so formal. You could always trust the Brits. The Brits never really wanted to fuck you over. They always wanted to do you the best so they could continue to work with you and get the best results. But they were more detailed, like to gather information. I went to Edinburgh in Scotland. I went for counter and anti Soviet training program with MI5, MI6, the British intelligence. And he said, morten, we're not like the Americans. We cannot give you money. And all this, but we can give you a future. But you have to know that one day the Americans gonna fuck you over. And they were right, they were right about this. Whereas the Americans want fast results. They were more superficial, they were more finance and you know, this is what we're gonna give you. And so on and so on. The Americans were just, money is black and white.
- [18:42]
Charlie Higson
And what about the Danish? What were they hoping?
- [18:44]
Morton Storm
So the Danish said born, listen, it's more fun with the Americans.
- [18:51]
Charlie Higson
So I mean, do you regret choosing the Americans?
- [18:55]
Morton Storm
In a way, yes. Because I always felt secured with the British. I have the best protection, my kids had the best protection from the uk. They always been very, very serious. There was not as much money, it was not as funny as the Americans. But they were so dedicated and so honest to the cause than the Americans. That's why I personally, I do respect the MI6 and MI5 so much and much more than the CIA.
- [19:26]
Charlie Higson
And what sort of training did the CIA give you? Did you get a sort of training montage?
- [19:32]
Morton Storm
Of course, this is the whole point. So the CIA was just cool cash, that's their way to bribe you. But let me tell you about the MI6. I went with the SIS. I mean the British have really invested a lot of energy and a lot of time in me and the Danish government. And I think they don't get the deserve credit as the Americans do.
- [19:56]
Charlie Higson
We. Earlier on we were talking about your character and how you got people to trust you. There must always in a situation like that be some level of suspicion. Do we believe Morton? Is he double crossing them? Might he be double crossing us? Did you get any sense of that?
- [20:14]
Morton Storm
No, I wouldn't do. I've never double crossed and I've never lied to any one of them. If I have done, let's just say that I have lied one time. Don't you think that the media would have known about it right now or they would use that against me? I've always been honest. I always dedicated my work. I put my life at risk. I sacrificed my freedom to fight terrorism.
- [20:38]
Charlie Higson
You did double cross Al Qaeda, but you turned against.
- [20:43]
Morton Storm
Yes, yes, yes, of course, of course. Crossing the Al Qaeda, this was natural for me because I was not a Muslim and the fight to protect people and Al Qaeda is not that. So for me, Al Qaeda, a good terrorist is a dead terrorist or is someone in prison. I didn't have any bad feelings about that, to be honest.
- [21:05]
Charlie Higson
And the CIA trusted you from the start?
- [21:08]
Morton Storm
I don't know if they trusted me for the start. But I never had a reason to lie to them and I never lied. So they always checked me. I knew this. I mean, they will check my phones, they will check my emails, they will check my house, my car, whatever. Me and the British. One time I came home, I saw my, my Jaguar. I had a Jaguar. It was open, the panels in front of the panels. And I told the British intelligence, I said, listen, guys, I know you put microphones in my car. I know this. But you know, I'm with you guys. I'm not here to spy against you or be against anyone. I'm here to fight with you against our common enemies.
- [21:48]
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- [22:21]
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- [22:58]
Charlie Higson
Before, before turning spy, you had met and befriended the jihadi preacher Anwar Al Awlaki. To the CIA in MI6, he was the future of Al Qaeda. And he called for some brutal terrorist attacks across the world when Osama bin Laden was killed. To many, he was considered the next in line to lead the group. But when you met him, what did you make of him?
- [23:25]
Morton Storm
So, Edward, Outlook here. When I met him, he was very honest, straightforward. I don't, I think he sounds really, really weird now to say this, but I could probably trust him more than I could trusted the CIA because he would have put his life to protect me, whereas the CIA wouldn't have done the same. So in this way, he was. And him and his affiliates were more genuine to the cause. They were more genuine to me and genuine to their belief at the same time. The reason why they were like this to me was because that they used to think that I was a Muslim. If they knew That I was a non Muslim, the situation would have been different and I would have been executed in the most brutal ways. You have seen beheadings from ISIS in Iraq, how they crucified people and cut their throats and so on and behead them. That would have been my way. But they didn't know. And I was playing my game. They were playing their game, obviously thinking that they were. That I was on their team. But Anwar in himself was a very outgoing person. He was very educated, very well spoken. He reached people to the hearts who were like minded.
- [24:53]
Charlie Higson
But at the same time, he is organizing terrorist attacks. I mean, could you see the threat that he posed?
- [25:00]
Morton Storm
Yeah, I absolutely see that. But terrorist attack in our eyes, in your eyes and our eyes, is not the same as the way that he look at it. So for him it was very justified to kill non Muslims if they don't believe and submit to what he believe in. I was, I was actually sad because in a way I tried to convince him that I didn't want to be a part of attacking civilians. He confirmed that Al Qaeda was targeting civilians. And for me, I'd rather see Anwar in prison and then change maybe later on than somebody who got killed.
- [25:47]
Charlie Higson
The CIA promised you $5 million to find him again. I mean, how conflicted were you? This guy was once your friend. And that's a lot of money as well.
- [26:00]
Morton Storm
To be honest, if I died, that money would be worthless. The money of course is good because the money I had before that, the $250,000 that people forget to tell about and the media is that I spent half of that money to create a cover called Storm Bushcraft and Storm Outdoors. I went to instruct the courses in the Arctic Circle with, even with Ray Mears. I know the British, if the British people know Ray Mears in the Bushcraft, I went with him and I went to his, in his school in the uk, studied how to for survival and so on. And then we spent two weeks in the Arctic Circle together. People don't understand how much I spent out of my own energy and money to continue this war. And I was not promised at that time $5 million. It was only after. When the Americans say we can't find.
- [26:58]
Charlie Higson
Him, the CIA basically denied that your input had led to them finding where he was and reneged on the deal and denied you the $5 million. I mean, what state were you in at this point?
- [27:17]
Morton Storm
Well, to be honest, in the beginning I believed them. I said, you know what, that's fine and I have no issues with this. Until I read the Sunday Telegraph explaining how CIA finally tracked down Nwarlalgi. And that was my mission. And that was just after he got killed. So when I read that message or that article, I contacted the Danish government and say, guys, can you please read this one because it looks like wine. They read it, they say, yeah, that's you, man. The CIA met me in Helsingor in Copenhagen and told me that I played the highest role in tracking down, in killing you played the highest role, but yet they couldn't even say thank you to me for what I done.
- [28:11]
Charlie Higson
Well, it's. It's a dark and dirty world, isn't.
- [28:15]
Morton Storm
Is very ungrateful. And, you know, it even gets darker than this because I continued after this. I'm not going to stop here. I'm going to stop at the top. And then in the end, the CIA, there was an attempt or there was a plan, a plot to assassinate me on my last mission. And I got, you know, I was warned by one of their own agents from the CIA in China that they were going to assassinate me because they didn't want this news to get out. It's just really dirty, really ungrateful. And I'm so disappointed about this, to be honest. I never imagined the people I used to risk my life for, my own colleagues would turn their back to me like this.
- [28:57]
Charlie Higson
How did you feel when you heard that Anwar had been killed?
- [29:02]
Morton Storm
Well, because I knew him before and after as a Muslim. I was. I knew he was going to get killed. I knew. And I also knew that he plotted to kill a lot of innocent people. But in a way, I hoped it was not me. I was hoping that it was somebody else. Until I read that article in the Sunday Telegraph. Was happy that he was away, but was also because of the A lot of innocent people will survive. But at the same time, I was also sad because I knew his son, I knew his family, I knew him. So I was somehow hoping that it was not me. But it was. Yeah, it's something that I have to live with.
- [29:54]
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- [30:25]
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- [31:16]
Charlie Higson
Morton, let's talk about the third act of this story. How easy was it switching from Murad back to Morton?
- [31:25]
Morton Storm
Oh, so difficult, man. I'm still trying to find myself. I'm still trying to find the purpose of life and purpose of their belonging. Probably I'm in a huge identity crisis. It's not easy. It's not easy. It's been very, very difficult. I'm suffering a lot from PTSD and the Danish girl. I won. I'm the only. I'm the first one in Danish history who beat the Danish intelligence and got a compensation for ptsd. But I'm honestly trying to find myself and it's not easy.
- [32:09]
Charlie Higson
Well, you'd had so many versions of yourself, I suppose, and including ones that you had to keep secret. And then now it's, this is the real me.
- [32:18]
Morton Storm
Yes. It's a culture shock from being a Muslim and being a cigarette agent. And then sometimes when I listen to my own, I watch my own interviews, it's like it's not me who's talking there. And it's been very emotionally painful. I met up, by the way, I met up with some of my old colleagues from the Danish intelligence and also the British MI5, actually. They were so honest and so noble and to give me a hug and just to make sure that I am on the right path, I'm doing the right thing.
- [32:54]
Charlie Higson
And do you ever regret your decision to go to the press about your spying, to clear your name, to explain to your family who you were?
- [33:01]
Morton Storm
No. I had to go public because if I didn't do, I thought my life would be more in danger. And actually he was a psychiatrist from the MI5. And I asked him, I said, look, am I crazy or what? Because I'm going to the news, am I crazy? Did the Americans really want to kill me? He said, no, your fear is not paranoia.
- [33:20]
Charlie Higson
He said, and having spent so much of your Life being secretive for want of a better way of explaining. I mean, seeing your name in all the papers must have been quite surreal.
- [33:33]
Morton Storm
It was like I watch another person. I think the time where I really realized how big my work and who I was was when the spy museum in Washington made a. An exhibition of me for more than 10 years. And also there are scholars at the museum, former head of the CIA and so on. When they stood up and historians stood up and said, I'm the most important spy in the war on terrorism and the post Cold War. And I said, what the man? Is this really me they're talking about?
- [34:09]
Charlie Higson
And how did your family react to it?
- [34:12]
Morton Storm
My mom, she wrote the book and she doesn't really. She doesn't care. She doesn't know. And my. Most people in my circle have. They don't read the book. They don't really want to know. And it's like they're trying to deny. They just want to be me. Before I was a Muslim, before I was an agent and all this. They just want me to be more.
- [34:35]
Charlie Higson
Than the old Morton, the old one. Well, you. You have touched on this. But what was your life like after all those years of spying and returning to normal lives?
- [34:50]
Morton Storm
It's very frustrating, I tell you that. There's a lot of. There's a big vacuum. I miss my colleagues. I miss the actions. I love living their life on the edge of. I am not scared of danger. I'm not scared of death. I live with very few money, but I have done what I believed in. I fought for what I believed in, and I didn't compromise that for any price, actually.
- [35:19]
Charlie Higson
Well, you talk about having no fear of death, but you must be at risk. Is your family at risk as well? I mean.
- [35:25]
Morton Storm
Yes, yes, they tried to kill me. There's a fat horse where they shoot up my pictures and there's fatware for my. And he tried to kill me in Denmark, like, physically and. But I wasn't scared, actually.
- [35:39]
Charlie Higson
Yeah.
- [35:40]
Morton Storm
No, that's a lie. I was scared, but I didn't want to show them that I was scared and I survived. Obviously, that's why I'm talking to you now. But I knew that this is the consequences for. And the price to pay for what I've done. And it is what it is. I just thanked the Lord for this.
- [35:58]
Charlie Higson
And do you live your life in any way differently because of the threats?
- [36:04]
Morton Storm
I chosen not to. I chosen to live my life normally. I know that the chances. I could just hide. Actually, the Mi5 gave me an offer to live in witness protection programs and change my name and all this. And I said, no. What did I do to deserve this? What did my children deserve for me to be dead? Bordenstorm is alive and I fought this evil and I'm proud of it. And I will not bow down or sell my freedom or sell my life for threats or terrorism.
- [36:43]
Charlie Higson
So it sounds like you have no regrets over what you've done.
- [36:47]
Morton Storm
I have no regrets in regards to the threats and the people I've worked against. But I'm not a good father. I am. I failed. I should have been better in this way, maybe less selfish, being too arrogant, maybe. And that have. Obviously, that's reflected on. On the way that my children and I are interacting today. But one day I was traveling from Birmingham to Copenhagen to Jakarta, and then Doha and Sanaa in Yemen, Nairobi in Kenya. And I was Murat Stone, the infiltrator. But then as well, I had to be also the. The father of my children. Today, while we're talking, I'm not. I haven't seen my daughters for eight years. I didn't give them a hug and kiss. I didn't whisper in the ears that I love them. I lost my children. And I personally thought that I would manage to be successful as an agent and also as a undercover Muslim fundamentalist. But as for the terrorists, and as for my enemies, I have no regrets. And I will do everything again and again and again.
- [38:11]
Charlie Higson
So if the fundamentalist Murad was to meet the Morton of today, what would he say to you?
- [38:23]
Morton Storm
The fundamentalist. Wow. Okay, so I think the fundamentalistic Murat and the Christian or whatever you call Morten would probably have a big fight today. To death.
- [38:47]
Charlie Higson
So one last question, very serious one. Do you still listen to Metallica?
- [38:56]
Morton Storm
Do I still listen to Metallica? Is Satan still in hell? So let me tell you this. If you Google Morton Storm Spy Museum, Washington, you will see me at. At the museum in the exhibition with the Metallica T shirt on. I stood there with the Metallica T shirt on because I couldn't have a suit on. I could have everything else. But they asked me, mon, please dress the way you want, because they did this long interview that they showed me in the museum, and I said, what? Right, that's fine. So I put on a Metallica T shirt and Thor's hammer. Lars Uluk, the drum player for Metallica, read my book and he saw me in the. In the museum.
- [39:35]
Charlie Higson
Excellent. Well, thank you so much for talking to us today, Morton. I mean, there's so much more we could have talked about. But it's really interesting to see your side of that story and just what an extraordinary life you've led.
- [39:48]
Morton Storm
Thank you, sir.
- [39:52]
Charlie Higson
I needn't have been worried about interviewing Morton. He's a really very charming guy, disarming and charismatic. And one of the first things we talked about in the interview was how he got people to trust him. And he said it wasn't a technique. He's just naturally interested in other people, likes talking to other people, likes putting them at their ease. And I can see how he could easily earn people's trust and respect and, yeah, indeed, friendship. But the fascinating thing about talking to people from the world of espionage, other layers of secrecy that perhaps you can never unwrap. Thank you for listening and do join us for our next episode of the Spy who, hosted by Indra Varma.
- [40:44]
Wondery Announcer
Wondery subscribers can binge full seasons of the Spy who early and ad free on Apple Podcasts or the Wondery app.
- [40:58]
Charlie Higson
From Wondery. This is the final episode in our series, the Spy who Lived Inside Al Qaeda. This episode of the Spy who is hosted by me, Charlie Higson. Our show is produced by Vespucci for Wondery, with story consultancy by Yellow Ant. The producer of this episode is Ashley Cliver. Our sound designer is Iver Manley. The supervising producer is Natalia Rodriguez. Music supervisor is Scott Velasquez for Frison Sink. Executive producers for Vespucci are Johnny Galvin and Daniel Turkan. The executive producer for Yellow Ant is Tristan Donovan. Executive producers for Wondery are Estelle Doyle, Theodora Leludis and Marshall Louie.
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Wondery Announcer
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Charlie Higson
Oh.
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