Mayci Neeley: No More Secrets

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Squeeze — Mayci Neeley: No More Secrets

Host: Taylor Lautner
Guest: Mayci Neeley
Date: October 8, 2025

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Episode Overview

This powerful episode of The Squeeze features Mayci Neeley, who opens up about her journey with trauma, loss, motherhood, and healing. Host Taylor Lautner guides a candid, compassionate conversation as Mayci shares vulnerable details from her new memoir, including the loss of her first love, rebuilding as a single mom, recovering from sexual and emotional abuse, and the process of regaining her voice. Mayci and Taylor explore mental health, faith, recovery, and what it means to break the silence in hopes of helping others feel less alone.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Mayci’s Story: Trauma, Loss, and Becoming a Mom Young

• Finding Out She Was Pregnant at 19

  • Mayci describes the shock and PTSD she still associates with discovering her pregnancy as a college student and athlete ([18:30]).
  • She details hiding her purchase of a pregnancy test and the overwhelming anxiety she felt as a young, unmarried woman in a faith-centric Utah community.
  • Quote: “I have so many core memories from back when I had trauma. Like, why do we have so many core ones from trauma and not just the happy stuff?” ([18:30]–[19:00])

• Telling Her Partner, Eric, and Facing Social Pressure

  • Mayci’s boyfriend, Eric, was “really chill” when told, showing support, but she reflects on how ultimate responsibility and life changes disproportionately fell on her as the woman ([21:40]–[23:54]).

• Eric's Sudden Death

  • Only a month and a half after learning she was pregnant, Mayci’s partner Eric died in a car accident, which occurred while he was texting her ([24:01]).
  • She opens up about the complex grief and guilt she harbored: “I definitely cared that guilt for, like, a long time ... if I wouldn't have sent the text or texted him back, like, he'd still be here, you know?” ([28:31]–[29:42])
  • Mayci reflects on the lifelong impact this loss has had on her relationships and mental health.

2. Navigating Single Motherhood

• Support Systems and Hardships

  • Mayci credits her “village” (her mother and others) for helping her raise her son, Hudson, while balancing college and athletics ([31:42]).
  • She discusses telling Hudson about his late biological father when he was four, following therapeutic guidance to introduce such realities between ages 3–5 for healthy understanding ([33:17]–[33:49]).

• Blending Families and New Love

  • Mayci met her now-husband Jacob when Hudson was only 7 months old but waited to introduce them. She talks about being wary of men’s intentions around single mothers ([35:03]–[35:31]).
  • She discusses dating, marriage, and deliberately taking time after an abusive relationship to ensure she felt safe: “I had been through bad relationships. Like, I was in [an] abusive relationship. And so I feel like I had learned from that, like, I need to make sure I know this guy inside and out.” ([37:02]–[38:20])

3. The Decision to Write Her Book

• Genesis and Meaning Behind the Memoir
  • Though Mayci always knew she wanted to write her story, the timing was right after a show spotlighted her and a book agent reached out ([10:46]).
  • The book’s title, originally meant to be “One Day,” ultimately reflects family dynamics and being the type to “learn from my own mistakes.” ([11:43]–[12:49])
  • Quote: “It’s the bigger picture here—because when I was going through [abuse], I didn’t even know I was being abused, for like a while, until I literally eventually Googled it…am I crazy?” ([46:05]–[47:22])

4. Sexual and Emotional Abuse: Breaking the Silence

• Living With Abuse and Blackmail
  • Mayci describes not realizing she was being abused and the pressure to stay silent, particularly due to her faith’s honor code system that could punish her for reporting abuse if she had also violated behavioral rules ([45:55]–[48:14]).
  • She explains her abuser weaponized threats to expose her for drinking and partying, leveraging her tennis scholarship and family ties to keep her trapped ([48:14]–[49:33]).
  • Notable quote: (On being blackmailed to stay) “If I didn't have a tennis scholarship…I'd have been like go ahead…But…I had the scholarship and my sister was my coach…so I would be disappointing, like, her. Granted, I did that anyways getting pregnant probably, but, like, whatever.” ([48:14]–[49:33])

5. Healing, Recovery & Advice

• Therapy, EMDR, and the Ongoing Journey

  • Mayci admits she hasn't done much therapy, sometimes finding it overwhelming or hard to stick with, but credits EMDR with helping address her sexual abuse trauma ([57:17]–[58:25]).
  • She acknowledges the ongoing effect of trauma—on relationships, parenting, and daily anxiety. “It’s been over 10 years, so it’s like, I know I need to go [to therapy], like. And I actually still never have worked through, like, Eric’s death in therapy.” ([57:36]–[58:25])

• Trusting Your Gut and Recognizing Red Flags

  • Mayci’s central advice for other women: trust your intuition. She ignored early signs in her abusive relationship, later realizing her body was warning her ([61:28]–[62:58]).
  • Quote: “If something doesn’t sound right or it’s too good to be true, it probably is…Even stories like him talking about his ex girlfriend…and I’m like, looking back, I’m like, red flag, red flag, red flag.” ([62:26]–[62:31])
  • She also warns about love bombing and the manipulations of abusers.

• On Speaking Up and Helping Others

  • Mayci urges survivors to wait until they’re ready, but emphasizes the power in sharing stories, not just for self-healing but for others who may be suffering in secret. She describes the flood of messages from readers after sharing her truth ([68:32]–[69:54]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Trauma and Guilt

• “I definitely cared that guilt for, like, a long time…if I wouldn’t have sent the text or texted him back, like, he’d still be here, you know?” — Mayci ([28:31]–[29:42])

On Breaking the Silence

• “When I was going through [abuse], I didn’t even know I was being abused, for like a while until, like, I eventually Googled it…am I crazy?” — Mayci ([46:05]–[47:22])

On Writing to Heal

• “When I’m writing it, I’m almost writing it for myself. Sometimes I forget other people are going to read it.” — Mayci ([46:05]–[47:34])

On Faith, Shame, and Systems of Silence

• “He was blackmailing me. So he basically, like, anytime I try to break up with him or anything, he'd be like, well, you're screwed. Like, I'm telling honor code.” — Mayci ([48:14]–[49:33])

On Advice for Survivors

• “Look out for red flags. Trust your gut and your intuition, cause [it’s] probably right.” — Mayci ([63:26]–[63:32])
• “The amount of messages I got from other women, like, that's when I saw, like, oh. There was a reason why I needed to share this.” — Mayci ([69:21]–[69:54])

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Key Timestamps

• [18:30]: Mayci discusses PTSD from finding out she was pregnant and the cultural/family fallout.
• [24:01]: Eric’s accident and Mayci’s years of guilt, internalizing blame.
• [31:42]: Navigating single motherhood and telling her son about his biological father.
• [35:03]–[38:20]: Blended families, dating with a child, overcoming trauma from past relationships.
• [44:41]–[48:14]: Detailed discussion of sexual, emotional abuse, blackmail, and impact of faith-driven pressures.
• [57:17]–[58:25]: Therapy approaches, EMDR for abuse, and resistance to confronting certain trauma.
• [61:28]–[62:58]: Advice for survivors: trusting intuition, recognizing love bombing, red flags.
• [68:32]–[69:54]: The importance of sharing your story for yourself and to help others.

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Tone and Style

The tone is intimate, frank, and supportive. Taylor and Mayci maintain a conversational, sometimes humorous, sometimes emotionally raw approach, encouraging listeners to process with them and find comfort knowing they are not alone in their struggles.

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Conclusion

This episode offers a deeply honest, nuanced portrait of surviving loss, abuse, and shame—and the radical act of healing out loud. Mayci Neeley’s courage in sharing not only her trauma but her ongoing recovery is positioned as a beacon for other women in faith-driven or high-pressure environments. With compassion and insight, she and Taylor Lautner create a safe space for listeners to find community, wisdom, and the first steps toward their own healing.

Transcript

[Macy]

The following podcast is a Dear Media production.

[Host]

How long after that was his accident?

[Macy]

Like a month and a half after I told him I was pregnant.

[Host]

Take me back to that day you found out you were pregnant.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Oh my God.

[Macy]

That day gives me ptsd. Oh my gosh. Like I was freaking out and I just like sat in the shower and like cried in the dark for like an hour. Beginning of February, when I told him he passed away March 24th. So that's like a month and a half in between.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Okay.

[Host]

When he got in his accident, was he texting you?

[Macy]

Yeah. Oh my gosh. Like those like the last words I said to him and that's like what he had when he died. His last message like was unfinished, like, oh my gosh, it was my fault he was texting me because he was obviously like sending that message when he like hit into a car, sent the text or texted him back like he'd still be here.

[Host]

I want to know your sexual abuse. Writing about those details again, was that.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Hard for you to do?

[Macy]

Yeah, I was like I had been through bad relationships. Like I was in abusive relationship.

[Host]

What made you feel like you needed to stay silent?

[Macy]

Well, at the time I felt like I had to cuz he was blackmailing me. So that means I'm losing my scholarship. When I was going through like, I didn't even. I was being abused like for like a while. Like what was happening to me? Cuz I'm like, am I crazy? Like trust your gut, like your intuition. Like if something doesn't sound right or it's too good to be true, it probably is. The amount of messages I got from other women, like that's when I saw like, oh. There was a reason why I needed to share this.

[Host]

Macy, welcome to the Squeeze.

[Macy]

Oh, thank you.

[Host]

Welcome back.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

I guess.

[Macy]

Yes, I did a brief one for Valentine's, but this is like the real deal.

[Host]

So I'm excited we're back in the comfies. Even though you're in full glam, we love.

[Macy]

I know, like half ready, half not is what we're going for today.

[Host]

It's great. We're comfy and we're glammy.

[Macy]

Yes.

[Host]

I've truly, I've just like missed you.

[Macy]

Like I just adore you lived closer. I know, I really do.

[Host]

I know I need to just take a little JSX flight over to you, but last time I saw you, you were very pregnant.

[Macy]

Yes.

[Host]

And now you're not pregnant.

[Macy]

I know. I feel so much better.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Oh my gosh.

[Macy]

I'm like, I feel so Free.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

How's baby?

[Host]

How is this whole. Like, would this still be considered newborn? I'm. I don't know, like what's.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Macy]

Until they're eight weeks, I think. So I think technically. Cuz she's still. She's still seven. So we're almost there. Oh my gosh. But she's so good. Like she's an angel. But I'm exhausted. So like how to use like those eye drops today during glam? Like I need the. No red eyes. The Lumify. Yeah, Lumify.

[Host]

How. How was birth and all of that stuff? Did everything.

[Macy]

Yes. Oh my gosh. It actually went so good because I knew I was doing a plan C section.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Okay.

[Macy]

So I wrote out like I had a birth plan for my last one, but I didn't get to do a lot of things in the plan because they're really particular, like with C sections for some reason.

[Host]

Was your last one a C section?

[Macy]

Yes, all of them have been. And so I just knew I was gonna do one because I already had two, like at this rate. And I have like pretty big babies. I'm like, I didn't want to try. And so I wrote a birth plan again and like, was very detailed and I got like the best nurse. Like she was so good. I was like obsessed with her. And I actually met her the week before at Michaela's birth. Cuz we gave birth at the same hospital.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Oh, that's.

[Macy]

So I met her and I was like, wait, yeah, are you working next week? And she's like, oh yeah, that's my day. Like you should request me. So I was like, perfect. So I feel like I made that connection and then I had her the day of my birth and she was so good. Like I got to do every single thing in my birth plan, which was like so amazing because I didn't get to do that last time.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

So I was so stoked. So I got to do like skin to skin in the operating room. Like I. I got help like filming the birth because I was like, it's hard for me because I don't do vaginal. Like I can't get things filmed. Then I never get actually see the birth. Like I would just love to see my baby be born even if I can't like, like watch it, like watch it later kind of thing. So I got extra filming people in there to help me out. Like it was so great. Like it was just like magical. Like my husband got to cut the cord and he didn't get to do that last time. So all the things I wanted, like, I got. So I felt like it was just, like, so magical. Like, I was so happy with everything.

[Host]

Oh, my gosh.

[Macy]

Yeah. So it was great.

[Host]

With your first. Did you want to have a C section or no?

[Macy]

Oh, my gosh. Not at all. Like, so my mom had all C sections, and then my oldest sister had one baby at the time, and she had a C section. So I kind of was, like, worried that I have to have one because my mom, like, didn't even dilate or anything. And then.

[Host]

Oh, wow.

[Macy]

Yeah. When I was pregnant, I didn't dilate either. And so they never said I had to get one. But then I was doing all the ultrasounds, and they're like, your baby's looking so big. And I was like, oh. So I was like, I got scared because I was also 20, and I didn't really know, like, how to advocate for myself.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Macy]

So they're like, he's looking really big. They told me he's going to be between, like, 10 and 11 pounds. I was like, okay. And news flash, he wasn't. But, like, they told me that. And so they're like, we recommend you doing a C section. They read the whole. Like, if you move forward with vaginal, these are the risks, and you have to sign this waiver that says we can break the collar bone. All this crap. So I was like, well, I'm not going to be like, yeah, go break the collarbone. Like, let me do the vaginal. So, like, I just decided to do the C section because of that. So I had a scheduled C section with my first, and my water broke and everything going into surgery, I think. So I was so stressed out that, like, my whole. My water broke and everything and then did the C section. Honestly, it was pretty crappy experience. Like, your first one, I feel like, is usually the scariest because you don't know what to expect. And then it got infected, too. It's like, five days later. Like, it. My incision opened, and it was just a nightmare. Like, the healing was horrible. Like, it was just bad. And that's why the second time, I was like, oh, I want to do a V back. Like, I want to do vaginal.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And then they told me, your baby's looking big again. And I was like, okay, well, last time you said that, like, the baby was. It was. He was still big. He was 8.

[Host]

15. Yeah.

[Macy]

But, like, not 10 or 11 pounds. So I was like, no, we're doing vaginal. But then she was like, breach. And then she was Flipping breach and the nut breach like, every other day. I don't know how she did it because then she ended up being almost 10 pounds, like, she was 9, 13, 22 inches. Oh, wow. So I was glad I did the C section with her. And so after that, and that C section was a great experience. I didn't get to do everything in the birth plan, but, like, everything went smooth. Like, having a C section with a partner this time because it's a single mom before with night and day. So I was like, I can do that again. So then I. Yeah, did the third one C section. It was even better. So I was really happy about it.

[Host]

That's good. I want to do C sections really bad. I have a lot of girlfriends that. I mean, I have a lot of friends that have given birth, but I just feel like with how my brain works, I think, like, scheduling a C section might.

[Macy]

And then you're like, I know I'm having a baby. I know it's coming out within 10 minutes of being on the OR table. Like, that's a nice part. I will say, this C section, the only thing that sucked was, like, I got the spinal. And for whatever reason, I don't know if it was, like, what they put in it. I got so nauseous, and I have, like, a throat phobia. So I was like, yeah, absolutely not. And so I was laying on the award table, and I was just looking at the light, being like, how am I going to sit here for an hour? Like, I was trying not to panic. You don't get, like, the panic feeling. And you're like, yeah. I'm like, oh, my gosh. Like, I'm going to say for an hour, and I feel so sick, and I feel miserable. I was, like, freaking out. And then, like, once the drugs hit again, I was like, we're. Again. You're like, we're good.

[Host]

We're in the clear.

[Macy]

I was like, put all the nausea stuff in there. Like, everything you got. Like, throw it in there because I'm dying.

[Host]

Maybe I'll just have to watch what you're. I've seen.

[Macy]

Then it was fine. I have videos I can show you.

[Host]

Okay.

[Macy]

If he doesn't freak you out.

[Host]

I've seen. No, I've seen. I've seen a vaginal birth. I saw vaginal birth in nursing school.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Host]

And I came home and I was like, taylor, we're. I can't have a child until I, like, forget what that looks like. Because that was, like, horrific.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Host]

And there's a reason why? Like our heads are placed this way so that we don't have the receiving end, we have the pushing end of the view. Because that was like not. I didn't like that.

[Macy]

No, it's gross. Well, I mean it's. I mean I'm like, I shouldn't say it's gross. It's like natural. It's like part of life. But I'm like just.

[Host]

No, it's a beautiful thing. But the, the anatomically. Yeah, it's not, it's not the prettiest thing.

[Macy]

No. I saw Michaela's kind of. She had natural. I filmed her birth for her. Oh my gosh. Yes. But I barely made it. She like literally I walk in her room because I was doing a non stress test at the same hospital. She's giving birth on the same day. It's like we just happen to be at the same time. And I walk into her room and like literally hear her like moaning because she did natural. And so I was like scared. I was like oh my gosh. Like is she good? Like so I'm setting up my camera and. And it wasn't working for some reason. All a. I hear her say the head's out. And I was like, oh. So like I grab her camera. Luckily it was there. I click video. So her camera could do video but mine would only work for photo. So I had both cameras like this and I was just like filming on one and like shooting photos on the other. We got it. Everything was great. Made it in time for the bird. Like it. We saw it come out, it was great. But I mean I didn't really get like a very close view luckily. Cuz I think I probably would have passed out but yeah, but like it was great. I was scared for her though. Like she looked like she's in a lot of pain. Like she was really like gray. I like was more worried about her than the baby. I'm like, is she like, is she good? Like I was looking at her face, I'm like, why is no one like I need like chariot her to her chair, like to her bed. Because she gave birth standing up like in the bathroom. So I was like someone like pick her up. Like I don't know. I was like scared because I'm like she's going to fall. Like I would have passed out giving birth standing up. So natural. She's crazy.

[Host]

And that's been so fun. Like you guys just like having.

[Macy]

Oh, it's been so fun. Like doing pregnancy together was so nice.

[Host]

I didn't even realize you were pregnant at Galentine's.

[Macy]

I know. We couldn't tell anyone.

[Host]

And Taylor was like, macy's pregnant. And I was like, he could tell. He knew. He was like, did you not see?

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Like, she had a little bit of a bump?

[Host]

Like, you could just tell. And I was like, oh, I wasn't. I didn't look. And I guess I didn't, like, think of it because, like, you guys don't drink, so I didn't, like. Yeah, it wasn't, like, a flag to me. Like, if one of my girlfriends was who drinks would have been like, yeah, I'm just having a poppy. Like, it would have. It would have been like, oh, yeah, interesting. But no, also, we were all in, like, flowy pajamas. But no, everyone left. And Taylor was like, so Macy's pregnant? And I was like, did she tell you that? He was like, he's good.

[Macy]

He's observant.

[Host]

He's so observant. And I was like, oh, now I'm a bad friend. I didn't notice.

[Macy]

No, not at all.

[Host]

And then you were posting the photos of yourself in the mirror with your belly.

[Macy]

I know. We liked it. That one when no one was looking. Like, like. But, like, we literally announced it, I think, like, less than a week later. Yeah, I think we had to. Yeah, I think it's only a few days later. We announced we had to wait because it had to be, like, all secretive because, like, People magazine wanted to do, like, something with each of us, and so we had to, like, hide it. But then we're like, okay, we're at the point where, like, people are gonna notice. Like, we need to, like, post. So, like, yeah, it was fun. I'm so surprised he noticed, actually. It's, like, very observant.

[Host]

He's very observant.

[Macy]

He probably, like, saw us take that picture.

[Host]

He's like, excuse me. No, he would have told me.

[Macy]

You would have told me.

[Host]

Okay, well, I'm excited to finally. I've been wanting to, like, sit and talk with you alone for, like, forever, and I love that we get to do it with the release of your book. I'm so excited for people to hear your story because I think there's so many different facets to your story, and I. I just adore you. And I think how. I think it's really cool, everything that you've been through, how you live your life now, and you're truly just like, a ball of, like, light. And I love you, but I want to know, like, what. What made you decide, like, now was the Time to write and release this book. Yeah.

[Macy]

I think it's because, like, I knew I always wanted to do it. And I feel like for the last 10 years, I was like, I'm gonna write a book. I just don't know when. And then I think the opportunity just kind of presented itself. Like, after the show came out, I had a book, a really great book agent reach out and was like, he heard you wanted to write a book. Like, your management told me, like, let's do this. And I was like, like, okay, like, I'm done. Because, like, I knew I always wanted to do it, so I'm like, okay, this must be, like, the time. And I'm actually so glad I waited because I almost started writing, like, five years ago. And granted, I did have a lot of things already written, so it was kind of like, writing the process. It took a year, but at the same time, it was like. It was already, like, partially written. It was kind of just, like, adding. Filling in the gaps and, like, putting the story together.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And so it just, like, ended up being the perfect time, I think, like, it was still hard because I was writing it while filming and, like, doing all the things. But, like, again, it's like the story's been writing itself for 10 years. So, like.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

Yeah. I just felt like it was the time, I guess. And I think everything just works out the way it's supposed to.

[Host]

So where does the title come from?

[Macy]

Oh, yes. I've had people ask me, because I think when it was released, someone's like, I don't like that title because I thought it was, like, being, like, snarky, like, told you so. Like. But that's not what it's supposed to be. It basically stems from, like, I'm the baby of the family. And so, like, I feel like my whole life, like, people would say, like, told you so. Like, told you not to date that guy. Like, told you not to do this. And, like, kind of, like. And I'm the type of person that has to kind of learn from my own mistakes. Like, I have to do things to know if it's wrong for me.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And so it just came from, like, everyone in my life saying, like, told you so. Like, you shouldn't have done that. You know, like, that's kind of what it means.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

From that, there was other titles I really wanted, but, like, we couldn't because, like, they were already used and stuff, too. Like, the title I originally was going to do was One Day, because that's, like, something me and my son's father used to say to each other, like, one day, like we'll do this one day that. And so it had like a lot of meaning to me. Yeah, but it was already. It's already a book, I guess, and it became a show, I think on Netflix. Oh, so we couldn't do that. But yeah, I think we have like signed editions that have like a one day inscription because, like, it's so sentimental to me. So there are certain passages in the book that you'll see. We'll start with like one day on purpose. So it's like mixed in there for a reason.

[Host]

Oh my gosh, that's so special. Well, I like that title.

[Macy]

Thank you.

[Host]

I like it a lot.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

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[Host]

I think we should just dive into it because I, I'm excited to just hear. Obviously, you know you've shared about your son's father, Eric on the show, which we got to see you kind of like open up about for the first time. But in the book you really like dive into it and about the both of you unexpectedly becoming pregnant at 19. Can you take me back to that day you found out you were pregnant?

[Macy]

Like, it gives, that day gives me ptsd. Like, literally, it was so rough. Yeah. Like, I remember it, like, clear as day. Like, I have so many core memories from back when I had like trauma. Like, why do we have so many core ones from trauma? And like, not just like the happy stuff, but anyways, I know I remember, like, it wasn't even that long after a missed period. I just like felt like I was pregnant. Like, I feel like I just could feel it and I don't really know why. Like, yeah, I think it was a week before a missed period. I was like, something feels off. Like, I just could feel it. Like I had the anxiety feeling that like, I couldn't explain what it was. And then, so I think it was only three days after my period was supposed to come. I went and like got a test. Like, one of my friends went with me to get one. So I was like, too embarrassed to go alone. So I was like, and also we're in Provo, Utah. Like, if someone sees me buying a pregnancy test, like, they're gonna report me to honor codes.

[Host]

I mean, I even feel that as like a adult, which sounds funny calling myself a grown adult, but like an adult, like married woman buying a pregnancy test. I'm like, this is such a vulnerable feeling. So I can't imagine, like you not being married in the society that you lived in in Utah. How like nerve wracking that was.

[Macy]

Oh my gosh. Especially Going to like. It was like the CVS in Provo, Utah, where it's like all the BYU students go. So, like, you had to be very discreet. So I think I used self checkout, thankfully. And then I went back to my apartment and she left. And I, like, took it alone. And I just, like, took like, I peed in a cup, dipped it in because I was like, I don't know how to pee on a stick. Like, I just did the cup thing left on the counter. And I just, like, laid in bed because I was like, I didn't. I didn't want to look. Like, I was so scared. And this is the first time I've ever taken a test. So it's like, yeah, I don't know. It was just like, crazy for me. So I lay down chilling. Eventually I was like, okay, I just need to check it. Like, I was really laying in the dark, pitch black. And I was like, I just need to get up and check. And I was like, part of me is like, there's no way, you know? And then I get up and check and I looked at it. I'm like, oh. Like, it's negative. But, like, I've never taken one before, so I couldn't really tell. So I look closer and I'm like, wait, it looks like there's like a really faint second line. So I was like, I don't know if the test comes with two faint lines and they get dark if you're pregnant. Like, I was kind of confused, but I was also like, oh, my gosh. Like, I was freaking out. Like, oh, my gosh, I'm pregnant. Like, but I, like, wasn't sure. So I, like, just, like, literally laid in the shower. Well, didn't live. I was sitting, sat in the shower, like, got my laptop out and, like, played music, because that's when I don't think it was, like, on the phone or something. And so had my Spotify on. And I just, like, sat in the shower and, like, cry in the dark for like an hour. And I had to get up and go to my sister's house. I like, brush my tears off and I'm like, okay, everything's fine. And then I just acted like that didn't happen and went about my week. And then, like, I was playing tennis. I was in the middle of tennis season.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And so I was playing, like, matches and stuff. And then one week from that test, I was like, hey, let me just take another one. Because if I am pregnant, it should be dark, I think. Yeah, I like, Googled it or something.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And I took the. The test because it came with two the next week, and it was, like, dark, and I was like, oh. I was like, yeah, I'm definitely knocked up, so that's great. And then I was kind of just, like, in denial. Like, I literally just, like, went about my week like nothing was happening. But then I just stopped going to class because I was like, well, I'm pregnant, so I'm screwed anyway. So, like, kind of just like, already started giving up my life. So I just, like, didn't go to class. I would nap, like, four hours a day and then go to, like, tennis practice and then go back and nap again and then hang out with my boyfriend. And that was pretty much it until.

[Host]

What do you think the biggest reason why you were. I mean, obviously, rightfully so, for you to be upset at 19, you're not trying to get pregnant, but do you feel like there was, like, a standout reason to, like, why you were like this? Like, can't be true.

[Macy]

I just didn't picture that for my life. Like, I. Like, if I didn't get pregnant so young, like, I don't think I would have had kids to, like, late 20s, because I think it always scared me to have kids. I'm the baby, the family. So I didn't have, like, younger siblings to, like.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

Grow up with. So I didn't know, like, what it would be like to be a mom. Like, thank gosh. My sister had my niece, like, when I was in college, so I kind of, like, got to babysit her and stuff. Or else I don't even know how to have been, like, a mom because I just didn't know I was doing. But, yeah, I think, yeah, just because, like, I had a. Like, the way I pictured my life was not getting pregnant at 19. It was like, oh, my gosh, like, I'm going to finish my tennis career. Maybe I'll try to play pro for a little bit and maybe I'll do an internship in New York or London or, like, somewhere cool. Like, I had, like, all these, like, ideas and stuff that I wanted to do. And, like, being a mom was not that part of that. So, like, that's why, like, I did not picture. And it's like, as a Mormon, I never pictured myself probably even having sex outside of marriage. And then also, like, getting pregnant outside of marriage. Like, that would have been, like, some scary dream that, like, I had, you know, like, not a real life situation.

[Host]

Yeah. When. When did you tell Eric?

[Macy]

I think I waited, like, until the second test, that was, like, dark. So I think that's when I told him. I think I told him, like, a couple or, like, maybe a day after that.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Okay.

[Macy]

And he took it, like, really well. Surprisingly, like, was really chill about it, which I'm like, hello. Like, this is my life. Like, my life's over.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Oh, wow.

[Macy]

But I do think it's in general, like, the responsibility usually falls in the woman in society. So I think, like, sometimes guys are more chill because, like, well, I'm not the one who's pregnant, you know?

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And he, like, was very supportive. He was like, okay. Like, we talked about getting married before this. Like, this is just like a bump in the road. Like, we'll get through this. We've always wanted to have kids anyways. Like, it's just coming sooner than expected. So he was, like, very, like, chill and, like, good about it. So, like, thank gosh. Or else I probably would have had, like, spiraled. But, like, it still wasn't easy. I was like, okay, but you don't understand. Like, my. Like, he could probably go still play baseball. Right. But, like, I can't keep my tennis career right now. Like, so I think that's what's hard is, like, we bear the responsibility more than men. And that's hard.

[Host]

Yeah. No, for sure. How. How long after that was his accident?

[Macy]

Oh, my gosh. Only like, a. Like a month and a half after I told him I was pregnant.

[Host]

Okay.

[Macy]

He passed away. It's like, that was like, like beginning of February when I told him. And then I think he passed away March 24th. So it's like a month and a half in between.

[Host]

Okay.

[Macy]

Which is crazy.

[Host]

You kind of talked about it in the show. You guys were in an argument.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Host]

Can you tell me a little bit about what was going on?

[Macy]

I read about it in the book, but I found out that he cheated on me. So, like, when I was in a tennis. I was at a tennis match in Colorado, I think, and that night he was texting me. I could tell he had been drinking. And we kind of had a rule, like, let's not drink, like, unless we're together, because, like, things happen. And, like, when you're drinking, like, you can make mistakes and it's just not smart. But so I could tell he was drinking because the way he was texting me was, like, very, like, lovey dovey, like, I love you. I love you. And I was like, yeah, like, sometimes we'll say that to each other, but not like that. Like, not, like, obsessively So I was like, he's, like, for sure drinking or something. So make a long story short, like, he got drunk, like, really drunk, like, blackout, apparently, and, like, slept with some random girl, like, just one nightstand type thing. And then obviously didn't tell me because. Yeah, like, he knew I'd break up with him because I think I told him the beginning of the relationship, like, you ever cheat on me and I'm out. Like, I'm not the type of person who's gonna stay because, like, and I get those that do. And, like, that's just case by case basis. But for me, I just know I wouldn't be able to get over it.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And so I told him that, like, in the beginning of the relationship. So I know that's, like, why he hid it, and I get it.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

But, yeah, so basically, I found that out to make a long story short. So, like, that's what we were, like, arguing about. I didn't want to talk about on the show because I didn't want to just be like, oh, he cheated. And, like, not give, like, context and, like, background. Because we also had a relationship that, like, when we weren't together, it almost felt like an open relationship. Like, I talk about in the book, but, like, I emotionally cheated, but, like, I didn't consider it cheating because, like, it wasn't physical and, like, I didn't, like, count it. Like, back when I was, like, a teenager.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And so, like, our relationship, like, was so great. Like, when we were together, like, we never fought. Like, we got along so well, but, like, we weren't together. It was kind of like. Like, almost like we were doing our own thing, but we both knew, like, we're not gonna cheat on each other kind of thing. And, like, obviously he crossed that line. But, like, yeah, when I look back, I'm like. It's like, I. I'm not saying I can give him no blame, but, like, we were kind of, you know, all over the place, so.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Host]

When he got in his accident, was he texting you?

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Host]

Okay.

[Macy]

And that's why I was, like, really hard because I feel like it was my fault in the beginning. I was like, oh, my gosh, it was my fault he was texting me because, like, like, we basically were on the phone FaceTiming, and I was like, we're done. Like, I was so mad, like, at him, like, when I found out, and then he texted me, like, a picture of us or something. And, like, I was like, why would you send this to me? Like, I was just being Like a brat, you know, whatever. Which rightfully so though, like, obviously, like, I was angry.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And then he said, like, this whole thing, like, I love you so much, like, I'll never forgive myself. Like, you deserve so much better. Just like obviously being super sweet. And I think I like responding again. I don't remember what I said at this point, but I have like. I think it's not the screenshot somewhere. Yeah. And then he sent like, his last message, like, was unfinished. Like, it was like. I still remember it was like go, period. Like space J. Like, it didn't like, make sense. It was an unfinished, like. Or like a typo.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And so I was like, that's weird because usually, like, if he had a typo, he would like, correct it and send like a text with like a little star asterisk or whatever. And he never did. So I was like, weird. Like, I like, was like, okay, that's strange. And then, yeah, like, he was obviously like sending that message when he like, hit into a car or a truck actually. So it's just crazy. Like, sometimes I may, like, say it out loud. I can't believe that, like, actually happened. We're looking back, like, it's been 10 years, but, like, when I go to the crush site in the show, like, you can see it gets very much, like, affects me to this day for sure.

[Host]

I was. I cried watching it just.

[Macy]

Oh, my gosh. It was.

[Host]

Because I literally can't imagine. And I know you and I can't imagine, like, how I'm getting teary eyed.

[Macy]

I know I'm like, do. I'm like, you're gonna make me teary eyed. I'm like looking at you, like, yeah, yeah.

[Host]

I can't. I can't imagine what that going back to it, but also just kind of like reliving all of that. How. How was that? Like, how did you get through the guilt? Because you're 19.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Host]

You're pregnant, you're hormonal, you're having a baby. You're like, your partner's no longer on this earth. Like, how. How did you kind of like work through that guilt? Because I can't. Yeah, I can't imagine. That was probably some heavy guilt.

[Macy]

Oh, yeah. It was so rough because I definitely blame myself, like, at least in the beginning of it, like, or probably most of my pregnancy, honestly. I think it took a while for me to fully, like, understand. Like, that's not my fault. Like, I didn't know he was driving, like, when I last saw him when I was talking on the phone. He was at home, so I had no idea that he, like, left. But I guess I think he went up to the canyon to clear his head, because originally he was supposed to be playing, like, basketball with his friends, and he's like, I have to go play basketball. I'm like, no, just talk to me really quick. It'll be quick, you know?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

So, like, he had plans, but he obviously. I don't even know if he texted to cancel them, but he just had to go, like, clear his head or something, and then that's when it happened. So I had no idea. So I can't. So looking back, I'm like, you can't blame yourself. You didn't know where he was, like. And even then, like, he was the one who chose to text. Like, I. You know, I didn't tell him to text me back, you know? And so I definitely cared that Guildo for, like, a long time. Like, it was really hard to get over it because I was like, oh, my gosh, if I wouldn't have sent the text or texted him back, like, he'd still be here, you know? And so that was really hard for me, and I feel like I felt so much guilt for the, like, the last things I said to him. I'm like, oh, my gosh. Like, those were, like, the last words I said to him, and that's, like, what he had when he died. And that, like, ate me alive for sure. Like, that hurt, like, probably more than anything. It was like, I wish I could take back what I said.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And I look back, and I'm like, well, like, I was angry, like, it's warranted, and, like, it's okay. But, like, I just obviously wish it was different, you know? But I can't do that anymore. And I think that's why I am the way I am now. Like, and even on the show, and everyone's like, you're offense writer. I'm like, no, it's because, like, I know how fragile life is, and, like, I don't want to have beef with anyone, and I don't want to be, like, in a bad place with people, because I know it could change in a second. And, like, I know a lot of people struggle with mental health. It's like, mike, what if. If we say hurtful things, and, like, who knows what they're gonna do? Like, I feel like I just am paranoid about that now. Like, since he passed, like, I definitely have a fear around, like, losing loved ones. Like, even my husband, like, he doesn't text me Back in the certain time frame, like, he's dead. Like, in my head, it's like my intrusive thoughts are like, he's gone. Like.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

I just, like, get so nervous for my kids. Like, I have a hard time leaving my kids or like, even, like, me and my husband, like, don't even go on trips together, like, ever, because it's like, it's really hard for me, like, leave them because. Yeah, it's hard to, like, put your trust in someone else. And also being like, well, what if I went and, like, something happened? Like, I have a lot of, like, what ifs now because of what happened with him.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

Which I probably need therapy for. But, like, I, like, will go to therapy and I'm like, I'm good. I'm fine. I don't need anything.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

That's such a.

[Host]

That's such a, like, great, like, kind of pulled back, third person point of view.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

That.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Of yourself.

[Host]

That. That is why, you know, you just are happy to be in the middle and don't, you know, don't kind of sway because that makes complete. When you put it that way, that literally makes complete sense.

[Macy]

Yeah. And I think I'm someone who also can see, like, both sides of a story and equation like that. That's. I'm neutral with, like, pretty much everything in my life. I'm, like, not super hot or cold or super passionate about one thing and not about the other. Like, I'm very neutral. And so I think no matter what, it would be hard for me to take any sides for that reason. And then on top of, like, what I've been through, it's like, there's bigger things in life than, you know, he said, she said, this drama, you know.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Host]

How. How was it raising Hudson one by yourself? But also. What, what. What did you tell him?

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

What.

[Host]

What were, like, those words? And kind of like explaining to him.

[Macy]

About his dad raising him. Luckily, I feel like I had a village, which is really nice. Not a lot of people had that luxury.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

So I'm super grateful for that. But my mom, like, was there for me and, like, it's funny now because, like, I feel like she treats him like it's like her kid. Like, that's how she sees him because she helped me, like, for the first, like, couple years of his life. But raising him was great. Like, I had the village, like, I had the people. Like, it was still hard even with that. Like, because I'd be waking up, going to classes and then going to tennis practice for four hours and Then going to more class and then coming home to him. Like, some nights I didn't have late classes so I could, like, do dinner and do, like, the nighttime routine. And some nights I couldn't. And, like, yeah, some nights my mom would keep him up so I could see him that day. And, like, but then I'd be doing homework, so I'd be going to bed at, like, 1 2am and then getting back up early again. So, like, it was, like, four hours of sleep a night. Almost, like, throughout college. Not because I was partying, because I was a mom. So, like, it was definitely, like, hard, but, like, the best. Like, I would never take it back for anything. Like, I. I just, like, who's meant to come into my life for a reason. And that's why, like, my book is dedicated to him. Because I'm like. I don't even know if I'd be here, like, without him. Like, genuinely, like, he is, like, everything, like, and still is. Like, I'm. He's just the cutest thing ever. So I was super grateful I had help with that. And then as far as, like, telling him about, like, his father, like, we told him. I'm trying to think he was 4. I think I talk about in the book a little bit, but basically, the way we did it is, like, I had seen a therapist who told me, like, the best time to tell their, like, your kid that they have a different dad or mom is, like, between three and five. Like, with, like, basically based on, like, psychology and different things like that.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

Because then they're old enough to, like, know and understand, but not, like, fully understand, but you kind of have to introduce it young or else they're gonna feel, like, resentment and, like, feel like you've been hiding things, you know, for sure. And so we told him, and he just, like, didn't really care. Like, I think it's because he was, like, young. Like, he's four, you know? So, like, we told him, like, hey, like, you see how Mommy's in the hospital with you, like, holding you, but, like, Daddy's not there. Like, it's because, like, you have a different daddy. But, like, he passed away. So, like, you have two dads and stuff. And he's like, okay, cool. Like, let me put my Legos. Like, he, like, didn't care, you know?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And. But then it's great because it's just normal for him. Like, he knows that he has Eric as his dad, and now he kind of understands when I say biology, because in the beginning, he was like, what like, and now he understands, like, you have like blood from that father and like blood from me. And then like, that's like your dad who's raising you, you know. So, yeah, he like kind of understands it now and like, he'll ask questions every once in a while, but like, not that much actually. I'm surprised. I think as he gets older, he'll have like more curiosity, but like, we'll still do things, like, so that he knows about his dad. Like we went to for his old high school, he was like the MVP pitcher, star pitcher of the team, and has like all these records there. So like they had like something in his honor this year. And so I was like, oh yeah, like we'll go. And it's like they honored him. And like, he saw the photos of him and saw he got to like hang out with the baseball players and the team he used to be on. Like, he like loved it and got to sit in the dugout with all like the 17 to 18 year old high school players and like, absolutely loved it. So stuff like that, that I'll be like, oh yeah, like this is, you know, like your other side, which is great. So then he sees his grandparents on that side too. So, like, and I think it's really healthy to have that because if not, like, they're gonna grow up, like, and be confused and, you know, and I feel like they could harbor resentment.

[Host]

So how old was Hudson when Jacob came into the picture?

[Macy]

So when I first met Jacob, he. Hudson was only seven months old.

[Host]

Okay.

[Macy]

But I didn't introduce them until Hudson was like 10 months old. I was very like, particular about like, who I brought around him. With good reason, I feel like, because I just didn't. Yeah. Like, I think it's because I got like, weird DMS from guys being like, oh my gosh, I love kids. And I'm like, okay, get away from me. Like, I feel like guys would try to use like a kid to be like, I'm so good with kids. Like, I love kids and my K. Get away. Like, yeah. Because I feel like they're kind of over compensating.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And I feel like at byu, like, because, like, you know, there is an honor code. I feel like some people who knew that I had a kid, some of the guys would be like, oh, like she's down, like dtf. Like, and I'm like, no. So like, I feel like that was also part of it where I was like, very protective of like, like who I let around my son. And honestly, even bringing him up, like around guys in the beginning, like, until I was like, comfortable with a guy, I'm like, I have no need to, like, talk about my son around them because I just like, wanted to protect that. And so I was pretty particular about it. And then I'm introduced him when they're like 10 months. But me and him were friends. Like, we weren't even dating. Like, it was like we were around each other for two months before he like, was in the picture. And so, yeah, I was like, okay, like, he's just a friend, you know, and it's like, it's fine. And then, then obviously it turned into more and he was like, so good with him. It was just like crazy. And like, this is. That's another reason why you don't want him around your kids. Because, like, you have a guy who's so good with your kid, you're gonna be like, you're gonna like him more, right?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

So I didn't want to do that for that reason as well. Because I'm like, I want to like a guy because I like him, not because he's good with my kid. And then if I like him and he is good with my kid, then like, great.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

But like, you kind of have to have two parts of the equation, you know?

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Macy]

So it's like tricky navigating it as like a mom. But it like worked out obviously, like, really well.

[Host]

How long did you guys date before you got married?

[Macy]

Yeah, it was like two years. So like two years unofficially. And like, officially dating is like a year and a half.

[Host]

Okay.

[Macy]

We were going like on dates and stuff. For two years.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

Which is like, long for Mormons.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Macy]

Like, that's pretty long.

[Host]

Were you like, apprehensive to, like, wanna take that next step in the relationship or was that just kind of the pace you guys were going at?

[Macy]

I feel like I was apprehensive to date him officially, like, because like, I. At the time when he wants, he's the one who like, I want to be official. And I was like, no. And I think it's because, like, I had boyfriends back to back relationships and I was finally getting my confidence back and I was like, I just want to be single for a little bit and see like, what I really want.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

So I dated him in like two other guys at the same time, kind of just like seeing what I wanted, what. Who I liked and stuff. And then I was like, he's literally like the best guy. Like, I can't, like, it was just like one of those Things where it's, like, so obvious, and I just, like, didn't want to commit.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And then once I did, it was, like, history, obviously, but.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And even getting married, I think we both, like, like, because you're from California, I feel like we're not Utah Mormons. I feel like, typically get married so fast. And, like, for us, I was like, I want to date someone longer. See, like, every season of them. Because, like, I had been through bad relationships. Like, I was an abusive relationship. And so I feel like I had learned from that. Like, I need to make sure I know this guy inside and out. Like, know what I'm getting myself into. Because it. I think it was only. It took, like, three to four months before I saw the red flags with my abuser. And so I was like, we need to date. Make sure this guy's, like, a good guy, that he's, like, really serious about being a father. And so. Yeah, so that was, like, part of the reason, too. And I feel like I just wasn't in, like, a huge rush. I wasn't, like, in a huge rush to be, like, one of those super, super young married girls, like, they are in Utah. But I still was young when I got married, though. And I think about it, I was 23. Like, that's, like, young.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Okay.

[Macy]

Yeah. Like, for Utah, that's, like, mid. Which is so funny. Like, people get married at, like, 19. 20. Like.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

So me having a baby at 20 and getting pregnant at 19 is, like, not out of the ordinary there. But for me, I was like, this is so psychotic. Like, this is bizarre. Yeah. Yeah.

[Host]

That's so. That's so interesting, like, the dynamic, because I think I talked about that with Michaela. Like, the California Mormon versus the.

[Macy]

Yes. It's different. Yeah, it's very. To me, it's very different.

[Host]

Yeah. And Jacob's also a California.

[Macy]

California.

[Host]

Okay.

[Macy]

Yeah. So that's also why I liked him a lot, too, because I'm, like, great. Like, I don't. It's funny because I live in Utah. I was like, I don't want to be stuck in Utah forever, which is ironic because I'm still there. But we both, like, eventually want to get to California or, like, have both, like, have a house in Utah. And in California, hopefully.

[Host]

I've heard, honestly, nothing but good things about Utah.

[Macy]

You guys should buy a house there.

[Host]

I honestly, the Arnold sisters have almost convinced me, you should buy a home.

[Macy]

I feel like everyone loves it there, actually. Yeah. Like, it's great. And I always try to convince people, too, because I want more friends. Like, yeah, come to Utah.

[Host]

I know. I need to. I need to make a trip out of it.

[Macy]

Get some swig.

[Host]

I've been telling I1 I really want to try that. But also I've been telling Jesse I need to get extensions.

[Macy]

Oh, yeah. Have her come do your hair or, like, you go there and get your hair done.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And then we'll hang out. Yeah, we should. That'd be so fun. I would love that.

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[Host]

He touched on it a little bit. And I kind of want to talk about it if you. If you're open to it. But you talked about your previous relationship before, Jacob being an abusive one.

[Macy]

Yes.

[Host]

And this is something that, in the book, you really, like, open up about for the first time, about sexual trauma, emotional abuse. And first of all, I want to applaud you and thank you for opening up about it, because I've read some of it, and you're very detailed and honest about what happened.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

I.

[Host]

One can imagine that was probably not easy for you to have to relive and write, but in the same breath, I'm so thankful you did, because, yeah.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

I feel like there's a lot of.

[Host]

When it comes to. When it comes to rape and when it comes to sexual abuse, like, we see it as this one thing, but, yeah, really, it's a whole section of other things also. And the average person, the average woman really doesn't realize it, that that may be what's going on. Unless there is people like you that are opening up and sharing their stories and be like, oh, wait, I actually went through something like that. Is that what, like, some. That's similar to what I went through.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Host]

So I just want to thank you for doing that, because I think it's so. Obviously, I have this podcast, so I think it's important to, like, share about mental health, but you just really dive into it, and I'm so proud of you for that. But I. I want to know, like, writing about those details again, was that hard for you to do?

[Macy]

Yeah, like, it's definitely very vulnerable, obviously. And it's, like, hard to be, like. Because I do get into, like, a lot of detail. And, like, I am an open book, which, yeah, I'm writing a book, but, like, I am an open book with a lot of things. But it's still. I think it's because it's like. Like, when I'm writing it, I'm almost writing it for myself. And, like, sometimes I forget other people are going to read it, which is also why it probably is good. Like, I forgot who I was talking to. They're like, I read your book. And I thought I was, like, reading a diary. And I'm like, that's kind of how it is. Because when I'm writing it, I'm thinking about, like, just the experience. I'm not even thinking about who's reading it. Like, I know it's going to help that person, but I'm also writing it for me. And because it's like, really freeing to be like, this is like, what happened. And like, I've talked about in the past, but I never go into like, major detail like I do in the book, but in my head too. It's like, it's the bigger picture here because, like, when I was going through, like, I didn't even know I was being abused, like, for like a while until, like, I literally eventually like, googled it and I was like, like, what was happening to me? Because I'm like, am I crazy? Like, I literally thought I was like, going crazy because, like, he would just tell me, like, you don't know what it's like to be like a girl, like a good girlfriend. Like, you've never been in a relationship before and all those things. Like, I like, thought it was like, crazy, like, am I like, making this up? Like, it just. Yeah, it was bizarre. And so I like, literally googled it because I was like, okay, like, I'm gonna google this because I don't know what's going on. And when I googled it, like, every single thing I saw was like, what I was experiencing. So I was like, okay.

[Host]

I feel like that's why the book comes across so well is like, you're not like, it comes from such an authentic place. And what you were saying about, like, you're writing in your diary, like, that's how it feels.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Host]

And I think that's why your book is gonna have like such a big impact on people, is because it is just. You're just authentically. You're not writing. You're not writing a book to write a book, to make money, to do all these things. You're genuinely like, writing it from a place of. This happened to me and I want to share my story.

[Macy]

It's like my passion project for years now.

[Host]

Yeah, I want to know a little bit more about you. Talk about feeling the need to stay silent because of the faith driven environment you were in. What is that in regards to your sexual abuse or what, what, what made you feel like you needed to stay silent?

[Macy]

Well, at the time I felt like I had to because he was blackmailing me. So he basically, like, anytime I try to break up with him or anything, he'd be like, well, you're screwed. Like, I'm telling honor code. And like, back then, honor code didn't have the same policies that they do today to protect, like, women. So back then it was like, since I was drinking and this happened to me, like, I would still get in trouble for drinking or like, God, I. It. He Would send photos and I mean like drinking or partying or whatever and like I would be in trouble with honor codes. Like that's kind of how I stayed in the relationship so long is because like anytime I tried to break up it was like that's what he would threaten. And I was like that means I'm losing my scholarship. Like if I didn't have a tennis scholarship and I wasn't there for tennis, I probably been like go ahead. Like I'll just go to different school if they kick me out. But like I had the scholarship and like my sister was my tennis coach. So it was like I would be disappointing and like embarrassing like her. Granted I did that anyways getting pregnant probably, but like whatever. So like yeah, so I think that was like kind of the reason why I stayed in it. And even then I didn't stay that long. Like I stayed as long as I felt like I could until I felt like I could break away. But like yeah, that's why I kept staying is because like every time I'd break up with him, which like it was probably once every other week. Yeah he would like threaten something. So it was like I didn't want to risk losing that because that's like what I worked my whole life for. So it's like having a dream taken away from you like overnight. I didn't want that to happen.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

You how did you get out of that relationship?

[Macy]

Basically he was having like all these like stomach issues. Honestly I think it was just anxiety manifesting in his stomach and he was like I'm gonna go home to figure out what it is. And he was from California.

[Host]

Got it.

[Macy]

And so the, literally the day he left is when I was like hey, like I think that maybe we should take a break like and like break up kind of thing. But I was like super nice. I was like overly nice. Like I just love you so much and I just need to focus on tennis and like like this and that, like we can maybe get back together when I'm done and like blah blah blah. But being very nice and he like cried and stuff cuz he's a freaking baby, but whatever. And, and then like I, yeah, I just like did that and I still kind of talked to him for a little bit cuz I just was scared he was going to like retaliate for sure. And also it's like is it called like Stockholm syndrome where you kind of like go back like you go back to your abuser cuz like that's what you think you deserve. And so I felt that way at that time too. So I still talk to him too because like, Like, I like, convinced myself he was like a good person still. Like, they gave him. Send him a message like, I just love you and you're so great and I'm gonna be so sad. I'm like, what the hell? Like, I was. I was like brainwashed, basically. And so it took a while to get, like, back to normal. I would say.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

At least a couple weeks. Like, I didn't go out with friends. It's like, I didn't want to and anything like that. And so.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

But I knew I wanted to be free from him.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And so I did that and I was free. But like, we still talked a little bit. And then like, I met Eric literally like two weeks after. So I did go from relationship to relationship.

[Host]

Okay.

[Macy]

Yeah. Like back to back.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Oh, wow. Was it.

[Host]

Is it like nerve wracking at all writing about this and knowing that that person is gonna, like, know that you're writing about them.

[Macy]

Oh, not him. I could care less. Like, he can go f himself if he's listening to this. I'm just kidding. No, but actually, like, I feel like I've been getting that question quite a bit. I'm like, honestly. No, like, like, yeah, I had to change kind of like his appearance a little bit in the book. So I took subtle jabs. Figured, yeah, that I enjoyed quite a bit because I had to say, like, Mike, he's tall. Then I like, said he. And then I made him like shorter than 6 foot. So in the book, because he was pretty tall. But it's funny because in the book I'm like. And he was very tall. And it's like all the power. He was five' ten or something. And I'm like, okay, well, that's like, decent for a guy. But like, I keep saying how tall he is. People are like, that's not that tall. Like, why you keep saying that? Yeah, it's because, yeah, I was taking subtle jabs cuz I had to. Cuz I think they were scared that, like, he would sue if he saw up. I was like, go ahead and let him. Like, I. I'm like, I'm not scared. Go ahead and try to sue me. He probably still work for your daddy. I'm like, I'm like, going off and I'm like, you work for your dad, you're not successful. I'm just kidding. But actually. And so I had to change certain things. So like, he. I probably can't get those certain items away. But like I changed his car to the car that he hated and stuff like that just because I was like, just for fun, you know. Cuz I had to change his sport and things like that.

[Host]

So when I was reading it, I figured that. That that was okay the case. So you caught on just because of. For those reasons.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Host]

To protect you in that. In any outcome. But I figured that. But I was, I was wondering if. Because I've. I've always wondered that like people have hurt me and done things to me that I'm like, don't. I feel like I don't really want to talk about because like, it's very obvious who it is. And I'm like, not that I don't want to. You know, their life could be ruined and.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Host]

But like, I feel like that's like a little bit of like a hard.

[Macy]

Like it is hard because like my.

[Host]

Degree of hurt is not your. You know.

[Macy]

But still part of you probably wants to expose it and like just be free and like say their name and. But then like part of me is like, I just don't like want the drama in my life. I don't.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

So I changed most people's names in the book, besides my family members. And then like my friend Taylor. And then I think that people at BYU like, that were really good to me. Like, I think I kept Tom Homo's name in. He was the athletic director. Like Vern and Phoe, which were like, they're real people. Like, that's their names and they're at byu like, so they were so great that I was like keeping their names in there.

[Host]

I love that.

[Macy]

You know, I love that.

[Host]

What. What do you think was like the turning point that helped you kind of begin to like talk about all of this again? Is it just. You're like, it's, it's time or.

[Macy]

Well, I feel like when I got married is when I started talking about it more because I think that's when I like kind of was happier. Maybe like I was like feeling good.

[Host]

And like, probably like felt safe.

[Macy]

Yeah, it felt safe. Yeah. And then so I did write a blog like years ago and talked a little bit about it, but like not nearly in depth as this, but. And then now I just like don't care. Like I feel like I'm at the point where like I want to tell this story because I know how many people it can help. And that's been my purpose. Even starting social media, like I started social media to tell my story story because I. No one was doing it back then, as far as, like, no one was being, like, I don't say authentic, but, like, it was, like, the perfect Instagram families and, like, perfectly cleaned house. And, like, now people are a lot more vulnerable online. But, like, that wasn't a thing when I was going through all my, like, trauma. And so I was like, I want to show people that, like, life isn't a fairy tale because, like, it can. Sure. Like, certain aspects can, but, like, no one's life is perfect, and people want someone to relate to. And I wanted to be the person to relate to because I didn't have that when I was going through it. So it's like, I'll be that person. So that was kind of, like, the purpose of even, like, starting my social media to begin with. And that's, like, honestly how I grew. My account was, like, by doing that. And so, yes, like, it's always been, like, my purpose. Even now, it's like, when I think, like, what am I doing? It's like, I go back to my purpose, and, like, that's what it is. Like, I want to help other women. Like, that's, like, my goal at the end of the day. So doing the book is the same thing. It's like, this was my purpose all along. I'm like, that's why it's so full circle for me. Like, getting my book deals. Probably my. My, like, my favorite and best accomplishment of everything, like, the show, nothing. It's the book. Like, that's what it is for me. It's like, it was. Yeah. Like, the first person I called was my dad, because he was the one who kind of, like, inspired me to write it and stuff, too. So it's just, like, so full circle. I'm like, I can't believe it's, like, happening. So writing all the dirty details, I'm like, that's just part of it. I'm like. And that's exciting because I had a lot of stories, like, you know, like.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Macy]

That people have never heard before. Like, I talk about, like, my first, like, sexual experiences, and sometimes when I think about that, I'm like, like, my parents are gonna read this. I, like, forget about that. Yeah. I'm like, great. That's what happened. Sorry.

[Host]

It's. It's so good. I love. I love if people are, like, willing to share it. And the stuff that you have been through, like, the fact that you're willing to share it with everyone is just. It's. It's honestly so special, and we need people like you in this world. To make things more approachable, more digestible.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Host]

And to feel less alone. As cliche as it is, like, it's the most over you saying. But I really feel that that that is what it boils down to is like, we're not. We're not the only ones that have gone through this. And it makes it so much less scary, like, hearing about it and, you know, reading what you've gone through, it's like, oh, I've. I've been through. Even if it's not the same thing, I've been through something similar or a family member has, and I can relate to them now.

[Macy]

Yes.

[Host]

In a new light.

[Macy]

Yes. And I think people don't realize it, too, if they, like, watch the show and stuff, and they sometimes think it's like, like, oh, the glitz, the glamour, the brand deals. But I'm like, no, but, like, yeah, well, yes, great. But like, also, like, a lot of us, like, have stories that are, like, so much deeper than that.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And you just don't get to see them.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And so now I'm, like, excited, because I will say people don't see a lot of what.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Macy]

My story is in the show. Like, it's not drama, so it tends to take the back burner here, but it's just. Okay. But that's why I had the book, because then I can share the whole story. And I'm, like, super grateful for that.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Macy]

Yeah.

[Host]

I love it. It's special. I want to know what. What's been, like, the most helpful for you, kind of, honestly, in recovery from? I think you were experiencing a lot of trauma for a good chunk of your life there. What's kind of helped you through? Has it been, like, family therapy? What is. What has it been for you, Honestly?

[Macy]

A mixture of all of it. I would say, like, feeling safe. Safe. Like, having a partner that I feel safe with therapy, for sure. I actually haven't done a ton of therapy, believe it or not. Like, but I probably need it because I'll start and I'll be like, yeah, I don't like that. I'm good. Like, Or I'll get through something, work through something. I'm like, I did it, and I have, like, so much more to work through. And then I'm like, I'm good.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

Because I did do EMDR for, like, my sexual abuse and stuff, but I only. I only did it for, like, one specific event, and there's probably, like, 10 more events I need to do it for. And so after it took, like, four weeks to get through one event. I was like, yeah, like, if I do this for the year, I'm gonna be chronically depressed. Like, So I was like, I'm good. And. But, like. But then it still affects you, right? It's like, I still have things that affect me to this day, and it's been over 10 years, so it's like, I know I need to go, like. And I actually still never have worked through, like, Eric's death and therapy. Like, I still haven't. And I think it's because it's still hard, and I just, like, avoid it because, like, I just want to be happy and, like, have fun, and I don't want to be, like, sad. And I think therapy forces you to work through it, which is, like, it's good in the long run because it's like, you're digging deeper to where you don't have things trigger you and affect you.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

So I need to go back for sure. But we'll see if I get there this year. Next.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Host]

I loved. I loved EMDR therapy. I did it for nursing, for, like, all of my covet stuff, and it worked wonders for me. But it is. It is intense. It's very intense. Taylor tried it, and he did not.

[Macy]

Not.

[Host]

He did not like it.

[Macy]

Did he feel, like. Did he feel, like, depressed for a couple days after? Because that's how I felt. I just felt, like, so blah the next, like, two days.

[Host]

I think it's hard, too, because I think for obviously women, it tends to be easier for us to be like, and this and this and this and this, and we're just, like, spilling everything. And Taylor specifically, someone who is, like, very closed off, and it does take him and him feeling, like, in a safe environment to kind of, like, open up. And it was. I think, because it was so intense, he was like, oh. But, yeah, he loves talk therapy. Our therapist is, like, the best. We actually have the same. We see the same, like, talk therapist. But I would. I would encourage you to get back into it once I know I need.

[Macy]

To find someone that I truly like. Enjoy.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And my last therapist was nice, but I think I need to find someone who I feel more connected. Connected to.

[Host]

It's a. It's honestly, it is a relationship. Like, that's what I always tell people is people are like, I've tried, like, multiple therapists. I'm like, honestly, like, it's like dating.

[Macy]

You gotta find your person.

[Host]

Yeah. You gotta just find someone that you mesh with, that maybe, like, has the same, like, views as you or Religion as you like that I feel like is super helpful.

[Macy]

Yeah. Did you, do you do it virtual or do you do it in person?

[Host]

In person. Well also if we're not home we'll do it over the phone. But he like 15 minutes from us. So.

[Macy]

Okay. I was just curious cuz I'm like, I wonder if like if there'd be a difference for me. Cuz I did do it in person.

[Host]

The past I think, I think also doing it over the phone.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Well there's so.

[Host]

There's so many different like virtual things. So for anyone listening there's a lot of virtual therapy you can do. But I also love if I'm traveling, it's almost like scheduling a meeting.

[Macy]

Yes.

[Host]

And I just like put my headphones in and I go outside and walk and that way I'm just like it, it gives me like time for my brain to reset. And I will always say the lead up to the therapy session is not fun. And then after I'm like okay, yeah, I feel a little lighter. Remember it's the same like anticipating, anticipating. And then you're like okay, I feel better.

[Macy]

So. Yeah.

[Host]

And I always say mental health is. Once you start to struggle with it and you finally start to like open up. Like everything that's going on, it's always going to be like a battle. It's not like a one and done thing.

[Macy]

Yes.

[Host]

But the process to get to healing and then when something in life happens, you have those tools and you're equipped to like.

[Macy]

Yes. No, I completely agree. I completely agree. I just need to find my person. I think. I know I'm like, I'm sorry. Searching. That's gonna go on my to do list.

[Host]

I know. I'd love to hear advice for a woman out there that maybe feels too afraid to speak up. Maybe is unsure what exactly is going on in the relationship that they're in. Just advice that you would give to them.

[Macy]

I would say one thing that I wish I would have done differently is like I talk about in the book but like I had a gut feeling early on in the relationship before we were even like official. And I didn't listen to it. Like my body was literally like telling me. And I think that like our bodies are really smart even if we don't see like the red flags yet. Like I think our bodies can sometimes tell us. And then my body was like, I did not want to go see him one day. Like I just like I don't wanna, I don't know what it is. Like I felt like physically Sick. Like, I did not want to go out, and I wasn't sick, you know?

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And I just, like, almost like I had, like, a flu. Like, I was just like, I do not want to be around him. Mom's like, why? And I'm like, I don't know. Like, I just don't know why. And I ended up going. And then obviously we, like, pursued the relationship. Right. But, like, looking back, I'm like, that was like, my first sign that I completely ignored. And, like. Yeah, but sometimes you don't realize, like, there. Your body can tell you things. I think. Trust your gut, like, your intuition. Like. Yeah. If something doesn't sound right or it's too good to be true, it probably is.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And those were the things. I was, like, young, so I was like, oh, like, no big deal. And, like, this and that, you know?

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Macy]

Even stories like him talking about his ex girlfriend, like, and then she did this and that. And I'm like, looking back, I'm like, red flag, red flag, red flag. But, like, I just didn't see at the time because I was like, oh, she must have been the crazy one. Right? Because, like, that's like, what they portray it as. And, like, you're young and you don't understand. So I'd say, like, any signs of that, like, any jealousy, possessiveness early in the relationship where it doesn't make sense yet. Yeah, Red flag bag. Like, it's not, like, cute because he's being protective. Like, trust me, it's gonna get worse. So.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Macy]

Love bombing. Too big on the love bombing. And I was love bombed like crazy in the beginning, but I didn't know what that was.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Macy]

So it's like, things like that.

[Host]

I know. I feel like that's a new. That's a new word.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

That.

[Macy]

Where it was not around at the time.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

I just figured out what that was three years ago. And I was like, that happened to me.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

I'd get bouquets of flowers when I didn't even hardly know him. Like, things like buying me Tiffany's necklaces. And I knew him like a month. Like, stuff like that where I was like, this is so charming. And I was like Prince Charming. And, like, looking back, I'm like, no, he was the Dev disguise.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Macy]

So, like, I would always just say, like, look out for the red flags. Trust your gut and your intuition, cuz. Probably right.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Macy]

Who.

[Host]

I forgot to ask this earlier. Who was the first person you told about your abuse?

[Macy]

Oh, man.

[Host]

And how long after was it?

[Macy]

It was a while. I Think my friends were catching on a little bit.

[Host]

Okay.

[Macy]

And like my tennis friends, and this is why, because like on the tennis court I was a psychopath. Like pretty much. Like I was like hitting myself with my racket. Like my legs were black and blue. Like, like, oh wow, like so bad. I remember one time I got so mad I hit my. I went to hit my shoe with my racket and like as hard as I can hit my ankle bone and it was so swollen. I told them that I sprained my ankle. And in reality I like did it to myself. And I was like embarrassed. I was like, I better walk this off, this is embarrassing. So I was like technically like self harming in a way I didn't really realize was self harm back then. Cuz I was just like, I'm just angry playing tennis. But like I took out all my anger and aggression on the tennis court.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And so my friends were like, like, you're different, like something's wrong with you. And I was like, that's kind of when I was like, yeah, like things aren't like great, but I didn't really open up about it.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And they were kind of like, I think you guys like need to split kind of thing. And I was like. And I already knew I wanted to, but I just didn't. I couldn't tell them, like, hey, I'm being like trapped. Like I'm being blackmailed. Like I didn't do that, you know. But I think people started seeing it, but I didn't really open up about it, I think until I opened up about it a little bit to Eric being like, hey, this was kind of happening behind the scenes, but not like into detail. I don't think I really got into detail until I got married. Honestly. I told my parents a little bit about it when I got pregnant and came home.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

But not nowhere near the details of what actually happened. Yeah, I just would basically tell him like, you can't say his name because my parents said his name. When I was pregnant, I'd have vivid dreams of him. Like I had nightmares my whole pregnancy about him. I didn't really realize like what was happening to me. But it's just because like I was so abused and I had no idea kind of thing. Like I kind of knew, but I didn't know like to the extent of like how traumatizing it was for me until like I got older, my brain developed and I was like, wow, that was like really bad. So yeah, it was crazy.

[Host]

Did you do talk therapy for it at All. Or is it just something that you and Jacob kind of like you just kind of. Because I'm sure that probably had some effects on your marriage to a degree.

[Macy]

Oh, yeah. My sexual relationship struggled a lot in the beginning, I would say. And I didn't. I didn't understand it because my sexual relationship with Eric was fine, but I didn't really realize this because I was pretty much drinking every time we did sexual things. So, like, I didn't care. Right. And it took until I got married to understand that I, like, had a lot of sexual trauma that didn't. Didn't understand because I didn't understand it. I was like, why do I not want to be touched? Like, why do I not like? And so my husband. It was hard for him, too, because he's like, are you, like, attracted to me? Like, so.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Macy]

Because I never talked about. I would never tell him. And I had a really hard time opening up in my marriage at all about, like, abuse and trauma because it's, like, vulnerable sometimes. Like, this happened to me, and it, like, hurts me, you know? And I don't know why that felt so vulnerable to me. So I think it took a full year into our marriage where I was like, this is why. Yeah, that, like, why, like, I'm attracted to you. I love you. I just, like, I sometimes get triggered by things, and I don't know why. And even then, I didn't, like, because I've never really done a lot of therapy. I haven't really done therapy. And so I was like. I didn't even know, like, I was being triggered. I was just like, why do I, like. Because I'd always, like, go like this. Like, we start, like, making out or whatever. And I don't know why I would, like, be, like, literally protecting myself. Myself.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

Not really realizing what I was doing.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And so, like. And then I started going to therapy, like, after that.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And that definitely helped. And I think with time, it's also helped in being more comfortable with your partner. Because, yeah, we didn't have sex before marriage, me and my husband, because, like, I was trying to be a good Mormon. So, yeah, we waited. And so I think, like, all of a sudden going from not doing anything to, like, now I can do whatever you want to be. Like, it's like, kind of. Yeah, it's just, like. I don't say aggressive because it's an aggressive, but it's kind of different. Right. Like, and so I think, like, it was just a lot, and I didn't realize. Realize it because I was like, well, I can't wait to get married. I can't wait to get back to my old self. Right. But then we got married and I was like, whoa. Like, this is different, you know? And so I think, like, once I started going to therapy and then, like, once you're more comfortable with your partner sexually, then, like, I started to, like, you know, progress, obviously, in that relationship.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

But it was hard. Like, I did the EMDR and, like, different things for it. And there's. To this day, I'll get triggered by things like, sexually and emotionally, too. Like, if my husband. He never raises his voice at me, but, like, if he ever even gets a tone, I feel like probably because from my past relationship, I am such a. I'll be like, don't you dare talk to me like that.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And he's, like, such an angel, too. So I feel bad, but, like, he just knows, like, if he gets, like, loud even with the kids, and, like, hey, don't touch that. Or, like, this and that. I'm like, oh, like. Like, it irks me because I think it stems from, like, my abuse. Because, like, sometimes I, like, don't know what it is. I'm like, just, like, trying to be a good dad, and I'm like, you're driving me nice. So, like, it's just a lot of it stems from the past. So therapy has definitely helped, but I need more of it, for sure.

[Host]

I want to know what advice you would give to someone that is. Wants to share their story, wants to speak up, but is feeling too afraid to, or that maybe what they've been through isn't valid, quote, unquote, to say enough.

[Macy]

Well, I think it's always valid because I think no matter what, you're always gonna have someone to relate to. Even if maybe your story isn't as intense as, like, mine or someone else's. It' like, everyone has a valid story. Like, even look at Taylor on the show. Like, what she's going through in her relationship wasn't. It's like, different, right? But, like, it still affects her so much emotionally. It's like, that's valid. And that's valid to tell your story about it, because I guarantee you there's someone who can relate to you. I guarantee you there's been a girl who's walked in your shoes. So say it's always valid. I feel like my advice on that is, like, when you're ready because you do it too soon, it's going to hurt and it's going to not feel maybe Authentic. I feel like when you feel like it's time and you're like, I want to share this, just do it and don't even think about it it because I guarantee it's going to help so many people. Like, I almost didn't share like when I wrote my blog originally I wasn't planning on sharing that I even had an abusive relationship. None of that. Cuz I was like scared.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Macy]

And I was also like, it's so vulnerable.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Macy]

But then something inside me was like, you have to share this. Like, and I didn't know what it was cuz I was like not planning on it. And then once I did like the amount and I almost shared a very surface level version of it, the amount of messages I got from other women, like that's when I saw like, oh, there was a reason why I needed to share this. I think when you realize the impact of what you're going to tell is bigger than, than being scared, it's like so worth it. And if you don't feel like you want to share those things, you don't have to like, you don't have to do it, you know, but like you feel like it's going to make you feel free and it's going to help other people, then do it. Like just don't even think, just do it.

[Host]

Because I would even say like write it down too. Like I'm sure there was so much healing and writing. Like I always feel like I'm not a good. Even though I do this for a living, I'm not a good speaker sometimes when it comes to like sharing something that I've been through or my emotions and I just like have to write it down and then I can write it and read it and I'm like, like, oh, that's like, it's less scary than it sounded in my head. And like, yeah, it's just like it gives you an outlet to be able to like let it out.

[Macy]

It's. Yeah, it's healing. Like I wrote through my whole pregnancy because my dad gave me that journal and I was like, I don't ever like to write in a journal. But I feel like it was therapeutic for me because it was someone to talk to that was like, well, it was a page. But like it was not someone who's gonna like bug me or give me advice. Like, I don't want advice, just want to like tell someone something, you know. And that was very helpful because it also helped me write my book, the whole journal. I used it. So I feel like, it's very freeing if you don't feel like publicly sharing it. Yeah. Like, writing it. I think it's, like, great, great advice. Like, I need to keep writing in my journal because I stop. When I'm happy, I stop writing.

[Host]

Yeah, I know. It's funny. It's funny how that happens.

[Macy]

Yeah. Right.

[Host]

Well, I love you and I am just so excited for you and all that this book is going to bring and all the help it's going to bring, but I'm just. I'm proud of you. I think you taking these steps is so amazing, and not that you needed to hear it, but just as your friend, I'm just. I'm just so excited for you.

[Macy]

Thanks so much. I'm so excited for when to read it and scared.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

We'll leave a link.

[Host]

We'll leave a link.

[Macy]

Yes. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.