Julia Michaels: Second Self

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Squeeze – Episode Featuring Julia Michaels: "Second Self"

Podcast Information

• Title: The Squeeze
• Host/Author: Taylor Lautner (not the actor; co-hosted with her husband, Taylor Lautner)
• Episode: Julia Michaels: Second Self
• Release Date: July 2, 2025

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Introduction

In this emotionally resonant episode of The Squeeze, host Taylor Lautner sits down with acclaimed singer-songwriter Julia Michaels to delve deep into Julia’s personal journey with mental health, her rise in the music industry, and her latest project, the "Second Self" EP. The conversation offers listeners an intimate look at Julia’s struggles with anxiety, her relationship with Taylor Lautner, and her evolution as an independent artist.

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Early Struggles and Mental Health [00:01 – 13:22]

Julia Michaels opens up about her introduction to mental health challenges at the age of 18, coinciding with her first publishing deal. The sudden pressure to perform and the demanding schedule without adequate support led to severe anxiety and panic attacks.

• Notable Quote:
  • "I signed my first publishing deal at 18, and it became very real. Had this pressure to perform. Yeah, that just ate me up." ([00:37])

As Julia achieved remarkable success with chart-topping songs like Selena Gomez's "Good for You" and Justin Bieber's "Sorry," her anxiety intensified, leading to fear of live performances and public expectations.

• Notable Quote:
  • "I had this fear that I was gonna walk into a room and people were gonna expect me to, like, spit gold." ([20:56])

Julia candidly discusses her journey through therapy and coping strategies, emphasizing the importance of self-acceptance and understanding that mental health struggles can persist despite external success.

• Notable Quote:
  • "I still have PTSD anxiety responses from success, and that's something I've really been trying to work on in therapy as a 31-year-old woman." ([20:57])

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Relationship with Taylor Lautner [03:58 – 32:42]

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on Julia's relationship with her husband, Taylor Lautner. They share how they met, their engagement story, and the unique bond they share, including having the same birthday.

• Notable Quote:
  • "I slid into his DMs... when I saw he was gonna be in New York, I DM'd him and we just started talking. We've been together ever since." ([04:08])

Julia describes Taylor as her rock, especially during her anxiety episodes. Their mutual support system, understanding, and shared experiences create a safe space for both to navigate their mental health challenges.

• Notable Quote:
  • "He's so understanding. Thank God. He's not really jealous. Love him so much." ([10:34])

The couple discusses setting boundaries, the importance of open communication, and how Taylor aids Julia in managing her anxiety through simple yet effective actions like taking baths or spending quality time together.

• Notable Quote:
  • "If I'm really stressed, he knows that we could be on the couch and he could put his pinky toe on me, and I feel loved." ([31:20])

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Navigating Fame and Mental Health [38:20 – 41:50]

Julia addresses the common misconception that success and fame preclude mental health struggles. She challenges the notion that achieving milestones like number one hits should automatically equate to happiness.

• Notable Quote:
  • "Everyone struggles with mental health. Fame just brings on a weird level of mental health struggles that people don't see." ([40:47])

Discussing public perceptions and online bullying, Julia emphasizes the importance of self-validation and not allowing external opinions to dictate her self-worth.

• Notable Quote:
  • "You have to validate yourself. You don't have to let others define your emotions based on your success." ([39:34])

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Songwriting Journey and "Second Self" Project [42:03 – 74:15]

Julia shares her passion for songwriting, tracing her journey from a young enthusiast to a celebrated songwriter. She recounts how her first success came at 17 when her song was chosen as the theme for a Disney show, propelling her into the industry.

• Notable Quote:
  • "I started writing songs because I loved it, not knowing it could be a career. At 17, my song got picked for a Disney show, and everything changed." ([43:12])

Transitioning to her latest project, "Second Self," Julia discusses her decision to become an independent artist, granting her full creative control. This move allows her to express the multifaceted aspects of her personality beyond the emotional and vulnerable persona established by previous hits.

• Notable Quote:
  • "Second Self is like my second chance to bet on myself, to show that I am goofy, silly, and flirty as much as I am emotional and vulnerable." ([68:08])

She highlights the challenges of leaving a major label, the liberation of owning her music, and the unwavering support from her fans who have stood by her through her independent journey.

• Notable Quote:
  • "Owning my music means having full creative control, allowing me to realize my vision without the constraints of a major label." ([71:33])

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Personal Growth and Setting Boundaries [74:16 – 81:35]

In the final segment, Julia reflects on her personal growth, emphasizing the importance of therapy, breaking toxic cycles, and setting healthy boundaries in her relationships. She expresses pride in overcoming adversity and maintaining her authenticity both personally and professionally.

• Notable Quote:
  • "I'm proud of myself for breaking cycles of toxicity and actively working on who I am. Therapy has been a crucial part of my journey." ([78:47])

Julia advises her younger self that the experiences and challenges she faced were essential in shaping her into the resilient and successful individual she is today.

• Notable Quote:
  • "The good and the bad things I've gone through have made me who I am now. My 20-year-old self couldn't have imagined this growth." ([76:55])

She concludes by celebrating her ability to maintain genuine relationships and respect her boundaries, reinforcing the episode's central theme of self-acceptance and mental well-being.

• Notable Quote:
  • "I'm proud of finding someone who respects and supports me, and for never settling for less in my personal life." ([80:07])

---

Conclusion

This episode of The Squeeze offers a profound and heartfelt exploration of Julia Michaels' life beyond her public persona. Listeners gain valuable insights into managing mental health amidst professional success, the significance of supportive relationships, and the empowerment that comes from artistic independence. Julia's candidness and vulnerability provide both comfort and inspiration, reinforcing the podcast's mission to foster conversations around mental wellness.

Key Takeaways:

• Mental health struggles can persist regardless of external success.
• Supportive relationships are crucial in managing anxiety and fostering self-acceptance.
• Independence in creative endeavors allows for authentic self-expression.
• Personal growth involves setting boundaries and breaking toxic patterns.

Notable Quotes for Reflection:

• "Everyone struggles with mental health. Fame just brings on a weird level of mental health struggles that people don't see." ([40:47])
• "Second Self is like my second chance to bet on myself." ([68:08])
• "I'm proud of myself for breaking cycles of toxicity and actively working on who I am." ([78:47])

---

About the Hosts

The Squeeze is dedicated to unpacking mental health and well-being through open conversations. Hosted by Taylor Lautner and her husband, the podcast features insights from celebrities and experts, offering listeners coping strategies and the reassurance that they are not alone in their struggles.

Transcript

[Julia]

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. I'm jealous. It started when I was, like, 18. I just signed my first publishing deal. I had always written songs because I just loved writing songs, hum things, write poetry, and then I would turn them into songs. You know, I didn't even know that that was a job. Turned 18 and I signed that deal. It became very real. Had this pressure to perform. Yeah, that just ate me up. I had just a publisher that was, like, working me dry.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

I would be in, like, three sessions a day, just be exhausted, like, running off of, like, coffee and barely any food. One day, I just had, like, one of the scariest, like, panic attack that I have ever. I was in one of my friend's kitchens. We were writing songs, and I just felt my heart go crazy. Dropped to the floor, couldn't catch my breath, didn't know what it was. Thought I was dying. My anxiety turned to panic attacks when I was, like, 21. Good for you by Selena had come out and gone number one. And then Sorry for Justin had gone number one and then Hansed Myself had gone number one. And it was, like, almost back to back to back. Like, real success as a songwriter. This fear that I was gonna walk into a room and people were gonna, like, expect me to, like, shit gold.

[Unknown]

Julia. Welcome to the Squeeze.

[Julia]

Thanks for having me.

[Unknown]

I am so excited to have you because not in chronological order is one of my favorite albums.

[Julia]

Thank you. That's so nice.

[Unknown]

Like, you're. I just love, like, your songwriting and you as an artist and your voice. So this is, like, really exciting.

[Julia]

Thank you. I'm happy to be here. Talk about our feelings.

[Unknown]

Oh, my gosh.

[Julia]

The best.

[Unknown]

Okay, so we start off with a little game. This jar is. It's called Citrus Got Real.

[Julia]

Okay.

[Unknown]

You want to pull a little piece of paper out of there.

[Julia]

Okay.

[Unknown]

And read the question.

[Julia]

Okay. Let's see. Which holiday would you celebrate once a month if you could? I think it would be, like, Thanksgiving for me. One Love food. Love me some food. But I also. So I always throw, like, a massive Thanksgiving in my backyard every year for all my friends that don't have a lot of family here, and I don't have family here, so it's really nice to just be surrounded by, like, all my chosen family. And we have, like, 40 people in the backyard, and it's just, like, so cozy and warm, and if I could just replicate that once a month, I would be, like, just in heaven.

[Unknown]

Oh, my gosh. I love that. That's so sweet. I'm trying to think what mine would be like. Yeah, maybe it would be that. I also, like, I love Christmas because it's, like, cozy. Like, I'm like a sucker for, like, a twinkly tree.

[Julia]

Oh, yeah.

[Unknown]

And a onesie, for sure.

[Julia]

Usually around July is when I start getting the itch.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

I'm like, we need Christmas movies.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

It's time.

[Unknown]

I know. I actually recently was just, like, thinking about how I'm excited for summer, and then I was like, I actually wonder how long this is gonna last, because, like, I'm just, like, waiting for the switch to come. Like, I was laughing at myself. I'm gonna be eating my own words in, like, a couple months when it's, like, 100 degrees.

[Julia]

I'm like, I know. It also goes so fast. I feel like it's, like, January, and then it's June, and then it's Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas. Like, that's. It just goes so fast. So we're like, oh, we missed Christmas. But it's literally gonna be here, like, yeah, tomorrow.

[Unknown]

I feel like this year has gone by flown, Like, I think the quickest flown any year has gone by.

[Julia]

Could not great. Agree more.

[Unknown]

That is not just me. I've, like, stressed, like, the month is over. Like, how. How does this keep. I mean, clearly it keeps happening because that's how time works.

[Julia]

Like, time does work like that.

[Unknown]

How does this keep happening? Okay. You recently got engaged. I did. Congrats.

[Julia]

Thanks, girl.

[Unknown]

How'd you guys meet?

[Julia]

I slid into his dms, actually. It's kind of a long story, but not really. I. I did this, like, interview, like, for Inked magazine a while back, and I got to be on the COVID and I. I followed them on Instagram, and, you know, every once in a while, though, they'll show, like, a cool new tattoo artist. Like, and I was just scrolling, and I saw this picture of this tattoo that was really funny and really cool. I don't remember what it was at the time, but it was, like, it was realistic. Like, hyper realistic on one part and then, like, the cartoon on another.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And I was like, that's so cool. I've never seen anything like that before. And I went to his page, and I saw that he was French, and I was like, oh, he's in Paris. I'm going to Paris with all of my friends soon. Like, would love to get a tattoo.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And I. I was in a relationship at the time, so it wasn't, like, any thing. Like.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

You know, I was just like, this is cool art. Would love to get A tattoo. We picked a day.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

This was in March of 2020 that I'm supposed to go. So I go with my friends. This is like, right when the pandemic is popping off.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

We're like, do we even go still? And my friends are like, no. They're saying it's like the flu, you know? Like, we don't know.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

How would you.

[Julia]

Yeah. And so we ended up going, you know, like, it's chaos in the States, but we go there, and no one's wearing masks. Like, yeah, everything's okay. And. But then we start hearing more and more. And I basically just ghosted him. I didn't go to the appointment. I was like, people are dying. Like, priorities. And then never really talked to him again. And then my ex and I broke up, and I was going to New York with my mom.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Julia]

And I was scrolling, and I saw he was gonna be there doing, like, a residency, and I DM'd him and was like, oh, my gosh, like, you're gonna be there.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Would love to get a tattoo finally.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And we just started talking, and just the conversation was really nice. And I was like, when's your birthday? And he was like, are you asking for my sign? I'm a Scorpio. November 13th. I was like, wait, that's my birthday? And I was like, this motherfucker just Googled my birthday or something just to be funny. And I was like, oh, my gosh. Prove it. And he sends me, like, the little blurb on his, like, id. And I was like, that's so weird. I was like, do we look alike, too? Lol. And he sends me a picture of himself, and I was like, hi. And we kind of do weirdly, like, look alike a little bit. But he so love him so much, and I'm. Yeah. So excited.

[Unknown]

Oh, my gosh.

[Julia]

So, yeah, we, like, met New York, ended up not getting a tattoo, and just. We spent some lovely time together, and. Oh, that was pretty much it. We've been together ever since.

[Unknown]

I love that. Wait, that's crazy. You have the same birthday.

[Julia]

The same birthday.

[Unknown]

I say that as someone who is married to someone with. Now we have the exact same name. And I'm, like, shocked about your birthday, but I feel like that is crazy.

[Julia]

Yes. Four, three years. Three years apart.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

But the same day.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

So it's. I always. Because we do, like. We don't look alike, but we. We have. Both have black hair, we're both covered in tattoos, both have hazel eyes, and like, we celebrate our birthday together. And I always feel like I have to. I'm. No, we're not twins.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

No, no, no, no. Like, no.

[Unknown]

That's funny. One of my good friends, actually, him and I have the same birthday, and I'm an only child, and he's also an only child, so we always, like, grew up, like, wanting a sibling or, like, a shared birthday. And, like, now we share our birthday together with our friends, so it's really cute. It's funny that that has, like, happened later in life. Has he tattooed you at all?

[Julia]

No, he hasn't. But we talked about doing matching tattoos after our wedding, so I think we're gonna do that.

[Unknown]

We did. Taylor and I have, like, our.

[Julia]

Yeah, we. I think we're gonna get. I think we're gonna get some numbers as well from, like, when we first started, like, really dating.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Just, like, significance.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Of it.

[Unknown]

I love that. He does really good stuff. I was, like, stalking him.

[Julia]

Did you peep? He's so talented. I know. He's so hot.

[Unknown]

I can see the lore.

[Julia]

Love him so much.

[Unknown]

Is it. I want to ask you this. Is it nice dating someone that is not in the same industry as you?

[Julia]

Oh, my gosh. It's glorious. Oh, my God. I have, unfortunately dated quite a few people in the music industry. I tend to shit where I eat a lot.

[Unknown]

My husband did the same thing for a long time, so it's awful.

[Julia]

Don't recommend. Don't, don't.

[Unknown]

I did want to ask you this because I was reading an article, obviously, about you guys being engaged, and this is something that Taylor and I talk about a lot is when we got engaged, when we got married. In those articles, it always is like, he's also dated this person and this person and this person. And when I was reading some articles today, the same thing.

[Julia]

Oh, my gosh. Was there every time.

[Unknown]

How do you, like, what are your thoughts to that and how do you, like. Luckily, he sound that out, I guess for him too.

[Julia]

Yeah. Luckily, he's not really a jealous.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Person. Yeah. And he's like. I mean, if you wanted to be with them, you would have been, you know.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Obviously, love is choice, and I choose him every day, but it is really frustrating when you can't. You can't, like, move away from your.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Past. You know? And I know a lot of it is clickbait shit.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

You know?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Which is so tragic.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

But he's. He's just truly the. The loveliest about all of it. He's so understanding. Thank God.

[Unknown]

That's sweet. Yeah, Taylor all the time. I mean, obviously he's dated a lot of notable people that I have been fans of, even, like, before we were together.

[Julia]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And I am not the jealous type. If anything, I actually. I'm weird because I like to actually hear about some of these things just because it, like, helps me know who he is, like, behind closed doors. What were his relationships before? Like, because it, like, gives me insight into him and maybe how his mind works. If I'm doing something that maybe someone else did, and maybe it, like, triggers him or whatever.

[Julia]

Yeah. But luckily my man only listens to French rap and doesn't know who the fudge any of my exes are, so that's so good.

[Unknown]

But when. So Taylor obviously did a music video. Taylor Swift, like, a couple years ago. Yeah, I guess a couple of years ago now. And I was getting asked about, like, his ex so much and, like, so where he was like, it's just like, obviously, like, you're like, they barely dated.

[Julia]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

I don't care.

[Julia]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

I love her. She's a lovely human. And he's like. It's just like, he was getting frustrated for me, like, the fact that so many people keep, like, bringing this up to you, like, if it was any other world like that. Yeah, that wouldn't be the thing.

Yeah.

[Julia]

I mean, he. He is not in the public eye at all. Like, he's obviously very well respected in his field, but nobody in the tattoo community is going to be like, hey, so she dated this person? Like, they don't give a fudge. Yes. So he. He doesn't have to deal with any of that, which is really nice. And honestly, I've gotten really good at dodging questions from people when they ask me stupid questions about people that I don't care to talk about.

[Unknown]

I know.

[Julia]

You know?

[Unknown]

Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's. It's an interesting world. But I saw that and I was like, I want to ask her, like, her opinion, opinion or, like, advice on that because so it's just like, it's an article that's celebrating, like, your love and celebrating this, like, next chapter for you. But then they have to add in, like, I pass. I'm like, why do we. Why do we gotta do.

[Julia]

To be honest, I don't. I don't really look at those things.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

You know, like, they don't enhance my life in any capacity.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

You know, like, I'm in love and I'm happy and I'm getting married and, like, that's just the bottom line. And I Feel like I would go fucking crazy if I looked at that stuff all the time. Like I don't really need constant reminders of the way that I wasn't loved right or the way that I wasn't treated right.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

When I'm being loved the way that I want to now.

[Unknown]

Yeah. That's so good.

[Julia]

You know that you have that, that love. And me too. He's so great. Love him.

[Unknown]

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[Julia]

It definitely developed later in life. I. It started when I was, like, 18.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Julia]

I just signed my first publishing deal, and I think that I had always written songs because I just loved writing songs. Started writing songs really young, before I even knew what it was. I didn't even know. I would just hum things, or I'd write things down, or I would write poetry, and then I would turn them into songs. You know, I didn't even know that that was a job.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And I think when I turned 18 and I signed that deal, it became very real that I now had this pressure to perform.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And I think that just ate me up. And I didn't have a manager at the time. I had just a publisher that was, like, working me dry.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

I would be in, like, three sessions a day and just be exhausted and, like, running off of, like, coffee and barely any food.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And one day I just had, like, one of the scariest, like, panic attack like, that I've ever. I was in one of my friend's kitchens, we were writing songs, and I just felt my heart go crazy.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And I just, like, dropped to the floor. Just couldn't catch my breath. Didn't know what it was. Thought I was dying.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And then went through, like, a series of tests to make sure I wasn't dying. And they're like, yeah, no, you're. You're just. You have anxiety.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And I was kind of introduced to anxiety because my sister had it.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Julia]

But I was always like, you're fine. Everything's fine. Like, I was, like, 9, you know, when my sister was 12 or 13 when she had it, and I'm like, yeah, there's nothing wrong. Like, everything's okay. And then, you know, you go through it yourself, and you're like, oh, my God.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

So sorry that I dismissed your feelings. Like, I had no idea that this is. This was what you were going through. This is horrible.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And I had, like, people in my family when I started having anxiety, dismissing my feelings, and to just know how it all felt in that moment. But, yeah, it started really late in life, and then it's. It was really bad. My anxiety turned to panic attacks when I was, like, 21. Because 21 was when I started having, like, Real success as a songwriter.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

I think like, Good for you by Selena had come out and gone number one and then Sorry for Justin had gone number one and then Hansed Myself had gone number one and it was like almost back to back to back. And then I had this fear that I was gonna walk into a room and people were gonna like, expect me to like gold.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And I was terrified I would have panic attacks in the rooms all the time. And it got to a point where I was like, this, this just can't be my life. I can't be having all of these amazing things that are happening right now and feel this way. And I still have this weird relationship with success. I still, when good things are happening, I still get those PTSD anxiety responses from it. And that's something I've really been trying to work on in therapy as a 31 year old woman.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

But yeah, it started later in life for me.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

When did you decide to like publicly share about it?

[Julia]

I. So I had that success when I was 21. And when I was 23, I signed a record deal with Republic Records and I put out a song called Issues, which was obviously like a very vulnerable song. And I think because it was a very vulnerable song, it kind of was my like identifier.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And then I think people. There was kind of like an expectation that I was going to speak about things that I was going through. And I'm an open book. Like I have no problem talking about these things. You know, if it helps somebody in Nebraska that's watching, you know, then amazing. But yeah, I think I, I mean, I was pretty open about it right away because I was actively living in it. I had to start performing. I had never really performed before. I learned how to sing in on the mic in the dark in a booth where I could re sing it 80 times and no one was gonna judge me.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And you know, being in front of people that you don't know and how raw and vulnerable and scary that is.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

I was petrified. Like everywhere I went. I think there was like an entire year where I just had nothing but anxiety. I even tried to like run away from a few events because I was just like crippled with anxiety. It was awful.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

That is. I relate to a level on that because it's just, it's the worst. And it's also. I feel like you. You almost can't like validate yourself. Like I've. I've been in a season right now where I've been having a bit more panic Attacks.

[Julia]

I've same.

[Unknown]

I worked as. I worked as a Covid nurse in 2020.

[Julia]

Wow.

[Unknown]

And then.

[Julia]

Well, thank you for all your help.

[Unknown]

Thank you. But I obviously, like, developed PTSD and a lot of stuff from that, and that was when a lot of my stuff was going on, and now I'm, like, removed from it. But at the same time, I'm like, I've, like, I've had, like, three panic attacks this month. Like, I'm like, I thought I was past this, and I'm like, yeah. I'm kind of like, at times I feel like I'm, like, getting discouraged, but I'm like, no, actually, like, it's maybe just a reminder for me that I need to, like, check in.

[Julia]

Like, yeah.

[Unknown]

Even just. When's the last time you had a glass of water? When's the last time, like, your skin saw the sun? Like, that kind of a thing.

[Julia]

No, I get it. I literally woke up this morning. Like, I couldn't sleep. I woke up feeling, like, so dizzy and my nose was bleeding, and I was, like, cool. Like, sure. Like, we're just how we're going to start our day. Let's go.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And I, like, I'm going through so many, like, beautiful things right now, but also going through, like, a couple of tough things. And I was talking to my therapist about it, and I was like, my anxiety is so bad right now because I am so sensitive.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Like, and I'm. I'm such a, like, routine kind of a person, and I keep the same people around me. And so when, like, the synergy of that gets, like, knocked off even just a little bit.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

My whole body just feels it, and I'm, like, so stressed. And I, like, takes me forever to get back onto. And my therapist is like, I would be really surprised right now if you weren't anxious with, like, everything that you're going through. And she's like, honestly, I think that you need to just have anxiety right now, and that's okay.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And I'm like, oh, yeah, I guess so. Like, it kind of sucks that it's happening, but, like, this, too shall pass.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

You know, it's. It's not going to be here forever.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And I have to remember. And my anxiety comes in waves. Like, sometimes it will be so bad.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And then I'll have, like, a month where I have none of it. And I'm like, wow.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Like, I'm thriving.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And then she'll just come up.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And I'm like, cool. Like, how long are you Staying here. Like, yeah, I'm going to charge you rent now. Like, this is literally. This is crazy. Yeah.

[Unknown]

I feel like that's like, I get frustrated when I start to struggle again, but at the same time I'm like, no. Like, I'm not going to let this take, like, have power over me. Even though it definitely has power sometimes, but I know that there will be like another side to it.

[Julia]

Do you have. Do you have like your kind of like, go to. To get yourself out of it methods sometimes?

[Unknown]

Yes. I have recently realized, though, that I was being naughty. And normally, normally my husband knows when I'm like, I'm like, I'm a workaholic too. Like, I cannot sit still. Like, I feel like I'm being lazy. If I even just like take like an hour, like, sit and I. I could work for 12 hours and I'd be like, well, no, I need to be doing something.

[Julia]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

It's something that I need to work through. And he is the opposite of that. Like, he's very good. Like, when it's downtime, it's. He's not doing anything.

[Julia]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And I found myself kind of like keeping that I was stressed going on because there was a lot of stuff that had to be done. We have like, personal stuff going on over summer. And I was keeping from him that I was anxious because normally I'll tell him when I am feeling anxious, if I, like, need to lay in bed for the day, I'll have like a work from bed day.

[Julia]

Is he really, like, forgiving?

[Unknown]

Yeah, that's.

[Julia]

That's great.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

Then he, he knows and he's like my voice of reason. He's like, you need to chill. Like, let's say no to this and let's. But I wasn't telling him I was anxious. So I was saying yes, everything. And I didn't have my voice of reason. And then I had a snowball of panic attacks and I was like, I can't. Like, like, shame on me for doing that. Like, I can't. That was the first time I ever did it. I was like, oh, frick. Like, I'm. My brain has gotten. She's learned that I normally I go to him and I'm like, hey. Like, I'm kind of struggling with this.

[Julia]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And she didn't want me to go to him and I didn't. And I. Luckily it's nothing worse than.

[Julia]

Having it, like, take it on yourself too, you know, He.

[Unknown]

I. I tend to be a bit.

[Julia]

Of a martyr in the sense that I'm like, no, I got this.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

I can hit, like, oh, this is. I'm gonna make this more complicated for myself.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

So that I don't burden everybody else. And it's like, literally, it's like. But I don't have. Like, that's why people are in our lives that love us. Like, that's why they're here, and they want to be there for you and vice versa, you know? No, it's.

[Unknown]

It's. It's so true.

[Julia]

Especially when I know I'm going to be going through something or I'm going through something. I'm. I'll be like, babe, this is. This might not be affecting me right now.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

But it might affect me in a couple of weeks.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And just know that, like, if it does, I'm sorry. This is just what it's going to be for a little bit. And he's like, I totally understand. I got you.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And he's so patient. And, like, he can always tell, too, if I'm going through something. And he'll be like, do you want to take a bath or something? Like, water for me is like, I need to be around water, in water, by water. Something that, for me, like, when I am having anxiety, like a bath, a long shower, like, just the sound of water even calms me down.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And he can, like, just see it on my face. He'd be like, bath. I'm like, yeah, okay. And sometimes we're like. We'll do one together. And he'll be like, do you want to talk about it? And sometimes I will, and sometimes I won't. Because sometimes I, like, need to even just process it.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Myself.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Before I can even talk about it out loud.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

You know, Taylor always asks me because sometimes. Sometimes I do. I have ocd, so I definitely, like, spiral with things and that can, like, bring it on. But sometimes it's just like, there's nothing. And all of a sudden I'm crying, and I, like, need my inhaler. I can't breathe, like, type thing.

[Julia]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And he always will be like, is there anything that caused it? And I'm like. He's like, it's okay if there's not. And I'm like, no, there's not. He's like, that's okay. And he just, like, it's so. It's so cool. And, like, I want this type of relationship for, like, everyone. Like, not even just my friends, like, everyone, like, having a partner that I can literally go to sobbing. I know he's not gonna ask me Any questions? Like, when the time is right, he will. I know he's not going to judge me. I know. He's literally. He will just hold me and I'll sob. And even if it's like, the dumbest thing that sent me, he's like, well, if we're gonna work through it, or, like, it's fine. Or you have a lot on your. Like, he's just so reassuring.

[Julia]

Same.

[Unknown]

Being with him is the first relationship I've ever, like. I think it comes down to, like, respect, too.

[Julia]

I always say 100 people are like.

[Unknown]

What'S your favorite quality about him? Like, that he respects me. And he's like, you make me sound so dumb. Like, when you say that, I'm like, no. Like.

[Julia]

But you would think that's just, like, a common.

[Unknown]

Like a normal, common sense thing, but.

[Julia]

It'S not, which is so sad.

[Unknown]

Maybe we need to, like, reevaluate things. But I've never, like, described someone like that before, and he was like, what do you. Like, what do you even mean? I'm like, you actually, like, respect me as a human. You actually care what I think. You actually care that I'm doing well. You care that I'm thriving. You, like, he actually cares about.

[Julia]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Everything for me, which I feel like is so important. And sometimes I'm like, I literally don't know, like, what I would do without you, period.

[Julia]

Yeah. Literally. Yeah.

[Unknown]

We.

[Julia]

He knows that my love languages are physical touch and quality time.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And so, like, if I'm really stressed, he knows that, like, we could be on the couch and he could put his, like, fudgeing pinky toe on me.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And I'm like, yep. I feel loved.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Great. Thank you. Literally, you know, or, like, if I'm really stressed, he's like, what are you doing tomorrow morning? Like, let's go for a walk. Let's go get breakfast together. Let's go spend some time together before you have to go to work.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And I'm like, oh, that does help me so much, you know, and it's. It's really nice having a partner that knows that and. And, like, actively tries to, like, make, like, our relationship.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Because he knows, like, obviously if I'm sad or whatever, like, he's just. Yeah. He's gonna, like, be there for me and vice versa. And.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And that's. It's really nice that he sees it and then shows up, you know? Like, I feel like. I feel like that's also something that should be common.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

In a relationship. And isn't Yeah.

[Unknown]

I saw a tick tock the other day, and it was you. Like, like, women choose your men, like, wisely, your partner for life, because that's who is going to be with you. Like, when your parents die, that's gonna. Who's gonna be with you. Like, and you're gonna have to deal with death and loss with this human. So choose them. Right. Because that is, like, the ultimate. Like. Yeah, you're gonna.

[Julia]

I think I commented on that.

[Unknown]

Oh.

[Julia]

To be honest. And I. I said something like. I was like, yeah, I've been with my man through both of his grandparents passing away.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

He's been with me through, like, two major surgeries that I had to have.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And, like, basically we started dating in July. I had this, like, heart surgery in August. And he was, like, calling my mom, making, like, try. Like, he flew to come be there and sleep next to me in the hospital and had to, like, help me even get to the toilet so I could pee. And, like, just. And he. It was like, Honestly, I knew that I had feelings for him, but it was. It was that and him being so willing to take care of me when we had basically just met.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And he. I was like, wow. Like, this is my person. Yeah. When I was with my ex, I started having, like, these little hurt issues. And I was, like, letting him know that this was probably going to be a possibility, that I was going to have to have this surgery. And he said to me, I hope I'm in town for that. Isn't that amazing? I love when. I love when boys be boying. You know what I mean? Yeah. He said, I hope I'm in town for that. And this man, I met him and then literally a month later, he was sleeping.

[Unknown]

He made himself in town next to me.

[Julia]

Yes, absolutely. And then took care of me, hung out with my mom for an entire week. They got to know each other, and they were watching movies and, like, playing board games together and, like, taking care of me. And I was just like, yeah, this is literally the man I'm gonna marry, period.

[Unknown]

Ladies, if you take anything away from this episode, it's you just find a man.

[Julia]

Like, we have find a man.

[Unknown]

Find a man. Period. Literally, Period. I actually even forgot we were filming, but I was, like, so locked into conversation. Like, what are.

[Julia]

Even.

[Unknown]

What am I even supposed to be talking about? I mean, I guess that is.

[Julia]

I love that.

[Unknown]

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[Julia]

Yes.

[Unknown]

Like, of course, like, lived an entire life before I knew him. And I find it interesting that I talk to, like, obviously, with this podcast, talk to a lot of people that have had fame and success and are on Netflix shows and doing this, that, and the other. And they all say a very similar thing that you said that when they're having the success and then they are struggling with their mental health, it's hard for people to, like, validate. Like, I shouldn't be feeling this way if I'm having the success. Like, who gets to say they have. They are starring in the number one show on Netflix. Who gets to say they have a song at the top of the charts, whatever it may be.

[Julia]

Right.

[Unknown]

And, like, it's this weird, like, mind thing that happens when it's like, even though there is good things happening, like, it's hard to, like, there's so many people that would want to be in my shoes. Like, how. Like, I shouldn't be feeling this way. Like, I should be excited. I should be this. And kind of, like, invalidating yourself. How have you grown to validate yourself? I guess through those thoughts. You're fine.

[Julia]

I haven't. I don't yet. I don't think.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

I definitely try to be, like, forgiving with myself, but I think everything is relative.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

You know, just because, you know, you're working on a. A set and you know you're struggling with your mental, like, doesn't mean you're not allowed.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

To struggle with your mental health.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

You know what I mean?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Like, of course, like, that's stressful. It's a lot of pressure. Like, of course you're allowed to. To have that. And so I, I think I just. I just try to give myself grace.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

As much as possible, honestly. And I try to be, you know, forgiving.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

It's hard, too, though, when you see comments from people that are like, oh, you asked for this.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And I was like, yeah. I didn't ask to be, like, bullied online and, like, be treated like Kakita by, like, a bunch of people I don't know. Yeah, that's someone I asked for.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

It's so interesting. I had this. Mind you, I don't. Like, I would not call myself a famous person at all. And I had this girl come up.

[Julia]

Me too. Honestly, Like, I wouldn't do that.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

Like, I don't.

[Julia]

I'm not being followed by people. Yeah. On the regular, like, I get to just, like, make songs and, like, honestly, I walk down the street, nobody knows who the I am. I'm like, great. Love that.

[Unknown]

That's the kind of success I strive for. But this girl. This girl, she's probably, like, 18, maybe. She came up to me and she was like. She said something like, I love your podcast, whatever. And she was like, I didn't realize that famous people struggled with their mental health. And I was like, it's not just like a. If anything, honestly, like, it's. It's. Everyone struggles with mental health. And I feel like fame just honestly brings on this weird level of mental health struggles that I didn't personally ever see my friends struggle with that weren't like.

[Julia]

It's just.

[Unknown]

It's this weird thing. But it's so interesting that the public has this opinion that just because you have money, because you have success, because you have whatever, like, you don't have.

[Julia]

Any problems or you don't have any feelings either.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

It's like, we're like robots.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And that's not obviously true.

[Unknown]

It's at all. It's such, like, an interesting. It's an interesting, like, balance of, I don't know, people's opinion. I don't know. It's so weird. It's a weird thing. Luckily, I feel like I'm.

[Julia]

It's a weird world.

[Unknown]

It is. It really is. I feel like I'm like, luckily, I'm like, the outside of it. And my husband has a very loving fan base, so I don't ever have.

[Julia]

To, like, that's good.

[Unknown]

If whenever we have, like, a reality person on the podcast, I just know the hate comments are coming in because that's, like, who comes and comments on the main thing.

[Julia]

Yeah, I. I typically have, like, really lovely fans. It's like, it's typically. Sometimes the. The fans of the artists that I write with that's. Sometimes have something to say about me. For some.

[Unknown]

You with a lot of artists that have big fan bases, so.

[Julia]

Yeah, I could see that. And sometimes they're not that nice to me, and I'm like, I don't. I don't know why. Like, I love the person that you root for.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

So much. Like, so I don't know why you're coming for me, but, yeah, sure.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

That's fun world. Fun world that we live in. Okay. I want to talk about songwriting. Okay. We kind of touched on it. You started writing, like, when you were a kid. Is that always what you wanted to do? Like, were you ever, like, I want to do, I don't know, a corporate job?

I don't know.

Was that what you wanted to do?

[Julia]

I. When I was in high school, I was taking electives for forensic science because I thought that I might go to school to do something like that. But that was because I just didn't know that you could actually have a career as a songwriter. Like, I didn't know that was a thing, really. Yeah, my sister would sing, like, demos around the city. Well, I. I knew by 17, by 16, it was 16, that you could. But I didn't know you could, like, live off of being a songwriter.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

You know, my dad had moved here to be an actor, and that didn't really work out the way that he wanted it to.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And I think when I started showing a lot of interest in songwriting, he was like, no, like, you're going to school. You know, it was like, that kind of a vibe. And my sister, when I was, like, 15, 16, was singing kind of some demos around the city, which basically, I don't. It doesn't really work like that these days, but when I was coming up, basically, like, songwriters would write a song, and if they wanted to pitch it to an artist, they would hire someone, like my sister that could kind of, like, sing it in the same way, emote it the same way in order to pitch it. And so my sister would do a lot of that and get paid for doing that. And then I would just sort of follow her around the city sometimes. And my mom had come with us one day, and God love her, but she lives in Nashville now, and I'm very grateful for the space. But she. Hi, Mom. I love you. She knows. Love you. And we went to this woman's house. Her name's Jolene Bell. And my mom was like, you should sing for her. And I was like, mom, like. And I ended up, like, singing a song for her on the piano. And she was like, do you. Do you write songs? And I was like, well, I like to, like, you know, pretend that I can. And she was like, we should write sometime. And I was like, okay, yeah, sure. And I remember one day I was getting ready to go to the mall to meet a friend of mine, and my mom had picked me up, and she started going, like, the opposite direction of the Valencia Mall.

[Unknown]

Yep.

[Julia]

I'm like, mom, where are you going? She was like, you're going to studio. I was like, but Alison's waiting for me at the mall. Like, what do you do? And, yeah, and so I literally went to the studio and I started writing songs with her. And.

[Unknown]

Wow.

[Julia]

We did a lot of, like. Like, library songs. So we started in the sync world.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And more of the, like, film TV world. And she was doing a lot with, like, Nickelodeon and Disney at the time. And so we. We had done a couple songs for the show called Austin and Ally. At this point, I'm like, 17, and two of the songs get picked up for the show. And the guy that was running the music division at the time for Disney, his name was Steve Vincent, was like, we think you guys should try for the theme song. And we're like, sure. So we tried for the theme song. We don't really hear anything. A week goes by, two weeks go by, and she emails him. She's like, hey, if you need us to write a new one, let us know. We're happy to do that. And he emails her back about an hour later and is like, actually, we just found out that it's yours. And So I was 17. I was like, in my math class. I went to a OFL Opportunities for Learning, and I had math. That was, like, the last thing I needed to pass. I was like, in my math class there, and when I got the call, I was like, yep, bye. And I actually didn't tell anybody that it happened because, you know, you get like a hundred no's before you get a yes. And there's always that, like, oh, my gosh, this is gonna happen. And then it doesn't happen. And then everyone's like, oh, hey, whatever happened to that thing? You're like, oh, well, dig the knife in. And so I actually didn't tell anybody. I signed the papers on my 18th birthday. And then when I actually saw it on TV, I told my parents, oh, my gosh. And then, yeah, from there, I started writing and Then I started kind of working more with artists from there, like, starting around 19, and then. Yeah. It just kind of.

[Unknown]

It's so.

[Julia]

Kept happening.

[Unknown]

It's so crazy to, like, look at this song that you've written on. Like, it's just. It's mind blowing. Like, it's just. It's so cool.

[Julia]

I've had a very. I'm very grateful. I. I've seen so many people in the songwriting world especially, like, come and go.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Like, they'll have a hit and it'll be like, everywhere, and then they just disappear. Like, where? And I'm so grateful that I am still here and people still ask me to be in rooms, like.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And it's. It's nice because I. I've. I still work with a few of the people that I came up with.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

You know, we're still. So it's. It's nice. Like, these are people that I've known since I was 18, 19, you know, again, I'm 31 now, and so getting to even grow up with these people and change with these people and evolve with these people musically and, like, personally. And. Yeah, it's just been such a beautiful thing, and I'm so happy that, you know, a lot of the people that I worked with when I was 19, I still work with today, even artists, you know.

[Unknown]

That's special.

[Julia]

Yeah, it is special. It really is.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

I just feel like you have, like, such a unique. Like, you're. You're one of those people that I know is so authentically yourself, and I think that's. I think that's a testament to your success is. I don't feel like you're trying to, like, be this person. Like, you're just like, you are you. And you show up and you are. Just spill your heart out into these.

[Julia]

Thank you. Thank you. I really appreciate that. I mean, that is. That's the point of being in the room. You know, like, we have. We have to be vulnerable and, like, put whatever foot forward we have to that day, you know, and whether that person shows up and they want to talk about, you know, a relationship that they're in or things that they're going through, or they want to just be like, hey, I want to talk about none of this because I'm avoidant. And, you know, like, I'm like, I'm here for you.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Whatever that means for you. I'm here for you.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

I think my. My nature is to nurture.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

I've always been the person where, like, you know, if someone's crying in the studio, and I just meet them. Like, my first instinct is just to, like, mama bear someone for sure. Or like, someone's having a panic attack or something. Or I'm like, here, I have oranges. Like, eat something. Or, like, you know, like, someone's like, like, freaking out and they're sweating. I'm like.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

You know, like, I'm just like, like, holding their hair and I'm, like, blowing on their neck, and I'm like, you know, I'm just. Have always been a very, like, act of service kind of a person. And I think that really kind of, like, comes in handy in my line of work because, like, it's not about ego. I don't have a fucking ego. You know, Like, I just want to do what's best for you.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Like, I just want to do whatever you want to do here.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And if it turns out, amazing. Amazing. If not, like, we're human.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And that's okay. You know, at least I got to spend a few hours with you and got to, like, get to know you and talk. And if we get to do this again, amazing. If not, like, I'm grateful that I got to have this experience with you.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

You know, it's so true.

[Unknown]

That ego thing is so true, because I feel that, honestly with you and Benny, Like, I feel like Benny is the same. Like, there's, like. No. We had dinner with him and Selena, like, last time we were in New York. I don't know. It's been a long time, but that was. I think maybe Taylor's been it before, but that was our first time, like, really sitting down with him. And, like, you literally would have no idea, like, this dude has even done any. Like, you would have no clue. And I feel like you are the same way. And it's cool that I love when success happens to people like that, and it's a reminder to people that are trying to be successful, like, your ego is going to get in the way 100% success.

[Julia]

And I've seen it. I've. I've seen it ruin a lot of people.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

I mean, I've been doing this for a long time.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

You know, and I think that's a big reason why people come and go. And, like, also, if you can be the best songwriter in the world, but if you're a fucking asshole and you're showing up and it's like, it's your way or the highway, like, no one's gonna want to work with you.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

That's not how it works.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

You know.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And I've definitely learned that there are. There are a lot of amazingly talented human beings in this world that are not going to treat you like that. Even artists. Like, I won't name names, but if I'm in a room with someone and they feel like they can be rude to me, yeah. I'm, like, cool. Like, there's other songwriters that will happily do this with you.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

But I'm not going to sit here and let you.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Treat me like this.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

That's not what we're doing today, but I'm happy for you.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And if there's somebody that can stand that with you.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Then let them do that. But it will never be me.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Like, thank you.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

That's a great boundary.

[Julia]

Yeah. You know, I'm learning those. It's funny because in my book, I found in my business side of my life.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

I have so many more than I do in my personal life.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And I think because in my business life, like, as a songwriter, I know what I can do and what I'm capable of.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And I find a lot of power in who I am in. In my confidence of knowing that I can do this.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And in my personal life, I don't think I feel powerful. And in that, I don't have a lot of boundaries, which is funny. And so. Yeah. With business things or with songwriting things or with things that are of principle or of moral, I'm like, yeah, no, this isn't fair. I know this isn't fair. This isn't right. I know this isn't right.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Like. And I'm like, cool. I know this is. I know the situation. I will leave.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Or this doesn't serve me or my peace. I will leave. But if it's, like, personal stuff, I'll forget it. I have no boundaries.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

I'm like, no, take all my money. I don't guess. Whatever. It's fine. Everything's fine. It's like Elmo with the. Like. Or, like, you know, with the burning fire. That's literally me and my personal life, like, at all times.

[Unknown]

That is so funny. That's like a perfect picture to paint right there, too. Oh, my gosh. So good. I'm curious. Do you like songwriting or performing your own, like, music more? Do you like writing for other people? Writing for yourself and then, like, performing it more?

[Julia]

I think writing is something that has always been my first love. It's. I absolutely love the process of songwriting.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

I love that you can walk into a Room and not know anything about the person that you're about to write a song with.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And then all of a sudden, an hour later, four hours later, six hours later, you have a song and you get to take it with you and you can, like, listen to your feelings and, like, you can leave it there. I love that there's this, like, outlet for people in my industry to be able to have. You know, it's like.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

I'm not a. I'm not someone that writes in a journal because I'm like, why would I do that when I could just literally go write about it and be able to, like, put it down and have it and like, if I want to share it with the world, then I get to share it in the world. Like, how cool is that?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And I love. I love writing with other people because, you know, like, I write one type of genre for myself typically, but, you know, I'm. I write all kinds of genres with all kinds of artists. And I love. I love that I never know what it's gonna be.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

You know?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Which is funny. Cause I'm such a routine person. And this is not routine in the way that we go about songs, like, ever. Because you never know who you're gonna write with. Like, sometimes people come in and they'll have an idea.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And it's like, great, let's write that idea. Or sometimes people will come in and they don't write songs.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

But they'll talk in lyrics. And it's like, oh, great. Like, all you got to do is talk and we'll just put this in a song. Or sometimes people are so self sufficient and I'm like, cool. Like, maybe we just. Maybe I'm here to help with, like, structure and like a line or two or like, like sway you into how this can work conceptually.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

You know, and so it just different all the time. And I love that. And I think performing can sometimes feel a little routine.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Because it's. You're kind of singing the same songs every night. And like, even though I love being with fans and, like, seeing the fans and like, seeing the songs come to life in real time and like, seeing them and be like, this is the point.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Like, this is literally the point.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

I think my safe space will always be in a studio in a dimly lit room.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Writing a song.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

About whatever the hell I want to write a song about. You know, like, that was my safe space as a teenager, was being in my room and having my own, like, having my keyboard in my room and writing, like, that's just always been where I've felt.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

The freest.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And the safest. That's so good, you know.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

I love that. I love that for you. I did want to ask, have you ever had, like. Have you ever had a hard time parting with a song? Like, having. Writing. I don't know. I don't. You could say no, and that's not how it works. But, like, have you ever written a song and you were, like, maybe wanting to you sing it and you ended up giving it away to someone else and you were like.

[Julia]

Yeah, well, Issues actually was gonna be that.

[Unknown]

Oh.

[Julia]

Issues was written, like, in a camp for somebody else. But I was going through something at the time.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And I think it was, like, the most personal song that I had written.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And I'd never really had, like, an attachment to songs, but I think because it was, like, my story.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

It felt really weird. I was like, I don't feel comfortable with somebody.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Singing my story. And not. Not all the time, but sometimes people will, like. Some artists will say that they wrote it.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

When they didn't. Which is, like, fine. It's part of, like, our industry.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Like, again, doesn't happen all the time, but there are a select few people. And the idea of, like, being of, like, my emotional, like, attachment to the song and, like, my history in the song.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Being, like. Like, I didn't even. Like, I wasn't there in my own story.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Was, like, like, a weird feeling for me.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And so that was, like, kind of the first time where I was like, I. I don't know if I can give this to somebody.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And I never had the thought of being an artist. That was not really, like, in my plan.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

I always thought I was just going to be, like, you know, a Carrie Gordy or.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

A Diane Warren, you know, someone that was just kind of, like, behind the scenes but was just, like, you know, writing.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Writing songs, and. Yeah. The song was just, like, a little too personal. And then. And then it was everywhere, and I was like, oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah. And it happened, like, much quicker than I had anticipated.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

Was that scary, like, coming out with your own.

[Julia]

Terrifying. Yeah, terrifying. It's obviously so different when you've been a part of a song and you get to, like, watch it, like.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Come out and, you know, and, like, obviously support, like, these artists that you love and.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

But.

[Julia]

Yeah. Oh, my gosh, it was so scary because then everyone's looking at you.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And I never had that before.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Like, I'm just a shadow. Like, I'm just like an invisible shadow and I'm fine with that.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And then it was like everyone was staring at me all at once.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And it was so scary. Yeah.

[Unknown]

I can't imagine. Have you. Have you grown to enjoy that more? As. I mean, you've obviously come out with a lot of your own music since that. Have you learned to enjoy it more or do you still.

[Julia]

I don't perform as much as I used to. I. I want to, but I think I didn't put out music for a while. I was kind of stuck on my label. And not that I'm petty, I just didn't want to give songs to a label that weren't going to help me. And I just was like, I would rather do this on my own than you taking half of everything that I own and doing nothing.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And luckily I had a very amicable split from my label. They were so lovely about letting me go and letting me do this on my own. And it could have been really nasty. And I'm so grateful that it wasn't, like, shout out to them for being so lovely about.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Letting me leave. But I. I'm now, like, in the process of putting out music.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Which is so nice to be able to do that again. And I just have to say, too, like, my fans since issues, I mean, they are unwavering. They are so unconditional. Like, when I don't put out music, they're still there supporting me. They're so lovely, so warm. I really believe you, like, attract what you put out. And so, like, I. I hope that that is, like the energy that I give.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And that is like, what I have received from my fans, which is just so incredible.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And so being able to put out music has been so nice. But I haven't been performing like I have in the past because I didn't have a lot of new music.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And that's something that we're talking about now.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

But, yeah, I feel like, you know, even when I meet people and they know who I am, it's never like frantic or anything like that. Like, a lot of the times people will come up to me and be like, hey, just big fan of your songwriting, and we'll talk about music for a little bit. And most of the time, which I really love, they won't even be like, can I take a picture with you? Or anything like that. A lot of times this is like an airport meet where I'M like, in my sweatpants. I've got my, like, Starbucks, you know, so, like, luckily they're very gracious with me. And they're like, oh, no, you look like a troll. Like, don't worry, I'm not gonna, like, blast you like this. Love that.

[Unknown]

I love that for you.

[Julia]

But, yeah, I feel like a lot of my encounters are just like. It's like almost like seeing old friends. Like, you're like, oh, hey, like, yeah, how are you? It's been so long. Like, yeah, cool. Like, sounds good. All right, I'll see you later. Yeah, have a great flight.

[Unknown]

There's something that's so cool about having, like, genuine fans like that. Like, when people come up to me and talk about the podcast or like, I loved your episode with so and so because of this. I'm like, wow. Like, you actually, like. Like, this podcast is like my baby. Like, you know, your songs are your babies and it's like, like, it's cool to, like, have, like, receive that love of, like. And people, like, actually like, knowing, you know, people come up to Taylor all the time and be like, I love the werewolf movie. I'm like, you don't even know what it's called. You're just, like, trying to take a photo with him.

[Julia]

But it's like the people that come up to you and are respectful.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

That's when I'm like, cool. I actually want to take a picture with you.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

You know what I mean? Like, I'm like, oh, you're so nice and cool and chill about, like, all of it.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

It's the ones where, like, I'll be like, walking and someone will, like, scream my name or something, like, in a public place. And I'm like, you didn't have to do. You can. I'm very normal. You can literally come up to me and be like, hey, what's up? And be like, hey, what's up? Like, nice to meet you. Bye. You know what I mean?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Like, I remember there's one time this guy, like, made like a. A tick tock about how I was, like, rude to him in a Target because he had, like, screamed at me from like an, like, down the aisle. And I, I like, jump scared because obviously if someone's screaming at me in a public place, I'm My first in, like, reaction isn't going to be like, oh, hi. My first. My initial reaction to be like, there's a crazy man screaming at me.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I'm gonna run.

[Julia]

I'm gonna like, yeah, I'm like, in Fight or flight mode, for sure. Like, I'm either gonna punch you in the face or I'm gonna run. Like, that's just what it is.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Like, if you had just been like, oh, hey, like, fan of your music. That's cool. Like, I'm like, cool. Thank you. Like, that's really nice.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

You know what I mean?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

There's a way.

[Unknown]

There is a way.

[Julia]

There's a way.

[Unknown]

There is a way. And I'm very thankful when people understand that way.

[Julia]

Yeah, me too. Yeah. And the one that. The ones that, like, see that I'm, like, with my family or I'm, like, with my friends, and they're like, you know what? I want to say hi, but, like, she's doing her thing. Like. Like, wow, that's so nice.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

You understand boundaries.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

We love that for you.

[Unknown]

We love boundaries.

[Julia]

We love that.

[Unknown]

Even though we're still trying to figure.

[Julia]

Out, we're still figuring them out.

[Unknown]

Okay. You touched on new music, and you actually have some new music out.

[Julia]

I do.

[Unknown]

Pee out. I do. Called Second Self. What. What does this project mean to you?

[Julia]

So this is my first. My first project, independent, which is so big.

[Unknown]

Can you explain that a little bit to our listeners that may not, like, if there's, like, a layman's terms for that.

[Julia]

So, basically, I. I started my own label, so I'm releasing it by myself. I'm. I have this incredibly beautiful small team of people that we've put together for this label to help it run smoothly and get it off the ground. But that just means I don't have, like, the major label support. I don't have the bank. I don't have the DSP reach. I don't have the infrastructure that labels would have. So, you know, a song comes out on a major artist on a major label, the song is everywhere because they're putting hundreds of thousands of dollars into the campaign for you to be able to see those songs and hear those songs. We ain't got that.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Like, dude, we're doing. We are small and mighty, and we're just. We're out here doing it, you know?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

That's basically what it means. Yeah. And I. I called it Second Self for a few reasons. One, being like, this is sort of my second chance.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

To, you know, sort of bet on myself.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And two, you know, I was talking about this earlier, but, like, you know, when you come out with a song that is, like, your first song, a lot of the times that is sort of your identifier.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

You know, so, like, you come out with a song, like, issues, and so people kind of expect you to be this vulnerable, raw, emotional person all the time.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Like, I'm not allowed to have personality traits other than those things. And I think when you're signed to a major label and that becomes your identifier anytime you try to do anything else.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

It's like, no, but you're, like, the sad girl.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

On the label. You need to be the sad girl on the label, you know?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And then you start to kind of be in your head. Anytime you write something that's, like, sexy or flirty or fun or whatever, and you're like, oh, no. But, like, my fans don't want to hear this. My label definitely doesn't hear this. So I'm just. I'm not gonna do this. I'm not gonna do this. I'm gonna just write songs that are, like, emotional and heartbreaking because that is who I am.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And, you know, that is a big part of who I am. I am those things. There is no doubt and no doubt from anybody that knows me, that knows that I am those things. Things.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

But I also am goofy and silly and funny and flirty and, you know, multifaceted in my personality. And I really wanted to be able to encapsulate that and embody that on second self. It's like these, like, yes, that is me, but there's also this me.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

You know what I mean?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

I feel like it's a cool kind of, like, foreshadowing with your life, too. Like, definitely, you know, meeting your fiance and having, like, obviously, like, you can. Just because you're not dealing with, like, you know, you're not breaking up with him or you're not in a toxic relationship doesn't mean, like, you can't. Like, obviously, you can still write about that from lived experience, but totally you having this. You know, you're coming out, you're showing another side of you. Like, you're now in this new relationship, and you're right. Like, in a healthy one. And, like, it's just a new. I feel like there's a lot of parallels with this definitely in your personal life and in your.

[Julia]

Yeah. And I feel like. I feel like this EP is just sort of, like, giving me permission to sort of, like, be these things, you know? It's like, yes, I, I, I know that I am a certain thing, but, like, writing a song that's like a fun pop song.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Doesn't take that away. Like, I can also have Songs like that, that I love that are just, like, fun and flirty and relatable in that sense, you know, like, someone wants to go out and have a good time or someone wants to, like, check someone out. You know, it's like, it's okay for me to have those songs as well as the ones that, like, rip your heart out. You know what I mean?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

What does it mean to you to own your music?

[Julia]

Oh, my gosh. It means everything. I mean, this is the first time that I've had full creative control over everything, you know, down to, you know, the music video. I was never really even given proper budgets not to harp on.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

The major label system, it works amazingly for lots of artists. But, you know, there's some times when, like, you want. You have a vision, and your budget doesn't allow for your vision.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And I really love the idea of building a world. When I write songs, I see them visually. I see, like, how they can be, like, funny or campy or.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Or emotional, like in a video.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And I never really got to have that realized on a major label.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Until kind of towards the end. And so for me, that was, like, a big thing for me. I really wanted to have lots of fun visuals that went along with these songs. And also when you're, like, on a major label, they stress, like, having your face on everything so that everybody just, like, knows your face.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And when we put out Second Self, I was like, I don't want my face on any of the artwork.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Like, I don't want any of that. So we found this incredible illustration artist that makes these really fantastic, evocative works of art.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And we had her make all of the art for all of the singles. But it's honestly just been incredible, you know, being able to do things the way that I want to and the way that I envision and the way that I want it to sound and the way that I want it to feel and it not being contrived by.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

You know, people being, like, having conflicting things, and then you feel conflicted and you're like, oh, my gosh, is this even.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

You know, this. This was the first time I, like, wasn't stressed about putting songs out because I was like, no, these six songs feel right to me.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

I really love them. And I need to just, like, trust my gut. And I never really had the opportunity to trust my gut.

[Unknown]

That's so good.

[Julia]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

I love this for you.

[Julia]

Thank you.

[Unknown]

I'm like, I'm so excited for you because you are just cute. So talented. Obviously. You know, I have friends in the music industry. I hear all the crazy things with the labels and this, that, and the other. And it's just a world I don't even understand.

[Julia]

And what I hear, I barely even understand it.

[Unknown]

I don't understand.

[Julia]

I've been in it for 15 years, and I'm still like, what? Yeah.

[Unknown]

I'm like, is this illegal? Like, actually, like, I question it, and I don't know anything. I hear things that. 100% math on that. But I'm. I think they're dumb for not letting you, like, have creative freedom with stuff because you clearly just are so talented.

[Julia]

I don't think it was necessarily my label. I think that. And this is, like, a whole thing, but I really think that a lot of major labels don't trust their artists. And the. The ones that do. Those artists thrive.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

The ones that let them have their vision thrive. But I think a lot of this is just my theory.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

That a lot of the people that run major labels are still in the era where they just shoved a pop song down an artist's throat.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And we're like, you're gonna sing this.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

We're gonna sign you because we like what you do and what you stand for and your vision, but we're gonna shove these songs down your throat.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And, like, there'll be times where, like, an ANR will ask me, like, oh, we just signed this artists, and it'll be like, an artist that I've been working with for a while or something.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And they're like, what. What producers do you think this artist should be working with? Or songwriters? I'm like, why don't you ask her?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Like, she's been doing this for a while. She knows who she likes. She knows who she has chemistry with.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

She knows that this isn't broken. This is. These are the songs. And this is the reason she got signed.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Like, why are you trying to ask other people an opinion on her art? Like, shouldn't you just ask her, like, who she wants to work with? And I think. I think there's just, like, this, like, something's disconnect.

[Unknown]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Something's getting lost in communication. There's something 100.

[Julia]

That's just my. That's just my theory.

[Unknown]

Well, I'm, like, so excited for you to have this moment. And I have two final questions for you.

[Julia]

Okay.

[Unknown]

The first one is, what advice would you give your younger self when you were first starting out in the industry?

[Julia]

Nothing. Nothing. Because I am who I am today. Because I have gone through.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

So many things in this industry. Like, I can't even, like, the good, the bad, the heartbreak, the, like, falling in love with people that I've. That I'm writing with. The, like, you know, like, so it's like, just so much.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

But through all of that, I've obviously been able to grow and change and evolve and have perspective and process and, you know, like, who I was when I was 20 is not who I am at 31. Like.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Someone was talking to me the other day about a song that I wrote called Happy. And the precursor of that song is, like, sometimes I think I kill relationships for art. I start up all this to watch it fall apart. I pay my bills with it.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

It's like, whoa, whoa, 23. Chill.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

You know what I mean?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

Like, could never be me now.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

I feel like it had to be. Go through all of that.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

To be who I am now.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

And I feel like a lot of the good things and a lot of the bad things. A lot of the bad things have made me as adjusted.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

As I am today.

[Unknown]

I love that. Well, we got some good music out of that.

[Julia]

Period.

[Unknown]

Okay, last question for you is, you know, you have had so much success in your career, and you've accomplished so much, but I'm curious to know, either this can be from business or personal life. What are you most proud of yourself for?

[Julia]

What am I most proud of myself for? I think, like, breaking cycles. I don't come from the healthiest family. I don't come from money. That's not. I, Like, I was on, like, food stamps and the whole thing. Like, I don't come from anything. And I think. And, like, you know, breaking cycles of, like, toxicity, breaking patterns of things that I noticed in myself that I was like, wow, I really don't like the kind of person I am right now and actively working on those things. Like, I'm proud of myself personally more than I am professionally. I'm obviously very grateful to do what I love every day and be able to live off of the thing that I love doing every day. But I'm proud of the people that I keep around me. I'm proud of the fact that I never let it get to me, all of this.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

You know? You know, I'm just like a normal person. I go home and I, like, I'm in my garden, and I just.

[Unknown]

Like, we live the same life, you know?

[Julia]

Like, I'm just so normal. Like, so I'm. Yeah, I'm proud of myself for, like, doing therapy every week, working on myself, finding somebody that I love, that respects me and appreciates me, supports me. Going through all of those relationships where that wasn't a thing and me being able to be, like, cool. Those are things that I'm not gonna settle for. And I'm not going to wear rose colored glasses anymore. And I'm not going to see these red flags as, like, beige flags, you know, Like, I'm not gonna just gloss over. It's like, no, now these are things that I just will not stand for.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Julia]

You know, I'm being proud of myself for that. I feel like there's so many things, like, I'm so proud of myself for. I don't know, a lot of stuff.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I love that. This has been, like, so fun. I'm, like, sad it's over because I just want to keep talking. You're just, like, the easiest person to talk to. I just, like, relate to you so much on so many levels. But thanks for coming and chatting, sharing, and hopefully. This is a good interview. I have the, like, talked the whole time.

[Julia]

It's lovely.

[Unknown]

It's so good.

[Julia]

I love it. Thank you. Please note that this episode may contain.

[Unknown]

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