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The Stacking Benjamins Show
Board Games That Make You Smarter With Money (Without Feeling Like School) SB1767
01:15:59
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I quit playing board games five years ago.
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C
Live from Joe's Mom's basement, it's the Stacking Benjamin show. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and welcome to Mom's basement where normally we play the game of financial literacy. But on today's special edition, it's all board games with our special guest board game mentor. From Pittsburgh's famous Games Unlimited, we welcome Kylie Primus. And now here's a guy who thinks that inflation did it in the cafe with a credit card. It's Joe Sal. See high.
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A
Well, thanks, Doug. Welcome everyone to a special edition of the Stacky Benjamin show. I am Joe Salcehe and stackers. This is my favorite episode of the year. I know they should be like your children. They should be all created equal, but they're not. And every, every parent knows that with your kid.
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B
No, that's horrible.
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A
That is absolutely horrible. Of course you love your kids equally, but with these episodes, you don't have to love them equally. You know, early on in Stacking Benjamin's days, nobody was listening to our Black Friday Friday episode where every Monday, Wednesday, Friday, if you're new here, nobody was listening to Black Friday. They were out spending money instead of listening to us try to help you save you from that. Right. They were too busy. So I thought, you know what? Nobody's listening. Anyway. I'm going to do one episode. Usually these episode stackers are for you and they're for me. This episode was just going to be for me because for those of you that are new here, you may not know that I absolutely love board games. I've had a long history of board games from the time that I was in elementary school and a teenager. Our family went without a television for a little while. And for that reason I fell in love with this. But I fell in love with not the competitiveness, but I fell in love with community and getting people around, the shared experience that we're having and getting friends together. And it was such a fun way to experience life that as an adult I got back into it. So I've been very lucky when I started this. These episodes that we have had some of the biggest board game luminaries. Come and join us. For those of you that don't know board games, you're like, is there such thing as game luminaries?
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B
There are.
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A
There are a ton of phenomenal people in this industry. So I've been super happy that a lot of them have joined us. People from Board Game Geek, which is the biggest online site for board games. And by the way, I'll link to all of these in our show notes@Stacky Benjamin.com the Dice Tower, a big board game podcast. My favorite board game podcaster, a guy named Mark Johnson, who I absolutely love. He's Come on, Maggie. Maggie and Amy from Thinker Themer. They're my favorite YouTube channel looking at board games. They're from Australia. I could listen to those two ladies talk forever. My favorite publisher and a great designer, Jamie Stegmeer from Stoneme Games has been on and even you last year we had three stackers come on and you shared some of your favorites. But we've never had on my favorite Tiktoker and we've never had my favorite board game store owner. Which is going to be kind of funny because I've never said I've had a favorite board game store owner and now I totally do. And the funny thing about this Games Unlimited is this store that I've never been to, it's in Pittsburgh. I was in Pittsburgh one time when my son Nick was looking at going to Carnegie Mellon. We had a blast. Went to see the Pirates play. We saw this train concert. Long story. It was a super time in Pittsburgh. Here's what's super cool about Games Unlimited. I'm not alone in that. I love this store. Like for any trade, there are trade shows for board games. And at an industry conference called Gamma, they won four. Not one, not two, not Three, but four huge awards at this big board game meeting. They won innovation in gaming and award because of the unique way that they built board game Fans online through TikTok. People like me that just discovered them. Outstanding contribution to the games industry in retail. Because of their significant contributions to the overall gaming community. Outstanding store design. Here's a hilarious thing. My niece Saffron now goes to college in Pittsburgh. She and my sister and brother in law, a couple weeks ago they go, hey, we found a game store. They show me a picture and I said, you're in Games Unlimited, like all caps. Because I, I knew from the store design exactly where they were. And finally, Retailer of the Year celebrated for outstanding achievement, innovation, contribution and design. So today I feel like we're going to complete the circle of getting all of my board game friends online. These people that don't know me but they help me geek out on games. The grand poobah of board games at Games Unlimited, Kylie Primus joins us. How are you, Kylie?
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B
I'm doing well, Joe, how are you?
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A
I wish you and Games Unlimited have done something. I mean, it's incredible. I feel like you guys just sit around with your feet up, not taking any of this seriously. Like, holy cow, how many, how do you win four awards in one year?
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B
Well, I do got to correct you, we actually only won two of those that you mentioned. There were four given out. They give out those four every year.
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A
Gotcha.
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B
That is not to say I'm still eligible to win outstanding store design and outstanding contribution. You can win multiple. I didn't know you could win multiple this year when we won, you know, because I was, I went into the events kind of thinking I was going to win something, hoping I'd win Retailer of the Year. And then they called innovation, called us for innovation. I was like, that's cool. But that probably means I'm not Retailer of the Year. So I was. Weird thing to be disappointed about, right? But then I was like, they called me up for Retailer of the Year.
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A
That is, that is awesome. You have a story, by the way, that I think our stackers will enjoy because we talk a lot about this fire movement, Kylie, in Money, which is financial independence, retire early. And a piece that I've always had a problem with are people that have so much they can contribute to society and they decide to retire early. You were someone who, early in your career you weren't that excited about the field you were in or you weren't in love with what you were doing and you were able to switch careers.
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B
Mid Path, Yeah, absolutely. I actually, through high school, I decided I was going to be a philosophy professor. That was my path. That was my dream job. You know, I went. I was working on a PhD in philosophy. I was teaching and, you know, in my early 30s, decided, you know what? I really don't like the direction that academia is going. I don't want to do this for the rest of my life. I've loved teaching, and actually, I think teaching is a big part of what helps. You know, teaching is a lot of stage presence, it's a lot of performance, you know, so those skills still help me. But I had just moved to Pittsburgh. I had just gotten married. My spouse and I were really into board games. And I was going into this game store called Games Unlimited. The owner there, Bob, he really got me excited about games. He was excited about my excitement for games. And as I was at the time just working in a coffee shop, looking for a new career path. And I said to my spouse one day, you know, maybe. Maybe I should open a game store. No background in business, no background in anything. You know, I'd work some retail jobs. I'd worked at Starbucks. You know, I'd done that. But that was about it. And she encouraged me to go talk to Bob, which was a bit strange. Like, well, you. You have a game store. I'm. I want to open a game store. You know, wait a minute.
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A
Who is she? Your wife did?
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B
Yes, my wife did.
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A
Your wife said, go talk to Bob about maybe working there, about opening a.
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Store, about what that would look like. Yeah.
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A
Wow.
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B
She actually, you know, since you mentioned just some of the different things and careers changes, what she had brought up is a book by a man named Parker Palmer, who says, your vocation is where your great passion meets the world's great need. And I was like, this is definitely a passion of mine. But also, I was very upset that I didn't discover tabletop games until my 30s. I was like, why was no one telling me this existed? I was a big video game player, but not tabletop. And so Games Unlimited and Bob helped me discover this thing that I became so passionate about. And I said, more people need to know about this. Why don't people know about it? And that was part of the impetus of, like, maybe I can do this as a career.
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A
Yeah, because you like a lot of the same things. I like the community aspect, the fact that we get to have the shared experience, the laughing, the groaning, calling each other names, which, by the way, stackers with me and my friends, and we play Games. When I call my friends a name, what that means, Kylie is fine. Move, my friend.
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B
Exactly. Yeah. You know, and I pretty much, to this day, very rarely touch video games anymore. That used to be my big hobby, but I like the social, the face to face of Tabletop. So, yeah, I said to Bob, you know, I don't want to step on your toes, but I'd love to, you know, maybe open a game store someday. And he had seen. He's getting. He was getting up to retirement age. He was in his 60s, and he saw something in me. He said, hey, do you want to come on kind of apprentice? I'll introduce you to people in the industry. I'll teach you how I've done it. Games Unlimited opened in 1979.
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A
Wow.
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B
I have not yet been disabused of this. The oldest game store in the. In the United States.
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A
I was thinking when you wrote this to me, I was maybe 8 or 9, maybe 10, and I went into a place called the Plum Fairy. It was a hobby and craft store. And they had one little row of Avalon Hill games and Dungeons and Dragons modules and that's where I bought stuff. And then Riders Hobby shop when I was maybe 14 or 15. But not a straight board game store.
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B
Yeah, no, they were very rare. We actually, on my own podcast, we just did an interview with Bob and talking about the research he did back then, what stores he found. Also back then, not a lot of just pure game stores. So I came on and he started teaching me the ropes. And unfortunately, he fell ill later in the year and kind of said. Handed me the keys and said, you know enough. And I was like, I don't know enough. But it was sort of trial by fire. I took over. I purchased the store from them in 2015. And long story short, he is now the adopted grandparent to my kids, my two little girls. A few years ago, he purchased the house across the street from us so he could be close to us in his retirement years. And he's just a part of the family.
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A
That's so wild. I love the mentorship story there too, that he mentored you on how this worked. He also, you know, gave you the keys to the store before he felt you were ready, but was still, I mean, in a spot where I think you could call him right. If something went terribly wrong. I'm going to get a little money nerdy for just a second. A lot of people out there think they don't have the money to open up a store their own. What I think a lot of people don't realize is that for a lot of owners they can do something which is kind of like a pay over time model where you pay them over four or five years. Did you do one of those models or did you have to go down to the bank and grab a loan?
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B
No, I actually. Well, I got my in laws to give me the loan to pay back over five years so that I could, I could pay Bob outright. Game stores in particular, you know, are a, they are not something that banks are familiar with. And the business model is, you know, you know, if you want to open a shoe store, they're like, oh, we know how shoe stores work. We know how restaurants work. It's difficult to get a small business loan to open a game store.
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A
Hey, yeah, board games, huh? That's what you decided, right? I could see a baker. Go ahead, baby. Maybe not. And yet what's really cool, if you follow Kylie and Games Unlimited on YouTube or on TikTok where I follow them. I love how you do a lot of behind the scenes stuff about how, you know, how do you know what to order, how do you, how do you price games, how do you compete nationwide and worldwide? It's such a fascinating thing. Well, thank you for giving us the insight into that. You can Even in your 30 stackers go into the thing that, that you love. And I got to assume. Now, I don't know how old you are but based on your video presence it seems like you're doing what you were born to do. Would you say that's true or no?
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B
I mean, I think so. Like I said, you know, teaching prepared me for it. I definitely. My father was a musician and entertainer. I've got a brother who's a Broadway actor. Definitely performance is in the genes but yeah, I really do see it as, you know, my teaching was preface to this. It's being in front of people, being comfortable showing them. I'm still teaching people things.
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A
You are teaching. That's my first thought. Yeah.
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B
I love my job. It's definitely not something I would have expected. I even love all of the back end, like the business part of it. You know, I've grown an affinity for it and dealing with the finance and everything.
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But like me, it appears that's where your hair went, Kylie.
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Yep, that's what's all gone.
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Yeah. Well, Kylie's been nice enough everybody to make two lists for us. We're going to explain what those lists are in just a moment but we've got a couple sponsors that help us keep on keeping on and you get all today's board game Black Friday. Goodness. You have to pay a dime for any of this. We're going to hear from them and then Kylie is going to go over. I'll explain what the two lists are and Kylie's going to go over those in just a minute. This message is sponsored by Navy Federal Credit Union. As the holiday season rolls around, we know that you strive to do everything you can to bring cheer and joy to your loved ones. And as a credit union dedicated to serving all veterans, active duty and their families, we understand that every little bit counts. That's why for a limited time, you could earn a 250 cash bonus when you spend $2,500 with Navy Federal's cash rewards and cash rewards plus cards in the first 90 days. Of course, Stackers this is part of a big financial plan, right? Don't get yourself into debt. Make sure that you are spending and saving with a plan. But you know what? The giving doesn't stop there. You could also earn up to 2% unlimited cash back with these cards. So saving up for whatever the season brings just got a little easier. Give joy, get joy. Join now@navy federal.org Navy Federal Credit Union Our members are the mission. Navy Federal is insured by NCUA. Visit Navy federal.org cashrewards for details. Cash back terms and conditions apply. Offer ends January 1, 2026. Well, this year, Stacker give a gift that goes far beyond the moment and invest 529 account. Whether it's a child, grandchild or someone just starting out, you're helping them save for education that could open doors for a lifetime. Invest529 is a tax advantage way to save for college, trade school or even apprenticeship programs. It's flexible, easy to start and you can contribute any amount, big or small. And because the money can grow tax free, it's a gift that really builds value over time. So instead of giving something that gets used up or set aside, give the gift that can change a life. Start and invest 529 account today go to invest5to9.com to learn more and to get started. Investments involve risk. Results vary. Consult with your financial and tax professionals. Administered by Commonwealth Savers Plan. All right, here we go. Kylie is going to go over his top five games that either have an economic engine or maybe are about money or have a money component to them before the halfway point of today's show. Now these are the rules I sent to Kylie. I did not want games that teach you about money. I have learned so much from games Myself. But you know what? Stackers, games that teach you about money, in my opinion, so suck. They're absolutely. They're absolutely horrible. But I learned so much about, as an example, energy and how energy works from a game called Power Grid. I've learned a little bit about wine making from a game that's behind me, Viticulture. I've learned. You learn these little things that are kind of entryways into the world of business or finance. Stockpile. I learned about insider trading. Stockpile. You learn just a little bit, which makes me then excited when I do go learn. So I didn't ask Kylie to give us games that teach you about money, but games that maybe are an introduction or have an economic engine that'll be a fun introduction. Then the second half of today's show. Kylie's also nice enough to give us his top five games to play with people that might not love games around the holidays or might not be introduced to games to play around the holidays. Everybody walks into like a Target or a Walmart around the holidays and they grab this game based on the box art and the game absolutely sucks. And then they get frustrated, the family hates it. Nobody wants to play games anymore. Well, we got the man who knows what games to play around the holidays with the family. With that introduction, Kylie, let's start with the economic games or the money game. Was it hard narrowing it down to 5?
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B
It wasn't hard narrowing. It was actually hard for me to get there specifically because a lot of games that really focus on economics, not teaching you money, as you said, but just with a focus on economics, tend to be bigger, heavier strategy games, long games. And I don't play those as much anymore. I do love them, you know, when I get the chance, but I'm sort of nature of my job, you give me the choice to play one three hour game or three one hour games. I go for the latter because I do. Hopefully you won't feel a little too bait and switched here. The philosopher in me thinks about economies and finance a little differently. So there's a couple things on this list that may not normally have been thought of as like economic games, but I'm gonna explain why I think they're important.
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A
We got some of that a couple years ago from Amy and Maggie at Thinker Themer too. I'm like, what? That's an economic Radlands. They brought up radlands?
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B
Yeah.
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A
And I'm like, really? They're like, yeah, water is economy. And I was like, wow.
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B
Wow.
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A
Surprising. All right, here we go. Number five.
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B
All right. My number five. This is one of those strange one, but this is the philosopher in me that likes to think about what money really means. This is a game called at the Gates of Luoyang. It is out of print, but a new studio is publishing it. So there is a new version coming out sometime soon. I don't know if it'll be out by the time this airs. But at the Gates of Luoyang is a game about 5th century China. You are farmers. You're farming leeks and radishes and pumpkins, and you've got customers that want certain things, but you've got to plant fields, plant the particular crop you want, and then more are going to grow and you fulfill customer demand and you get money for it, and then you use that money to buy more fields. You know, basic stuff. There's supply and demand, customers that want stuff, and you need to plant seeds and do things. But money is not the goal of the game. The goal of the game is to get victory points, which they call moving up on the path of prosperity. Oh, so the path of prosperity is really where you're focused. The thing that this game does that I haven't seen done in in other games, and I haven't played this game in years. I had to, like, go back and look up the specifics of how it works because I remembered loving the game plays over nine rounds. And every round you're allowed to spend some of your money to move up the path of prosperity. You start at zero and it goes up to 20, 30, whatever. But each round moving up the very first step of the path costs you $1. And then every step you want to move up after that costs you whatever number on the path it is. So if I'm at 7, I can pay $1 to go to 8, but then it's going to cost me $9 to go to 9 and $10 to go to 10, unless I wait until next round. Next round, it would only cost me $1 to go to 9. So you get like one quote unquote free step on the path every round, which clearly you want to do every round you're going to at least pay the $1, but you want to push up as much as you can because the further you move, the more of a quote unquote discount you're going to get next round. Right, but it's forcing you to think about, look, I've got this war chest of money that I could use next round to invest, but buying the things that really matter is Cheaper if I really push it now and it makes it cheaper in the future. So there's this real tension between the long term planning and the short term and the money you need to actually make your engine work versus the money you're spending to get what's important in life on the path of prosperity. Wow. I always love games that make you make difficult decisions like that. And in particular, you know, a lot of games. And I think Power Grid does this too. You mentioned that. It's been a year since I've played that, but a lot of games, you know, it's really about build an engine, build an engine, build an engine. And then towards the end of game, that's when you decide, all right, let's cash it all in and get the points.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And this one really encourages you to live dangerously. Cash it in early because the points are cheaper if you cash it in early.
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A
And I can imagine if you overdo that then going, oh, my God, I needed that money. I needed that money. Why did I put so much away? Or the opposite. You're like, oh, I'm sitting on way too much money. I should have invested it earlier.
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B
Yeah, absolutely.
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A
Oh, that's so. That's so good. Do I make a bigger engine or do I put the money in my 401k?
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B
Exactly, exactly. I was very excited to see that it's coming back out because like I said, I haven't played it in years.
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A
This game, I believe, and I'm doing this off the top of my head, but I think this is a very famous designer who did this. Is this UE Rosenberg?
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B
It is UE Rosenberg. It's one of, I believe, back in the day. I mean, this is dating myself as far as, you know, board games go, which is really like 15 years. He was and is a big name designer, but he had something called the Harvest Trilogy, which was Agricola, probably his most well known game. And this one at the Gates of Loyeng and another one called Le Havre, and they're all like economic engines. He's really good at that. And at least Agricola and Le Havana or Agricola and Loyeng about planting and things like that. But yeah, Rosenberg's very, very, very famous. Actually has probably one of the most famous planting games ever known, called Bonanza.
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A
Yes. Oh, my family loves bananas. That game has been on both sides of this list before. It has been on this side where it teaches you about trading and about money, but it's also been on the side because that can be kind of a Party game where I remember my, my dad when he was alive, just going, who wants my stink? Who wants my stink? And what he's doing, stackers, is he's trading stink beans. He's trying to get us to buy his stink beans. And nobody wants them. But we then tease my dad all day long about what? We don't want your stink, dad. Nobody, nobody wants any of that.
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B
That game would not be the same without the stink bean.
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A
No, not at all.
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B
People yelling, stink, stink bean.
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A
And what's interesting about this designer is two other of his deeper, bigger games like this have made the list in previous years. I think it was the Thinker Themer ladies who like Newsford, which is like this fish trading community. And then someone earlier on, maybe Tom Vassel from the Dice Tower, I think really like Laharv, which you mentioned earlier. And I played all those, and you're right, these are two hour, crunchy, beautiful, fun, fun games. I can't wait to try Gates of Lying now. Damn it.
- [24:23]
B
You take it.
- [24:24]
A
More money I got to spend at Games Unlimited, Kylie. All right, let's move on.
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B
Number four. Okay, number four. I don't know if someone's talked about this in the past, but this is a very interesting game. And I will preface by saying it's a game I myself do not like. But this is one of the things, when you run a game store, I need to know who does like it. I need to know about it. I can recommend it. And this is an auction game called qe. Now, the idea behind Q E is that you actually play as like a nation. And there's been a big international banking failure, and now all the nations are basically trying to get stock in companies. But you have your own economy, so you can print your own money, which sounds like a good thing in theory, but if you know a modicum of economics, you know it's not necessarily a great thing. So it's an auction game. It's a blind auction game. Auction games are games where there's something up for offer and everyone just like an auction, you bid, how much are you willing to pay? And there's different types of auctions. Your classic, you know, hey, 500 going once, 500 going twice. You know, that sort of thing. There's blind auctions, where everyone just puts their highest, best bid in an envelope. There's reverse auctions. There's all types of different auctions. The way this auction works is.
- [25:41]
A
Wait a minute, hold on a second. What the hell's a reverse auction?
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B
Oh, a reverse auction, sometimes called A Dutch auction. There's a game just came out recently called Floristry that uses it and it's a two player game, which usually doesn't work in reverse auctions. But a reverse auction is basically, let's say there's six of us around the table and we want to auction off, you know, this work of art by Banksy. And we each have a button and we're going to start the auction at $1,000,000. And there's like a counter that's kitting down 1,999, 998,000. And it just keeps going down until someone hits the button and then they buy it for that price.
- [26:16]
A
Ah, gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. Wow, that's cool. That's wild. So they started a number. Nobody's going to want to pay and then see who's going to accept the pain.
- [26:25]
B
Exactly, Exactly.
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A
Yeah, Gotcha. I'm sorry, go ahead.
- [26:27]
B
Okay. It's okay. So in QE you've got stuff out there for auction. And obviously it's a game about getting the most shares in stocks and stuff like that. There's a way that you evaluate how many companies you have at the end of the game to determine the winner. But it's a blind auction, meaning everyone writes down how much they want to bid. We don't know what the other players bid and then we reveal and whoever bid the most gets the item. But there's no money in this game. We don't have chips in front of us because we can print our own money. There is no limit to how much you can bid. So first round, maybe like, ah, 500 bucks for it. And Joe, you said, you said 750. Oh, we were close. But the guy across the table bid 217,000. What? And he just upped the stakes. Because here's the thing, at the end of the game, the person, because you just keep track of, again, there's no money, there's no one to pay. You keep track. The person who won bid 217,000. He's got a little dry erase board off to the side that says he's bid 217,000. At the end of the game, everyone totals up how much money they paid and the person who paid the most is ineligible to win.
- [27:43]
A
Oh, so that keeps you from just saying 1.6 billion, right?
- [27:47]
B
Well, you can say 1.6 billion as.
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A
Long as somebody else says 1.7 billion.
- [27:52]
B
Well, because the moment I say 1.6 billion, everyone else at the table is like, well, I've got 1.5 billion to play with now, right? They're like, I can bid so much without having going over where Kylie is, except if they bid 1.3 and then they bid, you know, another million. Oh, you're keeping track now. They're the tip lead. So, I mean, I've heard of games where people are literally, like, putting stuff squares to E. That's how much. But the idea is the country, the player who prints the most money, their entire economy collapses due to inflation because they printed too much money. So that's why they cannot win the game.
- [28:31]
A
Oh, that's so funny. I have to tell you, Kylie, this game, when I go to places where lots of money geeks are, I bring this game with me. I take it, because it is such a funny economics exercise. Because to your point, everybody in the first round starts off at 52 bucks, 100 bucks, and by the last round, we're at $1.7 billion. And I caution people, I'm like, do not let inflation run away, because if it does, what I've learned from playing a lot. Maybe this is why you don't like the game. Whoever wins those first couple rounds, odds on favor to win the entire game.
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B
Right. Because they have spent so little money.
- [29:10]
A
Yeah. They spent nothing and got a bunch of stuff. So you have to caution people to try to keep inflation in check, which is why the game actually gets pretty fun with people that know what they're doing. Like, once you get a bunch of experienced people around the table. And I've had times where there's deflation and then I'm angry.
- [29:27]
B
You're the high. You've got the high numbers out there.
- [29:30]
A
Yeah, yeah. So it is funny. When I heard about this game, when I first saw it, I thought, this is a game that I will hate. And then I played it and I laughed my head off. And now it's a game, Kylie, that I like with money geek friends only.
- [29:43]
B
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've only. I've played it once, maybe twice. And that's one of the occupational hazards of running a game store. Is like, almost every game I play, I play once because I've got to go on.
- [29:55]
A
Sure.
- [29:55]
B
And I can often, you know, I usually see. I didn't like that, but I can see how that's a game. If you play it a few more times, you got the right group.
- [30:02]
A
Oh, that's 100% beautiful on this list, I think, because for money geeks, this is great. And I've also found if people have had significant amounts of alcohol, it's also great. I'VE been in both groups.
- [30:14]
B
Inflation definitely runs rampant then.
- [30:17]
A
All right, number three.
- [30:20]
B
Number three. Maybe you've heard of this one, Joe? I mean, given what you do, you must have heard of this. I don't know if you've played it. It came out about 10 years ago. It got a reprint just this past year. This is a game called Ponzi Scheme.
- [30:35]
A
Wow. I have never played this.
- [30:38]
B
Okay, well, it is exactly what it says. It's a Ponzi scheme and it does a couple of interesting things. In some ways, it's a bit of an auction game, but not really. You are buying while you are acquiring company shares. And because this is a Ponzi scheme, what happens is when you take that share, it's going to give you, say, $80, but you are relying on paying out the people above you, quote, unquote, every few rounds. So I might say this is where. 80 bucks. You get 80 bucks to your pocket right now, and every three rounds you are going to have to pay them back $55. And there's no way to pay this off. It is $55 every three rounds in perpetuity. Now, how are you going to pay them back? Well, next round you're going to take another company and maybe this is giving you 90 bucks and pays off. Maybe you've got to pay off every two rounds, but it's only $30 every two rounds. But again, in perpetuity, you can never pay these things off. You are literally robbing Peter to pay Paul with this game. So the rounds are going on. What's going to happen is this is not sustainable.
- [31:44]
A
Clearly, Kylie, I'm just sweating listening to you describe it. Like, every run, I'm like, oh, God, no.
- [31:50]
B
Yeah, so it's clearly not sustainable. Now, that is just the first interesting thing it does. The other interesting thing it does is you can get shares of companies because there's a bonus at the end of the game, not just for cash on hand, but you know who has the majority of different companies. You can actually, I believe you must make an offer every round to another player, a player that has a share in a company that you also have a share in. And because this is a Ponzi scheme, the money is very hidden. You don't get information about how much money is trading hands with people. So what I'll do, I'll say Company A. I want to buy Company A from you, Joe. So I take Company A, I put it in this wallet and then I put an amount of cash in the wallet. The other players have no idea how much cash I put in the wallet. I hand that to you and you look at it and you have two choices, Only two choices. You can take the cash, give me back my share and give me your share of that company or you can put the same amount of money in the envelope and give it back to me and take my share. So I am basically offering to buy company A for 80 bucks. If you will not sell me company A for 80 bucks, then you have to buy my share of company A for 80 bucks.
- [33:00]
A
Wow.
- [33:01]
B
So, and again, the other players, all they know is, oh, company A traded hands, but we don't know how much money traded hands, how much are they actually evaluating the company at? And of course you might, depending on how desperate you are, I might be able to low ball it because you, I know you need cash to pay out next round because all these debts keep coming due and the game ends the moment someone goes bankrupt. The moment someone cannot pay off their debts. And multiple people, that could happen to multiple people in the same round. They're all eliminated. And whoever's still in the game that has the most money wins.
- [33:35]
A
Wow.
- [33:36]
B
So it actually encourages. You're really watching. You're on that knife edge and that's why you're sweating right now. You'll. You want to stay on that knife edge of bankruptcy because actually the winner of the game is usually the person who was probably going to go bankrupt next round.
- [33:49]
A
Right? Sure, sure. Because everybody's sitting on the edge of the entire game.
- [33:56]
B
And you talk about educational, obviously very educational. It teaches you why Ponzi schemes are a really bad idea.
- [34:04]
A
Well, and it also teaches you, I think, something else, which is we all think that everybody else is doing way better than we are. We think that they're way ahead of us. And as you know, you're on social media all the time. You see these people on social media that make you depressed and you're like, you know what? I remember a tick tock minute we did Kylie, where this guy was explaining how he owned all these cars behind him. And on the show we zoomed in and what casual people watching this video didn't realize was this kid had a valet tag. He didn't own any of those cars. We thought he was doing fantastic. Turns out he's just the valet at the high end restaurant.
- [34:40]
B
He does get to drive all those cars.
- [34:42]
A
He does get to drive them. Ponzi scheme. That is. Oh, man, that sounds like a heck of a lot of fun.
- [34:47]
B
I feel like the group you play QE with Would love this.
- [34:51]
A
Exactly.
- [34:52]
B
Same group, number two. All right, my number two is where I'm going to go. A little left field. This is more philosophical view of economics and finance me, why would I do that? But this is a game that I'm sure Joe, you've heard of and played and probably a lot of your listeners, very popular game, probably not without doubt the most influential board game published in the last 20 years. And it's a game called Dominion. Dominion is a pure card game. It's what's called a deck building game. Not like Magic the Gathering where you're like get a bunch of cards and you build a deck and then you go fight people. You are actually like building your.
- [35:30]
A
No, in that game. Talk about Ponzi scheme. That's the game where you buy cards, then you buy more cards and you buy more cards, you buy more cards and then you go broke.
- [35:38]
B
Well, hopefully you buy more cards, you buy more cards and then you win the game.
- [35:42]
A
Good point.
- [35:42]
B
But yes, you start with. Everybody starts with a deck of cards that has some money in it and some victory points in it. Obviously victory points are how you win, but money is how you buy more cards. So you draw some cards. I've got maybe $4. There's cards out in the middle that I can buy one of them. I could even buy more money. And the reason you'd buy more money is because some money's worth more than $1 a piece and $3 a piece. So since you only have a hand of five cards, drawing five $1 cards is not as good as drawing five $2 cards. Right. So you might want to buy those $2 cards to buy ultimately the more expensive things and ultimately buying victory points. Now this is the interesting thing about the game. Money is the core of the engine. Money is what you need to do things. There's other cards that give you special abilities, maybe let you, you know, there's all sorts of stuff. One of the beauties of Dominion is how many different cards there are and how many different strategies there are. But at the end of the day, you are building up money in your deck of cards so that you can draw hands of cards that have more money in them so that you can buy victory point cards. At the end of the game, there's a few different ways the game might end. Everyone's going to go through their deck and count up how many points and victory point cards they have. Very simple. It's a quick game, it's really like a 20 minute game. But the economic engine of this Game is people don't realize it when they play it for the first time. It might take a couple plays, but you go. Because the first time player does this, the first time player goes, well, I've got enough money to buy a victory card. I could buy more money. But victory cards are how we win the game. So I'm going to buy that. So the thing that matters, you buy it and you put it into your deck, but pretty soon you're drawing hands that have almost no money in it and a bunch of victory point cards. And you go, well, I can't do anything with this. I can't buy anything with this. I have what matters. But the thing that matters doesn't actually let me do an engine and go out and buy more stuff. So you have this tension between the tool money that you need in order to build an engine and build your own economy and buying the thing that matters. But the thing that matters actually gets in the way of getting more of the tool, more of the money, more of the engine, more of the ways to make your deck do interesting, cool things. That is a fascinating, like, metaphor for our lives. Unless we're rich. Right. The ultra wealthy can get away with like the things that they like to do. They can usually sell those things back for the same price they bought them. Right. Like if I'm buying a Lexus, that's going to depreciate overnight. But if I'm buying an Aston Martin, I'm probably going to be able to.
- [38:17]
A
Sell that and I'll be able to appreciate.
- [38:19]
B
To appreciate it. Yeah.
- [38:20]
A
But then what's funny though, but it's not an everyday car. Then that it truly is maybe an investment or I'm going to drive it very, very little.
- [38:26]
B
Yeah.
- [38:27]
A
I never thought of this as an economic game. And it 100 is. You are 100 investing in these cards and you have to decide, when do I invest in more engine and when do I invest in the end and finding that inflection point of it's time to stop building and time to start getting ready for this end game.
- [38:45]
B
Yeah.
- [38:46]
A
Because you know, at the end of a game of Dominion, I'll often go, oh, I waited too long. I waited to. Or I never got. I just felt like. Well, that came every time. I feel like I'm just getting started and the game's over.
- [38:57]
B
Yeah, it does similar things. I mean, this is how we operate in real life too. Like, maybe you're not ready. You're like, it's too early for me to start buying the victory point cards. But random chance. I drew all of my money cards right now and I could buy one of those really good victory point cards right now. The odds of me drawing this hand are so slim. Maybe I should buy it. Right? And it creates in you the same thing as like, it's a Black Friday deal, it's a sale. Maybe I should buy it now because it's cheaper and you, you have to push against that and go, no, I'd rather invest this in other parts of things. And yeah.
- [39:29]
A
Oh, 100. I feel that same. The shopping dopamine hit where I'm like, oh, that's the shiny cool thing. And as long as these three cards are in my deck at the same time, this is in. That's going to be. And of course that condition never freaking happens, right?
- [39:43]
B
Right.
- [39:43]
A
It never happens. But then I feel so, so good buying it. By the way, this game, when it first came out was so revolutionary. I mean, so many games have this. They called it mechanic, have the same deck building piece of it. But at the time, Kylie, I remember reading these rules of my kids and we're trying to learn the game and this idea of taking cards to buy other cards just made my head explode. It was this cool, like, wow.
- [40:09]
B
Just recently it came full circle because my kids, my kids are 9 and 11 and they play tons and tons of games because I've done my job right. But I introduced them to Dominion recently who played Dominion. And I'm explaining how it goes on and my oldest daughter looks at me and goes, dad, is this a deck building game? This is the deck building game. Of course they knew the mechanic because it is the og. Yeah, it was the og.
- [40:34]
A
Yeah. That is phenomenal. And definitely worthy at the number two spot too. I don't know what your number one is, but that's a heck of game. And one that you really don't have to know, Kylie, a lot about games to buy that. I mean, Dominion has so many add ons when you talk about all the cards that if I'm a stacker that doesn't play a lot of games, you could still buy Dominion as this starter game. And it's not going to freak you out because they tell you which cards to start with in the rules. And it can be very simple if you want it to be.
- [41:03]
B
Yeah, this is the one game on this list anyway that, yeah, I would say if you've not played games you could, you can probably handle this one.
- [41:09]
A
All right, here we go. It's that time. Stackers number one. We're on pins. And needles. Kylie.
- [41:15]
B
All right, my number one, I did mention I don't play a lot of big, heavy, long, meaty games, but this.
- [41:22]
A
Is one we're all waiting for the butt.
- [41:24]
B
Well, and this one I haven't played in a number of years, but it was the very first game that came to mind. You know, when you emailed me and said economic finance games, this was the one. I will warn everyone now, this is not for the faint of heart, nor is it inexpensive. This is as close to like a not luxury item, just almost like an indie item that board games get. It's from a very small Dutch company called Splatter and the game is called Food Chain Magnate. This is a game about running a fast food franchise in the 50s. The aesthetic of the game is like fast food rush, 50s, 60s.
- [42:08]
A
The artwork on this is so cool.
- [42:10]
B
The artwork is cool. The components don't look great. No, it does not look. The game costs MSRP is about $120 and there's literally nothing on the back of the box. It's a white. It's empty. The game is not something that screams, you should sell me in retail. And it's a game that, you know, we have it on our shelves and when someone asks about it, it's almost the kind of game where I'm like, if you have to ask what that is, it's not for you.
- [42:38]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [42:39]
B
But if you're down for a minimum two hours, probably close to four hour game about running a fast food franchise. This has it all. You are the CEO and you've got to hire staff. You've got to hire marketing managers, all the way down to busboys, you know, and wait staff managers. And you can only have three people working under you. You. But you can hire staff that can have more people working under them. You can hire executives. And every round of the game, you're making a choice of someone to hire. All those people that you hire have to be paid whether you use them or not. So at the end of each round, you've got to decide if you want to fire people because that's a drain. You know, going back to Ponzi scheme, all these people are a drain on your economy. There's a board out there that's like a little neighborhood. It shows houses. You can put up billboards because not only are you creating a product, deciding what products to create and how, what the quality of the product is, you've got to decide how much to sell the product at. So how much profit you're willing to take. On the product. You've got to do marketing to get people to want your product over the product that the other fast food chains are selling. That marketing needs to be, you know, all things being equal, if you've got customers that both want your product and it's equal price to the competitor, they're going to go to the one that has a store closest to them. So you were literally buying real estate. You like building houses in spots close to your restaurant so that there's more people that might want what you want. And of course, you can invest in marketing. At the end of every round, you invest in marketing. Let's say I'm like, we're really going big on hamburgers. We want people to buy it because we're going to do the gourmet hamburgers and we're going to charge a lot for them, make a lot of profit, but we're going to be that. Well, everyone sees that's where you've invested your marketing at the end of the round. So maybe next round they're like, I'm going to do hamburgers. He's got the demand up for hamburgers. So now I'll just make a cheaper hamburger and people will come to me. And there's just so much going on and the intricacies of this game. And in addition to being, you know, it's a complex game, there's a lot going on, a lot of moving parts, tons of fun. It is unforgiving of mistakes. And this is a hallmark of splatter games. The first decision you make in the game is which one of. I think there's eight or nine at the beginning of the game. Eight or nine different types of people you can hire, that one decision could be the decision that loses you the game.
- [45:11]
C
Wow.
- [45:12]
B
And in fact, one of the designers, I thought this was apocryphal, so I looked it up online before this podcast. No, this is true. One of the designers of this game has gone on record as saying, if you can't lose a game on the first turn, what's the point of having a first turn? So the game, like business, is unforgiving.
- [45:35]
A
Of mistakes, minute by minute, day by day.
- [45:38]
B
Yes, absolutely. But it is so much fun. It's one of those games that, you know, if you play games. And this can happen with computer games, too, I suppose. But, you know, you've ever played a board game and you go to bed that night and you're thinking, I should have tried this. Oh, yeah, what if I do this strategy next time? Oh, I can't wait to try this. It's a game that does that. It's a game that does that.
- [45:59]
A
It reminds me of one of the earliest video games I played called Lemonade Stand back on the Apple Iie, where you're, You're. You read the weather report to see what the weather's going to be like the next day. You invest in sugar and lemons and cups, and then you. You do your marketing and then hope people come out. Yeah, and it's.
- [46:16]
B
Yeah, that sounds a lot like my job.
- [46:18]
A
It does. That's what I was going to say. If this was board game instead of food chain, magnificent board game magnet might be too close to home.
- [46:27]
B
Maybe. I don't know. I'd be. I'd be too focused on the subtle narratives that are being created in that way.
- [46:34]
A
Moving people to the neighborhoods around the store is not something you've tried to do yet.
- [46:39]
B
Well, you know, fascinatingly, you mentioned we won the Innovation in Retail award for all of our TikTok. That was a concerted effort of recognizing, hey, I do a lot of marketing. I think the people in Pittsburgh know who we are. Obviously, you can always do more marketing. But there was a decision I made a couple years ago to say, would our marketing dollars be better spent trying to broaden who's willing to purchase from us and not just focus on the local area?
- [47:05]
A
Who's part of the community?
- [47:06]
B
Who's part of the community? And the decision I made was, look, right now there's a lot of places to buy board games online. Most of them are discounting. You know, you've got your Amazons and people that don't sell at msrp. I can't sell below msrp. It's just not how our business model works. But I said, I bet there are people out there who don't have a local game store or don't have one that sells a lot of board games that they want, and they don't want to buy their games from deep discount places online or Amazon. There's a movement these days of people that want to avoid that. And I said, I bet if I show them what Games Unlimited is like, maybe we're not your friendly local game store, but you can feel vicariously like we are. There is a percentage of people out there who will buy from us at full price, often paying shipping, even though they could get it cheaper somewhere else because they feel like they're part of our community. They like this store. So that was me, you know, not building more houses around Games Unlimited, but, like, showing what Games Unlimited is even though we're not physically close to you showing it to the world and it's worked out.
- [48:14]
A
It 100% has worked out. I feel like I'm a part of the community and like I said earlier, I've only been to Pittsburgh once but I know your game store from my sister's photo. Like, how wild is that?
- [48:24]
B
I love that.
- [48:25]
A
All right. And by the way, we'll link to Games Unlimited where I'm sure you can buy all these except for right now Gates of Loyeng. But that's coming back out, you said fairly soon.
- [48:34]
B
Yeah, I think food chain magnate is also a lot of games often go in and out of print for a while, so I think that one's currently out of print.
- [48:41]
A
But you know Ponzi scheme of Dominion will keep you busy for a long, long time. It will link to Games Unlimited and Kylie's YouTube channel and tick Tock channel. We're going to take a short break. We got some sponsors to make sure we can keep on keeping on. And you don't pay a dime for any of this. So hang out and hear from them stackers. And then Kylie and I are back with his second list. You got friends you're hanging out with during the holidays? What's more fun than a great board game? And I'll tell you what sucks is when you hang out with what you think is going to be a great board game and it's not. So Kylie's going to save us from all that. We'll be right back.
- [49:19]
B
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- [50:35]
B
Bears take on the Eagles at 3pm.
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A
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B
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- [50:50]
A
All right, Kylie, you know, more than any. This person I'm going to describe, somebody walks into games. This probably happens to you all the time, though. People walk into Games Unlimited. They're new to board games. Like, hey, we got a bunch of friends coming over. What do we play? Like, you must see this constantly.
- [51:05]
B
All the time. All the time. That's our bread and butter.
- [51:08]
A
These people gotta be fun for you too, though. Like new people to play with.
- [51:12]
B
Absolutely, absolutely. And the first thing I always do is the first question, what are some games you've played that you've liked? Right. You gotta get a baseline on them. That'll also tell you what they're looking for, right? They might say, well, you know, I haven't played a lot of board games, but I really like viticulture. Like, okay, that's where you're at if you're looking for something like that, you know, or, you know, maybe say, I really only ever played Monopoly. So it's good to get a baseline.
- [51:34]
A
This is my favorite time of year for the same reason, just with friends, because I. In our group, as you can tell Kylie, is I'm kind of our game sommelier. We. We have a. We have a party, everyone. And. And I feel really good about this. Over the years, people have gone, they will say, hey, you're all invited over to dinner at my house. By the way, Joe's bringing the games. And that is code in our friends, if you're going to have a good time, because Joe knows how to pick something that is not going to overwhelm you. That's going to be fun that we're all going like. But the pressure's on you, not me this time. So I put my feet up as we do this number five.
- [52:06]
B
All right, My number five. And it's going to sound weird that it's so low on the list. It's the oldest game, I think, on this list, but it is just you. Every household should have this for gatherings, holidays or otherwise. It's a party game. It has actually gone by many different names over the years, but the current incarnation is called Monikers. This is a game. I'm hesitant to call it Charades because immediately some people are like, oh, I hate charades. I'm not playing it. But it does involve some charades. But what it does differently is, you know, where are charades? You're just Pulling a thing out of hat and trying to get people to guess. You have two teams, but you've sort of. Everyone's had some cards, and they've chosen some cards to put in. So everyone, every card that's in there, somebody knows it's in there. And you're actually going to go through this deck more than once. So everyone will know that this. That these cards are in the deck. So the first round, you can actually say whatever you want. As long as you don't say the name on the card, you can say whatever you want. So if I pull up and you're trying to get your team, you got one minute. Get your team to guess as many cards as possible. I pull up, and it's Mr. Rogers, right? From Pittsburgh, I think Mr. Rogers. And the card will actually even have a description. You don't have to know who Mr. Rogers is. You can just read what it says. He was a friendly hello, my neighbor. And he had you always put this cardigan on in his shoes on his daytime show. And he was a really nice guy. You know, eventually someone's gonna say, Mr. Rogers. Cool. And you go on to the next one. And we've got one minute. Then the other team has a minute with however many cards are left. And you're probably gonna go back and forth a few times to get through the deck. All right, so we've all scored our cards. How many cards we got? Now we shuffle that deck again, and we're gonna go through the same deck. So we know Mr. Rogers is in there. We know Bob Ross, we know Air Force One is in there. Whatever's in there, we've all heard it, but now it's charades, right? So now when I get Mr. Rogers, I can't say anything. I have to act it out. Maybe I'm. You know, it's hard to act out Mr. Rogers if you don't know mister. Like, if it's gonna be anything, how do you act out Mr. Rogers? But since we know he's in there, maybe I mime putting my cardigan on, taking it off, taking my shoes off. Someone's gonna get it. So you go through the whole deck again that way. And then the third and final round, you get to say one word. No acting out. So again, maybe we're all doubly aware that Mr. Rogers is in there, because we've seen it twice. And now I get it, and I go, cardigan, bam, bam. People go, oh, yeah, Mr. Rogers. And then the next one, the next one. And it is such a riot. I played this a year or two ago with my in laws and I gotta say, just fair warning, they are. There are some family versions of monikers. The regular version is. I mean it's not cards against humanity or anything, but there's cards in there that are a bit more risque.
- [54:52]
A
Yeah.
- [54:52]
B
And you could go through and take them out, I suppose, if you wanted to, or just get the family version. But like some of the things I saw my mother in law do, I was just rolling on the four level because I didn't know she had it in her. But people get into these cards and it's just, just, it is a blast. Every time I've ever brought this game out, that's monikers.
- [55:11]
A
This is still my favorite party game. It is with stood the test of time and just the laughs we've had so many times afterwards. There was a year Kylie, where it was Tennessee Williams. And for people that don't know who Tennessee Williams is, he's a playwright, he was a writer. But my brother in law thought it was Boxcar Willie who was a country singer, like a West Virginia country singer. So. So we would say instead of saying Tennessee Williams the playwright, he's describing this country singer. But was more hilarious was my sister in law said Tennessee Williams as he's describing Boxcar Willie. And then so later on, later on we would give the clue guitar, which is wrong when it comes to Tennessee Williams, which is the clue. We'd say Tennessee Williams even though everybody knows it's supposed to be Box Car Willie. It was so good. That was one. Another one was we had, we had Anne Frank and Isaac Asimov in the same deck of cards. And so when it came time to give no clues, all that my spouse Cheryl did was started pointing at the ceiling and we go Anne Frank? No, she would just shake her head no.
- [56:19]
B
Isaac Asimov.
- [56:20]
A
And how you put Isaac Asimov and Anne Frank in the same thing was just amazing. So, so many of those instances. And this has been, I've been playing, as you say, There have been so many versions. This game moniker is really, really fun and oh my goodness, you're gonna laugh your heads off. And it's not as intimidating to your point. People hear charades and they think it's going to be really intimidating. But the fact that it's the limited deck.
- [56:43]
B
Yeah.
- [56:43]
A
I'll just emphasize again what you said, Kylie, that makes this game so much easier than people think it's going to be.
- [56:48]
B
I've literally like drawn cards. I've never heard this word in my life. Maybe it's, you know, some new slang. I don't know what this means, but I can just read the cards hard.
- [56:57]
A
Yeah. So, so much easier.
- [56:58]
B
Number four. Number four. Okay, so we got monikers out of the way. The rest of these four are all fairly new with it. All of them have been out maybe a little more than a year, maybe two years. So there's gonna be some newer stuff. My number four. If you've got someone in your family, if you've got people in your friend group that like to play poker or fancy themselves as poker players, I learned.
- [57:17]
A
About this game from you, my friend. I learned about it from you.
- [57:23]
B
I learned it from watching you. Yes. This is a game called the gang. And the two word summary of this is cooperative poker.
- [57:33]
A
People will be like, wait, what?
- [57:35]
B
Yep, every time I get eyebrows. What do you mean, cooperative poker? Do you know how to play Texas hold and Pro Tip? You don't have to know how to play poker. I taught this to my kids who've never played poker. It's a little bit, you know, they've got some stuff to learn and things, but you can play it with people who don't know poker as long as they're willing to learn. But Texas hold', Em, standard deck of cards. Everyone's dealt two hole cards face down. Those are your private cards, only you can look at them. And then more cards are gonna come out in the center and you make the best poker hand. But instead of betting and folding, there's none of this. In fact, the last thing you wanna do is have a poker face in this game. The last thing you wanna do is try to bluff people. You have to as a group. Let's say there's a five of us playing by the time all the cards come out. And if you're familiar with poker, like after the flop, the river and the turn, after it's all out there, we need to take poker chips. If there's five of us playing, there's poker chips numbered one through five. The person who has the best hand needs to take the five. The person who has the second best hand takes the four and the three and the two, and the worst hand takes the one. So all along the hand, as you've just looking at your hole cards, these are the only two pieces of information you have. Everyone's going to take a chip trying to say how strong their hand is. And maybe someone has like you've got, you're sitting on like, oh, gosh, this is like, you know, a three and a six and they're off suited. This is terrible. I want the one, but Joe took the one. Well, you're not allowed to talk. Obviously you can't say what you have, but I can just take the one from Joe and maybe he's like, no, no, no, you think your hand's bad, I'm going to take it right back. We might just keep stealing it from each other until eventually we say, okay, okay, fine, we'll just leave it like it is. And then, you know, maybe I had that three six. The flop comes out, we got three new cards that come out, and there's a three and a six in there. Oh, crap. Now I got two pair. Suddenly I grabbed that five. That's information, right? Everyone knows I took the one last time and suddenly he's taken the five. Well, he's probably got something to do with those three cards, has made his hand really good. So over the course of the hand, you're trying to figure out who's got the best hand until at the very end, the last part is what counts. Everyone takes the chip and you reveal lowest to highest to see if you did it. It. If you got the cards, if you got the poker chips in the right order, you won the hand. Thematically, it's like you're robbing a casino. And like, you need to get three right before you get three wrong. There's some extra cards you can throw in that make it harder, give you special abilities. But the core of the game is this cooperative poker that I guarantee you, especially if you have family and friends that like poker, or if you do a poker night, take this. It's going to revolutionize people. Just have no idea that you can do cooperative poker. And it's amazing.
- [60:12]
A
It is so amazing. And another thing I love about it is that it's so easy to teach. It is just so incredibly easy to teach, which is great with non gamers. You know, you sit down within three minutes, they, they, they know how to play and they know enough to get started. And they play that first round, which frankly is very low stakes, the first round, and they got it. They're like, oh, oh, this is, this is way simpler. And oh my goodness, the high five. And you do, when you get it right at the end, oh, it's so, so, so fun. And when you mess up, heck, you only had that first alarm bell go off so you can right the ship later on.
- [60:50]
B
Yep, yep. And you get a little bit of that. Like again, if Joe and I keep arguing over who gets the one. And finally I'm like, fine, Joe, you can have it. And then I turn over my absolutely garbage hand and Joe goes, oh, I should have let you have the one.
- [61:04]
A
Or the number of times I've played over the past year since I learned this game from you about this time last year, because I did pick it up just before the holidays. The number of times we're battling, we've the same exact hand.
- [61:16]
B
Yeah.
- [61:19]
A
Which in the case of a tie, you're fine, you're fine. Everybody's great. That is number four, the gang. G A, N, G. Number three.
- [61:27]
B
My number three is this is for situation. You know, you're going to your family, whatever, and maybe there's only one other player that's willing to play a game with you. So you want some good two player game. This is a game that's been out a couple of years now called Boop. This is a game B, cat, B, O, O, P. Like Boop the snoot. You know, booping a cat's nose. Booping a dog's nose. It is a game. It's the cutest game in the world. It's in a little box that when you turn the box over and put a little quilted bedspread on top of the box, that quilted bedspread creates a checkerboard with the seams in it. And you've got little wooden cats and you are placing your cats on the bed. And when you place the cat on the bed, it's going to make any cats next to it because this cat just jumped on the bed. So the momentum makes them boop. They slide one space away from the cat. Okay. Including if a cat's on the edge of the bed and you place the cat next to it and boops, it's going to go off the bed. The player gets it back, but they have fewer cats on the bed. This is an abstract strategy game. Think chess, but not nearly so complicated. More along the lines of a checkers. But the goal of the game is for you to get three of your. You start with kittens. Get three kittens in a row. If you can get three of your kittens in a row, they go play in the box. You literally take them, put them in the box lid, and now you get three full grown cats. Full grown cats are harder to boop because they're bigger. Kittens won't boop them. So you can place one of those cats down and it's not moving unless someone, your opponent, plays another cat right next to it. And so once you start getting cats, you win the game by getting three cats in a row. It's about a 15 minute game. I've explained all the rules right there. We've had this out on our demo bar. It was our best selling game two years ago, I believe. It's just again, super cute. It's one of those games we talk about table presence in a game, how a game looks on the table. That's half the battle. You got someone that doesn't like games. If I went over to my Aunt Sally's house and like, oh, I'm bringing a chess board, then look at, she's gonna look at chess and go, no, but she's going to look at this and go, are those cats jumping on a bed? Sit on down, let me show you how this is done. So it's a fantastic two player game. I love it.
- [63:35]
A
I have never played it. I don't know that I've ever seen it. And you cost me more money, damn it.
- [63:41]
B
And they've done spinoffs too, so it was hugely popular. It's by a designer named Scott Brady who's also done a hugely popular game called Hues and Q's not on this list. But yeah, after the success of Boop, they did Boop, which is the Halloween version. It's got little cats with, you know, they're in jack lanterns and things and then, you know, depending on how seasonally appropriate you want to be. There's also now Boop the halls, which is the cats actually on a three dimensional Christmas tree and they're knocking ornaments off.
- [64:09]
A
Cool, cool, cool. So you can even theme it to the holidays.
- [64:12]
B
You can.
- [64:13]
A
Number two.
- [64:15]
B
My number two game is another cooperative game. This one just came out this year called Ito eto. Ito. Ito Ito. Small box game. Very good and portable, inexpensive. You can take it very easily with you to your holiday party. This is a cooperative game where everyone is handed a card. There's a deck of 1 to 100. One copy of each number. Everybody gets a card. You can play this with up to 10 players. Really hard with 10, but you can play with up to 10 players. So everyone's got a number from one to 100. And now what we're trying to do is place the cards face down. We can't tell the other players what numbers we have, but we need to place all the cards in order from lowest to highest without saying what number it is. This may sound like a game that came out a few years ago called the Mind, but there's a twist here. The way we can give information is we will draw a card that tells us some sort of category or some way that we can categorize or put our number on a scale. So I'm going to come up with a category right now. Maybe the category is comfort food. Now, 100 is the ultimate comfort food and one is. That's barely food. There's no way anyone would consider this comfort food.
- [65:33]
A
So each of us has to name a comfort food.
- [65:37]
B
Has to name a comfort food associated with our number. Right. And of course there's a lot of subjectivity in this, but, you know, more than likely if I say macaroni and cheese and I put it out there and I'm not allowed to place it in the line, I put it on the table and then everyone else talks and goes, ooh, Mac. And that's probably pretty close. That's, that's up there at the top.
- [65:54]
A
That's a 90.
- [65:55]
B
Yeah, that's, that's up there. But Joe, you know, maybe you go mashed potatoes. And then we're like, oh, that's a high one too, you know. But Robin over there, she said, you know, steak tartare, like comfort. I don't know about that. Fried seahorse. Well, it's comfort food for Bobby over there who grew up in Japan, but I don't know. So it's a great game that it's less. Obviously you want to get them all right. And there's lots of high fives when you reveal and get everything right. But it also just creates so much conversation. Another category like I had recently was like stressful things on a scale from stressful to not stressful. And like I said, you know, driving on the DC Beltway during rush hour because I've got a high number. That's a stressful thing. Another person playing is like, oh, that's not stressful at all. Whatever. Put it down at like the four or five. I'm like, what? But he's just like, I'm not stressed out by driving. And we're like, but most people are.
- [66:53]
A
There's a little bit of know your audience too then.
- [66:55]
B
Absolutely.
- [66:55]
A
A little bit of knowing each other. I remember that playing, you know the old game Apples to Apples. Just, just my mother in law was literal about ever. If you played one you thought was funny, she would not pick it because she was so literal. That is Ito. Oh, oh, that's. And it's a little tiny box. Boop. Does not sound like it's in a big box either, Kylie.
- [67:16]
B
No, I mean it's in a. It's, it's bigger than you know you're not going to fit boop in a back pocket, but it's maybe a 10 inch by 10 inch square box.
- [67:21]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [67:22]
B
Not huge.
- [67:24]
A
It's time for it. Everybody ready? Number one. And by the way, before we get your number one on these lists, thank you so much for mentoring our stackers today on games. You, you clearly hate this. You could tell this is the worst.
- [67:37]
B
Job in the world.
- [67:37]
A
A horrible use of time for you. What is your. And by the way, there's a game that I was hoping you were going to talk about which is not on this list. It's the game I'm hoping to play this year.
- [67:51]
B
It's probably this game. So I'm going to test you, Joe, because you said you watch our stuff. What game do you think is number one for playing with family this year?
- [68:03]
A
I'm hoping it's a new game that just came out called Magical Athlete, but it might not be. It probably is the other game which is you're like the. The president's race at a baseball game or the ketchup mustard in whatever race.
- [68:23]
B
Hot Streak mascots. Hot Streak.
- [68:25]
A
Hot Streak.
- [68:27]
B
So actually, so you are my number one is Hot Streak. You're on there. Magical Athlete. Definite honorable mention for that. Both games published by the same company. Both games came out in the last few months. Both games spectacular. I definitely can't go wrong with Magical Athlete, but from our experience at the demo bar, Hot Streak is the one that gets people so excited and so enthusiastic. This is a game about mascot racing. Sounds like a strange subject for a game, but bear with me. The players, you're not actually the mascots. The players are degenerate gamblers who have been kicked out of all legitimate gambling establishments.
- [69:07]
A
Which is everybody at your holiday party, by the way. This is everybody at your holiday party.
- [69:11]
B
So the only thing they're allowed to bet on is mascot racing. And if you've ever watched a mascot race, they're about random wild shenanigans. These are not top fit athletes trying to get across the finish line as fast as possible. They're bumping into each other, they're falling down, they're turning around and going the wrong way. So in Hot Streak, you've got these four mascots, I mean, table presents for days. These are beautiful. About 3 inch tall figures, fully painted and they're on the line. And you're going to have a deck of cards. Well, there's a communal deck of cards with cards like, you know, dangle the fish mascot. This card gets drawn, he moves two Spaces. The hot dog mascot, who's actually a bun banger. He's not a hot dog, but that's the lore of the game. I'll call him a hot dog for now. You know, maybe the card comes up and he turns around, so now he's going backwards. If he draws a move too, he's going to move in the wrong direction. You've got cards that have them change lanes and they might run into each other and knock them over. And if you get. If a mascot falls over, anytime it moves, it only crawls one space. And if it gets stepped on again, it's eliminated, goes to last place. All this wild stuff happens. And so you know what's in the deck. There's some random cards put in the deck. Everyone gets to see what's in the deck and based on that information, they're going to place bets. Do I want to bet on Hurley the hot dog? Do I want to bet on Gobbler? Do I want to do a side bet? There might be a side bet that says some of the mascots are going to get eliminated by falling down or there are going to be two people at the finish line at the same time. You can bet on a side bet, but you also have a little bit, just a tiny bit of control because that deck of cards that we all see, we know what's in there. And each of us is dealt three cards. And after all the bets are in, we get to choose one of the three cards from our hand to add to the deck. And secret information, little secret information, maybe. I see a bunch of people betting on Dangle and I put my minus two or fall down for Dangle in there, which could backfire because maybe Dangle turns around and now a minus two is actually moving them towards the finish line. This is a game that when we demo this in the store, everyone in the store is like, what is going on? Come over to the demo bar. And it helps if you call it really good. You go, oh, Dangle's moving up too. And then he's sliding in the other lane. And that's actually. I mean, I'm good at this, but I've seen kids call this amazingly, it's just flip the cards and do what they said and somebody moves the pieces and everyone's just yelling, no, Dangle, what are you doing? You gotta turn around and get back over there. And it's just so much fun. It is the best selling game in the history of Games Unlimited.
- [71:38]
A
This sounds like, by the way, Kylie, all ages, like, if I'VE got a group of adults, it's fabulous. If I've got kids, it's fabulous.
- [71:46]
B
And mixed. Mixed is all. It's for all ages. It's so much fun. It is a game that we see people. It's not a matter of are people gonna play it at the demo bar and buy it. It's a matter of how many copies they're gonna buy. Because literally people will go, I'm getting three of these because I need one. And this is for this person and this is a gift for that person. It's just that good. You will not have more fun at your holiday parties this year than you will playing Hot Streak, guaranteed.
- [72:12]
A
I saw this is how serious you are about this game, is that you were so worried about this game running out that in your videos you've got boxes and boxes and I fear you will still run out, Kylie.
- [72:25]
B
I am afraid. Listen, time of recording. I've got a lot of copies of this game. By the time this airs, I'm hoping it's that good. It is. Literally, it's been out since July. We have sold one and a half times more copies of this game since July than our best selling game all of last year.
- [72:45]
A
Unbelievable.
- [72:47]
B
It's incredible. It's so much fun. And the same company does do Magical Athlete, which you mentioned, which is another race game. And it's wacky and it's crazy, but I think for ease of getting people into Hot Streak's the way to go.
- [72:58]
A
Yeah, Magical Athlete looks like my kind of game. Just 100% my kind of weird game. But damn it, Hot Streak.
- [73:06]
B
Oh, Lord. As we've told people who ask us, you know, we're currently out of Magical Athlete. Hopefully we'll have more for the holidays. But people like, which one should I get? We're like, you got to get both.
- [73:17]
A
You got to get both. Well, and they are different. I mean, they truly are different games. Wow. And again, if only there were a place where they cared about community where people could buy this game. If only that place existed. Kylie, it'd be so cool. Maybe in Pittsburgh.
- [73:34]
B
It does. It exists in Pittsburgh Games Unlimited, but we also have E Commerce and we ship games out. So if you can't find any of these games at your friendly local game store, we're happy to help you out.
- [73:44]
A
Well, thank you so much for mentoring us again. And by the way, we will have links to all of these games so that you can look them up on BoardGamegeek, which we enjoy looking at. People in the gaming industry are kind of Divided on this big site, Board Game Geek. What is your take on this huge site?
- [74:03]
B
I mean, BoardGamegeek is an invaluable resource. I am on BoardGamegeek every day. You know, when I'm making listings for games, we get in 12 to 20 new games a week. You know, when I'm making listings, I go to BoardGameGeek. I copy the publisher's description from there. The player counts all that I get images. It's invaluable. There's obviously a community there.
- [74:24]
A
Yeah.
- [74:24]
B
So I think Board Game Geek is great.
- [74:27]
A
The only thing I worry about with new people, if you're new into board games, do not go buy games on the top 10 list because those games are much closer to your food chain magnet game where you know you've got some pretty heavy duty gamers on there that are going to. You might be disappointed if you go by the. Or maybe you'll love it.
- [74:44]
B
I don't know. You might.
- [74:45]
A
Yeah.
- [74:45]
B
Board Game Geek definitely skews as far as it's basically a wiki. Right. It's a community effort. The people who are going to spend their time online talking about board games tend to be more hardcore. So they're the ones rating games.
- [75:00]
A
Which is why I prefer Kylie to watch your videos. Just watch Kylie on YouTube or on TikTok and, and his wonderful team because you actually take people through the game and as you see it, I mean, that's how I knew I'd like the gang was I saw you talk about the gang and how you talked about it. I'm like, I know so many people that would love this game. And so I went and bought it. Damn it, Kylie, you're 100% right.
- [75:23]
B
That's what I like to hear.
- [75:25]
A
Well, thank you so much for mentoring us and happy holidays to you and yours, my friend.
- [75:29]
B
Yeah, same to you, Joe.
- [75:32]
A
Mr. Doug, it's all yours. Now take it away.
- [75:34]
C
So what's stacked up on our to do list for today? Well, first, take some advice from Kylie. Not only are money board games fun, but you can also maybe learn a little about money and in the case of qe, writing blank checks, which is always fun. Second, how about more advice from Kylie? Life's too short to play bad games with family and friends around the holidays. Do a little homework and it'll pay huge dividends. Just like a great stock, but one that everyone will talk about for holidays to come. But the big lesson, don't introduce Joe's mom to your cool board game friends. Kylie's been roped into a rummy game. And we all know that guy's gonna lose his shirt to those ladies if we're not careful. He's never coming back. Thanks to Kylie Primus from Games Unlimited for sharing his top five lists with us today. To make it easy, we've linked to the titles on sale at Kylie's store in our show notes and@stackingbenjamins.com or just go visit Kylie in Pittsburgh, tell him you're a Stacker and that mom sent you. This show is the property of SB Podcasts, LLC, Copyright 2025, and is created by Joe Saul Sehive. Joe gets help from a few of our neighborhood friends. You'll find out about our awesome team@stackingbenjamins.com along with the show notes and how you can find find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello.
- [77:06]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [77:06]
C
And before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don't take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor, Doug, and we'll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show.
- [77:33]
A
Bam. Drop the mic.