Stack Overflow Podcast – Episode #70 (April 19, 2011)

Hosts: Joel Spolsky & Jeff Atwood

Episode Overview

In this vibrant on-the-road episode, Joel and Jeff dive into the whirlwind of recent Stack Overflow developments. Broadcasting from Austin, Texas during Dev Days, they unpack the launch of new products (like Kiln and Stack Overflow Careers), discuss the rapidly diversifying Stack Exchange ecosystem (including unexpected breakout sites), and debate the perennial conundrum of reliable Wi-Fi at tech conferences. The tone is witty, candid, and hands-on, as both hosts share behind-the-scenes insights into product evolution, community challenges, and the real-life realities of running developer-focused platforms.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Austin as a Tech Hub & Dev Days

• Why Austin? Joel highlights Austin's rich tech history and culture, home to giants like Dell and IBM, dubbing the direct Austin-San Jose flight the “Nerd Bird.”

  “Austin's a big tech city... This has sort of become a pretty major tech center.” – Joel Spolsky (01:27)

• Dev Days Recap: The hosts recall the hectic lead-up and successes at recent developer events, made more complex by launching multiple new products at the same time.

  “It was kind of hysteria leading up to that because there are basically four new products that all had to be ready for dev days.” – Joel Spolsky (02:54)

2. New Products from Fog Creek/Stack Overflow

• Kiln:

  • A hosted Mercurial-based version control and code review product.
  • The logo, chosen via community contest, features a “crazy dodo bird,” echoing FogBUGZ’s branding.

    “It's a crazy dodo bird. He's sort of insane. Yeah.” – Joel (04:00)

• Fog Creek Training Series:

  • Corporate training videos in beta; official release planned for Jan 1.

    “There's a website for that… and that's also sort of in beta in the sense that... they're still in post production.” – Joel (03:05)

• Stack Overflow Careers:

  • Introduced as a better developer recruitment system, leveraging Stack Overflow’s existing talent.
  • CVs (not just resumes) can be created, with public/private options and “vanity URLs.”

    “CV is the more European term for resume. But there's a reason we didn't use the word resume. …It’s more open ended.” – Jeff (27:23, 27:46)

3. Stack Exchange Explosion & Community Diversity

• Rapid Site Growth:

  • Open beta allows communities of all interests. Notable sites include:
    • Epic Advice (epicadvice.com): A World of Warcraft Q&A site, growing faster than expected.

      “The number one is called Epic Advice... it's a World of Warcraft Stack Exchange thingamajiggy.” – Joel (06:11)

    • Answers.OnStartups.com: For entrepreneur/startup questions.

      “...a ridiculously successful Stack Exchange where people are asking questions about startups.” – Joel (06:54)

    • Moms4Mom: Parenting Q&A; feedback from non-geek users is reshaping usability concerns.

• Accessibility & Usability:

  • OpenID integration has improved; most new users now just click the Google button, making login seamless for broader audiences, including non-programmers.

    “Google came in really late to the OpenID party, but… it's like 56% of all users use Google. Basically you just click the giant Google button and you're done.” – Jeff (09:35)

4. Competition, Community-Building, and Site Proliferation

• Competition Among Stack Exchange Sites:

  • Hosts discuss overlapping themes (e.g., multiple SQL sites), and how only active, well-populated communities will thrive.

    “It's not about having the topic. ...You somehow have the wherewithal to get a group of people to all pile into a website and start answering questions.” – Joel (12:28)

• Community Doesn't Build Itself:

  • The “platform doesn't magically create community”; driving sustained participation is still hard work.

    “Stack Exchange does not magically create community. That's still hard work.” – Jeff (16:45)

• Niche/Small Support Sites:

  • Even a site run by a single knowledgeable tech support agent can succeed for focused product Q&A.

    “One really knowledgeable one... People can ask questions and get an answer within 24 hours... that's already more valuable than using phpb.” – Joel (20:19)

5. Stack Overflow Careers & CVs: A New Approach to Tech Hiring

• Motivation & Philosophy:

  • Traditional resumes fail to capture developer abilities. Stack Overflow’s new model leverages community contributions, profiles, and reputation to connect developers with “companies that care.”

    “You can tell a lot more about a person than you can from a traditional resume.” – Joel (24:38)

• How It Works:

  • Programmers create public/private CVs (resumes), with vanity URLs.
  • Option to be discoverable by employers, flipping the script– companies pursue programmers.

    “Smart companies should be pursuing good programmers and not really the other way around.” – Jeff (30:11)

• Why Charge Developers?

  • $29/year fee for job-seeking CVs is meant to reduce noise (less spam, more serious candidates); employers pay much more on their side.

    “We have to promise [employers] is that these are real candidates... not just kind of entertaining offers... they're actually kind of serious.” – Joel (39:59) “One of the reasons we're charging money is honestly just to have a barrier to say you're either serious or you're not serious.” – Jeff (41:19)

• Refund Policy & Fairness:

  • Generous 90-day refund policy, to ensure no one feels trapped or unsatisfied.

    “If you decide, you know what, I don't like this. No questions asked, instant refund, no problem whatsoever...” – Jeff (45:59)

• Recruiters:

  • Only allow “retained search” recruiters (who work exclusively for one employer and disclose the company); not interested in contingency recruiters or resume spam.

    “We're not interested in this kind of thing happening... we're going to require [recruiters] to reveal the name of the company...” – Joel (38:54)

• Privacy Considerations:

  • Employers you listed as past/current will not see your profile by default; granular public/private controls for all CV content.

    “Everything's private by default 100% of the time. You can opt in to non privacy or making it public.” – Jeff (53:04)

6. Open Source, Scale, and Product Philosophy

• Stack Exchange as a PHPBB Alternative:
  • The goal: replace phpBB as the default Q&A/discussion forum; open access and customization foster innovation.

    “I hate PHPV so much that I just want to destroy it.” – Jeff (12:30)

• Scale and Small Sites:
  • Low-traffic “support” sites can thrive with just a handful of experts, using Stack Exchange as a dynamic knowledge base.

    “We're posting our own questions and answers in there... for Google to find and it can be edited and it's sort of better than a wiki in so many ways.” – Joel (18:27)

• Product Evolution:
  • Iterative approach– launch quickly, react to feedback, and course-correct as needed.

    “We're being poster children here for the benefits of shipping early and then adjusting course rapidly.” – Joel (56:03)

7. Wi-Fi Nightmares at Tech Conferences

• Tech Conference Wi-Fi:
  • Recounting the infamous Boston Dev Days DHCP failure and the universal struggle of making Wi-Fi work for hundreds of geeks.

    “Suddenly the 254th person or something tried to log on and the DHCP server fell down because it just didn't have a large enough pool of IP addresses.” – Joel (59:18)

• The Stack Overflow Network as a Knowledge Repository:
  • Joel points to a canonical Server Fault answer on providing decent Wi-Fi at conferences (Question #72767), demonstrating the community’s depth and resourcefulness.

    “It is a friggin awesome answer. ...the canonical place... That's the great thing about the Stack Overflow Server Fault model.” – Joel (61:13)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Austin’s Tech Scene:
  “The flight... from Austin to San Jose is called the Nerd Bird.” – Joel (01:38)
• On Logo Contests:
  “10 minutes before the end… I was like, 'Shut this down. We're not using any of those... over my dead body.'” – Joel (04:25)
• On Community:
  “Stack Exchange does not magically create community. That’s still hard work.” – Jeff (16:45)
• On Careers/Recruiting:
  “If you have a list of people on Stack Overflow... you can go and look at their profiles... you can tell a lot more about a person than you can from a traditional resume.” – Joel (24:38)
• On Privacy:
  “Everything’s private by default 100% of the time. You can opt in to non privacy or making it public.” – Jeff (53:04)
• On Refunds and Customer Service:
  “Much rather have a happy person not paying you than an angry person who has paid you.” – Jeff (46:54)
• On Product Iteration:
  “There’s only so much thinking... and coding you can do. You gotta ship it and then see what happens and then adjust rapidly.” – Jeff (56:45)
• On Conference Wi-Fi:
  “You get to one of these venues and you find a person that knows nothing about computers and they are in charge of the Wi-Fi…” – Joel (59:25)

Timed Highlights (Timestamps in MM:SS)

• 01:27 – Austin’s status as a tech hub
• 02:20 – Dev Days product rollouts
• 03:02 – Overview of Kiln and Training Series launches
• 03:55 – Kiln logo contest adventures
• 05:37 – Stack Exchange open beta and site diversity
• 06:11 – Epic Advice (World of Warcraft) surges in popularity
• 09:35 – Google OpenID dominates Stack Overflow logins
• 16:45 – “Stack Exchange does not magically create community”
• 20:19 – Support sites can work with a single expert
• 24:38 – Resumes versus Stack Overflow reputations
• 27:23 – Launch of Stack Overflow Careers CVs
• 30:11 – Smart companies should pursue programmers
• 39:59 – Why developers are charged for CVs
• 45:59 – 90-day, no-questions-asked refund policy
• 59:18 – Wi-Fi failures at Boston Dev Days
• 61:13 – Server Fault becomes the expert resource on conference Wi-Fi

Episode Tone & Style

Conversational, candid, and laced with infectious geek pride, Joel and Jeff blend humor with pragmatism. Their playful ribbing (especially around logo design, support forums, and customer policies) makes the episode engaging, while their honest reflections on building products and communities will resonate with builders everywhere.

Final Thoughts

This episode captures a pivotal moment in Stack Overflow’s evolution, brimming with transparency about mistakes, product changes, and community lessons learned. The hosts’ commitment to openness, user empowerment, and continual iteration shines throughout. Whether you’re a developer, a product manager, or just fascinated by how online communities work, the candid discussions in this episode offer a wealth of insight, practical advice, and a few good laughs.

For more details and links to discussed resources, visit blog.stackoverflow.com.