Are You On Speaking Terms With Your Wallet? (SB1642)

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Stacking Benjamins Show – "Are You On Speaking Terms With Your Wallet?" (SB1642)
Release Date: February 10, 2025
Hosts: Joe Saul-Sehy and OG
Guest: Shawna Game, Certified Financial Planner

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Introduction and Episode Overview

In episode SB1642 of The Stacking Benjamins Show, hosts Joe Saul-Sehy and OG delve into the intricate relationship individuals have with their wallets—their financial lives. Joined by special guest Shawna Game, a certified financial planner and author of Unraveling Your Relationship with Money: Ditch Your Money Trauma So You Can Live an Abundant Life, the trio explores how emotions and personal experiences shape financial behaviors. The episode is particularly timely, coinciding with Valentine's Day week, drawing parallels between romantic relationships and financial relationships.

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Main Discussion: Relationship with Your Wallet

Analogies Between Dating and Financial Relationships

Joe and OG kick off the discussion by likening the relationship one has with their wallet to romantic relationships. Shawna emphasizes the importance of viewing money as a partner rather than a mere tool, highlighting the emotional bonds people form with their finances.

• Joe Saul-Sehy (06:00): "What if your wallet is hung over after this weekend and you're yelling at it, wondering why those credit cards got all surly. How's your relationship with your wallet? Do you guys talk to your wallet nicely or do you guys not do that?"

Emotional Aspects of Money

Shawna dives deep into the emotions tied to money, explaining how past experiences, upbringing, and societal pressures influence financial decisions and attitudes. Both hosts share personal anecdotes illustrating their struggles and growth in managing financial emotions.

• Shawna Game (16:35): "I just realized one day, like, this has got to change. Like, this is completely unhealthy, and I'm helping other people not do this, right?"

Strategies to Improve Relationship with Money

The conversation shifts to actionable strategies for listeners to mend their relationship with money. Shawna introduces the concept of creating a "money manifesto," akin to a personal credo, to define how one wishes to interact with their finances.

• Shawna Game (24:58): "I started thinking about this kind of correlation between dating someone and our relationship with money and then thinking that, oh, wow, we actually have a say. So in this, we can actually decide what we want this to look like."

Guest's Personal Stories and Insights

Shawna shares her personal journey of overcoming financial anxieties, including her experiences with divorce and managing large financial decisions like purchasing an expensive vehicle. These stories underscore the episode's central theme of emotional healing and proactive financial management.

• Shawna Game (18:14): "I bought the BMW because I am self-employed and I owed a fair amount in taxes. It ended up saving me a ton of money on my taxes. It was brilliant. But the downside was that it was a thousand-dollar-a-month payment."

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Headlines and Financial News Insights

Impact of AI on the Stock Market

The hosts transition to discussing recent financial headlines, particularly focusing on the emergence of Chinese AI chatbot DeepSea Deep6 surpassing OpenAI’s ChatGPT in App Store downloads. They analyze the immediate market reactions, such as significant stock declines in major AI-related companies like Nvidia and Oracle.

• OG (44:20): "Chinese AI chatbot DeepSeek has displaced OpenAI's ChatGPT as the most downloaded app on the App Store, leading to a market panic. Stocks for major AI-connected companies like Nvidia fell big time that Monday morning following the news."

Media's Role in Financial Perceptions

Joe criticizes the financial media's tendency to sensationalize news for better headlines, often creating unnecessary panic or hype around transient events.

• Joe Saul-Sehy (52:14): "The financial news industry knew what a great headline this was. They’re even doubling down and hoping that you'll pay to get the quote hidden secret that we're all looking for that doesn't exist."

Importance of Diversification in Investing

Shawna and OG discuss the significance of diversification, especially in volatile markets. They argue that a well-diversified portfolio can withstand market fluctuations better than one heavily invested in a single sector.

• OG (57:55): "If your goals don't change, your portfolio doesn't change. If you're looking at the day-to-day news and thinking you have to react, you're doing it all wrong."

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Community Segments

Book Recommendations

The hosts highlight Aaron Wade’s Mac and Cheese Millionaire and Seth Godin’s Strategy as top picks from Porchlight Books’ 2025 list. They discuss the entrepreneurial spirit showcased in these books and congratulate the authors on their recognition.

• Joe Saul-Sehy (63:36): "Aaron Wade’s book was prominently displayed at the bookstore, even though it came out in September. Good stuff."

Listener Reviews

They share positive listener feedback, likening the show to a "morning drive time show" that balances financial advice with entertainment.

• Shawna Game (65:11): "It’s like a morning drive time show, which is awesome because that’s kind of what we’re going for."

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After Show: Light-Hearted Stories

In the after-show segment, Joe, OG, and Shawna engage in humorous conversations about unrelated topics, such as dinosaur fossils and quirky COVID-era memes. This segment provides a relaxed conclusion to the episode, showcasing the hosts' camaraderie and ability to blend financial discussions with everyday humor.

• Joe Saul-Sehy (71:29): "They were obsessing with something called chip dip. No idea what was going on there."

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Key Takeaways

1. Emotional Connection with Money: Understanding and healing the emotional aspects of one's financial relationship is crucial for healthy money management.
2. Proactive Financial Strategies: Creating a personal financial manifesto can guide positive interactions with money.
3. Media Literacy in Finance: Being cautious of sensationalized financial news can prevent unnecessary panic and promote better investment decisions.
4. Diversification is Key: A diversified investment portfolio is more resilient against market volatility.
5. Balanced Financial Education: Integrating financial advice with entertainment makes financial literacy more accessible and enjoyable.

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Notable Quotes

• Joe Saul-Sehy (06:00): "How's your relationship with your wallet? Are you romantically involved or not even on speaking terms?"
• Shawna Game (24:58): "We actually have a say. So in this, we can actually decide what we want this to look like."
• OG (44:20): "Chinese AI chatbot DeepSeek has displaced OpenAI's ChatGPT as the most downloaded app on the App Store, leading to a market panic."
• Shawna Game (57:55): "If your goals don't change, your portfolio doesn't change."

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This episode of The Stacking Benjamins Show masterfully intertwines personal finance discussions with relatable analogies and engaging storytelling, making complex financial topics accessible and entertaining for listeners.

Transcript

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

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[OG]

No, we don't really party. Plus I didn't really care for this year's super bowl, so.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, well, Mr. I don't like winners.

[OG]

Yeah, it's just so tired of the Chiefs and the Eagles.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

But there's always the commercials, though. There's the commercials, there's the friends, there's the beer. No, he's like, no, I don't do commercials.

[Shawna Game]

I don't do friends.

[OG]

Right.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, more like friends up with beer.

[OG]

Yeah, no, I'm about this. No, no drinking kick for a while.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, horrible. I'm not a Twitter OG Sucks. It sucks.

[OG]

Yeah. So bad.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Gotta stop that. You gotta quit quitting.

[OG]

It's the worst thing imaginable.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. You know who's a friend of mine? Those men and women serving our military on the front lines. Well, we all had super bowl weekend this weekend. Whether you ignored it like OG or had a great time with it like neighbor Doug and I did. On behalf of the men and women Making podcast in mom's basement. The men and women at Navy Federal Credit Union serving our troops. Here's to you. Thanks for all you do. And let's go stack some Benjamins this week, huh?

[Shawna Game]

Thanks, everybody.

[OG]

Semper, semper, semper, Gumby.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

All right, Sherry, the courtship is over. Oh, the adoration. Oh, the chevo door. You are my peanut. I am your pretor.

[Shawna Game]

Live from Joe's mom's basement, it's the Stacking Benjamin show. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And here's a question to kick off Valentine's Day week. How's your relationship with your wallet? Are you romantically involved or not even on speaking terms? Today we welcome the perfect wallet therapist to restore your relationship. Certified financial planner Shawna Game plus in our headline, the stock market sank a couple of weeks ago on news that the cost of new good AI had undercut the cost of US based AI by a ton. What happened and how does that news affect your wallet? Will share and I'll come soaring in like an eagle. Or is that like a chief? Who won the game? We don't know. Mom wouldn't let us stay up and watch it. Either way, I'm swooping in with some of my incredible trivia. And now two guys who think recessions are just the economy's way of playing hard to get. It's Joe and. Oh, Juju. Ja ja G.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Hey, stackers. Who needs a Super bowl when you have the super bowl of personal finance every Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Welcome back to the Stacky Benjamin show. We're so happy you're here. Sit back and relax because it's time for an hour of financial fun with our guy across the card table. Mr. OG is here. How are you, man?

[OG]

Oh, just living the dream. One, one cup of coffee at a time.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Absolutely fantastic day in America because either that team in Philadelphia or that team in Kansas City. One who knows?

[OG]

One of these days we'll get this day off. Like what we do it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

This should be a national holiday, though.

[Shawna Game]

No, it should not.

[OG]

Why? It doesn't need to be a national holiday. It just needs to be timed around a national holiday.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

How many people do you think all of a sudden got the flu this morning? Like, called in and went, oh, there's.

[Shawna Game]

There's data on that. I'm sure there's a ton. The game will get moved to a Saturday before we get a national holiday. That's my prediction. Before we.

[OG]

I think it's going to go plus a week and it turns into President's day weekend.

[Shawna Game]

Okay, that's fine too, but we're not adding stuff to the federal calendar for this. That's a. Maybe a more likely scenario.

[OG]

Department of governmental efficiency won't allow it. They're taking holidays away from now on. You guys don't work enough.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

We're freezing all the holidays. I think that's a great idea because not only do we get the day off, not everybody, but a ton of people get the day off. And you can buy a mattress half off on that day all in one. It's fantastic place.

[Shawna Game]

Then watch the game in bed.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

A place to sleep with you off your hangover.

[Shawna Game]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

What if your wallet is hung over after this weekend and you're yelling at it, wondering why those credit cards got all surly? How's your relationship with your wallet, OG you talk to your wallet nicely or do you guys not doing that?

[OG]

Well, I'm very angry with it right now. As a matter of fact, it was tax day, so I had to. There's property taxes due. Just. Just not a great day.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

But that's not your wallet's fault, man. It's not your wallet's fault the property taxes were due.

[OG]

I mean, I'm going to take it out on.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Sounds like OG Needs Shauna games help as much as anybody.

[OG]

Might not be your fault, but it's your responsibility.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Smack.

[Shawna Game]

Yeah. I'm just picturing him, the wallets on the counter. He's got like a billy club in his hand. He's just going after it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Maybe OG needs a little. A little lesson in learning to love your wallet.

[Shawna Game]

Anger management said everybody, every day we've.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Got Shawna game here. She asked this question that really surprised me, which was, would you date your wallet? And I was like, it's Valentine's day week. When I date my wallet. Oh, there. There are days I'm like, I love you, wallet. And there's other days where I'm like, wallet, go away. Absolutely not. So to kick off Valentine's Day week, we're going to increase make better the relationship with your wallet. Shauna Game is not only the host of everybody's talking money, she also is a woman who's been a financial planner helping people for a long, long time. Now she talks a lot about the emotions behind your money. We're going to dive into that on today's show. But first, we have some sponsors who make sure this show is free. Way better, way, way, way better sponsor spots than the ones you saw yesterday on the Super Bowl. I mean, really check these out. And then Shaa gain. Coming down to the basement to help us start dating our wallet again. And here to help off Valentine's day week and how to date our money. Shauna games here. How are you?

[Shawna Game]

Woo.

[Doug]

I'm excited. I'm dressed for the occasion.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You totally are.

[Doug]

I'm here. I'm for it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I thought it was funny because I kind of sabotaged you with this. I said, hey, guess what we're going to talk about. And then you're like, I know.

[Doug]

Look, I came so prepared. We must have some sort of like, cosmic connection or something.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Mental telepathy going on. Absolutely. Well, we have one thing in common that I found out at the beginning of your latest project. It sounds like you and I, when we were kids, neither of us liked roller coasters. You. You weren't a big roller coaster lover.

[Doug]

I have hated roller coasters. You know, as a kid, it was like, oh, that's the cool thing you do. Like peer pressure. Get on the roller coaster. And the first time I rode one that went upside down, I just am like, nope, never again. I'm sticking in the kitty section.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, that's so funny. I was afraid of roller coasters, but then I rolled the one close to me, which was Cedar Point, being a midwestern guy, and they had the corkscrew. I remember going upside down. Kind of changed my mind on roller coasters. I was like, that was cool. But like, the rickety ones with the up down. Shaking my teeth out. Yeah. No, Shawna, nuh.

[Doug]

I have like a hard pass. You know, I'm like the killjoy at a felt like. I'm like, I'll go have for the snacks. I'll hang out with the kids, you know, that are short and they can't ride the rides. But no, I'm good.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, wait a minute. So how is your relationship with money like a roller coaster? Like, why this analogy?

[Doug]

Yeah, it was like the closest thing for me personally that I could use to describe it being just like, you're saying, like this rickety old, you know, roller coaster that's kind of like creaking and you're not sure. Like, is this thing stable? Like, you know, should I check on my life insurance policy before we get going? You know, and then there's. You go up, you go down, and there's these big, like, peak moments where, you know, you peak and then you just lose your stomach. And that has been my journey. You know, I've been an entrepreneur my entire career, and I can't liken anything closer to riding a roller coaster. At least for me than that. It hasn't been smooth for me. I've probably made, you know, all the mistakes you can make, and I'm still on the ride, but now, you know.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It'S that the ride's coming. You know, there's going to be peaks and valleys, ups and downs. It's funny because I started to get used to roller coasters when my dad's best friend's wife, sue, she knew I was afraid of roller coasters. And there was this roller coaster called the Mine Ride, which was the babiest of baby roller coasters. And I was like, yeah, I'm not going on it. She goes, come on, I'm going to ride with you. And she literally, like, drags me on it, and I'm so afraid. She said, think of it as a race car and you are in control, and you're leaning into the corners, and you're really getting into the downhill and you're looking ahead. And it's so funny because I thought when you were comparing it to a roller coaster, I'm like, that's been my relationship with money, too. At first, I was afraid as hell. I'm like, you know, I'm going to flip off this. I'm going to puke all over everybody. This is going to be nasty, too. No, man, this is a ride. And when I lean into it, I'm like, oh, really? It's going down. We're going to make baby go. Or when it goes up and around a corner, like, I'm going to lean into the corner. You know what I mean?

[Doug]

I love that. I love thinking about it from that perspective, because you're right, you know, if we think about, you know, when you're driving a car, right, and you're driving on ice, it's like you go the opposite direction to smooth your car out, right? So I. I love that analogy. Or thinking about it, that way of leaning into it and embracing it. And I think instead, you know, most of my journey has felt like when I feel the twists and turns coming, it's like, okay, here comes the fear. Like, let's tighten the seat belt. But that's when you tend to make even worse decisions with your money.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, well, no, that is true. You're like, yeah, I'm going to buy more of this because it went down. I'm, oh, it's an individual stock. I'm going to be fine. We also had you on today, though, to talk about dating. About dating. Your money, specifically. Dating. Your money is also a roller coaster. I mean, I Mean, the dating world, number one. Shawna, you've been through it. I've been through it. It's been a long time for me. Think it's been a while for you, but some of the dating stories that you shared. Oh, my goodness. Like, dating. What a roller coaster this can be, too.

[Doug]

Yeah. 13 years ago, you know, match.com was the thing. 13 years ago, and I had been divorced, and it was New Year's Eve 2012, I believe I made a huge amount of cookie dough. Like, an insane amount of cookie dough. And I had a bottle of champagne, and I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna go on mash.com tonight. I'm gonna eat my cookie dough. I'm gonna drink my champagne. And there I went, made my profile.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

This sounds like a great night, by the way.

[Doug]

Totally. It was a fantastic night. And I had a couple of rules. One, I was only gonna go out with people who messaged me first. Two, I was only going to go for a coffee date. And three, I was only going to do it if. And I've never been like this. But the man paid, and I went on some very fascinating dates. So many different stories. Lots of lessons about money and quality and all sorts of things that came up. But I met my husband on match.com. i actually kept seeing his profile, and he was outside of the radius. I lived in Los Angeles, and he lived in Long beach, which, if you know anything about la, that's it. Might as well be on the East Coast. Yeah. And I reached out to him. I mean, I just. I broke every single rule that I had set for myself. Turns out it ended up working out well. But, yeah, online dating has to be the most interesting experience ever.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I want to keep bridging the gap between the two of these. A lot of the time when things are going badly, whether it's in the dating world or with your money, you don't want to look at it.

[OG]

Right.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You're like, if I don't look at it, this will go away. I was very surprised to find out you dating your money. You didn't want to go to the ATM machine. Well, you would go to the ATM machine, but how come you didn't want to look at your ATM balance? I mean, that's like going out with somebody and going, yeah, I really don't want to talk to you. Which, by the way, was my junior prom. That was totally my junior prom.

[Doug]

You did the. The awkward dance.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It actually wasn't me. I wanted to talk to her. I don't Know why she said yes? She. She go on the thing with me. And then the entire time we were at the dance, she didn't to talk to me at all.

[Doug]

Look, what she missed out on, I didn't get.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I know. What a prize.

[Doug]

I know. Seriously, you are. But, yeah, you know, this is like such a great story of how money is emotional and irrational, because if I looked at my ATM receipts, my head immediately would start subtracting out all the bills I. I had to pay. And before I know it, in like a nanosecond, I would be broken, My home would be repossessed. I would have to live on the street. I would be a failure. Like, I would take my brain down that spiral, because for me, numbers just multiply. Personally, I mean, I'm really good at helping other people with their numbers, but me, personally, I was terrible with this kind of story that I would tell myself.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

So it's like the joke about the mechanic in their own car, a thousand.

[Doug]

Percent cobbler in their shoes. Yeah. I mean, I just. I wouldn't look, and I would create all these origami kind of cranes and animals and, like, shove them in my wallet, and I would just would never look at them. Because for me, it was. It did such a mental, you know, disaster in my brain that I just couldn't take myself there.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It would seriously just freak you out.

[Doug]

It would just freak me out. It would absolutely freak me out. And I just realized one day, like, this has got to change. Like, this is completely unhealthy, and I'm helping other people not do this, right? I'm helping other people look at the ATM receipt. And that's when I really started to just kind of peel the onion layers back and realized that I had grown up in a family that really placed a lot of focus on status and money and stuff, and that was the equation of success as a human being. So when I looked at these ATM receipts, if it wasn't what I thought should be there, I immediately would take myself to that place of, I'm not a good person. I'm not a good human. You know, I should not be a money expert. I mean, I would do the loop de loop. So I just avoided that, you know, And I think of so many people who. Who have that same experience where, you know, when you're dating someone, like, maybe there's a big red flag that comes up.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

But hold on a second, Shauna, because, you know, we see these ostentatious displays of wealth when we see people and we assume stuff. And I Bet for people on the dating scene now, they see this, right? You see somebody's profile, they've got everything together, they have all these displays of wealth, they dress in designer clothes, right? Everything looks good. You're somebody, by the way, that while you've got all of this going on in your head where you don't look at your receipt, you bought yourself a BMW.

[Doug]

There's even more of a depth to the story that I disclose in the book. But I bought the BMW because I am self employed and I owed a fair amount at taxes. And I had learned like, oh, if I buy this suv, I can do this tax write off. And it ended up saving me a ton of money on my taxes. It was brilliant. I mean it actually really worked very well. But the downside of it was that it was, you know, like a thousand dollar a month payment. And a couple months later I ended up getting divorced. And so, you know, I had to pay for the 60 or $70,000 SUV all myself, you know, so it basically undid. I had no idea, you know, that that all was going to transpire. But you know, I definitely made some decisions around stuff and things that, you know, I just had no right doing. But that was what was emulated to me. And I also lived in Los Angeles and you know, a lot of the clients I was working with were super wealthy. So you know, me showing up in a expensive car somehow, yeah, put me on an even playing field and absolutely do not buy a car for those reasons or anything.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Back when I started, it was before, you know, fee only financial planning. And so I'm with one of the big brokerage firms, right, and there was a manager there who said that you need to buy a really expensive car, so you have a huge car payment, so you come in motivated every day to sell some stuff. Is that just the dumbest, most backward thinking or what?

[Doug]

It is, it is. But it really goes to show the crazy sort of complexity of money, that it isn't just about these numbers which we, we talk about on both of our shows. Like there's just so much there to cover. It's funny, people always ask me like, are you tired of talking about money? And sometimes yes, sometimes yes. But there's so much to talk about because it's, it's so complex.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, let's go back to the ATM machine because I'm, I'm fascinated about how you finally overcame this like fear of the ATM mach. And I laugh, but it truly isn't funny. I mean, I remember when I was a financial Planner. I had these great clients, Arnie and Carla. And Arnie said to me one day, he's like, joe, I absolutely love you. I love working with you. Every time I leave here, I feel great. He goes, but I have to tell you, because I think people don't tell you this, but I think we all feel it coming to see you is like going to the dentist. And I said, what does that mean?

[Doug]

And.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And he goes, I love the way my teeth feel when I leave the dentist. And I'm so happy. I went, but I don't want to go. I don't want to go. I don't want to look at it. I want nothing to do with it. And then I come out of here, I feel empowered. I feel great. Like, is that what happened when you finally looked at your ATM receipt?

[Doug]

Yeah, it was. And it was actually the day that I had left my house and separated from my ex husband at the time.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

There's a lot of crap.

[Doug]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

In this day.

[Doug]

There's a lot of crap in this day. And I walked away with my very expensive BMW, we've now established, and a blue suitcase filled with whatever I could stuff in there and went to the ATM and had to take money out. And I thought, you know what? If there is ever a time to just look at that receipt, this is the time. When I did it, I thought, okay, this isn't so bad. Like, what in the world have I been? Yeah, right. There were moments later where it went really awry.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

But I'm laughing because it's not funny, by the way.

[Doug]

But it is.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It is in hindsight, because you live through it.

[Doug]

It's painful, funny. Yeah, it's because I lived through it. Exactly. So, yeah, it was just one of those moments where I thought, I have to do this. And it took me quite a few times to kind of have a pep obsession with myself every time I would go to look at that little piece of paper. I mean, it was a. A little piece of paper with numbers on it. So bizarre that it would cause, you know, such just an emotional reaction. But, you know, that happens in one way or another for most of us. You know, just like you were saying with your. With your client. Right. It feels good at the end, but the going through it part, man, that just. That just sucks.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, but I feel like. What's that old phrase? The only way is through. Right?

[Doug]

Yep.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

The stoics. When you're getting your dating life together, you created this thing called the list. And the list is this idea of all these traits that you want your ideal mate to have. And you said a few of them earlier, right? Like, one of them was, you only go out if he pays on the first date. What were some of the other ones?

[Doug]

Well, I changed in my list, my actual list that I created, I changed some of those things that was more my dating list, but my list, actually, my therapist said, I want you to create a list of the person that you want to kind of bring into your life, if you will. And I want you to think about, from this perspective now of being married before and, you know, way too long of a story to tell on this podcast, but basically I walked away with nothing. The way the divorce settlement worked in California was I basically got nothing and a lot of debt. So, you know, from that perspective, thinking about going forward. And, you know, I used to think, yeah, I want somebody with a super stable job and I want somebody who's got, you know, this great 401k and, you know, all the things monetarily wise to check off. But then I thought, I've seen those things go away for people. Those things went away from me. So if I'm solely basing my relationship on those things, I'm putting it back on another kind of rocky ground. And I said, you know, I want to find somebody that literally, if I had to live in a box on the street, we would be laughing, we would have a good time, we would still have things to talk about. Of course, I never wanted that experience to happen, but that was how I approached, like, writing this list from that perspective. And I think it opened up for me a way to have a relationship with my current husband who has a completely different financial background than I have, and not place as much importance on those things that I know could just come and go so easily.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Did you ever read the Rosie Project?

[Doug]

I did not.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

So the Rosie Project is a book that I learned first about by reading. Bill Gates comes out with his reads every year about these, you know, and usually they're these heady books about tech and stuff and. And being a money guy, I ignore two thirds of those. But what's interesting was he had this book that's back when he was married to Melinda. He said, my wife and my daughter recommended these, and they had. I don't remember, they got it from the Oprah Book Club or something to do with Oprah Winfrey. And it is this story about this professor who's kind of on the spectrum, and he makes this list and it's all the things he thinks an ideal mate should be because of the fact that he doesn't want to waste anybody's time. And what's hilarious is he goes to these speed dating things and he just starts asking the question, how much do you weigh? Like, oh, my God.

[Doug]

Have an emotional reaction to that.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

The book is so funny because they never tell you that he's kind of on the spectrum, but you read it and you know immediately. And when he's describing people, he's like, so then the overweight woman gets up again and you're like, no, no, no, no, no. It's just horrible. But then he finds out. And to your point, because you'd already been through this before and you knew really what you were looking for, you find that the perfect mate for you is not this initial list you might have had or didn't have. It might not be, hey, the person looks like they're your clothes, they have a designer car. I'm looking for this person that even if they don't have money, we're going to be fine. But you connect this in such a cool way too. You kind of got to make this list with your money. Like, we gotta have. We gotta have this list of traits that we want our money to be. Tell me what that looks like and how do we get that done?

[Doug]

Yeah, I think, you know, this idea of relationship to money sometimes for people is a little like, you know, a little bit of a head scratcher. But if you think about it, the probably longest relationship you have with any thing outside of yourself is money. It's the thing that's going to follow you pretty much for the rest of your life. And I liken it to dating a partner. Because if we went on a date on someone and they talk bad about us or they shamed us, or, you know, they called us names or whatever we tend to do internally ourselves around money and our mistakes, or the things we wish we would have done, or all of those things, we would never date that. Hopefully never date that person or we would get away from them pretty quickly, right? That's just not what we would want to do. So I started thinking about this kind of correlation between dating someone and our relationship with money and then thinking that, oh, wow, we actually have a say. So in this, we can actually decide what we want this to look like. And I think that's something that not a lot of people think about, right? How we grew up and the sort of beliefs that we carried from our childhood and how those maybe might impact us now. But we don't spend a lot of time thinking about what do I want this thing to actually look like? And, oh, I actually get to create that. You know, so in the book, I talk about writing a money manifesto, and I talk about Apple's manifesto that they talk about. And, you know, companies have these kind of like, credos that they live by, and I thought, well, why not create that for my own relationship with money? And it's sort of like my. It's like my reminder of how I want to interact with this thing, how I want it to show up in my life, and how much importance I want to put on this thing. And for me, those things have been game changers in helping me not get so trapped in kind of the monkey brain that I can get trapped in of, like, oh, I should have done this, or I made this mistake, or, you know, it's. It's really trying to find a place where we let go of a little bit of that judgment of shame and just like we would want, you know, from a partner.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You and I have been doing this for a long time, and I have to tell you, I've never once thought about the question, would you date your money? And I have to tell you, when I got to that point in your new book on this, I just tripped over it. I stopped him. Like, man, there are plenty of times when I wouldn't have just a. The way I treated it. I wouldn't treat a person that way, the way I felt about it. No. And then I started thinking that my money's bringing none of the emotion. I'm bringing all the emotion to this relationship. And then I start thinking about the difference, because, you know, I've heard people talk about money trauma, and I get that, and you definitely do that, talk about that. But this idea about all this emotion that I bring to it in a way that for me was so approachable with Valentine's Day coming, was a whole new thing. And I think we all have had those days. I'm sure everybody listening is nodding their head right now, going, oh, there's days I treated money bad, baby.

[Doug]

Real bad.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

We are like a blues song.

[Doug]

We are definitely. We're going way down. We're going way down in blue Song, you know, And I think what fascinates me about thinking about money from that perspective is for me, I'm always trying to figure out, you know, the sticking point, like the point where people get stick stuck to me. I'm, like, super fascinated by what is that for us as humans, because through my experience, and you probably would say the same thing, it Isn't the numbers. It isn't the math of it. We can create the best strategy for the math piece, but most people don't do that. So I really became fascinated with what is that? Like, what is the quicksand? What is the place that people are getting stuck? You know, And I think that when we think about dating, you know, would I date my money? It's looking at it from that kind of perspective of like, oh, my gosh, have I been, like, so mean or, like, terrible person to this? This thing called money is. What is it in that that I can, you know, kind of work through that might help me get to the place I want to get to? Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

This isn't about how many zeros there are in your net worth. And you make a big point of this that, you know, it comes to your relationship with money. You talk about. I think the phrase that you used was when you were practicing as a financial planner, you met people with a ton of money.

[Doug]

I think you said, oh, yes.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Who were still deeply unhappy about their money. Like, deeply unhappy about their money.

[Doug]

And I think that's a big myth that, you know, as many times as I say it, I still feel like it doesn't always register with people. But, yeah, I worked with a couple that had, I would say, well over a hundred million dollars in assets, and they never had talked about money. And there were all of these assumptions that they had of each other, and they got in a situation where the husband got a little over his head with some credit card debt and credit cards. The wife had no idea of this. You know, we sat down and it's this highly charged situation where I'm essentially like, one person is on one side, one person's on the other side, and I'm in the middle trying to, you know, navigate this conversation. And that, for me, was a big turning point because I'm like, gosh, if these people that have all of this money and what I'm telling them seems so simplistic, like, okay, well, let's just look at where the money's going. Let's just follow the path, let's see where we want it to go, and let's have a conversation about it. I mean, that seems so simplistic, but for them, it was the hardest thing in the world. We're never going to do it. And instead we want to just kind of build up these walls between each other. And I think that happens so much, whether we're in a partnership or we're just ourselves interacting.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. Like our self talk like the self talk you were having with the ATM machine.

[Doug]

Thousand percent. Yeah. That ATM machine and I, we have exchanged some. Some really bad words, let me tell you. I have driven around, you know, back when I used to go to the atm, circles and circles and circles before, I, you know, told myself, okay, just go to the machine. Like, this is insane.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You have this game you play called Money Truth or Dare, which also stopped me in my tracks. I'm like, truth or dare? And I think that, you know, the Valentine's Day Truth or dare, kind of a fun thing. Your very first Truth or dare, I thought would be fun for you and I to do.

[Doug]

Let's go for it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You write. What's one money secret you have you've never shared with anyone? Do you want to go first? You want me to go first?

[Doug]

Ooh, let's let you go first.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Here's the thing, because I thought about this. So Mind Stackers is not very big right now, but I'll explain why here in a second. My big thing I've never shared with anybody, and it's mostly because of what I do, is that on a daily basis, I generally have no idea the amount of money in my bank account. And I know it's not very much, by the way, because I've designed these systems, but I still don't look at it very much. And I still have that kind of, you know, the old days, it was the atm. Now it's just pulling up the app. I'm like, yeah, I don't want to look at my checking account. I just don't want to look. I just don't. I don't know. And it's never a ton of money there, but I just don't look. And for somebody that does what I do, I've never told anybody that, and that's not a very big one. But I'll tell you why. The thing that has been my therapist over the last 14 years, Shauna, more and more, has been this podcast. Yeah, I've told all the stories now that people don't tell. And I have to tell you that walking through this Truth or dare over the last 14 years and daring myself to say the stuff out loud that I've effed up has been huge and horrifying. Every time I've done it, like, all of the money goes that people have heard about Joe and his money. But the cool thing, I'll tell you, is that it's also been very empowering for other people, which has been really great, which was my goal. It wasn't to say, hey, I f this up, but it was the point that we can eff it up and we'll still be okay. But that's why it's not that big for me. But still, I only did this because I want to hear yours. Let's be real, right?

[Doug]

Let's be real. Hill. Well, I dish a lot of them in the book, but I would say probably one of my biggest money secrets right now is I absolutely. I don't like talking to my husband about money. Like, it is something I avoid to the point of. Again, just ludicrously, like, it doesn't make sense because, again, know what I'm doing.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Know how to have the conversation. But, yeah, just avoid that all the way around.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

How do you get around that?

[Doug]

Luckily, there's a lot of trust. But, yeah. Let's just say that it definitely has come up in a few therapist sessions.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Where the therapist is looking at me like, you're the money expert. Like, what's going on? I'm like, I don't know. Still a thing. Still don't sometimes want to bring it up and talk about it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That's where Cheryl and I had to start having our little weekly meeting, like, our very short meeting. All we do is look at last week, how we spent money, talk about we're going to spend money next week, do it over wine or pancakes, and we're done.

[Doug]

Because.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, I had the same issue. I totally had the same issue. Did not like to. And initially, when we started doing it, too, there was a little bit of a judginess, you know, getting to your story about those clients. You know, when he was messing up with the credit cards, the story you just told.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Immediately she judged him, which is exactly what he was afraid of. But still, it made them closer.

[Doug]

It did. You know, to an extent, it did make them closer. I thought I was gonna have to pull out the boxing gloves at you know, in. Some. Some. Definitely some guards for me, particular point in time. But it did, you know, And I think that's the thing we're talking about this idea of, you know, would you date your money? Right. It's all of these things that feel so scary and feel so judgmental when we just do them or we have the conversation or we just look or whatever it might be. For any one of us, it's a lot better. Right. It's just what you're saying, like, it's easier on the backside. And then we feel that, like, oh, that wasn't so bad, or that was Easier or yeah, I don't want to have this relationship with my money. But, you know, we're humans and we have behaviors and patterns and then we end up doing the same thing again. So we kind of go through these, you know, cycles until hopefully one day we realize, like, oh, it actually would be a lot better if we just avoided this. Not avoid looking at it, but we avoided all of this kind of crazy stuff that we put up ahead of time and just got to the sweet spot. Always.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. But again, I think sometimes the only way is through.

[Doug]

The only way. The only way.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Holy way. Oh, this is just the beginning. I love the list and I love how you change the negative talk in the list to positive talk because you're the only one that can do that. And you decide how you're going to date your money, how your relationship with your money is going to go, and you bring all of that to the table. This is just the beginning. The book is called unraveling your relationship with money. Ditch your money trauma so you can live an abundant life. And this thing is coming out in just over a week.

[Doug]

Just over a week. Yeah. There's still some great pre order bonuses. If you're excited about that, you can go to my website, everyonestalkingmoney.com book.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That's what I love about the pre orders. I love that I get this other stuff that people don't get. And I love the fact that I help an author that I absolutely love, that I love their work and I'm the first one to have it. Like, how cool is that?

[Doug]

That's pretty cool. Yeah, I love it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Shauna, Happy Valentine's Day to you. Oh, I got one more question for you.

[Doug]

Oh, let's go for it.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yes. So let's tell a story about you and Jeff because this is, this is a fantastic story. So you go on these dates, you go on this date with this dude who like, literally the waiter comes up and says, yeah, I'll have a something something. Doesn't even think about you ordering anything to drink. Like some of these weird ass dates you have. And then you go meet Jeff. And Jeff, as you said earlier, lives like a bajillion miles away. How'd the first date go? What ended up happening on date one?

[Doug]

Well, date one, we met at a restaurant actually between us, and it was actually like it came out of a match.com commercial, literally. But date two, he invited me to his place in, in Long beach, which was again, was very far away. And I thought as I'm driving there I'm like, this is insane. I'm going to some strange person's house, right?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You've never met somebody, you're going to their house.

[Doug]

What am I doing? But one of the lines, you know, back in old day, match.com, you had it like a header line on your profile. And I put that I always eat dessert first. So I had gone down there, and, you know, when I got there, he said, okay, well, we're gonna get in the car and go somewhere, you know, like, super close here. And I'm like, okay. He's like, well, we're gonna go have dessert first. And so we went to this, like, cupcake place and had cupcakes. And I thought, okay, all right.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

He's listening.

[Doug]

This guy listens.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

This dude's not ordering first.

[Doug]

This guy is not ordering first. And, you know, it's as many cupcakes as I want. So I knew I was like, I'm, you know, kind of sold there. I mean, not only that, but I have to just sell one other story super quick. My ex husband, I always said, you know, lovingly, of course, couldn't see beyond his own nose. I had gone on a trip with him to Paris, and I drank way too much. I needed, like, a baguette and water, and he would, you know, not be helpful. And it was, you know, terrible, Horrible. I had to get off the subway in Paris. So I told Jeff this story on our first date, and he actually picked me up from an airport about a week after we met. And in the car was a baguette and water, and I thought, done.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, happy Valentine's Day, Shawna.

[Doug]

Same to you, Joe.

[Shawna Game]

Hey there, stackers. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and happy Valentine's Day week, everyone. I'm super excited about this date because it's nearly the time that I head down to the Sizzler in my best Superman shirt and dazzle misses Neighbor Doug with my super superb ordering skills. She's a big fan, as is everyone else, of the way I'm able to navigate the menu, but I could say words like the usual. It's incredible. So incredible, in fact, that they reply with words like, and exactly what would that be? There's such teases, and I say words like, you know, kidder, and then they wink. Or they get dust in their eye and say something coy like, no, really, What? What do you want to order? It's so much fun. No matter how it goes, Benjamins leave my pocket because I'm a money flower, not a shower if you know what I mean. We've all seen the stats. Young men shell out for a date like 90% of the time, while women pick up the check 2% of the time. The other 8%? Well, that's called going Dutch. As I've always said, I'm in the top 90% of all men. That also didn't seem to register with the guy behind the register at the Sizzler either. Here's a dating question. When people are choosing a date, do both men and women prefer a date? Who's older than them, younger than them, or the same age? I'll be back with the answer right after I pack some coupons for our big date. Nothing says I love you more than five bucks off the bone in ribeye.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

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[Shawna Game]

How high is the interest rate for the new Laurel Road High Yield Savings account?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

This high?

[Shawna Game]

The air is really, really thin up here. The Laurel Road Very High Yield Savings.

[OG]

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[Joe Saul-Sehy]

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[Shawna Game]

Hey there, stackers. I'm steak fanatic and one guy who staked his fortune on being the world's best trivia purveyor, Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. I said purveyor. Purveyor. There was an end to it. Purveyor. Today kicks off a week of soiled sheets, pillowcases strewn everywhere, and, you know, blankets asunder. Because it's. It's laundry week. That's why. In other news, it's also Valentine's day week. And today's question asks, who are you going to spend your Benjamins trying to impress this holiday? When dating, do men and women prefer people who are older, younger, or the same age? It turns out that people prefer to date someone younger than them. I never knew that. Well, so much for my fake ID saying I'm 7 75. Time to change it to say I'm 16. And now two guys helping you identify with your money. Joe and OG.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I don't think that's gonna go well, Doug.

[Shawna Game]

Change into 16.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I'm gonna go for 2636. Nobody would even believe either of those numbers.

[Shawna Game]

But hey, I mean, premature gray is kind of a. Don't they call them zaddies Zaddies nowadays or something?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I don't. I don't know what that means.

[OG]

What does that mean?

[Shawna Game]

I don't. I just. I see things.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, man. Hey, let's get into our headline. Hello, darlings. And now it's time for your favorite.

[OG]

Part of the show, our stacking Benjamin's headlines.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

A couple weeks ago. Oh, gee. We had some big news that made the stock market. Speaking about getting weak in the knees. Stock market got weak in the knees. This is from tech site Gizmodo. Chinese AI Deep Sea Deep 6 is OpenAI on the app store and Stockstone tank. I like that. Deep Six is open AI gizmoto writers. Right? Chinese AI chatbot Deep Seek has displaced OpenAI's chat. GPT is the most downloaded app on the app store and the market is panicking. Stocks for major AI connected companies like Nvidia fell big time that Monday morning following the news. I wanted to talk about this a little bit a couple weeks later because of the fact that this is. This is so, so interesting to me. Just a great case study now that we're a couple weeks away on just the effective news on the stock market short term and how much the financial sites play on this. Upon the news that it reached the top Share prices for GPU maker Nvidia fell 11%. Believe it was off almost 20% by the end of the day. Oracle dropped 8. Palantir was down 5. Stocks are adjusting to the revelation that China can build AI faster, cheaper and just as good as America. It says here, which again is a piece I said this a couple weeks ago, is a writer trying to build a narrative around this. But when I go to the front page OG of of cnbc, the front page back on that day and I took a screenshot the day after all this. Nvidia rises 2% in tenuous bounce Tuesday following largest value loss in history. OpenAI launches chatgpt.gov for the US government agencies JetBlue shares tumble roughly 20% after disappointing outlook playing on the fact that stocks being down. Wall street still sees two rate cuts this year, but conviction is getting weaker. CNBC survey finds front page of CNBC OG all about this stock is down. That stock is down. You got to worry about this. You might have to worry about that. I mean, two weeks later, we're in many cases off and onto the next bad thing.

[OG]

I think that a lot of this is just the concept of bad news is good copy. It's interesting that you brought this up as a topic because the other thing that I saw, like kind of a counterpoint to this new AI company and we did it faster, cheaper, whatever was that's all bs. They didn't do it faster and cheaper. They're just saying they did it faster and cheaper. They being China to disrupt the American economy. And on the heels of the administration's announcement of a big investment in AI and just changing the tenor, changing the focus of the conversation. And I don't know, I'm not smart enough to have any sort of sense of what is good or not good in the AI space. But I'm not convinced that it's worth the to begin with, it's still incorrect in a lot of things. It's confident and confidently incorrect. The other thing that I find really interesting is the focus of this one particular sector. We'll talk about diversification in a second, but I found this video from this pretty famous tax person who's on YouTube that I thought was really good around using AI for tax advice because, you know, it's tax season, right? So let's use AI. Maybe we'll use Deep Seek instead of ChatGPT now, but I think you'll get the same result. Here's what she said.

[E]

Here's how social media influencers probably do their tax research. So I started by asking Chat GPT for a court case where a vehicle deduction was denied because it was used for personal purposes. It then explained all of these details on a court case called Lynch BE Commissioner. I have very expensive tax research software. So I went ahead and looked up, does Lynch BE Commissioner exist? And then we basically went back and forth where I said, is this real? And they say, oh, oops, no, that's not real. And they say, here are real cases. And then I'm like, are these real? And they would say, oh, I'm so sorry. I apologize for the confusion. Those also aren't real. And continued to give me a whole slew of fake court cases. So for actual tax court cases from a tax attorney, subscribe I saw something.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Similar og not even in the realm of taxes. It was in the realm realm of quoting an ancient and translating an ancient Chinese text. A Chinese scholar. A Chinese scholar went in and asked Chat GPT to print off the text. But the text was hundreds of pages long, and it gave the first like eight paragraphs and said, there it is, it's done. Very confidently said, it's done. He's like, no, it should have been 100 pages long. He then asked Perplexity. Perplexity said, yeah, I can't translate that for you because it would violate copyright law. Again, this text is thousands of years old. The dude who wrote it's long, long dead. There is no copyright protection on something. So wrong answer number one. Wrong answer number two actually went to deep seek, and Deep seek printed off the whole thing. Now, that doesn't prove to your point that deep seek is better, but how do you know when you're getting the right answer, right? I mean, you don't know that you're gonna. And frankly, even if it printed off these tons and tons and tons of pages, is it actually doing the right job of the translation if you don't.

[OG]

Have a way to complete Sidebar here. When I was in high school, I took six years of foreign languages, four of Latin because, you know, that makes a lot of sense.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

His six years of high school, Doug.

[Shawna Game]

He wanted to be cool during his six years.

[OG]

During my six years of high school, no, I took two languages, two years. So anyways, I have this slight class and I have to translate this paragraph, this thing, and I translate it, and it's really crappy. Translated, like, I've stopped caring about this. And basically I just kind of made up a bunch of stuff, you know, Cornelius was fighting in the gladiator bin and he was attacked by a Tiger, you know, I don't know what I was, you know, just making stuff up. And the professor comes and he says, I need to talk to you about this.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It'd be a teacher in high school, right?

[OG]

We called him professors at my school.

[Shawna Game]

Unbelievable.

[OG]

So.

[Shawna Game]

Oh, my God.

[OG]

He goes, we need to talk about this. And he sits me down. He goes, this isn't your best work. And I said, I tried really hard at this. And he says, well, what did you think of the text? And I was like, this is really ridiculous. Super hard. Nobody can translate this. This is whatever. This ancient stuff and dialects and all this stuff. And he's like. And he's really upset at me because I just have thrown in the towel. And he's like. Like, I'm the one who wrote this. Like, I'm the one who wrote this textbook in Latin. Have you not seen my name at the front of it? Like, I know that this is hard, but it's like, it's. It's current. Basically, I want to anticipate.

[Shawna Game]

I think what OG then said was, well, then I don't think you know the language, sir.

[OG]

I did.

[Doug]

You wrote this.

[Shawna Game]

This is crap.

[OG]

Just give me my f. You know, so to be fair, you could have an old text that's written by a new guy, to be fair. Slightly awkward, just kind of funny. But back to the investment side of all of this. I was surprised seeing that news on Monday and not surprised by the market reaction, whatever it is what it is. But I was really impressed with the impact of diversification. I was talking to somebody, I was talking to Doug about this, as a matter of fact, the day after, and it came up right, like, oh, my gosh, have you seen the market took a giant crap? And I said, yeah, but I don't think most money did. I think if you're really hardcore in, you know, NASDAQ or your all tech or your mag7, you probably got eviscerated on that Monday pretty good. But if you're diversified, I don't know that it was any news whatsoever.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

The Dow Jones Industrial Average was up at the end of that day.

[Shawna Game]

Yeah, actually, I think to your point a minute ago, it was definitely news. OG and it's because, you know, bad copy makes good news or whatever phrase you used. I mean, it is sensational because everybody wanted to talk about what a huge hit the market took. But I. I love your point about. Probably most investors didn't. As long as you're taking a. A pretty balanced, diversified approach to your. To your retirement funds or to Your.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

But the financial news industry knew what a great headline this was. Yeah, yeah, to the point that on CNBC's front page and I didn't mention this earlier guys, but CNBC has news that you can pay for right in in their pro section that you pay for. Here are the two pieces that appeared the following day. JP Morgan made one major buy call after Monday's AI stock route. Upgrading this networking tech stock. Don't tell you what it is, you got to find out which networking tech stock is the one that is better. And of course because we all think that there's something hidden, there's some piece of information I don't have that I need. CNBC is going to give it to me. I know there's nothing behind that paywall that I'm going to want but. Oh, hold on OG that's not the only one. The other pro piece that morning, the emergence of Deep Seek is a positive for this quote Mag seven giant analysts say again, they don't tell you which one you got to pay cnbc. So not only is the financial media making headlines on this, like I open with, they're even doubling down and hoping that you'll pay to get the quote hidden secret that we're all looking for that doesn't exist.

[OG]

A couple of weekends ago I saw on the Weather Channel transitioning into like older Gen X where like generally I just watch the Weather Channel. Like I think that's a, I think.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That'S to go hug with going to.

[OG]

Bed at 8:00pm, well 10. But in the morning, like basically from 7:40 when I wake up until about 1:00 in the afternoon you watch the Weather Channel, you know, and then you can flip it on the news after that. Over the weekend I saw a video that they were showing, you know, like crazy weather things or whatever. And it was this airplane that was hit by a lightning bolt while parked at the gate. You might have seen this. It was like literally you saw the lightning bolt like hit the tail of this aircraft three or four times in succession in this video. And I knew from watching the video that it was a video from India. So they had a thunderstorm, the plane was parked at the ramp. There wasn't any passengers on it. It was totally safe. I knew the outcome of this. Even on the Weather Channel they said they had to take the plane out of service to get a check. But you know these planes are designed to withstand lightning strikes and so, so, so then a couple of nights ago while I was going to bed, I had the, the local News on. And they showed that video. This was like probably a solid week and a half later. And Dallas was about to get some. We had a full week of bad weather coming, stormy weather, whatever. And they had highlighted that at the beginning of the newscast. Going to commercial break. They showed that video and they're like. And you know all the sensational words that you can drum up, you know, amazing video with an airplane getting hit by lightning bolt. We'll tell you where and how this impacted the flight after these dudes film.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

At 11 India weeks ago didn't.

[Shawna Game]

Yes.

[OG]

And then they came back and then they did it again. They did the teaser again. So it wasn't even like we got to it right after the commercial. Then, then they teased it, they did another bit, went to commercial and going to commercial, they teased it again and then came back and went, yeah, look at this video from Mumbai on January 9th. This. You're like, wait, dude, I waited up a half hour to see where this tragic lightning strike happened. With an airplane on the tarmac during a thunderstorm with no people on the plane. Didn't affect anything other than that plane had to go out of service for a couple hours while they checked the. You know, it's like even that sort of stuff you have to take with a grain of salt. I'm firmly more and more convinced that there is no way, especially on the Internet to take anything there as if it were gospel. My son is applying to colleges and there's all the threads about college applications and you know, who's accepted and that sort of thing. And even in so much as people saying, here are my stats and I got into this school, I had this SAT score, I had this many ap, you're going, wow, I don't know that guy got in, did he? Or maybe they just look for the validation or it's a bot or, you know what I mean?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You don't know if any of that's truthful.

[OG]

I don't know that that guy really had a 1350 SAT and got into Harvard. Maybe he just said he got into Harvard to make himself feel better. And you go, well, why would anybody do that?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

People do just say, watch this. I mean, can you imagine him sitting at the keyboard, watch this.

[Shawna Game]

Watch me break the hearts of 3017 year olds.

[OG]

Yeah, exactly. So anyways, how does this affect your investment philosophy? It really doesn't. If your goals don't change, your portfolio doesn't change. And that's the end of the story. If you're looking at the day to day news and you're thinking, you know, I have to do something with this information. I have to react to this information. You're doing it all wrong. This is not a reactionary type of investment thesis. Your investment policy statement should already say, here's what we do when the market goes down. And by the way, we've talked about this a million times. Until it's down 15%, it's not even an average year yet. So if the high water mark was January 8th, and you know, it trends down from now until April until it's down 15, it's not even average. If your account's down 10, it's. You're not even an average year yet.

[Shawna Game]

I know years ago when I started spending more time with you guys and I would make some comment about, oh, the market did this or did that, it always puzzled me when either of you would be like, oh, did it? Oh, I don't know. Okay, let me check. I'm like, how do you guys not know? How are you not not following this every minute of the day? This is what you do. You know, it took me a little while to realize you don't have to care about it on a day to day, minute by minute basis. If you're not a day trader. Basically, yeah.

[OG]

I mean, if you're a day trader, you do, right?

[Shawna Game]

But if you have a long term goal in mind and you're set up to weather those almost inconsequential little storms that happen, those squalls that come across the lake, you're like, yeah, no big. I don't even, didn't even register noticeable.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And that's specifically guys, why I like talking about this two weeks after it happened because of the fact that with two weeks perspective, maybe other people, Doug, can see what you saw during that time, which is look it out. Two weeks later you're like, what? Oh, that was. Oh yeah, that was a thing. Oh, wait a minute. But at the time, it was all anybody was talking about. I mean, it was totally all over. All my social media feed was, oh, the deep seek. What's going on here? Is this going to change everything? Is this going to completely change the game? Two weeks later we're on to new stuff. We're talking about something totally different.

[Shawna Game]

It's just licensed to be completely lazy and oblivious. Like you can just take a nap and not worry about all of this stuff that they're trying to get you to stress about. Like, no, sweetheart, don't worry about it. What happened?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I.

[Shawna Game]

It doesn't matter.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

It's fine.

[Shawna Game]

Sleep Now I'm watching Opie and Happy Days.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

If somebody's like, if I could do that with my lawn, that'd be great. Lawn will still be there.

[OG]

It'll eventually die.

[Shawna Game]

It's gonna take care of itself.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Right.

[OG]

It's kind of the opposite philosophy, though, right? Like, your lawn, you're just waiting to die. But your portfolio, you're wanting it to grow. So I don't.

[Shawna Game]

Have you seen. Do you have people in your neighborhoods that do the. Like, they'll even post a sign in their lawn and they'll. It'll say, like, returning to natural habitat or these aren't weeds. These are native plants.

[OG]

You have a ridiculous.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I gotta get those.

[OG]

We get the letters. If your. If your fence is not the right color brown. We have a pretty. We have a pretty rigid hoa. We noticed, sir, that your grass was 11 8th inch long.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah.

[OG]

You are required to cut this to one inch.

[Shawna Game]

Joe, there's a house not far from your old house, your first old house in Michigan, closer to where I was, that's doing this. And it looks horrible. And they just have a couple of these signs. It's a house on the corner. They just have a couple of signs saying, no, these aren't weeds. These are native plants. And other than like a week, a year when they bloom, it just looks like. It looks like an abandoned house.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I love that. I love that. I gotta find out where on Amazon I get those signs. Yeah. An interesting case study a couple weeks later about how Man Media CNBC jumped all over this and said, hey, this might be a way to get some more pro readers. This may be a way for us to make a little bit of cash on something that two weeks later, nothing Burger. When it comes to the stock market now, when it comes to the future of AI, we don't know. And that'll play itself out over time. We will find out. We're gonna dive more into all the topics we talk about on the show in our newsletter, the 201. It's stacking benjamin.com 201 gets you to our newsletter, comes out weekly, always free. And on top of that, you find out all the places where we're going to be. I just was in Seattle. And next week you bozos are in are in the Tahoe area, South Lake.

[Shawna Game]

Tahoe at MCP's Tap Room, that we're really just going to hang out at.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

The bar stacking benjamin.com It's a long way to go to the bar. Stacking benjamin.com meetup.

[OG]

Get you there out of RSVP, though. So we know who's coming.

[Shawna Game]

Yes, we know one. We've got one basement dweller who's. Who's committed. He's taking time off work. Like, we have to be there. We're costing this dude money. So we've got to show up and be sober.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Wow.

[OG]

Tough ass for you.

[Shawna Game]

Initially, we have to walk in the door mostly sober.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I think that's a great way to mosey out to the back porch. Our last segment of the show, our community segment, guys, I love it. I don't think we talk about this enough every year. Some of the great mentors that we have on our mentor Monday end up on these best of list. And Porchlight books just announced their top five books of 2025 about business. And two of the top five appeared on the Stacking Benjamin show this last year. Aaron Wade, Mac and cheese millionaire. Great, fantastic book about following your. Your dream. Hilarious piece up front where she's a lawyer, and you know how lawyers have billable minutes. Her goal was to have as few billable minutes as possible. She's like, something must be wrong. She's like, you know all those things where you go and you try to hang out with everybody after work so that you get to know the team better and maybe schmooze and the partners get to know you. I never went to any of those, so big surprise when I got fired from that job. She willfully got fired, ended up becoming a multimillionaire doing what she loved, which was making macaroni and cheese, which is macaroni and cheese. Never a bad option, especially if you're trying to increase your waist size.

[OG]

Ever put a little hot sauce in your Mac and cheese?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

A lot of people like that, man.

[OG]

Just a little. Just a little that. A little Worcestershire.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah.

[Shawna Game]

Interesting.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Can't do the hot sauce, huh?

[OG]

We have a great recipe for that. I'll send it to you, Doug.

[Shawna Game]

Okay. Yeah, I'd like that. I can't do straight Mac and cheese after about three bites. It's just so bland to me. So I'm always adding stuff in. Bacon or chicken and lots of garlic, usually in some season. But I haven't done hot sauce. That sounds.

[OG]

Sam, the cooking guy's got a great baked Mac and cheese. Watch that video he makes fun of Paula Deen. It's really funny.

[Shawna Game]

Aren't all Mac and cheeses baked?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

No.

[OG]

Oh, you can make it on stove.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah, you can make it on the stove.

[Shawna Game]

Yeah, if you're. If it's out of a box. But That's.

[OG]

No, we make homemade stuff out of the.

[Shawna Game]

On the stove with Velveeta. No, no, it's gotta have the browning. The edges in the corners have to be like crispy, almost hard some crunch to it. That's Mac stackers.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

What's your favorite Mac and cheese recipe? Give that to us in the basement in our favorite.

[OG]

Send it to Doug.

[Shawna Game]

Yeah, I want that song that you.

[OG]

Have to cook on the stove.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah. Make sure they're cooked on the stove.

[Shawna Game]

Zero stove recipes. It'll be deleted immediately.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Also, Seth Godin's new book Strategy appeared there. And of course, Seth was on the show back in October. So congrats to Aaron and Seth on inclusion and yet another list. I've seen them on multiple lists. In fact, I was at a bookstore last week in Dallas and Aaron Wade's book still prominently displayed, even though I think that book came out in September. Good stuff.

[Shawna Game]

Hey, Joe, we've had a couple of interesting reviews out there. Do you want to hear about any of those?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Sure.

[Shawna Game]

Just a few days ago we got one. I like this comment. It said it's like a morning drive time show, which is awesome because that's kind of what we're going for. Right. Remember the good old days, the golden days of radio where you just wanted to be entertained and maybe you're going to learn a little something. Here's some great tunes.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And it wasn't all just yuck, yuck.

[Shawna Game]

Yeah. When they had some great tunes. We're gonna have great financial advice, but in between all of that, you're gonna have some fun.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

You ever go back and watch any of the old Johnny Carson shows or the clips from it and you know, the clips they pick up are funny. But that dude had interesting. Some guests that were really deep. And then you contrast some of these deep conversations he'd have on late night TV with the late night stuff going on now where we essentially don't talk about anything for 90 minutes. Whole new world. But.

[Shawna Game]

Right.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

But yeah, yeah, in that way, definitely. You know, not the yuck yuck.

[Shawna Game]

Right. And I mean, we've been saying forever that, look, there are other places to go to totally nerd out and become a quant, you know, and get super deep into spreadsheets and analysis on. On investing stuff. That's not who we are. Right. We're. We're here to get you comfortable with the whole subject matter and then we'll help you go find those places to geek out about stuff.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Stuff like Shauna Game.

[Shawna Game]

Yeah. But for so many people, this is an intimidating topic to even start thinking about. It's like saying, hey, let's go study for the GMATs or for the SATs. And you're just like, oh God, no, I'd rather do anything rather than that. And we're here to make it or help you become more comfortable with it. So I like that this person pointed out it's like a morning drive time show. That was a great observation. We had another one. This one is far more suspect. I'm even a little reticent to even read it, but I feel like I have to because it, it pays homage to the durability, the longevity that, that we've had. It says Joe and OG keep refreshing the show. Hard to believe. Nearly 1600 episodes and 15. Yes, 15 years. Hard hitting financial news. This is not backing up what we just talked about, but you might learn a little in between all the laughter. Here's where the it really turns south mouth. OG is my favorite.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, God.

[Shawna Game]

Is what it says you're. Oh boy, that's an issue.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I actually had that last night. I was driving along with my son Nick, who's visiting, and he was talking about how much he truly enjoyed the Alex Harmosi episodes and he just devoured them and he took notes and he said, you know what's funny though, dad? When I listen to your show, I find myself always agreeing with OG And I threw up in my mouth. And then I, I stopped the car. I told him to get the hell out.

[Shawna Game]

No son of mine says if he's.

[OG]

Your favorite, maybe he can drive you to Texarkana from Dallas next time. Get out.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Like, what the hell are you talking about? Oh, gee.

[Shawna Game]

Well, every family has that, you know, the black sheep. The black sheep. I was gonna say run to the litter, but. But yeah, I mean, that general concept, I mean, wow, not good.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I paid for all that education. Still thinks OG is the number one dude on the show.

[Shawna Game]

Yeah, I mean, I'm offended too.

[OG]

For number one, at least.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Well, thanks to everybody for those kind reviews of the show. Also on Spotify, people can leave comments now. And I've been having some great discussions with people about segments of the show. So if you're on Spotify and you want to leave a comment and chat over there, that's been pretty fun for us as well. Thanks to everybody for hanging out with us here today and for hanging out with us on our Facebook group, in our newsletter, the emails that I get from people, it's all. All makes this super fun to do and can't wait for you Guys, to hear some of the fun stuff we've got coming up for you over the next several weeks. For now, that's gonna do it. Wednesday. Our usual Wild Wednesday potpourri show. Big headline, the TikTok Minute. We're going to help a stacker in need, so we'll see you in a couple days. OG thanks for hanging out. Doug, what should we have learned on today's episode?

[Shawna Game]

Well, Joe, first, take some advice from Shawna Game and be good to your money. Once you're romantically involved with your wallet, great things can happen with your money. Second, Chinese AI Rocking the stock market. Welcome to the new new thing. Talk to me in six months because by then there'll be like five other things that rock the stock market. The big lesson. Don't even hint to Joe's mom that you're headed to the Sizzler for your big date. She'll assume she's invited and grab her shoes. Now I got to explain this yet again to Mrs. Neighbor Doug. Thanks to Shawna Game for joining us today. You can find Unraveling youg Relationship Relationship with Money. Ditch your money trauma so you can live an abundant life wherever books are sold. We've curated a great book list that we're adding this to on our Favorites page on the Stacking Benjamin's website. Head to stackingbenjamins.com bookstore for Shawna's book and lots of our recent guests work. This show is the property of SB Podcasts, LLC, Copyright 2025 and is created by J. Joe Saul Sehi. Joe gets help from a few of our neighborhood friends. You'll find out about our awesome [e-mail] along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh yeah.

[Shawna Game]

And before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don't take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And we'll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Welcome to the after show. This is the part of the podcast that often has nothing to do with money. Just either. Movies, TV shows we like, sometimes video games, hilarious stuff that happens at home with our families today. Guys, I want to talk about a story that I saw online. This [e-mail] Noel Capilli wrote this. Even dinosaurs had bad days. You guys. You guys, dinosaur fans. I think, oh, gee, did you take your family to that dinosaur thing in Waco where the dinosaur bones were? No, you were talking about doing that at one point. Prehistoric artifacts, fun way to study our history because one finds out that even those before us had similar experiences. In Denmark, a random but hilarious artifact was on Earth and guess what it is. Yes. It's a 66 million year old vomit fossil. They actually found dinosaur vomit that has been fossilized. Can you imagine if there's a Pompeii moment at the same time that there's like a college keg party? And so you end up with. With these people immortalized in time. Yes. I think everybody smoked out of these weird devices.

[Shawna Game]

I want to be in the lab when they do the analysis on it. And they're like, damn it, it's just a cat. It's just more cat yak. I wanted it to be a mega stegomosaurus and it's freaking tabby.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I just love some of the dumb stuff that we do. And I just think about a bajillion years from now and they're trying to explain this. No, I think that controller in their hand was the way for them to connect with other people. It had a big X on the controller.

[Shawna Game]

We've noticed over time as we look at fossils of hand structures that they've morphed into this claw like structure. The thumbs are incredibly pronounced. That happened so fast.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Apparently they worship this deity known as Halo. No idea how that all works.

[OG]

There was that video or meme or whatever from COVID when we were all buying a bunch of toilet paper. The meme was like, basically the Earth was wiped out and the aliens were coming down, you know, and. And so everybody died. The meme was, everybody's dead because of COVID And then there's like, the next civilization is finding us, basically. And the one alien looks to the other and goes, but they had incredibly clean asses because we, you know, because the toilet paper was out. Or like they finally changed the narrative on, you know, when there's a storm, everybody buys milk, eggs and bread. And we always used to say, what is everybody doing making milk sandwiches? Like, what are you doing with two gallons of milk, four loaves of bread, you know, and it doesn't. Oh my God, the hurricane's coming. We need a gallon of milk. Four loaves of bread. Like milk sandwiches.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Because I can survive on that. That's exactly.

[OG]

Now they say French toast. They're like, you gotta make emergency French toast. The storm's coming. What do we do?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

French Toast Doug goes right for the Eggos.

[Shawna Game]

No, no. No Crunchy Cheetos. Because I'm not a psycho. I don't buy the puffed ones. That's ridiculous.

[OG]

Some ruffles at the white cheddar puffs.

[Shawna Game]

No, no. I mean, white cheddar is a fine flavoring, but never on packing material. No.

[OG]

Okay.

[Shawna Game]

It's always crunchy.

[OG]

No cheesy poofs for you.

[Shawna Game]

But I go for the snack foods. Yeah. I go for. I get a whole bunch of sour cream dip. Because that stuff, like the. The onion dip. Sour cream based onion dip. That stuff lasts incredibly long. Dude, that is, like, why is that.

[OG]

Such a delightful treat for Ruffles?

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Oh, so good.

[OG]

You know, so good. It's. It's always the unexpected because, I don't know, we just never have that stuff in our house.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I don't.

[OG]

And then it's like, wait, somebody bought chip dip? Oh, my God.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I know.

[OG]

I'm having you to my party all the time.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

When I had my nephews here a few weeks ago, we stopped at the grocery store, and of course, two teenage guys and one who's in his early 20s. They're like, oh, let's get Ruffles and chip dip. I'm like, hell, yeah. And then. And then they went to bed one night, and I decided to stay up and watch something. I got, like, a third of the way through the show I was watching. I was like, oh, you know what? We good right now. So I go out there and sneak open the Ruffles and the chip dip.

[Shawna Game]

No, you didn't.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And then the next morning.

[Shawna Game]

Yeah, there is no sneaking open the Ruffles. I heard it up here in Michigan, Joe.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

And the next morning. Then the next morning, I told the guys. I'm like, you'll never believe what happened last night. It was horror. Some jerk finished off the chip dip at one sitting.

[Shawna Game]

Fellas, we got broken into for all.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

That chipped up we bought. Yeah, there's some. Some loser.

[Shawna Game]

Yeah. And, you know, there's a whole strategy around this because there's crumbs, the little tiny chip things that you can. You can't do anything with. With chip dip. When you get towards the bottom of the bag, you have to look for the big chips that are still structurally sound.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Not many.

[Shawna Game]

You get all the crumbs in your left hand, and you're scraping the sides of the chip dip to. With the structurally sound one because it's got to be strong. And then you just kind of dip that in the crumbs, and you get the perfect ratio of chip to dip and you just eat the crumbs. You use your finger.

[OG]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Just if you're the one going in. I mean, now you've claimed it as your own, Right?

[Shawna Game]

Well, I guess if you've got that really good Covid toilet paper.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

Yeah.

[Shawna Game]

It's sanitary to do that. Yeah, go ahead.

[Joe Saul-Sehy]

I don't know. Archaeologists are going to find this and go, they were obsessed with something called chip dip. No idea what was going on there.