A Fresh Look at Budgeting Basics (SB1648)

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Stacking Benjamins Show – "A Fresh Look at Budgeting Basics (SB1648)"

Release Date: February 24, 2025

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Introduction

In episode SB1648 of The Stacking Benjamins Show, hosts Joe Saul-Sehy and Sean "OG" Morgan delve into the fundamentals of budgeting, aiming to demystify the process and make financial planning accessible and enjoyable for listeners. Joined by budget coaches Kristen Wade and Sean Morgan, the episode provides actionable insights into creating and maintaining a healthy budget.

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Guest Introductions and Background

00:42 – 02:19

The episode begins with the hosts introducing Kristen Wade and Sean Morgan, both seasoned budget coaches. Kristen shares her journey from nursing to financial coaching, emphasizing the importance of budgeting in achieving financial goals. Sean discusses his early struggles as a teacher, highlighting how budgeting became essential for managing a limited income.

Sean Morgan [11:02]: "I started out my career as a teacher. You can't survive without a budget on half of a first-year teacher salary."

Kristen Wade [11:32]: "When I became a nurse, I knew I would be making more money than ever and I didn't want to be keeping up with the Joneses. Budgeting helped me reach my goals with a plan for my money."

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The Importance of Tracking Expenses

10:42 – 14:09

The discussion emphasizes that the first step to effective budgeting is tracking where every dollar is spent. Kristen and Sean agree that understanding spending habits without judgment is crucial for financial health.

Kristen Wade [12:01]: "Start by observing what your spending is before you control it. Approach it from a place of non-judgment."

Sean Morgan [12:26]: "You don't know where your money's going until you've tracked it. The first step is to track."

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Methods of Tracking: Apps vs. Manual

16:57 – 21:05

Kristen and Sean share their preferred methods for tracking expenses, discussing the pros and cons of using budgeting apps versus manual tracking (e.g., writing expenses down or using spreadsheets).

Sean Morgan [16:57]: "I use both writing it down and an app. Manually inputting helps me think through my spending."

Kristen Wade [17:44]: "I use budgeting apps that import transactions directly, which helps catch fraud and track spending in real-time."

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Overcoming Budgeting Challenges

24:59 – 29:04

The guests discuss common challenges in maintaining a budget, such as life changes and loss of motivation. They advocate for accountability and habit-stacking as strategies to stay on track.

Kristen Wade [25:49]: "Give yourself a lot of grace. It's a lifelong skill, and support from others is key."

Sean Morgan [26:37]: "Use habit stacking to build momentum. Pair budgeting with existing habits to make it easier."

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Empowering Through Budgeting

29:04 – 33:00

Budgeting is portrayed not just as a restrictive tool, but as a means to gain financial freedom and empower personal choices. Kristen shares a success story of a client who reallocated funds to leave a high-paying but unfulfilling job.

Kristen Wade [29:37]: "When you budget, you realize what you can afford and spend with intention, fueling your financial goals."

Sean Morgan [32:25]: "Understanding your financial needs allows you to pursue hobbies or side businesses without money stress."

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Real-World Application: Real Estate Insights

39:55 – 52:19

The episode transitions into a discussion on the housing market, prompted by a Wall Street Journal headline about increased home delistings. The hosts and guests explore strategies for selling properties in a sluggish market, emphasizing the importance of effective marketing and professional assistance.

Joe Saul-Sehy [44:29]: "Staging your house can help it sell 6 to 10% faster than those that are not staged."

Doug [41:57]: "Having a solid marketing plan is crucial. Professional photos and staging can significantly increase interest."

They also touch upon alternative strategies like renting out properties when selling isn't feasible, advising caution and thorough planning for those considering becoming landlords.

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Community Engagement and Trivia

56:54 – 63:31

Towards the end of the episode, the hosts engage with their audience, sharing listener stories and trivia questions related to budgeting and personal finance. This segment underscores the show's commitment to interactive and community-driven content.

Sean Morgan [57:03]: "Thanks to Sean Morgan for joining us today. You'll find his podcast, The Teacher Money Show, wherever you found this podcast."

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Key Takeaways

56:54 – 62:21

The episode concludes with a recap of essential budgeting principles discussed:

1. Focus on Expenses: Distinguish between essential and non-essential spending to allocate funds effectively.
2. Adaptability: Be willing to explore alternative financial strategies, such as renting out property, when necessary.
3. Accountability: Leverage support systems and habit-forming techniques to maintain budgeting practices.
4. Empowerment: Use budgeting as a tool to achieve financial freedom and personal goals, not just as a restrictive measure.

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Final Thoughts

The Stacking Benjamins Show successfully transforms budgeting from a daunting task into an empowering journey. By featuring expert advice and real-world applications, the episode provides listeners with the tools and motivation needed to take control of their finances.

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Visit StackingBenjamins.com for more resources and show notes.

Transcript

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

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[Kristen Wade]

Malicious emails and fraudulent websites.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

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[Sean Morgan]

I don't know.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Sounds like we're calling a football play.

[Doug]

I was drinking a can of beer.

[Sean Morgan]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

At six in the morning.

[Sean Morgan]

Key lime beer.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Key lime flavored Lacroix flavored beer. Ooh, there's a new what if Budweiser came out with Lacroix flavored beer.

[Sean Morgan]

They're actually going the other way. It's funny you say that beer as an industry is plummeting and wine growing. Yeah. The fastest growing segment are either low alcohol or non alcoholic.

[Doug]

And so they're all Brewing is amazing. If you guys haven't had it, what is it? It's fantastic. Athletic brewing.

[Sean Morgan]

I just read about it. I've heard it's great.

[Doug]

Fantastic.

[Sean Morgan]

I think it's half percent alcohol tastes fantastic from what I hear. But that's one of the fastest growing segments so you still get that beer.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Taste in your mouth, that beer breath that women like.

[Sean Morgan]

You get to belch.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Very happy get to do all that.

[Sean Morgan]

But the toots the next morning.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, it's fantastic. Let's raise our bugs. On that note, to all the men and women serving our country, whether you're drinking beer or not, on behalf of the men and women making podcasts in mom's basement.

[Sean Morgan]

Na if you're flying a F15, please God.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And the men and women at Navy Federal Credit Union, here's a Big salute to our troops this fine Monday morning. Let's stack some Benjamins together this week, shall we?

[Sean Morgan]

Thanks, everybody.

[Doug]

Cheers.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Welcome to the Duff Brewery.

[Doug]

Here we have Duff, Duff Lite, and our newest flavor, Duff Drying. What does the future hold for Duff? Let's just say we've got a few ideas up our sleeve. Like what? I'd rather not get into it right now. Why not?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

All right.

[Doug]

We don't have any ideas for the future.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

We got nothing.

[Doug]

Happy?

[Kristen Wade]

No.

[Sean Morgan]

Live from Joe's mom's basement, it's the Stacking Benjamin show. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and this has been an eight weeks to remember, hasn't it? We opened by helping you build your income. Then we talked frugality and values, spent some time with the Magic 8 Ball, and just for good measure, we tackled innovation and a ton more. So let's kick off the last five days of this eight week trek by helping you with your budget. We'll chat with two budget coaches who know how to help you focus on what matters. Sean Morgan and Kristin Wade. Plus, in our headline, real estate sales are so sluggish in some communities that people are taking their homes off the market. What does that mean for your real estate deal? We'll dive in. And what would a Stacking Benjamin show be like if it weren't punctuated by some of my terrific trivia? Would it even be a Stacking Benjamin show if there wasn't my tree? This is ridiculous. And now two guys who are disappointed the pro baseball teams haven't called them up yet because you guys are in a league so far below low a ball they can't see you. It's Joe and oh, Jaja. Jaja G.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Pitchers, catchers reported two weeks ago the first spring training games are already going.

[Sean Morgan]

Javi Baez is already re injured.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Is that a shock to anybody who follows baseball?

[Sean Morgan]

Oh, Detroit would be ecstatic if that happened again to just take take the decision off of the manager's plate and it's over.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. Hey, everybody. It's just beginning here though. Welcome to another week of the Stacky Benjamin show. Relax and sit back because we're about to get our financial nerdery on. We're going to control the controllable laugh a little bit of what you can't control. And a guy who you can never control is on this podcast. Mr. OG is here.

[Doug]

Straight ball. I hit very far. Curveball. Bats are afraid.

[Sean Morgan]

Jobu no like curveball.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You know, with Bob Ucher dying just a few weeks ago, it's so funny. How many Major League references? Just all the time.

[Sean Morgan]

Yeah. They don't get old with the number.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Of times I say, whenever anything goes wrong in my life, I go just a bit outside, outside.

[Sean Morgan]

He throws right for the corner and.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Missed as he throws the ball over the backstop. If you haven't seen the old movie Major League, whether you like baseball or not, you owe it to yourself because that's a one funny movie.

[Doug]

It's a little vulgar. FYI, Slightly got a little. There's some. There's some sauce to it.

[Sean Morgan]

Some of that 80s humor that you think, oh, my God, how did they get away with this?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, yeah. Now, they certainly probably couldn't get away with it at all. Like I should.

[Doug]

So my son is a perennial bunter on the team. Like, he just. He's good at it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Wants to or not. Swings with full force. He's got that OG family.

[Doug]

He gets up to bat in his first game this year. There's two outs, runners on the corner. And I look at my wife and I go, there's no way they're going to make him. But. And the coach is like. William just looks at him like he's.

[Sean Morgan]

Slapping himself right now.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yes. Because OG still hasn't figured out that it's a audio podcast.

[Doug]

Yeah. And William looks at him, just goes, huh? And he does it again. And William's like, you know, like working a bunt with two outs and runners on the corner. Okay. I mean, sure, it's playing small ball, I guess, Skipper. So he bunts and bunts directly to the pitcher. So it's pretty much an easy out. But I. I think he did it on purpose, honestly, because he was just so mad. He was just like, you know, I want to get an rbi. I want to swing. So I show him the bit from Major League. I'm like, you just have to. Next time, you just have to, like, call your shot, you know, at the very end, you know. You know the scene I'm talking about, right?

[Sean Morgan]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yes.

[Doug]

You know, I think we could spoil that scene.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

If you haven't seen Major League, it's your own problem.

[Doug]

Taylor's calling his shot. We haven't seen this since the 1932 World Series with Babe Ruth. And then he bunts for a single.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It's historic.

[OG]

Yeah.

[Sean Morgan]

That was Tom Behringer's character who did that, I think.

[Doug]

The Indians win. The Indians win. Oh, my God. The Indians win.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And they're hugging each other. The announcers are hugging each other because they're so not used to it.

[Sean Morgan]

It really does hold up. I mean, I had my kids watch it at a time when they should have thought, oh, my God, this old movie dad. And they loved it and they both played baseball.

[Doug]

We made him watch Tommy Boy and they're like, yeah, this is kind of just dad humor. I go, no, this is Tommy Boy humor. This is Chris Farley.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, this was dad humor even then. This is Tommy Boy humor even. Yeah, we got a great show. We're going to talk about your budget today for everybody who wonders, how do I get that spending thing under control? We're going to get tactical this week o where we dive into the budget. Sha Morgan is here spending, as is Kristen Wade. So we got two great budget coaches who knows how to help you lock that thing down. And OG, there is. I mean, there's two parts to this equation, right? There's make more money, which is the part that everybody forgets. That's why we started 2025 this way. But then there is, you know, spend money just on the stuff that you really enjoy and stop wasting money on the stuff you don't enjoy.

[Doug]

I just spend money. It's just easier then. Then you don't have to worry about joy or not joy. It's just always in the steady state of oh my God.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, thank goodness we've got greatness coming down the stairs to help OG and you guys can all ride along.

[Doug]

Pretty please.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That is coming up. It's mentor Monday here on the show. Love our mentor Monday. Before that, we've got a couple sponsors that make sure this is free for you and we can keep on keeping on with this podcast. We're going to say hello to them and then let's talk about your budget. Small business owners State farms there with small business insurance to fit your specific needs. Whether you're starting a new venture or growing an existing one, State Farm helps you choose the right coverage to protect what matters most. Working with a local State Farm agent helps you understand your coverage options. Offering local support to help you achieve your goals. Focused on turning your passion into a thriving business. Knowing your insurance can change as your business grows. Stay Farm here to help you succeed with your business like a good neighbor, State Farm is there well stackers. This episode is brought to you by Navy Federal Credit Union. At Navy Federal, our mission is to help members of the military, veterans and their families achieve their financial goals. And that's why we offer great savings and investing options like our certificates. Certificates come with sky high rates and some even have the flexibility to add money anytime during your Term. Whether you're saving for a home, a new car, or your future, our options could help you get there. And certificates are just the beginning. Navy Federal also provides financial advisors to help you manage your investment portfolio, along with online tools to guide your savings plan. With our support, you'll have everything you need to take charge of your finances. So don't wait. The sooner you start building your financial future with Navy Federal savings and investing options, the better off you could be in the long run. Sign up@navy federal.org Navy Federal Credit Union. Our members are the mission Savings products insured by NCUA Investment products are not insured, not obligations at Navy Federal and may lose value. And I'm super happy these wizards are with us. Shawn Morgan and Kristen Way join us. How are you guys?

[Kristen Wade]

Good, thank you.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. Super happy that you could be here. Well, there's so many misconceptions about budgeting. Let's start. Actually, Sean, with you. When did you realize that a good budget was going to really help you instead of being this, you know, fenced in nastiness that a lot of people think that budgeting might be?

[OG]

I started out my career as a teacher. I still am a teacher, actually. My first year teaching, I was an intern and they paid me half salary. You can't survive without a budget on half of a first year teacher salary. It's just literally impossible. So I realized it was very freeing early on to have my money going somewhere where it belonged.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You just had to see how many ramen noodles you could afford.

[OG]

Yeah, pretty much it was ramen noodles and rice. Just back and forth. A little bit of chicken in there. It was great.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Variety is the spice of life. How about for you, Kristen?

[Kristen Wade]

My first career was as a nurse. And when I became a nurse, I knew I would be making more money than ever and I didn't want to be. Keeping up with the Joneses is. So that's when I found budgeting at all was back when I was in my early 20s and I was like, oh, I can actually reach these goals when I have a plan for my money.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, that's cool. That's awesome. What really makes a healthy budget? Like, if I'm just starting out from. I've never budgeted before. Kristen, let's stick with you for a second. What is it that you think is the real key to a healthy budget?

[Kristen Wade]

When people are looking at budgeting, they think it has to be this huge undertaking and a really intense process and stop eating out, stop having fun. So my best advice is just to start, start Observing what your spending is before you control it. Because then you'll come at it from a place of non judgment as opposed to shame. Because if we start in the shame cycle from the get go, you're not going to stick with it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. Sean, do you agree?

[OG]

No. A hundred percent. You know, the understanding where your money is going is important. One of my favorite quotes from Dave Ramsey is the first time you budget, you're going to suck. And I think that the reason for that is because you don't actually know where your money's going until you've tracked it. So I think that the first step to budgeting is actually to just track it so you know what you're doing first. And then you can actually start saying, this is how much I spend here or there, and also making that room for the fun stuff. So you're not just doing, you know, the straight rice and beans approach or the, the ramen noodles and rice approaches we were talking about. That's just going to throw you off automatically.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, and why is it that tracking is the first step? Is that because we're so clueless, Sean, about how we spend our money?

[OG]

You know, honestly, if you aren't tracking how much you're spending on food, it can be shocking how expensive food is. Especially when you're just going to the store and saying, oh, you know, that looks good, or let's just get that, and then you might not even eat it. And it just can really add up. So tracking it can help you understand that, oh, I spend this much on food on a regular basis. So instead of saying, I'm going to spend, you know, $250 on food and then find out that you spend twice that or three times or four times that, and then you just get discouraged. Having that baseline is really helpful. So that way then you can start managing instead of having unrealistic expectations.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Is that where you start with clients to Kristen is on just tracking?

[Kristen Wade]

Absolutely. Coming from healthcare, it was all data driven. And I took that into my practice as well because you don't know there's a problem unless you go looking for the numbers. So in fact, I just worked with a client who found $14,000 she spent on Amazon in one calendar year because of tracking. And in this instant world where you can buy on your phone, press a button, Apple pay, like we're disconnected from the purchase. So tracking helps you figure out is there even a problem and how much of a problem is it?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That's amazing. But tracking by itself, I don't think is the answer. To your problem. I mean, you have to then look at it, right? What type of process do you guys recommend? I guess, for looking at that tracking. Do you look at it weekly? Do you look at it once a month? Kristen, how often do you tell people.

[Kristen Wade]

To dive in when you're first getting started? I always say stick with it every couple days. It doesn't need to be a daily stressor. But you don't want to get too out of touch with what's going on, right? So even once a week can be too much for some people. Too much time. This way you can see, oh, I spend a lot during the week when I'm tired, or weekends are when I tend to blow the budget. Once you track, the next step is then let's make a plan for the money, right? You have to take that data and do something, because then it's like tracking your calories or. Or logging your food. If you never change that, then you just have the same story going forward. And so this is where we step.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

In, I think, about Thomas Jefferson. You guys know the story of Thomas Jefferson, about Thomas Jefferson tracked every single expense. His budget was horrible. He was broke when he died, but he tracked every penny that he was blowing. Kristen, to your. To your point, he knew exactly I was blowing it, and he did nothing about it. So you gotta. You definitely got to do something about it. Where are the places where people generally get the surprises, like where they're spending? Sean, you. You mentioned food earlier. Is food the number one place where people go, oh, my goodness, I'm overspending there? Or is it a different place where they get the aha.

[OG]

You know, I honestly think that eating out is just the. The thing that's getting most people most of the time. I mean, like, it's. Not everybody. Not everyone eats out all the time, but it's just so easy, or at least seemingly easy to just go eat out instead of making food at home or, you know, you're just tired, you're hungry, you want it right now. So eating out is probably one of the biggest. And then when we're at the grocery store, especially when we're hungry at the grocery store, we tend to overspend at the grocery store. So I think it's one of the major ones. It's definitely not the only thing, but it's definitely something that can surprise a lot of people when they get there.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That's one. I also think, Kristen, about subscriptions. Do you find a lot of your clients, like, they have no idea what their subscription costs are?

[Kristen Wade]

Exactly Tracking really will bring a lot of things to light because they'll see a purchase come through, and they're like, oh, my gosh, I didn't realize I had. I kid you not, eight different streaming services.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, right.

[Kristen Wade]

And they don't even tap into them. Now, there are, you know, of course, different apps that advertise you will cut these for you, but the cheapest way to do it is to just see where your money's going. Just look at those bank statements, and you can find that information yourself.

[OG]

The ironic thing is, you get a subscription to an app that's going to cut your subscriptions. It just. It doesn't make any sense.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

So you guys aren't a fan of that one? It sounds like all that much. That's funny. So let's dive in. So I start off with tracking. Now, when I'm tracking, am I doing this manually? Am I writing it down for that tactile feel of it, or am I using an app? Sean, how do you start tracking?

[OG]

I think it depends entirely on who you are. I had to write it down. So I tried an app first, and I realized that it's tracking it for me, but I'm not checking it right. And then I'm like, oh, how about I do an Excel spreadsheet? My wife was typing in all of our expenses, but I wasn't ever viewing them because she was just typing them in. It's like, yeah, we've tracked it, right? But when we had a piece of paper on the counter that was just there that we could both see and we could just walk in and write down, you know, I spent this at the grocery store. It's super quick. It was super easy. There are downsides to it. You know, when you're trying to calculate the tracking column, you're like, oh, man, this is going to take a while. But I really liked that approach for me. But I know other people are much more techy and just really want to have the app, and they'll do all the connections that make it easy, and they'll check it often and so forth. So it just depends on who you are.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. Kristen, how about for you?

[Kristen Wade]

I agree. Back when life was pretty simple in my early 20s, I didn't have kids yet. I could write stuff down. You know, I had the time to sit and do it. But as my life sort of shifted, I found the app was helpful because I could do a direct import where it would just fill in the transactions. I would check it every couple days, see what came through. And that was really helpful because I could catch fraud. Actually caught fraud twice because it direct imported from my bank and it didn't even clear because I caught it in time. So I've had the full spectrum.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

What kind of fraud?

[Kristen Wade]

Someone had gotten a hold of my credit card and made a purchase at some wonky store. So even before the banks had gotten to it and called me, I was like, I have never been to California Foot Locker and was able to catch it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That's funny you say California Foot Locker because for some reason Apple Maps always tries to connect me instead of my home to Wetzel Pretzels in the middle of California. This place I've never been and every time I get in my car and I've never fixed it. But some reason I've got this affinity for Wetzel's Pretzels in like Sacramento.

[Kristen Wade]

Sounds like you need to go.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I think it's a road trip. I mean, all that butter on a pretzel in a mall, that'd be fantastic. It's funny that you guys say that because, you know, for Cheryl and I, what worked and I love, Sean, what you said, that it's going to change based on who you are. But for me, it was kind of a melding of what both of you guys do. It was, you know, with my twins growing up, we finally started our budget. We needed the quickness of the app. But my problem was Sean, you nailed it on the head. For me, I never looked at it like the, you know, I admit, and I didn't look at any of it unless my notification went off. And then the notifications got old within three months because they were set up on these preconceived ideas I had that weren't real at all about my money. So the notifications started going off and I would ignore those too. So instead for us, we needed a weekly meeting like Cheryl and I had to have a weekly meeting. And even if you're single, I love the weekly meeting idea because of the fact that you're going to do exactly what you pointed to, which is you're going to actually sit down. And our weekly meeting was very simple. It was. We looked at how we spent money the week before and just went through all those transactions to kind of do Kristen, what you're talking about, what are the surprises? And then looking at the next week, talk through with each other how we're going to spend money, or if I'm single, looking at how am I going to spend money? So that when I'm at the board game store, I'm like, wait a minute. This wasn't part of the discussion. This was. This wasn't what we. What we talked about, and I absolutely love that. I want to get back, though, Sean, to. For you, it was writing it down that worked. Did you ever get then from there to an app, or do you still have a process where you write it down?

[OG]

Well, I'm a little bit of a freak in this, so I write it down and I use an app.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, okay.

[OG]

Like, writing it down still helps me with the habit of tracking it and knowing that I'm spending money, because I also have, like, expenses going in for a business. I track those separately. But having the app allows me to manage my cash flow, so I know exactly how much cash I have to be able to spend. So I'm doing both right now. That's because both give me two different sets of data, and I want that data, but you don't have to do that. I'm just weird, so. But yes, I do use an app now, and I think it's great to have an app, but I also use the app more in the manual process because I still find value in manually inputting it and thinking through it instead of just having to automatically happen because I wouldn't look well.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And then, Kristen, for you going the other way, you've got it downloaded automatically from the app, right? But how did you create a system that I'm making sure you look at the app.

[Kristen Wade]

You pick two money nerds. Because I will say my budget is my sense of control, and I love to check it daily. Now, this is also not something you have to do if you're listening, but I love to see which money I have set aside in the little digital envelopes. Be like, okay, I can go out to eat, or I can hit the grocery store on the way home. And I know I've got money for these things or I don't have money for clothes, but I found the shirt I like, and I could take it from something else. So I really like to have that hands on. Like, what is my money doing for me each day in the moment? And having it on my phone versus some piece of paper I left at home has been a game changer for me.

[OG]

Wow.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And you opened up a whole different topic, which is this fact that there's lots of different types of budgets. Right. Because when you said envelope, I mean, there's tons and tons of different types of budget. When you talked about envelopes, is that the. Do you use kind of a modern version of the envelope system, Kristen?

[Kristen Wade]

Yes, so zero based budgeting is like a digital envelope system. Because the practicality of carrying cash around. I live in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Breaking Bad was filmed here. You don't want to be carrying cash around. Let's just be honest. So having that, like knowing my checking account, every dollar is assigned for a purpose without having the cash in hand has been a really helpful tool for me.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I want to ask about the app specifically because really, when I hear zero based budgeting programs, I think of three different programs. Specifically, I think of. Well, number one, I think the one you might be referring to is Cube. Do you use Cube Money?

[Kristen Wade]

I don't. I use my Budget Coach.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

My Budget Coach. Yeah. Tell me about my Budget Coach.

[Kristen Wade]

Yes. So we are similar to Ynab. That may have been one of the apps that you were looking at as well.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yes.

[Kristen Wade]

So same concept. Cube is awesome in its own way. It's very strict. Right. However, it's tricky if you want to use credit cards, which I also love, credit card hacking for being able to intentionally spend and get rewards. My Budget Coach allows you to do this digital envelope system. But the neat part is, is you get help from a coach within the system right away. So you're not struggling with software when you have bigger financial goals to tackle.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Gotcha. Awesome. But Ynab and Cube are also ones that do. I think that same thing. And then Dave Ramsey's got the. What's it called? Every Dollar.

[OG]

Every Dollar.

[Kristen Wade]

Yes.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Sean, have you tried any of the other ones besides my Budget Coach?

[OG]

I have used everydollar. That was the one that didn't work for me when I was first starting out. I also tried Mint, but of course that one's no longer in use. But the one I currently use is My Budget Coach as well.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Sure. Yeah. And people will find both of you on the My Budget Coach platform. By the way, when I was searching for help in this, I saw both of you there on the My Budget Coach platform. But you know, there's other apps out there. As an example, Tiller Money. If you guys tried Tiller Money because you talked, Sean, earlier about using spreadsheets, I think for a spreadsheet nerd, Tiller Money would be a nice app to use.

[OG]

I've heard a lot about Tiller Money. I have not used it because I'm. I'm too cheap to pay for subscriptions sometimes. So I. I just use the spreadsheet.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. Then you don't use the one that I use, which is Monarch Money either.

[OG]

Then I haven't used it. But it's making a big splash. I know that it's a one that's got a lot of good bells and whistles for people that want to use them.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, it's very nice. It is very nice. But what I miss and what I like that both of you guys do is, you know, you can also press on somebody. I like having a Gordon Ramsay in my corner going, joe, why are you at the board game store again? Right. Which is fantastic. Help talk about, though, getting off the wagon, because, Kristen, you know, people get excited about budgeting. They go to a place like my budget coach or every dollar or. Or tiller money, whatever. And the first three weeks, it's phenomenal. Right? And then life gets in the way and things change. How do you pick back up and get back on the budget again?

[Kristen Wade]

It's really interesting looking at the people who come to me and say, I want coaching. The vast majority are restarting. I'm getting people who have tried every app, different coaches, very expensive programs, people who have just been diligent in one way, and then they have some kids and they can't keep up with a spreadsheet. I have never met someone who has not tried before and said they failed, even though I don't believe it's a failure. So to get back on it, I think you just got to give yourself a lot of grace. It's just like losing weight, right? It's just like quitting smoking or any big initiative. This is a lifelong skill. You're not going to master it the first time. You're probably not even going to master it the second time. But as long as you have some support, whether it's your significant other, you know, a coach, someone in your corner, in your friend circle, who knows money, that is the key is having accountability with somebody.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. You like the idea, I'm sure, too, of accountability. Sean, what would you add to that?

[OG]

I believe that motivation, like, being able, like, I'm not motivated right now, is kind of a lie. And it's just about momentum, getting something going just even a little bit. And a really great way to do this is to do habit stacking. So if you're in the habit of doing, you know, something even meaningless or mindless, like, you know, watching a show on Netflix, maybe you just say, hey, whenever I sit down to watch this show, I'm going to just look at my budget or, you know, even something that's even more important in your life, like, oh, I exercise every morning already, and I'm diligent about that. When I sit down And I'm taking a break after my exercise. I'll look at my budget and just stacking those habits on top of each other can compare those habits that are good that you already have to this new habit you're trying to maintain of checking your budget. And that's a really powerful approach.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I love that idea because for me, back when I was a financial planner, I'd find that a lot of the time what people were doing is they were making it too complicated and I had to look at the reason why they fell off the wagon. A lot of times it's because, you know, when you first sit down, you want it to be this big, huge Camp David summit, you know, and I want to track every single little tiny line item. And, and you know what? When you back away from that, you're like, this is much more about communicating with myself and making good choices than it is about figuring out which percentage of my grocery budget was spent on broccoli. It's a big, big way that I win. All right, let's talk about. I think for me, the important part of budgeting is not the budget itself. It's the life that it can give you. Right? How do you take the wins? Kristen, you talked about this big win of, you know, $14,000 on Amazon that somebody. How do you then, with a client, help them lock this down? So now I've automated it so it now goes to the right place every month instead of to Amazon purchases.

[Kristen Wade]

The best question that I could ask someone is, why are you here? Why are you budgeting? And once you get beyond the. Because you're supposed to, because no one ever taught me, and I guess I have to, there's some reason there's something they want, right? Whether it's to take that lower paying job or plan that vacation that they could never take. So we give them something small to work towards and say, go get those new shoes. You can afford it in two and a half weeks at this rate, we're shifting some of that Amazon money over. You turn off the app for a week and you found money for those new shoes. And so when they can spend with intention and it's not some sort of restrictive saying no situation, that is when they light up and that's when the motivation and the momentum to your point, Sean, can come into play.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, Sean, how about for you?

[OG]

Well, I feel like the, the key here is to realize that as human beings, we tend to live to our max, right? When I get a bowl of cereal in the morning because I eat breakfast like I'm five. I fill it all the way to the top. And if I got a smaller bowl of cereal, I'd fill it to the top, but I'd still have less cereal, Right? So this idea of paying yourself first by putting that money somewhere else, like, even if you can get your, your paycheck to split, sometimes hrs will like, say, okay, I'm going to put 90% of your paycheck into this account and 10% over here. That's going to automatically take some of that Amazon money away that you won't even notice because it's not going into your account. And your, your brain just kind of automatically says, well, this is what I have now. I'm going to start living off of that. And then you can start doing fun things with that other account that's just going to start growing.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And I love this idea, guys, of divorcing. I think divorce is a good word here. Divorcing your budget from the amount of money you make. Like when you talk about, you know, hr, Sean, and, and the fact that I can have direct deposit to two different places, I get the next pay raise. That whole pay raise that automatically doesn't go into my checking account, so I spend more.

[OG]

Yeah, it's super powerful to have that check in place because human psychology is not going anywhere. But if you can, when you're thinking rationally about it, set up a system to kind of circumvent that psychology, it's really powerful.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That's absolutely fabulous. But then, Kristen, if you do make that decision that I'm going to lock down my budget, when do you see people give themselves raises? Like, when do you go, you know what, I deserve to spend more money in X area? Or is that part of the game? Like, do you gamify it?

[Kristen Wade]

That is my favorite part. When we can get through the basics, we track their money, we know where their money is going, and then they start to have extra. And it almost happens magically, they're like, how do I have extra? There's never extra because they had never dragged it before. And then I'm like, when's the last time you bought yourself new underwear? That's something that's common, right? People tend to not buy themselves new, like undergarments or like, when's the last time you took yourself for a massage? And then their homework is now, this may be one month in, this may be a year in, but go get a massage, right? Go do those things. Spend your money because that's what you have set it aside for. There's almost a flip. When people start budgeting, they don't want to spend because they finally achieved something they don't want to mess up. So we try and break through that as well.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It is, Sean, it's that momentum that you're talking about. I've seen that too. People, they're like, I can't save, I can't save, I can't save. And then all of a sudden, they become a freaking machine.

[OG]

At just happens so naturally when you're building that up and you're just going and rolling it forward and you've built that muscle up now that you've got the momentum going, that it's really hard to exercise the other muscle that you were so good at before of actually spending the money.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yes. Do you gamify it as well?

[OG]

I think the important thing to do is to make a part of your budget, the fun spending part, the thing you want. Like, you can have a budget category like Cancun Cruise cash. Right. You know, whatever it is that you want to do. Right. If you make that something, I'm putting money towards that. And you know how much it's going to cost. When you hit that amount, you have no reason not to spend it because you've been putting that money there and it's ready for you to spend as soon as you get that point. So it's. It's really powerful to have fun names for things that you're going for. And then once you hit a certain amount, say, I need, you know, $2500. You get that much in there, I'm going to spend it because I've made it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You know, budget is the expense side of the equation. But have you ever found, Kristen, that when somebody locks down their budget, that it also helps them with the other side of the equation, with maybe making more money? Does it help at all there?

[Kristen Wade]

It absolutely does. And I once coached a doctor from California who made more in a month than I made the entire year coaching. And I'm sitting here like, she's telling me she's broke and she's made more than I can fathom. And once we figured out where the money was going, and she's like, wow, I didn't realize, granted, this is the next level amount of spending. She found money so she could leave her job at a major hospital system when they were striking and pursue what she really wanted. So she didn't make more money, she actually took a pay cut, but found more money because she was able to wrangle in that random spending.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, that's fabulous flexibility. Finally have flexibility. Sean, do you have a story?

[OG]

I don't have a story specifically about this, but I feel like when you realize how much money you need to survive and you've got that figured out, you've got it dialed in and then you're like, oh, man, I've got these goals. You're just more excited to go and pursue, you know, a hobby or some kind or a side business is going to increase your income and you're not stressed about money anymore, so it's just kind of more fun. And then you're able to just dial that in towards those fun things that you want to spend it on. And it's just really powerful when you have that, that incentive because you know that that extra money is not just going to go to buy more groceries or just to go to pay your electric bill. It's going to go to something you actually want.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It's so liberating when you realize. I had a mentor asked me this. It was funny. I was a brand new financial planner. I was coaching people on financial planning. And this mentor said, how much money does it cost you to light up your office every day? Like, what are you talking about? He's like, what does it cost you to run this business? You've done it like, like, what's the minimum amount of money I got to bring in in a day? Which kind of is what you guys are saying. What's the minimum amount I got to bring in to make this happen? I had no idea because I had no business budget. Once I knew what my business budget was, then that made me then able to go, okay, well, then I need x number of clients paying me y amount of money just to keep the lights on. And then to your point, Sean, then I got excited and I'm like, and if I added three more, then that would give me, you know, and then, Kristen, to your point that I'm building in the flexibility of my life and, and so empowering. It's so funny because I feel like so many people think a budget is offense and what you guys approved, I hope today is that it's not a fence as much as it's this broadening of your horizons. It gives you so much more flexibility. Well, sadly, our time is done for today. Sean, I got if only there were a podcast where people talked about budgeting and if they were a teacher especially, wouldn't that be really cool if somebody had a podcast about that?

[OG]

Yeah, if somebody did, it might be called the Teacher Money Show. And I don't Know, a cool guy named Sean might be the host.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

So very handsome dude. Yes. What's coming up on the Teacher Money Show?

[OG]

Well, right now we've got a cool lineup of talking about financial literacy and schools coming up. We've just got a nice set of money mindset and just getting your money mindset right before you start worrying about the money. Going on three great episodes in a row about that. And our big focus this year is just talking about investing and understanding the basics so you don't have to be afraid to get started.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, that's sweet. Yes. I love that. And especially you know this better than anybody, Sean, that teachers and your choices of retirement funds. You got to be really careful very on how you choose investments. I don't know why we leave our teachers out to dry with some of the crappiest options.

[OG]

It's criminal, really.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It is. It's so frustrating. And Kristen, if only there were an app where people could get zero based budgeting and a coach all wrapped into one. If only that existed.

[Kristen Wade]

Oh, if only. Yes, we, as Sean mentioned, we are both on the platform for my budget coach and so you know, I will not be offended. Please pick Sean. He's an incredible coach. We have almost 30 other coaches on there. So if you're thinking, oh, I'm not really resonating with these two, but maybe someone else has a story like mine. Like, I bet you there's a coach for you on there. So we would love to see you on there. Check out what we got. We have a free trial, so you have nothing to lose.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, free trial. I love it. Frequent contributor to this show, Nassima McElroy is a coach on there. You'll see a few names if you're a fincon person that, that we all know. Kristen and Sean, thank you for mentoring our stackers today on budgeting. I super appreciate both of you.

[Kristen Wade]

Thank you for the opportunity.

[OG]

Joe, thanks for having us on.

[Sean Morgan]

Hey there, stackers. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor Doug, and here's a guy who's busted a budget or two. Happy birthday to Steve Jobs. The legendary founder of Apple was well known as a college dropout. But here's a question. What course did Jobs audit that he says was a big part of what set Apple apart? I'll be back right after I go figure out how many questions are going to be on this blood test I have tomorrow.

[Doug]

The Jack Welch Management Institute at Strayer University helps you go from I know the way to I've arrived with our.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Top 10 ranked online MBA.

[Doug]

Gain skills you can learn today and apply tomorrow. Get ready to go from make it happen to made it happen and keep striving. Visit strayer.edu Jack WelchMBA to learn more. Strayer University is certified to operate in Virginia by Chev and has many campuses, including at 2121 15th Street north in Arlington, Virginia.

[Kristen Wade]

Imagine what's possible when learning doesn't get in the way of life. At Capella University, our game changing flexpath learning format lets you set your own deadline so you can learn at a time and pace that works for you. It's an education you can tailor to your schedule. That means you don't have to put your life on hold to pursue your professional goals. Instead, enjoy learning your way and earn your degree without missing a beat. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more at Capella. Edu get the Angel REEF Special at McDonald's. Now let's break it down. My favorite barbecue sauce, American cheese, crispy bacon, pickles, onions, and a sesame seed bun, of course. And don't forget the fries and a drink.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Sound good? I participate in restaurants for a limited time.

[Sean Morgan]

Hey there stackers. I'm needle disliker and guy who answers B on every test question. Joe's mom's neighbor Doug. Good news. Turns out I would have to study for my blood test. Joe's mom said the only question they'll ask is if I'm a moron. How many Ls are in moron again?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Ha.

[Sean Morgan]

She's such a kidder. And if they ask me that, of course I know the answer so I'm sure to ace the test. Anywho, Steve Jobs birthday is today and we're celebrating by buying all of our snow stackers iPhones. Oh, we're not. That's cheap. What? Oh my God. I'm sorry, I didn't hear that. We don't have any apparently. Money. That's a problem. Yeah, maybe next episode we'll get some money. Okay, so not sure if you heard that, but OG had a better idea for a prize. A nice firm nod from us that you won. Like one of those sub dude nods. You know, one of those cool nods. Ah, that'll be incredible when you tell your friends. Or friend I don't want to judge. Maybe even tell acquaintances. You know, keeping it real. So what class did Apple co founder Steve Jobs audit that he says changed the trajectory of Apple and set the company apart? The answer? It was a calligraphy class. The smooth lines and meditative approach Jobs said helped him focus on the esthetics of the products over increased functionality. A move consumers clearly appreciated. And now back to the two worms in this apple of a podcast, Joe and. Oh, gee, that was kind of cute, Joe. The worms in the apple. It's just adorbs.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Why are you telling me? It's adorable. Are you pointing out your own brilliance? Is that what you're doing?

[Sean Morgan]

Yeah, I thought it was. I was pretty proud of it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Listen to this one. Listen to this one, Joe. This one's so good.

[Sean Morgan]

Everybody went, oh, I like being the.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Worms in the apple. Yeah. Well, thank you. Hey, we got a big headline today, so let's not focus on the worm. Let's focus on the apple. Let's keep this moving.

[Doug]

What are we talking about?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Hello, darlings.

[Kristen Wade]

And now it's time for your favorite.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Part of the show. Our stacking Benjamin's headlines. Our headline today.

[Doug]

You know what my grandma used to say about, you know, what's worse than finding worm in your apple? She had apple trees at her house and pear trees and stuff. And I grew up going to grandma's house, and we would just like, literally pick them off the thing. Like, I was like, this is the greatest thing in the world. You're hungry for a pear, grab one.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Believe it or not, this stuff grows on trees.

[Doug]

Raspberry bushes.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

We don't.

[Doug]

See.

[Sean Morgan]

Most people don't know where fruit comes from, but I do.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I don't mean to brag.

[Doug]

It was fantastic. In the summer, it was. We just ran around the farm and just. We were all hopped up on sugar from fruit anyways. Sometimes there'd be worms in the apples, you know, and grandma would say, you know, it's worse than finding a worm in your apple.

[Sean Morgan]

What's worse?

[Doug]

Finding half a worm.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, okay. How about a headline, everybody?

[Sean Morgan]

My grandma used to say that about tequila.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Finding half a worm in your tequila.

[Doug]

It's on brand.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

This comes to us from the Wall Street Journal, written by Carol Ryan. As buyers fail to show up, more homes are being pulled from sale. This is a distressing headline, I think, for a lot of people. Oh, gee. An uptick in December delistings is the latest sign of dysfunction in America's housing market. I think I should say America's housing markets, by the way, because the US Is not truly not one market. It's a bunch of different ones. But nearly 73,000 homes were pulled from sale after they failed to find a buyer in the final month of last year. Data from real estate analytics firm CoreLogic shows delistings tend to Spike in winter, when fewer people are actively looking for a home. But the trend this last December was unusually Strong, representing almost one in 10 properties on the market and a 64% increase from the same month just a year earlier. Oh, gee, if you're somebody who's had to move, let's say for a job, you don't have a choice. You got to move and your house isn't selling, what the hell's your first thing that you do?

[Doug]

Well, I mean, I think you got to get a little creative.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Right?

[Doug]

You got to have everything even. Even when the market's doing well. You gotta stand out somehow.

[OG]

Right?

[Doug]

You gotta have a good marketing plan for your home, no different than you would have a marketing plan for your business. And if your realtor's marketing plan is, I'm gonna put on the MLS and we'll see if anybody's interested, I think that's no different than hanging a shingle out on Google or something and going, hey, by the way, I'm selling some stuff. If you guys ever need widgets, you know, you might get somebody that walks by. But there needs to be a pretty hardcore sales push, a pretty hardcore marketing push on your house. And if you have the opportunity to work with a professional that has a lot of skills in that area, I think I'd lean in that direction kind of early. If you've been sitting around a while and you have a contract with a realtor, obviously they're all different, but I think you've got a pretty good case for, hey, you've had this listing for three months. There's not been any action. I gotta go in a different direction.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, this is the time, I think, where having the right pro really, really matters, because your house, to your point, has to stand out. And, man, you know, our house, we moved back to Detroit for a couple years. We bought it for a lot less money, frankly, than we should have because, oh, gee, the pictures showed clutter all over the house. It emphasized some of the horrible color carpeting choices in the house. Like, it really didn't show the good points in the house. We didn't have time in the two years we were there to make half of the improvements we wanted to make, that we were going to be there long term. And yet, oh, gee, we had such a better realtor. The pictures popped. The pictures were fantastic of our house, largely the same residence, and we got a huge bump in the price over a short amount of time just from having the right pro in our corner.

[Doug]

Yeah, I mean, obviously, all the stuff that you can control, right. If you're listing online and you can do pictures, obviously you want your pictures to be done professionally. I was trying to sell a car a couple of years ago, and the difference between taking the photos with my iPhone and like uploading them while I was standing on the street and getting the car detailed and taking pictures with a good camera, you know, make sure the lighting was correct and all that sort of stuff just completely changed the amount of traffic that we had just on the, just on people looking at the car. You know, I'm convinced that we sold it better and quicker because it just had a bigger funnel. More people were going to look at it because it was shiny and clean and it looked like we took care of it, which we, we did. We wanted to show that off. And the same thing is true with your house. If you're, if you're walking through your house or realtor walks through your house and just goes, ah, it's fine the way it is. You want to have that put your best foot forward, so to speak.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You know, speaking of best foot forward, I want to come back to the pictures in a second. But also this idea of staging your house. I was talking to a real estate literally yesterday at this nonprofit event I was at and I asked her if this still. Because I knew we were going to talk about this headline today. I was asking her if the houses still look the way they did when we were buying houses with her several years ago. She goes, it's amazing the number of people that a have lots of personal pictures all over their house. People aren't very imaginative. You got to get rid of all these personal effects, number one. Number two, the more you can make it look like Crate and Barrel or Pottery Barn catalog. Yeah, yeah. Even one of those scenes from ikea, when you go walk through ikea, the more you can make it just look like one of these scenes where anybody could live, the better. And the third thing is, if you don't know if you can do that, paying for a stager is a great investment. Like these stagers do this all the time. They know exactly what they're doing. The numbers, the difference in the amount of money you get from staging your house, those are eye popping numbers.

[Sean Morgan]

I think there's some other areas that you may be able to get creative with potential buyers as well that aren't necessarily just about how to market your home. But if the issue is getting to the listing price or getting to a negotiated price, you can agree on, can't you also think of other Areas around helping, you know, pay for points that they might have or other aspects of the financial piece of the equation that could be more flexible to close a deal. Because most of us just think, hey, this is the number I want to get. I got to move. I got a job in another city. I got to get out of here. I want this much money for the house. And right now, given people's apprehension around what might happen with the stock market or their available cash, they may not come to your number, but maybe there's somebody, hey, I need this number. But I can help you out in these other areas over here of the deal that can help lessen your financial burden. Any thoughts on that, you guys?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I don't know. That's a tough area. I mean, do you do have some wiggle room now with the way that you pay your real estate professionals? The frustrating part there is, you know, I know good real estate professionals. They're not going to want to show your house. Right. The more that you start cutting out these people. We talked about the importance of having good people, I think. What's that phrase mom uses? Bite your nose despite your face? Like, it's so. I don't even really understand what that means.

[Sean Morgan]

Bite your nose. Did you just say something about biting your nose?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Is that what that means?

[Sean Morgan]

Don't cut off your nose.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, cut off your nose? Is that what she says?

[Sean Morgan]

Can you bite? I mean, you got a pretty big mouth. Can you bite your own nose?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I think.

[Sean Morgan]

Impressive, man.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Don't mean to brag, but I have a big mouth.

[Doug]

Yeah. Joe, what you're talking about here is focusing on the wrong things. It seems like the easy lift to say, well, I'm going to take the commission from 6% to 5 because that saves me a bunch of money. Where you could have had better photos or better your landscaping done nicely or staged your house appropriately or throwing a coat of paint in, you know, the rooms to make it a little bit more poppy, so to speak. And that would have maybe cost a heck of a lot less than trying to nickel and dime the real estate pros, which, by the way, you want them on your side. And for the record, all of this stuff people are freaking out about, it's like, oh, you know, now I get to negotiate the commissions. It's like, you always got to be. You always were able to do that. The thing that's different now is that it's hidden. It's actually really weird. It used to be very public. Here's what we're paying the buyers and sellers Right. When you sold your house, here was the commission that we're paying, and the realtors would put that online. And now, because of the new law change, they can't put it online. And so they find out on the back end whether or not they're gonna get paid. It's really bizarre. In the interest of transparency, it didn't, in my opinion, do what everybody thought it would, but I don't know that that would be my first area to, you know, to try to cut. To find that extra money. To Doug's point of like, hey, how can I get creative? And getting this thing sold? I think making sure that you get a lot of eyeballs on it. And from a Realtor's perspective, and I know a couple of them, Joe, I think you do too. It's like, I think that's the biggest thing, right, is you need to have a ton of people viewing this house or know. Know that it's for sale.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

To some extent, it's a numbers game.

[Doug]

It seems like it is completely a numbers game, because the more people that know, the more people that talk about it. Eventually you find your buyer.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, because every point along the way is friction, right? If people look at your house on the MLS listing, and it doesn't pop, the description doesn't pop, the pictures don't pop. People don't inquire, People don't inquire. Then they don't decide to visit the house. If they don't visit the house, they don't get a chance to ask, could I live here? So every single one of these things is a potential friction point that takes away from the number of buyers. So you could have, you know, potentially 50 people that on the top end of the funnel that decide from the initial pictures not to do things. Right. Because you decided to hire the cheaper, you know, photographer, let's say, to do the. To do the photos. I've got the numbers right here on staging your house. Listen to this. Staging your house, you can expect it to sell faster because most stage homes sell between 6 and 10% faster than those that are not staged. So if we're just increasing the velocity. So part of this, Doug, is also the velocity of money, right? Maybe you are getting a little less money because you didn't discount all these fees, but because you're getting the money faster, you can then redeploy it. It's funny how many CFOs in these companies focus on the velocity of. Of money. This is why gift cards work so well for companies, because they sell the Gift card. And now even though you haven't bought anything from them, they've increased the amount of getting the money into their hand quicker so they can redeploy it quicker, which means more, more money on the bottom line for that company. And I think in some ways, OG, you got to think the same way. It's a difficult place to be this spot. I think also, OG this is why, this is why. Maybe also thinking further outside the box though, Doug, if you need the number and you're not going to get the number, I think widening this to should I just rent my house? I mean, what do you think about that for a while, OG Just Keep cash flow coming in on the house. If you can cover the mortgage and rent it and wait for a better market.

[Doug]

Well, like you said at the very beginning, everybody's market is different than everybody else's depending on where you are in the country and pricing and that sort of thing. I think everything has to be on the table. I don't know that I would choose to be a landlord in lieu of slightly losing some money. And for most people, unless you bought a house in the last two or three years, you're probably not losing money. You're just not getting the money you think you should have. And, and that's the other piece of it in terms of the professional side of it. It's like investing when you see on your statement that at one point in time you had a million dollars but then the market went down and now you're down to 900 and you go, I lost a hundred K. Meanwhile, you're forgetting the fact that you only put 400 in and it's worth 900, you know, and it's like, remember how fun.

[Sean Morgan]

It was not to pay taxes on that? A hundred K that never materialized. Think about that. That's fun. More fun.

[OG]

Yeah.

[Doug]

I mean, just looking at that high water mark and reflecting on that, and I think a lot of that is also true in the housing market. It's like I remember on Zillow one time they told me my house was worth a million too. And this realtor person here is telling me, you know, I can only sell it for a million. I lost 200 grand. It's like, well, you still bought the thing for 475, right? Years ago. You know, you're not losing anything. It's just you didn't sell it at the peak. You know why? Because you didn't always the peak. Same reason. Didn't sell your stocks at the peak because you didn't Know, at the time that it was. And you can't time the housing market any different than you can times the stock market.

[Sean Morgan]

So it's like saying, I lost 182 million because I didn't buy that Powerball ticket. It was out there just waiting for me.

[Doug]

Yeah, exactly.

[Sean Morgan]

Oh, it wasn't. Wasn't real.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I do think, though, if you have any inkling at all to being a landlord, like, if you've ever thought about it, yeah, this might be a decent time to test that out. For me, that was the case when I couldn't sell my house in, you know, the conditions in 2007, 2008, and housing values in the Detroit area. Especially with what was going on with the auto manufacturers going through the roof. It became a time when I'm like, okay, let's experiment with being a landlord.

[Sean Morgan]

But there were costs associated with you getting the house ready to be rented. Right. And then your time at the. Very.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, the good news was. The good news was there wasn't. Because I had already hired the stager. Like, I knew it was going to be a rough road, Doug. So I had hired the stager. I'd done all of the pre work to make this house look the part there truly was. And outside of me moving out, then anything for us to do to get ready to rent it.

[Sean Morgan]

But there could be, for some people, there could be cost associated. If you have to move to Santa Fe from Columbus, oh, God, why wouldn't you want to leave Columbus? Then you might have to hire a property manager, for instance. So if you're only going to miss your house sale by like 50k, like the, the offer you got is 50k low. You think, oh, I'll just rent it. You may not make up for that difference that fast because of other costs that you don't see cost in renting.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Sure. That's never the case. I mean, it's never the case. In fact, it's funny, I just gave this talk at UC Santa Barbara, and I was talking about these two yahoos on Tick Tock who are talking about the fact that, you know, you're teaching these college kids right away that the stuff these guys say on Tick Tock is ridiculous. This dude's saying 401ks are a scam. Rip your money out and flip houses because you could double your money. Well, you know what? My son's done 21 different real estate transactions. I'll tell you, the first three of them, getting your team together, especially the first three. And even beyond that, getting your team together. Is a hell of a thing. So if you've never done anything with a house before and you're thinking you're going to flip your house and double your money on your first real estate transaction you've ever done. No, my whole point was not even around making a ton of money. It's clearly about you're going to have training wheels. If you want to be a landlord, why not use this thing that's right here versus going out and putting out a ton of other. It always drives me crazy when people have never done a thing. And I see this with people opening restaurants all the time. OG you know, oh, here's how quickly my ramp's going to be to profitability. You need to triple that number. That number needs to be a hell of a lot longer because you don't know what the hell you're doing. No, you know what is on paper? You've read a bunch of books. My son was so confident when he started in real estate. He was so incredibly confident. He was like, no, no, no, no. This is what the book says you need to do. Now. My. Now he's gotten a whole whole different education.

[Sean Morgan]

So are you pro rent your house out? If you can't get the money for that you think you want, but you have to move no matter what are you saying, be cautious because you're going to make mistakes in it and it could cost you money. And your point?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

The original question I asked, oh, gee, was this. If you have an inkling of being a landlord, is this a good opportunity to do that? The answer is yes. The answer is absolutely yes. If you're not going to get money you think you're going to get from your house, why not try being a landlord? If you have it in your DNA and that's what you want to do anyway, this is a good time to try it. I don't think there's anything wrong with that approach. And then the good news is you can punt to another day. This worked for me personally. I was able to punt for another day, cover the cost of the mortgage and a little bit more. So my holding cost essentially were zero. That let me then sell the house for a profit at a later time, keep a little bit of money coming in the front door and not take it on the chip the way I would have if I would have just bailed and. And lost a ton of cash. So clearly, though, not for everybody. And also to your point, Doug, not a time when I'm thinking that this is a big money upside move. This is just Duct tape until we can do what really needs to be done. I think we're going to dive more into this and budgets in the 201, our newsletter that comes out once a week. It's a fantastic list of all kinds of curated links to the best stuff that's out there on the Internet. Stacky benjamin.com 201. And the good news is when we travel like, OG and Doug just got back from a ski trip to Tahoe. We were able to tell everybody in the Tahoe region that they were coming because of the fact that they were members of the 201. Time for us to now wander into the last section of today's show. We call this the back porch, where we talk about things going on in the community. And Doug, I know you've got a few things going on in the community today.

[Sean Morgan]

Yeah, we do, Joe. Some good stuff. We had a guy named person named Balls on Spotify.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You would think that's a guy.

[Sean Morgan]

I don't know.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I would just think somebody named Balls is a guy.

[Sean Morgan]

And I probably shouldn't have because they spelled balls with a W, B, a W, L, S. So, I mean, that could. That could go either way, I suppose. I don't know what that means, but could be crying. Balls says, hey, love the show. Been listening for a few years now. I learned a lot from Joe, OG Doug, Paula, Len Penzo, and your other guests. Doug, one time I used your trivia question as an icebreaker at my first job, and they loved it. I gave you all the credit, of course.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That's great.

[Sean Morgan]

I seriously doubt that, but that would be awesome.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, you know, it is funny. Is that the number of times we've had a trivia question? And I've been. I don't. Just with friends. I'm like, oh, here's today's trivia question. This is interesting. Like, you know what? I'm out at lunch with friends.

[Sean Morgan]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Here's our trivia question. We got what do you guys think it is? And then we'll go around the table and it's. It's. It. It's been a good time. So, Doug, don't deflect too much. It's. It's a good time.

[Sean Morgan]

Awesome. Yeah, thanks. Balls. Speaking of balls, I just got to say that as often as I do.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Speaking of balls. Speaking of balls, Len Penzo was back.

[Sean Morgan]

Speaking of balls.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah.

[Sean Morgan]

He mentioned Len, and we had a ton of love for Len on our Valentine's Day episode.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And Sarah, Catherine and her early exit.

[Sean Morgan]

Yeah, it was a very funny episode. I'm not really sure how deep we got into much money stuff, but damn, that was funny.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

John War, who was the editor at Westwood One for a long time, and a good friend actually wrote to me the day that came out and said, I'm driving from Washington, D.C. to Wilmington, North Carolina, and I'm laughing my head off at this episode. He's like, nice job, guys. And it was so, so much awkward. Weird. Jesse Kramer had the line, which we cannot repeat, I think had the line of the day in that particular episode. Awkward. So, so, so awkward. But lots of people talking about that Valentine's Day episode. But by the way, lots of comments lately on Spotify. And I know that is an area for us that's been growing a lot lately, our Spotify community. I just realized people are leaving us notes over there just a few weeks ago.

[Sean Morgan]

Giant stack of them over there. You got to pay attention, man. Balls. Wraps up there. I had to say it again. Balls. The balls. Maybe that's why he spelled it with a W, because he was from, like, Boston. And he goes, bulls. Bulls. Wraps up by saying, thanks for the great advice throughout the years.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, thanks, pals.

[Sean Morgan]

This guy's a power. This guy's a power listener. This person.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

This person. Name, name. Paul's. Well, on that note, thank goodness. If you had balls on your bingo card today, you might have scored on that one.

[Sean Morgan]

You were playing the balls drinking game. You are blitzed right now.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

All right, that's going to do it for today. Coming up on Wednesday. Today was budget 101. Wednesday, insurance 101. So get out your insurance policies. OG and Doug and I, we're going to dive into your insurances on our potpourri Wednesday, usually wild episode. That's one of the topics. We got a couple more. But the big thing we're doing on Wednesday, taking care of your insurance, hopefully saving you some money and getting you the right coverage. We'll see you then. But, Doug, wrap this up for us, man. What should we have learned on today's episode?

[Sean Morgan]

Well, Joe, here's what stacked up on our to do list for today. First, take some advice about your budget. By focusing on your expenses, you build a wall between what you love to spend money on and those things that are just wasting your Benjamins. Second, real estate. If you have to hold a house that you can't sell, maybe it's time to explore being a landlord. Make lemons out of lemonade. Wait, what? But the big lesson. I was joking about the blood test. It turns out apparently I've been given an A minus already for that. According to this sheet of paper they give you at the end of it. I mean, I guess A is my type, which isn't fair if you think about it. I don't remember any questions, let alone questions I missed. I could be an A plus material and my doc doesn't even show it. Thanks to Sean Morgan for joining us today. You'll find his podcast the Teacher Money show. Wherever you found this podcast. We'll also include links in our show notes@stacking benjamins.com thanks.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Stacking Benjamin.

[Sean Morgan]

Oh, that's coming next. Don't steal my.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I'm sorry.

[Sean Morgan]

God, I don't have that many bullets in my, my belt here. I gotta take them from me. Thanks also to Kristen Wade for joining us. Those bullets in your pocket, are you just happy to see me? Thanks also to Kristen Wade for joining us. You can hire Kristen or Sean to help with your [e-mail] this show is the property of SB Podcasts, LLC, Copyright 2025 and is currently created by Joe Saul Sehive. Joe gets help from a few of our neighborhood friends. You'll find out about our awesome [e-mail] along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh yeah.

[Sean Morgan]

And before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don't take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug and we'll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show. SA foreign.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Welcome to the after show. This is the part of the show that doesn't exist normally. OG and Doug and I do this, but Kristen, you and Sean get to be a part of this today. But Sean, you mentioned Cancun. Fun. Do you have Cancun coming up. Is it?

[OG]

We went all the way down to Yucatan and got to see the ruins down there. It was gorgeous.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Fabulous. Kristen, have you done Mexico?

[Kristen Wade]

I would love to make it to Cancun this year. Someone put a Cancun cruise cash section in my budget now.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, Cancun for people that have never been there is a one long strip along the coast. The resorts are there and then you can take the the bus from any of the resorts into downtown. But you can't get lost. And somehow Cheryl and I, when we were in Cancun several years ago, we get on the bus, going the wrong way. We're trying to meet some people in downtown Cancun for some true, authentic. If you're out at the resorts, nothing's authentic. It feels like you're in the United States, right? It just, it's big resort after big resort, all inclusive stuff. And we're like, we want some authentic stuff. So we're going to meet some people downtown. We get on the bus, we're going the wrong way. And initially it's people in flowery shirts and shorts like us. And then, I don't know, Cheryl and I are just talking and we're having fun and, and the sun is going down. And the bus, I don't remember why, but the lights were on in the bus. And I look up and we are clearly the only people who are dressed in tourist clothing. Everybody else there looks like they either work at one of the resorts or they are locals. And then the horror story starts because neither Cheryl nor I speak Spanish. Sean, do you speak Spanish, Kristen?

[Kristen Wade]

Just enough to get through New Mexico, but not enough to get through Mexico, right?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Ever since we moved to Texarkana, like, I speak a little more Spanish, but the horror story happens when you don't speak the language. The people in the, the row right in front of us turn around and go, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And we go, no, ablo. Like, no. No idea. And then they think like Americans if they talk louder, right? So they start, like, it feels like they're yelling at us, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, I, I, I don't know. And then they look to the front of the bus and they start yelling to the bus driver, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they're pointing at us, blah, blah, blah. And now I feel like everybody on the bus is looking at us and the bus driver's yelling in the rearview mirror while he's still driving down the road, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they pull over the bus and they open the door to the bus, and I literally, I've got no idea what's going on. But I, but I'm sure that they're like, you're on the wrong bus. Because at this point, I know I'm on the wrong bus. So I take this piece of paper out, which is a map, and I point to Tulum street in downtown, and I go, tulum. And I felt like, you know, in real life, maybe the bus driver and the two people in front of us point at the door, but I felt like everybody on the bus pointed the door, and they went tulum. So we're like, all right. So we get off the bus, and we're in the middle of a really sketchy neighborhood, and we just start walking. I have no idea which way I'm walking. The sun is the sun. We're in kind of twilight time, right? I remember walking by this vacant lot where there's a couple burning barrels and there's stuff burning in it, and people, like, around the burning barrels. And then I remember, like, a car that's on blocks. And then luckily, we turn a corner after a couple blocks of walking fairly quickly, and I see this liquor store that has bars on the windows and bars on the door. And I'm like, okay, well, we're going in that store. We walk in the store, and here is a white woman who is maybe in her mid to late 70s, and she looks like she's been smoking Marlboro since she was 11, and she's smoking one right now. And she literally, like the little beldings. When you come in the door, the bell dings. The one takes a puff on her cigarette and goes, what the are you doing here? Which is not what you want to hear. And we're like, yeah, we're looking for Tulum Street. And she goes, oh, honey, you're a long way away from Tulum Street. Let me. Let me get you a cab. And so she calls a cab company. It takes them, like, 15 minutes to get there, and then it takes, like, 20 minutes for us to drive all the way across town to find Tulum Street. But anyway, Sean, I thought about that. So the Cancun fun. It might be the Cancun fun and the Spanish lesson. The duolingo lesson, Sean, that you really want.

[OG]

Yes. You want to pay for some sort of a learning Spanish before you go? Probably, yes.