Beth Kobliner on the Money Basics That Still Work 30 Years Later (and the New Traps Nobody Warned You About) SB1841

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Stacking Benjamins Show

Episode: Beth Kobliner on the Money Basics That Still Work 30 Years Later (and the New Traps Nobody Warned You About) (SB1841)

Date: May 13, 2026
Hosts: Joe Saul-Sehy and Josh "OG" Bannerman, CFP
Guest: Beth Kobliner, NYT bestselling author, former member of the President's Financial Literacy Council

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode celebrates the 30th anniversary of Beth Kobliner’s personal finance classic, Get a Financial Life, and explores how the fundamentals of money management remain relevant—even as economic landscapes, technology, and spending habits evolve. The hosts and Beth discuss what’s changed in the world of personal finance, what timeless principles hold strong, and the new traps (from buy-now-pay-later apps to online gambling) facing younger generations.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Evolving Relationship with Money: From Cash to Clicks

• Less “touch” and more invisibility: Beth notes that today’s money is largely digital—a shift from the friction-filled cash days that could help people ‘feel’ their spending.
  • “We don’t touch it anymore... even little kids that I meet, they don’t know coins.” —Beth (12:24)
• Technology’s double-edged sword: Instant payments & “buy now, pay later” platforms (like Klarna, Affirm) make spending effortless, but also make it easy to overspend without realizing it.
  • “You almost have to create your own friction now, just to make sure you slow down.” —Joe (13:46)

2. The Power of Creating Financial “Friction” and Mindfulness

• Old-school tracking is as important as ever.
  • “Take a week, take two weeks, every time you spend your money, write it down... just to keep track of where it’s going.” —Beth (16:21)
• Modern alternatives: Apps like EveryDollar, PocketGuard, and, for couples, Honeydue can help automate this mindfulness.
• Money diary challenge: Even just two weeks can surface blind spots and spending leaks.

3. Relationships & Money: Navigating Saver-Spender Dynamics

• “Yours, mine, and our” system: Each partner has some autonomy, but shared goals and joint budgeting are crucial.
  • “At first what was charming…later…it can get very annoying. Talk about these things early.” —Beth (19:04)

4. Goals: The Foundation of All Good Money Habits

• Most people skip this step, but it’s critical: Put a price tag on goals (house, car, travel, etc.).
  • “If you don’t start with the price tag, life happens...and money gets vaporized.” —Beth (20:29)
• Mental bucketing: Assign buckets for major goals to bring focus and cut mindless spending.
  • “You make far fewer mistakes totally when you have goals.” —Joe (24:11)

5. Major Financial Milestones: What Still Works & What People Get Wrong

Buying a House

• Don’t rush—saving 10-20% for a down payment remains wise.
• Renting isn’t “throwing money away,” especially if your life is in flux.
  • “The biggest mistake is not paying attention to the big chunk of money needed... sometimes, it makes sense to rent.” —Beth (26:05)

Buying a Car

• Used cars remain the better value, especially with new cars averaging $50,000.
  • “Used car, used car, used car. That’s the best thing you can do.” —Beth (29:22)
• Negotiation tip: Never start with “What monthly payment do you want?” Instead, focus on the actual price and get pre-approved for financing.

Managing Debt & Credit

• Student loan landscape is more complex than ever; know your terms, check at studentaid.gov, and consider federal forgiveness programs if eligible.
• Credit card debt is never “good debt.” The “cost” is equivalent to losing 22%-plus annually.
  • “Paying off a high-rate credit card debt is the equivalent of earning 22% guaranteed on your money after taxes.”—Beth (37:19)
• “No sense. Why would I buy a slice of pizza and be paying it back for 10 years?” —Beth (40:11)

Good Debt vs. Bad Debt

• Student loans/mortgages: Can be “good” if they’re measured, logical, and fit your overall plan.
• Credit card/car debt: Avoid if at all possible—focus on paying these off as a priority.

6. New Financial Traps for Young People

Buy Now, Pay Later & Invisible Spending

• Seem harmless, but prey on payment psychology and often trap you with hidden fees or missed payments.

Online Gambling as “Investment”

• Disturbing trend: 70% of Gen Z (18–26) have gambled, and a growing chunk sees online betting as “investing.”
  • “A quarter, 25% of Gen Z and millennials consider online gambling ‘an investment.’” —Beth (43:28)
  • 96% lose money gambling, while stock index funds yield positive returns over 99% of 15-year periods.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Tracking Spending:
  “Take two weeks, track where your money’s going to, and you’ll have a better sense of where you can cut back.” —Beth (16:21)

• On Couples & Money:
  “Having a little autonomy is really important for couples. Having that separate account does make a difference.” —Beth (19:04)

• On Goal Setting:
  “Put a price tag on your goals because it’s a dose of reality… It’s also liberating because the idea of just having, ‘Oh one day I want a house’...can be stressful in its own way.”—Beth (21:02)

• On ‘Good’ vs. ‘Bad’ Debt:
  “There’s no good credit card debt...Paying off high-rate debt is the best thing you can do.“ —Beth (37:19)

• On Gambling:
  “Don’t gamble your money. The winners are DraftKings and all the big gambling websites.”—Beth (44:28)

• Parting Wisdom:
  “It’s not easy, but it’s straightforward. Take a breath, do the basic things: get out of debt, start saving automatically, put your money in your 401k...and you’ll be that 70-year-old person 30 years from now, saying thank you.” —Beth (45:27)

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Timestamps & Key Segments

• 00:57—Beth’s humorous intro: “Not letting that Ramsey boy come over…”
• 09:27—Beth’s re-introduction and the 30th anniversary of her book
• 12:24—How money has become invisible; the rise of frictionless spending
• 16:21—Money mindfulness: how/why to track your spending
• 19:04—How couples can organize joint (and separate) finances
• 20:29—Why putting price tags on goals matters
• 26:05—Home buying: common mistakes and new realities
• 28:03—Used vs. new car buying advice and negotiation tips
• 32:28—Credit, debt, and student loan management in 2026
• 37:19—“Good” debt vs. “bad”—focus on paying off credit cards
• 43:28—Online gambling’s dangers for young investors
• 45:27—Final advice: “Take a breath, keep doing the basics”

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Annuitites and Retirement Planning (58:06–75:39)

• Headline segment (58:06): Retirees are “thinking about annuities the wrong way,” leading to confusion and potentially bad outcomes.

• Many buy annuities for guaranteed income but never “annuitize”—the main benefit.

• Complexity, fees, lack of transparency, and irreversible choices make annuities problematic for most.

• Clear Use Cases: For some who want certainty or have longevity concerns, annuities can be a small piece of the plan—but only after considering all tradeoffs.

  • “Annuities by themselves—not good or bad, but they can be really, really bad. They are a tool. The weird screwdriver you only use every ten years.” —Joe (74:11)

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Actionable Takeaways

• Start with the basics: Track spending, set specific goals with dollar amounts, and regularly review your progress.
• Create “friction” in your spending: Use old-school tracking or new apps, but don’t let invisible money slip away.
• If in a relationship: Combine “yours, mine, and ours” accounts but have shared financial goals.
• Be skeptical of new financial trends: If it’s frictionless or pitched as “an easy win,” think twice—especially with BNPL and online gambling.
• Attack debt ruthlessly: Especially high-interest credit card debts.
• When investing: Focus on low-cost index funds, start early, and automate savings.
• On annuities: Only consider them as a small piece of the retirement puzzle, and only if you fully understand the terms and the irrevocable tradeoffs.

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Closing Thoughts & Gift Suggestion

• Get a Financial Life (2026 Edition) remains a recommended gift for graduates and anyone starting their financial journey—the numbers have changed, but the principles endure.

  • “If only somebody had put all this wisdom in one place… This is a phenomenal college gift.” —Joe (48:58)

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Useful Links

• Beth Kobliner: Official website
• Beth’s Book: Get a Financial Life
• Student Loan Simulator: studentaid.gov
• Show Notes & More: stackingbenjamins.com

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Summary

This episode is essential for anyone seeking not just to survive—but to thrive—in the modern financial world. Whether you’re navigating your first budget or considering retirement products like annuities, start with the timeless basics, stay vigilant about new traps, and always tie your spending to your values and goals. Beth’s humor and clarity, paired with the hosts’ real-world examples, make this both an anniversary celebration and a vital guide to money management in 2026 and beyond.

Transcript

[OG]

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[Joe Saul Sehi]

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[Joe Saul Sehi]

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[Beth Kobliner]

My gosh, you boys already know. I'm not not letting that Ramsey boy come over and play until you clean up your rooms.

[Doug]

Live from Joe's mom's basement, it's the Stacking Benjamin Show. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and today we've got a little something something for everyone. First, we'll help you build a better foundation with the woman whose New York Times bestseller propelled her all the way to helping the president's financial literacy council. It's the one and only Beth Kobleiner. In our headline segment, we'll go from just starting out to retirement because one headline says retirees are looking at annuities all wrong and it may be costing them. What do you need to know? We'll share answers and no need to worry because of course, I'm also waiting in the wings with today's trivia extravaganza at no extra charge. And now two guys who get a charge out of watching you level up your personal financial life. See you like to watch. It's Joe and. Oh, jj. JJ knew there was something wrong with you guys.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

There's nothing more thrilling watching somebody's net worth statement go from zero to millions. Hey everybody. Welcome to the show that hopefully is going to help you do that again today. I am Joe Saul Sehi and welcome back to Stacking Benjamin. Sit back, relax, grab a piece of paper and your favorite beverage because we got the man, the myth, the legend here. Mr. OG joins us again. How are you, man.

[OG]

Happy to be here. Thanks for having me again, Joe.

[Doug]

Never once has he sold that. Happy to be here.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

You just had quite an adventure with your son. It sounds like he had a very successful first year of college, so congratulations.

[OG]

Yeah, time flies, man. It's crazy to think a year ago we were planning high school graduations and now we're doing summer and internships and helping move out of the dorms. And a weekend ago, or a little bit over a weekend ago was his birthday. So I was able to. I had some other work to do down in Houston. So I went down to Houston in the morning, did that work in the afternoon, then zipped over to college station, took him to dinner, got to do a little bit of dad son time, which is fun on his birthday, came back, you know, I did the Joe travel plan of let's just drive everywhere, which I do not recommend. Like, it is not as exciting as people make it out to be. Left at 5 in the morning and came home at 11 at night. And all of it was driving. And that was a lot of windshield time. I even called Doug. He didn't even reply to my call. I texted him, like, hey, man, I'm on the road for four hours. I didn't even get a. I didn't even get the. The three dot bubble back.

[Doug]

No. Because I knew then that that was going to use up my four hours of a morning.

[OG]

It's like that. Oh, well.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Well, we got some great road trip material for our stackers today. How about that for.

[OG]

Yeah.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

A segue, huh? Today's show, brought to you by the letter A. A4. Amazing. So we describe Beth Cobliner. She's been a teacher to so many people. Listen to this. Back in 2010, she was asked to be on the President's Advisory Council on Financial Capability. She's also served on the President's Advisory Council on Financial Capability for Young Americans. She's written two huge bestsellers. She's written a bunch of books, but two huge bestsellers. And of course, we're going to talk about the, believe it or not, 30th anniversary of one of them. And what is it OG that makes good advice really timeless. And there's some timeless ideas in this book that, you know, 30 years ago it was relevant. Today it's relevant. Some things are different. We're going to ask Beth about all that today, too. Also the letter A for annuities, because

[OG]

those are my favorite.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Yeah, Annuities. People thinking about them the wrong way. And a great piece from CNBC that we're going to dive into today. And also brought to you by the letter A for limiting access to your financial data. You know, it's funny, I just spent the weekend this last weekend with a group of multi millionaires. And one of them, while we were talking, she listens to the show and she's like, so what's this thing, the vault, specifically, she wanted to verify that the vault can take your name off all those public lists automatically. You know, the ones where your name gets legally sold, your address, your phone, your email, etc. She goes, did I hear you right that you can do all that? We talked about how you have seven apps on your phone. Replace all them with a vault, Especially now that budgeting and net worth tracking are right around the corner. Stacking benjamin.com Vault gets you there. Stacking benjamin.com vault we have just a couple sponsor spots on the show. We're going to hear from two of them now so we can keep on keeping on. And then we'll have a couple more in the middle of Doug's trivia question so you can think about your answer. And Doug, I think you got a good one today. I think people are actually going to get this one, though. I think they're going to get a

[Doug]

good answer or a good question.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I think it's a good question. I think people are going to have a good answer. It's teamwork. Teamwork makes the dream work.

[Doug]

Lately I've been in the mood to just throw some softballs because you got to get people feel good about themselves, right? Going to get back to some unanswerable ones soon. But for right now, gna let you have some fun with it.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I think we should have done that differently. I think we should have said this one's really, really difficult and have people just feel great. Right? So let's do that.

[Doug]

Joe, I think they're going to figure it out.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

No, nobody listens that closely.

[Doug]

I think they're on to us.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

This is maybe one of the hardest questions, Doug, that we've ever done. It's going to be gna be.

[Doug]

Yeah, it's really hard.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

All right, we're going to hear from our sponsors. And then the amazing, the incredible Beth Kobleiner joins us as you hear this. I just got back from keynoting the millionaire money mentors conference in Florida. I'm sure I had a great time, even though I haven't gone yet as I record this. But I know wherever any stacking Benjamin's people are, it's always a party, isn't it? But what makes it even better party is the fact that when you see pictures of me, those clothes came from quints. I've been getting intentional lately about what I wear day to day and on stage and leaning in more into pieces that feel easy, that are comfortable, that I can travel with and still look put together. It just makes getting dressed simpler. Whether I'm at home or on the road, Quince has been my go to. The fabrics feel elevated. The fits are clean. Everything just works without needing to overthink it. Quince, as all the wardrobe staples for spring think, 100% European linen shorts and shirts from $34. Lightweight, breathable and comfortable, but still look put together and clean. 100% Pima cotton tees with a softness that has to be felt. Their pants also hit that same balance. Relaxed and comfortable, but still polished enough to wear pretty much anywhere. Everything's priced 50 to 80% less than what you'd find at similar brands. So Quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen. So you're getting premium materials without the markup. Between the pants that feel so incredibly comfortable. And my favorite is still that first cashmere sweater that I got. It is so nice. It's great to feel good because you know that your wardrobe looks good and it didn't cost anywhere near what I thought clothing that looks like that would cost. It should be the same for you. Refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use. Head to quince.comsb and because you're a stacker, you'll get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U I N C E.comSB for free shipping. 365 day returns. Quint.comSB. I'm super happy she's coming back to the card table. It's been far too long. Beth Kobleiner's back.

[OG]

How are you?

[Beth Kobliner]

I'm great. How are you?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I'm better now that you're back in mom's basement.

[Beth Kobliner]

Thank you, Joe. Yeah, I see you've really done a lot to fix up the place. It looks really nice.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Yeah. A little less sketchy than maybe the last time.

[Beth Kobliner]

A little less sketchy, a little cleaned up. Yeah, I noticed that.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Well, you know, mom won't let us stay down here if we don't keep the place clean.

[Beth Kobliner]

That makes sense. That really makes sense.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

You know, it's funny, Beth, normally I don't. I don't like during interviews to talk a lot about, quote the book. I like talking about themes and the things that these people do, like all of the cool stuff that you've done and all the people that you've helped and all the great stuff. But in this case, I do want to talk about the book. Back when I was a financial planner, and it's been a long time since I was a financial planner, I remember telling my clients with kids that were in their 20s that they had to read your book. And I'm like, how could this book be 30 years old?

[Beth Kobliner]

I don't know. When you're 35, exactly how is that possible? Well, when I walk around sometimes I'll meet people and they'll say, oh my God, I have your book on my shelf. And they're like 70 years old. I'm like, am I 112 years old? How old am I? So it's been gratifying and doing the 30th anniversary, I mean, honestly, the publisher, Simon and Schuster, they're great, but they're like, maybe don't tell everyone it's 30 years old. They're like, that's a long time. But I feel very proud of that. You know, a lot of the advice has changed because times have changed, but a lot of it is also fundamentally the same. And I think that's so important for people to know that there aren't these crazy newfangled things you really need to know a lot about. You know, you need to just stick to some really basic, straightforward advice and with some wrinkles here and there and. Cause we could talk about wrinkles? No, but it's really, really gratifying to be able to talk to an audience for this many years and see how their changes from Gen X to Gen Z. It's just a totally different environment. And you know, the good news is this generation actually is doing quite well. Even though they've had a really, really hard time. They're saving, they're more serious about money, they are paying attention in a lot of smart ways. So I'm very optimistic about, you know, almost like the Depression generation. They're having a hard time and they realize they have to pay attention. Whereas, you know, back in the day, 30 years ago, people in their 20s were like, woo, it's fun, who cares? And it's a different time. But I am impressed by this generation and how they really are doing some smart things.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Yeah, we've done some headlines recently and man, Gen Z, to your point, is doing some really great stuff. But the world, as you pointed out though, has changed in a lot of ways. What's the biggest way our relationship with money you think has changed over the

[Beth Kobliner]

last 30 years, Beth, we don't touch it anymore. I mean, even little kids that I meet, they're 20, 30 something parents don't teach them about coins. You know, kids don't understand money. Little children and all of us, you know, we all use our debit card, we tap to pay. It basically feels magical. Or obviously, now we use our phone to buy things. And I think that has really changed our relationship to money. You know, years ago, you go out and say, okay, I have $50 in my wallet. And by the end of the day you're like, oh my God, where did my money go? How did I spend $50 today? Today you don't even know what you spent because you're using a card or using your phone. I think that's the most difficult part about handling your money since it's now invisible and it's seamless and effortless, which is really nice in some ways. But that also makes it seamlessly and effortlessly come out of your savings account without really realizing it.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I think it's a great point because back in the 90s, you had a lot of friction between you and your money. And largely, you know, the banking industry, credit card industry, stores, right, with Klarna and Affirm and all these things, like, they've gotten rid of the friction. So I feel like maybe, maybe. Well, and this is kind of a theme in your book as you're talking tactics, that you really almost have to create your own friction now, Beth, just to make sure you slow down a little bit.

[Beth Kobliner]

That's exactly right. In fact, I just wrote an op ed on this how the friction is the exact word. The idea that, you know, before you'd have to take out your cash and count out your dollars, and now you go to the counter and like you said, like Klarna will say, you know what? You don't have to pay us today. Not only that, we're not even going to charge you interest if you pay us on time. So it sounds smart, like, oh, that's a great idea. I'm going to sign up for that. I'd be a dummy not to. But what they don't tell you is they know that half of people will miss some payments and then have to pay extra fees and extra expenses. And it's the psychology of it all. If you buy a jacket for $100 and then you don't have to pay for it right away, you still in your mind think, well, I didn't pay for it, so I still have the $100 or maybe I only paid $20, so I still have $80 that I'm working with. It changes our whole relationship to what we actually have. I mean, it's very difficult. And I think again, young people are super smart and super sensitive savvy in terms of their. On the positive side of this, they're signing up for 401ks and record numbers. You know, I used to have to beg people to sign up for a 401k in their 20s. Now young people know that's the right thing to do. They know about matching. They have to do it up to their match. So that can be a very positive thing. But the flip side of it is that it can be very deceptive and tricky. You can put a ton of money into cryptocurrency that you hear about since, you know, a vast majority of young people get their personal finance information from social media. So you might hear someone who's talking about this thing that sounds really good and you think you're being smart. I'm going to invest in cryptocurrency and then not really thinking about the fact it's extremely volatile. And if you want to buy a house in five years, that's not the place to put it. So I think it gets very complicated for, for young people to sort all this out.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

It's interesting. We spend all day with, with ourselves, right? We know what we eat, right? Like I could tell you what I have for lunch I don't want to have for dinner last night.

[Beth Kobliner]

Tell me, Joe, what'd your mother make for lunch for you?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Campbell's soup today, very frugal.

[Beth Kobliner]

Oh, she's always been a good cook.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Very frugal. Yes. That today Campbell's was the cook though. All we had to do is turn it on. It was awesome.

[Beth Kobliner]

Exactly.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Mom being a little, you know, a little less so today she's got other things going on, but. Big poker game tonight for mom. But we know what we eat, we know what we wear, but somehow we have no idea how much money we spend.

[Beth Kobliner]

Right?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

How do we solve this money blind spot without making it a full time job?

[Beth Kobliner]

Right? And this is one that I would say going old school makes sense. First of all, research shows us when you write something down, you learn it better. So I would say take a week, take two weeks. Every time you spend your money, write it down. You can put it in your notes app in your phone, whatever, just to keep track of where it's going. You could also just, you know, look at your credit card statement. And your debit card statement. But at the end of the day, most people won't do that. If you give yourself an activity for two weeks, I'm going to write it all down. You might be amazed to see, wow, is it really like a hundred dollars a week on coffee or, you know, it's the old time, you know, people say, oh, but I want my coffee. All right. So if you do it once a week, you know, it's funny, I've been talking to young people in high schools now, and when I told them, you know, if you skip a coffee, you put it into a retirement account, you'd have, you know, a hundred thousand dollars, they're amazed. Like that example used to be, people would roll their eyes. But now young people, again, I think they're smart and they realize, you know what, I really didn't think about it that way. So I think coming up with a spending diary, do it for two weeks and see where your money's going. I think it's just that money mindfulness of. I didn't realize. Yeah, you know, I'm paying for parking. Maybe I should park a block away and get the extra steps in. And you know, now I'm talking about steps, but you know, to pay attention so that you know where your money's going. There are also some really good apps. There's EveryDollar and Pocket Guard. They're third party apps that could help you sort of track where they'll sort of divide it up by the different categories so you'll see where your money's going to. Or for couples, this is always a big one. Honeydew is another one. It's especially good for couples because it again, helps you figure out who's spending what where, and that will never go away. Couples fighting about money, new people, people who are getting married, learning about their spouses, all the debt they have that they didn't really realize. Those are all constant discussions. But when it comes to spending your money, I'd say take two weeks, track where your money's going to, and you'll have a better sense of where you can cut back.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

That's awesome because it truly isn't about the app. It's about you and your behavior. You know, you mentioned a married couple. You've got a great story early on in your book about Gretchen and Max. Gretchen is like a lot of our stackers, very frugal, loves listening to personal finance stuff. Not all of our stackers. I'm a spender at heart. I'm much more like Max, who The second that he gets money, Beth, it's gone. So I had to create systems to make sure that I kept my money. But you've got a spender and a saver married to each other. How does that work? Like, how do we bridge the gap with a spouse that might not be as frugal as we are?

[Beth Kobliner]

Well, you might want to have first off a yours, mine and our account. You each have a set amount of money. Whether it's. You each say, okay, every month we'll put $100 into our own account, and that's money. I don't have to talk to you about where I'm spending, but the combined money is something that you really do have to come to agreement on how much, you know, we'll pay our bills out of the set account because the resentments could grow, you know, really get deeper and deeper. At first. What was charming like, oh, my. My spouse is so spontaneous and buys things, fun things. Later and later it can get very annoying. And you have to talk about these things early. It really is. And have set goals, savings goals together. But having a little autonomy is really important for couples. And having that separate account does make a difference.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

You know, you talk about goals, and I had forgotten this from the first time that I read your book, that that truly is where you begin, is you begin with, hey, we can have a budget. You know, we talk karna, we talk credit cards, we talk all this stuff. The first thing to do is put a price tag on your goals. Because most people say, like, I want a house, I want freedom, but that's not really a number. Talk about the stakes of that, though, Beth. You know, like a good movie has stakes. I think our financial life has stakes. What happens if you don't start with the price tag on your goals?

[Beth Kobliner]

Life. Life happens. And suddenly you're spending money on this and we went on this vacation and not that there's anything wrong with any of those things, but when life gets in the way and life costs money, I think it's very important to put a price tag on your goals because it's a dose of reality. It's saying, you know, how much I need, I want to buy. I'd love to buy a home. Say the median first time home, buyer, typical home for a first time buyer now is $270. So say if you.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

$270,000.

[Beth Kobliner]

Sorry, $270,000.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I was like, beth, I want that first number. Give me the first number.

[Beth Kobliner]

I was back in the 1800s for a second. Sorry, $270,000. So that means if you put 10% down, it's 27,000. If you want to put 20% down, which is roughly what most lenders want, you're talking a little over $50,000. How long is it going to take me to get to that goal and how much do I have to save? So in my book, I do have a chart. It's like simple chart of, wow. If I want to buy a house in five years, I'd have to save about $900 a month in order to get that amount to get the down payment. And I think that's important because it makes it. You might say, oh, my God, that's crazy. I'll never have $900. Well, what if you put in half that $450? It might take you 10 years. Or you might move and live somewhere else. Where a home is maybe less expensive, or you might move somewhere more expensive. But at least you're working toward a goal. It doesn't have to be perfect. You don't have to not enjoy your life and say, oh, my gosh, if I don't put that set amount in for my house down payment, I'm not going to have lunch that week. You know, whatever it is, you have to set the goal and know it's there and work toward it. That is not only smart, it's also liberating in a way, because the idea of having, oh, one day, I want a house, and it's sort of simmering in the back of your mind, but you're not doing anything to get that house can be sort of stressful in its own way.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Yeah. And I also think, you know, you talked about coffee earlier. The coffee discussion, truly, when you start with your goal, isn't about the coffee. It's about, do I want the coffee worse than I want the house.

[Beth Kobliner]

Right.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Because if it truly. What's the Marie Kondo phrase like? Sparks joy.

[Beth Kobliner]

Yes, sparks joy.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

If it truly sparks joy, well, then have the coffee. But if you're like, you know what? The coffee is keeping me from this house and the 900 bucks, because it's amazing. It is amazing to me that whenever I take that advice that you just gave and I put a number on my goal, how my subconscious brain just starts working on it, Beth, you know what I mean? I'm like, oh, I could have more money here. I could take money from here. I've got this part of my budget that, you know, I don't need this subscription. Like, my subconscious starts really attacking it.

[Beth Kobliner]

It's so much More empowering. And also if you can't make that $50,000 goal, well, it will also give you options such as, well, maybe I'll get a Fannie or Freddie Mac loan, or maybe I'll get an FHA loan and I could put down 10% or even 5%, which may or may not be a good thing, depending upon your situation. But there are a lot of options. State and local housing agencies have all kinds of great deals for first time home buyers. If you have a goal in mind, you have a number in mind, then you can get a little bit more creative because at least you have something that's called your down payment account. Then it becomes more real. I mean, I think the manifesting of the world, but it kind of is, it works. If you have a down payment account, that's going to be the thing that you could turn to when you finally do feel like, you know what, I'm ready to buy a home, or at least I want to buy one in two years or three years. I think that's very important.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I specifically Stackers wanted Beth to talk about this because back when I was a financial planner and I know talking to Og, my co host, he hears this all the time, like, who cares about the goal set? Let's just have more money. If we have, who needs goals? We need. But you know what, you make far fewer mistakes totally when you have goals. You stop wasting money when you have goals. Like really things become to it not

[Beth Kobliner]

disappearing, you know, it doesn't sort of vaporize and you know where money's going. Also the things like nowadays one in five young people can work remotely. You could be home just like you in your basement, you know, maybe even in your own apartment one day. Joe, just, you know, we all have dreams, Beth, right? Then you could say, well, maybe I'll, you know, I'm living in New York City. Maybe I'll move to Memphis or I'll move to St. Louis or I'll move somewhere else where it's less expensive to live. And I still have the same job because they allow me to do it remotely. And in that case you are saying I have money. I, I'm, I feel like it'll be a long time before I could afford an apartment in New York City. But if I move somewhere else, then I can afford one. And that's a place that I wanted to live or thought about living. I think again, by setting goals and working toward them, it creates all other opportunities to solve the problem. But if you're just saving money and not Paying attention to your goals, you're never going to. You know, when's that moment where you finally say I want to buy a house? You're sort of at wit's end because you might see the money isn't there.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Yeah, like this is mental bucketing. Yes, that we can do. You list four goals that I. Heck, most of our stackers in their 20s and 30s are worried about, even in their 40s, 50s worried about. I want to do these, attack these because these are very early on. Let's start off with buying a house. You just mentioned it. What do most people get wrong when they go try to buy a house right now?

[Beth Kobliner]

I think, you know, we had the, the mortgage crisis, which is about 20 years ago. It's hard to believe, but the idea of people putting down 3% down, zero money down, that can be very, very, very risky. Now there are programs that allow you to do that and there are ways to do that, but it's much. You're basically, you're borrowing less money if you put a bigger down payment. So shooting for that 20% down payment is really hard, or at least a 10% down payment. I think that's sort of one of the biggest mistakes. I hate to say this one, Joe, and this is where you've really excelled. I mean, I think you're like probably the best in the whole world on this. Living at home in your parents home. You know, post college, we're coming up on graduation season. It's a very difficult time for college graduates to find jobs right now. It's a hard time for anyone to find young people to find a job. So living at home for a year or two is a great way to save up some money, even just to rent an apartment. But the biggest mistake is not paying attention to the fact that you're going to need a big chunk of money to get into a home and there isn't as much of a rush. And that people feel like, ah, if I'm renting, I'm throwing money away. And sometimes it makes sense to rent because there are a lot of costs you're not incurring if you're renting. Especially if you buy a place few years out, say you're in your mid-20s and you could only afford a studio, small apartment. And then, you know, suddenly a year later you get married, you have kids and you have to move again. All the costs, the closing costs of buying a new place, the moving costs, all those expenses, expenses can really add up. So I would say don't rush into buying Right away. Renting for a couple of years. If you think you're going to stay in the home at least six, seven, eight years, then buying makes sense.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

What about owning a car? A lot of people buying cars new

[Beth Kobliner]

versus used is the smartest thing you can do. You know, you can really, really waste money by buying a new car. I hate to say it, but it's true. I mean, it's. Look, if you have the money and you like the idea of a new car, it's okay, it's fine. But the average price of a new car now is $50,000.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

That's incredible.

[Beth Kobliner]

And it's really gone up a lot. Car prices have gone up, interest rates are up on auto loans, insurance costs have climbed. It's really expensive. But a used car, the average price now is about $30,000, which isn't cheap, but at least it's, you know, you're. And as we know, when you buy a new car, the minute you drive it off the lot, it deprecates, appreciates. It loses so much in value. Get a used car, pay 20% down payment on it. That will be a much, much smarter move for you. And there's all these great resources now. There's sites like Carvana and Autotrader and Cargurus. They can just deliver the car to your door and you can return it if you don't like it, no questions asked. Or if you buy a car in person, there are ways to check the carfax report, which will tell you the service, what the service history of the car is, inspection history, as well as estimated miles that have been driven. And that's cost you $40. But you can buy a used car knowing what its background is.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

And that 40 bucks is like just a small insurance policy.

[Beth Kobliner]

Exactly. So buying a used car, if you're buying from a person directly, negotiate, because they will expect you to negotiate. I think sometimes people feel a little cagey about that. Yeah, they're expecting you to that. They price that into the price. Pay an independent mechanic about 100 bucks, 150 bucks to look at the car to make sure it looks okay. So I'd say used car, used car, used car. That's the best thing you could do.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

You know, and I know that negotiation, Beth, is not your specialty, but how do you negotiate a car?

[Beth Kobliner]

Well, when you go into the dealer, first and foremost, they often say, well, what monthly payment do you want to spend? That's always the first line. And it's a bit of a trick because they can kind of figure out how to make the monthly payment what you want it to be. They can, you know, give you a, instead of a five year loan, they could give you a seven year loan. And so you don't even realize, oh my gosh, this is what a great payment. But you don't realize you're going to be paying it back and much more interest over so many years. You know, the shorter the term, the less expensive, the less interest you'll pay over the years. Instead of doing that, it's good to go in before you go into a dealer. First off, get pre approved for a loan. Go to a credit union, they tend to have lower rates for auto loans or a bank or shop around online. Get pre approved when you go in and they say, what's your monthly payment? Say, you know what, I don't need financing. Mel said, I want this car and I want to pay 10% below the invoice price. And you could find the invoice [e-mail] or, or Kelly Blue Book for very little. You can find those out. And if you pay 5 to 10% below that price, that's the negotiation, that's the real way to do it. It can get so confusing and things are being added on and they're talking monthly. That's why you want to be in control of the situation and know what you're negotiating for because you could be the best negotiator in the world. Oh great, I'm only I lowered my monthly payment. But what you don't realize is, oh, I'm paying $10,000 more in interest over 67 or eight years.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Well, and I gotta say, that's what I love about everything that you said and everything that you wrote in the book. Because it isn't about this emotional game. It's just about knowing the facts before you walk in, knowing what the numbers are.

[Beth Kobliner]

I think people, the best negotiators I know are honest, straightforward and clear. And they've done their homework. And then, and also having a good credit score is very important when you're getting that car loan because the better your credit score score, the better interest rate you'll get on the loan. And when you go into a dealer, instead of being like, hey, you know, give me a good deal, you just sort of know the facts and very clearly state what you're interested in. And if the dealer is giving you a hard time in being a little weasely, walk out. You don't need to buy it from them.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

It's incredible. When I remember first reading this in your book, and thinking, had I known that earlier, some of my early car decisions would have been much, much, much better. Because there's plenty of car dealers like, you don't have to.

[Beth Kobliner]

Exactly, exactly. It's. It's nerve wracking. And you feel like they're the expert and they know what they're. No, you could be in control of that situation.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

When you mentioned credit scores, that brings up the issue of debt. Student loans still a huge weight for a lot of people. I paid off my student loans because as a lot of stackers know, I was really, I was not great with money. So it was Beth for me in my early 40s. And now that's early, right?

[Beth Kobliner]

Wow.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

And back then I was a dinosaur when I paid it off. Now if you got student loans in your 40s, hey, that's, that's nothing, man. How do we think about our student loans now?

[Beth Kobliner]

Well, I too, I. When I graduated from college, I had $20,000 in student loan, which was huge. This was back in the 1850s. No, it was in 19, late 1980s.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

And again, she graduated when she was 7.

[Beth Kobliner]

So it was. Well, I was. Yeah, I was very gifted. I was actually six, which is. I don't like to brag, but I had this amount of debt and I lived at home for two years and my dad by the second year said, we're getting sick of you. No, he didn't say that. He said, if you want. And he was like a principal. He didn't have a lot of money, but he said, a teacher, I can take that loan from you. You're paying like 8% interest. I will pay it off for you. You pay me back and pay me 4% interest, which was still better than he was getting in a savings account. So it was kind of a win win deal. And we obviously trusted each other. It was a good deal for both of us. So that was, that was the olden days. Now people have much more debt. Although interestingly, the median debt load is $20,000. Back then it was probably more like $10,000. So the median debt load is $20,000. We always read stories about people with hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt because often they were talked into a bad school decision that really didn't jibe with what their career was going to be. But if you have a student loan, it's been so tricky in the last few years because of all the rule changes. It's probably the most confusing time right now in history when it comes to student loans. And there's a very good chance that if you have student loan now, you're going to have to change your plan by July. The good news is they're simplifying the student loan programs.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

The bad News is July, July 2026,

[Beth Kobliner]

July 2026 are some that mean if you got your loans before July 2026, there are certain rules. But by July 2028 is when you have to make that decision. Although there's the save program that they just got rid of. You know, there's a lot of. But the bottom line is you need to go on the government website because a lot of people have been had not been paying their loans for a while. Go on the government website and figure out first of all if you're on the existing the old standard plan and you can afford it, keep it up, you pay it off over 10 years, you make the same monthly payment and you'll save money on interest and you'll pay off your loans faster. But on studentaid.gov you can find the loan simulator and, and you could try the different loans that will be available. Basically they're going to just be now two plans that are available, the standard and another plan that hasn't even really been set up yet. But the point is you want to make sure you know what you owe. Go to studentaid.gov try the different options that you'll have. Also this public service loan forgiveness program which kind of got people who did it and tried to do it years ago. It was really a mess. Now it's a little bit better. So if you're a public school teacher or a nurse, or you work for the government or you're a nonprofit worker, your debt might be forgiven if you make 10 years of on time payments. Finally they have that. So it's working. I've talked to a lot of people, a lot of teachers lately who told me that they've been able to see their debt forgiven.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

That could be exciting.

[Beth Kobliner]

Yeah, it could be really amazing. It could be really amazing. And it's, it's only fair, you know, government workers, teachers working for nonprofits. These are people who are doing really, really hard work. I hope once the plan it's finally done, people kind of stick with the plan that they're in and they know what they're doing. Like one little tip is if you are in not for profit sector and you're going for the public service loan forgiveness program which forgives your loans after 10 years, you, you might want to opt for one of the plans that allows you to like they look at your income and determine your Payments based on your income, if you have a lower income because then you'll be making lower payments over that 10 year period. So by the time your loans are forgiven, you would have paid less into it.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Oh yeah. In other words, a bigger number forgiven.

[Beth Kobliner]

Exactly.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Can we talk just for a second about debt in general? Let's poke the bear here. Do you like the phrase good debt

[Beth Kobliner]

if explained well, I mean getting money to invest in yourself and go to a college within reason, you know, and that that's sort of a key for people figuring out how much you need to borrow and how much you're going to pay off and what job you think you're going to have. Years ago you didn't have to think about it, now you do. It's just too expensive not to. So I do think though that is good debt in the sense if you're mindful and paying attention to, you're investing in yourself. But there's no good credit card debt. You know, is mortgage debt good? Yes, if you are again in a reasonable situation, you're working toward buying a home. The thing that's always made this make the most sense to me is if you have debt, say you have a credit card that's charging you a rate of 22%, which is the national average now, close to the high, like the all time high ever. It's crazy. If you have, you owe money on a credit card at 22%. If you say had some savings, say you had $1,000 in savings and it was earning 1%, 1%, thousand dollars, the end of the year you'd make $10. But if you have that thousand dollars, you take that thousand dollars and you use it to pay off your high rate credit card debt. You're not losing $250. In other words, that 22% is so expensive that every year you're losing ground. Even if you have savings sitting there, you're losing ground on that very high rate debt. Paying off a high rate credit card that charges you 22% is the equivalent of earning 22% guaranteed on your money after taxes. And you say where can I earn 22%? Certainly not in my bank account. Maybe if I have a 401k that matches. Well, they say for every dollar I put it up to a certain amount, they'll put in a dollar that's 100% return on your money. So that's the best thing you could do. But right after that it's paying off high rate debt. And that is so critical and I think it's very difficult for someone who gets into debt because it becomes a spiral. I think this generation initially was really averse to debt. They were like, no, I'm going to use my debit card. I don't want to spend beyond my means. But I think Covid hit and it got very expensive. And now this debt. This generation has $500 more in their credit card on average, than our generation did 30 years ago. So it's a tough time for young people if you pay attention to some of these rules. Don't buy something that you can't afford to pay with immediately. You know, something you can't afford to pay off immediately. Try as hard as possible not to buy it.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Have you seen that, The Saturday Night Live skit?

[Beth Kobliner]

Which one?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

The one where Steve Martin has a new book out called don't buy stuff you can't pay for.

[Beth Kobliner]

Yeah, I know.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I felt like you were given the same advice there, Beth.

[Beth Kobliner]

I know, but he's a lot funnier. But I think that that concept again, it's like you're saying, why put a price tag on goals? Why think about these things? I think once you sort of think logically about it, you're like, yeah, that makes sense. No sense. Why would I buy something, you know, buy a slice of pizza and be paying it back for 10 years, you know, or buy a pair of sneakers that are. Were silly and I probably, you know, I want them and it's hard. There are a lot of conflicting things. It's not like you could never splurge in life, but I think once you get this down when you're in your 20s, and if you start paying attention to it, it really lasts a lifetime. And on the one hand, it's true. When you're in your 20s, you're probably earning much less than you will in your 30s or 40s. Like, look at you. You put new pill into your basement. You know, your place looks great, Joe. So things will get better. You'll have more money, but you also have more expenses. You get married, you have kids. Before long, your parents get older. I've had so many young people ask me how they can help their parents. They don't have a ton of money themselves, but they worry. You know what I see my parents, they spent it all on my college, and now they don't have money. So getting a handle on it. So sooner, because if it's like you're in your 20s and you force yourself. And so many people have said to me, I read your book. I was like, what is she Talking about, I don't have extra money. I can't put it in my 401k, but I forced myself to do it, and now literally, I have $400,000. And I'm like, could you give me half? No, I don't say that. I say that's amazing because at the

[Joe Saul Sehi]

time, it is amazing.

[Beth Kobliner]

You. Small amounts. You put small amounts, small amounts. And it does grow exponentially when it's in these, you know, tax favored accounts and you put it in an index fund and all the basics that really make a difference, which is great. I'm happy to have been doing this for so long and see the success stories and feel very confident that, look, nobody knows what the market's going to bring, but we do know what are some smart things to do with your financial life. And I've seen it make a difference in, you know, probably millions of people's lives.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Boy, something that is really changing people's lives. On the topic of debt and things that would create debt, a house, a car. Those are things that you need, that we aspire to have. But I can't watch a sporting event now, Beth, without seeing sponsored by DraftKings. Now I can bet on the weather. I could bet on what color of sweater you were going to wear down to the basement. Right? I mean, I could bet on everything. This feels like, you know, danger lights all over it.

[Beth Kobliner]

100%, I find it. And it's particularly young people who are doing this. 70%. It's 69% of people 18 to 26 have participated in gambling. So 70%. And that's compared to only 57% of baby boomers. So young people who have much less money. We were talking before, they have less money, are putting money into gambling. And what's even more disturbing is a quarter. 25% of Gen Z and millennials consider online gambling an investment.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Oh, no.

[Beth Kobliner]

They have literally said they think it's an investment.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I saw a TikTok video, Beth, about this. A guy for one of the, you know, he was talking about Kalshi, and I just had this feeling that he's being paid money by them. He's like, I put $100 in every day and making it sound like it's dollar cost averaging.

[Beth Kobliner]

100%. It's so crazy the way they have appropriated the words of investment community, and now they're using them to make people feel like, oh, yeah, I'll put $100 away in my gambling account. And what they're not paying attention to IS studies show 96% of the time. If you gamble, you lose 96% of the time. Meanwhile, if you. There was a study that came out that shows if you put money into a stock index fund, if you look at every 15 year period, so starting like from 1929 to 15 years from there and then 1930, 15 years from there, every 15 year period, you made money over 99% of the time.

[OG]

Wow.

[Beth Kobliner]

Don't gamble your money. The winners are DraftKings and all the big gambling places and the prediction websites. And what's really concerning is some kids, 18 years old are able to participate in this. And like I said, I've been in high schools and kids are telling me, yeah, you know, I lost a bunch of money, you know, on one of these prediction sites or lost a bunch of money in gambling. And it's really something that is a waste of money. It's hard because it's fun and it's social and all that, but it should be not something that you think about as an investment in your future.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

It had to be fun opening up these pages again and seeing how much of it was the same, but also how many things have changed with this new updated version of Get a Financial Life. What do you hope people do differently after they read the newest version?

[Beth Kobliner]

Beth I hope they take a breath. I think we all need to take a breath in this country. Understand that it's not easy, but it's not rocket science. Young people have a very hard time. The unemployment rate is much more difficult for them. They're seeing, I was looking at some Fed study that showed that historically college graduates have better job prospects than the public. On average, the unemployment rate is better, is lower for college graduates. And the last few years, it's actually the general public jobs, they've had a better employment rate than college graduates. So it's a very tricky time. And if you did everything right, you went to school, you worked hard, you graduated from college, you. It's very frustrating to feel like, wow, things are stacked against me. This is a very difficult time. That being said, this generation is doing a lot, that they're doing well, they're saving more, they're putting money into 401ks, they have health insurance. In our day, about 25% of people did not have health insurance. Now it's much lower, it's like 15%. So they have twice as much health insurance. And health insurance is so, I mean, twice as many people have health insurance. In our generation, it was very common to go without health insurance. That was a disaster for a lot of people. Now young people have health insurance, maybe they're covered by their parents plan. Going to college still gives you a premium, graduating from college still gives you a premium. In the job market. It's not as much as it used to be, but you still get an example. And so young people are doing a lot of really good things, things I think the breath that I want them to take is to say, you know what, it's not going to be easy but the information is there and it's pretty straightforward. That's the difference. It's not easy, but it's straightforward and I'm not going to get all bent out of shape. And you know, one study showed that they think the reason young people are gambling more is because housing market seems so far away from them. The typical first time home buyer now is 40 years old. That's been something that they hear and they're like, well I'm never gonna buy a house. I might as well just, you know, take a flyer on some sports team and hope for the best. And that's a mistake. And I would say very strongly that although there's a lot of fear out there, there's also a good horizon. And generation to generation to generation, there's always a bad time. I remember when I graduated in the 80s and like, oh, it's the worst job market ever. You always hear the bad. This is a particularly tough time. But there are things this generation could do and I think they're really smart. And I've seen it again and again. Take a breath and do some basic things, you know, get out of debt, start to save automatically, put your money in your 401k plan and you will be like that 70 year old person 30 years from now. I'll meet you on the street and you'll have to talk really loudly because I won't be able to hear and say thank you and I'll say for what? And I won't know who I am now, but I think I'll be 90, which, who knows, maybe I'll be like a cool 90 year old.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Absolutely.

[Beth Kobliner]

Yeah, we both will be. I'll come see you in your basement. I'll find something to compliment on your basement.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

We'll have to figure out Beth, how to get down the stairs.

[Beth Kobliner]

True, that is an excellent point.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

If only, if only somebody had put all this wisdom in one place. Like if there was a book that I could open or I could gift to somebody. This, this is by the way is a phenomenal college gift. We are at that time. I remember giving this to my clients, for their kids, when their kids graduated, because it's incredible. And of course, the new version, all the numbers up to date, all of the. You know, when you first wrote this, ETFs exchange traded funds, not as prevalent as they are today.

[Beth Kobliner]

Oh, gosh.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Online gambling.

[Beth Kobliner]

Yeah, online gambling. They're so funny. I looked at. I'm like, if you want to buy a stereo, here's what you have to do. I'm like, stereo? Then it was like, if you want to buy an ipod. I'm like, ipod. You know, things have changed so much. But it is comforting to know that some of the basics are very much the same. And it's not like the world. It's not like, oh, they don't work anymore. They do work. So just pay attention to that.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

It's called Get a financial life. Personal finance in your 20s or 30s.

[Beth Kobliner]

Yeah. And I like the neon green cover.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I do too.

[Beth Kobliner]

A little. Cool.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I saw some of your events. You had like a big step and repeat that had that all over it. Like it was just. It was really cool. The way I think it glows in the dark.

[Beth Kobliner]

You know what? I just got this copy yesterday and I have to go in the bathroom and close the door and see if it glows. I didn't even think of that. What a smart idea, Beth.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

It's available everywhere, right?

[Beth Kobliner]

Everywhere. It's available on every place. Even in bookstores. It's available all over.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Thank you for mentoring our Stackers today. It's been far too long. Thank you so, so, so much.

[Beth Kobliner]

Great. Thank you, Joe. Great to see you.

[Doug]

Hey there, Stackers. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug. And can you believe it's been 30 years since. Since Beth first released Get a Financial Life? It's incredible. Also incredible is what else was going on back in 1996. How about one new band that stacked tons of Benjamins back then, or you know, in their case in Britain, they call thousand British pounds a ton, then they spell it weird. Got like extra N's and E's in there. So we can safely say that this band accumulated tonnes of money. So what was the Name of the four singer supergroup who debuted in 1996? Who could tell you what you want, what you really, really want? I'll be back right after I see if I can help Joe's mom spice up tonight's dinner. It's meatloaf night.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Meatloaf. I had a breakfast mentoring meeting yesterday with a young woman who was just amazing. She is graduating from college with a degree in wealth management and she reached out hoping for some pointers. And listen, if somebody's in Texarkana and wants to go into this beautiful field of personal finance and helping people get their money together, that is incredible. But even more incredible is how she reached out, how she was trying to network and I was having a discussion that finding the right person and avoiding the wrong person for a role, that's what can make or break an organization. And we just don't see that many qualified people. So how do you find them? Well, Indeed Sponsored Jobs is a boost whenever you need to find quality talent. If you're hiring, Indeed is all you need. You can stop struggling to get your job post even seen on other sites. You'll match with quality candidates with Indeed. Sponsored Jobs. Get matched with and higher quality candidates who can drive the results you need. Reach candidates who meet your specific criteria like skills, certifications or location. Drives me crazy when I'm matched with all kinds of people who aren't a fit. I don't have that kind of time. People are finding quality hires on Indeed right now in the minute I've been talking to you. Companies like yours made 27 hires on Indeed. According to Indeed data worldwide, sponsored jobs posted directly on indeed are 95% more likely to report a higher than non sponsored jobs. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all the boxes. Less stress, less time, more results when you need the right person to cut through the chaos. This is a job for Indeed. Sponsored Job and here's what's cool. Stackers. You're going to get $75 in sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves@ Indeed.com podcast. Just go to Indeed.com podcast right now and support Stacking Benjamins by saying you heard about Indeed right here at stacking Benjamins. Indeed.com podcast terms and conditions apply. Hiring do it the right way with Indeed.

[Doug]

Hey there stackers. I'm meatloaf lover. Especially when there's that like that sauce on the side. So good. And guy who's always hungry for more money knowledge. But mostly meatloaf. Joe's mom's neighbor Doug well, back in 1996, there were lots of exciting things happening. First, of course, Beth Kobleiner first wowed readers with Get a Financial Life. But also, it was the hundredth year of the modern Olympic Games, which happened in Atlanta, Georgia. Not the hundred years ago part, but the 1996 part. Dolly the sheep became the first cloned mammal, and IBM's Big Blue defeated Grandmaster Gary Kasparov in chess. But today's trivia was about none of that. We asked you about a British supergroup that could tell you what you want, which really, really, really, really, really wants. Who were they? Of course, 1996 was the year hitmakers the Spice Girls released their first album and rocked the world pop charts. And now let's hear from two people helping you rock your personal financial foundation,

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Joe and OG so, OG when it comes to meatloaf, are you the.

[OG]

I'm never the. Nope. No, I'm not. Nope. I'm not.

[Doug]

What?

[OG]

Absolutely hate meatloaf.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Are you kidding me?

[Doug]

It's hamburger, dude. How do you hate meatloaf?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Are you a communist?

[OG]

No.

[Doug]

Wow.

[OG]

It's hamburger with, like, garbage put inside of it. Soup it up because seasoned breadcrumbs and sometimes breadcrumbs. And potatoes. And potatoes. I don't know.

[Doug]

This is like the fin turn when he was a little kid who loved pizza but wouldn't eat pasta. We're like, it's cold.

[OG]

Those are way different things.

[Doug]

And cheese.

[Beth Kobliner]

It's all the same.

[OG]

Pizza sauce is not the same as spaghetti sauce. What? What?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Oh, my goodness.

[OG]

Calling me a communist when you pour

[Doug]

it out of a jar. We're not making sauce with Marzano tomatoes like you do at your fancy house.

[OG]

That's not my fault. And pizza sauce out of a jar is different than pasta sauce out of a jar.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I feel bad because we've had lots of phenomenal conversations in the basement lately that actually are. Which is our Facebook group, Stackers, if you want to join us. But I gotta tell you that I can just see this is. This is going to be the discussion for the next two days. Now, we've been talking about all this great financial planning stuff, and now the next two days, we're going to debate

[OG]

meatloaf, which is not a debate. There's nothing to debate. So it'll be pretty short.

[Doug]

100 a debate.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

100%. Okay, Doug. So same question. Are you kind of the crusty outside the meatloaf, or are you the middle, juicy center?

[Doug]

No, no, no. I like the cr. Everything. I like the crust. The corner brownie piece. The corner piece in, like, a Detroit pizza. Oh, yeah, yeah. The crust on a meatloaf. I'm all about the crust. I'm the guy who will eat the bread crust piece everybody else leaves in the bag. I like that. Put that in a toaster.

[OG]

Yeah, that's just bread.

[Doug]

Fantastic.

[OG]

I agree with that.

[Doug]

Oh, you're okay with that part?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

That's where the line is Doug. There's this definitive line right there.

[OG]

It's just a different color bread. Like, people freak out about it. Thank you.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Let's get to our headline.

[OG]

Hello, darlings. And now it's time for your favorite part of the show, our stacking Benjamin's Headlines.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I was inspired by this piece. Greg, who writes a lot of great stuff, presented this one. Retirees are thinking of annuities the wrong way and it may trip them up, advisors say. So today we're going to talk about annuities, which I think is great, guys, because nothing says party like an insurance product. You can't explain at dinner, right? No, it's this odd anybody. So here's the deal. Annuities are having a moment again because rates are higher, markets feel shaky, and people during this time always get sold on this idea that you want certainty. The core idea. OG let's start here. The core idea of an annuity is turning a chunk of your savings into. Into this guaranteed paycheck for life.

[OG]

Yes.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

And that's a solid idea. That's the piece at the party that we can explain. Right? That's a piece. We can go, oh, what's an annuity? It turns it into a paycheck for life. Not wrong. Right.

[OG]

Well, except the problem is, is that I don't know the stat. Maybe you have it, but some large percentage of annuities never are turned into paychecks. So the purpose of the tool isn't being used for the purpose of the tool. So if you're saying, hey, I'm going to buy an annuity because I want to have a guaranteed stream of income for the rest of my life, setting aside for a second that there's some significant downfalls to that idea, most people, and it's a high number, I don't know what it is off the top of my head, but it Is in the 80% range or higher of annuity contracts are never annuitized, which is the whole purpose of that.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

And that means turning it into that guaranteed paycheck.

[OG]

Yeah. Here's the other side of that. When you say, hey, I've got $100,000, I want to turn this into a paycheck of 500 bucks a month for the rest of my life, the trade off is once I sign that paperwork, I am no longer getting the lump sum ever again, nor is my family or spouse or whatever. So that feeling of like, oh, crap, what if I get hit by a bus on the way to the mailbox to get the first check? That's the risk that you're taking no different than a pension or something like that. So no one wants to do that. So instead they end up with a product that has generally higher fees, generally lower investment returns. And the whole purpose of having it is never used for those higher fees and lower returns. So you end up with this like hybrid of like slop that doesn't fulfill the need of what you had it for.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

It is so sad, I guess, that if you buy an annuity with the express idea of having this guaranteed paycheck, we're so afraid of the irrevocableness, I guess is the word, the fact that I can't take it back, that we don't do it. Because what it does really well with the annuity does really well is it solves that great retirement fear of running out of money. And I think it was Ben Stein, the guy that was the. He did a game show for a while, but he also was on Ferris Bueller's Day Off. He was the economics teacher, I believe. And Ben Stein, very smart, by the way.

[Doug]

Speechwriters for presidents and speech.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Right, yeah, we'll go super smart guy,

[Doug]

but we'll go with Ferris Buell also.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

That, that too. Whatever Ben said with his parents, he said, you know what? My parents, I was never going to teach them about money. There was just, it just was never going to happen. He goes setting a pension up for them with some of their money was like the best freedom of worry for those people, his own parents.

[OG]

Except if you actually do the math on it, you would go, well, wait a second, this income doesn't rise with inflation. Nobody rise with cost of living.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[OG]

So now I've just created this other. Well, and that was, you know, catastrophic problem 100.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

That's actually was Ben's point at some point with some people it's not about the math. It's that no matter what you do, you're never going to teach them how this works and they're going to freak out about stuff that they shouldn't be freaking out about that they're not going to understand the strategy. So you know what? Just give them the freedom from that.

[OG]

Let's just run out of money slowly.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Just give them the freedom. But retirement does have two problems that I think we should address that annuities try to solve. The first one is that markets are unpredictable and oh gee, markets being unpredictable. Actually, while annuities present that as a annuity, salespeople present that as a problem. This is actually the win. The fact that markets are unpredictable is how you're able to generate enough money without using annuities for the excess return that allows you to not run out of money so fast.

[OG]

There's so many layers to this annuity conversation that I think, every time I think, okay, this is the basic level, it's like, well, no, we should probably go back even a half a step further before that. Because on its face, an annuity is just a contract with an insurance company where you say, you give me a guaranteed return of principal back, like I'm going to give you a lump sum, you're going to turn that into a stream of income for the rest of my life, or if I'm willing to take a little less money for the rest of my life and another person's life, just like your pension. But what annuity companies have realized, and they realized this a long, long time ago, was because of that trade off. Right? What did you say? The irrevocableness of.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Sure, that's a word, I think we coined a new one of that decision.

[OG]

They said, well, people aren't going to do that, but we still want to sell annuities because, you know, we're an annuity company and that's how we make our money, so what can we do? So now we started layering in other sort of features, probably bugs actually, but marketed as features to offset the things that people don't like. So instead of saying, like, for example, well, now you turn this into a lifetime stream of income and you lose the, the principal value. Annuity companies go, wait a second, we can do the lifetime stream of income anyway. We're just going to charge you a little extra for it and you actually still own the money. Well, how great is that? Now you get a little bit of both. Or people say, well, annuities are bad because the rate of return is really low because it's an insurance company, it's got to be guaranteed, right? So you think about like the guarantee payout, so they have to invest your money in guaranteed products so that there's a guaranteed stream of income. You know, multiply that by millions of customers and you say, well, that sucks. And they go, well, hold on, we'll just stuff it with variable sub accounts, kind of like mutual funds, but we'll charge you for that also because, you know, we still have to have this guarantee side of our business. So we got to offset the fact that we're giving you some flexibility with some more guarantees, so we'll charge you for it. And so you end up with this wrapper around your investment account. Under the assumption of this is a better deal, when really you just paid for the illusion of security or the illusion of flexibility when you could have had that outside of that. You know, the sales pitch right now. And back to how we think about investment products, you know, both stacking bedrooms and how we think about it. You know, in our planning firm, every tool has a use. The problem is, is that we use the tool incorrectly, and that's where it gets as bad juju from. I do think that annuities have a use. I don't use them very often because I disagree with the use case. But to your point and to Ben Stein's point and maybe to the author's point here, there is a use case for them if you use them in the appropriate way. But the sales pitch right now is get all the return of the upside, none of the downside. And so now they've merged these things and they go. And you just look, there's a little asterisk. It's a really small font. You have to, like, zoom in on your screen to be able to see the asterisk. And it goes, yeah. Subject to some limitations. You don't get all the upside. And to get the none of the downside, we charge you for none of the downside. All these layers of complexity to basically say, how do I have a stock account but get charged three times as much.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I'm laughing. Oh, geez, you're talking. Because all I can think of is when you decide to buy an annuity with all these sub accounts in it and all of these quote, guarantees in it, that they charge you more, and they charge you more, and they charge you more, what you're saying is because they're selling you on the unpredictability of the markets and how they're going to solve that. But if you walk back away from that and you go, what you're really saying is you're telling the market, I don't trust you anymore, which is fine, we could talk about that. But instead, I'm gonna go hang out with an insurance company over. I don't trust the market, so I'm gonna hang out with an insurance company. I don't think I did.

[OG]

Well, my favorite thing with that, of course, is the other side of it, which is, you know, and this gets into the sales process of it. I was having a conversation with somebody a couple of weeks ago, a month ago or so, and they were evaluating this product from another provider, and they said, well, you know, it doesn't cost anything. I'm like, really, I mean, just think about this logically. Was there a building where these people work? Were they all completely financially independent? We're like, you know what? We're good. It's so good.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

We're fine.

[OG]

We're good. We don't need commissions. I don't need to get paid. I don't need any, you know, I'm the CEO. I don't need any bonuses. I don't care what my stock does anymore. I'm so wealthy. I want to create an entire organization layered with professional people who also are all apparently financially independent that they need absolutely no money either. So we can do this all for free for you. And we've worked out a special deal with AT&T, so we don't pay cell phone bills. We've worked out a special deal with Google, so we don't have to have, you know, Internet bills. And we don't pay taxes for this big giant building we have to the city either, because, you know, we're doing such great work for all of these people that everyone has decided to chip in to help us do this for free. And the motivation for us isn't money or success. It's just the fact that we get to do all of this for free. Bull crapola. When you just think about it that way, nobody does that. It's just not transparent. Like I told this person on the phone a couple of weeks ago, if you actually presented this correctly, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But the industry writ large, there's some. How about that? Doug has decided to make this the most, you know, what's the opposite of transparent? Opaque, Opaque product possible. And fill it with like a bunch of nonsense, you know, that just logically doesn't make sense. Sell it correctly. If you love this thing and you're an annuity salesperson, sell it correctly. And then, then report back and let me know how it works out for you.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Which is why I think when you talk about use case being a stream of income you can't outlive is important because a way that you'll see good advisors often use annuities is because you might live a really long time. And it's this longevity insurance. So it can help you there. But I want to go back to the other side of that. Trusting insurance companies is the downside. There's people going, well, wait a minute, why should I trust the financial markets? Well, you know what? If you're trying to trust an individual company, that doesn't make a lot of sense. But what we've learned over time to do with the unpredictable nature of the markets is look at long term periods versus short term periods, which means I'm thinking about the economy. I'm not thinking about one investment, I'm thinking about the economy. And if the economy is going to continue, these companies are going to have to perform. And for them to perform, their stock goes up. It's just a reflection of a healthy economy. So we solve it with long term thinking and diversification, which really, oh gee, that becomes your annuity. Right? But for some people, they can't do that. For some people, they're just not going to learn that. And I remember from time to time, back when I was an advisor finding those people, I, I could talk to them all day and it just wasn't going to make it so that they understood a lot of this. So I think the good is you can't outlive it. It's this lifetime income paycheck replacement. It gives you, it gives you peace of mind. Oh gee, to your point, you're paying for the peace of mind. But, but you'll get the peace of mind. You want to worry about it again, it is an irrevocable peace of mind, which is why people make it halfway there. They buy the damn product to do it.

[OG]

Irrevocable. Doug, how about you? Is it, do you like irrevocable better or. Pause, Joe, I know you're on it.

[Doug]

Irrevocality, vocabulary.

[OG]

Yes.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

And I, I do like how it works when it's a piece of a larger financial plan. I don't like it. Like when I saw, when I saw people would come into my office and all they had were annuities, I was like, oh man. Oh, you just got sold. But if you've got this little lifetime stream annuity that's coupled with investments, Social Security.

[OG]

Well, let me give you some use cases that I think sometimes could make sense just as a, you know, so I'm not annuity anger guy all the time. I can actually, I can actually spell out a few things that I might be interested in using it for. Let's say for example, that you're pairing it with another insurance decision. For example, if you're. I'm going to buy some long term care insurance for Mrs. OG and myself and I know that the policy premium for this long term care coverage is $5,000 a year. I can write a check for $5,000 a year, or I can take $100,000 today and put it in a fixed annuity with a $5,000 a year payout. And now I know no matter how long I live that the annuity income is going to pay for my long term care policy. Like I've earmarked that specific thing and in theory it's not supposed to go up, but we know there's some issues with that. But let's just say that it doesn't. So I like the use case for that. The other use case I can see makes a lot of sense is maybe a deferred annuity. And I think this is maybe where you might go with this, Joe, and say, I actually think I'm good from 65 to 80. I don't know if I'm going to live to be 90. You know, grandma and grandpa did. So maybe I do. What I'm really concerned with is this unknown of like, what if they fix all these health problems and I live to be like 105 or 113 or something like that on the back end and I'm healthy but my retirement income is like kind of, you know, in the 90ish range. So I like the idea of saying, okay, I'm going to put some money aside that I turn on at 90 years old and that's going to provide me a bump up of income from 90 to that, whatever that end age is going to be in case I do live too long versus putting money in at 65, turning on at 65, put it in at 65, let it sit there until 90. So you're not making that irrevocableness ish decision at 65. You're waiting until you're like, okay, I'm 90 now. Like the kids are taking care of, the grandkids are taking care of. This is about me. I need to, I need to make sure I can pay my bills and put food on the table, lock it in. Now I can turn on this thing without having to make that decision. And if I die when I'm 88, then you know, there's still this bucket of money that goes to my ears like it's supposed to.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Yeah, it can still be part of your legacy plan.

[OG]

Yeah. So I think that makes a little bit more use case sense for me than, you know, a six year old retiree going, I'm scared about the market. So I'm going to put 30% of my portfolio in this, you know, 3% product.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Yeah, I definitely see that as the good. The bad just I think to encapsulate, oh gee. Because I was sitting here taking notes while, while you were riffing on so many Things number one, as you were listening, I'm sure stackers, you were hearing og talk about all these bells and whistles and just the complexity. It's one of the most poorly understood products and for good reason. It just, it's so. There's so many bells and whistles, there's so many add ons, which means extra fees and extra commissions. They can be opaque, they can be high. And that lack of flexibility that you talked about, the fact that it's irrevocable makes people get half sucked in, which is almost worse than getting completely sucked in and turning into a stream of income. If you go halfway, then finish the deal. But lack of flexibility, people worry about you're locking money up.

[OG]

And Joe, what do you think about like so we've talked about this from a retirement income standpoint. What do you think about the 40 year old that walks into the air quote financial advisor office and has a regular brokerage account, an IRA and then a variable annuity IRA also like is this. That's a big no. No. Yeah. Is that how you like annuities inside?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

An IRA is an abomination.

[OG]

Okay, all right. Yeah.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

An annuity inside, not or ira. Correct.

[OG]

You pass the test. Good.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Well, you're paying for, well, what's an IRA do? And people don't know what, you know, what the test is all about. But here's the way I see it is that an IRA is a tax shelter so that you don't pay taxes until you pull the money out. Right, Right. And an annuity is a tax shelter where you pay money.

[OG]

You don't pay taxes until you pulled money out.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I would always ask people, mike, why the hell do you have a tax shelter inside of a tax shelter? Like what are we doing? And we're paying the annuity people for the tax shelter piece of that. So if I'm paying the annuity people and then I have the ir, what the hell am I doing? Why would I do?

[OG]

Yeah, I would say almost universally this is a decision, if you're going to have it is nearing retirement, not any amount of time before that.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I think 40 year old and annuity don't go together. Yeah, fight me on that one. Stackers. I'd love to hear, hear your thoughts, but I can't, I can't think of a time when I saw 40 year old with annuity and I went, that's

[OG]

a headline of a blog post. 40 and annuity don't go together.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

No, here I think is the adult conversation. Stackers, annuities by themselves not good or bad can be really, really bad. I love the fact, and I underlined this as you said it. OG they are a tool, right? They are a screwdriver. And it's this weird screwdriver that you don't ever use very often. You know, you got like the. Your basic Phillips head and your basic screwdrivers. This is not that one. That's. This is that funky Allen wrench one, but not the one, the little starry Allen wrench piece that you use once every 10 years. I think you got to ask yourself three questions. First one is, what problem am I trying to solve? Don't start with the annuity. Don't start with the annuity salesperson. Don't start with I'm afraid of the market. Start with, what is the problem? Is it income? Is it taxes? Is it my legacy? What am I trying to do? And then second, how much of my portfolio should go here? And I don't think, OG I've seen a use case where it should be a bunch. And the third one is, you know, that irrevocableness. Ish. Prosody is something.

[Doug]

The prosody.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

There's a. There's a trade off, right? Do I understand the. The trade off? So at the end of the day, I think it's a little like those samples of Costco that Doug likes so much when he walks around Costco. Like if he's trying them out once in a while or maybe in little tiny bits, it's okay. But when Doug decides that's dinner time, we all pay for that.

[Doug]

Oh, you're gonna wind me up on this one, Joe, because there's so many people who just crowd around that poor old lady who's trying to cook those things in the little oven they give her and then cut it up into tiny cubes and they want 11 of them because they're free lunch. I'm just trying to get to the frozen pizza aisle and they've clogged up the whole aisle.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Doug. Doug wants to get to the frozen pizza aisle, but he wants to taste the weenie first. That's the. That's the deal.

[Doug]

Because there's hundreds of people waiting for that little old lady to cook them.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

We will link to this piece Greg Irakirchi piece from CNBC on our show notes page@stacking benjamins.com I'm sure Kevin is going to be writing about this in the near Future over at the 201, our newsletter. Always with a hot take at the 201. And goodness, there's a lot to talk about with annuities. All right. There's also a lot going on in stacker land. We're going to wander out to the segment we call the Back Porch. This is where we talk about all the cool stuff going in the stack of Benjamin's community that stackers. You can be a part of this. Not only join us in the basement, our Facebook group, or join us our newsletter, people hit. If you hit reply on the newsletter. I also love chatting and Kevin loves chatting about the topics there. So if you're not local to a place, you can do those things. But Doug, we also have these meetup groups we call Benjamin's After Dark or.

[Doug]

Yeah, there's a. I'm gonna. We're gonna talk about that in a second. But you forgot another easy, cool way to hang out with us. It's on on Monday afternoons when we record our roundtable episodes on YouTube.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Yes.

[Doug]

Talk about an easy, awesome, fun way to just hang out. At least you get to. It's. Here's the thing. They get to like shoot these, these rounds of ammunition across our bow while we're recording. They show up in the comments. We can't do a darn thing about it. People are just having fun talk. But it's hilarious. So join. Join that. But there is. There are a lot of great things happening out there in Badlands.

[Beth Kobliner]

Huh?

[Doug]

See what I did there?

[Joe Saul Sehi]

We have some speakers. Before we get to that, we have some great speakers and people that are incredibly well versed advisors or deep thinkers. A gentleman named Mark Troutman joins us frequently. Chris Luger joins us quite a bit. Paul Merman has joined us in as a guest, but he's also joined us in the. In the comments. Just watching the show. Often you get two shows. You get the thing that's going to appear on the podcast and you also get the additional contributions of some pretty smart stackers.

[Doug]

And sometimes, and this is where it's just rude. I mean, I just want to. I think I need to air some dirty laundry here. Our stackers are having these meaningful conversations in the comment section with each other and they're not listening to us. The gold that we are producing, they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Can you guys quiet down for a minute? Because we're over here answering and asking questions and learning stuff.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

I'm sure they would say we need some adults in the room.

[Doug]

Yeah, right.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Doug, what's going on the Locally.

[Doug]

Yeah. The other places that they're getting together and learning stuff and having great conversations are all over the country. Really, man, this list is growing. Here's a great goal, Joe, is to get to a point where we don't have time to read through all of these meetups. And the list is growing, the cities are growing and there's a lot of demand. An incredibly smart guy named Doug in Northern Virginia asked if there was going to be a bad group forming anywhere in that whole northern va you know, dc, Georgetown, Arlington, we've got some interest in Maryland, which isn't that just kind of all one metro area? I think.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Watch what's funny. David and I, the guy in Maryland who initially fired the first shot here, he and I were talking about this. I wrote an email to people within 100 miles and I got so many answers back that we actually are already have a Zoom call scheduled. So I'm fairly certain, Doug, that we're going to have something happen in the

[Doug]

D.C. maryland's on the launch pad.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Maryland, Baltimore ish area will more to come on that front.

[Doug]

Yeah, the Bay Area, there's a lot of interest in the Bay Area. I'm assuming that means San Fran

[Beth Kobliner]

and

[Joe Saul Sehi]

you said that specifically just 100. I love how you just like to poke the bear.

[Doug]

Oh yeah, poking things, putting peas in mattresses. That's all I love to do.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Yeah. As we record this, we're about to have our Zoom call with that potential leadership group as well. So Bay Area, it looks like Benjamin's After Dark going to be happening fairly soon. We're probably, I would guess with the Bay Area we're further along than we are on DC slash Baltimore. So I would say we're maybe, we're maybe three, I would guess September. Bay Area, that group's going to be ready to have their first meeting.

[Doug]

You know who's ready a lot sooner than that, Joe? The Boston group, they're meeting in a few hours. The Boston group is meeting on May 13th probably tonight. It's a good chance that's tonight at 6pm at Hannah's Brewing in Melrose. And we know about a meeting for the Southern Minnesota bad group. They're meeting on May 27th at 6:30 where they always meet nice and consistent. That group you can always count on. The Mankato group, they're meeting at 6:30 at the Maverick Innovation Gateway on the

[Joe Saul Sehi]

campus of Minnesota State University there.

[Doug]

Seattle, Twin Cities, Tucson. Don't forget to let us know and post. And folks, here's the thing. I know you love hearing us talk about it, but the easiest way to figure out if there's something happening in your area, go to stackingbenjamins.com meetup and all of this stuff is posted out there. You know me, I just read what's what somebody puts in front of me. So I'm just reading all this stuff off of our website.

[Joe Saul Sehi]

Well, here's what you won't have to read, Doug, because I know you internalized it. What are the top three things on your list that we talked about today?

[Doug]

I have inculcated it into my very soul. Well, Joe, here's what's stacked up on our to do list for today. First, take some advice from Beth Kobliner. Get the basics of money right and the rest will take care of itself. Stay out of debt, build an emergency fund, and think carefully through your spending. It's that easy. Then you're off saving Benjamins and stacking them like a champ. Second, annuities. Not all bad, but buyer beware. If you're doing anything other than creating a pension for yourself, you're probably buying an annuity for the wrong reason. But the big lesson, don't ask Joe's mom to spice up the meatloaf. She'll counter by helping you spice up your day by, like, pulling weeds and the flower beds, which, honestly, I think about. It's not that spicy. I'm not going to argue anymore. I mean, she's going to keep throwing stuff at me like washing dishes or de furring the cat or. I don't know. She's asked me some crazy stuff before. That's on the list, I bet. Thanks to the Beth Cobliner for helping us mentor you today. You'll find the updated edition of Get a Financial Life wherever books are sold. We'll also include links in our show [e-mail] this show is the property of SB Podcast, LLC, Copyright 2026 and is created by Josal Sehai. You'll find out about our awesome [e-mail] along with the show notes and how you can find find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello. And oh yeah, before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don't take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and we'll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show.