Gabby Thomas: Staying on Track

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Squeeze – Episode: Gabby Thomas: Staying on Track

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Squeeze
• Host: Taylor Lautner
• Episode: Gabby Thomas: Staying on Track
• Release Date: August 13, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Squeeze, host Taylor Lautner engages in an in-depth conversation with Gabby Thomas, a renowned professional sprinter and gold medalist. The discussion delves into Gabby's athletic journey, the mental and emotional challenges she has faced, and her advocacy for mental health and women's sports.

Early Challenges: Dealing with Stalkers

Gabby opens the conversation by sharing her unsettling experiences with unwanted attention and stalking:

[00:14] Gabby Thomas: "A group of strange men has been following me wherever I travel. Stalker. Like showing up at the airport."

She recounts incidents where individuals purchased dummy plane tickets to surveil her, leading to heightened anxiety during her travels.

[00:59] Gabby Thomas: "They bought dummy plane tickets so they could follow us into the boarding area."

Gabby emphasizes the invasive nature of such actions and the entitlement some individuals feel, which not only threatens her sense of security but also affects her mental well-being.

From Atlanta to Massachusetts: Introduction to Track and Field

Originally from Atlanta, Gabby moved to Western Massachusetts, where her athletic journey took a pivotal turn. Introduced to track and field at the age of 12—more by her mother's encouragement than her own interest—she initially found the sport unappealing.

[05:53] Gabby Thomas: "I had this idea of track and field is just running, which, to a kid, that sounds really boring."

Over time, particularly during her junior year of high school, Gabby began to "fall in love with the process of getting better" and embraced the discipline and resilience that track demanded.

Academic Pursuits at Harvard: Balancing Neurobiology and Athletics

Gabby's ambition extended beyond athletics. She pursued a major in neurobiology at Harvard, driven by a desire to understand and improve societal support for her neurodivergent brothers.

[10:35] Gabby Thomas: "I wanted to do research and figure out how as society, we can make it a better place for those learning styles."

Balancing the rigorous demands of a neurobiology degree with Division I track athletics proved challenging. Gabby considered quitting track during her freshman year but ultimately persevered by "reframing sacrifices as opportunities."

[12:20] Gabby Thomas: "I didn't think about going to the track as a sacrifice but more as an opportunity."

Transition to Professional Running: Embracing Opportunities

After a standout junior year at Harvard, where Gabby won the NCAA championship and set a collegiate record, her athletic prospects expanded dramatically. She recognized the potential to compete professionally and even aim for the Olympic team.

[24:05] Gabby Thomas: "I just knew there was an opportunity to run professionally."

Joining the Beeford Bailey Track Club in Texas, Gabby sought an environment conducive to elite training. However, the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020 led to the postponement of the Olympic trials, instilling uncertainty about her athletic future.

Health Scare: Discovering a Liver Tumor

During routine testing for a hamstring injury, Gabby discovered a mass on her liver. This alarming diagnosis triggered intense stress and fear, compounded by the uncertainty surrounding the delayed Olympics.

[31:14] Gabby Thomas: "I know how long and hard I had worked for that... thankfully, everything did end up being fine."

The six-week ordeal, which included further imaging and biopsies, underscored the fragility of health and the importance of mental resilience.

Tokyo Olympics: Triumphs and the Aftermath

Competing in the Tokyo 2020 Olympics, Gabby secured a bronze in the 200 meters and a silver in the 4x100 relay. The experience was a blend of ecstasy and unexpected emotional exhaustion upon returning home.

[35:00] Gabby Thomas: "I felt so drained emotionally and mentally."

The post-Olympic phase brought a mental crash, as the high of competing was followed by overwhelming media attention and personal pressure.

Coping with Burnout: Strategies and Reflections

Gabby discusses the mental toll of her athletic career and the strategies she employs to maintain balance:

• Meditation: A pre-race ritual introduced in college, helping her achieve focus and calmness.

  [53:21] Gabby Thomas: "The only pre-race ritual that I have is meditation."

• Time Management: Mentally blocking out free time to ensure rest and recovery, despite not relying heavily on physical calendars.

• Reframing Mindset: Viewing challenges as opportunities rather than sacrifices.

Gabby emphasizes the importance of resilience and self-compassion in overcoming setbacks and maintaining mental health.

[17:29] Gabby Thomas: "Chop wood, carry water... keep doing the things that got you to where you are."

Dealing with Online Harassment: Protecting Mental Well-being

Gabby addresses her experiences with online backlash, particularly relating to fan interactions and autograph requests. She differentiates between genuine fans and those who harass, advocating for setting healthy boundaries on social media.

[69:16] Gabby Thomas: "Nobody who is on your level or doing better will ever give you negative criticism like that."

Gabby encourages maintaining a healthy relationship with the internet by understanding that online negativity often stems from the individuals' own insecurities rather than her actions.

Founding Athlos: Pioneering a Women's Track League

In a bid to revolutionize women's track and field, Gabby co-founded Athlos, a new professional league aimed at providing regular competition and visibility for female athletes.

[70:23] Gabby Thomas: "Athlos will be that... it's a great opportunity for fans to know when and where we're competing."

Collaborating with fellow athletes Sha' Carri Richardson and Tara Davis, Athlos seeks to create a yearly platform for women’s track, reducing reliance on the quadrennial Olympic cycle.

Advice for Young Athletes: Embracing Individuality and Rest

Gabby offers valuable insights for aspiring athletes:

1. Avoid Comparisons: Focus on personal growth rather than measuring against others.

   [55:16] Gabby Thomas: "Comparison is a thief of joy... do your own thing and focus on your journey."

2. Prioritize Rest and Recovery: Integral to both physical performance and mental health.

   [55:16] Gabby Thomas: "Rest and recovery... it's non-negotiable."

Conclusion: A Role Model of Resilience and Humility

Reflecting on her journey, Gabby expresses pride in her ability to remain humble and serve as a positive role model. She acknowledges the multifaceted nature of her life, balancing athletics, academics, and personal growth.

[73:27] Gabby Thomas: "I'm really proud of how I've handled everything and how I treat people along the way."

Gabby's story is a testament to resilience, dedication, and the pursuit of balance—qualities that resonate deeply with listeners navigating their own life's challenges.

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Notable Quotes:

• Gabby Thomas [07:12]: "Track is a sport where you really get what you put into it."
• Gabby Thomas [12:21]: "It was really intense... I didn't realize I was signing up for a track program that competed and trained like every other D1 program."
• Gabby Thomas [30:33]: "I'm gonna put my head down and keep training really hard as if there's an Olympics."
• Gabby Thomas [53:25]: "Meditation... helps me be laser focused."
• Gabby Thomas [55:16]: "Comparison is a thief of joy... prioritize rest and recovery."

Takeaways

• Mental Health Matters: Balancing high-performance athletics with academic and personal life requires robust mental health strategies.
• Resilience is Key: Overcoming setbacks, whether health-related or emotional, is essential for sustained success.
• Advocacy for Women’s Sports: Initiatives like Athlos aim to provide consistent platforms for women athletes, enhancing visibility and opportunities.
• Community Support: Sharing experiences and seeking support can mitigate feelings of isolation and stress.

Listeners gain profound insights into the life of a professional athlete beyond the track, highlighting the universal struggles and triumphs related to mental health and personal growth.

Transcript

[Gabby Thomas]

The following podcast is a Dear Media Production. There was an entire investigation. I didn't understand how they had my information.

[Thomas]

Thomas says a group of strange men has been following her wherever she travels. Stalker. Like showing up at the airport.

[Gabby Thomas]

It happened a couple of times, actually. A number of times before I ended up posting about it. I was generally scared. I was flying home from Chicago, and I remember I had actually changed my flight the evening prior, and they were at the airport. And so I was thinking, okay, well, this must be a coincidence. I don't even know how I rationalize that in my head.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

The first time I signed a couple of them, when I stopped signing them because I had a flight to catch, you know, they got mad. And then it happened again. Same airport, didn't sign anything. They were very hostile and mad. But what was really strange about that instance, too, was, yeah, they had bought dummy tickets. Like, they bought dummy plane tickets so they could follow us into the boarding area. And then it happened again at the Miami airport. They had tickets. They were at the gate. If they're capable of figuring out when and where I'm flying on last minute notice, like, what else can they figure out? Even if you don't feel like you're in danger, it's just the fact that it's the entitlement that people feel like they can put you in that situation. So when I made a post about it, I was genuinely looking for answers. I was curious to know, like, does anyone know what's going on? How could this be happening? Someone working at the airline tipping them off. For people to just feel like they're entitled to that type of access. Just because they see you, like, on the Internet or on tv, it's just. It's really scary.

[Thomas]

Gabby, welcome to the Squeeze.

[Gabby Thomas]

Thank you. Happy to be here.

[Thomas]

I'm so excited. I feel like we've been trying to, like, get this nailed down.

[Gabby Thomas]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

For quite some time.

[Gabby Thomas]

Oh, yeah.

[Thomas]

But you're a busy girl.

[Gabby Thomas]

Yeah. It's been a busy year. Yeah.

[Thomas]

You're running around everywhere. No pun intended. I had to do it.

[Gabby Thomas]

How many.

[Thomas]

How many running fast puns, puns will I make this episode? We will find out. Okay, so we start each episode off with this jar. It's a game called Citrus Got Real. If you want to pull a little piece of paper out of there and read it to our lemon drops, our listeners.

[Gabby Thomas]

I'm scared. Okay. What would be the title of your autobiography? Oh, that's a tough question.

[Thomas]

Is this foreshadowing for you?

[Gabby Thomas]

Ooh, is it a Foreshadow. Let's see. What would be the title of your autobiography? I think. Well, off the bat, like, I think it would be something, like, stronger.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

Like, I think it definitely speaks to, like, what I do, which is fitness and sports, but also speaks to, like, resilience and just growing through different eras of life.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And coming back stronger. So that would be it. I actually am like, I'm a big autobiography nerd. Like, it's probably, like, the number one book genre.

[Thomas]

I feel like that's a big, like, athlete thing, is to read other people. Like, I feel like athletes get like, motivated from other people's.

[Gabby Thomas]

That lives actually might be it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Because I don't even, like, read fiction anymore. I'm just, like, obsessed with other people's stories.

[Thomas]

Is there one that's been your favorite that you've read?

[Gabby Thomas]

Okay. Best of All Time is Open Andre Agassi.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Gabby Thomas]

I. I think it's truly the best memoir. I mean, yeah, it's a memoir because he wrote it. I think, technically that. Whatever.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

But, yeah, no, it's incredible. Highly recommend. Oh, wow. I'm reading Kiki Palmer's right now.

[Thomas]

I'm obsessed.

[Gabby Thomas]

I know. I love Kiki. I love me.

[Thomas]

Her, like, favorite, like, her, like, funniest interview moments or compilations of, like, top five funniest moments or whatever it is.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

TikTok. All the time. I watched the same clip, like, I don't even know how many times of her, like, mimicking her mom or, like, just, like, reading, like, about, like, the time when she was, like. She's talking about, like, Twitter. Thought she was dead or something.

[Gabby Thomas]

Y' all killed me. It's so good. It's so.

[Thomas]

I'm so. That's, like. That's such a niche thing. I'm so.

[Gabby Thomas]

I'm so happy the gag is or. Oh, my God. Sorry. To this man.

[Thomas]

Yeah, she is.

[Gabby Thomas]

She's just so quotable.

[Thomas]

Yeah, she's good.

[Gabby Thomas]

Okay, well, great.

[Thomas]

Well, I need to read that one because she. I freaking love her.

[Gabby Thomas]

Oh, yeah.

[Thomas]

But I'm excited to, like, chat today because I feel like I started doing some research, but I honestly just wanted to, like, hear it from you because I feel like there's. You have so many, like, random. Maybe not random. They're not random because they're not random to you, but to someone who doesn't know you. Like, so many different facets of your life. Like, I. I just kept reading the things you've done and are doing, and I was like, this girl, like, has a boss Bitch. Like, I just feel like you have, like, so much going on, and it's like, oh, she also does this. Oh, there's also that. Like, I feel like the resume just kept going, so I'm excited to just, like, chat and dive into more than. You know.

[Unknown]

What?

[Thomas]

Most of us know you as our.

[Unknown]

Our gold medalist.

[Gabby Thomas]

Yay.

[Thomas]

It's. I. Oh, my gosh. I can't. I wish, like, I wish I could have been recording the Olympics. My husband is, like. My husband loves sports, but, like, when it's the Olympics, he is the most. It's like he's watching the Super Bowl. He's a big, like, football fan, so that is, like, his thing. And I just remember him, like, so screaming for you at the tv.

[Gabby Thomas]

Like, we, like, oh, my God. Watching you so happy was so surreal. Okay.

[Thomas]

I kind of want to just, like, start from the beginning of your life, but I really love to know you said Texas earlier. Is that where you're from?

[Gabby Thomas]

No, but I've been there for five or six years now, so it generally feels like home. It's, like, the only place I've lived, like, my adult life.

[Thomas]

Okay, so, yeah. Where are you from?

[Gabby Thomas]

Originally from Atlanta.

[Thomas]

Okay.

[Gabby Thomas]

Y. So born. Spent my childhood there, and then we moved to Western Massachusetts, which is super random.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Thomas]

When did running track start for you?

[Gabby Thomas]

So track really started for me when I was. I believe I was 12. I started in middle school because my mom just kind of forced me to do it. But I've always been into sports. Like, I. Just. From day one, since I was four or five, you know, playing soccer, basketball. And honestly, I did it all. Like, I did softball. I tried cheerleading. I tried gymnastics. I even did, like, horseback riding. Riding for a brief minute. Oh, wow. So I think, like, any time I wanted to try a sport, like, I just did. Yeah, my mom was super supportive of that. When it came to track and field, though, that was different. I. You know, I had this idea of track and field is just running, which, I mean, technically it is, but, like, to a kid, that sounds really boring.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

You know, and in our sport, you don't really have a professional, like, league to look up to. You see the Olympics? Yeah, all the time. But, like, I don't actually see what the sport is, so I didn't know. So anyway, she made me do it. First couple of years were a little questionable for me. I wasn't, like, in love with the sport. Like, soccer was still my first love, but I think, like, my junior year of high school is when I started to really oh, wow. Like, fall in love with it. I, you know, I started setting goals for myself. I started, you know, achieving some of them, continuing to work towards others, and I. I, like. I don't know, I just fell in love with the process of getting better.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And track is a sport where you really like, you. You get what you put into it.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And there's something, like, really beautiful about that. And I've just been running ever since.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

I feel like. Is that. Is that normal for someone to go into track that late or.

[Gabby Thomas]

I think so. Track and field's funny. So there are a lot of people who, like, specialize in it really early.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And I think, you know, the majority of the pros on the circuit that I race with now are like that.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

Um, but you also see a lot of burnout when people do that. So there are a ton of people. For every maybe, you know, one track athlete who started early, there are 10 that did with that person, but kind of burned out by the time they got to college because it's a very, very mental sport, which I'm sure we'll get into, like, later. But track is really intense. And then there are just a couple, like a small couple of us who got into it later.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And it is a little bit non conventional, you know, to.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

To start a sport so late and then.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

Compete at this level. But I think it's been kind of one of my advantages and almost a superpower to.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

To not have had that super early, intense start.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

You know, that's so interesting because.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

I feel like we've. We've had a lot of gymnasts on the podcast and I'm friends with some girls that have competed and that. It is like they were like, rolling out of the womb. Like, that is like, what they've been doing for so long. So I always wonder, like, with different, you know, divisions. I don't know what the word would be. Specialties.

[Unknown]

What.

[Thomas]

What that is like.

[Gabby Thomas]

Yeah, I mean, I think, like, the good thing about track is you don't have, like, a barrier to entry like that. So if you do start late, it's no big deal. Like, it's not like you missed out on a, you know, formative years of running.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

I did do other sports, so I had, like, that basic athleticism.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And basic, like, awareness of my. I do think that's really important.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

But as far as, you know, learning particular skills or having access to certain networks, you don't need that.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

This track and field is ultimately Pretty. It's pretty amateur. I mean, we talk about it all the time, like, in our track world, about how if you want to run, like, you can run if you wanted to, for example, like, sign up for Olympic trials for the LA 2028 Olympics, like, you absolutely could do it.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And then see if you make the team. So anyone can kind of jump in if they want to. It's really a matter of, like, how committed are you to training for that?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And it's like, it's so cutthroat that, like, you could commit all that time to training for it and then still like, miss the team by a hundredth of a second. So a lot of people just aren't really willing to do that.

[Thomas]

To do it.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

I have so many questions that are popping into my head right now, but I'm going to save it so that I can somewhat stay on track with.

[Gabby Thomas]

What I have backed up.

[Thomas]

On track. Oh, my gosh.

[Gabby Thomas]

Number two. That one was not on purpose. That one was not on purpose.

[Thomas]

I'm going to literally be so annoying. And the TikTok I'm making her do after this, too, she's just really. She's in for.

[Gabby Thomas]

That's one of my favorite parts about track, though, I think, is, like, unlimited puns. Like, there's always a way to, like, weave it into a conversation. It's.

[Thomas]

It's so good. Okay, wait, so I need to. I need to talk about Harvard, because I didn't know that. And I was like, oh, my gosh, she's literally Elwoods, but, like, super track star Elwoods. You went to college for neurobiology? Where. Where did that come from? Also, did you go to Harvard to run?

[Gabby Thomas]

Well, kind of, yeah. So neurobiology came because I just. I knew I wanted to do neuro from junior year of high school. My. I have two brothers who are neur. Neurodivergent.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Gabby Thomas]

One has autism, and then the other one has adhd. And I would watch them kind of navigate the world and kind of. And I saw just like the limited resources that were available for them and their learning styles and just how they. They move through society. It's particularly my autistic brother.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And so I think I really just wanted to go to school and do research and figure out how as society, you know, we can just make it a better place for those learning styles. And then I ultimately just fell in love with the major.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

I stuck with it. And at that time, my focus in life was academics. I come from a very academic background. Like my mom was a schoolteacher and then went back to school herself and became a professor, which is why we ended up moving to Massachusetts. So I had a deep appreciation for education and like what it could do for you and the opportunities that it could provide. For example, Harvard being one of them.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

That being said, Harvard did recruit me to run track too. Now they don't do athletic scholarships, so it's, you know, their financial aid, it's just need based. And then you go and you also do a sport, but it's kind of separate. You know, they don't really have these expectations of, you know, you know, doing whatever and maintaining your scholarship. So we didn't have that. But the intention was to run track at Harvard. But again, at the time, academics was kind of my main focus.

[Thomas]

That's interesting.

[Gabby Thomas]

And track was, it was fun for me. You know, I liked it and it was a good way to be around friends and kind of do something where I didn't have like an immense pressure, like these crazy expectations on me for sure.

[Thomas]

How did you balance that being a student athlete? Because I imagine even just having that degree in itself, like it's not a communication majors, but like that's, you know, that is a very like high level degree.

[Gabby Thomas]

Girl, there were a lot of days where I did not think I could do it.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

Honestly, my entire freshman year I was pretty set on quitting the track team. I was thinking, you know, something has to give at this point.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And it's going to be like my academic career and those endeavors or it's going to be my, my sports, my sports career. And then mind you, there's also all these extracurriculars that I wanted to do like social clubs or like.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

Just exploring like different interests, like women in business and things like that.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And there's no, like, you don't get like a blueprint for like how to navigate and balance these things. Especially when you're at an institution like Harvard and you're expected to compete at the D1 level. Yeah, I think when I, when I signed up for Harvard, I just didn't realize what I was signing up for.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

At the end of the day, I didn't realize I was signing up for a track program that competed and trained like every other D1 program.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

In my head I think I had something like intramurals in my head where I was like, oh, it'll be fun. We'll run around the track, you know, for a couple hours each day. But it was really, really intense. And then of course, like Stepping in the classroom with a bunch of really intelligent, like, you know, top 1% in the world.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

Was really difficult in its own way. And then doing a major, like neurobiology, where these are, like, the future best surgeons, like brain surgeons in the world, it was definitely intimidating. And then, you know, I also just had to work, work jobs while I was training and doing classes. So it was. It was a lot. But ultimately, what kept me grounded was, I think, understanding that I'm doing what I love. And the mindset just became, you know, this is an opportunity. And something my college coach used to tell me and talk to us about was reframing things. And so I. I didn't really think about going to the track, for example, as, like, a sacrifice that I was making, but more so like an opportunity. And, you know, nobody was making me study neurobiology. Right. And no one was making me run because, like I said, we didn't have scholarships. But it was really just a choice that I was making because I loved it, and I loved what I was studying, and I. I loved running. And so when you reframe it like that, and, you know, you wake up every day with that mindset instead. It helped a little bit.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

That being said, I mean, there were so many days where I was like, I don't think I can do this, but. Yeah. And also really, like, making time for free time.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And that's where I really learned how to do that. And I carry those lessons with me now. So it's like, just carving out, like, blocks of time, like, for myself.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

Or for, like, resetting with friends.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And I think that's just. Yeah.

[Thomas]

I mean, are you one of those people that, like, puts it into the calendar?

[Gabby Thomas]

Honestly, I'm one of those people who, like, I don't really believe in using a calendar. I don't. But it's. I do mentally, like, block it in.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

You're my husband. That's. That's him. I, like, need. I, like, brightened up into a calendar and needed help or needed all those things. But I love. I feel like finding. Being able to find that, like, setting aside that free time, because I will sometimes put it when I know I have a busy week or something, I'll put it in my calendar. Even just, like, a reminder to be like, hey, just, like, go sit outside in the sun for a minute. Like, just go have a minute to yourself. How. How was learning that? Like, did you get to a point where you were, like, breaking, and you were like, I need, like, to remember my free Time?

[Gabby Thomas]

Yeah, I mean, I think so. I. Because they tell you when you get to college. Right. Or when you go anywhere where you're doing a lot, they're like, oh, time management. Like, time management is key. But, like, you don't really know how to do that.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

You know, it's, like, easy in theory, but then you just find out that, like, you're running out of time, you have all these things to do.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And I remember my coach used to be like, okay, well, schedule, you know, 20 minutes here to get your homework done, and then go to class and then come to practice. And then suddenly your homework takes, like, an hour and 30 minutes instead of 20 minutes, and then your schedule falls apart, and then you start to freak out, and it's a whole thing. So I went through that for a while.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

Just kind of figuring it out. And, I mean, I just. I learned. I also learned that it's okay not to stay on the schedule, and it's okay to, like, have grace with yourself and be fluid.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And that might be even more important than the time management skills in itself.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

But, yeah, I mean, that's really it. Learning to adapt and adjust when you need to.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

That's probably, like, the biggest part of balancing everything and. And having that kind of mental schedule.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

It's just like, you know what? I didn't get it done today. That's really okay. Like, I'm gonna be okay. The sun will still rise tomorrow.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And it's fine. And just, you know, giving and pulling when you need to.

[Thomas]

Such a good. My husband's always like, are you gonna live?

[Gabby Thomas]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

Well, you. Will you survive to see tomorrow? I'm like, yes. He's like, okay, then it's fine. Like, it could wait or whatever it is. I'm like, yes. No, but it can't. He's like, but it can. It really can. This isn't life or death.

[Gabby Thomas]

That is so real. And I think, like, even going into Harvard, this is so weird to say. I feel like I was a very type A person. But, yeah. That experience, like, turned me into a type B person. Oh, wow. I feel like I had to totally, like, re. Shift.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

My brain.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And, like, redo all that circuitry. And now I'm like, I don't know. My publicist probably tell you. I'm like, very, very chill. Probably drives her crazy sometimes. But. Oh, my God. Like, I just.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I love it.

[Thomas]

It's good. I mean, it's a good. It's a good reminder.

[Unknown]

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[Thomas]

Or if our workouts will even, well, work us out.

[Unknown]

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[Thomas]

Not even a parent with a child that has to go back to school.

[Unknown]

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[Thomas]

Okay, so I'm just still Confused.

[Gabby Thomas]

When. When did.

[Thomas]

When did track actually start to become something that you're like, oh, okay, like I should pursue this, or I could, like, you know, go on to something.

[Gabby Thomas]

Bigger here, I think. So my junior year of college, I had an incredible race. I made the ncaa, you know, tournament for track and field. And I ended up running and winning the NCAA championship and breaking a collegiate record, which was very unexpected for me and something that is just not really heard of from Harvard. To be a sprinter and to be competing at that level.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And so that changed everything overnight. Like, immediately, I had a lot of attention on me immediately. I was expected to run really fast, but mainly I was exposed to this world of track and field that I was not aware of before. I think most people in track in college, like, had an understanding of the track world.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

Whereas, like, I didn't. I was this girl coming from Western Mass. I didn't really know anything about track and field. I wasn't, you know, these girls, girls who run, they ran, you know, Florida, California and Texas. And so after that day, I mean, I. I just knew it was different. I knew I had an opportunity to run professionally, which I had to learn what that was.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And I knew that I could make money running. And then I realized I had a shot to try to make a Team USA team.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

Which was crazy. It was. It was so bizarre. I mean, to have, like, so wild. Your life flip overnight, like, that is just so wild to me. And I'm just thinking back to that time now, and I'm just like, wow, I had no idea.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I know.

[Thomas]

I can't imagine, like, what that would feel like, even just to, you know, have your eyes open to that world, but also realizing, hey, this other passion that I do have is also, you know, there is an opportunity for more than just running for my college.

[Gabby Thomas]

Yeah. So even. Even with that realization that I had the opportunity to run professionally, I still wasn't, like, quite willing to give up on, like, the academic journey, too, I think, because that had been my entire life.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

So, yeah, I was still juggling both for a while. Even when I did end up running professionally, which I. I loved.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

You know, I still did, but. Yeah.

[Thomas]

What for our listeners that don't know, myself included, what does, like, running professionally mean? Like, what does that look like outside of the Olympics?

[Gabby Thomas]

Yeah. So outside of the Olymp, we are running every year, and if. If it's not an Olympic year, we have world championship years, and those are every other year. And so we're typically training for that. And we're always training for a major championship. When we're not at a major championship, we are typically running in a diamond league. And the diamond league is global, so they have meets. I think it's 12 meetings each year. Monaco, London, Doha, China. There's one in the usa, and it's in Oregon. So that's what we're doing. Or we're competing at small meets, like a USA Track and Field, or it's our nonprofit. They'll put on some meets in the US for us. Sometimes we'll run at college meets. But essentially, we're just setting ourselves up to train and compete at a major championship so that we can win medals for Team usa.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And then that's how we earn our money, because we get sponsorships based off of our performance at major championships.

[Thomas]

Got it. So, yeah, that makes sense. And I feel like I should have known that. Now hearing you say all of the things, I now understand them, because I heard of the World Championship thing, and I was like, I didn't know what that was. Exactly, girl.

[Gabby Thomas]

No, same. Because I would see people run at the Olympics, and they'd be like, oh, this is World championship from, you know, 20, whatever. And I'm like, oh, I don't know why I didn't think about that.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

But it wasn't until I. It wasn't until. So I went pro my junior year of college. I stayed at Harvard to train for my senior year, and then I moved to Texas. It wasn't until I moved to Texas to train and we were training for the World Championships that I knew that there was a World Championships that existed.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

Like, I just had never seen it, never watched it. No one in my circle had ever, like, spoken about it.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

Which I. I do want that to change for our sport. Right?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

But I had no idea.

[Unknown]

Wow.

[Thomas]

You're. You're saying that anyone could go and basically, like, try to qualify for the Olympics.

[Unknown]

What.

[Thomas]

What was that time period like for you?

[Gabby Thomas]

So that time period for me. Oh, that was wild. So, yeah, when I graduated, which was in 2019, I decided to give myself a shot and try out for the Olympic team, because, like I said, I mean, anyone can do it. And I was in a really good position to do that because I was already fit and running fast. So in order to do that, I knew I needed to be, like, in an environment where I could get better, because even though I was really fast and running professionally, I still. I would not say that I was at the level that I needed to be At. To make an Olympic team.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

So I moved to Texas and I joined a group called the Beeford Bailey Track Club, and they already had Olympians in the group. My coach was a three time Olympian herself. And so I felt like, okay, this is going to be a good environment for me to train and just see what I can do.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And I could also get my master's degree at the University of Texas, which was a big priority for me as well. So everything worked out. I was like, this is great. We're moving to Austin, like, gonna live out my dreams. It's amazing. And then, as everyone knows, Covid happened. So Covid happened pretty immediately after I moved. I moved in November, and then a couple months later, yeah, there were just no track meets to be had. So this was supposed to be the 2020 Olympics, and they had, you know, just decided that they were going to postpone the Olympics trials. Wasn't happening. All of these meets were canceled. And so at this point, you know, I'm thinking, I. I don't know where this track thing is going to take me. I do remember emailing my agent at the time and telling him that, I think this is it for me. We're just going to have to retire and I'm going to continue school and just go from there. Because at this point, you know, we were training as if there were Olympics, but there were no Olympics to train for. And so I was spending a lot of time and energy on the track without any certainty that, you know, I was gonna do something with it.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

So it was a really weird time.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

Yeah, it was. It's strange to be, you know, putting blood, sweat and tears onto the track in a workout and not knowing if you're ever going to compete or ever even make a team.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

Cause it almost like strips like, you know, like the motivation. Yeah, you have.

[Gabby Thomas]

Yeah, exactly.

[Thomas]

And it's like, why am I putting in all of this time and energy if I don't even know if there is going to be something?

[Gabby Thomas]

Exactly.

[Thomas]

So when, when did that mindset flip for you? Was it when they decided that there was going to be one?

[Gabby Thomas]

And I mean, I think my mindset generally was. This is one of my favorite mantras. It's chop wood, carry water. And so that means basically keep doing the things that got you to where you are, even after you found that success.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

Right. So I, I just was like, I'm going to put my head down and keep training really hard as if there's an Olympics. I'm going to keep training the way that I have been training for the last few years to get me to this point where I can run professionally, and I just did it. I think that's where discipline kind of ties in. And also, at the same time, I loved being on the track.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Gabby Thomas]

I keep coming back to that because. Yeah, that's kind of. You know, my grounding experience is, like, I love running, I love pushing myself, and I love being there, like, with my teammates. So thankfully, in 2021, everything was back to normal. Right. They. At least in track and field, you know, they. They put the competitions back on.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And there was an Olympic trials, and eventually in Olympics.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

I read in here that when, before the Tokyo Olympics, you were undergoing some.

[Unknown]

Scans for a hamstring injury.

[Gabby Thomas]

Yeah, girl.

[Thomas]

And then the doctors ended up finding a tumor on your liver.

[Gabby Thomas]

Mm, girl. That was a really stressful time period. So I did have a hamstring, like, a slight hamstring injury strain. And I got a routine, like, MRI for that. And in them, or mri, they found a mass on my liver that. Honestly, for me, like, I do. I read so many, like, health research papers. I remember thinking, it's probably fine. I think most people have masses in their bodies that they will never be aware of because they don't get MRIs as frequently as athletes do. But then I remember my doctor telling me, like, no, this looks bad. You should. You should go get, like, further. Further checked on. And I was like, oh, my God. This was maybe three weeks before our Olympic trials. And so I was so close. I was stressed. Yeah, I was really stressed out. And I remember telling myself, like, if I make it out of this okay, then I'm putting it all on the line, because I'm so grateful to be healthy and alive, and I'm living out my dream. I just remember, like, making that promise to myself and to God and. And thankfully, everything did end up being fine.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

It's something that. Actually, it happens very frequently for women who are on birth control, and I was on birth control for a very long time, and so I probably have one.

[Thomas]

You might.

[Gabby Thomas]

You might have one. I wouldn't recommend going. Getting imaging. I would not recommend it. Yeah. So. So grateful. But, yeah, it definitely shifted my mindset a bit. Right. It made me just really, truly so grateful to be able to. To. To run and do what I love.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

Well, I can't imagine, like, having, like, finding it, and you're like, oh, like, I'll be okay. And then they're like, no, actually, you need to take this test and Then you're starting to stress and you're like, probably like, how long, how long did it take for you to get after this, the actual testing for like the biopsy and stuff?

[Gabby Thomas]

That's another thing it took. The whole thing was such a long process and I. It was frustrating. And as someone in like the healthcare space, I was like, it should not be this hard.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

To. Especially someone like me where I have all the resources that I could ever imagine.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

You know, getting my master's in public health and having that network and also running for USA track and field and having that network of doctors. And I think the whole thing, I mean, it probably took six weeks, which is very long, from like my initial MRI to having the conversation with doctors and getting follow up imaging and then, yeah, biopsies and like all of that just took six weeks to get like a final answer.

[Thomas]

I didn't, I didn't think you were going to say six weeks. That's a lot longer than I thought you were going to say.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

Oh, wow.

[Gabby Thomas]

It all finished about maybe two weeks before I left for Oregon for trials.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Gabby Thomas]

But it had started way before that.

[Thomas]

Oh, my gosh.

[Gabby Thomas]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

That is insane.

[Gabby Thomas]

But that's why. Yeah. At first it was like, okay, it's fine. But then you have so much time to overthink it and.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

Like, okay, maybe it's not fine. And then it's taking so long and you're like, okay, well, why aren't. Why is no one talking to me? Why is no one calling me? Is something wrong?

[Unknown]

Like. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Thomas]

The spiraling that comes with that, I actually can't imagine.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

I'm sure that really lit a fire under you. Once you were, like, cleared and you were like, I'm just gonna give this. Give this my all.

[Gabby Thomas]

Exactly.

[Thomas]

I'm curious, after you've talked a little bit about feeling like a crash after the Tokyo Olympics, when you say crash, was that like a physical one or a mental one?

[Gabby Thomas]

Definitely mental.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Gabby Thomas]

Yeah, it was mental. Emotional, for sure.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

I think that it's fairly common amongst Olympic athletes. But Tokyo was my first Olympics. It was so much fun, like just getting to go there and I didn't have these crazy expectations for myself. I think I was just really happy to be there, you know, with it being my first one and not even expecting to make the team.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

But also when I made the team, when I said my life changed overnight, like when I went professional in track, I mean, that was nothing compared to after I made, like the Tokyo Olympic team. My life really, really changed. And then being there was so much fun. And then I did get my first Olympic medal, which was a bronze in the 200 and then a silver in the 4x1 relay. And I was just, I don't know, I felt like on top of the world. I was just so happy and ecstatic and I don't think I was prepared for just what came after that. I. In Tokyo, we also. Because it was Covid still.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

There was not a lot of media in the village or like at the competition. So, yeah, I was kind of in this happy little bubble. I was like competing at the Olympics, it was great. Not too much stress. And immediately when I got back to the States after the Olympics, it was. I mean, it was instant. I just felt so drained. It was, I think, a mix of being on such a high high for weeks of like making the team, going to Tokyo and being there and experiencing that to coming down. And so you're coming down from that huge peak emotionally and then suddenly everybody wants like a piece of you. Everybody wants your time.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And I was just not familiar with that world. I was essentially this nobody runner from Harvard. And suddenly I was, you know, you know, one of the best American sprinters.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

Coming back to the States. And so I just wasn't prepared for that. I didn't have an adequate team ready. There is no, like I said, there's like no blueprint or protocol of how we're supposed to handle that.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And so. Yeah, I just remember being so drained emotionally and mentally.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And like every morning I just would not want to like, wake up in the morning. I would like to be terrified to even pick up my phone because I didn't know like, what was on it. I just didn't know, like, if people were going to be like asking me for favors or.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

If like people wanted me to, you know, do something like media wise or, you know, just friends and family who obviously mean well, but like, everyone just wants to talk about the Olympics and.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

I didn't feel like, like Gabby anymore. I just, you know, I felt like, like literally Gabby Thomas, like this printer.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And so it was just a lot to get used to.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

I don't think people like realize even though everything you said is positive, like, it wasn't like there was anything negative, it's still that it's so overwhelming. And our bodies, like, aren't meant to digest all of that, especially like the influx. That's why we see so many, you know, actors or musicians, like, when they're on Stage, they're like, the highest high and then they crash. And it's like, that's why there are so many people in the industry that struggle with their mental health, is because our bodies are just constantly doing this and our brains can't, like, comprehend.

[Gabby Thomas]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

What that is or, like, how to deal with it. And so not being. You know, there's. There is no. Even if you are well equipped and have a team and have all of the stuff in place, it's still. You still feel the crash.

[Gabby Thomas]

So real.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

It's inevitable.

[Gabby Thomas]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

To feel, no matter, like, sport or singing or whatever it is, like, it's. It's all. It's all, like, fully there.

[Gabby Thomas]

And it's, like, hard to talk about. Right. Because like, you said, it was all, like, positives.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

Right. It's like, okay, no, this is a great blessing and I would not take it back.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

But then, like.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

You're like. Then I sound ungrateful.

[Gabby Thomas]

Right.

[Thomas]

It almost. It makes you feel like you're not supposed to, like, be struggling mentally.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

You feel guilty for.

[Gabby Thomas]

And then. Exactly. And then I feel guilty for not, like, enjoying the ride. I was like, I just came back from the Olympics, like, I should be so happy and, like, celebrating.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And I was like, oh, my God, I just don't want to.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

You know what got you out of that little rut? Did it take time?

[Gabby Thomas]

It did take time. I think I started to feel a little better and just kind of, like I said, I did the same thing with my mantra. Just chop would carry water. I just put one foot in front of the other.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And I just did the things that I was expected to do. I went to, like, the celebration events, and I did all the media interviews. I did all the sponsorship stuff, and I think it was just a lot of. For me to carry. It was just a really big load. And the next season, definitely. I mean, it showed. I just. I was really stressed out all the time. I think I just had too much going on, and then I ended up getting injured and not being able to compete that season.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And I. I just don't think that was a coincidence. I think it very much had to do with not taking care of my mental health first.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

Did you feel, like, pressure to. Because you had just come back from the Olympics and you won, like.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

To perform?

[Gabby Thomas]

Well, I did. I felt a lot of pressure to perform. Yeah. I mean, I felt pressure to do, like, everything during that time. I just. I don't know. I feel like I didn't know that you could say no to stuff. And I didn't know that I could take time to rest. Like, even on the track, I just feel like you're expected to go, go, go. And there's like a plan A for training, and there's a plan for competing, and there are certain times that you're supposed to hit. And I just. I didn't realize that it's okay to take a step back and take an off day if I need to, like, rest and recover. Take an off week if I need to. Right. It's not the end of the world, but there was definitely a lot of pressure. And in a sport like track and field where, like, you have to be perfect, because the difference between running, I think people don't realize this. Like, in my event, you know, maybe a really good time would be 22.1. Like, 22.1 seconds.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

But if you run 22.3 seconds, like, the whole world will just collapse. Like, everyone's like, what happened? And it's like, well, I don't know.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

Maybe I didn't dorsiflex my heel, like, the same way. Like, I don't know. But.

[Thomas]

So it's like, took one too many breaths.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

Like, that's how exactly.

[Gabby Thomas]

Or like, maybe your reaction time was a little off or something. Like, so you just have to be perfect. And when you're not perfect, feels like it's the end of the world sometimes, even though I know it's not.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

But. Yeah, so the stress was definitely there.

[Thomas]

Do you feel like you're love for the sport wavered at all after your first Olympics?

[Gabby Thomas]

I. I mean, I wouldn't say it wavered. I think. I think I needed a healthy break.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

To be honest, I still loved track and field, and I think that's evident because when I got hurt, I was heartbroken, and it was really devastating. And I wanted to be competing, and that's how I knew that I was still very invested and really loved it. But I. I think I really. I understood that I needed some time.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And I needed to, like, reframe, you know, take a second back and just.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

You know, this is where I am in life now. I just need to. To have a healthy balance.

[Unknown]

Yeah, for sure.

[Thomas]

How did you. Going into the 2024 Olympics, how did you mentally kind of prepare for that? And was there something that you were like, I want to go into this with this frame of mindset.

[Gabby Thomas]

Yeah. Okay. I do feel like I went into. I mean, going into your second Olympics, I. I just Felt so much more in control. I felt like a veteran. I had been competing for a couple of years now.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

Like I said, my first Olympics, I feel like I was thrown into the sport so quickly and just so naive and just like a girl who didn't know the world of track and field.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And for the Paris 2024 Olympics, like, I felt comfortable. I'd also grown into myself, like, not only as an athlete, but, like, as a businesswoman. And essentially, I. I see what I do on the track as, like, a business, and I'm running my own business. And so I had a great team around me, which I do. I feel like it's really important, like, having people who I feel like I can trust, who are understanding of me and who just help me navigate things, whether, you know, that's my agent, publicist, coach, physical therapists. Like, all of these people, like, matter so much. So definitely had that. And I think I was just, like, really, really motivated, too. When I look back on going into the Paris Olympics in that time period, I mean, it was like tunnel vision. It really was. It was. I wasn't even, like, worried as much, per se, about making mistakes or not being good enough. I was just, like, so dialed in and motivated. I was like, I need to do everything right. Like, I need to be perfect. I'm gonna train really hard. I'm gonna also rest when I need to. Like, I just. I feel like I had everything under control.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

Which, I don't know. I feel like I do really well when I feel like I have control of, like, situations.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And so I. Yeah, going into it, I definitely felt like I had more control.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

Which is funny if you're a type B person.

[Unknown]

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[E]

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[Thomas]

Can I make my site softer?

[Gabby Thomas]

Can I make my site firmer? Can we sleep cooler?

[E]

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[Unknown]

What?

[Gabby Thomas]

That's so true.

[Thomas]

What was that winning moment like for you?

[Gabby Thomas]

The winning moment.

[Thomas]

I'm sure you've been asked this question a thousand times.

[Gabby Thomas]

It was. Okay. Two things. It was incredible. It was like, I mean, the best moment in my life. I just. You can't even. It was unbelievable. Like, I almost felt like I was living in a dream. And then on the other hand, it felt like a huge relief, like I could just breathe again. And that was such a good feeling, too.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

Because I know how long and hard I had worked for that.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And I also. I understood how disappointed I would be if I didn't get the gold medal, which, I mean, I hate, like, thinking about it like that, but it's just the reality. So I was just, like, so relieved.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

I was like, all of this hard work, like, I did it, and, wow, that was it. Like, I. I did it. So it was just. It was great. I do remember, like, right before the line, like, right before the gun went off, I was like, in the blocks, and I remember, like, having this moment where I was like, if I win, I'm gonna be so stressed out. I'm like, my time's not gonna be my time anymore. I was, like, thinking back to the Tokyo Olympics where I was like, oh, my God, is it gonna be okay? Am I gonna be okay? And I remember having to just, like, brush that thought away so quickly because a gun was about to go off and just be like, oh, you just have to go and worry about that later. And so, yeah, I did. And then. Yeah, just relief.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

You mentioned earlier, and I wanted to wait until we were actually talking about track to bring it up. So I didn't get sidebar, but you mentioned, like, how mental of a sport track is. And, like, I never obviously, like, I never thought about it that way until you just said it. And then I feel like I was having, like, a little, like, epiphany moment of, like, I think the reason why I don't like running is because I'm, like, literally, like, alone in my thoughts. And, like, it's not like you're learning new tricks yeah. Even though, even though you are running faster and I'm sure like, you know, there is little nuances of what you said, your door of things that I have no freaking clue of. But it's so minute is what I'm trying to say is you're running and nothing is, nothing is changing besides like the minuscule things that you know, when you know you're a gymnast or whatever it is, you're learning all of these new things and you're actually like seeing the progress of a full whatever it is. And I can't imagine how, you know, trying to make your toe flex while you're like full on sprint. Like how mental that actually is.

[Gabby Thomas]

I mean, it is just so incredibly mental for so many reasons. And like you said, I mean the main one being the difference between winning and getting last. Right. Could be the difference of like a thousandth of a second.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

You know, and like the hundred meter race in the 210th of a second.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

So so much goes into that. And maybe you are physically perfect on that day, but mentally you're just not, you're not enough on that day. Or maybe like you're in your luteal phase and then you have to work like a thousand times harder that one day just to not run a tenth of a second slower. So when I go into, I mean, you have to play so many like mental tricks on yourself and you have to get yourself into that zone where you have that like extra 1% that you need to win the race. And it also goes with training. Like training can be. I mean, like you said you don't like running.

[Unknown]

No.

[Gabby Thomas]

Yeah, I don't blame you, but I.

[Thomas]

Would prefer to sprint over a like long distance.

[Gabby Thomas]

That's what I tell people.

[Thomas]

I'm like, I did prefer I dance, I danced in my old my whole life. But when we would do like hell week and have to run. Yeah, I was always the fastest sprinter, but I was the last one in the mile.

[Gabby Thomas]

So it was sprinting spine. You win some, you lose some. Sprinting is fine. I don't like long distance running either. I. My mile time is not, not good. But yeah. So even the training of it, like the meet is just such a small part of what we do. But we're training every day for hours. And so you have to mentally be prepared to train at that level too.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

Like your training can't, you know, be subpar and then you expect to compete well.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

So it's also getting yourself ready and in that mode mentally and also in our Sport. It just naturally comes with so many setbacks.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

We are constantly, like, pushing ourselves to our limits, like, physically. And so naturally things are going to happen. Like, you're going to feel pain, you're going to have a bad day, and how can you bounce back from that? And that's, that's really, really hard to do in an individual sport.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

Where you don't have, like, teammates to help pull you up or to cover for you if you have a bad play. It's just you out there. And so if you can just kind of figure out how to be resilient in a way that gets you medals. That's, that's really the name of the game.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

There's so much talent out there and everyone at this level is so talented. So it becomes, you know, who, who can figure out the mental game.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

You know, do you have, like, pre race, like, rituals or like routines that you do to get you in the mindset?

[Gabby Thomas]

I think like, the only pre race ritual that I have is meditation.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Gabby Thomas]

I started that in college and my college coach was a big advocate for it, which I'm so grateful for. It's just, it's so grounding and it has actual neurological effects that I do believe, like, help. So before I do it in training, too, if I have a hard training day, I'll just like incorporate it into my warmup or I do two minutes of meditation, focusing on breath, work and nothing else. And I do it in competition, too.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And it, it really calms your nervous system down, but it also gets me in a place where I can be laser focused.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And doing it over time, obviously you see more benefits, but other than that, I don't take it too seriously. I think that's just how I cope and how I deal with really high pressure meets or competitions. I'm just like, nope, it's just another regular day. If something different happens, that's really fine. If something unexpected happens, that's fine. I'm just gonna go race.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

Trying to give yourself, like, grace.

[Gabby Thomas]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

Like during that.

[Gabby Thomas]

No, exactly.

[Thomas]

It's so. I, like, I'm, I'm not going to bore our listeners with all of my thousands of questions because I'm really like, how do you, how do you. The, the thing that gets me with track is what you said is it's literally like a thousandth of a second. And like there's sometimes I'm watching, I'm like, oh, why, why, why did they run so slow? And it's literally a second and I'm like sitting on my couch, like eating.

[Gabby Thomas]

A bag of chips, like, who am I to freaking say this thing?

[Thomas]

But you don't realize.

[Gabby Thomas]

But it's also like you don't realize how good everyone.

[Thomas]

And you're all so fast. So then when someone is, you know, a half a second behind, it looks like.

[Gabby Thomas]

It looks so much slower, but they're literally not. Oh, it's so. It's so. I'm. I'm horrible. It's so.

[Thomas]

It's so bad. I'd love to know, like, any advice you have for young athletes that you know may be experiencing burnout or just kind of feel stuck mentally with where they're at.

[Gabby Thomas]

Yeah, I mean, I would say a couple things. One is really important. I think comparison is a thief of joy. Everyone has heard that. But it's so true. You cannot compare your journey to anyone else's. And genuinely, everything happens for a reason. And you can always overcome something. And it may have been a blessing in disguise. I think a big part of why I had so much success early in my track career was because I wasn't comparing to anyone and I just was doing my own thing and focusing on what I wanted to focus on. And it was just my journey. And I go back to that now. Even when I think about things I'm struggling with now or a setback, I'm like, you know what, it's your journey. Do your thing. Don't compare to what anyone else is doing. And it's all good. And then another one would be to really prioritize rest and recovery, physically and mentally and emotionally. It's non negotiable. It's actually a part of my training. And rest could be so many different things. It could be getting dinner with your friends or it could be, you know, contrast, cold plunge, sauna, whatever you want it to be, but whatever makes you feel, you know, just reset and.

[Thomas]

Yeah, yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

Recharged for sure.

[Thomas]

I love that. And I feel like that's honestly, like applicable for anyone experiencing any form of burnout.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

In life, whatever career you may have.

[Gabby Thomas]

Right.

[Thomas]

It's so important to remember that.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

I mean, there are so many synergies with like sports and trucks specifically and just life.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

So.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

Okay. I have really been wanting to talk to you about something that we. I think the whole reason we started DMing was because you shared about an incident, recurring, potentially thing that was happening with you at just the airport. I want you to.

[Gabby Thomas]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

I've been wanting to hear about this because I remember you posted something on your story or your close friends or was like, has anyone ever.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

Dealt with, you know, people like, yeah, stalker. Like, showing up at the airport and when you had posted it. I feel like not long before that, something similar happened to my husband and I. We were traveling, and it was the first time and it had ever happened to me. Obviously, it wasn't for me. It was for him. But with him, he's obviously had. Has experienced this back in the day a lot. But we were deplaning, and someone had bought, you know, plane tickets to be inside of the airport. And we're at the terminal and, you know, I'm with him. I'm with a male. And they're not asking for my autograph, they're asking for his. But I was still so freaked out, and so I was so on edge. I like. I think I, like, cried in the car. And he was like, it's okay. Like, because it's something that's happened to him before. And he's like, you know, they're not. They're not. They're not stalking me in this. In this scenario. He's like, they're not following me. They're just wanting my autograph. But they're going about it in a way that is unsafe.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

And is very uncomfortable. And so I. Since then, we no longer. I'd, like, do the, like, VIP service every time we fly into that airport now. Because I'm, like, paranoid it's gonna happen. And even though, like, he did make me feel better after, because I was like, you know, what if they're following the car and I just, like, spiral and all these things. And when you shared about that, I was like, I can't imagine going through that by myself. And as a female.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

So I'd love to hear that.

[Gabby Thomas]

I mean, isn't that it's so sad that anyone just even has to feel that way or like.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

Even if you don't feel like you're in danger, it's just the fact that it's the entitlement that people feel like they can put you in that situation, and then for whatever reason, you have to rationalize that it's okay or that you're safe. I just don't even appreciate that.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

But furthermore, like, making anyone feel just uncomfortable, unsafe, anxious.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

It's so wrong. But, yeah, ultimately, I mean, it happened a couple of times. Actually, a number of times before I ended up posting about it. I can't even remember the first time. I think I was flying home from Chicago from, like, family holiday.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And I remember I had actually changed my flight the evening prior, and they were at the airport. And so I was thinking, okay, well, this must be a coincidence. Like, somehow, some way. I don't even know how I rationalize that in my head.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

But I was like, it must be a coincidence because I had just changed my flight.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

You know, fine. At first, the first time I signed a couple of them, and when I stopped signing them because I had a flight to catch, you know, they got mad. Okay. Eye roll. Like, moving on.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And then it happened again. Same airport, didn't sign anything. They were very hostile and mad. Whatever. But what was really strange about that instance too was. Yeah. They had bought dummy tickets. Like, they bought dummy plane tickets so they could follow us into the boarding area.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And they were waiting for me at my gate. And then it happened again at the Miami airport where they were just in the. In the boarding area, you know, past security. They had tickets, they were at the gate. And at this point, it was just. It was. I felt so much confusion and I was generally scared because I didn't understand how they had my information.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

I didn't understand. Yeah. Like, what was going on. Like, I did not feel like my life was in immediate danger. You know, obviously I felt like, physically, okay. But if they're capable of figuring out when and where I'm flying on last minute notice and having this access to me, like, what else can they figure out? And, like, how are they doing this? And I. I just got to a point where I was walking to airports and I felt anxious.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

You know, and I. I just felt anxiety when I was traveling and I just did not feel like I deserved that.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

So when I made a post about it, I was genuinely looking for answers. I was curious to know, like, does anyone know what's going on? How could this be happening? Like, is someone working at the airline tipping them off?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

Because I don't post anything about, like, when I'm traveling until I get there. So I wasn't sure. And I mean, it happened to other people too. Like, a few other female public figures had mentioned it and reached out to me about it too. And I thought, okay, well, it's good to know that I'm not, like, alone. Like, they're not targeting me for, like, you know, some type of weird harassment. But I do feel like that's a huge issue. I mean, for people to. You just feel like they're entitled to that type of access just because they see you, like, on the Internet or on tv, it's just, it's really scary.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And you just, you never know what people are capable of at the end of the day. Like, I don't know them. So I'd love to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but if you're the type of person to, you know, cross those boundaries and buy a dummy flight ticket and harass me when, you know, I would feel uncomfortable, I don't know what else you're capable of doing. So it was really frustrating the entire thing.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

So, yeah, we've since. Yeah. Taken measures to not have to deal with that. And I do the vip and honestly, since posting about it and speaking out, they have left me alone and I do think they needed to be scared. It was an entire investigation and I think they got spooked and I think that's. I'm just really glad that I did speak out about it and it was received so well. Like.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

Amongst the online community and that other people, like, were supportive of that because. Yeah. I have not seen them.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

But the next time I, If I see them again, I. I know, I know.

[Thomas]

I feel like people, I. I feel like I have this conversation a lot when people are, you know, feel like they need to take the photo, feel like they need to sign the autograph. And I feel like it's one thing when it's a genuine fan that, you know, someone comes, comes up to me.

[Unknown]

Hey, I love the podcast.

[Thomas]

Can we take a photo? Of course, totally. If I'm, you know, in the right mindset. But if someone is coming up to me with a clear, flimsy piece of plastic and a blue marker. I know you, blue marker. So they can frickin copy it and put it on the things and know, like, that's like you're wanting to make money off of like harassing me.

[Gabby Thomas]

Exactly. And I think now that you mentioned that, I'm like, I don't even know why I gave them the benefit of the doubt to begin with because they had like pictures of my face all printed out. So. Yeah, to your point, it's not like an innocent fan who's excited to see you. It's like someone targeting you.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

So it's just like an interesting. And then like a video will go online and be like, they're so rude.

[Unknown]

They didn't sign this.

[Thomas]

It's like, well, yeah, like, if you're being harassed somewhere, I wouldn't like want to sign it either. Like, I feel like the Internet and people who aren't in positions like yours and my husband need to Give people that are in those positions a lot more grace. Because, like, your flight could have been canceled and you could have, you know, you could be having a horrible day and someone comes up to you and you're like, no, actually, like, I'm, like, dealing with something right now that needs to be okay. Like, yeah, we're not going up to random strangers asking them for favors for things. And I feel like you like, sharing. This is a good reminder.

[Gabby Thomas]

Like, girl, yes. I mean, I got a whole thing, like, I was at a track meet, like, a couple of months ago where I. I mean, I had spent, like, 30 minutes signing autographs and, you know, taking selfies with a lot of the fans who show up, because we love the fans and, like, they make what I do possible. But then I had to go cool down.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And I just. One person, I guess, didn't get a picture and just went on social media and was like, oh, she's the worst. She doesn't, like, make time for fans. And I'm just like, oh, my gosh, it's so unfair.

[Thomas]

Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's a very. It's a very, like, interesting space that I feel like we're. Now that more public figures are starting to, like, share about. But then it also, like, adds this pressure. Like, my husband never says no. Like, even, like, that's just always how he's been. But granted, he has been dealing with it for a very long time, so.

[Unknown]

I think he's so sweet, though.

[Thomas]

Trained his mind in a certain way. He knows when he's leaving the house that.

[Unknown]

That.

[Thomas]

That could happen. So he's prepared.

[Gabby Thomas]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

When, like, the night we got engaged, we, like, he proposed and then we went to dinner and we had four people come up to our table after, like, right after we got. And get, like, not knowing that that had happened. And we're there just having dinner. Like, I just got engaged. I'm so happy.

[Unknown]

And people keep coming up, and I'm.

[Thomas]

Like, honey, like, you can say no. It's okay. And he was like, do you want me to say no? And then. Then I'm like, well, yeah, the last girl, she's really cute. And, like, she was a sweet little girl who wasn't like.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Thomas]

So it's just. It's just like a such an interesting thing that you don't, like, realize until you're in it. And here I am just getting a ring on my finger and going to dinner and having all these people come up. It's like such an interesting.

[Gabby Thomas]

It is. It's Interesting because, like, you said, like, you see where they're coming from. It's like, oh, you just. You love this person and, like, you want that moment. And then, you know, it's like, you don't. Not every day that you get to see someone that you look up to and walk by them in person. But then on the other hand, it's like, oh, yeah, we're humans and sometimes you just got engaged or sometimes you had a really, really rough day and you're not in a good mental space to give someone your best. And, yeah, it's definitely tough. It's a tricky thing to navigate, but I think you said it best. Just everyone giving each other grace is so important.

[Thomas]

Do you deal with online backlash or pressures at all? Girl, you're like, we need a part two.

[Gabby Thomas]

Yeah, I know. We did a whole part two about. I mean, online as you know, it's just. Especially now, I feel like it's just taken a whole new.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

Reality. Like, especially with Tick tock now, too.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

I think tick tock. I am genuinely scared for, like, the future of social media and people's interactions. I think the way people interact and how online discourse is on TikTok is so frightening to me.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

Like, where's. What happened to compassion? Like, what happened to nuance? Like, what happened to. Yeah, just not being mean. I. It is. It's wild. So, yes, I do deal with online backlash, obviously. I think starting from Tokyo Olympics was my first experience with it. Yeah, it was like kind of the first Olympics where, you know, people had so much access to athletes because social media had taken off so much since the previous Olympics. And so we were kind of getting used to that. And I have, you know, I've developed thick skin about it. Of course, you see it all the time. And in a sport like mine where we're very individual, like, attacks on our performance feel really personal because it's like.

[Thomas]

There'S no one else.

[Gabby Thomas]

Yeah, there's no doubt. This is me. I'm like, what? Like, that. That really hurt my feelings a little bit because, you know, we put so much into it. Right. We trained so hard and put, like, literal physical and emotional and mental energy into it. And so when you're doing your best and someone's just like, oh, you suck. You're like, well, you could have ran faster. That hurts. And I'm also like, what I was saying to you before, anyone can do it. So I'm kind of like, we're not in a sport where you're like, you're drafted or, like, selected subjectively. I'm like, okay, well, if that wasn't fast enough, like, you get off the couch and you do it. You train and then come do it and race me. We'll see what happens. But no, I mean, I just see it as part of it now. And I've. I think I have a healthy relationship with the Internet.

[Thomas]

I was gonna ask, like, what. What are, like, your boundaries with it now?

[Gabby Thomas]

Yeah. I think it. I mean, it's so hard, too, because I like social media and. Right. Like, I love being on the Internet. I love Twitter. I love Twitter jokes. I love memes. I love tick tocks. And so it's like, you don't want to take that away.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And then I also. I like running. Like, I like running at the top level, so I don't want to stop doing that because of how much attention it gets. So it's like, yeah, all right, well, the only choice now is just to deal with reality, and that is some people are going to be online and they're going to be mean and nasty, and it has no. Has nothing to do with me.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And one thing that I think is really important to remember, that I tell, like, a lot of, like, my younger teammates to remember, too, is that, like, nobody who is on your level or doing better will ever, like, give you negative criticism like that.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

On the Internet. Right. Like, if anyone is happy with themselves in their life and they're doing something good and positive, like, they're not going to go on the Internet and start, like, bashing people for their efforts.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

Like, you don't see someone working hard and being like, oh, yeah, no happy.

[Thomas]

Person is, like, leaving.

[Gabby Thomas]

Right.

[Thomas]

Comments like that.

[Gabby Thomas]

Right. Like, you just wouldn't do it. And I thought about that and I'm like, you know what? That's so true. The only people who do that are people who kind of like, they have you on a pedestal and they just feel like they can do that.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

So I think that's really important to remember.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I love that.

[Thomas]

I want to talk a little bit about. You're a co founder for a new women's track league, I hear. Tell me about it.

[Gabby Thomas]

So Athlos is really exciting. So like I said before, like, track and field is just an interesting sport where we, like, we rely on these major championships, but a lot of people don't know how and when to watch us. So having a new league where people are competing and fans know when and where we're competing and it will be broadcasted is such a Great opportunity.

[Unknown]

Wow.

[Gabby Thomas]

I also think we are in such a great era for, like, women's sports. Like, it's getting a lot of attention right now, and so we are jumping on that. Track and field is a great product, like every four years. People love it at the Olympics.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And so why can't they love it every year?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

So Athos will be that. Yeah. Right. Like, it's a great opportunity and the vision's there. It's all there. But we just. Just need to make it happen.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

So Athos will be that. I am co founding it with sha' Carri Richardson and Tara Davis, who are other amazing athletes in track and field. And so it's just, we're so excited. It's going to be a team based format. So it's going to be kind of this new, exciting way to watch track and field and follow it.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

We have our inaugural. We're like, we had our inaugural event last October.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Gabby Thomas]

We're doing one more meet this October in New York City on October 10th. And then next season in 2026, like, the league will start.

[Unknown]

Oh, cool.

[Gabby Thomas]

So it'll be really great to follow. Wow. Yeah. So you can get tickets for Athlos this year online now. Okay. And then just follow along for. For next season. Sweet. But I'm really excited.

[Thomas]

I'll leave a link down below for our lemon drops to go check it out. That's so cool.

[Gabby Thomas]

Coming into the sport was really weird for me because I was like you. I didn't understand what track was. I didn't understand where people were running, when, how. And I just, I want to leave the sport, like, better than I found it. So I want young girls when they're going into track and field to have something to look forward to.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

You know, like, I feel like young boys always, like, they're always like, oh, I want to be in the NBA or like, I want to play in the NFL. And they have these dreams because it's there and available for them.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And track just doesn't have that.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

And track is so special because there is such low barrier to entry. So anyone can just train and work hard and do it.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

But then what? And I want there to be something there.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

So that's why it's really special.

[Thomas]

That's so special.

[Gabby Thomas]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Congrats.

[Gabby Thomas]

Thank you.

[Thomas]

That's so exciting. Okay, last question before we do our little end segment. You have truly just accomplished so much in your career. Both careers. We honestly didn't even dive into that because I got so sidetracked Talking about all track questions. Sidetracked. You had one earlier, and I.

[Unknown]

You were.

[Thomas]

You were saying something, like, deep, and I was like, I'm not gonna cut her off.

[Gabby Thomas]

I was like, don't say it. Don't say it.

[Thomas]

I can't remember what it was.

[Gabby Thomas]

I'm sure. I'm sure. Hilarious.

[Thomas]

I'm sure people know what it was.

[Gabby Thomas]

I can't remember.

[Thomas]

But you really have. There's just so many facets of your life, and out of all of those and everything you've accomplished, I really want to know, like, what are you most proud of yourself for?

[Gabby Thomas]

Ooh, that is a really good question. Oh, my gosh. I mean, I would say definitely how I carry myself throughout this journey and remaining humble and making sure that I am, like, being a good person on top of being a good athlete.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Gabby Thomas]

Is so important to me, and I'm actually really proud of how I've handled it kind of everything and how I treat people along the way. And. Yeah. I mean, I think being a positive role model for the younger generation and for people who do look at what I'm doing. Yeah, I'm really proud of that because I. As I say that I'm reminded of, like, people like Allison Felix and Sonia Richards Ross, who I looked at when I was younger, and I didn't follow the sport very closely, but I did see how they held themselves and how they competed. And inevitably, I do feel like I modeled myself off of that, and I felt so inspired. And if I can even be like that, even a little bit for someone else, I mean, that is something really to be proud of. So definitely that's an answer.

[Thomas]

And it's true, too. I. I see it. I see it. I believe it. Well, thanks for coming and chatting with me. Love that we finally get to, like, sit and chat. And I think what you said, like, you. You truly, like, embody such an amazing role model, too. I feel not only kids, but also, like, someone like me and people, you know, of older generations. Just what you've accomplished and all of the different facets of what you've accomplished and the fact that at the end of the day, you're still, like, so kind and care about people is really special. So thanks for having me.

[Gabby Thomas]

This is so fun. Thanks for having me. Please note that this episode may contain.

[Unknown]

Paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services.

[Gabby Thomas]

Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.