Colleen Pelly: Mental Health In The Workplace

Summary

Summary of "Colleen Pelly: Mental Health In The Workplace" – The Squeeze Podcast

Release Date: July 30, 2025
Host: Taylor Lautner
Guest: Colleen Pelly
Topic: Mental health in the workplace

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Introduction

In this impactful episode of The Squeeze, host Taylor Lautner welcomes Colleen Pelly, an expert in workplace mental health and founder of Linchpin, a people operations consultancy. The conversation delves deep into the challenges and misconceptions surrounding mental health in professional settings, drawing from Colleen’s personal experiences as a COVID nurse and her journey in entrepreneurship amidst postpartum struggles.

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Personal Journey and Background

Colleen's Experience as a COVID Nurse

Colleen opens up about her tenure as a COVID nurse during the pandemic, highlighting the lack of mental health support provided to frontline workers. She shares poignant anecdotes, such as workplaces offering superficial gestures like beach chairs instead of meaningful mental health resources.

Colleen (00:13): "A lot of companies see mental health as, like, a checklist item. If we make a post during Mental Health awareness month, we offer yoga, then we're good."

Transition to Entrepreneurship

Inspired by persistent disconnects in traditional recruitment firms, Colleen founded Linchpin with the support of her husband. Balancing the demands of a new business while navigating postpartum anxiety, she emphasizes the importance of support systems and self-compassion.

Colleen (05:14): "What you've been trying to ask for, what you've always wanted."

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Key Topics Discussed

1. Redefining Mental Health in the Workplace

Colleen critiques the superficial approaches many companies take towards mental health, advocating for ingrained, day-to-day practices that prioritize employee well-being over mere token gestures.

Colleen (11:05): "Mental wellness is not just, I'm giving you time to go meditate. It's like I'm creating a work environment where your mental health is prioritized."

Challenges Identified:

• Checklist Mentality: Companies often treat mental health as a box to tick rather than integrating it into the core culture.
• Burnout Culture: Rewarding constant availability and overworking counteracts mental health initiatives.
• Lack of Clarity: Undefined success metrics lead to employee burnout as they strive to meet ambiguous expectations.

2. Psychological Safety and Leadership

Creating a psychologically safe environment is crucial. Colleen emphasizes the role of leadership in modeling vulnerability, admitting mistakes, and fostering open communication.

Colleen (24:07): "If someone is telling me they're experiencing burnout, I'm going to respond with adaptability and adjustment for what you're doing."

Strategies for Leaders:

• Modeling Behavior: Leaders should demonstrate vulnerability and accountability.
• Transparent Communication: Open dialogues about mental health and workplace expectations.
• Empathetic Layoffs: Handling layoffs with transparency and support, rather than blindsiding employees.

3. Coping with Layoffs

Colleen discusses how layoffs, though challenging, can offer pivotal lessons about self-worth and the importance of life beyond work.

Colleen (26:34): "You can do your job well and then you can step away from it. You can be present with your family and with your life."

Best Practices for Empathetic Layoffs:

• Avoiding Blindsides: Ensure employees are informed respectfully and timely.
• Providing Support: Offer resources like LinkedIn support and assistance in job transitions.

4. Balancing Multiple Roles

Navigating roles as a founder, wife, and mother requires intentional habits and boundary-setting. Colleen shares practical tips on compartmentalizing responsibilities to prevent overwhelm.

Colleen (33:12): "Tackling burnout looks like being super present and prioritizing the things that I need."

Habits for Balance:

• Scheduling Self-Care: Treat personal time as non-negotiable meetings.
• Delegation: Relying on support systems to share responsibilities.
• Presence Over Productivity: Focusing on being present rather than constantly productive.

5. Common Misconceptions About Employee Mental Health

Colleen debunks the notion that mental health can be adequately addressed through perks and highlights the need for systemic changes within organizations.

Colleen (21:45): "Mental wellness is not just benefits; it's how we're looking at our leadership and the space we're creating for our team."

Misconceptions Identified:

• Perks as Solutions: Believing that yoga classes or wellness apps alone can resolve deeper mental health issues.
• One-Size-Fits-All: Ignoring individual employee needs and experiences.

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Practical Takeaways

1. Integrate Mental Health into Company Culture: Beyond token gestures, embed mental wellness into everyday operations and leadership practices.
2. Foster Psychological Safety: Create environments where employees feel safe to express vulnerabilities without fear of judgment or repercussion.
3. Prioritize Self-Care and Boundaries: Whether as a leader or employee, setting clear boundaries is essential for sustainable mental health.
4. Empathetic Handling of Layoffs: Approach layoffs with transparency, support, and empathy to mitigate negative psychological impacts.
5. Redefine Success: Shift from hustle culture to a balanced approach that values personal well-being alongside professional achievements.

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Notable Quotes

• Colleen on Superficial Mental Health Initiatives (00:13):

  "A lot of companies see mental health as, like, a checklist item. If we make a post during Mental Health awareness month, we offer yoga, then we're good."

• On Being Replaceable (26:00):

  "You can do your job well and then you can step away from it. You can be present with your family and with your life."

• Empathy in Leadership (24:07):

  "If someone is telling me they're experiencing burnout, I'm going to respond with adaptability and adjustment for what you're doing."

• Compartmentalizing Responsibilities (33:12):

  "Tackling burnout looks like being super present and prioritizing the things that I need."

• Final Takeaway on Self-Kindness (49:12):

  "Be kind to yourself and create space for yourself to like, take care of you."

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Conclusion

This episode of The Squeeze offers invaluable insights into the often-overlooked aspect of mental health in the workplace. Colleen Pelly's candid discussion underscores the necessity of moving beyond superficial solutions, advocating for genuine cultural shifts that prioritize employee well-being. Her personal anecdotes serve as both a cautionary tale and a roadmap for individuals and organizations striving to create healthier, more supportive work environments.

Listeners are left with a profound reminder to prioritize self-care, foster empathetic leadership, and embrace the understanding that true success encompasses both professional achievements and personal well-being.

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Additional Resources:

• Linchpin – Recruitment with Purpose (Link to Linchpin's website)

Transcript

[Colleen]

The following podcast is a Dear Media production.

[D]

You know what we need for you?

[Colleen]

What?

[D]

We need to put a severance chip.

[Colleen]

Oh, my gosh.

[D]

So, hey, your work day's over.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

Burnout and disengagement are at all time high.

[Colleen]

A lot of companies see mental health as, like, a checklist item. If we make a post during Mental Health awareness month, we offer yoga, then we're good. Great. We've created this ability to be reachable all the time. There's almost like, an expectation that responsiveness is, like, rewarded. There's some companies where people try to, like, set those boundaries, and then it's like, well, Colleen responded to me at 10pm so I'm gonna promote her. An email can wait a day. Like, no one's gonna die if I don't get an offer letter out.

[C]

That's something I've actually had to work on because I'm so used to.

[D]

That's what I was gonna say. You're a perform like you want to perform. You want to do the best you can.

[Colleen]

We're all replaceable and no one really.

[C]

Cares Toughen up, buttercup like.

[Colleen]

Foreign.

[C]

Drops. Welcome back to another episode of the Squeeze. We are so excited for this episode because we're about to dive into all things mental health and the workspace. And if you guys know my story at all, you know that mental health in the workspace is a big part of part of my story. For those of you who don't know, I worked as a Covid nurse, and we were not really provided any form of mental health care as we were working as Covid nurses, which then, as a result, led to lots of burnout, ptsd, and all of the above. So that's why I'm so excited about this episode. And I think whatever your job is, I think there's going to be something for you to relate to. Whether you're, you know, a president of a company or you're a new employee somewhere, there's really gonna be something that can help you wherever you're at. We're gonna talk about lessons that can be learned from layoffs, Finding balance that can prevent burnout, which is something that I really needed to know. Psychological safety in the workplace. Redefining your strengths along with daily mental health tools. Habits that are useful not only in the workspace, but more importantly, at home. So, without further ado, I would love to introduce you Lemon drops to Colleen.

[Colleen]

Hi.

[C]

Welcome to the Squeeze.

[Colleen]

Thank you so much.

[C]

You are our expert today of all things mental health workspace. And like I said, I'm truly just so excited because I think this is a topic that is so. What's the word? I'm trying to say.

[Colleen]

Prevalent.

[C]

Prevalent. Thank you. Prevalent today with people working through Covid. But also I feel like we just hear of, you know, conduct and people not caring for their employees. Mental health, or even them trying to, but maybe not knowing how to.

[Colleen]

Right. Or it's talked about and not actually actioned.

[C]

Yes, precisely. Or like, in my experience, we were given, you know, like, beach chairs as a thank you for our oh, my goodness work. Do you remember that? When I came home with the beach chair when I was working. So I worked as Covid nurse when I was working. Amazing. There wasn't any form of mental health care or even anyone being like, hey, maybe, you know, get some mental health services.

[Colleen]

But the speech chair.

[C]

But the speech chair. They were doing these things, which I. God bless these hospitals. They had no clue what they were doing. But no. I remember one day after my night shift, I walked down and there was just like a row of beach chairs. They were handing out all of the staff, and I was like, what am I gonna do with this? Maybe they were like, take it to the beach and have a mental health.

[D]

Yeah, the beach is nice for your mental health.

[C]

On my 0 days off when they were calling me in because we were so at midnight. We can laugh about it now. It's fine. Yeah, we can laugh about it now.

[Colleen]

We've done.

[C]

We've done the therapy, we've done emdr, We've moved on from it. But I'd kind of love for you to just share a little bit about who you are, who Linchpin is as a company, and what inspired you to start it.

[Colleen]

Great question. Good starting point, Good opener. Yeah, it is a good opener. So our tagline is like recruitment with purpose. And so at a super high level, we're a people operations group and consultancy firm. But our bread and butter, the core is like hiring and recruitment. So companies bring us in when they're looking to add to their teams. And this is kind of like entry level through executive level search. Yeah. And I. I wanted to create something that was sort of like people first recruitment. We talk about why we started. I think the shortest answer would be solving a problem I kept running into, which I think is where a lot of things come from. But I worked in house for a long time. So, like, hiring directly for companies for a long time. For over a decade before I started Linchpin. And in that time I partnered with a lot of external recruiting Firms So, like, people like Linchpin.

[C]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

And it just never landed for. It's that sort of felt like there was always a disconnect. It never felt human. It felt sort of like transactional, I guess is the right word. And never really felt like people cared about the candidate experience or what they were going through or really understanding culture or like, what we're looking for. So it was actually my husband who was like, okay, well, then why don't you make it so? Why don't you create what you've been trying to ask for, what you've always wanted? And that was kind of the spark that. That got it all started.

[C]

Oh, my gosh. I love that.

[Colleen]

Yeah, it's. It's been a journey, but it's. I'm so grateful for the push.

[C]

We love a husband that is a support system.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You have it encouraging.

[Colleen]

Yeah.

[C]

I know when you first started your company, you had just given birth or you were about to. What can you tell me about.

[Colleen]

Isn't that wild to even think about? So Lynchburn was like a super side hustle first.

[C]

Okay.

[Colleen]

And then when I went on my first maternity leave, sort of all of my business development work came to fruition at one time. And so I just was like, okay, let's do it. Let's dive in. Let's go all in and we'll try it. Thinking back, that's insane.

[D]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

I don't even know just thinking about it. I don't even know how I was operating. But, yeah, I think I felt like there's never going to be a right time, but let's try this. But it was definitely the hardest thing I've ever done.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

What's been your experience, like, navigating being a business, a small business owner, while also, I'm sure, trying to navigate.

[Colleen]

Man, postpartum, it's so wild. Like, it's like being. Being a parent or learning how to be a parent is hard. Starting a business is hard. And then, okay, let's do it at the same time while we're also navigating postpartum health. And I dealt with a lot of postpartum anxiety as well. And so it was this space. Space of just never feeling. I don't know if enough is the right word, but it's sort of like, how am I going to be present for this baby and then also build something that I'm trying to grow? And so I was consistently in this, like, spiral of doubt and like, am I enough or am I doing enough? How am I handling this? And kind of what gets you out of it, I guess, like, well, therapy. But also how are we leaning on our support systems and, like, letting go of this idea of perfection and understanding that, you know, we're doing the best we can. But it was a really. It was dark.

[B]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

Yeah. But coming out of it, I think I learned a lot about resiliency and understanding that you're just gotta, like, take one step forward, keep moving, even when you feel overwhelmed and just like, asking for help, I guess, and remembering that people want to help you and you have a support system. But I don't know, it's so funny. It felt like this fog, you know, I kind of. I'm out of it. Well, I guess I'm going back into it again. About to enter the box again. But I. I don't know. I. I'm grateful for the support.

[B]

Yes.

[Colleen]

Is the best way. And you guys know that you need help.

[D]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

What was therapy like for you during that time? Had you done therapy before? Yeah.

[Colleen]

So it wasn't new for me. I think I'm a super advocate for it. I feel like. I mean, I think there's less of a stigma now, but, like, going to therapy is just like, you know, I go to the gym to work out. It's like my brain workout. But anyway, it was great. I think probably at first it was in that time it was just a lot of me being like, what am I doing?

[B]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

But I think it was helpful to sort of have these tools to remind me how to, like, bring myself back into the moment and really find grace.

[B]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

I think that's what we all need in those dark times is, like, I don't know, self forgiveness and compassion for ourselves. And more than anything, though, I think, like, if I'm actually looking back, I learned a lot about empathy for myself. But also anyone you meet might be dealing with, like, this invisible struggle that we don't know about. And like, that sounds so simple, but it really shifted my perspective. And I think now more than anything, more than any business strategy, like, that time actually probably helped, like, create the heart of what linchpin is. And this, like, dark thing became a really positive one.

[D]

Totally.

[B]

I love that.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

I relate a lot to, like, knowing. Realizing that everyone is going through their own thing.

[Colleen]

Yeah.

[C]

It's so random, but when we were planning our wedding, it was honestly the biggest thing that, like, stood out to me. And we didn't really have that big of a wedding, but it was. So many people were like, oh, like, there was. I feel like I just knew what everyone had going on in their life because they're like, maybe I can do this. I have this. Oh, a family members this. Oh, I have this job.

[D]

And it was just how much effort it took for. From each person to show up to this.

[C]

And it was really eye opening to me. I'm like, wow, everyone, like, obviously, I know everyone has stuff going on, but, like, really getting to see that and hear it, because we don't hear it. You know, our friends have. There's always stuff going on, but we'll get together on the weekend and then they'll tell us about it. But it was really eye opening that truly there's something going on.

[Colleen]

Well. And I feel like we all are like the people pleaser in all of us is sort of like. I mean, I'm probably projecting myself, but it's like, you want to be like, everything's fine. Yeah, I'm great. We're good. We got this. Like, I'm confident and it's like, you're like drowning back here. And on the outside you're like, everything's fine. And like, that's not sustainable. Right?

[D]

Yeah, exactly.

[Colleen]

It's so tiring.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

We've been. I forget what guest it was somewhat recently, but they said we need to treat ourselves like we treat others in the sense of if your friend calls you and is like, hey, I'm really struggling today, you're going to be like, can I come over? Let me bring you ice cream.

[Colleen]

What do you mean, what can I do?

[D]

I'll drop everything.

[Colleen]

Right. But we don't do that for.

[C]

We're dealing with it. We're like, tough enough. Buttercup.

[Colleen]

That's so true. And it's like. Or, you know, you wouldn't speak to other people the way you, like, speak. We're all so hard on ourselves too, man. That's so true. I like that.

[D]

Who was that? Do you remember?

[C]

I think it was Christina Perry.

[D]

I think it was.

[C]

Maybe it was.

[D]

Sounds like something.

[C]

It really stuck with me and I honestly think about it multiple times.

[D]

She's very smart and very deep, so I like that.

[C]

I know. Yeah, it's good.

[Colleen]

I'm going to bring that.

[D]

So true. I've never thought about that.

[C]

Yeah, it's such like a. It's a cool, like, spin on such an old phrase. Like, treat others like how you want to be treated.

[Colleen]

Yeah, exactly. We've all been told that, but no, actually.

[D]

Yeah, right.

[C]

It's so funny.

[D]

Okay. Diving into mental health in the workplace. You've said that. Workplace, mental Health needs a redesign.

[Colleen]

Yeah.

[D]

What do you think is broken in the way most companies approach it today?

[Colleen]

Yeah, this is a great question. So I've completely. This is so important and something that nobody talks about, but I feel like there's current state. I would say a lot of companies see mental health as like a checklist item. Like sort of like if we make a post during mental health awareness month or we offer yoga, then we're great.

[C]

We're covered or we share.

[Colleen]

Yeah, exactly, we're covered. And so I think the broken piece is what companies are presenting or promoting and then like versus, like how they're operating day to day. And so what I mean by this is like, you can't promote mental health and then reward burnout or generate a culture of burnout or reward overworking and not take into consideration sort of people's mental load. And so I think there's like a piece here where mental health is like this sexy buzzword and then it's like, well, what are you actually doing to implement it? And so I think companies need to. You know how it sounds easier said than done, but it's like, how are we evaluating what leadership looks like and communication and managing workload expectations and setting boundaries and psychological safety and all of those things. And so I think the disconnect is people feel like it's just something that they need to check off. And it's like, no, it needs to be ingrained into how you actually operate every day. So I feel like then there are companies trying to bridge the gap. It's just a lot of companies don't.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[Colleen]

And I've been in your situation too, where it's like, here's some pizza or like, you know, here's a beach chair. It's like, that's not going to fit. Fix the systemic issue of toxic leadership. Yeah, right.

[C]

So what would you say if someone came to you, a business owner, and they're like, hey, I really want to implement true, like mental health care into my workspace.

[Colleen]

Yeah. What.

[C]

What would you say would be the first step for them to take?

[Colleen]

Yeah, great question. And I think the super high level, like we talk about how to create mentally aware workspace or what that means is like, we need to start looking at people as full humans who have lives outside of work. And so it's not just about seeing people as how they're performing or how they're sort of adding to the bottom line. It's sort of like, how are we looking at them as whole humans outside of that? And so I think there's a piece there around remembering that, yes, there's deadlines and there's bottom lines and all these different pieces, but, like, at the end of the day, people have this life that's outside of work. And, like, how are we showing that we support people as full humans and giving them the space to show up as a full person at work and not just, you know, I don't know, optimizing performance?

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

I mean, you mentioned it, but burnout and disengagement are at all time highs.

[Colleen]

Yeah.

[D]

I mean, does it just directly tie back to what you were talking about, or are there any other hidden stressors behind why you think that is happening.

[Colleen]

Or, like, what they look like? I feel like probably one of the biggest ones that we've kind of done to ourselves is we've created this ability to be reachable all the time.

[D]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

And so we're sort of like, oh, I guess we'll be like, we're always on. And so there's almost like an expectation that responsiveness is, like, rewarded.

[B]

Right.

[Colleen]

And so. And then, you know, some. There's some companies where people try to, like, set those boundaries. And then it's like, well, Colleen responded to me at 10pm so I'm gonna promote her. And it's like, well, that's not the culture, so we don't want to promote that space. And then the other piece for Burnout for me that I. This is more like from my own experience too. But I feel like if you're not setting your team up for clearly aligning what success looks like for them in their role, they're going to be chasing. It's sort of like chasing this, like, unclear dream or unclear vision. And so I think there's a lack of clarity in the workplace, too, that creates burnout because people are sort of overachieving to hit this target that they don't even know what it is. And then. And if we don't create a safe workspace, we talk about psychological safety. If we don't create that, then everyone's gonna be scared to speak up and ask questions. And so then they just continue this, like, cycle of doom.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Being reachable all the time is we.

[Colleen]

Do it to ourselves.

[D]

So, yeah, it's true.

[Colleen]

And I feel like what I hate is I've even come into the spot where, like, I have a really high sense of urgency in the way I communicate.

[B]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

And so then if people don't get back to me and I'm like, hey, Taylor, I message you 15 minutes ago. Have you not written back yet, you know, and it's like, what? Why am I expecting that?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Or my thing, I feel like, is during the day, let's say we'll, like, we'll have a taping, or I'll have like, a few meetings and then I'll go to this appointment. And then I don't. I'm not actually sitting down on my computer until like, 7:00pm, right. And then that's when I'm responding to emails. And then, like, I'll always tell our assistant, I'm like, don't respond. She's gonna giggle. But I'm literally like, don't respond. I'm sending you all of these things. Like, don't even look until the morning. Which I'm like, I guess it's good that I'm, like, acknowledging it, but I need to get. I probably should just set aside time to do it in the morning.

[Colleen]

Well, sometimes people too, have it. Like, I'm responding at a time. That works for me. You don't feel like you have to respond, like, in their email note. But I think maybe that's what it looks like for you. I think as long as you're not doing it all, like, I think there's, like, we talk about, like, the future of work, not necessarily being 9 to 5, and it's about finding that flexibility. And maybe evenings is what works for you, but, like, yeah, you can't expect other people to do that.

[B]

That too. Yeah.

[C]

My girlfriend does this thing. She. She's constantly traveling everywhere and she, she. Her previous job, there was no boundary with work, home, nothing. She was so burnt out.

[Colleen]

Right.

[C]

Like, 247 was not being compensated for the amount of hours that she was working. And so when she started working for this new company, it's definitely still a very stressful job. But she'll send me her calendar and starting at, like, I guess, 5pm It'll just be like five to midnight. It says, like, out of office. So every day in her calendar it says that. So it doesn't, like, alert her on her emails.

[Colleen]

Oh, so. And like, that's such a healthy boundary.

[B]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

I love.

[C]

She's like, I'm away. And I. I was honestly shocked.

[D]

She's good about that.

[C]

I know.

[Colleen]

Yeah. Yeah. I guess, like, part of it is you have to do it.

[D]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

Like, you actually have to, like, maintain that.

[B]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

But it's. I mean, I mean, well, you were in nursing, so, like, that's actually life and death. But a lot of what we're doing, an email can wait a day. Like, no one's gonna die if I don't get an offer letter out.

[C]

Yeah, that's something I've actually had to work on because I'm so used to.

[D]

That's what I was gonna say. You're a perform like you want to perform. You want to do the best you can. So like you do a lot of this to yourself.

[Colleen]

Yeah, I'm the same way. I also have a people pleasing thing where I want everyone to like me, which is so unhealthy. And then I'm like, well, if I do this now, yeah, maybe they'll bring you back.

[C]

The life or death thing, I've had to. Which I still have not even come close to doing, but I've really had to try and retrain my brain that I don't need to do 20 things at once in the sense of like, I'm so used to going to the med room, pulling meds for these three patients. On the way. I'm stopping by the supply room, getting more flushes. I'm going to this, I'm pulling, pulling this doctor, I'm pulling that. Like, it's literally, it's like just you're, you're filling everything into your hands, then you're stopping at all these places and doing all these things. And I do that at home. Like, I like, I'll literally, I'll have a basket, which, you know, may be healthy, maybe not, but I'll like get a laundry little hamper thing and I'll put everything I need to do upstairs or like grab them. Like, okay, I'm gonna be walking by this podcast room. I'll put this there. This has to go in the guest room. Oh, this actually needs to go in my bathroom.

[Colleen]

And like, do you find you actually don't finish tasks because you're sort of half starting a lot of things?

[C]

No, I mean they, I do end up closing the loop at some point, but no, I'll start and I'm like, oh, wait, let me do this. And then it's. Yeah, it's just like this never ending cycle in my brain, which in there's.

[Colleen]

A mental load there that is exhausting.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And in a nursing hospital environment, you have to be you, you have to be thinking like that and critically thinking of what tasks need to be done first, what's going to take the longest, which one's the most important, which one can wait. And that's how I like literally view like cleaning my house. And it's having to learn to like retrain my brain that no, I Can vacuum downstairs.

[Colleen]

Yeah.

[C]

And then I can vacuum upstairs, and.

[Colleen]

It'S gonna be okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And then I can just wash the dishes, and that could be fine. And then, like, I don't need to do everything at once.

[D]

You know what we need for you? We need to put a severance chip.

[Colleen]

Oh, my gosh. So when I just finished season.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[Colleen]

So good.

[C]

So good.

[Colleen]

The season one finale. I can't even season one finale. I'm still thinking about it, but, yeah, we finished season two, too. It's so good. I hope we don't have to wait forever for season two.

[D]

I have a feeling we will have to. I know.

[C]

Maybe I'll film three. Three and four together, like, at the same time.

[D]

That would be nice.

[Colleen]

That'd be great for us.

[B]

I know.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Because I don't. I don't.

[D]

But yeah, you could benefit from that.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Hey, your work day's over. Okay.

[C]

Yeah. Or what I'll do is I'll allow myself an hour to be manic, and then after. Okay, I'm gonna sit. I'm gonna be calm. Like, I'll just set a timer.

[Colleen]

I love this.

[C]

My mom was always, like, just set a timer of, like, play someone's album. And, like, once you get through the album, like, you're done. Or it's almost like you're, like, timing yourself. Like, how quick can I do this? Which is, you know, can be good and bad depending on how the outlook is.

[D]

It helps you.

[Colleen]

Yeah.

[D]

It helps you get through it and set your boundaries so then you can relax after then.

[C]

But most of the time, I do need, like, I will set, like, a timer for an hour or 45 minutes, whatever, and I'll clean because I'm clearly have some OCD problems. But I'll. I'll just do things that are around the house to quiet my brain. And then, like, in the. When I wake up in the morning, I'll spend 30 minutes, like, just cleaning or putting stuff away and straightening up the house.

[Colleen]

Well, and then it helps you start your day.

[B]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

Like, I like making my bed first thing in the morning, too. I feel like it's a great start. I will say, too. Oh, do you not do that?

[D]

We're very different people.

[Colleen]

Most.

[C]

Most of the time, it's. It's half of the bed has.

[Colleen]

I love. I feel like I'm accomplishing something. When I started my day making my bed.

[D]

Totally.

[Colleen]

Oh, no, it's too hard.

[D]

I get the concept. I really do.

[Colleen]

I will say having kids has forced boundaries, too, because we have to pick them up from daycare school. And so I. That's been a forced boundary for me or a forced time to be like. And so something I've been really working on is being super present in what I'm doing.

[B]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

At that moment. And I struggle with it too, where, like, my brain is like, you have all these things going on and you need to be a wife and a CEO and a friend and a daughter. And I have to get 10,000 steps and drink enough water and like, ah. And it's like I've realize the hard way that we can't be everything all at once. And so, like, how do I be super present with my kids and my husband when I'm with them? And then when I'm at work, I'm super present on that thing. And yeah, I found it helps me and I've like, gotten a better output from it, but it's so hard in practice.

[B]

Yeah, that's so true.

[C]

I'm curious, what, what are some common misconceptions that companies have when it. When it comes to trying to support employee mental health?

[Colleen]

Oh, great question. I think probably the biggest thing is that, like, mental health means perks. So we talked about this a little bit and I think, like, it's not a wellness app or a yoga class or a beach chair. I'll keep going back to it, but I think the misconception is that people think it's this outside support, so sort of like something you can add to your benefits list. And so it's not just benefits, it's like, how are we looking at our leadership and the way we're communicating and the, like, space we're creating for our team? And like, mental wellness is not just, I'm giving you time to go meditate. It's like I'm creating a work environment where your mental health is prioritized and your psychological safety is. Is prioritized. And also like, we've created a leadership system that supports that from the top down and actually implements it. So I think the biggest misconception is that, yeah, like a wellness day or, yeah, like a yoga class or something like that, or pizza or whatever is like, that's, that's going to solve it. And it's like, it's. It's not performative in that way. And it's definitely not one size fits all. And so I think there's a space where you have to, like, individualize it and just create the space for everyone in your company. But I don't know. I think there's A lot of companies trying, but I feel like there's a lot that aren't too like. I mean, we talk to candidates all the time who are just like crying at their desk and yeah, need to get out. And it's incredible what a leader can do.

[B]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

So myself personally, like, I, when I was still working in house, I had the same job at two major cities. So, like when I moved from Toronto to Vancouver, I kept the same role. The only thing that shifted was my leader. And I went from. It was my favorite job I've ever had to me being the person who was crying at my desk. And it's like this incredible thing where toxic leadership can shift such an experience to like, how are we being really mindful in how we're training our leadership to create that safe space too? It's incredible the difference it can make. I'm sure you all have people in your life who have managers that they struggle with.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Yeah, that's gotta suck. Going from going from an incredible leader, like backwards, you'd rather like have it tough at the beginning and then like get the amazing leader and be like.

[Colleen]

I mean, my silver lining person personality was like, well, now I can like understand what it can look like.

[D]

Right.

[Colleen]

I try to like be a glass half full out there somewhere there.

[D]

It exists, just not with me right now.

[C]

That, that, yeah, I relate to that one a lot. Okay. You talked about a little bit about psychological safety.

[Colleen]

Yeah.

[C]

What. What does that mean?

[Colleen]

Great question. So the super, super high level would be you're creating a space where people feel safe. So creating the environment where people feel like it's okay to ask for help or admit mistakes or admit burnout or like looking for support. And so it's not like if we're trying to figure out what that could look like. Like, if you came to me and we're saying I'm your leader and you're telling me you're experiencing burnout, I'm going to respond to that with like adaptability and adjustment for what you're doing. And I'm not going to respond to that with like pushback or defiance or you have a new, like a junior team member and they come to you and they're like, hey, I don't really understand this. Do you mind explaining it to me again? And you're going to see that as curiosity and not incompetence. And so I think it's just really creating space where people feel safe to speak up, I guess. And feedback doesn't just come from top down. It goes both ways. And so if you think about, you know, a great follow up to that is, okay, well, how do you do that? Or what does that look like?

[B]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

The biggest thing for leaders. Right. Would be modeling it. It sounds so simple. But I think the first step is always, you know, if I'm going to be managing the function or leading the group, I can admit my mistakes and I can hold myself accountable and I can create a space where I show you that it's okay to do that. But more importantly than anything, I think it's coming back and repairing.

[B]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

So we're all human beings. We're going to be. I think about this in parenting too. We're all human beings and we come to a space, I'm going to lose it. I'm going to yell or I'm going to be upset about something. But if I can come back and close that loop and have that conversation and hold myself accountable to my behavior, that's going to create way more trust with your employees than anything. But I. So I think the first step is really just helping your leadership understand what it looks like. And you have to hold them accountable to modeling it. And if they don't, it's not going to work. And then your turnover will be really high.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

You've said. Which I'm curious about, you've said that layoffs can actually be a good thing.

[Colleen]

Yeah.

[D]

So I'm curious.

[Colleen]

My endless optimism, Right?

[D]

Exactly. I'm sure somebody who's just been laid.

[Colleen]

Off, they're like, okay, yeah, sure. This feels great.

[D]

Could you walk us through your experience and what changed for you after that?

[Colleen]

100%. I think the starting point is layoffs in general. Regardless. There's such an ego hit.

[B]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

Even if it's a mass layoff where they're laying off. Like, you feel like, oh, yeah, am I bad at my job? Am I a bad person? Am I bad? And it's like this. It's very easy to fall into this, like, spiral of doubt.

[D]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

And so I'll start by saying for sure, feel the feelings.

[B]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

Like, I think it's. We don't have to go silver lining right away. Like, it's okay to be upset. And, um, But I think for me, when I can step away from it, I had such a big learning from it. So how do I explain this? Okay. I. I feel like what you learn when you're getting laid off too, is like, I was able to walk away and I was in a place personally where I was that person who was working 24 hours like all the time pushing boundaries, getting burnout, and then you're replaceable.

[B]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

And so I think like the biggest learning for me was that we're all replaceable and no one really cares. And I mean that it sounds so bad. What I mean is still do your job and perform, but like, remember that you're very easy to replace. And yeah, a lot of these decisions are business related. So it's like this isn't about who you are and how you operate as a human being. This is about what the bottom line was for the company and how they need to operate. And so the biggest lesson for me, or like, why I would say it's one of the best things that's happened, is it just taught me that my life is so much bigger than work. And I think I was so career focused and feeling like the only way to succeed would be to hustle or like to really grind and dig in. And it's like what you learn is if you find a company that appreciates these things, but also remembering that, like, you can do your job well and then you can step away from it. You can be present with your family and with your life.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[Colleen]

It's hard though. It's. It's definitely an emotional time. So anyone who's going through it, I'm not trying to not validate your feelings.

[C]

For sure, but I mean, honestly, I feel like that's a really healthy way to look at it because I think you're right most of the time it really is. Has nothing to do with the human itself and more so what was best.

[Colleen]

For what they needed at the time even. Or like sometimes companies over hire for specific projects and then the project finishes so they let everyone go. But I. I don't know. I think it's like you think back to like working through your vacations and like leaving Thanksgiving dinner to go finish an email or something. And then when you walk away from it, you're like, why did I do that?

[B]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

You know, they obviously didn't see you in the same way. So I think it's like, how can you be great at your job but also remember it's just a job.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Yeah. How do you recommend from the leader point of view, they approach layoffs in a way that centers empathy.

[Colleen]

Yeah. Great question. Because no one's doing it well. No, a lot of people. That's not fair. I've seen it done really poorly and I've seen it done really well, but I think the most. This is going to sound so obvious, but don't blindside people is step one. Like, you know, a few years ago there was that mass layoff at X and they all just woke up and couldn't get into their email. And then so it's like, that's how I find out. So I think step one is don't blindside people. I think you have to have these hard conversations and so be as transparent as you can about what you can share and create a space and offer tools to make sure that they feel heard and questions can be answered and then also following up. But, you know, I think the bad side would be like those blind sides. And then I've also seen companies who are incredibly empathetic and, you know, they do a mass layoff and then they create a database and it's like, hey, LinkedIn or Hey World, here's a list of incredibly talented people and what they're great at. They're all open to work. How can we support them? And, you know, getting their permission, of course. But it's like, how can we help people? You know, like these, these people are humans. I feel like that's. We forget sometimes that there's human beings on the other side of it. So transparency, empathy, clear communication would be the pillars.

[C]

It honestly just sounds like we need to just care a little more about, like, each other and what's. But I mean, you know, I'm also not a president of a very large company and I'm sure that, you know, obviously can be hard to do when you've hundreds.

[Colleen]

I can't even imagine. Like, yeah, like there's. It's probably really hard because it's like, well, we need to make money. But I think you can still create policies and procedures that get what you need to get done without. I don't know. It doesn't need to be so harsh, I guess.

[C]

I'm curious, how do you personally protect your mental health as a founder, wife, mom, all of the above. Especially having a startup company, because I could talk a little bit more after, but that is something I definitely struggle with. I mean, obviously I struggled with it in a different way when I was nursing, but even now, more so when, when you are the founder of a startup company, it's like, it's your baby. So like, I, I'm always like, if I'm not gonna do it, it's not gonna get done. Which I feel like I've, you know, I have some amazing people that work with me and help take a lot of the load off.

[Colleen]

I'm out of that too, though.

[C]

I've Retrained my brain, but it's. I think there's like a pressure we kind of put on ourselves because I'm like, at the end of the day, I'm the last line of defense because it's mine.

[Colleen]

Well. And you're always going to be the one who cares the most if it's yours. Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

At the end of the day. So I guess I'll start by saying I need to work on it.

[C]

Great.

[Colleen]

But I think the. We talked a little bit about this before, but the learning to sort of compartmentalize has been very useful for me. And so scheduling my life, I guess is the best way to put it. So like when I have mom things, I'm super focused in mom mode. When I'm doing linchpin things, I'm super focused there. I make sure I find time to like call my parents and that kind of thing. But learning that you're not going to be everything to everybody all at once would be my biggest piece of advice. It's never going to work. I tried it. All that ends up happening is you sort of half ass a million things and really you feel like you're letting a lot of people down. And so for me, tackling burnout looks like being super present. And then also prioritizing the things that I need and so moving my body every day or getting a good amount of sleep or, you know, having time with my partner, all of those things. And how do I fit that in and what does that look like to make sure that I'm prioritizing that just as much as I am like an important client meeting or something like that. And you know, it's easier said than done. But I also, yeah, I want my kids to remember that I was at everything and I was there every day and all those things. So it's like figuring out how to delegate and ask for help. And also, yeah, we talked about this before, but Grace, it's not gonna always work.

[B]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

And I. You gotta be kind to yourself and progress, not perfection. Isn't that like. That's the quote. But it's hard.

[B]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

It sounds like we're similar in the way. I'm hard on myself too. And it's. Oh yeah, we have to be kind.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[C]

He yells at me. Not really, but he yells at me all the time.

[D]

For what?

[C]

You don't actually.

[Colleen]

Oh, just like being hard on yourself.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Or just, you know, he's like, put the laptop away like it's 9pm let's watch severance.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[D]

Priorities.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But I think it's good because I think I feel like we're a good balance of.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, work and motivation and also the reminder of letting, like, relax and.

[Colleen]

Yeah.

[C]

Watch TV or.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Have dinner.

[Colleen]

I think everybody needs that. My husband's like that, too. It's nice.

[B]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

It's like. Balances me out.

[C]

It's a good balance. I'm curious, what's something that you used to believe about success, maybe, that you no longer do?

[Colleen]

Oh, yes. Okay. I think even, like, five years ago, Colleen or 10 years ago, Colleen would say, yeah, like that hustle culture, like, working all of the time and, you know, always getting there first and always being responsive and prioritizing. Everything in my career, above everything else, was what I thought success looked like. And it was the only way to go up, to be like, well, that's the only way I'm going to grow. And I think now what I've learned is sort of like, patience, boundary setting, prioritizing, like, success for me looks like finding that balance and feeling that balance and feeling like I'm taking care of myself. Whereas before, I think it would be like, you don't need sleep. Finish this.

[B]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

How are you gonna get more clients? Or, like, whatever that looks like. And what's amazing is when you set the boundaries and you find that space, everything's actually better.

[B]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

And, you know, we talk about finding time. Those pockets are finding time for ourselves. And, like, my husband and I are very supportive in that way. Like, what do you need? Like, he's a big. He loves mountain biking and skiing or. And it's like, how do we create this space to allow everybody to do that? And, man, we're such better parents and we're such better partners when we, like, take care of ourselves first and whatever that looks like. So.

[B]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

But again, easier. It's all easier said than done.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

What does your husband do for work?

[Colleen]

He's a civil engineer.

[C]

Oh, cool.

[Colleen]

Yeah, so he's. His brain is so much more logical than mine, and it's so useful to, like, he'll talk me off. Um, but he. He's, like, you know, very busy and could also be working to all hours of the night. And so, like, we're both very good about being like, stop it. Let's go watch lemming dumb and hang out or play cards or something like that.

[B]

That's sweet.

[D]

Teamwork.

[Colleen]

Yeah, exactly.

[C]

It's important. I'm curious what you would say to someone like me that maybe feels guilty for, like, not putting in enough effort or not feeling like they're putting in enough effort.

[Colleen]

Yeah. At first I'd say, yep, right there with you. So listening to our own advice. But I think, okay, protecting your peace is gonna be like the biggest thing for yourself. And like, the guilt is coming from feeling like you're failing or like, that's. For me, that's where it comes from, is feeling like I'm. I'm guilty because I'm not being present enough with my kids, or I'm guilty because I'm not caring enough about this business. And so, like, what I would say to you and to like myself to listen to would be set the boundaries to understand, like redefine what success looks like for yourself and then remind yourself that you're doing that. And so I think if we talk about, you know, maybe success is that you're able to go on a run in the middle of the day. Or maybe success is, you know. Yeah, like I'm able to pick my kids up every day or I have time to go see my family or whatever that looks like and remembering that I've created a life that allows for that and sort of giving yourself grace. But I think we feel guilty because we feel like we're not doing enough. But like, how do we remember that? Like, oh my gosh, you're doing way more than you should be.

[B]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

And sort of letting go. I think there's guilt sometimes for like high performers where you feel like resting is not productive.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[Colleen]

And so.

[D]

Really.

[Colleen]

Oh, yeah. Well. And so. So like you're trying to like taking you time.

[B]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

Or even like, I'll admit, like I'm away right now and my husband has the kids and so I'm here for work, but I have so much guilt because I left him and now he. And it's like, it's okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And when you're with him and you're with the kids, you feel guilty for like, not crazy.

[Colleen]

So I think like the biggest piece of advice that we all need to take is just like A, giving ourselves grace, but B, like remembering that you are doing a lot and you are enough. And I think, I don't know, maybe it's like how we find our self worth and what that looks like and reevaluating that. I think I used to feel like, like your outward appearance or like, I don't know, there's like a validation from others that I needed to like feel successful. Like, especially in this like crazy world of like social media. It's like, how present my. Or what does that look like? And it's like redefining that like success actually comes from like how or do I feel about how I'm operating and how I'm showing up? But I don't know. I need to take my own advice.

[C]

Yeah, I mean it's, it really is like, I feel like at the core, if you look at, if you look at like the feeling of like guilt and the pressure that we put on ourselves. Yeah, really, majority of the time is not there. It's such like, it's such an interesting concept that so many of us just do it and I guess it's. I've never really thought about it. I mean, obviously I have. But just you just flat out saying because like we're scared of failure.

[Colleen]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, I've never really thought about that on a deeper level before. Sorry, this sounds like a.

[Colleen]

No, this is good.

[C]

No, I love the way really. But yeah, that's, that's kind of what it is. And it's just interesting that that is such a collectively shared feeling.

[Colleen]

I feel that way about like mental load in general too. Like, we talk about how like you and I are having a lovely conversation, but in my brain I'm like, okay, did I sign the kids up for swimming? Or like, did I finish the will? Or like, how do I. What does this look like? Or like and it's, how do we shut it down and be present? And I think like that's probably my like overarching message for mental health in general is like focusing on where you are and what you're doing. And I kind of feel this is woo woo YouTube. I feel like that's kind of like the key to life.

[B]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

Is just enjoying it.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

Like instead of worrying so much about like what's next. It's like, how can we be great at where we are today and right now?

[C]

Yeah, that's so good. My girlfriend, she. Because I'll do this thing which again, can be healthy, can not be healthy. But when I'm, when I'm working and when I'm like focusing on something, I'll have like a notebook next to me and if I have like those drive by thoughts of like, oh, I needed to like go pick up the dry cleaning, I'll write it down because I'm like, I don't want to forget or. Yeah, that honestly, that is a bad thing because that is something that needs to be like picked up. I need to move the blankets into another closet. I don't know, something, something that is random. No, no urgency, no nothing. Truly just like a Drive by thought. Yeah, I'll write it down. So then it's like it's gone. But I know it's there because I feel like I can struggle sometimes with, I'll have a thought and I'm scared I'm gonna forget it.

[B]

Yes.

[Colleen]

This is my life. I'm always worried I'm gonna miss something or forget it.

[C]

But my. My girlfriend told me she struggles with the same thing. And her therapist was like, I think she's. She may have been the one that told me this whole, like, drive by thought idea, but she's like, if it's just a drive by thought, it's probably not important enough for you to, like, remember in that moment. And it will come back.

[Colleen]

The will come back thing is key too. I feel like somebody told me once too, if something's important enough, someone will remind you A or B, like, I don't know, you'll just be sitting there and all of a sudden it's like, whoo, blankets or whatever it is. It does come back. But you're right. We. We like, if everything is urgent and important, then nothing is.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

It's so true.

[Colleen]

I heard you guys talking the other day about, like, things that people learn from therapy. And I was like, we need to do this more. I feel like someone just needs to have a blog that's like, here's all of the advice.

[D]

My therapist g. Helpful.

[Colleen]

The best.

[C]

I loved those. It's such good reminders. And I honestly feel like majority of those things were a maximum of eight words. Like, but they're so good. And they're such good reminders. And.

[D]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

And it also kind of makes me feel like, weirdly, we're all in it together and you're like these things that feel so isolating and alone. And you're like, oh, yeah. Everyone okay?

[D]

Totally.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Once you say it, once you, like, talk about it and you hear someone, you're like, oh, that's not just me.

[Colleen]

Yes. Oh, great.

[C]

Great. I've got to know, I'm not the only one. I'm curious, were there any pivotal moments that made you realize you needed to start prioritizing your well being?

[Colleen]

Yeah, just like, guilty. I'm gonna. There's lots, but I'm gonna. There's two that come to my brain.

[B]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

So the first one would be postpartum in general. And so I have never felt so alone while surrounded by people. And I think it's terrifying. You're vulnerable, you're scared, you're doubting your ability to do anything. And like, I Said at the same time trying to like build linchpin. And so I was kind of letting everything I cared about go. I mean, you're not expecting, you're not going to be like going to crossfit while you're just had a baby, anybody. Like, I wasn't taking time for myself. I wasn't going to therapy. I wasn't asking for help. And then my people pleaser was like, I'm great. Oh my gosh, this mom thing is so fun and it's amazing. And like, meanwhile I'm like crying in the shower. And so that was probably one of the big ones. And the learning there was leaning on people and you're doing more harm by not asking for help than you are. It's not sustainable.

[B]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

And then the other one is sort of a broader thing for my whole life where I was kind of evaluating the role I play in the different circles I'm in. And so what I mean by this is I've kind of fallen into. I'm the person that people come to for advice or to talk through things. And I actually, like, this is a point of pride for me. I actually really like it. I think I'm a judgment free zone always. I will support vulnerability, all of those things, and I don't ever want that to stop. But I got to a point where I was like, well, who's asking how Colleen's doing? And it's like this exhaustion where you're carrying everything else for everyone and no one's really taking you into consideration. And so there was a learning there for me and just like setting boundaries and you don't have to answer the phone every single time or do everything. And it's like you have to prioritize yourself. And a big one for me too is. Yeah, like letting my husband in.

[B]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

I think I always felt like I had to be together. Like, I was like, everything's fine, I've got it. I'll do daycare, sign up, and we'll do all these and it's like, no, man, we're a team and we're in this together. And like, when you talk about it and you open up and you ask for help or I. I don't know, it's just so much more powerful. But yeah, I think there's just like a beautiful reminder that we're all humans and life is so hard and we don't have to do it alone.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

It's so good. You mentioned the importance of like, small intentional habits.

[Colleen]

Yes.

[C]

How do you protect those pockets in Daily. Daily life. And what do those look like for you?

[Colleen]

Yes. This is so important and this is going to sound so dumb and simple to you, but I schedule it like I would a meeting.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[C]

I did that for a small period of time and then I.

[Colleen]

Well the stopped. The problem is if you don't, it's the very first thing that's easy to go to the wayside would be like absolutely my 10am walk.

[B]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

You know, like it's very easy for me to be.

[D]

Yes, I don't need it today.

[Colleen]

Yeah. But it's like, no, okay, I can stop this. So I think like I have to schedule it in and it sounds so it's not romantic but it'll be like. Like Brian, like my husband and I will be like we're having lunch together today because we both work at home. So it's like we're eat lunch together today and it's like we're not going to have meetings during that time and this is our time together. We're going to play skip. Oh. Or cards or something. Or you know, I'm going to go for a walk or I'm going to work out and just remembering that that client meeting can wait till 2pm if I'm doing this now. So I think I have found if I prioritize scheduling those times for myself and I take care of me first, I show up way more powerfully in all aspects of my life. So it sounds not sexy, but I'd say like add it into your routine and schedule and just like don't not do it. Like sleep meditation has been helpful for me or starting my day with gratitude has been helpful for me. So there's all these pieces that routine. I'm a very. I'm a creature of habit and having kids has made me very routine, to be honest. But I think not letting those little things that feel like they're easy to replace go away. So like take the walk or get a massage or whatever it is.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Clearly we need to just like put things in our schedule with my girlfriend putting her. Not office hours.

[Colleen]

Yes.

[C]

Like.

[Colleen]

Or like I have a group of girlfriends where it's like the first Wednesday of every month we have dinner and if you can come, amazing. And if it doesn't work for you, great. But that's like a standing day so you can have that like quality time with your friends. And yeah, I actually think it's like if that wasn't in there we would. It would be like, I don't know, you talk about it finally Made it out of the group chat.

[B]

It's like.

[Colleen]

But if you create the consistency, it'll be there.

[C]

I literally just press posted that specific.

[Colleen]

Oh, really? Yeah. It's true, though. You talk about. We always talk about going on trips. You never do it. But just make the things happen.

[B]

I know.

[Colleen]

There's never going to be a right time for stuff too, either. That's like one of the big things. It's like, just go on the trip.

[C]

I know.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

My girlfriend's last year. I don't know if we're going to end up doing one this year because one of the girls is pregnant. So we're trying to sort that. But beginning of last year, my friend sent this. I don't know, some app where we basically went through every weekend of the year.

[Colleen]

Okay.

[C]

That we were available.

[Colleen]

I love this.

[C]

And all five of us did it. And out of all five of us, there was three weekends out of the whole year that we were all available.

[Colleen]

Okay.

[C]

And we end up. Ended up picking one of them. We were like, we don't know what we're doing. We're holding this weekend. No one put anything on the weekend.

[Colleen]

Yeah. But like, this is. Please send me whatever this app is.

[C]

And then literally, like three weeks before, we were like, let's go to Wilmington. Like, we were like, okay, great.

[Colleen]

Okay, great.

[C]

We finally just, like, randomly picked where to go.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And you did this, like, how long in advance?

[Colleen]

Yeah, great question.

[C]

The.

[Colleen]

Well, that's holding the day we went.

[C]

Oh, well, I mean, we did it in December 2023. And we went August 2024.

[D]

That's okay.

[C]

Or I think it was.

[Colleen]

Yeah.

[C]

Was that last year? Two years ago?

[Colleen]

It's crazy that you need to do it that far, but it's you. It's wild.

[C]

It was December of some year and then like August of the following seven months or so.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah, but that I. I love that, like, every, like, Wednesday, the first Wednesday of the month with.

[Colleen]

Well. And like, you guys have insane schedules. Like, how do you find time for friends and family? And, like, what does that look like for you?

[C]

It's a really good question.

[Colleen]

It's hard.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

No, it definitely. I mean, luckily the people that are our close friends understand that that is our schedule. And we have amazing friends that will come over on a random Tuesday night when, like, they happen to be free and we're free or they're traveling and. Yeah, we just kind of like, we should.

[D]

We do the best we can, but. But, you know, one of the problems is we feel guilty that we can't do it for everyone, you know?

[Colleen]

Right.

[D]

You always, you have somebody that is upset or hurt or offended.

[Colleen]

Right. Like if you're gonna be in a certain city.

[D]

Yeah.

[Colleen]

And you can't.

[D]

Or just, or just as simple as not finding the time to see them. And it's like, you know, you have all, all these friends and family. It's like, how do we see everyone and do everything so everybody feels appreciated?

[Colleen]

You can't.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[D]

So that's the pressure part.

[Colleen]

There is a beautiful thing with like, I don't know, when you think about, like real, true foundational friendships, like, there's people, you don't have to talk to them all the time. And when you see each other again, you pick up. Right, right. But like, I feel that too. Like, how did I call my mom today? Or have I texted my brother or my sister? Like, whatever that looks like. And it's like, you gotta remember, it's a two way street too. This is something that I think about all the time. I'm definitely like a glue person and I bring people together things. But it's like, yeah, people need to like, it goes both ways.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

For sure.

[D]

If this may be a tough question, maybe not.

[B]

I don't know.

[D]

If people take away one thing from this interview, what would you hope that would be?

[Colleen]

Oh, this is a great question. And it's easy, actually.

[D]

Okay.

[Colleen]

Be kind to yourself and create space for yourself to like, take care of you, I think would be the biggest thing. I think we feel this, we just talked about, but we feel this pressure in our lives to be performing for everyone all the time. And it's like nothing is as important as taking care of yourself. And you're going to be way better for it if you take that time. So, yeah, take care of yourself, but also just like, be kind. And again, this is me projecting. Be kind to yourself.

[C]

It's so good. Well, we're so thankful to have had you on. I feel like this episode, Episode, it's going to help everyone no matter what job or position you hold.

[Colleen]

For sure.

[C]

And really just a lot of personal stuff too. And such good reminders. And we'll leave a link down below so people can check out linchpin. But thanks for making the trek over here.

[Colleen]

Of course. No, thanks for having me. This was so fun. Foreign. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.